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Friday, December 29, 2006
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Iraq, Iran and Democrats
by David Limbaugh
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As the end of the year always occasions retrospectives, prospectives and resolutions, it might be a worthwhile exercise to consider our experiences with Iraq as a guide to what might happen with Iran, especially since Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's saber rattling has reached a fever pitch.

While comparisons to Hitler (and the world's reaction to him) are painfully trite anymore, it's hard not to notice parallels between Hitler and his apologists and Ahmadinejad and the stubborn appeasers today.

We used to review the world's response to Hitler, uniformly condemn his Neville Chamberlain appeasers and smugly assure ourselves that we would never again ignore such clear signs of malignant aggression. "Never again" would we tolerate the type of infernal anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust.

But the Iranian president is a professed anti-Semite dedicated to exterminating Jews, he's a devout enemy of the West and freedom, and is quite unapologetically clear about his sinister aims concerning Israel and America, though he mostly pretends he is pursuing nuclear technology for legitimate reasons.

Yet liberals in the State Department and elsewhere -- mostly in the Democratic Party -- still don't seem to get it. They can't quite get their arms around the reality that unappeasable evil exists in the world.

They believe we can reason with despots, negotiate with terrorists and tame tyrants through tepid sanctions. Even when Ahmadinejad mocks the sanctions and defiantly pronounces he is proceeding on course, full speed ahead, the appeasers refuse to yield to their lying ears.

How can this nation possibly consider turning over the reins to politicians with such a recklessly misguided mindset? How can it consider giving the Democratic Party control over both the legislative and executive branches in 2008, notwithstanding the Republicans' regrettable performance on domestic spending and immigration?

If we're smart, we'll treat the Democrats' approach to Iraq as instructive on how they would approach Iran and other aspects of the war on terror and how they can't be trusted with national security.

Democrats would have us believe they are bullish on national security and as tough on terror as conservative hawks. They tell us they are tough, but "smart," which is a clever rhetorical device to disguise their consistent softness on terror -- opposing all the tools to prosecute the war and their absence of a plan on Iraq, other than empty criticism.

But why not? Through the miracle of modern propaganda, they have avoided accountability both for opposing the war in Iraq and supporting it. Who says they can't have it both ways?

Remember that Democrats were the last to believe (and probably never did believe) we should take action against Saddam Hussein. They opposed the war until the last minute, when they were coerced, through public opinion, to support the war resolution.

It's easy to dismiss their appeasement mindset now since we haven't confirmed Saddam had new stockpiles of WMD and because we've had so much difficulty in the post-regime-change phase of the war. But don't forget that Democrats were initially opposed to the war even when they were thoroughly convinced Saddam had WMD and was pursuing more .

But after supporting the war, they didn't have the character to stand by their decision once things started going badly, or at least when they realized they could make political hay by reneging on their decision to support the war.

That's when they began their lies about Bush's alleged WMD lies. They were duped, they say, into supporting the war. But forget the alleged lie issue for a moment. What their statements imply is that they would have happily supported the war had we been correct (and we still might have been) that Saddam had WMD.

But haven't they also told us, in effect, that they wouldn't have supported the war no matter what we believed about WMD because their clairvoyance revealed to them we would be greeted not as liberators, but occupiers, and that the situation would deteriorate into civil war because of sectarian conflict?

Just going on the Democrats' words alone, then, we find they opposed the war when the evidence was clear Saddam was a WMD-wielding global menace, and they supported the war when the evidence was clear Saddam was a WMD-wielding global menace. They opposed the war believing we would be greeted as occupiers, not liberators, and they supported the war believing we would be greeted as occupiers, not liberators.

Through the Democrats' approach to Iraq and the war on terror generally, we know they are untrustworthy, unreliable and ill equipped to guide the ship of state through wartime waters. Even if they weren't duplicitous, they simply cannot grasp the evil nature of our enemy.

Among the many lessons we learn from Iraq, these should be at the top of the list.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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If TODAY'S Traitorous DEMS were in power
during WWII, we'd all be speaking Japanese or German by now and our Jewish population would be decimated. America would quite possibly be a Japanese slave colony with our women being raped on the streets at will. Liberal Democrats are spineless, effeminate wimps who have forfeited all rights to government by betraying American troops. To cure America of the scourge of Liberalism, the GOP should move to institute a mandatory 2-year draft for all 18-year-old males and females fresh out of high school so that the highly CONSERVATIVE US military can re-educate their brainwashed, Liberal, indoctrinated, public-school, PC-educated candyasses beforethe colleges can get their slimy hands on their minds. Israel does it with great success. Why shouldn't we? Can you imagine Israel caving in to the terrorists?!? It is that important to educate our population about our enemies and to counteractthe Left's stranglehold on the Propaganda that passes for "education" these days.

dear Klanabear
Please be consistent and detail all of the others who corroborated the Iraq WMDs "myth",ie:French intel,Russian intel,English intel,Chinese intel,the NY Crimes,al cnn jazeera,j.F'n kerry,bill "Made it U.S. policy for regime change in Iraq" clinton,countless dems on the floor of the senate/house and on and on all back before Bush was even a blip on a presidential race,let alone in office.

Go ahead and hate your country and every good thing it stands for,just be honest about it.

Those of us who love America can say,"The U.S. is the greatest force for good that has ever existed,and our enemies are evil killers who deserve to die for the horrors that they inflict,intentionally,on targeted innocents all over the world every day." You and your bunch of self haters can not even repeat those words without some mealymouthed disclaimer like,"Well, we gave sadaam all of his chemicals!",or,"Which enemy do you mean 2spot,the ones we helped against the Russians,or the ones we trained to kill blah blah blah...?"

Oh and,this just in,your heroe Hillary is about to announce that knowing what she knows now,JFK was wrong to install an American presence in Viet Nam and FDR should've sent a SpecOps team into Germany,circa 1933,to eliminate Hitler.

Really now,is there anything else you can find to do besides second guessing great American doers like Bush,Cheyney,Rumsfield and the like? You ARE a sad little person filled with hate and bigotry,aren't you? I'll be waiting for you to say the words,"America is now and has always been,the greatest beacon of virtue and freedom to the world and our islamo-fascist enemies are pure evil that need to be destroyed."

Your thoughts:

tanabear and facts:
"David states, "That's when they began their lies about Bush's alleged WMD lies."

The fact that Bush, Cheney, the INC and the whole neo-con cabal lied about wmd has been well-documented. For instance, the "top secret" information they presented to skeptical Senators to get the to support the war was based on the forged Uranium-Niger Documents. The Iraq Attaq was desired by the neo-cons long before 911. "

Get your facts straight tanabear.


"Iraq is a long way from Ohio, but what happens in there matters a great deal here. For the risk of the leaders of a rogue state such as Iraq to use nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons againstus or our allies is the greatest threat we face. And, it is a threat we must and will stand firm."
Madeline Albright, 2/18, 1998

"He (Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of WMD and some day, some how, I am certain he will use that arsenal again as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, 2/18/1998

"I can support the president. I can support an action against Saddam Hussein because it's in the long term interest of our national security."
Hillary Clinton, 9/15/2002

"We know Saddam continues to gain access to additional capability including nuclear capability. There is a real debate to the matter of how far off that is, whether it's a matter of years or a matter of less than that. So there's much we don't know."
Joe Biden, 11/4/2002

"Saddam Hussein in effect has thumbed his nose at the world community and I think the president has approached this in the right fashion."
Harry Reid, 9/18/2002

"I support the president's efforts to disarm Saddam Hussein. I think he (Bush) was right on in his speech tonight. The lessons we learned after 9/11 were that we can't wait to be attacked again, particularly when it involves weapons of mass of destruction, so regrettably Saddam has not done the right thing, which is to disarm and we're left with no alternative but to take action."
Evan Bayh, 2/17/2003

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 20

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002









Speech by Bush, vote for war "When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support.

While it is perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision on the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began.

These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgment related to Iraq's weapons programs.

As our troops fight a ruthless energy determined to destroy our way of life, the deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them."

G.W.Bush 11/11/2005




Here is tanabear's
definition of a neo-con: all things Jewish.

Pitbull
You're welcome. The facts stand on themselves. I hope people who stay on this line of "Bush lied"
will take note that some of the quotes came before Bush ever was POTUS.

Good leaders know when to follow.
During the post-9/11 period, the public mood was such that to oppose the war meant the Democratic Party would be viewed as un-American. As such, it would have been political suicide to go against such strong public support for the invasion of Iraq. In order to protect themselves from the mob mentality, Democrat leaders HAD to adopt a pro-war stance, even if they were not really for the action. The role of a true leader is to guide people wherever the majority wish to go, regardless of personal feelings or convictions. Therefore, in times of turmoil, good leaders need to withhold their true opinions from the public, and readily adapt their ideology to whatever the whim of the majority is at that time. Once the mood swings to a point that matches the true beliefs of the holder, a good leader then reemerges, and takes up the position that is once again popular.

If the Democrats had stood fast against the public firestorm that ignited after 9/11, the public would have crucified the party. America was determined to steal the oil owned by Iraq, and conservatives used the excuse that the U.S. had been "attacked" by "terrorists". Democrats knew that the supposed attack should have been met with negotiations with the parties that the U.S. had apparently offended, but to suggest that we examine international policies and amend them so as to make major concessions to the Muslim world would have been calamatous at the time. Thus, considering the public sentiment, Democrats had to appear as pro-war.

Now however, Democrats are free to renounce the war since the public mood has swayed. What adds extra flavor to the situation is that by laying low and then rallying the anti-war sentiment, Democrats can bring about another military defeat for the nation. If we can succeed in having our own military suffer heavy losses, our armed forces will become demoralized, and hopefully disband entirely.

As Democrats, we can hurry this process along by continuing to show our suport for any entity that opposes our foreign policy, and by openly displaying our disdain for anyone that puts on a U.S. military uniform. It is not impossible for such animosity to be projected when an anti-war mood is prevalent, for at our peak of power, Democrats were not afraid to spit on those in a military uniform. Unfortunately, for some time now we have been intimidated away from such displays of our contempt for those that kill our "enemies". As a result of our timidness, we have allowed a powerful military to form up and wreak havoc on those that wish to live in peace in the Middle East. But the tide is changing, and anti-military candidates are seizing control of the government. This means we will once again be free to humiliate our military, bring deserved shame upon our accursed, war mongering nation, and demand the castration of our armed forces. Once we have a powerless military, the world will realize that America can be a truly peaceful nation with the Democrats firmly at the helm. Such a peaceful posture will guarantee that our international troubles will be eliminated, and we can set to work correcting the financial inequities suffered by our own citizens by putting the military budget into the pockets of the poor where it belongs.

LD
You ripped off another fantastic satire. Two thumbs up. Great read!

Peppermint & loyal dEM
You effectively ended ANY serious response Pepper baby.Way to administer a solid (and apparently stifling)thrashing to mr. "klanabear".

loyal dem: Man,it's not even funny anymore dood,I beg of you,MERCY!

2spotlefty
Oh, I'm armed for bear. Pardon the pun.
I delivered this same set of facts for Phylo last week. Never heard a peep afterwards.

LD's reads are just so "true" how the dems think, it is almost scary. Brrrr.....got shivers going down my spine.

Hey Pep
Don't worry about our resident members of the "Klan of the Kerry Bear" set as I call them.I'm sure you can find them down at your local military outpost,seeking out one of our "torturing baby killers" so as to give him a piece of their minds just before they spit right in his face. Yep,that's why they're too busy to respond,I'm sure of it,they're such brave little posters.They haven't got time to answer your silly facts.

2spotlefty
Phylo is hard at work on his book of Buddhist philosophy. He put an excerpt on one of his posts.
He has a lot of re-writing to do.
He wrote something like this:
"What is reality, space and time, 2+2=4 until you look ahead into space and reality becomes a perception based on......you have 4 rabbits when you add 2+2, but in reality there are many more rabbits....."
Whew! My head was spinning. I mean, gee I wish the guy luck, but what kind of reading that will be is questionable.

Memeber of theVRWC
T-bare as a member of the vast right wing conspiracy I just wanted to warn you. The black helicopters are coming for you and you will mysteriously fall out after we capture you; because of course we are all just a bunch of murderous scum.T-Bare; get a brain, get a clue, and get a life. We don't enjoy killing people; we just do what has to be done to protect ourselves and our fellow man. You're too stupid to understand even if you weren't blinded by hate and ideology.

Political hay
"But after supporting the war, they didn't have the character to stand by their decision once things started going badly, or at least when they realized they could make political hay by reneging on their decision to support the war."
Painfully true. Especially for the security of our nation.
Still, I can't trust many in the Republican Party not to do the same thing to a President from the Democratic Party. Especially since many Congressional Republican haymakers are doing exactly that to President Bush today.

No cause
Now that we now Iraq had no WMD and no intent to wage war against the United States, the US invasion of Iraq is clearly an operationally useless and strategic disaster. Instead of using the military to protect our national security, we are trying to put the various pieces of Iraq back together.

Of course there is no one who has a clear idea on what it will take to make Iraq work and that's because there are so many factors outside of our control and so many unanticipated consequences. Who foresaw the problem of Shi'a militias in early 2003?

If we remove ourselves from wishful thinking e.g. Iraqis want democracy and political rhetoric e.g. we are fighting for freedom, the absurdity of our invasion of Iraq will be clear: we have our troops fighting and dying so that Iranian backed terror parties can come to power. When evaluating a foreign policy -- or any policy -- intentions don't matter; results matter. It doesn't matter if we "intend" to fight for democracy or freedom, if the actual, concrete consequence of the invasion of Iraq was to create a breeding ground for insurgents, trigger a civil war, and allow Iran to extend its influence to Iraq.

WMD was just a sales pitch for war. When Saddam was using chemical weapons against Iranians in the 1980's Donald Rumsfeld was sent as personal envoy of the Reagan Administrationto forge diplomatic ties between our two countries. Mr Rumsfeld did not return to the United States saying Iraq's WMD use threatened this country or that Saddam had intentions of invading the United States. The Reagan Administration did not think Iraq's actual use of WMD was a concern, so why think they are a concern in 2002, when they actually didn't exist?

WMD was a propaganda technique to grease the wheels of war.

Remember, the purpose of the War on Terror isn't to wage war against terror, but to use terror as an excuse to wage war.






Cause
We went to war with Iraq because we believed Saddam to have or be in the process of acquiring WMDs. He had made public statements about wanting to hurt the U.S. So when he started refusing to allow unrestricted access to the U.N. weapons inspectors as per the agreement after Gulf War 1, Bush threatened war. If it hadn't been for the Germans, the Russians and Chinese assuring Saddam that they would block any move to invade in the U.N., the war might never have occured. As for Iraq in the 1980s- they were viewed as the enemies of our enemies. In the 2000s, they were just an enemy.

Red Tooth
Perhaps you missed Peppermint's list of quotes prior to making your comments?

Naw... you saw them, but I realize facts do get in the way of a mind already made up.

You should be flattered that a columnist devoted today's space to you and people that think like you do!

Loyal Democrat - an excellent writer
LD, I have read many of your posts on Townhall. Do you post elsewhere or have your own blog? In my opinion, you are a gifted satarical writer.

Straw Man
Posters here who like to refer to the 80's and how we "supported" Saddam against Iran like to forget two inconvenient facts:

1. Which country had just held 53 Americans hostage for 444 days?

2. Our staunchest ally in today's world was our bitterest enemy in the 18th century.

Things change... get over it.

ArticPara85
Don't forget the meeting tonight. Herr Overlord Rove is going to unveil his newest invention, the Liberal Mind Control machine.

All
Check my blog for today's HISTORY LESSON! (Click on my handle newbies).

Got the LATEST gouge from Professor Hammon Egger on the origins of Conservatives and Liberals.


Awww, Peppermint!
I wanted to say tana 'Just says JOOOOOOS!' bear!

Rats.

Loyal Democrat, I think I may have maligned you in earlier posts. Sorry about that! You are pretty good at satire.

As for the Democrats: Conyer's HR 288 (correct me if that number is wrong) is just ONE of the things they are going to try and ram down our throats in order to prove how 'tough' they are- on anyone who sees the islamofascist threat.

Don't spit on me
Yes, LD, your kind had the courage to spit on the military back in the 60s. One of them (you) spit on me when I returned from Vietnam, the poor fellow made a serious mistake, still alive but walking with a limp, I'm sure. It's no secret that your kind lost a war that we had tactically and strategically won, but you probably think that the millions who perished as a result was a good thing. Face the facts, the whole da**ed civilized world thought Saddam had WMD, and the fact that we haven't found massive stockpiles doesn't prove otherwise. Keep on talking, maybe you can lose another war for us. By the way, you won't have the freedom to post your inane rants under Sharia law.

Peppermint...Arctic
You rock...I am afraid yo beat me to the punch...I was armed as well, with a few facts for Tanabear...Can you believe this person claims conservative? I think I'm gonna throw up! I was going to post my link to the nefarious "there were NEVER and WMDs" articles about yellow cake, and the like, but you know why waste great knowledge when the libs posting here have the Tripl-L syndrome?

Arctic...are you sure it was not borrowed from Bill Waterson's Calvin and Hobbes' strip...I think it's the "liberal transmogrifier" and spaceman spiff!!!

Nee
Tanabear is as about as Conservative as I am a lover of Velcro-Fly Clinton.

Just another idiot that surfs in here to rain on our parade...or try to.

Read the Article BEFORE You Respond
Tanabear and Loyal Democrat are exactly what are described by David Limbaugh. "Loyal Democrat" comments that the Party needs to lead where the people want to follow. This is called "dog leadership". If you take your dog out for a walk, he is always in front. If you turn the corner you have to drag him around the corner, but then he goes out in front again. This is exactly what leading by polls does. Leadership, however, was not what was being done. The votes for the resolution, followed by the "Bush lied" mantra, are leadership by no measure of any dictionary which I have seen. It is leadership by Machiavelli.

Loyal Democrat thinks that the Party is more important than doing what is right for the country. He may be a patriot, but he pledges to the flag of the donkey (jackasses all) rather than to the flag of the country from his description. Besides, all that has changed is that he and his party verbally supported the war by resolution and then proceeded to undercut it through the media, the costant jibing that "Bush lied". The comment there is that the Democrats would replace ALL of their Select Committee on Intelligence members if "Bush Lied", because they knew the inside scoop as well and lied also. But Loyal Democrat supports the lies, misbehavior, and sedition of his party because he is a "Loyal Democrat". Doesn't think, just loyals.

Tanabear makes the point that "Ole Rumsfeld" negotiated with Iraq in 1983 even after we knew he had chemical weapons. Where were he and his party when Rumsfeld's confirmation hearings were going on? Apparently, this was not a problem during those hearings, but Tanabear gets out his half-fact dredge to try to justify his behavior. Limbaugh is right about him, too?

It is too bad that the nation won't take and make an example of Ted Kennedy or some other prominent Democrat who is practicing sedition, putting the party before the country. But they aren't like the old patriots of the country who were proud to admit their sedition. They are the Aaron Burr type, who make scurrilous statements and then challenge people who question their honor to a duel.

What the Democrats want is a "Blackhawk Down" writ large in Iraq. Then they can cover their guilt over Clinton's chickens**t behavior in Somalia by pulling out rather than handling the problem. Republicans can hold up their heads and say "Yes, this is the Republican's war, but it is the Democrat's retreat".

What a pack of lies!
So many lies, so little time. This is my favorite:

Limbaugh: Through the Democrats' approach to Iraq and the war on terror generally, we know they are untrustworthy, unreliable and ill equipped to guide the ship of state through wartime waters. Even if they weren't duplicitous, they simply cannot grasp the evil nature of our enemy.

Phylo: Ah yes, because, as we all know, the Republicans have guided the ship so admirably and capably so far.

Unbeleievable! Is there ANYTHING the Republicans have gotten right in this whole FIASCO (read the book)? ANYTHING?! (Okay, maybe the initial invasion, but that wasn't Republicans, it was our military) You idiots attacked the wrong country on false pretenses and then proceeded to botch nearly every phase of the war. You should also read Emarld City where you'll learn that the Coalition Provisional authority was the most incompetent beauracracy ever devised because, rather than fill important positions with qualified personnel, they filled those positions with inexperienced kids recruited from the Heritage foundation that passed loyalty tests to Bush.

Limbaugh talks about the Democrats as if they were in lock step on this whole debacle, when he knows full well they were divided between the people who actually looked at the facts and the ones who put their finger in the air and saw the public's support for the war (based on the White Houses lies about WMD) was high so they voted for it. Many Deomcrats were right all along on this issue.

In any event, it's simply not possible to govern a country any worse than the Republicans have over the last six years; it's a potpourrie of corruption, cronyism and incompetence.

And as far as the evil nature of the enemy goes, sure we think Ahmadinijad is a evil madman, but he's an almost powerless evil madman when compared to the USA. We are infinitely more powerful. Though, unfortunately, the invasion of Iraq has strengthened him quite a bit. Besides, judging by the last elections, his own people think he's a bit unhinged. Don't let demagouges like Limbaugh and Medved and Prager fool you. Sure they're (Islamists) evil, but they're literally powerless against us.

Phylo out.

AHHHHH!
It's the attack of cut and paste slabo.

Guess what slabo...YOU did not serve either did ya?

clown.

oh boy, oh boy,oh BOY
Slabo, Solis,
One and the same? Your Kutnpast mentality is just a perfect example of how you cannot think for yrslfs...And, isn't yatzee a fun game?

Phylo...I thought you might be gttn edjmacatd, but once again, the Triple-L syndrome rears its head. Yikes!

Hey libs
I'm giving ya a free history lesson today. Why not surf in and check out how your liberl movement started?

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/04b80b88-b65b-4707-a9a0-5465d7c80ad0

What A Humorous Procession Of

The New American Ignorati

Masters of the art of trickery in debate: Change the subject; SCREAM or YELL; resort to personal attack; repeat the big lie over and over and over; inject red herrings into the "discussion" so that confusion reigns....

Where confusion reigns, liberals are kings.

It Sounds Like D.Limbaugh...
...has already conceded power to the Dem's through 2016! I just don't see it that way. I happen to believe that the GOP could take power back - decisively - in 2008 if they would get their act together. Unfortunately our Conservative Commentators (like the Limbaugh's, Hanity, Ingraham, etc) are not putting any pressure on the RNC hierarchy to get their disfunctional house in order. They continue to focus their energy on the Dem's which is a total waste of time! Valuable time. We already know what the Dem's are all about. Within a week after the 11/7 bloodbath Rove and Mehlman should have resigned. And here it is almost 2 months later and neither have even acknowledged that there is a problem!
And our conservative political commentators that we depend on, have really dropped the ball. DD
http://streetlevel.townhall.com

Unknown
Some of us posting have relatives serving. Some of the posters here have served themselves. Nee, Gunny, Artic Para, Sawdust the ones I know of.

Have you served in the military?

You use a disingenious post to try to shut people up. It won't work.

Hey Dave what about Vietnam?
You are your bretheren desperately try and find parallels and comparisons to justify your world view yet you choose to ignore direct parallels that contradict you as well. Let's start with Vietnam and Iraq..

We tried to force a country to become a Democracy using military means.. Let's check the score card

We lost 58,000 folks in Vietnem but if it were today Bush and his ilk would have stayed until 100,000 have died..just to prove a point..Yahoo!!! Luckily America woke up and said that our sacrifice had been enough and we got out.. or according to neocons "we cut and ran"

Both conflicts were justified on bad or manipulated intel but that's ok because Bush did it so there's no reason to question him because things are going so well in Iraq today.

unknown

Truth
What's liberal about the truth?

Democrat Avenger
Get some facts. We were winning in Vietnam. The media lost the war for us by declaring Vietnam a no win. The media harped like they do today so the American people would give up and not support the war any further.
In Iraq we've lost almost 3000 soldiers. You can hardly compare that to the 58,000 lost in Vietnam.
The media is on the same rampage today hoping for another loss. They've already gotten to folks like you.

Democrat Avenger
Yes, by all means, let's compare to Vietnam. In the late 90s, a prominent general of the North Vietnamese made the astonishing admission that militarily, their side was losing. What kept them going, he said, was awareness of the "anti-war" fervor in the United States, and in particular, the constant sapping of American morale by the American press. A good example of the latter would be Walter Cronkite, ol' Uncle Walt, declaring in the aftermath of Tet that the war was unwinnable, DESPITE the fact that, from a military standpoint, Tet had been a HUGE American victory!

Now look at the current situation, in which the American press has been crying "Quagmire!" since about five minutes in, in which we have the LOWEST body-count of any war - in which, in fact, the per-gun death rate in Baghdad is lower than that in WASHINGTON, D.C.!!!

Once again, our liberal press is taking the enemy's side.

Oh, and one more Vietnam comparison, if you please: when we pulled out of Vietnam, the death toll of innocents went through the roof; the communists went on a purge/killing spree that prompted millions to leave the country in flimsy boats - remember the "Boat People"? Many more died in THAT whole debacle - all because we didn't have the nerve to stay where we were, all because we abandoned those poor people to anarchy and tyranny.

Yes, thank you for reminding us all of this very apt historical parallel.

Democrat Avenger (LOL!)
Talk about an oxymoron...

Let me point out TWO simple facts that even a liberal can digest.

1. We NEVER lost a battle in Vietnam. CUT AND DRIED FACT.

2. Tet 68 literally DESTROYED the VietCong as an irregular fighting force. The NVA had three divisions ANNIHILATED. They held roll call in a phone booth in Hanoi...

I suggest that you read the memoirs of NVA CinC General Giap. He puts the victory of the NVN right where it belongs, on the American media and anti-war scumbags.

tanabear is another drive-by kimberly...
Sad, isn't it?

unknown
so you're comfortable with your liberal angst?

If so, give a read to the beginnings of liberalism on my blog. However, you'll have to decide for yourself if you're an actual woman or just a girlieman, I ain't going there!

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/04b80b88-b65b-4707-a9a0-5465d7c80ad0

Mission Accomplished!!
Of course we won the body count war... yeah I know some facts. Our military thought we could wear the North down..Well what we failed to realize is that these folks aprox. 1 million died amd more were willing to fight forever.. We won in Iraq already..Bush said so... Mission was accomplished!! Yet we're stuck in the quagmire..3,000, 5,000 who cares the GOP will sacrifice as many Gis as necessary in order to save face..

But let's remember you guys support the troops better..

Generations of Sunnis and Shiites have been at eachother's throats but why don't we hope they put all of that aside and become friends..


Unknown
I understand that you may not agree with the Iraq war, but it was approved by a bipartisan congress. Read my post of earlier this morning.

Then, suddenly they all decided it was the wrong thing to do because things weren't going as expected. Wars never go as expected. There are blunders made in every war including WWII.

You may have noticed since the election and the dems are now in control, they have changed their tune about pulling out. Prior to being elected to majority they had no responsibility so they used the war as a political game. Now, they have to take some responsibility.

We are fighting WWIII actually today. To give up now would be as inappropriate as giving up after the landing on Normandy which was a big blunder at that time.

Now, that we are there, it is best to support our troops who are fighting there. If you were fighting there wouldn't you want to know the American people are behind you?

slabo
Have you given up on original thought since it's too hard to squeeze one out?

Slabo, Ol Cut N Paste.

My 12 steps are my own creation, you have to use someone else's work. And you call me a dummy.

As I see it ...
The trouble with Pandabear and Red Tooth and all the other LIBS that write their hogwash in these blurbs is that their heads and their a**es are completely interchangeable, indistinguishable from each other, and they themselves sometimes forget which end they have in gear with their mouths ...

How naive can you get?

.....Limbaugh...

.....maybe a few idealists and their flock of sheep believe that despots can be reasoned with and terrorists can be appeased but the Hard Left ...the ACLU and the Social Progressive Caucus in Congress know better ...

.....their goal is to take down our government and to replace it with a Socialist State ...if they can use Islamic radicals to speed up this process so much the better ...to them the end justifies the means ...

.....under pressure from CAIR the flying Iman incident has resulted in Sensitivity training for TSA employees ...Sensitivity Training is code for Political Correctness which when translated means: "Western Culture and Anglos are evil and need to suppress their common sense and natural instincts to make allowances for minorities who are guilty of bad behavior" ...

.....Political Correctness which came into being under Communism is now the tool of the Liberal Press and the Democrats to rob us of our freedoms and to beat us into submission ...unfortunately Bush and the wimp Republicans in Congress don't have the cahones to stand up to this nonsense ...

.....Stamp out diversity and PC ...Gingrich/Santorum in '08 .....COLOSSUS

Slabo
Is there any place you disagree with Loyal Democrat?

RxLady
Tanabear lives in a world few venture. A world of conspiracy where black helicopters exist and "neo-cons" (read: "da Joooz") are really evil space aliens right out of an episode of "X-Files".

On the other hand, Kimberly is just a young and impressionable liberal who goes apoplectic at the mere mention of the names: "Limbaugh, Coulter or Malkin". She cannot help herself and could really use a dose of GunnyG's 12 Step Recovery from Liberalism program!

Red Tooth
You, also, agree completely with Loyal Democrat, right?

GunnyG
Now you KNOW the first rule of liberalism/socialism is a total disdain for original thought. Marx said all there is to be said. Everything that has come since is just recycled to make it sound contemporary!

Democrat Avenger: Vietnam...
"Our military thought we could wear the North down..Well what we failed to realize is that these folks aprox. 1 million died amd more were willing to fight forever"

You need to pay attention; a former North Vietnamese general has ADMITTED that the very reason they were willing to keep fighting was because of the AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA! Had our liberal-run news media been solidly behind the war effort, had American will been undoubted, they would have given up.

In other words, it was people like YOU who handed snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and handed it to the North.

You know... just like you are doing now. You must be so proud.

aryling
What you write makes absolute sense. One of the deadliest months being October, right before the American elections. The terrorists were hoping a big kill in October would drive people to vote for the wimpy whiner democrats. Gee, and it worked.

Next we have December, the month before the democrats begin their congressional majority. The terrorists once again hoping democrats will get our troops out of Iraq. They probably have taken note that the dems have been wavering about pulling the troops since they were elected. So, the thugs need to get the American people riled back up.

And you fall for it.

So, it all makes sense.

aryling
Wipe your mouth; you're drooling.

You know... I am fine with allowing idiot leftists like yourself as much say as you want, First Amendment and all. But when I see you practically slavering over dead Americans... I really really really get this wish that I could take a baseball bat to your skull. You are a disgrace. Deaths of fellow Americans are a tragedy; for you to gloat over them to this extent marks you as the worst sort of worm droppings.

Pity that you are beyond shame.

Pity that so much of the left exceeds you in depravity.

Right on, Slabo
Conservative Cowards and Crybabies need to actualy review the record of the Iraq war before they hold it up as an example of what great leaders they are.

Peppermint
Thank you for your patient recounting of the statements of left wing leaders prior to the Iraq battle. These unprincipled switches cause right wingers to distrust anything these people say, because they switch with the prevailing wind. LD describes perfectly the mindset of the switchers and the people like Phylo who have no trouble trusting and believing what they say now. As you noted, Murtha and the popular Get OUT NOW crowd, have been switched into the background now they have served their purpose, and now its we "must evaluate, maybe even send MORE troops". I can't believe anyone can trust these plastic worms. The rub with printing the statements of the plastic left is at the bottom line, their left wing followers, with their The end justifies the means" philosophy just don't care. Its like the muslims that make no bones about stating its perfectly ok to lie to an infidel, especially if it advances islam. Truth becomes what is expedient.

Aryling
Why do you bother to post? Loyal Democrat ha said it all for you, and with better clarity, vocabulary, and courtesy.

aryling
Thank you for the latest update from AP, CNN, NYT, WASHPOST, MSNBC, et-al. (like we needed to add you to this list!)

For the latest in the positive news from Iraq, I suggest reading & listening to Oliver North... one of the remaining truly "embedded" reporters.

For example, did you know there are now three provinces totally under the responsibilty of Iraqi security?

Did you know al-Sadr set up his base of operations in Iraq BEFORE the U.S. attacked?

Did you know al-Quaida's definition of victory in Iraq is running the U.S. military out of the country?

Now, let's see. Hmmm... if my fellow citizens want the same thing that my enemy has defined as "victory" for them... what does that make my fellow citizens? Hmmm... I know there's a word for that... I think it begins with a "T". I know for sure it isn't "patriot"!

Savage99
No problem. I enjoy putting those facts up. Have you taken note that the libs have paid no attention to the facts. They just keep sputtering on with their usual lies. Facts mean nothing to them. It stares them in the face in black and white, but pay no mind to facts. Better to stay on the uninformed road they keep running down. It's beyond comprehension.

You're right the unprincipled and unethical behavior of democrats should cause people to be concerned. How can anyone ever know where they really stand?
I am convinced in my own mind that they will not fight this war with Islamic thugs.

Primus54
arlying probably believes all those doctored and set up photos by the AP.
And, I'll say the word, TRAITORS. Too bad we don't have gulags to send them to.

Bryant69
Conservative crybabies?

I weep for my country everytime it needs defending from enemies without and WITHIN.

Big difference there, youngster.

Peppermint: TRAITORS...
... if we had that gulag, I wouldn't bother starting with aryling et al. I would start with Howard Dean. I would then move on to Pinch Sulzberger, Maureen Dowd, and Rahm Emmanuel. Sandy Berger would be punching license plates by the end of the week, John Kerry would be reduced to making merlot in the toilet in his cell, and Chris Matthews would be the terror of the prison showers. Don't drop the soap!

"Chicken Hawk" and other Red Herrings
Slabo and other libs who wish to take free speech away from conservatives think it is important that a politician must have served in the military in order to have an opinion about military affairs. Bill Clinton is unqualified by your criteria. (Draft dogdger--"I loathe the military") By the way, has John Kerry authorized release of ALL of his military records yet? I didn't think so. Until he does so, it is reasonable to infer that there is something in his records that he does not want us to know.

Just because someone served in the military doesn't make him or her a better political authority on matters military. Jimmy Carter is an example of a former service member who was a complete buffoon, particularly on military issues. Wesley Clark was a four-star general, and he is certifiable in his looniness.

So nice try, slabo and other libs, but you and your lib friends are still wrong in your pacifism. War was declared on US by the Islamofascists, and President Bush is responding the way a president should.

By the way, my military bona fides: I was a U.S. Marine helicopter pilot, discharged as a Captain. By your warped standards, I guess I earned the right to speak out about military items. In my view, my service gives me no different right or qualification to speak out about things than any other American, including you. Your "Chicken hawk" argument is a red herring that is designed to silence debate, so YOU don't have to think.

Primus54
You should see the whiny comments left on my blog by Bryant69.

I'm now convinced that his IQ IS 69 and that he is a stone metrosexual! No masculinity there for d*mn sure.
=============
Bryant69, this is how you spell "misogynist." Not, mysognist as you did.

Don't worry, you'll learn that word in 11th grade but until then, spell checker is your friend.

Level Head
The scoop on Hanoi John is that his discharge was less than honorable and he had to apply to Jimmy the Quitter for an upgrade! I'm guessing that the Naval Board of Corrections told him to pound sand.

Aryling, Red, Slabo
Latest proposals I've heard from the newly in control Democrats is that their solution to the mess in Iraq may be more troops sent over, maybe even a draft to make them available. Any comments? Aryling, i'm no fan of the situation in Iraq, but it could get worse. How do you propose the Democratic congress make certain this does not happen? As Slabo so kindly notes, you guys are in now. No more point in whacking on Bush. He's history. Where are you taking us from here?

Thanks Gunny G
I knew there was something about Kerry's past that he wanted to remain hidden. I hope that the swiftboaters keep dogging him about releasing his records, rather than to let him get away with his phony "reporting for duty" shtick. I have a hunch that he wrote up his own silver star commendation, and/or that he self-inflicted wounds so that he could get a purple heart or three, then get out of theater. Just a hunch. Kudos for your posting diligence in the foul wind of pukes like bryant69 and slabo. Semp Fi.


Level Head and Fergus
Levelhead, the libs try to shut us up, but they spew their hatred and their opinions around like throwing dung up against the walls. So, there we get a really good view of what their meaning of freedom of speech is.
Fergus, I saw Chris Matthews practically having a stroke prior to going into Afghanistan. He was so terrified I thought he might wet himself right on camera. I wrote him an email I almost am ashamed to admit, that if he is that afraid of the US going into Afghanistan, he needs to stay home, get under his bed and suck his thumb. There is no reason for him to display his cowardice that badly on public television.

And John Kerry in the gulag should be pumping out all the sh*t that never flushes down due to the amount delivered in the latrines by his fellow conspirators/traitors.

Level Head
No... John Kerry has not as yet released all of his military records, as he PROMISED to do. One would be very well supported in doubting that he ever intended to do so. He is, as so many leftists are, an unexcelled liar.

Savage99
I suspect I know the answer to your question:

"Where are you taking us from here?..."

Answer: "There..."

:-)

Iran
How has the focus of comments sifted mostly to Iraq? The townhall article is about the growing threat of Iran.

I feel that Iran is of most concern to the United States because of its similarities to Nazi Germany and other rogue countries. A country with nuclear weapons, a mission statement to wipe Israel off the and face of the earth, and funds to support global terrorism should be dealt with and soon.

Regardless of political party or even support of the war in Iraq, all Americans should seek ways to stop Iran.

LevelHead
The Swifties are still working on getting that info.
Another thing about Kerry he still has not released his records as he promised to do after he was confronted that Bush's were released. Kerry is still trying to keep all his traitorous actions covered up. One day we will all find out. It's just a matter of time.

Intelblogman
Iraq is a forerunner for Iran that is why it's important to debate about who is going to take over as POTUS.
Remember our troops are in Iraq, right next door to Iran, a position over which Iran is none too happy. Why do you think they keep arming the insurgents and terrorists?

Level Head
The corpsman who treated his first minor "wound" stated he plucked the tiny sliver from Hanoi John's arm and that it had penetrated the 3rd layer of skin! He refused to write up the chit for a PH. Quite obviously, Hanoi John did it himself.

Irregardless of how the maggot conducted himself in Vietnam, his actions AFTERWARD are an abomination! Consorting with Hanoi Jane Fonda, Chappaquiddick Ted Kennedy, and performing his own negotiations with the Commies at the Paris Peace talks, which is a violation of US Code.

More on Johnny's actions after Vietnam.

http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=33016

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0408,schanberg,51276,1.html

Being the Minority Sucks eh Limbaugh?
I hate to hear grown men whine, cry, and b**ch
when they lose and their agenda, propaganda and
tactics are rejected by the majority of the american people..

Listen to the increasingly in denial and unhinged David Limbaugh as he rants:

"Yet liberals in the State Department and elsewhere -- mostly in the Democratic Party -- still don't seem to get it. They can't quite get their arms around the reality that unappeasable evil exists in the world.

They believe we can reason with despots, negotiate with terrorists and tame tyrants through tepid sanctions

How can this nation possibly consider turning over the reins to politicians with such a recklessly misguided mindset? How can it consider giving the Democratic Party control over both the legislative and executive branches."

Well Mr. Limbaugh..despite your ranting it has happened because your approach along with that of President Bush has failed and isnt working.
Even President Bush admits it.

Does it make sense to keep stubornly keep banging ones he up against the wall in the name of "steadfastness" when its not working or to re-evaluate, adjust your couse and tatics to something that works and is successful in the end.

"Stay the Course" Repubs/Cons like Limbaugh just dont get it.

Neither party has the guts to win
Bush has been totally supine in the face of Iranian threats and aggressive acts. He's also permitted Syria a free hand to make trouble in Iraq and Lebanon, and supported Palestinian terrorists affiliated with Abbas. He's tied the hands of our soldiers in Iraq and has failed to aggressively push for victory there.

Bush seems paralysed, and seems more concerned about Muslim sensibilities than he is about winning or even supporting our troops.

Bush's political correctness and inability to articulate a policy of victory are major reasons behind the Democrats' win. We need some real Republican leadership and moral clarity. And I'm not seeing it in any of the presidential candidates, either. Platitudes won't do, nor will vague professions. Bush has not carried through on his own rhetoric. I want to see some specifics from these posers.

Peppermint
One small quibble with your posts: we are actually fighting WWIV; we won WWIII against Soviet Communism. Then, as now, Democrats did everything in their power to undermine that war and to aid and abet our enemies.

Also, I have been absent from this board for some time, and feel the need to point out again that Tanabear cannot be taken seriously. She seriously believes that the Bush administration planned and executed the attacks of 9/11 using missiles and explosives, and that there were no planes. Unless her posts are actually tongue-in-cheek, and her sarcasm much more subtle than Loyal Democrat's, she belongs in a rubber room, not on a blog.

Intelblogman and Peppermint
Intelblogman, you're right. The article is about Iran. It also mentions Iraq and the Democrats approach to it. They are interrelated. The dems continue to deny history about Iraq, and somehow never discuss that Iraq's nukes are probably buried somewhere in Syria--fully deployable.

As far as Iran is concerned, it desperately wants Baghdad, and is a major sponsor of the insurgency in Iraq, particularly in Baghdad. We should be very concerned about Iran for all the reasons you cite, and more. With democrats in charge now, it will be almost impossible to convince America that this menace needs to be dealt with and that we are the only ones capable of doing it. There's rough sailin' ahead.

Peppermint: Your comments are comforting. Let's hope that he is indeed exposed for the fraud he is. Let's also hope that the "chicken hawk" bandwagoneers remember that Al Gore served in the Army, but was kept away from places where boots get mud on them by his senator dad, who pulled all necessary strings. Let's also hope that light is shed on chicken hawk-pacifist-empty suit Obama.

correction:
Well Mr. Limbaugh..despite your rantings 2/3 rds
of what state HAS happended with dems taking control of both houses of congress and strong possibilitie in 2008 of gaining the White House.

unknown
"Two bits, four bits, six bits a dollar,
Keep dying for oil while all I do is hollar"

God, what is it with you lefties that you never let a many-times disproven lie DIE?

Explain to us again how this war is for oil, given the objective FACTS.

*shakes head in disbelief*

Left Angle
"I hate to hear grown men whine, cry, and b**ch
when they lose and their agenda, propaganda and
tactics are rejected by the majority of the american people."

And yet Gore, Kerry, Dean, Michael Moore and so many other grown men of the Left did nothing BUT whine, cry and b**ch, for six solid years.

Leftist hypocrite.

LeftAngle
Just for giggles, I would like you to tell me what the democrat's plans are for winning the war in Iraq?
Also, tell me what ideas you have on fighting the war against the Islamic fanatics.

I have an inquiring mind. I'd really like to know your ideas.

John Galt: Who belongs in a Rubber rm?
you stated:

"Then, as now, Democrats did everything in their power to undermine that war and to aid and abet our enemies."

That is a ridiculous statement and anyone that really believes it belongs in a "rubber rm."

lmao

Left Angle
Just remember... many of the victories won by your side were by "Blue Dog" Dems who ran to the right of their Republican opponents. So don't let it get too deep into your head that the "majority" of Americans support a liberal agenda... that is just simply not so.

You've got the ball... and I pray the remaining Republicans are every bit as bi-partisan and congenial as the Dems have been up until now!

Slabo - I Walked the Talk
My Chicken-hawk butt? Perhaps you didn't read that I served in the USMC. I piloted helicopters full of infantry Marines and landed them in LZ's.

And what battalion did you serve in?

Left Angle
'"Then, as now, Democrats did everything in their power to undermine that war and to aid and abet our enemies."

That is a ridiculous statement and anyone that really believes it belongs in a "rubber rm."'

Really... then how do you explain the admission of former Vietnamese General Diep that it was primarily the opposition of the American media to the war, and the constant agitation of the anti-war Left, that kept up the spirits of the North Vietnamese military despite their military losses?

Peppermint...Its simple..
Train the Iraqi Troops and Police force, turn over the reigns of power to them and let them fight the take the responsibility for security for THEIR country as the U.S. stands down. It baffles me why you repubs/cons have absolutely no faith that they wont fight.

As for fighting Al qaeda etc. these groups are nebulous and spread out around the world. for some reason repubs/cons seem to think the are all located in the middle east.
I say track em down arrest or kill em by any means neccessary.

slabo
Stop posting. No one is reading your blubber.
No one is interested. We are just scrolling past you. You post the same sh*t every time you get on here. Redundant!!

Fergus..In other words..
People who honestly detest war and all the carnage that goes along with it and are vocal about it are "aiding and abetting" the enemy?

where is the connection?

LeftAngle
Good idea about training the Iraqis to take over.
That is exactly what our military are doing now.

On Islamic fanatics. We have troops in a whole lot of other places fighting these terrorists. It just is not publicized. Some of it is classified info.

Left Angle
"Train the Iraqi Troops and Police force, turn over the reigns of power to them and let them fight the take the responsibility for security for THEIR country as the U.S. stands down"

What exactly gives you the impression that this isn't what we are already DOING??? There are, in fact, three more Iraqi provinces in which control of security measures HAS been given over to Iraqi forces!!!

Try paying attention to the real news...


"As for fighting Al qaeda etc... I say track em down arrest or kill em by any means neccessary. "

Really... so you're down with waterboarding terror suspects, imprisoning them in Gitmo, listening in on foreign calls to domestic targets? You have no objection to racial profiling of Arabs, no matter where they might live?

If that is all true, then you are one unusual leftist, and quite out of step with your leaders.

Primus: They ran as centrist...
and thats where the power is..In the middle.
I dont think a radical right or left position is a winning proposition.

Left Angle
"People who honestly detest war and all the carnage that goes along with it and are vocal about it are "aiding and abetting" the enemy?"

If those people who "honestly detest war," etc., would demonstrate JUST AS HARD against the warmongers abroad as they do against our leaders here, I could at least credit them with intellectual integrity.

However, Jane Fonda and company in the 60s and 70s embraced the warmongers in North Vietnam, and never said "boo" against their sponsors in the USSR and China. Now Cindy Sheehan tries to suck face with Hugo Chavez, Mike Wallace can't stop drooling over Ahmadenijad, and Jimmy Carter embraces every tyrant he can get the airfare to visit.

LeftAngle
How do you think the dems won last November's election? Part of the win was due to terrorists seeing that the liberals here in America were siding with them in wanting us to "redeploy" as the dems stated. Between libs and dems the terrorists saw America caving. That's how it helps the "lose the war" effort.

Left Angle
I'd hardly cut that razor thin lead in the Congress a majority.

They're even in the Senate now, with your buddy Cheney the tie-breaker now that Johnson is out. Once he's gone, the Republican Gov will appoint a Republican to fill that seat. Oops.

What is going to be funny as h*ll is when those military vets ram it up Red Nancy's keester. You see, they MAY be Democrats, they may be GOP'ers in sheep's clothing, but rest assured, they WILL go be voting for the socialistic pablum.

Why do you think Red Nancy already had to reverse herself on Murtha and then Alcee!?

I love to watch cat fights and you libs provide some good ones.

Slabo's Double Standard
Slabo,
Why is President Bush a chickenhawk for serving in the Texas Air National Guard, but Dick Gephardt "walks the walk" by serving in the Missouri Air National Guard?

peppermint & fergus...
you left out the final part of my statement..

train the iraqi troops and police AND LET THEM TAKE OVER IN THE NEAR FUTURE....

thats the difference..you repubs/cons want to coddle the Iraqis and babysit them forever..
dems dont and wont...

Peppermint's Right
Slabo: your rants make no sense and are full of holes and circular logic. We generally go here to get away from your New York Times/Daily Kos mentality. Let's make a deal: You stop posting here, and we won't bother you on Daily Kos, Huffington Post and MoveOn.org.

LeftAngle
They ran as centrist? Ha! What a joke. They lied just like they always do to get votes. You won't see any centrist policy come out of congress. Even if some of those blue dogs are actually real, Pelosi and company will have elephants sitting on them dare they speak or bring up any ideas. Pelosi will kick them in the b*alls with her pointed Armani heels if they dare go against her.

Left Angle
"you left out the final part of my statement..

train the iraqi troops and police AND LET THEM TAKE OVER IN THE NEAR FUTURE...."

Explain to me why letting them take over "in the near future" is preferable to letting them take over when they are ready, but first, define "near future."

"thats the difference..you repubs/cons want to coddle the Iraqis and babysit them forever..
dems dont and wont..."

Given that the Left is happy to coddle and babysit blacks, Latinos, gays and just about everyone else, it strains credulity to believe that this has anything to do with Democrat motives in straining to get out of Iraq.

Moreover, lessons of history - Vietnam - demonstrate that Leftist peaceniks are more than happy to abandon people who are not ready to protect themselves against the depradations of the bloody Hun, and that the result of the Left have its way is too often tragic.

LevelHead
I think if we completely ignore all of slabo's post he will just go away eventually. If he gets no attention he will go back to dummies underground where they enjoy that crap.

Take your Ritalin Slabo
Of course I know what a DD214 is. I have one myself. It doesn't say anything about conduct while in the military, fitness reports, billets served, etc. Kerry is hiding something. Cleland was wrong and his constituency voted him out for a better man, namely, Saxby Chambliss.

Peppermint
You're right. Slabo is hopeless. I will ignore him from now on.

Left Angle
is just another lib who will keep going around in circles trying to prove a non point. Arguing with him is a lesson in futility. I've done it before and have done it again. Shame on me for trying again.

If he was a truly against war he would join the Amish community and live their life. They don't participate in wars and they don't go around spewing hatred and lies.

correction
I wrote "and that the result of the Left have its way is too often tragic."

I should have written, "and that the result of LETTING the Left have its way is too often tragic."

Moreover, I skimped on the citations; I mentioned Vietnam, but there's also 1940s Russia and Ukraine, North Korea, China (many thanks to Sec. Dexter!), Laos, Cambodia... gods, the list goes on and on.

Just Curious
If all that the libs here say is true and that this war was nothing but a lie for oil and that we need to bring the troops home now then what would have been accomplished? In as far as the bring the troops home now crowd what would you have them do as soon as they got here? Is the military's job not to make war? I mean really you want to protect the troops but from what....the job that they signed up to do?

Peppermint
You and Gunny G are informed and thoughtful, and right. Thanks.

Peppermint
Sometimes it's not just about arguing with *them*, but about providing a counterpoint to their less obvious lies, for the benefit of anyone reading who might not be up on the issues. The more obvious lies don't even need to be bothered with; hence why I never respond to idiots like slabo. The clown nose gives him away, and I prefer to spend my time on the more insidious liars.

Pick your poison
"How can this nation possibly consider turning over the reins to politicians with such a recklessly misguided mindset? How can it consider giving the Democratic Party control over both the legislative and executive branches in 2008, notwithstanding the Republicans' regrettable performance on domestic spending and immigration?"

As a conservative who has given up on the GOP, my answer is: how could Democrats be any worse?
I trusted GOP since 1980 to protect this country and they have FAILED MISERABLY.
Limbaugh is worried about how Democrats would go soft on Iran, but what about the GOP? They are not doing what could be done to weaken Iran and that is to play hardball with China. They won't do the one thing that might make Middle Eastern countries sit up and take notice: ban Muslim travel to the US for the forseeable future.
There used to be two trading blocs - one free and one Communist. The free world protected itself by not building up those who would do us harm. It also made moral decisions, such as when country after country voted not to trade with the apartheid government of South Africa.
That changed once China decided it wanted to join the industrial world without giving up its Communist mindset. All we saw was a huge consumer market (which has yet to materialize) and lost sight of all of our principles. We are moving jobs and transferring technology to the very country that is aiding Iran in its missile and nuclear programs, all in the name of short term fiscal gains.
Both parties have sold out the American worker. Does it matter who wins in 2008? Both have the same goal: one world government. Republicans think this will mean the unfettered flow of capital (human and material) and will make them all wealthy. Democrats see it as the way to end all war and poverty in the third world. Both parties are selling us out. Both parties deserve to lose, but one will win since our system doesn't make it easy for third parties. Democrats or Republicans: pick your poison.

Mr. Limbaugh quote:
“Even if they weren't duplicitous, they simply cannot grasp the evil nature of our enemy.”


The Dems and the liberal media are absolutely being deceitful. However, I think this plays to America's advantage toward defeating Al Qaeda.

Most republicans cannot bring themselves to use deception and attacks on the military to forward their ideals. However, the Dem's complete lack of morals and leftist propaganda lead America's enemies to actually believe in their false claims; which is in turn put forth by the liberal media.

It's STRATEGERY at its best when America is underestimated by its enemies!!

Ahh...ideology
The thing that really ticks me off about ideologues, of which there are many posting here all across the political spectrum, is that they give every benefit of the doubt to people who agree with their point of view, but then engage in the worst conspiracy theorizing about people who do not agree with their view. Be consistent or shut the heck up.

Left Angle
Thank you for dealing with the new role of D's in congress, by stating your proposal for a win in Iraq. Except for an amorphous sort of time difference?? it sounds like the current policy to me. I even hear the new D's are discussing the possibility of instituting a draft or perhas sending MORE troops to Iraq. This does not comport very well with my memory of what major spokesmen for the D's like Murtha were saying before the election. Murtha has been silent of late. Are you happy to see Bush policies not just continued, but supported? Happy to see the visible dissenters gone? Conservatives were vocally unhappy when their elected pols departed from the rhetoric that got them elected. Do you suppose there might emerge a slice of the left that starts using the acronym DINO?

S.A.L.T.?

Does anybody besides me see it as even a teeny bit hypocritical that we're all (at least all here at TH) ready to blow Iran off the surface of the earth because we believe Ahmadinejad wants Nukes, but we don't, even in our wildest dreams, talk about getting rid of our own nukes or even slowing down the growth of our own stockpiles?

Maybe Ahmadinejahd should bring up the idea of bilateral reductions...

Fergus
"the clown nose gives him (slabo) away". That gave me a good laugh. I immediately had an image pop into my head of some guy with his hair sticking out every which way, a sneering smile on his face, and then that big red nose. Yikes!

Flaming Lib Idiot
Look up "straw man argument", then get back to us again with whatever you would like to ask.

Flaming Liberal Multiculturalist
I apologize for my first response, both in calling you a name (uncalled for) and in failing to properly respond to your question (ungenerous). Allow me to try again.

"Does anybody besides me see it as even a teeny bit hypocritical that we're all (at least all here at TH) ready to blow Iran off the surface of the earth because we believe Ahmadinejad wants Nukes, but we don't, even in our wildest dreams, talk about getting rid of our own nukes or even slowing down the growth of our own stockpiles?"

Let's tackle this bit by bit, to expose why the question as asked is fallacious at best, and deeply deceptive at worst:

"we're all (at least here at TH)..."

Even unaltered, your statement scarcely applies to ALL of us here at TH. It scarcely applies even to all the hard-nosed conservatives. I know it does not apply to me.

"we're all ready to blow Iran off the surface of the earth"

I have yet to hear anyone, even the most rabid, espouse this level of destruction of Iran. At worst, I have heard the use of tactical nukes, bunker-busters, to root out and destroy Iran's nuclear capability. That's the extreme.

"because we believe Ahmadinejad wants Nukes"

No. We don't *believe* that Ahmadinejad wants nukes. We recognize the objective fact, scarcely contestable, that A. has been doing everything possible to obtain nukes.

To even approach denying that he has been doing this is rank falsehood.

Beyond that... the rest of your question depends on the standard leftist equivalence, starting out with the assumption that Iran and the U.S. are on basically the same footing when it comes to warlike behavior. This is absurd. Iran's regime violated our territory in 1979, and there is good evidence that A. was one of the crew of "students" responsible. Iran has, for decades, backed Hezbollah, which has been responsible for hundreds of American deaths - prior to 9/11, more American deaths than any other terrorist group.

Iran backs them. Iran FUNDS them. Iran provides them with their entirely capability. In a very real sense, Hezbollah is to Iran as the Marine Corps is to the United States.

None of this gets into the nutty things that A. has done and said: his repeated threats to the existence of Israel, the Holocaust denial, the whole 12th Imam business...

Does it even begin to sink in yet?

FergusMacLennan
Great Post.

Funny how the Lame Stream Media has overlooked the fact that hardcore Iranian regulars are responsible for the trouble in Iraq. H*LL, the Marines and Army have been saying for a YEAR that it is FOREIGN FIGHTERS NOT IRAQIS!

Well, they finallt report it now that a few are caught. The NY Slime, better late than never I guess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/world/middleeast/25iraq.html?ei=5090&en=d7bbb4578e61b6da&ex=1324702800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Oops.

slobbo...
I think that is spelt "O'Reilly", Mr. Cut N Paste "Grammar".

Oh... and John Dean? Coward John Dean? Liar John Dean?

Invoking his name as a spokesman for conservatism doesn't cut much muster around here, Ace.

Finally, if your military credentials are accurate and, at the same time, you truly believe the things you write here - then let me be the first to express my sincere regret & sympathy for the head wound and resulting brain damage you've endured. That can be the only logical reason I can detect for your disorder.

Thanks for serving, though!

:-)

The Reality of Iran
Iran is a nation where the minority controls the majority. Fully 70% of Iranians are 30 years of age or younger. Most of these younger folks want democratic reforms. However, they cannot overcome their ayatolla controlled government. Ahmed. is just a puppet. Only candidates deemed "qualified" by the conservative minority are allowed to run for office...essentially solidifying the ruse that Iranians control their destiny.

However, it would be a shame to level Iran for the sake of eliminating the minority at the majority's expense. Therefore, the concept of pre-emption only works so far as the fact that we must support underground groups where possible and embargo Iran. Anything beyond that wont work because the left in our country has castrated our image of a strong unified nation. They have assured our enemies that they will push their propaganda if only to furthur the Democrats desire to get back into the White House. Sadly, now that our enemies know that our politics mean more than unity during a time of war, revisionist history buffs and the agenda driven media will flourish. This will scuttle any attempt to soundly defeat Iran politically before it gets nukes. So we must sit back, bite our lips, and wait for the "I told you so day" and then unfortunately, many innocent Iranians will have to pay the price of the aspirations of their fundamentalist leadership and their insane hatred for Israel.

Hopefully, in the mean time, our embargo's and support of the MAJORITY of Iranian's will bear some fruit so that a nuclear exchange (which Iran would lose 100 times over)can be avoided.

Primus54
He did not get that head wound on active duty amigo, his mommy dropped him on his gourd as a baby, over and over and over.

he must have been doing poorly at potty-training.

Hey Slobbo, you ever get over that hurdle?

War Protester Aid & Abet the Enemy?
A couple of rightwingers made this statement
earlier and I stated:

"If a person honeslty detest war, all the carnage that goes along with it, exactly HOW
is that aiding and abetting the enemy?

In the mind of the protester he or she is
not taking sides with either participant.
It is the very act of war they are protesting
against.

Furthermore, I'm trying to figure out where repubs/cons are getting the information that
everyone that protest the Iraq War is a liberal, leftist or democrat? Are you telling us that everyone on the right supports the war, because that is nonsense.

In respect to threats
I find it curious how the same people that thought that it was ok to invade Iraq on the basis of WMD would find it to be unpalatable to invade Iran or that they would think that the same failed tactics of UN resolutions and a "dialouge" with them would provide any further success that it did with Hussein. You see Iran's leadership is far more frightening to me do to the fact of its openly religious aspect and the fact that in this instance the party in question would in fact use this as a "holy war" against not only the US but Israel. That being said do we back down and "protect" the troops from more losses or do we do what is needed to be done to eliminate the threat? It is a question of do we have the intestinal fortitude to do what needs to be done. Democrats have made it quite clear with their actions to the war in Iraq that they do not.

GunnyG
I'm wondering if our buddy, Slobbo, joined to serve his country or if he joined just for the education!

I mean, there has to be a few libs in the military who genuinely love their country, right?

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Primus54
I never met anyone who claimed to be a liberal in the Corps.

Maybe a few exist elsewhere, I don't know.

I know that Slobbo would not last five minutes on the yellow footprints at Parris Island.

Repubs/Cons Live In Fear...
It simply amazes me that repubs/cons are so fearful and scared of Iraq (formerly), Iran & Syria & N. Korea.

I could care less if they have Nukes...

These countries are like bugs to be squashed..

the U.S. has enough nukes/firepower..etc to blow these people of the face of the earth 10 X or more.

Eagleone
What a shame that Jimmy the Weasel screwed the pooch so bad in Iran in 79. He left a lot of people twisting in the wind but then again, libs so that sooooo well. Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Iran.

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Slabo
Looks like your library is full of authors that seem to get it wrong.

John Dean , Richard Clark, Lou Dobbs?

Why the Reagan Revolution Failed? What planet are drifting away from.

the problem with your assessment.....
Left Angle is this do we want another terrorist attack on our soil with the use of a nuclear weapon being the weapon of choice? My money says no we eliminate the threat before it becomes a reality. How difficult is that to understand? These people will strap bombs to themselves and go for the glory of allah and screw the consequences because they think they'll be screwing 70 virgins in paradise for taking it to the "great satan" come on now surely you have enough forsight to see that?

Obtuse Angle - time to wake up!
I'm glad to see you're still out there, but is it possible you really believe that the Left didn't actively and consistently undermine our half-century battle against Communism, the greatest scourge in the history of mankind? Perhaps you missed the recently-released KGB files detailing Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy's sureptitious trips to Moscow and his attempts to sabotage Reagan's foreign policy. Maybe you forgot about congressional Democrats' open support of the Sandinista regime, or the never-ending love affair between the Left and Communist killer Fidel Castro. I could go on and on. At least the Left's affinity for Communist regimes is understandable, given their shared collectivist philosophies.

The Left's current tacit support of Jihadistan is harder to understand, but equally hard to deny. Why do you suppose that the leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda et al were openly rooting for a Democrat victory in the recent election? Why wouldn't they favor a party that promises unconditional surrender to them, is attempting to write a "terrorist bill of rights," and wishes to dismantle all of the tools we are currently using to fight terrorism at home? Of course they will favor a group that shares their hatred of Israel, falsely claims that we were "lied into war" and that we cannot win, and acts as their intelligence agency (See NYT, AKA Al Jazeera West). Can you distinguish between the words of Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, and the rest and those of our terroist enemies? It is crystal clear that the Democrats and their media minions are indeed aiding and abetting our enemies, for no other purpose than their own power and their hatred of Bush.

Slobbo
If you persist in copying and pasting talking points from another source - could you at least eliminate all the space between each paragraph? You know, as a courtesy to our fellow posters who use dial-up?

And since you are compiling reading lists, might I suggest a few to you?

Anything written and published by the following authors:
- Thomas Sowell
- Walter Williams
- Ann Coulter
- Michelle Malkin
- Phyllis Schafly
- Brothers Rush or David Limbaugh
- Robert Bennett
- John Stossel
- Oliver North

Better buy a few rolls of duct tape if you plan to read any of these. You'll need it to prevent your head from exploding - the normal reaction when libdolts and moonbats get exposed to facts and truth.

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Left Angle
Red Herring. Those nukes will never be used, never ever ever. Moreover, the U.S. has demonstrated that its political class lack the will to use the conventional military it has to its greatest effect in nearly every conflict since Korea.

- Truman muzzled MacArthur at the Yalu

- Vietnam is one big history of politics trumping political necessity

- Carter's abortive attempt to rescue the hostages in Iran

- Bush 41's refusal to enter Baghdad and take out Hussein the first time

- Somalia under Clinton

- Bosnia under Clinton

- The current mess in Iraq, which is going amazingly well CONSIDERING the political hand-wringing

Moreover, as usual you completely mis-state the question. Individually, none of the countries pose an existential crisis to the U.S., that is true. However, all but one of them pose a SERIOUS existential crisis to Israel, both individually and collectively, and collectively, radical Islam poses an ENORMOUS, long-term existential threat to not only the U.S. but Western culture as a whole.

Was Serbia-Montenegro a serious concern to Great Britain in the first decades of the 20th century? No, of course not... but letting that pustule fester led to the Great War, and indirectly to nearly all of the geopolitical troubles of the 20th and 21st centuries.

John Galt Utter Nonsense...
you stated:

Why wouldn't they favor a party that promises unconditional surrender to them, is attempting to write a "terrorist bill of rights," and wishes to dismantle all of the tools we are currently using to fight terrorism at home?

"Can you distinguish between the words of Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, and the rest and those of our terroist enemies? It is crystal clear that the Democrats and their media minions are indeed aiding and abetting our enemies, for no other purpose than their own power and their hatred of Bush.

To me these statments are utter nonsense. Do you actually think that Democrats support the positions of the enemy. That Democrats are on THEIR side? That is the most ludicrous bs I ever heard and slanderous at that.

It just goes to show you that in the mind of Bushites, anyone who dares to criticize or oppose Bush on Iraq is a:

"unamerican leftist traitor who aids and abetts the enemy"

That is bs right wing propaganda that doesnt work anymore...

if the "real" enemy thing that dems are gonna be soft on them they got another thing coming.

Fuzzy
We got it Fuzzy! :-)

Primus
If the intent is to seriously educate Bozo - I mean Slobbo - I would rather have him read Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, Natan Sharansky, Robert Spencer, even Mark Steyn. Polemicists are good, but serious theoreticians are better.

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



LA another thing comming
Can you expand on what the Dems are bringing to the terrorist.

"if the "real" enemy thing that dems are gonna be soft on them they got another thing coming."

Consultations, Appeasement, Diplomacy?
(Cut and Run, re-deploy, dialogue)

Fergus: You fear Midgets..lmao
an existential threat? either they are or they are not...

I dont live in fear of those countries or what you call islamofascism..

I believe that the U.S. has the capacity to crush any of them and dont spend time worrying about it.

You really dont know what will happen in the future as far a U.S. usuage of nukes.

spacecadet:

I do believe that there will be another terrorist attack on the U.S. and that nothing going on in Iraq is going to stop it.

Are you kidding me?
Lefty all you have to do is to look at what they say about the problem with terrorism and how the people that they would have be president would deal with it. Terrorism will never just be a nuisance and prosecuting them like a simple law enforcement matter would merely be a joke. Just look at what we have with the lefties whining that poor ol' Saddam is going to get his neck stretched and how sad that is. Come on now people show some backbone and be true to who and what you are. You can say that you care about this country but when y'all ran John (did I mention my service in Vietnam) Kerry the only reason why anyone voted for him was that you thought there was a big enough ABB (anybody but Bush) backlash that you could slide a substandard candidate through. Get down to the truth of the matter and be honest with what you would do to make this world but more importantly America safer.

Left Angle writes:
"if the "real" enemy thing (sic) that dems are gonna be soft on them they got another thing coming...."

OOOOooooo... listen to Mr. Tough Guy!

Okay Lefty... who are the "real" enemies of which you speak? Are you "tough" Dems going to do something preemptive, or wait until we are attacked again, maybe with a WMD?

You remind me of the little boy who just backed down from the schoolyard bully who always TALKS big... after the bully is out of earshot, that is!

Who needs to use Nukes?
If those adhering to Islam cannot find virgins in their own land, then why are they so eager to believe that virgins are so readily available in the afterlife?

If these people can be so easily duped, then who needs to use nukes? The UN can simply promise to airlift several pallets of unused Kewpie dolls, complete with an unlimited supply of jarred Vaseline, and declare victory!

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Gunny: Its simple..
Democrats wont be wasting time in places like Iraq...We will focus our energy and time on
destroying al qaeda and finding and extinguishing Osama bin Laden.

Sorry Folks
But you don't get to disagree with the war.

Our duty was clear. Multiple violations of U.N. imposed restricitions on Iraq are why war was necessary and why we went into Iraq. Other U.N. member nations had the same duty but just said "Uhhh, no." They are not global superpowers with expanding economies and have more to lose by joining us. Thus, one of the many flaws of U.N. ideology.

Many in the United States were also willing to forego their duty and commitment to the U.N. until public opinion swayed our hand with respect to WMD intel.

This is why the argument of that we should only be in Afghanistan is not valid. This is why- We should only be after Osama & his henchmen or Al Qaida, or Hamas, or whomever, is not a valid argument. This is also why the "Bush Lied" argument is blatantly worthless. These are separate issues entirely from our reasons for invading Iraq.

Outrageously, the left lauds the U.N. who leaves the U.S. to carry out duties all member nations are obliged to.

Unconscionable.



Slabo- don't be scared come back
By the looks of your previous assignments in Italy, Germany and Spain living with the warped anti-American socialists might have effected your mind.

You're still salvageable.

FUZZY: ENOUGH!
It's just as noxious when someone I agree with reposts and reposts the same tripe as when one of these leftist morons does it.

Stop now please!

LA
Where would you look for Al-quaeda and Osama?

Okinawa?

Jeesh!
Okay, Left Angle... let's say you catch Osama.

Then what? What are you going to do with him?

And what will al-Qaida do... disband?