Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, February 02, 2007
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Don't Underestimate Antiwar Forces
by David Limbaugh
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


With the growing influence of the antiwar left in this country, particularly emboldened by the November congressional elections, I fear for our nation as I consider the strong possibility it could elect a liberal, antiwar commander in chief during wartime.

"Chill out," you say. "These people have been protesting for years. They're just fringe extremists and no one listens to them."

Really? It would be nice if they could be so easily dismissed. But these so-called extremists -- many of them Sixties radicals -- just happen to dominate our universities, and their sympathizers "own" the mainstream media. There are far more of them in government and politics than you think, and their impact is significant.

One of them would be commander in chief today but for some 120,000 votes in Ohio, or the noble efforts of certain Swift Boat patriots to highlight the other side of his military record.

People are way too casual about all of this. Surely someone as distinguished and powerful as John Kerry couldn't conceivably be contemptuous of this country. Indeed, every time Kerry uttered an America-bashing remark or expressed his willingness to compromise American sovereignty during the 2004 campaign, his weary defenders adamantly denied his words should be understood by their plain meaning.

But no matter what new excuses they'd come up with, they couldn't alter the fact that Kerry's expressions had been consistent since he came home from the Vietnam War and falsely accused his fellow soldiers -- en masse -- of unspeakable war atrocities. And though he indignantly denied the unmistakable intent of his words derogating today's soldiers and tried to pass them off as a bad joke, most people knew better.

Any remaining doubt as to his jaundiced predisposition against many things great and good in this country should be removed by his most recent performance at a world economic forum in Davos, Switzerland.

As all but those locked in closets know, Kerry said Bush administration foreign policy had caused the United States to become "a sort of international pariah for a number of reasons." And, no. Kerry wasn't just talking about what foreigners think of us. He was telling us what he thinks.

The almost 44th president of the United States amplified on the point. "When we walk away from global warming, Kyoto, when we are irresponsibly slow in moving toward AIDS in Africa, when we didn't advance and live up to our own rhetoric and standards, we [send] a terrible message of duplicity and hypocrisy."

But wait, there's more. And even considering the liberal bias of the media, it's amazing these additional statements didn't get more press than they did. Kerry announced his support for Iran's right to use civilian nuclear technology and said the West should withdraw its prerequisites for the resumption of nuclear talks with Iran.

He then said that Americans have an "unfortunate habit" of seeing the world "exclusively through an American lens." They only find out how different (read: more reasonable) the world is when they travel outside the United States.

As if all this weren't enough, Kerry voiced his agreement with Iran's former president Seyed Mohammad Khatami that violence in the Middle East "increased after the occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq and Bin Ladenism."

"Fine," you say, "but so what? Kerry's irrelevant now, so you should focus your energies elsewhere."

Don't fool yourself. Kerry is still a U.S. senator. His party chose him to be its standard bearer in 2004. Four years earlier it chose the increasingly hysterical Al Gore. Now it appears ready to nominate Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, both of whom are decidedly liberal, and both of whom are just as decidedly deceptive about it.

Though the adoring media feign obliviousness, Hillary is busy tying herself in knots avoiding, explaining and denying her previous statements and actions in support of the war in Iraq and Obama is proposing unspeakably reckless legislation to withdraw our troops on a not-too-distant date certain.

In the meantime, while Hillary and Obama are pandering to their base, and Kerry is slobbering all over foreign tyrants and excoriating his own country, Congress, including many Republicans, is threatening to oppose President Bush's troop surge in Iraq.

With one party having its head firmly planted in the sand concerning the war on terror and the other having far too many imitators who seem hell-bent on proving the United States doesn't have the stomach for this war, we can only hope those with a more sober and realistic perspective will persevere in their support for American policy and American troops.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read David Limbaugh's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
There are NO loyalty requirements!
The premise of this article essentially states that a politician must have an appreciation for the American way of life, and be willing to promote Western standards while abroad. In reality, there are no such requirements for those that aspire to public office, and even candidates for the highest office in the land should be free to be as disparaging as they wish, and even operate as mouthpieces for our staunchest enemies if they so desire.

America is built on the idea that our culture and laws are subject to change. Hence, if a majority of those wielding the power of the vote wish to transform our culture into one that supports Sharia law, extreme socialism, and legalized depravity, then the rest of the country is obliged to go with the flow. With this fact in mind, there is no reason to expect any candidate to not speak his feelings regarding the direction he wishes to lead the nation. As in the case of Jon Carry, he should be commended for his commitment to chastize his own nation in order to curry a favorable opinion from foreigners, and he should not be criticized for the act of debasing the very troops that have kept him from being imprisoned for expressing his unpopular opinions. Jon wishes to lead America down the path of socialism, encourages a surrender to the Islamic wave, and wants to retain his privliged position as a rich woman's concubine, and he should be free to pursue such a path.

Likewise, other politicians that wish to exploit the ignorance of the masses for their own personal benefit should be free to do so without regard for how they "should" act. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton sell out their "people" every day by encouraging members of their race to retain a defeatist attitude. Ted Kennedy purports to speak for the common man while simultaneously shoveling dump truck loads of lobster down his ever expanding gullet and then proposing laws that are economically lethal to the little guy. Hillary Clinton seeks the leadership position in the nation that is the very antithesis of her political beliefs. Yet all of these individuals have a common goal: the elimination of an America that they despise. So don't be quick to point out their flaws as they relate to our current national status. Rather, just remember that they are exercising their right to land a lethal blow to the last free nation on earth, so no explanations are necessary.

Jerome Corsi's "Atomic Iran"...
exposes how Kerry, Biden, Bill and Hillary Clinton ,and Teddy Kennedy have accepted campaign contributions from Iranian pro-mullah businessmen here in the US funneling their money through Iranian Islamic charity "front" organizations here in the US - religious organizations that they know cannot be investigated by currently ridiculous US law. Now you know the REAL reason why Democrats go absolutely apesh!t ballistic over anything involving spying on phone conversations. When the US government exposes these CRIMINALS in high office one day, it will be the destructive final end of the PARTY OF HIGH TREASON. Maybe, then, we'll finally get to see Kerry fall through the trap door with a noose around his neck, which he has deserved for quite sometime now.

Jon Cary
is a disgrace and a buffoon. More well known as a French farce, a sort of American Inspector Clouseau.
Hillary is a tired, worn out stick of furniture left over from the heyday of Bubba,and a socialist.
Ted Kennedy is an over sized, stuffed and puffed piece of humanity.
The anti-war crowd is over the hill and falling down even faster.
Jihad Jane's star power was shot to he11 during the 70's and she has now committed her last act of public suicide.
Obama is the new Hollyweird empty headed, anti-war celebrity who will fall as McGovern did.

Shameless plug: for all of you who have not had a chance to visit my blog, I have Chats with Hillary, Obama, J F'n Kerry, and Edwards for a light moment in your heavy day.
http://peppermintsplace.townhall.com

Is he missing something?
Perhaps Mr Limbaugh doesn't yet know this, but most Americans are now against the war and think it was a mistake.

The problem in Iraq isn't the war we're fighting, but the war Iraq is having with itself. Now maybe we can do something to stop it and maybe we can't, but it isn't a critical part of our national security. If we leave Iraq as a disaster that would illustrate the absurdity of nation-building -- if that should be news -- but the war in Iraq is taking too much oxygen out of politics at the moment. If there is a need to "do something" then let's impeach Bush and Cheney. Constitutional crises are always fun.


Red Tooth
Your sheer ignorance is most troublesome. Iraq is fighting a war with itself the same way Vietnam was - the terrorists are being supported by Iran and Syria just as the Vietcong were supported by China. A U.S. defeat in Iraq would have the same effect the anarchists and the Democrat party brought about in Vietnam - a country will be destroyed and millions of innocent civilians will be slaughtered. The big difference between Vietman and Iraq is that if we decide to humiliate ourselves again, the enemy will not just decimate their own country. Terrorists will follow us home and wreak havoc here.

To all those "sophisticates" who think we need to be more international in our politics and in our outlook, bear in mind that most European countries envy our success and wish us to be knocked down a peg. Radical Islamists want us destroyed along with Israel. We are not fighting for some kind of world supremacy here. We are fighting quite literally for our survival. No one else is - we befriend them at out peril. No one with an ounce of intelligence asks their enemies what they should do.

Loyal Demo wrote: loyalty requirements
The article did not state that at all, not even in vailed terminology. That is the problem with modern Democrats: they just go along with whatever the party or individual candidates do no matter how crazy or aggregious the ideas or actions or words may be. And the problem with the Republicans is they don't call the Democrats on it. Republicans are weak fighters and won't stand up to the lunacy of the Dems.

And by the way, the American laws were not originally designed to be changed as you state. It sounds like that old Clinton/Gore idea that the Constitution is a "living, breathing document". Not true either. The Constitution was put into place to "cement" inalienable rights, not change them as the society changes. It is "cemented" in place for our protection. If a society, like ours, loses its moral bearings, its solid traditions that have kept us together, then the Constitution is either not working (not likely) or not being allowed to function as it should. If that is what you were getting at then I have to take issue with your statements. If not, then what did you mean?

As a former Democrat and from a family of Democrats until recent years, I remember when Republicans and Democrats could have disagreements without being disagreable. They could also reach across the aisle and vote their conscience and not the party line. Also, I could remember a time when I could vote for the person who seemed best for the job at the time. Now, I cannot even do that with the Democrats. There isn't a Democrat that I can vote for at all! I would consider only one man nationally, Joe Lieberman, but he isn't a Democrat any longer and his own party abandoned him. How anyone can stay in the Democratic party any longer is beyond my ability to reason. But to say that John Kerry (not Carry) was right for doing what he did and saying what he said and where it was said and to whom it was said is just plain sedition. Why, you might ask yourself? It would have been like what Charles Limbergh did by voicing his support for Hitler and the Nazis before and during the war. The difference was that he was not a Senator or former presidential candidate. Public officials have a greater responsibility to this nation and cannot say things publicly that would harm or endanger this country. If you or I want to make those sort of statements, fine. Like them or not we do not hold a special position of power. A politicians words carry very heavy consequences. Case in point, when Ronald Reagan decided to be funny and said that he was going to commence bombing of the Soviet Union, it almost caused and international incident. It was all a joke. That just cannot be done, ever. What Kerry did, and what Al Gore did in Saudia Arabia last year was treason. We cannot let this kind of thing go on lightly, whether in time of war or not.

Kerry and others within the valueless Democratic party should not be supported by anyone, whether Democrat or Republican or Independent. If we start holding these nuts accountable for their recklessness, then and only then can the Democratic party begin to change internally back into a viable party that produces candidates that anyone can vote for, even across party lines.

What I would like to ask you is this: in your last paragraph you cited many of the crazy things coming from Democratic Congressmen/Senators; the very things that boil the blood of a lot of people in this country. You called the Democrats out for doing terrible things. My question: your on line name is "Loyal Democrat". Is that just a joke because you sure sounded like a sound thinking conservative (not necessarily a Republican but a true conservative) in that last paragraph.

Red Tooth Is Wrong
The Iraq War has been well worth it. Some people like Red Tooth say otherwise, but we just need to remind ourselves of all the following:

1. We removed from power a murderous dictator in Saddam, who had thumbed his nose at the international community when violating 17 UN resolutions and who during his reign used WMDs against his own people and engaged in torture and killings of his own people. If you go back to the Government documents at the time, the reasons stated for removing Saddam from power had to do more with Saddam’s continuous violations of UN arms control resolutions; and there has never been any dispute that Saddam did not comply.

2. We ended what were lines of cooperation that Saddan had with al Qaeda, including an agreemnt that contemplated future arms transfers. Iraq was the late beheader al Zarqari’s base of operations before the Iraq War. Saddam allowed terrorist training camps to operate in Iraq. Saddam was a financier of suicide bombers.

3. We ended the risk that Saddam would use or enable the use of WMDs against us. Every intelligence agency believed that Saddam had WMDs; translated Saddam government documents indicate that Saddam transported WMD to Syria right before the invasion; and Iraqi Air Force General Georges Sada has said the same thing. Saddam had WMDs in the past and used them on the Kurds killing thousands, and translated Sadam government documents establish that Saddam intended to get more WMDs once UN supervision wass reduced as a result of the corruption of the Oil-for-Food scandal. We ended the Oil-for-Food corruption at the UN.

4. We ended the risk that Saddam would develop nuclear weapons. British intelligence did report that Saddam was seeking yellow cake uranium in Niger, and British intelleigence has stood by that report to the present day. What is more, translated Saddam government documents establish that Saddam was in fact seeking to acquire yellow cake uranium in Niger, causing Christopher Hitchens to write aptly “so sorry everyone, but Saddam did go uranium shopping in Africa.” The irony of the New York Times reporting about the risk that someone could build a nuclear bomb from the transalted Saddam government documents posted on the internet is that the translated Saddam government documents show that Saddam wa perhaps a year away from having a nuclear devise. It is bad enough to deal with Iran's Ahmadinejad developing a nuclear weapons and not being stopped by the U.N.; Saddam would have spared no expense to be another member of the nuclear club seeing Ahmadinejad on the verge of having a nuclear weapon.

5. We have occupied the forces of radical jihad Islam over there in the Middle East, not over here in the United States. Since 9/11, we have not had a major terrorist attack in this country. We are fighting, among others, al Qaeda in Iraq. My older son is a US Army Lieutenant serving in Iraq, and the combat that his unit had last November was against what was an al Qaeda unit -- our guys did a nice job of wiping out that al Qaeda unit.

6. We have propelled the Iraqi people to a democratically adopted Constitution and democratically elected government; the “purple finger” will always be a symbol for the courage of the Iraqi people in embracing democracy. We are also aiding in the economic reconstruction of Iraq economically devastated by Saddam’s misrule. By aiding the establishment of democracy in Iraq, we open up another way for the Islam world to go, one that rejects the murderous Islamic radicalism that has afflicted the world in the last 30 years. All of this is the opposite of useless; it is the proper work for America as what Abraham Lincoln called the last best hope of Earth.

In the end, what is disastrous is the cowardly defeatism of the likes shown by Red Tooth.


Red Tooth wrote:
Americans are not against the war like you may think. Exit polls all across this country after the election and polls since the election debacle, and these polls were taken from across all party lines, showed that what the American people want is not withdrawal but swift, decisive action to get the job done. The American people want victory not cut and run strategy. It is the American people who know what we face.

Many in the media have all but forgotten how Americans felt after 9/11/2001, and over all that sentiment has not changed. Only the media has changed, as they seem to do. I know some men (and a few women) who are serving in Iraq. Their families are fully supportive of this war. And the news that comes home from these volunteers is one quite different from the bleak pictures that the media paints on a daily basis. I get my news directly from the front, and it doesn't look anything like what we see from the New York Times, The Washington com-Post, The Left Angeles Times, and the Chronicles of Narnia by the bay. If you want hype, if you want soap opera filth, then you can go on getting your news from these sources and you can go on believing that the war is not important to the American people any longer.

Have you heard the new effort to
get more votes?

There has been a law proposed to make college students register to vote in order to graduate.

It seems that the kids, fresh from the university's brainwashing propaganda machine, tend to not vote.

Just giving the kids the vote in 1972 did not suceed in making them "good citizens."

Perhaps the Left doesn't realize that when you convince the kiddies that their county is not worth fighting and dying for, they may also conclud it is not worth voting for either.

If the Left really wants to hold on to their lead on Capital Hill, they may wish to rethink how far they go in producing kids who hate their country. A handful are turning out to be activists, but the majority are turning out only to be apathetic.

So while we should not underestimate the Left, there is also much hope, but only if we act.

We must conduct a campaign to create more patriots.

This in my opinion, was one of Ronald Reagan's greatest strengths; that he was able to unite the country and rekindle people's natural in-born love of country. It was like magic, and is the missing ingredient in all politicians since.

It is unlikely that such inspiration will come out of a Globalist.

The Republicans need to be looking for a leader who loves his country and inspires the same patriotism in all who hear him speak.

If you want to see the country turn out to vote for a Repub, we will have to choose a man that is worth voting for.

I get tired of this phrase
"pandering to the base". It seems to imply that those who do it don't really believe in what they say to the base. In the case of Hillary and Obama, I think they certainly do believe just what their base believes.

Phil Byler wrote:
And don't forget that Saddam used the terrorist indirectly to get what he wanted, especially when it came to killing Jews in Israel. In fact, he paid a bounty price to any family whose sons or daughters martyred themselves killing Israelis in Israel.

When the US led coalition entered Bagdad and began rounding up Bathists, they found nearly 30 terrorists training camps on the outskirts of Bagdad, all with the approval of Saddam. This nonsense that because the US invaded Iraq we ended up creating terrorists where none existed before the war is simply not true. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Afghanistan and Pakistan have trained and continue to train soldiers to kill any and all infidels at any and all costs. You need to remember that one before you start pulling troops out from anywhere.

So, you go on, Phil, and tell it like it is. We need folks to stand up and tell it like it is, not how the media wants it to be.

If we lose this war, the media in this country would have played the biggest role in an American defeat. The Democrats only play up for the cameras and will do what the media wants. And the sad thing is they will accept a loss in this war for one reason alone: they hate Bush and this is all about making him look bad. That is all. Let's open our eyes people before our plane hits the mountain in front of us!

hackamore- Oh, she believes what
her base believes alright.

But she has demonstrated her willingness to say whatever it takes to get elected, regardless of what she believes.

We have to look at what she did when she had a little power in the national arena. Remember when her husband appointed her to overhaul the medical insurance system in the country, and we came THIS close to having socialized medicine?

This would be what we would have to look forward to with Hillary as President.

And I can guarantee you, it would not be just in healthcare.

And I also think that she would not be as effected by the polls as her husband was.

LD
You outdid yourself – very funny. “….wants to retain his privileged position as a rich woman's concubine.” LMAO

Please keep it coming.

Induendo, distortion, denial
John Kerry told the truth as he sees it. That's bravery, not treason. It's simply fact that America is becomming a pariah nation. Loving my country, it pains me to say so, as it must have pained Kerry. Members of the CIA have been indicted for kidnapping in Germany.

Another inconvenient truth is that a majority of Americans think Iraq was a mistake, between 60% and 70%. All those disloyal things lefties warned of before the invasion -- a likely civil war in Iraq -- all those things came true. Those liberals turned out to be more like Jeremiah than Cassandra. They were villified by their government but their predictions came true.

"every time Kerry uttered an America-bashing remark or expressed his willingness to compromise American sovereignty during the 2004" -- Limbaugh doesn't give an example of this (though a related quote is above). Either he's too lazy or examples don't exist.

This kind of dishonest column writing does not strengthen America's political institutions and weakens the country.


libgoman
Who cares what the decadent world thinks of us?
Eurabia is about done now with the Islamic fanatics taking over.
When it comes time when full warfare breaks out over there, those same countries will come begging for our help.
And for Jon Cary to be bashing his country oversees is despicable.

Limbaugh: Bashing Dems/Libs For A Living
If one were to go back and read the past dozen or so columns of Mr. David Limbaugh it would not be a stretch to come to the conclusion that this man absolutely detest Democrats and Liberals, or in other words people that dont think like him in his right wing conservative extremism.
Practically every one of his colums is some desultory rant focusing on his increasingly unhinged mental state about the emerging democratic takeover of the government.
My guess is that if the democrats win control of all three branches of the government in 2008,
Mr. Limbaugh will have to commited to the loony bin..

my 2 cents
From time to time I have talked about the site http://www.memri.org . This column and the response to it stirred a memory and I went there to check on it.

Go to the site and click archives and then click Special Dispatch and go to SD #661 of February 12, 2004. "Iranian News Agency Alleges that Presidential Candidate John Kerry sends E-mail message".

It's interesting reading, but I must state that it was not Kerry himself who sent the message but his office sent it. There is that degree of separation, and you all are course free to come up with your reasons for that.

Most of the leading dem candidates at this point seem to me to have too much baggage of one sort or another, and I think they (intelligent dems - that is NOT any oxymoron yet) eventually will have to wake up to that fact. I think there will be some dem. bloodletting, much to the delight of most of those who visit this site, and then I think that one name will pop up and here I go again.

Evan Bayh

He declared earlier and then withdrew because he was wasting his time (and money) trying to get any ink (and was SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE IT which is a BIG plus) but if all the tall dem trees get cut down by one another he might just still be there.

Promise - If it does come to pass I'll say "I told you so" in no uncertain terms.

If it doesn't I will either
1) Pull an Emily Latella - "Never mind" or
2) Forget I said it

libgoman
Peppermint has the right of it.

Check my blog for a story today on the Nanny-State of formerly Greabt Britain, now known as Britainistan seizing people's cars for the heinous crime of...

talking on the cell phone and not wearing your seat belt!

Also, check my blog for the story of the Frogs working (haha) trying to be able to SLEEP ON THE JOB!

So, when you ask us if WE G.A.F.F. about what the world thinks of us, be prepared for us to LLAMF!

Maybe we're just not nuanced enough. Calling Hanoi John...am I eating my snails right?

Easy solution.
There is an easy solution to all of this.

Rather than digesting without question what a columnist tells you, find out for yourself and then vote!


1 OF 3 AMERICANS AGREE NOW, 3 OF 4 WILL
NATIONAL DEBT IS NOW: on January 29: $8,686,542,446,617.56

THOSE RESPONCIPLE AND INVOLVED
SHALL NOW PAY THEIR SHARE.

William H. Rehnquist spoke for the court:
Both tax exemptions and tax deductibility are a form of subsidy that is administered through the tax system. A tax exemption has much the same effect as a cash grant to the organization of the amount of tax it would have to pay on its income.

The significance of this decision is often overlooked. If tax exemption is a form of subsidy, then church property tax exemption is a clear violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment. All that is necessary to make church property tax exemption a thing of the past is for an irate taxpayer who is tired of high taxes to file suit to force churches to pay their "fair share."

Tenth Circuit Court addressed, and held that "tax exemption is a privilege, a matter of grace rather than a right."

The question of tax exemption for churches is clear: the foundation has been laid for taxing church property and perhaps even church income.

As the budget deficits of the federal, state and local governments increase, the possibility of taxing church property also rises -- despite the long history of tax exemption.

We are sick and tired of the "Zionist-Movement" the cost of the "WAR" they demanded, the amount of holdings & investments rather then any amount of return to the community. The threat of Falwell to use 200,000 preachers to preach his message from the pulpit is not only wrong it is unlimited use of propaganda!

The millions spent on foolish campaigns designed to shape or change public opinion in regard to this or that: divorce, birth control, the falseness of the Darwinian theory, or almost anything in connection with science and history! The blather about saints and cures and bringing all to Jesus, the while taxes are evaded and the scummy politicians whom they endorse, or even nominate and elect to office, proceed to rob the public in favor of the corporations and churches whom they serve! No wonder ignorance, no wonder illusion, when those with power in the religious field knowingly delude and mislead the masses! The things told them! That it is important to vote for this or that crook; uphold religion; it is good for the people to go to war, to put religion in the schools, to give into the hands of these mental bandits the care and education of all children, so that they may be properly enslaved by religion! (A slave, in my opinion, is the man who does not think for himself. A man with knowledge is not powerless.) But always with suave and polished words.
How about a Robertson or Bush Whisper! God has told me, and I will tell you, and you shall follow and sustain me as my servant who am the servant of God! SURE!

One would think from that that the Churches were a branch of the Government, a public institution, whereas they are only semipublic, being under the control of a special group of patrons, and as such should be taxed and made to pay the same as any other self-aggrandizing corporation.

The State now should not permit them to go tax free, and should, should it not? enjoy and participate in any money-making of this nature, which is certainly no legitimate function of religion. Then look close at the MONEY!!

Well now, church buildings alone in America, without parsonages, investments, securities, schools, orphanages, hospitals and monasteries, are valued in the trillions. Investments such as in Defense etc, also will be in the trillions. Do they ever cough up in crisis,

No they just manage the money from the congregation they solicit it from. Lets call it Alms instead of Tyethings.America now represented by the money-mad leaders who are dictating not only the economics but the philosophy of the country and using the religionists to help them. Or might it be the fool led by fools.

We will sue for tax fairness due to the last six years ofChurch involvement in Politics, openly judging peoplewith a different political view, telling a congregation they must support the republican party, and support an unjust "WAR".

Now pay for it, I left the Church because I'm proud to be a Democrat, American, a Christian, but no longer a member of any denomination that supports corruption and/or WAR. BLAME THE PAT ROBERTSONS AND JERRY FALWELLS FOR INVOLVING CHURCH & STATE.

I pay Taxes for your injustice, now you will also.

I REQUEST THE ACLU TO TAKE UP SUCH ISSUE

FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL THOSE PAYING SUCH

COST !!


STOP MAD COWBOY DISEASE:

WHY WE HAVE BECOME HATED & WHY WE WILL NOT WIN !!

If any citizen were to make a statement recommending
assassination, we would be picked up and thrown into
a jail, or sent to guantanamo bay.

Why is it a complete out of his mind jerk, like this
raving maniac PAT ROBERTSON, can go around
recommending an assassination, foretelling the future,
stating GOD told him about an attack is coming.
We know he is not out of step with the White-House,
but shouldn't he also face criminal charges like anyone else would? At least put him in an institution.

OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW THERE IS A LIST A
MILE LONG OF "ZIONIST" THAT BELONG LOCKED UP..
The Rev. Jerry Falwell said that he and several leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention would mobilize evangelical churches to oppose steps to give up any more territory to the Palestinians.

To get out the word on Israel, Falwell said, "There are about 200,000 evangelical pastors in America, and we're asking them all through e-mail, faxes, letters, telephone, to go into their pulpits and use their influence in support of the state of Israel and the prime minister." Which any one attending a Church knows they have done so. Political messages from most every pulpit accross our nation in support of the republican party, president Bush policy, and in complete support of the WAR for Israels interest not Americas.. Now pay taxes on all tax free property..

This comes at a time when Israel is under pressure from both the World (UN) and some American Jewish groups to break an impasse in the peace efforts.

Democrats in Congress have moved quickly - and commendably - to strengthen ethics rules. But truly groundbreaking reform was prevented, in part, because of the efforts of the pro-Israel lobby to preserve one of its most critical functions: taking members of Congress on free "educational" trips to Israel.

The pro-Israel lobby does most of its work without publicity. But every member of Congress and every would-be candidate for Congress comes to quickly understand a basic lesson. Money needed to run for office can come with great ease from supporters of Israel, provided that the candidate makes certain promises, in writing, to vote favorably on issues considered important to Israel. What drives much of congressional support for Israel is fear - fear that the pro-Israel lobby will either withhold campaign contributions or give money to one's opponent.

Pro-Israel groups worked vigorously to ensure that the new reforms would allow them to keep hosting members of Congress on trips to Israel. According to the Jewish Daily Forward newspaper, congressional filings show Israel as the top foreign destination for privately sponsored trips. Nearly 10 percent of overseas congressional trips taken between 2000 and 2005 were to Israel. Most are paid for by the American Israel Education Foundation, a sister organization of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the major pro-Israel lobby group.

New rules require all trips to be pre-approved by the House Ethics Committee, but Rep. Barney Frank (D) of Massachusetts says this setup will guarantee that tours of Israel continue. Ron Kampeas of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported consensus among Jewish groups that "the new legislation would be an inconvenience, but wouldn't seriously hamper the trips to Israel that are considered a critical component of congressional support for Israel."

What the pro-Israel lobby reaps for its investment in these tours is congressional support for Israeli desires. For years, Israel has relied on billions of dollars in US taxpayer money. Shutting off this government funding would seriously impair Israel's harsh occupation.

One wonders what policies Congress might support toward Israel and the Palestinians absent the distorting influence of these Israel trips - or if more members toured Palestinian lands. America sent troops to Europe to prevent the killing of civilians in the former Yugoslavia. But when it comes to flagrant human rights violations committed by Israel, the US sends more money and shields Israel from criticism.

Congress regularly passes resolutions lauding Israel, even when its actions are deplorable, providing it political cover. Meanwhile, polls suggest most Americans want the Bush administration to steer a middle course in working for peace between Israelis and the Palestinians.

Consider, too, how the Israel lobby twists US foreign policy into a dangerous double standard regarding nuclear issues. The US rattles its sabers at Iran for its nuclear energy ambitions - and alleged pursuit of nuclear arms - while remaining silent about Israel's nuclear-weapons arsenal.

Members of Congress may not be aware just how damaging their automatic support for Israel is to America's interest. At a minimum, US policies toward Israel have cost it valuable allies in the Middle East and other parts of the Muslim world.

If Congress is serious about ethics reform, it should not protect the Israel lobby from the consequences. A totally taxpayer-funded travel budget for members to take foreign fact-finding trips, with authorization to be made by committee heads, would be an important first step toward a foreign policy that genuinely serves America.
FAIR TAX

OUR MORALITY, PRINCIPLES, INTEGRITY, ETHICS,
AND COMMON SENCE, HAS BEEN BARTERED OR
BROKERED AWAY BY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS
BUYING AND SELLING OUR GOVERNMENT..

THERE NOT ONLY IS A MANDATE, BUT AN OUT-RIGHT BATTLE GOING ON. WE WILL TAKE OUR
COUNTRY BACK. YOU ARE EITHER WITH US, OR AGAINST US. WE WILL FIGURE OUT WHICH YOU ARE.

Non-profit--better check wall street on that one....

WHO WILL BE NEXT IN THE WHITE HOUSE
THIS ADMINISTRATION AND PRESIDENCY IS
ABSOLUTELY THE WORST EVER. WHAT A MESS
LEFT FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENT.

THUS, WE CERTAINLY DO NOT NEED A PRESIDENT
THAT IS GOING THROUGH MENOPAUSE.
OR ONE IN FULL STEP WITH AIPAC & ISRAEL.
TO REPLACE HIM.

Liberals vs. Conservatives
The comments posted by those who identify themselves as liberal and/or Democrat will support the following:

By objective standards liberals are unscrupulous hypocrites. However, their rules of conduct are a reflection of their worldview, i.e., ethics are malleable, evolving according to necessity, whatever it takes to win. Kind of a "create your own adventure" outlook. Reality is what I say it is...today. And, don't forget: if you don't have a logical, well-reasoned argument, smear your opponent!

Liberals say and do whatever they can get away with, and with the complicity of the 80%-90% liberal MSM, they can get away with nearly anything. That includes clear acts of sabotage (Sandy Berger) and treason (NY Times, assorted US Senators and "personalities" openly supporting the enemy and undermining a wartime president) They always want to "move on" when caught red-handed, but the slightest alleged incident back to the dawn of time can be dredged up to smear a conservative.

Liberals don't fight fair, and conservatives cannot prevail against them without a large majority. The idea that we "can't stoop to their level" assures our defeat in the long run, because liberals are patient and relentless. Liberals also present a unified front, whereas conservatives are uncertain, unreliable allies.

Conservatives don't even support their president. I will trot out the standard discalimer here, and say I don't agree with everything he does. But I don't agree 100% with anyone. The point is, he was elected in preference to Gore and Kerry, men who see nothing wrong with betraying the country they were elected to lead! Mr. Bush isn't God or a king; he has to roll the dice on everything, and count on the uncertain support of the conservative portion of the public and the unreliable votes of his party.

As Winston Churchill said, we get the government we deserve.

Quick Notes
FYI, for those who feel the need to write (and continually repost) their generic "War and Peace" length comments, must people just skip over them.

Tanabear, the single fact that you believe our war against radical Islam is purely "propaganda" says more about you than any other comment you've ever made.

ANNOY THE RIGHT--THINK FOR YOURSELF
THE REAL DELEMIA OF AMERICAN POLITICS :
PARTISAN OR NON-PARTISAN POLITICS :

THE REAL DELEMIA OF AMERICAN POLITICS:

The delemia of Americans and American Politics
has nothing to do so much with are you a "Republican"
or are you a "Democrat". ( IT IS ARE YOU ACTUALLY
AMERICAN)

This Country that we all are/were so proud of,
was founded on the principles of "Christianity", we
have considered ourselves a "Christian--Nation".

There has been a movement in Washington for the
last 40 years, that likes to see us battling each
other, and in fact keeps such going to deter us
from some real reality. A reality that now has to be addressed by both parties. It will become the real issue in the near future, to draw our country folk back together as a governing force for America, Americans,
and the World to witness. The World realizes, but
will not be recognized by main stream media, or the
evil elements actually involved.
America is no longer recognized as a christian nation.
It is recognized as a Nation becoming controlled by
foreign lobbies such as AIPAC & Associates, that has
been undermined for the benefit of Israel, and the Jewish
faith.
We will either deal with it now, or we will deal with it
at the cost of our Nation as a Moral--Christian Country.
We have witnessed six years of this "zionist-movement"
leading our nation in the complete wrong dirrection for
America, and the rest of the "World".
In defiance of the American people's wishes, when push comes to shove, the U.S. government manages to support a hostile Jewish State.

In early March, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) held its forty-seventh annual conference in Washington. AIPAC's executive director spent twenty-seven minutes reading the "roll call" of dignitaries present at the gala dinner, which included a majority of the Senate and a quarter of the House, along with dozens of Administration officials.

On July 18, the Senate unanimously approved a nonbinding resolution "condemning Hamas and Hezbollah and their state sponsors and supporting Israel's exercise of its right to self-defense." After House majority leader John Boehner removed language from the bill urging "all sides to protect innocent civilian life and infrastructure," the House version passed by a landslide, 410 to 8.

AIPAC not only lobbied for the resolution; it had written it. As most speaches are written for our representatives presently.

Not surprisingly, most in Congress see far more harm than reward in getting in the Israeli lobby's way. "There remains a perception of power and fear that AIPAC can undo you in the most incomprehensible ways.

We will vote for a team that will now lead us as a Christian nation again, not a "Jewish regime-led by Israeli influence".

One America for Americans--EDWARDS & OBAMA !!

If you have doubts, do some research. The influences on both political parties:The control of most all major media sourses.OUR banking system, and financial institutions. Our Universities.The movie and television industries. The brokering of our food chain. etc etc etc.. Drug production, & cost. (Legal and illegal) Insurance companies, and holdings. Sports teams & gambling. Shopping mall developments.

Our government agencies have, but the information is then classified. Why?

HOW NAIVE DO YOU THINK WE ARE ??

TO THE 110 TH CONGRESS:

Your children's lives and the lives of your children's children, and your parents and others in your immediate circle need you to pay attention and fix the imbalance that currently exists in our capital. This country needs you to, through word and deed; re-establish the greatness that was once the United States of America. That greatness began with dialogue and the recognition of common cause by and between all people. Fail to restore the checks and balances and you will do so at your own peril.

THE BIGGEST AMERICAN JOKE RIGHT NOW :

" I BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT & ASSOCIATES"
Check it out, before you condemn this statement.



What's facts got to do with it?
Either the Left and Democratic base in this country are naive, believe "we the people" are naive or they indeed wish to do exactly has outlined in "Loyal Democrats" well written explanation? I don't have the answer to that question. We can only listen to what they say and write. We can only watch what their rear ends are doing.

I do know that the Left really is spoiled rotten but this country. Without all that this country has been and is today they would be little more than a grease spot in history.

While many inside and outside the USA believe we are the most powerful, freest and wealthiest country in history, the American Left believe that the USA IS the problem in the world.

The left attacks the capitalistic system directly by calling it pure evil or indirectly by wanting to tax it out of existence. This is the same capitalistic system that brought them the wealth that they live on while they blast the foundations on which our country is built.

Many have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow those on the left to live as they do, to speak their mind and remain protected by our Constitution. What does the left think of those that made that sacrific? They were naive, stupid brutes.

The left hates the military whether we are at war or not. They might use our military as police, garbage men, or rescue workers, but show them respect, support our military when in harms way, no way. To the left, as Kerry has so clearly stated, our military is made up of anti-social evil individuals that have no other path in life just by the definition of being military.

While every country and administration makes mistakes, contrary to the Left's propaganda, we are not the problem and they have none of the answers. Relative to history and today's facts on the ground our way of life and our system of government, with all its ugly bumps and warts, is still the single greatest hope for mankind and the Earth itself. You will never make the Left believe that.

Makoshark
Taking your excellent post a step further... I've come to truly believe liberalism has to be a mental disorder, and its practitioners little more than a lethal virus which will eventually kill its host (America) in the process of achieving its goals.

Hey... now there's an idea. Change the label "liberalism" to "Ebola-ism"!

Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded.

You need some "unrevised" history lessons and a cranialanalectomy.

Your hatred for GWB and all things conservative is palpable and I believe you are stuck on the "Dark Side" eternally.

Other than that... have a nice day!

IceDog
You are right about the long cut&paste posts.
If they post a link to it, someone MIGHT read it.

Muslims are applying Sharia law on their side of this culture war.
I think we should Banish these Anti-American demonstrators to some Islamic country.
If they want to take sides with the enemy then let them do it on enemy turf.

Primus54
Leave her on the Dark Side!

Tehran Kim is like the crazy old aunt that families lock in the attic at reunions so as to avoid potential embarrassments.

Icedog
You are so right! Nearly every comment more than 2 paragraphs gets ignored here. The self-importance of these people who write "books" amazes me.
It is so great, tho, to see some great conservatives standing up for the facts.
I can't understand how so many people can be blind to the danger we are in or the fact that we are in a long war. Is it the result of media or wishful thinking or blind hatred of Bush or what?

BUTCH
Oh, that's original. Blame Israel or the Jews.

What, Did you think of that all by yourself?

You know, when someone says "ANNOY THE RIGHT -- THINK FOR YOURSELF" it helps to have an idea or a point that isn't a major part of the standard Leftist mantra.

Did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons we don't like Hezbollah and Hamas is that THEY HAVE KILLED AMERICANS???!!! ESPECIALLY Hezbollah (or are you too young to remember a little incident in Beiruit in the early 80s?) (Don't know how old you are, so forgive me if you are over 30.)

Did it also ever occur to you that where Israel generally attacks specific targets with specific goals in mind (usually capturing or killing the brains behind some terrorist attack or other), Hamas and Hezbollah blow up commuter busses, wedding parties, and S'Barros restaurants? And don't give me that Bravo Sierra about "well that's the only way they can fight back." They could, if they really cared about living peacefully, simply STOP FIGHTING! Israel has no desire to wipe out all the Muslims in its territory, nor does it oppress the Muslims that choose to act like decent human beings. Or weren't you aware that there have been Muslims in the Knesset? Or that there are entire cities of Muslims within the 1947 borders of Israel (not the "occupied territories", but actually in Israel itself)? Or that the one of the stated goals of Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist groups is the destruction of the Jewish State?

Whatever influence Israel has over American politics has nothing to do with our dislike of terrorist organizations. It wasn't Israelis jumping up and down and cheering at the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon on September 11, 2001.

HJG

PS: Oh, by the way, I'm Catholic, I'm helping a Jewish friend of mine convert to Catholicism, and I've never met anyone from Israel. And the only other Jews I know are Liberals who take your Lock-step approach toward Israel.

Never Let A Fool Go Unchallenged
Mr. Limbaugh makes the best point in the 3rd paragraph. Our universities are staffed by the old 60's anti-war, anti-America hippies, and the brainwashed victims of same. Our media is run by the same leftist America haters that are responsible for America's Vietnam experience; a war lost not by the military and not on the battlefield, but right here at home by our own dhimmicrat politicians.
Now this same crowd is hoping for the white house in 08.

Who's fault is that?

It's my fault- and anyone else like me who've ignored the leftists all those years. We've sat back and tolerated their words, deeds and efforts to undermine the foundations of our country. We've allowed them to go unchallenged in their marches, demonstrations and protests. We've kept silent while they exercised their free speech rights, and let our's atrophy.

No more. Never let these fools go unchallenged again.

Red Tooth, Butch
You are fools. And from now on, when you or people like you go to D.C. for your little anti-war hissy fits, I'll be there. Look for the ugly guy off to the side that looks like he would love to stomp you.

Unhinged repubs/cons part V
As a liberal democrat reading some of the stuff that right wingers say about us and actually beleive makes me wonder about their mental health and sanity..I shake my head in amazement at their mendacity.

In a continuing series here some of todays paranoid delusional lunacy about dems/libs
from townhouse regulars:

"By objective standards liberals are unscrupulous hypocrites. However, their rules of conduct are a reflection of their worldview, i.e., ethics are malleable, evolving according to necessity, whatever it takes to win. Kind of a "create your own adventure" outlook. Reality is what I say it is...today."

"Liberals say and do whatever they can get away with, and with the complicity of the 80%-90% liberal MSM, they can get away with nearly anything. That includes clear acts of sabotage (Sandy Berger) and treason (NY Times, assorted US Senators and "personalities" openly supporting the enemy and undermining a wartime president."

"Liberals don't fight fair, and conservatives cannot prevail against them without a large majority. The idea that we "can't stoop to their level" assures our defeat in the long run, because liberals are patient and relentless."

"But these so-called liberal extremists -- many of them Sixties radicals -- just happen to dominate our universities, and their sympathizers "own" the mainstream media. There are far more of them in government and politics than you think, and their impact is significant. One of them would be commander in chief today but for some 120,000 votes in Ohio, or the noble efforts of certain Swift Boat patriots to highlight the other side of his military record."

"Hillary is a tired, worn out stick of furniture left over from the heyday of Bubba,and a socialist. Ted Kennedy is an over sized, stuffed and puffed piece of humanity. The anti-war crowd is over the hill and falling down even faster.
Jihad Jane's star power was shot to he11 during the 70's and she has now committed her last act of public suicide. Obama is the new Hollyweird empty headed, anti-war celebrity who will fall as McGovern did."


Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded.

Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded.

Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded.

Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded.

"Tehran Kim
With each post, you demonstrate yourself to be little more than a shill for the socialists that want to take this country down the path of destruction of the core principles under which it was founded."

"I've come to truly believe liberalism has to be a mental disorder, and its practitioners little more than a lethal virus which will eventually kill its host (America) in the process of achieving its goals."

"While many inside and outside the USA believe we are the most powerful, freest and wealthiest country in history, the American Left believe that the USA IS the problem in the world."

"The left hates the military whether we are at war or not. They might use our military as police, garbage men, or rescue workers, but show them respect, support our military when in harms way, no way. To the left, as Kerry has so clearly stated, our military is made up of anti-social evil individuals that have no other path in life just by the definition of being military."











Bubba Shuv: a bit of advice..
get help soon...you are a very sick individual.

preach it brother
Finally someone who gets it.
Phil Byler I just wanted to thank you and to again encourage you to continue your efforts to conter all the false statements.


Butch
There is nothing as as SKIPPED OVER - as long irrelevant cut-and-paste posts. Nor do they indicate that the individual who posted them "thought about" ANYthing for himself.

Not all there
Limbaugh criticized Kerry for calling the US a pariah nation. I defended Kerry.
Peppermint wrote: "Who cares what the decadent world thinks of us?" -- If you don't care, why complain about what Kerry says?

Jimbo wrote: "By objective standards liberals are unscrupulous hypocrites." -- He gives no examples because there are none. If you want to be a hypocrite, you must be Republican (e.g. calling for increases in energy research days after cutting funding for said research).

and

"That includes clear acts of sabotage (Sandy Berger)" -- My understanding is that Berger took a few secret documents home with him to work over the weekend (in violation of the laws regarding said documents) while Oliver North (hero of TH) distroyed vast quantities of documents to thwart a federal investigation.

Anti-war
There is a difference between being against a war that is deemed either unnecessary or unjust and being against all wars. Just because someone is against a particular war does not make them a pacifist. It is time that congress put in writing the reasons for going to war and that we stop fighting wars of limited goals with rules of engagement that endanger our troops for instance the Iraqi people are considered our enemy. If they are not our enemy then we shouldn't be fighting them. If someone shoots you from a mosque you cannot shoot back at the mosque. In WWII in Italy at Casino the Germans were using a Monestary to attack us from. We bombed and destroyed the monestary. We can do no such thing in Iraq and therefore should not be fighting there. The same was true of Viet Nam. The Vietnamese were not considered our enemy but Communism was. Then we should have been fighting in the North instead of the South because that is where the Communists were. You cannot win a war where the people you are fighting are not identified as the enemy and where you tie the hands of the troops with so many rules about how they must engage so as to endanger them. For a conflict of limited goals the war powers act can be used and the engagement should be in and out and over with quickly but for full scale war we should only fight people we are willing to destroy completely and call them, all of them the enemy, otherwise we are doomed to lose. As to reasons like WMD. If Iraq's weapons posed any theat to us it was in the first Gulf War where he not only had them but us as his target and then he didn't use them. If he didn't use them against us when he had his best chance, why would he later when it would have been much more difficult?

Vic’s first law of screed reading
To all of you libtards who post the never ending screeds that you have copied from some leftwing site like the collected works of Karl Marx. We don’t read these never ending posts, we just get blisters on our fingers moving the scroll wheel past anything with your name on it that goes past the bottom of the screen. The longer your post is the more likely it is to being ignored. Expressed mathematically this is:

PR = kle^-LP where:

PR is probability of reading
Kl is a conversion factor that increases the more conservative the poster and decreases to 0 as the poster gets more liberal.
e is the natural log used because this is a natural function.
^-LP is e raised to the negative LP power
LP is the legnth of the post in lines of text. It increases from o for 1 line and approaches infinity as the number of lines goes off the bottom of the page.

liberalgoodman writes:
"My understanding is that Berger took a few secret documents home with him to work over the weekend (in violation of the laws regarding said documents) while Oliver North (hero of TH) distroyed vast quantities of documents to thwart a federal investigation."
- - - - - - - - -

And, your understanding would be wrong....

Left Angle
Re your Friday, February, 02, 2007 1:23 PM post:

I wanted to thank you for pasting my comments to Tehran Kim not once... but FIVE times! I love the additional publications... just like repetitive advertising.

As to the rest of your pasted comments, I don't see why you've got your panties in a bunch... other than it is hard to refute the truth of liberal behaviors.

Maybe this is an example of the wisdom of the cliche':... "the truth huts"!

You have a nice day, too! :-)

Correction
That should be "hurts", not "huts"... :-)

Primus: that was a TH tech problem
if you really sit down and read that stuff, i'd say a lot of your guys from the right are not playing with a full deck..they are "out there" lmao

trouble is I'm willing to bet not one of them "knows" a actual liberal democrat and even if they do I'm willing to bet that none of them come anywhere near that bs that are writing.

I know I and any of the dems i know are not...

that why its hillarious reading that bs..

have a great weekend..

LA
One of my best friends is a liberal democrat... and she believes every left-leaning talking point, every dire prediction of man-made global warming, thinks GWB dropped the ball on Katrina (actually thinks FEMA should have been the FIRST RESPONDER!), and believes most of the troubles with the radical Islamists can be negotiated as soon as they learn to reach a "higher level of consciousness"!

I kid you not... she actually talks this way. I should add that she is sweet & well-intentioned... believes in a "Higher Power" and would reach out to help anyone truly in need. So no, I don't think it is unfair to say that there are a great number of Democrats that are just as "out there" as we depict here on TH, nor do I think most of them are without any redeeming qualities. They just seem to have this real blind spot in seeing the world as it is... not just as they wish it to be.

(Shhhhh!) Besides... if you and I were to be perfectly honest, we both take great enjoyment out of beating each other over the head with this stuff!

Have a great weekend, too!


Left Angle writes:
It is funny that you spend your time reading what Conservatives are writing. My hope is that logic will find its way to you through exposure. You already have the disease if you are looking at what conservative write and think we are off base. Nothing could be more maddening than listening to the old lie that liberals care and conservatives are crazy, war-mongers.

The hope I have is that you may see the light from your exposure to truth.

Keep reading and you may come around to the "right" side of life.

Primus: It's a great way to kill time...
during the day..besides, many people i know really have zero interest in politics..you know you start talking about it and they start getting this vacant look in their eyes, like
they are bored sh*tless..lmao

but yeah youre right I enjoy the battle..it's entertaining and interesting...

I talk to you later..ITS MILLER TIME!!!

Once again have a great weekend..

PEACE OUT.

Primus54 wrote:
I was born and raised in Berkeley, CA and grew up around all the ideas of liberals. In fact, you do not grow up amidst that sort of stuff without it affecting you. I was very much a believer. I used to go to SF protests against R.Reagan, I used to believe in all the theories about conservatives, and I was even a member of a local teamsters political action committee. I was a full-fledged member. I was also a committed believer in Jesus Christ.

It took a few years but I finally got it right. Now I cannot believe that I used to think that way. I believe this: that liberals who really are thinking people, and they are out there, will look within and see, as time passes; as they mature, that the whole modern liberal movement is bankrupt entirely.

It is great that many libs want to help the poor, or seek the greater good, but their methods and ideas to accomplish these things are all messed up. I know, I used to be there. It just takes time and maturity to get past liberalism. I am approaching my 50s and it took me until my mid-30s before I came around. Give them a chance.

Back on topic
Clearly, last November OUGHT to have been a pretty loud wake-up call to the Republican Party.

So far, some in Congress seem to have heard it.....John Kyl and Mike Pence, for instance, but John Boehner for sure, and maybe even Mitch McConnell, seem to be sleeping right through it. Mitt Romney gets it and I suspect Guiliani does as well. Unless the former rest control of the agenda from those for who believe incumbency is as protective as tenure, the Republican Party does need to worry re: '08.

Get back on the message that produced the Reagan and Gingrich '94 landslides. You're letting the predominantly El Cubo media run the agenda. Bush does have more pure leadership cajones than any President since Reagan, although he does have a hard time communicating his way out of a paper bag.

There is no "hardness" to the Democrat congressional majorities and I don't see anything that tells me that anymore than 30% of America is dead-set to elect a Democrat to the White House in '08. Just like any other election for the past 30 years. A lot can be easily changed in two years.

Just get your priorities back in focus.....it ain't your power and your perks.....it's setting a vision for America that MOST Americans will relate to.

Someone above says 70% of Americans are against the war......my take on it is that 70% of Americans are actually against "losing" the war. Half of that 70% would evaporate in a heartbeat if we could only learn that you don't prosecute a war by using our Armed Forces a beat cops.


InHimalone
Interesting you mention SF. My liberal friend lived there for 16 years and got her MBA at Berzerkely!

We have similar stories... I was a lib during the end of Vietnam and through part of the Carter fiasco, but Reaganism cured me.

For most, Winston Churchill had it correct when he said: "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, but any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brain."

I'm oughta here!

Good weekend to all! (Yeah... even you too, Tehran Kim!). ;-)

We gave Hamas a state...
I don't see the harm in giving the democrats a term. Four carteresque years, then we can get back to business with a new republican landslide.

Bubbashuv
"Mr. Limbaugh makes the best point in the 3rd paragraph. Our universities are staffed by the old 60's anti-war, anti-America hippies, and the brainwashed victims of same."

Of course they are. There were a heckuva lotta PHD's acquired during the 60's and early 70's, often in such useful sciences as Philosophy, Anthropology, etc., by people who just kept on going to school to keep their student deferments alive until they were finally too old to draft. There aren't too many jobs for people with such specialties other than academia.

Heading off the standard lib attack/reply, yes, including the poly-sci types that inhabit BOTH parties.

If I were really cynical, I might suggest that such people might secretly feel ashamed of using Dad's $$ to shirk their duty for all those years and have had to convince themselves ever since that what they did was really courageous, not cowardly, and are still trying to convince themselves today, which would, of course, require ignoring any and all evidence that does not support said delusion. But then, I'm not that cynical, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and simply assume they are real smart about a few things and not so smart about a lot else.

To Mariner
I don't dispute most of your post about the liberals but the way the draft worked was a little different. You could only maintain a 1Y deferment through high school to a certain age (21 I believe). At my high school we actually had someone who had tried flunking out so many times so he could maintain a deferment. He got drafted out of high school. Later when I was in the Navy at USNNPS in Bainbridge Maryland at least half of the section I was in were college graduates who had entered the navy after their initial BS. They became subject to the draft after the first 4 years. Note that the section above me (10) all of the people were college graduates.

To Tanabear
I just read your 9:22 AM post right now because I work for a living. You attempt to provide specific responses to my 7:46 AM post. The bottom line is that you have your facts wrong at every turn. You live in a Kos fantasy world.

1. You are wrong that Saddam was not in violation of 17 UN resolutions if he did not have WMDs. Where do you get that idea? Saddam was found to be in violation. The UN resolutions went back to Saddam's failure to observe terms of the Kuwait ceasefire and failure to cooperate with U.N. arms inspectors. And in any event, Saddam did have WMDs; there was a reason for his playing games with U.N. arms inspectors.

2. You are very wrong that Saddam did not have lines of cooperation with al Qaeda. Saddam had an agreement with al Qaeda. Try reading Lawrence Wright's "The Looming Tower." The agreement included a provision contemplating future arms transfers. It was also reflected in the translated Saddam government documents.

3. You are wrong that Saddam did not have WMDs. He did; and he used some of them against the Kurds killing thousands. Do you pretend that did not happen? There were some WMD munitions found in Iraq after the invasion, but Saddam's stockkpile was moved to Syria shortly before the invasion according to Iraqi Air Force General Georges Sada and translated Saddam government documents.

4. We did not support Saddam in the 1980's and never have. We did have contacts with Saddam back then because of his war with Iran at a time revolutionary Islamic Iran was all but at war with us. Ever hear about the Embassy hostage crisis in the last part of Jimmy Carter's Adminsitration? In any event, with terorist training camps and the beheader al Zarqawi operating in Saddam's Iraq, how difficult do you think it would have been to pass on WMDs to them? Bush connected the dots, just as he was advised to do by the 9/11 Commission.

5. Saddam did attempt to acquire yellow cake uranium from Niger. Your denial is hysterically funny given that British intelligence has stood by its report to the present day, rejecting the forged documents argument you make, and given what the translated Saddam government then revealed. The latter is why Christopher Hitchens wrote "so sorry, everyone, but Saddam did go uranium shopping in Africa." You leftists just never could adjust to the truth and instead continue to mumble about supposed forged documents even after that nonsense was shown to be wrong. The truth, that Sddam did seek to buy yellow cake uranium in Niger, supported the decision to remove Saddam from power.

6. You are idiotically wrong to deny that we have occupied the forces of radical Islam in Iraq. So what if on 9/11 no one attacked us? The radical Islamists know the stakes in Iraq, the radical Islamists recognize the Iraq War as the major front in the struggle between rdical jihas Islam and the West, and the radical Islamists including al Qaeda are in Iraq. Do you want to argue about this with my older son, a US Army Lieutenant serving in Iraq, who can tell you that you don't know what you are talking about?

7. You are a fool to say that we have created people who hate the U.S. by removing Saddam from power. Are you so dumb as to think that radical Islamists hate us only because we removed Saddam from power? Radical Islamists have been attacking the U.S. for 30 years because of who we are and what we represent.

8. You are wrong to disparage the fledgling Iraqi democracy. We have not brought to power Iranian backed terrorist groups. The Iraqi people voted to adopt a written Constitution and have voted in power their current leaders. That has meant a Shiite majority in government, but those in government are not to be confused with the Shiite militias. To be sure, the Iraqi government does need to get the Shiite militias as well as the Sunni insurgents under control with the ultimate oibject of disbanding them; we should have taken out al Sadr years ago. But every day, the Iraqi government is functioning; the factions in the Iraqi government have reached agreement on sharing oil revenues. Also, the Iraqi economy is booming, having been freed of Saddam's ruinous rule; the Kurdish north quite is peaceful. I suppose, however, that a leftist such as you, Kimberly, would prefer a Stalin-like authoritarian leader, like Saddam.

It Will Take Another Attack
I, too, worry that we'll put a liberal like Obama or Clinton in office- I think it's highly likely. If it happens, our fight will be bloodier and longer, but we will at least understand that we are in one- and what it's about.

Caw! Caw! The shrill bird strikes again
"Let's Chat;" said the candidate, seated by the wood-burning fireplace (pumping greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere), and the view-ers sat rapt at the thought of a gracious-lady super-star president.

But the real Lady Shrillary was not to be kept down.

This week her Caw-ness was at it again, bashing the war and promoting socialized healthcare; and moving as far out on the limb of the Leftie Nutberger Tree as her weight could be borne.

But hedging her bets, her Shrillness said today that "no option can be taken off the table" in regards to Iran and it's nuclear ambitions.

Her flipping and flopping is making me a little dizzy.

I wonder if her hope is to make us so confused we might pull the lever for her, just by mistake!

But no such luck, Senator! I have come prepared. I brought my Dramamine!

Left Angle: Do you know anything?
Yes, Limbaugh does speak out against the liberals and the Democrats most vociferously because they give him and all other commentators fodder for the pen. The utter stupidity displayed by the left and the Demon-crat party must be exposed. So he does, and he does a complete and thorough job of it. Let me ask you this: can you disagree logically with anything that he writes about honestly? I think a truthful person would be forced to say: no.

But, the Dems cannot and will not control all three branches of the government: no one can. The judiciary is not an elected office and is not held by Dems, Repubs, or Indies (unfortunately some Sup. Ct. Justices are Socialists and left-wing nut jobs and should not be in the positions they are in). Only the presidency and both houses of congress can be filled with brain dead, bankrupt Demon-crats, but let's hope and pray that the country hasn't lost its collective mind by electing anymore Dimwit-crats.

My hope is in the fact that people will become so disillusioned with the bad job that the newly elected Dems will do that they will be bounced by 2008. Of this I am certain.

Now if we can get the Republicans to be more fiesty and mean like the Dems on the issues that are right and that matter.

Phil Byler wrote:
I agree with everything you told Tannabear. He is not dealing with a full deck, first of all, so don't waste too much time and effort with him.

But, I must point two things out. First, you forgot to mention that Saddam used WMDs in his war with Iran back in the 1980s. He used them extensively when the Iranians looked as if they were gaining the upper hand. He also used them against Shiite apponents, not just the Kurds.

The last point I have to give to Tannabear. We not only supported Saddam but we quietly turned out back when he was ushered into power. And we left him alone because he was anti-Soviet. The old adage is now coming back to haunt us: "our enemy's enemy is not necessarily our friend".

"Left" and the War
This tendency to 'blame' the anti-war sentiment on the left is misleading. Many of us who opposed the invasion - even before March 2003 - are not left, but have some common sense.

We knew, for example, that Osama bin laden was a sworn enemy of Saddam, viewing him as n secular infidel. We knew that Saddam, for all his evil, had nothing to do with 9/11. We knew that the inspection for WMDs had not been completed. We knew that women were freer in Iraq than in most Moslem nations - that there was no requirement to wear a burqua, that women were prominent in university life, etc. (I've heard that there was a higher percentage of women engineers in Iraq than anywhere else in the world.) We knew that Christians under Saddam were protected. We knew that the Shia faction was the majority - the same Islamic sect as dominates Iran - and that if it gained control Shariah (Islamic)law likely would be enforced. We strongly condemned Saddam but also were aware that (like Tito years ago) only a strong arm could keep Iraq together. It had been put together by Britain years ago, with little recognition of religious and ethnic conflicts.

Why did we go to war in Iraq? Mainly because a group of ex-Trotskyites had the ear of Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush (Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, etc). They convinced Bush & Co that America had an obligation to spread 'democracy' by force, the sort of 'world domination' thinking that typified Trotsky. Many of them were also strongly motivated by their loyalty to Israel. They saw Saddam as a threat to Israel (he gave $25,000 to Palestinian families who lost a member as a 'martyr'). Add to this several other factors: arrogance, ignorance, oil, corporate profits, and perhaps Bush's desire either to 'out-do' his Dad and go to Bagdad or seek revenge for the alleged plot of Saddam to murder Bush Sr.

If the Republicans keep attacking the Democrats for resistance to the war, they will lose in 2008. The American people are fed up with that war. I will not vote for any Republican who favors it (e. g., Guiliani, McCain, Romney, Hunter, etc.) Senator Hagel is looking pretty good to me at the moment. Maybe Mark Warner could be drafted.

Keep smiling.

the left is formidable
You're right, the left is formidable. Not so much because of numbers, but because of tactics. I've seen some amazing things go unquestioned when it comes to certain Democratic candidates getting "elected".

I can't sit down and prove this, but, Democratic volunteers have made their way into places such as nursing homes, group homes for mentally impaired, and "assisted" residents in filling out their ballots. And then, you've all heard of the already deceased voters.

I guess you have to ask, "Which battles do we fight?" Is there enough resources to "police" these activities?

It's a battle to win the heart, as well. Surely, the public who votes the Democratic ballot will someday see the error of these tactics, let alone the error of self-destructive policy.

Roy
The only thing you seem to know is the standard repertoir of stale Leftist rhetoric.

You seem totally ignorant of the scope and nature of this war. Regardless of your personal feelings in the matter, IslamoNazis are not going to just go away because you want them to.

This war is being waged Worldwide, in all parts of Europe, asia and Africa. Who or how the war started is lost in several centuries of history. Attempts to drag America into this war also date back many decades. America was formally dragged into this war when Carter showed a yellow streak and failed to respond to the Iran Embassy attack. The al-Qaeda attack on 9/11 forced America to fight back or be slaughtered like sheep. Blame at this date is irrelevant. Libs who have dramatized this war for politics and delude themselves about gaining power if Republicans loose a war can't seem to grasp the fact that America will become part of a Caliphate if we loose this war and nearly all male Americans will be punished and executed for denying Allah. Iraq is an important battlefield in the WOT. A retreat from Iraq would betray millions of trusting allies and leave them to be tortured and slaughtered.
It would surrender control of Iraqi oil to Iran and greatly enhance our enemy's power. The land would eventually need to be retaken at a higher cost in life because none would dare be our Ally after we betrayed all who trusted us before.
While you Libs plan surrender please be aware IslamoNazis intend to conquer in the Biblical sense using the Koran.
Have you noticed whenever the body of anyone captured alive by IslamoNazis is found there is evidence of extensive torture? Information is not the object and nothing but death will end it. The true believer thinks he will be rewarded in Paradise for every pain he inflicts on an Infidel. Noncombatants often purchase Infidel captives so they can punish and kill them to obtain rewards in Heaven. Anyone who does not own a firearm would be easy to capture alive.
This war won't end in Iraq. It will take several decades more to end this war. What can end in Iraq is any trust of National Security in the hands of Democrats. They have two years and if they fail the Democrat Party is HISTORY.

Repeal 22nd Amendment
David makes a very serious point. We are engaged in a long and difficult global war brought on by Radical Islam. The 22nd Amend. states "no person shall be elected to office of the President more than twice", passed in 1947, ratified by states in 1951. Space doesn't permit listing all the reasons to support its repeal. Suffice it to say many do. In fact there have been bi-partisan bills entered in Congress for that purpose. Recently for example a bill supported by among others Steny Hoyer(D-Md), Barney Frank (D-Mass), Henry Hyde (R-Ill), Geo. Sensenbrenner(R-Ws)and many other Dems/Repubs.

Its a stretch to think passage and ratification of such repeal could be accomplished in time for the 2008 elections. We are in a time of rapidly accelerating events and depending on "how this war goes" America could very well be looking with favor on Pres. George W. Bush versus any one of those Democrats now running for President.

David L. is right America for better or worse is about to "change horses in the middle of the stream". America better chose right to see that the right man "saddles up" for President in '08.


Phil Byler
Phil I just have to encourage you! Dont change a thing and keep doing what you're doing! I have been dumbfounded in the way the fringe has moved public opinion so far against this war. I think people like you are one of the keys to reminding people of the greatness of who we are and why we fight thank you!

Also Limbaugh is right on these antiwar people must be taken serious and confronted when ever posible.

Roy
You made a good point but didn't take it all the way out to its logical conclusion. Yes, Saddam and Osama Bin Laden are not allies, never have been. But they used each other to get what they wanted. Osama is no ally to Musharik (spell?)either, the leader of Pakistan, but Bin Laden has used and continues to use Pakistan as a training ground and as a staging area.

Saddam was the same. He allowed Al Qaeda into his country but kept them on a tight leash. He used them for his dirty work in places like Gaza, Lebannon and other places. My classmate and dear friend works in Israel for the state department. They know of and have known for years that Saddam used the terrorists indirectly to do his dirty work against Israelis in Israel and abroad.

Finally, you and the left don't seem to get the fact that we did not invade because of weapons of mass destruction alone. That was one case made but not the only. We did not invade because we thought Saddam had something to do with 9/11. President Bush was very clear about why we invaded, but that has been lost in the noise that the left continues to make. We invaded because Saddam was a clear and present danger, because Iraq is at the center of the middle east and because Saddam was the main threat to regional stability. Although the place is a mess now, any war ever in history has had this phase. War is never pretty but time and focus change things. In time, the invasion of Iraq will show that Democracy, tentative now, can and will work to help change the face of the middle east. That is why we invaded.

I would heartily recommend that you put away your anger for a minute and think about why we are really there, not about what you have been told by the rabidly leftist press that hates Bush and anything he says or does. There is no balance in the press. Use your own mind to think this through.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.