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Tuesday, November 06, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Time for GOP Backbone and Leadership
by David Limbaugh
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This latest "torture" flap concerning Judge Michael Mukasey's attorney-general nomination raises an important question. Why do Republicans always let liberals co-opt the moral high ground and back them into a corner where their only escape is to prove they are as "compassionate" as liberals?

If Republicans are serious about reestablishing themselves as the dominant party, they should recapture their moral courage and start defending principles they claim to believe in.

The Republicans' timidity shows up on a wide array of issues, from Social Security to torture, where they're on the defensive and apologetic, and they allow the liberals' revisionist "facts" to become "conventional wisdom."

Republicans should have owned the Social Security issue. President Bush is the only political leader in modern history to take on the "third rail of politics" after years of both parties warning about its imminent insolvency.

Instead, Democrats stole the narrative as quickly as you can say "demagogue" and scared seniors into believing Bush was trying to destroy the system.

It's been even worse with the tax issue. Never mind that Bush's tax cuts were skewed slightly in favor of lower- and middle-income earners and that following the cuts, the top 1 percent of income earners pay more than 39 percent of federal income taxes, the top 5 percent pay 60 percent and the top half pay 97 percent. Never mind that the cuts stimulated economic growth, increased federal revenues and greatly reduced the deficit. The conventional wisdom is nevertheless that the cuts were only for the wealthy and are bankrupting the government.

Ditto for environmental issues. Republicans are competing shamelessly for inclusion in the "Inconvenient Truth Club," dutifully reciting the passwords, "man-made global warming is destroying Mother Earth."

Forget that much of the so-called science is highly debatable, that the data it relies on is sometimes fraudulent and that "consensus" is an unscientific way to establish scientific theories. What apparently matters to these green-with-envy Republicans is that the compassion train does not leave them at the station.

But the most recent example of Republican fecklessness is the torture issue. Here, Republicans should seize the moral high ground and put Democrats on the defensive.

We are, after all, at war. We ought to be focused on how to win the war and fortify our national security. But Democrats can't shake their obsession with finding fault with how we are conducting this war and how cruel we are allegedly being to the enemy.

They painted a few instances of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib as systematic torture at the hands of the Bush administration, though they were unauthorized and against administration policy. The mainstream media repeated the Democratic narrative so passionately and so often that it has become "conventional wisdom," as well.

Why didn't Republicans indignantly challenge the assertion that underwear on enemy heads at the hands of renegade soldiers constituted torture -- authorized by the administration, no less? Words matter, especially in a war for "hearts and minds." Were Republicans that fuzzy about the definition of "torture"? Or were they afraid to risk being depicted as defenders of torture -- even though, in the process, they allowed their entire party to be saddled with that baggage?

How about Guantanamo prison? With some admirable exceptions, Republicans have permitted Democrats to adopt the al-Qaeda spin that we routinely abuse prisoners there. Even when the truth emerged that al-Qaeda was playing the Democrats and the mainstream media for "useful idiots" in their propaganda push against the prison, Republicans allowed Democrats to escape accountability for their distortions. Sadly, even President Bush has assured us he wants to close down Gitmo. Why are Republicans afraid of fighting back with the truth, which happens to be on their side?

Now Democrats are threatening not to confirm attorney-general nominee Mukasey over waterboarding and are castigating him for refusing to concede it is torture when that is far from clear and he shouldn't be taking a position on it anyway.

Where are the courageous Republicans to shame Democrats for carrying al-Qaeda's water? They could point out that it is probably not torture and that it has rarely been used, and that when it has been used, it has actually worked and perhaps saved lives, contrary to liberal propaganda that it hasn't.

With all of these war-related issues, from terrorist surveillance to Gitmo to tough interrogation techniques, Republicans could do a much better job demonstrating that Democrats are on the wrong side -- literally -- and are doing far more to harm our national image with their lies against the administration than they claim Bush is doing with his policies.

Republicans would have more success convincing voters of the "rightness" of their policies if they started acting like they believe in them themselves.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Mitt can lead and will
Mitt is now leading in the first five states to vote.The national polls are name recognition and MSM borg spin.

Mr Limbaugh another
example of why you and your brother have such polorizing effect on people you are clear concise and leave no room for doubt in your precisely acurate anaylysis of events. Oh and by the way great article. Had most Republicans stuck to their core beliefs and not thrown them out with the bath water we be still in the majority in congress and sailing to an easy 3rd consecutive republican white house

Exactly, Doug
The problem is that the GOP has been going through a conversion process and turning into the Dem-Lite Party.

It's clear for all to see.


Brianr its a continuous battle
I think its always been and always will be, kinda like the bussiness cycle thing.

republicans
True, true. Is there one Republican in the senate with the guts to stand up to the posturing Democrats in these confirmation hearings?
Guess not, we're doomed.

kma
Where is Jesse Helms when you need him?

Ron Paul’s Record Online Haul

How is the GOP not dead in 08 without Ron Paul?

WP-Today, Nov. 5, marks not only Paul’s best fundraising haul in a single day — more than $2.5 million by 6 p.m. EST — but online observers say it’s also the most money raised by a candidate on the Web in a single day. And the day’s not over yet. “Damn. Wow. Um, that’s pretty awesome,” said a stunned Jerome Armstrong who served as Howard Dean’s online strategist. Armstrong, the founder of the popular blog MyDD, said Dean raised as much as $700,000 in one day toward the end of the primary race. “But not a million,” Armstrong added. “What Paul is doing — or what his supporters are doing — is really impressive.” You can view all the fundraising data here.

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-pauls-record-o nline-haul



Chuck the truck is right
I think though that the libs in the MSM, Hollywood, and California want Fred to win the GOP nomination. They want to see Clinton tear Fred apart.

Expect to see more favorable articles about Fred from liberal rags like Harpers.

Mr. Nobody
me thinks that we should let you run the country and your policies! (right into the ground, of course)
I say let the demorats have all they want. By the time they ruin this country, the revolt will be well on its way. You spineless libs will get saved by the brave men and women of this country, and we will never have to look back again.
And just to let you puke in on a little known fact, recruits in Marine boot camp endure far greater horrors than Gitmo, Abu Graib and waterboarding. Thanks for your time, and have a nice weak day.

I was going to say
Right here in answer to Limbaugh's question about where those who would stand up might be, because there are a bunch of us non-conformist conservative types responding here and elsewhere. But, no, when those dressed up as right-leaning, suchas truck, attack dog, and, of course, konop can't even acknowledge the subject matter, where's the need to check this crowd.

For what it's worth, those of you who believe you are impressing the outside world with your 'we must retain our humanity' horsecrap are simply delusional. Do you seriously think Sheik Khalid Rama Dama Ding Dong is going to reconsider his actions re beheading, corpse burning, disemboweling, etc, just because you want to look nice to the Europeans? What a load.

Robert, Robert,
Just STFU. There are many things that are not moral. For example, cheating on one's wife, and lying about it, taking money from people and not reporting it to the FEC,lying about having served the Country.
But waterboarding is merely an information gathering tactic...I wonder which you would choose if you were one of the prisoners at Cabanatuan? The foem of torture, I mean? Especially since it wouldn't be for information, but rather, because they could get away with it?

Well, in the end we know who kicked asss! But none of that matters to you, only that you take your own moral high ground from the rest of us scum who know that in reality, war is ugly and some things become necessary to survival of the fittest.

BTW, the Surge is working and you Vctory-phobes better start getting used to it.

Chopper John
As I was about to acknowledge the stench of another poster here, I read your post and had to take a 5 minute howling time out! You write:
"Do you seriously think Sheik Khalid Rama Dama Ding Dong is going to reconsider his actions re beheading, corpse burning, disemboweling, etc, just because you want to look nice to the Europeans? What a load."

Although you are right on the money in your statement, the Rama Dama Ding Dong sent me spinning.
Thanks for the reality, and of course the laugh.

Torture who cares?
Tell me is ripping a baby out of the mothers womb and plunging sissers in its skull torture or is it a choice? We are in a war for our very survival. The "Greatest Generation" did far worse, or better depending on your opinion. Dropping nukes on Japan and firebombing Dresden come to mind. If we loose this war, and we can, this stupid debate on what is torture won't matter a bit. You libs think communist work camps and gulags are justifiable since the end justified the means. Personnaly I don't care what the CIA does to some terrorist if it saves the life of my family. Tell me, on 9-11-01 did any of you people concern yourselves with what torture was? How about being burned alive while you were at work? Or jumping out of a building to your death to avoid the flames? Oh I forgot, we brought it on ourselves.

context is everything

Morality does not occur in a vacuum.

Everyone has heard the "ticking bomb" argument. Those who believe it is moral to allow millions of Americans to perish in order to preserve the rights of a terrorist are not "moral." They are fools.

As attributed to former Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson: "the Constitution is not a suicide pact."

RockyJones writes:
Lets see how long D. Limbaugh would last being water tortured. No doubt in under 2 minutes he would give us all Rush's "Ladies" name...or who is providing him pills.

Robert

The above statement supports the fact that torure works. Thank you for admitting that even if you did not intend to. Let's see how long would you last before you admitted you are an al queda sympathizer? Two minutes? Like I wrote above we are in a war for our survival and if we loose it this stupid debate won't matter one bit.

I am John Doe.

doing the right thing takes time
I wonder if the widespread acceptance of torture (as in waterboarding) is a result of our very short term attitude to life nowadays. It seems to deliver a sense of justice to many when we do it, and there are those who would argue that it gets instant results. But in truth it doesn't - which is why many military people and people (like John McCain) who have experienced torture oppose it. The likes of Sheik whatever his name are never going to change their attitudes to their treatment of their own people and our prisoners, so there isn't much point in trying to win them over. This war on terror, or whatever you want to call it, will not be won by whoever kills the most or whoever tortures their prisoners the most. It will be won when ordinary people decide that enough is enough. The only way to be in the right side when that happens is to oppose torture - and to oppose any erosion of our moral superiority. Because we are more moral than them, and resorting to their tactics merely brings us down to their level.

Roadkill58
BINGO! I'd like to give all abortionists the dry submarine and leave the rubber hood ON! What the h*ll, toss the rest of the libs in there as well. Sharks gotta eat too right?

BTW, swing by my blog for a CONTEST! It's a new one, Name that Dwarf! Great prize for the winner!

I thought
that we were ignoring Sore Hole's trolls like Robert Robert who have to post under different names. What an anal orifice.

BTW twinkie, "that Marine recruist "volunteer" to undergo is irrelevant to the debate on water torture."

What the H*LL would you know what Marine recruits volunteer for? You'd wet your panties on the yellow footprints p*ssant.

You must be out of quarters for the Walmart helo. What a loser.

CB
We agree on this subject for the most part. In gathering time critical information, I'd say peel the hide off of them but for just average terrorists, there are other ways to get the info. Loud music, sleep deprivation, bare minimum diet, all things that we do to recalitrant prisoners in the Big House.

USMC Lt
I chatted with the FBI agent who is in that picture carrying the dead NYFD Chaplain in 9/11.

He said that the sound of the bodies hitting the street, sidewalk, cars, fire engines, etc, was something he'll never forget.

Maybe we need to do a "Clockwork Orange" on the libturds, watching the images over and over and over until they understand the issues we face.

USMC Lt - what a liar
I don't know where you live, although given your post I can only assume it is some radical hippy commune. Not known as a home for Marine Corps personnel but maybe you are a bit different. If that's not where you live, you are an out and out liar. Tracking Bush's approval ratings would seem to be a good guide to public opinion - when Afghanistan was invaded in October 2001 as a direct result of Sept 11th, Bush had an approval rating of over 90 per cent. Given that the vote is historically split fairly evenly, we can assume that the American public is pretty much half democrat half republican. So if, as you claim, democrats and liberal were keenest on preventing Bush finding out who did it, then how did he get such a high approval rating? And as the majority of the bombers were Saudis, some might say that he still hasn't invaded the country that was responsible...

Damnit, Bill,
I OPPOSE WAR, not just torture. I oppose all ideas relating to blowing people apart, EXCEPT when those people intend doing it to me or mine.

I'm going to repeat myself from another post a few days ago. McCain's views on torture are correct. Who am I to say they aren't. But let me tell you something as clearly as I can. If I believed that someone knew something pertaining to an imminent danger to my loved ones, I would do anything in an attempt to derive that information. To not try would be my psychological end. Torture doesn't work? Ask Khalid Sheik Whatever. By the way, 'loved ones' in this particular context is AMERICANS.

Is torture abominable? Yep, but not so much if it results in saving the lives of those I care for.

CB
do all of us a favor! Stay over in Britanstan would ya? We have a hard enough time dealing with the peaceniks that already exist here.

Chopper
Look, I understand where you're coming from. I hope I never have to make any decision like that, ever, but I just don't think you can have a halfway house on torture. You either believe it's right or you don't. By your rationale, any prisoner could have such information and given the number of Americans around the globe they could be in danger just about anywhere. Does that mean prisoners are routinely tortured in case they have information pertaining to putting Americans in danger? Because you could argue that that is the case anywhere and everywhere. You often read stories where the families of murder victims plead for the killers' life. I can't imagine how tough it is to do something like that, and as I say I hope I never find out. But I view this in a similar light - the easy thing to do is to excuse it, to argue about "what if", to seek revenge rather than to seek a higher morality. My family is just as dear to me as yours is to you, I am sure. But you can't have it both ways with torture because in the long run, rather than being a solution it is an escalation.

gop leadership
it becomes more apparent that the president has opted for early retirement. The repubs are not getting any signals about any final iniatives or proposals to rally the party. The repubs made many mistakes in congress while in the majority. The dims attacked and promised changes but none have occurred. It is past time to start alerting the public to the broken promises and further destruction of congressional responsibility under reid and pelosi. The repubs never mounted a succesful counter plan when they opposed clinton. The dims only weapon against bush was to oppose everything. The repubs need to developee policy issues that will reasonate with the voters in the next election. There are so many issues to take the lead on that the dims will step away from rather than alienate their special interest enablerts. Border security, immigration reform, tax reform, making english our national language, ending the pork barrel spending, stopping the conti nued growth of govt can all be winning issues. If the pres won't lead the nominee will have to take the bold step and announce the repub agenda for the future.

Bill,
please don't form a mind picture of 'old crazy CJ pounding on his desk screaming WE MUST TORTURE'. I believe my rationale is unequivocable. I won't repeat the whole thing, but it starts out 'if I believed that someone knew something...'.

Also, Bill, please believe me when I say that I am not among those who would plead for the life of a killer who harmed mine. I might plead for custody, but of course, there would be no future torture in mind. Ya think?

no backbone
in my opinion thats why we lose. afraid to stand up to the dems. and mccain is the worst. people like olympia snow are dems, but mccain pretends to be a conservative.

militant dog
how can you be so stupid. were you taught in a gov union thug school

truthseeker, MLD
has never had anything useful, cogent, or intelligent to say. Best to let it slide, in my opinion.

truthseeker
He is a troll that the rest of us don't respond to. There is nothing in his attic but some dead space.

Please don't feed the trolls the attention they crave. That one posts the same old drivel week after week. Like a whiny kid, we ignore him.

Chopper
Look, I don't see you as someone banging on his desk demanding that torture is used as a first resort... but I go back to my previous argument. There isn't a place in the world where Americans aren't potentially in danger - in fact where we aren't all in danger to one extent or another. Who would have thought a nightclub in Bali would be a target for terrorists? The logical conclusion to your argument is routine torture for all prisoners in case they know something. Surely you can't agree with that? There can be no half way house on this issue.

for RockyJones
RockyJones writes: "There is no moral high ground for anyone who supports water boarding."

You're WRONG.
The Wall Street Journal just had an op-ed on this, in the context of Paul Tibbett's passing.

Here are three moral conundrums for you:

The bombing of Dresden (WW2)
The atom-bombing of Hiroshima (WW2)
Waterboarding (War on Terror)

The bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima/Nagasaki were far more horrific than any waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And they were done to innocent civilians, whereas KSM was a known terrorist.

Yet we are able to analyze the first two dispassionately without emotional freaking out like you do for the third.

Most folks agree that the atom-bombings of Hiroshima/Nagasaki were justified. Most historians agree that the bombing of Dresden was not. Why? Because Hiroshima/Nagasaki shortened the war, saving a lot of lives. The bombing of Dresden had no major strategic value; it was naked vengeance.

This comes down to an issue of moral calculus--what are the moral consequences of NOT taking the action. That gets you into delicate issues of moral philosophy and you need to draw on lessons from history.

The same issue is true with waterboarding. If the consequences of allowing a terrorist to keep secret some knowledge of a terrorist attack that could kill tens of thousands of Americans, is it moral NOT to try to break him by any means possible, including waterboarding? Is it moral to allow the terrorist attack to take place and say "Well, tens of thousands of people got killed, but at least we never did waterboarding"???

Bush is incapable of that kind of delicate reasoning. He's just not a deep thinker.

That's why he has been unable to argue the policy in public, but has to keep it a secret.

Bottom line: Don't put policies into effect you yourself can't explain.

We are, after all, at war.
Really? With who? Let me check. Mmm, that's right NOBODY.

War, as defined in the constitution, has to be declared by Congress.

We are not "at war" unless one considers hyperbole like "war on drugs", "war on Islamo Facism" or "war on terror" war.

Did we declare war on Iraq? Nope. Even if we had, the President said, "major combat operations have ended".

The politicians are fooling themselves if they think the American people want a perpetual "war on terror" the way we have a perpetual "war on poverty" and "war on drugs".

Let's ask the American people, shall we?

The sad irony is that if we had spent that 1 trillion dollars on beefing up homeland security we'd be much safer.

The fiction of war will cost of trillion dollars, have made the US less safe and is therefore a complete waste of money. Something a *true* conservative can care about.

The day Republican politicians start asking, "what have we gotten for a return on our investment" is the day I'll believe we are at war. The day Republicans start asking "what battles did we lose and what battles did we win" is the day I'll believe we are at war.

But for now, as with the "war on drugs", the "war on terrorism" is just a money pit and a senseless waste of lives. We have no way to measure having completed any objectives in the war on terror in Iraq. None. Bush claims our money has been well spent because we've killed thousands of terrorists. Liberals claim that invading Iraq created Terrorist High and also more terrorists than existed before.

You have to take it on faith with any conclusion that we are either safer or less safe by having invaded Iraq.

That is not responsible or conservative to prosecute a war on faith only.
Conservatives believe not only in personal accountability, but government accountability and war accountability.

I'm glad you said this David
I believe you have pretty accurately nailed this one. One of the most distressing things about the Republican leadership is the seeming propensity to just lie down and roll over no matter what the Dems do.

Bush is no visionary
David Limbaugh asks: "Why do Republicans always let liberals co-opt the moral high ground and back them into a corner where their only escape is to prove they are as "compassionate" as liberals?"

Because a fish rots from the head down:

If Bush, the GOP standard-bearer (who also happens to be POTUS), is unable to articulate a consistent vision to the public that motivates specific GOP policies, the liberals and Dems will win the argument by default.

Because THEIR vision is clear enough: warmed-over New Deal liberalism.

The Republicans in Congress can't be expected to sell ideas that Bush can't articulate himself. As Truman said, the buck stops with the President; he cannot delegate leadership of the country to anyone else.

Ronald Reagan was able to articulate a vision of American freedom that competed effectively with that.

Bush is not. He is totally inarticulate when he has to explain anything in a public forum without a prepared text (and he even mangles those on occasion). I'm not even sure he buys into that same vision; his talking about "compassionate conservatism" suggests he is not.

GunnyG, SSGT, wildwest, Chopper
Good morning all.


Why is this even an issue?

Is AL-Q sitting over 'there' in a cave somewhere devising a plan as to how they are going to provide Americans with 3 square meals per day, better medical treatment than they are currently getting and a Bible?

I don't think so.

The published videos of Berg and the others whose heads were CUT off, rather sliced off, didn't show any of the terrorists asking if they were comfortable prior to being beheaded? Did they? Or did I miss it?

I can not understand the mentality, or lack thereof, that goes into the reasoning that we should coddle the enemy.

Too bad Al-Q doesn't form a "true" military with uniforms for all, and establish a 'country' with borders. Do you think the libs would be OK then if we were to go in and blow them to smitherines?
What would be their excuse then.

What is it going to take? An attack on San Fran? Another NYC attack? Chicago? How about all three at the same time? Then scum bags such as Kennedy, Murtha, Robert, MLD will be screaming for "US" to rescue them.

Unfortunately, I will be too busy protecting my and my family's lives and property to worry about them. The only use for them then, would be to stand them up on the front lines as a barrier.





To GunnyG:
Have you heard that Lolo was in an accident and has been in the hospital?








I'm curious
To all who support waterboarding, suppose you were a suspect (falsely accused of course)? Would you be OK with being waterboarded as part of your interrogation?

Mr. Nobody
Any day, any time, any where Nug. Boot camp was the easy part of becoming a Marine! Every opportunity that I ever came across with any inter-service operations ended with the few and the pround dominating. You paratroopy wanna bees could not hold a candle to an every day grunt in the marines. So don't flatter yourself too much. And you think waterboarding is horrible torture. You obviously had a marry ole time in putting parachutes together for the real jumpers. Pa-leee-zzzeeee. You make me laugh!

SteveL
I've posted this thought on a number of occasions and I've never had any response. Perhaps because it's a bit wild but bear with me... I think Bush is mildly autistic. He can deliver a speech; he can take exams and he can hold an audience, given the right surroundings. Almost like he can be wound up like clockwork. But as soon as he goes off script, as soon as he is taken out of his comfort zone, he becomes a rabbit in the headlights. You're right - he can't articulate anything off his own back and instead resorts to tried and trusted soundbites which he clearly thinks are answers but leave most people scratching their heads - including his supporters. What do you think?

for USMC Lt.
USMC Lt. writes: "Tell me, on 9-11-01 did any of you people concern yourselves with what torture was? How about being burned alive while you were at work? Or jumping out of a building to your death to avoid the flames?"

Now that's a very BAD argument. I was siding with you guys on the issue (for my own reasons)--until you made this statement.

What you are implying here comes awfully close to justifying torture as vengeance: Americans suffered horribly on 9-11 so let's make a few of "them" suffer in return.

There has been enough written about the immorality of revenge that I don't have to repeat it here. Go search Google.

And it doesn't let us draw any distinctions between the bombings of Guernica, Dresden, or Hiroshima. "The enemy deserved it as retribution" could be used to justify any of those. Heck, Muslims used that argument to justify 9-11.

The best argument in favor of waterboarding is one of moral calculus: Consider both sides. What would be the morality of NOT breaking a terrorist by coercive means and allowing America to be vulnerable to another major terrorist attack?

Could we honestly say to the American people "OK, 5,000 more Americans just got killed by terrorists, but the good news is we never waterboarded any of them"???

GOP politicians either
aren't aware of the term RINO or they don't understand what is meant by it.

Until they totally embrace Conservatism and go to Washington prepared to be partisan, unwilling to compromise in the same way Dems do the base will continue to fall away from the GOP.

Has anyone ever heard a liberal complain that their politicians are DINOS? That is because DEMS know from whence their power comes, while GOP politicians continue not getting it.

While the Presidency would be wonderful to retain, the most important place that Conservatism will either prevail or be made insignificant is in the Halls of Congress.

Without a majority in Congress, Conservatism will lose. The RINO has hurt this party but there are still enough Congressmen and Senators who will influence them, if they are the majority party.

The party that puts secure borders, enforcing the laws on immigration issues, and does not support amnesty will be the party that wins in 2008. This issue is of great importance to voters on both sides of the aisle.

Good fences make good neighbors and will secure the sovereignty of our nation. If we do not do these things, the rest won't matter.

Frey writes:
Tuesday, November, 06, 2007 9:51 AM
I'm curious
To all who support waterboarding, suppose you were a suspect (falsely accused of course)? Would you be OK with being waterboarded as part of your interrogation?



Stupid question.

First - I will never find myself in the position of being waterboarded. Because I will not be co horting with the enemy.

Second - Name one person that has been water boarded, in the US, 'falsely' as you claim.

My worst nightmare would be for the US Military to put underwear on my head and take a picture of me. NOT!!!!


Idiots.


Bman3
morning!
They don't care about how americans die. They only care about protecting the rights of the enemy, so we don't look bad to the world. It never ceases to amaze how they think!
Mr. Nobody thinks putting parachutes together is hard military operations. That just goes to show ya their mentality!

SSGT
Once upon a time in my younger years I used to sky dive for recreation.

We would go up and up and them jump out a perfectly good airplane.

After a time we would pull the rip cord and float around a while

The view was puuurrrrrdy.


Some people hit their heads when landing and did permanent damage. If you get my drift.

Bman3
WTF happened?

How serious?


SSGT/Mr Nobody,

It only serves the left we we fight amongst ourselves. Different services, different mindsets. It should always be one team, one fight and current intel clearly shows that our enemy is liberals and the DNC run by George Sore Holes.

Farmer's Wife
"The party that puts secure borders, enforcing the laws on immigration issues, and does not support amnesty will be the party that wins in 2008. This issue is of great importance to voters on both sides of the aisle."

AND embraces the Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org) will win.

Cant trust the dems
This is why the 2007 democrat party cannot be trusted with defending this country. They cannot make the tough decisions that are necessary when you are at war. Do you think there are any Harry Trumans in this 2007 party that could authorize dropping the bomb?

To all
It's a darn shame that when Hillary is confronted with a yes or no question - "Do you support spitter giving illegals licenses" - that she mucks it up so bad she has to resort to accusing the men of 'piling on.'

Poor dear. She suffers from "TimRusssertHatesMeItis Syndrome".

Of course it can be cured with a simple dose of "VinceFosterGotItAntiVenom"


Which brings me to wonder:
Is Norman Hsu still Dead man Walking?

It would be nice
to have a conversation couched in reasonableness every now and then without the blathering idiocy of the usual drop-bys.

Now, Boutte, is it possible for you to read D. Limbaugh without getting your drawers in a wad over his brother? Next, you got your info that the goings-on at Abu G. was not frat hazing from whom? Next, global warming is gonna kill you, OK? Go out fighting it to the end. By the way, 90% of the world doesn't give a rat's patootie about the environment. Next, the enemy hasn't attacked us in 6 years. Want to venture a guess why that might be? Next, whether the GOP wins or loses will, in fact, be up to the ballots cast. You shouldn't base your hopes on the L. bros. Finally, I kinda think those who sling that old chickenhawk term around are, usually, a bit of the old merde de pollo themselves.

GunnyG
posted by jim yesterday on Burt's thread....



jim writes: Monday, November, 05, 2007 12:22 PM
All you lolo lovers out there

Our dearly beloved had a bad accident, she has been in the hospital for eight or ten days, and has more to go.

There are a whole bunch of breaks and bumps, and she ends by saying, "at least six weeks before I can walk, but I do have feeling."

I'll bet the prayer lines will be busy as a whole swarm of bees.

Republicans lost out on the
waterboarding issue because of traitorous RINOs like McShame and hit b-boy Graham. Repubs lost out on fighting AGW because of RINOs like Bush. The lost out reforming SS because of RINOs like Olympia Snow.

In short, RINOs have destroyed the Republican Party. As BrianR said above, they have become Demo-Lite.

Bman3
I was sitting outside my hooch last night, burning a Cohiba (cuban) and wondering why Hitlary has not acted yet. Maybe she hopes that Hsu is sufficiently afriad and will clam up. I hope that he sings like a canary! haha.

He knows he's dead meat the first time he hits GenPop.

Vic
I agree with Brian in that, I won't be voting for a RINO, period. The GOP puts one forth for 08, I'll be fishing. Let the libs win so that the American people get a lesson they'll never forget as well as the GOP being served notice.

NO FUGGING RINOs NEED APPLY.

bman, gunny, ssgt
since there is no morality to war this nonsense over taking the supposed high road is absolutely pointless. The only goal is saving american lives from the barbarians that hate life and whose seemingly only goal is to get to their perverted sexual paradise where 69 virgins named rosie are awaiting. To think the bin laden somehow thinks there is any relevance to treaties or the geneva conventions is no more than wishful thinking. Personally I favor letting the terrorists know they will be dopped in pig lard and have a pigskin coat wrapped around them after death. This soils them and makes them unfit for paradise. But whatever it takes to stop the terrorists is acceptable. Worrying about whether the belgies, or the germans or the swedes disapprove of our actions is totally pointless. Letting the worthless UN dictate are efforts to defend our country and citizens is equally pointless. If the worthless gang of petty thugs don't like things here they are welcome to relocate their headquarters in havana, or n. korea opr any of the other headquarters of the thugs they routinely honor.

Bman
You mention the fact that you are unlikely ever to be tortured because you aren't a terrorist. Isn't it more accurate to say that you are unlikely ever to be tortured because the chances of you ever leaving your confortable surroundings and finding yourself in a war zone are precisely zero? I wonder what the average soldier thinks about the use of torture - after all, they are the ones putting their lives on the line, not you. They run the chance of getting captured and tortured on a daily basis, unlike yourself, tortured by people who might do it anyway but whose actions are in turn legitmised by US policy. They do it to us, so we do it to them. Very brave of you to dismiss torture when you're unlikely to leave your desk. I'll take John McCain's view on it over yours any day...

GunnyG
your correct in the fact that the military should stay above the frey, but Mr. Nobodylooser called me out on it, and there was only one response. Marine Corps! I only said that being a marine is much harder than 2 minutes of waterboarding! These folks just don't care about my country the way I care about my country and it chapps my #ss!

wildwest
"The only goal is saving american lives from the barbarians that hate life and whose seemingly only goal is to get to their perverted sexual paradise where 69 virgins named rosie are awaiting."

I've always agreed with that. Funny how the Euroturds loved us in the 50's/60's/70's when WE were the only thing standing between them and the USSR.

Dropping the UN and NATO would go a long way to making these limp noodles pony up the cash and either shut up or pitch in!

Critical Bill
Do you really think that it would make a difference to one of our tortured soldiers if the torture was LIBERAL perceived legitimised or UNlegitimised?

Also Torture is SO the wrong word. The term is Coercion!

Shaggy
Since we have not dipped them in pig lard to date, or wrapped them in a pigskin blanket at death, let me answer how they have treated our captured americans to date.
1. cut ones head off
2. ripped the arms off another
3. tore the legs off the third
4. the fourth one has not been found yet.
Does that compare to a waterboard? No, I did not think so. Course, you may!

Testosterone overload on this thread...
Intersting that there are no women on this thread... grrrrrr. If it gets any more manly this page will sprout balls. But, if you lot are all so gung-ho about getting your torture thang going, why don't you sign up? I'm sure the CIA and military top brass are always on the lookout for willing waterboarders. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you're all armchair warriors aren't you? Apart from Gunny who lives in some fantasy world where he is an American version of James Bond. And if the current crop of Republicans are such a poor lot (which I have to agree with you on), why don't you get out there and stand for election? As far as I understand there's nothing to stop you from trying... but no, it's far safer to whinge, whinge and whinge some more...

mld proof that abortions can live
I guess in that strange country you live in, you know never never land everybody is safe as long as they stay away from capt hook. The military doesn't stay safe from playing nice with the enemy. You believe this fantasy that the enemy our soldiers are facing honors the geneva convention. How many of our soldiers have suffered beheading, tortures and mutilations from the enemy you love to support. You disgrace america by defending muslim terrorists. I on the other hand believe the military should be free to conduct the war to win. If they need to wipe out many more thousands of terrorists, so much the better. Less to face in the future

Shaggs
I know that we have major ways at looking at things. And most here find you very hateful in the things you say, including me. But for some reason, you have tossed me some very plausible statements that get me thinking. Here is one of them.
SHaggy writes:
"Try to imagine that folks who disagree with you can still love their country and care about it's safety. try for a second to take politics out of patriotism - or do you prefer Americans pointing fingers at each other while our enemies laugh?"

I do have very good friends that don't see eye to eye with all my views. Thats the beauty of the hole thing! They are still my friends. But these same friends would do anything to preserve the values that we grew up on. If waterboards saved one american life, Then I am for it. Thats all I can say on this issue.
Hope the Mr. Buck is doing well.

CB
Nice try bud.

But your response to my response to Frey is baseless.

Go back and reread each one of the postings.

Don't try to twist my comments to fit your own perverted thinking.

I can bet you that, in uniform or not, I would be one step ahead of the likes of you should the need arise. All I can say is you'd be best to stay out of the cross hairs.

I for one, as a red blooded American, would defend my country, my family, my property and my neighbors down to the death. And I would gladly take anyone down with me that stood in the way.

Then should there be any survivors on the 'other side' I would take great pleasure in torturing the h3ll out of them. I might even video tape it for future reference. You know, for training the Brits.

So, has G Brown got you guys cutting & running out of Iraq yet? Or is it still in the works?

As far as I know, the US has not had a "Dress Like a Muslim Day" in our schools yet. AS you have had in GB.




Vic, off topic....
for a moment to inquire about your health? As I told you my husband has discontinued the statin drug and blood thinner. We got a certified letter from his cardiologist yesterday, dismissing him as a patient for non-compliance of recommended treatment, telling him to find another doctor.

Hope your doctor is more willing to listen to you and will work with you to find the treatment that gives you the ability to protect your health and retain a physical and mental energy adequate for meeting your everyday activities.


CB
Why don't you find some toothless two bit wh0re in GB and marry her? Instead of invading KY with your crap.


Then you wouldn't have to come over here and soil this great nation.

When you do finally get to KY, I wish you luck. I think you are going to need it. And don't accept any offers to go hunting.




Shaggy
writes:
"I think they did those things after the troops were killed. I'm not aware that any of our troops were torutred to death - are you?"

Your not serious in asking that are you? Whats the difference. They are coming home in pieces from an enemy that wished you, me, CB, Bman3, GunnyG, wildwest, YLG, Mrs Paddy, t r, and the rest of us would end up the same way!!! Don't you understand that? They want us dead. They have declared it from the Mountain tops, literally.

Bill,
I just returned. Had to go shovel some dirt. No, really, I was shoveling dirt.

You seem to be losing it a bit. First of all, don't assume that the guys (testosterone, um, good) you're conversing with either aren't or haven't been in the military. I went through the same POW prep course John McCain went through, just so you know. As far as standing for election, not everyone wishes to be a politician. Nowadays, I'm not sure it's possible without owing favors. I'm not crazy about that. I'm also not crazy about soliciting money, which is, of course, necessary. The position I would like to have is 'benevolent dictator'. There are a few things I would straighten out, you can believe that. (First would be to make it tougher to immigrate to Kentucky :)

By the way, for all who might wonder; waterboarding is most definitely torture. Ask Sheik Khalid Yadda Yadda.

SSGT

The MLD wrote:

...I think they did those things after the troops were killed. I'm not aware that any of our troops were torutred [sic] to death - are you?


Is that AS stupid as one of Robert/Hal's postings or more stupid?



Did I hear you say Nick Berg? Perl?

GunnyG
I agree, I will NOT be voting for ANY RINOs this time. I guess I will have to do a write-in for the Graham ballot since the Dems have said they will not run an opponent because he "was the best "Dem" they had and I wouldn't vote for a Dem anyway.

Mabe I'll write in "Bman from Charleston".

Farmers Wife
Sounds like the Doc is mad he won't be getting any commissions off of your hubby anymore.

Bman
B*llocks. Baseless? Twisted? Perverted? You said, and I quote - "I will never find myself in the position of being waterboarded. Because I will not be co horting with the enemy." Now, are you currently serving in the military? Do you intend to serve in the military at any point in the future? If not it's a safe bet that you won't be putting yourself in any position to be captured by any jihadist any time soon. I have not twisted any of your comments, and I repeat, the reason you are unlikely to be tortured is that you are unlikely to leave the comfort of your current surroundings and put yourself in any danger. I merely pointed out that there are other, more down to earth reasons that you probably won't be tortured any time soon. Your bluster isn't fooling anyone - "stay out of the cross hairs"? Why, because you'll shoot me?? What a buffoon you are. Armchair warrior, giving it the big "I would kick everyone's *ss". Ridiculous.

Bman3
your above posts wraps it up very nicely. Most red blooded, and even some blue blooded americans would do the same.

Vic
Thanks.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of my peeps at TH.

The first item on my agenda is to close the borders of Kentucky until I can go through all the visas.

The next first (concurrently) item will be closing all the borders, both North and South.

The next first would be to get all of Ray Nagin's school buses and put them to use. Guess how?

The next first would be to turn the Military and Gunny loose to fight the terrorists the way they should be fought.


The second item is to suspend ALL earmarks.

The next second item (again, concurrently) would be to try all traitors and upon conviction prosecute them according to the Constitution.

The jurors would be Vic, SSGT, Gunny in absentia, Chopper John, BrianR, wiseone, wildwest, sheepdog, AGZ, Lolo, YLG, mrs paddy, farmers wife and the list goes on. Nothing wrong with a jury of say, 30 or 40 is there?

Farmers wife could make us some of that peach cobbler too for our breaks.

The breaks when we play pin the 'tail' on the traitor

Shaggy
writes:
"it's a compelling point of view and hard to argue with, except, what if you knew we could Nuke Iran tomorrow because ti would save 10 American lives. How many people would you kill to save some Americans?"

I was asked the same question a while back. How many American deaths would it take to make me attack another country. I'm sorry to say, but the answer is (1). Thats right, shaggs. If someone lopped your head off, I would be in favor of letting that countries harborer see the wrath of the U.S.
Do you know how much we give all these countries in monetary amounts each year. And this is how they show us they appreciate it!

bman3
Don't worry about what CB has to say..They'll all be practicing sharia law pretty soon anyway.
Once he finds out what's that's like, I'm sure he and his ilk will be begging us to come save their fannys (again).

Hey CB
weren't you the one who went off on the Guns the other day for pursuing avenues such as this!!
You write to Bman3:
"I did look for a toothless two bit whore but I heard she was already married to you. Pity."

Hmmm, whats good for the goose, huh?

Bman3's 11:14 post
CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
DIIIIIIGGGGGG-IIIITTTTTT!!!!!

Farmer's Wife
No such luck with my doc. I asked him about going off of the cholesterol drug as I was doing very good on my diet. He said that diet alone would not do it and that I needed to lose weight. He did let me go off of the nitro patch which was giving me a headache.


SSGT
I hear you but when the libscum see us arguing, it encourages them. Let's make sure that their morale hits rock bottom and stays there!

I ignore the pinpricks of the weasels out there, the mooks not worth being named here. The vets open to attack are Hanoi John loving scum and psuedo helo pilots! haha.

SSGT
I refer you to Bman's post of 10.58. Read that first. He asked for that sort of a response, although yes I should not have responded to it. His post was a pretty clear indication that rather than be able to articulate any kind of genuine response he was forced to resort to an ad hominem attack.

Bman3
Thanks for ruining chow.

"Many years ago I worked with a gal from London.

She stunk. What few teeth she had was barely hanging in there. And you could have braided a rope with the hair from under her arms."

She was probably in the "grizzly" pps that The Crawfish emailed to me. Ya gotta see it to believe it and NO DOUBT, they're all Euros.

Bman
I'll bring a rope. Make sure the trial is held on at least the second floor.

Limbough
Keep listening to these nitwits and the R party will completely go down the drain. WB is illegal and well should be. As John McCain says its torture, Hell, we convicted Japanese for WB our own troops. " The technique involves choking the victim by filling their throat with a steady stream of water — a sort of "slow-motion drowning" Its against our lwas and every other civilized nation.

CB
"I did look for a toothless two bit whore but I heard she was already married to you. Pity."

I guess it's open season on family members.

BTW CB, how's your wife and my kids doing?

Taxes
Bush's new tax ystem is exactly what consrevatives love: here's an example:

Warren Buffet, the richest man in America, pays 16% of his income to federal taxes. His secretary, who makes $60,000 a year, pays 28%.

Who says republicans don't like charity for the rich?

Geez,
I leave for a little while and things have gone slightly awry. The other day Guns agreed not to family-ize the dialog, as did Bill. I suggest we hasten back to that ideal, and just call each other dipwads. With MLD, however, you can get a bit more effusive.

Politicans vs Patriots
Unfortunately, we have few leaders in the GOP these days. We have more politicans operating out of fear of how their sound byte might sound than speaking their hearts. Most of them have no heart, they are just repeating mantra's given them by their handlers.

Many of them don't have any convictions beyond doing whatever is necessary to stay in power. I believe George Washington would call them whores.

The last GOP congress lost, not because of what they stood for, but because they stood for nothing.

Lastly, we are in a state of war. Have been since 9/11. We did not attack first, they attacked us. These are people who use women and children as shields while attacking our troops.
These terrorists go after civilians because they are too cowardly to don a uniform and go after our military. Point is, we have an enemy, and they are pure evil.

Now I'm really not qualified to comment on what is or is not considered torture. I'm really not qualified to determine if torture is effective. But then, neither are 99.9% of the people responding in this blog.

But I'll say this, allow our military to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect America. They are the experts, we are not.

Also, quite attempting to apply constitutional laws to those who are enemies, not U.S. citizens and those who oppose every law of our land.

Quit attempting to apply Geneva conventions to terrorists that represent no country on the face of the earth and as such are not obligated by the Geneva conventions in the first place.

We are at war. There is no such thing as pretty wars.

Torture as regarding waterboarding
Torture must involve infliction of physical pain. The discomfort of waterboarding is not torture. This is is the controlling element in judging waterboarding. Other techniques must be judged separately.

Mr Nobody
"Marines are top notch, no doubt, but no better or worse than your average line infantry unit in the Army."

Sorry my friend but there I gotta draw the line. I'm working with your Army here in Iraq and even Army retirees are not happy with the level of performance of the Army. I've worked with the Army since I retired in Jun 2002 and have seen a lot of things go on that would never have flown in the Corps. Case in point, I witnessed a week ago, a public dressing down of one Army officer, by another one, in a room full of contractors, juniot O's and E's, and not one thing was done about it.

One more point, the Marine Corps will not accept ANYONE with a score lower than a Cat 1. The Army is taking Cat 4's. That's about the moron level. Please check with a recruiter if you do not believe me.

Ron
This exchange is between the American prosecutor, Col. Keeley, and Filipino lawyer Ramon Navarro, who was subjected to waterboarding.

"Around four or five times, from two o'clock up to four o'clock in the afternoon. When I was not able to endure his punishment which I received, I told a lie to Yuki ... . I could not really show anything to Yuki, because I was really lying just to stop the torture."

Sounds painful to me, thats why we and the Geneva conv. outlawed it.

Hey Bman...
I would make all the peach cobbler and maybe some homemade ice cream to go on top, that you could eat.

Also be glad to serve on the jury.

Just so some people know, all women aren't squeamish when it comes to interrogation of the enemy. I say use whatever means necessary to get the info we need. Those who remain on the so called high road of this issue will be responsible for sending this country straight to H%%l.

Aside: Just got a call from the RNC wanting my money. I told them when they stop promoting RINOS I will consider them worthy of my support, until then I will only support individual candidates that are true conservatives.

calmdown (touj)
Have you looked at both tax returns? If not, then how do you know the ins and outs of them?

Also, are you aware that many of the deductions today, that Buffet used were written in FDR's day, by Dems?

Also, how do you feel about The Breck Girl squirreling HIS windfalls for suiing the NC Medical industry into bankruptcy by opening shell corps and trust funds?

How about the Kennedy's REGULARLY sheltering their cash in TF's?

Torture
Torturing people has actually hurt our war effort. Take KMS for example, his tortured confession screwed everything up and no one takes it seriously.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact _mayer?currentPage=1

In March, Mariane Pearl, th widow of the murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, received a phone call from Alberto Gonzales, the Attorney General. ...

CB
Yeah I'm here and I perform dental surgery on British Coalition Troops.

In fact, we got a shipment of teeth with minute radios in them and I told them that but they said the h*ll with the radios, just give us the teeth.

It's called time off meathead. We're not total socialists like Britainistan.

Mr Nobody
I hear ya and when it's in jest, it's cool but fratricide does us no good. Ther are plenty of non-vet libscum to attack and crush. Ones who deserve it!

calmdown
the bookshelf required to hold all the irs regs would be at least 11 feet long. Congress has long written special rules that pertain to the rich and how they can shield their wealth. The entire tax system needs to scrapped and replaced. A flat tax or natl sales tax would be far fairer than anything congress has devised to date. The second benefit would be the elimination of the irs and the billions it would save the treasury from no longer be necessary.

Cb
You state that you feel sorry for me.

Thank you very much. I don't need your pity. We just need for you to stay in GB and guard it for us. Deal?

With that being said, please make a donation, in my behalf, to either The Salvation Army or any church (Christian) you so choose.

But being a true lib, we all know that you would never donate your own money. Unless of course you could get some type of publicity or notoriety out of it.

Have a nice day :o)



Ron,
you failed to mention the mental aspects of torture. Believe me, being on the board would cause me some mental as well as physical problems.

Mr. Nobody
Is that right!!!
You spout:
"You are an ignorant clown. I list among my acomplishments, Ranger school, Pathfinder school, SERE training (including being subjected to waterboarding, Master rated Jumpmaster, Retired as an E8."

And you now support the enemy! I wonder who the ignorant clown is now?

You also spew:
"It is pathetic that one is labeled a leftist, or terrorist sympathizer if one thinks America should take the high ground and condemn torture in any form."

Your ignorance is overwhelming. And you have absolutely made my point that military training is worse than what we do to "TERRORISTS". AND YOU SUPPORT THEM, BY TAKING THE HIHG GROUND.
Condemn the torture of our troops in the way we train them. schmuck.

Torture, What Torture?
Torture by most rational thinkers is described as an action that causes extreme pain.

Yanking out fingernails, popping out eyeballs, chopping off fingers and other assorted methods of extreme pain - now that's torture!
Sleep deprivation, loud music, exposure to extreme temperatures and yes, being scared ****less, that your going to drown, are really harsh inconveniences, not torture.

Ask any Navy Seal or Army Ranger that routinely goes thru these types of tactics while they are in training if they think it qualifies as torture. They'll look at you like the moron that you are.

Thinking the way all you fools do, who write about a higher obligation, higher moral standing, can't let ourselves get down to their level and other assorted BS, I guess we should get an arrest warrant for Sherrif Joe Arpio, from Arizona, because he makes his prisoners wear pink undies, sleep in tents outside when it's very hot and eat cheap baloney sandwiches. Now that is REAL torture!

As Sherrif Joe says it, "You don't like it, don't come back." Same goes with our enemies, pick on us - you pay the price.

Gunny
Well, either you are a tireless worker or you enjoy more vacation time than a French union chief. Because you are never off these threads. So, what's it like there? It's weird but I just find it difficult to believe you...

By the way,
Michael Brown, I enjoyed your post. That was a good one.

Bman3
I almost laughed about libs donating THEIR money until I saw your qualifier. Yep, they'll spend OPM (other people's money) all day long and twice on Sunday but they'll pinch a penny of their own money so hard, they squeeze a booger out of Lincoln's nose.

GunnyG
re: Buffet's receptionist. What they DON'T tell you is that most of his earnings come from capital gains. What does not come from capital gains is earned from tax exempt interest. I think his salary is a whopping $1.00 per year.

Had he not been so cheap, as only a liberal can be, she would be making a lot more than $60,000.

You are correct re: Kennedy and his clan. Their money is in Fiji. I do not know where Hanoi Heinz-Kerry's is. Nor do I care.

I wonder if Buffet provides health insurance or a 401(k) to his receptionist?

CB
It's weird but I just find it difficult to believe you...

Didn't know I had to prove myself to you. I myself find it hard to believe that you have a functioning brain but there it is...

Bman
unlike many I don't wear my charity like a badge of honour... but for your benefit, I donate monthly from my net salary to Scope (cerebral plasy), The Children's Society (looking after homeless kids), Amnesty International (your favourite) and the RSPCA (prevention of cruelty to animals). It's not much but it all adds up. I don't support overtly christian charities because I am not myself a christian. Sorry. Not getting much notoriety out of that lot though, I must be doing something wrong...

Gunter writes:
... I guess we should get an arrest warrant for Sherrif Joe Arpio, from Arizona, because he makes his prisoners wear pink undies, sleep in tents outside when it's very hot and eat cheap baloney sandwiches. Now that is REAL torture!






I say Sherrif Joe Arpio for ATTORNEY GENERAL.....
Or DHS Secretary. Or both.


Bman3
The Breck Girl opened up shell corps and "S" corps in the Caymans to shelter his dough.

Not to many libturds mewling about THAT we see.

CB
Amnesty International?

I did a term paper on the "Shining Path" terrorist group in Peru and AI had a lot of links of aiding them. I think they've killed about 60,000 Peruvians over the years.


Bman3
Sheriff Joe should be feeding em nothing but water and MRE's! Let the prison scum be forced to deal with "Meals-Refusing-to-EXIT!" haha.

CB
Thank you again.

You state "unlike many I don't wear my charity like a badge of honour"

But then you GO ON TO TELL us who you give to. Next thing, you will be telling us how much.

Listen up. Put your ear next to the monitor.

WE DON'T GIVE A FAT BABY'S ASZ!!!!
Ok!!!

What you give or don't isn't my business.


Like Gunny said. Go find a couple of pennies and see if you can pull a few boogers.


ps - Wasn't Amnesty international responsible for some horrific things a while back? Like taking up where the UN left off.


Have a nice day :o)

MLD
They are AMERICANS!!!!

AMERICANS
AMERICANS
AMERICANS
AMERICANS
AMERICANS
AMERICANS


You know, your enemy.


GunnyG
The Breck Girl also used his Sub S corps to avoid paying the payroll taxes - otherwise known as FICA or Social Security taxes.

He, instead, paid himself dividends to the tune of $600,000. That saved him the 1.45% portion of FICA.

This was discovered while he was touting an increase in FICA taxes to "SAVE" soc sec.

Only heard about it once or twice on the MSM though.




MRE's are too good for them. Soldiers have to eat those. Therefore they are too good.

Potted meat and water for breakfast and lunch. And for a special treat for dinner - they get to get a glimpse of Rosie leaning over with a half thong on.

Bman has senile dementia
Firstly he attempts to taunt me or something about charity, asking me to donate either to the Sally Army or a church, but then says something about how because I'm a liberal I certainly would never give to charity. Then he gets all upset because I point out to him that I do, and even name the charities that I give to. I think it's time his incontinence pants were changed or something because he is losing it...

What is wrong with a little Strength?
I am so disgusted by the bleeding hearts that we must take the 'higher ground' etc etc etc.

I'm tired of being called a warmonger because I support our troops and our military action against terrorists.

I'm weary of worrying about how the world views us.

The enemy cares not if we are morally circumspect...our enemies laugh at our weakness. We know how they treat girlie-men in Iran...Thank God we still have some real men willing to do what it takes to prosecute this war.

What is so wonderful about a toothless tiger? He'll die.


Gunter
You clearly know very little about history and torture methods. Not that I'm an expert either, but would you agree with me that the Inquisition used torture? I suspect you would agree. Well, because Inquisitors were Dominicans they could not break the skin of someone they tortured. So they used the methods that you decribe as an inconvenience, and a few more to boot. Torture was never meant to kill - although many died under torture it wasn't what it was set out to do. The stake did the killing, by which time the Dominicans had extracted their (overwhelmingly false) confessions.

Mr. Nobody
One cannot quit when one does not like the training. One will endure it to the max, to prepare ones self in case of capture. As an E-8 in the troopers, 82nd Airborne, one would know this. I am not questioning your service, but even little ole me knows this. And you don't need to tell me about POW training, as I have been thru my fair share also. And if waterboarding samples is the worst they did to you, you got of easy. Just Like I noted earlier. I will honor your service, however, I will not forgive your pass to not torure terrorists who want me dead!! Just not happening!
(oh, by the way, I was tied (wrists to feet) dropped out of a helo into the ocean, blindfoled and gagged all the while. Sucking water thru my nose until the rescue boys thought I had enough. That was part of my POW training. Hmmm.

Republicans vs Dumbocrats
Republicans were raised in households where their mommy and daddy taught them to be responsible, polite and discuss things with logic and reason. Being polite meant not being agressive when discussing points and to consider the others point of view. After all perople are reasonable(?).

Liberals on the otherhand had their mommy running around at night having free love and being supermoms. With luck they knew there daddy. They never had time or will to teach their children manners or any other socialogical basics. So the kids turned out to be greedy, shrill, irresponsible (fault is always else where) and hateful.

Now the Republicans try to be reasonable and compromise with Dumbocrats
but the Dumbocrats dont understand compromise and they just kick and scream till they get their way. Most Republicans just dont know how to handle the situation.

Mr. Nobody
writes again:
"I'll take the high road and ignore the denigrating rants that you make from the safety of your keyboard."

Like I said earliier, any time, any place Mr. 82nd Airborne! Mono-A-Mono as they say.

bman
sheriff joe has them living in tents in the arizona desert. I thought they were getting baloney sandwiches. He stays within a budget and there are no frills. They stopped letting them get stamped letters as the mailers were putting some form of dope on the stamps glue. But everything here is in 2 languages and that is most insulting. These illegal parasites show up and the moron geraldo tells us we should al