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Friday, September 08, 2006
David Limbaugh :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats' gloating premature
by David Limbaugh
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


I wonder if Democrats are getting the slightest bit nervous about the news -- hot off the presses -- that Iraqi security forces are actually taking over primary control of defense operations in Iraq. That might not bode well for their prospects to recapture control of Congress.

One of the Democrats' major complaints has been that we have been too slow in training Iraqi troops, thereby delaying the end or significant downscaling of the American presence there. Of course the Democrats' criticism here is not a policy matter, but one of military implementation. So when they blame President Bush for the delays, they are actually blaming the military they claim to support. It is ludicrous to suggest that President Bush wouldn't do everything he could, at the policy level, to expedite the training of Iraqi troops.

This is just one illustration of how events beyond either party's immediate control could have a dramatic impact on the November elections. Things can change weekly in the war, which is why it is risky for Democrats to put all their campaign eggs in the Iraq basket.

Actually, a more accurate metaphor would be that they have put no eggs in the war policy basket, but have been trying merely to destroy the eggs President Bush has placed in the basket. They are relying exclusively on deriding President Bush's policies, while conspicuously and defiantly offering no alternative policy agenda of their own.

When pressed for a plan, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Sen. Harry Reid, and DNC Chairman Howard Dean have all said, in effect, that it isn't incumbent on Democrats to come up with a plan; their naked criticism is sufficient.

When further pressed, they promised to present a plan but repeatedly missed their deadlines to produce it. Finally, they did present a "plan," which was nothing more than a broad statement of policy goals that were not that different in substance from current policy. They said they wanted to effect a transition of control to Iraqi forces during 2006. Well, who doesn't?

Oh, I almost forgot, they also said their leadership would be "tough and smart," which doubtlessly had Osama quaking in his boots.

The revelation that the Iraqi forces are about to take over -- the transition is projected to be completed by the end of 2007 -- will take the wind out of the sails of the only semblance of a plan the Democrats have offered. So the news -- if it holds -- both emasculates their empty criticism and exposes their non-plan as a moot nonstarter.

Apart from this news, I'm still not joining the hand wringers over predictions of a Democratic sweep in November, because before the election they'll have to offer something beyond specious criticism. When that time comes, it will be plain for most to see that they have nothing constructive to contribute.

Even their rainy day demands for immediate (or almost immediate) withdrawal have been shown to be disingenuous. When Republicans called their bluff and forced the issue to a vote, they folded. When critics challenged John Kerry on his irresponsible withdrawal demands, he denied making them, kind of like he denies his liberalism. He sputtered such inanities as "I'm not for immediate withdrawal, but timetables for success," and other such embarrassing gibberish." It is difficult to take these people seriously on these very serious issues.

Democrats face another obstacle in their salivating quest to regain control: President Bush has begun to fight back with a vigor we haven't seen in months. He has been deliberate, aggressive, assertive and persuasive in his recent war speeches, making it clear that only he and Republicans offer any real credible war leadership.

Democrats are quite upset that President Bush is fighting back, something they don't think he ought to be allowed to do. But he is, and none too soon. He's in their faces, just where he ought to be, remaking the case for utilizing the necessary tools to prosecute the war, like the NSA terrorist surveillance program. It was no accident that he labeled it thus, rather than acquiescing to the Democrats' deceptive mischaracterization of it as "domestic spying" on innocent old ladies. He must continue with similarly direct rhetoric, challenging each and every other myth the liberals have advanced.

While I'm not dismissive of the possibility that Democrats could regain congressional control in November, the elections are still the Republicans to lose. The Republicans' real risk comes from disgruntled conservatives who have threatened to stay home over immigration and domestic spending, which would be a mistake with disastrous consequences for the national interest. Conservatives must not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Unless they do, Democrats will certainly not recapture control.

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About The Author
David Limbaugh, brother of radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, is an expert in law and politics and author of Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today's Democratic Party.
 
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Democrat Plan?
Oxymoron.

Terrorists Following Us
What makes you think the terrorists aren't here already?

The point in building Iraq up as a democracy is to remove one place where they can freely and openly meet, plan, train, acquire goods and weapons, etc. Just because we have terrorists as a fact of life doesn't need we have to make it easy for them.

Partitioning is probably going to happen whether we like it or not. See:

http://www.reason.com/0608/fe.mt.the.shtml

The only thing holding the Kurds back at this point is a sense of proper timing.

Would a Democrat House be that Bad?
Quoth Limbaugh: "Conservatives must not let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

I'm not convinced this would really be all that bad.

With a Republican President and Senate, and a Democrat house, we might just have the perfect gridlock.

If we get another "grand slam", where President, Senate, and House are all Republicans, what assurances do we have they won't go on another spending spree? One that makes the previous one look miserly in comparison? None. None whatsoever.

The *only* thing that appears to keep government growth even *slightly* in check is having it be difficult for one party to get their way thanks to "principled" obstruction from the other party. ("Principled", of course, loosely translated as really meaning "partison.")

Partition
Partition won't work. If you liked the break up of Yugoslavia you'll love the break up of Iraq. All that blood and death. Partition; the Koreas, India and Pakistan, China and Taiwan, Ireland, Serbia and Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia, Cyprus, and that sparkling example - Israel and Palestine.

Yeap, partition is the road to peace, alrighty.

Partition of this country
The democrats tried to partition this country into North and South in 1861. It might have worked if that war mongering Republican President had not invaded in a so-called war of liberation.

democrats convinced Repulicans to pull out of the south before the job was done paving the way for roving gangs of terrorists known as the KKK to thwart the democratic process.

All I can say is
Speaker of the House - Nancy Pelosi
Gives me the Heebie-Jeebies!

Republicans Don't Deserve to Win
I'm with UncaAlby. I'm not so sure that divided government would be all that bad -- though my preference would be for the Republicans to hold onto the House and lose the Senate even though conventional wisdom says that it is more likely the other way around. Clearly Republican control of government has not advanced conservatism in any way, shape, or form. As long as the Republicans continue to hold the reigns of power there will be absolutely no incentive for them to return to their conservative roots. Newt Gingrich did not create the Contract with America because at the time of its creation he was Speaker of the House overseeing a Republican House. He was on the outside looking in. Unfortunately, I think that the only way for the Republican Party to reform its ways is if it is once again on the outside looking in.

I'm not advocating a blind rejection of any and all Republicans or incumbents as some have suggested. I'm advocating a blind rejection of any and all RINO's. If I lived in Pennsylvania then I would be voting for Rick Santorum. However if I lived in Indiana I would definitely not vote for Mike Pence due to his betrayal on the issue of immigration. In other words, for me it is not about Republican or Democrat -- it's about conservative or RINO liberal or more importantly it's about the issues I hold dearest. I will no longer vote for someone because I consider them the lesser of two evils. Sorry you've got to do better than that. And by the way... Never, Never, Never will I ever vote for a Democrat. I'd either not vote or vote for a conservative 3rd party candidate if confronted with a RINO choice in any given election.

The Iraq attack
Tanabear states the Iraq attaq(sic)was a fiasco.It was not.The "plan" in going in was to remove a vicious dictator(accomplished),install a democratic government(accomplished),train a capable military controlled by the democratic government(accomplished Thursday)) and to eliminate Iraq as a base for terror training(accomplished).Get it?

Plan...
...we don't need no stinking plan! The plan is to constantly repeat that Bush lied...halliburon...inspections...containment...IED...Bush lied...no WMD...until people believe it!

Or we'll just wait for the NYT editorial page to tell us what to do, since they are the brains behind the party anyway.

NRAlifer
ROFL, I like your comparison of liberals with Homer Simpson, except Homer (despite his well-meaning, but misguided actions) always seems to end up alright by the end of the show.

I think comparing liberals to Gilligan would be more accurate. No matter what others may do to succeed, liberals always do their best to ensure everyone is left stranded.

Democrats are gloating Mr. Limbaugh?
Doesnt anyone else find it quite odd that Mr. David Limbaugh fails to back the title of his article with not ONE quote from a democratic politician "gloating" about premature victory come November midterm elections.

It's the same thing with the accusation of "appeasement to terrorist" that repubs/cons make against democrats..When pressed to name a single democrat in Congress that believes terrorist can be appeased, they can name a single one.

What all this shows is that Republicans are scared to death of what pundits are predicting:

that democrats could take over one or both houses of Congress due to a majority of U.S.
citizens disenchantment & disapproval of President Bush and the Republican Congress on domestic and especially foreign policy issues.
They are both very unpopular and unless something major happens very soon to break for the republicans, their worst nightmare may very well come true:

A return to divided government.

David Limbaugh and his ilk are shaking in their boots.

r0_d1
More utter inaccuracies, yet again. But what would we expect from your ilk?

You got your information from a USAToday "news" article. It was nothing but a political hatchet job, and the irrefutable proof of this is the fact that on the online version of the story, they ommitted the cute little chart showing the "correct" deficits during the Clinton administration. It is in those charts that proves the story was bunk to begin with because using their version of "accounting", Clinton had actually run "deficits" that exceeded the entire GDP of the nation, far, far, FAR exceeding anything Bush ever ran.

Now why would they ommit said chart in the online version? What, did they realize after print that their little chart would have one of two effects: 1) make Clinton seem like less of the "bestest pwezident in da hole wyde werld" like they think he is, or 2) would crush any credibility they may have had because it would prove their entire story was a crock.

Here's a hint: start getting your "information" from some other source than McPaper.

Left Angle
Are you serious?!? You have no idea of how weak liberals are on defense or terrorism?!? Is your TV stuck on MSNBC?

I don't have all day to do research for you, but as you requested, here are a few good quotes for you.

"The idea that we're going to win this war is an idea that unfortunately is just plain wrong."
Howard Dean

"There is no reason Bob that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night terrorizing kids and children, you know, women."
John Kerry

Replying to a question that if bin Laden should be caught, whether to put him to death: "I've resisted pronouncing a sentence before guilt is found. I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials."
Howard Dean

"The war on terrorism cannot be won by waging war. … Crime requires police work, not military action."
George Soros

"After 9/11, the U.S. government should have vowed to see justice done, but by the force of law only, never by the law of force."
William Coffin

“We killed the Patriot Act!” Minority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, to cheers from a crowd at a democrat political rally after the vote.

"He betrayed this country! He played on our fears! He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure pre-ordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place!"
Al Gore

"One could say that Osama bin Laden and these non-nation-state fighters with religious purpose are very similar to those kind of atypical revolutionaries that helped to cast off the British crown."
Marcy Kaptur - Democratic Representative Ohio

"He's (Osama bin Laden) been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day-care facilities, building health-care facilities, and these people are extremely grateful. We haven't done that."
Patty Murray- Democratic Senator

"I know on September 11, we were all evacuated from the building, and we found ourselves standing outside—most of us. I was whisked away with no place to go. We ended up on the top floor of the police headquarters. We pulled the shades down, thinking that might make us more secure." (unbelievable!!!)
Tom Daschle - Democratic Senator South Dakota

"The ACLU is determined to hold the Bush administration responsible not just for torture and abuse of detainees, but for the many other abuses of power that are taking place in the name of fighting terrorism."
Anthony Romero- Executive Director of the ACLU

This list could go on forever, especially if I started including the liberal "celebrities".

I am convinced that if we improved education in this country liberals would cease to exist.





In all creation...
the hen is the wisest of all animals. For she does not cluck until the egg is laid. - A. Lincoln

Elections
Remember that 40 Republican Senators are not up for election, meaning that losing the Senate would require at least 40% (6 of 15) of Republican incumbents to lose.

This would be a loss of almost unprecedented scale, and just ain't gonna happen.

Republicans who mention the possibility of the Democrats taking the Senate are just setting up the post-election spin, where the loss of two, three, or even four Senate seats is a Republican "victory."

Icedog 101: Are YOU serious..
republicans being "stronger on national defense"
is a "myth" spread by rnc talking points thru its politicians...

there is absolutely no historical basis for this misleading mantra of republicans..in fact historically it has been democrats that have taken decisive military action to defend the u.s.

truman: dropped the atom bomb on japan

fdr: defeated hitler in ww2

jfk: stood down the ussr in the cuban missile crisis.

Republicans have NOTHING to compare to these DEMOCRATIC accomplishments...

Weak On national Security? Republicans believe that throwing money at the dod makes them stronger on national security..they dont back it up with action.

And if youre using Bush's Iraq war as an example of Repub "strength on National security" lets get real..It's been a total fiasco and failure totaled by one boneheaded mistake after another.

If you think that democrats wont use military force to defend the U.S. against its enemies then you are rnc brainwashed fool. lol

Left Angle
Instead of dissecting your post, let me ask you one question, and try to answer honestly.

If Truman, FDR, or JFK were politicians today, do you think today's liberal democrats would elect them?

Elections
BS Detector writes: Remember that 40 Republican Senators are not up for election, meaning that losing the Senate would require at least 40% (6 of 15) of Republican incumbents to lose.


There is about as much chance of the democrats losing a seat as there is of the Republicans losing one or two seats. But then I read where the democrats are hedging their bets and are no longer treating Lieberman like a red headed step child. Had they kept up the trash talk they may have had an independent Lieberman - at least until they kicked Howlin Dean out of the head office of the DNC.

Top that?
Left Angle writes:
there is absolutely no historical basis for this misleading mantra of republicans..

truman: dropped the atom bomb on japan - and gave up North Korea - a problem we face to this day.

fdr: defeated hitler in ww2 - actually he was dead before it happened. But before he kicked the bucket he managed ensure we lost the peace by giving away half of Europe to a regime that killed more people then Hitler ever dreamed of. Our Crusade in Europe netted us France and half of Germany, should have let him have it.

jfk: stood down the ussr in the cuban missile crisis. He brought the world to the brink of exstinction so that the very same missiles could be installed a year later. But he made up for it by dragging the US into to Vietnam.


You're right, who wants to try and top that?

Are you gonna be stay at home GOPs?
Some of you amaze me. With potentially the greatest threat to the things we hold dearly you are pouting because the president didn't do things exactly your way. Sorry boys, but you may as well join the Dim whining party if that is the case - a Dim sweep in Congress will be just like when you all voted for Perot. Care to re-imagine the next eight years as a result.
Tanabear - you need to keep better company. Sorry, partitioning Iraq is the most ridiculous notion your side has suggested albeit the only one with any thought.
And for those who feel the Dems will be stronger than the president on defense rememeber it was John Kerry, your most recent exec candidate who promised us he would march into the UN and seek resolution in Iraq and the war against jihad. In light of the UN's recent, and past, history that seems rather impotent as a war strategy, no?
It's better to be red than dead these days boys.

What were the Repub Accomplishments?
each of the things i listed had a bottom line result of u.s. military victory due to decisive action taken by a DEMOCRATIC president. carp all you want about it...fact is democrats have a decided edge on repubs on national defense historically.

and i noticed none of you listed any repub accomplisments that even come close because basically there are none..

oh yeah...reagan won the cold war..highly debatable...

icedog: sure of course they would be electable
by todays liberal democrats..I really dont know where you are getting your information that todays democtrats dont believe in defending the u.s against its enemies..that is utter nonsense
and it baffles me that so called intelligent repubs/cons believe it.

again?
Left Angle writes: What were the Repub Accomplishments?
each of the things i listed had a bottom line result of u.s. military victory due to decisive action taken by a DEMOCRATIC president.

Military victory? Please show the military victory in Europe, Korea, Vietnam, and Iran.


Roosevelt won when he let Eisenhower and McAurther run the war. Truman lost when he stuck his fingers into Korea. Kennedy lost his nerve in Cuba and LBJ lost his nerve in Vietnam.

Democratic Party Left a long time ago
Sorry Lefty, today's Democratic party is the party of Whoopy Goldberg, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, Bill and Hill and John Kerry. I'll remind you, as did Senator Bentson, that none of these are any "JFK's".
Being a converted Reagan Democrat I can tell you I abhor the notions of your party today. To your party's credit you have transferred America's animous from gay marriage, big spending, weak on defence and abortion to hating the president (well done!).
Granted, most presidents have had resolve when our nation has been pushed into war. The gleaming exception is Jimmy Carter whom you all trot out as some form or irrefutabel senior statesman. Isn't he entertaining a radical Imam this week? Guess Fidel and Hugo were busy.
You have some nerve comparing the Dem party of today to that of Scoop Jackson and Warren Magnuson.

Coach: Stop reading rnc talking points..
I'll reapeat what i told the other:

"If you truly believe that the Democratic Party would NOT use military force to defend the U.S.
against its enemies then you are a rnc brainwashed fool."

that is an absolutely ridiculous and absurd accusation that cannot be taken seriously by intelligent human beings who live in the usa.
futhermore the conceit of repubs/cons that they and only they know how to fight a war on terror
is equally absurd..hey look at the results the party of Karl Rove, Bush and Rumsfield is accomplishing...Maybe you haven looked recently
but their approval ratings are in the 30's in most major polls and that is tantamount to failure.

I rest my case. lol

slightly skewed history
"The democrats tried to partition this country into North and South in 1861. It might have worked if that war mongering Republican President had not invaded in a so-called war of liberation."

Who fired the first shot? Oh yeah, PGT Beauregard's boys (actually, a civilian fired the very first shot). They started shooting simply because Lincoln refused to give up Fort Sumter. Was it posturing or begging for it? Don't know. Could be.

The Democrats themselves were divided prior to 1860. Remember the Fire-Eaters? That fatally divided the Dem party allowing the GOP win.

Prior to emancipation, Lincoln put the war forward as a war of unification. Lincoln himself said he would have liked to put emnacipation forward earlier, but was worried "half the officer corps would fling down its arms in disgust". Fredrick Douglas lobbied for black troops, but the President wouldn't hear him until late in the war when more manpower was needed.

Democrats in charge
Left Angle writes: "If you truly believe that the Democratic Party would NOT use military force to defend the U.S. against its enemies then you are a rnc brainwashed fool."



Actually it may become an issue that the US military will REFUSE to act on a democrat president's order. Ever check the stats for the number of suicides that occurred under Herr Klinton? Army retention was much lower under his administration then currently - even during a real shooting war. All of which emphasize the horrible moral issues the existed in the 1990s. More then once this was conferred among the Sunday Morning talking heads when they discussed the possibility of Kerry being Kommander and Chief.

Real Dems gone, Real Reps gone
There were significant accomplishments on both sides of the aisle. Response to verious situations have led to significant success for the time. Sure there were side effects but the problems of the world are not simple.

The situation now is:

The friends of Iran now run the government in Iraq thanks to the US.

The warlords and opium dealers run Afgainistan thanks to us.

Condi makes Hezbollah the victors in Lebanon and some want to elect her president.

We are spending billions on Iraq and the leakage (likely billions of dollars) is ending up in the hands of the terrorists.

China and Russian brush us aside like a ant and spend our money in Iran yet we continue to spend money on communist manufactured goods because we like cheap stuff.

We open our borders only to benefit the large corporations and to garner their contributions to political campaigns.

I can not imagine a worse situation for the citizens of the US. I cannot imagine the leaders of the past accepting the situation we are in. The Dems and Reps of the past are no more. This endless bikering like this blog are worthless. It is now only about greed, "we the people" dont matter anymore. Its all about the money.

At the Risk of Being Called Names

r0_d1

Your lament about GOP National Debt Lies is somewhat disingenuous because the slippery slope began with the New Deal instituted by Democratic Party’s patron saint, FDR: and continued with his protégé, LBJ and his ‘War and Poverty’.


Conservative Servicemembers
There have been many posts here comparing political parties and national defense, but I would like to make an observation.

I've been in the military since 1986 and I can safely say that 85-90% of career servicemembers are conservatives. I believe this is due to a combination of factors.

1. Wisdom. I’ve lived in six foreign countries, including three in Europe (and visited dozens of others). I’ve seen firsthand the damage caused by unbridled liberalism/socialism.

2. History. Military members know from history and firsthand experience that during peacetime and at war they will be supported by Republicans, but may be left hanging in the breeze by democrats.

3. Values. Military members tend to have traditional values concerning family, marriage, religion, country, etc. and these values are like kryptonite to democrats.

4. Pride. Conservatives don’t believe their country is perfect, but they are proud and thankful to be Americans and don’t spend every waking moment disparaging their country and what it stands for. No way could you volunteer to possibly sacrifice your life for your country if you didn’t feel this way.

Liberals can sit at Starbucks or Berkley and speculate about these comments, but these are things I’ve learned through direct observation, not by listening to NPR or reading the NYT.

I am positive that any current or prior military members on this site will concur.

Funny document
If you check out the treeasury dept. documents you suggest, you will notice your huge numbers come off page 8 of the "position statement" (combined budget) where Bush's comes off page 7 (statement of operations). Admittedly, these numbers make the debt look smaller, but they are also the numbers EVERY sitting politican has used! So, of course Bush will use the smaller numbers, as did Clinton, as did Bush the elder, as did Reagan, as did Carter, and so on.

Why are you so worked up over government accounting tricks? So long as the numbers are reasonably accurate and are the same numbers used for all presidencies, they provide an accurate tool for comparison (if not a very accurate picture of our true debt).

But, as I said, no sitting politician has ever been very interested in giving out the larger numbers, so how does this make Bush evil? Especially when you do not call his predecessor evil for using the exact same numbers.

Icedog01:Repubs/Cons Easily Brainwashed
Your comments on the military are somewhat suspect. People join the military for a lot of reasons and a lot of them arent because they are
the "super patriots" you describe. There have
been many naive recruits who join the military
to become "super patriots" only to find out
that what the recruiters promised them in many cases turned out to be bald faced lies.

I have a big problem with a lot of these repub/con "super patriotic chickenhawks"
who proclaim that they love american so much.
I think they are a bunch of hypocrites who have the unmitigated gall to question the patriotism
of libs/dems and others who disagree with President Bush's boneheaded concept of the War on Terrorism that is causing way more problems than it solves and is hardly making the U.S.
safer. In fact it's increasing hostilities against the U.S.

UncaAlby writes
UncaAlby

The point in building Iraq up as a democracy is to remove one place where they can freely and openly meet, plan, train, acquire goods and weapons, etc.
==============================
The three terrorist training camps Iraq had for other nations to train terrorists in, are contained in the documents we seized and they indicate as many as 8,000 terrorists were trained in those camps yet, Liberals say Iraq wasn’t linked with terrorist organization and thus not a threat to the U.S.

r0_d1 writes:
r0_d1 writes:

1) The true 2005 deficit was $760 billion, not the $318.5 billion Bush reported...

* This is 6.2% of the GDP, not 2.6%
* That's $156,000 for every citizen, or $375,000 for every working American

2) The true national debt is $49 trillion, not the $8.3 trillion Bush reported...
==========================

Actually it is worse than that. The unfunded liability is about 84 trillion.

However, the point is that no matter who is President or which party is in power, it will be that. The Democrats have no plans to change that. In fact they admit they will increase spending but will try to pay for that increase with tax increases on business and the wealthy which, as we know from history and nations like France, doesn’t work.

However, the tax cuts on the working class won’t work either because they still depend on business and the wealthy for jobs and we are still driving them out of the nation. Granted, those were the only cuts we could get through along with some cuts on capital gains but, they won’t do what Ireland’s tax cuts did which created long term debt reduction, tax revenue increases and reduced national debt all while funding their social programs even more.

Most of the increased spending under Bush has been defense, and mandatory spending under COLA increases for entitlements. Those annual increases won’t stop under the next President either. We are a socialist nation using socialism to try and fund our social programs and that means there is no way to stop the increase in unfunded liabilities or spending for entitlements. Look at the 2007 budget.

Quote:
Department of Defense--Military $491 Billion 58.7% Growth since 2001
Department of Health and Human Services $697 Billion 60% Growth since 2001
Department of the Treasury $495,Billion 27.8 % Growth since 2001
Social Security Administration $625 Billion 32.3 % Growth since 2001
http://www.freedomworks.org/budget/
========================
We spend more even with the almost 60% growth in defense spending for those three departments. Treasury is high because it contains $440 billion in interest on the national debt that keeps rising. It also rose every year under Clinton. The surpluses they spoke of were where they spend less than budgeted but that budget included spending more than we took in. It was close, however, to reducing the debt but never actually reducing it.

We are going to go bankrupt under either party if we don’t reform like Ireland did. However, I don’t think voters would support the reform because it was drastic and rewarded business in order to encourage more of it.


Left Angle
I never used the term "Super Patriot" or anything close to it. I simply said military members are "proud and thankful" to be Americans - if those two modest feelings define a "Super Patriot" in your mind it would greatly explain your past comments and beliefs.

Your right, people join for a variety of reasons (usually a combination of reasons), but hardcore liberals never join - for any reason. They create and advocate whacko social experiments for the military, but they would never make the sacrifice to join.

Icedog01 writes:
Icedog01 writes:
Conservative Servicemembers
There have been many posts here comparing political parties and national defense, but I would like to make an observation.

I've been in the military since 1986 and I can safely say that 85-90% of career servicemembers are conservatives. I believe this is due to a combination of factors.
====================

However, my problem isn't with real Democrats. Most of them are patriotic and would fight. It is the Socialist arm of it that has taken control of party leadership. Maybe that is why, like Republican Parties in the states, many are going "independent." In the last election only 37% were Republican and only 37% were Democrats.

Liberals are the problem, not Democrats so much and they are leaving the party just as those who feel the Republicans have abandoned their responsibilities for limited government are leaving.

Hmmm? What happens if a candidate runs on "limited government?"

Old Man
You are correct and I agree 100% with your comments. I am a conservative first, and a Republican second.

If an Independent (who I could believe) were running on true conservative issues he/she would definitely have my vote.

Left Angle writes
Left Angle writes
There have been many naive recruits who join the military to become "super patriots" only to find out that what the recruiters promised them in many cases turned out to be bald faced lies.
===================

Hmmm? Maybe some didn’t read the “contract.” Maybe that is why so many are re-enlisting. Maybe that is why some who have lost legs are wanting to return on an artificial leg to Iraq.

The majority, not all, in Iraq seem to think they are doing something that needs to be done. Maybe they are just the conservative ones and the liberal ones are not re-enlisting.

I think there is truth in many views but not the total truth. The comments about the war on terror causing more “hate,” is probably too. Often any enemy becomes even more determined and “hateful” when their plans for advancing their goals are challenged. What is wrong with being “more hated” by France for example. They are a corrupt socialist nation that had dealings with Saddam. What is wrong with Iran and Syria and Palestine hating us more since they are terrorist funding and training nations? What is wrong with the heroin capital of Asia hating us more or Pakistan and their warlord culture hating us?

Why is it bad to have those nations hating us since they are part of the problem to begin with? War is all about “hate” and they started it and the other “hateful” nations were and are backing those that did start it. What part of Ahmadinejad’s agenda is so great you worry about him hating us. Much of Europe is socialist and trying to “appease” terrorists. You would expect them to “hate” the nation that fights terrorists, so what is so bad about them ‘hating” us since they have their own agenda to push.

We have to do what we feel is right in this case and we are doing just that. We had to end Saddam’s violations and keep Clinton’s promise and we did. If we have “other goals,” so what. Name a war where there weren’t more than one objective once we went to war. Name the places we didn’t try to rebuild after the war and create the potential for prosperity. We spent billions in all the European countries after WW II.

What do you know about brainwashing?
Left Angle,

Why do you use the word "brainwash"? Do you know what it is? Do you know what it can make people do?

I DO. I have lost a family because of brainwashing. I know cults, up close and personal.

I will tell you this, the d*mn fundamentalist Islamofacists that want to destory this county are a cult, and are brainwashing their troops into strapping on bombs and killing themselves to destroy "infidels".

You may have heard of infidels. You know -- what we call innocent people. Citizens. Bystanders. Troops. Women. Children. Look in a mirror.

Until America realizes that there is no negotiating, no appeasement of these lunatics, we will forever be fighting the "war on terror".

There is only one way to stop them. That is to kill them. Period. They will never make peace with us. They will never capitulate because they believe their mission is from God himself.

Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool, and plays right into the hands of our enemy.

To r0_d1
My point was not that the numbers showing operating costs only and omitting other liabilities was an accurate measure, my point was that you chastise bush for his "fake" numbers, but forget to mention that every president has used these numbers as well. I was wondering if 7 or 8 years ago you were chastising Clinton for similar accounting tricks, or , like the democrats in general, do you just discover financial responsibility when a republican enters office?

On kinks
That SOB from Idaho (just kidding) wrote "r0_d1 and Left Angle Fess up you two! You like being tied up and beaten during sex, don't ya?"

And this is relevant how? Get out of their bedrooms!

Two polite ponts from a history buff
LeftAngle tyoes, "and i noticed none of you listed any repub [military] accomplisments that even come close because basically there are none."

Abraham Lincoln (R). Commander in Chief 1861-1865.

"oh yeah...reagan won the cold war..highly debatable..."

All you have to do is compare the amount of territory that was LOST to Communism under all (NOTE: I admitted, "ALL") administrations from 1917-1980, with the collapse of Communism between 1981-1992, and the debate ends.

Brainwashing: Islamosfascim & Patrotism
Brainwashing:

"Indoctrination to induce someone to give up or accept basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes in lieu of contrasting regimented ideas. Inducing a person to modify his or her beliefs, attitudes, or behavior by conditioning."

The point was made above that Islamofascist leaders "brainwash" their followers into "hating" the U.S. and the West to the point that they will sacrifice their lives in the name of the cause.

If that is so then the case can be made that U.S. military & government "brainwashes" its members to "hating" the terrorist and so-called islamofacist and sacrificing their lives in the name of the cause.

So according to the Repubs/Cons the only way to solve this is to "kill all the islamofascist".

the problem with this being that the islamofacist think that the only solution to western agression is to "kill all the americans"


So you would think that anyone with any intelligence would think that the way to resolve this in a sensible matter is to negotiate a settlement of differences, yet anyone on either side who suggest this is called a "appeaser"?

Where is the logic in all of this..What you have
is a recipe for MAD (mutually assured destruction)..for all parties involved.


Icedog01...
Why are military folks conservative? Because that's who promises them the most! So of course, many of them like the GOP because they know that it'll be easy money for raises and equipment, whether it's needed or not.

maybe somebody mentioned it, but...
I didn't see it. The greatest military victory of our time was the end of the cold war and tearing down of the iron curtain. Do you remember who did that? And how many shots were fired? Since liberal weenies were fixated on counting down the time until nuclear annihilation, it was ironic how few casualties there were. Either you were too stoned or you are too young to remember the cold war, I suppose!

If you want references, there are millions in the former USSR and its satellites.

And it was mentioned, but I'd give a lot more credit to Eisenhower and McArthur for the end of WWII than either FDR or Truman. Any student of British history should appreciate how FDR was selling out Churchill to Stalin. That worked out well for everybody, didn't it?

r0_d1 writes:
r0_d1 writes:
Old Man - Read report
Did you get the report and read it?

You do know we pay $400 for hammers and toilet seats and always have. I was facinated in the Navy by their procurement procedures. The seaman, orders a part from a list of parts available and it has a "code" number that you use, not a name.

That code is sent in a matches a price to be paid but the person doesn't know what the part is so he doesn't know if he is paying for a $400 hammer or a $400 motor. As long as neither hand knows what the other is doing, we taxpayers foot the Bill but Bush has nothing to do with that system, it has always been in use for many decades.

My point is that even with all the cost overruns, defense spending is the lowest of those three other departments yet where is the outrage over social program spending that is tied to COLA and can't be reduced without major reform.

Regarding things like the prescription drug program, both parties have those programs and both will increase spending dramatically. There is no difference in that part of it. The democrats admit it when the interviewer pins them down but they say they can "pay for it" with tax increases and reduction in defense spending.

However, their reduction in spending won't be because they eliminate the waste because they have no intention of change the actual system, just stopping some defense programs.

Neither party is doing what needs to be done because the voters won't let them do the real reform that is needed. Democrats are just worse because they are run now by socialists and not real democrats.

correction
I meant code number but not a price.

The name and code number for the seaman.

The code number and a price for the guy who totals up the costs.

r0d1 History Check -- Balance Paid
r0: "oh yeah...reagan won the cold war..highly debatable..."

DNC: "All you have to do is compare the amount of territory that was LOST to Communism under all (NOTE: I admitted, "ALL") administrations from 1917-1980, with the collapse of Communism between 1981-1992, and the debate ends."

r0: "I guess thier Economic collapse had nothing to do with it. Sure!"

Of course it had something to do with it -- it was induced when Reagan outspent them militarily AND presided over a domestic economic boom simultaneously, something they tried and failed to match.

Thank you for implicitly conceding my second point, and conceding the first with DEAFENING SILENCE.

Sammy and one voter
I'm with you.

LeftAngle's Ancestors
LeftAngle's Grandfather:
"The point was made above that AXIS leaders "brainwash" their followers into "hating" the U.S. and the ALLIES to the point that they will sacrifice their lives in the name of the cause.

If that is so then the case can be made that U.S. military & government "brainwashes" its members to "hating" the AXIS and so-called NAZIS and sacrificing their lives in the name of the cause."

LeftAngle's Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather:
"The point was made above that CONFEDERATE leaders "brainwash" their followers into "hating" the U.S. and the ABOLITIONISTS to the point that they will sacrifice their lives in the name of the cause.

If that is so then the case can be made that U.S. military & government "brainwashes" its members to "hating" the CONFEDERACY and so-called SLAVE-OWNERS and sacrificing their lives in the name of the cause."

LeftAngle's Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather:
"The point was made above that KING GEORGE'S leaders "brainwash" their followers into "hating" the U.S. and the MINUTEMEN to the point that they will sacrifice their lives in the name of the cause.

If that is so then the case can be made that U.S. military & government "brainwashes" its members to "hating" the ENGLISH MONARCHY and so-called REDCOATS and sacrificing their lives in the name of the cause."

Moral equivalency is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

GAO Blames Bush
"Serious financial management problems in the DoD., Admins poor accounting, and the Admins poor financial statements to CFO for 04 and 05,..."

I seem to remember from my Intro to Accounting that the G does NOT use the generally accepted accounting principles (GAAC) that US corporations are held to. Convenient.

Yes, the figures come to down to cash vs. accrual accounting, or some other PFA method. I think some number are also based on assumptions, and that's where some dispute comes in.

Do you ever notice...
how libs gleefully point out the ridiculousness of $100 hammers and toilet seats, but fail to ever consider the equivalent (and often worse) waste and fraud endemic in all of their pet social spending programs?

I think it is long past time to reign in government spending, but that means politicians actually have to return power back to the individual and stop vote buying and personal enrichment at the expense of taxpayers. I'm just cynical to believe it'll never happen. The best we can hope is to curb it somewhat.

See or read "All the King's Men" if you still aren't enlightened. Like a wise man once said, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." That Burke guy knew a thing or two. ;)

Proving your point?
I fail to see how Reagan's military PRODUCTION and STRATEGY, which BROUGHT ON the collapse, proves your point. But then, I fail to see your point.

Thank YOU, by the way, for remaining silent on Lincoln.

Which President?
This president:

made defending liberty around the world part of his foreign policy?

succeeded a popular president of the other party?

defeated the incumbent vice-president in a close election?

was elected in an election with charges of vote fraud and controversy about the outcome in a key state?

Which president was this?

Clyde9


Spending
r0_d1

I don't doubt the accuracy of the figures you quote, but how are Democrats going to do any better.

For virtually every program where programs proposed by President Bush increased spending, Democrats complained his programs did not spend enough money.

Clyde9

Hey, DocNoleCat,
there's no way you're going to win an argument with r0_d1. He's decided that he's rubber and everyone else is glue.

So, what's yer point?
r0_d1 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here. Are you saying that government is too big? Are you saying that politicians are basically dishonest and prefer putting their best foot forward? Is this news? How does this distinquish the Bush administration from any other administration? Do you think that a democrat is going to be more honest? If so, which one?

If it's true that the cold war ended simply because of economic collapse then why do democrats continue to insist on expanding government by redistributing wealth via tax increases and expanding social programs? Wouldn't this lead to economic collapse as well?

Empty, Empty, Empty
Is anti-liberal columnist David Limbaugh capable of throwing us something other than the same column he instists on writing week after week. Mr. Limbaugh, we get it. You hate liberals. Fine, what else do you have? How about talking about conservatives for a while? The people on the far right and the far left most definitely live in loony land if they think they are contributing anything constructive to the political landscape.

Anyone who writes, "Oh, I almost forgot..." in the middle of a "column" must realize that they are in full rant mode. But, maybe not.

There are wonderful conservative writers out there. Why give space to anti-liberals, who like those on the left, give us nothing but hatred week after week? The left is moving in the wrong direction - absolutely. But, the right is also moving in the wrong direction. Doesn't anyone want the huge center?

If the Republicans lose on the budget
alone, it'll be because conservatives stay home out of frustration with increased spending on pork. Read the report on your link. I'm thinking the average Joe won't care one way or the other, and that would be if they ever bothered to look it up. Honestly though, the report sounded like a payback; I'm not saying it was, just that was the tone that came across.

Hey r0_d1
Yes, we are in trouble with SS. However, when the republicans proposed changes that would make the system more solvent what was the Dems response? Dems- There is no problem with SS. So if we elect them do you think they will address the problem? I don't think so.

IceDog
"I am positive that any current or prior military members on this site will concur"

I concur. Airborne!

Icedog01
Right on brother! This vet agrees completely!

Oorah Icedog!
Your rationale for why most service members join is spot on. The others find their way out PDQ when there is any hint of being uncomfortable.
Speakly from a personal standpoint, and following a career that lasted 26 years, I can trutfully tell you my lowest morale came during the Carter and Clinton administrations and with the high potential of Gore being elected.
I knew for a fact that service members were thought of as nothing but pawns whose salary and equipment costs where perceived as nothing but a drain on the then president's intended social handouts. Voted for Carter but was converted by Reagan when we were told all the ills were the fault of Americans. Carter is still saying that today - with a radical in tow Imam no doubt (Hugo and Fidel must have been busy).
Funny, you don't hear our Birkenstock, latte lefties spouting their lies about supporting the troops these days - guess even they couldn't bear that lie anymore.
So, take to heart, those of us who know what selfless service is - those chirpers in the peanut gallary amount to nothing when it comes to knowing what love of country is. And for those 'Vets' (aka Kerryites) who clammer about their service while condemning this nation and having spit on other vets can kiss my Irish a**.

Icedog
The ratio is somewhat lower on the NG/ER side of the house, but it is still decidely conservative.

As to the values: I remember a zero week in basic where we went over (and over) the 7 Army values (sleeping got you smoked).

Even if someone joins for the money for college or a related reason (like I did), basic quickly disabuses a person of the notion that it is a one-way street: something is expected in return, namely sweat, tears, and blood, if necessary.

Good comment.

Oh yeah, one more thing
For those who challenge us to READ the 9-11 Commission Report - be careful, because Chapter 4 isn't too friendly to your cause.
Seems your boy Bubba wouldn't have killed OBL anyway - can you link letting him live to also letting him continue his 9-11 plans?
Read it and then leave us alone about 'Bush's war'.

"A good place to look is the report's "Chapter 4: Responses to Al Qaeda's initial assaults," Section 4.5, "Searching for Fresh Options." There you have details of how Bin Laden was ready to be plucked, but someone in the administration either ignored or nixed it. Or put it on an endless "you-decide, not-me" merry-go-round."

lokietrek, you're on for the Gipper!
Some of the most patriotic Americans are those who have immigrated from the eastern bloc and southeast Asian nations. They know, first hand, where the lirebrocrats would take us in just a few decades.
Surely, some Dems are duped by Union jacks, family tradition or just plain laziness. Are large and active segment are out and out socialists if not worse.
Right on, lokietrek! You've pegged them and you're 'one for the Gipper'!


r0_d1
Perhaps if you had looked at the reports from the previous years, you would also see that the GAO is making the same statements that they have for every year since 1995.
Once again, your pathetic attempt at skewing sources for your own purposes has backfired and you are exposed for the idiot that you are.
I quote from the 1998 GAO Statement, "...significant financial systems weaknesses, problems with fundamental recordkeeping and financial reporting, incomplete documentation, and weak internal controls, including computer controls, continue to prevent the government from accurately reporting a significant portion of its assets, liabilities and costs...Because we are unable to determine the reliability of significant portions of the accompanying financial statements...we are unable, and we do not, express an opinion on the accompanying financial statements for fiscal year 1998. However, we were able to determine that certain amounts reported for environmental and disposal liabilities are understated by a material amount." Boy, you really uncovered the smoking gun didn't you? The government is inefficient and it plays with the accounting rules to make itself look good, I'm sure that started with the current administration. What a moron.
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