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Wednesday, December 03, 2008
David Harsanyi :: Townhall.com Columnist
Giving Up On God (Sort Of)
by David Harsanyi
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Do we need God in politics?

Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker recently penned a provocative column titled "Giving Up on God," wherein she suggested that the Republican Party ditch G-O-D. The piece so rankled James Dobson (Ph.D. in divine insight) that he compared Parker to that seditious bum Benedict Arnold.

Among factions of conservatism, there is a general willingness to coexist and -- sporadically -- win elections. Dobson, conversely, employs a saintly litmus test that marginalizes large swaths of his own party. He has redefined "traditional values," an essential ingredient for Republican victory, to mean illogical rigidity.

Californians, Dobson rationalizes, proved that values voters still matter, because "many who pulled the lever for the 'change' (Obama) espoused also pulled it for the stability provided by marriage as recognized for millennia in all civilized societies."

Actually, if California voters proved anything, it is that voters don't feel the need to vote Republican, even if they happen to recognize the stability provided by the millennia-long need to be hassled by a clingy do-gooder from the opposite sex.

And despite perceptions, Barack Obama did not support gay marriage. In fact, few national Democrats of note explicitly back gay marriage -- notwithstanding their demonizing conservatives. Democrats have made social issues irrelevant by simply ignoring them. Abortion may elicit passionate quarrels among online commentators, but on the ground, policy has scarcely stirred in decades.

Those Californians who voted for Obama and also against gay marriage signaled that social issues are, at the very least, of secondary political importance. Nationally, polls ranging from USA Today/Gallup to CBS News/New York Times to NBC News/Wall Street Journal to Fox News/Opinion Dynamics bear this out. Factors such as "improving the economy," "creating jobs" and "stabilizing the nation's financial institutions" were on the tops of voters' minds this time around, while values issues brought in the rear with other subjects Americans pretend to care about, such as "helping the environment."

Sure, there are citizens who oppose gay marriage not out of bigotry or irrational loathing but out of a sense of tradition and faith. The problem is that the Dobson wing hinders Republicans from offering any feasible counter-solutions. Dobson opposes not only man-on-man matrimony but also civil unions. He opposes adoption for gay couples. Let's face it; he opposes the existence of gays.

Good luck with that.

These are not so much ideologically "conservative" positions as they are moral injunctions. Dobson may grouse in conservative jargon about a court undermining the will of the people. But does anyone believe that Dobson will pound the dais similarly when judicial activism falls his way -- as it has on issues ranging from free speech to medical marijuana?

Aren't Republicans also (hypothetically) the party of limited government and individual freedom?

Dobson claims that Parker and other secular conservatives are trying to marginalize Christian voters, when, in effect, he has it backward. Poor Rudy Giuliani once dressed up as a woman. And Mitt Romney, yeah, he was born into a cult. And this one was divorced too many times, and the other one well, pleasing James Dobson can be a holy hassle.

No, evangelicals are not "ailing" the Republican Party, as Parker contends, but the acceptance of the traditional values wing should not be a prerequisite for being a "real" conservative.

Unless Jesus is going to rectify the stock market, Republicans are in for a lonely ride. And as long as the Dobson wing fools itself into believing political fortunes can be resuscitated by ruining Billy and Bobby's honeymoon, they are in for a decade-long surprise.

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About The Author
Dobson Also Scams The Masses!
By now, most people should have figured out that this so-called "War on Christmas" is a scam. I became a skeptic of this so-called movement when I realized one thing: I'm a secular Jew and I always say "Merry Christmas" during the Christmas season. Notice how I haven't once said "holiday season" in this paragraph? (Well, excluding that example, anyway.) I look around and I see Christmas decorations. It bothers me that the season starts earlier every year, but then again, it bothers most people that it begins earlier every year. However, it doesn't bother me that it is called Christmas. I even keep a fake Christmas tree in my closet year round, mainly because my mother was Christian. Even though I have adopted agnostic Judaism as my religious belief system, I still keep many of my Christian mother's keepsakes, including her picture of Jesus that she prayed to in times of suffering, and the Christmas decorations we would put on our tree every year.

If that can't convince James Dobson that there is no war on Christmas, I don't know what can.

Solid article
Points were well made and should be heeded by party elites and supporters alike.

Don Juan
I have to agree. Mr. Dobson believes he is carrying the sword Jesus talked about with which to divide us. While this may be perfectly acceptable in church, even required, it will not help win elections and is counter-productive in politics. Politics is a very secular undertaking and our founders, divinely inspired imo, wanted it thus. One of the primary reasons was to protect religion from the government. The power to tax is the power to destroy, it is said. Dobson should focus more on the family and less on political activism

interesting column
As a tactical move this column does not seem great. Obviously republicans need both their religious constituency and their other constituencies. And while that was obviously Harsayni's point, he put it in a way designed to alienate the religious constituency, which seems self-defeating.

He does make one important accurate point. One issue is where one stands on social issues. Another issue is how central it is to ones political persona. Obama was all the way to one side on the abortion issue, but he did not make a big deal about abortion. It is not surprising that moderate voters were less bothered by that than by conservatives who not only are far to one side on the issue, but also make that the defining issue in their candidacy.

curious
Politics deals largely with compromise. Compromise is the antithesis of dogma. James Dobson is as dogmatic as they come, he can't and won't compromise. In the end he comes across as a whining simp.

Lon
Your analysis was far superior to the column itself. Thanks.

More Harsanyi
He is exactly right. This is the voice of reason and good strategy. If Republicans could offer a reasonable compromise to gay marriage and rescind DADT, the Dobson Wing's cloak of intolerance would not cover the entire party and turn away moderate and younger voters.


Giving up on God
Dave,

I guess acceptance by society and praise from your fellow man is more important than praise from God. I'd rather be in the minority and remain true to Jesus' teachings than compromise my beliefs to win elections. Winning elections won't get anyone into heaven but compromising Gods'principles for earthly gain has an eternal consequence.

social conservatives
I used to have respect for James Dobson. In our church we used to read some of his materials as they were placed in our church bulletins.

I even once saw an interview with him on Larry King Live where Larry King asked him if he thought that gays chose to be gay and he actually said it wasn't a choice (it was implied he felt it was more of a developmental/environmental

Then...

The marriage issue came up and he did a huge 360 on the gay issue. Now he seems to hate them with a seething passion and the author of this article is correct... he hates the existence of gays.

The social conservatives are a drain on our party. They are a threat to individual freedom.

If they could they would take a lot of things away from us like alcohol, porn, etc etc.

They see the world through the prism of radical Christianity.


What happened to small government?

Why do we need the government telling gays they can't marry?

A lot of christians would want homosexual behavior outlawed.

They are against gay marriage but they are also against civil unions and domestic partner benefits.

Social conservatives are extreme regressives and they are militant. It's funny they call out militant gays but look at the AFA -the American Family Association and Dobson's Focus on the Family. All these organizations are militant christian organizations that targets groups, individuals, business' and they have action alerts and encourage boycotts.

But when the gays organize they ATTACK. What hypocrites.




Dobson
Dobson issued an "Action Alert" calling for his sheep to spam Kathleen Parker's e-mail with negative messages.

The author of this article is correct-- Dobson not only opposes any rights and protections for gays but he opposes the very existance of gays.

Dobson is a hateful religious fanatic and his ilk will only drive people away from the Republican Party.

The culture war on abortion is over.

They know that they will have to stop demonizibng Latinos to get re-elected again.

Now Muslims and gays will be the scapegoats that the Religious Right will go after.

The Religious Right is all about "fear and smear" and ratcheting up prejudice against vulnerable minorities.

Therefore the Religious Right has shrunk the base of the Republican Party.

They have excluded Arab Americans, Muslims, Gays, Latinos, and African Americans with their hateful rhetoric.



Matthew of WV
"But when the gays organize they ATTACK. What hypocrites."

Show me where social conservatives are physically attacking gay people or gay clubs.

Show me where straights are suing gay organizations to force them to publish pro-straight information.

Show me this intimidation.

When gays vandalize churches and assault old ladies, they are just frustrated. When social conservatives believe that traditional marriage is a fundamental part of society and that every civilization that has normalized homosexuality has had unintented problems, we are hateful and "attacking" gays.

(And please don't bring up the whole Matthew Shephard thing again. We all know now that it had far more to do with a drug deal gone wrong than an anti-gay attack)

matthew from OH
Matthew from OH, gays did not attack. You must get your news from Fox News.

Again you are trying to throw a whole group of people who are fighting for equality under the bus because of a few minor incidents.

A few people took a cardboard cross from a woman - a woman that was using her religion as a weapon against others and stomped on it. You would have thought they had beat her up with how some of you guys got all up in arms. Anyhow that act was done by some young kids.

The bigger point is that gays have been on the receiving end of hate, discrimination, sometimes violence from christians for.... centuries.


There is a long history of hate that has been perpetrated by radical religious types.

That legacy still exists today from hate mongers like James Dobson and his followers.

You bring up the Matthew Shepherd case but that is still debatable. Some might say it was a drug deal gone wrong as a way to use the situation politically -those that are against hate crime legislation that includes sexual orientation.

There are some people who deny the very existence of hate crimes and they do so with a political agenda.

The fact is that gays are discriminated against by christians and other religous zealots on a daily basis. It is ignorant, disgusting, and some of us will continue to fight against the hate by the religious right.


during
During the Inquisition some homosexuals were burned at the stake.

During the Holocaust- 50,000 homosexuals were rounded up and at least 10,000 were slaughtered.

During colonial America, gay men were castrated and lesbian women had part of their noses removed as punishment for being homosexual.

There was a time in American where homosexuality was considered a mental disorder (many gays were forcefully institutionalized and abused with lobotomies or electro-shock therapy), gay sex was illegal, and in 1986 the Supreme Court ruled that gays did not have a right to privacy. Police could go into gays homes and if they were in bed with their lovers they could arrest them for sodomy.

As recent as the 70s-- gay teachers could be fired just for being gay.

Even Lou Dobbs admits that most hate crimes are committed against gays and lesbians.

What about Lawrence King, a gay 8th grader that was shot in the head twice and killed by a classmate just because he was gay?

Gay kids are bullied, attacked, and ridiculed all the time in our public schools and the teachers allow it.

Many Islamic countries in the Middle East and Africa make being gay a criminal act and even exectute them.

You can use google images and see pictures of gay teenage boys hanging dead from nooses in Iran because they execute them.

In Nigeria, it is not only against the law to be gay but it is even against the law to advocate for gay rights.

So don't lie and say that gays don't have a history of being persecuted or that theirs is not a civil rights movement.


Stupid Article
This article is so wrong it doesn't deserve additional comment. Has anyone noticed that everything is politically correct in this country except Christainity? The Bible spreaks of a time when people would say evil is good and good is evil. God , please help us.

It's All About Freedom of Speech
Each of us has a right to voice our opinions. American citizenship promises this right. It doesn't matter who agrees, or disagrees--each of us has the right to speak our mind. Even if it is offensive to others. There is no right to not be offended. Freedom of speech opens us up to offense. Suck it up.

So, if Dr. Dobson believes gays have wrong opinions and says so, he has that right. If you disagree, you have the right to say so as well. If you don't like it, don't turn his program on, or read his articles. And then, vote and become active to encourage the change you'd like to see in our society. That, folks, is what happened with Prop 8. The people spoke, with their votes, to say that marriage ain't broke, don't fix it.

But the group that 'H8's' that, the idea that the majority disagrees with them, is throwing a tantrum to get their way. Violence, vandalism, name-calling, take a gander and be proud, you great big Stonewallers, you!!

This faction you claim is Dr. Dobson's doing will keep praying and will keep standing strong, fear not. We do not need to vandalize your meeting places. We do not need to call you vulgar hateful names. We do not need break your signs and stomp on them. But get this one thing straight: we are NOT going to go away just because you can kick and scream. Question in your heart why, and if you truly, honestly want to know, the Answer will come to you. It is NOT 'H8' at all. It is love that exceeds our puny comprehension. It is the love that hates your sin and what it's doing to you and our nation but loves you enough to stand back and let you have your destructive way.

Gay person, I don't agree with homosexuality; it goes against nature and is counterproductive within the realms of our culture. But I love you. Hate me all you want, but I love you, and I won't give up. I won't give up standing up for what I know is right and I won't give up loving you. Period.

Homosexual activists oppose freedom
Homosexuals don't need state sanction to go out on a honeymoon. They need state sanction if they're going to put you in jail for "hate speech" or discrimination for not recognizing their unions. They need state sanction if they're going to cut off a church's tax-exempt status for not performing same-sex weddings.

Yes, homosexuals have been persecuted in the past. But, today they are not persecuted. They enjoy a economic level above that of the average American. But, even if they were persecuted, so are pedophiles, adulterers, rapists, and murderers. They are not healthy to society. If this were a free society, I would at least have the choice to decide what kind of behavior I approve.

I'm not defending the Nazi purge, which wasn't motivated by a dislike of homosexuals, but by the fact that the nazi party itself was heavily homosexual and Hitler wanted to purge rival elements of the party to consolidate his power. Maybe if German people had been less tolerant of homosexuality to start with, the Nazis would never have been able to come to power. Maybe if the Catholic Church had a little less tolerance of homosexuality, hundreds of boys would have been spared molestation. Maybe if some states had less tolerance of homosexuality, kindergarteners wouldn't be exposed to public school lessons and praise of homosexuality - or any sexuality at that young age.

Maybe if liberals had more tolerance they wouldn't be so hateful and opposed to the freedom of people with moral values.


Harsanyi is right
The Reagan Revolution rode in on the message of fiscal conservatism, lower taxes and less regulation. Most of those principles are still accepted by most Americas on both sides of the aisle.

Americans today are far less tolerant of increasing taxes and excess government spending. That aspect of the Reagan message still sticks with us.

Social or religious zealots have hijacked the GOP and alienated most of the moderates and that is where we are losing elections.

We need to return to the Reagan message of lower taxes and less government. Conversion to social conservative principles will have to take place in homes, churches and the schools, one-by-one.

It is ridiculous...
to judge the social issues issue based on John McCain's loss, who was disliked second only to Rudi by social conservatives. Had Huckabee lost by a landslide, there might be an argument. Had we not just finished 8 years of a republican president who recieved media vilification for at least 6 of those years, it might be worth mentioning. Had we had a candidate that did not abandon nearly every conservative principle know to conservatives, it might be worth talking about. Running on being a "Maverick" as your sole platform simply proved to be less effective than runnig on "Change" as your sole platform. I am amazed and astounded that we can consistently get blown away when we move to the center or dare I say to the left of center, and then these idiots come out and say we should have moved further to the left. We could have nominated Che Guevara and they would still blame the those crazy Christians.
Gay marriage should be left to the states and that is all any candidate at the national level needs to say. Abortion should be fought with at least a modicum of courage and the American people would back the issue. I dont have the time to cover every issue, but it is sad that so many have such weak faith that they are so willing to fall for shysters who tell them they must cheer on every deviant sexual behavior lest they be "intolerant" and at the same time convince the masses that killing babies is not really killing babies. The death of logic and common sense is not a pretty thing to watch.

Many Republican are agnostics
Republicans are supposed to be the party of limited government and individual freedom. My family have been conservative Republicans since 1856, when they voted for John C Fremont, the Republican candidate for President.

Like many families of the era, religion was the bailiwick of the wives, raising the children morally. According to my grandfather. all the men folk have pretty much been nonbelievers or agnostics.

We won't be told how to vote by some minister; My father and I stopped being "Easter" Methodist's when the pastor started preaching politics. I won't vote for a party telling me I have to go to church

On the other hand, there IS a war on Christmas; I live in left wing Los Angeles. I don't like secular humanist filing law suits to ban Christmas and Thanksgiving celebrations, either

Our Holy Father
Our Holy Father of course opposes abortion. But as we've seen here lately, he also opposes banks who do nothing for the common good.

There's no doubt in my mind that Father Timothy of the Dallas Diocese voted for Obama, right along with hundreds and hundreds of bishops and millions of practicing Catholics.

Think about it.

In Defense of James Dobson…

Mr. Harsanyi, why are you not asking this question? Does it matter what God we have in politics?

Has the exclusion of God from the public school benefited or degraded the culture? Will you argue that excluding God from our legislative and judicial processes has benefited American?

Would you consider how the Founders would answer your initial question whether we need God in politics? Did their system of government derive itself independent of God? If you are a conservative, then is it not their system that you are trying to conserve? That is, a system that promotes individual liberty and responsibility. How sir, do you propose to conserve what depends on God without God.

Have you forgotten the words of the Declaration of Independence? The men who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor appealed to the Supreme Judge of the world and relied on the protection of Divine Providence. Who do we think we are to propose to do other wise? Do we think we are wiser than the Founders? Yes, that is the problem. Some of us do think that. They have exchanged Moses the lawgiver for Darwin the lawless.

Continued on blog...


conserative web sites
Kathleen Parker,David Harsanyi.Who next Town Hall, Bill Ayers?

Harsanyi
jhohn - harsanyi is far more a conservative than kathleen parker. he's a fiscal conservative for sure, but i've read many column where he defends social conservatives.

Freedom is the Real Issue
I do not spend a lot of time judgning non-Christian behavior. I am not again st gay marriage in theory. I would be fine to have the staet out of the marriage business. I do believe in smaller government and think that anyone who does not think school vouchers is a good idea cannot really be a conservative. I simply think that the laws should be clear in terms of guaranteeing religious freedom (and sadly, they seem to be vague to some judges). This article is polarizing at a time when the Republican Party does not need polarization. I think we should focus on what we supposedly agree on. I would happily approve gay marriage is liberals would vote for school vouchers and religious freedom.
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