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Tuesday, March 27, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Sen. Hagel's Reckless Rhetoric
by David Limbaugh
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RINO (Republican in Name Only) Sen. Chuck Hagel boldly suggests (without being bold enough directly to identify with the sentiment) that some congressmen are considering impeachment proceedings against President Bush because he is flouting Congress and the public on Iraq. Hagel needs to be pressed on this.

Hagel has been dogging Bush for months, if not years, over Iraq, and now he is actually doing the antiwar Democrats' bidding on it.

"Any president who says, 'I don't care' or 'I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else' or 'I don't care what Congress does, I am going to proceed' -- if a president really believes that, then there are … ways to deal with that," said Hagel on ABC's "This Week."

You would think that a person who has made it to the United States Senate would have a least a rudimentary understanding of our constitutional government. You would assume he would have grasped that impeachment is a remedy to remove a president (or other officer) for the commission of high crimes and misdemeanors.

While "high crimes and misdemeanors" is a term of art, it most certainly does not encompass presidential action, which, though legal and constitutional, is not popular with the American people or a majority of Congress.

So isn't it enormously ironic that Hagel is hinting that Congress might impeach the president essentially for abusing his constitutional authority when by taking that action Congress would be grossly abusing its constitutional authority?

If a plebiscitary democracy is what the framers of our Constitution intended, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and paper, not to mention the extensive studies they undertook leading them to the conclusion that a constitutional republic -- not a pure democracy -- offered the best chance for securing the blessings of liberty and prosperity for America.

Indeed one of the main reasons our nation has flourished and survived is precisely that it never purported to be a pure democracy or anything remotely resembling it. If the democratic ideals of the French philosophes had prevailed with America's constitutional architects, our experiment in constitutional governance would have long since terminated.

For Sen. Hagel to imply that the president serves at the pleasure of Congress and the people (a la the British system) betrays a startling misapprehension of our unique form of government. And this man is actually considering a run for the presidency -- on the Republican ticket, no less?

But, for the sake of further discussion, let's move beyond Hagel's fundamental misunderstanding of American civics. Since his main complaint against the president seems to be that he is not marching to the commands of Congress or the people, isn't it interesting that without a fortuneteller or divining rod we can't even be sure what those commands are?

If public opinion surveys were to be binding on the president, which ones should he heed? (Where are those silly computer polls candidate Ross Perot promised when you need them?) But if we voters are supposed to be the collective commander in chief, perhaps we should forfeit our franchise as well for vacillating and sending mixed signals to the president on Iraq.

Indeed if congressmen want to impeach the president for not following their dictates, perhaps they should first tender their own resignations for the same reason. That is, Democrats claim they were elected to majority control in 2006 with a mandate to end the war in Iraq, and yet, without grotesque bribes from the public treasury they can't even muster a majority to pass a resolution to enforce their "mandate."

Someone needs to deliver Sen. Hagel and his like-minded congressional colleagues a memo explaining that the president is commander in chief and that he cannot be fired either by Congress or the people in the absence of committing high crimes and misdemeanors, which involve monumentally more than policy disagreements with the legislative branch. If anything, it is certain congressmen, not the president, who are exceeding their constitutional authority by attempting to usurp the president's lawful power as commander in chief.

Populist politicians are fond of congratulating themselves for attempting to implement the public's will, but it was just such demagogues the Framers had in mind when they installed safeguards in our constitutional framework to prevent a mobocracy.

Sen. Hagel owes the people, who he claims to represent, an apology for his reckless rhetoric.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Hagel
Please someone remind him of separastion of powers.
Before the additional buildup, Dems were saying "we need more troops", now they say, Why are you sending more troops??
Leaders Lead, and not by polls. GWB's greatest problem is he does't care about polls. He knows the buck stops with him.

Hagel is a Republican?
I enjoyed Mark Levine's response to a statement from a democrat strategist last night. The democrat quoted Hagel and stated as a means to emphasize the quote that Hagel is a republican. Levine's immediate response was, "He is?"

Hagel's a showboating
arsh0le.

Plain and simple.

Hagel
is dim. He doesn't even know the Constitution. I'm starting to wonder if any of these dim bulbs we have in DC know it.

Shameless plug for my blog: I have a new series of Juliet Smith's Diary, Chapters I,II, and III and find out what it would be like living in a socialist America.
http://www.peppermintsplace.townhall.com

Hagel

Is not even a RINO, he's a Tanabear; has hated Bush from Day One.

No, I do not like George Bush, nor did I like Bill Clinton, neither are or were good Presidents, but I don't hate them either.

Hate is unreasonable.

As far as I am concerned, there is only one thing George has done right; he took the fight to the Enemy instead of allowing them to choose their battles and fight us on our soil.

Funny that that is tanabear's chief complaint against him. As I said, hate is unreasonable.

Lynne...
Holy cow, What is it with all the little trolls? Sim jim is a piece of work...and Tanabear is in true monkey girl form,Hey? I'm telling you that somebody pissed in my wheaties and any "monkey rants" may get vitriolic attention. Beware!

Should call it
Hagel's feckless rhetoric.

Hagel isn't a RINO,
he's a JACKASS!!! Nebraska is ashamed.

He is also a disgrace to all veterans, and in my opinion he must be the dumbest Senator on the hill who simply can't keep his self-aggrandizing yap shut.

Makes me yearn for the good old days, when honor was defended by duels. He's so puffed up with his own importance, he'd stupidly welcome the challenge, unlike cowardly dhimmicraps who would go hide under their beds.

To a point I made yesterday, who needs dems when you have such short-sighted repubicans doing your dirty work. Congress' push to micro-manage the war is the primary reason that George Washington insisted on C in C powers for the Presidency. In his infinite wisdom, and through his unhappy experience during the Revolution, he saw the folly and danger of too many armchair generals.

I'm not a Bush cultist, as he's done/not done many things I'm not happy with, BUT he is the Commander in Chief and for better or worse, is well within his authority to direct the military using HIS own judgement and dismiss any who serve at his pleasure. The people elected him to do so, like they have every President before him and until his term is up, he is obligated to do his duty as he sees fit.

Clinton was a disgusting, cowardly piece of work, but before I retired in '98, I served and followed his orders because I swore in my oath of enlistment; "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Congressmen & Senators also swear an oath; "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Notice the common phrase stressing the Constitution and then ask who is faithful to their oath and who isn't?

Liberals have attacked this most important founding document for most of my lifetime, most notoriously by assigning to it the "living, breathing" manipulation. Like the imagined "separation of Church and State," both are inventions cut from whole cloth and don't exist in the language at all, except in the minds of those who live in a childish gray area with no absolutes, no right or wrong, if it feels good, do it mentality.

I believe dhimmicraps are over-reaching, over playing their hand in their misreading of the last election. People didn't send them to DC to undermine the troops and weaken the country from within by endless investigation and partisan political posturing. It didn't work for the repubicans attacking Clinton and it won't work against Bush. This country may be divided on a lot of issues, but an inherent sense of fairness is still present. More and more citizens are rejecting the cut and run, retreat and surrender policies of the far left, who are totally invested in the defeat of Bush and by implication, our country. If you don't believe me, just listen to talk radio everyday and hear from those former dems who are furious with the betrayal of their party.

Voters were unhappy with the lack of progress in Iraq and pizzed off about out of control spending. So what are the new majority's priorities? Kill any chance for progress in the war, and out of control spending. People are also beginning to see through the false phrases and phony rhetoric like "civil war," "war crimes," "abuse of power," and "rights." These buzz words are losing their effect because they're overused and misused ad nauseum.

For one thing, it IS NOT a civil war in Iraq, it's more like the Bloods and Crips with turbans, creating chaos and anarchy, and intimidating decent people seeking a little freedom. And if you think they don't want to bring it to our shores, wait and see what happens if we withdraw.

The real civil war is in our own country, instigated by leftist radicals who claim to have our best interests at heart, but instead are seeking our humiliation and defeat out of their mindless hatred for the President. Sick stuff, indeed. I have no understanding of this thought process but I do know it must be vanquished.

Withdrawing support for the troops is going to be the final straw. People, no - all true patriots - are mobilizing and making their feelings known.

Rolling Thunder - OoooAhhh!

Talk about straw dogs...
""Any president who says, 'I don't care' or 'I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else' or 'I don't care what Congress does, I am going to proceed' -- if a president really believes that, then there are … ways to deal with that," said Hagel on ABC's "This Week.""

Could Chuck Hagel please tell me when and where Bush actually said these words? Answer - no, he can't. Because Bush never said them

Not only is Hagel suggesting Bush should be impeached for disagreeing with Hagel, he is suggesting that Bush should be impeached for words he never spoke but were in fact put in his mouth by Hagel; for thoughts Bush has never thought, but are instead assigned to him by Hagel.

What a pompous AZZ.

Question for Tanabear
If you're so hot for War Crimes Tribunal for President Bush and his administration what do you think the troops should face? When are you going to try me? I am a veteran who served in Iraq twice; I believed then and still believe now we did the right thing by invading. It just so happens I base my opinions on having served in a classfied position. Where did you get yours? From the NY slime and other media outlets?
You and your kind make me sick and yes I do question your patriotism. You are everything I fought to keep from infesting this country. Your hatred only serves to highlight your lack of patiotism in my book. I know in your eyes I am a NeoCon shill, But to me you are a communist scum bag living off the acheivements of better people than you'll ever be. You are a slave and you always will be a slave' because you can't free your mind form ignorance.

Tanabear
The last time I searched to Constitution, there was no mention of War Crimes. Lucky for the nation, the Founders were fairly explicit in what Congress can do to the President as far as criminal acts are concerned.

You like most people don't mind to criminalize political discourse and dissent if you cannot win at the polls. The Democrats, our modern day Jacobins, have made criminalizing politics thier only forte for 33 years. Hegal obviously suffers from the 15 minutes of fame syndrome. He is in love with his own voice. Public adulation vis-a-vis the Beltway media club is apparently intoxicating for him. He cannot get enough, and his need for greater kudos from the MSM leads him into doing irrational things -like impeaching a sitting President for doing no than to fullfill his duties as Commander in Chief.


Since Jan 23rd, we've witnessed the conviction of a man for giving testimony that contradicts 2 well known reporters;a continuation of Earmarks in our budget process;a former Democratic Veep who preaches radical enviormentalism while he is flown and driven around in gas guzzeling jets and SUVs;4 calls for surrender in Iraq;a potential constitutional crisis between senate dems and the WH over a non-issue where the senate has no jurisdiction.

A great start for the Dems.

Y'ALL KNOW ABOUT THIS...
DON'T YA?
Hagel was the creep that actually stopped the ICE from actually enforcing the law and arresting a bunch of illegals (Onion pickers).

The company called ol' Hagel and told him he better make them stop, or their crops would go bad.

So.......Hagel obliged ....(he cares more about the bottom line of greedy business rather than the actual rule of law)...and that was the beginning of the end of the actual enforcement of actual laws regarding actual illegals actually commiting crimes.

Hagel is an actual creep and I can't believe he doesn't get actually booted out of office.

Y'ALL KNOW ABOUT THIS...
DON'T YA?
Hagel was the creep that actually stopped the ICE from actually enforcing the law and arresting a bunch of illegals (Onion pickers).

The company called ol' Hagel and told him he better make them stop, or their crops would go bad.

So.......Hagel obliged ....(he cares more about the bottom line of greedy business rather than the actual rule of law)...and that was the beginning of the end of the actual enforcement of actual laws regarding actual illegals actually commiting crimes.

Hagel is an actual creep and I can't believe he doesn't get actually booted out of office.

He decreases donations
A Senator such as he decreases contributions to the National Republican Senatorial Committee and similar organizations. Who wants any of their donation potentially funneled to this man? It is all about Sen. Hagel (huge ego) and he is not a team player. A disgrace!











Pappy Michael
How many acts do you believe define a president? I disagree with GW Bush on his fiscal policy. I disagree with him on his immigration policy. I also disagree with him on much of his administrative policy, in particular his failure to clean house and his desire upon entering office in 2001 to try to get along with those that hate all the republican party stands for. Despite all this, like you, I agree with his reaction to 9/11 and his taking the fight to the enemy. I admire him for the manner he kept this country together and the strength he exhibited immediately following the 9/11 attacks. For this I believe history will remember him as a good president and perhaps even a great president.

Lynne: Doggone it!
I lost the schedule. It's my turn? I thought it was Pepp's.

Well said Roadmaster!
A big OORAH to you Roadmaster! You are firing in the Ten Ring! Aim LEFT and fire for effect! Chuck Hagel operates in the same manner as McCain. He thinks he is a "maverick" and loves the adoration heaped on him by Liberals in the media when he is attacking his own party. It is the only reason he is "invited" on the liberal sunday show circuit with the likes of Tim Fitzrussert and Stephie Stephanopolous. People like Hagel and McCain are useful idiots. They bask in the glow now, but you watch what Fitzrussert and Stephie do to them if they fall out of line or worse yet win nomination. All of a sudden McCain's temper will become an issue. And Fitzrussert, with furrowed brow, in full interrogator mode will demand "Senator what about your involvement in the S & L scandals along with the Keating Five?" Stephie in his effeminate way will ask, "but Sen. Hagel we have sworn testimony from Dan Rather and Morley Safer that your unit was at least five clicks from that ville where the so called "zippo squads" were operating yet you did nothing to stop it, and the American people demand to know why? Bloods and Crips, I love it, I guess we need to pull out of LA! I remember taking the oath like it was yesterday. I don't remember Tanabear or SimJim being there!

Roadmaster!
I almost forgot! "Separation of church and State" and "living breathing document" are in the Constitution! They are between "Affirmative Action" and "abortion".

ALL
Hagel is a scumbag, pure and simple. I wouldn't PIZZ on him if he was on fire.

That said, swoop in and check my blog for several hard-hitting articles INCLUDING one on another Leatherneck in the pipeline for a Medal of Honor (posthumously) and one from Omar from Iraq with the Gouge that the Libstream Media DOES NOT WANT YOU TO READ!

Even you piZZant libs are invited if nothing more than to provide fodder for The Gunny to rip apart.

Shameless blog plug achieved. You may continue with your daily routine.


No Consensus Government
The President of the United States is not required to govern by consensus and for Hagel to imply otherwise is irresponsible and dishonest. Hagel's remarks confirm that he is just another career politician who cares more about what's best for him than he does about what's best for the people and country he promised to serve. Setting aside Hagel's personal opinion on the Iraq War, to which he is certainly entitled, what public interest is served by suggesting that presidents who refuse to change policy to reflect the most recent public opinion polls are subject to impeachment?

If Hagel believes President Bush should be impeached because his Iraq policy isn't reflective of popular opinion, then that same principle should be applied to members of Congress and all other elected officials. Given the "Hagel Principle," the current members of Congress should be impeached because they refuse to end the Iraq War by cutting off the funding. If, as the anti-war crowd implies, ending the war is good for our troops and good for our country, why is Congress so reluctant to do it now?

Regardless of which side of the Iraq War debate one supports, all Americans should be concerned that we now have a Congressional majority that insists it is imperative to end the Iraq War, but refuses to do so because of the policitical price it might have to pay. If the Congressional majority is sincere in its belief that ending the war is the right thing to do, then they should do it now, not on September 1, 2008.

Limbaugh's Analysis is the problem
The Constitution limited all three federal branches, and gave the Legislature the power to impeach members of the other two. Incompetence and open defiance of the law are all that's needed for impeachment.

One need not prove motives (although perception of deception is certainly a motivator for impeachment). Nor must one pretend that the impeachment proceeding is a legal court. The Founders intentionally made the decision a political one, a vote for which the legislators are responsible as soon as they again face their constituents. The time for impeachment -- of Chney first, and then Bush -- is frankly long past.

Hagel is right. Limbaugh is indignant, but he is wrong. And, with regard to the tone of the conversation, may I quote Barry Goldwater from the 1960 GOP convention at the Chicago Stockyards:

"Grow up, conservatives!"

BrianR
HAHA! You got the Duty! haha.

Hey, just don't toss up a lame salute like Hanoi John and tell us that you are: "reporting for dooty!"

I'm cracking myself up.

BrianR
D*MN! Forgot to add...

Just ask them an ECONOMICS 101 question and when they can't answer, it's a 99.999% chance that they're a steaming chunk of libsqueeze.

No, Gunny
It was "reporting for doody." That's what he aimed to do, poop on all of us.

He who would be king
Americans could solve the majority of political problems in this country if we would ban sitting governors or Congressmen not to run for President.
All these Little Lord Fauntleroy's fancy themselves as would be kings, while they are supposed to be doing their job of what they were elected to do.
Prime example John Edwards, Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton are merely using their position as Senators and former Senators to run for President. The above three wanted to be President from the beginning and just used their Senatorial seat as a stepping stone that's all.
They could care less about their Senatorial seat, they just want to use the title and the power and prestige of a Senator to pad their resumes.
So the people in the long run lose a Senator who actually is doing the job that he or she was elected to do.
So if Congressmen and Governors want to run for higher office then they should either wait till their term expires or the resign from office.
If legislation was passed to prevent them from running for President while holding on to their present seat, we would see a big change in politics because they would be forced to concentrate on what they were elected to do and being paid to do.
This country needs full time governors and Senators not part timers that the tax payers have to subsidize so they can run for President and still get a paycheck. Sure doens't work that way in the real world.


Gunny, Lynne
Yeah. I think there must be some PoliSci 101 students coming by, judging by the lack of depth and knowledge in some of the posts.

A college education just ain't what it used to be. "College education" has become an oxymoron; now it's "college indoctrination".

Blow Smoke
Sen Hagel is a moron and spends most of his time Blowing Smoke up everybody back side, he speaks the loudest just to hear himself and obviously dose not understand the Constitution.Given his obvious problem with bush since day one, it has worn thin and maybe he should look at what he has done, which is not much so maybe he should be investigated for not doing his job.Bush made the call and knows the buck stops with him, but a tribunal get real, we would have had to deal with Iraq weather it be sooner or later so bush went in sooner, so for the vets who have served in the middle east, we need to be there and just because Sen Hagel dose not like it, I say Tough get over it and support the troops and let them do their jobs, something you obviously have not done, is your job.

Lydia...
I wish we were neighbors! So many of my friends are so clueless on this illegal invasion issue.

I've heard the Hagel thing several times..I think Rush read about it..

I can't remember all the places, but it's been numerous.

Google Hagel and onions...see what ya get!

cons are such hypocrits
hagel has the highest conservative ranking of any sitting senator and because he disagrees with bush he is a rino?lol

he is a combat veteran and bush never left the states.
it is amazing how conservatives trash military hero after military hero simply because they disagree with bush.

hypocrisy thy name is conservative.

Senator Chuck Hagel is a RINO?
While the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" is a rather illusive concept, our constitution says the "House of Reps." and then "the Senate" get to decide what those terms mean! So I would NOT be so dismissive of Chuck Hagel, especially since the House is controlled by the Dems. (even though the composition of the Senate and the requirements of a 2/3 majority for conviction make it less likely that an impeachment will succeed). As for the term RINO, does it apply to Chuck Hagel simply because he's anti war?



Visit: http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

ChosinMarineSon
My pocket-sized Constitution has pretty small print, so I can't make out those words you claim are in there. But as a son of a Frozin Chosin, your word is good with me.

I have a really good old buddy in Tacoma, who was in that fight. He's 80 now, but still horny, alert, fit (for 80) and still 6 foot 5 inches of USMC heroics and patriotism. He brushes aside these modern day libs with no more effort than it takes to scrape dog poop off his shoes. He also has more guts and integrity in his fingernail clippings than a whole division of dhimmicrat-icks.


oops..
I found this...apparently it was meat packing in Neb...onions were in GA. But I swear I heard it was onions..

the actions are the same though.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613_pf.html

Chris
In your case, I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You are correct, impeachment is a political process, but the Founders intended for it to be used in extreme situations (ex. when a President commits perjury in a court of law). Yes, the Congress can impeach the President for manifest incompetence; however, impeachment with regards to Bush's fitness as commander in chief is not at all necessary.

Congress can simply defund the War. Yes, today, the nightmare can be over by 5:00PM (however, there are others who argue it would only be beginning) with a simple vote. Yet, the Democrats themselves are divided on this at best, or against it at the worst. Also, there are today not enough votes in the Senate to prevent a GOP filibuster. Now, the Dems could fix that as well, by passing a resolution to forbid filibusters (The House, to thier credit, did so in 1902).

Impeachment as you and others intend to use it, is more of a political weapon, or at the very least an attempt to impose a Parlimentary system of goverment versus a republican one (a vote of no confidence). Extremism is all the rage these days. Hegal's little piece of grand-standing before the Beltway Clerics is entirely nonsense, and most people know it. Congress can end this entire little bit of drama with a simple full house vote. Yet, Pelosi and Reid failed to even attempt it.

Please, try reading The Federalist Papers and rethink your ideas on constitutional practice as intended by the men who wrote it.

KYJuris Doctor
Hegal is a political apostate. Five decades ago, no senator from either party would have dreamnt hypothesizing impeachment of a president from thier own party. Politcal parties are useful in politics. People tend to congregate around groups of people who share similar politics. In the old days, party discipline would have taken care of a Hegal. If this was 1957, the ranking Senator in the GOP would have removed Hegal from all important committe he sat on or persided over. By the end of the day, Hegal would have found himself on the Senate Commitee over-seeing coconut regulations on Guam, or The Alaskan Tourist Sub-Commitee. Every piece of pork that would have gone to Nebraska would within a day be written out of law. K-Street lawyers seeing his lack of influence even in his own party would stop donating money, time, and attention. In short, his politcal career would had been finished.

Hegal, and his partner in crime Sen Linday Gramm, learnt that emulating McCain has certain benefits. MSM adulations in one of them. These 3 men believe they can get to the WH by betraying thier own party. Being a Maverick costs them nothing -well in the long run it will cost them the WH, but they don't see it that way. Not yet, anyway. Hegal hasn't yet figured out that his little comments on impeachment made him persona non-grata outside of his own state. He has a better chance securing a Democrat nomination than one in the GOP

All of the name calling from you
Right-wingers is music to my ears because it means that you don't have anything of substance to say.

Now you turn on one of your own who dares not falling down at the feet of Prince George. Priceless

Hey GunnyG!
Gunny, Your killin me! "steaming chunk of libsqueeze" OUTSTANDING! You have to give some kind of warning before you do that. Everyone in the office is watching my crackup! The only thing I could possibly add would be "GRABASSTIC Steaming Chunk of Libsqeeze" such as Chris who quotes Goldwater when telling us to "Grow Up".

Hagel posturing for the Democrats
Isn't it funny when a Republican disagrees with President Bush, all of a sudden they sound just like a Democrat. They use all the propaganda the Democrats uses to discredit President Bush. Hagel is upset because he had to withdraw from running for President, because of some bogus excuses of his. What Hagel doesn't understand, you can disagree with President Bush, but when you become too extreme like the Democrats and the anti war protesters, then your out of luck with the voters. If all you want to do is complain, like the Democrats do about the war in Iraq, our troops, and President Bush, then your cutting your own throat as a candidate for President. Hagel is not Presidential material. It takes more then a cry baby to run for President, ask John Kerry, Al Gore, and John Edwards. These guys know how to cry and make a living off of it. No one has told Hagel to his face, there's something in a man when people look at him and hears his words, that they know right off the bat, he'll make a good President. It's all in Hagel's own mind plus his Democrats friends of his, that he would have made a good President. This is just another good example of a weak man who fell for the Democrats head job, they put on weak Republicans, they convinced saw the light and now wants to bring that light to the rest of the Republicans. The only ones who wants to hear what Hagel has to say now, are the Democrats, the anti war protester, the anti Americans, the terrorist, and the media. They trust Hagel and Hagel trust them, which is why Hagel is spreading rumors of impeachment against President Bush, as though he's on the inside of the Democrats trust.

Chris
Chris, perhaps you should read posts from Kimberly,Tanabear,SimJim, Lydia and the rest of the Starbucks Socialist escapees from Kos and Huff post,who frequent this site. Then read yours. When you are done make an assessment as to who needs to grow up. Grow up indeed! Also, don't forget the oxymoronic LiberalRealist who cannot even grasp from the previous posts that Hagel is not "one of our own" Prince George...wow, thats substance.

roadmaster
My burst. Too much caffiene.

hagel for president????
Hagel is just priming the public for a run at the presidency after the rest of the candidates beat each other up. Hagel thinks Bush's lower poll ratings will open the door to a "heroic" senator who fought the system when in fact he is just another egotist who is out for himself.

BrianR
No lie GI. I've debated some of these nimrods and found almost w/o exception, that chimpanzees have a higher learning curve and more intelligence that these pseudo-intellectual libstains.

LiberalRealist
Kinda like how the Dhimmicrats treated Libermann right?

If you had half-a-brain, you'd see that we REGULARLY skewer Jorge Bush for things like NO border security, for NOT playing cowboys and illegals, thus preventing a roundup, etc.

You see, THAt is the difference between us and you liblemmings, we're NOT rubberstampers whereas you people are goosesteppers of the highest order. After all, NSDAP stood for:

National Socialist DEMOCRATIC Aryan Party.

BTW, how's KKK Byrd doing these days? The only serving KKK member still in the Dhimmicratic Party!



Hagel- what an idiot!
Chuckie "I am an idiot" Hagel has the influence on voters comparable to that of a fart in a tornado. He is such a lightweight that his mere presence on an aircraft guarantees flight. He panders to voters like a prostitute standing on a steet corner in a red light district. He would best serve this country as a busboy in the congressional dining room. Damn, he is stupid!

Like we really care what liberals think
That means you Hagel. Please, PLEASE! move to the extremist leftist side - they live off traitors such as yourself. Cons/Rep could care less - only real men, and women, need apply.

will
Dang, thanks for telling me that I'm emotional here in my thinking. Gee, all of these years I thought that I was a critical thinker, able to separate what I saw/read, from what I thought/felt, as I was taught in the Corps.

Man, I truly owe you a debt of gratitude for opening my eyes to the fact that deep inside, I was a whiny, pablum-puking libwad. Gee, guess I'll have to go home, take my US flag out into the street, and crap on it like the libs in Portland Oregon do.

What a mook. You probably think guys like KKK Byrd, Jimmy Karter, and Team Sandy Burglar are great patriots!

Bad Boy
You hinted at one other point, but didn't explicitly make it:

As members of long standing in DC, they had MORE and BETTER contacts than Bush, who had been in office less than a year.

They had every bit of intel he did, plus the years and years of evaluating that intel, as well as long standing contacts with military and intelligence services.

Yet somehow, neophyte Bush managed to deceive them and trick them into going to war?

I don't buy it.

Conservatives don't all support Bush
The attitude of too many folks here is to make support for Bush's war policy a litmus test for conservatism or membership in the GOP: If you think Bush's handling of the Iraq War has been a fiasco, you cannot be a "true conservative."

PLEASE don't do that. You are marginalizing conservatives like Hagel, William F. Buckley, George Will, Diana West, and me. All of whom have criticized Bush from the RIGHT, not from the LEFT.

Check Chuck Hagel's voting record; it's conservative; he got a high rating from the American Conservative Union. But no, that's not good enough for you, he also has to be a cheerleader for the Bush war policy if you're going to accept him. Well, NUTS TO THAT!

Don't you admit by now that the war has been a disaster for this country? And if so, why are you driving away people who had the guts to point that out?

Correction
Had been in office less than one year on 9/11. And even when war started in Iraq, he had been in office for less time than a single senatorial term in office.

So please, libs, tell me how he got so tricky he fooled skilled politicians, who ahd the same info, and had much longer experience in evaluating intelligence, and who also had longer and more extensive contact with the military, CIA, etc.

LOL!
I have to laugh! I knew the idiot libs would post here due to the nature and the relations of the author. The Congress doesn't know the Constitution and it's the idiot libs that elected them because they don't know it either. Go ahead and try to impeach Bush. Then the world can see what idiots you really are, because you have no grounds what so ever to impeach Bush. While your busy impeaching him don't forget to impeach your lovely Senators and Representatives for voting for it! You guys are really ignorant and cowards to boot that cannot see past the ends of your own noses. Dumb doesn't begin to describe you. You suck up lies and rhetoric and whip yourselves into the world's biggest frenzy. You lack logic and common sense!

GunnyG
Your my Hero,Keep breaking it off in those Chimps, but I still think that Chimps rate higher than any of the liberal left has to give us.I still don't think they understand we are for smart Government like no open borders/no Amnesty for Illegals and if bush dose not support those things than shame on him.America deserves better than the pathetic job our leaders have been giving but whats new.Alittle info on that Immigration/Amnesty open border issue,(R) Sen Iskson from Ga has a new bill that allows for Amnesty also today the House of Representatives Guterrez/Flake Amnesty bill comes out that also allows for full Amnesty.We need to contact our Congressmen/Senate to stop this from going thru.Info Immigrationinfo@numbersusa.com for details-Man I need that Thompson Sticker GunnyG, perfect to p*ssoff some flaming LIBS.

To Mr. Limbagh
You say "Sen. Hagel owes the people, who he claims to represent, an apology for his reckless rhetoric."

I say hagel the Snake owes the people an apology for existing.

Hagel is a punk
but at least he was smart enough to know he wouldn't win the nomination in his own party. He'd probably do well in the Democrat or Al Qaeda party (apologies for the redundancy).

Swill
And you my friend are a thinker,Damn And I thought i was going to have to get out my flaming liberal left over educated pompous bafoon manual and look up those big words you used, but wait I'm transparent to!!!No maybe being emotional about Libs like you and standing up for something like serving a nation or fighting the liberal left social commy birgade from destroying our great nation from moral decay,Did you read that in your Psychiatry weekly because your so smart!!!!!

Impeachment's Too Light
...these guys need to be tried for international war crimes, for crimes against humanity -- as well treason, for repeatedly lying, over and over and over again, to the american people.

funny how republicans don't seem to care about THAT very much...

While we are making up new rules
for the governance of our country. How about, by simple majority of Townhall readers, we decide who is or isn't Senator of Nebraska.

To Lynne
It's worse than you think. I noticed that one of the lib posters on another thread had his name underlined. I went to his blog and lo and behold...lib post after lib post. I thought TH was supposed to be a Conservative Site and they allow lib democraps to setup blogs.

Lynne
The depth of ignorance from our Liberal opponents is amazing.

SJR
I believe Hegal thinks he can really someday get the GOP nomination. The Beltway gliteratti has put an entire bag of stardust in his eyes. Ditto for Linday Gramm.

And we thought King Louis's Court at Versailles was corrupt as well as out of it.

Lynne
I second your motion!

JP
True, but McCain thinks he can win the nomination too. How deluded is that?
McCain is the one candidate who, when the movie was made of his presidency, it would need to star Walter Brennan or Burgess Meredith to play him. That twitch in his eye, while amusing to watch, just makes me as anxious as a john edwards in a prison shower. Nope, I think a candidate can easily be predicted based on the actor who would need to portray him. Thompson is a good bet, he could play himself.

Racing to Be TOP Benedict Arnold
Arnold must be feeling pretty good about himself about now with so many POLITICIANS racing to the take the monkey off of his back. I would think that even Arnold would have a problem with government officials basically micromanaging and providing aid and comfort to the enemy while at war. Dont get me wrong, normal everyday citizens should have this right, but our ELECTED OFFICIALS have a greater responsibility to the troops while they are in harms way. Playing politics with their lives is treason in the best of light.

Lynne
BrianR needs to be charged with Derilection of Doody. The children are running loose in here. The yammering libsquirts must have collectively missed the small yellow bus today.

Lynne
I know what you mean. In the DC Statehood column, I have to keep explaining the idea of federalism. I thought that was high school civics material... Or maybe I am not being clear.

More likely I am trying to convince liberals the constitution matters. (And not just the emanations from the penumbras that OK abortion rights.)

Lynne, andrews, etc
The problem is the differing views of the Constitution. Demon-crats view those printed words more as a genie, you rub them and make a wish as to what you'd like them to say. We view it as a document, they view it as a living thing that can still be aborted.

This (sort of)
covers their approach to the Constitution. Or maybe not.

http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/g/96c4619e-28bd-4f08-9917-9cb247298826


I agree with the substance of these post
and with the Limbaugh article. But why all the name calling and demonization. And before someone answers that the libs do it too, does that make it right?

The Don
You know, the really scary thing is that the posters in here most likely ARE their professors.

By the way Lynne
Still hoping to hear a legally based defense for your repeated assertion that the US never occupied Iraq.

Tanebar
Which Tribunal do you refer to? Iran has several, as does China. And the EU, well Europe as a whole has a big problem even defining what a crime is. As I write, 15 British Marines are held hostage in Iran. Yet, when asked about the criminality of the act, both the British Foreign Minister, and the EU President voiced an opinion that perhaps Iran has the right afterall to piracy. The 15 Marines be damned! There is also the little point of the EU nations releasing Islamic terrorists from jail even though they have life sentances for murder. One the most recent terrorists released was responsible for the murder of an invalid American tourist back in 1986. But hey, the victim was only an American and a Jew at that!!

So, that leaves us with the UN. Mmmm... Oil For Food Scandal, the scandal involving UN troops raping girls in the Congo (mainly French soldiers, and they never did get indicted). So the UN lacks a little credability, just a little.

So, you hatred of Bush is so great, you would hand him over either to the Chicoms, Iranians, EU or UN courts? He won at the polls, he cannot be impeached for simply being the CIC, so you will have him judged by those freaks? And you guys call us extreme.

Tanabear
First off, thanks for a civil discussion. But to start off with the brushing aside the WMD and links to al queda as non-existent basically defeats your argument before you can make it. But that discussion has been beaten to a pulp and I wont rehash it. Its a cunard anyway. Most of us understand the WMD was brought to the forefront as a means to convince the lilly-livered the CONTINUATION of the Iraq war was the right thing to do. Why they just didnt whip out UN Res. 687 and state that Iraq has been violating it since 1991 and it was time to put and end to the cherade is beyond me.

You make valid points of why are we still there. If we had fought this war like it was a war and not a popularity contest, PLUS WITHOUT THE TREASON AND SEDITION FROM OUR OWN POLITICIANS, this war would have been over with at least two years ago. That is another huge discussion.

If we had fought this continuation of the Iraq war the way it should have, the text from war crimes tribunals in abstentia from our detractors would be filling libraries by now.

I could not agree more..
To Solis when he said “...these guys need to be tried for international war crimes, for crimes against humanity -- as well treason, for repeatedly lying, over and over and over again, to the american people.” I swear he was talking about all of the Democrats in Congress, if not the whole. The Dems have afflicted war crimes against the People of America and the Democrats have overstepped their boundaries and do need to be put on trail for:

-LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE: “5 day work week…no government waste…reduce spending, etc.” It sure didn’t take the Dems long to break their own “morals”. There are just too many abuses and indiscretions by the traitorous leftist extremists to list here.
- BRIBERY WITH AMERICAN FUNDS: $20,000,000,000. $20 BILLION BRIBE! Enough said – Leftists bribing other leftists in WRITING! Please….there needs to be a committee to investigate everyone that voted yes for this bill immediately. This is treason in writing! Anyone that thinks that this is even ok to place into writing should be investigated. Just more examples of the immoral extremist leftist liberal party bullying the American people. Liberals only care to help themselves, their greed, their wealth and not to the people.
- “Purposely wasting American assets”. Wasting away investigating…what exactly? Inconceivable under any AMERICAN government, yet the Dems think they are above our constitutional law. Not only are the extreme leftists wasting taxpayer money, but they are also wasting taxpayer time as well. Democrats should be working on the items they have promised to us in their original platform. How does it feel to see the Dems destroy their own image and control? Even the uneducated man understands the term “Witch-hunt” and the Dems just can’t dig themselves out of this one. Dems are just making a mockery of themselves and justice all in the same motion. Bravo – way to abuse power.
- WAR CRIMES: by filing such an obnoxious, traitorous bill, the Dems have single-handedly declared war our troops overseas. An act of treason? You bet.

The Leftist Extremist Dems sure showed the American public what they consider most dear; LIES, DECEIT, BRIBERY AND TREASON. If you follow this Dem/Lib/Extremist party, this is your immoral platform. The DEMOCRAT Congress has single-handily declared war on the People of America, American Armed Services and doomed the US to fail in overseas diplomacy. Any failure at this time is square on the extremist liberal Dem shoulders since they could not deem it worthwhile to act as a congress should act and legislate. Instead, I see a bunch of petty wannabe people trying to play attorney, judge and jury. With our money.

I swear the new campaign slogan for the leftists is “Treason Works! © …DN.C”


The Don
You don't need to tell me. I work for a university. I am horrified daily at some of the ideas I hear.

At least the entymologists still seem apolitical. So maybe there is some hope for the universities of the world.

Hagel
I have become convinced that a majority of our elected officials are dumber than dirt.

And reading some of the comments here I understand the problem is in the pool of people we have to choose from.

A RINO?
Hagel, a RINO? What the hell is Bush? Limbaugh is deluded in his unyeilding support of Bush and his war.

To Lynne
Some of these libtards remind me of people who call in to C-Span. Right after I retired I tried watching that program in the mornings. It did not matter which side of the phone bank called in, the average intelligence level was the equivalent of a creosote post.

RickV
Bush is also a RINO. We know that.

Rush is merely stating that SUPPORT is needed and not direct attacks.

Hagel is a sack of sh*t and I have an article on the maggot on my blog (click on my handle).

BTW, I have buddies from Neb and they say that Hagel is a nasty pile of cow flop.

Bush cult shill
"Most of us understand the WMD was brought to the forefront as a means to convince the lilly-livered the CONTINUATION of the Iraq war was the right thing to do."

Well if WMD was just a "canard" and I agree that it was, what makes the "continuation" of the Iraq war the right thing to do?

"Why they just didnt whip out UN Res. 687 and state that Iraq has been violating it since 1991 and it was time to put and end to the cherade is beyond me."

This is one of the most absurd arguments made by the Bush Cult, because it means the United States military exists to enforce United Nation Security Council Resolutions. Why? I surely don't think that just because Iraq was in violation of a UNSCR that it obligates the United States to go to war, especially a costly and bloody was as this.

So if the United Nations is so bad, such a monstrous left wing, anti-American institution, why send U.S. troops to uphold the sanctity of a UN resolution?

The Bush Cult obviously makes comments they don't mean, or don't really mean. They are just desperately trying to find a case to justify the war. Even if Iraq was in violation of a UN resolution that doesn't mean it's in our national interests to invade Iraq, occupy it, and then turn it over to Iran. No one in the Bush Cult can explain this, and that's because they really don't support the war as such. They support Bush and therefore feel they must support the war.

"If we had fought this war like it was a war and not a popularity contest, PLUS WITHOUT THE TREASON AND SEDITION FROM OUR OWN POLITICIANS, this war would have been over with at least two years ago."

You're such a tough guy. So why don't you tell me exactly what this means? Are you suggesting we need to kill more Iraqis and not be so persnickety about killing civilians?

We are not fighting a war; we're trying to create a stable government. The reason we are not succeeding in Iraq is because Iraq isn't a nation, unlike Germany and Japan, and we cannot manufacture the artificial bonds of nationhood and graft them onto Iraq.

Since we've won nothing in Iraq, we have nothing to lose by leaving...the sooner, the better.




reply to Lynne
Lynne,
Don't go around claiming to know jack about history until you do. This quote in one of your posts is absolute bull:

"But, the FACT REMAINS, we have never occupied another country... ever!"

Go to this site and look at what's there:

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/WWII%20OCCUPATION1.html

You'll see lovely photos of "Army of Occupation World War II" and "Navy Occupation Service Medal World War II, medals given to members of those armed services who..you guessed it..served when the US OCCUPIED Germany and Japan. My father had the Army medal for the time he spent in Germany After VE Day.

Here's another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Occupation

This explains that we had what we called an Army of Occupation during the Mexican War as well, but I don't expect you to know about that one.


One more: http://www.spanamwar.com/medalscubaoccupation.htm
Yep, the Spanish-American War medal for...well, you know by now.


Another one: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/WWI%20OCCUPATION%20OF%20GERMANY1.html This is the medal for serving in the Army of Occupation, World War I.

Now, if you still wanna believe that we've never OCCUPIED another country, be my guest. Do some fact-check, for pity's sake, next time, huh?

addition to reply to Lynne
Just a quick thought. Maybe by "occupied" you didn't mean "occupied," but maybe something else.

By the way, the US Third Army was designated the Army of Occupation at the end of WWI, but by now you've probably figured that out.

Democrat Rules for Posting in Blogs
Posted by KewlLiberal, I mean, ANON:

1) Make up a name. Preferably a name that will make those Republicans really angry. Like George Bush. Or George W. Bush. They will never see it coming….muhahaha…..
2) Talking punts are cool: Not theirs, ours. But always tell the Republicans that they only spout out talking points, even though that is all we Dems know how to use.
3) Always use words like “always”. It makes you sound edumacated and always smart. Always.
4) Never admit that we do not understand Republicans. I know you do not know what they are saying – neither do I. Just remember the first word on the post must be the name of that person. Just re-type it and say “…only regurgitates the neo-con talking points.” Just copy/paste as often as possible. The Rep will not notice that you aren’t adding anything new or that you are posting it again and again and again on each new story. Its fresh! And Democrats will think you keep coming up with these great, cool insane idea’s Yeah, you are always smart!
5) Use words interchangeably: use neocon/rebublicans/goody 2 shoes. I know that we do not know what a neo-con is, but it has been said so many times on the blog it must have some meaning or insult, right? OOhh.. that’s another ..
6) Say something again and again and it must be true! That is what CNN has always said. Isn’t that what your two mommies told you as you grew up? Mine did. Even when my school switched to no grades. I was the smartest and I am going to show these Republicans a thing or to…or is it too? Or 2? Hmm…mommies?!?!???
7) Always remember the public is always behind us. Everyone always knows that the public wants to follow Democrats, I have poles to back me up. I thin they are east and west. That is what daily kos always says. That is why we had such a landslide Presidential election. If the republicans could only understand that…
8) Always exaggerate: We never can link to respectable sites, so we have to rely on each other to come up with these great ideas! Always say most of these people or those people are on our side.
9) Always quote polls (or poles? So confusing with this global heat). I do not know what a poll is or how it is used, but quote it. I guess it is important since it always backs up our talking points. I mean CNN always does these so they must be reliable.
10) Always try to post first on a subject. That’s right, just either make up a new name, and post #3. Then watch as people comment on your post! Feel the power as they debate your repetitive talking point! Yeah, that’s power baby, if we could only understand what those Republicans are saying…
11) Most of all remember, we live in a Democracy, not a Republic. Democracy – Democrat,, duh! Lol, they obviously didn’t go to a liberal school. Haha, they are so always stupid.
12) Oh, and finally Rule #10: Clinton is a god. He is always so kewl. Do not let those Republicans put him down. And Gore is so smart for having found the internet and global warming. Why can’t we be more like them?



Well Hagel has
done more than issue RINO Rhetoric. He has now joined the Dems in approving a bill that sets a timeline to get out of Iraq so that Bush will have to veto it.

I hope Bush is happy that all these RINOs are stabbing him in the back. I don't think he asisted Hagel because Hagel was not up for reelection, but if he had been up for election Bush would have supported him.

Hurrrah for Hagel
Hagel is about the only GOPer I can support so far. (Maybe Rep. Paul of Texas.) Hagel is in the IKE tradition, and so am I. The Party leadership now seems to have embraced arrogance, ignorance, profiteering, killing and other varities of Kookism.

Drive out all the so-called RINOS and the GOP will never be the majority party again. Many of us hold on to our Republicanism by a very thin thread.

Chuck Hagel
Chuck Hagel is just another of the Back Stabbing RINO's in the U.S. Senate who traded on his military experience account to get himself elected, same as some other senate RINO's.
I agree that one of the few things I like about George Bush is that he took the fight to the enemy with the backing of the Grandstanding screaming Liberals such as Senator Joe Biden and other's who are now cutting and running.
If the people want impeachment how about the senators Kennedy, and Kerry from Mass. that facilitated 1 Billion plus Big Dig Scam ???

gestelle
like many conservatives lynne does not base decisions on fact but on emotion.
every time i confront her with facts contradicting her statement she writes insulting comments about liberals and then runs away.


thirteenburn
a poll(gallop) out in usa today this morning says that 60% of americans want a deadline for withdrawl.

the country is leading the politicians, but keep believing your little myths and dems will sweep everything in sight in 08.

i don't favor one party rule as a matter of fact but conservatives have deluded themselves into thinking they speak for most americans when the exact opposite is true.

SInce it is certain that Bush will
veto the bill and money is needed by April 15 what should the president do to finance the war. Since we have had this long debate about checks and balances amoung the "co-equal" branches of government, here is what I propose. Veto the spending bill, inform the Democraps, including Hagel, that a bill must be passed expiditously without a treasonist timetable. Take what ever money is needed for operation of the war from the budget assigned to congress. When that runs out, take money from the budget to the Dems favorite liberal programs. After all, the congress can pass bills to authorize money but it is up to the executive department to spend it.

Koz'isms
You forgot one:

Start every post with "I used to be a loyal Republican for (10,20,30, a lot of -- pick one) years, but now that (Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Gonzales -- pick one) did (fill in latest republican outrage), I can no longr vote Republican." It must start every post.

To Lynne
I did not understand what he was ranting about. I have never seen any post by you that said we had never occupied a country. I started to reply but figured it would be best that you gut him like the 3 day old catfish that he is.

At any rate, I now I skip a lot of these libtard posts as soon as I notice the name tied to one of the more obnoxious ones like mr. youmakemepuke2 or one that appears to be an extended cut and past from the Encyclopedia Libranica.

Koz'isms
Forgot one more as well:

Never say "It's the Jews" no matter how much you want to blame them. Never say "Israel stuboornly continues to exist and ruins the Middle East peace process", instead blame it on Neocons. You can hint, but never come out and say "The Jews are to blame". Say "Perl and Wolfowitz and their neocon cabal continue to push Israel's interests ahead of ours." And, learn from Jesse Jackson, try never to say "Hymietown".

Red Tooth:
Do you really believe that a precipitous with-
drawal from Iraq would not inevitably lead to
further attacks on American citizens and inter-
ests around the world and on our own soil?

Isn't the Iraq war part and parcel of the war
against Islamic fascism?

Is your hatred of Bush and Republicans adequate
justification to call for a disastrous bailout
from the ME altogether?

For those who can't scroll up
Since in the past some people have proven themselves unable to refer to an earlier post, those two posts of mine referred to Koz'isms list of "How Democrats should post". I was making up rules for Dems who want to post to conservative sites.

Iraq Quicksand
Sometimes you wonder if there wasn't a powerful Al Qaeda plant in the White House and/or Defense Dept. Bin Laden couldn't have planned it better himself. Get the USA to invade Iraq. Bin Laden despised Saddam because he was a secularist who kept the lid on Muslim radicals. So, the USA would knock off Saddam. Then the Shia and Sunni factions would kill each other and many Americans. US troops would be caught in a quagmire and loosen their grip on Afghanistan, so bin Laden's Taliban friends could reemerge there. Meanwhile, most of the world would turn on the USA, moderate Muslims could be more easily convinced that the USA was waging a war on Islam, and US public opinion would divide sharply, creating dissension here at home. The US military would be both overextended and tarnished. Then, on top of everything else, the US treasury would be stripped nearly naked.

You get the picture - and the point. Could Cheney, for example, be a secret agent of Al Qaeda? Maybe Wolfowitz, perhaps a double agent for Al Qaeda and Israel?

Silly, you say. Not half as silly as most of those whose writings appear above this. It is discouraging that so many yakkadee-yak Americans are so brainwashed, so arrogant, so ill-informed, so intolerant, etc. All this, added to the O'Reillys and Hannitys, has made me cynical in my old age. I have wanted to be a Republican, but that party seems to be attracting so many kooks that I don't think I can. Then again, becoming a Democrat makes me sick, too.

Let me get pious for a minute. When is the USA going to listen to the teachings of Christ? He said something about gaining the whole world and losing our soul. Strikes me that that's what happening. As a patriot, it makes me very sad. It's time for negotiation not more arrogance and bigger bombs. If we learn that lesson the stupid invasion of Iraq might have taught us something. But the cost is so tragically high. Read the current Newsweek and weep!

hagel is taking a real
pounding over at Red State and also the entire Conservative Movement for not getting Hagel defeated previously.

http://www.redstate.com/stories/policy/we_suck_worse

roadmaster - go get'em!
Rolling Thunder - OoooAhhh!- OoooAhhh!- OoooAhhh!

Coudn't let this one go by without a comment.

Gathering of Eagles in Washington D.C. March the 17th added spice to my life. It's been years since I've felt this good about Patriotism in America.

MSM hardly noticed all those Eagles but those anti-war demonstrators noticed. They sure didn't burn any flags or soldiers in effigy like Portland Oregon demonstrators did.

I sure wish I could have been there.

Get with'em roadmaster. I love your comments.

Lynne
Gee, thanks for suggesting that I be 'let out' of this site forever, which is a long time. Do you think it's as long as we will have to remain in Iraq, long enough so that thousands more US military personnel will be killed and maimed for life? Sounds like the best way to support the troops, right? That way we can support their caskets as they arrive, then tell their parents, spouses and childrren how brave they were. One hell of a way to support troops. The best way: bring them home. Go after the real enemies - bin Laden and his crazies. Saddam was evil, but he wasn't bothering us and Iraq women were miles ahead of women in Saudi Arabia. Most of them didn't even wear a head scarf. With the Shia in charge, that is likely to change. So the USA ushered in radical Islam to Iraq! Great victory for democracy???

Some of us (pardon the boasting) were smart enough to oppose the invasion of Iraq from the beginning. Those Bushites who don't think for themselves seem ready to defend the blunder long after it was clearly a big mistake. Bush I had the brains to stop at the Kuwait-Iran border. Son Bush II seems to lack gray matter up top. Actually, I think he means well, but with oil profiteers, the military-industrial complex, trigger-happy warriors, perverted 'patriots', and Israel-firsters shouting into his ears he was misled. He was right on Afghanistan. We had to hit those terrorist bases hard. But Iraq? Such foolishness on our part. Are you one of those who beat the war drums and egged us on? If so, better go to confession immediately if you're a Catholic. (The Pope opposed the invasion.) I'm a Protestant myself, though I suspect that God doesn't really care. In any case, I don't have to confess to such stupidity.

Nowledge
There's an old joke about people from Nebraska. They play football in Lincoln and have an N on the sides of their helmets. Nebraskans think it stands for 'nowledge'. Now, where this doesn't actually fit most of those from Nebraska, a wonderful, corn-filled state, it certainly seems to apply to Senator Hagel or at least it reflects his lack of (k)nowledge.

latter-daze
When we started chanting: "SHAME ON YOU!" some of the weasels DID look ashamed. In fact, it seems that the Iraq Vets Against the War have been infiltrated by frauds who, wonder of wonders, were not only NEVER in Iraq but NEVER in the service! Guess they're there for the dope and the broads.

ALL, Looks like Hagel the Douchebag voted with the libsquirts for the timetable. Now Jorge Bush has to find his BALLS and his veto pen.

Conservative Ron
LOL!

Yeah, it seems that a field of corn has a higher IQ that Hagel.

Lynne
Stop baiting the trolls. If you ignore them, they go back to the DailyKoS to natter to the other chimps, or was that chumps.

Lynne's.....
...utterly obnoxious behavior, pre-pubescent insults, demonization of anyone who disagrees with her, childish name-calling, and outright stupidity -- seem to be at an astoundingly new level today.

it's interesting because every other right-wing type here at least seems to maintain a reasonable level of decorum, while her tired eleven-year-old-child rants that go on and on without even being funny (like the whole "who let the kiddies in here?? hyuk hyuk hyuk..." boy, am i funny!) surely must embarass more than a few of her ilk. what a waste of space.

i have rarely, if ever, seen anyone so utterly full of themselves.

and of course, when she responds to this, you can bet it'll be followed by "i'm not going to read your posts cuz you're worthless! i'm just going to scroll right past them... la de dah de dah :-)"

for all the rest of you out there: you often have good things to say. responding to lynne only encourages her to make the rest of you look worse than you actually should. i know she doesn't hold a job, but i think it would behoove you to find a less bombastic, obnoxious, and more intelligent, spokesperson.


Conservatives must be Iraq cheerleaders?
badboy writes: "I don't think people are criticizing the fact that Chuck Hagel has been an opponent of the war and a critic of the Bush admin's handling of the war."

Oh yes, they are.
Go ask them for clarification if you don't believe me.

They're NOT just upset that Hagel mentioned impeachment. They're also upset that Hagel has publicly broken with Bush on the Iraq War--you're seeing just as many arguments here about the War as you are about the Constitutionality of impeachment.

Here's what the GOP is up against, based on the latest polls:

Percentage Who Think Iraq War is "Worth it"
Conservative Republicans: 83%
Moderate Republicans: 68%
Independents: 35%
Conservative/Moderate Dems: 20%
Liberal Dems: 15%

As a result, Republicans, especially conservatives, are being NAILED to continue to support the Iraq War if they're to be considered "loyal."

Whereas support for the war in EVERY other cohort has collapsed (down some 30-50 points in each cohort).

And as a right-wing registered Independent, the GOP has lost my vote for 2008, if they keep acting this way.



Lynne, sorry for the delayed response...
You explained how you felt, and what your opinion was. You have yet to respond to my presentation of the FACTS. In UN resolution 1486, tabled by the US and the UK, they ask to be recognized as the occupying powers under international. Calling me names and comparing me with you 3 1/2 grandson does not change the FACTS.

Again, the US ASKED TO BE RECOGNIZED AS THE OCCUPYING FORCE IN IRAQ!!! A request that was granted by the UN under international laws and definitions of occupation.

Sorry make that resolution 1483
which states "Noting the letter of 8 May 2003 from the Permanent Members of the United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the President of the Security Council (S2003/538) and recognizing the specific authorities, responsibilities, and obligations under applicable international law of these states as OCCUPYING POWERS UNDER UNIFIED COMMAND(the Authority).

Maybe you should have your grandson read this and explain to you what it means when a country ASKS TO BE RECOGNIZED AS AN OCCUPYING POWER!!!

bullgod
"Do you really believe that a precipitous with-
drawal from Iraq would not inevitably lead to
further attacks on American citizens and inter-
ests around the world and on our own soil?"

There is no reason to think so. The Sunnis just want us out, and so do the Shi'a militias. Why would they wish to pursue us back to the United States?

Our invasion of Iraq triggered a Sunni insurgency and provided Iran an opportunity to extend its influence to Iraq. These are not developments that are in our national interest, and there's little reason -- if any -- why U.S. soldiers need to continue to occupy Iraq.

What's the point?

SimJimSucks

Right, Bush was in office less than nine months and he bamboozled the entire Congress by "lying" to them using "intelligence" that they were unable to get.

What kind of drugs are you on boy?

I want to be sure to never take them, they melt brain cells.

Hagel

Despite all the comments for and against the war, it bears repeating.

Hagel is an self-agrandizing Politician who has hated George Bush from day one, just like Tanabear.

Can't respect anything he says.

I also think we should leave Iraq. Declare victory, give Israel all our older nukes and leave.

Cheers.

Hagel

Despite all the rants for and against the war, this bears repeating.

Hagel is an overbearing, self-agrandizing Politician who has hated George Bush since day one, just like Tanabear.

We need to leave Iraq.

Declare victory, pack up, give our older nukes to Israel and come on home. Close the borders behind you !

Lynne, are you for real?
Your definitions of occupation:

1)TO TAKE CONTROL OF (A PLACE) BY MILITARY INVASION.

You acknowledge the fact of the invasion in your post. Check out the Coalition Provisional Authority. During the year plus of the OCCUPATION, the CPA issued laws, 100 in total, which created an Army, wrote the Iraqi Military Code of Conduct, appointed judges, issued passports, issued driver's licenses, created trade policy, created tax law, printed and issued currency etc...

2)THE TERM OF CONTROL OF A TERRITORY BY A FORIEGN MILITARY.

The period from the establishment of the CPA in April 2003 to June 2003 when control of the country was officially transferred to the Interim Iraqi Government.

Lynne, you argue at such length when you are soooo wrong. Again, it just makes me ask, are you for real or a schill?

to Red Tooth
What about the Iraqi people? Wouldn't you agree that we have a moral responsibility to leave them a country where they can go about their daily lives and send their kids to school without risking life and limb. Much as I think this is the greatest foriegn policy blunder in generations, I also think we have to duty to the Iraqi people.

CPA
from april 2003 to june 2004

Bryce
We Americans don't have any duty to the Iraqi people, and while it's unfortunate what's happening to their country, it is not our responsibility. Do we have a responsibility to the people of Darfur and Bangladesh?

Besides, what's the plan to improve the condition of the Iraqi people? We don't know how to stop the violence or how to create a stable, and democratic regime. This involves nation building, and it's not something our military is designed for.

We should leave Iraq. Withdrawing from Iraq isn't "surrendering" or "cutting and running" but a return to foreign policy sanity.


Sorry redtooth
Like Colin Powell said, you broke it you own it. The current situation didn't just happen, we caused it by our bungling.

I don't have the answer to improving the security situation in Iraq, unfortunately no one does. But we can't just turn our back on these people.

hagel is an american hero
besides being a veteran (who conservatives always trash when they don't follow the party line) here is a man who has nothing to gain and everthing to lose.

some conservatives are afraid of someone who actually acts on their morals and conscience because some conservatives choose party over the country every time.

he thinks the war in iraq is a mess and is willing to lose his seat in the senate to take a stand.

most americans call that moral and courage but not most conservatives, they call anything outside of the party line as traitorous.

hypocrisy thy name is conservative.

Dear Senator Hagel
Chuck you Farlie.

Hamilcar Barca

hagel is an american hero DITTO
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally a lock step-er who has said I am not carrying water any more.

How can a party be 100% in agreement and all the right wing pundits say the same exact talking points, sound bites and slogans (cut n run, slow bleed and so on).

Well an organized party can do that. However taken to far you get totalitarianism or communist carrying the party line before the peoples best interest.

Now I am not calling the republicans communist, but this ATTACK Hagel, he is NOT a republican because he is no longer for staying in Iraq, SAYS IT ALL. NO room for descent. SAD, SCARY AND PATHETIC.

To stay in Iraq now, after 4 years, is immoral. Its all about a hail mary to save GOP face for future political power. To do that at the expense of ameircan and Iraq lives and mass money (debt spending) IS IMMORAL. They (the GOP) no longer sees victory, only political exile. They fear loss of power more than loss of american lives and our financial and military security.

They gambled, making dumb bets and now want to throw more good money and lives at it until the WIN.

PARTY BEFORE NATION IS IMMORAL.

A WIN IN IRAQ MEANS WHAT? A PRO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. NOT IN 100 YEARS IN Messopatania, heart of Islam. EVEN AFTER 100 YEARS AND ONE DAY, A COUPE COULD OVER THROW THE GOV THE DAY AFTER WE LEAVE.

Red Tooth:
If America runs from Iraq now, it will be per-ceived (rightly, I think) as a tremendous win
for the Islamic fascist terrorists of the ME.

They attacked us for decades, only to be
basically ignored by one administration after
another. US failure to respond encouraged the
terror states of the region, of which Iraq was
one - and will be again, if the Democrats have
their way.

Don't bother telling me Saddam wasn't behind
9/11; after seeing 3000 fellow citizens mur-
dered on our own soil, I no longer care which
particular bloody-handed Middle Eastern despot
ordered which particular murderous attack. It's
past time to clean up the whole region.

Failure to do so NOW will sign the death war-
rants of thousands more Americans.

Bull is your name
"If America runs from Iraq now, it will be per-ceived (rightly, I think) as a tremendous win
for the Islamic fascist terrorists of the ME"

The Soviet withdraw from Afghanistan was seen as a victory by the Islamic holy warriors, and by the United States, because the Soviets launched a war of aggression. If the United States finally does leave Iraq then it simply means the Neocons -- the aggressors -- have lost, and that the United States has won.

"They attacked us for decades, only to be
basically ignored by one administration after
another. US failure to respond encouraged the
terror states of the region, of which Iraq was
one - and will be again, if the Democrats have
their way."

This is a nice perspective: ignore history. Iraq fought a eight year war with the Muslim fundamentalism inspired by Iran. Iraq has lost more of its people to radical Islam than we have; and they've even paid a greater price. The State Department's Patterns of Terrorism was quite clear in stating that Iraq was not behind any act of terrorism against western interests. We invaded Iraq not because it was a strategic response to Muslim terrorism -- it wasn't -- but because the Neocons have designs on permanently colonizing the country with military bases.

"Don't bother telling me Saddam wasn't behind
9/11; after seeing 3000 fellow citizens mur-
dered on our own soil, I no longer care which
particular bloody-handed Middle Eastern despot
ordered which particular murderous attack. It's
past time to clean up the whole region."

Now, this is even better. You don't care about facts, who is responsible, and who needs justice. In fact it hasn't been established that any "Middle Eastern despot" ordered the attack. Officially, the mastermind was Khalid Sheik Muhammad, who wasn't a "despot" of any sort.

But don't let the facts, history, or basic standards of justice get in the way of your Bush Cultism.




very well done redtooth
he represents the same mentality that got us in this mess in the first place. bush and rumsfeld and company did not know the difference between sunnis and shias.

the joke of all jokes is we are now doing the dirty work for the shias whose main supporter is iran because only iraq and iran have majority shiites and when we leave sooner or later, we will be facing an anti-american shia theocracy.

i mean these people respect shira law more than the rule of law and always will.

Red Tooth:
I'm not ignoring history; the history of US
FAILURE TO ACT in the face ever-increasing
attacks against American citizens and interests
led to mass murder on our own soil. You seem
to believe that we can surgically excise each
particular criminal for particular acts, maybe
by lobbing a missile here or making an arrest
there. My point is that this is pretty much
the same thing we've been doing for decades.
Result: 9/11 and the prospect of a nuclear-
armed Iran.

You also seem to be denying the role played by
the govts of the ME, INCLUDING Iraq, in spon-
soring worldwide terrorism.

The consequences of of failure to take the
threat posed by Islamic fascism seriously have
already been demonstrated. The ME is shot
through with this diseased ideology. We can
fight it there or here, but fight it we will.

religiouslib, Sunnis and Shia alike are infect-
ed with the ideology of terror. Their minor
doctrinal differences with each other matter
as little as those between, say, Lutherans
and Episcopalians. The crucial point is to
recognize that we are in a war whether we
want one or not.

bullgod
Sunnis and Shia alike are infect-
ed with the ideology of terror. Their minor
doctrinal differences with each other matter
as little as those between, say, Lutherans
and Episcopalians.

minor doctrinal differences?
come on bulldog be real.

they are killing each other. have not ever heard of lutherans or episcopalians going to war with each other.

it would be one thing if we were fight terrorists in iraw but we are in the middle of a civil war.

shiites gunned down 50 sunnis in broad daylight today in tal afar.

Bull Bull
"I'm not ignoring history; the history of US
FAILURE TO ACT in the face ever-increasing
attacks against American citizens and interests
led to mass murder on our own soil..."

Actually it's America's refusal to mind her own business that encourages terrorism. Stationing troops in Saudi Arabia, supporting the embargo against Iraq, enforcing the no fly zone, and our one sided support for Israel are all factors that breed Muslim rage.

And when was the last time Lutherans and Episcopalians fought an eight year long war, and used chemical weapons on each other?

Not only are you ignorant of history; you are ignorant of current events.




bull- so you admit you don't care?
I was shocked to read that even though you understand Saddam was not responsible for 9/11, the whole region needed cleaning up anyway so we were right to attack when we did and how we did.

This begs the question- why choose Iraq over culpable countries like Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran? Could it have been that Bush Jr. felt the need to try to do the same thing as his dad did, except do it much worse while losing many more Americans in the process?

You seem happy to reside on the slippery slope of preemptively attacking any country we deem necessary without posessing sufficient evidence to merit an attack. Why haven't we attacked North Korea yet?

Red Tooth:
Yes, of course I know Sunnis and Shia are now
killing each other. My point was that their
sectarian differences are irrelevant to the
real problem of Islamic fascism. There are
terror organizations among both sects, and
also among supposedly-secular Baathists. All
operate with complicity of the corrupt dicta-
torships of the ME.

Your comment that "America's refusal to mind
her own business" underlies decades of attacks
against us is very telling; I suppose that you
mean it's all our fault that your fellow citi-
zens are being murdered, and that we should
just take our medicine without responding. Not
an acceptable basis for policy in my view.

Honeypie: I don't excuse Iran, Saudi Arabia,
or any of the rest, and I would suggest that
those regimes' time will come. Surely you can
see that Saddam could not simply be left in
power if the US is to have any hope of ending,
once and for all, the steadily escalating
assault on our country.

On the subject of pre-emptive war: I'm all for
it if it prevents the continuing attacks against
us. Simply blaming American policy begs the
real question - what exactly are we to do to
stop the murders of our citizens?

As I said above, we're in this war whether we
like it or not. We can act now, or we can wait
till we have to bury more Americans.

john boehner got booed
last night at a homebuilders and contractors association meeting when he said that we couldn't leave iraq cause they would follow us here.

the tide is turning quickly in america.
when a group of middle aged white men boo the republican minority leader for supporting the war the republcans are in deep trouble.

that line has never made any sense anyway.

the terrorists in iraq make up only 4% of the insurgency according to the pentagon generals and even al-quieda in iraq is mostly iraqi sunni now.

they just want us out.

did you see where the king of saudi arabia said our being in iraq was an illegal occupation.
the whole bush premise for this war is coming apart at the seams.
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