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Tuesday, June 26, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Bipartisanship and the Lott/Feinstein Love-fest
by David Limbaugh
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In their joint appearance on "Fox News Sunday," Sens. Trent Lott and Dianne Feinstein unwittingly gave a seminar on the corrupting influence of governmental power, the "bipartisanship is a virtue" myth and the urgent need for term limits.

During their interview, which was billed as a "rematch" but more closely resembled a love fest, the senators seemed to agree with each other way more than they disagreed -- and this from legislators reputed to be ideological opposites.

The senators were busy congratulating themselves over their collegiality and how nice senators looked during Seersucker Suit Week in the Senate, and commenting on the ignorance of American talk show listeners.

While I'm no fan of incivility, I would have felt far better represented if these two lovebirds had engaged in heated debate and at least one of them demonstrated the faintest connection with us mortals outside the governing class.

Speaking of which, host Chris Wallace asked Lott about his recent statement that "senators on both sides of the aisle are being pounded by these talk radio people who don't even know what's in the bill."

Though Lott lamely attempted to weasel out of his statement, he did nothing to restore his credibility on this issue. Nor did he apologize for or retract it.

Unlike the Senate, which has tried to ramrod this bill through with an unprecedented lack of hearings, talk radio has been informative and hosted a serious, substantive dialogue on the bill. It is not the ever-demonized talk radio that is casting about disparaging barbs like "racism" and "nativism" to tar its opponents. It is politicians and other high-browed commentators whose commonality is demonstrated by their shared arrogance.

Both senators argued, typically, that any action on the immigration bill is better than none. Sadly, career politicians of both parties too often believe America's continued greatness depends on their proactive, energetic governance and superior knowledge and moral judgment.

When politicians behave as though they believe governance is about them rather than representing the competing interests of people with largely different worldviews, something is way out of kilter. The Framers never anticipated governance without conflict or controversy, but structured the system precisely to accommodate the vigorous presentation of competing interests.

Besides, when we see legislative compromise like we have with the various iterations of the immigration bill, we can be sure that conservatives are getting the short end of the stick. When so-called conservative senators bend over backward to accommodate the likes of Sen. Ted Kennedy and earn his lavish praise, we know all we need to know about the "wisdom" of this bill and what it portends for the national interest.

When "conservatives" jump in bed with politicians who view "multiculturalism," "diversity" and "tolerance" as the highest virtues, on a major piece of legislation that would advance those ideas while targeting for dilution the unique American culture and the primacy of the English language, something is radically wrong.

These legislators can continue to tout bipartisanship and collegiality as the highest goals of government. Likewise, others unschooled in history, the Constitution, politics and human nature can swoon over the seductive, but mindless prospect of political leaders like Ross Perot, and perhaps Michael Bloomberg, who come along from time to time and promise to deliver America from the evils of partisanship and bickering.

But I'd prefer a little realism to such empty promises and nonsense any day. Politicians who pretend they will bring such harmony about controversial, weighty issues are either ignorant of politics and human nature or are so incorrigibly arrogant that they believe the manifest superiority of their ideas, once properly explained, will usher in universal consensus and goodwill.

But as for the two senators at hand, I'd far rather have seen them engaged in a spirited exchange over issues they couldn't possibly agree on so readily if they truly reflected the polar opposite views held by their respective constituents.

I'd have a much warmer, fuzzier feeling if Sen. Lott had demanded explanations from Sen. Feinstein concerning her party's refusal to approach the war on terror as if it were a war, our enemies as if they were enemies and the immigration issue as if preservation of our culture and national security matter.

But if the two just couldn't resist discussing "bipartisanship," I'd have felt much better if Sen. Lott, in between kiss-blowings had asked Sen. Feinstein why her party refused to leave politics and partisanship at the water's edge.

Until we have answers to these questions and to the mystery of how legislators with ostensibly opposite ideologies can so easily agree on controversial issues, I think we can dispense with lectures from the governing class, which, in my view, has outstayed its welcome.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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My take on
bi- and post-partisanship is very clear in my on-topic essay -- currently the "most commented" -- "The Governator, El Presidente, and You" on my blog. Just click my name.

Lott
Unfortunately, we the people of Mississippi, have just re-elected this RINO to another term in office. My daddy always said that if a man lied to you, he will do just about everything else, and how true it is! We will be saddled with this "albatross" for another 5 years. He has climbed into bed with the likes of Kennedy, Dingy Harry, and their ilk. I wish someone could come up with a way to get rid of him before the whole country goes straight to hell! This is just a whine because I'm so disgusted. Just disregard, I had to vent.

Robert writes: Term limits exist...
Hey One Watt,
True that they can be voted out, but do not get on the high horse and tell others to "stop trying to gain by legislation what you cannot at the ballot box" until your side stops trying to gain from liberal judges what you cannot during legislation.

Lott/Feinstein: ugh!
Now there's an image I don't need!!!

trent lott
this moron is typical of those in washington who win election after election with no proven track record of accomplish or representing the folks back home. The time to take action is prior to the general election. You find candidates that reflect your values and work to get them elected. To continue to send incompetants like lott back to the senate is the fault of Mississsppi who don't look at what their elected officials stand for but blindly return them to office. This however is a nationwide problem. But don't whine if you accept the status quo. As for lott, he proven himself totally worthless when he was senate majority leader and that was long before his comments about strom thurmond. But the senate likewise shows that it champions the leadership of morons when the likes of lott and reid are chosen to run the show. But you could also argue that the once mighty senate has become the land of midgets and that is a sad reflection on all of us, the voting public.

Scandal
Why didn't Christ Wallace question Finstein on her husbands relationship with China and the possible scandal. And yes, we know about the shipyard in Pascagoula which built the USS John Stennis............which made Lott rich.

ROCC: Roberto = One Watt! ....LOL
Excellent!................

Poor Roberto is just a legend in his own mind. I don't even bother with him anymore, but some of the posts are a real hoot!

I kind of figure that with everything that Roberto "claims" that he's done, he must be about 800 years old.




I would venture a guess that..........

Chris Wallace knows more about what's in this Shamnesty bill than Loott (yes, I meant Loott!) and Finstein put together.

And yes, if this is proof that we need term limits, I don't know what will.



Lott's Love
The Feinstein/Lott liaison is too much. It does not surprise me, because Lott has always been an elitist. I don't believe he is really a RINO. That appelation belongs more to Chuck Hagel and some of the other wonderful, oh so smart and exalted Senators (Lugar? MCCain?) who know more than God about everything. Since even the Catholic Church now requires bishops to retire at 75, maybe we should consider the same. Most of these guys are older than Methuselah (Look it up!) especially Senator Byrd! The Senate and Congress have become a real aristocracy. More active, energetic party would really help, but, please Democrats, keep doing what you are doing.

Savage has it right
Lott received 250K from Rupert Murdoch for a book that sold only 12k.
Rupert Murdoch of Fox news hosted a fundraiser for Hillary..
These people are controlled by Murdoch who is now trying to buy WSJ.

The Vacant Lott
has been an embarrassment to the Republican Party for some time now. Or he would be an embarrassment if there were enough Republicans in Congress to notice.

I dispair for the two party system and the place of the Republican Party within the system, since both parties appear to have been subsumed into the Repubocratic Party, the one representing Washington, D.C.

The worst non-answer I can think of is a third party/vanity candidacy by someone like Mayor Mike, Ross Pirogue or Ralph Nodoze.

Where is Tom Paine when we need him?

Barry

Trent Lott


Trent Lott is right.

Talk radio is slowly dismantling the Republican party.

Look at J.D. Hayworth, (Republican from Arizona) he was a darling of talk radio.

J.D. as I recall,
was a talk radio host
who got elected with the help of talk radio.
So where is he now?
He's back on the farm picking tomatoes.

Why?

He had such strong talk radio backing... So why did he fail to be reelected? why?

The answer is simple.
Trent Lott knows what i know.
The Hispanic population is slowly changing the Southwest electorate.
These same Hispanics constituents unelected J.D. Hayworth plain and simple.

And if trends continue this way...

It'll take a generation or two for the Republican Party to come back from it's losses in the Southwest.

It's too bad. And sadly ironic, how the same 'talk radio' that built the party up and is now the same 'talk radio' that is taking the party down.

You can't win national elections without the Southwest. And I'm not for one party dominating the electorate for another forty years.

I can't change talk radio minds.
So I'll watch the slow decay of the G.O.P. in the Southwest, just like every other politico, and pray for some sanity to return to the G.O.P..

good luck

Definition of "bipartisanship"
"Put a pay-raise as part of the package to vote on; then the vote will be unanimously bipartisan". -- flustered taxpayer!

Term Limits will save America from..
Morons like Lott, Fienstein, and Reid and a host of others that would take up too much space to name all of them, need to understand that being a Senator or Representative was never intended to be a lifelong carfeer. Obviously, Americans are not capable of thinking about how our government works and are not able to look past Hollywood images. Money elects these morons and without a hard law which limits terms we will be stuck with the morons that big money buys.

Senators like Kennedy and Lott may be popular with their constituents, but they have been in the system so darned long their influence overpowers those who represent the rest of us. We of the great unwashed masses have to live with the consequences of the decisions of these morons.

You will also notice that those who claim that "Term limits exist at the voting booth" are those who have been in Congress the longest. The founding fathers never envisioned anyone would ever want to serve more than one term. It was hard work, you had to be away from your family for years, and the pay was lousy. It wasn't until being a Senator was a stepping stone to becoming a member of the millionair's club that term limits became a problem. If we want to wrest our country out of the hands of these greedy bastards we need to insist on limits not only on time served but on money earned.

Term Limits
In my humble opinion, term limits have been and are desperately needed right now. Same as the President and Vice President. Two terms, done! No more life long losers, I mean liars, I meant politicians. Same thing.

If this doesn't stop all the corruption that is going on, then somewhere down the road,a civil war is in the cards.

One way or the other, this country needs and will return to its roots.

Thank God for Talk Radio
The internet is one great way to get information on the government. (I started to say "our government" but it isn't our's anymore.) To me, talk radio is a way to reach a lot more people with as much information as they have on what the government is doing. I believe Lott, Feinstein, Bush, Pelosi, Reid, Martinez (FL republican senator), are afraid we, the people, will find out what they are doing in Washington. THEY DON'T WANT US TO KNOW.

I'm 66 years old but I'm ready to take our government back. With any luck, the middle east nut cases will run their next airplane into Congress. In future years, those dead sicko's will be given a special day by the grateful people of the United States. If not, it will probably be up to my grandchildren to take up arms against a US government that has become Communist.

Gunny writes:
"It wasn't until being a Senator was a stepping stone to becoming a member of the millionair's club that term limits became a problem."

That, my friend, is so very well said and is the very reason for ALL the corruption that is going on in our government today.

Eliminate that, put term limits into law, (not necessarily in that order), and you will have the beginning of the end of our current corruptive congress.

Gunny, I couldn't agree more.

Have a nice day, I'm outta here for now.

Term Limits
It is a loophole in the Founding Fathers vision that Congress was given the power to pass an amendment (22nd I believe) limiting the time a president may serve (2 terms) using the logic that no one should be that powerful for longer yet no other body has the power to limit Congress's terms, only the voters. Prime example of Congressional hypocracy, Presidents should be limited but not Congressmen. We all know that Congress is absolutely the worst at 'policing' themselves. As a body, they are quite a bit more powerful than the President yet I don't know of a good way to control them.
Yes, Robert, we can vote them out but really, they have tilted the scales so heavily in favor of the incumbent, that is seldom done. Average Joe Public has little to no chance of unseating one unless he is a multi-millionaire and the incumbent is found to be so crooked as to have been placed under arrest or got caught with or doing something disgustingly illicit. Heck, even then it doesn't seem to unseat many, look at Freezer Cash jefferson. Last I heard he was still a Congressman, collecting pay and making decisions.
No, I firmly believe we need term limits if for nothing else than insuring new faces and ideas are regularly injected into the mix. No one with a lick of sense could argue that these career people have been good for the country.

The fallacy is that talk radio
shapes opinion. It doesn't.

It *reflects* the opinion of a large segment of the electorate that has been muzzled in frustration until this era of media communications. THAT is the basis of its popularity.

It's also why traditional MSM is losing its viewers/readers. As people come to depend more and more on talk radion for its information, they also stop using the other (liberal) sources.

It and the internet are the truly populist forums, precisely the kind of "town square" discussions envisioned by the Founders, and any government incursion on them should be fought tooth and nail.

Someone always says...
"All we have to do is vote them out."

This is an age where elections are determined by money and marketing. All currently elected senators have more than enough of each. It is an America with far to many mindless automatons subject to mass communications controlled by a relative few. It is an America burdened by poor education and constant brand identification and advertising. No wonder people try to turn on and drop out. Such effective mind-numbing intrusiveness couldn't be accomplished without the cooperation of the corrupt PUFFTOADS in Congress.

I think it is all a side-effect of overpopulation and over-commercialization. Finally, with the aging of the baby boomers, we have slowed our population growth and can perhaps catch our breath and look back with some wisdom. But wait, let's plunge blindly forward by adding fifty million new hispanic consumers over the next twenty years. That will solve all the problems America has.

What did Bush say after 9-11? Everybody go shopping! Get out and spend some money. Leave the worry (and your money) to the over-bribed geniuses in Washington DC.

A vote for a Democrat is a vote for unrestricted immigration forever.

Talk Radio
in America is a hindrance to good governance. It's allowing a tiny group of people in America to rule over everybody else. The GOP allowed this for 6 years, but now they realize they have to listen to the voices of 75% of Americans who know that talk radio is a bunch of bigoted bullies trying to sound tough because they got their butts kicked in grade school, much like the listeners of their shows.

Very Well Said
**Good job Lott and Feinstein
Dear Mr. Limbaugh,

What I see in Lott and Feinstein are two individuals who place the United States first over partisan politics. I credit both individuals for uniting our house and not dividing our house in the spirit of Abraham Lincoln, the forgotten Republican. Perhaps you, Mr. Limbaugh, can learn a lesson from Lott and Feinstein. Working together for the sake of all Americans is a formula for success, working to divide us will doom the United States. However don’t expect to ever see Townhall.com and Limbaugh to put the United States first: they seem to prefer the “Divided States of America”. **

Yankee
Your version of bipartisan is agree with me. My version is build the fence and stop the invasion then we' talk about the rest.

Congress
When Congress actually does something that's in the best interests of this country, I hope the shock doesn't kill me.

Reflections
Mr. Limbaugh nails another one!
Liberals as goofy & gutless as ever!
Lott and Feinstein deserve each other.
A pair of Gutless Cowards who can be bought and sold like any ignorant domesticated swine!

N/A
For the uninformed (I guess this includes you), the money to build the fence has already been appropriated by Congress... the fence is "stalled" due to -- you guessed it -- government (Fed, State & Local) bureaucracy.

We don't need "troops" to guard our border. We need enough well-trained and armed border guards, many of whom COULD come from armed forces veterans and police officers. But more importantly, we cannot hamstring these people with impossible tasks and then not support them when they've got to engage the illegals.

Finally, we need governmental leaders of all stripes to put homeland security and LEGAL immigration at the top of their priority list and demonstrate their seriousness and effectiveness for a period of time before we start discussing how to "legalize" the illegals.

Great screen name, BTW. It fits well with your opinions.

Have a nice day...

Limits
Reading today's comments, seems to me that there ought to be limits in the townhall comments: limit the numbers of times you can post inane comments, and limit the number of words with which you can pollute these pages.

Throw the Boomers under the Bus
Our voice is not being heard by the powers that be because there are so many of the powerful that want us to go away.

The Left doesn't like us because we were raised by "The Greatest Generation" instead of the now Leftist controlled educational system. We have too much of the traditional way still left in us.

The corporations don't want us because they fear they will have to keep their word regarding pensions. Although it is illegal to descriminate on the basis of age, they do nevertheless, and if you darken the door of any corporation, you will see plenty of "thirty-somethings," but few Boomers.

The corporations also want to get rid of us because we are not the ideal advertising target market. Notice how the TV shows are rarely geared toward us? Notice how the popular TV shows are cancelled when the cast reaches "a certain age?"

It is time we make our voices heard!

The Boomers are still the large bump in the Anaconda, and we are only halfway through.

Do you want to spend the next half-century voiceless?

NO!

Then speak up and make yourself heard!

Lexx777 - good.
I have started counting the number of words that YOU post.

Yankee sez
"...a bunch of bigoted bullies trying to sound tough because they got their butts kicked in grade school, much like the listeners of their shows."
***********************************

Sounds like you are describing Leftie Losers like Michael Moore

Term limits aren't enough-recall them
The nation can't survive with the arrogant elitists ruling us. Many states' laws allow recall of senators. Arizona is taking that action against McCainKyl; what is your state doing to get them out of office now? Don't wait for elections in a year or two- the destruction of the country will happen before that.
Start contacting your House representatives, too.

Are Some Republicans Compromised?
I have wondered on occasion, more of late, whether some Republican politicians aren't compromised to the extent that they might be black mailed into actions and omissions or votes which favor the Socialists (democrats).

When I think back on the number of Republicans who have left office under clouds of scandal, I do tend to wonder how many scandals are left which go unreported, unless they say or do the wrong thing.

If I continue to muse over this, I am left with the conclusion that an entire subsystem exists, wherein the Nation's business is manipulated not by votes but by persons who's values and beliefs are not congruent, with the better interests of the people.

Can a Senator or Representative be compromised by their own actions, or the actions of others, which would be scandalous and damaging if known to the public?

Yup! It's a time honored tool which has been used before, most notably by Socialists and Communists of the last century. The Leopard doesn't change it's spots but we have see it don Prada, haven't we?

blbnan
You mentioned your need to whine. What the Mandarin class does not get is that talk radio is a vent for pent up negative energy directed at them. It is like a steam machine and cutting off the hole that the steam comes through while it is still plugged in and getting hot, and hotter and hottest. What happens when one does that? An unattended pressure cooker with no vent ends up with the spaghetti on the ceiling and the walls and the floor and just about everywhere else. These idiots in Washington DC, our so called leaders, should be given a lesson in pressure cooking. We the people are the spaghetti and they are the room.




N/A
Judy is correct. You have been baffled by bullsh*t!
Congress poll is 14% approval rating. That alone tells you much.
Bush's rating is 28%, And we know he's wrong about a whole bunch of stuff [taxes, immigration, SPP(NAU), etc] so what does that tell you about congress?
Kick 'em all out and start over.[If only..]

macthemadman
I like your approach. There seems to be more tot his than any simple statement as to their overblown ego or how rich they are.

Blackmail may well be what we have here. Would be nice to find where it leads.. or comes from..

Bipartisanship and Lott/Feinstein
I love the way David Limbaugh cuts right to the heart of the matter! I read one commentater a few weeks ago who said that Americans were disgusted with Congress because of its constant partisan arguing and inability to accomplish anything. I think that is a lot of hooey. Getting laws enacted in this country is supposed to be difficult. The creators of our government knew that bad laws are much worse than no laws and much harder to recover from. I would take a do-nothing congress over a do-harm congress any day! Limbaugh is right! When all the politicians are happy, be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

Term Limits
If only we could get term limits for congress, it would solve more problems than anything else ever could. It might even cause some of those feckless people to actually have to get a job, and work. It might put realism back into vogue.

Bipartisanship
N/A: Your comment "The above statement is a terrorist threat by you against the United States" to Judy is the kind of thing that makes
liberals think conservatives are all a bunch of ignorant yahoos.

Can you say "Free Speech"?

Judy didn't threaten anyone or is simply wishing now a hate crime?


Yankee blithers:
"Talk Radio
in America is a hindrance to good governance. It's allowing a tiny group of people in America to rule over everybody else."

What an uninformed, stupid statement!

Talk radio and internet blogs are the street corner soapbox of free speech that has served our nation for over 200 years.

There are two groups of people in this country who are afraid to hear the concerns of the average citizen being discussed in an open forum. Those groups consist of the elitists who benefit financially from the ability to influence the government secretly, it the back rooms and corridors. The other group who fears talk radio would be those folks who don't wanted to be confronted with the realities of the world.

Studies have shown conclusively that the "establishment media" leans heavily toward the left wingers. If this were reversed, and the traditional MSM leaned toward the right, I doubt that Yankee would be objecting to the availability of another source of information.

Yankee's attitude regarding talk radio is not unlike the athelete who considers himself to be much more skilled than his opponents, but when he finds himself losing, stalks off the field, declaring that the opponents are only winning because they don't know how to play correctly.

It is interesting, that Yankee uses this forum to complain about "talk radio is a bunch of bigoted bullies trying to sound tough because they got their butts kicked in grade school, much like the listeners of their shows."

Well, there, Yankee, these blogs on the internet are not unlike talk radio, where the average joe and jolene citizen can express their views. One might say that your views sound a little like a, as you would say, " a bigoted bully trying to sound tough because you got your butt kicked in grade school all the time".

Now what I mean, Vern? Can you say freaking hypocrite?

So who decides?

While I'm in full agreement that the need is there, the reality seems to me that our politicians would be the ones to decide on instituting term limits.

What are the chances of that happening?

Don't hold your breath waiting for that particular vote.

The Need For New Republican Leadership
The events of recent days point to the need for new Republican Party leadership. David's brother Rush is right to complain about having to carry the water for the Republicans in absence of effective Republican Party leadership. Among other things, effective Republican leadership would not be insulting rank and file Republicans in the immigration debate and further would eschew bipartisanship generally in today's political world because for the Democrats, it is a one-way street in their favor.

term limits
If the over whelming majority of Americans voted in term limits, one judge would reverse it as going against "the people's choice" because the judge would say " as long as people vote, if they don't want someone they can vote for someone else." The other lie would be that "polls show" people always think term limits is a good idea for other peoples' representatives but they are happy with their own representative.
Just as one judge can overturn the majority of voters voting for the protection of marriage as one woman to one man, one judge can undo our votes.
About Trent Lott, can you do a recall? Does one need a violation of law to have a recall, or does plain old disgust by a number of people qualify a recall?








About Iraq
“Unless we recalibrate our strategy in Iraq to fit our domestic political conditions and the broader needs of U.S. national security, we risk foreign policy failures that could greatly diminish our influence in the region and the world,” Lugar said."

The problem with term limits
You want an unaccountable congress? You want a Congress that NEVER has to listen to what its constituents think? Then let's have term limits by all means.

The problem with term limits is that when he / she is are serving his / her last term, a legislator is accountable to no one. Think they don't listen to you today? Just wait how deaf they become when they realize that there is no accountability at the end of their term, no electorate to face and no angry constituents they have to listen to. That's two years for every congressman and six years for every senator when they can do whatever they want, regardless of how loud and how much their constituents complain.

We adopted term limits for the city council in Nashville a few years ago and it has done nothing but make the problems worse. Every term, roughly half the council cannot seek re-election. Guess which ones sponsor all the controversial zoning legislation. Guess which ones won't return your calls. Guess which ones vote however they want, regardless of what their district wants.

The other half the problem is that when you get somebody who is conscientious, dedicated and wanting to do the right thing, you only have them two terms. Then they are gone, usually to be replaced by someone with much less sense.

I think the Founding Fathers had a good solution for this problem: elections.


Since Hal Donohue Posted As To Lugar
Since Hal Donohue posted at 2:55 PM as to what Senator Lugar said today about Iraq, I will here repeat my post that I did in response to Amanda Carpenter's article on that subject:

"No Thank You, Lugar, Please Retire

"No thank you, Senator Lugar, for making short-sighted comments that serve only to undercut our very capable commander in Iraq, General Petraeus, and to undercut the mission of our troops in harm's way. That Harry Reid is so fulsome in praising Lugar should tell everyone what a nitwit Lugar is being; Lugar is serving the cause of the defeatism whether he intends that result or not. His vague references to costs outweighing benefits is in fact cowardly and does not begin to consider what defeat to the radical Islamists in Iraq would mean.

"My older son is a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab) serving in harm's way as a platoon leader in Iraq. On behalf of my older son and his fellow soldiers, let me say this to Lugar: go to h3ll, you are but one more old Republican who needs to retire now."

Term Limits
I have watched and criticized for years the "no reelection" law in Mexico. I am sure that when instituted in the early twentieth century it appeared to be a good idea.

In reality, it means there is no responsibility to the public. The only loyalty is to the party. You are not going to be reelected so why worry what the people think. In fairness to the truth, they quite often simply switch from the senate to the house and then back again or take a governorship, etc.

I am sure that if we limited a senator to two terms he would simply give up responsibility to us during his second term. Not that I, in principle, am against term limitation. Simply I have watched in horror as these people use the no reelection, "that's term limitation", to reek havoc on a nation, and has only created ruling parties, class distinction through wealth building and generally screw the little guy with useless words and speeches of support which never materialize.

This (our)law that limits your ability to criticize a candidate during the last phases of an election is something for the books, and belongs in the trash bin of history. No wonder they smile when presenting bull crap for legislation.

law breakers
Again, the Senate has voted to support criminals, law-breakers, and outright drug traffickers over American citizens.

Call them now. Impression that choosing criminals over citizenry is a career ending choice, then back it up folks.

I'll be giving monetarily to ANY Senator's campaign that opposes this and giving monetarily to ANY pro-amnesty Senator's opponent.

Phil Byler
""My older son is a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab) serving in harm's way as a platoon leader in Iraq. On behalf of my older son and his fellow soldiers, let me say this to Lugar: go to h3ll, you are but one more old Republican who needs to retire now."

On behalf of the majority of the military
; Thank you Senator

Ken in TN
I hadn't read your post until after posting mine. But you are 100% right. Hang in there. Solutions are everywhere. Workable solutions are not.

Fivo
"Again, the Senate has voted to support criminals, law-breakers, and outright drug traffickers over American citizens."

Isn't it just possible that they voted for what they thought was the good of the country? And not just against talk radio and their fellow travelers the skin heads and nazi party folks?

Hal Donohue, You Don't Know The Military
You don't know the military, so don't write posts, as you did at 3:11 PM, indicating that the majority of the military support Senator Lugar's comments. Defeatist left wingers such as you would love to say that, but it is not true.

Supreme Court shows conservative shift
in rulings. That was the headline of an article attributed to the AP in my morning paper. The article breathlessly tells us about the importance of presidential elections and judicial nominations in describing how Bush has shifted the court to the right.

Naw, no bias here. Just a typical wild-eyed opinion piece by some Molly Ivins wannabe posing as a news reporter writing a simple news story for the AP. Just honest reporting of current events, lol. Gotta create the problem with 'real' news before you can use the op-ed page to scream for correcting the horrors of said problem.

Isn't it possible?
Hal Donohue asks isn't it possible that senators are voting what they believe best instead of responsing to the voices opposing the current immigraiton bill as heard on talk radio? The answer is no, not given how they have conducted themselves. The whole effort has been to pass a bill that is opposed because it represents amnesty, which it does in how the law would work. It is not hate driving the discussion on talk radio; it is the belief that immigration law has greatly suffered from an absence of law enforcement and unless and until there is effective law enforcement, new laws that operate as amnesty are the wrong way to go.

Phil Byler
I refer you to military.com. And yes I do know the military

Phil Byler
"It is not hate driving the discussion on talk radio; it is the belief that immigration law has greatly suffered from an absence of law enforcement and unless and until there is effective law enforcement, new laws that operate as amnesty are the wrong way to go."

I do not think that it is hate I think a lot of it is ignorance and fear. My own position on the immigration bill is propably closest to enforce the laws we have now. But that said I live near Hazleton, PA and was at an anti immigration rally near there they had a very small turnout and 1/3 to nearly a half of the anti crowd were skin heads etc and they are hate. One skin head site calls Mayor Barletta "Saint Louie". A lot of hate is in the mix and from what I observed a lot of fear. But those are just personal observations nothing concrete.

Phil Byler The facts!
Do you think anyone who is against the current Iraq war plan is liberal? Do you think the CIA and military was wrong?

Tenet: CIA warned of ‘anarchy’ in Iraq

This analysis was widely known before the war by anyone who ever read a book about the region. The National Security Adviser under Bush 1 pointed this out before the war in an article called Don’t Attack Saddam! How could any lawmaker vote for the Iraq war without knowing this? And when they made the mistake, why did the President and lawmakers turn a blind eye to the Biden partition plan (originally recommended by the CIA? The CIA was right and the White House and lawmakers were wrong!

USATODAY-SAN FRANCISCO — The CIA warned the Bush White House seven months before the 2003 Iraq invasion that the U.S. could face a thicket of bad consequences, starting with “anarchy and the territorial breakup” of the country, former CIA Director George Tenet writes in a new book.

CIA analysts wrote the warning at the start of August 2002 and inserted it into a briefing book distributed at an early September meeting of President Bush’s national security team at Camp David, he writes

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/tenet-cia-warned-of-anarchy-in-iraq





Phil Byler The Facts!
Do you think anyone who is against the current Iraq war plan is liberal? Do you think the CIA and military was wrong?

Tenet: CIA warned of ‘anarchy’ in Iraq

This analysis was widely known before the war by anyone who ever read a book about the region. The National Security Adviser under Bush 1 pointed this out before the war in an article called Don’t Attack Saddam! How could any lawmaker vote for the Iraq war without knowing this? And when they made the mistake, why did the President and lawmakers turn a blind eye to the Biden partition plan (originally recommended by the CIA? The CIA was right and the White House and lawmakers were wrong!

USATODAY-SAN FRANCISCO — The CIA warned the Bush White House seven months before the 2003 Iraq invasion that the U.S. could face a thicket of bad consequences, starting with “anarchy and the territorial breakup” of the country, former CIA Director George Tenet writes in a new book.

CIA analysts wrote the warning at the start of August 2002 and inserted it into a briefing book distributed at an early September meeting of President Bush’s national security team at Camp David, he writes

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/tenet-cia-warned-of-anarchy-in-iraq





To Hal Donohue
No, you don't. You are just pretending.

I am aware of military.com. That reference does not help you.

Phil Byler
Google me

Phil Byler
It seems incredible to me that on this same post regarding David Limbaugh's column, we have now seen both Dick Lugar and Trent Lott referred to as RINOs.

It would be easier for me to reconcile those statements if it was just Lugar, who has always been an economic conservative motivated less by divisive social issues than he has been by pro-business issues. But Trent Lott cut his teeth as a social "movement" conservative, who has never seen a wedge issue he didn't try to drive deeper to divide people for political advantage.

If these two guys are RINOs, it makes me wonder who is a Republican these days.

My reading of Lugar's statement is that he came up short of calling for withdrawal, abandoning the country or even legislated benchmarks. He simply wants us to change course in the face of a policy that is producing all the wrong results. In short, he sees we have a choice between Waterloo and Dunkirk and prefers Dunkirk.

Given that choice, I find it incomprehensible that anyone would choose to make this the Waterloo of American power. It seems to me that Lugar wants us to focus first on American national interests, the preservation of American power and a smarter effort to combat our real enemies. I think he also recognizes the growing concensus of the American people that they want a change in course and are far ahead of the Congress on this issue. Say what you want about Lugar, but he has always been reality-based. The reality is that a democracy cannot long sustain a war that does not have the support of its people.

So the choice is to plan to a new direction and manage change, rather than letting it manage us as we did in Vietnam. Waterloo vs. Dunkirk. You prefer Waterloo?

Vote them out!
Republican or Democrat, vote them out after two terms wheter they are decent, good , or superior (which isn't saying much) by current standards. Career politicians are the downfall of America and will continue to be so. Term limits are for those too lazy to vote and send a message to those in power.

So What's in the Bill?
Senator Lott complained that the radio talk show hosts don't know what's in the bill. So whose fault is that? Maybe the senate ought to start letting the people know. Then again, maybe the people do and that's why we are against the bill. Compromise is OK so long as it is a bill that is good for America. Seems that the senate is so bogged down that the compromise becomes an end unto itself and the original reason for the bill gets lost. It's time to show me - prove that we are going to enforce immigration law. Then we can talk about some of the rest. Put in a temp worker program - fine but that doesn't need to lead to citizenship. Most of those people are here to work - they obviously aren't interested in becoming citizens of the U.S. (unless spanish/mexican etc. became the official language recently and the mexican flag flew over the U.S. flag). I think that we are going to see more "throw out all incumbents" soon. Just don't vote in democrats unless you want to stop speaking english and learn Islam.

To John Konop
Since Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul may fairly be classified as reactionary paleocons, then no, I don't think everyone who opposes the Iraq War is a liberal.

I think you need to do better than cite George Tenet in making a case against the Iraq War. There was a long list of reasons why Congress voted to authorize the use of force and America led a coalition of nations to remove Saddam from power -- that Saddam was in violation of 17 U.N. arms resolutions, that Saddam had used WMDs against the Kurds, that Saddam was a murderous dictator who allowed terrorist training camps in Iraq and who paid for suicide bombers and so on. That the Iraq War has proved difficult does not mean that the world would have been better if Saddam were left in power. I submit to everyone that the world would be a far more dangerous place if Sadam had been left in power and that the reason that the Iraq War has proven difficult is that the radical jihadists have counter-attacked in an effort to undermine a young democracy in Iraq, which represents a threat to the radical Islamist vision. Consequently, the earlier "light footprint" or "minimalist" strategy did not work -- we did not have enough boots on the ground earlier; but now General Petraeus, the general who is the Army's counter insurgency expert, is in command.

Big Deal, Hal D
Kerry wore a uniform, too. So'd Gore. They're both jackasses.

Your opinions on military matters are no more informed than anyone else's and have no enhanced value whatsoever. Frankly, as a former military man myself, I find most of them pretty damned preposterous.

RINOs? To Ken in TN
Excuse me, but I did not refer to Trent Lott or Richard Lugar as RINOs. I said nothing about Lott. I went after Lugar based on his statement today about Iraq and did so for his undermining General Petraeus and the troops in harm's way in Iraq. Your attack on me is therefore wholly off base, premised on a classification that I did not make or even arguably used. Deal with my actual comments.

Ken in TN
"If these two guys are RINOs, it makes me wonder who is a Republican these days"

That is easy talk radio followers only Oh and some fundementalist sites I think about cover it. Personaly, I love talk radio and Limbaugh et. al.

Concerning all the rest you said about Iraq, all I can say is Amen. Lugar and most generals. You don't have the military.com poll saying the military is no longer behind the Iraq War do you? I am away from my computer

To Hal Donohue
I googled your name. All I get are a few comments by you posted on this townhall.com site and unrelated hits, nothing to indicate even remotely a military connection.

BrianR
LMAO Hello Brian wondered where you had slithered off to.

It was in response to Phil saying I didn't know the military. I do plain and simple. Hope you are well today

Phil
Hal Donahue? If not go to Huffington and do a search

Phil
"That the Iraq War has proved difficult does not mean that the world would have been better if Saddam were left in power. I submit to everyone that the world would be a far more dangerous place if Sadam had been left in power and that the reason that the Iraq War has proven difficult is that the radical jihadists have counter-attacked in an effort to undermine a young democracy in Iraq, which represents a threat to the radical Islamist vision."

I submit to you that it could have been much better if we had not invaded Iraq. If we had established a program that would "dwarf" the Marshall Plan for Afghanistan and captured Osama things good be very much better. And if the marshall type [pl;an worked Saddam probably would not be in power along with a few others. But this is only what if. Reality, I think is pretty much reflected in Lugar's comment and all the Generals speaking out against Iraq. Like General Batist who went so far as to make an Ad saying Bush didn't listen

Slithered, Hal?
I probably have one of the highest profiles on the site.

If anyone's doing any slithering, bud, you can probably see him in the mirror.

Phil Byler
No attack, just observations. I don't do attacks, just discussions. Others have referred to Lugar and Lott today as RINOs and I was referring to those comments.

I was addressing your observations about Lugar and his alleged "defeatism." Or perhaps it was Carpenter's comments. Regardless, it seems to me that continuing to pursue strategies that are producing the wrong results -- defeat if you will -- are closer to defeatism than Lugar's position, which is that we try a new course that might actually work.

Face it. The surge was a last-ditch effort for the administration, a "Hail Mary" pass that now appears to have fallen incomplete, putting the best interpretation on it. Not a single thing we have done has motivated the Iraqi government to do what they need to do. Petraeus said the surge was to buy the Iraqi government time and they have failed to use it.

In short, we have done our job and left a lot of American blood and treasure on the ground doing it. They haven't done theirs. How much longer do we prop them up? How much more do we need to give them? Dunkirk or Waterloo?

BrianR
True LOL I was teasing didn't you make some comment alluding to that when we spoke last time

BrianR
Your slowing down it took you a while to catch that

To Maximus;
"Term limits are for those too lazy to vote and send a message to those in power." Unfortunately you are correct. The majority of today's voters are woefully undereducated on matters of governmnet and politics. Those who participate in these forums at least care about what is going on around them. I have been advocating voter permits issued like driver's licenses. One has to pass a simple test to be sure that one can even read a ballot and to name their Senators and Representatives and be able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, and maybe name the two major political powers.

This has been ill received by most people saying it harkens back to the Jim Crow days but I think it only makes sense to ensure that those who do bother to vote should have a basic knowledge of why they are voting and who they are voting for.
The results of our government schools are beginning to show up in Congress and we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Hal
You asked for that one with the "slithering" comment. LOL

BrianR can be right and he can more often be stupendously, completely wrong, but I've never seen him slither.

To N/A
What you see in Lott and Fienstein is not what I see. I see Lott the RINO hooking up with a liberal DemocRAT. This can in no way be defined as bi-partisanship when they both have the same agenda.

To Hal Donohue
You now say to check your identity at Huffington? That says it all.

You think that things would be better now with Saddam still in power? And you do because you think that Saddam would have agreeable to a Marshall Plan from America? You have got to be kidding. You must miss Saddam thumbing his nose at the international community when in violation of 17 U.N. arms resolutions. You must miss the rape and torture rooms of Saddam's sons. You must miss the gassing of the Kurds. You must miss Saddam attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. You must miss Saddam financing suicide bombers. You must miss the terrorist training camps that Saddam allowed in Iraq and developing ties that Saddam had with al Qaeda. You must miss the safe haven that Saddam gave to the terrorist al Zarqawi. You must miss that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were arbitrarily tortured and killed by Saddam. With your missing those things, you no doubt have given no thought to what the world would be like with Saddam still there and Ahmadinejad next door seeking as he is nuclear weapons and Bin Laden's minins showing up to do business.

Lugar's comment reflects nothing more than cowardice. After the 2006 election, Bush did listen and did rightly decide that we needed a change in strategy from the "light footprint" strategy of General Casey to the "clear and hold" strategy of General Petraeus. As a result, we have in command now in Iraq the expert in counter-insurgency, General Petraeus.

You Misunderstand the Surge, Ken in TN
No, the "surge" really is not a last ditch effort. It reflects the requirements of a "clear and hold" strategy that some such as General Petraeus have believed for some time to be necesssary to deal with the situation in Iraq. The earlier "light footprint" or "minimalist" strategy produced a deadlock. The "clear and hold" strategy is intended to break the back of the foreign jihadist supported and manned insurgency.

Now I must be slipping
Gunny, I actually find myself agreeing with you on voter qualifications. I'm not sure which one of us should be more surprised.

Most people, in my experience, could probably tell you precisely how many days Paris the Heiress served in lock-up, who the father of Anna Nicole's baby is and who Lindsey Lohan is boinking this week. Ask them to name their congressman, name one Supreme Court justice or even their mayor and they look at you like you are from Mars.

Phil Byler
Did you read what I wrote???


"I submit to you that it could have been much better if we had not invaded Iraq. If we had established a program that would "dwarf" the Marshall Plan for Afghanistan and captured Osama things good be very much better. And if the marshall type [pl;an worked Saddam probably would not be in power along with a few others. But this is only what if. Reality, I think is pretty much reflected in Lugar's comment and all the Generals speaking out against Iraq. Like General Batist who went so far as to make an Ad saying Bush didn't listen"


Phil Byler
"Bush did listen and did rightly decide that we needed a change in strategy from the "light footprint" strategy of General Casey to the "clear and hold" strategy of General Petraeus. As a result, we have in command now in Iraq the expert in counter-insurgency, General Petraeus."

What will you do when General Petraeus says the surge failed which he is close to saying now. Better yet what will you say or do when he resignsand joins Batist and the other generals

A couple of observations:

Hal Donahue: are you what they call a Monday morning quarterback? Because I sure get that impression. All smoke; no fire.

Ken in TN: you seem almost as bad as HD, no offense. While I semi-understand your concerns about the war, I want to know why we, you, all of us are not getting a complete picture of what's going on over there.

Not that I don't have full faith and confidence in the unbiased, objective MSM, of course. But it sure seems to me that a great deal of the puzzle doesn't get proper exposure.

We hear time and again from military people currently over there or recently returned lamenting the fact that the news coverage is at best a disservice and at worst downright inaccurate.

How can anyone form a qualified, unassailable position based upon incomplete information?

Hal, Ken
I'm not just sitting here at my computer like it's a chat room, so there's some lag in my commenting.

Hal, I don't remember all the particulars of comments I've made in the past, so I have no idea. Every day's a new one, with fresh dragons to slay.

Ken, you may think I'm often wrong, but then that's probably due to your perspective, no?


Paulie
"Hal Donahue: are you what they call a Monday morning quarterback? Because I sure get that impression. All smoke; no fire."

Oh no I have opposed invading Iraq and not getting Al Q and Osama from the beginning.

Want to know what is really going on over there? Let's see Iraq is roughly a tenth the size of the US but suffers the equivalent of a 9/11 every month or so and the equivalent of a VA tech every day. That is exactly what is going on over there.

BrianR
No harm no fould it was a tease nothing more

sorry
I must get going perhaps later. Be well all

Don't get me wrong, Phil
I am a great fan of David Petraeus. He commanded the 101st Airborne at Ft. Campbell near here and was a tremendous leader. He also is the author of the counterinsurgency doctrine now being taught at the service academies and war colleges. He also led the 101st in the early days of the occupation near Mosul, where his COIN strategies kept this combustible area as quiet as any area in Iraq, at least until he was transferred out of theater.

But "clear and hold" isn't a strategy designed to break anybody's back. It's designed to buy time for political reconciliation. Petraeus has said many times there is no military solution in Iraq, only a political one. His purpose is to buy security, time and support from the population to solve their differences peacefully. Instead, the Iraqi Parliament palns to use the sacrifices of our troops so that they can take July and August for vacation.

The problem is that nothing we have done and nothing on the horizon is going to move the al Maliki government, which is so weak at this point it can't even keep the power and water on in the Green Zone. We can take every foreign jihadist off the streets today and we've still got a civil war on our hands between people who believe democracy means electing a government to persecute the other side.

Listen to Petraeus lately and he's singing a completely different tune than when he took command. Before it was a surge, now its a long-term commitment. The September report was supposed to be the one that would tell us whether our surge was working, now its just a progress report in an ongoing struggle. Reality is starting to sink in that the insurgency is like a tube of toothpaste, squeeze it in one place and it just pops out somewhere else.

So do we keep busting our heads against this brick wall, dissipating American power, lives, treasure and influence for people who refuse to take advantage of the opportunity we've given them? Is this truly in America's best interest?


Paulie
If you are not getting a complete picture of what is going on in Iraq, you have only yourself to blame.

Yes, I read the MSM and many of the lefty and righty sites but I also go far beyond the "popular" media. Many excellent books have been written about this war. Many very good, serious academic studies have been done. One of my favorite reads is the monographs done for the Strategic Studies Institute of the Army War College. Another excellent source of original documentary material is globalsecurity.org, which publishes original reports from the CIA, the Pentagon, the Iraq Study Group and other groups.

A lot of good information is also available from the Council on Foreign Relations, the Center for Defense Information, the National Security Network and even the Nieman Foundation, which does a lot of good media critiques on Iraq and other topics.

The information is out there if you want it.

Let's Be Fair To General Petraeus
Let's be fair to General Petraeus and not take liberties with what he has said.

General Petraeus is not even close to saying the surge is a failure.

General Petraeus has said that the surge in itself cannot solve the Iraqi situation and that political action is necessary. But that does not mean that military action is not a component of success; it is; and the political action necessary is the establishment of the Iraqi government throughout Iraq, not some reconstituted coalition government. The northern part of Iraq -- Kurdish Iraq -- is already a success, and southern Shiite parts are relatively quiet, although they face Iranian influence. There is some progress with the Sunni tribalists turning against al Qaeda.

I don't think that General Petraeus has changed his tune since taking command. He has made measured statements because he wants to emphasize that solving the Iraqi situation is not a matter of an overnight fix and that is not a matter of purely internal Iraqi developments. You have Iran next door being the arms merchant of opportunity to everyone, and you have al Qaeda in northwestern Pakistan throwing what it has against the current Iraqi government. The whole situation is very complicated, but we are in a war with the radical Islamists whether we like it or not.

jmag: It's just as simple as that!

"...build the fence and stop the invasion then we' talk about the rest."

And we DON'T need a ga-zillion page bill with more and more amendments to fix the real problem.

It's not rocket science. It's common sense!

Oh, and two more things.
1. Get rid of Johnny Sutton!
2. Get Ramos and Campean out of prison...NOW!






Well, Hal
You're gone, and I'm in and out, mostly out tonight.

So we'll consider our lances tipped.

If you do see this:

Your comments did actually stimulate my memory, and I do recall that the last time we got into an argument, I promised that you were in my sights due to some really outrageous statements you'd made. That was either you or Roberto (see the company you keep?).

I've been remiss in my self-imposed duty.

It won't happen again.

Lott/Feinstein
If there was ever an argument for term limits, it was the pathetic spectacle on Fox News this past Sunday. The people of Mississippi should be be mortified by Trent Lott's performance. This is not the first time he has shown himself to be an incumbent Senator first, and an American second. He of the Washington elite, wishes to remain there, constituents, and country be damned. This is an all too common consequence of repeated re-elections to a seat in the Senate, or House. It's sad, but it's real. People take note. Senator Feinstein, on the other hand was only doing what she is paid to do by her constituents...legislate as a socialist.

Ken in TN
Your completely wrong. Nice to know all the fools don't reside in Ca. Your measuring Iraqi's by western standards. You lack a fundemental understanding of ME culture. Secondly, fight them now, or fight a much broader war later at a higher cost. What's it gonna be? We will be there for decades at least anyway due to pure geography.

Ken in TN and N/A
Ken....Luger has always been for sale to the highest bidder.

N/A...your handle is appropriate because you are non-applicable.


re Iraq
Today Wed Jewish World Review, read the article "An Exit to Disaster" By Michael Gerson
It is an excellent article.


one theory
I have heard the theory from Savage and from others that the attack on talk radio is part of Hillary's plan to kill anything that is not in her favor. First she took out Imus, since he was an outspoken critic of hers and he had a following. Now comes the attack on conservative talk radio. She works with Soros and his money and his foundations and his people and they get it done. People get the government they deserve. Do you really want someone like this as president to follow George Bush, whose arrogance the conservatives are just beginning to see?



A PRAYER FOR AMERICA!

sir aslan writes: Thursday, June, 28, 2007 3:57 AM

WHAT PRICE FREEDOM? A PRAYER FOR AMERICA

As I post this thought at 0200 hrs in the morning, my thoughts are on the Senate of the United States of America and the sadness that overwhelms me as most of our Senators have turned their backs on the will of the American people! I am getting all kinds of emails at this early hour of the morning regarding the treasonous activities that are taking place as we speak of those Satanic forces at work who have planned to bring America to her knees and dismantel our country from within in order to establish and have us submit to a global totalitarian dictatorship by the blue bloods of the Washington Elite and all of those who are determined on admitting America into the regional body of the north american free trade organization which proposes to tear down all borders between the United States, Mexico and Canada..thereby implementing and taking away the Sovereignty of Americans and authority to our Legislative Branch of government to approve and disapprove all agreements both foreign and domestic and which does away with all borders between those countries permanently.

Our Leaders, Journalists and some Ministers and Rabbis are too afraid to speak out against the conspiratorial plans of the CFR and have become spineless yes men and women who are willing to follow George W. Bush who has become their pied piper over the edge of the cliff of no return into the pit of Hades.

The only thing to do in this hour of total desparation and despair is to get down on our knees and call out to almighty God and to ask him to spare the Nation, spare America and send us a sign in this our greatest hour of need. Oh Lord, our father...the time for talking is over, it is now up to you, for we are weak and unworthy. We shall do our part, but if there is any glory to be had, it is the glory that would honor you our Lord which in return might spare us as a nation in order to continue your work.

We ask you to send legions of angels to assist us and to watch over those leaders who are willing to take a stand and go up against the Satanic Forces of World Marxism and Secular Humanism that would push us into the implementation of a totalitarian regime of North America with the merger of America , Candada and Mexico.

We must once againg ask the most high God to send us his Spirit out of the heavens and on the wings of angels and to breathe it into our leader or leaders in order to fight for the continued Liberty and Freedom of the American
people in order to protect our Judeo/Christian values and culture which is under imminent attack from the Hegelian/Marxist/Socialists along with their Communist and Secular Humanist brothers and sisters in the CFR.

The Lord once said in his word that if he could find enough Godly men and women of righteousness that he would spare the Nation as he did in earlier times and as he spared Israel in earlier times. We now ask him to remember those things
written in his Holy Word which he has promised and to spare us from the forces of darkness and open the eyes of those who for some reason cannot or will not see the evil forces of Marxist World socialism which calls for for Secular Humanism that has been laid out by the CFR since the early 1920's.

Lastly, it is now your will Lord! Whatever shall happen is in your hands but rest assured that we will fight till the last breath in order to preserve our heritage, values and freedom in order to continue to honor you...for you have given us your holy book which has foretold what will happen in the end if we do nothing. Also, we know that you have prepared a place for all of your children who love you. It is not the power of man or any of us who can turn the tide of evil...it is your will Lord and we give you praise no matter what happens for thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We ask this in the name of your son...and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ..who shed his blood as the sacrificial lamb for the atonement to cover our sins that we might one day be worthy to sit at the foot of your throne Lord...Amen.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rErukvYVPOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVNGxJdjVkw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhJch1437-g





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