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Wednesday, February 04, 2009
David Harsanyi :: Townhall.com Columnist
Phelps' Public Stoning
by David Harsanyi
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It's true. Recreational drug use has the ability to produce a number of ghastly consequences -- including, but not limited to, becoming president, the governor of Alaska, a Supreme Court justice, a member of the New York Knicks or a fan of "classic" rock.

This week, the media, in sober tones, were obsessing over a shocking national event: A 23-year-old single jock allegedly was caught smoking pot at a college dorm party in South Carolina. Horror.

In reality, the most startling aspect of the Michael Phelps picture incident is that we produced an Olympic superstar dumb enough to place his gargantuan paws around a bong in full view of dozens of partygoers equipped with phone cameras.

Let's concede, then, that pot isn't for everyone and that the famed swimmer may want to be a bit more vigilant in preserving his brain cells. But that's another story.

If you did not recoil in horror when you heard the Phelps non-story or you ignored the moralizing discussions centered on the long-running fairy tale of marijuana's tragic effects, you're not alone. The question is: Why haven't public attitudes translated into public policy?

Every celebrity-does-pot incident is a good reminder. Our antiquated drug laws, commonly referred to as the "war on drugs," waste billions of dollars, create millions of needless criminal records, put thousands of nonviolent criminals in prison, deny the sick medicine, and involve this nation in needless foreign entanglements, all the while robbing free citizens of the right to choose.

The late conservative icon William F. Buckley (who once sailed to international waters to smoke up) said, "Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could."

And during his Senate run in 2004, Barack Obama endorsed the idea of drug reform and tepid decriminalization, though he since has pulled back from that position. It's too bad because the new president has a genuine opportunity to bring some common sense to sentencing and more federal deference to states and cities that choose to decriminalize, as many have.

As for the present, Phelps surrendered to public pressure and offered a mushy, stonerish apology. Something about engaging in behavior that "was regrettable and demonstrated bad judgment." (Phelps only has won 14 gold medals. Slacker.)

There is, actually, a soaring probability that a young person who smokes pot will never feel regret. More than likely, the remorse Phelps feels involves getting caught and potentially losing his endorsement with Subway -- which, some say, should be eaten only after smoking up.

A survey published in a journal of the Public Library of Science last year found that despite spending billions on drug enforcement, Americans are still twice as likely as citizens of the Netherlands (where marijuana is legal) to try pot.

Researchers also found that 42 percent of people surveyed in the U.S. had tried marijuana at least once. How many of them have deep regrets about the experience?

Just to be clear, I hope my kids avoid drugs -- legal or not. But how can a parent be expected to educate young children about the factual consequences of drug use when the drug czar and fear-mongering educators undermine the truth with scary stories? Indeed, kids may be mentally slower than normal people, but they're not stoned.

Not yet.

For transparency's sake, I also should admit that in my youth, I inhaled marijuana a bunch of times.

But apparently not enough to be elected to higher office -- or to win a gold medal.

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About The Author
so
that is why he eats so much

Any drug
impairs judgement. Young people using alcohol and doing stupid things (driving and diving) often results in tragedies. Using marijuana can do that too. But, the consequences of selling any of the stuff can get you more time than murder... at least it used to be that way. I've had so many papers written for my classes telling the benefits of raising hemp, I think I'll buy land in Iowa and follow in the footsteps of the patriotic farmers of WWII who kept raising fibers that held ships at dock and special forces rappeling.
If I can just raise it and not inhale, I guess I'd be good to go.

Discourage Use
Drug laws are in place to discourage its use. I watched more than one life circle the drain and wind up in the sump when I was but a callow lad. You can have a beer and relax. You can't be a little stoned.

The FDA should go..it's killing America
Let's think on this...

When they took the "coke" out of Coca Cola and the "pep" out of Pepsi..Americans got fatter because they drank more to get a sugar rush instead of the mild "pick me up" effects the "coke" had in it's original formula...FDA meddling

When they said America was too fat they "allowed" redux and it chemically killed Americans...FDA meddling again

Let's face it the FDA is in the drug company's pockets and the government supports this with VIGOR..The drug company's can't patent a natural product therfore they make no money on it..that's why they fight pot with everything they have there's no money in it...Though the benifits are proven and it really is no worse than alcohol for people.

Government wants to control our minds through the department of indoctrination (education) and it wants to defoul our bodies with chemicals instead of effective natural products for the sake of the almighty dollar.

Thomas Jefferson said;

"Was the government to proscribe our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now"

The FDA should be privatized and away from government and should be more like Consumer reports and accept no funding..the ATF should be a store like the local 7-11, not a government agency..back to the constitution!


Bill
You can't be a little stoned? You don't know what you're talking about.

duh
Mr. Phelps should follow Clinton's lead by saying that while he may have held the bong and drew on it's smoke, he however did not inhale. Barring that strategy, let's admit that Mr. Fin just might be physically talented, young, and rich. He is also dumb as a bedpost. No hating, just saying.

DOUBLE STANDARD...
It's okay for our President to smoke pot and do cocaine but we condemn a 23 year old??? Who doesn't see this as absolutely absurd? There was NOTHING about Obama's misuse of drugs (at about the same age) in the media while he was running for the Presidency!!!

Marijuana
What is the big deal about Phelps lighting up a bong? I have personally never tried marijuana because I don't want to smoke or toke anything.

A very dangerous but legal drug are cigarettes, which are legal everywhere. How many hundreds of thousands perish annually from lung cancer, emphyzema, clogged arteries, etc? And alcohol is also legal in most places, and it kills tens of thousands from cirociss, arterial problems, etc. Do we ban those too? I think not, especially after the horrific error of the 1920s and early 1930s.

I say we ought to legalize pot. It's what a good libertarian/conservative like myself believes in.

Infuriated
I live in rural Arkansas where Mary Jane is grown in numerous places. I have never smoked Paca Lolo however do not condemn anyone who has. It should have been legalized many years ago. It would have prevented the rapid rise of large Pharmaceutical companies. Phiser corporation has/is making billions off the people. All these nerve pills they create to soothe the masses make money, when marijuana does not. Anyone can raise it. Beer is worse than MJ. My grandfather said the only thing alcohol is good for is it makes one want to F--k or fight. MJ just makes one want to sleep or eat.
It is appalling how the media has jumped on this young man. There are more important things to consider. Like the country is falling apart. Like why so much unemployment. Loss of manufacturing, lack of the people purchasing the very item they make. Anyway, to all, get off this young man's back!!!

when my sister,
who is about as straitlaced as they come, and a mother of 3 impressionable young'ns to boot, rates this story a "BFD- Who Cares?" it's time to start changing our laws.

Edna
The FDA is not in the pocket of the drug companies. Think about it. The FDA is trying to pull in more money so the FDA looks and looks until they find a reason to fine drug companies. My husband nearly has an ulcer when the FDA shows up trying to make sure that everything is better than perfect.

Marijuana should not be legalized.

Do you want marijuana marketed?
Do you want the government distributing it?

Do you want young stoned mothers taking care of their small children?

The media hates Phelps
because he is a high achiever. He stands out because of what he has accomplished. Stupid of him to get caught. More stupid of the media to print it especially in light of OBAMA's drug issues.

Time to end the Prohibition
Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol. When one overdoses on alcohol it can lead to death (Jim Morrison, Hank Williams Sr.) There has never been a case of Marijuana Overdose.

Marijuana affects driving less that alcohol

source http://www.newscientist.com/ article.ns?id=dn2063


Alcohol is the leading contributor to Domestic violence.

source http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/32/

Marijuana is also less addictive than Alcohol and Tobacco

source http://drugscience.org/dl/dl_comparison.html

Marijuana not a gateway drug

source http://www.drugscience.org/sfu/sfu_gateway.html

See my Myspace page for a commercial for the end of marijuana prohibition feel free to embed it on your site i found it on youtube

My Myspace page
Oops forgot the link

http://www.myspace.com/charliejodon

Joycey
Do you want marijuana marketed?
Yes
Do you want the government distributing it?
No

Do you want young stoned mothers taking care of their small children?

I would rather a Stoned person take care of anybody than a Drunk person

Joycey...
Yes I want the federal government out of our bodies and to stop telling us what to, or, not to put into them.
If STATES want to run it like state run liquior stores that's fine with me as long as it's up to the states.
I've had it with GOVERNMENT saying we have to inject stuff into our kids before it's been tested for 20 plus years and proven safe and things being "fast-tracked" by the FDA ...let people who want to try this stuff sign up for the EXPERIMENTAL programs under medical supervision not mandated by some ill-qualified senator or congressman who says..oh that sounds good. let's mandate it. STOP letting the drug companies get rich off other peoples deaths.
ALlow people to choose what's right for them with ALL the information not just on a DR's word or some senators "opinion"

Joycey
I don't drink or smoke pot..I just hate the way government think's it knows what's best for ME and MY body or my kids bodies...WE ARE THE ONES THIS EFFECTS IT'S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY


Freedom to destroy
Yep, booze is addictive as is heroin, marijuana, cocaine, et.al. The argument that one is less (immediately) harmful than another is totally irrelevant.

All delirium-inducing drugs will eventually turn the user into an apathetic, dependent, emotional adolescent. It may take 6 months or 10 years, but it WILL happen. Regardless of the length of time, there will be a terrible cost to the user, and I'm not talking jail or prison.

If life seemed tough enough to navigate while straight, it gets exponentially tougher when maturity is needed to address the slings and arrows we all experience during our stay on the planet. Delirium-inducing drugs, to include alcohol, arrest the maturation process. Small stressors are then perceived as huge, and reactions to same border on hysteria.

I've treated and assessed addicts of all races, ages and sizes for decades now, and one thing is certain; "recreational" use will eventually lead to dependency, and all the cost and pain that comes with it.

Children will be put at risk, domestic violence will increase, and driving a car will become riskier as the guy in the next lane is trying to stay between the lines while tokin' up. And the drug becomes the entire focus of the user's life - kids, spouse or job be damned.

If one thinks some people can be difficult now, just wait until legalization. And don't forget to duck.

Edna
Good point...it is all about personal responsibility.

Dover
I think you should look at the links in my first post...It could open you eyes.

As far as one being less dangerous being irrelevant, I feel you are completely wrong with that statement. I respect your opinion , but disagree.

Marijuana is the least addictive drug, when i stooped smoking Marijuana i had no problems no withdrawal symptoms. Now when i stopped drinking that is another story, Dt's sweats and i was very angry. The hardest vice i stopped was smoking cigarettes, I stopped smoking cigarettes in Aug of '08 and i still crave the cigarettes.

Please look at the links on my first post, you will find the truth about marijuana, Not the Federal govt. rhetoric.


Class Warfare
I think the double standards are amazing.

You have a guy that works out all day, is rich being beaten up by the media for blowing weed in a bong instead of rolling his own.

And you have women with questionable taste in men blowing dope all day and sitting on the couch using food stamp money to buy chum chums while they watch the View, get away without the media saying anything about it.

Charles...
Yours was a unique experience when you stopped your marijuana use. I've treated and assessed alcoholics who simply (and finally) "just stopped drinking" with no ill physical effects. But in both scenarios, people were injured or in some way harmed during the years or months of use.

Self-medication will almost always come at a severe price either to the user or those around them. And I'm not talking just money.

Dover
ALL situations are unique. And in my personal experiences i have SEEN that Marijuana is less of a hazard to society than Alcohol.

I have posted sources (post @ 9:48)to back up all of my claims, I would like everyone to view them, it is up to you what you do with the information.


Thats life?
I know people that after they quit doing drugs and drinking find them selves with a lot more time and money and more powerful friends.

One of them just got elected to the highest office in the land.

Talk about a natural high.

Dover
Thanks for attacking my argument and not my person...you are good people :)

Pirate Rob
So i could be President...lol :)


America First

I wonder what the cost savings would be if we started growing hemp to make auto parts?

Instead of using Arab oil that would give new meaning to “Buy American”?

Highest Office
Yes anyone can be president.

You just need to find some really rich friends that need lots of favors.

Pirate rob
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5447

http://www.drugsense.org/html/modules.php?name=Wodclock

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4539&wtm_view=estim ate

Here are a few links on the costs of the prohibition of marijuana and hemp

Mod Mark
Thank you for the well wishes.

although i do not Smoke marijuana anymore, when the prohibition has ended i may smoke it again occasionally.

Phelps a poor role model
I disagree with your article. The fact is that marijuana is illegal in the United States. If he wants the endorsements and to be a role model, then he must act like one.

More info
visit http://www.norml.org there is an abundance of information concerning Marijuana laws, uses, and much more

Send Me $
Can you burn hemp oils in your car?

Can your imagine what that would smell like in down town Detroit

I wonder if I could get a grant from the government to develop alternative fuel sources.

Pirate Rob
Hemp can be made into ethanol and the hemp oil (from the seeds)can be made into Bio-Diesel. Hemp can also be used for the creation of biodegradable plastics, and can be a source of building materials (in a composite form, think of the wafer board used on the roof and outside walls of houses) that is stronger than wood.


Cheryl
The laws regarding Marijuana are immoral...Just MHO

The Role of Government
As one who believes the Bible to be without error, I think that all recreational drug use, as well as excess and extreme use of food and alcohol, is sin. The sin does not come from what we put into our bodies, but from what comes out of our hearts - the false hope that substances taken into our bodies can give us joy, control, power or awareness.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that the sale or use of any of these substances - food, alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crystal meth, or any other substance used in the body - should be illegal. The same should apply to gambling and prostitution, which is also sinful. I would except the case of selling to minors, or involving minors in any such business - that should still be a crime.

What needs to be severely criminalized is when someone kills or steals to support their habit, or gets behind the wheel of a car and hurts someone. Or when they go crazy from hallucigens or impure mixes and start shooting people. Or anything they do to hurt other people.

A profitable use of government money would be to provide a simple, accurate, accessible, ongoing education about the use of these substances. But at this point, the government seems to want to terrorize people about dangers that aren't quite so bad, or minimize real dangers.

For example, condom use is presented as "safe sex". What a deception! A condom has a fairly high probability of not stopping a large sperm cell - I expect the probability of not stopping a little HIV virus is somewhat higher.

Publishing high integrity information - in very simple terms - on addiction propensities, physical and mental damage, likelihood of impurities - this would be very helpful.

And we don't need to tax any of this rotten stuff. Taxation gives the government a reason to support increased sales and usage. We really want to see these industries perish from a drastic voluntary reduction in demand.

MKS
I disagree with you on the across the board legalization of all substances. Marijuana should be the only illegal substance to become legal..IMHO. Cocaine, heroine, meth, ecstasy, lsd, pcp, and others are far to dangerous, and can cause death when overdose occurs. This is not the case with marijuana. One cannot overdose on Marijuana.

I think your numbers are a little off on condemns. From the information i have seen, a condemn is 99% effective in birth control and in stopping the passing of std/hiv between people. The only thing more effective is abstinence.

As far as taxation, it could help to rebuild the economy. Marijuana IS the biggest cash crop in the United States. It is just not for smoking anymore.

Sorry oops
It is not just for smoking anymore, there are thousands of uses for the plant.

ICan't spell
condom either LOL :) it is going to be a long day LOL

Mod Mark
Yes i agree with you 100% Heroine should not be legal (It dang near killed Dave Mustaine) and it is, like all opiates, highly addictive. Any highly addictive substance that is illegal now should stay illegal. Marijuana is the only illegal substance that i believe should be legal.

Very true on the species of marijuana, but the fibers and seeds from both strands can be used in industrial applications.

Good
Weird to see this on a conservative website. I would have thought that a column about marijuana would be based on the fact that it's morally wrong to use pot, and I'm sure their could have been an angle in their somewhere about how it's against God too.


Nate
Glad to see you are on board with the anti-prohibition movement

http://www.norml.org

http://www.lp.org

Charles LPKY
There's no way I'd attack you for explaining your personal experience. I applaud your new and sober life. You've ducked the bullet of serious addiction like you can't imagine, but you must be vigilant for the rest of your life.

Understand that yours is a single experience. I've treated and/or assessed literally several thousand substance abusers in the last 28 years. I've witnessed the tragic consequences of using delirium-inducing substance use, and those, not just of the user.

A common example: I was just referred a case of a young man, a marijuana addict, who flunked out of his first semester of U of Michigan. The boy was a straight-A student in his Catholic high school as well as an award-winning jock. He was busted once by law enforcement while in his senior year, and his parents, as part of his sentencing agreement, sent him to therapy, and paid the bill. Suffice to say, it didn't take.

After his failing grades were sent home, and then read by his parents, he was confronted whereupon he finally admitted to daily marijana use. His was the classic "amotivational syndrome" common to many herbal-Americans. The boy was stuck in adolescence in more ways than one.

I recommended the standard 28 days of inpatient treatment with follow-up support (NA) meetings at least 4 times a week thereafter for at least 2 years.

I then said that if he stayed sober, they should continue their support and he should finish his education, but if he heads back out into addiction land, they should boot him out of the house for family preservation. Addicts don't like to decay alone, and family members are actively recruited as partners in misery.


Charles, thanks for the links!
I agree on MJ, but I think that all drugs should be legalized, simply restricted in greater/lesser degrees. It makes no sense not to allow terminally ill patients heroin to ease their pain in their final weeks/months as addiction is not going to be a problem. I don't advocate selling heroin in an ABC store like MJ should be and like alcohol is currently.

Mod Mark, I used to kayak and there was a team in Niles MI that our team was friendly with. There was a time that that area was the #1 MJ growing county in the country and they had a mass field roundup/burn where the firemen were prosecuted for removing their air masks. The unintended consequences of that fire was to stone every bird for miles around and every motorist downwind for about 30 miles. It was hilarious!

As to Phelps, it is nice to know that nothing has changed about swimmers and MJ since I was on the college swim team in the 70s.

Phelps...
...is blessed with amazing gifts and rewards that are unimaginable and out of reach to the everyday person. That he should willfully break the law by smoking marijuana, let alone willfully tarnish his role-model status, is something that he should investigate in therapy. This is self-sabotage to an immense level.

He had a chance to become an example for others to follow, especially young people, who are hard-pressed to find and model any positive public figure today. This wonderful opportunity was thrown away.

"To whom more is given, more is expected". I can't remember what part of the Bible that comes from, but it rings so true today.

Phelps
Phelps should at the very least issue a statement regarding his use of marijuana as part of his training routine and in preparation for olympic competition.

Not everyone has big feet and double jointed ankles to fall back upon.

Most of us actually need to use our brain cells.

Dover
I smoked Marijuana for years and was never addicted. While in college i smoked daily and carried a 3.96 Gpa and earned a degree in computer programming.

When i was drinking i could not hold a job, keep friends, and almost lost my marriage.

Alcohol was far worse than Marijuana.

Keep up the good work in helping people stop their addictions.

Reason trumps passion
Thank you for looking at this as a reasonable person, and not some foaming-at-the-mouth looney. This country's War on Drugs has been an abominable failure. If Obama can actually do something to address this, and remedy it, my respect for him would increase significantly.

Keep it green!
And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 1:12

Legalize marijuana now!

QUIT TRYING TO JUSTIFY WEED !
NO ONE STONED PHELPS!HE STONED HIMSELF!(got stoned on his own)the young people have enough problems without making weed legal!

Rich not Wealthy
You are welcome, i hope it is informative for you.

Good
Mmmm...Weed.

Seriously, Arnold smokes a joint in Pumping Iron. Big deal.

Who cares?

Before jumping to conclusions
Please look at the links i have provided in multiple posts...Make an informative decision on marijuana...not off of biased govt. reports.

Mod Mark
I was a Whiskey guy, when i was drinking a fifth of Wild Turkey 101 a day is when i realized i had a problem. It only took me two and a half years to figure it out.

I will occasionally have a glass of wine or a beer every now and then. Maybe 15-20 drinks a year. I learned to control alcohol and to not let it control me. But for about three years after i realized the problem i had with alcohol i would not take a drink.

In the end i realized Moderation is the key.

I like a Pilsner for a beer Miller High Life
and a merlot for a wine...Still will not touch whiskey to this day.

Why
is it OUR business what Mr. Phelps does in his spare time?

Mod Mark, Try Yuengling if you can get
it. It is a very good beer at about $18/case. They also have a very good porter and black and tan.

GROW IT,MARKET IT,TAX IT
NO STEMS,NO SEEDS THAT YOU DON'T NEED.
ACAPULCO GOLD IS BAD A$$ WEED!
BUY ACAPULCO GOLD FILTERS SMOOTH NOT RASPY.

David
No it is not anyone's business what someone else does in their spare time...as long as it causes no harm to others

I Am Waiting
for someone to tell us that Phelps couldn't possibly be a successful person because he smokes pot.

You gusy who can get a six pack of beer are lucky. In Pennsylvania you can't buy one in a normal fashion. Authorized beer distributorships can only sell it in cases. And it will cost you 11 or 12 bucks to get a six pack at a deli, which is the only place you can buy a six pack.

I second the Yuengling vote. It's the best mass market American beer available.

John
You won't hear it from me. :)

I have never heard of Yuengling...Guess i will have to take ya'lls word on it : )

Legalization = exponential usage
Charles LPKY said, "marajuana is less of a hazard to society than Alcohol." That is because it is ILLEGAL--just wait until the millions, esp. teens, started using, were it to become legal. Alcohol is a MAJOR problem to society: drunk driving kills and maims more American's than wars; abuse of children, both physical and mental; loss of productivity and becoming incapable of holding a job hit us all on the economic front. IMHO, we do not need ANY more impaired drivers on the roads.

YOUR4LIFE
Actually, marijuana is simply a much less dangersou substance than alcohol, period. It doesn't have anything to do with legality.

Charles--Yuengling...
I have. I've seen it. It seems to be all the rage "We now have Yuengling" signs in front of beer stores. I thought it was Chinese at first--the spelling very close to Chinese looking words, but I think it is British.

Akagi
Yuengling is brewed in Pottsville (maybe pottstown) PA.

I've done the Brewery tour there.

John
Yes, it does. The sheer NUMBERS of legal use vs illegal. Do you agree that teenagers have a harder time assimilating alcohol than do adults? If so, why don't you see a problem of immense proportions if marijuana were legalized? You can be charged with DUI while taking cold medicine, if that causes a driving accident. Let's now add marijuana AND cell phone distractions to all drivers.

Joycey
"Beer and Wine and other intoxicating liquior should not be legalized."

Do you want beer and wine marketed?
Do you want the government distributing it?

Do you want young drunk mothers taking care of their small children?"

See any difference in what you said and my "updated" statements of yours? I don't. You have fit right in at those temperance rallys at the turn of the 20th century.

And Charles:

I am unsure how you could overdose on it. If you smoke too much you'd either pass out or be unable to hold the bong or roach or doobie or whatever. You might go and denude your pantry of all your tasty snacks though.

Pro
Pot is not addictive--cocaine and nicotine are. Pot can be psychologically addictive (but so can TH.com), but your body won't crave THC like it does nicotine.


IM4Life
Anybody wanting pot--especially in say high school--can get it by the days end.

As this article pointed out, in the US people smoke pot at far greater rates than they do in Holland where it is basically legal.

Can't hold down a job because yo use pot? Have you ever smoked it? No. Are you smoking it now? The problem with drunk driving legal or not isn't pot--after smoking you don't really feel much like driving--it is the drunks that are the problem.

John:

Thnaks. What's so special about it? And why the odd-Chinese-looking name?

I like Taiwan Beer myself, but can't find any here--I did find a place that sell two beers that are similar Tiger Beer from Singapore and San Miguel from the Philippines.

Phelps pot use
Bottom line guys. Marijuana is ILLEGAL. That alone should stop one from using it. Good American citizens OBEY THE LAW. I am so tired of people not paying taxes and then saying,"oh I'm sorry," and then hold a Cabinet Position. Or "I'm sorry I smoked pot" then earn millions in product endorsements. If it were MY son, he would be in jail so fast it would make his head spin quicker than the pot. Not to mention that the part of the brain that controls judgement,(which young people like Phelps destroy when doing pot) does not develop until the EARLY 20's. So, if we were to legalize pot, we would have people taking office who "didn't inhale". Oh wait......

O Those Naughty Celebrities
Somehow the reaction to Phelps' smoking reminds me of the public excoriation of Ingrid Bergman in about 1950 when it became evident that she had had a sexual relationship with a man she wasn't married to. Doesn't that seem quaint now?

Diamond Z
Yeah, like beer is so much better. How many young people have died from beer and how many from pot? Like they can't get pot anyway.

The war on pot has done far more damage than any claimed benefits.

Kathleen
Like me to list some other laws--how about the fugitive slave law, should good Americans have obeyed that? How about laws that forbid blacks from eating at lunch counters with whites, or going to school with blacks, or marrying whites, and on and on.

You have no responsibility to obey immoral laws.

Read "Resistance to Civil Government" By Thoreau.

Just because the Imperial Federal Government and its no-longer sovereign provinces (once known as states) pass a law that is immoral doesn't mean I have an obligation to obey it.

Sorry. When the US government says jump--I don't say "How high." In short, the idea "Good Americans obey.." (sounds like something from the Third Reich), you know what you can do with that? You can work it as Peter Marlowe in King Rat would say. Actually you remind me of someone in King Rat, Robin Grey, who in Noble House becomes an agent for the Soviets.

Akagi wrote
"I am unsure how you could overdose on it. If you smoke too much you'd either pass out or be unable to hold the bong or roach or doobie or whatever. You might go and denude your pantry of all your tasty snacks though."

That is my point, there has never been a case of marijuana overdose.

And yes the snack industry would undoubtedly see a rise in sales.

wow
Me and Edna Eagle are on the same page in agreement today!!

: )

I would cite statistics, facts, blah blah about illegal drugs vs legal alcohol and cigarettes but I sense that many other posters have already done so. The "War on Drugs" has been a million times more harmful than the potential for negative effects of ingesting these substances, and most likely has increased the variety and potency of these substances by putting their production and distribution into the black market. As appalling as the dollar bill on the "stimulus package" is, I can't believe there is not more outrage regarding the billions to trillions of dollars spent each year waging, prosecuting and incarcerating the war on drugs.

Phelps
If anything, Phelps disproves pretty much most of the false hand wringing when it comes to pot use. He is a successful and superb physical specimen.. who apparently smokes pot.

Mod Mark
I don't drink American beers that often--if pressed Sweetwater or Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams.

In order of my likes:

Taiwan Beer
Tiger
San Miguel
Asahi
Sapporo
Kiren
Tsingdao

why stop there?
let's just make every drug legal? yea!!

roy

Yuengling
Is a good beer : ) Seems to be mainly an east coast thing though, my family lives on the east coast and it's always present at family bbq's and such.. but i've never seen it too much here in CO... but I guess we are blessed with an abundance of micro-brews to pick up the slack : )

Smarti
And the Olympic snowboarder too--Ross Rebagliati I think was his name? His claim though was he didn't smoke it but inhaled second-hand smoke at a going away party. Yeahhhhh right!


Sorry, No Deal
I guess I'm part of the 58% that has never tried it. Don't feel that I've missed anything. Except the chance to get sucked into trying stronger drugs and getting hooked on them.

So, let me get this straight. Every attempt is being made to criminalize cigarettes (which I also detest and have never tried), even in a person's own home, but the idea of millions of stoned Americans behind the wheel of cars doesn't terrify the author of this article?

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

You are kidding yourselves if you think pot doesn't lead to hard drug use. What planet are you people here from?

Phelps will lose some endorsements. But the real tragedy here is that this article, and most of the posts here, indicate that Americans apparently are beginning to accept drug use as just a part of everyday life.

"..and they repented not of their sorceries..(pharmakia)".

RE: Charles LPKY
Hi Charles, thanks for sharing the info and a little on your personal story. I, too, can also attest from personal experience the addictive nature of alcohol/cigarettes vs marijuana or other hallucinogenic drugs, and that of others close to and around me. Hands down, alcohol, when consumed by a person prone to addiction, is much more personally harmful and anyone who has been to an AA meeting can attest to the recidivism rates when trying to quit drinking. It simply is not the same case for marijuana smokers, with all due respect to the Pro from Dover. My opionion is this: I think certain people (through genetics or environment or both) are just prone to addictive personalities, be it alchol, drugs, gambling, sex, etc. The cure is not to ban the substance but to treat the person to find out why they need to fill the holes in themselves with excessive behaviors. At the same time, certain substances are more addictive than others, and the cure here is to be educated about this and use substances responsibly. I do believe in use vs. abuse for most substances is possible for most people, if they choose to do so. Taking the criminal element out of substances allows us to treat the person with the illness (much c cheaper too!) than the current obscenely expensive approach of banning the substance. Therefore, I would counter your argument that only pot should be legalized, the theory needs to apply to all substances. Honestly, I don't think crystal meth would have taken off as a substance if cocaine use was permitted.. just a thought.

re: Akagi
I'm sure if a list was compiled of all famous pot smokers (in sports, entertainment, academics, business) a lot of people would be munching shoe leather what with their feet in their mouths and all : )

I believe Harsanyi even indicated William F. Buckley was a toker? : )

Victoria
Please check the links i have posted here today, then after reading the research you can then make a well informed decision on the dangers of Marijuana. Also please remember that the US Govt. "research" is biased and most other countries and private entities that have researched marijuana have different findings than that of the US Govt.

Smarti
Thank you, I will respectfully disagree with the all drugs legal, but i do think you have a valid point on the meth/cocaine theory. The reason i would only like to see marijuana legal is i feel the others are far too dangerous; i have never tried anything other than marijuana, so i would not know from experience, just what i have researched.

I also believe you have a valid point on the addiction issue, some are more prone than others to become addicted to something. And yes, treatment is better than prison. In Kentucky to house one inmate in a state prison for on year cost about $35,000. there is no way treatment would cost that much.

Victoria
Go find us a link for a non-biased source (meaning no connection to the Imperial Federal Government)that claims Marijuana is a gateway drug.

I'll provide my own:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/33365.html

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study-say-marijuana-no-gatew ay-drug-12116.html

Now your studies please. I live on planet reality, you it seems live on planet US Government Propaganda

As for drugged driving, I have more:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#accidents

Now we do have this:

A propaganda piece from the US government (which would include almost everything from the US government, but I digress)

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html

This thing is total BS--It claims we don't know if Marijuana causes cancer--and using their logic, you could say the same about milk and orange juice. Real studies have shown that it does not.

It also makes this claim "Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana..."

True, but these same drug users also no doubt used milk and beer first too.






This is regoddamndiculous
Really, all this over a 23 year old kid taking bong hits? What kills me about this whole thing is that he's accomplished more in his life than all the people criticizing him put together. If anything, we need to look at the Barney Fife sheriff in SC that is actually talking about prosecuting Phelps. Seriously, guy, you're 15 minutes should have never started. Now go back to arresting wife beaters and drunks.

Mod Mark
Taiwan Beer is usually in the 750 ML bottles, but also sold in cans--much smaller--and these are the only ones I ever saw in this part of the US.

What is funny though is the Hanzi on the beer bottles use the simplified form of Hanzi (jianti) instead of zhengti which is used in Taiwan.


Victoria
I am a 60 year old woman who smoked herb in the 60's, quit for 30 years (long story) and then a few years ago tried it again to relax and destress. Better than phamaceutical's and alcohol as many have said here. I go to work every day, own my own house, have a successful marriage, successful children, pay my bills on time and pay my taxes (unlike some high level people in Washington) have never felt the need to try anything stronger and still partake of it on the weekends sometimes. It helps me with the stress of living in this very stressful society we have these days. And I do not consider it a drug! It's a plant - God made it. And He made it because He knew it could help us in natural way.

Good-bye
Thanks for the civilized conversation we had here today. All of you thank you, regardless of which side of the marijuana issue you are on. It is nice to be in a forum where the name calling and other BS is kept to a minimum, and no one strays to far from the topic.

I hope all of you have a wonderful evening, and i hope to hear from you in another TH forum tomorrow.

Good-bye for now

phelp's pot smoking explains A LOT
Gee,I guess we all now understand his somewhat "slow" demeanor! Here I thought he had suffered from some childhood learning disability---turns out he's just another stoned teenager.

The lesson is not how SHAMEFUL it is to have a HEALTHY human trash his phenomenal lungs with unfiltered burning grass, but rather, how STUPID he is to do so.

Have your children watch him win his medals; have them look at photos of his amazing body. Then force them to listen to him talk, and show them the autopsy results from cancer ridden lungs. Then let them make their own decision.

Mark my words: ten years from now, Michael Phelps will be smoking pot in his mama's basement. He will have puffed away all his fame and fortune and still be living off the one person who can't escape him.

dicey topic...
Wow... I don't think there has ever been an issue in which I'm so divided. I smoke marijuana on a regular basis. I've quit on a regular basis and started back on a regular basis at my convienence. IMO, I don't think marijuana is addictive, but I'm not a doctor. I think it comes down to the individual. However, as many people have brought up thus far in this forum, not everyone is responsible. I don't like the idea of legalizing marijuana and having a bunch of stoner mothers raising young children..but then again... there are plenty of young mothers raising children on other drugs (crack, pills, alchohol, etc) that are much worse for the situation. If there is one thing I'm sure about, it's that the harsh laws in sending people to prison for x number of years for selling/smoking is nonsense and a waste of tax payers money. I do see a serious double standard here when we sell cigarettes and alchol but not marijuana, but then again I just don't know how good of an idea it would be to legalize it.

+Kathleen
Amen sister!! And for those who want to talk 'double standards' what about your own?!! For your info BUSH did drugs also,and had DUIs,and had NUMEROUS arrests for it so come off the 'pollyanna purheart' act! And nobody 'hates' Phelps but he IS a role model so that's b.s. how is this ANY different than the holier than media witch hunt of Barry Bonds?! You'd have thought he killed his ENTIRE family the way the media villagers were gathering with their torches and selective moral grandstanding. So please don't preach about double standards unless you want to do it in front of a mirror.

ArmyWife
No study has shown a link between pot smoking and lung cancer. That's done by tobacco so that product should never be legali...wait it is legal. I forgot!

Yes he'll be a total loser just like all those other pots smokers--the governor of Alaska, three (at least) presidents of the United States, at least one Justice on the SCOTUS and on and on.

akagi
my point is that I don't CARE if he smokes pot! I just said it explains a lot...

As for all the great people who've succeeded despite smoking pot, or getting dui's, or whatever...how does that make doing mood altering drugs a GOOD thing? It doesn't. You can rationalize it all day long--even make it legal---and it still won't make indulging in pot or alcohol or whipped cream or chocolate a PRODUCTIVE enterprise. It's entertainment with consequences.

Last point: I'm not an oncologist, but I believe it can't be a GOOD thing to deliberately inhale concentrated amounts of smoke/chemicals/powders/etc.

Reason through decisions, but at least be honest about the consequences--don't try to act like there aren't any.

Exit strategies
What is our exit strategy from the quagmire of the War on Drugs? And, what is our exit strategy from the quagmire of the War on Poverty?

Marijuana legalization
Pot is probably the least harmful "abused substance." The problem is that every Dick and Jane can grow their own,without the sweat labor of a good corn mash still or the chemistry know-how of crack.

I lived in the old dry South in the sixties and seventies, and they used to have a saying, "Baptists and bootleggers both vote for dry counties."

I gave up the mellow high of pot after my rich Uncle Lyndon betrayed my boyish laughter by sending me on an all-expense-paid Senior trip. For a few years after that I just liked to drink a case of beer, chase it with some Jack and kick someone's butt. Fortunately that was just a phase...

MJ users
Hey quit piling on the tobacco users. Tobacco is a plant to. Before people got used to its effects it was a pretty good high. All we have left is the nicotine to calm our nerves. If you think smoking MJ does not introduce tar in the lungs you are mistaken. So go ahead and legalize it. Pretty soon people will get use to it then no more high just the thc to calm your nerves. Then there will be the people who smoke three and four packs of joints a day and they will have to get THC patches and THC gum to quit the compulsion. You say, " What could be worse? " I'll tell you. The former Joint smokers will start making laws forbidding the smoking of joints in restaurants. Then public buildings And last but not least night clubs. I almost forgot the price whining " I remember when a pack of joints cost a dollar now they are seven fifty a pack."

Want to legalize pot?
Then do away with socialized medicine. Otherwise don't count on my support. I don't want to pay for the pothead community's viagra necessitated by their foolish improvidence.

Michael Phelps, by the way, is 23 years old. Isn't that a little old to be smoking pot? Hopefully his mind will soon catch up to his body in maturity.

Marijuana Smokers:
Have an increased risk of head and neck cancer. Carcinogens in marijuana are stronger than those in tobacco.

The amount and duration of use increases the risks for these types of cancers.

Why isn't
anyone mad at the jerk who took the picture of Phleps at that party? Do you think he/she got paid well to ruin Michael's reputation? I think that is lower than Michael smoking weed. (Never tried the stuff myself, BTW)

You're all nuts...
First of all Samuel Adams Boston Lager is CLEARLY the best mass market US Beer. (Though I say that with a bomber of Yuengling in my fridge right now.) Actually, Yuengling porter is on par with many microbrews and imports out there. Way to go Pennsylvania!

Second, with a few exceptions, there seems to be a strong decriminalization wave on Townhall....

I'm very proud. (Seriously)

"War on Drugs?)
Illegal or not, there is no real social pressure against drugs, and little actual progress in preventing their cultivation,importation and use. Our national parks and federal lands are teeming with gardens that are frequently run by the illegal aliens we are unable dissuade from residency. Americans of all races and socio-economic levels are current users. Inner city and southern border violence are directly associated with drugs, yet nothing is done by the government or the people directly affected. When one can buy drugs almost any prison in America, the "war" needs to be abandoned or seriously restructured. We, the people, are ultimately responsible for our country; until we have had enough, no amount of wasteful government intervention will help.

The "war on drugs"
has always been sheer lunacy. It's all about money, power, and protecting the financial interest of the pharmaceutical industry. Do you really think the immoral clods in Washington give a rat's a$$ about our health? Besides, making pot illegal is a great way to keep the street price high enough for the CIA to make a handsome profit on it. Also it's a great excuse to hire tons more cops and swat teams to build the ever bigger police state.

SID: HUH???
Sid: the pharmaceutical industry? WHY does anyone need pot, or any of the other drugs anyway? What's the NEED? I've NEVER done any drug ever (unless you want to call pain pills after double knee replacement drugs). I just never got the reason why anyone needed drugs, I don't know what getting "high" feels like. I just really really like being in charge of my thinking.
The pharmaceutical industry doesn't disperse pot.

Reality
Being an x- smoker myself , I can only offer this comment- pot smoking makes one incredibly apathic and this lack of concern has weakened our nation .Quite a few families on assistance of some kind or the other can somehow manage to scrape up a few bucks to party with .I could go on but I feel I have ruffled enough feathers .

MR. PHELPS
I, for one, will remember your medals, not your bong. We are still proud of you.

reefer madness
These comments are so entertaining ,but the fact remains there are some people who can get high and still function and contribute in the real world BUT alot of people cannot and you all know what I'm talking about. Why do you think they call it dope?

Good points Mr. Harsanyi
Perhaps we could pass a law requiring each congressman/lady to smoke a doobie before going to committee or sessions of congress.

Just imagine how much less harm would befall us all!!!
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