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Tuesday, November 21, 2006
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Addressing the elephant in the room
by David Limbaugh
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I realize Democrats won the elections, but I believe the last thing the president should do the next two years is retreat from his agenda or extend the hand of bipartisanship to liberal Democrats who will only bite it off to a nub anyway.

The elections are not a mandate for the Democrats' policy agenda, because they didn't offer one. I tend to agree with the commentators who contend the elections were not a repudiation of conservative principles, but a referendum on the GOP's perceived competence. If so, the lesson should not be to tack toward the center, or radically alter their ideological approach, but to govern more effectively.

I believe President Bush should govern proactively, not reactively, in his final two years, choosing a handful of issues and pressing forward boldly to promote them: extending the tax cuts, retaining the necessary tools to prosecute the war on terror, drastically reducing domestic spending, immigration reform (the GOP House version -- I know that's wishful thinking), and Social Security reform -- this time with a plan, not just an open-ended invitation for proposals. He cannot and must not expect good faith cooperation from Democrats, except the newly elected conservatives among them.

But to achieve meaningful progress on any of these issues, he first has to work toward restoring his credibility on Iraq, the oxygen-sucking elephant in the room. He cannot possibly lead effectively on Iraq without clearly communicating the options and the pros and cons of each.

We read that a Pentagon study on Iraq is going to tell us we have three options: more troops ("Go Big,)" fewer troops but stay longer ("Go Long"), or pull out ("Go Home"). We hear the Iraq Study Group has no magic bullets, but will recommend that we negotiate with the terrorist states of Iran and Syria. If true, we should take this commission's recommendations with pillars of salt.

What about the fourth option? It is not just Gen. John Abizaid who is saying that troop levels in Iraq are not the problem. Some commentators agree, but go further, saying that we are not fighting the war to win, but are allowing the Iraqi government to handcuff us in our conduct of the war and pursuit of certain enemy factions.

I think it's time the administration responded to these questions directly with detail and specificity, if for no other reason than to stop the idle speculation among doubters.

Are we really forcing our troops to fight with one hand tied behind their backs? If so, why? Is it because the administration believes that unleashing our forces will militate against Iraqi sovereignty? Even if so, isn't it time we reconsider the opportunity cost of such deference: that this war is dragging on longer than the American public is willing to tolerate?

Also, does the administration believe Iran and Syria are behind much of the terrorism and ethnic violence in Iraq? If so, how can we afford not to attack these "problems" directly? Or are we already?

Further, it might be helpful if the administration gave us a clearer picture of our desired end-game in Iraq. Isn't it true that we don't have to achieve anything close to a violence-free zone in Iraq in order to accomplish our mission and leave? Shouldn't our goal merely be to train the Iraqi troops to the point that they can furnish stability for a government -- preferably democratic -- that is friendly to the United States and that will not allow itself to be a safe haven or training ground for international terrorism?

I happen to be among the apparent minority of people who still have confidence in President Bush and what he's trying to accomplish in Iraq. But unless he answers some of these questions, and others, it's doubtful that the American people's understanding of the situation will improve and their support for the mission will be rekindled.

To be sure, no matter what he says on the subject, Democrats will try to distort it and some Republicans will attack it, claiming superior knowledge to the generals in the field and superior wisdom to the politicians off the field. But the president won't have a fighting chance to sustain this battle if he doesn't do a better job of getting his message across.

This is not only necessary to advance the cause in Iraq and the war on terror, but to enable us to focus meaningfully on the other important issues facing our nation, none of which we can afford to place indefinitely on hold during this phase of the war. Not coincidentally, addressing the elephant in the room is also necessary to a much-needed resurgence of the GOP.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Is the President a Conservative?
I lost confidence in the Republicans ability to be conservative. I'm loosing confidence in President Bush's committment to be a conservative. I'm looking for a conservative party to support.

The President Retreat From His Agenda?
Not on your life, buster! The president's agenda includes granting amnesty to 12 Million Lawbreaking Illegal Aliens before granting them citizenship so they can then vote for entitlements. This is what he scuttled his own party for. This is what he jumped into bed with the Dem's for. The Iraq war is just a diversion. It is to keep the public's concentration far, far away from what he is really doing to this country. Now we all know what is a "Compassionate conservative".

both parties
both parties are full of corrupt incompetant power drunk polititions. In 2008 ALL INCUMBENTS SHOULD BE VOTED OUT does not matter what party they are with all should be gone. They have done nothing to improve the country the Rep abadoning there conservative roots the Dems unable to get over there hatred of President Bush attempted to undermine everything he did in Iraq hopeing America would lose to make him look bad.

already said that
r0_d2 please stop repeating yourself no one really takes you seriously when you do that and it seems like your spitting. anywho time for work.

r0_d2
You seem to be an authority on idiots. But I can see why. They are all around you in the form of liberalism.

demoncrats
no I didn't mispell it. In favor of abortion, In favor of same sex marriage, in favor of the draft, in favor of additional taxes, in favor of racial preferences, and Lord forbid that the Lord is ever mentioned. In favor of crooks in leadership. What a party to be for..

neo-cons
The Republican Party has moved away from being the Party of Reagan. Infiltrated by neo-cons that believe in conservative big government, the original platform created by Reagan has been forgotten. For the next two years the GOP needs to stick to their guns, and add ammo by returning to the basics set forth by the Reagan administration during the early eighties.

KIMBERLY
KIMBERLY SWAM UP OUT OF THE SEWER , AGAIN .

David:
"Further, it might be helpful if the administration gave us a clearer picture of our desired end-game in Iraq"

David what makes you think the Administration has this information? Bush ran out of plays a year ago. Baker's his only hope.

Only 1 agenda
Kimberly:

You seem to imply that Americans voted for Democrats b/c they liked what they had to offer. For the last six years, Dems have offered NOTHING but hate-filled animosity against the President, Republicans, and anything the then-majority put on the table (let's see, there was the Bush=Hitler, Bush=liar, Bush=ignorant comments, or what about the time they brought the wife of a Supreme Court judicial nominee to tears with their unsuccessful attempts to undermine his credibility?). I agree that the Republicans squandered their majority away in the Senate and House of Representatives, but do not mistake the election results for broad support for the Democrats' agenda. They never had one, they just wanted back in power. You know the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for..." We'll see what they are made of now that they are trying to make nice with the very people (and Americans)they've been insulting for almost a decade.

How inane conservatives are!
How can anyone defend this self contradictory article. Obviously David Limbaugh did not proof read his own article or is unable to think logically. Perhaps both. Limbaugh doesn't even talk about the REAL ELEPHANT in the room!

First he says...
"... the last thing the president should do the next two years is retreat from his agenda..."

Then he says ...
"... it might be helpful if the administration gave us a clearer picture of our desired end-game in Iraq. "

Golly! What a fantastic idea! Advice to Bush from Limbaugh: Figure out what we are trying to accomplish!!! Then communicate it to the American people!!!

If Limbaugh thinks that Bush is unable (or has failed) to give a clear picture of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq, why on earth is he supporting the fool? THAT is why intelligent people voted against the fellow travellers of a president who takes the country to a war that we are not winning. One who can't clearly communicate the purpose of the war!!

Then proving that he is nothing but a propagandizing windbag Limbaugh asks rhetorically whether if our goal is to

1) achieve a ... violence-free zone in Iraq
2) train the Iraqi troops to the point that they can furnish stability for a government -- preferably democratic --
3) leave a government in place that is friendly to the United States
4) have an Iraq that does not tolerate international terrorists.

Of COURSE those are reasonable goals. Both democrats and republicans would agree "mission is accomplished" if these goals were achieved. The problem is that we are FAR, FAR from achieving them. And the problem is not that the Bush administration can't communicate these goals. It is that it has demostrated over the last few years that it HAS NO CREDIBALE PLAN for achieving them. That is what the debate and the election was about!!!

When will conservatives wake up and think intelligently? It is not enough to assert you have noble sounding objectives when you have no effective plan or strategy for achieving them. That is why the people elected new leadership in congress to look over this foolish administration's shoulders and make them address the issue.

THE REAL ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS IRAN

The Bush/Rumsfeld/Bremmer bungling over the last few years has been the gift that just keeps on giving to Iran. They are the ascendent power in the middle east. We have eliminated the only enemy in their reagion they ever really feared. If there was any thought they might fear Israel, the war in Lebanon in which they and all Muslim's see their proxy Hezbollah as victorious should quash that thought. They will certainly not fear Israel once they have nuclear weapons.

Bush has no coherent strategy to deal with Iran over the long term. So, of COURSE the ISG will recommend we have to negotiate with Iran. It is a near certainty that Bush, through Rice, will begin to do so over the next two years in spite of the snoozing conservatives like Limbaugh. We have to negotiate with Syria, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, too. Iran already holds the keys to whether there will be enough stability in Iraq for us to leave. They have more influence every day with the Iraqi government and the Shiite mullah's to whom they kowtow.

Bush will negotiate with other Islamic countries in the region because their interests do not align completely with Iran's. He will do that because he knows that there is no chance for republicans to retain the white house in 2008 if the situation continues to deteriorate.

REPUBLICAN LEADERS
We have major problems with our leadership in Washington. Nothing more than a bunch of whimps. Look how the
democrats did it, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING was blamed on the President.
Katrina, Iraq(you dont think that their actions egged the terrorist on), and things that they did wrong too. What about the buses that the Mayor didnt move and were flooded??? Corruption in Louisiana was part to blame for the massive flooding, but as the democrats see it, blame the republicans. It is time that the leadership in DC get some ball and do what they did to us. I know the media may not give us as much air play as the democrats. We are losing our country to baby killers, pro-terrorist monsters.

I'm with David..
I am also a believer in President Bush and his Iraq/anti-terrorist strategy. All people have to do is go back and read his first statements after 9/11 and prior to the Iraqi war. The war on terror could last at least "10 years" and there were at least 24 points on why the war against Saddam's Iraq was necessary, one of which was WMDs.

If the prior administration of President Clinton had responded as harshly, as President Bush has, after the terrorist attacks during his administration, 9/11 would not have happened and the resulting Iraqi war would not have happened; and the almost 6000 lives lost to date would not have happened.

The failure to act when action is necessary always precipitates harsher future actions. Look what Chamberlain's appeasing of Hitler cost the world in lives.

Oh, the Humanity!!!
Wow! There's more violence offered up here than the last three years in Iraq.
If only we could bottle it and sell it. I'd say let our leaders have some. We could call it "courage in a bottle". They could use it for backbone.

Negotion won't fix this Islamic Thing.
If Bush was to appeased the Democrats & MSM, is anyone here naive enough to believe they would then cooperate with him?
Our Nation is in a WAR of SURVIVAL and it is high time the Democrats and Republicans come to grips with that FACT!

If you follow a few threads from this you will see our enemies are devided. There should be a way to take advantage of this.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3330633,00.html

This will make clear Iran's intentions.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200611/NAT20061117b.html

With Iran openly testing rockets, building a nuke and swearing to use it on AMERICA, who among us would advocate waiting for hundreds of thousands of American civilians to be killed and crippled first before we take Iran out?

Bolshevik Spectre
A Bolshevik spectre is haunting America---the 110th Congress.

Slacker posted . . .
that, "THE REAL ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS IRAN."

Funny, but I never heard any Democrat saying that until after Ahmadinejad started running his mouth about Iran's nuclear weapons program.

I never heard Clinton say he wanted to bomb Iran.

Slacker does revisionist history well, doesn't he? Slacker, look at a world map. If we have Iraq and Afghanistan as allies, that brackets Iran. Good deal, strategically.

Bush has always stated that Iran was one of the three "axis of evil" countries. You're acting like he hasn't been paying attention to Iran at all. NEWS FLASH to Slacker: the POTUS doesn't need to consult with you on national security.

World Opinion, PC, Multiculturalism blah
blah, blah ... etc., we will win in Iraq when we tell so-called PC and World "opinion" where to go and start killing these militias and terrorists. US and Iraqi forces captured the militias involved in the recent kidnappings. Why are they still sucking air and burning calories? They should have been killed. On the spot.
It will not be militant Islam that brings down the US; it will be our unwillingness to do the tough work to ensure our survival. This will mean, if necessary, sending hundreds of thousands, maybe millions to the Gardens of Delights and the 73 year-old virgin.
To give one the idea of what this all means, just check out the European reaction to the death sentence handed out to Saddam.
Maybe Paris can get OJ to write a new book: If I were in Dhimmi Status, how I would efface myself.

Gunny
Alcee Hastings needs help to "sanitize" the new Congress: Jack "Abscam" Murtha and William "the Freezer" Jefferson will help. IF thats not enough, they can take any DemocRAT pol in New Jersey, headed by former Sen. Toricelli, of course.

Reality Check Time
I respect Limbaugh and believe we generally share the same concerns and objectives. Unlike Mr. Limbaugh, however, I no longer respect the president, nor do I have any confidence in his ability to deal with the paramount issues facing this country.

When Bush leaves office, I predict that we will have largely abandoned Iraq. Iran will have strengthened its already strong hand in the region. Syria and Iran will fill the void left by the U.S., with the result being eventual effective control of the country by Iran. Taxes will have increased. Spending will have increased. If a Supreme Court slot comes open, it will be filled by someone palatable to the Democrats but repugnant to conservatives. Bush’s crowning failure, however, will be on the issue of illegal aliens. In short, he will arrange for the amnesty and naturalization of millions, businesses will continue to encourage and employ fresh illegals, and border security will remain a dangerous joke.

I am not a pessimist by nature, and I would like nothing better than to see different outcomes. Were Bush a better man, I would certainly have more reason for optimism. At some point however, even the most committed conservative has to cease dealing with Bush as we would liked for him to have been, and begin our long march back, based on the man as he is and the impediment to our long term objectives that he represents.

r0_d2
r0_d2 I keep asking you to tell me about your gun collection.
Most Gun Collectors are proud of their collections, why won't you tell me about your gun collection?

You did not say a falshood when you boasted about being a Gun Collector, did you?

Logic
Slacker:

You claim that the article is contradictory, but you don't state anything that was contradictory.

First he says...
"... the last thing the president should do the next two years is retreat from his agenda..."

Then he says ...
"... it might be helpful if the administration gave us a clearer picture of our desired end-game in Iraq. "

Golly! What a fantastic idea! Advice to Bush from Limbaugh: Figure out what we are trying to accomplish!!! Then communicate it to the American people!!!

Limbaugh did not say that the Admin doesn't have a plan, he just said they need to communicate it better. Limbaugh supports the admin because the plan has been communicated to him and others well enough to logically support it. The other half of the pop don't think logically anyway, they just listen to soundbites, and we get those from the leftist media.

As for the endgame, well duh . . . of course that is what we want. That is what the military is trying to accomplish. Do you do everything perfectly all the time? BTW, have the liberals come up with an exit strategy for Germany or France. It was many years before stability was achieved there. Our boys were fighting in the streets there as well. We are still there providing for their defense, leaving their govt to provide for everything else for their lazy pop (ok mostly France).

I don't blindly support the Pres on everything, but if we just give up on Iraq, the terrorist will just follow them home. Would you rather have trained professionals fight them on the streets of Baghdad, or every man for himself on the streets of Anytown, USA?

The 4th estate
Truly a sad commentary on MSM,GunnyG: What do you bet that when January rolls around and Dems take over, the economy will suddenly be reported as strong and thriving? Global warming will ease! The ailing will be healed and all will be right with the world!

Disgraceful.

Wrong Elephant?

Gee, when I saw the title of this article I thought that Dave was going to be addressing Rush...

A Herd of Elephants, & No Mahout
"... I believe the last thing the president should do the next two years is retreat from his agenda or extend the hand of bipartisanship to liberal Democrats who will only bite it off to a nub anyway."

I wish he HAD an agenda; that might'a helped! As to "bipartisanship," since '94 that's been a code word for "cave to the Demmies, even when they're a minority." The kind of "bipartisanship" promoted by the pop media and Demmie spokespersons should have gotten the cold shoulder & the middle finger from Day # 1.

"The elections are not a mandate for the Democrats' policy agenda, because they didn't offer one. I tend to agree with the commentators who contend the elections were not a repudiation of conservative principles, but a referendum on the GOP's perceived competence. If so, the lesson should not be to tack toward the center, or radically alter their ideological approach, but to govern more effectively."

Well, they DO need to "alter their ideological approach" in the sense of finally HAVING one ferachange. I don't know how much more "toward the center" they could possibly go than they've been for 12 yrs, & I think a clear verdict has been rendered at last on this notion.

There is no "moderate" electorate out there who is going to be excited or motivated by watered-down Democrat Lite lukewarm me-tooism. Wooing such apathetic if not nonexistent voters with nothing is a one-way ticket to Loserville, & you will note that it's been the Demmies & other leftists, the pop media, & their talking heads who've been pushing the GOP to persue this approach. How pathetically braindead STOOPID it is to take strategic advice from your adversaries!

IN any event, DL correctly points out that the Demmies have no mandate for leftism because they simply stood there saying almost nothing about their own program while they waited for the GOP to implode. Watch the Congressional Demmies be "reasonable" for 2 years, 'cause they want to sing "Hail to the Chief" to Hillary come January 2009. Come that day, just watch the brown rain come down in torrents on us all!

"I believe President Bush should govern proactively, not reactively, in his final two years, choosing a handful of issues and pressing forward boldly to promote them..."

Well, good luck with that; if they couldn't do it when there was still time to run for re-election on it, I find it hard to see why they'd have the gumption to do it now. However, if they do try, it would demonstrate that the Repub's problem has been that they lacked the courage of their conservative convictions rather than lacking the conservative convictions themselves. If they lack the convictions, they will have no reason to rock the boat in their lame-duck period. If they just lacked the courage, well, now they've got nothing to lose. However, such a sincere & honest effort may help persuade peeohed conservatives that the GOP & its candidates might have learned their lessons & be worth supporting in 2008.

Unfortunately we are in a dry period of the Iraq conflict where the risk-reward equation looks rather bleak. Hand it over to the Demmies now, & they'll neither win it, nor end it anytime soon, altho eventually we may have more photos of choppers picking up a few fleeing refugees off rooftops in Baghdad as with Saigon 30+ yrs ago.

Let's face it though, apart from the issue of 9-11, we have had few options to be anywhere other than where we are now with respect to Iraq. If you look at our acts and decisions in their time and context, the alternatives would have been worse.
Fer'instance:

- During the Cold War, Soviet control of the Mideast was at stake. If you question the necessity of checking the Soviets, then there's little common ground on which I can argue with you.

- In 1991, the alternative to Gulf War I would have been Saddam premier of Iraq/Arabia, possibly with nukes, too.

- We didn't topple Hussein in the first Gulf War, for which HWB got endless grief. Had we done so, we would have been where we are now then, for which HWB would've gotten the grief WB gets now.

- Clinton did what the Demmies seem to be saying we should do now, & look where it got us. Failing to act by 2003 would have seen Hussein continuing the corrupt little Oil-4-Food scam with the French, Germans, & Russians indefinitely. Quite possibly he would have continued developing WMD's instead of hiding them in probably Syria. (Sorry guys, it is a known fact that Iraq had chemical weapons & was trying to develop nukes, at least.)

Actually, it has always been pretty obvious to me that the way things are going in Iraq is due in great part to Hussein's own grand scheme for this contingency, i.e. re-invasion/ground war/occupation. He learned the hard way what we could do in a conventional war, but he figured the one way to beat us would be to get us into a protracted frustrating quagmire fighting guerillas and irregulars & being picked off by snipers & booby traps (or IEDs as they call'em now) until the American public's will to support the war was exhausted. He figured that would be much much sooner judging by previous sallies into Mideast trouble spots. He destroyed or hid the WMD's & parts & plans to discredit us on that count. He encouraged anti-American loonies from all over the Mideast to come over & cache weapons & set up networks and hiding places. He & his family hid, hoping to drive us out long before he was caught & his punk rapist sons were cornered & got what they had coming for a long time.

As to Iran: tell me, how did THAT situation get where it is now, & on whose watch? Say "Thank you" once again to Jimmy Carter. Who still thinks the Ayatollah's theocracy is preferable to the Shah? Now we need a reasonably strong federal republic of Iraq to counter Iran, perhaps even to serve as a staging area for some disciplinary action if needed.

If you ask me, our task now should be to get the new government in a position to defend itself, & to secure the borders, esp. with Iran and Syria. Once we choke the fresh supplies of outside insurgents & their support, the new Iraqi government should be able to start taking over its own defense, & the rebellious elements at home might see the advantage of joining rather than fighting on. Also, their oil production and export facilities need to be secured so they can alleviate their economic problems, which in turn would help ameliorate the other disputes and grievances. Let's face it, Iraq has been basically the Yugoslavia of the Mideast, an amalgamation of mutually hostile ethnicities/religions held together by a tyrant. Unfortunately, only the Iraqis can create a united, prosperous, and peaceful Iraq. A definite "leave" date would motivate and empower the jihadists and insurgents, but the prospect of a phased withdrawal might OTOH motivate the various Iraqi factions to get their excrement together and cooperate. I suppose if the absolute worst (short of Iran detonating a nuke) came to pass and Iraq dissolved in chaos, we might reverse our Kurdish policy (the Kurds being our Cold-war allies) and support an independent Kurdistan.

Encouagement?

Shouldn't the younger generations be encouraged in their political consciousness?

GunnyG Are you as big an idiot ...
... as you seem? I guess you are demonstrating how conservatives sleep walk through life! You say,
"Not to mention that you've managed to "avoid" opening up a blog here as we've all asked you weenies to do."

All you have to do is click on my name above my post. Just look! You will see it is underlined, just like your name is!! Click on it!! It will take you to my blog!! Its been there since I have been posting on this forum!!! Its called LIBERAL CORNER. See, wasn't that easy? Think before you scribble!!

You will see my bloging and posting here worked!!! I exhorted conservatives way before the election to wake up and realize what a ship of fools they had in the administration and it was time to pitch them all overboard! Guess what! Enough of them listened and the dems now control both houses of congress.

In 2008 we will take back the white house.

As Howard Dean said, "Yahoo"!!!

Slaker in chief
Who do you claim to put in the White House in 2008?
Dean
Edwards
Kerry
Clinton
Obama

Give me a target please.

AyaRavaTaja, you miss the point too
As with most conservatives, it is time for you to wake up and think for yourself.

If you actually read my post before you react to it, you would see that I said dems and republicans would agree that if the rough objectives Limbaugh laid out in the article were accomplished we would all agree we could begin drawing down our presence in Iraq.

I also asserted that Bush HAS NO PLAN plan to achieve that end. That is self evident to anyone who is aware of how the situation has continued to deteriorate in Iraq since the deposing of Saddam.

Limbaugh also asked the following questions, which he DID NOT ANSWER in his article. The fact he wants answers to these questions means that he doesn't know what the administration's plan and strategy are either. He asked:

"Are we really forcing our troops to fight with one hand tied behind their backs? If so, why?"

"does the administration believe Iran and Syria are behind much of the terrorism and ethnic violence in Iraq? If so, how can we afford not to attack these "problems" directly? Or are we already?"

So you see, silly, that even the great Limbaugh, brother to the Master of Ditto-heads who says he knows all, hasn't a clue as to the details of the administration's "plan". From this article I assume Limbaugh, like me, thinks the administration strategy is just warmed over "stay the course" baloney, whatever the current course is.

As I said, repeating a bunch of vague objectives over and over as they slip further and further from your grasp is NOT the same thing as having a "plan" and "strategy" for achieving those objectives.

DavidMac you need to wake up too
You posted,

"Funny, but I never heard any Democrat saying that until after Ahmadinejad started running his mouth about Iran's nuclear weapons program. I never heard Clinton say he wanted to bomb Iran."

Just because you haven't heard something doesn't mean it did not happen.

Back in 2003, Sen. Joe Biden said,
"We have good reason to be suspicious about Iran. It continues to actively support Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. It refuses to surrender key al-Qaeda members who are in its custody. It has been developing a nuclear weapons program as well as a long-range missile capability. And, because it is one of the few countries with which we have no diplomatic ties and no regular dialogue, we have a tougher time understanding its intentions."

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/testimony/2003/BidenStatement031028.pdf

As I said, before, since 2003 the Bush administration has done nothing but empower Iran. They have no plan to deal with Iran today, either, even though it is stronger in the region now than when Biden made that statement.

And as far as bombing Iran, forget about it. Doesn't matter what either Clinton said or says, doesn't matter what Bush said or said. There is NO WAY Bush or his successor is going to start a war with Iran. So that is not an option, or a plan worth talking about.

End to the war
When our military is given the same freedom to fight the war on Islamo-fascism that they were permitted when fighting against Germany (WWII) to ensure that the Marxists would not be defeated and that the perverted cheese-eating surrender monkeys of France would retain their language, then the war will end quickly. As long as they are restrained by “political correctness”, the war will not end.

Keep on keeping on
As long as the battle for the Anbar province and Baghdad continues, you can keep sippin your latte safe at home. You don't have to execute your emrgency evacuation procedures due to a terrorist attack on the homeland.

Why pull-out of a fight you are winning.
We can continue killing terrorist and extreminsts as they are found in the battlefield. Do overlook the fact that they want the battlefield to shift to our shores.




Gunny C., since you asked...
You said,
"Slaker in chief
Who do you claim to put in the White House in 2008?"

I don't know who will be nominated. I happen to favor Joe Biden right now, but I am not convinced he has the ability to win the nomination.

My reasoning is that to clean up the mess 8 years of Bush has created, we need someone really strong on foreign policy. Biden has been pretty much "right on" about Iraq and the problems that need to be dealt with in the middle east since I started following him seriously back in 2002-2003 or so.

I don't understand...
r0_d2, Kimberly, slacker and so on...you have different political views, fine. But why do you insist on being so hateful? This is a conservative website and blogs. Why not just disagree, give your side and let it go? If someone does'nt agree with you, you call them names and spew such hate. Life is to short, believe me I know. I'll be praying for you.

Slaker in chief
Unlike you I have not followed Biden's "right-on" policies. I was somewhat busy on the fringes of the empire.

What are his strong foreign policy points.
But, please don't mention the words "dialogue" or "agreements" because there is someone else on the other end.

Slaker, etal
If you come to TH to try to win hearts and minds, you might want to learn the art of debate. If that is not why you are here, then "Why?".

Where's the hate
conservativefuneraldirector --

Where in my posts do you see hate? I thought I pretty much laid out a point of view and my opinions, which are strong, but not hateful.

Yes, I may have said conservatives need to wake up, or that Bush and Rumsfeld have been foolish and catastrophicly bad leaders. But that hardly constitutes hate-speak. If you think it does, I fear you are unusually thin-skinned.

In fact I think Gunny G or C berated me for NOT using derogatory terms like "Repugs" and "Bu$hitler".

He also berated me for not using the term neo-cons, which I do use occasionally. But I don't see it as a hate term, but as a generally accepted and descriptive term for a particular poly-sci type way of looking at the world.

Slaker in chief
I wouldn't want to google Biden to find out his view on Forign Policy.

Can you get me the "right-on" points again.

Gunny G, you can start with ...
... the PDF file you can get to titled, IRAQ: A WAY FORWARD available at http://uniteourstates.com/
which is on topic for this discussion.

As I said in my blog, I don't agree myself with everything he says in this document. However he put it out quite some time ago, well before the election. Quite worth discussing and somewhat courageous for someone who wants to run for president to go on record like this. If events prove him wrong it will be the kiss of death for his candidacy and he knows it.

Blogs
Yesterday, twice I noticed someone ask directions to get to a blog.

It is almost impossible to give directions in a timely manner before the person has go on to another thread and missed the Blog he wanted to read.

You guys should make sure that information is on every thread at various locations.

We R's need to Act Like the Majority
I think one of the most telling signs that the Democrat's were going to take the House and the Senate was the fact that they acted like the majority even though they were the minority.

You didn't see the Dem's espousing a need for bipartisanship or compromise. Republicans on the other hand managed to create the gang of 14 which guaranteed an inability for the Senate Majority to move forward an agenda without the Dem's stamp pf approval. Wanna bet if the Dem's allow a gang of 14 debacle or do you think they will demand party loyalty?

If Republicans have any hope of regaining the country's support they will have to put forward a conservative agenda and fight tooth and nail. They will also need to obstruct what needs obstruction (esp. amnesty). Let the Dem's react to our agenda for the next two years instead of us compromising to give them theirs.

Mitch McConnell, our new minority leader in the Senate has high hopes for bipartisanship and my eamil is his box to convince him to fight for our cause than to get the compromise us into a Dem 08 presidential win.

Our party needs to pick a fight with the Dem's and show that cut and run are Dem ideas not ours. If we compromise and don't fight were done....

Could it be true?
I couldn't help but notice Kimberly and SPEW's (R2D2) posts are not visible. Have they been removed??? That would be a wonderful day. I don't mind discussing issues with liberals but I get tired of the attacks, especially from Mr. Spew.

As to the article, I thought it was a good read and I tend to agree with the author on it.

Taliban Funeral...
I know it wasn't in Iraq but the Taliban Funeral debacle told us a lot about how the war, in general, is being fought. We had the opportunity to take out almost 200 of the most vicious. Some PC General said "No! that wouldn't be sporting". For a week or so we, in the American public, expressed outrage. We were given the cold shoulder by the President. Ignored. No explanation given. We never heard what happened to that PC General. We wanted to hear that he'd been relieved and sent to run the Pentagon Laundry. Which is where he belonged. He definitely did not belong on the battlefield. But we heard nothing. At the risk of having our blood pressure rise and having a stroke, we decided to just calm ourselves (like we did w/the illegal issue) and wait. And we waited until November 7th, 2006!
Mr. Limbaugh we have to come to the painful reality that our President Bush is probably a lost cause. He's already shown signs that he's rattled and has continued to make bad decisions. We want to remember him the way he was back a couple of Thanksgivings ago when he made the surprise visit to our troops in Iraq. We were so proud of him. But something happened to him after the 2004 election. He began to have a very different attitude toward his solid/core ultra-loyal base of supporters. Almost a contempt. It is painful but we have to begin to view the President as the opposition. I'd like very much to be wrong about this. But I'm afraid I'm not. DD
http://streetlevel.townhall.com

Where have all the conservatives gone?
Wonderful commentary!
I have to wonder what the Republicans have done during their majority years besides totally squander the opportunitity for true reform.

The more President Bush tires to appease the Democrats by adopting their liberal agenda—the further he will lose the support of his Conservative base.



It is over
I would like to thank all those who post here. I frequently use these postings to show how demented the sick far right is. Keep up the good work

Cheers
Hal

Hal Donahue
Do you quote us in context, or do you just pick and choose?

When the Democrats raise taxes
I think President Bush should seriously consider signing a tax increase--but only if it's big enough to harm the economy. I think he should consider going on primetime television and reciting the economic statistics showing the great state of the Bush economy--tax cuts, soaring stock markets, low unemployment, low interest rates, and low inflation. Then Bush should point out that the [ungrateful] American people voted for tax-raising Democrats and told pollsters that they wanted the Democrats to set the agenda. Since they wanted their taxes increased, he would grant them their wish and harm the economy. Then when growth slowed, I think Bush should trumpet the news as proof that liberalism doesn't work. Hopefully after the experiment was over, the American people would have learned a valuable lesson in economics--a lesson that wouldn't have to be repeated for quite some time.

They should practice what they preach
I agree, but I also think President Bush should put their feet to the fire with the complaints, rhetoric, and propaganda they used to win the elections. Let's see some of those plans they claimed they had which gave the American people the idea they could do a better job in Iraq. Show us this new day in Iraq Pelosi claimed was coming if she got Speaker of the House. The Democrats attacked President Bush, as much as the terrorist attacked our troops and yet after the elections, the killings and bombings still went on. What in the world gave the Democrats the idea once they won the elections the death and destruction would ceased because the terrorist would understand it was President Bush and the Republicans who were responsible for the war in Iraq. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, the Democrats who sided with the terrorist before the elections are now finding themselves on the opposite side of the fence. I say give them their head President Bush and lets see how much progress they can make against an enemy who is dead set on imposing their twisted religious beliefs on the world. Let the Democrats put up with the propaganda from the terrorist, the same way we had to put up with the propaganda from the terrorist, Democrats, and the media on the war in Iraq. President Bush is not known for cutting and running. I think if anyone tries to give him advice which contradicts the experience he has on fighting terrorism, he'll just ignore it. Which he should.

Richard
I like the sentiment, but we now have quantitative data on the maximum length of America's collective memory. It's less than six years, since, in 2000, we won the Presidency, and now, we lost the Congress. They've forgotten why they got rid of Democrats in the first place.

The Republicans helped, of course, by offering almost no contrast between themselves and the demonrats.

But in the length of time it will take for tax cuts followed by increases to teach America a lesson, it will have forgotten the tax cuts ever existed.

Disappointed
Okay... who was the wise guy/gal that "flagged" Kimberly and r0-d2's comments as "offensive"?

Or have they been sent to purgatory for a month by the Webmaster?

As much as I disapprove their opinions, I'd disapprove even more if TH started to behave like the left's sites such as DailyKos... bannishing opposing viewpoints.

Drive-By Kim was getting absolutely taken to task on Mike Adams column and I notice she never returned to defend herself, so I'm wondering if she can't post now.

Besides, responding comments make little sense when you can no longer read the post that started it.

Crossing the wrong border
Radlad, you've got your borders wrong. Not one of the Sept 11 terrorist came through the south.
The drug smugglers and coyotes don't want their pipeline shut down by having the bright spotlight on them because of some terrorist smuggling ring.
The "islameics" as you call them, get a visa and extend their stay.

I'm glad we have a president that continues to provide a safe way of life.

Maverick -Great points
Why would teh Commander in Chief listen to the armchair generals or the distorted media?
He will continue to listen to the Comanders in the field and will consult with the Joint Chief of Staff.

To the dems redeploy doesn't sound like retreat.

Gunny C.
When do you sleep!? :-)

- Primus54

GunnyG
Thank you for your Tuesday AM posts

Decaf anyone? (Lydia)
Are you a bit jealous of our elected president keeping your American dream alive and well.
Or was it his RE-ELECTION to lead this great nation against those who would have you face east and say your prayers.

Slacker
So Sen. Joe Biden (a Socialist-Democrat) said "It [Iran] has been developing a nuclear weapons program as well as a long-range missile capability. And, because it is one of the few countries with which we have no diplomatic ties and no regular dialogue, we have a tougher time understanding its intentions."

Slacker, you posted that he said that 3 years ago.

When did President Bush use the term "axis of evil"? I'm pretty sure it was prior to 2003.

Sen. Biden is, IMO, a fool and certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. We have no diplomatic ties with Iran because (1) their support of terrorists who kill us, and (2) their vow to eliminate our ally, Israel, from the face of the earth. Of course, Sen. Biden has a "tougher time understanding" Iran's intentions.

If Sen. Biden can't figure out Iran's intentions, I wouldn't go around quoting him as an authority.


DavidMac
Great point. I insist on listening to an opposing view as long as they don't use the words "dialogue" and "agreement".

Other nations use the term "dialogue" because it's their word for "stalling".

DavidMac, Biden's much sharper than Bush
Of course Bush used the term axis of evil in 2001 or early 2002, but so what. My point was not that Biden saw Iran was a threat before anyone else, and the time he made those comments I posted was not the first time he realized this. I was just responding to a post by someone else (not you) who said that no democrat ever said Iran was a threat until very recently.

Just because we don't like the intentions of some other power is no reason we should not have diplomatic relations with them. That is almost always a mistake. As someone said once, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

I do not disagree that Iran is a very important threat. But, president Bush has ensured that Iran will become the dominant Middle Eastern power over the next decade or two. We will need to negotiate with them at some point to stabliize Iraq so we can start reducing our troop presence there. Both parties want that to happen well before the 2008 election. Iran, along with Syria, now control the destiny and stability of Iraq far more than we do. Note that Maliki has been summoned to meet with these folks and he did not hesitate to do so.

In any case, you may argue that we should not have any direct diplomatic relationship with Iran. I don't think it matters what you think. I assert that the ISD will recommend this, and that Bush -- not a future president -- will start talking to Iran and Syria at least at the Condaleeza Rice level. I am 80% certain that we will see that by the spring of next year. I hedge because recent events in Lebanon have put a hold on early movements in this direction.

You may think Biden is a fool, but I disagree with you. He is WAY sharper than Bush. If you go back over Biden's appearances on TV, especially meet the press, you will see that nearly everything he has predicted about the situation in Iraq has been spot on. Almost nothing Bush has predicted about events in Iraq has proven correct.

Anyway, I don't think you have to worry about Biden being a presidential candidate. Banden's problem, other than coming from a state that isn't important in the presidential nomination process, is that he tends to be a bit of a windbag. But what the heck. We are posting in a Limbaugh comments section and no one can hold a candle to either Limbaugh brother when it comes to windbags.

The herd of Elephants in the room
I was one of those people who took the President seriously when he said we will no longer distinguish between the terrorists and those who harbor and support them. Well we know that Syria, Iran, Palestine, & Southern Lebanon are all supporters of terrorists. What have we done in Palestiner & Southern Lebanon? Work out a "seize fire" and "peace settlement" again with the incompetant and ineffective UN. As for Syria and Iran we all know that terrorist are sneaking into Iraq from these countries. Can anyone tell me what were doing about it? Iraq is in the mess it's in now partly because we haven't had the guts to take out the regimes of Iran and Syria. Or at the very least seal the Iraqi borders, but then again we can't seal are own borders let alone borders 5000 miles away.

That brings me to the next elephant, immigration. The President needs to stand up with Republicans in the house (or should I say who were in the house) and seal are borders. Build a fence a wall simething. If we can build a 300 million dollar bride to connect 60 people the mainland in Alaska we can build a wall to protect our border. Start training the national guard or other border security personal to guard the border. It's not going to happen overnight, but we have to start now before the country is over run by illegals. We have to plug up the leak in the leaky boat before we can start siphoning the water out. As were sealing up the border we must first, start to implement laws that are already on the books about punishing companies who hire illegals. At the same time we should have a temporary worker program for people who are here with a path to citizenship. Look it's just not realistic to round up 12 million people and deport them. If there's no incentive for people to come forward they won't. People can get ideaological about it that's fine, but we have to deal in reality. Furthermore by doing this we will actually end up with less illegal immigrants that become legal in the U.S. How? Well right now illegals are supposedly doing jobs Americans won't do. Well we really don't know that because illegals are working for God knows what and who knows how long. Well if the labor market for these jobs was a fair playing field with everyone under the same laws there will be competition from some Americans for those jobs. Also companies are going to hire less immigrants because the cost of their labor will go up. Then we will find out a much truer number of immigrants who are doing job that American won't do. Some say, but companies are going to raise prices of their products due to the higher labor costs? I say so what? If paying an extra $2 for a bottle of Red wine from one of Nancy Pelosi Vineyards in NAPA valley means the Borders are protected and we know who in the country I'll do it. :)

Just two more elephants for the sake of time: Social Security is bound to bankrupt the country. This legal Ponzi scheme can't last forever as the baby boomers start retiring in 2011 we will have less and less people working to pay for the SS benefits of the retired. In short private accounts are the solution, and as Limbaugh said Bush needs to submit a concrete proposal and then let Congress work from there. Unfortunately the most likely outcome of any of this whether it be on Bush's watch or some else is: higher social secuirty taxes which will take more money out of people's pockets and force companies to offer lower salaries to new employees and not hire as much.

Last, no matter how much money the government throws at education are school system are failing. Currently half of our property taxes, as well as a gigantic increase in federal government spending is going to an education system in shambles. We are having are asses handed to us by India, China, and Japan especially in the area of science and engineers. Someone will have to have the backbone to stand up to teacher's unions who are main obstacle to real education reform such as privatization or vouchers.

Wll that's enough of this rant...

Diplomatic Relations
Just because we have diplomatic relations with a country doesn't necessarily mean we kowtow to them. We can still kick them in the pants when necessary (i.e. Reagan and Gorbachev). Too bad we don't have a concrete symbol of oppression to point to like the Berlin Wall.
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