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Tuesday, August 14, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Overhyped 'Meet the Press' Debate
by David Limbaugh
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The much ballyhooed debate on "Meet the Press" between former Congressman Harold Ford Jr. and Markos Moulitsas, publisher of the liberal Daily Kos website, was instructive for what it revealed about both the divisions in the Democratic Party and the underlying disingenuousness of both factions.

Ford was defending the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), an organization that holds itself out as centrist, urges the Democratic Party to move in that direction, and proudly claims former President Bill Clinton as its most honored member. Moulitsas was there to represent the more leftist wing of the party, which has used his website to increase its influence.

Ford sounded reasonable on the surface, touting the successes of the Clinton record and attributing those to DLC ideas. But in the end, Ford's message was garbled.

He said that to win national elections "you have to cross three hurdles." You must prove your "strength and trustworthiness on national security," that your values are in line with mainstream America and that you are trustworthy on "taxes, economic and fiscal policy."

So far so good. But how does that differ from the Republican platform? How does it square with what any national Democratic officeholders, save Sen. Joseph Lieberman, advocate?

Looking deeper into the issues, Democrats still lack credibility on national security given their obstruction and incoherence on the Iraq war and their opposition to most measures aimed at bolstering our security, including terrorist surveillance, terrorist financial tracking, tough interrogation techniques and refusing to negotiate with terrorists.

While liberals boast that their values more closely mirror those of mainstream Americans, they know better, which is why they're always double-tongued in this area. They trash "values voters" with one tongue and court them with the other. They play word games, using "choice" and making abortion "safe, legal and rare" to conceal their real agenda.

There is also a disconnect on their tax policy. They say they're for balanced budgets, but if they had their way legislatively -- if President Clinton had had his way -- they would spend us into oblivion. And their rigid prejudices won't allow them to acknowledge that supply-side tax cuts have reduced the deficit and improved the economic condition of all income groups.

So while the DLC is less liberal than most influential Democrats, they aren't as moderate as they would have us believe. They just want to sound more conservative to fool the electorate, which they believe, even if Moulitsas' "netroots" (Internet grass roots) don't, is center right.

Tellingly, Ford himself characterizes the DLC's positions as "progressive," which we all know is a euphemism for "liberal." Regardless of whether Ford wants to pretend "progressive" means "conservative light," most of his fellow Democrats clearly understand it to mean "liberal," but without the negative connotations. Either way, we're witnessing sophisticated obfuscation from the DLC.

Moulitsas' message was equally odd, but for different reasons. He, too, started off sounding reasonable, criticizing milquetoast Democrats like those of the DLC for "blurring the distinctions" between the parties, not being "proud Democrats" and attacking fellow Democrats.

But after issuing these admonitions he proceeded to violate most of them himself. Though he decried the DLC for attacking Democrats, he has been relentless in attacking the main Democrat out there, Hillary Clinton, as well as Democrats in the DLC.

Moulitsas said the election "had nothing to do with being centrist or liberal or conservative." He even brushed back host David Gregory for trying to get him to talk about issues. Throwing in a dash of Perot populism, he said this wasn't about him and what he thought about the issues, but the millions of netroots who have found a voice on his website. I wonder how long he'd stick to that nonsense if conservative netroots invaded his website and began advocating conservative causes. Plus, if it isn't about issues, why does he trash the DLC for "blurring distinctions"?

Indeed, Moulitsas unwittingly acknowledged the silliness of his denial of interest in issues when he uttered the glaring non sequitur that the 2006 Democratic victory "had to do with standing tall for core progressive (read: liberal) principles." Translation: Moulitsas doesn't care about liberalism or issues on the one hand, but they are all that really matter to him on the other. At least there's one thing these Democratic factions have in common: their use of the "P" word to disguise their respective agendas.

The only discernible message from this so-called debate was that for all the Republicans' political difficulties, Democrats are still divided and their various factions are all afraid to be honest about their core beliefs, except for their unifying disdain for President Bush and Republicans. Perhaps they can all feast for a while on Karl Rove's resignation.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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If
I had to choose between the two I'm going with Ford. He doesn't foam at the mouth.

Progressive Party
Someone help me out here. Sometime, maybe in the 40's or 50's when the Communist Party in this country was under heavy fire, didn't they change their name to the Progressive Party?

Kos Rules!
The Kos is successful...and you Repbs know it. Just look at the facts...Faux news and you guys here will not stop attacking it! Success...YES!

The single interesting thing...
...about Kos and his "netroots" is that they've managed to get so many "mainstream" Democrat figures to pay them lip service. That says as much or more about those "mainstream" Democrat officeholders, office-seekers, and strategists as it does about Kos and the herd behind him.

Basically, the Kos Krowd has gotten itself identified by the Democrats as a special-interest group to which they can profitably pander. Pandering to special interests has been the core of Democrat strategy since the New Deal, and one at which they're highly proficient. What the Kossacks haven't yet realized is that Democrats invariably welsh on nearly all their promises once installed in office. The precedent was set by their most revered figure, Franklin D. Roosevelt, whose 1932 campaign platform called for a balanced budget and strict adherence to the gold standard. It's been "honored" by each and every one of his successors.

A smart person would draw the lesson and "move on." But then, there's no intelligence test one must pass to become a Kossack.

Intolerant Kos Embraces Censorship
"I wonder how long he'd stick to that nonsense if conservative netroots invaded his website and began advocating conservative causes. "

It would never happen. The Daily Kos deletes all dissent, and bans all dissenting bloggers who stray from their far-left viewpoint.

While such censorship may be legal, since the Daily Kos is a private enterprise -- it does have the effect of creating an insulated bubble for the "Kossacks" which allows them to believe that they are "populist" and in the mainsream of America on most issues.

And in Markos, on his Meet the Press interview we saw this deluded mindset on display.

my 2 cents
In times like this National Security is the prevailing issue in EVERY election. There are some real meanies out there who don't really like us and as long as the daily kos or whatever it calls itself caters to them so blatantly they make the dems l;ook bad.

Just like a lot of the writers and posters on this site. Elections are won in the middle.

adios

Davy
It might have been enlightening had you actually said something beyond name-calling and naked assertions.

Why invade Kos?
Let the Kos Kids be themselves and continue to pull the Democrat candidates into the vortex of Progressive aka Communism aka political suicide in this country. Remeber how this played out with the Dean scream and with the CT Democrat cast off of Lieberman. Once Hill gets the nomination, and tracks back for the General Election, we well may have another night of the long knives, the Kos Kids being the modern version of the brownshirts.

Kos was in Germany
During the first gulf war.

Because of this he calls himself a 'gulf war vet'.

Laugh. I guess I was a 'Gulf war programmer'.

Davy - Kos Kid Klan
Your post is interesting.

Indeed, Kos is getting his 15 minutes but you shouldn't make the mistake that it will continue for an inordinate amount of time.

Kos and those who follow, are rooted in an unfortunate paradigm of victimization. This filter in life will lead to its own self-destruction because by nature, the "disease" of victimization, while it appears to metastasize it eventually will lead to cessation.

There is almost no statement that the Kos Kid Klan could possibly say that couldn't be seen from their victimization within. This is inherently unhealthy and cannot sustain itself.

Why?

It has no where to go.

The socialist mentality has proven useless and destructive. Reasonable people and those educated in our society will not allow the likes of such bottom feeder mentality to overthrow our nation. While the Reps have their own issues, the Dems are really unevolved on too many levels.

The Kos Kid Klan get a lot of press because they're the "chicken little" of late, but just like bellbottoms, big hair, and pet rocks, they will be tossed to the dung-heap of irrelevance and historical musings.

Bloody boots and the great hype machine
Credit where credit is due. The kossers are great at hype. A lot of grand claims but when it comes to substance they make up for the grand amount of hype with en equally grand amount of substance. One only needs to hear the "gulf war vet" comment to be convinced. I find it hard to believe that he survived very long after boot camp. He strikes me as more of the "company secretary" type. If the CO made a sudden stop he would have broken his neck. He seems to be a rather wimpish twit. His own bio on his site is rather telling. He is given a law degree but he just can't bring himself to be a lawyer. Either he lacks the ethics or the bar exam was too tough.

PROGRESSIVE PAST
PROGRESSIVE stuck in a 1936 Ponzi Scam deferring personal income into a dead-pot static revenue political base. PROGRESSIVE bleary eyed desire for 1040's wartime military medicine pointing to where it hurts for the immediate bandage or cure. PROGRESSIVE demands that all labor be specified and unionized with little or no upward mobility and opportunity. Progressively stuck in the past with failing philosophies!

mr. Small: Not exactly..
Warren Small writes: Tuesday, August, 14, 2007 4:15 AM
Progressives
No, Kent. The Progressives (nothing to do with TR's Bull Moosers) were Henry Wallace's left-of-Democrats (but anti-communist) alternative to the CPUSA in the 1948 presidential election. Wallace ran after being dropped by FDR as veep in favor of Harry Truman.

That's the "official" version of historical events, however, quite a few overt US Communists during the "McCarthy" era chose to identify themselves as "Progressives" out of self-preservation. Read Horowitz's "Radical Son" sometime.

Kos site
meets a need as is obvious by Davy's pointing to the numbers it attracts. However, given the nature of the discourse on this website, the kind of discourse that some obscenity filters filter out, it is meeting the need of an unusual group of people, hardly the mainstream.

JAMES, right on
Your comments about "Progressives" are right on, but I must correct an earlier poster. Henry Wallace WAS a communist working in FDR's government. The Venona Project papers, released during the Clinton years, (that's why no one ever heard of them)proved that MANY in both FDRs and Truman's government WERE Communists. Joe McCarthy was right, and he died in defeat. He's been villified unnecessarily throughout history.

The ideas of Marx seem to be somehow attractive to the Lefties, even though when implemented in the REAL WORLD end in DISASTER -- ala the USSR, Cuba, China (who curiously is trying a free-market solution in their economic policies because Communism doesn't work), North Korea.

This revival of Marxist ideas -- now called "Progressivism" -- began during LBJs Administration, but WAS BIG during the 30s and 40s -- it just was more hidden then, so when McCarthy had his hearings about Communists in the Government, HE WAS RIGHT.

Now to the present -- Kos and his "Kossaks" are just that -- Communists -- even though they call themselves "Progressives"

Kos is a fraud
All Kos' high-minded talk about his website being democracy in action is pure, unadulterated meconium. More like "Democracy? (sniff) Inaction!"

If a conservative (or, more likely, a liberal troll posing as a conservative) goes on and makes hateful comments, they'll stay up forever. But if you use facts to poke holes in any of their idiotic fantasies, your final comments will be deleted and your account will be locked so you are unable to defend any of the previous comments you've made, should they be allowed to remain.

Also, unlike TH or Hotair, you are not allowed to post any comments until 48 hours after registration. So, by the time you get back on, the comment thread has dried up.

I agree with the previous post by Vaquero. The Krazy Kos Klowns think they are the ascendent political movement of the decade because the R's were fired last time around for acting like D's. They have since succeeded in bullying the leaders of the D party into believing they must pander to the far left in order to be elected. They ignore the fact that unrepentant liberals are simply unelectable on a national level. If we let them continue on this course, they will sink their party into long-term minority status.


bman
other posters have stated that this daily kos nutball was in the service for four years and rose to the rank of PFC. He shared that distinction with that other career soldier, Gomer Pyle

My impression
I didn't watch the whole MTP interview, but the one impression I got is that Moulitsas is
not
very
smart.

The Liberals have cast their Lot with
Kos and other Liberal Gestapo (Soros, Communist Underground, Peter Puffington, Sierra Club, PETA, etc.) Bill Clinton might have been DLC material, Shrillary IS NOT! She is of a type that infests America these days. A Hippie-Leftover, Drug Addled, Liberal who is reliving The Glory Days of The Anti-War, Anti-American, Communists.

Limbaugh writes:
About Moulitas,

"I wonder how long he'd stick to that nonsense if conservative netroots invaded his website and began advocating conservative causes."

But, as SFASU7392 points out, "... go to DailyKOS, and post a dissenting opinion, and see how long you last before getting banned."

Exactly right.

Limbaugh also writes:

"Ford sounded reasonable on the surface, touting the successes of the Clinton record and attributing those to DLC ideas. But in the end, Ford's message was garbled."

There are a few things wrong with this paragraph. First, the non-populist ideas that Ford wants to credit to the DLC, specifically welfare reform and a balanced budget, were NOT DLC ideas. They were longstanding conservative Republican policies that had to be jammed down Clinton's throat after the Republicans won control of Congress.

Second, Clinton did not abandon "populism" because he saw the error of its ways. He abandoned it because his only priority was to be President. And he could only continue to be President if he won a second term, and he could only win a second term if he abandoned the blatant liberalism of Democrats like Mondale, McGovern, and Dukakis.

Finally, what has always remained both a mystery and evidence that Bill Clinton has no political soul whatsoever is that he was one of the founders of the DLC but ran for President as a populist in 1992.


Re: Mrs. Clinton (aka "The Shrew")
Georgetwin,

You neglected to mention that "the world's smatest woman" flunked the DC Bar Exam.

Wiseone
There must have been Facts and The Truth on The DC Bar Exam. These 2 things always confuse Liberals! See Phylo, TanaBear, Robert, etc.

Francis Porretto---great post!
Your take on the Kos crowd is one that I hadn't even thought of, but makes perfect sense. The Democratic Party is the one that lives on pandering to interest groups, no matter their ideas, and the Kos crowd is just another interest group now.

And to add to your point, I think that the Democrat Party's pandering has limits to it regarding the Kos crowd. The netroots showed how weak it really was, and how small the faction truly was in their war on Joe Lieberman. They were able to beat him a primary when fewer people turn out to vote, but their man Lamont was rolled in the general election by Lieberman. The Democrats see that the netroots are of some help in some primaries, but are useless when all the chips are on the table. They may promise them the world, but they are not going to even try to deliver---where else are the Kos kids gonna go?

The presumption that
Web sites like this or Kos or anything else have even the slightest influence in turning a liberal thinker into a conservative or a conservative thinker into a liberal is preposterous. At best, these Web sites are moderately places to hang out with thinkers of a similar ilk and occasionally to posture and position one's own thinking in public. Their influence, in terms of changing people's minds or even educating at a lasting level are questionable.

I think the thing that is saddest, however, is a Web site and forum that limits alternate points of view. While I find many of the liberal posters on TH to be somewhat of the fruitcake variety, I do support their right to think out loud. A forum that chooses to eliminate all contrary or opposing points of view is -- well, most probably, it's a liberal one. 'Nuff said.

Moulitsas represents
Whiners, Crybabies, Lazy Bums, Potheads, Communists and other Left-Wing Malcontents.

anthony thomas
I have heard harold ford interviewed on several occaisions. He seemed quite reasonable in his outlook on how govt could be run. In fact he sounded closer to being conserv in his approach. Why exactly does a voice of reason need to chased from either party. I would suggest that the harold fords are far more valuable to any party than the john murtha types that pillage the tax revenues. But having lived in memphis I do believe that harold seems to be the most honorable and decent person coming from the ford political machine

georgetwin
I have specualated several times that you can't keep an angry base fully mobilized for long periods of time. Issues change, events and circumstances change and politicians move on. Is this angry base in things for the long run. If their supposed allies in congress don't move on the kos issues or ignore them after the elections, what stops the kos crew from turning on them. I suggest kos loyalty is not a guiding principal

Dear Anthony Thomas
Sir: You point out your desire to make sweeping changes in the country. It would seem the changes you desire would require changes to our Constitution. Please share with us the changes you desire.
Should you suggest such changes are not required to implement your desires, I would have to disagree for I see nothing in the present Constitution allowing the government to take my property and earnings for the benefit of others in order to make us "all equal".

anthony thomas
please clear up exactly what values conservs hold dear, that ford might and lieberman has already betrayed dems on. I was under the impression there are american values and ideals not limited to one party or the other

Tanabear
Pointless post, unless you want to demonstrate that you don't know much about history.

"Since the Johnson Administation, government spending grew the least under Clinton's first term."

You seem to imply that this was due to Bill Clinton's efforts, but Clinton didn't control spending--the GOP majority in the House did that.

"Iraq has nothing to do with our national security, so where a politician stands is not relevant."

Nothing to do with our national security? Hogwash. We're not at war with Osama bin Laden, or with all of Al Qaida. We're at war with all of Islamic terrorism. Intervention in Iraq is a classic counterinsurgency strategem--you can't kill all the insurgents, so you attack the social and economic conditions that produce them. Terrorists come from poverty and oppression, so if we can being a greater degree of political and economic freedom to the Middle East, terrorism should decline.

Reasonable people can argue about how well this strategy has been executed, and can even argue whether the expected benefit outweighs the cost in casualties. But to assert that it has no possible benefit to our battle against Islamic terrorism (and thereby our national security) is just a display of ignorance.

Anthony Thomas writes:
wildwest
"In fact he sounded closer to being conserv in his approach."


This is exactly why he must be weeded out, I felt the same way when I heard him speak. We already have to deal with people like Joe Lieberman, we don't need any more people like that gaining influence in the party. They will eventually sell us out to conservative values the way Lieberman has.

Have you been eating paintchips? Joe Lieberman is no conservative. The only issue he sides with Republicans or conservatives is on the war and that is because he is Jewish. He knows full well what would become of him and his familiy if
Al Queda ever got control of this country. When it comes to nanny state programs Joe is just as liberal as Ted the Red Kennedy. I believe deep down most dems feel the same way but in an effort to distance themselves from GWB and an unpopular war they march in lockstep with the Kossacs. Even dems dont want to loose the country to those head choppers.

anthony thomas
you sound more reasoned in your viewpoint and there is probably more common ground between us than might be readily apparent. I think however that too much emphasis on kos and it's affects on your side of the issues. You sound like one who is in for the whole ride, not merely jumping on for something short-termed and then moving on to another "issue" as these kos fellows seem to be

wildwest
Colleges spit out Radical Leftists year after year. As soon as they have so start paying their own way, significant numbers SPRINT to the right. Only the Whiners, Dopers, Malcontents and Lazy remain Communists.

georgetwin
its the anger thing I just don't undersatand. I know you get upset when your wife comes home with old milwaukee instead of heiniken but you get over it. I just feel sorry that you have to drink the old milwaukee

Anthony
#1 - Go see dead meat or ask people who wait 18 weeks for an MRI in Canada about that system.

The solution is MORE privatization, not less. Plenty of columns by Thomas Sowell addressing the particular failings of Government healthcare.
Do you really want the same people who run the IRS and the DMV to be responsible for your health?

#2 - I agree but for everyone not just low income.

#3 - Not a function of the Federal government,imo.

#4 - So you think people should be able to bilk credit card companies out of money as long as it is for health care? You do realize those corporations' stock are funding peoples livelihoods and retirements?

#5 - Absolutely false. The number of companies who outsource TO the US has grown faster then the reverse. When companies/consumers save money by outsourcing that money is spent elsewhere. Money is a fungible resource-its not spend it or lose it.

#6 - The top 1% already pay 36% of the income tax while earning only 22% of the income.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

You think its not high enough??

Judging by your responses, some economic and free market facts and principles would change your mind on many issues. The end results you are searching for isn't found in Washington.

wildwest
These So-Called, New Liberals are spoiled brats who NEVER pay tehir own way. Mommy & Daddy pay their way through school & then they live with Mommy and Daddy after college. When/If Mommy & Daddy tell them to grow up & pull their own weight, all of a sudden they have to pay their own way. Now, they don’t get what they want when they want it! Things that happened to you & I at 18 or 19 never happen to these Gutless Wonders until 27 or 28. So there they are in their late 20’s, Lazy, Stupid, Unable to care for themselves and they have to pay their own bills! THAT is why they are angry! How many Liberals on Townhall have been exposed as people like this? Like I said, Only the Whiners, Dopers, Malcontents and Lazy remain Communists.

Also, colleges are fully of Professors who make 6 figure salaries, but think Capitalism is EVIL! But you don’t see these Liberal Hypocrites give their checks back do you!

Spineless, Drug-Addled, Whiny, Moral & Physical Cowards!

TODAYS DEMOCRATS!

Correction
pay their own way.

Clinton Budget
The DLC brought us the bait and switch technique of the moden Democratic Party. It helped them win control of Congress in the last election.

Yet you have to be dumber than a post and living under a rock if you believe that Clinton wouldn't have spent our tax dollars by the fist fulls. Because he did! The only reason he didn't raise taxes more or drive the deficit up was because of the "peace dividend" from the ending of the Cold War. Instead of the average American receiving a refund on his taxes those peace dollars were spent elsewhere and Clinton did raise taxes.

The DLC was formed for one reason and one reason only to regain power for the Democrats.

tanabear
Maliki was duly elected like it or not. If it makes you feel better he is about to get the boot. Jaafari is about to gain control.

On that note never understood why anyone would want a parlimentary system anyway.
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