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Friday, October 27, 2006
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Iraq: The stumbling block
by David Limbaugh
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Iraq is a stumbling block for Democrats. They tend to view every foreign policy issue through their self-stained Iraq lens. Their manufactured fixation over whether we were justified in attacking Iraq obscures their view of the war on terror and the magnitude of the global terrorist threat.

Democrats often charge that if President Bush just hadn't attacked Iraq, the United States would have ample resources to deal with other threats in the world, like Iran and North Korea. Because our military assets are tied up in Iraq we can't effectively deter dictatorial mischief from Kim Jong Il or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

This criticism is disingenuous, since Democrats probably wouldn't favor tough action against either tyrant anyway. Besides, President Bush is nowhere close to issuing military threats against either one of these rogue regimes. While he wisely won't rule out the military option, he has been emphasizing diplomatic solutions, as well as sanctions.

He has steadfastly insisted on a multilateral approach to both nations against opposition from Democrats who have mystifyingly demanded that we elevate the stature of their dictators by meeting alone with each of them. President Bush has refused to exclude from the talks the other nations, who, according to Condoleezza Rice, arguably have a greater immediate stake in them than we do.

Democrats, on the other hand, have demonstrated the insincerity of their criticism of Bush for "going it alone" against Iraq, not only because it is patently and empirically false, but because they obviously have no philosophical affinity to multilateralism, nor any fear of alienating our allies as they claim. The only thread of consistency in their approach to diplomacy is their unwavering opposition to President Bush.

But if our diplomatic efforts and sanctions ultimately fail, will we be in a weaker position to deal with the Iranian and North Korean threats than we would have been had we not attacked Iraq?

It's certainly easy to jump to the superficial conclusion that our military demands in Iraq would make military action and thus deterrence-aimed threats of military action against either nation much more difficult, though many experts doubt that action against either would involve "boots on the ground."

But what about the other side of the coin? What if we hadn't removed Saddam and he was on his way to developing nuclear capabilities, not to mention chemical and biological? Can you imagine the predicament we would be in if Iraq had become a nuclear power, supporting and supplying terrorists in the global jihad? Forget the controversy over whether Saddam had WMD. Secret documents we obtained after our invasion make clear that he never deviated from his quest to acquire nuclear weapons and missile delivery technology.

The Democrats' hang-up on Iraq exacerbates their underestimation of the global terrorist threat. Their mantra is that if we hadn't attacked Iraq, we could better deal with the real terrorists in Afghanistan. John Kerry even suggested the other day that terrorists are in 65 nations because we attacked Iraq.

The implication is that if we hadn't attacked Iraq and had focused on capturing or killing Osama, the terrorist threat would be all but over. Even now, if we would just withdraw, the terrorist threat to the United States would be dramatically reduced.

But Democrats refuse to comprehend that Islamic extremists were already at war with us before we attacked Iraq and no amount of appeasement short of our wholesale conversion to radical Islam would have enabled us to escape their violent wrath. Iraq or no Iraq, we were already in the midst of a 50- to 100-yearlong war on terror. Foregoing Iraq would not have given us a get-out-of-war-free card. We never had that option.

Our attack on Iraq certainly hastened and accelerated the hostilities in that theater, because the jihadists weren't about to allow Iraq to taste freedom and self-rule at the behest of the Great Satan. But we did not start this war on terror, we didn't provoke the 9/11 attacks, and we didn't start hostilities against the terrorists in Iraq.

If we withdraw before Iraqi forces can defend their new government, catastrophic consequences will reverberate throughout the world -- way beyond Iraq. Iraq will become a terrorist-sponsoring hotbed for global jihad and a springboard for incalculable Middle East instability. The global jihadists will be emboldened with this major victory and the war will be prolonged indefinitely as a result.

Before "shock and awe," Democrats had impaired vision concerning the nature and scope of the global terrorist threat. But since then, Iraq has become their blinding obsession. If they were naively oblivious to the threat before, they are recklessly obtuse today.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Berated by idiots
Yeah the Lib/Lefty crappy comments are just part & parcel for any & all dissent from their illogical and increasingly shrill & unreasonable rants. It is tiresome but does give everyone a chance to see the L/L concept of Freedom of Speech for ME but not for THEE. They will never discuss facts on any issue...but it is better to expose these budding Brown Shirts for all to see!
We need to be aware of these enemies within!

Try again
Christopher Hitchens is a liberal but Neocons are liberals also, so I don't see what your point is.

I'm not saying anyone should be purged from the deabte. I'm saying that General Sada needs to provide evidence for his claims -- assertion isn't evidence. David Kay and Charles Duelfer did not uncover a single facility that would engaged in producing biological or chemical weapons, so what weapons could've been sent to Syria? Did General Sada personally witness the illicit shipment or did he hear it from another source?

In short, there are thousands of people claiming all sorts of things and I don't have time to worry about assertions unless you can provide some evidence.

Everyone
I am beginning to get very disturbed about the lib comments to every single TH article. We are being berated by idiots who have nothing else in mind than to make us look bad - and they're succeeding. Intelligence, logic, integrity are totally missing, and a lot of people here bother to answer their comments just to be put down in the very next lib comments. Why does anybody answer Tanabear and the likes. Starve them and hopefully they'll go away. If they don't, continue ignoring them until they get bored. Then they go back to where they belong. Can't we just discuss among ourselves in a civilized manner what matters to us. I'm sorry, but I cannot take much more of their BS.

Everyone
I am beginning to get very disturbed about the lib comments to every single TH article. We are being berated by idiots who have nothing else in mind than to make us look bad - and they're succeeding. Intelligence, logic, integrity are totally missing, and a lot of people here bother to answer their comments just to be put down in the very next lib comments. Why does anybody answer Tanabear and the likes. Starve them and hopefully they'll go away. If they don't, continue ignoring them until they get bored. Then they go back to where they belong. Can't we just discuss among ourselves in a civilized manner what matters to us. I'm sorry, but I cannot take much more of their BS.

Tanabear
Perhaps there is an Iraqi 'Napoleon' waiting in the wings to take over.

Very good point. Don't often agree with you but this is thought provoking.

Gregdn....
you posted, "There was nothing that Gore could've done or not done in the eight months preceding 9/11 to change the outcome."

That obviously is diametrically opposite to the leftists' argument that 911 was the fault of Bush's complete failure to heed the "warnings" and "connect the dots."

So which is it? Gore couldn't possibly have prevented 911 but Bush could have and didn't?

Seems a little contradictory.


Been there, done that
I've read that article by Christopher Hitchens before and it is filled with the typical Neocon talking points. The Robb-Silbermann commission has weighed in on the issue and declared in no uncertain terms that Iraq did not ever seek uranium from Africa. That is why Colin Powell never mentioned the claim in his presentation before the United Nations.

General Sada has no corroborating evidence to substantiate his claim that Iraq moved chemical and biological weapons to Syria. If you want to argue that Iraq did in fact send weapons to Syria then you must first establish the prior fact that Iraq was producing biological and chemical weapons. This requires proof, not speculation and conjecture. So let me try again: tell me the name of the biological and chemical weapon facillity that Iraq was using to churn out its WMD? So far no one in the entire Bush cult universe has been able to help me with this.

Will you...?

The last time an Iraqi defector provided us with useful information was in 1995 -- the defection of Lt Gen. Hussein Kamel. Since then not one Iraqi defector has provided us with accurate intelligence. Why should Sada be any different? Can anything he says be verified? Or do you expect me to take him at his word? Did he identify the facilities that were producing WMD? Or did he not have access to that information?


flame on
Here's a response by David Corn to the Christopher Hitchen's article that pitbull posted.

http://www.slate.com/id/2150345

And then here's a response by Hitchens to the criticism:

http://www.slate.com/id/2150433/

Seems like these two have a nice little flame war going on. I like flame wars. Please continue.

Here's a summary Bill O' Riley's thoughts on WMD's (scroll to the middle and then there's another bit at the end) in which he admits that if he KNEW there weren't WMDs he wouldn't have been for the invasion:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/10/27/153334.shtml

MyOpine -
Are you talking about the baby milk factory that got bombed in Iraq in 1991? That doesn't really seem that useful to building a case that Saddam had weapons in 2003. I guess it wouldn't surprise me if they tried the same trick twice.

Prove the negative? I thought that was the weapon's inspector's job. I doubt any of us have much more insight than they did. Of course, you COULD denounce them as liberal flunkies. Because if they're not with you, then they're against you, surely. I mean, the idea that anyone can be impartial - like a judge or jurist - is just absurd. We're all just horrible selfish people out to further our own agenda. Boy. Wouldn't the world be a great place if everyone just thought just like me. Oh wait. Then I couldn't watch flame wars. Skip that. Diversity for the sake of arguments.


No weapons factories?
Why did that big factory complex in the North of Iraq have such a large military guard?
Anyone who thinks they can prove he DID NOT have WMD please step forward and prove the negative.

AND that QUESTIONABLE baby formula factory had exactly the proper equipment to manufacture biological weapons.
And the truck rigged to fill chemical shells?
And all the chemical agents they dug up?

And all that chemical crap they dumped into the Tigress came from someplace.
Anyone remember these things on the news?

No weapons
No weapons were sent to Syria because Saddam Hussein wasn't developing any WMD. If he was, the matter could be solved simply by stating the name of the factory where the weapons were produced. No one can identify these factories because they do not exist.

And if there were no weapon factories to produce weapons that also implies no weapons were transferred to Syria.

The people who now say the weapons weren't there are David Kay, Charles Duelfer, George Will, President Bush himself and so on.

The people who should not be trusted are those in the Bush Administration, especially those around Cheney, who are responsible for lying this country into war.






Put up or...
pitbull,

So tell me the name of biological or chemical weapon facilty that was producing WMD in 2002 and early 2003?
I await your response,

Not really
Pitbull writes: "in regard to your incorrect assumptions and assertions about WMDs, the programs and their existence please refer to a gentleman who was in charge of said programs and materials General Sada - I think he is in a much more reasonable position to determine the actual state of affairs in Iraq than Hans Blix and the corrupt cronies of the church of liberalism-"

First of all it is not just the "church of liberalism" that says Iraq did not have any WMD, but the entire intelligence community as well as the President himself. The Bush cultists, I suppose, have not yet been informed that this is not longer a partisan issue, but that has been firmly settled. I also find it ironic that you would cite General Sada as a credible source when we know for certain that Iraqi defectors have been entirely unreliable in their testimony. Amhed Chalabi's INC was little more than a CIA funded lie factory that helped put the shine on Cheney's propaganda campaign for the Iraq war. Of course if you really want me -- or anyone -- to believe that Iraq was producing WMD in 2002 and early 2003, why don't you name the actual chemical and biological weapon facilities? So far not a single soul has been able to identify such a place, because no such place exists.

Bigmac writes, "if Sadam had no WMD after 1991 (your words), why was the Clinton adminstration so adamant that he did have WMD?"

Since Iraq eliminated its WMD outside the supervision of the United Nations Iraq's WMD are "unnacounted for." However, intelligence is an always changing and fluid process and the information we had in Iraq under Hans Blix was casting doubt on all U.S. intelligence claims regarding Iraq's WMD. In fact, the United Nations left Iraq saying there was no evidence of any WMD programs in Iraq, and this was after acting on the best intelligence provided by the United States and Britain. The "best intellligence" turned out to lies, fabrications, and forgeries -- what a case to build a war on.

"if Iraqis don't want freedom, why did they vote for it?"

When did the Iraqis vote for freedom? There is no freedom in Iraq. Freedom (or liberty) is a social atmosphere in which institutions and norms that support private property, the rule of law, freedom of religion and speech, and internal harmony among the people prevail. Voting is not freedom; overthrowing a tyrant is not freedom. You have a very simplistic and elementary definition of freedom if you equate it with voting and "democracy."

"Even if he didn't, it seems from his actions that he was still going in that direction. Bush was wrong about Sadam having WMD, but he was right about removing Sadam."

I think it's interesting that you would make this argument because the reason for invading Iraq was not because Saddam Hussein was in power, but because Iraq was amassing dangerous weapons that could potentially kill millions. Without weapons, there is no case for invading Iraq. However, saying that Bush was right to remove Saddam doesn't capture the entire consequences of our invasion. We did capture Saddam Hussein, but we also triggered a Sunni insurgency and now we've triggered a civil war as Iraq begins to fly apart at the seams. So would you argue that Bush was right to start a civil war in Iraq that resulted in tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths and tens of thousands of U.S. casualties? If you do, then you are just a blind supporter of President Bush without an ounce of morality.










CUT AND RUN from “STAY THE COURSE!”
WE GET THE GOVERNMENT WE DESERVE… and, boy, we’ve really been getting it for the last few years! Truth, values, competence and results no longer matter in America.

The problem: our President is not a rational thinker – his mind accepts information from only two sources: faith and experience. For example, he learned the "the enemy will follow us here" from Vietnam and the Domino Theory: “If we don’t defeat the communists in Vietnam, then we’ll have to fight them here in America.” Now just insert “terrorists” and “Iraq” into the one lesson Bush learned from Vietnam.

Because Bush is not rational (strictly empirical and subjective), objective facts and evidence such as the latest National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) are meaningless to this anachronistic man of several millennia ago. The reality of Iraq is what he thinks it is, and so our country and our precious soldiers are in for a lot more of this growing tragedy, incompetent strategy and SPIN, SPIN, SPIN.

David Mac
It wouldn't have mattered who won the election, the same number would've died on 9/11. There was nothing that Gore could've done or not done in the eight months preceding 9/11 to change the outcome.
I think Bush was right to suspect Saddam had WMD, but he should've just let the weapons inspectors do their job.

Tanabear . . .
if Sadam had no WMD after 1991 (your words), why was the Clinton adminstration so adamant that he did have WMD?

Even if he didn't, it seems from his actions that he was still going in that direction. Bush was wrong about Sadam having WMD, but he was right about removing Sadam.

If Bush had lost 2000 election, and Al Gore was president, would 3,000 or 30,000 have died on 911?

Bush took an unpopular stance on this war but, IMO, he took the only stance that would keep us safe. Cutting-and-Running strategy wouldn't have worked.


I had to ask.
There's a moonbat, hi Kimberly!
Are you the expert, making the call that what is "really needed here" is bi-lateral talks?
Yeah, uh sure, that worked SO well in the 1990's-

I wonder where all
the moonbats are today, so much material for them to gleefully gloat over...
It is challenging, to say the least, to attempt to have constructive discussions on the state of affairs in our country, while being forced to endure nothing but the female tauntings and catfighting that comes from Democrats. The pandering and hollowness, the absolute lack of a soul, what absolute vacant human beings........

Red Tooth . . .
if Iraqis don't want freedom, why did they vote for it?

Was life under Sadam so idyllic?

Most Iraqis want what most people in the world want: to live their lives in peace and prosperity, free from fear.

Most of Iraq is peaceful. The MSM only portrays the violence and insinuates that it's universal throughout Iraq, and Red Tooth and other socialists buy into that 100%.

If the Iraqis really wanted the US out of Iraq and stated that publically, don't you think we'd be gone from there immediately?

Experts
David Limbaugh offhandedly mentions the "Many experts" who don't think military actions in Iran or North Korea would involve "boots on the ground." Does this reassure anybody? Does anybody remember the specially selected "experts" in the runup to Iraq who publicly declared that the whole shebang would be over with in a matter of weeks? What about the experts who were certain Saddam was dead after the first US display of "shock and awe"? What about the "experts" who insisted that Iraq would be a stable, thriving, Western-style democracy, citing as proof Japan after WWII, as if that model could, by the shear force of will, be superimposed on a country where different conditions prevailed? Experts are just people. They know a lot about their specialties (the legitimate ones do, anyway), but they also have their own agendas like everyone else.
I'm not even going to attempt to point out the fallacies in Limbaugh's shallow, tired defense of the Iraq war. They should be obvious to anyone. At this point, all I can do is give him meager props for his apparently unshakable loyalty to the band of apes currently occupying the halls of power.

Limbaugh's article
Iraq a stumbling block for Democrats? That's a laugh. Anyone who watched Bush 'stumble' through his latest plan for 'victory' in Iraq the other day knows that's not true. The best thing that could happen for the Democrats would be to lose this election and just let Bush 'twist in the breeze' for another two years.

John Konop: You make some excellent points. Solving the Palestinian problem is most important to the Islamic world (as the Arab nations recently told Condi) but we choose to ignore it.

A Conservative Plan for Iraq
controlcongress.com

Anyone who questions the lack of a realistic and comprehensive Iraq strategy is labeled a friend of fascism by the Republican leadership. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) recently said, “I wonder if [Democrats] are more interested in protecting the terrorists than protecting the American people.” Republicans are paralyzed with the fear of being thought ineffective on national security and the war.

Meanwhile, the Democratic leadership cannot seem to accept that—regardless of how we got there—we are in Iraq. They have not made a convincing case that an arbitrary phased or date-certain troop withdrawal is in the best long-term interest of the United States. Rather, they seem to think that withdrawal will undo the decision to have gone to war. Rubbing President Bush’s nose in Iraq’s difficulties is also a priority.

This political food fight is stifling the desperately needed public discussion about a meaningful resolution to the fire fight. Most Americans know Iraq is going badly. And they know the best path lies somewhere between “stay the course” and “get out now”.

Some Truths

1) Iraq is having a civil war between the Sunnis and Shiites. The Kurds will certainly join, if attacked. It may not look like a civil war, because they don’t have tanks, helicopters, and infantry; but they are fighting with what they have.

2) Vast oil revenues are a significant factor behind the fighting. Yes, there are religious and cultural differences—but concerns about how the oil revenue will be split among the three groups make the problem worse.

3) Most Iraqis support partitioning Iraq into Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish regions. (Their current arrangement resulted from a pen stroke during the British occupation, not some organic alignment.)

4) Most citizens of the Middle East who support groups that kill and terrorize civilians—such as Hezbollah, Hamas, or al Qaeda—in part because of their aggressive stance against Israel and the United States, but also because they provide much needed social services, such as building schools.

5) Both Republican and Democratic administrations have spent decades doing business with the tyrants who run the Middle East in exchange for oil and cheap labor. This has been the one of the rallying calls of Bin Laden and Hezbollah—that we support tyrants who abuse people for profits. In fact, our latest trade deals with Oman and Jordan actually promote child and slave labor; it’s so bad the State Department had to issue warnings about rampant child trafficking in those countries.

6) Iran is using the instability in Iraq to enhance its political stature in the region. Leaving Iraq without a government that can stand up to Iran would be very destabilizing to the region and the world.

From the U.S. perspective, this is all mostly about energy. As things stand, a serious oil supply disruption would devastate our economy, threaten our security, and jeopardize our ability to provide for our children.

New Directions

Success in Iraq and the Middle East in general requires us to work in three areas simultaneously: (1) fostering a more stable Middle East region, including Iraq, (2) pursuing alternative sources of oil, and (3) developing alternatives to oil. To these ends we must:

1) Insure that the oil revenues are fairly and transparently split among all three groups: Shiite, Sunni, and Kurds based on population.

2) Allow each group to have a much stronger role in self government by creating three virtually-autonomous regions. Forcing a united Iraq down their throats is not working. Our military would then be there in support a solution that people want, rather than one they are resisting.

3) Become a genuine force for positive change, thus denying extremist groups much of their leverage. Driving a fair two-state solution to the Israeli/Palestinian problem should be our first priority. We should also engage in projects that both help the average Middle Easterner and Americans, such as supporting schools that are an alternative to the ones that teach hate and recruit terrorists. We should also stop participating in trade deals that promote child and slave labor by insisting on deals that include livable wages and basic labor rights.

4) Declare a Marshal Plan to end our Middle Eastern energy dependency with a compromise between exploring for new sources, reducing consumption, and developing of alternative energies. For example, we should re-establish normal relations with Cuba so we can beat China to Cuba’s off-shore oil. We should also redirect existing tax breaks for Big Oil into loan guarantees for alternative energy companies.

Once we no longer need so much oil from the Middle East, we can begin winning over its people by using our oil purchases to reward positive and peaceful behavior from their leaders. This would ultimately reduce tensions and encourage prosperity in the region.

We will have to live with the threat of Islamic radical terrorism forever; but these solutions are a start to reducing the threat. Both parties have to put politics aside and put together an honest and reasonable plan that the American understand.


Iraq war
Reading the defenses of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq continue to grow ever more convulted -- especially in the specious hands of David Limabugh.

I notice the new angle is to give up the idea that Iraq was actually in possession of WMD and just invent a hypothetical scenario in which Iraq would develop nuclear, biological and chemical weapons -- and in turn provide them to "terrorists" -- had we not invaded Iraq. Of course anyone can justify anything if you are permitted to invent whatever scenario suits your purpose. Of course Iraq was no closer to developing nuclear weapons in 2003 than they were in 1998.

Iraq was not a sponsor of global jihad -- in fact Iraq was a secular government that permitted Christianity and other religions.

However, these facts would never be known from reading Limbaugh's column. One would think that Iraq was sponsoring terrorism against the United States, was an Islamic state promoting a radical form of Islam throughout the world, and was at war with the United States. All of this is false. Iraq was collapsing into disarray due to the brutal United Nations embargo and its people, its military, and its economy were in ruin.

Iraq has now exploded into civil war. Violence is returning, Islamic law taking root, tribal militias are more effective than the "trained" Iraqi army, and the US military cannot keep order. What was it all for?

Bush has succeeded in starting a civil war, wasting billions of dollars and causing ten of thousands of US casualties.

But it appears Mr Limbaugh's absurdities know no bounds:" Our attack on Iraq certainly hastened and accelerated the hostilities in that theater, because the jihadists weren't about to allow Iraq to taste freedom and self-rule at the behest of the Great Satan"

Mr Limbaugh is now inventing a fairy-tale -- that the violence in Iraq is a battle between Iraqis who want "freedom" and the jihadists who don't. This part of the war is entirely a figment of his imagination. Does Muktada al-Sadr desire freedom? Does the al-Dawa Party who wants to bring Iraq under the influence of Iran's theocrats desire freedom?

Democracy in Iraq will just allow the radical Muslims to sieze the Iraqi government and use it for their own ends. There is no desire for freedom in Iraq. However, Mr Limbaugh must continue to perpetuate this absurdity to keep it the war as simple as possible: freedom versus jihad. When in fact the reality is more complex: Iraq has shattered into tribal feuds where new strongmen are vying for power. You can call this "freedom" but it's only more dishonesty.

But dishonesty is the only weapon the Bush cultists have left.



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