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Tuesday, September 25, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Columbia University's Selective First Amendment Affinity
by David Limbaugh
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Over an avalanche of protests, New York's Columbia University invited Iran's Holocaust denying dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak on campus. That any American institution would furnish a propaganda platform for this murderous thug is symptomatic of staggering ignorance about our enemies in this global war on terror.

Self-congratulatory liberals, like Columbia's President Lee Bollinger, actually see the university's hosting of Ahmadinejad as a cause to celebrate -- advancing free speech and diverse viewpoints -- as opposed to something that must be reluctantly tolerated.

What will it take to wake people up to the reality that this tyrant is every bit as pernicious as Osama bin Laden? Then again, many would probably jump to offer bin Laden a forum, as well. After all, they believe both have legitimate grievances against U.S. policy.

Columbia history professor Kenneth T. Jackson said New York has more than a legal duty to accommodate controversial figures from abroad. "It's a moral obligation as a great city," said Jackson. "New York's record is one of toleration of difference."

Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? Well, I'm not rejoicing over this wrongheaded decision to turn over a major university megaphone to Ahmadinejad to help him "teach Americans about the world."

We have no legal duty to accommodate the despot behind many, perhaps most, of the improvised explosive devices killing our soldiers in Iraq. The U.S. Constitution is not a global guarantor of civil rights. It does not protect the speech of foreign dictators. It was not written to safeguard al Qaeda's rights or its sensibilities.

Even if the First Amendment did apply, it wouldn't oblige us to provide rhetorical weapons, ammunition and delivery systems to our sworn ideological enemies in this deadly war of ideas. Ideas have consequences, and the promotion of deadly ones can have deadly consequences.

Some leftist media types are afflicted with this bizarre notion that their journalistic integrity requires them to strive for neutrality between the United States and her enemies. Remember CNN anchor Bernard Shaw professing such nonsense when refusing to be debriefed during Gulf War I?

Nor do we have a "moral obligation" to enable terrorists to kill us, destroy our nation and promote a worldwide caliphate. There's no ethical requirement that we prop up a sadistic egomaniac who has threatened to dispatch 40,000 suicide bombers throughout the civilized world and who is rattling his saber against this country amid chants from his indoctrinated, crazed subjects calling for "death to America."

There's also a larger point involved here that certain First Amendment charlatans choose to ignore. Contrary to their claims, there is nothing we can learn from Ahmadinejad that we don't already know -- at least not in this forum.

He's made quite clear who he is and what he stands for. He is an enemy of civilization who runs the nation the State Department has identified as the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world today.

He is not here to debate or be persuaded. He doesn't seek dialogue or a give- and-take of ideas -- unless you want to humor him with an openness to his suggestion that 9/11 was an inside government job. He is not here to argue his case for Iran's nuclear proliferation, which he denies with the chutzpah and finesse of a Goebbels or Stalin.

He is an incorrigible believer in Islamic world conquest whose ideology makes him impervious to reason, negotiation, diplomacy or compromise. He's here to promote his propaganda and to recruit those amoral enough in our media to spread it and those gullible enough in our population to swallow it. The only thing that will dissuade him is force or credible threats to use it.

Besides, there are plenty of people in this country who are protected by the First Amendment who are more than willing to promote Ahmadinejad's ideas. Indeed, it seems many on the left derive some kind of perverse pleasure seeing Ahmadinejad taunting President Bush and his policies. Figuratively speaking, you can't help but wonder whether for some of them, it's not as much about promoting the First Amendment right to burn the flag as it is their delight in watching the flag burn.

Why else would comment posters on the liberal Daily Kos blog say they have a crush on this dictator? Why else would the mainstream media have marveled at his rambling, incoherent insulting letters to President Bush -- giving them and his warped ideas a shameful degree of credence?

If Columbia were serious about its openness to all ideas, it wouldn't have revoked its speaking invitation to the Minuteman Project's Jim Gilchrest.

Sadly, liberal academia's simulated love affair with the First Amendment and so-called tolerance for diverse viewpoints just goes one way.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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So, have you heard --
-- how the president of Columbia University called the guy a "petty and cruel dictator" among other things?

Columbia University President Lee Bollinger pretty much chewed the guy up and spit him out before he even had a chance to say anything.

They may have given Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a forum, but they took the opportunity to lambaste the Iranian president. He took him to task. He asked him the hard questions, which, as the news story I saw said, he "dodged most of them instead of answering."

Unlike David Limbaugh who wants to berate Columbia University for even giving the guy a place to talk, I think this is a great example of free speech at work. Allow the fellow to have his say, no matter how much you hate him, but at the same time, make certain you say what you need to say in rebuttal.

That's what free speech is about. You don't shut people up just because you disagree with them. You don't shut people up because they're vile, evil, nasty, or what-have-you.

Just make sure you exercise your own freedom of speech to make sure that incorrect speech does not go unchallenged. Which, as far as I can discern, is exactly what happened in this case.

Uncle Alby
Columbia does not have to let Ahmadinejad speak.

President Bollinger of Columbia has been praised for his speech today and his harsh words to Ahmadinejad. Now beside the fact that Ahmadinejad is being given a forum in a top college in New York City, Bollinger's remarks could be cover because of all the uproar because of the original invite.

When even the NYC council [really liberal even for New York] speaks of taking some action to possibly hold back funds for the college as both the state and federal legislators have mentioned, Bollinger needed some cover.

Throughout the Mid-East most of the people and leaders will not know or care what Bollinger said just that Ahmadinejad spoke at Columbia.

Good point, jevica...
...Bollinger could have given that speech without having Ahmadinejad on campus. We don't need the likes of Ahmadinejad just to prove We have Freedom of speech.

jevica
No, Columbia does not have to let him speak.

They don't have to NOT let him speak, either. And certainly not because letting speak gets people all bent out of shape.

As it is, they chose to give him a forum. That's their decision, not ours. Whether they decide to lambaste him "for cover" is something else entirely, but still, their decision not ours.

And I wouldn't sell the folks back in the Middle East short. They *do* have Internet access. They know more of what goes on outside their borders than they get credit for.

I'm not saying the universities aren't bastions of unmitigated liberalism. I just think that, whether or not you agree with the original invite or whether you suspect his motives, a little appreciation is in order for what the CU president ultimately did. Despite the uproar, he did NOT have to do that.

Ouch!
I love it when blowhards blow hard - especially when done so premature! I suppose once the blood returns to Limbaugh's face, he will type up some angry blather about how lefty Bollinger is harming something or other by delivering that classic scorching rebuke we all saw today. Bollinger managed to do what we would all love to do tell Amadinejad off AND slap the far right with the same hand. I guess you don't get to be president of Columbia by being stupid. Beautiful!

Jimmy Carter: Bollinger could have said the things he said without Ahmadinejad being present, but had he done so, no one would have heard it.

For those who will insist that Ahmadinejad shouldn't have been given the platform, even though that platform was promptly set on fire, relax. The Iranian president won't be accepting platforms any longer.

The world applauds you Mr. Bollinger! Limbaugh: You might want to wait a couple of days before you share your predictable thoughts.

It Occurs To Me
This isn't a "Freedom of Speech" issue at all.

Columbia University, while they do accept federal research moneys and such, *is* a private institution. As such, they can invite anyone they want to speak.

The First Amendment only applies to Congress, and by implication, to the US Government. Private parties (in theory) need not concern themselves with whether or not anyone can or can't say whatever they want.

I'm not defending their PC "speech codes" and such, but like it or not, as private institutions, they *do* have the right to restrict speech, or encourage the kind of speech they believe is "Good For You."

Unless there's some law that applies to private universities, or some strings attached to their federal grant, scholarship and research moneys, that I'm simply not aware of.

jevica, I wondered that
same thing. Primarily because Bollinger's public commentary BEFORE Ahmadinejad's speech was vastly different from what he said to the Iranian president when he introduced him. Why?
Like you mentioned, pressure from the public, and not just in New York City. I think people from across this country were emailing him and calling to voice an opinion. When I tried to call his office, it said the voice mail box was full.

Unca Alby writes:
"Columbia University President Lee Bollinger pretty much chewed the guy up and spit him out before he even had a chance to say anything.

They may have given Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a forum, but they took the opportunity to lambaste the Iranian president. He took him to task. He asked him the hard questions, which, as the news story I saw said, he "dodged most of them instead of answering."
---------------

Lets see, one night out of the last 6 years and all the other days and nights he has been silent about these things (I think),understanding he is a liberal.

If he knew last night what Ahmadinejad was all about, why hasn't he spoke up before now is my question.
And support the WOT


Does anyone know if
actual Muslim groups (and not necessarily Iranians who live in the United States who may or may not be Muslim) protested Ahmadinejad's speech? If Islam truly is the religion of peace, then where were the Muslims who disagree with Ahmadinejad? I heard Glen Beck (radio talk show host) discuss this earlier, but I have not read or heard anything more.

Scout -- on One Night vs. Six Years
-- who knows, maybe he's seen the light?

I mean, look, you can berate the guy for being a liberal. I got no problems with that. But if he's going to say something right, and you're *STILL* going to berate him?

It's like they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If they say something liberal and get roasted in the conservative press, well they deserve it. But if they say something conservative, and then the conservative press merely questions their sincerity, and *still* roasts them?

So give 'em a little credit once in a while, when credit is due.

Unca Alby
Columbia has no problem restricting free speech of Americans it disagrees with, The ROTC (just their presence), Ann Coulter, Pat Buchannan, Jim Gilchrist, Bill Krystol. What gives? The dictator is worthy of honor and not conservative Americans? The Dean in my opinion buckled to pressure to save face he chewed on him.

not ashamed to be right
"If Islam truly is the religion of peace, then where were the Muslims who disagree with Ahmadinejad?"

The silence was defeaning...QED.

Iran is a terrorist state
They have been killing our soldiers for years. The boob should not have been allowed outside of the UN. Are we letting any terrorist run around these days? Are we going to have some mullah from the Taliban speak there next? He pretty much said what everyone expected so what's the suprise? Where's the debate and to what purpose? He should have been dragged from the podium and summarily executed! The ROTC is not welcomed there, as in a lot of other universities, so where is the "freedom of speech" so touted for this depot? FOS only exists for the left if you agree with them.

Petty Jealousy
is really the only response I am seeing from the right.

The David Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's of the world would give their right arm to be able to publicly humiliate Ahmadinejad the way Bollinger did today - and they would be appluading any of their right leaning buddies for doing the same.

Sorry you didn't get a wack at him.

And you folks on the right need to figure out a game plan.

You openly mock Muslims for rioting about a cartoon (albiet understandably)- but when a leftist University President publicly confronts this lunacy, you fearfully whine about how it's going to be "used for propaganda"

c'mon.

How sad that you cannot set aside your petty jealousy and simply applaud a fellow American for openly confronting and exposing evil.

Reality
We, as a nation founded on the precepts of Democracy and Freedom, would not and should not allow an individual whose values do not endorse our foundations, to be given the Freedom of Speech in our country.

We are not obligated to do so on our soil; he's free to spew his rhetoric masquerading as scholarship anywhere he likes, just not in a free nation such as ours. Since we hold the U.N. meeting, this is his only outlet, as it should be.

You cannot be an American Patriot and endorse this animal’s appearance at Columbia. Just as you can’t be an American Patriot and be against this war.

That’s the reality. Face it.



"Columbia is a private university"
is a fairly silly argument on several levels. First of all, Columbia gets millions of dollars of taxpayer money. Second, so-called public universities also claim the right to have anyone speak, so these comments are really nonsense.
If you believe them, I'm sure I can't dissuade you. But you're in my prayers.

Unca Alby
Sorry, but you're mistaken. Columbia, like PBS, gets FEDERAL tax dollars which, should have been cut off long ago but for the cowards in the Beltway.

NPR refuses an interview with Bush recently and nothing happened to PBS/NPR over it?

Disgusting.

Coultergeist
"Can someone explain to me why David Limbaugh has a platform here, save for the fact that he is the little brother of Drugs?"

The same reason Frau Hitlary can lie for her "weeny-waggler."

It's called freedom of Speech.

And evidently, the FREE market you libturds hate so much dictates a platform for David and the Godfather much as it did not dictate a platform for ERR America.

Allen
Jealousy? Wow, you are out there aren't you?
Nutjob's speech made a mockery out of Bollinger. But you left-ninded thinkers will never get it. "Nutjob is a reasonable guy, and our President is much worse..." WTF is up with the way you people view the world? oh yeah, I remeber now...Rose-colored glasses and la-la land. Phew, I feel so much better now.

Read this from Daily Kos:
"I know I’m a Jewish lesbian and he’d probably have me killed. But still, the guy speaks some blunt truths about the Bush Administration that make me swoon...
Okay, I admit it. Part of it is that he just looks cuddly. Possibly cuddly enough to turn me straight. I think he kind of looks like Kermit the Frog. Sort of. With smaller eyes. But that’s not all...
I want to be very clear. There are certainly many things about Ahmadinejad that I abhor — locking up dissidents, executing of gay folks, denying the fact of the Holocaust, potentially adding another dangerous nuclear power to the world and, in general, stifling democracy. Even still, I can’t help but be turned on by his frank rhetoric calling out the horrors of the Bush Administration and, for that matter, generations of US foreign policy precedings."

That's Showing Him! NOT!
I agree with the posters that this farce was a complete waste of time and at the taxpayers' expense. Bollinger and his sidekick on that stage made asses of themselves and sure got a dressing down from that Iranian maniac when he called them to task for being uncivil and rude. Oh boy! we really showed Iran that we mean business. And those buffoons in the audience laughing and clapping. What a freakin joke and thanks to the idiots that coordinated this travesty, that fanatic looks legitimate and sympathetic to the gullible that will be fed the propaganda instigated by this. Thanks a lot, Columbia! (Jerks!!)

patriotdefender
"Even still, I can’t help but be turned on by his frank rhetoric."

I wonder if this leftist moron will get turned on when he turns her into a french fry after he gets his hands on nukes?

Liberals, proving over and over that their gene pool is as deep as a thimble.

uncle alby lacks thought
Suppose a guy hung your two daughters and he was invited via teleconfereing to speak on whatever. Anything wrong with that. Free speech and all.
Wells I was at gym on the treadmil watching CNN when he was asked about treatment of HS and he answered that IRan does not have any. They split the screen showing a noose around two teenage HS.

What this means that the liberals apparantly get turned on by snuff that they have no problem inviting such.

IT speaks volumes. IT remind one of the liberals support of the mass murder in the Soviet Union; at least there it was not shown on TV; here there is no excuse.

I wonder if uncle Alby etc would also get a kick out of seeing a noose aournd their own children. It is not clear to me it would make a difference. Long live free speech. Why not invite OJ to speak about how to use charges of racism as tactic to beat the govt

censored
You should have that condition checked (although I know all liberals suffer from ICRS (Impacted-Cranial-Rectumus-Syndrome) you seem to have a real bad case.

Have you considered a 50 gallon high-colonic followed by a 26 mile run to flush out your head gear? I know several former liberals who tried it, got their head unstuck, and can now think clearly again?

Finally, in the interest of public safety, since having you moonbats running around unsupervised is like giving a toddler a loaded gun, I'm offering my 12 step plan to you free of charge.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/12d2bcfe-7679-4caa-a35a-e602fc908dfe

Hope it helps with that impacted noggin of yours.

censored
do you have a source for me or are as pathetic as you seem? you have mentioned my colon twice now and haven't referenced your source. it's because you don't have one. you are a lying loser.

Looking in the mirror huh?

censored
You remind of the little boy on the sidelines saying that you could do it better but funny, I DON'T see you doing it...at all.

I think that you should start your own blog here at TH, it's free, and SHOW us VRWC people how it's done.

Put up or shut up wingnut.

Coultergeist ...
If you want to cut and paste, get your consruction paper, crayons, and preferably non-toxic glue out of the closet and leave the adults to have a conversation.

Censored re the interview

Juan Williams who works for PBS did an interview with George Bush concerning the Jena 6 plus a few other things. His bosses refused to run it because Bush had asked to talk to Williams, who could never be mistaken for a conservative.

GunnyG

I saw Juan say that his interview with Bush was refused by PBS.

end of lesson for censored

( of course he probably never watches FOX NEWS>)

Allen
Pull your head out, the point of the article was Columbia Univ. hypocrasy, Ahmadinejad is worthy and has free speech rights confered upon him and yet just because some at Columbia disagree with Jim Gilchrist, Ann Coulter, Pat Buchannan, Bill Krystol, and the position of the military (a Clinton policy) on homosexuals, they should be banned in the case of the ROTC and the others shouted down, pies thrown at them and silenced right?

Milbank
This morning Tuesday 9-25-07 washingtonpost.com has a wonderful column by Dana Milbank repeating some of Ahmadinejad's lines yesterday, which Milbank styles as gradually progressing from Hallmark greeting card schlop to the frankly delusional (my paraphrasing here). Milbank's point: let him speak so that people can hear how nutty he is.

(At this point non-true-Conservatives will google washingtonpost.com out of curiosity. True conservatives will scorn to do so, saying, "I never read liberal media rags like the Washington Post".)

censored/TCA
LOL!

I'm still laughing over that spanking Bman1 gave you the other day.

The only censorship you're experiencing is in your own mind because in reality, no one gives a flying crap about what you have to say.

Me, I'm getting about 400 people a day viewing MY blog.

censored
You clearly would not pass the miller analogies test. I will tutor you. IT is not a free speech issue; it is the right of private institition to run its business as it desires and hence had every right to invite him. however, one might question the morality of it and the good judgement. To help you get it, you have every right to take yourself a lover in prison and even have conjugal visits even if the person in prison knocked off your whole family and dogs and burned down your house. You have every right to make it with that person. one might wonder about your sanity, morality. And so Columbia has HS and lesbian students; the president of that country gets off on putting a noose on teenage HS males for 1st offense; did you see the video; and in a case you are a girl, if lesbians caught, they get a break for the first 3 times with only whippings then the noose. you are quite free to invite the guy who is in charge of this, president of IRan to your house for dinner. Why not; free right to invite for dinner. I have tried my best to make the analogy clear.

Packrat
I dropped my Senator another letter asking him why tax dollars are supporting NPR/PBS?

Without them, NPR would go the way of Err America

Reason writes:
The world applauds you Mr. Bollinger! Limbaugh: You might want to wait a couple of days before you share your predictable thoughts.

Just once it would be nice if consevatives were given the same respect given this tyrant.

"If Columbia were serious about its openness to all ideas, it wouldn't have revoked its speaking invitation to the Minuteman Project's Jim Gilchrest."

Whether allowing a mob to shout them down or in the case of Ann Coulter having a pie thrown at her you libs seldom id ever give conservatives a chance to speak their minds on campus. Political correctnes is nothing more than censorship wrapped up in a progrssive package with a liberal bow. You people are nothing but hypocrites.

I am John Doe!


Coulterscheiss

You missed Lowry with your cut and paste advertisment for Moveon.

At leat tailor them to the subject

NYC Dork
You ever answer Brian's question about where YOU served?

If memory serves me correctly, and it does, you scrammed off of that board when Bria, myself, and a few others asked about YOUR SERVICE.

Let me guess. E.L.S.

Entry Level Separation in basic training for unsuitability to military service?

Bollinger was weak
Talk about freedom of speech -- wow. This thread has come completely off track and into vicious name-calling. Not helpful for anyone.

Meanwhile, those who think Bollinger just creamed Ahmadinejad with his opening remarks are people I must disagree with. I listened to Bollinger's remarks and I think that he just voiced a few words of moderate stren gth, over which Ahmadinejad skipped like stones on water, and then Ahmadinejad waxed completely incoherently. I think it was disgraceful that this terrorist was even allowed on U.S. soil, much less INVITED to speak by the university.

BTW, a question for conservatives: Can any of you recommend a conservative site that has the same variety and depth of articles that TH carries along with comments -- but where the liberal nonsense-comments are deleted by the webmaster (the way the lib sites delete conservative comments)? I'm getting sick to death of reading all the liberals who come here, obviously, only to agitate and provoke. They ruin about 75% of the article comments on the site as a whole and I am weary of them. Can anyone recommend something? Thanks.

censored writes:
columbia is a private university and can have anyone they want to speak.

So is Bob Jones University but I don't see libs defending their right to run their college the way they want. The Boy Scouts of America is also private but not letting homosexuals take little boys into the woods for camping trips rubs you libs the wrong way.

This scene just like the NYT add against General Petreyus will most likely blow up in the liberals faces. Seems to me the only time you people are concerned with privacy rights is when you're promoting homosexual behavior or genocide in the name of Allah.
Take note those "students" who applauded that nut case are the heart and soul of the democrat party. That is what we will look forward to if they win the election in 08.


Bman1
Don't start with TCA and the black helo at Walmart jokes, it was killing me the other night.

We have another mook here, NYC Hogg who Brian chased off the other night when he asked about his service.

I truly think that liberals are masochistic in nature and ENJOY getting spanked.

NYC PUPPY
You came BACK! Keep trying buddy, one of these days you may not embarrass yourself.

SOOO Puppy says:
"no WE don't - I notice that TOWNHALL has NO problem giving Oliver North a platform to speak - this is the guy that SUPPLIED TOW MISSELS to Iran - right after the current "president" had finished taking American hostages..."

Besides trying desperately to change the subject. Am I to believe that, that one thing you picked out in his list of reasons is the only thing you disagree with him on?


Uncle Alby says...
"That's what free speech is about. You don't shut people up just because you disagree with them. You don't shut people up because they're vile, evil, nasty, or what-have-you."

Well, yes and no. You don't shut people up just because you don't agree with them, true. But when their words are evil, vile or nasty, they should be quieted. Words have meaning, words have the power to spread the ideas they represent. Like pee in a pitcher of water, they sully the environment and can't be removed.

I'm not saying that putting duck tape over Ahmadinejab's mouth will turn him away from evil, but what benefit can there be in letting him spread it?

On the other hand, Bollinger was rude and childish to invite the man to speak, then denigrate him in front of the audience. That, and the audience's laughter, did nothing but offer more proof of America's decadence and barbarism.

Can anyone tell me where I can read a full transcript of Ahmadinejab's speech?

Freedom of Speech
Yes we have "Freedom of Speech. However we do not allow "Hate Speech", unfortunately the USC does not define or even recognize the difference. For example in Jefferson's letter to the baptist church he calls for the separation of Church and State, because he was concerned about a nationally recognized church.His reasoning was, we can not punish a person for their thoughts. Yet that is the very bases of hate crime legislation, punishment for the thought process. CUNY has every right to invite who they want or do not want. However they can't hide undem the "Freedom Of Speech"(FOS) clause unless they allow FOS for everyone. No military recruiters are allowed on campus, nor, if a understand correctly, is ROTC allowed


So by their own actions defeat their claim

for Unca Alby
Unca Alby writes: "That's what free speech is about. You don't shut people up just because you disagree with them."

But you do shut them up after they have gone on record as trying to kill you.

Right now, this very moment, our troops in Iraq are under attack from IEDs and other hardware being supplied to insurgents by Iran. Some of our troops have already been killed in this way. The time for "shutting Ahmedinijad up" was reached the moment the FIRST American soldier fell in battle due to any action taken by the Iranian government.

And that moment has long since passed.

I've already said this in other forums but I'll repeat it here:

When the shooting starts, the talking stops.

for Coultergeist
Coultergeist pukes: "Can someone explain to me why David Limbaugh has a platform here, save for the fact that he is the little brother of Drugs?"

Your posts have been flagged.
The next step will be the removal of your account.

GET OUT OF AMERICA, TROLL.
STOP CONTAMINATING MY BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY WITH YOUR COLLECTION OF LEFT-WING HUMAN FILTH.

Bman1
I wonder how many of these libs who claim service received a Big Chicken Dinner (BCD).

Bman1
You're kidding right?

Hal referenced the NYT? The SAME newspaper that hired noted black fiction writer Jayson Blair?

What a stooge.

You're getting an early start on NYC Mook.

I'm betting he was at Dress Barn getting a jump on that new spring look!

Max Power
"Can anyone explain why Columbia embraces AquaVelvaJad, clearly an anti-America, holocaust denier, but refuses to accept our own military?"

Kind of says it all about the lib mind doesn't it.

They make sure someone who would take their rights away from them is protected while denying the ones who protect those rights for them.

ALL
NYC Dogg bleated:

"Please - the guys I met at Lackland were just a few levels above PIN SETTER."

Now, is it me or do all liberals seem arrogant and elitist!?

NYC DOGG, you were probably craping in your three-cornered skivvies the first time that DI got into your grill.

An injury? How? Trip on your lower lip?

for allen
allen asks: "Can any of you recommend a conservative site that has the same variety and depth of articles that TH carries along with comments -- but where the liberal nonsense-comments are deleted by the webmaster (the way the lib sites delete conservative comments)?"

The obvious choice is LittleGreenFootballs.com

Charles Johnson, the moderator, designed the site himself and it's more stable and slicker than townhall.com

And on it, he routinely bans the accounts of left-wing trolls. In fact, until recently he banned ANY posts that were critical of the Iraq War.

An alternative is freerepublic.com

Their moderator is a social conservative who has even banned posts favoring Rudy Giuliani for President, because the moderator believes Rudy Giuliani is not worthy of being called a Republican. So not only aren't left-wing posts accepted on that blog, but even pro-Giuliani posts aren't accepted either.

SteveL
Take a bow.

Too bad we can't tattoo those words on their foreheads, backwards, so they read them every morning.

for NYC Dogg
NYC Dogg writes: "maybe YOUR posts will be flagged!"

You know,
I was actually banned from LittleGreenFootballs.com because I dared to criticize President Bush--from the RIGHT.

I was totally opposed to fighting touchy-feely "hearts and minds" wars with "limited footprints," which was the way Bush and Rumsfeld chose to fight the Iraq War. But since that amounted to a criticism of our Maximum Leader, LGF's moderator retaliated by removing my account.

Whereas here on townhall.com, I am routinely attacked as a "liberal" because I'm not anti-gay or anti-abortion.

So I guess that makes me a man without a blog.

NYC LOGG (turd)
"Hey Gunny - you buddies with any of the Balckwater war criminals? Since you never actually FOUGHT in a war, it's good to see you making money off of this one..."

Actually I know a few on PSD in the Green Zone.

I'm bet a month's wages you would not say that to their faces.

Also, I'd stack MY war record up against YOURS anyday little boy and add ANOTHER month's wages on that!

NYC Dogg
haha. You're so clueless it's pathetic.

We usually never discuss our service until some daiper stain like you arrives.

Quite obviously you have a wicked case of p*nis envy towards Marines. Let me guess, they stamped you a non-hacker and sent you on your way.

RETSSGT
FUNNY!

Yeah, he was the guy who cut the grass for the Embassy.

grass cutter/leaf raker, about his specialty.

Columbia the Beacon of Truth!! not
Bollinger was full of false bravado, hoping to escape with the shirt on his back after this fiasco. He must have died to hear his student body applaud loudly for Ahmadinejad as he complained of Bollinger lashing wet noodle like at him.

As far as most of us are concerned, there's plenty of free speech in this country. Try getting anyone to shut up. But curiously, dare I say hypocritically, Columbia refuses to allow certain speakers they disagree with on campus. One can only assume the reason Ahmadinejad was invited had very little to do with dialogue..instead it made a fairly accurate statement to the world by providing him with a coming out party.
Here is a midget sized terrorist lecturing (that's what the Iranian papers described it as) at a US ivy league university. Students listened politely as if they were taking tea with the queen, even applauding (oh gee thanks so much) when he generously invites them to Iran. Hey,that's cool, don't look back kids. It may not be akin to backpacking in Europe but you will never forget it. Make sure you leave your pot & porn behind or you may never seen mom, dad & the dog again.

The only thing that seemed to ruffle Columbia student body was the remark about no gays in Iran. Now that freaked them out a bit. Whatever. But please, just stop preening & patting yourselves on the shoulder while you crow, "we really showed him", when a more accurate description would indicate Columbia student body behaved like a herd of sheep. Where oh where was that student from UF? Now that would have really got the party going.

Well, Columbia, thank you for your gracious hospitality & enlightenment. You certainly have done your job. Wouldn't be surprised if Ahmadinejad will be back to rush a frat at Yale next. Better still, this being America, aim for the stars. Go for Harvard.

Iran
Gee... why don't we invite Osama bin Laden for a tour of the White house, or NORAD, or Area 51??? This country is getting filled with STUPID people who coddle terrorists... I am moving to the moon...

Delusion of Left's ideology
Leftists believe that everybody should be given equal opportunity including those wanted to kill Jews, American and Christians. I just don't understand, they willing to tolerate people who advance the civilization of death and intolerance while they hating US military and those who wanted to promote the civilization of freedom.

After all they are leaning toward communism and a perfect system for tyrant. Sickening.

I'm so embarrassed
If Queenie was actually in, he claims it was the Air Force.

If you were in your elitist knowitall attitude would have made your life miserable anyway. Good think you came up with an out, or was that why you got injured?

speech
The U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of freedom of speech to American Citizens, not to foreign dictators. Hence, Ahmadinejad has exactly as much of a "right" to freedom of speech here as I would have in Teheran.
Columbia University, as a pseudo private institution can invite anyone they want to speak there. During the discussion of Ahmadinejad's visit, some academic moron at Collumbia said they would invite Hitler if he would accept. I would actually go to see that, and I assume the next speaker would be Elvis, but I digress.
Columbia receives a large amount of taxpayer's money from the Federal Treasury, which should be cut off as a result of their support of our enemies.
The sad truth is, however, that this entire freak show should never have happened. Our President should have had the courage to inform Ahmadinejad that he would be permitted to land at Kennedy Airport, where he would receive none of the customary diplomatic courtesies for heads of state. Any bodyguards he had would be disarmed prior to being allowed to leave the airport. He would then be escorted by NYPD or NY State Troopers, no Secret Service, directly to the UN. When he had finishecd his business in that building, he would be escorted directly back to Kennedy, and he would then leave our country, maing no side trips nor appearances anywhere else in our country. What would have been the consequences for President Bush had he undertaken this course of action? The peoplole who currently hate him, would continue to hate him.
It appears to me that in order to be a "successful" politician, one must undergo a removal of one's spinal cord.

for Robert
Robert writes: "It is no different from the Germans sinking the USS Rueben James...she was after all attacking the UBOAT that got her.

FDR passed."

FALSE.
After the Reuben James was sunk, FDR called on Congress to repeal the Neutrality Act (so that America could at least sell military aid to our allies like Britain)--but the isolationists in Congress refused to go along with it.

So blame them, not FDR.

My answer
Unca Alby writes: 2:12 AM


Scout -- on One Night vs. Six Years
-- who knows, maybe he's seen the light?
------------------------
ts:
And he is a College Dean?
Pretty slow
----------------
Unca Alby writes:
I mean, look, you can berate the guy for being a liberal. I got no problems with that. But if he's going to say something right, and you're *STILL* going to berate him?
---------------

ts:
Must be reading others, not me.
I have not berated the man, unless asking why he all of a sudden(media and press opportunity) gets true religion concerning the goals of the terrorist supporting Iran.
Its been public knowledge since 1979.

--------------------------
Unca Alby writes:
It's like they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
--------
ts:
When has asking a question been damning?
When it stikes home and brings conviction to a hypocrite I guess is all I can thing of.

-------------------
Unca Alby writes:

If they say something liberal and get roasted in the conservative press, well they deserve it. But if they say something conservative, and then the conservative press merely questions their sincerity, and *still* roasts them?
--------------------
ts:
No need for the sermons.
I live here in the world too, and was not born this morning.

He appears to be a hypocrite, makes him undefendable, for me anyway.
------------------
Unca Alby writes:

So give 'em a little credit once in a while, when credit is due.
-------------
ts:

Ok, when he deserves it I will give it

Bollinger Crawls
When Duncan Hunter proposed a bill to totally deny any federal funding to Columbia, as did the New York State legislature and the New York City Council (and probably a whole bunch of Columbia's alumni) all of a sudden Bollinger's high ideals melted and he cooked up that phony, weak anti-Ahmadinejad speech. This whole incident points out what a pack of traitors the libs in this country have become. They were ready to sit back and laugh heartily as another enemy of this country stood in the city where his fellow Islamonazis murdered three thousand people and drooled insults to President Bush. If those Right-Wingers, with their talk radio and the internet, hadnt gone ballistic thats exactly what would have happened. Werent they happy to laud viscious dictator Hugo Chavez after he called President Bush Satan. They said themselves, Hitler would have been welcome, certainly Castro was. Part of the left-wing pathology is to suck up to evil dictators because it gives them (who are generally held in contempt by people with any sense) hope that someday they'll have the power to do to their critics what the dictators do to theirs. Cut their funding.

Try and keep up
>explain why Columbia bans the military that protects their right to do this stuff,<

Columbia doesn't ban the military. ROTC is offered, participation is at Fordham or Manhattan Colleges. Only two of the Ivy League schools - Cornell and Princeton - offer access to ROTC. And even then, you have to enroll through an affiliated college/university.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/rotc/


NYC Dogg
The Air Force doesn't have DIs. Any dim bulb who stumbles off the bus at Lackland knows that they have MTIs (Military Training Instructors). Perhaps you disparage them so because you couldn't hack it in what was the least physically demanding branch of the armed forces. Just as well; wouldn’t want you in my beloved Air Force any longer than it takes to file the discharge papers.

This is one of the best results
of free speech. This darling of the left--an enemy(Acmadinijad?) of my enemy(George Bush) is my friend--made them look pathetic. His views are odious and simplistic and make George W look like a Rhodes Scholar, Nobel Peace Prize winner and Heisman trophy candidate by comparison, are welcomed apparently by the left. I wouldn't have missed this show for the world. Maybe Columbia can invite Chavez and Castro too and humiliate them more. I give Bollinger kudos for his speech.


reply to Uncle Alby
Don't worry, Alby, conservatives like Dave Limbaugh and most TH readers will figure out some way to call Columbia president Bollinger a liberal traitor, no matter how much he blasted Ahmadinejad. What real conservatives want has little to do with ideals like freedom of speech; they would have preferred an assassination.

for wbheff
wbheff writes: "The U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of freedom of speech to American Citizens, not to foreign dictators."

Not true (unfortunately).

Read the Constitution carefully. The Bill of Rights applies to all "PERSONS" in the United States, not just to citizens. A foreign visitor to America, say a tourist, has just as much right to voice his political opinion here as you and I do.

But fortunately that's NOT the issue here.

Ahmedinijad has a Constitutional right to not be banned from speaking by our Government. But that doesn't mean Columbia, as a private institution, is obligated to give him a forum either. That's a choice they made, and I think it was a bad choice.

not just unpatriotic, it was
just plain stupid. All else aside, common sense should take over at some point. Since when is it a good idea to let the thief inside your house? Is it so that you can get his explanation of why he wants to take away your personal treasures?

Queenie
Wearing your Code Pink T-shirt right now as you stick pins into your GI Joe?

Try and keep up II
>Part of the left-wing pathology is to suck up to evil dictators<

That pathology isn't restricted to left-wing. When it is in our interests, we have and do suck up to dictators. In the past, Marcos, Somoza, Pinochet and Suharto to name a few; in the present Mubarak, Musharaff, Obiang and Aliyev.

Repubs/Cons: Being the MINORITY Sucks
Repubs/cons are in a serious funk that is causing them to explode and strike in frustration at any percieved slight, deviation or rejection of their propaganda and dogma.

It all started going downhill with Democrats taking over control of both houses of Congress at midterms 2004 and it's gotten progressivey
worse for them since.

With a highly unpopular Republican Prez Bush in the White House presiding over a equally unpopular Iraq War, immigration reform splitting the repub party down the middle, group of lackluster presidential candidates for 2008, and the higly likely prospects of a President Hillary Clinton and Democrats maintaining control of both houses of congress while adding more seats to their majority totals, repubs/cons should be observed closely for suicide watch because:

BEING THE MINORITY SUCKS

not peaceful
I liked your post, acetate. The reason 'moderate' Moslems don't protest the genocide their extremists execute is that Islam is not a peaceful religion. And CoulterHeist, love those little Rescue Rangers -- making the world safe for Islamofascism and the dailycouscous.

What a COMPLETE RUSE
That Columbia U holds itself up as a bastion of free speech. BS!!! ROTC was kicked off campus. So its ok to give a state sponser of terror a podium, but not to let ROTC form a group on thier campus. Limbaug has nailed it. Seletive First Amendment Affinity.

Truly laughable

Max Power
>Columbia has a left-wing bias that is so blatant Stevie Wonder could see it.<

Completely irrelevant to the post I made. Not only can you not keep up, you can't even begin.
This country, regardless of left or right leadership, deals with dictators when it suits our purposes. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative.

Max Power
That's all Robert aka Jetpilot have when "they're" not out flying F-15's, bombing Serbs, taking Blackhawk training, shuttle pilot training, skydiving, and any other dangerous exploit!

Guy's a legend in his own mind.

RETSSGT
Funny how the libturds overlook that Hanoi John gave FALSE testimony to the Senate in 1971.

He not only is a 90 day wonder in VN but also a perjuror who smeared even honorable VNV with that pack of lies.

Robert
THANK YOU for writing the below - well said

Robert writes: Tuesday, September, 25, 2007 10:37 AM
I regret how Mr. Kerry
RETSSGT writes: Tuesday, September, 25, 2007 10:27 AM
...came home and said somethings...

but you know it was his right both as an American and as someone who volunteered to go.

People react to what they see in war, in combat different ways.

Mr. Bush and his crowd wouldnt know anything about that...they dont have a clue of the perspective.

I've known people who had 15 minutes of it (combat) and then it was over and yet they are spent for their lives. That was all they had and they gave it all and they have problems dealing with what they did.

I've known people who have been in Iraq, Fallujah and Ramadi for two 15 month tours and it doesnt phase them, they are still more or less (more or less) the same people who they were when they came.


BUT THEY BOTH WENT WHEN THE BUGLE CALLED.




Cant say that about Mr. Bush and Cheney can you.

and yet they felt capable of raggin on people who did.

And you support those people.

Robert

Late to the party
But whether or not is protected by speech, (I don't think it is) it is absolutely horrible taste. Why in the world would they allow this enemy of ours a forum? It makes absolutely no sense. Do you think Bush would get a forum in Iran? And what is gained by allowing him? Its just ridiculous, and I can't help think of Neville Chamberlain...

hypocrisy
Have not read every single post here, but...

"If Columbia were serious about its openness to all ideas, it wouldn't have revoked its speaking invitation to the Minuteman Project's Jim Gilchrest."

Ok now, so Columbia can certainly choose to air the viewpoints of a murderous moslem nut-job, or deny those of one that cares to put up a fence on our border. That they can claim to be a fair voice to all viewpoints is not only phony, it's not even desireable. Their schill is about hiding the fact that they are in fact supporters of this despote and hate America in kind. What truly amazes is that these moonbats believe their own hogwash as they rewrite history each morning when they wake up. Life is always great in fantasy-land.

Folks
Go slowly through these posts and notice the desperate effort to avoid accountability for Iraq and Osama.

You failed and now you are failing the troops! No time to trade barbs as I am working on a deadline but I suspect that all you pseudo soldiers and the one mercenary manager type know it

It is over

Bollinger
Is a Liberal Bedwetter of an America Hating Coward. The Minutemen were PHYSICALLY ATTACKED and Bollinger did NOTHING! He only made a speech against That Muslim Animal (I repeat myself) because he was afraid donations to Columbia would dry up. Bollinger should put on a fresh Depens, get his Security Blanket and go back to sucking his thumb while reading Communist Manifesto.

Robert
See Bman1 knows it is finished LOL. Has he started his confused sexual type comments yet? I swear he is like Craig only in drag LOL.


Fine, Max
Columbia is a liberal institution and Bollinger is a left-wing subversive who should be branded as a traitor and imprisoned.

Now can I join the far right sheep club?

NYC QUEEN
Sorry, I'm not buying it anymore. When you said DI's you ruined it. Besides your obviously not too knowledgeable on the subject either.

First Amendment Bush-style
I love it when the Right gets all First Amendment on us.

Let's picture this: Imagine George Bush speaking in front of the same audience at Columbia University, facing the same questions and the same responses to his words. You can't, because that wouldn't happen here in the US, with this president.

Bush would have pre-screened the attendees and the questions. He would've had dissenters extricated and/or arrested. Anyone with an anti-war, anti-Bush bumper sticker or Tee shirt wouldn't have been allowed into the speech and no questions that didn't ask about his faith, his "good work" his "hard work" and Barney would've been tossed.

This is what we call the First Amendment here in America....

Bollinger embarrassed America
when one of his most pressing questions was about how homosexuals are treated in Iran. We have so many pressing concerns about the volatile instability of the middle east, and yet he throws that out as if its the major concern of the American people.

No wonder they have no respect for us over there. They think Americans are a bunch of sexual deviants.

talisman
"Imagine George Bush speaking in front of the same audience at Columbia University, facing the same questions and the same responses to his words. You can't, because that wouldn't happen here in the US, with this president."

Just what planet are you from? These exact things have happened to our president. The only difference is, he would never be invited to Columbia because he's not "politically correct."

"Bush would have pre-screened the attendees and the questions. He would've had dissenters extricated and/or arrested. Anyone with an anti-war, anti-Bush bumper sticker or Tee shirt wouldn't have been allowed into the speech and no questions that didn't ask about his faith, his "good work" his "hard work" and Barney would've been tossed."

I think you should see a psychiatrist. You clearly suffer from delusions of persecution.

Hal
Aren't you the one who said Theodore Roosevelt opposed American involvement in World War I? Many of us are still waiting to see the documentation you promised to show us.

posts
Gunnyg, calling liberals "liars" will only endear you to them.

Academia makes the most of it's moral claim to tolerance when it comes to Amercia-hating whack jobs, be they loopy dictators or psycho-profs from Colorado. But try booking Ann Coulter; can't tolerate that!

If it doesn't make sense,
-there is probably a buck in it.
I'm thinking Columbia's leadership must have made some big bucks inviting Al Presidente'

There was no redeeming quality to the appearance. Those that wax elequent about Columbia's decision probably just have never been a real fight with evil.

Robert
"Learn to read history...you will be a better person. See I know history!"

I have a bachelor's degree in history, and I'm quite well read in that field. You don't know much history if you think Teddy Roosevelt opposed our involvement in World War I. His only criticism was that we did not get involved sooner than we did.


AquaVelvajad!
Who coined that? Ken? Funny!

Words from horse face's own mouth

Gunny Says:
"Funny how the libturds overlook that Hanoi John gave FALSE testimony to the Senate in 1971.

He not only is a 90 day wonder in VN but also a perjuror who smeared even honorable VNV with that pack of lies."
----------

NYC DOGG writes: 11:12 AM

Sure, he did, Gunny - sure he did...
--------------------

John Kerry would ask for a Silver Star if he rowed a swift boat through New Orleans.

http://25thaviation.org/johnkerry/

He did admit he "stretched" the truth.
Understatement that it is

Except it didn't
>I knew his speech would expose him for the nutjob he is.<

The reality is that he backed off from his past radical rhetoric, and attempted to present a moderate stance. Likely this is under orders from the ruling mullahs, who have voiced their displeasure with Ahmadinejad's fiery rhetoric in the past.

Islamic News
Read the report of the Islamic Press about the speech at Colombia. The report states that the great el presidente received a number of standing ovations from the attendees at the speech. No mention of Bollinger words.

RETSSGT
LOL!

I just slapped that in there to test y'all.

Although I've gotten anonymous emails asking about a date with this greasy BBW signed Bubba.

Can't figure out who it is.

Leo
Yawn! Tell Ann Coulter and Pat Buchanan about the way liberals uphold free speech. Ronald Reagan said it best: "Liberals will defend to the death your right to agree with them."

pdm
How about "Mockmoo imadinnerjacket" I have to credit bruce with that one.

All
In case you haven't guessed it, censored is TCA.

The same guy who desperately wanted to debate BrianR and then pulled a Hanoi John Kerry on a thread when Brian showed up.

Just another lefty whiner


Free Speech
Columbia exercised poor judgement in inviting this monster into its midst. However, it speaks to the mindset of university acedemics.

Don't claim you are "raising the level of discourse" by allowing contriversial figures the pulpit, and then turn around and deny the Jim Gilchrist of the Minuteman project the same right. I should think that illegal immigration is controversial enough to provoke a good solid debate.

Universities on the whole are pitching an agenda that is far left. For private universities this is their right, however, don't try to disquise it as an open exchange of ideas. You are only promoting the open exchange of ideas that suit your purpose.

The far left calls the Iranian dictator a monster while at the same time praising him for his hard stand on George Bush. This is becoming a famous stance of the left; Moral equivilence. George Bush votes against gay marriage, Ahmadinejad just has gay men killed...see...they are both bad. Huh?!?!?

Keep in mind that this "man" got a standing ovation at Columbia. Why? The answer is pretty clear; because he says things that are against George Bush. What other conclusion should we draw?

ken
if liberals value the right to free speech explain all those on the left who want to re-enact the fairness doctrine.Despite the opportunities to get their message out the libs aren't satisfied with controlling the msm, but have continued failure with the likes of any lib equivilent to rush. Libs hate the power of talk radio and haven't solved the mystery of why it is a success. Discussing issues over perpetual why I hate the president doesn't sell. Libs are for controlling any speech that comes from the opposition

Robert
Have a nice time at "training."

Be sure to wait a few minuets before posting as jetpilot.

wack minimidget iwanna jihad
exactly what did columbia expect this nutcase to bring of value to columbia. He has been spouting nonsense and hatred since his days as an embassy hostage taker, refined them as mayor of tehran and now has a world stage as president of iran. Of course he is a mere puppet to the mad mullahs but he spews their official line. Perhaps columbia thought this idiot was suddenly going to renounce terrorism and start universal peace while flying to israel and leading a chorus of kumbaya. Big surprise he echoed his past idiocies. Now he will speak to the un before heading off to spend time with his good bud hugo.

talent scout
Those who need to know where I am, and there are a few here, know.

little girls like censored (TCA), who lurk in their mommie's basement...at 35 y.o., don't.

TCA (censored) is the kinda of vermin that march at anti-war rallies, holding up signs that say: "we'll support the troops when they shoot their officers."

I saw his kind in action in Oakland as a kid.

coultergeist
I see you are another one that thinks freedom of speech is only for you.

No one here cares about the left wing propaganda on DailyKos. And it is all propaganda and hate speech.

Yes, we all see your bravery, wimp
censored writes: Tuesday, September, 25, 2007 11:59 AM

talent
"I would like to see this coward tell it to Gunny's face as he does on the internet"
-----------

censored writes: 11:59 AM

-anyday. you think i'm afraid of someone who has already proven they are to scared to fight for what they believe in?
----------------

Takes a genuine, blue ribbon, authentic coward, hypocrite, low life, sneaky wimp to write to a man, any man what you do from a mouth filled with slime.

You are a coward of the lowest order

I see
many libs here see this an opportunity for free speech. Yet you fail to see it is an opportunity for propaganda for Iran.

Unca Alby
I'd rather have seen Columbia U give the guy a megaphone and put him on a street corner (with an interpreter, of course). That way, we get to showcase freedom of speech and at the same time give the guy the forum of which he is deserving. Broadcast that all over the middle east and their will be absolutely no confusion about how he was received in the US.

censored
Try to get into an "all-TOO-common" position of English 101 because your posts have the spelling and grammar structure of a 3rd grader.

Didn't you claim you were a teacher?

WTF school hires YOU? Idiots for idiots?

I see
Robert is touting the same garbage that he touted months ago and called on. Historical genius you are not.

Some things never change.

Lolo1
That's because libs refuse to stand for anything and thus, get bent over for everything.

But then again, I heard that they like it like that!

wildwest
"if liberals value the right to free speech explain all those on the left who want to re-enact the fairness doctrine."

I'm not sure if you understood me. I don't think liberals value free speech - except, of course, for those who share their views. You do bring up a great point about the Fairness Doctrine.

If liberals want equal time on talk radio, why don't they launch their own networks? Oops, I forgot! They already did that, didn't they? They had everything they needed for a successful network - except listeners.

The Fairness Doctrine fairly represents the liberal mindset: if you can't beat 'em, regulate 'em.

Freedom of speech
Is one thing
Every fool on earth has a mouth to speak, they do not have the right to be heard.

But because they are not listened to, they must act like keyboard tough guys as this punk censored, and offer puke from a screaming girlie mouth.

I appreciate the men like you Gunny, may America always be blessed with men of your caliber.


reply to Motley Crue
AT least there's one thing conservatives and jihadists agree upon--hostility to gays. Real conservatives must long to be able to say something like this: "Not only does our society not have any gays in it, but we punish those who are there when we find them." This, of course, is what Ahmadinejad would have said if he'd been interested in telling the truth.

censored
"you can't support this war from your living room and think of yourself as anything more than a pus."

Is that the best you can do? You keep repeating this tired schtict over and over again.

It is nonsense to believe that someone can't support the war unless he enlists to fight in it.

That's like saying that I can't adamently believe that rapists should be jailed without actually joining the police force myself.

But, just to humor you and return to your inane taunt, let's put the shoe on the other foot. You can't seriously be against the war unless you camp out with Cindy Sheehan and attend every anti-war protest as possible round the clock.

And don't give me any excuses like:

I can't. I have a job I worked too hard to get.

I can't. I am attending college.

I can't. I have a family to take care of.

Or any other lame excuses. Because, according to your twisted logic, if you don't walk the talk then you are simply a hypocrite.

Are you up to the challenge? I doubt it. Until you can provide any proof that you have abandoned your job and are on the anti war protest circuit full time, non stop, you are to be regarded as nothing more than an arrogant hypocrite.

After all, that is what you want pro-war supporters to do. To abandon their jobs, families, and go full time into the war themselves.

Same applies to you.

By the way, your monicker is lame. You are obviously not being censored in any way. Your claptrap is coming through just fine.

Speaking of Free Speech
here's how liberals in San Fruitcisco handle freedom of speech.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=5673526

Nice.

Max Power
He's been everything from a lion tamer to a teacher to a pilot, and everything in between.

I guess he has trouble separating his XBox life from reality.

livefreeordie 12:12
Yes. And what if that crowd begins stoning him in protest? Oh, the philosophical PICKLE!


livefreeordie 12:12
Yes. And what if that crowd begins stoning him in protest? Oh, the philosophical PICKLE!

bman
are you know telling me that our good bud rocker might be a switch hitter. I am shocked by that speculation. But it seems the only thing that truly outraged the columbia crowd was iran's reported treatment of their gay citizens. Gays assure us that perhaps 10% of americans are of that persuasion. If similar numbers occur in iran perhaps that accounts for their number of daily executions. But we are assured the iranians are tolerant and peace loving folks. I guess I can't see the disconnect. but I am sure our resident expert on everything will enlighten us all

Once upon a time ...
there were several conservative posters on TH that I respected. After reading a number of 2nd grade responses similar to "I know you are but what am I?", I'm left a little bewildered. We, as conservatives, have a legitmate beef with the leftist at universities across America shouting down and drowning out conservative views that oppose their own. So why is it okay for us to do likewise? The Biblical admonition of "Do unto others ..." doesn't say to do so only if others do likewise. Everyone, take a step back and look at the silliness that's going on with some of the posts. For Pete's sake people, let's get beyond the schoolyard taunts.

talent scout
Thanks but there is a lot of us here. Brian, CVN65, NamVet, tunneler, The Crawfish, patriotdefender, Nee, and a host of others. As I stated to a poster on my blog, just because you did not serve does not disqualify from being one of us. If you support us, YOU ARE US!

Indeed, MarineDad is the proud poppa of a Devil Dog serving near me in Baghdad.

The lines are being clearly drawn as to who IS and who ISN'T for us.


GunnyG
That is absolutely right. For a liberal, a day without a cause is a day without sunshine. They wallow in melodrama. It is their life blood.

censored/TCA
"cindy sheehan? why would i "join" her, she's nuts."

That's the FACE of the Dhimmicratic Party. YOUR party!

I see
tca...er...I mean censored has really gone off the ranch.


talent scout

censored said this to several of us :" you were a tool of the war machine. you made things worse." in a prior "personality".

maybe he really means sensored as in bugged,



GunnyG
There is no freedom of speech in SF and there hasn't been since the mid-sixties.

liberal load of dung
I see the liberals here are trying to equate conservatives with terrorists and Islam. Last I checked no one has been stoned to death here for being gay. Or dumped into a pit and a wall dropped on them so they slowly starve to death in their own filth. Or hung.

Hysteria will not bolster you, but it will get you discounted immediately no matter what side of the aisle you reside.

FROG
When we want to hold civil discussions, we usually hang at a blog, Brian's, mine, The Crawfish's, and civilly discuss stuff.

Here the masochists libs like Robert aka jetpilot, censored aka TCA, HalD, lilly, etc, come for their daily spanking.

We spank em, tell them we hate them, and they go away with that "I just got done" look on their grills, happy for the day.

Um, Leo
just a question...Do you think anyone who doesn't support gay marriage hates people who are gay? That seems like a big jump to me. Where are the "fundamentalist Christians" who are flying airplanes into buildings? Using suicide bombs to blow people to bits? How are Christians "just as bad"??


Lolo1
Have you checked the articles on my blog, Liberal Hysteria in recent history?

These girls have been at it since 1878, doing the Chicken Little thing!

Leo
"Both aim to hurt gays, both believe that gays and gay lives are expendable and both believe to be better than any gay person. So in many ways they're similar"

I am not sure how to debate you if you are going to just insert conjecture for fact. Iran killed two men for being gay a couple of weeks ago and denied that gay people exist in their country yesterday.

You prove my point with your moral equivilence. There is NOTHING in Bush's past that suggest as you put it that he believes gay people are expendible. That is your supposition, but it is not even remotely supported by facts. There are sensible reasons outside of religion or a dislike of gay people to debate gay marriage.

We could get in a big debate over gay marriage, but that wasn't the point of what I said. One doesn't even come remotely close to equaling the other. Take away the gay component and insert womens rights. There is nothing in George Bush's past that suggest he is against womens rights, but the left cuts him no slack, while this Iranian dictator who has a long history of womens rights violations is cut slack because he is against the policies of the United State?

Somewhere along the way the left lost its way. It went from appropriately questioning the United States to believing we are wrong in all things. They question everything in our history but don't seem to question the other countries that they raise up.

Terrorism and Hypocracy!
So Iran supports the resistance movement in Iraq against the illegal American occupation of Iraq EXACTLY as the USA supported the "terrorists" in Afghanistan including Bin Laden against the Soviet occupiers! Exactly if some country tried to occupy the USA...would not many American and Canadians rise up and use terrorism against anyone who occupied the USA??? What a bunch of right wing cry babies including Bush who complain about Iran...supporting people who are fighting against the USA who are illegaly(the USA) occupying Iraq IN VIOLATION OF THE UNITED NATINS SECURITY COUNCIL!

Freedom of Speech
Lets jus say that this tyrant has freedom of speech in the United states. Why in the world would a college give him a platform to spew it?

Columbia had the RIGHT to do it true, but was it the RIGHT thing to do? Having a Right, and using it rightly, are two different things.

To give a platform to a dictator, that the day before he left Iran had a parade with banners saying "Death to America" and "Death To Israel", on them, was a total lack of good judgement, and was a very unpatriotic thing to do.


Leo
Typical liberal hysteria that negates history and lives in the realm of no fact. The fact of the matter is when people commit crimes against gays they are prosecuted. I seem to remember a case in Wyoming...do you? What was the outcome of the case? We have laws moron.

Do not attempt to lump myself and other conservatives into your hysterical judgmental stereotyping. I have never advocated for killing gays.

Funny thing about liberals. They scream and rage about passing judgment and stereotyping yet they rush to it and try to pass it off as fact.

Leo
"Conservative Christians disagree with gays in same way KK disagrees with blacks and nneonazis disagree with Jews. Or Ahamdinejad disagrees with Jews."

Still on crack this morning are you?
Perhaps you will let me know when "conservative christians" have executed gays in this coutry, like Ahamdinejad has, yes?
I think one man having sex with another an is a perversion. That doesn't mean I go out and execute anyone. It happens to be aginst the law in this country.
Liberalism is indeed diseease.
BTW, how is Kos/moveon this morning?


Leo
But that was my question to you ... how are Christians "hurting" those they disagree with? I understand that they elected a president that you do not like, but everyone has a right to vote. Where are the stonings, lynchings, killings, rights taken away? How have they "maimed" people with which they disagree?


Harry
In case you hadn't noticed we elect our government officials not the UN. We don't answer to the UN because we are a sovereign nation that does have the right to defend and protect ourselves.

When was the last time you voted and elected someone to the UN? If you didn't, which is true, why would you let them dictate policy in this country that is against the interests of this country? Why would you let a corrupt organization dictate any policy? We would not had to go into Iraq if it weren't for the UN and the Oil for food Scam.

I don't think you have the intellect for this forum.

GunnyG
Just posted on your MIT blog. I will go and check the other columns as well.

nanna
check my link that I posted at 1225. This is how Iran News reported it.

President "Im-in-a-Jihad's" big adventure!

Columbia University is a disgrace
I say move that Columbia University abomination to Iran, the whole lot of screaming loony left crazy vermin of them.
Let them go experience what it is like to live under the "oh so cute" Ahamdinejad. And they can stay there for good.

Max Power
Answer: Don't.

Really debating liberals is an exercise in futility on a good day.

They claim to LOVE their country, but then make assertions like that one. All in the name of "patriotically" speaking "truth to power". This "truth to power" apparently does not apply to the dictators they support (Chavez, Castro, Ahmadinejad).

SteveR
I think he burnt his lips on that crack pipe.

Max Power
Answer: Don't.

Really debating liberals is an exercise in futility on a good day.

They claim to LOVE their country, but then make assertions like that one. All in the name of "patriotically" speaking "truth to power". This "truth to power" apparently does not apply to the dictators they support (Chavez, Castro, Ahmadinejad).

"Harry"
Back to the nut house with you, boy.
Who let you out anyways?

columbia
public funding should be witheld from this institution. taxpayers should not support this kind of gibberish.

SteveR
"I say move that Columbia University abomination to Iran, the whole lot of screaming loony left crazy vermin of them.
Let them go experience what it is like to live under the "oh so cute" Ahamdinejad. And they can stay there for good."

Amen! I wouldn't hold my breath, though. The liberal lefties out in Hollywood promised to leave the country if Bush were re-elected in '04. We're still waiting for them to fulfill that promise.

maxpower
Indeed, ignoring liberal lunacy is about the only defense. Engaging them merely grants you admission to their psycho ward without anything to show for it and precious little chance of getting out. No; it remains a pointless exercise however attractive it may seem, and perhaps valiant, to try and reform a moonbat. Some things are truly beyond redemption.

Leo
Here is my 12 step program for liberals.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/12d2bcfe-7679-4caa-a35a-e602fc908dfe

You may need to repeat as required.

Max Power
Max Power writes: "But what the liberals are posting here today is just complete garbage."

It's easy.
Liberals are the scum of the earth, and liberalism is a serious disease.
Plus of course, vermin like George Soros(the most evil man in America), continue to pay all the mad men they can find, to post garbage at conservative sites.
NO problem. We will deal with these cretins.

Leo
You're right Gilchrist was invited to speak. It was the "open minded" students that threatened him until he had to leave the stage. The same students that gave a standing ovation to Ahmadinejad.

But I have to admit that technically you were right...but it changes absolutely nothing about my post.

Go open exchange of IDEAS!!!


GunnyG
Can you send Harry there as well?

Leo
Here is my 12 step program for liberals.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/12d2bcfe-7679-4caa-a35a-e602fc908dfe

You may need to repeat as required.

LEO
Liberals Definition of hate speech:

You don't agree with ME!

Leo
Here is my 12 step program for liberals.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/12d2bcfe-7679-4caa-a35a-e602fc908dfe

You may need to repeat as required.

Leo
"Anything that bhurts gays, gay relationships and hurts the children they raise is what Christians do" NOTE: Not radical fringe groups, but christians.

So something in the manner of 84% of the country (Christians) are against gay people? Wow...but Bush is the fear monger.

Are there extreme Christian groups that hate gays? I have zero doubt that there are, and they will actively look to hurt this group.

Is that the norm and does Bush or the US government support them (other than their right to lobby --- even though they fail)? Nope.

If you look at gays in the general community, their treatment over the past three decades is getting better and better...so why the hate speech against Christians?

Leo
Where is the fact to back up your conjecture?

Leo
"Anything that bhurts gays, gay relationships and hurts the children they raise is what Christians do" NOTE: Not radical fringe groups, but christians.

So something in the manner of 84% of the country (Christians) are against gay people? Wow...but Bush is the fear monger.

Are there extreme Christian groups that hate gays? I have zero doubt that there are, and they will actively look to hurt this group.

Is that the norm and does Bush or the US government support them (other than their right to lobby --- even though they fail)? Nope.

If you look at gays in the general community, their treatment over the past three decades is getting better and better...so why the hate speech against Christians?

LMAO
Not only is Leo hysterical foaming at the mouth ridiculous, he has now become what he fears the most...A BIGOT!!!!!

Leo
My bust, I forgot that you liberals have a problem with facts and logic.

But let it never be said that I didn't offer help to stricken libs.

JMind
JMind writes: "You're right Gilchrist was invited to speak. It was the "open minded" students that threatened him until he had to leave the stage. The same students that gave a standing ovation to Ahmadinejad"

The mind simply boggles.
Here we have a bunch of university "elites" giving standing ovations to about the most evil man on the planet. Hitler should have come given s speech at Columbia. They'd have simply loved him.
Proof(if any more proof were needed), that sending someone to an "elite" university to read books can still leave him as retarded as ever.
Someone 'xplain to me, why on earth we are wasting tax-payers money on these vermin?

Leo
My bust, I forgot that you liberals have a problem with facts and logic.

But let it never be said that I didn't offer help to stricken libs.

Lolo1
Didn't you realize that the only group that is not protected by liberals is Christians.

Islamic Terrorists aren't so bad. Suicide bombings, beheadings are all justifiable given the US foreign policy.

But Christians are going to take over and demand that Hollywood is not the moral standard of the times...that HAS TO BE STOPPED!!!


RETSSGT
Nah, I heard that it was 500 gays and that is was when the Marines let out a thunderous, OOHRAH, the gays had a collective heart attack.

Leo
Is your last name Terrell, by any chance? That's the guy who regularly goes on Sean Hannity's program, screams his head off for a few minutes, and then hangs up. He was on Hannity & Colmes last week, and walked off the show before Hannity could even ask him a question.

You may not be Leo Terrell, but your style is about as childish as his.

Max Power
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a stick in the mud and I love sarcasm just as much as the next yayhoo. I just think that we get bogged down in silliness. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I thought this response by Gunny was funny: "We spank em, tell them we hate them, and they go away with that "I just got done" look on their grills, happy for the day."

I know a lot of libs and some of them do just want to pull the tiger's tail. When they do that, they should just be ignored like the little children they are. If they want to discuss things rationally without all the hyperbole (which from what I've experienced is difficult for a lot of libs), then let's have at it.

A great motto to live and blog by: "Don't feed the trolls!"

Objectivity in the news
Edward R Murrow, hero of journalism and the left, was not the least bit ambivilant in his reporting about the Blitz, or the horrors of the concentration camps. He did not morally equivocate between Hitler and Roosevelt, he did not feel the need to expose the weaknesses of the Allied Forces, or complain about the cost of the war.

To do such reporting today is to be accused of Jingoism, and being a lapdog for the president. But there is nothing wrong with reporters doing their part to help America win the war on terror.

Leo
You are completely ridiculous. You know NOTHING of Christianity. You are either posturing or woefully un-informed.

Your claims are gross generalizations or simply not true. Keep making your ugly claims and failing to grasp that the vast majority of Christians aren't out to get you and the ones that are will usually be prosecuted if they rise to the level you discribe.

You have decided you want to be a victim. Fair enough...but please go somewhere else as you are adding nothing intelligent to the discourse.

No Gays in Iran
I actually believe Ahmadinejad when he says there are no gays in Iran.

That is why they walk around with their heads covered in the Middle East: nobody can find a good hair-stylist.

Perhaps we need to send some gays over there, to improve the decorating, give their clothing some flair, and write some catchy musicals. This may sooth their intense homicidal rage.

Leo
"The definition of freedom is the ability to choose who one socializes with. The definition of freedom is the ability to choose who one socializes with. I don't soacilaize with conservative Christians. In the same manner blacks don't socialize with white supremacists and Jews with neonazis."

WOW! How incredibly close-minded and bigoted THAT statement is.

I don't care for the gay liefstyle but I'll BS with one of my neighbors who is gay. I won't go over for a lovefest at his house but I helped him with some carpentry work before I deployed.

THAT is tolerance Leo.

You're just a plain ol bigot and heterophobe.




gwco
but I had heard it was common practice amongst muslims to keep a young boy handy as their catamite. It only becomes a sin upon reaching adulthood. I gather that molesting a young boy is acceptable amongst these despicable individuals as another sign of their deparved lives. Perhaps they consider self abuse a sin. We were told that as kids. maybe the koran doesn't issue a prohibition so they feel free to indulge. However don't reach adulkthood and keep a boyfriend, that is a surefire death wish

Leo
"They can expect their dignity, life and humaninty degraded and demened by Christians on daily basis in newspapers, internet radio and TV"

How about looking at this from the other side. Do you know how often Christians are demeaned on TV?

I love the Simpsons, but they do it all the time (Ned Flanders). ER has a Christian character that is both a hypocrit and borderline stupid. Preists are generally seen on Law and Order and other crime shows as pedophiles (in spite of the fact that a tiny, tiny fraction of preists have committed this attrocious crime).

Have you noticed that men are portrayed as morons whose lives are completely run by their much smarter wives(Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens etc etc). Most commercials portray the same image.

So...why should gay people be immune?

LEO
Liberals Definition of hate speech:

You don't agree with ME!

Leo
Leo writes: "Why would I subject myself to the presence of bigots and hatemongers in my life. "

You do a pretty good job of it..virtualy living at Kos/moveon.
Let's face it the biggest bunch of bigots and haters on the planet are the vermin from Kos/moveon.
Not to mention, going by your posts on here, you are indeed an excellent example of what a hater and bigot is.

Newt on this:
"It’s too bad that the leadership of Columbia University hasn’t learned the lesson of the New School: America honors freedom of expression by being a refuge for the oppressed, not by giving a soapbox to the oppressors. This is not about free speech, the Iranian dictator can stand on any New York City street corner and say what he wishes, but we do not need to legitimize his hate-filled holocaust-denying diatribes by giving him a platform at a “distinguished” lecturer series at Columbia."

Bman1
"The most important question is what did they do with all those Toyota Prius' ???"

Hopefully recycled into tuna cans where they belong.

censored
I have a good plan for liberals.

Wrap yourself with 50lbs of chains,

then

Take a long walk off a short pier.

And HEY! you'll contribute by feeding nature and reducing the carbon footprint!

gwco2skeptic
Best post of the day! Kudos.

Homicidal Rage!

Maybe we can send Barney Fwank, Ol Lispy, on a fact-finding mission and he can give them helpful hints ala Gay Guy for the Islamic Eye.

Childish Behavior
Coultergeist writes:
Pot. Kettle. Black.

You sound just like a ten-year-old out on the playground.
So I ask:
Are you really a ten-year-old...
or is that just the level of your thinking?

Bman 1
"You mean that guy that never shuts up?"

Leo Terrell? Yep, I'm pretty sure that's the one. Hannity has to turn him down now and then just to get a word in edgewise. He screams his head off about the evils of white people, and then he hangs up.

"He's like those chattering teeth that you wind up, except sound comes out of his teeth."

He's a lot louder and more annoying, too. Unfortunately, his sounds aren't much more intelligible than the chattering teeth.

"I do not know why they let him on the show."

Why not? He seems to enjoy making a fool of himself, and some of us enjoy watching him do it.

Leo
Would you STOP making gross generalizations!!!

Bman1
I was thinking more along the lines of salt water piers.

That way, they could also serve another purpose as artificial reefs and improve the fishing for me and my son!

JMind
My bad I forgot that.

He will not stop making gross generalizations because in his little bigoted mind that is fact.

coultergeist
More liberal hysteria on your part. You and Leo are the only ones spouting propaganda. What's more just because someone disagrees with you does not make it hate speech. I think you libs attach hate to it because you hate any one who dares to disagree.

Leo
Leo, Leo, Leo

Here I am trying to HELP formulate a plan to relieve these uptight ayatollahs and mullahs of their anti-gay feelings and you're hetero-bashing me.

All I need to do is discuss guns and you could be hoplophobic as well as heterophobic.

Seek help.

Leo
Like I said you are bigot. I never said you didn't have a right to be a bigot, however it makes you hypocrite of which you have a right to be also.

You have zero credibility and logic.

Lolo1
You're onto something there with your 245PM post.

If they can intimidate sheple into silence, through fear, then they validate their own dogma.

After all, silence = consent.

I think they're borrowing that tactic from Stalin, Hitler, and Castro. Noted liberal heroes.

Lolo1
I've never met Ol Leo. Or if I did, he was so beneath my notice that I can't remember him.

Leo, again, in my quest to heal the liberal-conservative rift, have you ever shot on Quantico's 1000yd range? If so, were you the guy I said couldn't hit a bull in the a** with a bass fiddle?

If so, soory but I DID offer advice. Just like my 12 step program for liberals. That took TIME to research!

Socialist Liberal Garbage
GunnyG, Bman1 and other conservative Bloggers I have a question? why waste your time & give the socialist trolls satisfaction by responding to their ridiculous comments? They serve no useful purpose, not even humor. Columbia University as a Bastille of free speech is the biggest laugh of all. All their government handouts should cease immediately.

rocker
right wing fanatics?

Columbia U?

Bollinger?

Dude, step away from the crack pipe.

Lolo1
"GunnyG Leo said that you were the most disgusting bigot he ever met. How come he got to meet you? I am at least more worthy! "

Don't fight folks LMAO just checking in


Freedom in San Fran

The city of San Fran did not even want the Marines to film a commerciak in their city

Leo
Yes, we should all learn from you because you have demonstrated such intelligence with your commentary.

You are teaching us NOTHING about tolerance because by and large we are not intollerant. Nothing I have said is intollerant towards gays. You make gross generalizations (Millions of gays are accused by christians of being pedophiles).

One person saying all gays are pedophiles or something ridiculous like that doesn't mean ALL christians accuse gays of that. Even if that person HAPPENS to be a christian. He isn't a good Christian and would be condemned saying it.

You said to me you meant "Conservative" Christians, but who cares? First of all, most of your posts have not bothered to put that qualifier in front of Christians.

You HATE and condemn Christians, NOT the other way around.

Leo
C'mon brother. We hit a regular bar, hang out, you can buy me Guinesses, I'll smoke a stogey or two, and if you're not too lispy, hey, I might have a few of my retired homeys show up and we'll chill.

You can introduce us to the wonderful world of interior decorating and we'll introduce you to guns, fishing, hunting, and camping!

You gotta bring your own tent tho.


gunny
we were all waiting for mommy's boy to weigh in on the columbia situation. For the mentally challenged like rocker I suggest that we color dye libs and conservs. My preferred choice for us conservs would be an american flag or those colors. For libs/socialist lets use their preferred color, yellow. We can of course, readily recognize them by their positions. Obviously they can't recognize fellow idiots and cowards. But I doubt it is impossible to insult a total a**hole. Wack minimidget iwannajihad would be impossible to insult. This hater is an insult to humanity and beneath all contempt, that is to everyone except his new champion, rocker

RETSSGT
Bman1's still around huh? LMAO Can't figure out why he keeps hitting on me LOL

RETSSGT
Actually, I was thinking of hal when I pulled the chain in the La-Tri-ne.

Bastille/ Bastion
Corrected; but I think you got the message any way. Thanks

WOW
You folks sure have drifted off of Iran and Iraq and now our Mercenary is trying to seduce a guy WHAT is going on?

Leo
ROFLMAO!!!! You just dig yourself in deeper with every post.

Since you don't know me at all even in the remotest sense how do you know I am a bigot? Or even remotely profess and support any of the dribble you posted?

You don't. You are making broad sweeping generalizations and assumptions.

You wouldn't be able to pick me out from other person on the street yet you claim you basically already know who or what I am and therefore would not associate with me.

At least I know why I wouldn't associate with you, and it has nothing to do with your being gay what so ever, but everything to do with your ignorance and bigotry.

So does wallowing in self pity and hate make you feel better?

Packrat
Thank GOD! The Marines could pick ANY place more patriotic that San Fran. The Heartland. The South.

Bring the jobs and money to RED STATES not blue ones. They don't deserve it.

Hey guys!
the village idiot keeps trying to pick a fight and no one is taking his bait. He's getting upset, some one give him a hanky.

GunnyG
Just wanted to make sure you weren't playing favorites since Leo assumed he knew you personally and all.

oh Oh
Hal's hitting on the guys aagin.

Hal, go back to DU, I heard that kinda stuff goes on there. You're on the wrong page...as usual.

C'Mon
crybaby, TWIST that hankie!

Boo-hoo. Libby crying.

(Geez, if THAT ain't a norm.)

GunnyG
See I knew it! You are playing favorites. You invited him out for a beer. I don't think he's going to take you up on it.


ROFLMAO!!!

sigh
I thought as much nothing constructive going on here same old gays and fundie stuff