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Tuesday, November 13, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Denying Progress in Iraq
by David Limbaugh
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Listening to the Democrats denying our progress in Iraq is reminiscent of a high school debate where one team gets stuck with the wrong side of the issue and has to defend it valiantly anyway. But in real life, especially when life-and-death consequences are involved, such artificial, unreasonable positions are not valiant but disgraceful.

On Fox News Sunday, Chris Wallace asked Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson whether his plan to withdraw all troops from Iraq was outdated now that the surge "shows signs of working." Wallace noted that U.S. casualties for October were the lowest since March 2006 and civilian casualties, murders and roadside bomb attacks have all fallen dramatically.

Straight-faced, Richardson replied, "First of all, I don't believe the surge is working. … You don't measure progress by body counts."

Oh? You sure could have fooled Richardson's fellow Democrats who used that yardstick with a vengeance prior to the surge.

But that was before the facts became inconvenient. Since the surge has been working, many Democrats have shifted the goal posts to say we may only measure our progress by political successes.

Political progress was not what Sen. Harry Reid had in mind when he declared the Iraq War lost. It's not what other Democrats were stressing when ceaselessly bludgeoning us with news of daily body counts. That was so yesterday. Richardson, along with other Democrats, now says, "There is no progress in political compromise. The Maliki government has failed to make that happen in dividing up all revenues. Three out of 18 benchmarks by the General Accounting Office have shown that it is a failure."

So if the new struggling government hasn't achieved final legislative compromises on issues that would be exceedingly difficult for an established government, let alone an infant one, our mission in Iraq is a failure? Using that criterion, we must declare the American Revolution and our experiment in constitutional republicanism failures as well since the modern Democratic Party won't even compromise to get behind a war we're currently winning.

It apparently never occurs to these enlightened liberals that in certain situations, the successful use of force is a condition precedent to political compromise -- a principle on full display with Iraqi tribal leaders finally turning on al-Qaeda.

But what is Richardson's proposed political solution? Simple. We should "use the leverage of our withdrawal responsibly over a 12-month period but push the United States diplomacy" toward a power sharing compromise among "the three groups in Iraq."

"Leverage of our withdrawal"? I'm sure our threats to withdraw will scare al-Qaeda and insurgent groups into scampering to the peace table.

But why pick on Richardson? He's just one of an overwhelming majority of Democrats taking this position. Antiwar liberal darling Markos Moulitsas of the Daily Kos website recently expressed similar denial of the surge's success. He said on Bill Maher's show that while the numbers may look better now in Iraq, it will only be a matter of time before things go to hell again. These people will go to any lengths to avoid admitting a Bush policy is working, though their protests are much less credible than a high school debater's.

That said, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was doubtlessly a better debater than Bill Richardson. Pelosi gleefully rushed to the podium last week to lament that no matter what the currently monthly casual statistics show, 2007 is the deadliest year in Iraq yet for American troops. You must admit that Pelosi exhibits impressive resourcefulness in spinning numbers to deny the very encouraging trends across the board in Iraq and to justify her inalterable predisposition against the war.

Democrats are stuck in a time warp and are irreversibly wedded to defeat in Iraq -- there's simply no more tactful way of saying it.

Former Democrat Sen. Joe Lieberman agrees. He said that since retaking Congress in November 2006, "the top foreign policy priority of the Democratic Party … has been to pull our troops out of Iraq, to abandon the democratically elected government there and to hand a defeat to President Bush. … Democrats have remained emotionally invested in a narrative of defeat and retreat in Iraq, reluctant to acknowledge the progress we are now achieving."

The Democrats unifying motto should be, to paraphrase the late John Lennon, "All we are saying, is give defeat a chance."

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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No responses to this article?
I am very surprised that there have been (as yet) no responses to this excellent article, especially from certain liberals who can always be counted on for a pessimistic outlook on the war. The Democrats of today would have called the D-Day invasion a quagmire when we were bottled up in Normandy and they would have been clamoring for us to pull out and acknowledge defeat. When it comes to confronting evil, Democrats can always be counted on to show their true colors about how little regard they have for the USA and its safety. They would gladly pull all our troops out of Iraq and let things deteriorate into immense bloodshed and allow it to become a base for the Taliban and Bin Laden's thugs. Then they would blame it all on President Bush when it was their own ineptness and cowardice that allowed the situation to descend into a hellish environment. The Democrats would rather see Bin Laden take over Iraq and then launch a successful attack on the USA in the interest of their shameful brand of politics than to see us win in Iraq. It amazes me how little I see on CNN.com any more about how bad things are in Iraq. And, of course, they will almost never allow anything positive to be said about the current situation in Iraq. Their current relative silence about how bad things are in Iraq speaks volumes about how well things have turned around.

Let's be frank . . .
The political climate in Iraq could be the mirror image of the USA and the Democrats would deny any successes. It doesn't matter what the issue is, whatever it is cannot help unless a Democrat is president. Then, all bets are off.

Democrats view every angle of this war through a political spectrum. And the goal is to embarrass Bush and the USA. I say USA as these people want the throw a cow-pie in the face of everyone that supports the war and all it stands for.

QUESTION FOR RUDY
RUDY GIULIANI: Gaza Pullout Foreshadows Iraq Pullout


You claim if we pull out of Iraq that the Sunnis and Shiites will have a regional Civil war because of the history of fighting each other. Why do you think they can form a strong federal government and function as a representative democracy if they have this history of fighting each other since 700 AD?

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/rudy-giuliani-gaza -pullout-foreshadows-iraq-pullout



Denying that there's more than the GOP
"Democrats are stuck in a time warp and are irreversibly wedded to defeat in Iraq -- there's simply no more tactful way of saying it. "

And you're stuck in a warp where GOP politics is your primary focus. I hate to be the one to break it to you David, but the GOP has now sold out Americans concerned about the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights just as much as the party that you rage against.

Dare to get away from party politics for a change and into the realm of reality!

Don't continue to be a dope!

Good news in Iraq
and good news in our economy (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/?id=110010855)

means BAD NEWS for the Doom and Gloom libturds.

BTW, check my blog for a ripper on WHY we need to ditch NATO and thoughts on guns.

tv news
It really shows on tv news as they have really slowed on reporting from iraq. Good news is no news.

Lots of nerve
The Dems have a lot a nerve complaining that the Iraqi government hasn't met their bench marks. Who are they to make demands.

They should spend half as much time trying to accomplish the peoples work instead of the partisain BS they have been doing.

The greatest thing is that so far this do nothing congress has hurt us very little. They have mainly wasted time and money on go nowhere investigtions and reintroduction of go nowhere bills.

To paraphrase them....wasting money on a political show investigation never fed a hungry child.

Cyclist
Of course they would deny any progress if it was a mirror image of the US. There'd be republicans and you know how they feel about us conservative types!! They could have the AQ sitting at a town hall meeting in Iraq singing cumbaya and they'd complain it's too religeous. The only way the libbers will ever be happy is if the conservative party disbands and goes away.

SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FATE!!

HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Brain Freeze when I heard Richardson

say, "First of all, I don't believe the surge is working. … You don't measure progress by body counts."

Limbaugh is right... the leftistas certainly DID use "body count" as a way of measuring how we were losing the war... EVERY DAY!

And here's the other thing I don't understand. One one hand the leftistas insist that we can only win this war "diplomatically" but on the other hand they accuse the US of forcing democracy on countries that don't want it... how dare we?

Well, if I start understanding THAT "logic", please, somebody shoot me because I've most likely lost my mind!





MAYBE
When they start passing A LOT of pork all of DC will approve of them! Heck they already have no border control, and that sounds DEMO/GOLBALIST to me! I don’t get why they don’t like Iraq’s government?

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Denial
There's plenty to go around on both sides.

While it's true that Dems are heavily invested in failure in Iraq, the Limbaughs of the world fail to offer an objective analysis based on reality.
Of the two major issues that have contributed the most to progress, the only one mentioned is the alliance with our former enemies, Sunni insurgents mostly in Anbar, but spreading to Diyala and Salludin provinces.
The one completely ignored is Moqtada Al-Sadr's call for the Mahdi Army to lay down its arms. Rather than bring Al-Sadr into the arena of discussion, we;ve responded with raids and rocket attacks on Sadr City.
Irnonically it is the Al-Sadr contingency of Shiites that is less connected to Iran than the SIC/DAWA/Badr that actually runs the Iraqi government. Al-Sadr's movement is more Iraqi nationalist than Tehran-inspired.

utahnotmormon
What a load of BRAVO SIERRIA! Go read the Rules Of Engagement and tell me how our troops are launching "rocket attacks"?
Ever heard of Seal team 10?
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/06/navy_sealbook_070618w /
It’s same crap all over again, and politicians are responsible for getting our troops killed!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

More denial
Thanks for proving my point, Doc. A less objective observer would be hard to find.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ik4-E5LZKCeHROp86iGuw34 FdLlA

BAGHDAD (AFP) — US forces killed 49 "criminals" in fierce fighting with militants in Baghdad's Shiite stronghold of Sadr City on Sunday during a raid targeting an Iranian-linked insurgent, the military said.

Medics at four hospitals confirmed 17 dead, including a boy and a girl, but US military spokesman Major Winfield Danielson told AFP there were no civilian casualties and no reports of American losses.

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki ordered a probe into the incident which the Iraqi authorities said had caused civilian casualties.

Pictures taken by an AFP photographer showed grieving relatives carrying off the bodies of dead for burial and dozens of wounded being treated by emergency hospital staff.

One resident stood crying over the coffin of a young boy, while other residents pointed to blood-stained mattresses they said were the result of an air strike from an American helicopter.


One Year ago
this week, the new Dumbocrat congress was voted in. Now, today, this congress is the lowest polling congress in american history. Lets see how the whackos can spin this. Their numbers are lower than those of the whitehouse! We must lose in Iraq. There is no GWT! Lets let the illegals stay and get drivers liscense. No wonder their numbers are so low. Lets not forget about TAXES.
Get a clue libsquirts, your not very popular today!

AFP
I wouldn't believe Agence France Presse if they told me the Earth was round.

David
"Democrats are stuck in a time warp and are irreversibly wedded to defeat in Iraq -- there's simply no more tactful way of saying it. "

Lie, after lie, after lie. We won in Iraq years ago. What we failed to do was get our butts out of the way. We have threats in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and now a real nuclear threat from Pakistan where citizens must choose between a failed, oppressive military dictatorship or Al Q and Osama - remember him? Who would have thought a ragtag group of terrorists could attack the world's only super power, slaughter nearly 3,000 of its citizens and six years later be thriving and possess a real chance of obtaining nukes. You done a good job Georgie. David, you and your child, military and veteran abusing brother should hang it up.

SSDD
Same [Hal], Different Day.

utahnotmormon
AS soon as you know how to wage a war in which innocent people are not killed, please let us know. I for one would demand our government wage war that way! Also please try to remember that the “terrorist” purposely run and hide in populated areas, KNOWING that is their best hope for escape. They know our troops do not go around killing innocents on purpose!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Max Power
writes:
"You say that with such glee, why are you so happy about this?"

Your kidding right? The left will never be satisfied until america has fallen into a third world state! Thats why Hal can be filled with so much glee today. He is a wanna be, and a traitor!

utahnotmormon
Also please provide proof that it was not the “terrorist “did not do the killing. It is not like they care about their human shields or have not murdered them to make the troops look bad.

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

SSGT
WHEN the libcommies in the Kongress get the approval rate to 0, does that mean we can revolt, exile the libs, and get back to making America a great place to live?

God, Guns, and Guts made America free.

Even more denial
>I wouldn't believe Agence France Presse if they told me the Earth was round.<

So you don't believe that "Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki ordered a probe into the incident which the Iraqi authorities said had caused civilian casualties."?

Yet you're more than willing to believe exactly what our spokemen say? You really believe that there's no possibility of civilian casualties when helicopter gunships fire into a heavily populated urban area? You really believe that only "criminals" were killed?

I wouldn't believe you if you said the Earth was round.


SSGT
Hal, in his childlike manner, wishes revenge on the people who "passed him over" for his Bird. Grey Ghost knows people who served with him and they called HalD a typical AF bureaucrat. (Shot through and through with chickensh*t!) WHy do you think that he hangs with the Perfumed Prince, who got SH*TCANNED by Clinton of all people! haha.

SO how better to get revenge then to bring down the USA?

That's how the libsquirts think.

Hal Donahue writes:
Who would have thought a ragtag group of terrorists could attack the world's only super power, slaughter nearly 3,000 of its citizens and six years later be thriving and possess a real chance of obtaining nukes.

I would because people like you have been running interference for them since 9-11. Read Buzz Patterson's new book War Crimes you may learn something.

Max Power
"but he cares more about being a democrat than being an American."

KA-BAM! Dropped the hammer on the puke with that one. You're dead-on. Liberals in America would sacrifice whatever it took to regain power. They'd make a deal with the Devil to be back sliming up the WH.

Tactics
>AS soon as you know how to wage a war in which innocent people are not killed, please let us know.<

As has been shown in Iraq in Anbar, success began when we ceased airstrikes that caused high amounts of civilian casualties and began talking and working with those who we were calling "terrorists" for years.

Our focus should be primarily on routing foreign jihadists, then working to get the indigenous factions to provide their own security.

Max Power
Not at all I am scared to death. This raises the stakes tremendously. I hope the rest of the world can contain it at least until this incompetent regime is gone. We certainly appear unable to with current leadership. Let's see our fighter planes are disintegrating in mid air; our army and marines are on their what tour

GunnyG/Max Power
I just spoke with my nephew in Iraq! Its funny the story he tells me, vice, what is being disputed by the numbnut Hal D. Its pretty weird how the stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum! Doom and Gloom from the whackos, vice, everything is moving along fine (my nephew). I wonder who I'm gonna believe?

GunnyG/SSgt
Spread what lies you will and by the way they are lies but how does that address the growing threats against the country and our weakening military strength?

utahnotmormon
Our focus should be primarily on routing foreign jihadists, then working to get the indigenous factions to provide their own security.

I can agree with this but, you ask me to believe that our troops shot without being shot at? Sorry no can do!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Max Power
HalD posts the same old crap over and over. His latest post, "Let's see our fighter planes are disintegrating in mid air; our army and marines are on their what tour," is just more hogwash.

What the idiot fails to realize is that his HERO Hanoi John Fonda-Kerry has voted AGAINST ever military bill, when he's there to vote anyway. Not to mention that Clinton has EIGHT years with which to issue in new equipment but did nothing but slash the DoD budget.

Funny, I was at the MC Birthday Ball and many of the Marines there were on multiple tours yet no one was b*tching. I have friends TRYING to come back over and there is a WAITING LIST at Quantico for Marines trying to come to Iraq.

Just ignore LtCol Chickenshiit.

GunnyG
did you see the planes disintegrating in mid-air last night? I sure did! I also watch the flying pigs line dancing under the night starlit skies!

SSGT/Max Power
Check my blog for something on NATO as well as the continuing cost of Bubba's Big Adventure in Bosnia. Hint: It's a lot.

SSGT
Oh yeah, I watched this F-16 fly-by the other day and it just, like, disintegrated dude. I watched a Bradley F.V. drive by losing parts along the roadside and Iraqis picking them up and making new vehicles to use against us. It's, like, over dude.

Repub Albatross: Iraq War/ Prez Bush
Repubs/cons continue to beat a dead horse back
to life in the form of the Iraq War. The vast majority long ago soured on Prez Bush and his handling of bungled affair, which has uneccessarily cost american soldiers lives and done absolutely nothing to "make the U.S. safer"
as his supporter suggest. Poll after major poll shows the depths of the unpopularity of Prez Bush and his Iraq War with the american public.
Republican Prez candidates should be aware that continued support to "stay the course to victory"
(whatever that means) will be political suicide
and a assured democratic victory in elections 08, with dems taking the whitehouse and maintaining cotrol of Congress. the american people want Bush's debacle in Iraq to be over.
with dems controlling the white house and congress it soon will be.

HalD
For someone who crows about the military, YOU sure backed the wrong horse.

Kerry's voting record:

He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every aircraft carrier laid down from 1988
He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system He voted to Kill the F-15 Strike Eagle
He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to Kill the B-1
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the Patriot Anti Missile System
He voted to Kill the FA-18
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the F117

He's voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons systems since 1988 to include the battle armor for our troops. He also voted to kill all anti terrorism activities of every agency of the U.S.Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%, to cut the funding for the CIA by 80%, and cut the funding for the NSA by 80%.

But then he voted to increase OUR funding for U.N operations by 800%

http://www.rushonline.com/kerry/kerryvotingrecord.htm

Mornin' Gunny, SSGT, ....
When I heard Gov. Richardson make the statement about withdrawal being a leverage, I scratched my head and thought I must be missing something because it just didn't make sense to me.

I am not a military strategist. I have always been willing to leave worrying about it to the people who are on the battlefield and to those who have all the information needed to make those decisions. If we all had all the information they have, then so would the enemy. There are some things that must remain known only to those who need to know, it order to effectively do battle.

The question is, "Why would anyone want to embrace defeat in Iraq, when by all indications that is not the reality on the ground". The motives of those who want to wave the white flag obviously have nothing to do with concern about our troops. The answer is one that I do not like to think about and and one that so many Americans do not see or realize yet.

Congress is in the process of unbalancing the powers of government by trying to limit the power of the President to conduct the war and they are willing to sacrifice the military to do it, by withholding funding for the troops through the mishandling of legislation and by looking for an AG who will indict the President for war crimes related to torture.

The motives of the Congress is much darker and more sinister than any of us want to admit. They are trying to take this representative republic down and replace it with Socialism, while they twist and contort the Constitution to fit their plan.


GunnyG
yo dude, don't you know not to throw facts out there at the libquirts? It makes their collective brain housing groups squirm, dude. Hey, wait a minute, I just saw an Apache fall out of the sky! The troops are okay, though.

GunnyG
Many have known about john (never met a service person I could not diss) skerry-heinz! Is that the right phrase for mrs heinz's Bia-ach?

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Where did I say that?
> you ask me to believe that our troops shot without being shot at? Sorry no can do!<

If you're going to put false words in my mouth, how do you expect to have a mature conversation?

I reiterate. There is denial on both sides, and you have given ample proof of that.



Farmer's Wife
good day to ya! Your points are very valid. Me thinks that people in this country are far to uninformed for their own good. If they won't, don't or can't pay attention to what the left is trying to do, then they will suffer the wrath of communism soon. Not in my backyard, however. I will not stand for it. I gave to many years of my life standing up to communism, and I will not back down to it now. Put that in your bong and smoke it, Hal D.

Spin
>Congress is in the process of unbalancing the powers of government by trying to limit the power of the President to conduct the war and they are willing to sacrifice the military to do it, by withholding funding for the troops through the mishandling of legislation and by looking for an AG who will indict the President for war crimes related to torture.<

That's ridiculous. The Congress is empowered to fund military activities. That is what the balance of powers is all about. Congress does not "look" for an AG, they either confirm or don't confirm, and in this case they confirmed.

Folks and mercenary
This is not about Kerry, Bill Clinton, et. al. This is about what trouble the nation is in. I know conservatism dwells on the past but please try and look ahead not back?

Folks
It is not about Kerry or even Bill Clinton It is about the future and the current regime

Iraq is a complete failure
for the DNC that is! They failed to cut off funds to insure our defeat. They failed to stop the surge which is producing results far beyond anyone's expectations. They failed to vote against Petraus to keep him from engineering this sudden turnaround. Now I know what Harry Reid meant when he said Iraq "is lost". He must have been thinking "for the Democrats".

Its all about
how the left wants to cowar in a corner and pretend that our military is not completing its mission. And of course, Hal, all the folks that you don't want to talk about, are the folks that are, and have been doing what you accuse this current administration of doing, you Blowhard!

GunnyG/Doc/Max/Farmer's Wife
Look!
Up in the sky!
More flying dancing Pigs!
Their doing the Cha Cha now!

Hal D
When the day comes that you have given the time,the money and the support of our military that Rush has then I will respect what you have to say.GOD BLESS AMERICA

Hey SSGT.....
Pigs flying, just the sign I've been waiting for. Better run out and buy a lottery ticket, NOW!


SSGT
"how the left wants to cowar in a corner"

It has not been the moderates and left cowering and living in fear it is you conservative extremists

"and pretend that our military is not completing its mission."

As I said before the military completed its mission long ago. The Bush Regime then just abandoned them in the desert with no plan

"And of course, Hal, all the folks that you don't want to talk about, are the folks that are, and have been doing what you accuse this current administration of doing,"

This is about the future. You are not frightened of the possibility that Osama and Al Q could get nukes? You don't think Pakistan instability and Afghanistan deterioration are more important or as important as Iraq or Iran even with real nukes involved not imaginary ones?

"you Blowhard!"

That make you feel any better little man?

republicans...
ok. now is your chance to prove your ultimate point. suppose iraq turns into a stable democracy due to "the surge". how does that prevent covert operatives to fly planes into buildings or sneak a nuclear weapon across the border in a suitcase? how does it get us any closer to attacking the original al queada, not the fake iraqi based ones?
we are not at war. we are illegally occupying a land that used to be the country of iraq, which we illegally invaded and without a congressional declaration of war. no war means no surrender is possible.

America the beautiful, yea right.
"The surge is working" Wow isn't that wonderful. Is any one "working" to capture Bin Laden? You know, that guy that was responsible for "911". Is any one "working" to stop our pals Saudi Arabia from harboring terrorist in their country? Are Americans aware that half of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudis? Guess not. I guess protecting our oil interest in Saudi Arabia is much more important than protecting our country and soldiers from terrorist.

Oh yea, I forgot, Bush has told us that Iran is trying to acquire a nuclear weapon and that we need to stop them. This sounds dangerously familiar doesn't it? Are we gonna fall for that one again? How about this: Are we actually going to confront the countries that actually HAVE nuclear weapons! Pakistan, India, China, North Korea just to name a few. Or how about shutting down our own nuclear program, you know that little expression, "practice what you preach". You know it's like telling your son not to smoke weed, and then he catches you doing it every day. Why would he listen to you?


No, No, No, let’s use all our money and resources to pick on this little tiny country Iran.Oh yea, we already did that when we overthrew their government in 1953 and when we supported and supplied weapons to SADDAM, AND IRAQ, during the Iran/Iraq war. It seems America has a nasty habit of invading countries that DON'T have nuclear weapons. Wow, I guess it would be smart for the Iranians to get a nuke, that way they can avoid an invasion, by the United States. Makes sense to me.

Our
resident "chickensh*t AF bureaucrat" is using the NY slimes as a reference!

Oh yea, I'll believe a newspaper that hires people like Jayson Blair.

Hey "Chickensh*t", you should reference yourself like you do at HuffPuff!

union dude
"When the day comes that you have given the time,the money and the support of our military that Rush has then I will respect what you have to say."

Well 20 years of active military service doesn't count? WOW although I suspected as much

GOD BLESS AMERICA

SSGt
See what I mean about arguing with an idiot.

HalD: "It is not about Kerry or even Bill Clinton It is about the future and the current regime."

Now is that stupid or what? The moron suffers from BDS and HUA en extremis.

"Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." Seneca.

Oh oh
looks like Der Fuerher takes another one in the tailpipe! HAHA!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/13/student-giv en-question-for-clinton-i-just-want-honesty

Hitlary out, oBLAHma an empty suit, The Breck Girl...BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA! The Three Stooges in the Soros Party.

Max
easy now!

It wasn't just Pelosi
rushing to spin the year long statistics ignoring the moneths representing the Surge. All the MSM spun the same spin. And yet some of our regular left posters have denied media bias over and over. In our family, our busy adult children are so preoccupied in their days, they seldom know what is going on politically. The few times they see a headline is all they know. How many are like them and what does a poll of uninformed people or people who have only seen the spin really mean?

GunnyG
checked out your site! What is going on in my country?
Oh, wait, Hal knows best!

Max Power
"I love it when people like Hal use the typical liberal buzzwords like "regime" when talking about this administration.

It immediately trashes their credibility."

Actually Bush started to use it first and I thought it fit

"So Hal, what are your comments about Fred Thompson's statements regarding what he wants to do with the military? Upset that Hillary didn't say it? "

If it involves fulling funding VA and restoring military healthcare and the GI Bill I love it. I would love to see all candidates do it. I think if you check her site Hillary did it early on

Traitorous
"how does that prevent covert operatives to fly planes into buildings or sneak a nuclear weapon across the border in a suitcase? how does it get us any closer to attacking the original al queada, not the fake iraqi based ones?"

It is starting to have an effect already. Al Qaeda and Bin Laden are very unpopular in Iraq today, and their popularity is declining across the Middle East. This is after all, an ideological struggle. Are you one of those who believe we can actually kill every radical islamist and their supporters?

Max power
"You think Iran getting a nuke is a good idea?"

Of course not, but I also don't trust the United States, Pakistan, India and China to have them either. We have no moral authority. Also the United States has a habit and history of invading countries that don't have nuclear weapons. So the Iranians are just responding logically and defensively.

simple question
what exactly have we won in iraq.

i am grateful that violence and death of americans is down and Gen. petraeus gets some of the credit.

remember that the sunni's started fighting al-quida before the surge.

but what concerns me is that now we have armed both sides and what will the ultimate result be.

bagdad was once 65% sunni and now is 70% shia.
the 3 most powerful men in iraq are clerics.
al-sadr, al-sistani and the head of the badr army.

do you believe that these guys are more interested in democracy and supporting the U.S. after we are gone or establishing a theocracy that leans towards iran.

we have made iraq safe for islamics to control the country and impose sharia law, which is happening in most of the southern provinces.

all the gloating that conservatives are doing does not mask the problem that iraq is returning to tribal and religious rule and that is scary to anyone with any common sense.

Saudi Arabia,Pakistan , Afghanista?????
Why aren't you necons worried about Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Afghanistan more. Our soldiers are dying at the hands of the terrorist that reside in theses countries. You guys just keep repeating "Bush" talking points. Seriously, if you do your own research instead of repeating what the White House says you'll see that these countries are much more a threat to our national security than Iran.

Max Power
It's useless arguing with the idiot. He posts the SAME OLD CRAP about the VA, Bush, etc, TOTALLY ignoring that Clinton raped the military, etc.

He rants about the GI Bill when there's nothing wrong with it! They pay 1200.00 and get over 30K back. Not to mention 30K+ signing bonuses, reenlistment bonuses, etc.

Now I see why the AF kicked the turd to the curb. I can imagine LIGHT colonel "chickensh*t" running a meeting or even worse, a unit.

He wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's a**.

religiouslib
For the past several years, all we have heard is Iraq is a distraction from the real enemy, Al Qaeda. It doesn't matter what happens in Iraq. Now that Al Qaeda has suffered a massive defeat in Iraq and are losing popular support across the Middle East, we are supposed to believe you are suddenly concerned about the future of Iraq. Sure you are.

They ignore it
>bagdad was once 65% sunni and now is 70% shia.
the 3 most powerful men in iraq are clerics.
al-sadr, al-sistani and the head of the badr army.

do you believe that these guys are more interested in democracy and supporting the U.S. after we are gone or establishing a theocracy that leans towards iran.<

The radical right militarists won't be engaged in that conversation, because it isn't based on the "incredible success of the surge" or using Iraq as a platform to villify Democrats in response to the left using Iraq to villify Republicans.

The result is a complete lack of coherent discussion and a disregard of any moderate view.


Anthony Thomas
None of the nations you list have publicly declared their intentions to commit mass murder, except Iran.
Did anything in that sentence tax your ability to reason?

Long before President Bush....
U.S. policy was that Saddam's dictatorship needed to be brought down. Just as someone observing what has happened since 9/11, I think that centering the war in Iraq was a sensible move.

The physical battlefield in Iraq is much more favorable to our military than that of Afghanistan and the desired establishment of a government there that would be an ally right next door to Iran makes sense. It gives us a better vantage point to fight terrorism all over the ME, not to mention keeping the battle far away from our shores.

Unless one believes the President's motives for going to Iraq were based in the desire to bring down America you can't justify wanting to declare defeat.

I for one do not believe that and if we can successfully defeat the defeatists, it will be proven that going to Iraq was the sensible thing to do.


Max power
perhaps you should go to a good dictionary and look up the definition of regime?

apoplectic
"It is starting to have an effect already. Al Qaeda and Bin Laden are very unpopular in Iraq today, and their popularity is declining across the Middle East. This is after all, an ideological struggle. Are you one of those who believe we can actually kill every radical islamist and their supporters?"

george bush is more unpopular. and bin laden isn't in iraq, never has been.
for you to suggest that i think we could kill all radical muslims is ridiculous. for you to think we aren't creating them globally through our actions in iraq is naive.

utahnotmormon
If we skip in Iraq, why WOULDN'T they suck up to Iran?
Ditching them proves to Iraqis that we won't resist Iran either, why should they?

apoplectic
quit stereotyping people.

i have been saying the same thing consistently or many months now.

the al-queda in iraq is not the same as al-queda under osama.
al-queda in iraq was made up of sunnis according to the pentagon and had about 10% foreign fighters .

the REAL al-aqueda is in pakistan and trying to gain control over afganistan and pakistan.


Still no answer
Why aren't you necons worried about Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan much more vehemently???? Why are you guys allowing Bush to deceive you about Iran, like he did Iraq?

Anyone????? I hear crickets.

Airgun
Exactly. HalD and the libturds WANT us to lose in Iraq and Afghanistan SIMPLY to embasrass Bush. I hate Bubba's guts and would not p*ss on him if he was on fire, but I never wished a defeat on the US. How F**KED UP is THAT that the libstains want that to happen?

My country, may she always be right in her intercourse with other nations, but my country, right or wrong!"

Stephen Decatur

GunnyG
First point so everyone knows it: Gunny is a mercenary in Iraq and as such has a personal interest in seeing war continue.

"He posts the SAME OLD CRAP about the VA, Bush, etc, TOTALLY ignoring that Clinton raped the military, etc."

Gunny even if true which it is not that was nearly 7 years ago. Earth to Gunny it is now 2007.

"He rants about the GI Bill when there's nothing wrong with it! They pay 1200.00 and get over 30K back. Not to mention 30K+ signing bonuses, reenlistment bonuses, etc."

Hmm this is the first time I think I mentioned it in any real way and that was in passing. I know you hate to see the military get anything so they can hire more mercenaries but....

"Now I see why the AF kicked the turd to the curb. I can imagine LIGHT colonel "chickensh*t" running a meeting or even worse, a unit.

He wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's a**. "

You really are getting delusional

ApolloSpeaks
"who in their proper mind believes Iran wants nukes to deter invasion?

I do!!!!


"Can Iran become a regional and global power unless it has the bomb?"

Of course they can’t, but they also want to defend themselves from American aggression. You are aware that we overthrew their government in 1953, and that we invade countries that don't have nuclear weapons.

BTW
any stupid libsh8tz who love socialism can check my blog and get a taste of what taxes in socialized countries do to their economy.

No Hal, I DIDN'T reference the NY Slimes!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!

buzzwords...
We've already bought Al-Sistani and Al-Hakim ice cream. It's Al-Sadr that we continue, with media approval, to label a terrorist and anti-American cleric.

Where have the right or the media claimed as a success Al-Sadr's decision to lay down the Mahdi Army's arms and cease attacks against US troops and Iraqi security? Where is the effort to engage Al-Sadr as an important cog in the Iraqi power structure and realize that it's radical elements of the Mahdi Army, with Iranian assistance, that have broken ranks with Al-Sadr?

Max shows a lack of understanding issues by claiming,

>C'mon, come up with something other than the typical liberal talking points and buzzwords...<

This discussion has nothing to do with liberal talking points. That's just a dodge to keep from addressing problems, and a rather immature one as well.

Max Power
"Don't even try it.

Everybody knows what you liberals mean when you use that word to describe this administration."

Oh really? Well as hard as it probably is for you and the limbaughs to admit, words do have actual meanings. Real understood definitions. Regime happens to be one of those words.

"Can you be honest for just 5 minutes, or is your BS genetic??"

It is I sir who am precisely honest. I even suggested you go to a dictionary

The Crawfish
observed on his blog:

Lacking
Ideals
Bravery
Ethics
Respect
Loyalty
Sh*theads

Traitorous
"george bush is more unpopular. and bin laden isn't in iraq, never has been."

It is always about George Bush with you libs. Talk about naive. Al Qaeda and Bin Laden's support is dropping across the Middle East because of Iraq. It has nothing to do with how popular or unpopular Bush is. Al Qaeda made a huge strategic error in Iraq and have suffered a massive defeat. To believe they are benefiting from it is truly naive.

Hal D
Hey Hal

Did your KKK business cards have a picture of Robert "Sheets" Byrd on them as your mascot/logo???

Why won't you answer this simple question you shiite for brains.

I see you are referencing the NYT again. Will you never learn?





HalD
"First point so everyone knows it: Gunny is a mercenary in Iraq and as such has a personal interest in seeing war continue."

Stealing other people's lines again huh? More proof you can't think for yourself.

Actually, if we left today, no big deal, in fact, as long as Iraq is secure, I'd be HAPPY to leave. You see colonel chickensh*t, wait, you got passed over, LIGHT colonel chickensh*t, I'm of the breed that don't leave until the job is done and done right.

Don't you have to rub the Perfumed Prince's feet? Maybe you can soothe one another's feelings about getting SH*TCANNED! haha.

H*ll hath no wrath like a chicksh*t AF bureaucrat scorned!


Bman3
Well, you know, he gets confused referencing HIMSELF on HuffPuff!

HAHA.

max power
talking points----sorry i think for myself and don't need talking points.
it is the the right wing talk show who get called to the white house every couple months to get thier marching orders.

the get their talking points faxed to them on a daily basis from the white house.
that is why they all sound alike.

finally, to answer your rational question, we have to make the best of a bad situation because this war was fought so incompetently up till now we have to bring in othere countries (particularly arab allies of ours) to help set up the government agencies and begin re-constructing the country.
we have to win hearts and minds.



Repub Albatross: Iraq War & Prez Bush
Repubs/cons continue to try and beat a dead horse back to life in the form of the Iraq War. The vast majority of americans long ago soured on Prez Bush and his handling of the bungled affair, which has uneccessarily cost american soldiers lives and done absolutely nothing to "make the U.S. safer" as his supporter suggest.

Poll after major poll shows the depths of the unpopularity of Prez Bush and his Iraq War with the american public. Republican Prez candidates should be aware that continued support to "stay the course to victory"(whatever that means) will be political suicide and a assured democratic victory in elections 08, with dems taking the whitehouse and maintaining cotrol of Congress. the american people want Bush's debacle in Iraq to be over. with dems controlling the white house and congress it soon will be.


religiouslib
"the al-queda in iraq is not the same as al-queda under osama."

You're splitting hairs. Of course the majority of AQI are Iraqi's but they share the same ideology as the Al Qaeda under Bin Hiden. It is that ideology which has been rejected in Iraq. It is that ideology that we are fighting against. It is the reason that killing Bin Laden tomorrow would not bring us victory. It amazes me how you and the majority of the left cannot comprehend that.

How about a....
regime change in congress!

Hal, others et.al.
Robert A. Heinlien said it best in "Starship Troopers" :If you want to teach a baby a lesson, would you spank it with an axe?
The reason we use troops instead of bombs is to prevent, repeat prevent collateral casualties.
Not sending troops now will require a nuclear response to a nuclear threat.
We are in Iraq because we didn't need to ask permission from the UN to invade, we never signed Armistice after the first GW.
You may not have minded getting shafted and shot at daily by Saddam, but those in govt. since 1991 thought letting Hussein give the world the finger for twelve years was a terrible way to show unity and strength to the enemies of peace.
When President Bush gave his SOTUS on the axis of evil, Iraq was the first nation listed- not by accident.
From a purely military standpoint, having troops in Iraq and Afghanistan gives us infinitly greater leverage in negotiation with the Ahmanajihad\mullahcracy govt. of Iran.
Without simply sitting on our hands until annihilation is the only remaining option.

apoplectic
at least you admit al-queda in iraq is made up of a majority of sunni iraqis.

i will give you credit for intellectual honesty my friend.

once the tactics used by foreign al-quieda terrorists was witnessed by iraqis they backed away from the foreigners.
we did not kill them or defeat them they simply went back to their tribes.

i ask again though what is this victory going to bring us.

al-sistani has refused to talk to an american since the beginning of the war.
al-sadr although quiet now is simply waiting for the surge to decline and hakim is turning the south into a taliban like state.

Bman
got that name change thing going again, huh? I've been gone a few days, but I wish I could have read the one that did it! hahaha

Palmtree
Where do we sign up!?

Also, what is the ROE for any libs we capture? haha.

max power
first "up till now" means i agree progress is being made on suppressing the violence, you are so busy looking for negative comments you can't see a positive one when you see it.

i did not imply our troops had failed they have indeed fought bravely and courageously but exactly how long did you support rumsfeld and the stay the course rhetoric.

did american soldiers die needlessly becaue conservatives refused to criticize bush and rumsfeld and called those who did unpatriotic.

generally,
the american people have make up their mind on this war and want us out regarless of the progress being made because they see the same thing i do.
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

the al-malaki government is irrelevant and the country is being controlled by clerics who want to have a theocracy.

how is that in american interest.

Hey LIBS
Any of you think that you can do it better, the State Dept is looking for advisors to work in the reconstruction and rebuilding of Iraq. Or maybe just come work for the GOI!

Sign up or STFU!

The surge is working?

The 30000 man increase in US forces has apparently succeeded in reducing US casualties as well as Iraqi casualties.

Why are the right wing idiots now equating progress with success?

Are 40 American KIAs a month acceptable losses for those same idiots? Why?

Are 300 murdered Iraqis an acceptable toll?

Great progress. Keep up the good work.

You're doing a heck of a job.






Max power
"Besides not knowing a thing about history"

What have I said this is historically inaccurate?

"why do you hate this country so much?"

I don't hate this country, I just happen to love the truth.

"You are clearly unhinged, hinting that we should decalre war on our allies."

So a country (Saudi Arabia) that is harboring half of the terrorist that are currently killing our solders in Iraq, and that harbored the men responsible for 911 is an ally? Clearly, I'm not the one unhinged.

"Typical whacko scribble. Deflect from whatever progress is being made in Iraq while throwing around words like "neocon"."

I'm not deflecting anything; I'm talking about our countries national security. Are you concerned about that? Isn't that what Iraq is supposed to be about? What is "whacko scribble"? What have I said that is factually incorrect or "whacko" as you said. Please, I beg you, do your own research and stop repeating Bush/Limbaugh/O'reilly talking points. They’re not facts.

religiouslib
question:
Have you spoken with any military member that has returned from Iraq?

GunnyG liar
"Don't you have to rub the Perfumed Prince's feet? Maybe you can soothe one another's feelings about getting SH*TCANNED! haha.

H*ll hath no wrath like a chicksh*t AF bureaucrat scorned! "

Liar, Gotcha huh? LOL

Max
you asked Anthony Thomas this:
"why do you hate this country so much?"

Anthony Thomas's response was this:
"I don't hate this country, I just happen to love the truth."

My response to Max:
I wonder how he feels about this country, cause its clear he has nothing good to say about it. Give them enough rope!

Umm, Anthony?
Saudi Arabia never harbored OBL; he's been outcast since the 80's.
Get it right.

Airgun
"None of the nations you list have publicly declared their intentions to commit mass murder, except Iran"


Jesus Christ. HAHHAH. Nooo, but they harbored the terrorist that committed "911", and they currently harbor half of the terrorist that bomb our soldiers in Iraq. I think they're a little bit relevant don't you? Action speaks louder than words, don't you think? As I have stated to other posters, do your own research and please stop repeating Bush/O'reilly/Limbaugh talking points. They are not facts.

religiouslib
"once the tactics used by foreign al-quieda terrorists was witnessed by iraqis they backed away from the foreigners.
we did not kill them or defeat them they simply went back to their tribes."

No, Al Qaeda tried to enforce their radical form of islam on the iraqi's and the Iraqi's rejected their ideology and turned on them. They didn't back away, they began killing Al Qaeda. It was a total rejection of everything Al Qaeda stands for and is trying to accomplish. It is a much more significant defeat than they suffered in Afghanistan because it was at the hands of Sunni Muslims.

GunnyG
Gunny:

Just remember that Hal Doofus is working hard to impress the Dumbbuttcrap candidates, so he can be appointed SECKISSASS.

ssgt
as a matter of fact i live in san diego and have spoken with marines from pendleton, some support my position some support yours.

most of them hated rumsfeld with a passion so they feel like things are better but the deployments are really wearing on their families.

apoplectic
you say no but that is what happened.
the sunnis saw what the foreigners were doing and chose their tribes over the outside forces.

i am more concerned with the south right now where most of the cities are being run by sharia law.

Airgun
"Saudi Arabia never harbored OBL"


Half of the terrorist murdering our soldiers in Iraq are Saudis! I really pray you know this. Also, the men responsible for "911" were also Saudis; I'm on my knees praying you know that! Why is this unimportant to you?

religiouslib
"the sunnis saw what the foreigners were doing and chose their tribes over the outside forces."

See, now you're contradicting yourself. You just emphatically made the point that the majority of AQI was Iraqi's. Is it your contention that those AQI turned on themselves? The Sunni's aren't only killing foreign Al Qaeda, they are killing Iraqi Al Qaeda as well. Even members of their own tribes.

Max power
"Give me one, just one reasonable solution to our problems with islamic terrorists."

I'll give you four

1. Confront Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan about the terrorist they harbor in their country. (Bin Laden is currently in Pakistan)

2. Stop wasting our tax dollars and military to wage war with countries like Iraq and Iran that impose no immediate threat.

3. Secure the borders.


Very simple. Too simple for Bush though.

Max power
Sorry , i meant three.

Anthony Thomas writes:
Half of the terrorist murdering our soldiers in Iraq are Saudis! I really pray you know this. Also, the men responsible for "911" were also Saudis; I'm on my knees praying you know that! Why is this unimportant to you?

So I guess your solution is to invade Saudi Arabia.

Max/GunnyG liar/Ssgt/apoplectic
Why do YOU hate this country? You are helping disarm the military and country. You are ignoring the constitutional balance of powers. I can understand why a mercenary wants the country destroyed and at constent war but why do others?

Max power
"So what do you want to do?

"Attack Saudi Arabia?"

"Attack Pakistan?"


Well we attacked Iraq, and we're preparing to take action against Iran. You don't seem to have a problem with that.

But I'm no war promoter. I want us to come up with a comprehensive plan that includes assertive diplomacy, sanctions and as a last resort, military action to confront these countries. And we have to stop Bush from deflecting from these very complicated issues, because he's not competent enough to solve them

Anthony Thomas
You didn't dispute me, what's your point?
How much do you know about Arab culture?
Have you ever heard of tribal sanctuary?
Do you know that the villages OBL hides in have never been conquered in human history?
Because OBL is Saudi, all Saudis are terrorists?
Your bias is showing, to put it mildly.

Max power
First, it's "pose".


Please! I don't need you to correct me on my grammar. I don't think there is a person on here that hasn't had a typo from time to time.

Hal Donahue
Why do you think the Backstabbing Boys Kerry and Murtha, Land Deal Reid, San Fran Nan, Taxman Charlie Rangel, Dingbat Dingell, the Wicked Witch of Chappaqua, Braindead Obama, et al give two sh!ts about anything other than power?

hunch
I have a sneaking hunch hal is another phoney soldier.

religiuoslib
Im more concerned about this country right now with it being run by COWARDS AND TRAITORS like you LIBTURDS. Retrest and surrender is you DUMBOCRAPS motto. Hell even HITLERY is trying to stack the decks with planted ????????S.

Hal
Don't call me a liar. Gray Ghost did the footwork. Guess you didn't impress your coworkers or bosses very well.

Too bad. Nice to know the system weeded you out.

max power
you obvioulsly did not read your own link.
it also says foreign fighters are from saudi arabia.

here is another source

Although Bush administration officials have frequently lashed out at Syria and Iran, accusing it of helping insurgents and militias here, the largest number of foreign fighters and suicide bombers in Iraq come from a third neighbor, Saudi Arabia, according to a senior U.S. military officer and Iraqi lawmakers.

About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.

Fighters from Saudi Arabia are thought to have carried out more suicide bombings than those of any other nationality, said the senior U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the subject's sensitivity. It is apparently the first time a U.S. official has given such a breakdown on the role played by Saudi nationals in Iraq's Sunni Arab insurgency.

He said 50% of all Saudi fighters in Iraq come here as suicide bombers. In the last six months, such bombings have killed or injured 4,000 Iraqis.

Max Power
"You're the one that hates America. Everything you post is as un-American as it gets."

Really? torture, spying on our own citizens, preaching fear.... nope those are all yours and they are unAmerican

"No where does anyone say they want to destroy the country, except you when you push Hillary's agenda."

Hillary right now is the best person to help rebuild the country, restore integrity to government and rebuild our economy

"That is a direct attempt to destroy America and everything it stands for. "

See the stand for is where you folks so lose it. The country does not and never has stood for fundamentalist conservatism and never has stood for living in fear. You fooled the people once but for you deadbeats it is now over - into the dustbin of history you go. That probably explains a lot of the personal attacks and growing lack of reason - fear combined with the realization.....

Max Power
GIT EM! haha.

HalD is obviously insane. Maybe THAt is why the AF sh*tcanned him.

He "claims" that he is PRO military and then works for Hanoi John Fonda-Kerry. A guy who the commies in VN have a spot in their MUSEUM for!

A guy who wrote off the POWs/MIAs like they were nothing.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0408,schanberg,51276,1.htm l

REFERENCE THAT on HuffPuff HalD!

Going to chow mates. Keep punching these libs. Eventually they'll get dumber than they already are!

Max power
Who is Alan B. Krueger???? And when did he become an objective source for what's going on in Iraq?

religiouslib
Thank you. Didn't really have time to do it myself.

chuck
if you are unwilling or unable to have a civil discourse then why post.

LOLOLOLOLOL!
Idiot Donohue mewls: "Hillary right now is the best person to help rebuild the country, restore integrity to government and rebuild our economy."

Yeah, she sure does have a lot domestic budgetary skills. How many businesses did she run? How many State budgets did she oversee? What fanatasic piece of infrastructure has she secured for NY state?

Integrity?

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA! I've got one word for you stupid:

Hsu.
Wait. I KNOW why you like her. She flip-flops on issues like your boy Hanoi John does.

She was FOR illegal's getting licenses before she was AGAINST iot but now she's FOR it but maybe she'll rethink it.

If you were like this on active-duty, I'm surprised you made it past 2d LT. The Corps would have surveyed YOU like dirty linen.

Max power
"I was refuting Anthony's assertion that the majority of forein insurgents were from Saudi Arabia, which they are not"


I never said that! I said half. Here I'll post it again:

"Half of the terrorist murdering our soldiers in Iraq are Saudis! I really pray you know this. Also, the men responsible for "911" were also Saudis"


1242.pm

Max power
"Man, get over yourself!!"


You're probably right. I need to take a break. I don't like to be personal or mean. My apologies. I meant that.

max power
thank you for being intellecutally hones and civil in your responses.
i am not sure what to do about the clerics either.

it is something the bush adminsistrtion did not seem to take into account because saddam ruled from a secular point of view

i think they thought that the country itself was more secular that it really is.

al-sistani, al- maliki and hakim all have close ties to iran and lived there in exile from saddam at one point or another.

that is why i am worried about the after math of the surge.

we can win militarily but lose to the clerics as far as what type of country iraq becomes.


i do know that we need to show more concern for putting the country back together than we have so far.


GunnyG
just wanted to let you know your piece on the 232nd Marine Corps B-day was excellent! I had to read it twice. Hal should read it, but alas, I think he would wet himself!

Max Power
"Gee Hal, you're right! Americans never tortured the enemy before we invaded Iraq! "

See there we go again. That is not what I said is it. Never before has torture been national policy.

"As for the "spying on our own citizens", name one instance of this that has had any effect on anything. "

LMAO that says it all. LOL

Hal D
Why do YOU hate this country? You are helping disarm the military and country. You are ignoring the constitutional balance of powers. I can understand why a mercenary wants the country destroyed and at constent war but why do others?

I'm laughing so hard I don't where to begin. This is just another example of liberals thinking with emotion rather than the value of any intellect. Can you prove your about statement? I'd sure like to see it..You know may be smart (I'm using the term loosely) but your sure good at stupid.
BTW I noticed the link you had posted above. I'm not going to sign up to read editorals from the NY Slimes which doesn't have any credability to begin with.

GunnyG Liar
"Too bad. Nice to know the system weeded you out. "

Lie after lie after lie LMAO who would expect more I guess from my little mercenary

sheepdog
"BTW I noticed the link you had posted above. I'm not going to sign up to read editorals from the NY Slimes which doesn't have any credability to begin with."

Not editorial at all just proof air force fighters are disentagrating in mid air. Look it up in your media then. I prefer to use newspapers of record.


Sigh...where to start.
There have been so many idiotic comments on this board today that I don't know where to begin - so I'll just pick one that particularly irks me:

Anthony Thomas, you wrote:

"1. Confront Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan about the terrorist they harbor in their country. (Bin Laden is currently in Pakistan)

2. Stop wasting our tax dollars and military to wage war with countries like Iraq and Iran that impose no immediate threat.

3. Secure the borders."

These are not solutions. These are not actions. How, exactly, do you want to confront Saudi Arabia? Should we whine at them? Attack them?

This is typical liberal "arguing." You can take a bullet point and call it action.

No Hillary in 2008
"Hillary right now is the best person to help rebuild the country, restore integrity to government and rebuild our economy"

No she's not!!! I'm a liberal, and I don't want Hillary Clinton to be president. She's a liar, an opportunist, and is just as responsible for the Iraq war as Bush. She talks on both sides of her mouth. She's completely ambiguous about her political positions. I have no idea what the woman truly stands for. I'm praying that more liberals start to see her for the phony that she is. We don't need another divisive figure in the oval office in 2008; our country faces too many challenges.

Too be honest, Ron Paul represents the true balance we need in 2008. His foreign policy is in line with liberals, and his fiscal policy is in line with conservatives. He seems like a fair choice. Republicans just have to give him a chance

Anthony Thomas
finally writes something I totally agree with:
"No she's not!!! I'm a liberal, and I don't want Hillary Clinton to be president. She's a liar, an opportunist, and is just as responsible for the Iraq war as Bush. She talks on both sides of her mouth. She's completely ambiguous about her political positions. I have no idea what the woman truly stands for. I'm praying that more liberals start to see her for the phony that she is."

Here here!

max power
right back at you

by the way i got the saudi thing from a website called world threat.com but there are numerous accounts like that.
i believe but i can't source it that i heard one of the generals make that same statement in front of congresss during hearings.

i will try to find it.

i am with you, i am not sure what the answer is with the clerics.

i suppose we could tie finacial aid to some sort of democratic institutional progress but like in palestine i am afraid that iraqis will vote the way their clerics tell them or simply for whoever is most against us.

that is why (without sounding unpatriotic) i try to keep reminding people that security and military progress is great but that is not the root of the problem.

Max power
"Suggesting that 9/11 was our own fault or that we deserved it is not something I want in a leader."

But that's not what he said. That's how Giuliani and the conservative media who hate him span it. What he said was that our foreign policy over a number of years has lead to what the CIA calls "blowback" and that we have to be very careful about the actions we take over sees because they have repercussions. That's all, that's just basic logic.

another liberal against hillary
i have maintained for a year now that i could not and would not support hillary.

the only republican i could support and would vote for over hillary is huckabee.

obama had a great weekend on meet the press and a speech at the jefferson and jackson(founders of the the democratic party )dinner in iowa.

he called for a uniting of red and blue america and spoke with passion and clarity.

Anthony Thomas
"But I'm no war promoter. I want us to come up with a comprehensive plan that includes assertive diplomacy, sanctions and as a last resort, military action to confront these countries."

As a conservative, I have to agree with some of your assessments of Iran and its motives for acquiring nukes. I do think their motivations have been prompted by our meddlesome foreign policy over in the middle east and especially Iraq. I have one sincere question....It appears your tough stance above on Saudi Arabia is disingenuous. One way or another, stirring multiple hornets nest isn't going to get Bush any admiration awards from any of you liberals any time soon. Any comment? It is also Ron Paul who would like to expand refining capacity, and open the gulf and Anwar to oil exploration....not sure that is going to win a lot of liberal hearts, certainly of the Al Gore camp, either.

religious lib
Why not Ron Paul?

Max Power
"never before have terrorists flown planes into buildings and killed 3000 people who's only crime was to show up for work that day. How much does Al Quiada pay you to defend them??"

No but we have been invaded by a foreign army and our capital burnt; we have been torn apart by civil war, we have gone thru two world Wars and a cold war where we could have been incinerated many times over and never, never did we even consider using torture - it took Fundamentalist Conservatives mired in total fear to do that. I will say again I think the only reason we have not been attacked again is because we are doing everything they want us to

"You're probably one of those dolts that sits around and thinks that there's a black van parked on every street with the CIA in it."

Not at all those are your guys LOL Amazing response did you ever learn about freedom amd liberty? Talk about living in fear... LMAO

heresyarch
ron paul is interesting and i could support many of his policies as i lean libertarian but he simply does not inspire me and i am looking for a complete change away from the politics as it has been played the last 16 years.

Max Power writes....
"I never thought that people stuck in the dark ages would accept our brand of democracy. Much less be able to comprehend it."

Bingo. And you have to wonder why we are using debt funded tax payer dollars to fund something that cannot work. the metrics of "the surge is working" is great.....for the short run. Long run after we leave (if we ever leave) is another matter.

Many die hard Islamisist see us imposing our values on them. The values that many of them view could bring Brittany Spears, and [fill in the blank ] gangsta rap music. Rather than be in bondage to the wrath of Allah, I think they will prefer the next dictator.

Hal Doofus
Hal, still trying to get that appointment as SECKISSASS?

BTW, I noticed that you never answered my question about all your cut and run military hating, tax everything that moves, spend more on non-woking programs Dumbbuttcrap leaders,.

Max/Anthony Thomas/religiouslib
"Who ever it is, republican or democrat, I just pray that they have the best interests of the country in mind and are qualified to make the right decisions."

Have you folks even looked at Hillary and her website

religious lib
"ron paul is interesting and i could support many of his policies as i lean libertarian but he simply does not inspire me and i am looking for a complete change away from the politics as it has been played the last 16 years."

Well, for certain he would be a change.

Speaking for myself, as fir inspiration, the last thing I want is another slick used car salesman, or a confused conflicted compassionate conservative.

Max Power
"Are you actually saying that we've never used torture in our entire history?!?!?!?"

As "national policy" no we have not. Has torture happened? You bet was it national policy no.

"As for freedom and liberty, freedom isn't free, but phony soldiers like yourself never pick up that tab. You're too busy whining about how you got that freedom."

Ahhh there we go right to the heart of it - just like Limbaugh you don't like the soldier you attack him call him phony etc. You going to compare me to a suicide bomber next?

"For an old man, you have a lot of growing up to do. "

Well 60 may be old but I am not gone nor will I abandon the country to extremists like so many that appear here

heresyarch writes:
Many die hard Islamisist see us imposing our values on them. The values that many of them view could bring Brittany Spears, and [fill in the blank ] gangsta rap music. Rather than be in bondage to the wrath of Allah, I think they will prefer the next dictator.

And many of them want to impose their way of life on the world. What's worse, in your view?

heresyarch
...."It appears your tough stance above on Saudi Arabia is disingenuous. One way or another, stirring multiple hornets nest isn't going to get Bush any admiration awards from any of you liberals any time soon. Any comment?"

I don't know if it would get him any admiration, (Nothing he does at this point would do that). But it would definitely be the right thing to do. Now I don't think we should go and invade the country or even threaten such actions. But our leaders have to start having some serious talks with them about the terrorist they are harboring in their country.

All we hear about is Iran, Iran, Iran. But nobody is talking about Saudi Arabia, nor are we talking about Bin Laden being in Pakistan. Can at the least, we start talking about these things. And stop pretending they don't exist

Hal Doofus writes:
Have you folks even looked at Hillary and her website

Yes Courtney, aka SECKISSASS waannabe, I have, and all I can say is that I am glad it was well beween meals when I did.


Lumberjack7392
"And many of them want to impose their way of life on the world. What's worse, in your view?"

Both are bad if done by force.

Does this imply that you believe we should use force? Should we conquer the middle east before they conquer us? Genocide?

How about a sensible policy of denying Muslims Visas to our nation? Tough luck if they are "peaceful"....

max power
edwards is the way to go. barak obama is an empty suit with good speaking skills. hillary is...unpleasant, let's just say that. her laugh alone is enough to vote for edwards. once you make you way past the superficial attacks on-get this- how good looking he is you will see he is the best on all the issues.
and we have a history of adhering to the geneva conventions. surely you have heard the reports of former nazi soldiers who would fight the russians to the last man but would surrender to american forces because of how much better they would be treated by the americans. and this was wwII, they dealt with alot more prisoners than we do today all of which were guilty because they were in the military. today we round up unarmed combatants, or civilians, we never can be sure.

Anthony Thomas....
Well, the trust you place in Bush to start those kinds of things and to be effective is pretty amazing. I still favor a much more hands off approach to foreign policy. Don't meddle, no foreign aid to prop up these regimes, seek friendly trading conditions, perhaps even we can export a few Brittany Spears albums. :-).

Max Power
"Yes I have, and I just don't believe her."

Can't help you there. What I find fascinating is the moderate D and R is where her support seems to be coming. Left or right extremes oppose her

"Also, you never once answered my question: What has she ever done to convince you that she is qualified to lead the most powerful nation on the planet? "

She has spent a lot of years at the center of power, she is a US Senator from NY always a test to win. Her policies show she is capable. Looking at a well qualified D slate she is the best candidate. The R's offer nothing

Hal Donahue
Yes, and what's on there conflicts with her voting record. How easily we liberals forget that Hillary voted to give the president authority (along with other complicit members of congress) to go to war with Iraq. She saw the same fraudulent intelligence that Bush did and still voted to give him the authority to go to war. Why would she do this? I'll tell you why: Because it was politically expedient for her at the time. She didn't want to be considered anti American or unpatriotic. Not only that, she refuses to apologize for it.

Now after criticizing Bush for his incompetence for 4 years, she gives him the authority to go to war with Iran. What??????

No other Democratic presidential hopeful voted for that Iran resolution but Hillary. Why would she do that? A bigger question is what liberal would do this. But Hillary voting for the Iran resolution is an obvious political and disingenuous attempt to "appear" tough on terrorism so she can get elected by the general public in 2008. That’s dishonorable to me, putting our brave military men in the harms way, all so she can get elected. Sorry Hal,not voting for her.

heresyarch writes
Both are bad if done by force.

Does this imply that you believe we should use force? Should we conquer the middle east before they conquer us? Genocide?

How about a sensible policy of denying Muslims Visas to our nation? Tough luck if they are "peaceful"....

No to the first, and second questions.

I agree with you on the last question. Unfortunately CAIR, the American Criminal Lovers Association (ACLU), and other "rights" groups would bring suit in Federal Court in front of a good liberal Clinton Appointee, and that very sensible policy would get flushed down the toilet.

Hal Doofus writes:
Can't help you there. What I find fascinating is the moderate D and R is where her support seems to be coming. Left or right extremes oppose her

"Also, you never once answered my question: What has she ever done to convince you that she is qualified to lead the most powerful nation on the planet? "

She has spent a lot of years at the center of power, she is a US Senator from NY always a test to win. Her policies show she is capable. Looking at a well qualified D slate she is the best candidate. The R's offer nothing

Then explain why most poll, Zogby, Gallup, Roper, Quinippiac, etc all show that 45-49% of either voters or likely voters will NOT vote for her.
Her policies just explain that she is like any other Dumbbuttcrap raise taxes on everyone and everything, spend more money on failed programs, detest the military.

Hal D
Not editorial at all just proof air force fighters are disentagrating in mid air. Look it up in your media then. I prefer to use newspapers of record.

I didn't read the link for obvious reasons but since there was nothing in any of the other newspapers like the USA Today about planes disinigrating I seriously doubt what you have to say is true. I'm privy to alot of information about that kind of stuff and the only thing I know is that there are problems with the F-15.
I think whoever wrote the story knows the problem and strethed it out to make it look like planes were just falling from the sky.
Nice try though.


Max Power
"What do you mean "national policy"?? that's such a bogus expression."

No it is not at all. Policy shows the values of the nation. Tr says it best: "surely you have heard the reports of former nazi soldiers who would fight the russians to the last man but would surrender to american forces because of how much better they would be treated by the americans. and this was wwII, they dealt with alot more prisoners than we do today all of which were guilty because they were in the military. "

Torture is for the stupid and weak simple. Oh yes and the lazy. And guess what it does not work.

"If torture was ok with you way back when, why not now...oh, wait a republican is in the White House so it must be bad now...give me a break."

TORTURE WAS NEVER OK with me then or now

"And by your own words you bash the soldier that uses torture on the bad guys, thereby refusing to do what it takes. hence, you are a phony soldier..."

That soldier is a criminal that is simple

"And abandon America to extremists?? How narcisistic of you! just because no one here "thinks" like you, you label us extremists?"

Not all I said like so many here. I did not say all. I stand by that comment


Lumberjack7392
"I agree with you on the last question. Unfortunately CAIR, the American Criminal Lovers Association (ACLU), and other "rights" groups would bring suit in Federal Court in front of a good liberal Clinton Appointee, and that very sensible policy would get flushed down the toilet."

Well, then, it would be an impasse. We can't conquer, and kill, and we can't restrict entrance.....well, not so fast.

We can secure our borders, and we can apply political pressure to heavily limit Muslims entrance to our nation.....CAIR notwithstanding...if we have the right leadership to explain to the American people why. its not internment, but it is preventative, and its not meddlesome.

BTW, all peaceful policies discussed advocated by none other than Ron Paul.

max power
all of the republican candidates are children of fortune. born elitists.
edwards, as we all know by now, grew up the son of a millworker (whose job has probably been sent long ago to mexico or china under the cover of "free" trade) to become, as you suggest, very wealthy. he did so as a consumer rights attorney. he looks out for the little guy, the least among us if you will. that is important for a person of great power. ask jesus.

Thanks for nothing Limbaugh
The only group of people who ever had anything sensible to say about Iraq were Conservatives -- and I mean real Conservatives. Not neocons like this clown Limbaugh or democrats.

Lulls in voilence in Iraq within a given area of the country happen because one of the warring factions has consolidated their postion there, and the other factions are not interested in contesting the territory at this time.

That hardly means there is a Shiite government that the Kurds and Sunnis will join of their own free will.

Some of these neocon “experts”, like Limbaugh, need to plug the term illiberal democracy into the google search box and do some reading.



Anthony Thomas
"A bigger question is what liberal would do this. But Hillary voting for the Iran resolution is an obvious political and disingenuous attempt to "appear" tough on terrorism so she can get elected by the general public in 2008."

I understand your concerns and respect them but I offer you she is not a liberal she is a moderate. She has also repeatedly said that was NOT authorizatiion for war. Would I have voted that way no but she did. I do not want anyone ever again who loses sight of reality and will not change. I will take a waffler like Reagan or Kerry don't give me another Carter or Bush.

"Sorry Hal,not voting for her."

That is your call but you are at least listening to her


traitorous republicans writes:
max power
all of the republican candidates are children of fortune. born elitists.
edwards, as we all know by now, grew up the son of a millworker (whose job has probably been sent long ago to mexico or china under the cover of "free" trade) to become, as you suggest, very wealthy. he did so as a consumer rights attorney. he looks out for the little guy, the least among us if you will. that is important for a person of great power. ask jesus.

Little Johhny of $1200 haircut fame, made his fortune suing so many doctors for malpractice to the point that in some parts of NC you can't find OB/GYN, neurosurgeons or orthopedic surgeons, and winning by "channelling" a fetus in a summation.
Little Johnny really cares about the little guy.

Hal Doofus writes:
I understand your concerns and respect them but I offer you she is not a liberal she is a moderate. She has also repeatedly said that was NOT authorizatiion for war. Would I have voted that way no but she did. I do not want anyone ever again who loses sight of reality and will not change. I will take a waffler like Reagan or Kerry don't give me another Carter or Bush.

"Sorry Hal,not voting for her."

That is your call but you are at least listening to her

Hillary is about as moderate in her leftist political views as was Trotsky.

“… best interest of the country in mind…

Well, that certainly DISqualifies HELLary!!!

On a good day she’s a socialist! The rest of the time she’s a Marxist. That not somebody who has the best interest of the country in mind.

Then we have her socialized health care problem, and of course like any good liberal, there isn’t a tax that she doesn’t love and is more than eager to make us pay.

As far as qualifications? Again, HELLary is DISqualified!

I’m not a big fan of Romney, but he stated it very well:

“… the greatest drawback beyond the direction she'd take us is that she's never run anything. She's never had the occasion of being in the private sector, running a business, or, for that matter, running a state or a city. She hasn't run anything, and the government of the United States is not a place for a president to be an intern…”


Actually, that also explains osama obama...




heresyarch/lumberjack
"We can secure our borders, and we can apply political pressure to heavily limit Muslims entrance to our nation.....CAIR notwithstanding...if we have the right leadership to explain to the American people why. its not internment, but it is preventative, and its not meddlesome."

WOW and then what will we do for professors and medical doctors and engineers? Many of those were educated by their countries and come here to work. We can't train enough American's because a good education costs lots and I hear on TH it is socialism for the state to help them



max power
"Am I OK with torture? Not really, but what do I know about interrogating a terrorist? What do you know about it? Nothing. So leave it to the professionals of which you are not one."


- torture is illegal max. that is what i know about interrogating a terrorist. the whole civilized world agrees on it. water boarding is torture. german and japanese soldiers were convicted of water boarding after wwII and everyone in the u.s. thought it was torture then.
the fact that john mccain, bird-brain warhawk that he is, is opposed to torturing prisoners speaks volumns. he knows a bit about interrogation and torture.

traitorous republicans writes
"he did so as a consumer rights attorney. he looks out for the little guy"

You can't be serious..In one of Edwards cases, he convinced a jury that a doctor gave her child cerebal palsy which of course isn't true becuase it's hereditary. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he sweet talked the jury into believing it was all the doctors fault. That's how he gets millions. Not looking after the little guy but only for himself.

Max Power
"Mitt Romney led Mass."

A liberal state and he pushed liberal programs now he is recanting it all. You believe him? He said his son is serving his country by helping Mitt campaign rather than being in the military


"Rudy led the most important city in the world."

And I am told the NYC FD would be hard put to man a vehicle to respond to a fire at his place. Didn't Hillary beat him once already? How popular is Hillary in NYC?

"They know what it means to lead."

If they truly do then Hillary looks even better when compared to them


Hal Doofus writes:
WOW and then what will we do for professors and medical doctors and engineers? Many of those were educated by their countries and come here to work. We can't train enough American's because a good education costs lots and I hear on TH it is socialism for the state to help them

Given the reputation that Muslim doctors, engineers, etc have acquired over he past year or so for supprting and participating in terrorist acts, I have no problem keeping them out.

BTW, if college is so expensive, why are more Americans attending college than ever?

Watch out Lefties...

There is a "Serious Undercurrent" flowing through America... Honest Americans have had their fill of "Global Warming" and "America is the Devil". The rage is building... and the Democrats had better be ready to run for cover.

'08 will be a landslide for Republicans.

max power
mitt is the richest (most elite) candidate in the race. giuliani is hated by new yorkers. most people speculate he didn't run for senator against hillary is because he knew he would lose. as mayor, he helped clean up the city by arresting homeless people (and incarcerating them on my dime) and is blamed by the nyfd for many of the deaths of the firefighters that day.

sheepdog
I'm no Edwards fan, but if you're going to attack him on his case record, stick to the facts. CP is not a hereditary disease. There are genetic conditions which may leave a child predisposed to brain abnormality, but that is not the direct cause of the CP. Premature birth, head injury during birth or in the first few months of life, and infection are the typical culprits. I don't know the specifics of the case you cite, but using that evidence to call the guy a fraud seems misguided to me.

hiltlery
Hitlery ought to be looking and sounding good when her team puts rats in the audiance with the proper questions to ask just wait for the WINK. Hell I could look good and sound good if I did that, but I wouldnt put myself that LOW and you LIBS want her as president. I know what you really want and that is to get BILLY(THS SACUD ) CLINTOON back in office. Now that woiuld be a sight to see. Bill running around the WORLD making MILLION dollar speeches bashing AMERICA. WOW I said that.

What should we do?
I've read all the heated debate about terrorism, Iraq, Iran, etc., ad nauseum. The same question kept coming up. What should we do to settle the Mid-East? I say ...let the dog off... and give Israel everything they need to do the job. They are the primary target in the Mid-East for ALL Muslims who want to ethnically cleanse the region, and they are the ones who have proved over and over they are capable of doing what is needed in the area. Bush Sr. kept telling them during the first Gulf War to not react, or attack, when they were being showered by Saddam with scuds, so we could keep the allies backing us. For those who think history doesn't matter, we should review what was done under Bush and then Clinton. Bush should have never quit at the Kuwait border, we should have finished the job then and there. Everyone knows what Clinton did do in response to repeated attacks by radical Muslim terrorists-he did a grand total of nothing-including NOT taking OBL when the Sudan offered him to us 5 times. We found no weapons of mass destruction, or so we’re told. Ever looked under the mosques in Iraq? Ever bombed them enough to open up sealed vaults perhaps hidden under them? No, because we respect other country's religion more than we do our own. Let's send the atheists over to Iraq in record numbers. They don't believe in God, Jehovah, or Allah, so they would have no problem going into the mosques looking for weapons of mass destruction. What about the historical areas of Iraq? You think Saddam only built bunkers to save himself? We’re dumber than a stump.

The only reason the Dems are so upset about the war in Iraq is they aren't the ones who thought of it first. Look at history friends. WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam were all under Democrat presidents. Gee, this is not rocket science.

History is what we need to look at in order to see where we've gone wrong, and where we might have a chance to re-do it so we don't keep messing up.

traitorous republicans/max power
"- torture is illegal max. that is what i know about interrogating a terrorist."

VERY WELL Said thank you TR. The rest of you should listen

Carlos -- watch out lefties?
Based on the foolishness I am seeing in the Republican Party right now, about the only viable strategy left is to ensure that the Republicans keep 40 seats in the Senate so that there will be a check on the Democrat President.

If you want Republicans to resume winning elections, the neocons have to be thown out and control of the party has to be returned to real conservatives.

Celeste
Did you miss the Cheney tape saying why invading Iraq was a bad Idea after the Gulf War? He was right then.

Max Power/Celeste
"I totally agree. Let's let Israel go to work... "

How did they do in Lebanon?

Max Power
"You are completely out of control with your left-wing rhetoric. "

Example please? You are not doing to well today are you?

Max Power
"Oh Please Hal
Knock it off, they were forced to stop. "

By whom?

carlos
reasonable people are asking if the republican party has a future and think they'll win in a landslide. hahaha
all that drinking has messed with your thinking

for "traitorous"
"traitorous" asks: "ok. now is your chance to prove your ultimate point. suppose iraq turns into a stable democracy due to 'the surge'. how does that prevent covert operatives to fly planes into buildings or sneak a nuclear weapon across the border in a suitcase?"

The original theory that the neo-conservatives had, was that democracy tends to spread. Today Iraq, tomorrow the entire Muslim Middle East. And once the entire Muslim Middle East is democratic, responsive to the needs of average citizens, that will minimize the chance that any of those average citizens will resort to violence and/or terrorism to advance their political goals. (Or so they thought.)

The proponents of this theory evidently knew nothing about Arab culture, nothing about Islamic doctrine, nothing about jihad, and not very much about human nature either. They drew a totally false analogy between the Arab Muslim world today and the Communist bloc during the Cold War.

But right now, that whole issue is moot. While winning in Iraq won't help much with the fight against terrorism generally, LOSING in Iraq will HURT our ability to fight terrorism generally, because the humiliation of the United States in Iraq cannot help but encourage all our enemies to push us even harder elsewhere. Once you start a war, you have no choice but to win it.

As Charlie Brown once put it in the eponymous comic strip:

"Winning isn't everything.
But losing isn't anything."

for Celeste
Celeste writes: "I've read all the heated debate about terrorism, Iraq, Iran, etc., ad nauseum. The same question kept coming up. What should we do to settle the Mid-East?"

The answer to that is easy. Convert America to a NON-OIL based economy. That would cause the world price of oil to collapse due to sharply decreased demand. (Which would NOT happen if the U.S. simply tried to drill more of its own oil.)

It might cost hundreds of billions of dollars to retool American industry away from oil. But we have spent over a trillion dollars on the Iraq War. If we had spent that trillion dollars on achieving energy independence instead, we would have achieved it by now.

Once that happened, the Muslim oil states of the Middle East would be facing financial ruin. They have literally nothing else of any value to sell except oil. Then they would be forced to reform. And the Saudis wouldn't have money to spend on fomenting radicalism and subsidizing radical mosques and madrassas worldwide. And the Iranians wouldn't have money to spent on nukes either. (Incidentally, a collapse in the price of oil would also finish off Chavez in Venezuela too.)

Oil is like an addicting drug. Bush was right about that--we're hooked on it. But if we can break our addiction, the drug pushers are out of business.

stevel
you think humiliating ourselves by saving face and our @$$ will enable terrorists. well that's the problem then. you are unable to realize our, no wait, the neocons desire to spread our footprint across the middle east is what gave al quaeda the idea to attack us in the first place. the more we're there, the more they hate us, the more the resentment grows, the more likely they are to do something radical...

HaL scribbles:
Have you folks even looked at Hillary and her website

No, but I don't have to shave a dogg's butt to know something stinks either!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Bad enough....

"Gallo-Chasanoff, told CNN that a senior Clinton staffer approached her at the event and asked if she'd like to ask Clinton a question after the senator’s speech on energy policy.


"'I sort of thought about it, and I said 'Yeah, can I ask how her energy plan compares to the other candidates' energy plans?'" Gallo-Chasanoff said."


"The campaign staffer told Gallo-Chasanoff that wasn’t 'a good idea,' and produced a binder with pre-written questions, she said. "The top one was planned specifically for a college student," she added. " It said 'college student' in brackets and then the question."


"Gallo-Chasanoff, who told CNN she "likes to be agreeable," conceded to asking the question, which read: "As a young person, I'm worried about the long-term effects of global warming. How does your plan combat climate change?"



And then had the you-know-what to deny that she knew anything about it....



And hadD wants us to rush right over and look at her web site???? Yeah, right!!!!!!!
*********************************************

And, how about we keep the discussion on HELLary... Her lies, etc., etc., etc. have NOTHING to do with whatever the Republicans did.... Let's just stick to this..... If you can!








Dems. will be looking into the pit
Hillary has finally fallen off the press-love-affair cliff by "poor me"-ing one time too many and then planting questions with shills in the Iowa townhall meetings. Townhall. How ironic.

The Dems. only have suffering and defeat.

When troops start coming home in the spring, libs. will be weeping and wailing that Iraq is not politically stable, but my guess is few except the DailyKrap and movealong.littledoggie set will care.

That's the problem when you wed yourself to anti-Americanism, defeat, and desparation.

Hal
"WOW and then what will we do for professors and medical doctors and engineers? Many of those were educated by their countries and come here to work. We can't train enough American's because a good education costs lots and I hear on TH it is socialism for the state to help them"

The only doctors or engineers are Muslim? That's news.

Care to back that up with any numbers?

Be careful, I *am* an engineer who hires other engineers.

And NO, you are wrong....engineering is just not as sexy as being a good lawyer...because of the *already* installed Visa limits, foreign engineers typically only go to graduate school in the US. And they don't have to be Muslim.

Frankly, a Muslim *terrorist* with an engineering background is terrifying. Note, I didn't say a Muslim with an engineering background....I said a Muslim terrorist. Unfortunately, Visas aren't discrimatory enough to qualify Muslims as terrorist vs non-terrorist, so you have to discriminate on national security reasons on both.


Hal, the Israelis
knocked Hezbollah on its posterior attitude in Lebanon. That's why you haven't heard anything from H. there anymore.

The fact that the AP and Reuters planted ambulance hulks in pix and pretended Israelis bombed them or stuck brand new teddy bears (where would Arabs in Lebanon get teddy bears? or want them?) near debris to "prove" how vicious the Israelis were doesn't mean the Israelis weren't superior fighters.

Hezbollah is like the nitwit terrorists we're fighting--lots of power is small bursts but not organized enough to really fight a disciplined military.

People that disparage the US and democracies like Israel have never known what's it's like to live under a tyrant or in oppression. They're so lacking in perception they think they can disparage the military and traditional values because they'll just always be here to protect their anti-isms forever.

The truth is without defending ourselves America and the West and its freedoms can just disappear into history like Rome and all the great empires of the ancient world that exist now only in history books.

If the current tactics
being used in Iraq continue to reduce casualties, and if the Iraqi politicians figure out its better to have a smaller prcent of a big pie, than a large percent of no pie, Iraq may approach a state we can call victory. Some of the trolls will look pretty silly, along with "defeat already" Reid and "no one else to kill" Richardson. Talk about short term memory deficiency. How can any dispassionate voter pay any attention to anyone whose judgement has been shown to be lousy over and over? Will Dem voters hold their bad mouthing against their reps? Not only no but Hail no, judging by the record.

Savage99: Going to my daughter's in

VA this weekend... B'day party! :-)

At leat one (possibly both) CIA neighbors will be there... so we'll be reading roberto roberto's posts.

Promises to be a LOT of laughs.

:-)

Traitorous repub.....
You state ALL the repub candidates are elitests born to power. Would you like to tell me how hunter fits that mold? He served in RVN during the war and was decorated for it. He actually downplays it.

HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

renny
"renny writes: Tuesday, November, 13, 2007 7:59 PM
Hal, the Israelis
knocked Hezbollah on its posterior attitude in Lebanon. That's why you haven't heard anything from H. there anymore. "

I hear from them every day lady. Did Israel gain one objective? The answer is no

eastlake: It's tr, what do you expect?
.

Anne
I may well be in DC this weekend. I would love to visit Northern VA. May i drop in?

Doc
"No, but I don't have to shave a dogg's butt to know something stinks either!"

So true and sorry I know how much time you spend in Dogs' Butts - not that there is anything wrong with that.....

wobbie wobbieAlways remember
SOME LIBS ARE LIKE SLINKIES .... THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR
ANYTHING ... BUT THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)


HaL
Better there than Billary's :P

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Hey Doc: I came across a few of wobbie

wobbie's priceless posts today.

Can hardly wait to share them with my daughter's CIA neigbors. LOL

I'll keep you posted when I get back. :-)







Anne
"..Can hardly wait to share them with my daughter's CIA neigbors. LOL

I'll keep you posted when I get back. :-)"

Can't I visit? also I probably know them

Robert
I trust all is well? I am off...
Be well!

Hal scribblies:
I trust all is well? I am off...


OFF PLUM :P

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Anne
Cool, Hal is always good for a laugh!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Anne
I have shared with my NEIGHBORS as well...They are laughing as well!!!

Anne
First "as well" = also

Rockhead J. Squirrel writes:
Not so much
renny writes: Tuesday, November, 13, 2007 7:59 PM
Hal, the Israelis
knocked Hezbollah on its posterior attitude in Lebanon. That's why you haven't heard anything from H. there anymore. "...

actually. It was a "Rumsfeldian" victgory. Kind of like Arbusto declaring everything was fine on the Babe...not so much

Robert

Rockhead J. Squirrel writes:

Complete, total, utter, and absolute gibberish.
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