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Tuesday, April 24, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
It Depends What the Meaning of "Support" Is
by David Limbaugh
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One is entitled to wonder how the prime movers in today's Democratic Party would behave differently if they were trying to dispirit our troops and embolden the enemy.

Early on in the Iraq war I watched in disbelief as Democrats, one by one, then group by group, with malice aforethought, fraudulently accused President Bush of something they knew to be false: that he deceived the nation about Iraqi WMD to start a war he had been predetermined to launch since before he was conceived because a) he wanted revenge against Saddam for his father, b) he wanted Iraq's oil for the United States, c) he wanted Iraq's oil for Dick Cheney or d) he is a neoconservative dogmatist who believes democracy is a panacea and preemptive wars to convert tyrannies to democracy are our new Manifest Destiny.

Yes, they accused our commander in chief of lying us into war -- thus savaging his reputation and that of the United States before the entire world -- all the while complaining that President Bush had damaged our reputation in the international community.

Just to make sure there was no misunderstanding as to their intent to destroy his (and the nation's) image, they remained at their megaphones to shriek, incessantly, that Mr. Bush hadn't given Saddam enough time and chances to comply with U.N. resolutions (though he'd violated umpteen of them). This sent an unmistakable signal to the world that it was President Bush that had been unreasonable and in the wrong on this war.

To further emphasize their message, Democrats branded Bush as a unilateralist, flagrantly ignoring that he had desperately tried to bring as many nations as he could into the coalition and did succeed in convincing a significant number. They also condemned him for initiating a preemptive war -- even though their best hope at the time, John Kerry, later acknowledged that preemptive war under certain circumstances had always been an acceptable strategy of the United States.

On into the war, Democrats couldn't bad mouth our progress often and loudly enough. For example, they proclaimed, quite gleefully, that the Iraqi people did not greet us as liberators, but occupiers, leaving no doubt they would rather have that dismal result if it meant discrediting their nemesis President Bush. At times they even downplayed the landmark Iraqi elections as insignificant and illusory.

Though Democrats have always maintained, counter-logically, that they supported the troops even while they were busy Sheehanizing the war, they couldn't help but reveal their true colors on many occasions, such as when Sen. Kerry accused our soldiers of terrorizing Iraqi civilians or when Sen. Durbin likened the Gitmo prison to the Soviet, Nazi and Cambodian death camps. Nor must we forget that Durbin did not actually apologize for his outrage, saying only that he was sorry that people misunderstood him. But they didn't.

Despite these precedent-breaking acts of disloyalty, the Democrats weren't finished outdoing themselves. Nancy Pelosi proved that when she went to Syria over the president's strenuous objections, to engage in diplomacy with Syrian tyrant Bashar Assad on behalf of the United States (at least as she wished it to be), though she was utterly without legal or moral authority to do so. Surely, we thought, the very leader of the entire House of Representatives wouldn't go that far and contradict and undermine, so overtly, the official foreign policy of the United States. We were wrong.

Just when we thought they couldn't stoop lower, we witnessed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's latest disgrace, telling the world, including our troops, that we have lost the war in Iraq. While Reid and his spinning staff and colleagues tried to backpedal, there is no mistaking his words. There is even less excusing them.

It's time for Harry Reid to explain how he can justify funding the war for another month, much less another year, when he believes there is no chance of securing the goal for which our troops are fighting and dying. At least President Bush isn't asking soldiers, in the words of that great patriot John Kerry, to die for a mistake, for President Bush believes they are fighting for a noble and essential cause. So what is the Democrats' excuse?

It's hard to tell anymore whether the Democrats' deplorable actions are motivated more by their psychological predisposition against recognizing evil in the world (except among American political conservatives), or their raw quest for power. But perhaps Sen. Reid's recent statement to reporters sheds some light on the question.

"We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war," said Reid. "Sen. Schumer has shown me numbers that are compelling and astounding."

Enough said.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Mr. Limbaugh
It's hard to believe that the dims could stoop lower as you said, but there's always tomorrow and they will stoop even lower. They have no shame.

They do not support our troops because it is more important to them to gain power and Senate seats by pacifying the hard left in this country.

Their country does not come first.
Power comes first for the dimocraps.
The troops don't mean a thing to them.

too bad
The leadership in the Senate are using the war to discredit the President. It is obvious they really don't care about our troops. they will do anything for power.
It is hard to believe they are still there based upon the laws they have broken.
1, Chuckie- Illegal release of Richard steel's personal information.
2. Dirty Harry- real estate fraud.
3. Dianne- on the finance commettee while her husband is bidding(and getting) War contracts.

Republican's Fault
The Republicans who had the opportunity refused to lead, refused to stand up, so the Democrats filled the void. The Republicans continue to provide the wind beneith the Democrats wings. I blame the Republican party for the cr*p that the Democrats are now empowered to dish out. Now, the Republican party wants to shove a RINO candidate down our throats. The Republican party brings no value.

Pardon my rant.......
Look, you conservatives whackos, Democrats fought hard to get the power to control the masses back, and they aren't about to give it up over some idiotic sense of loyalty to country or belief in a free republic. Power and control is all that matters, and if Democrats have to embrace the most horrific totalitarian leaders of our time as a means to discredit our ideological enemies, then so be it.

The problem with conservatives is that they have some misguided notion that the United States is some special country, when in fact it has been the source of all of the world's ills for centuries. Since the dawn of time, all wars, all inequity, all injustice, and even the bad weather has been the fault of the United States. Ergo, the left realizes that our nation as an entity is an abomination, and seeks to have the American culture and economic system crushed. Democrats tire of the constant battle to remain in power, and Democrats dislike having to court the lowest elements of society just to achieve a majority of the vote. But, tiresome though it may be, the morons are easy to manipulate, so Democrats will continue to twist all news so as to make the current occupant of the White House out to be the true source of evil in the world, and not the Mid-East lunatics that vow to eradicate all non-Muslims from planet.

Hence, if a brutal element that courts a perverted interpretation of a particular religion wishes to incinerate U.S. cities, and eliminate religious and other basic freedoms, then Democrats are all for it - just so long as DEMOCRATS remain in power. Democrats will laugh even as millions of American dead are tallied from biological and nuclear hits, for those in the Party will ensure that regardless of the ensuig slaughter, they will have a steady flow of lobster and filet mignon to stuff down their gullet as the citizens wither under the stings of the radiation burns. And as Allah's warriors behead those that refuse to convert, Democrats will pop the cork on the champaign and toast the new empire. Democrats and Jihadists will form a new partnership, and through that alliance the people will finally know who the real masters are. Democrats will finally be free to rule as they know best, unhindered by critics, unafraid of losing the majority of the vote. And that is certainly worth committing treason any day.



Try this:
"It is fashionable but ridiculous to assert that we invaded Iraq on 'false pretenses'. It is a fact that Iraq started the war in 1990 with the invasion, rape, and annexation of our ally and charter member of the UN General Assembly, Kuwait. Combat operations carried on from 1991 until the present day.

Iraq comprehensively violated the terms of the ceasefire agreement and subsequent Chapter VII Resolutions, which stipulated among many other things that it was Iraq's obligation to disarm in a transparent and verifiable way. Hans Blix made it perfectly clear in his last report that Iraq had manifestly refused to do so. In order to arrive at even this unsatisfactory point we had been required to assemble an army of nearly half a million on the edge of the Arabian desert. With a steadily narrowing window for operations before the onset of summer, we were faced with a choice of invade or surrender to Saddam, who could have pulled the plug on the operation almost to the last moment by simply complying with his obligations.

http://mgraves.townhall.com/g/9287679f-d3f2-4e3e-8a07-41520a6ec3d8

Reid must go!
I wish that the republicans and those who lean that way would demand Reid's resignation. I wish they would demand it and encourage each and every person they know to demand his resignation. Until it happens.

tanabear
One thing is true, "neo-con" has become the new anti-semetic code word for Jew. I notice you mention neo-cons alot. Hmmm?

Moonbats
Go pound sand!

*INHALE...*
"David seems upset that people point out the obvious fact that what Bush and the neo-cons stated before the war was not true."

What the people who still hold a vendetta against President Bush since the 2000 'whooping' fail to point out is that Bush, the neo-cons, the libs, the potheads, the commies, the scrubs and the narcissists all stated the same thing 'before the war'. They also conveniently forget that the initial WMD argument was one of several. "War for Oil" sound familiar? How much do you pay per gallon for gas?

"Their execution of this war has been so wretched that no one can defend it."

All accounts that I have heard from the people there actually fighting point out that progress continues to be made. Since they volunteered to go there & fight for me, theirs are the reports that I'll be trusting.

"The best a Bush supporter can do is go after those that don't like Bush, but they can't make a positive case for the the war."

While I don't agree with some of his policies, it was he that was elected, not I. Even if I disagree with some of his stances, I will not allow my views to undermine his authority as it pertains to the War on Terror. You know, good of the country & all that.

"Yes, what Bush, Cheney, and the neo-cons stated before the war had no basis in the intelligence."

See ^^. Have you convinced yourself, yet? Oh and Halliburton, don't forget them.

"As well, the neo-cons had been agitating for war with Iraq throughout the 1990's. This is well-documented."

We fought a war in Iraq in the 1990's. This is well documented. We kicked butt. That also is well documented. Was there a point?

"David is upset that some people are pointing this out. "

Leave it to the left to let all the transgressions by their herd-mates, stated in Mr. Limbaugh's article, slide nicely & neatly under the carpet. It's all a game of deception,
sidestep the issue and throw down some leftist scrub talking point trash and hopefully nobody noticed. Our president must be pretty popular, as his name is every 3rd word.

Supporting troops with more than words
If the posters here want something to be outraged about, read the Inspector General's report on the Pentagon on disability ratings. The report states that comparisons between VA and Pentagon show that the Pentagon 'consistently' underrates soldiers applying for disability benefits. In fact 93% of ground troops injured while serving their country have received low ratings. Not only that, but since the hostilities in Afghanistan and Iraq began, the number of soldiers receiving full disability benefits has DROPPED by more than 50%.

The Army Times is currently doing a series, apparently Mr. Limbaugh and other columnists are unaware of this, or if they have are rather selective in their notions of supporting the troops. Why aren't they writing about this issue?

Support the Troops
Support the troops by never again asking them to go anywhere for any reason other than to annihilate the foe.

Peloski and Reid
Should be tried for Treason and hanged! As should any Republicans that stand with them!

OH LD.....Tanabear
How perfectly you catch it....I am going to repost this on my blog...you are going to be my feature.You ROCK!!

TB, if only you had mentionined shill you'd have made Fergus' day. Darn it. But hey, the rest of us get a kick out of your neo-con use. You were almost the first monkey to post on Limbaugh's column...shootin for Monkey-girls place, are you?

Support the Troops
When liberals say they support the troops, they are being perfectly honest, though in their own distorted way.

In their view of the world, they conceptually separate the individual from what he does - this is the basis for their repudiation of personal responsibility. To them, a soldier is a person, not a fighting machine.

Furthermore, the individual soldier is not responsible for what he does as a soldier - he has been brainwashed and is an unwitting tool of Bush et al.

So in their way of thinking, individual soldiers are victims, and should be supported in their struggle to realize their enslavement to the Bush war machine.

The art of lying
Good article, Limbaugh.

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the consummate skill with which the libs construct a lie out of the proverbial kernel of truth.

The kernel of truth is that planning for the aftermath of the invasion was woefully inadequate, reflecting a basic ignorance of the long-standing Shia-Sunni animosities that were very quickly exploited by our enemies.

The liberals have taken this and used it to discredit the entire war effort, to isolate it from the overall war on terror, and in the process to seriously discredit our country and to fuel the efforts of those who wish us removed from the face of the earth.

Why? Out of what can only be described as a visceral hatred of George Bush, a hatred so intense that it warrants placing our very survival in jeopardy.

They know that a lie repeated often enough carries the ring of truth, particularly to people who are incapable of critical thought. That's a lot of people. They've trained them well.












Lying TH
What Reid said: "If we follow our present course, the war is already lost." Many conservatives at TH agree with that. When the Republican noise machine strips off the first half, it produces a lie.

"fraudulently accused President Bush of something they knew to be false: that he deceived the nation about Iraqi WMD..." -- They had no evidence yet spoke of mushroom clouds.

"..to start a war he had been predetermined to launch since before he was conceived.." -- there is evidence that planning the Iraq war preceeded 9/11

".. because a) he wanted revenge against Saddam for his father, b) he wanted Iraq's oil for the United States, c) he wanted Iraq's oil for Dick Cheney or d) he is a neoconservative dogmatist who believes democracy is a panacea and preemptive wars to convert tyrannies to democracy are our new Manifest Destiny." -- They had beliefs, that's true. What bothers thoughtful Americans is that they didn't have any facts. People who actually knew about the region (e.g. that Sunnis and Shiites don't like each other) were kept out of the loop.

Limbaugh has lived in America all his live but never understood it. It's a place you need a thick skin. People will criticise you. You can counter arguments with arguments. The "disloyalty" line never worked and hopefully never will.

A question and a comment
First, could someone please define the word lie? I always thought it meant telling an untruth intentionally while knowing the real truth.

Next, Reid should resign not only from his leadership position but from the Senate for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Also, his land deal should be thuroughly investigated.

Mr. Limbaugh
I don't believe I've ever seen the Dems' actions laid out so succinctly.

It makes me cringe, but it rings so true.

tanabear
There's a chance you're a good person. Such a shame your memory is so bad that you've been easy to brainwash. Completely.

J-Dawg
I love you.

Well, at least "well said."

Be careful David
Be Careful David so much truth in so few words may cause the a leftist media burnout.

Oh, never mind I forgot they do not think they just mouth talking points

Democrats have trapped themselves.
Whatever happens now in Iraq will harm Democrats.
WHEN we win it is in spite of Democrat sabotage.
If we were to loose it is because of Democrat sabotage.
Democrat flip flopping on National security has proven they are not competent to govern America.

People will not forget these acts of treason when they vote in 08.
We must not let them.

While you read this, remember Reid & Pelose were both on the Intelligence Committie
http://bullwinkleblog.com/?page_id=3287

Pathetic
It is quite pathetic to see so many people still support Bush's mistake in Iraq. The only reason we are still there is Bush's refusal to admit he was wrong.

liberalgoodman
I believe it was only later, upon reflection perhaps, that Reid added "if we follow our present course." Maybe I only saw part of his speech, but I saw "THIS WAR IS LOST."

Are you suggesting that if we had only realized that the Sunnis and the Shiites "don't like each other" this war would have been easily won? Or that we should never have called Saddam on his numerous cease-fire violations, but rather continued the pernicious, corrupting "Oil for Food" sham, crossing our fingers that Saddam really didn't have WMDs and wouldn't supply them to terrorists to use in the U.S.?

And after the first nuclear attack within the U.S., what would the Dems have crowed? Gee, no wonder they're angry that we stopped Saddam and that we're keeping the various terrorist groups too busy and too disorganized to hit us at home again.

MyOpine
Good point. Seeing the dimocraps in action how can we ever trust them with fighting the GWOT?

Rush is right
when he says that the democrats "own defeat." It will be forever remembered that democrats won't fight for the country EVER and we have the proof of that. It frightens me to consider that they may be in control of the white house.

Civilian leaders don't support troops
It really chafes me that the phrase "support the troops" has become a code word for supporting the president and his policies. If it weren't so tragic and the results so bad for America, it would be comical.

The hard fact is that our civilian leaders have never supported the troops since the day this war began. They threw them into a war with an ill-defined mission, bad strategy, the wrong tactics and no exit plan. They tried to gloss over the fact that we weren't giving them the additional manpower and equipment they needed. Then they repeatedly tried to deny all the problems, which prevented us from taking actions to solve them while they only got worse.

Years of careful war planning were thrown out the window so we could indulge Rumsfeld's fantasy of small force war. The result was that we couldn't protect our rear areas, couldn't guard our convoys (talk to Jessica Lynch about this) and, most importantly, could not secure the caches of munitions that are now appearing daily as IEDs on roadsides all over Iraq.

The same president who now tells us he doesn't believe politicians should overrule generals allowed Rumsfeld to overrule them time and again. He allowed Paul Bremer's reconstruction team to overrule the military on his de-Ba'athification policies and the dissolution of the Iraqi Army, thereby almost single-handedly creating the Sunni insurgency. In every case, Americans died because of their bad decisions. Our troops continue to pay the price for these decisions today.

The same president who told us that he would be guided by the advice of his generals has never listened to them. Every time reality intruded and our commanders urged a needed change of direction, the White House has responded by changing commanders. Most of our retired senior military officers, those who can speak freely, have now broken with the president on his policies. Do our generals and admirals not support the troops or is it their support of the troops, the men and women they have led into combat, caused them to dissent?

It has gotten so bad that the White House can't even find a person to take the "war czar" position they are creating to implement war policy. Five retired generals, including the one who helped write the surge strategy, Gen. Keane, have turned him down. The basic problem, according to retired Marine Gen. Jack Sheehan who also turned down the job, is that the Bush team "doesn't know where the hell they are going."

Even today, in our fifth year of this war, the administration is still not supporting the troops. The purpose of the "surge" into Baghdad and Anbar province was to quiet the violence in those areas long enough to allow the Iraqis to begin reaching the political accommodations needed for peace. Even Secretary of Defense Gates and Gen. Petraeus have stated there is no military victory left to win. Any solution in Iraq must be political. Yet even as retired generals, Congress, the Iraq Study Group and many others have urged the administration to push for political solutions, they have refused. No engagement with Iran or Syria, no timetables or deadlines for the Iraq government to meet, no diplomatic "surge" to accompany the time-buying military surge. This not only undermines the administration's own strategy but it undercuts our troops. As a result, more Americans will die needlessly.

Yes, it's a bad idea for Congress to micro-manage the war. Yes, it is naive for Speaker Pelosi to open her own foreign policy shop. And yes, Majority Leader Harry Reid could have spoken more carefully. Yet I see all these as the rhetorical equivalent of throwing cold water in the president's face, trying to get him to face reality. He appears to be increasingly isolated, disconnected and unable to lead on Iraq or other issues. We hear the same tired platitudes over and over, yet there is no evidence we are doing anything to move forward. And yet American troops continue to die.

So, Mr. Limbaugh, there is a short simple answer to your question of how Democrats would behave if they were trying to disporit our troops and embolden our enemies. They could support the president.

Demopubs ruining country
The democrats and liberal Repubs still don't get it.
Demos want out of Iraq like most Americans but they want to rob the people while their at it, with massive "unrelated to war" pork barrel.

Repubs want to spend your grandkids future on doing the same thing in Iraq except more troops being policemen instead of soldiers. More troops sitting in harm's way with hands tied by bureacrats deciding their future.

When is the American people going to realize we should have stuck to the wisdom of our forefathers and the Constitution.

Will it be when there is no more America as we know it.
God help us all.

To all
It's frankly rather embarassing that so many are focusing their attention on the comments of a blowhard politician while the Pentagon is undercutting soldiers who were injured and disabled while serving their country.

Also, throwing Reid under the train will do nothing to change the facts on the ground in Iraq. Reid has been majority leader for 3 months. The administration has had 4 years to conduct the war with a free hand. It is under their watch that Iraq, a country that had no significant terrorists prescence, has become a breeding and training ground for the terrorists.

Lastly, the terrorists are only the incindiary fuse. The real powder keg is sectarian violence. Thanks to the incompetent conduct of this war we are in a situation where all we can do is react to events and the ground while we wait for the parties involved to duke it out.

Is it only power they want?
Having watched the Democratic Party operate for more than several decades now, it is hard to understand today what they really want and what their long term goals are. They are either extremely distracted seeking power for power's sake, extremely naive about the rest of the world and what history teaches, or they or at least their leaders are evil. Maybe it is all of the above.

Why else would one ignore an enemy with power, wealth, intelligence and a clearly stated desire to destroy our country?

Why else would the present Democratic leadership, supposedly educated and knowlegeable ignore history, especially the history of war? Korea and Vietnam were tied or lost using the same political strategies that the Democrats want us to live by today. WWI and WII were won because we fought these wars to win. If the same thinging had been prevalent during the early days of our involvement in WWI or WWII neither the USA or the World would be the better places they are.

Anyone leader, especially national leaders MUST understand war, especially modern war. The Democrats still live in the 1960s and believe in their hearts that they did a really good thing in 1975.

Ladies and Gentlemen we are where we are today because of the Democratic Party Leadership both past and present. It is to bad the lessons of the past leadership are lost totally on today's Democrats.

I believe that the Democratic Party is focused on one thing and one thing only, power for power's sake. Anything that will bring together just enough people to gain power is all they desire. Once this group of Democratis Leaders gain complete power the country will be in deep trouble.

staying with the sinking good ship Bush?
Limbaugh trying to blame the Democrats for Bush and the neo cons' complete failure in the world. But you other folks? Are you being paid? Are you so insular as to never read any opposing points of view? Congress' responsibility is to demand accountability and provide oversight of the executive branch. They are doing that. And don't try to blame the Democrts for terrorist attacks it is this incompetant administration that has made us so vulnerable

ken in tn
great post! Thanks for reminding posters here that the real issue is the admin's conduct of the war for the last 4 years, not the recent comments of a politician.

Again I ask, why aren't Limbaugh and other columnists calling for Reid's head writing about the lack of support for injured soldiers returning from the battlefield.

LGM
No matter the quote by Reid any way you look at it he is saying the US is losing. Libdrools like you just don't understand the problem we have with that. They think we will just do everything in our power to defend GWB no matter what he does as if we were libtards who will do anything to gain or hold onto power. We will always criticize our leaders when we feel it is necessary and no matter how many times conservatives do so it goes unnoticed by libdolts. Let me see if I can break this down for you, I will go slowly so you can keep up:

If Mr. Reid or any dimocr@p went to President Bush's office and made their concerns known or did so out of the view of cameras and reporters, and if they would even bother to consider how their constant screeching makes our country look or what it does to the troops and the citizenry, in other words: if they acted like patriotic American statesmen, rather than doing everything they can to embarass him and make us all look like warmongers, then we might feel differently. This constant harping on how dissent is patriotic and the basis of America itself is a bunch of hooey. All of that is true when it is carried out with a sense of dignity - something dims know nothing about. On top of that we have the constant blare of Bush lied when every effin Dim knew and said the same things even before he was in office. Demoncats will do everything they can to lie and twist things so as to gain the votes of those who either get all of their news from the MSM or can count on free stuff from them, and they do all of this for the express purpose of regaining the WH - not because it's best for the country. Mr. Reid turned down an opportunity to meet face to face with GWB to discuss the war and instead chose to go before the micropohones to hammer him yet again. The truth of the matter is Dimocr@ps have no class and are traitors to the men and women in arms and they are simply not interested in what's good for the citizens of this country.

Second if our military was not planning for war with a host of different countries at all times based on the situations around the world - they would not be doing their jobs. Are you so naive to believe that they were not doing the same things under Klinton and every other friggin' President? Get a clue man.

Third, everyone thought Saddam had WMDs and your point about them speaking about mushroom clouds, which could have been true if the intelligence (of which there is no evidence that it was manipulated) was accurate, as if they were "lying " is preposterous. That is the nature of intelligence and in fact that is what Saddam wanted the world to believe. Guess what? It worked.

Finally, every criticism the President receives on the prosecution of the war is well deserved. I too am frustrated by our failure to use the full might of our military and dealing effectively with Iran and Syria for their interference. I hate the ROEs and the failure to effectively predict the postwar situation. But that is the nature of war. However to simply stand around like a bunch of babies whining is ridiculous. Dimocr@ps are always so smart after the fact and when they do their armchair qaurterbacking but if they were so freakin' smart why weren't they voting against the war when they had the chance? Answer: because they didn't know either. Now they don't care who they hurt of how badly they damage the country in the eyes of the world - they're gonna tear Bush down. Basically they suck.

Support The Troops
The problem with the Democrats is that they will not come up with a plan to deal with Iraq other than to bash the President. This was no more apparent than Sen. Dick Durbin's appearance on the Chris Matthews Hardball program last night. Matthews, who is about as partisan as they come asked Durbin what the Democrats plan was for Iraq, and all Durbin could do was hem and haw and make the usual noise about the administration's mishandling of the whole thing.
So the end game is, the Democrats want defeat in Iraq to translate into victory in 2008.
The President continues to be about the poorest example of a communicator as has ever inhabited the White House, and he shows us nothing happening on the diplomatic side that could give us hope. What ever happened to the idea of a regional conference with Iraq's neighbors? There was some mention of it a few months ago, and since then what?
What has happened to this country is simply this: The two parties have rigged the entire election process so as to assure themselves of permanent power. Having convinced themselves and us that there is no other choice, they have reverted to pure partisanship in a struggle for power. The idea of leadership and solving the nation's complex issues has fallen to the wayside as a result.
We are the ones to blame and it is time we reclaimed the authority given to us by the founding fathers, restoring the Constitution and the rule of law in the nation. This cannot happen and will not happen if we elect another Democrat OR Republican in 2008. We need someone not of either party to break this cycle of power hungry partisanship.
I am a candidate for President and my goal is to restore leadership that is visionary and not ideological to Washington. I hope you will visit my website - joeolivaforpresident.org - You will find that there can be a change and that there is an alternative. Check it out, you will not be disappointed. Thanks, Joe

Dems in the White House
A very real possibility, considering the fact that the voters put them back in power in Congress in the last election. I am not impressed with the intelligence of the average voter.

Hm...I wonder what Hitlery would look like in a hijab or burqua. It could only be an improvement (evil grin).

I join with all others who have called for Dingy Harry to resign--though nothing will be done about him or about any of the other traitors, from the New York Slimes on down. I cannot imagine why the Bush Administration has done nothing about such open treason.

As for President Pelosi (at least in her own mind), jail or hanging would be too good for her.

Bush has already trashed the country
I never thought I would see the day when honor and acceptance of responsibility would be alien concepts to conservatives. Just read what you folks have written above. Sad day.

Good post, Makoshark
Democrats don't believe in fighting a war to win, for the same reason they have brainwashed our children not to resist evil. I am flabbergasted that we spent a week in national mourning for a classroom of young adults who meekly lined up to be murdered, instead of emulating the heroes of Flight 93.

They also suffer under the delusion that when the Islamofascists win, they will be spared to resume power.

Has anyone listened to Patreus?
As he has stated over and over again, this conflict will not be settled militarily. The reason you don't hear of a magic bullet from either side of the aisle is that there is none. At best, the proposed troop levels will be enough to react to events on the ground while the sectarianism plays itself out.

I am personally against a timed withdrawl, but unless we commit large numbers of troops to the pacification effort, we are in for years of slowly marching to a mediocre outcome.

Mike
You wrote: "Pathetic
It is quite pathetic to see so many people still support Bush's mistake in Iraq. The only reason we are still there is Bush's refusal to admit he was wrong. "

Really Mike? Is that the only reason we are still there? Did you ever consider the fate of 25 million Iraqis when you make statements like that? Did you ever think of what will happen to the ME if we up and left tomorrow? Do you think that will be the end of our involvement with terrorists if we leave?

I will admit we haven't done well there but the reasons for going were above and beyond Bush lied and for oil - it was to reshape the ME. What do you think the chances of that happening and us escaped unscathed in the future are if we cut and run?

Pentagon
One of the reasons our militarys sick and wounded are treated badly is that most people in the pentagon are liberal bureaucrats that have never been in combat.The rest of them are always practicing CYA politics just like the congressman who have constantly voted down monies for vets hospitals,and decent pay for the military.There should be a law that says every time there is a congressional pay raise the military would get the same.

Bobbit
You make some excellent points and have some valuable things to say. One bit of constructive criticism, though, if you will allow it. The name-calling detracts from your ideas.

I understand how people can be offended by Reid's comment, which was not well-chosen. Maybe it's a matter of semantics. I personally believe we won the Iraq war but are losing the peace, perhaps irretrievably. Bush himself conceded after the election that we are not winning. Reid says the war is lost. The Iraq Study Group said the situation is "bad and deteriorating." No matter how you look at it, it's not good.

My problem is that I see no progress from the Bush administration to reach political solutions, which is the aim of our "surge" strategy. He has refused to pressure the al-Mailki government and refused to bring Iran and Syria to the table. The Democratic effort to pressure the Iraqi government through artifial deadlines is clumsy but it's the only plan on the table that I see. In the absence of a plan from Bush, the Democrats have limited options besides cutting off funding for the war, which is a political non-starter. Perhaps if Bush was providing leadership on this issue, the Democrats would not be flailing around like they are.

Ken in TN
Don't hold your breath waiting to see Bush lead.
Bush is simply a woosi RINO who thinks Democrats will like him if he appeases them enough.

He can't understand that Democrats are obsessed with hating him and showing them weakness is like chumming for sharks to swim with.


DEMOCRATS ELECTED BUSH!
This is how!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID-41106
Please stop whimpering about Bush.

Ken
Many good points in your post. Most would agree that the prosecution of the war has not gone well. I don't think you'll find many conservatives who would disagree with that. Many of things you outline were done poorly and/or incorrectly as they have been done in every war before this one. Mistakes at Normandy on D-Day cost the lives of hundreds if not thousands of additional Allied troops so it is the nature of war. The problem is that if we had gone in their with the numbers of troops we should have Dims would have screamed about that. Then they screamed we didnt have enough and now that we are surging they are screaming about that. They would have screamed if we had used our awesome power and simply flattened a few cities. The US tried to fight a politically correct war to minimize civilian casualties and damage to infrastructure to avoid the whining. Rather than simply annihilating the Iraqi army they tried to let it dissolve and be rehabilitated to fight for country because of the expected whining. And now rather than firing some cruise missiles into Iran and Syria everytime they stick their noses into Iraq in order to deter them from killing Americans the military is hamstrung again by the constant whining of the left. Lord only knows if we are ever going to do anything to stop Iran from getting nukes. You can't negotiate with these people no matter what Demoncats say. To negotiate you have to have something the other side wants. He11 the Dims won't even admit there's another side! Dimocr@ps always talk a good fight until the fighting actually begins and then they want no one to get hurt and they want it over immediately. Dims are like the little kids in the back seat whining and constantly asking if we are there yet? We should have went in with overwhelming force and pancaked whatever we had to (including mosques)to show we were not to be fooled with ever again. But when you consider the human shields, the distortion of Abu Graib and Guantanamo, the games played with appropriations, the whingin about forces being spread too thin after decades of degrading our military capabilities, it is apparent the Dims are going to ensure not only our loss in Iraq but our humilation to be followed shortly thereafter with our cities being nuked. We might be able to have constructive debate in this country if the average Democrat citizen would just admit that basically their leaders suck too rather than allow them to go on making us all look bad. It'll never happen. They'd rather throw mud at Bush. Unfortunately that mud is splattering elsewhere as well.

Bobbitt
Thank you so much for addressing the issue of the Iraqi people. As my post show, I am highly critical of the admin's conduct of the war, but we are there, and we have a moral obligation to stay until the security situation is at least tolerable, whatever that may be.

The Democrats
There is only one reason for the pontifications of the Democrats -- their abiding hatred for President Bush. Jefferson said that the people get the kind of government they deserve. We are now seeing the result of putting the Democrats in power. Reid, Pelosi, Durbin, Murtha, Schumer, Kennedy and others of their ilk never see a camera they don't love. And we have allowed Jackson and Sharpton to spew their venom -- thanks to the liberal media. Check the definition of treason -- then compare the actions of some of the Democrats as to giving aid and comfort to the enemy. God help us all.

So lemme see
The whole thing was a blunder. There is no way to win. Our troops can barely defend themselves much less achieve victory. Every death is a complete waste that absolutely no good can come of. The only hope is to withdraw as soon as possible.

And this is called Supporting Our Troops? What exactly would a person have to say or insinuate before it was called demoralizing our troops?

Ken
I'll tell you what: I will refrain from calling Dems names (I just think its funny trying to come up with new nicknames for them) when they stop saying Bush is a liar, Bush is Hitler, Bush is a terrorist, we are warmongers, neo-cons, etc. You know I found Klinton to be an embarassment to this country but I personally accorded him the respect his office demands. I can't say the same for the Left and any Republican President.

Again I find your arguments to be honest and intelligent - something far different then the typical democrat poster on this site. So I am not used to that and I will tone down my rhetoric. To respond to your last post I would ask you as I have asked other posters many times before:

Democrats always want to talk with the other side. They go on and on about the need to "bring Iran and Syria to the table", talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah ad nauseum. Much like the Japanese in WWII the Iranians (and their cohorts)would rather die than negotiate with us. The Iranians have said on numerous occassions that we are the Great Satan and they want to kill us all and nothing we can do will ever stop them. This is where the liberal denial of reality comes in and drives me nuts. That being said, my question would be to you:

How do you bring people that have said they want you dead to the very table they say they won't come to?

Second: if they won't come to the table and they still call for your death are you ever going to concede that we must strike first and do so decisively in order to protect ourselves?

My personal belief is that Democrats will never decide to strike first and will just sit back waiting to get hit. That was all well and good decades ago but now that being hit first can and likely will involve nuclear and/or biological weapons, with the potential for the death of hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans. Is that a chance we can afford to take? Bush thought not and I do too. After all we already got whacked on 9/11.

Dems seem to be so embarassed at the power of the U.S. that they would rather bend over and grab their ankles while taking any and all abuse heaped upon us by others of lesser might. What is with that? Is there ever a time where they understand that the time for talk is over and the only deterrence is the placing of fear in the hearts of those who oppose us? I believe that in this case dealing with these Islamic terrorists the only way to "win the hearts and minds" of these people is to kick the cr@p out of them no matter how distasteful that is to some people. Dems just refuse to see that sometimes you just have to fight and then people get hurt. My God even children know that you don't kick the big dog 'cause you might get bit. It's time to teach the Islamofacists that whether we like it or not.

Treason?
I know it is not PC to accuse the Democrats of treason, but, short of sending troops to fight against the US in Iraq, I don't see how they could provide more aid and comfort to our enemies.


The cynical side
The cynical side of me says give Reid and company what they want and watch the collective s$#t hit the fan. If the Dems are going to insure defeat and pull the plug, better sooner than later. Who knows, the ensuing chaos and destruction may even partially be credited to the Dimwits (not likely but one could hope). Then the logical side calls me back and says, then what? With Iraq a failure and no collective stomach to do anything about the radical islamic movement, the cancer will spread more rapidly. Knowing the goal of this movement, I realize another conflict will be inevitable and will come when the enemy is far stronger than today. It will be a heavy price to pay for the satisfaction of saying "told you so". Sometimes I envy the left, with no logical thought process to keep the cynic in check. It must be nice to be completely oblivious to the consequences of your actions. It has often been said that ignorance is bliss.

Madrid falls to insurgents.......
After Baghdad falls, which country in Europe is next? Which will fall to terrorists disguised as insurgents? Paris, Madrid, Berlin, London, or Rome?

union dude
You are not telling the truth. The real reason that our military are not treated well is this failed administration. Dr. David Chu leads the DOD effort and has led the conservative effort to strip support and benefits from the troops since at least Bush one. He is a neo con and came on board with Cheney et. al.

andrews _Call it the way you see it!
There will be many young Muslims with ridical thoughts who will be persuaded to join the Victorious Insurgeants and be part of the winning team.
Reid is a great Recruiter for Radical Islam.
When one of those recruits kills an American soldier it will be Reid who is just as responsible as if he pulled the trigger himself.

Words have consequence.
With irresponsible Democrats in power their words can do great harm to America.

Hal
This whole "strip support" thing, would that be anything like threatening to cut off funding while the troops are in harms way?

Just wondering.

andrews
No, treason would be more like printing the details of secret surveillance programs in major national newspapers. Fortunately editors have more ethics than to do a thing like that.

Hal
Let's get real if you want to discuss things honestly. For forty years the Democrat controlled Congress did everything in its power to reduce military spending, shrink its size, and inhibit our ability to make war. They were very good at it. You can spew all you want about the military budget and how much we spend but we are the most powerful nation on Earth, the most envied, and unfortunately the most hated with a big target on out back. The lefties in this country expect us to be the world's rescuers and policemen, and they want everything we do to be perfect - including fighting the wars themselves with no casualites and the perfectly dealing with the injuries resulting from a war. When do the lefties in this country stop trying to have it all ways? The budget, no matter its size, can only go so far and that is true whether their hated GWB is in office or another POTUS. If you want this problem to go away tell your elected officials to stop cutting defense spending, stop attaching earmarks to appropriations bills and start working to pour in as much money as needed to make everything perfect. But of course they'd have to raise taxes to do so because they'll never reduce entitlements since it would alienate their constituencies.

bobbit
How do you bring people that have said they want you dead to the very table they say they won't come to?

Do you recall the Soviet Union? Do you recall their leader saying he would bury us? Do you know this was the early 1960's? War is supposed to be the last resort because it is completely unpredictible. What Bush has done by chosing war in Iraq is tarnish our reputation, strip us of allies and wear down our military. If we were still perceived as invincible, I doubt Iran would be pushing forward with nukes or North Korea embarrassing us into paying them off.

Bobbit
Neocons and conservatives are two very different animals.

Traditionally, conservatives believed in the limited Constitutional federal government laid out by our Founders, with the remaining powers (which was MOST of the power) left to the states and the people.

However, neoconservatives appear to believe in the opposite. They endorse a strong, all-powerful federal government to force their agenda. By definition, they are on the left side of the spectrum, along with the big government, Rockefeller Republicans.

Neoconservatives and Rockefeller Republicans only differ from liberals in what they want their all powerful, unconstitutional, federal government to do.

leroy
The Republican-controlled Senate took longer to pass emergency spending bills. As of April 19, the Congress had taken 73 days on the supplemental spending bill. Last year, it took the Republican-led Congress 119 days to send the Fiscal Year 2006 supplemental bill to the President. (CQ Today, 4/11/07)

Hal
Maybe, just maybe, it is in the interest of the financial people at the VA to try to cut costs, just like everywhere else. So, they try to minimize outlays. If they go too far, we get outrage and articles and the pendulum swings the other way.

Maybe it has been working this way since the VA came into existence? Maybe you just discovered that people entrusted with money try to cut costs? Or maybe you just want to make a point of it because you think you can use it to bash Bush?

Do you really think the VA during Clinton said "Well, just pay as much as it takes! No economization on my watch!" Then again, if you believe that, you are a moron.

Hal Part 2
Do you really suggest that Iran thinks we are not invincible? Do you mean they think they could take us?

Are you drunk? Or just sniffing glue?

Hal
Nice theory. Too bad North Korea played the same cards in 1994 with obvious results. Apparently we weren't perceived as "invincible" then either. Another theory bites the dust!!

Libs and DEMs
You are the party of defeat.
Be honest, we all know you want our troops out, I also want them out. I want them to finish the mission before leaving. Don't put BS time tables on your bill. We all know you want our troops to fail. You and your leaders don't have an ounce of common sense or you are so blinded by your hate for GWB, you don't see the big picture. I'm starting to beleive you all willing to become muslims. What does the Koran say about muslims and infidels??? "Either you are a muslim or an Infidel, convert or die"!!!!! Get your head out of your AZZZ, Your sphincter muscle is sufficating you, the lack of air to you brain is obvious.
OBL - said "America doesn't have the will to fight." Pulling out of Iraq will prove him right.His recruitment number will increase 100 times what they are today.
IRAQ, is a Battlegound on the war on terror.

Andrews
What is someone guilty of when they encourage our country to be overrun by illegal aliens, while forcing states to give them free handouts?

What do you call someone who has used the fast-track authority that Congress gave him to shuttle through non-free trade agreement, after non-free trade agreement, which has resulted in enormous trade imbalances and the relocation of our major industry to China and India, along with one heck of a lot of good paying jobs? Also, an added bennie (sic) to these trade agreements is the fact that our Congress is now trumped by the WTO in trade affairs. Just wonderful.

What do you call someone who sits idly by while one of his own U.S. Attorneys orchestrates the prosecution of 2 of our border patrol for doing their job in stopping illegal immigration?

What do you call someone who makes side deals with Canada and Mexico to merge our country with theirs into a North American Union?

What do you call someone that unconstitutionally surveils its own citizens and lies about it?

What do you call someone who uses our military to carry out UN dictates and nation-building?

I tell you one thing for sure, Andrews, you sure don't call it... PATRIOT!

Bobbit
The budget, no matter its size, can only go so far and for 6 years now the military has been short changed by war on the cheap and stripped services like medical care. Care of the wonded and veterans are THE cost of war. What this administration has done is not pay the bill and try to hide it was even coming due. Thank you Washington Post from exposing reality.

andrews
Clinton actually did cut costs BUT he modernized and streamlined VA and this was recognised as massive improvement by left and right. If this administration was near as competant they would not be treating our wounded and vets so poorly.

I do think that Iran thinks we are too distracted and our military to worn to attack them in any lasting way.

apoplectic
Nice theory. Too bad North Korea played the same cards in 1994 with obvious results. Apparently we weren't perceived as "invincible" then either. Another theory bites the dust!!

Not so fast .... the Koreans pushed the new president and started to do this even before they knew who would win. Every new administration is pushed in someway to see how they will react. Bush failed and North Korea went from a handful of nukes to over 12 at last count

Who cares what letter they have..
Will you people please wake up. It doesn't matter what friggin' party someone belongs to, it only matters what their principles are and how they VOTE!

Bush is not a conservative. You have to know that, right? The only conservative thing I can think of that he has possibly done, is not pushed gun control. What else?

These are the traditional conservative principles. Remember? How do you think Bush fares on these?

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

He got us back into UNESCO, that President Reagan wisely got us out of. You know, right, that is where his "No Child Left Behind" little indoctrination program came from. He has dramatically expanded the size and scope of federal government and further stomped all over states' rights. He and Congress have spent like drunken sailors bringing our country VERY close to bankruptcy. That is, if we're not already there. He has advocated the creation of a police state for Americans, while leaving our border friggin' wide open. He has flat out REFUSED to abide by his oath of office and defend our borders.

Un-friggin-believable!!! Bush is a socialist pig. If you still back him or anyone else like him, such as Klinton, you have no business calling yourself a conservative!

Reid Treason, DeLay Link
Someone doesn't have to hold a gun to be an "enemy combatant," Senator Reid. He might benefit from a period of reflection at Guantanomo. Don't you agree?

To get to the Tom DeLay VIDEO of him describing Reid and Pelosi as being "very, very close to treason, go to my site (click on name) and follow the instructions at the top of the page.

steve

The Dems
Can't people see that the democrats are all clicking their heels together, and saluting George Soros.. He is their true leader Run Fred Run....

Steve
Read the DeLay story...So true, so true.

Democrats obsessed with TREASON!
Democrates put bush in office by running a traitor as their candidate and they have not stopped whimpering and complaining about it since!
This is what elected Bush!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID-41106

Liberty
Sorry mate but Bush et. al have stolen the title conservative. Not exactly sure how you let them do it but do it they did

nanna and MyOpine forget your meds today
you are drooling I suspect

Republican Treason in Syria?
Republican Rep. David Hobson (OH) was also on the trip to Syria. But in an interview published in the Washington Post today, he states that he never received any of the attacks that were thrown at Pelosi:

“Before we left, we met with the State Department people and nobody told us not to go,” Hobson said, adding that none of his Republican colleagues broached the subject, either. “Nobody ever called me to say, ‘Why are you going to Syria with those people?’“

So please start telling me that David Hobson should be convicted of treason?

Hal
The challenge of nuclear weapons is building the first one. Once that technology is achieved, it's simply a matter of ramping up production. To imply that Bush could have somehow limited that production after they had already achieved the technological ability is not only naive, but ludicrous!!!

Hal Donahue
You wrote: " bobbit How do you bring people that have said they want you dead to the very table they say they won't come to? Do you recall the Soviet Union? Do you recall their leader saying he would bury us? Do you know this was the early 1960's?"

Of course I do I was alive then. I don't read the revised history books Hal, I know how that all went down. If you recall the Democrats wanted to teach school children how to duck under their desks in case of nuclear attack rather than fight back. The reason Reagan won the Cold War was because of the threat we posed the Soviets by outspending them and developing a greater military capability then they could ever hope to have. They knew in the eventoof war they would lose. This was not accomplished at the table hal. This was accomplished by walking away from the table.

"War is supposed to be the last resort because it is completely unpredictible."

Agreed. If only libs would understand that when debating the war in Iraq.

"What Bush has done by chosing war in Iraq is tarnish our reputation, strip us of allies and wear down our military."

Your reputation doesn't matter if you're dead Hal. Bush chose war in Iraq because we needed to do something to remake the ME because it contained a festering terrorism looking to take down the decadent West. Iraq seemed to be the best choice because we thought Saddam to be the most dangferous and he was in violation of numerous UN resolutions and his post-Gulf War treaties. There is no debate from me that that hasn't worked out as planned but despite liberal squawking there was a plan.

As far as stripping us of our allies you show your niavete and your willful disregard of the evidence. Most likely you are referring to France, Germany, Russia, etc. They are no longer true allies. Evidence shows they were never going to fight with us because of their relationships in the ME and their receiving payments/bribes through "Oil for Food". Bush did nothing to cause that nor could he or anyone else have done anything to change that. We have over 30 other countries that went with us and even though they aren't good enough allies for the left at least they believed in backing up the resolutions they agreed upon - unlike your "allies".

The wearing down of the military is a normal occurence of war I would think. If that is a concern to you tell your leaders to quit stalling and adding pork and timetables to the appropriations bills and get more money to the military. However as most libs you likely only say that to make GWB look bad - the left really doesn't want our military to win or be strong anyway because our "alies" may not like us because we can kick their azzez.

"If we were still perceived as invincible, I doubt Iran would be pushing forward with nukes or North Korea embarrassing us into paying them off."

Do you think they no longer consider us invincible because of Bush? He has added to that perception by not smashing everything in his sight in the ME but that started long ago when Dems pulled support in Viet Nam leaving our allies to die, when Karter did nothing to free the Iranian hostages, and when Klinton took blow after blow from the terrorists ans either ran like a scared rabbit or failed to respond.

And do also think Iran started developing nukes the day GWB came into office. Again very niave. As fars as NorKo it was Klinton and Halfbright that gave him nuclear reactors and fuel initially that started all of that. The fact that we just did it again is Bush's fault and equally as stupid.

Please do not revise history as it suits you to make your points.

Hal
This is not an issue over who can write the checks faster. They threatened to stop funding the troops while the troops were still being shot at. Do you think this type of behavior does not go unnoticed by either side?

Hal Donahue
I usually avoid arrogant COMMUNIST LIARS like you but since you insist, I must call you on that lie about paying off N. Korea.

The actual money involved belonged to N. Korea and you know that verry well. America simply released legal holds on the money.
The way you spin that as a bribe makes you a kind of 1/2@ssed liar.

Now as to you being a BELLICOSE BUFFOON;
I am sure we are about to cover that subject.

Support the Troops etc
First of all Bush is the first President to take the war to the bad guys. The Klintonistas turned the war on terror into a law enforcement problem.

Eight times Billy The Pants had an opportunity to kill OBL and he balked.

Bush was privy to the same intelligence that the previous administration had. 99% of all his Dem buddies in Congress said the same thing about Iraq that Bush was saying prior to the War.

It is all about loosing in 2000 and winning in 2008. Support the troops? My eye!!!!

How many people put their walk where their talk is? Anybody sent a care package to a soldier lately? Sponsored any large-scale efforts to send out care packages to a group of soldiers or Marines lately? I doubt it.

Talk is cheap. You can say you support the troops till the cows come home, but until you actually put some action where your mouth is...you're just talking sh_t.

As to the surge not working or the war being lost. Here's a quote from a Marine Platoon Ldr in Iraq:

"We are reaching a tipping point in this fight. We have finally learned this culture. We have finally begun to commit the necessary forces. We have truly learned to fight a counter-nsurgency. Very real gains are being made despite claims from our Congress that we have already lost. A counter-insurgency battleis not one of quickly attained and easily recognizeable benchmarks. It is not won in a year or four. It takes time, resolve, and a willingness to use what wehave learned from past mistakes and expectations. From firsthand experience I can tell you, his “Surge” is working. We need to continue to support these people and give them a fighting chance at creating a nation on their own terms."

I'd rather get my information on the war from the people that are on the front lines. Not from Gen Pelosi or Col Harry Reid.

You want to hear what one Marine and a million other people think about droids like Harry Reid Then read this patriots:

http://patdollard.com/

Suffice it to say, there are too few sheepdogs in the herd. And there's way too many sheep.

Good article Mr Limbaugh.







dogjudge
Treason is a word I believe we are all guilty of throwing around too lightly. To my way of thinking it is not so much where we go but rather what we do once we are there that brings our conduct into question.

bobbit
You are revising history now. I was in a senate hearing when Brezinski was almost laughed out of the room for saying that the USSR was crumbling and dying. This was under Carter (the worst president ever until this one). Brezinski was wrong he thought it might take ten years. The Soviet Union was defeated by an alliance of allies working together led by the US for a period of nearly 50 years. That covers Dems and R's and was back in the day of cooperation.

Hmmm as far as allies in the middle east, I recall the French military barracks being blown up the same day as our marine barracks in Beiruit. I seem to recall people in British and Italian uniforms running around. Oh and why don't I hear anything about Reagan turning tail and abandoning Lebanon? By the way I think he did the right thing. Brains are required with brawn, something lacking in this administration

Hal, Liberty, et al
Let me clear up a common misconception. Conservatives do not all approve of Bush and we do not march in lockstep behind him. Most of us agree he has been anything but a conservative and in fact our disgust with him and his administration led to your side winning in November. However we do defend the need to fight the War on Terror though many of you would prefer to hide your heads in the sand and act as if a) there is no threat or b) we can just cut and run and they will never bother us again. I will stipulate all of the things you say about the border etc (though I disagree on your position with the Patriot Act). Bush has been a disaster in many respects and I regret my vote for him ( though I'd have voted for anyone but the spineless, French, traitorous Kerry) but the left's constant desire to pin everything that does or doesn't happen in this country and the world at large on him is asinine. when you on the left start to actually love your country again and root for its continued prosperity and success rather than rooting for its failure and blaming everything that happens on it in order to make GWB look bad then maybe the civil debate in this country can begin again. Until then you and your party are a danger to me and my family as you are against everything we love and believe in. If you win the white House in 2008 we are all DEAD! And I am not a crazy right wing evangelical so don;t even go there. I know my history and I can see that which is right in front of my face. You can't.

Treason
No, we aren't using the term lightly at all dogjudge. We know what it means. Here's the law as defined under US Code:

Us Code Title 18

§ 2381. Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


leroy
Simply not true. Bush is the one not funding the troops. Congress has said yes and added I guess what you guys called pork: 1.8 billion for veterans health care. 3.3 billion for defense health an increase of 2.2 billion over the presidents request. And 750 million over the Presidents original request for Afghanistan. Oh wait also upgraded armored vehicles for the marines. Congress did its job.

Leroy
Stopping the funding.

I think you need to look into the issue a bit further.

At NO point is it the intention of the Democrats to leave the troops in Iraq without ammunition, food, etc. The only way that could possibly happen is IF President Bush refused to remove the troops from Iraq IF the funding was cut. ie. Congress would cut off funding, but it wouldn't happen for 6 months. President Bush would then have the 6 months to remove the troops from the area.

Same thing as setting a deadline.

IF the funding cut was successful, and IF the President refused to remove the troops, I would guess that impeachment proceedings would start rather quickly.

Bobbit
Good question. Not one with a short, easy answer but I'll give it a shot.

Iran is a very complex society with a lot of centers of power. The real power is held by the ruling clerics. The blowhard Ahmedinijad is increasingly unpopular in his own country and uses his over-the-top rhetoric to cling to power through appeals to Iranian nationalism. There is another power source in the Revolutionary Guard and no one is really sure how independent they are.

And then there are the Iranian people, one of the world's youngest populations by demographics. They are comparatively well educated by regional standards, insistent on more freedoms and frequently clash with their own government, particularly Iranian students. They also want a better way of life and that’s where the problem lies.

U.S. and international sanctions on Iran, coupled with their own misguided economic policies, are killing them. They are sitting on one of the largest reservoirs of oil in the world yet they have to import gasoline. To keep the people in line, the government also subsidizes most necessities, like food, gasoline and many consumer goods. The result is a flow of red ink that would make Congress envious. On top of that, we have cut off their access to most international credit markets. Their economy is headed for collapse. A good backgrounder by the nonpartisan Council on Foreign Relations is here: http://www.cfr.org/publication/12478/

Because of this, the State Department says Iranian diplomats have been “pinging” the U.S. around the world for the better part of two years, trying to find a way to initiate talks without losing face. A great example is this “trial balloon” floated through respected Mideast journalist Christianne Amanpour on CNN just two months ago: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/21/btsc.iran.amanpour/index.html

Certainly the Iranian efforts have been clumsy, unsophisticated and often counterproductive toward getting talks started. Some even speculate the kidnapping of the British troops was a desperate effort to get the West to engage. But we have to understand they trust us as much as we trust them. And their foolish pride, like ours, has prevented either side from dropping the preconditions to discussions that could be mutually beneficial.

What is it they want and need? First, an end to the sanctions. Second, help in modernizing their economy, especially its oil infrastructure. That’s just for starters.

And what do we want from them? How about an end to their nuclear weapons program? An end to their interference in Iraq and other neighboring states? Access to their oil?

The list for both sides could go on and on. The point is that of such wants and needs, diplomatic agreements are made. Someone just has to be strong and confident enough to get the process started. There is no guarantee that diplomatic initiatives will be successful, but failing to start them guarantees that there will be failure and, possibly, an unnecessary war.

Former NATO commander Gen. Wesley Clark has some very clear thinking in his piece in the latest Washington Monthly on how we can defuse the potential conflict with Iran and help ourselves in Iraq at the same time: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0704.clark.html. While I don’t agree with everything he recommends, he has some valuable insights.

I just wish I was hearing these kind of ideas out of our president or his administration, or any ideas for that matter. If he has a plan for a diplomatic initiative that will give our troops a chance of succeeding, it’s the best-kept secret in Washington.

patriot11c
Please spare me the nonsense.

If you really believe this, then Hobson should be charged. Right? He was on the trip.




patriot11C
Care package my but. Why don't you really support them by lobbying for proper medical care and support so they won't need care packages. As to the troops I will ask two questions. In or outside the wire? outside 50% say enough. And first or later tour. Later again about at 50& say go home. My personal poll because I do stay in touch and do send my own care packages. You know in my experience anyone who has to call themselves a patriot probably isn't.

Please don't act surprised!
The Democrats were supposed to act like Democrats

The real problem is a President who refused to fire political appointees from the Clinton administration, gave the CIA director a medal after 9/11, supported Specter when he needed to make an example out of him, nominated his attorney to the supreme court instead of an ambassadorship to Turk and Caicos, didn't kill Al'Sadr, and would not discipline his party to stand firm behind him.

We can whine till next century about those horrid Democrats but most Republican wounds are mostly self-inflicted.

Talked like Texas acted like Connecticut

Lebanon Mission
It was the Democratic Congress that forced the withdrawl from Lebanon by threatening to withhold funding for the mission. Reagan was forced to withdraw.

Here's some background:

Navy A-6 pilot, Lt. Mark Lange was killed after ejecting, while the B/N, Lt. Robert Goodman, was released January 3, 1984, after negotiations with Reverend Jesse Jackson. At the same time, U.S. President Ronald Reagan was pressured for a troop withdrawal from Lebanon by Congress. These calls were increased after the Lebanese PM and his cabinet resigned February 5. Shiite and Druze militiamen began fighting outside Beirut on February 6 and threw the capital into chaos. Reagan ordered the 1,700 Marines to begin withdrawing on February 7.


Cheney Has Suffered Enough!
I think there's nothing wrong with giving Iraq's oil to Dick Cheney. After all, wouldn't we all agree that the poor man has suffered enough?

Seriously, it is true that when the fresham Democrats came to Washington, the leadership had them chant the following: "The War is OUR FRIEND." Then, they all went out and began their re-election campaigns.

Anyway, my daily joke section (click on name above) is growing in popularity. Yesterday, it had somewhere between 165 and 165,000 visitors, I forget exactly which. If you come to visit, I promise I'll get you Steve Capus' job AND send you a year's supply of Milky Ways. Here are a few samples from the SIX jokes for tomorrow, which are not as good as today's:

Senator Barack Hussein Obama has reportedly sought to defuse the controversy over his middle name by changing it to "Hillary." He noted he’s always been a fan of the famous British mountain-climber.

New polling data is giving Senator Thompson concern over whether the country is really ready for a President named "Fred." He explained that his mother was a big fan of "The Flintstones."


patriot11C
You are wrong about the number of people here who contribute.
Links used to be posted often but once you contribute they send you letters for other contributions and there is no need to post links anymore.

Some of the old links might still be in Blogs someplace.
And I thank all who serve for my restful nights sleep.

Ken in Tennessee
WOW I am impressed well done. That is the kind of discourse we should be having here.

Ken in TN
One problem, just because they want to negotiate does not mean that we should negotiate with them.

Think about it. If the west had given Hitler the Danzig corridor he wanted, we could ahve avoided WWII, or postponed it. So, would you say we should ahev negotiated with Hitler?

Same with Iran. The mullahs or the president, doesn't matter. Both have engaged in acts of war against the US (1979? remember? a thing with the embassy? ) and they now support our enemies, and put combatants into Iraq to attack us. They are not a government we should prop up.

And that is what negotiations would be. By ending sanctions or giving any other support, we would be extending the lifespan of these lunatics in Iran. Better to let them die a slow death, or, if they persist in builidng bombs, to attack and let them die a faster one.

Negotiating with those who want your death is suicide. Sometimes, much as you dislike the fact, fighting is the only option.

Or do you think Chamberlain was right, and the only failure was that we didn't give Danzig as well?

dogjudge
Hobson said,“Before we left, we met with the State Department people and nobody told us not to go,” If he went there and also claimed he was a representative of US policy, the same thing as Pilosi, WITHOUT PERMISSION, he also should be charged with treason.
Pilosi was asked by State Dept not to go.. She was claiming to represent US policy and a message from Isreal.
A little difference.

Hal
Give me a break. First, that Congress you talked about was majority Democrat when they laughed at him.
Second: At the rate that Karter was doing nothing it could have been far longer than ten years. Even if what you said is true Karter would have nothing to do with their collapse, Reagan accelerated the process and the Dems had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the build up that caused their demise. Your beloved Dems almost collectively fainted when Reagan called the USSR the "Evil Empire" for God's sake.
Third: I see the "alliance of allies" you cite was sufficient for you then but the alliance Bush has now is not. The main act of this alliance you cite was to allow Reagan to place Pershing missiles in their countries pointed at the USSR. Weren't they wonderful?!
Fourth: the fact that the French were blown up as well in Beirut and now refuse to fight only serves to prove my point that they should no longer be considered an ally since money and oil is more important to them then avenging the death of their people and standing by the country that saved their bacon a couple of times.
Fifth: You're correct. Reagan should have kicked azz instead of running.
Sixth: true statement about brains and brawn. Again I do not dispute that GWB has handled the Warin Iraq badly. However that does not mean fighting is the wrong thing to do. It is time for you to recognize the time for talk is past. We've done that for decades and these people lie to us and/or want us dead. I say them first.

patriot11C
and your point is? I thought you were talking about allies and middle east?

Hal Donahue
You sound more like Phil Donahue. The state of military health care for wounded vets is a damned sight better than it was during the hey-day of the Vietnam War.

That was back in the days when my mom and I were sending home made goods to the forgotten wounded at Walter Reed.

We use to invite those that could, to our house to eat Sunday dinner with us and thank them for their service. This was back in the late 60's and early 70's when chumps like you would be spitting on these fine young people.

After spending half of my life serving the military and spending the last 10 years in Defense Industry, I've taken to putting my support where my mouth is by supporting such orginaizations as Treats For troops.

Unlike you a-hole, I put my life on the line for my country and fellow soldiers. Now I support them with my rhetoric and my deeds.

You are a pathethic droid. Stop using the word patriot. You have no idea what it means.

PS Do you sit down to pee? Or are you just another useless cow in a barn full of bulls?





sloo
Please go to today's Washington Post.

Hobson says that the trip WAS approved for him, Pelosi and others.

Appears that someone has a credibility problem.

bobbit
First, Bush has no real alliance when the Brits leave. Second, Pershing missiles in their counries was their major achievement. Oh really and what did that mean? They become enhanced nuclear targets and besides the missiles were useless if not there. While hating the French are you forgeting we would still be part of the British empire without them? The French can be difficult but this time they were right we were wrong. I never said fighting is wrong but fighting when and where you do not have to is incredibly stupid and destructive.

Hal
I don't get to sit in on too many senate hearings myself so maybe my opinion on this may not carry much weight with you. I did disagree when Reagan pulled out after the barracks bombing. Personally I think Reagan did also but left on the advise of others. The United States lost a lot of face by running out of Lebanon, something that is not overlooked by people in that part of the world.

Andrews
This is what happens when you come in at the end of a long conversation. LOL

Bobbit and I have been discussing my 10:26 a.m. post and my point that we have to initiate a diplomatic surge if we want the military surge to succeed. That is, after all, the point of the military surge, to buy time for political and diplomatic solutions. Otherwise, we are going to make Harry Reid look like a sage instead of a fool.

His proper question was, "What is the point of initiating talks with the likes of Iran?" I was simply pointing out that they have things we want and need, as we have things they want and need. I strongly recommend Gen. Clark's piece (linked above) for some good insights.

Certainly there comes a point where political efforts have failed and we must pursue war, which is politics by other means. I'm not convinced we have reached that point with Iran. In fact, we haven't given it much of a chance.

dogjudge
On stopping the funding. It may not be the Democrats intention of leaving the troops penniless, but by trying to strong arm Bush with the threats of funding that is exactly the way it comes across.

Ken
You wrote: "I just wish I was hearing these kind of ideas out of our president or his administration, or any ideas for that matter. If he has a plan for a diplomatic initiative that will give our troops a chance of succeeding, it’s the best-kept secret in Washington."

Again I agree. The plan is to try to defend the Iraqi government nutil it is on its feet sufficiently to defend itself and its country. That is the physical reality. However the diplomatic reality is it sounds like we are alerady doing everything we can in that regard. Unfortunately when it comes to diplomacy everything is just so much hooey as long as these guys continue on their way to building nukes and claiming that they will use it on us. I hope that everything you say is true but based on the accuracy of our previous intelligence who can be sure? I don't trust the State Dept. to ever want to do anything but talk, talk, talk, (since that is their function), and when combined with the fact that they seem to take joy out of undermining the administration it would not be prudent to put all of our eggs in their basket either. It would be a he11uva a gamble to lose. It is not for the United States to do anything except tell Iran that should they launch and strike the US they will suffer retaliation unlike any they could imagine. Our failure to ever do that and mean it has lead to this situation. I understand all of this speculation that the Iranian people hate the mullahs etc but as long as the threat remains (clumsy or otherwise) it is our duty to protect American lives. PERIOD. All of that other stuff would be great if it came to pass but under no circumstances should any person or country think they can attack the US with impunity and not understand they will fry if they do. As I always hear in these posts is that you seem to feel there is a moral equivalence between us and them when it is the US that has been threatened and attacked repeatedly. Despite liberal BS we do not oppress other countries nor do we ever flex our muscle on them. Even in Iraq while we deposed Saddam we have never attempted to colonize them nor steal their resources. We only did what we believed would improve the security of the United States. And we must continue to do so. We can no longer keep the military options off the table and by that I mean more than saying "the military option is on the table". These people only understand one thing and no matter how much you try to project your perception of the world onto them, it is your world you are projecting and they simply do not see it the same. If libs would admit that then we could have a reasoned debate but again they will do anything rather than fight.

patriot11C
"This was back in the late 60's and early 70's when chumps like you would be spitting on these fine young people."

Oh really? You are so off base that it is amazing. While you were home with your mother, I was over there. I spent 20 years in the military serving our nation and I am an outpatient at Walter Reed. DO NOT DARE talk to me about patriotism. As far as the name calling, I realise it is the last refuge of the weak so I overlook it.

Dogjudge
I do not care what the Post says, what did the State Dept say?

Dogjudge
The law speaks for itself. Fortunately, this is 2007 and not 1945. If it were, Pelosi et al would probably be in jail by now.


leroy
I really think Reagan did the right thing pulling out as frustrating as it was at the time. Like Iraq it was a civil war and we could only lose further

MyOpine
What are you talking about? I was refering to the link that I posted. Over a million people have read it. I'm guessing that 99% of them agreed with both the good Corporal and the young Platoon Ldr.


Hal
The day I go off my meds, is the day I'll believe a Liberal.

Hal Donahue
You sound like a bitter man. Too bad. It's people like you that I invited to my house when I went to visit my friend at Walter Reed.

And no, I won't stop talking about patriotism.
Too bad about your injury.

For what it's worth, thanks for your service to our country.

Hal
So the answer now is that we get out of their way and allow them to kill each other in peace? Because if I recall correctly that is exactly what happened in Lebanon.

Hal
You wrote: "First, Bush has no real alliance when the Brits leave. Second, Pershing missiles in their counries was their major achievement. Oh really and what did that mean? They become enhanced nuclear targets and besides the missiles were useless if not there. While hating the French are you forgeting we would still be part of the British empire without them? The French can be difficult but this time they were right we were wrong. I never said fighting is wrong but fighting when and where you do not have to is incredibly stupid and destructive."

First: nonsense. when the Brits leave it will because they no longer have the stomach to fight for what's right and eliminate these threats before they become too big to stop. But I already know you don't get that.
Second: The fact that the Pershings were there did make them targets however it also erased the mutually assured destruction stalemate because the USSR couldn't get them all unless they built more weapons and in trying to do so their economy collapsed. It went from mutually assured destruction to assured destruction - for them.
Third: As a history buff I am well aware of the French contributions to our cause. However I went back 60 years to a more recent time and you went back 230 plus - you know the time the left has forgotten all about. So let's both drop the past history and see that today the French turn out to no longer be any friend of ours. They were concealing their relationships and working against us at all times in the UN and around the world. Your failure to recognize and admit that is stunning. And your point does not prove they were right at all. I believe to play ball with these guys in the ME is to write your own death certificate eventually. I would say when it comes to Iraq history will be the judge and four or five years will not be enough time. If somehow Iraq can pull out of this and become a free country in the ME it may be the second shot heard 'round the world.

nanna
LOL then there is hope for you yet ;>)

eddred
excellent analysis and sadly may well be spot on

patriot11C
I am not at all bitter and my life is quite satisfying. But words do matter and you blasting me when you know nothing about me just indicates that your "facts" are suspect. I was happy to serve and thank you.

patriot11c
Sir, it's apparent that YOU do not understand what patriotism means.

Most of what you parrot out is nonsense.

I also served so don't even go there. I find it interesting how you feel that your testosterone is going to overcome everyone else. JFK said it best, "So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.
Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us."

If you'd like to work on solutions, let's talk.

There are a lot of people who are just as qualified as you who disagree with your viewpoint.

By what you've posted so far, you can ONLY be patriotic if you have unlimited, blind faith in the same issues as you. Nonsense.

leroy
You are sadly right. Once the dogs of war are let lose there is no turning back. We can't stay there forever and it is just a matter of time. The longer we wait to go the higher the deaath toll. Sad and our fault.

Bobbit
You make the excellent point that "...under no circumstances should any person or country think they can attack the US with impunity and not understand they will fry if they do."

I cannot understand how any American could disagree with that statement. As a self-professed moderate with conservative leanings, I've got friends on both sides of the political spectrum and I don't know a single one of them, Democrat or Republican, who would disagree. Maybe I've just got a small circle of friends.

I'm just not sure how it applies in Iraq, where we're basically refereeing a civil war at this point. And much as we'd all like to win, referees never win. If you believe we are doing everything diplomatically that we can, I have missed it. I just see us throwing good money after bad, and good American lives being wasted with no endgame in sight.

Oh, and sorry about the bad link to Clark's piece. It's here: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0704.clark.html

sloo
So if the State Department says it, then it's absolutely true? Correct?

Now let's talk about Alberto Gonzales and "I don't remember." "To the best of my recollection." ad naseum.

So you have conflicting stories and you choose the one that suits your feelings? Is that what I understand?

I'm not taking Pelosi's side alone, I've got someone from the President's party who is saying that this is the way that it happened.

I find that a little more credible than this administration's line on anything. They don't have a stellar record for the truth.

Sort of like Vice-President Cheney still telling us that there was a pre-war link between Iraq and al Qaeda.

Please don't serve on any juries.

patriot
I'm a liberal, and a Bush critic. I not only donate funds regularly to Packages from Home, I have also spent as much time making phone calls, and sending emails, to Senators and Congressmen urging them to address the issue of the Pentagon shortchanging injured troops. And this is not a result of Clinton policies, according to the Inspector General's report, the number of ground troops injured in the war approved for full benefits has DROPPED over 50% since 2001.

Bobbit
Every country round the world "plays games" including us. Why attack the French all I know is that they have watched our backs and well.
"when it comes to Iraq history will be the judge and four or five years will not be enough time. If somehow Iraq can pull out of this and become a free country in the ME it may be the second shot heard 'round the world." That would take a mircle of religious proportions with this incompetent administartion. The best we can do is regroup and get out of the way and see if the Iraqi's cabn do any better.

eddred
Actually, the reason we lost morale after Tet was because anti-war forces used it to convince the people we were losing, despite the facts to the contrary. It was not Tet itself that showed the "war was not going how they believed" but that it was spun to show that.

Blame Cronkite and Co. not Tet. We won Tet (and the rest of Vietnam), we lost at home due to liars on the left.

By the way
I am also against the withdrawl timetable, and think Reid's not mentioning the brilliant performance of the troops was an insult to those putting their lives on the line.

dogjudge
On JFK, my favorite of his quotes, and I realize this is not accurate but I'm drawing from memory, is when he said; We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

It would be easy to turn our backs and leave, once again, it is harder to commit ourselves to seeing this thing through.

Who won the war anyways?
One of our new employees returned from a recent trip to Vietnam. You know what the old NVA say? Communism sucks. Now, they all want to live in the South. They all want the same things Westerners want: a good job, MTV and Western clothing etc. They're tired of Uncle Ho's vision of a Communist utopia.

So who won the war? I think we did. The NVA won the hearts and minds in 1976. They have lost hearts and minds since that time.

And now, according to our new guy, the Vietnamese love Americans. Oh yeah, and Saigon has not changed a bit. The NVA never did conquer the South. And now every northerner wants to MOVE there!!!

Repeating the same mistakes of Vietnam? Well, I hope so, if the outcome in Iraq in 20 years is the same as it is in Vietnam today.

But, in reality it is the news media that is making the same mistakes as they did in 1968.
Funny thing, I'm not hearing the phrase that there is a light at the end of the tunnel?

Instead, I keep hearing that this is going to be a long and difficult struggle. True enough.

It is the troops on the ground that have the best insight into this war. Not the media.

I say, let the troops make the decisions, not the press. To stay or to go, should be their choice, not Chris Mathews or Lew Dobbs or any other media elitist.

I keep hearing more and more troops saying that the surge is working. Good. Give it a chance.

Personally, I think that Iraq was a "bridge too far". However, that's where the terrorists are as is also the case in Afghanistan.

Wherever the terrorists reside, is where we should be. Better there than over here. Preventing another 9-11 may ultimately prove futile. You can't stop crazy people, but we should at least try.



bryce
Not to critsize what you do because it is by far more than many on either side of this issue do. But rather than donate money to have someone else send that package, put it together yourself. There is more gratification in that, on both the sending and receiving ends.

Hal
What we call pork? HOW ABOUT

$283 million for the Milk Income Loss Contract program, $100 million for the Democratic and Republican Conventions, $74 million for peanut storage costs, $60.4 million for salmon fisheries, $50 million for asbestos mitigation at the U.S. Capitol Plant, $25 million for spinach growers, $24 million for sugar beet growers, $20 million to combat Mormon crickets, $6.4 million for the House of Representatives' salaries and expense accounts, and $3.5 million for Capitol tours.

Tell me how this "Defense Spending" helps the war effort? Are the Mormon Crickets eating all the body armor? As I said earlier, ignorance is bliss!!

Thanks leroy
good suggestion!

leroy
I about to head out so I won't see your answer until late tonight, but a question. Do you know if there's some program where one can become a 'pen pal' to a soldier?

andrews
We won TET is correct. But that was a case of we won the battle but lost the war. The mere fact that such a major coordinated attack could be conducted in areas we had declared "safe" made us a victim of our own propaganda and exposed the lie not just at home but more importantly in country. The government not the press deserve the blame. I think eddred may have hit the nail on the head.

dogjudge
Don't change the subject, PRIOR to Pelosi going, she told not to go.

bryce
I am sure there are various programs but I don't know any specifics.

apoplectic
I think you will find most of that pulled out of today's bill. The military healthcare and VA funding was still at least 25% of the "pork". The armored vehicles for the marines I think is a new add. They compromised will Bush?

DogJudge
"By what you've posted so far, you can ONLY be patriotic if you have unlimited, blind faith in the same issues as you. Nonsense."

That's your view pal, not mine. I got a different view of patriotism than you.

You're entitled to your opinion....even if it is wrong.


leroy and bryce
If you don't know anyone over there go to the local guard or reserve unit. I don't know where you are located but it seems our units always have someone over there. They do have some unique and personal requests LOL.


The Troops are on a failed mission..
lets get something straight about this bs repubs/cons keep throwing at dems/libs who are against the Prez Bush's Iraq War.

It goes something like this:

"If the dems/libs are against the Iraq War and want to cut off the funding to our troops there, then they are treasonous traitors who are aiding and abetting the enemy."

this is total bs...

this issue has nothing to do with "supporting the troops" It has everything to do with:

"THE MISSION THAT THE TROOPS ARE ON IN IRAQ"


THAT is what people who disagree with President Bush are talking about. We BELIEVE that President Bush's Iraq war is a failure and the best way to "support the troops" is to redepoly them out of harms way in the middle of a civil war Iraq.

sloo
PRIOR to Pelosi going, she told not to go. May I ask by whom and under what authority? If you mean Bush he has n