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Friday, September 07, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Reclaiming the High Ground on Iraq
by David Limbaugh
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Given our success with the counterinsurgency operations and the stakes involved in the outcome of the war in Iraq, President Bush and other Republicans have a window to restate their case for the importance of Iraq in the War on Terror. They should seize the opportunity before war opponents have another chance to discourage the war effort.

Let's agree to disagree right now on whether we should have attacked Iraq in the first place. Let Democrats savor the prospect of using that issue for the 2008 elections -- if things turn back around for them and against our progress in Iraq.

But we're in Iraq now, and whether we win or lose matters -- believe it or not -- and when we begin to withdraw our troops matters because it will affect whether we win. But we shouldn't allow the answer to either question to be affected by disputes over the justification for our initial attack.

The preliminary success of the "surge" has greatly undermined the Democrats' position on a number of fronts, which is why they are trying to destroy General David Petraeus's credibility in advance of his favorable report. It is why they are developing new strategies to secure our withdrawal, such as backing off their demands for a firm withdrawal date to lure "moderate" Republicans into joining their cut-and-run scheme.

Democrats have said this is a civil war, that America's presence is exacerbating the ethnic rivalry and prolonging the war, that Al Qaeda's involvement is marginal, that the war is "unwinnable," and that even if we are making great strides militarily, we are getting nowhere politically.

They've said that remaining in Iraq fuels Al Qaeda recruiting efforts while withdrawing would deter them.

They've said Iraq is not part of the War on Terror and implied that our withdrawal will not constitute a setback to us in the WOT, nor will it result in disastrous consequences for Iraq, the Iraqi people or the Middle East.

They've said we should refocus our efforts on Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and on better pursuing Osama bin Laden.

It's not just the success of the surge that is unraveling the Democrats' war against the war but also the primary reasons behind that success. Our revised strategy to capture and hold territory has reportedly emboldened Iraqi ethnic groups formerly helping Al Qaeda to turn to us and against Al Qaeda. Democrats are well aware of this, which is why some of them, like Sen. Chuck Schumer, are denying our military the credit for turning things around.

If the surge is neutralizing Al Qaeda, and this neutralization is leading to a dramatic turnaround in the Iraq War overall, the Democrats' multipronged excuses for opposing the war fall like dominoes.

Exposing Al Qaeda as the main catalyst for the war militates against concluding this has been a civil war as opposed to terrorist activity and ethnic conflict escalated to violence largely at the instigation of Al Qaeda and other outside forces. It also proves that Iraq truly is part of the War on Terror -- if we need further proof than Al Qaeda's blood commitment to our defeat in Iraq.

In Iraq, Al Qaeda is not just fighting over Middle Eastern real estate but is also testing our resolve in the War on Terror. Al Qaeda knows, even if some of us don't, that the outcome in Iraq will greatly affect the outcome of the larger WOT. If Al Qaeda drives us out -- by wearing down our will -- it will take that as a green light to attack us and our interests elsewhere, just as with Mogadishu.

Our victory will also turn on its head the Democrats' claim that Iraq serves as Al Qaeda's best recruitment tool. Regardless of whether our attacking Iraq stimulated Al Qaeda recruitment, cutting and running at Al Qaeda's behest would seal the deal. Conversely, it will greatly demoralize Al Qaeda if we defeat it in Iraq, especially with the help of Iraqis.

The Democratic leadership is way too invested in defeat to climb on board the reality train now. But Republicans should use this favorable Petraeus report to insist that we change the terms of the debate on Iraq.

Republicans have been far too defensive about Iraq and thus too malleable to Democratic demands that we begin withdrawal. If the mission is as important as we claim, we should refuse to allow consideration of the withdrawal date to be the focal point of the debate.

Instead, we should be concentrating on achieving a victory in Iraq -- for as long as it takes -- because a victory there is essential to our victory in the War on Terror. The better we fare in Iraq, the safer we'll be going forward -- no matter how adamantly Democrats deny it.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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willpower?
"If Al Qaeda drives us out -- by wearing down our will -- it will take that as a green light to attack us "

That's HOPELESS. Absolutely HOPELESS.

Americans have never, and WILL NEVER, have "willpower" comparable to al-Qaeda. Because al-Qaeda are religious fanatics. We cannot hope to match the "willpower" of jihadists who EAGERLY fly airliners into skyscrapers while looking forward to frolicking with 72 reusable virgins in Paradise. No matter how long and how hard our troops fight, these fanatics will outmatch our troops in sheer force of will and fanatical determination to win. No American soldier has the willpower of those jihadists. Because we don't teach our kids they should be HAPPY to die. We just don't do that.

In World War II, we couldn't match the "willpower" of the Waffen SS or the Japanese kamikaze either. We didn't need to.

We don't have to fight wars like the enemy fights them: "The enemy are fanatics possessed of terrible willpower, so we have to possess terrible willpower too." "The enemy routinely tortures their captives, so why don't we torture OUR captives too."

No.

Instead of these frantic attempts to "steel" ourselves to match the enemy, we need a strategy that plays to our own strengths.

All the Japanese willpower they could muster couldn't match the power of just TWO American atomic bombs. Willpower is fine. But atomic fission beats it.

That's what I meant about playing to our own strengths.



USMC Lt, Sen. Schumer *can't* come...
--
...to Iraq.

Heavens to Betsy, but even the *civilians* there are allowed by law to have one fully-automatic firearm per household.

For a man like Chuckie - who has dedicated his life to making certain that predators and thieves and other DemaGOP constituents can always find their victims completely disarmed - just the *thought* of what's going on in Iraq must threaten to make his pointy little head explode.

Have a little consideration for the mentally handicapped, won'tcha?


--
"Consider: if the GOP were anything even remotely similar to what most conservatives fondly believe it it, they'd have repealed Lyndon Johnson's 1968 Gun Control Act — not to mention Franklin Roosevelt's 1934 National Firearms Act — when they finally had the power to do it.

"But with regard to the individual right to own and carry weapons, Republicans showed the world what they are truly made of, when they pusillanimously rolled over on their backs, spread their legs (and ours), and permitted Bill Clinton to rape the Second Amendment by enacting the two laws I mentioned earlier, as well as the vile Brady Bill, a national registration scheme — and a purely Republican invention — aimed chiefly at intimidating women out of buying guns, that still violates the highest law of the land thousands of times a day."

..-- L. Neil Smith; see:
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle410-20070325-02.html

Limbug states:
"In Iraq, Al Qaeda is not just fighting over Middle Eastern real estate but is also testing our resolve in the War on Terror. Al Qaeda knows, even if some of us don't, that the outcome in Iraq will greatly affect the outcome of the larger WOT. If Al Qaeda drives us out -- by wearing down our will -- it will take that as a green light to attack us and our interests elsewhere, just as with Mogadishu."

I love when Dave gets into Rush's Oxycontin! This is pure speculation and absurdity! The idea that some gorup call "Al Queda" is "testing" us is so stupid that even the Warpublicans can't buy into this! SO how would Al Queda decide we've lost resolve? We invaded Iraq, destroyed the infrastructure, raped the country dry, disposed of its leader, killed tens of thousands if not more, rounded up thousands for imprisonment and forced a government on the people - not to mention having spent hundreds of billions of dollars to do it. You think "AL Queda" knows we mean business? SO if we leave that will embolden them to do what? Attack America? Are we supposed to believe Warpublican fear-mongers when they say quitting Iraq green-lights AQ to attack because we no longer defend ourselves? This has got to be the stupidest argument yet presented by any of the fear-mongering cowards on the right side of the aisle!

Straw Brain writes
" The idea that some gorup call "Al Queda" is "testing" us is so stupid that even the Warpublicans can't buy into this!"

So Al Queda isn't in Iraq? This statement alone qualifies you for a nuthouse. There are videos on the net of AL QUEDA leaders speaking of progress in Iraq, imbecile.

Waxing idiotic, Straw writes:

"We invaded Iraq, destroyed the infrastructure, raped the country dry, disposed of its leader, killed tens of thousands if not more, rounded up thousands for imprisonment and forced a government on the people - not to mention having spent hundreds of billions of dollars to do it. "

We rightfully invaded Iraq, since we only signed a ceasefire with them. For the clueless: that means we never stopped being at war with them. As soon as he fired on our troops we HAD EVERY RIGHT TO REMOVE HIM.

It was a bi-partisan goal to remove Saddam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

Forced a government on the people, except that almost half of them voted for it. A higher percentage than this country's last election, pal.

As far as raping the country, that is just asinine lies from a BDS sufferer. I hate to break it to you but we receive around 70-80% of our oil from NON MIDEAST SOURCES.

Mental lightweights such as yourself love these lies; it helps with your self-invented morality and legal system you seem to follow. Maybe its time to MOVE ON.

Bigg Doggg
WOW

DavidM pretty much slammed your arguments with facts and examples and you respond with nothing of substance.

Go back to dailykos or hufpo this site is for thinking adults.

Bigg Doggg
WOW

DavidM pretty much slammed your arguments with facts and examples and you respond with nothing of substance.

Go back to dailykos or hufpo this site is for thinking adults.

Here's the lesson
A year ago, the Sunni tribes that we now count as our allies against Al Qaeda(a generic term for foreign jihadists) were called terrorists on a daily basis by the likes of Limbaugh. There was no discrimination between the foreign jihadists and the indigineous insurgency.

That still holds true today when the Limbaughs of the world speak of Moqtada Al-Sadr and the bulk of the Mahdi Army. They're described as either terrorists or agents of the Iranian government or both. Completely ignored is that the foreign jihadists, or Al Qaeda if you insist, are the natural enemies of the Mahdi, being that they are Sunni and foreign. Also ignored is that the Badr, which competes against the Sadrists for power and influence in the Iraq Shia community, is the group most tied to Iran politically and militarily, while the Sadrist movement is more Iraqi national.

The lesson is to take a closer look at the Iraqi groups instead of using emotional labels like terrorist and Iranian proxies. We sat down with the Sunnis in Anbar, and it's hailed as a major victory by those who were calling them terrorists not long ago. It only makes sense to reach out to Al-Sadr as opposed to continually attempting to marginalize him.

Yawn..
How much longer neocons? Everyone and thier mother admits this liberation experiment will only succeed politically.. I thinks it's great that we FINALLY sent in enough troops to hold ground but what next? Evey chickenhawk I've hear from over the last few years has admitted that all of this is a big gamble.... My side doesn't like to gamble with American GI lives.. your side might acceot that but I have to keep reminding myself how the war hores support the troops..

Surge
If the surge has had had any success it is in Anbar but the overall violence is still much higher than it was two years ago. Our criteria for calling it a success must be very generous.

In addition, what do we do now? There has been little or no progress politically. Are we going to keep 160,000 troops there indefinitely to keep Anbar stable? Or are we going to introduce enough troops to do everywhwere what we have done in Anbar? I doubt that. Just being successful in Anbar is still not an end game.

Bigg Doggg
WOW

DavidM pretty much slammed your arguments with facts and examples and you respond with nothing of substance.

Go back to dailykos or hufpo this site is for thinking adults.

Libs side with America's enemies!
Libs are committed to defeat.
Anything good for America is bad for Libs.
Therefore Libs want America to loose another war and cause millions of innocent people to be slaughtered, just like Vietnam.

Libs want this war to come to America's shores and they know full well our enemy deliberately targets civilians.
Libs WANT America's women & children to be blown up by suicide bombers.
ANYTHING bad for America is good news for Libs.

Victory in Iraq would be very bad for Libs.
Even a rise in the Stock Market is bad news for Libs.

Straw Dog Kickers
His entire post was such an idiotic diatribe you should all just ignore him.

When libs try to bait you on this site by spewing raw sewage, you should give the lame brains just what they deserve. Nothing. By responding to them, you give them just what they crave; attention and validation.

By ignoring them you signal that their remarks don't deserve your time.

MyOpine
You got that right.

The Left has painted themselves into a corner on calling Iraq a loser and now that the surge is working, (EVEN PERKY COURIC SAID SO LIBS!) they're soiling their panties.

That liberals could sacrifice not just American lives, but Iraqis who help us, AND our standing in the region is nothing short of treasonous.

A mercenary (as Hal would call me)
Camp Victory

MyOpine
Meant to add:

I wonder why the libsquirts are not complaining as vociferously about Iran supplying FOREIGN fighters with EFP's!?

I guess as long as they supply EFP's that kill GI's, and make Bush look bad, it's cool.

GunnyG
When did Cowardice, Lying, and Cheating become Admirable Traits to Liberals? Or are they born that way?

democrap advenger
Do you mean the American GI's that your party calls little hitlers and acting like GANGIS KHAN and the GI's that your party says terrorises people in the middle of the night trying to fight terrorist. or the GI's that are murdering thugs., or the GIs who interrogate the terrorist and are given more rights than the GI's you claim to support. Also the GI's that your party claims is inept. I wish you could comne up with a better one that that. Or the GI's that you want them to lose face and surrender. That is what I call supporting the GI"s Hell you probably dont even know what GI means. I was a GI for 22 yrs and your party has never like the MILITARY just ask BILL(THE SCUD) CLINTON I was in the military when he bragged about cutting the deficit on the backs of your so called AMERICAN GI's. Go away you so called GI lover.

Dave, Dave
"We rightfully invaded Iraq, since we only signed a ceasefire with them. For the clueless: that means we never stopped being at war with them. As soon as he fired on our troops we HAD EVERY RIGHT TO REMOVE HIM."

We did not have a ceasefire treaty with Iraq. It was a United Nations treaty. The "no fly zones" were not authorized by a UN mandate and Iraq has been firing on our planes since the 1990s and regime change in Iraq wasn't even on the Republican radar.

The justification for the war in Iraq was Iraq's "urgent" threat to the United States, which we now know was built upon lies and fabrications. It's fascinating to watch a Bush Cultist tune out reality and write their own fictitious narrative about why Iraq was necessary.

However, don't expect us in the reality based community to join you.



What is working?
I find it curious that the monolithic Bush cult repeats that the "surge" is working but never define "working" or provide any criteria for "working." But it must be this way. If "working" actually had specific measurements then the "surge" would not be working.

The Iraqi government continues to come apart, this summer is of the most violent, attacks are spreading to Kurdistan areas, and rift between the Shiites and Sunnis continues to grow. This is "working" I surmise.

However, when you're dealing with the Bush Cult it's easy to convince them that the "surge" is working. Just say the surge is "working", call liberals names and the Bush Cult will buy it. It's easier that stealing candy from a baby.

The war in Iraq has no relevance to the War on Terror, but just opened up a whole new panoply of problems. After 9/11 how many people thought we needed to get Muktada al-Sadr? How many people thought securing the Al Anbar province was necessary? No one after thought such things because these didn't become problems until AFTER we invaded Iraq. Iraq has been a catastrophe and the Bush Cultists, especially those like Limbaugh, want to portray this catastrophe as if it's always been part of the War on Terror, when it's really just been a consequences of the Iraqi sham.




Mental Disorder
Truly MyOpine and GunnyG's obsession with libs is a mental disorder.

Try making a positive contribution based on your analysis someday instead of your generic ranking on libs. At least you'd come across as adults.

Working?
I agree. What exactly does that mean?

The surge has NOTHING to do with Anbar. There wasn't even a surge of troops into Anbar. The surge is in Baghdad.

The Anbar sheiks who are opposed to Al Quaeda are....guess what? Sunnis who used to be loyal to Saddam! These guys are the ones we invaded to depose! Now we give them arms and make them heroes. They still want nothing to do with Shia government. And when AL Quaeda leaves, they will ahte us just as much.

Interesting that the measure of success in Iraq will be measured by a decrease in sectarian violence. And they are doing the same thing they did before: they are just changing the definitions. (For example, the recent bombings that killed 500 people are NOT included in teh stats becuase they are determined to not be "sectarian." Success? What does that look like in a country that has been destroyed by American arrogance.

Interesting too that the Limbaugh of the world are all slapping Petraeus on the back as if his brand new ideas are coming to the rescue just in time. Where were they before? Petraeus proposed and implemented these exact same ideas in the year right after the war, but he was rebuffed by the oh so prescient Bush administration. He was taken out of the loop because he proposed needing more troops and a different strategy. He is an example of how WRONG this administration has been about everything involved in this war.

Getting Better?
—Iraq is suffering about double the number of war-related deaths throughout the country compared with last year — an average daily toll of 33 in 2006, and 62 so far this year.

—Nearly 1,000 more people have been killed in violence across Iraq in the first eight months of this year than in all of 2006. So far this year, about 14,800 people have died in war-related attacks and sectarian murders. AP reporting accounted for 13,811 deaths in 2006. The United Nations and other sources placed the 2006 toll far higher.

—Baghdad has gone from representing 76 percent of all civilian and police war-related deaths in Iraq in January to 52 percent in July, bringing it back to the same spot it was roughly a year ago.

—According to the Iraqi Red Crescent Organization, the number of displaced Iraqis has more than doubled since the start of the year, from 447,337 on Jan. 1 to 1.14 million on July 31.

Our top GENERAL ON THE GROUND Petraeus has stated that it will take AT LEAST a decade"WIN" and his forecasts have been to optimistic .

How many more US Troops killed? 10,000?
How many more US Troops wounded? 50,000?
How many more ISF killed? 30,0000?
How any more ISF Wounded? 150,000?
How many more Iraqi Civilians killed? 250,000?
How many more Iraqi Civilians wounded? 1.5 Million?
How many more Iraqi's will be displayed from their homes? 100,000/month? 12-24 Million?
Will there be any Iraqi's left to GOVERN or be GOVERNED when we "WIN" and establish a DEMOCRATIC IRAQ?

Oh ya, then ask what the impact will be if we withdraw 100,000 troops by the end of 2008?


The Real Reason We Stay
The right wingers have become incredibly fluid and flexible in their thinking: the person who was blowing up GI's a week ago can be a hero tomorrow. If the propaganda leaders on places like Townhall say the word, a Sunni Baathist who was the enemy we invaded to eliminate becomes our pal overnight.

The little Goebbels types have argued constantly that the Democrats are invested in defeat, that they want Iraq to go badly to humiliate Bush. This is partly true. But it is also true that the main reason Republicans want to stay is to protect Bush from humiliation. If we leave iraq, then Bush goes down in history as an utte failure. People are dying to protect tthis rich white kid from embarassment.

The high ground is pretty low
Bush's continued optimism with his "mission" in Iraq is loaded with false premises. They fudge the numbers of civilian deaths, not counting hundreds based on how they were killed, rather than the fact that they were killed due to the fighting. We now are arming all the Iraqis, essentially helping each group to kill each the others - all with the hope, presumably, that they will stop killing our guys.

And this is considered "taking the high ground"? This is considered success?

Umm sorry red tooth
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

Resolution 687 was a cease-fire. Its the item #1 in the document.

Ready to join us in reality yet?

I respect this position:
- Bush should not have gone into Iraq.

I do NOT respect these:
- It was illegal to invade.
- It was immoral to invade.
- Bush is Hitler/Jews control America
- We're stealing their oil.

I believe the *first time* Saddam fired at our soldiers we had every right to go back in. Whether it was a good idea is another debate.

Study: US should lower profile in Iraq

Will Bush listen to experts on what to do in Iraq?

Yahoo-Congressional Democrats, emboldened by an independent study that calls for a significant reduction of U.S. forces in Iraq, say they’ll push for a redeployment as soon as this fall.

The 20-member panel, comprised mostly of retired senior military and police officers, said the massive deployment of U.S. forces and sprawl of U.S.-run facilities in and around Baghdad has given Iraqis the impression that Americans are an occupying, permanent force.

Accordingly, the panel said the Iraqis should assume more control of its security and U.S. forces should step back.

“Significant reductions, consolidations and realignments would appear to be possible and prudent,” wrote the group, led by retired Marine Corps Gen. James Jones.

The recommendation echoed previous independent assessments on the war, including the high-profile Iraq Study Group that said the combat mission could be transferred to the Iraqis by early 2008. But the burning question, left mostly unanswered by the panel, was precisely when Iraqi security units could take control and U.S. troops could leave.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/study-us-should-lower-profile-in-iraq

Limbug states:
"In Iraq, Al Qaeda is not just fighting over Middle Eastern real estate but is also testing our resolve in the War on Terror. Al Qaeda knows, even if some of us don't, that the outcome in Iraq will greatly affect the outcome of the larger WOT. If Al Qaeda drives us out -- by wearing down our will -- it will take that as a green light to attack us and our interests elsewhere, just as with Mogadishu."

I love when Dave gets into Rush's Oxycontin! This is pure speculation and absurdity! The idea that some gorup call "Al Queda" is "testing" us is so stupid that even the Warpublicans can't buy into this! SO how would Al Queda decide we've lost resolve? We invaded Iraq, destroyed the infrastructure, raped the country dry, disposed of its leader, killed tens of thousands if not more, rounded up thousands for imprisonment and forced a government on the people - not to mention having spent hundreds of billions of dollars to do it. You think "AL Queda" knows we mean business? SO if we leave that will embolden them to do what? Attack America? Are we supposed to believe Warpublican fear-mongers when they say quitting Iraq green-lights AQ to attack because we no longer defend ourselves? This has got to be the stupidest argument yet presented by any of the fear-mongering cowards on the right side of the aisle!

Insanity
Iraq was not a threat to the United States in 2003. The invasion was unnecessary and immoral. Iraq is not a threat to the United States now. Sacrificing Americans there is not necessary, and is immoral. Iraq will NEVER be a threat to the United States. Why should any more Americans die there?

DavidM
Resolution 687 was a United Nations resolution, not one between Iraq and the United States. The United Nations never authorized the United States to invade Iraq.

The reason for the invasion of Iraq was not that Iraq was firing upon our aircraft, but that Iraq was developing WMD that threatened this country. The no fly zone was not mandated by the UN. Since the war has no justification Bush cultists are now trying to invent new reasons: gassing the Kurds, invading Kuwait, firing upon our aircraft. The Bush Cult needs to invent new reasons for the war because the reasons provided by the Administration were false.

Instead of blindly following the Bush Administration, why not acknowledge the war was in error?

Red
I already posted that its feasible the war was an error. Unfortunately FAR more than that is going on from the anti-war crowd.

To the Bush-Derangement sufferers:
1. Did Serbia or Slobodan Miloševic threaten the US?
2. Did Serbia have WMDs?
3. Why did the Clinton Administration give no-bid contracts to Haliburton during that War? Doesn't that prove big oil was running things?
4. Did the UN or Congress authorize/declare that War(as if UN approval is required).
5. Were there mock assassinations of President Clinton during or after his administration?
6. Where were you morally superior, frothing anti-war types in 1999?

Questions that have answers: david
To the Bush-Derangement sufferers:
1. Did Serbia or Slobodan Miloševic threaten the US?
No. Did Clinton say they did?
2. Did Serbia have WMDs?
No, did clinton say they did?
3. Why did the Clinton Administration give no-bid contracts to Haliburton during that War?
Doesn't that prove big oil was running things?

Can't answer, as I have no details. Do you?

4. Did the UN or Congress authorize/declare that War(as if UN approval is required).

No. so?

5. Were there mock assassinations of President Clinton during or after his administration?

Only by right wing "americans."

6. Where were you morally superior, frothing anti-war types in 1999?

Worried. How about you?
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