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Wednesday, January 14, 2009
David Harsanyi :: Townhall.com Columnist
Sorry, Those Books Don't Count
by David Harsanyi
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After years of hand-wringing about the deterioration of the once-mighty American intellect, the National Endowment for the Arts now, dramatically, claims that after 25 years of precipitous declines in reading, we finally have turned a corner.

Apparently, "literary" reading among Americans is up 7 percent over the past six years. Which, a well-read person might deduce, only is making us dumber, considering the growth is directly attributable to inane books about teenage vampires in love.

"There has been a measurable cultural change in society's commitment to literary reading," said Dana Gioia, chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. "In a cultural moment when we are hearing nothing but bad news, we have reassuring evidence that the dumbing down of our culture is not inevitable."

The NEA released a scary 2004 study titled "Reading at Risk." We heard that a drop in reading was a "cultural catastrophe" waiting to happen. And despite the fact that fewer Americans are reading fewer books even now, the NEA mysteriously is celebrating some sort of triumph in literacy with a rollout of its new report, "Reading on the Rise: A New Chapter in American Literacy."

Like many of you, I've watched "Living Lohan," so I, too, profoundly fear for the future of the galaxy. But the truth is we probably never have been as clueless as eggheads at the NEA maintained, nor are we any less dimwitted for picking up another Nora Roberts "book."

Reading, in and of itself, holds no extraordinary significance -- or no more than watching a smart television show (and fortunately, there are many of them around these days) or surfing the Internet. In fact, one could argue that by picking up a heartbreaking work of staggering garbage, such as "The Da Vinci Code," you can effectively knock 20 points off your IQ.

We understand that all books are not created equal. There are, in fact, books that peddle complete nonsensical and, sometimes, dangerous ideas. Take, if you will, one of the best-selling books of all time, "The Little Red Book" by Mao Zedong, or anything ever written by Michael Moore or Michael Savage.

That's not to say that there aren't countless top-notch historical tomes, literary masterpieces and engaging biographies on the market right now; it's to say that "we" don't bother to read them very often.

"Here's the Story: Surviving Marcia Brady and Finding My True Voice," by Maureen McCormick -- to not so indiscriminately pick a book -- debuted at the No. 4 position on The New York Times' best-seller list last year, and I still see stacks of it at my local library.

Having been raised on the common-sense wisdom and idealistic energy of "The Brady Bunch," Marcia's uplifting story of surviving in a callous post-Brady era was quite the read. But inarguably, I could have gleaned more educational information by scanning the back of my cereal box.

There are countless similar melodramatic celebrity tell-alls that pepper best-seller lists all year.

Then again, "Here's the Story" is as valuable, if not more, than half the "literary" best-sellers of last year. So why is the NEA touting "literary" reading increases -- and by literary, they mean any thriller, romance or mystery -- rather than warning us about the overall reading stagnation? Normally, government agencies will frighten us with tales of calamitous consequences should they not be funded properly. What's up?

And these days, a trip to the Internet will often inform and educate us more than a trip to the library. So there must be better methods to gauge literacy. Does the NEA really think that measuring book reading by quantity rather than quality is a productive exercise?

After all, I can offer rock-solid anecdotal evidence to the contrary. My home is teeming with hundreds of books -- and I even have read some of them. Yet most of you think I'm completely clueless.

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About The Author
Perspective
Harsanyi's strangely grim article seems to lack perspective. Sure, there are plenty of terrible books out now, and they frequently get more attention than they deserve. But it is unlikely that past generations had better taste in books. They bought and read trash too. But over time, people abandoned the old trashy books and bought the new trash, while good books had more staying power. So no one reads the 1960s equivalent of Marcia Brady's biography. They only read the stuff from the 1960s that proved itself over time.

So, to avoid the pessimistic assessment of the current literary crop, here are some books published in the last 10 years that deserve a read:

Falling Man -- Don Delillo
On Chesil Beach -- Ian McEwan
Saturday -- Ian McEwan
Atonement -- Ian McEwan
Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close -- Jonathan Safran Foer
Middlesex: A Novel -- Jeffrey Eugenides
No Country For Old Men -- Cormac McCarthy
The Road -- Cormac McCarthy
Terrorist -- John Updike
Mason & Dixon -- Thomas Pynchon
White Teeth -- Zadie Smith

Just think, in 40 years, you can rest assured people will be reading those books and saying, "This is so much better than the trash we have not."

"Literary reading" Huh?
In contrast to...?
Literary furniture equalization?

And "Inane books about teenage vampires in love". At my middle school, many girls who read "Twilight", in its absence, wouldn't be reading. Among this demographic, any reading is good reading. Hooray Harry Potter.

And don't confuse reading with reasoning. Our country suffers the well read fool.

The big problem is quality
My dad's wife whom I really don't like is always touting she's well read...
She habitually grabs what ever is on top of the New York Times best seller list or OPRAH's spewings...what do they call best sellers?...The books that contain everything associated with BDS (Bush derangement syndrome) or Enviro-Mental spewing.
Does this qualify as well read?

HELL NO!

That's the problem it's quality not quantity

Oh Sonar you're so clever

A harvard tool and community organizer is so much better at reasoning.

Does Every Book Not Have Merit?
While I completely agree that reading Moonlight is nowhere near a level as say To Kill a Mockingbird, why can't people just read for the entertainment of it? I agree that over time the trash will be filtered out, and the books that are worthwhile will stay, but would anyone argue that the Harry Potter series won't be read by children for generations? Books like that often spark the imagination, and in a world that spends more time watching TV, I am just glad kids are reading. The benefits of reading are proven to increase a child's knowledge of grammar and vocabulary. Given that many students are writing "b4" and "c u l8r" I think that's a bonus in itself.

In today's difficult times people are merely looking for a way to escape. I don't think teachers will ever be reading Harry Potter for literary value in school (but then again who knows), but if it encourages people to read outside of forced assignments, I am all for it.

Leapfrog
And then there is Leapfrog, whose commercials are deeply disturbing to one whose chief delight in life has always been reading -- to myself and aloud.

In their commercials they softly coo as a school age girl climbs in bed with her perfect Mom and Dad to *read them a story.* She opens her cardboard Leapfrog Book, a story of modern psychological inanity sanitized for her protection, and pokes at the mysterious black squiggls on the page before her with an electronic wand. A cozy female voice pronounces words aloud. She echoes them. She and her besotted parents believe that she is reading.

Just wait til Susie gets to school and discovers that no matter how many times she pokes at her schoolbooks, they remain obdurately silent.

For now.

Let down by Gen X (or is it Y now) again
One day while having a casual chat with a young man who worked for me, I inquired what he did with his free time. He replied that "He liked to read". Being pleasantly surprised by his answer and restoring some of my faith in today's youth, I asked "What do you read?". To which he responded "Graphic Novels". Not exactly HIP to all the modern vernacular, I had to ask him what a graphic novel was. He explained that it is a book where the story is told using dialogue and pictures.

Rolling my eyes, I replied "Oh a COMIC book".

Entertainment is great, to be encouraged
Truthfully, I loved the Harry Potter books not as much as the Lord of the Rings/Hobbit or Pendragon by Catherine Christian or the Song of Albion trilogy by Stephen Lawhead.
Escaping daily reality is great fun and should be merited!

However when the run at the library is for the nonsense put out by AL Gore and distorted Histories endorsed by Oprah (that holocaust hoax book)It is taken in as facts and bible worthy truths...those books don't count.

Books, Schools and kids:
The Schoolastic book club lists sent home endorse books like "CUT" it's about self mutilation and things of this nature as well as all the AL Gore nonsense feel good Liberal-mental victim-hood spews and celebrate "globalization" mentality...
this leads me to wonder if reading is a good thing for our kids...
I think parents better read the stuff their kids come home with and if they see stuff they don't approve of tell the teachers to stuff it. I know it's a sacrifice of parental time but it might just save a lot of heartache later.

AudiR10...

AudiR10
Location: AL
Reply # 6
Date: Jan 14, 2009 - 7:23 AM EST Leapfrog
And then there is Leapfrog, whose commercials are deeply disturbing to one whose chief delight in life has always been reading -- to myself and aloud.

In their commercials they softly coo as a school age girl climbs in bed with her perfect Mom and Dad to *read them a story.* She opens her cardboard Leapfrog Book, a story of modern psychological inanity sanitized for her protection, and pokes at the mysterious black squiggls on the page before her with an electronic wand. A cozy female voice pronounces words aloud. She echoes them. She and her besotted parents believe that she is reading.

Just wait til Susie gets to school and discovers that no matter how many times she pokes at her schoolbooks, they remain obdurately silent.

For now.

~~~

AudiR10 ,

I love your stuff.

This old Rat wants one of those verbal sledge hammers you carry.

I think I could learn to use it after a few years.

Or maybe not.


Graphic novels
Corndog,

As with any form of fiction, graphic novels -- comic books, if you prefer -- have their share of trash and their share of gems. Without knowing what your employee chose to read, I can't say whether he is reading the former or the latter. However, I would challenge anyone to read such graphic novels as The Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns (yes, a Batman story), Fables, Castle Waiting, Bone, Grease Monkey or Elfquest and then claim they are without literary merit.

Do not confuse the comic books of your childhood with the graphic novels of today. Much has changed. If you don't want to read them, then don't. But avoid judging those who do based on a flawed and outdated understanding of the medium. Oh, and definitely do not judge graphic novels based on the movie adaptations of the same work.

You're right hvogel

I shouldn't judge.

"Moby Dick", "The Grapes of Wrath", "For Whom the Bell Tolls", etc. would all have been greatly enhanced by the addition of a series of junvenile pen and ink cells.

I can see it now;

"Call me Ismael." ZAP!!! KAPOW!!! WHAMM!!!

what stays the same
Every generation, at least since the early 1600's has complained about the lack of literary seriousness of the next. I have an early Joseph Conrad novel put out in '50s with a cover making it look like a romance novel because apparently in the '50s that was what they thought was necessary to get people to read Conrad.

Harsanyi's article is more of the same. But it makes some pretty basic errors as well. Part of the value of reading a novel or short story really is the reading aspect of it. We experience books differently than film adaptations of those books. So when he is comparing books to smart tv (and yes there is smart tv as well) or to getting information on the internet, he is rather confused about what the value of reading is in the first place.

And yes, even graphic novels can have value. Maus is an account of the holocaust that would be difficult to pull off in a different art form.

But the need for people to feel superior never changes. That is one of the constants through the ages.

Corndog...too funny.....
"Call me Ismael." ZAP!!! KAPOW!!! WHAMM!!!

"In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit"

New Translation:
"someones in the batcave Robin"

Lon
Why must every comic book geek pull out "Maus" to defend their much beloved "graphic novels"?

Sorry, they still just funny books.

I Did It
Now I will have five or six angry geeks up in arms for daring to call "graphic novels" comic books.

However, the very fact that you ahve to argue "they arne't like THOSE comic books" tells all. The fact that you ahve to dissociate them from comic books shows that they really are the same. I don't have to tell you Dostoyevksy isn't like Jackie Collins, but you have to tell me The Watchmen is more like Moby Dick than Archie or the Teenage Mutant NInja Turtles

No, not buying it. Comic books are comic books. Some may be marginally better, but I thin I will stick with the adults and ignore the picture books.

And before anyone brings up Maus' Pulitzer, I would throw out Walter Duranty's Pulitzer. Sorry, that prize has little probative value when it comes to quality.

Actually...
The attempt to turn "graphic novels" into legitimate literature reminds me of nothing so much as those attempts to give rock legitimacy by composing "rock operas". And we all know that in generations to come "Tommy" will be performed over and over as a timeless cultural classic. As will "Kiss Meets the Phantom".

Sorry, every niche market with a less than respectable interest tries to prove it is mainstream and valuable and culturally significant. But I am not buying. Yes, culture evolves, but I have a sneaking suspicion, Gaiman's name will not be spoken with reverence five centuries from now.

I was reading this article,
but then I realized that reading is pointless and stopped. I'm going to Girls Gone Wild videos. Could somebody read the rest of the column on YouTube.

sjpatejak
"I was reading this article, but then I realized that reading is pointless and stopped. I'm going to Girls Gone Wild videos. Could somebody read the rest of the column on YouTube."

BWAAAAAA HA HA HA HA
That was FREAKING hilarious.

Actually, at Border's Books you can purchase this column on cassette tape read by Justin Timberlake.

Maus, not quality?
I disagree. A great book imo on the effect
of the Holocaust on the children of survivors.


And Sin City is as good a dystopian vision as
any

Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis I+II is both a
good coming of age story and political
commentary on the Iranian Revolution.

Joe Sacco's Safe Area Gorazde and Palestine
are great pieces of reportage.

The Watchmen is great and so are the Dark Knight as mentioned earlier.

Howard Zinn's A People's History of American
Empire is a classic Zinnesque polemic

The "if it's a comic book it can't be
literature" argument does not hold up since
the comic book industry has illustrated
classic books, here for instance is one for
Edgar Alan Poe:

http://www.graphicclassics.com/pgs/poe_3.htm

Or have you never heard of classics illustrated?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics_Illustrated


Are graphic novels better than books without
graphics? It is up to the consumer - I suggest
you look up these books on Amazon to see
what consumers have said and try one of them
if you never have read one - should be
available through your public library.

Narrow Minds, etc
ANDREWS, et al....

I'm extremely well-read. I love books; always have since I was a kid and someone handed me a copy of A Light in the Forest. Hooked. I'll read nearly anything(within reason) that I can get my hands on. I've taken flyers on books that I knew were crap, simply because one never knows what they may find between the covers. To sell a graphic novel short, sight unseen, simply because in your judgemental mind they're no better than the Archie and Jughead comics is terribly short-sighted. I don't make a habit of reading them, but I have read a few in my time and they're not as bad as you may think. True, they require a certain suspension of disbelief due to the mostly fantastical subject matter, but I don't think the folks who read them do so to feed their brains. It's entertainment and escape. Nothing at all wrong with that. NOTHING. While I've read many of what you problably consider "the great works" or "the classics", and enjoy the more literary writers, now and then I need a break from that, I need an whimsical escape, a fantastical interlude. NOTHING wrong with that. I would suggest that "to each their own" applies here. Just take a break on the judging. At least the graphic novel crowd is reading SOMETHING. Who knows, maybe they'll find their way to the loftier heights that you apparently believe yourself to inhabit. People kill me...

andrews holocaust denier?
I am not sure I get the equating of Spiegelman
to Duranty.

Is Andrews making the point that Spiegelman
was reporting a one sided tale where Duranty
did not report on the famine in the Ukraine
Spiegelman is reporting on the Holocaust that
did not happen or that the relationship with
his father is not what is reported?


Hazmat74
I agree on escapism having great virtue.

However being well read, do you agree that books like "CUT" (a self mutilation how to manual) belongs in kids hands? Or how something like "King and King" (promotes gay marriage)is good for a first or second grader when they don't know their own bodies or the biology of "baby making" ...
Those are my big beefs with books out there...I found having very gifted readers as kids that age/subject appropriate is hard to come by in a lot of the offerings by scholastic book club and some others that chose to push "agendas" on unsuspecting parents.

Quality Books
Give me the classics any day. Huckleberry Finn, The Republic, Crime and Punishment, Moby Dick, and other examples of classic literature. Now THERE is good reading! A subscription to the "100 Greatest Books of All Time" from Easton Press is a great investment.

Andrews
If you want to pass on types of litterature because it makes you feel superior that is, of course, your choice. But I am not sure why anyone else should take seriously your critique.

I am quite happy to call Maus a comic book. It happens to be a very good one. I think Daredevil 191 is also a very good comic book, and more useful reading than many of the books out there. I didn't give that as an example since it seemed unlikely many readers would know which comic book that is. Certainly it is more worth reading than Ann Coulter's latest attempt to get meeting by spouting nonsense.

The idea that something is not worth reading because it is in this medium rather than that is a pretty silly one. There are plenty of reasons why this or that book isn't worth reading. The fact that it is in a medium that is also read by kids is among the worst of them.

literarycomics
Well now,ironically,here's a piece just posted today in the NYT.

"Listening to Schroeder: 'Peanuts' scholars find messages in cartoon's scores"

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/14/arts/14pean.php

Guss the comic book proponents make a good point.

Different reasons for reading-
All reading is not for educational or informational purposes. Example, I like to read adventure, historical novels, mysterys novels for relaxation. In fact, I call them, junk food for the brain.

However, I read Thomas Cahill, Norman Davies and Boorstein with glee because I can't aquire enough history, real history. I consider this educational.

Then there is the informational. Right now I am plowing through Photoshop, digital photography and composition manuals to learn how to use my camera.

My love of reading was developed in junior high school from reading junk food for the brain. I have raised three girls who learnt how to appreciatae reading the same way.

Now there is a problem, if any of us stop reading Amazon will go broke and the library will actually have to buy books.


Eaton Press
Good investment? Ya think? At $55 or more PER book....I don't think so. The library offers the same books for free!

Reading can be educational
Liberals use books to promote ideas of discrimination, domestic terrorism, and government waste. The democrats controlled Michigan while not printing nor purchasing modern textbooks even doing the Clinton era. Twenty years of paying consultants, advisors, and union leaders while the denial of proper educational material for the students of the state. Michigan is not the only state that this has occurred. Comic books, magazines, and text messages are not educational material. Wake up and eliminate all now estantial non-teaching personel from the school system, all union representatives on campus. Stop wasting money on trips of union members instead of being text books and providing teachers adequate pay.

Yes, you are clueless
I agree with other concepts as well. Using the quantity of books sold to determine more people are reading is poor science. To me it says the same group of people are reading more, hence buying more.

I have never seen "Living Lohan" so I don't know what it is, but I can assume from context it is not good. I learned something from this column that I didn't know before. So it is with most reading - people learn something they didn't know before. The word novel, new and different. In fact, this column says more about the author's likes and dislikes than the NEAs statistics.

I love Willa Cather. I also loved Edna Ferber. Are they equal in quality? I won't read Virginia Woolf or Ann Coulter ever again. Does that make them equal writers? Hardly. Who is the better writer: James Fenimore Cooper, Zane Grey, or Larry McMurtry? And who will be remembered? Reading trash (Coulter et al) and "literature" (Woolf et al) allows me to answer that question.

what is better reading this column
or this one?:
http://www.common-place.org/vol-09/no-02/reading/

Edna Eagle
I wasn't familiar with either title you mentioned. I'm not a young adult reader(Cut) nor do I have a 1st or 2nd grade child to worry about(King and King). I had to look them both up. More on that in a moment, but I wanted to take a second to note that I wasn't speaking towards either of these books in my original post. I was speaking generally to folks here trashing graphic novels out of a sense of intellectual/literary superiority. Nothing more. Not sure how we got from there to here? But to your question: In regards to Cut - I doubt I'll ever read it. Not quite my bag. However, let's live a bit in the real world. Troubled teenagers are a reality, not a fantasy. This novel doesn't appear to be a "how-to" on cutting oneself; it appears to me an exploration of a troubled teen's issues and her journey towards understanding them and ultimately healing. As to its "appropriateness", I would suggest that's up to the parent of the young adult who's reading it. Again, I've never read it...but if I had a child and he/she brought it home, you can bet your behind I'd be looking into it and determining whether or not they should be reading it...and if I did decide it is a subject matter he/she was mature enough to handle, we'd be discussing it as they read it.

King and King: I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but 1st and 2nd graders don't need homosexuality shoved down their throats. They've got enough confusing things to work out before this subject is even broached. While I have no issue with the book being available, it's certainly not something I'd be tucking my child into bed with. Again, as with Cut, this is a parental issue moreso than an availability issue.

Perhaps
reading declined because there wasn't anything worth reading.

I have always read for pleasure first and education second and still do. I like a good educational book but it had better be well written., and I have to agree with Prelutzsky that there is often more truth in fiction than non-fiction.

I have also noticed that since this country has become more polarized and more politicized, with the thought police in full force, creativity has gone done in all aspects of life, including problem solving.

I have no problem with "comic books"
aka graphic novels ...I loved Richie Rich when I was 8 or so and if they've become a mainstream thing great for them...I love political cartoons too once and awhile.

Hazmat, Thank you for your opinion, beside "cut" I agree most heartily. (it is quite graphic on how to, I read it)
They (a teacher) sent it home with my then 5 1/2 year old daughter because the books in her class were Dr Seuss level and she had already read the first 3 Harry Potters novels.She was really ahead in reading and math.
The teachers assumed because it was from scholastic it was OK...NOT SO, They didn't even read it before they shelved it in the 6-8th grade classroom!
Needless to say I homeschool now, because we can read the classics (we just finished Swiss Family Robinson original unabridged version not the dumbed down modern tripe)and at age 8 she's reading at a HS seniors level without the social agendas mixed in.
But I still let her read Betty and Veronica and Archie for fun.

LOLO 1
Have you read Manhunt by James Swanson?
It's the manhunt for Lincolns killers..pretty good (so far, I'm about 1/2 way thru)
Anyway...I read mostly historical educationally dry books with a few historical fictions tossed in then I love JRR Tolkien and Stephen Lawhead fantasy for fun.
However I just finished all of Mary Stewart's ("Arthurian saga" 5 books "Crystal Cave etc) they were pretty good for light reading too.

Edna Eagle
While Cut may be graphic on "how to" that doesn't make it a "how to", if you follow. However, for a 5.5 year old, I wholeheartedly agree that would be way, way too much. The teacher and I would be having words, at the least. There are a bazillion other young adult titles much more suitable for that age range that don't deal with such mature and difficult subject matter.

Graphic novels aren't just glorified comic books, though it would be easy to mistake them as such. Most cases they're dealing with deeper issues than meeting Betty at the soda shop. They're mostly very well thought-out and expressed. And the artwork is unbelievable in many of them. Having been an art student in a former life, an avid reader, as well as a comic book nerd growing up, I have a soft spot for the genre.

Bleeding Heart Liberal
I agree with you about reading trash (Franken, Estrich, et al). I can't bring myself to read any leftist author. I don't want my IQ to drop from being exposed to that swill.

Hazmat...
Actually the teacher and I almost came to blows I was so angry that this was sent home. (no, agreed, it isn't exactly a "how to" but if someone was looking for suggestions they're in there!) The teacher couldn't stand being corrected on what was "suitable a child for her age" (it was an ego thing)
anyhow...
I'll have to check out these "graphic novels" I'm intrigued any suggestions for a pre-1900 history buff? or fantasy like Tolkien-esque material?

Marsha Marsha Marsha

"Growing Up Brady"...Wasn't that the book about being a liberal.

Oh no wait, that was "Growing up Brain Dead"

Reading suggestions for Hazmat
Actually, I have the perfect series to suggest to you (or anyone)if you are into pre-1900's history. You need to get to the library and check out some of Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey-Maturin series. They are some of the best fiction you will ever read. You will not be disappointed, I promise you.

Phillip in Lexington, KY

hazmat74
The need to defend graphic novels from being glorified comic books is more defensive than necessary. Of course most comic books are designed for children or young adults. But plenty of books are as well. There is more of a continuum from comic books to graphic novels (which are actually distinguished more by format than quality). There are plenty of food comic books in comic book form as well. I mentioned one above. An issue of the Spectre that was a take on the Exodus story is another that comes to mind. (My comic book knowledge is at least a decade out of date so I can't give more recent examples).

Graphic novels don't need to be defended at the expense of (ick) comic books.

Phillip In Lexington
Thanks for the suggestion on the O'Brien books,
I'm the pre-1900 history buff
I'll have a look at the library

The author...
...should read Ayn Rand's Romantic Manifesto before putting down thrillers, mysteries, etc.

Lon
Hazmat was explaining "graphic novels" not defending them so much..
After I outgrew Richie Rich I never knew they progressed to a higher "content" per se'
So I asked for suggestions

History books (re: Edna)
The O'Brien books are not graphic novels.

Anyways, Larry Gonick has actually written
comic book histories of the world and one
for the USA. These are not imo "graphic"
books. But well worth checking out. Some of
his stuff will make you laugh!

A little late, but you might want to try
Ethel and Ernest by Raymond Briggs.
Starts in 1928 ends in 1971.

Enjoy.

p.s. the town in Archie comics is based on
the one where I live.

Thanks everyonesfacts
I'm always looking for new books and authors, I'm a bookworm or is it bibliophile these days? Can't keep up with all the "new" terminology (PC stuff)

Half the time I leave the library with 4 or 5 books and am back for more with in 10 days.

Thanks again

Books for kids not going to be avalible
stores closing... big sale on Homeschool and Educational books and curriculum
because of HR4040 aka National Bankrupt Day 2/10/09 (I'm not affiliated to this store in anyway)

http://handsandhearts.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=99

HR4040 (another liberal brainchild) aka NATIONAL BANKRUPT DAY
is bankrupting a lot of great learning material stores and forcing amazon and others to stop selling, games,videos,furniture, and even books for kids 0-12 years.

If you're interested read about it here:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=11231 03

Don’t savage Savage:
The humorous rantings of the always on target Michael Savage prove him to be one of the few sane individuals left in this quickly collapsing country.

It’s what you like to read.
My problem is I don’t like fiction books, so all through school I had to make my self read them. Now that my daughter is in tenth grade and in the book club she reads a book and they talk about it and then go see the movie, they read the twilight trilogy, I was not that happy of the flamboyance of the vampire now they are on Molly and me. At the age she is at she knows righr from wrong, and I always know what she is reading anyway. She loved The river is wide, and Bill Orelly’s book, To kill a Mockingbird, to her first edition 1877, Veterinary Notes for Horse Owners, she loves anything horses, horse books everywhere, and she memorizes them. I on the other hand find my self taking back books because of the liberal lies I find written into them the most resent was Joseph J Ellis, American Creation this one was on the Louisiana Purchase and he had it all screwed up, so I took it back to books a million and had to explain to a teenager this educated idiot, was messing up history and I wanted to exchange the book for a correct version.

criticising reading of any kind
I am encouraged to hear that Some reading is going on. When I was younger(wish I had the time now) I read every science fiction novel I could get my hands on. While they were fiction and some not especially good writing, others were and one thing I discovered was the "fiction" aspect was not so far fetched nor was it entirely imaginary. Indeed most of the speculation was based on science and math which gave me a very easy time in "intro to physics " and many more esoteric courses. I may not see the value in some of the literature out there now but who knows? maybe they prepare one for life as a civil servant. May not be so irrelevant given the times we live in. Now, reader edited references(wiki) are more disturbing as they become a source for facts taking the place of books. That is disturbing since the left has a facility for slanting recent history to favor their viewpoint(could be argued they do the same with books but limited printings do not allow the dynamics they prefer).

Edna Eagle
But his description is a bit imaccurate in trying to draw the distinction between comic books and graphic novels. For example, the Watchmen, which is given above as an example of a graphic novel, was first a maxi series of comic books (that is a 12 issue run). I know because I have those comic books. It was collected together with a harder cover and better paper and it became a graphic novel.

So in that rather literal sense graphic novels really are just glorified comic books. My objection is just to the idea that there is anything wrong with that.

Amen Rev
Good historical books are a nightmare if written lately.
I said I'm reading Manhunt about Boothe killing Lincoln and it has been really good so far and I'm halfway through
You might enjoy it.

For your daughter The Black Stallion series is great..As well as The Sweet Running Filly trilogy was one of my favorites about that age.

Thanks for proving my point, Corndog
"Call me Ismael." ZAP!!! KAPOW!!! WHAMM!!!

You reply to my post about graphic novels by resorting to the same 1960s Batman TV show crap that can be found in virtually every article written about comics books/graphic novels for the last 40 years. In other words, you once again insist on judging graphic novels based on your narrow view of them.

If the only books you were familiar with were Regency romances, I'm sure you'd be judging great literature based solely on that.

"Ahab, his long tresses flying in wind, pulled Clarice closer and pointed over the heaving bow of the ship. 'There he is, lovely one! Once I slay the white whale, I will finally be able to approach your father as a man! And then we will be married!'"

Note I'm not saying graphic novels should be placed alongside the great works of literature. I am saying that there are plenty of them that are worth reading. I write this from the point of view of a former English major (back before that became just another form of indoctrination) who has a solid grounding in the great literary works of history (from Greek writings to all those hated "dead white males" from Europe and the U.S.).

Lighten up hvogel

I'm just poking a little fun at ya.

Given the current state of US and World affairs, arguing about whether Graphic Novels are comics or valid literature is pretty trivial. I concede your point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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