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Tuesday, June 24, 2008
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's Only About Winning
by David Limbaugh
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The Washington Post reports that Sen. Barack Obama is aggressively trying to reintroduce himself to voters, echoing the spin of Obama's advisers that not everyone knows him yet. In reality, Obama's major campaign challenge will not be to reveal, but to conceal his true identity.

Obama is not trying to introduce himself to unreached voters, but is engaged in damage control with many he's already reached -- and insulted and disillusioned.

As long as he was soaring above the fray with the lofty rhetoric of hope, change and unity, Obama could masquerade as a quasi-messiah figure. But once forced into the nitty-gritty of contested issues and debates, his false visage began to crack. Those cracks expanded into campaign-threatening fissures when voters learned about Obama's sordid associations and left-wing elitist snobbery toward small-town America.

The Post says that in his reintroduction, Obama has "offered a clear road map for the kind of candidate he is likely to become …: an ambitious gamer of the electoral map, a ruthless fundraiser and a scrupulous manager of his own biography in the face of persistent concerns about how he is perceived."

What the Post left out is that Obama has also shown himself to be an unscrupulous master of the politics of calculation and expedience. Whether on public finance, NAFTA, Iran, Iraq, Jerusalem, special interests, Cuba, illegal immigration or the decriminalization of marijuana, Obama has demonstrated a propensity for flip-flopping that could embarrass the grandmaster himself, Sen. John Kerry.

But here's what's scary: For all of Kerry's reputed smoothness and Eastern intellect, he often tied himself in knots trying to reconcile his absurdly opposing positions. Obama can flip and flop with unmatched alacrity and facility and with the absence of self-consciousness and accountability of an accomplished sociopath. This guy doesn't even acknowledge he's changing positions; he does it without breaking a sweat and never looks back.

Of course, Obama benefits enormously from a favorable press, one that, in furtherance of his electoral cause, will tolerate almost any degree of preposterousness from him.

In addressing Obama's stunning position shift on public financing, the Post gropes for the best possible spin. The flip, says the Post, reveals Obama's "determination to press his financial advantage, even at the cost of handing his Republican opponent the opportunity to raise questions about the sincerity of his rhetoric on reform."

We are to accept Obama's change on public finance as a positive because, according to the Obama supporters the Post favorably quotes, it dispels the myth that Obama is naive and proves he is tough enough to take heat for his change.

I get it. We should be grateful for Obama's willingness to reverse himself on the issue of money and corruption in politics, which he led us to believe involved a nonnegotiable core principle, because it shows he's got courage -- courage enough to stare down the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Unbelievable.

But if pressed, even the slick Obama will have trouble squaring his new stance with his September 2007 statement that he would agree to public financing if his GOP opponent would and his February 2008 statement to Tim Russert that he would sit down with Sen. McCain and try to agree to a system fair for both sides.

But his shift on public finance is hardly shocking when taken in the context of his many other major (and some minor) flip-flops. I just ask you to consider the common thread underlying all of these turnarounds (though just a partial list): a) his condemnation of union contributions to the Clinton and Edwards campaigns as "special interest money" but his eager acceptance of such money for himself as coming from representatives of the "working people"; b) his flip on ending (January 2004) then retaining (August 2007) the Cuba embargo; c) his March 2004 statement that opposed a crackdown on businesses hiring illegal immigrants, compared with his Jan. 31, 2008, debate statement endorsing such a crackdown; d) his advocating the decriminalization of marijuana in January 2004 versus his Oct. 30, 2007, position opposing its decriminalization; e) his jaw-dropping same-day flip on having Jerusalem remain the undivided capital of Israel; f) his shameless reversal on NAFTA; g) his nearly immediate backtracking on whether Iran poses a serious threat to America; h) his progressive position shifts on Iraq -- as documented by Peter Wehner and Michael Barone -- from "don't go in, stay in, and get out"; i) and his vigorous defense then abandonment of both his pastor and his church.

The common thread, in a word, is expedience. It is not toughness; it is not savvy; it is not gravitas; and by all means, it is not admirable.

Barack Obama is every bit as politically calculating as Bill Clinton but twice as smooth. And if that doesn't jolt you, you're sleeping.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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No To Obama (continued)
Criminals who happen to be Black or some other color or ethnicity, are not being charged with their crimes due to race, color or ethnicity, but for THE CRIMES THEY COMMIT. The Blacks that many Americans are sick of, including some blacks who are not part of the "Victimization" mentality, are the one's who excuse all their irresponsible behaviors by "blaming the evil white people", and who truly do not want Equal Rights, They believe that they are Entitled To Special Rights and Privileges. Affirmative Action, Quotas, and all the rest of that garbage has done much more harm to blacks than good. It has deprived deserving and intelligent blacks from being able to truly compete on an even playing field. Too many people wound up in Universities and in Important positions of power who did not have the requisite intelligence, training, or other abilities, and qualifications, and this deprived people who did possess these qualities. Some were white, some were black. The nations, though, is the Big Loser. We have incompetent people running things that do not have a clue. Now, we have a Quota Harvard Graduate in Hussein Obama, posing as The Great Communicator. Just because he can read a teleprompter and say whatever is on the screen, and has a Harvard Law Degree, which he did not qualify to even attend the school, except for Quotas. No, we do not need a guy of Mediocre intelligence, and a brain full of Marxist Ideology becoming president. This is not the office of Mayor of Birmingham, Alabama or someother mismanaged urban area such as this. This is for the Office of President. We cannot give this guy a free ride just because We want to Be Politically Correct, or Fear of being called a Racist just because we do not like him or his policies which include some More Social Welfare Spending, and other Socialist Ideas that have bankrupted us already.

No To Socialism, No To Obama
Why is it that you liberals cannot get it. You are your own worst enemies, and when you make excuses of racism, etc. everytime something of substance comes up concerning people of color. Take the O.J. Simpson trial. The Black Race Hustlers made that a Racial Thing. O.J. was not being tried because he was Black. He was on trial for a brutal murder of two people who happened to be white. What makes some whites angry about this sort of thing, is how they had a known murderer who got by with murder, and most blacks who also knew he was a murderer, but did not care, and were celebrating that this Murderer walked. Most Americans are sick and tired of blacks and others who Play The Race Card every time that they are being held accountable for their actions. Criminals who happen to be Black or some other color or ethnicity, are not being charged with their crimes due to race, color or ethnicity, but for THE CRIMES THEY COMMIT. The Blacks that many Americans are sick of, including some blacks who are not part of the "Victimization" mentality, are the one's who excuse all their irresponsible behaviors by "blaming the evil white people", and who truly do not want Equal Rights, They believe that they are Entitled To Special Rights and Privileges. Affirmative Action, Quotas, and all the rest of that garbage has done much more harm to blacks than good. It has deprived deserving and intelligent blacks from being able to truly compete on an even playing field. Too many people wound up in Universities and in Important positions of power who did not have the requisite intelligence, training, or other abilities, and qualifications, and this deprived people who did possess these qualities.

OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST
OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST WITH MARXIST BEGINNINGS,MIDDLE AND PRESENT. HE IS NOT FIT TO BE PRESIDENT, EVEN IF HE WERE NOT A SOCIALIST. HE IS NOT VERY INTELLIGENT AND IS A PRODUCT OF QUOTAS AS IS HIS RACE-HUSTLING WIFE, MICHELLE, WHO HAS ALREADY STATED HER HATRED FOR THIS COUNTRY. MICHELLE AND OBAMA SAT IN THE GOOD REVEREND WRIGHT'S CHURCH FOR TWENT YEARS SAYING "AMEN BROTHER" EVERY TIME THAT REVEREND WRIGHT WENT INTO ONE OF HIS QUASI-CHRISTIAN MARXIST DIALOGUES. STAY ON THIS AS AN ATTACK ON OBAMA'S CHARACTER AND BELIEFS. BECAUSE THIS IS WHO HE REALLY IS. HE IS DANGEROUS DUE TO HIS LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND ABILITIES. HE IS MORE DANGEROUS BECAUSE OF HIS DISTORTED BELIEF SYSTEM. JEROME ENNIS, MAed IN TUSCALOOSA, ALABAMA

More "just" distribution of income
Quote from a post:
"...we will choose to have a more just and equal distribution of income - not redistribution, mind you, but distribution from the get go."

Quite correct. Eventually, rather than just take it away after we've made it, the gov will decide how much each of us deserves in the first place.
That's what you want?
Sounds like a real incentive for innovation and yankee ingenuity.

Newsflash: that's been tried already. It was a miserable failure.

Another newsflash: That won't keep people from wanting to try it again. That political urge will ALWAYS be present in any society, contrary to those ignorant among us who think otherwise (communism doesn't exist anymore because china is making money, and the wall came down).


Surrender
I will vote for John McCain, although I know that the deck is stacked against him and his campaign is inept. Obama will win and destroy the country. The misfits will vote for Bob Barr and sit in their holes admiring their principles. Four years from now they will again object to the Republican candidate and help to re-elect Obama.

I surrender. I just don't have the energy to fight. Instead I will play the game, work the system, and try to collect a few crumbs. But I will not work for the racist plantation master.

OBAMBI
Obama is NOT QUALIFIED to protect this country.

He is an American hating racist. I have never seen a person in politics speak so much about race, draw so many lines of distinctions about race and then say..."it is the Republicans who are bringing up race...".

The person who is always discussing race is the person with the problem with race. Obama is very far from MLK.

Obama is a hollow construct by Soros... the other American hating lib.

McCain isn't perfect, but I do not doubt his love for America and his willingness to defend our great country. McCain never brings up race...he never wears his religion on his sleeve...he simply talks about what he is going to do, how he would defend America and his affection for America.

McCain is a far cry from "Obambi"




He's Definitely an Operator
Obama seems to have roughly half the sheeple drinking the kool aid. For sure he is a smooth operator who is constantly on the lookout and keenly in tune with "what's good for Barak is good".

Of course the left leaning press doesn't hurt much in Obama's grand deception. He can do no wrong in their eyes. It seems no matter what he does the press is still humping his leg.

If as a country, we are deceived enough to elect this marxist con man, we deserve everything we get and none of it will be pretty.

One more idiot conservative speaking!
Yes, one more conservative idiot only proving how weak and whinny the Republican party has become! Where in the hell were they as not this Obama fellow may become the next President?

Yes, Ronald Reagan leaves things in the hands of George Bush the father, but this same Republicans made sure that Clinton got into to Oval Office, whom they still keep skinning.

Oh yes! Ron Paul is no good, but McCain, the one that divorced his wife and married the present chick only a month after is their man.

By the way
To those who ask how roads would exist without the state involved, I would point to my driveway's end. The roads there are paid through community fees.

Roads could be paid by a variety of means:

1. Community organizations and associations
2. Private toll roads
3. free roads paid for by those with an interest in others traveling, such as the auto industry, chambers of commerce, or resort towns, who want people to drive and are willing to pay to let them get somewhere
4. Other groups with interest in specific roads, such as the roads leading to a sports arena paid for by the team owners or to a casino paid for by that casino

I am sure other options will arise if the government gets out. If there is a demand for a road, I am sure someone will step in to meet that demand.

Well, I am sure many will scoff, but people scoff at all ideas when you say the government should get out, so I am used to it.

tughes
Are you mad? The only thing I think the government should do domestically is precisely what you say it wouldn't, provide police protection.

Her,e simplifying it for you:

In my view, as a conservative, the state should provide an army to protect against foreign aggression, and police to protect citizens from physical harm and theft, either by force or fraud. They should provide criminal courts and jails to handle criminals. They should also provide civil courts to settle contractual disputes and the few torts which arise which are not covered by contractual agreements.

There may also be some cases of general threat where the government can act, such as natural disasters or serious health threats to the entire community, but those are unusual and arguable.

So, I don't want the government involved in roads or banks, but the judiciary is a proper government function.

I don't know what you think conservatism is, but your view is definitely odd.

(Note, some conservatives may differ with me on roads, and a few may think bank regulation is good, but I would argue against both, the banks more than the roads. At least roads don't wreck the economy when the government runs them.)

heater29
I have to agree with you that Obama's platform is absolutely content free, or as close as possible without drawing attention tot he fact.

Half of it is full-page quotes form Obama, and of the remainder, half is a set of blurbs showing why he is "qualified" to talk on a given subject.

I tis both the most arrogant and apologetic work I have seen. It seems to be saying both "love m and admire my wisdom" and "I'm not an inexperienced nobody, right?"

Well, word limits keep me from writing all I think.You can see what I wrote back in February after reading through the whole thing:

http://andrews.blogtownhall.com/2008/03/14/so,_what_is_chan ge.thtml

It is rather detailed, but not too tedious. (Or so I hope.)

WHAT#2
This obama guy is POS! I was so worked up when I posted the first post I didnt even check it for errors. So I corrected it and hope it is clear how I feel and what I ment.

The Other thing is I am all ready wornout with the whole obama thing and the self righteous MSM selling out my county!

THEIR IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT THIS WORTHLESS NO RECORD HAVING, ON THE JOB TRAING LOOKING FOR, RACE BATTER, COMMIE LOVING, CHI LOVING, LENNIN LOVING, HUGO LOVING, GLOBAL WARMING BELIVING, SELF WORSHIPING, SELF ANNOITED, POWER HUNGRY, POWER GRABING, NO MORALS HAVIEING, NO VALUES HAVEING, SPOON FEEDING TOO THE MASSES, SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF LOVING, AMERICAN HEATING, WANA BE KING; WITHOUT A CROWN, ANTI-FREEDOM LOVING, BABY KILLER (VOTEING RECORD FOR ABORITION ONLY THING CONSISTANT)"FETUS" is A BABY ESP THOSE IN THE 3RD TRI-MESTER...... These things are the TRUTH ABOUT HIM and I just can not believe that 55%+ of AMERICA will VOTE FOR HIM!! This election WILL be a RECORD SETTER FOR ALL HISTORY OF AMERICA for a LONG TIME. And having said this I have not gotten into the race card and the race play other than saying he is a "race batter" which HE IS and the MSM is his AGENT giving him a FREE PASS. The country I know and LOVE will see what I have said is the TRUTH and they won't be the ones called for POLLING either...

I was in a UNION LOVING SHOP. When I petitioned the NLRB to remove the UNION. I was HARRESED, THREATENED,etc, etc. But when the VOTE came not ONE UNION LOVING EMPLOYEE VOTED TO KEEP THE UNION; not even the steward!!! After words each one of them THANKED me for doing this and said they just did not have the BALL* to take that first steep because they were affarid of what would happen to them esp. if the VOTE went in favor of the UNION. That was in 2000 and all of them are still grateful... This is the same thing that is going to happen in NOVEMBER!!!

heater29 12:47 AM EST
"I have read his platform (BHO) and it is about as thin as he is."

So how do you explain that, for example, Obama's health care plans consist of a summary, a detailed PDF document, a FAQ, a speech, and a video, totaling 14,800 words (not including the video) and McCain's is about 4 pages of text, totaling 1,380 words? Sure, word count isn't a great measure of content, but a ratio of 11:1 is going to indicate some disparity in detail and depth.

Have you really read the PDFs and FAQ files for each item in the issues section of Obama's web site? I have.

WHAT?
THEIR IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT THIS WORTHLESS NO RECORD HAVING, ON THE JOB TRAING LOOKING FOR, RACE BATTER, COMMIE LOVING,CHI LOVING, LENNIN LOVING, HUGO LOVING, GLOBAL WARMING BELIVING, SELF WORSHIPING, SELF ANNOITED, POWER HUNGRY, POWER GRABING, NO MORALS, NO VALUES HAVEING, SPOON FEEDING TO THE MASSES, SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF LOVING, AMERICAN HEATING, WANA BE KING WITHOUT A CROWN, ANTI-FREEDOM LOVING, BABY KILLER (VOTE RECORD FOR ABORITION ONLY THING CONSISTANT)"FETUS" is A BABY ESP THOSE IN THE 3RD TRI-MESTER IS A BABY..... These thigs are the TRUTH ABOUT HIM and I just can not belive that 55% of AMERICA will VOTE FOR HIM!! This election WILL be a RECORD SETTER FOR THE ALL HISTORY OF for a LONG TIME. And having said this I have not got into the race card and the race play other the saying he is a "race batter" which HE IS and the MSM is his AGENT while giving him a FREE PASS. The country I know and LOVE will see what I have said is the truth and they wont be the ones called for POLLING either...

I was in a UNION LOVING SHOP. When I petitioned the NLRB to remove the UNION. I was HARRESED, THREATENED,etc, etc. But when the VOTE came not ONE UNION LOVING EMPLOYEE VOTED TO KEEP THE UNION; not even the steward!!! After words each one of them THANKED for doing this and said they just did not have the COURAGE to take that first steep because they were affaris of what would happen them esp if the VOTE went in favor of the UNION. That was in 2000 and all of them are still greatfull... This is the same thing that is going to happen in NOVEMBER!!!

HankRearden 9:11 PM EST
"The Founding Fathers ... these men were not just prescient, they were profits."

That's really great. Thanks, Hank.

And I really love all this calling Obama a communist, marxist, socialist. Really a strong message that will resonate with that part of the voting public living in the Fifties. If only you could get Joe McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover to denounce him on live television.

Keep calling his platform shallow and vapid, too. That'll contrast nicely with the depth and detail that it actually has (and which none of you has even tried to read).

PL
You know...just a question.

Do you vote for the communist party here? You are clearly anti-American economy and would rather us burn in poverty than have freedom. Were you born in America? It seems you have such a minute understanding of economics that you either weren't educated in a capitalist country or deliberately want us to fail.

Could you just answer those?

PL haha!!!
Please...please name one other type of government that has produced a country more prosperous than the United States of America! please, I dare you...as it is not possible, good luck. We have more freedom and higher standards of living than any other civilization in the history of the world. Why don't you just go live in a place such as you describe? Maybe ME? Perhaps Russia will start another communist country.

Democrat Pride
As a former Republican I am proud to say I do not support and will not vote for McCain because he is truly a liberal and pretty much
another Democrat.
But....
The fact that the Democrat Party is actively backing a candidate with the qualifications of Obama is down right hilarious.
There should be enough lemmings and Dems with BDS to elect Obama and too few conservatives frightened enough to vote for McCain for him to win the presidency.
With the disastrous results to follow America will learn from and never forget the damage. The Democrats should be renamed and forever known as Obamites!

Mencken was right, Aesop was right
Democracy is a form of government in which men are allowed to vote for what they want, and they deserve to get it, good and hard. The frogs are about to elect the beautiful stork as their new king.

Dumbing Down America
**McCain is basically consistent but changes for the right reasons and especially when the public demands its voice be heard …..Obama is running on a message of CHANGE, because that’s exactly what he does, Changes his mind every single day, volleying attack after attack against McCain without offering any substance of his own…

And now what should be termed merely Pathetic, is now bordering on Criminal for the win at any cost Obama Propaganda by Main Stream Media. There is no Reporting just Supporting BHO, and its Criminal that the time when we need it most, a presidential election , the people who give us our daily factfind, abandon objectivity for subjectivity.

Obama disgorges reversal after reversal, gaffe after gaffe; AND NO MENTION OF IT. The Main Stream Media is clearly at war with the truth and sadly with the American people.

Proud Lib
First off, nobody asked for your advice.
Secondly, your understanding of individual freedom is shockingly stupid. It is clear that at least one and perhaps more generations of Americans have no idea what it is that made this country great. I know no longer have any interest in explaining it to people like you. You don't care what I say.

Proud liberal
United States Constitution: Article IV. Section 4, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government; and on Application of the Legislature, or the Executive(when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic violence.

Trughes
My advice to conservatives is "be careful what you wish for." As you say, the society that conservatives pine for would swiftly sink into the chaos of every man, woman and child for themselves.

I once read a piece on Western Movies as morality plays.

At the beginning we have an individual, a cattleman, who settles the territory and does exactly as he wants to do and thinks he owns the whole stinking place.

Then the sheep herders come with their families, or maybe the farmers with their families. They start buiding a town with a school and church and start using the individualists' land for farming or sheep.

So, the individualist hires a bunch of gunslingers to run the sheep herders and farmers off. But the sheep herders and farmers turn the tables and hire their own gunslinger, who is even faster than the individualist's gunslingers.

In a showdown the sheep herder's gunslinger, also an individualist, kills the cattleman's ace gunslinger. And as the surviving gunslinger looks down at the dead one he turns his eyes to the farmers and he sees that old familiar look in their eyes. He knows that it's time to move on again.

trughes
You do not understand conservatism. Have you ever read the constitution? Have you ever read the declaration? Just asking.

CK
You are totally confused. We have to go back to basic human nature. People are animals, but we are social animals. We have an innate disposition to form groups, to cooperate and work together with our group. We also have an innate disposition to go to war with people who are not in our group.

A republic is not and was not an entitlement. In part it was accidental, but it was not decreed by God nor man. It merely happened in the way it happened in the time and place it happened. It has no entitlement claim to our reverence. It has no entitlement claim to remain unchanged into perpetuity. It was and is not inevitable nor inviolable.

If you want to be a slave to this abstraction that is entirely your business, but you are not entitled to everyone thinking in the same way you do.

If you are so enamored of freedom you will support the freedom of everyone to marry anyone else who will consent to marry them.

Anne
You know the answer to your question.

Pathetic Lib: Are you on drugs? Or are

you just a raging buffoon?



Thank you, Proud Libral.
I don't know if you caught the time some con tried to tell me I was a commie and he wrote, "I don't want to hear about roads, the banking, and judicial systems. Those things are part of the common good."

Oh, I asked him, what part of that is not socialist? I ask these guys if they want to pack heat every time they go to buy groceries, because under strict individualism, there would be no law to enforce either the transaction or the legality of exchange. Great system they would have.


PL
I think you don't understand the role of a republic. Not at all actually.

Here is a hint of a quote.

The 4 principal reasons why a federal government was formed: "(1) The common defense (national security); (2) the preservation of public peace, as well against internal convulsions as external attacks; (3) the regulation of commerce with other nations and between states; (4) the superintendent of our intercourse, political and commercial, with foreign countries (foreign affairs)." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper No.23, 1787

Yes there are a few things needed from government, what you propose is slavery to it. If what you proposed happened, the french revolution would happen all over again only here and possibly bloodier(if its even possible to do so). People want freedom. Not you taking all their freedom away.

Proud Lib
You're either completely stupid or a total fraud.

PL
You still fail to acknowledge who would step up? I certainly wouldn't risk anything if I only got to make say 40k more. I know there is no reason to do so. The government(in your world) would give me everything already. So there is no reason. If I want to start a business I will most to Hong Kong or Ireland. Any business person would do the same.

Actors would stop working in the US and we wouldn't be producing movies any more. Bands wouldn't be doing tours here because they would just do them in europe.

This is incredibly insane that you are actually saying this.

I want you to research the living conditions in USSR at the height of their power. Come back and let us know what you find. Because the average person was below our poverty line! haha

Its people like you that should be published to prove our conservative points! lol

Proud Liberal
The Founding Fathers understood a great deal more than you ever will. If you ever took the time to actually read the declaration or the constitution you might by complete accident realize that these men were not just prescient, they were profits. Perhaps they did not particularly foresee the specific technological advances which have been made, but they understood basic human nature, which you obviously do not.
I tire of dolts like yourself lecturing the rest of us as to how the world is, when the history of the world has proven on multiple occasions that socialism does not work. But you don't care, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Limbaugh is 100% correct. What a shocker.

Anne
Not knowing is not important. The label "Marxism" or "liberalism" is not important. Americans (except for a sliver of conservatives) know that we live in a collective society, each of us intimately connected to the other. We Americans have chosen to have a society that stringently regulates business because we know that we can't trust anyone whose bottom line in individual profit; we have chosen to have society security; we have chosen to have medicare and medicaid and we will choose, sooner or later, to have universal health care, for that is where the morals of us Americans are; and we will choose to have a more just and equal distribution of income - not redistribution, mind you, but distribution from the get go. You will, Anne, leave a much better world to your great grand children than you now embrace, yourself.

Barack Hussein Obama
I know enough,BHO is the "scum of the earth"

Anne.
Please untie the straps of the straight jacket around your mind. There. Whew. Thanks a lot.

The Founding Fathers, Anne, never conceived that the United States would be anything but an agricultural society, from coast to coast. They were any more prescient than anyone else and couldn't foresee, and didn't foresee, the technology and the capitalism which would transform an agricultural country of individuals into a collectivist society. Are you sure you aren't 250 years old?

Take sanitation, again. I don't know the specifics, but I imagine that if I wanted, as an individual with my individual freedom and taking responsibility for my life, decided that I wanted to store all my garbage for the rest of my life in my back yard, that my individualism would be squelched in a hurry. I bet there are city or county laws which prevent me from being an individualistand insist that I am part of a collective that WILL dispose of my garbage in a governmentally decided way.

Get used to it, Anne. You are part of a collective. Though, as I have admitted, through no fault of your own.

Reason: You actually have a point..

The real bottom line is not whether or not we're going to put a dumbocrap or a Republican in the White House...

It's much, much, much more important than that.

This election, we're deciding whether or not we're going to let our country become a Marxist state or not..

B. Marxist Obama is, by his own verbiage and platform, going to take us straight into the throws of Marxism. Might be one step at a time, little by little, but there is NO QUESTION that that's where we're headed should be be elected....

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

To read the entire article on The American Thinker (June 21, 2008), go to http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/why_do_we_call_them _democrats.html



Pathetic Lib...
dictionary.com
No results found for ciaou.
Did you mean CIAU (in dictionary) or CIAO (in encyclopedia)?

So there! :-)
==============================================
Lying about B. Marxist Obama? How?

And is "sophistry" the Reader's Digest word of the week, so you have to use it ten times?


Actually, you DIDN'T demonstrate anything! In fact, you're not even close.

Of course, there are some things that requires the Fed. Govt. to deal with, such as National Security, which is THE PIRMARY job of the Fed. Govt. But beyond that, not too much.

"The claim that the "individual know better how to spend his money than the government" is patently false. It is a LIE."

No lie! It's never worked. Never!

"Obama will be tarred with being a Marxist. What conservatives don't get is that through no fault of their own they have been born into a collective."

No, again, not even close. The FOUNDING FATHERS... remember them... did NOT intend for the United States of American to be a "collectivist" society.

"The United States is a collective and collectives have problems that need to be solved collectively."

If that's what you think, you really have no clue what a "collectivist society" is.

"Charles mentioned sanitation as an area that they government could make better decisions about spending his money. I don't know. I pay a private company to collect my garbage but I think they dump it in a county land fill. The point is that as a collective garbage collection is a problem that needs to be solved collectively. Whether Obama is a Marxist or not we have a problem with garbage in this country and around the world."

I cannot, in my wildest imagination believe that you actually posted that last sentence.

Obama and Saul Alinsky -- KEY
To understand Obama, you must understand Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". READ IT!!!

Obama’s campaign information talks about how he worked as a “community activist”. This does not mean that he worked for the Boys and Girls Clubs, tutored underprivileged kids, or taught in inner city schools. No, Senator Obama was trained by the Industrial Areas Foundation, a radical group founded by Saul Alinsky. He worked for the Gamaliel Foundation, where he used the Alinsky method. This foundation has as its' number one objective promoting immigrants rights -- see the website -- http://www.gamaliel.org/default.htm

A little background on Alinsky --in books like “Rules for Radicals”, he preached that the end justifies the means, and that radicals should not reveal their true beliefs when they are organizing. Once in power, of course, they can implement the social justice agenda that the rest of us are just a little to stupid to understand. In our area, IAF has aligned itself with a radical church group and is promoting policies which encourage the influx of illegal immigrants to our town. They are doing very well, I’m afraid. I’m surprised that no one has questioned Senator Obama about his association with IAF, the Gamaliel Foundation, and his belief in Alinsky's ideas. See the attached article.

http://catholiccitizens.org/press/contentview.asp?c=45262


LARRY KNOWS HIM!
WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT BARACK OBAMA??????? “To be honest with you, its not so much whether you believe me or not, as much as you hear me.”

-Larry Sinclair at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. June 18, 2008

Larry’s words, my post! http://www.larrysinclair.org/press.html


Anne
ciaou is plural. So there.

The point I'm making is that conservatives are lying about Obama and will continue to lie about Obama. Even now there is an attack book in the works at Regenery on Obama, which will be full of sophistry, which I prefer to call by its right name which is "lie."

I demonstrated to Charles that he really believes that government can spend his money better than him in certain areas. The claim that the "individual know better how to spend his money than the government" is patently false. It is a LIE.

Obama will be tarred with being a Marxist. What conservatives don't get is that through no fault of their own they have been born into a collective. The United States is a collective and collectives have problems that need to be solved collectively. This is not Marxism it is pragmatism. Charles mentioned sanitation as an area that they government could make better decisions about spending his money. I don't know. I pay a private company to collect my garbage but I think they dump it in a county land fill. The point is that as a collective garbage collection is a problem that needs to be solved collectively. Whether Obama is a Marxist or not we have a problem with garbage in this country and around the world.

Conservatives are lying about Obama. They will continue to lie about Obama. I think this is a great opportunity for the rest of us to learn about what liars conservatives really are.

Just a thought...
I'd concentrate on positive stories about McCain. We're not choosing a president, at least time, on the basis of who is best tearing the other side down. McCain is going to have to prove why we need a continuation of the Republican policies that have everyone so awfully happy right now. It's a trick, I know, but you might want to try.

Obama says "GET OVER IT"
Obama Tells Hillary Supporters to 'Get Over It'
By: Rick Pedraza

"Sen. Barack Obama is being criticized for the choice of words he used last week during a meeting with members of the Congressional Black Caucus in which he reportedly degraded senior female allies of his one-time rival Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., by telling them to 'get over it.'”

Ummm... wonder if that's how he'll deal with folks who might disagree with him...

Again, sounds Marxist to me!

Pathetic Liberal writes @5:11PM: "I win
"A prime example of conservative sophistry is the statement "I can decide how to spend my money better than the government."

ciaou for now.


OF course Pathetic Lib declared to Charles that "I won" and ran out of here... in such a hurry that he forgot to look up how to spell "ciao."

But, can someone try to explain just how the statement "I can decide how to spend my money better than the government." is a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning?

Right! I didn't think so. Those limited liberals will try anything to be funny...

MediocreMark probably hasn't seen

anything 'clearly' ... ever, which is why he's dumbocrap!

And I bet he just LOVES paying all those taxes in NYS.

Get ready, MedioreMark, you're gonna be paying a LOT more if Marxist Obama gets elected. :-)


Bob_C
Of course. Anyone should be able to live well on $100,000 per year.

Now, you will say that this will rob the musicians and writers and business people of their motivation and they will quit producing.

well, let them. There are oodles of talented people in the United States who will take their place. Cut the top income to $100,000 and we'd still be listening to good music, businesses would still be flourishing. It would just be due to other people.

Reminds me of Reagan's reason for becoming a supply sider (as told by Stockman). Reagan said that he and his actor friends would only appear in enough movies to make $1 million per year, because the taxes on money made after $1 million were confiscatory. Reagan deduced that high marginal taxation destroyed the initiative to produce and so became a supply sider.

His example, though, actually proved something quite different. He actually proved that people will be VERY MOTIVATED up until they make that first million.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'd be very willing to quit working after I made my first million. And, I'd be as equally motivated until I made $100,000. After that I could sit back, watch TV and let someone else make their $100,000. In a short time nobody in the United States would be making less than $100,000 a year. Crime and the cost of crime would be way down. The leisure industry would be booming. People would be happy.

Communism- I guess we need another word
Apparently "communism" is not a useful term anymore. Whether due to lack of education or some other phenomenon (having received propaganda instead of education), some people do not understand political systems.

We have even been told here that "communism fell in the 90's", when in fact that was the USSR, which was indeed the biggest communist state. Those same people do not realize what that country was like under communism, nor apparently did they bother to notice what it was like when the curtain fell. Take note that it is rising again, and Russia is returning to communism.

Whatever the reason, the term has become for some a "scare tactic" word, rather than the description of a political system that begins with "nationalizing" business, and "socializing" critical functions (that means the government takes them over, like Ms Waters said).

People at first think it's wonderful that the gov takes care of them. A couple of generations later, they have no clue how to take care of themselves, and thus are completely under the control of said gov. Generational welfare was a close as we have gotten (so far). Even that was a far cry from a complete totalitarian end state.

The result is a people who care little. In Russia, they drank and stared at rotting potato fields. It is soul killing. Read some of the literature from Russians written at the time.

There are still communist aspirants in the world. What would you call Hugo Chavez?
What many of us see in the political left is the use of tools (who are good hearted and into "equality") to gain the power over us all.
It's not some paranoid ideation. Most of the countries in this world are NOT free.

Mr. Donahue! Thank you for
your non-response to my reasonable request for more specific information regarding your BIO. You directed me to the Huffington Post site to ascertain who has been lying and who has been telling the truth. You must have a very poor image of yourself or else you are afraid that some resourceful Town Hall blogger with good investigative skills will find out that none of your BIO has any basis of fact. Your real name may not be Hal Donahue, although you are always boasting that you are the only one who uses his real name on Town Hall. Thank God that you are no longer an officer in the USAF(if you were ever one)leading our young men and women in harms way.
You Mr. Donahue are a phony, liar and a coward and I wouldn't hire you to be a janitor.
Please don't waste your time or mine responding to this post. You will ignored.


Bob_C
You misunderstood Proud Liberal. He only wants to confiscate "profits", that nasty stuff that businesses make. He would never confiscate windfall profits from Obama's book, which serves such a noble social cause. And certainly never the hard-earned fees of the trial lawyers, the bedrock of the Democrat Party.

CKHustler
You may be on to something. I smell a Constitutional Convention early in the Obama reign. Bye-bye Bill of Rights (particularly 2nd Amendment). Bye-bye Electoral College. Statehood for PR and DC. Free lunch for all victims of past discrimination.

You folks who want to let Obama win so that you can nominate a candidate better to your liking in four years will be left holding **** *****.

Proud Liberal
Does that mean we can cut the salaries of Obama and Clinton from $165,000 a year to $100,000 and confiscate all of the proceeds from their books, lectures and appearances?

Movie stars, rappers, rock stars, pro sports figures, POTUS, doctors, lawyers all making no more than $100,000. Nobody.

Only a lib would think that's a good thing. Only a lib would be that unbelievably ignorant of even the most fundamental economic principles. Only a Proud Liberal could be that stupid.

Proud Liberal
You lie like all liberals. I don't give a **** about your original post. The bottom line is that we need the federal government for national defense and state and local governments for some housekeeping functions. In both cases, our elected representatives should be diligent in spending the money wisely or be voted out of office.

The individual should have complete discretion over all other functions.

PL
education is a definite no on that list PL.

The only things things the government should run are things that everyone benefits but not directly.

Highways, defense are two things of that sort. You really need to read about our founding fathers you marxist.

LA
They have already stomped on our constitution...whats to stop them yet again? If they have the power, they will do it. If they had enough to vote in a new constitution, I doubt they wouldn't. Just listen to people like Proud liberal from your party. That is exactly what the dem party leaders are thinking.

Charles: I've won
If you remember, my original post had the subject of "conservative lies," including sophistry. A prime example of conservative sophistry is the statement "I can decide how to spend my money better than the government."

I believe I've gotten you to recognize that in the areas of defense, sanitation, highways, education, etc. that the government can decide better than you can.

ciaou for now.


PL
maybe that list didn't do enough

3M, Lays, Kemps, OfficeMax, Sams Club, Cub, Rainbow, Kohls, JCPenny, Macy's, Applebees, Chili's, Pro sports in general will all dissipate, Colleges, Engineering firms, Medtronic, Rochester Mayo Clinic

Getting tired yet? I could go on. No business owner will stay here if they can make a max of 100k. Period

no one is happy
i keep for getting im in a different country, my post wasnt late. within the last 150 years are so has either party been truly absolutly happy with were there party stood. a liberal nor a conservative has never been satisfied with all policies and what not. obama might have his 8 years as president but then the liberals are going to be looking for someone else who can change the US to become more liberal becuse they think everything is still to conservative. in truth were not conservative and lost our roots a long time ago. the partys have gotten to big unfortunitly(spelling sucks) and u have the feelin God could be takin his hand off this country at anytime now, if it hasnt already happened. no one will ever be happy. the US needs more radical conservatives to slow the onslaught of evil liberal practices

sheepdog/Anne et al
sheepdog:

I see your point. thats why McCain has a reputation for being a "maverick", but you know if you think about it lieberman is doing the same thing to the dems. I just thought that in the interest of party unity the conservatives would back him against obama and so far they have been very cool to his candidacy.

I'm not so sure where this stuff is coming from
that "if you dont vote foror criticize obama, youre a racist". I had never heard that anywhere but in here because I havent heard a single dem/lib say anthing that remotely resembles that..I think youbrepubs/cons are being hypersensitive. If you can produce such a quote let me know..

Anne:

I am really starting to question your mental stability..if you actually believe that a dem prez and congress are going to attempt to convert the u.s govt from capitalism to marxism, socialism/communism, then you are completly nuts...I would require a overthrow of the federal govenment to accomplish something like that...thats some "twilight zone bs" lmao
get a grip lady.

PL
Who would return? Why have 100k when you can have 1000k anywhere else or more? Free parks? They could build their own. Free transportation? They have private jets! How can you not understand how idiotic you sound! Clean air? They live on huge estates!

No sane "rich" person would come here to give up all they own. Many people would move to Canada so they could enjoy our American lifestyle and pay less taxes. Many would leave for Hong Kong. Just look at how many businesses are leaving already. You would cause ford, GMC, Dodge, Northwest, Sunair, Delta, Exxon, BP, JP Morgan, Chase, Wall Street, etc etc. No business would stay.

Do you know why America was the production powerhouse it used to be? I know all you libs hate big business but they made our country great. Big oil, Big steel, Big Sugar. Without them we lose WW2 to Germany and Japan. Without them we never have the luxuries we do. Without them we never would have exported or produced anything of worth.

You should move to a communist country and see how they live instead of trying to change ours without knowing water from glass

Proud Lib
"Turns out he showed up about 18 months after Kerry left."

I missed that one. Who was that specifically? Since you're aware of that fact, surely you can tell us his name. Hmmmm>

Proud Liberal
If you really want an answer, (according to your philosophy), then no I would be in favor of taxes for defense.
Regardless if there were no taxes, I'm still in favor the individual deciding where to spend his/her money instead of the government.


Proud Liberal
Everything.

Major federal and state functions which should be completely in the private sector include health care, housing, agriculture, welfare (charity), etc.

The only valid Cabinet-level positions in the fedeal government are State, Defense, treasury, and Attorney General. All others address concerns best left to the state and local governments and private industry.

Sorry MediocreMark: You have no clue

what's going on. Best you just go back and crawl under your rock!

left angle
some of your points are exactly right. conservatives are going to be out of power for sometime and me being a radical conservative feel we have been out of power since the end of the civil war. as time keeps going, conservatives are going to be the minority and keep losing everything we believe in. i have a feelin some conservatives will get it right and quit waiting for it to be done politicaly because i can promise it will never happen unless God does a miracle. sorry for the extremly late post

Left Angle: You WHAT??? You "see obama

and the dem congress being highly successful in turning this country around and getting it back on the right track domestically and in terms of foreign policy.?


You do, do you??? Well obviously you are looking forward to living in a Marxist country then, because that's exactly what will happen.

And if you think that's "getting it back on the right track domestically" you might want to check out just how much "on the right track" and successful every other Marxist or Communist country worked out.

Here's a hint! They didn't!

Left Angle writes
"You know whats ironic to me..I come in th just about everyday and it utterly amazes me how many articles are written demonizing obama and how few are written "praising and promoting" McCain. there is a disconnect their that maybe I dont get. can you explain it?

I'll answer your question with a question. Would you support Obama if he continually sticks his finger in your eyes and basically says "You may be the base but I don't agree with you and I don't need your votes to win so screw you? (No offense intended just a point) McCain has been known to basically tell the GOP to get bent and thats why you won't find any conservative poster(s) singing the praises of McCain.
As for Obama, I don't know Obama personally (heck he may even be one of the nicest guys in the world for all I know) but judging on his associations with people known to inflict harm on this country, you can understand why conservatives distrust him so much.
And another thing...I'm not saying your one of the liberal posters who make the wild assumption that not voting for Obama makes you a racist or a bigot. That argument is lame. The color of his skin has nothing to with it. Those that make that argument don't have a brain in their head.



Charles
So, lets take away all those things you just mentioned and the taxes to pay for them: national defense, foreign policy, education, highways, police, sanitation and similar functions.

Now, let's take the money you (and your family) have left after those taxes. Enumerate for me those categories (that are left) in which you are better than the government at deciding how you spend the rest of your money.

Polls don't mean squat
Ask Hillary about polls.

The majority of Americans arent' politically active, so you don't hear their comments in forums like these - and their opinions don't show up in polls - but they vote in Presidential elections.

I hope and pray that this vast majority of Americans aren't so stupid that they can't see right through the snake-oil salesman Obama.

Proud Liberal
Name me one book by Marx you've read recently. Then give me a one page summary to prove to me that you understood even one word that you read.

Sheepdog
You are still evading. You say that you have no problem with the government "taking out taxes from my paycheck to devote to the defense of our country."

But do you or do you not think your can decide better than the government how to spend your money? Neither you nor Charles give me an answer. Either you say yes, which means you are in favor of no taxes for defense, or you say no, which means you are in favor of taxes for defense. It's simple.

Proud Liberal
For the last time (you liberals are slow):

The federal government, by the elected representatives, can best decide how to conduct national defense and foreign policy, including the taxes to support these functions.

State and local governments, again by elected representatives, can best decide programs like education, highways, police, sanitation, and similar functions.

Everything else has no place in government.

xjamz/primus
thanks for you responses..

sjamz:

cool, I respect your opinions but totally disagree with them. I think McCain is your only hope for winning this year because a staunch right wing conservative would be unelectable in this political environment primarily because of outdated/outmoded dogma that doesnt connect with the modern electorate. the reagan coalition of social/fiscal conservatives is dead for all intents and purposes and dwelling on the past is what has your party in the connundrum it now faces.

As a democrat I see obama and the dem congress being highly successful in turning this country around and getting it back on the right track domestically and in terms of foreign policy. I fully expect their policies to bring about positive results.

your pessimism and negativity are exactly why repubs/cons are gonna lose come nov 08. prepare yourselves for a long period being the minority and out of power. until you change your attitude and update/modernize your concepts that is where you are going to remain IMHO.

Proud Liberal re your post @3:42
Your story about how a conservatives would spend his/her money is touching but you know as well as I do that would never be the case. As Charles posted in his post at @3:53,

"National defense and foreign policy are the sole legitimate functions of the federal government, and no true conservative objects to taxes for these programs. Only the liberals and the libertarians. " is spot on.

I don't have any problem with the government taking out taxes from my paycheck to devote to the defense our country. I do however oject sometimes to the way that money is spent. Sometimes they (Democrats and Republicans) spend the money like drunken sailors and there is no accountabilty.




When did TH become a comedy site?
I just came back to catch up and happen to have just read Proud Liberal's 3:11 (I think it was 3:11, I'm too scared to read it again)

Is this now a comedy web site????


And Proud Liberal - your 3:42 post was about as stupid as you can get. You've been hanging around with Lilly again haven't you? Has she been sitting on you and cut off your oxygen supply??

That $3.50 you referred to - At least under the circumstances you wrote you can bet that $3.50 would go towards that rifle.

Instead of, now, $1.88 would go towards re-decorating Barney Franks offices in a pretty pink.

$.60 would go towards shuttling Nancy Pelosi cross country.

$.45 would go towards a Robert "Sheets" Byrd monument to himself.

$.38 would go towards Nancy Pelosi and her congressional restaurant.
(BTW, they can't even run a restaurant and yo think that the rich should have their incomes confiscated by them)

$.66 would go towards Obama's United Nations Fund for "Help Kofi Squander More Money Into His Pockets"

$.42 would go towards Gore's Carbon Credit Company to make him even more wealthy - after all he has to pay his electric bill somehow, right?

Oh, we haven't even got to the rifle yet. I guess it would require another tax increase to buy it.


Proud Liberal.....
Where do people like you come from?





Obama has media on his side
With four months to go, the media is kicking into full Obama mode. I have noticed Townhall that is getting more PC everyday, deleting comments which were completely acceptable a year ago, and are now considered inappropriate. Even so, Townhall is nowhere close to what the rest of the media is doing. Case and point. I have been frequenting Newsvine on MSNBC. Now, I am banned. Why? Because I used the H word. Here’s how it came about. A poster said “I wish people would stop using Obama’s middle name. It is disrespectful.” I responded by typing in only three words, “Barack Hussein Obama”. A minute later, the comment was deleted and I got an email saying those three words were offensive and inappropriate. Since the email requested that I respond if I disagree with the assessment, I asked why is a presidential candidate’s middle name not appropriate? That did it. I was immediately banned from the site. Freedom of speech no longer exist, at least not in the liberal media like Newsvine.

Hal Drunkahue
Location: Corner Bar, Scranton, PA

HIC! LMAO! You Ignorant, Bitter, Bible Quoting, Gun Lovers are WRONG AGAIN! I predict a 1932 type LIBERAL LANDSLIDE ion Election Day. 1932, I remember it well. I shaved for the first time in 1932, later that day I attended my 6th Grade Graduation. HIC! LMAO! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! Barack Hussein Obama will LEAD THE WAY as we sweep Conservatives out of office. Being around Barack Hussein Obama sends a chill up my leg. It reminds me of when Wobbie tickles my butt with a feather duster. HIC! LMAO! DO NOT DOUBT ME! I am the ALL SEEING and ALL KNOWING Hal Drunkahue! My success at predictions is ASTOUNDING! It was just a few months ago that I Predicted that Shrillary Cankleton would be elected President of The Unit…er…NEVER MIND! HIC! LMAO! I WILL NOT waste any more of my VALUABLE TIME on you Ignorant Conservatives. It is getting close to Happy Hour and as my first OFFICIAL ACT as a Barack Hussein Obama supporter, I will drink and equal number of Black Russians and White Russians tonight. HIC! LMAO!

Ret. Geek to Proud Lib: "You should have

given credit for your 3:11 pm post. It is almost word for word with Karl Marx."

And here's a thought, I bet Marxist Obama got an A+ !

Problem is, our liberal dumbed down public schools don't even teach this stuff, so many have no clue that what there spewing is, in fact, right out of the Marxist Handbook.

"Proud Liberal keep posting it is enlightening!"

Good call, Ret. Geek! LOL

King Liberal and Proud Liberal et al
One need not be old to recognize failures that have been tried before.

One only needs to know history and have logic and reason that is not warped by ideology.

There is many 'flavors' of Marxism - socialism, nazism, fascism, maoism etc all required a collectivist society and participation by all.

All have more similarities than differences - all have been tried and failed for the same basic reason.

Coercion on those who do not wish to participate.

The attempts to force individuals who do not wish to participate in collectives have resulted in over 100,000,000 deaths.

Collectivism is not compatible with the free will of the individual or individual rights such as private property, self determination and the right to pursue individual happiness.

What coercion will be used against Catholic hospitals or Doctors and Nurses that do not wish to participate in Universal Healthcare and Universal Abortion?

What coercion will be used against those who own companies and do not wish to give them up?

Fairness under the US Constitution and Bill of Rights demands that evey individual citizen have the same rights as every other individual - no more and no less.

If you want a 'fair' country start protesting anyone or anything that have rights that 'all citizens' do not have, like Affirmative Action and Corporate Welfare - demand justice for all.

Charles:
Do you deliberately misunderstand my posts? That is, pretend to misunderstand?

The statement under examination is whether you and everyone else can spend your money, all of your money, better than the government ever could.

Saying that taxing people for defense is the sole legitimate function of government is, in fact, a demonstration of agreement with MY POSITION. If you and everyone else can decide how to spend your money better than the government you should be satisfied with whatever level of defense comes out of that.

If you are dissatisfied with the level of defense that comes from everyone deciding how best to spend their own money, then you'd better look at your premise again.

What you appear to be saying is that you would spend an adequate amount of your income as your share of defense, but that everyone else would not.

Left Angle
Happy to explain, LA.

Conservatives are not enthused about John McCain because he's not a conservative.

Conservatives are focused on "demonizing" (your term, not ours) Obama right now because he's the presumptive Democratic nominee, and because his proposed policies, if implemented, would do more to damage this nation than any single terrorist could ever hope to accomplish.

As David notes, Obama says what he wants to when he wants to, whether it's in sync with what he said yesterday, last week, or last year. The ease with which lies roll off his tongue is disconcerting, vaguely reminiscent of a purported apocalyptic world figure said to be coming soon.

King Lib writes: ".. Karl Marx, McCarthy

and communism-which was defeated back in the 90s."

And you wonder why I refer you you and your liberal comrades as "limited?" THAT statement, among many others shows exactly how limited you really are.

CHHustler
My guess is that all those Americans you say will leave do leave. But we'll have just as many applicants from other countries to come and take their place. They'll come and take their place and keep America great and enjoy living in this great country on their $100,000 a year. They'll have great air, clean sea shores, great National Parks, free public transportation, lots of leisure time to enjoy life.

Bye, bye Hustler.

Proud Geek: Name me one book by Marx you've read recently. Then give me a one page summary to prove to me that you understood even one word that you read.

Proud Liberal, Left Angle & King Liberal
You drones can continue to come here to Townhall and defend your candidate until the cows come home (BTW, you'd save yourself a great deal of typing by simply copying your posts from thread-to-thread) - but nothing you can or will say will change one, simple & cold reality:

Barack Obama is unelectable - as you will come to realize more and more as November draws ever closer.

And I mean "unelectable" in the sense that McGovern & Mondale were "unelectable".

And that's against a really, weak candidate in McCain.

charles: the logic being..
if someone in th ask me what are obama's positions on the issues and what are his proposals as potus as far as I am concerned
that is a excellent place to find out and it would be the same as with mccain. now wheter
a person would agree with what either of them
proposes or where they stand depends on ones
political persuasion. So for someone to insult my intelligence for sending there to find out makes me question THEIR judgement.

You know whats ironic to me..I come in th just about everyday and it utterly amazes me how many articles are written demonizing obama and how few are written "praising and promoting" McCain. there is a disconnect their that maybe I dont get. can you explain it?

Proud Liberal
National defense and foreign policy are the sole legitimate functions of the federal government, and no true conservative objects to taxes for these programs. Only the liberals and the libertarians.

Sheepdog
One of the black lies I'm referring to is the Swift Boat book. One of the authors says he was in Nam when Kerry was there. Turns out he showed up about 18 months after Kerry left.

Other lies are basically distortions and sophisms, dear to the conservative's heart.

Let's take your money. Let's say that the government agrees with your belief that you know how to spend your money better than the government and you get all your income, no taxes.

You spend your money as you think best: you put food on the table for your family; send your children to the best schools available; take nice vacations with your family; tithe 10% or more to your church; give more money to the charities of your choice.

Then at the end of the month a neighbor comes by collecting for "Defense." Explains that the neighbors are getting together a fund to buy a rifle for a needy soldier in Iraq. You comb your pockets for loose change, bully your kids into giving back a dollar of their allowances and proudly dump $3.50 into the rifle fund for the needy soldier in Iraq.

Then clap yourself on the back for spending your own money better than the government ever could.

Sophism? Why don't you take a guess.

Great Article Mr. Limbaugh
Limbaugh wrote: "...Obama's major campaign challenge will not be to reveal, but to conceal his true identity..."

Great insight - keep giving ammuntion to those of us in the trenches.

Five Stars as usual!

Left Angle
That's fair, and I won't vote for Obama. But it's not fair for you to insult other people's intelligence for not reading the Obama website and believing the sugar-coated crap presented.

Obama and Collectivism
Obama and more Liberal madness
"Obama will create 20 Promise Neighborhoods in cities across the nation that have high levels of poverty and crime and low levels of student academic achievement...to an entire neighborhood from birth to college" Obama Blueprint for Change
------------------------------------------------

Obama is not satisfied that 'collectivism' for the 'common good' has destroyed entire inner cities and entire generations of black youth.

Obama believes that the failure of 'collectivism' (Socialism, Marxism, Nazism etc.) was because he was not in charge.

Over 100,000,000 have been starved to death, murdered and tortured to death by trying to 'help people' for the 'common good'.

Marxist thinkers like Obama think that 'collectivism' will work this time even though it has never worked and will never work because 'collectivism' steals what rightfully belongs to a citizen and gives it to someone else - why work? why be industrious? why be creative about new products and services?

Obama will coerce the individual citizen to participate in his dream at any cost to those who do not wish to participate.

Proud Liberal and plagiarism
I just finishe reading several books by Karl Marx.

You should have given credit for your 3:11 pm post. It is almost word for word with Karl Marx.

Shame on you for stealing the writings of Karl Marx and the not giving him credit!!!!

People like you are exposing the true agenda of the Democrat party in general and Obama in particular.

Proud Liberal keep posting it is enlightening!

Proud Liberal.
Thank you for your 'Marxist manifesto'.It is one of the clearest contrasts I have seen between us and 'them'.

You should have it printed so you can use it to show the rest of us who you really are,if we forget. Your previous posts have hinted at it,but this tells it all.

It would be funny reading if I thought you were kidding. I don't believe you are.

charles: of couse
you would say that, youre a repub/con. I wouldnt expect you to say anything differently.
that's your opinion and thats cool.
democrats think VERY differently on the subject.

i have said this before and i will say it again.

if you dont like obama, dont vote for him.

it's that simple.

CKHustler: How right you are... AGAIN.

And, it's called "redistribution of wealth" which is one of the Many things B. Marxist Obama has taken right out of the Marxist Handbook.


Problem is, Proud Lib and the other leftistas don't GET IT!


Democrat Manifesto
In "Why taxing the rich is good", Proud Liberal has fairly summarized the Democrat position. Obama is far more radical.

PL
haha!! really?!?!?! Are you that stupid? Take a look at USSR and tell us how communism worked out. You know what happens when you do that. Every rich person in America leaves and we have no taxes to collect from them. Our businesses leave. All entrepenuers leave as well. You will have killed our economy. No person has any reward for starting a business and therefore we would have none. Great job PL! hahaha!!! that is the most insane comment I have ever seen.

Left Angle
The Obama website is like the exterior of the Trojan Horse, a glossy cover for the horrible consequences that lie inside. It is all vague BS, no substance, no real truth.

Why taxing the rich is good
The rich seem to believe that they have an entitlement to be rich and once they are rich have an entitlement to do whatever they like. They seem to feel that they are a special interest group.

What they don't realize is that we can replace the whole crowd of "rich" with another crowd any day. The current rich are not irreplaceable as they seem to think they are.

The rich are dependent upon all the physical and social systems which generations of average Americans have worked to put into place, such as educational, political, legal and financial systems. The rich merely use the work of previous generations who made the critical investments to take advantage of those previous investments.

The "rich's money" is not their money. Without our financial, banking, political and social systems the rich would be powerless to start these systems from scratch.

The rich are simply not entitled to skim the profits that are generated by the collective action of generations of previous Americans.

Any profits over $100,000 a year should be returned to the American public through confiscatory taxes.

Proud Liberal
Thats great coming from a person who thinks the government can handle my money better than me and has a right to do so. You sir are a full blown marxist. No question about it.

That last statement was incredibly funny though. Ill give you that.

Don: a response
first of all normally i wouldnt respond to a person such as yourself because when i read your post you sound retarded or just slow..I can't really tell.

I was asked about what Sen. Obama proposes to do as POTUS and his stand on the major issues.
On his website those issues are addressed in full detail. all of that information is covered their in great detail. anyone with any semblence of intelligence would know that all you have to do is READ IT AND COMPREHEND WHAT IT'S SAYING. It's that simple because I am not going to do your homework for you. I know what the man stands for on the issues and apparently YOU DONT.. tough sh*t...you oppose him and YOU cant explain why? you are a retard. lol

Proud Liberal
says, "They simply have to get used to listening to Obama in a different way."

Sorry, but I don't have to do any such thing, at least until the Obama mob seizes power and outlaws critical thought.

Proud Liberal.
I don't recall hearing a 'black lie'
until this black liar started telling them.You are right,though, he is thoughtful and nuanced. A thoughtful and nuanced liar is still a liar.

SunThe1
Rush has Audio of Michelle Obama referring to Barack as "My Baby's Daddy".

Proud Liberal writes
"Obama is the most thoughtful, nuanced political candidate since the Founding Fathers. The American electorate is used to hearing blunt, black lies from conservatives. They simply have to get used to listening to Obama in a different way.

I'm sorry which lies are you referring to?

If you think Obama is the most thoughtful, nuanced political candidate since the founding fathers, then your hair must be standing on end.

Eddie too
Abort proto-feminist men.

BlackBird
Hello from Maryland!

Hal Drunkahue's standard act is to either ignore you or tell you to look it up. His bio can be found on Huffington Post and his Philosophy can be found in The Communist Manifesto.

Conservative lies is the real problem
Obama is the most thoughtful, nuanced political candidate since the Founding Fathers. The American electorate is used to hearing blunt, black lies from conservatives. They simply have to get used to listening to Obama in a different way.

Obama's "New Arfika" America!!
Many Years ago, I read in "The Source" the Bible of the Hip-Hop young Afro-Americans, that they would take over the U.S. and name It "New Afrika". If you think that the Illegals from the Dark Continent, [Somalis,Etc.]are thick now?? Wait till the "Great Brown Hope", "Barrack the Magnificent", Peace and Blessings be upon Him, the "New Messiah",-- Allah's New Prophet, gets elected, and ushers in the Age of "The Black Planet". [Don't blame me folks, that is how "The Source" "Ran It Down."] We will be Inundated by "African Refugees". They can come here, live the American Dream, ['cuz they're too sorry to save/run thier own country] get on a U.S. Gov't. Provided Computer, and run "Nigerian Scams" on American Citizens. Obamas change will be the same as the "Frito Bandito's" [Banned by La Raza,(a Mexican RACICT Org., by Name and definition) you may recall] He'll do a "Magic Trick", and CHANGE Your Money/Country to HIS!!

The Blackbird
I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty to copy your questions for Hal to the Thomas Sowell thread - as they are questions many of us have asked for years.

He replied - essentially admitting he is too cowardly to let us poor timid folks have any more information on him.

So... to summarize, Hal will truthfully answer your questions when old Beelzebub starts wearing fur in Hell.

ModMark
I confess that I haven't done the math, but I suspect that the power required to run an all-electric fleet would be overwhelming. Plus, if natural gas is burned, it doesn't matter what time of day, the consumption will be the same.

As far as nuclear power, I will believe it when I see it if Obama and the Democrats ever support nuclear power. They could make a good start by opening Yucca Mountain for nuclear waste disposal.

The greenies don't want any kind of power, just a return to the Stone Age.

Blackbird @12:12PM: You're just going to

have to trust me on this one... :-)

baby mama-Get yo facts straight.
Perhaps this should go on Mr. Obama's myths website.
Fox News did NOT call Mrs. Obama that name. It was "outraged liberals" who called on the public to "lay off of baby mama". Fox carried the story and reported the quote as a quote, but did not refer to Mrs. Obama that way.

Personally, I don't think they should report everything a bunch of idiots say.

Retierd Geek ,Anne & Other Righties.
I read something today in an e-mail that others may have seen,but not me. I think it was from 'newsmax'.

I have not seen it pointed out anywhere,but Cherie Jacobus,who I have seen speaking for conservatives, said Obama had spent only 143 days in the senate. 143 days!!

Have any of you seen that? Does that make him experianced enough to be our president? He must be a fast learner. Or a fantastic puppet for Soros,his puppeteer.

Mr. Donahue! I sincerely hope
I haven't caused you an imposition by asking for more specifics regarding your BIO. It's always easier to back up the truth than try to fabricate facts to back up lies. Surely this shouldn't be a problem for you.

ModMark
I know you are for nuclear so Im not poking you here. But for us to have plug in cars and for prices to stay low, Nuclear is a must. Our politicians are blocking us at every corner. No more drilling, no more nuclear...where are we to get our energy? The best energy policy they could do would be to remove all their regulations.

The problem with Barr
and other libertarians is that many strong conservatives do not agree with their foreign policy platform and foreign policy is the foremost issue of importance. I support the war on terror, including the Iraq war, and do not believe it is reasonable to do nothing until the Islamists invade our shores.

Retired Geek
"Clownophobe", man that's classic! LMAO!

McCain
I see many conservatives say they will hold their nose and vote for McCain. That is all fine, however I would like them to consider the possibility of voting third party. I will probably vote Barr this election. Reason? McCain will end up conforming to the democratic congress and we end up with democratic policies anyways. Judges? I can't trust him after his history anyways. Obama could put us back on the right track by forcing Americans to wake up to what democrats really want for us. Socialism and Marxism. Americans are right of center, but they are sweet talked by the dems. We have to open their eyes.

How do you bring the country back right? We vote for Barr. That will send a message to Republicans that we refuse to put them in power if they continue to stomp on conservative platform items. This will also send Obama to the White House. Now...I know many are thinking this is bad, I do too. But I think this is better than slowly shifting left once more. Obama will try and shove so many harmful policies down our throats that Americans will have to wake up to the fact that they are socialists at the very least.

I believe Jimmy Carter brought about the Reaganites. Clinton and the Perot votes brought about the 94 election. We need to send our message now! A vote against McCain can do just that. Obama may wake us up like Carter did and someone like Jindal could be next.

So, while I don't say you must vote for McCain as I see where you are coming from. I urge to consider each of the possibilities for who wins.

Denigrate
The word "denigrate" in any variation will not be allowed in the Obama reign.

Vindex
Focusing on abortion will not bring you conservatism. They are not necessarily synonymous (examples: Buchanan, Huckabee).

Peacefrog2r et al
I sincerely apologize to all clowns everywhere in the world.

Denigrating clowns by comparing them to Obama - is my bad.

I guess that makes me a 'clownophobe' suffering from Antipathy.

Actually, telling the truth about Obama is much more of an attack then any slanderous statement one could makeup according to Obama and his wife.

*Free tin foil hat fitting for each Obama vote.


I'd rather be in Alaska



"The last Presidential candidate I voted FOR was Ronald Reagan. Since then, every vote I have cast has been a protest vote AGAINST the corrupt, immoral, pro-abortion party that celebrates the likes of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton."

Yeah, great strategy there, fella. Look what it got you. Yep... the GOP has really shaped up thanks to you! Stay the course!! Actual conservatism from the GOP is just around the corner. It's not premature to declare mission accomplished!

Yep... definitely... stay the course. That oughta show em.

Gil
I proposed election by lot. I too thought it couldn't be worse.

The only downside is that it would increase even more the power of the entrenched bureaucracy, as we would have no continuity at all in the elected offices.

Otherwise, it couldn't be much worse. I mean we elect crazy people and incompetents and criminals now, so why would election by lot be worse?

http://andrews.blogtownhall.com/2007/12/30/an_interesting_t hought.thtml

At 12:17 AM...
...Kimberly said it all. In her eyes The Obama "looks presidential".

The man is putting on a hat in the picture, yet it is enough for Kimmy to swoon over.

People faint, or possibly feint, at his speeches.

National news commentators with audiences of thousands, maybe even hundreds or dozens, admit to tingles in their legs when they hear him speak.

In short the faithful are so mesmerized that they will never be distracted by any back-peddling, double talk, position changes or out right falsehoods the man might do or utter.

He also has the advantage of help from the faithful in that all the attacks and racial implications that came up as a result of his contest against Queen Hillary are now being attributed to the Right Wing Attack Machine.

He has himself started a preemptive counter attack against wrongs not even brought his way with his, "Now you're going to hear..." speech the other day. He failed to mention that we have heard these things, we heard them from his fellow Democrats as he was running against the Clintons.

Many who post on here, from both sides, chide each other about drinking the Kool-Aid. It might be best we remember that it was a man who the faithful were charmed by that got that saying started.

Some people get tingles in their legs but I get a little suspicious when crowds throw away good sense and fall all over themselves for politicians in this way.

Retired Geek
Please refrain from calling Obama a clown. Clowns are cool. The only times they flip and flop is are for laughs. When it comes to Obama im not laughing.

Motley Crue,

re: feminist type men.

Did you know soybeans act to increase estrogen in men? Also, soybeans or soybean drivatives, oil, lecithin, etc., are present in almost all frozen dinners, all bread, most baked goods, all margarines, et al. The pre-born male human is particularly susceptible to soybean imbibed by his mother.

Soybeans may be contributing to all of the effeminate looking and acting men these days.

Liberals resent those that fled cities
Liberals have been losing 'cash cows' (tax payers) ever since their policies turned cities into crime centers.

Liberals may believe the only way to get them back is to make gas prices so high the taxpayer has no choice.

Punish the taxpayer is the main point in the Obama 'Change We Can Believe In'.

broshow
What is your point?

Politicians don't run for political positions?

Democrats have blocked sources of energy supply for over 30 years.

Obama now wants to investigate the possibility of Nuclear energy - typical leftest clown.


Obama,

is not a typical politician. He is much more scurrillous. He decrys his opponents playing the "race card", and then makes his public comments about "by the way he's black". About as two-faced as a politician can get.

Not to mention, evidence suggests he is a black bigot. Evidence being his use of the "typical white person" characterization. That is a true display of biotry. Then, how about his demeaning comments about rural people, and believers in God, and people who believe in the Second Amendment. These are not gaffes. They were stated in pre-written speeches. These are indications of the man beneath the hype.

ModMark
If everyone had an electric "plug-in" car, the electric utilities could not produce enough power to supply the need. Since the green weenies will not allow coal or nuclear, the power will need to come from new natural gas generation, skyrocketing the price of both electricity and natural gas, thereby increasing home heating costs. Gasoline at $5 per gallon (or more) might look cheap.

Of course, we could depend on solar power, provided that you are willing to charge your car during the day and drive at night. Or on wind power on days when the wind is blowing.

Obama
Obama is a wolf in sheep's clothing, a Trojan Horse, the Manchurian candidate. Not just slick, but extremely dangerous. Not just another liberal, but a wild radical (after the election).

Those who think there is little difference between Obama and McCain are delusional. They may understand McCain, but they do not begin to comprehend Obama.

Cars for the rich
How is some poor sap who lives in a 3rd floor walk-up, or anyplace without off-street parking for that matter, going to charge his plug-in hybrid? Drop an extension cord out the window and across the sidewalk? That's assuming he can get within range of the extension cord.

I can just picture the next teen prank. Going out at night and unplugging charging cars. Hilarious!!

Geeks and Sheep
Well fellas what is your point? The fact is that gas was $1.50 when W. took office and it was $3.00 in Sept of '05. If Bush couldn't bring the price down in 5 years what makes you think the Dems. should be able to do the same in 1 and a half.
It's more complicated than that, I'm afraid.
Also the silly comments about Republican versus Democratic support of various energy issues is mindless. A difference of 1-4 percent in the level of support between the two parties is negligible.
When is everyone going to realize that both candidates are politicians? As such, they will say what they have to say to get elected. One is not more patriotic, noble, virtuous, ho