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Thursday, July 09, 2009
Dan Gainor :: Townhall.com Columnist
Conservatives, let this be our Waterloo
by Dan Gainor
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Nearly 200 years ago, emperor Napoleon came back from exile and re-conquered France without firing a shot. His conquest of Europe failed when Napoleon, in proper English terms, was soundly thrashed at Waterloo by the Duke of Wellington.

Napoleon might be long gone, but President Obama is doing his best to fill his boots. Sure, he’s taller, and instead of hiding his hand in his shirt, it’s either in our pockets or signing bills and spending money. But his aims are very similar – power and control. Just as the French army was Napoleon’s personal guard, Obama’s followers resemble more of a personality cult than a political party. If he wins, ordinary citizens lose and government grows ever larger.

In the years since Napoleon I lost at Waterloo, that battle became the metaphor for epic defeat. Today, conservatives avoid that kind of major confrontation with the popular Obama for fear of being crushed and sent into political exile. Rather than risk losing, phony conservatives are helping Obama by voting for his massive increases in government.

That’s entirely the wrong strategy. If Waterloo was a major defeat, it was also a major victory. That battle should have taught us that even a man who conquered much of Europe can be defeated. For every Napoleon, there is a Wellington who goes down in history as an epic winner.

This isn’t just one battle. The modern battlefield is healthcare or cap-and-tax or immigration. The issues change rapidly as the president tries to keep his opponents off balance, but the tactics remain the same. Every new campaign overlaps the last, dividing Obama’s enemies and their resources. Stimulus. Cap-and-tax. Healthcare. Attack, attack, attack.

It lacks military precision, but it’s definitely more military campaign than political one. The Obama strategy is one of using each “crisis” to his benefit. A quick search of the White House Web site finds 530 separate mentions of “crisis.” They’ve got an “economic crisis,” a “financial crisis,” a “home mortgage crisis,” a “flooding” crisis, an “international financial crisis,” a couple of “humanitarian” crises and even a “potential environmental crisis” in Australia.

As Obama Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel has said, “Never let a crisis go to waste.”

Rather than call Obama on his “crisis” management, manipulating the news, the media uses the term more than he does. In the past few months, journalists have added an air of immediacy to Obama’s every action by linking it to a perceived “crisis.”

North Korea, Honduras, Pakistan, Iran, Israel and Zimbabwe all have some sort of “crisis” according to recent articles in The Washington Post. Countries don’t just have problems or disputes any more. That’s not sensational enough to give Obama the support he needs.

It’s the same on the domestic front. Want to fix health care? Then MSNBC’s Dr. Nancy Snyderman talks about “America’s biggest health care crisis” in her new show. Want support for another outlandish stimulus bill to fend off the “economic crisis?” Then the networks promote pro-stimulus voices by a factor of more than 2-to-1. In all, the Post had more than 1,000 different Obama “crisis” stories since he took office just six months ago.

It’s part of the mainstream media campaign to keep Obama strong and help the Democrats give away enough spoils to secure permanent power. They are leading the charge against a largely leaderless conservative movement and hoping to turn our defeat into a rout. The theory is activists and voters will turn away and give up without direction.

It doesn’t have to be that way. Napoleon famously said, every soldier carries a marshal’s baton in his pack. In other words, if the movement needs leaders, leaders will emerge.

Meanwhile, the Democrats are emboldened. They run the House and now have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate thanks to the addition of Sen. Al Franken (D-Looney Tunes) and Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Turncoat).

The Republicans and conservative Democrats need to be just as bold. One major victory and Obama’s momentum runs out of gas. Stop government takeover of healthcare, as conservatives did with Clinton, and the whole uber-left campaign grinds to a halt. With no bogus health reform, the even more bogus cap-and-trade bill could fail. If they fail, conservatives could muster support to stop a sell-out on immigration.

To win, conservatives have to be willing to fight and to learn a little history.

Dan Gainor is The Boone Pickens Fellow and the Media Research Center’s Vice President for Business and Culture. His column appears each week on The Fox Forum and he can be seen each Thursday on Foxnews.com’s “Strategy Room.”

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About The Author
Dan Gainor is The Boone Pickens Free Market Fellow and director of the Media Research Center’s Business & Media Institute.
 
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Obamacare is unneeded
The costs for 2008 for emergency room care for the uninsured was $1658 a person or $86 billion (Psychiatric News, September 19, 2008).

BUT THAT’S A LOT CHEAPER THAN THE $1.6 TRILLION PROPOSED BY KING ELECT O AND MINIONS. Overall it would be cheaper, less invasive of privacy, less crippling of America medical services just to give tax credits or cash of $1600 to each uninsured for the usually one year they are uninsured.

If c. 46,000,000 lack health insurance (Bureau of the Census) :**
1) 70% of the uninsured are between ins.’s and do not lack coverage for a year (Census).
2) 20% are illegals (Kaiser Family Foundation)**
3) 10% are chronically unemployable** or homeless,** or otherwise MIA socially (Kaiser Family Foundation);

Of the above:
33% live in households earning over at least $50,000 a year and elect not to buy ins./21% live in households making over $75,000 annually (Census).
25% are between 18 and 35 and deliberately do not cover themselves. Their med. exp. average c. $1000 a year out of pocket (National Institute of Health).
34% are children eligible for Medicaid or SCHIPS, but are not registered. They can be treated for small or greater med. problems at any emergency room, which is what the uninsured usually elect to do (Families USA Wed).

The Office of the Budget predicts BEST CASE $1.6 trillion, but John McCain says that cost will be minimally $3 TRILLION.

(CBO estimation that says O's numbers for med. *reform* are well under evaluated.)

Regardless, with the $1 TRILLION stimulus and $1.6 TRILLION deficit, there is no money.
** Census estimate, but MIT says the 46,000,000 number is actually bogus, as the 7-30,000,000 illegals (however many) will not be covered by any plan, and the homeless number is very high as it has never come in above 3 million in any real count.)



FORCED HEALTH CARE
THE OBAMANATION PLAN TO FINE THOSE WHO ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE GAY COALITION PLAN OF PROTECTING THE PERVERTS. ABORTION, SEXUAL TRANSMITTED DISEASE CARE WILL HAVE PRIORITY OVER DISEASES AND ILLNESS THAT ARE NOT CONTEGIST.

Media
I am always amused when I hear people say that the media is working in tandem with Obama or any other politician.

The media cares about one thing only; ratings and thus money.

LOL
How many Waterloos can the Goofy Old Party endure?

Every times you lose an election, the conservative rant is "let this be our waterloo". You said the NY-20 was your waterloo. Then the MN senate race was your waterloo.

What's next for the Goofy Old Party?


RINO
The Rinos are the GOP. Conservaatives brought them success in 1980 and 1996. Each time the Movement was betrayed by the GOP. Not terribly wise it seems to keep repeating the same mistake.
One might think of Cato who preferred death at his own hand to tyranny under Ceasar (Kaiser, Czar by the way). One what hill do we choose to die? If not for the Constitution, free government and Liberty, then what? Is there nothing worth losing everything for? Certainly the last line of the Declaration might give us guidance.
If America continues to reject it's birthright for pottage of empty promises, mankind will curse us and the future of humanity will be one of a dark tyranny. Is that a legacy free men would leave there grandchildren?

Robert the Amused...
"The media cares about one thing only; ratings and thus money."

Hmm, that must be why the Cool-Aid Network News and A-MESS-NBC keep repeating those insanity that get them beaten on ratings night after night, year after year?

phil
What hill do i choose to call mine, against all comers? Financial restrictions on leaving the country would be a very serious development As long as i can vote with my feet and assets, i'll just take my last few golden years somewhere else. Barry is not my problem. Me and Mr. Garand put in our time conserving the country i wanted to live in. But like Reagan so wisely said, the free are never more than one generation away from losing freedom. Its the young and foolish who have voted us here. Until this demographic wises up, revolt in most circumstances is merely Quixotic. I did say "most". If some enemy should stroll into my sights, and i was reasonably certain i could get away with it, i might bust a cap or two.

hill
Pistol,
Thanks for the reply and for your help with Mr. Garand. If only there were somewhere left to flee. This is it and our decision is now at hand. Do we stand or submit?

YES. GROW SOME B*LLS!
.
While I like the article, I only wish the author had titled it "...let it be OBAMA's Waterloo".

"Deeper significance" aside (i.e. "it can mean a victory also!"), "Waterloo" is generally understood as a f*ckin' total blowout LOSS.

But, YES, the Right (at the moment including the GOP, as long as they survive...) needs to take off the gloves to these thugs. NOW.

PISTOL PHILL
Why don't you pack up your guns and grab Phill, and head out to the Honduras? You guys with your army of "True Conservatives" should be able to overthrow the gov't there in a few hours at most. Then you can show all of us misled capitalists the errors of the American Way. The enemy will be in your sights all the time and you can prove what a manly man you are.
The demographic has wised up- that's why the Democrats are going to win for longer than you'll be on the planet. Somehow I don't see you doing anything but whining long and hard! Enjoy your life of TYRANNY!

Obama is far more the
Duke of Wellington than Napoleon. Perhaps Newt fills that roll?

0bama is more like Louis XVIII
who needed the English and Germans to help him regain power against Napoleon--not at all Wellington!

Obama Has Given Us So Much
When he was elected, I thought that he would probably be fairly moderate once faced with the reality of governing a country rather than running for office, his only area of achievement hitherto apparent. I was wrong. He has, in six short months, quadrupled the national debt, driven business expansion capital to extinction, and monetized the national debt to the tune of a trillion dollars. And much, much, more.

He has created so much future misery, misery that will be very difficult to waffle away from or blame on somebody else. He and his merry band of miscreants are going to be held responsible for the misery that will-- not might-- result from these tried and true actions that have always resulted in economic disaster.

If conservatives can not put together a winning platform and a winning candidate when his chickens come home to roost, we don't deserve to win.

phil, Robert
phil
Law-abiding citizens with a couple bucks are welcome pretty much everywhere, so i don't feel like there is no place to go, should the unlikely happen. My cousin just bought some acerage in Belize, there is an active retired military presence in Panama, my brother has been looking into some ocean front in Costa Rico. Things will have to get a lot worse before i left my grandchildren so far away, though. And there is always the chance that whether we like it or not, we may have no more choices than an LA liquor store owner in a riot. Resist or be destroyed.
Robert
I agree. That's why i didn't vote for McCain. I wanted clear cut information to be available to the voters. First, one has to get the mule's attention. I figure losing 500,000 jobs a month is a good start towards losing 500,00 votes per month. How many votes did Barry win by anyway?

Could be...
But have the GOP (men, that is)in the house checked their testicles at the door with the 3rd in line like the democrats have? Boehner usually sounds like a conservative, but isn't entirely consistent with it. As for job losses, are union member job losses in proportion with of the rest of the nation? I doubt it. Unions have morphed into organized crime, including intimidation and threat. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm usually correct.

We could be
looking soon at "crisis burnout".

Whenever we have an old fashioned thunderstorm, weather forecasters get on the television channels and talk about tornado watches (whose got time to sit and stare out the window for four hours) tornado warnings, severe thunderstorm warnings, etc., etc. until soon no one pays attention.

What started out to be a good warning system has been misused to sensationalize weather. Now, when people hear these, they just yawn and turn the channel.

Hopefully, this will soon be the result of the crisis overload from the Obama administration. Once people realize that most of these crises are manufactured, people will be a lot more resistant to handing over their money for a “cure”.

Robert Ca
You would think that the media cares only about ratings and money. A businessman would think that way.
However, these people are far removed from business. They are simply ideologues.
How else can you explain ABC's "Free" special on obamacare. Or the NYT's consistently hysterical leftist slant while staring at red ink for years. No busnessmen are they. They are committed leftists setting our country up for the fall.

Ms. Kelly
Ms Kelly, great observation and highly relevant to our modern America.

What's that?! McDonald's is out of nuggets!? Quick! Call CNN! It's a crisis! A travesty! It's blatant "institutional" racism! It's the "disaster" of the century!

Obama (doesn't) Care.....
He just allowed the release of 4 Iranians we had captured and held who were suspected of smuggling into Iraq, explosives, explosive devices and armored vehicle penetrating devices.

These are the weapons that have killed and maimed so many of our brave soldiers. Obama tried to hide this from the American people by calling these terrorists "emissaries" when they are actually war criminals who are probably responsible for many deaths. This was all part of a deal which will only benefit Iran and the terrorists. If you find this hard to believe or if you feel betrayed by this, go to American thinker and read the article by Lance Fairchok. This was recently done behind the backs of we, the American people.

American Thinker 7/09/09
Betraying American Soldiers: Iranian War Criminals Go Free.

Obama just apologized to the G8 Summit again for us. When will his insanity and treason stop??

Correspondants
What is it that Conservatives seek? What is it that terrifies those who value freedom over security?
Turn if you will to Dr. Samuel Johnson. "The irregular combinations of fanciful invention may delight a while, by that novelty of which the common satiety of life sends us all in quest; but the pleasures of sudden wonder are soon exhausted, and the mind can only repose on the stability of truth."
There it is. Hegel, his followers and all their manufactured crises fail as against "These truths" and Jefferson.

PISTOL PETE
Isn't Belize a FRENCH protectorate? You wouldn't last long with all that free medical care. Even Costa Rico is waay too socialist for manly men who don't no stinkin doctor to tell you when you're sick! And no military? No weapons allowed?
Why not Israel? Everyone packs and it's the safest country on earth, as well as an American protectorate. No black will ever be elected to high office there either.

Word Power
Would like to propose a word..actualy two.
To bring about a Waterloo.

If, one is not given to historical tenants..or even knows of such.."We the People"....." When in the Course of Human Events" or cannot understand that socialism has failed world-wide to include the early colonies..that taxation beyond very,very basic needs..already defined..is stealing..

When one fails at the basics of social contract..John Locke...Live an honest life..be law abiding..be respectful ..Do Not intrude upon your fellow man/woman.

When one professes a faith..and at 95% and 65% ..., when called to act.. rejects even the basics of such faith...

When one is more interested in self and more interested in personalities than ideas...

When one seeks unearned position from anothers' labor and in "defence" of such evil would denounce all light shed against such darkness...while, standing upon, "rights" not earned ,nor , in due consideration, while given, are horrifically abused... I give you..

A Waterloo...::

DUD-"american".......Note the Hyphen.

Word Power
Would like to propose a word..actualy two.
To bring about a Waterloo.

If, one is not given to historical tenants..or even knows of such.."We the People"....." When in the Course of Human Events" or cannot understand that socialism has failed world-wide to include the early colonies..that taxation beyond very,very basic needs..already defined..is stealing..

When one fails at the basics of social contract..John Locke...Live an honest life..be law abiding..be respectful ..Do Not intrude upon your fellow man/woman.

When one professes a faith..and at 95% and 65% ..., when called to act.. rejects even the basics of such faith...

When one is more interested in self and more interested in personalities than ideas...

When one seeks unearned position from anothers' labor and in "defence" of such evil would denounce all light shed against such darkness...while, standing upon, "rights" not earned ,nor , in due consideration, while given, are horrifically abused... I give you..

A Waterloo...::

DUD-"american".......Note the Hyphen.

Love your point Dan, but
Dan writes:
"In the years since Napoleon I lost at Waterloo, that battle became the metaphor for epic defeat. Today, conservatives avoid that kind of major confrontation with the popular Obama for fear of being crushed and sent into political exile."

"fear" bows, courage of conviction fights to the death.

Wellington and his men had no fear of death, let alone criticism of a media, like politicians do.

They knew the enemy and the cost of stopping him.
Blood, not words.

I doubt the poets of today will ever write another poem like this one.

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Has any poet ever wrote an inspirational poem about Congress?
The Senate?
A politician?

Probably some Statesman, but I recall none about politicians.

They inspire disgust and who writes poetry to express disgust?

You Terrorist!
Enough said...

Sol_Invictus
You miss the point of why I used that particular poem.

"I doubt the poets of today will ever write another poem like this one"

"Has any poet ever wrote an inspirational poem about Congress?
The Senate?
A politician?"

Do you ever try to understand another person's point before getting upon a soap box to preach about something that has nothing to do with why I chose that poem?

It was for comparing the difference in the age of Wellington and the Light Brigade to this one today.

Not about its futility against the Russians.

Nor about telling the Republicans to rush cannons.

The poets of today write whiny cry baby weepy victim nonsense.

Like this crap I will post in the next thread from

Maya Angelou
Million Man March Poem

Junk
Million Man March Poem







The night has been long,
The wound has been deep,
The pit has been dark,
And the walls have been steep.

Under a dead blue sky on a distant beach,
I was dragged by my braids just beyond your reach.
Your hands were tied, your mouth was bound,
You couldn't even call out my name.
You were helpless and so was I,
But unfortunately throughout history
You've worn a badge of shame.

I say, the night has been long,
The wound has been deep,
The pit has been dark
And the walls have been steep.

But today, voices of old spirit sound
Speak to us in words profound,
Across the years, across the centuries,
Across the oceans, and across the seas.
They say, draw near to one another,
Save your race.
blah blah blah

Maya Angelou



Specter
was a demoCRAP as a rino until finally, fully exposed, so he returned to the demo crotch. Why feigned surprise?

Talent Scout of 1:22
Ouch. That work by Maya Angelou was awful. If she actually let that drivel be published over her name, she isn't much for literary standards. All the brilliant work about man's inhumanity to man, and she comes up with that.

I am uncertain. Was the blah blah blah actually part of what she wrote, or was it your shorthand for further verses?

doubtful on the repugnants
Truly I don't hold out much hope for the repugs to get it right. If they truly understood the purpose of government and the rights of man they would not engage in votes or negotiations concerning passage of laws that in the first place are null, void and of on effect. If they understood these things and were interested in true constitutionality, they would be rallying the people, they would be standing on the steps of the capitol building declaring the DEFIANCE of the democrat statists who ignore the law and set up illegal agencies that take our money and liberty with no consent.
ALL ACTS outside of Article 1, Section 8 have NO legal authority. The constitution is that which directs those entrusted to act on the states behalf. The federal government may not take upon itself powers not granted. WE DO NOT HAVE to negotiate for those rights of life, liberty and property/fruit of labor which belong to us, and are not given at the behest of government.

I think that some people...
...on this thread have gotten their wars mixed up.

Waterloo was the final act of the Napoleonic Wars. The Charge of the Light Brigade was an event of gthe Crimean War in Russia.

Waterloo happened in 1815.
The Charge took place in 1854.

Waterloo is in Belgium, or the "Low Countries."
The Charge happened near what is now Sevastopol, on the Black Sea.

Get your history straight, people.

Obama's Waterloo Is Called...

Cloward-Piven, stupid.

You want ObamaCare? I will give it to you in the next post.

For ObamaCare Lovers

Both Canada, the UK, and France have SOCIALIZED medicine. All suck. Canadians will cross the border to seek medical care in the US, even though such is, technically, illegal.

I have lived in two and know that of which I write.

Trust me, the SOCIALIZED medical system in France SUCKS.

Don't believe me? Then ask Princess Diana's ghost. The French system mandates that people be treated at the scene FIRST, then transferred to a hospital.

If you will recall, Diana was worked on in an ambulance for TWO HOURS before they brought her to Hôpital de la Pitie Salpetriere, which was a mere six kilometres away from the crash scene.

In America, she would still be alive.

The same thing is true with Natasha Richardson, who suffered a head injury at a ski resort near Quebec. The Province has no medical helicopters. By the time she got to Montreal, it was really too late. Her family brought her here for futile treatment.

She would still be alive today, if she had been treated in the US.


Research the UK's NHS and NICE Board and study Health Canada.

Even people of modest means dig into their pockets or seek treatment here.

Under ObamaCare, they will have to go to Switzerland, a country that accepts paying customers.

"Wild Bill"
Sir
The poem of the Light Brigade had nothing to do with trying to align it with Waterloo.

ok?

Smile, its so difficult to relate an intent on the internet in a couple posts.

I may not be able to do it in a book, let alone a post.

I was just trying to point out what has inspired poets then and today.

Mentioning the Congress and the Senate have never inspired anyone to write poetry.

My fault for trying to make a point and failed to make it.

What inspires poet then and now.

Not about alignment of that poem with Wellington and Waterloo.

Pistol
Yes
The blah blah blah is what I typed.

Not enough room to post her entire silly poem.

Compare Lord Tennyson to Maya Angelou and what they were/are inspired by.

Tennysen was born in 1809 and about 6 years old when the battle of Waterloo occurred in 1815.

For the history affectionado's, 1815 is the year Tennysen began school.

So he was very much aware of the Battle of Waterloo

Little Gray Houses For You And Me

Obama's strategy is called Cloward-Piven.

Interest rates have jumped, at least, 1% since March.

According to the CBO, unemployment is ONLY 9.5%, but among Fundies it is ~17%.

Raise taxes in a deep recession and you get a depression. Jusk ask Herbert Hoover's ghost.

Spend like a madman in a deep recession and you get a deeper depression. Just ask FDR's ghost.

Try centralized government. Just ask Stalin's ghost how to create a disaster.

Borrow like there is no tomorrow and you get Argentina without Mark Sanford.

Japan's "Lost Decade" is now "Lost Decades."

Print money like it is water and you get the Weimar Government or Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

Can you have high interest rates within a depression? Absolutely. See Weimar and Zimbabwe.

Let me tell you something: stimulus, bailouts, borrowing and printing are all a one-trick unicorn that no one has ever been able to ride.

Do you know the words of L'Internationale? I do and find myself in agreement with most of it.

Yours truly,

A relatively young, Capitalist Pig.


BTW: I just "created or saved" 14 gazillion jobs while I was writing this.

Crisis, the sky IS falling but not
due to anything you could read about in the MSM. It is falling due to the fraud in the WH destroying humanitiy's "last, best chance"!

poetry
Try:
"How far is St. Helena
From an Emperor of France?"
Look it up.

I'd rather it was the "Greasy Grass" and
O'Vomit was in the Custer role!!!


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!!

I will write my own poem
For Congress and the US Senate, no one else will.
My first poem ever.

I can leap over houses
Mountains are small
My mouth walks across the earth, and my eyes rule it all.

I am above it all and fear nothing ..well maybe the press.
From them, I seek caress.

I boldly face the world and the people beneath my gaze, all except for journalists, who use the same stock of trade.

Words words words, we play them all, happy days come by my speech, that and my and the media fill the breech.

I face all enemies but one, ho ho ho, no one knows who he is but me.
I am slicker than snot in sucking up to the press, who tells me what's hot.

I hold up the banner of bs, but bs is where its at, bull scat, and the white flag of surrender to the *&^%()$#&* media.

Ok, so it does not rhyme, sue me


Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
I like peanut butter
And hate Congress

My second poem

Mr. Gainor: You mentioned some
important pieces of legislation that are being considered, and they need to be stopped, but you stopped short of mentioning some other very important pieces, such as "Hate Crimes" legislation, otherwise known as "The Pedophile Protection Act." In that bill, "sexual orientation" is deliberately not defined. (Republicans attempted to get it defined, but were rebuffed.) As a result, a person who commits every kind of abominable act, from pedophelia to necrophelia to bestiality is "protected" from "hate crimes" or, to state it more accurately, they are preferred classes of victims of violent crimes. Their cases would be tried in federal rather than state courts.

Moreover, in the health care, its proponents are attempting to include abortion, while limiting care to the elderly, and to coerce medical personnel and pharmacists to perform abortions (and euthanasia?) or prepare medications for the same regardless of their consciencious objections.

I think those things are important, too.

Contradiction in Terms

"Phony conservatives"

Mr. Gainor, you begin your article with a history lesson on a subject over 200 years old. However, it is recent history where you fail.

Sir, conservatism is phony. It is held up as something it isn't. It contains no original thought, and those that postulate on it, such as yourself, continue to believe it is something it clearly isn't, despite all of the recent history showing otherwise.

Questions: Reagan was a conservative. Did he spend less in the White House? Did he retard the growth of government and subsidies?

Has "any" conservative slowed the growth of government in the last 40 years? Have they moved to reduce the encroachment on states being able to govern themselves by not attaching strings to federal monies allocated to them?

Has federalism won the day? Do you see it anywhere?

Were all those conservatives "phony" that you voted for who increased government subsidies 28% from 2000-2008?

Are conservatives still being pushed along a path that they do not wish to go? Are they making headway in the GOP? Do they have a leg to stand on when it comes to the topic of limited government?

Mr. Gainor, conservatism is phony, and those that continue to believe it isn't are fooling themselves.

That's the real history lesson, sir.

American writes
Mr. Gainor, conservatism is phony
========================

So whats real
To you

My conservatism is as real as anything you believe in.

RR was not a king, he faced a democrat Congress and Senate.

GW Bush is not or ever was a Conservative.

This country has not run a real conservative since RR.

Even so, I had some points to disagree with him about.
Like caving to Ted Kennedy and amnesty.

A "once in a life time" amnesty that has now given us 30-40 million more illegals

There are no phony
Conservatives, just phony republicans and democrats

talent scout

"RR was not a king, he faced a democrat Congress and Senate."

The 97th, 98th, and 99th Congresses in the Senate were controlled by Republicans. Conservative Republicans who got elected espousing conservative values. They, along with Reagan, rubber-stamped the Democrat House spending bills.

"GW Bush is not or ever was a Conservative."

Ah, yes, the old shibboleth; Bush was not a conservative. Well, he campaigned as a conservative, and was elected twice by conservatives all over the country. He states he is as much a conservative as you, talent.

He also governed as a conservative by caving, as you put it, to the socialists.

"This country has not run a real conservative since RR."

I'd be interested to hear what you think a "real conservative" is, talent. How many "real conservatives" do you think have run in the past 40 years. If Reagan is the model of your "real conservative" then you are going to be disappointed continuously.

"Even so, I had some points to disagree with him about. Like caving to Ted Kennedy and amnesty."

You use the word "caving", and it is appropriate. I use the word "enabling", such as enabling socialists; and that is exactly what conservatism does: enables socialists.

Conservatives have not, "stood athwart history yelling, "STOP!", as the Buckleys of the world would have you believe, it has basically operated on the premise of asking the socialists "how fast?" to their question of "how far?".

"My conservatism is as real as anything you believe in."

No. Your conservatism, and ideology is in fact a liberal one. If you believe as our founders, you are a liberal; not a conservative. Conservatives do not have core beliefs because the very core of their existence is extrapolated from liberal thought.

American
You do a lot of assumptions, having never discussed anything in detail with me.

Yes, I guess the Senate was majority republican.

Let me make it clear about party politics.

I do not like either party, period, and never did.

No need to convince me politicians lie.

You said:
"Ah, yes, the old shibboleth; Bush was not a conservative. Well, he campaigned as a conservative, and was elected twice by conservatives all over the country. He states he is as much a conservative as you, talent"

So when did i ever get a say who the republicans put up?
Or the democrats, the independents, etc.

I do not get to say anymore than you do.

You write:

No. Your conservatism, and ideology is in fact a liberal one. If you believe as our founders, you are a liberal; not a conservative. Conservatives do not have core beliefs because the very core of their existence is extrapolated from liberal thought.
======================

Definition
Founders were Liberal for wanting change from the old government of Royalty.

I am conservative because I do not want the Government of the Founders changed.

The word conservative or liberal can be used in how I want to use it just like you do, and do not sit atop all the rest of us and are the one and the true American.

American writes:
"I'd be interested to hear what you think a "real conservative" is, talent."

One who holds to the same values and Government the Founders created

Robert from CA
Go ahead and be "amused" all you want, but the media has shown that they are willing to LOSE money, readership, and viewership, soley to promote a far-left agenda. Other than Hollywood, they are perhaps the only institution in America willing to lose money in order to advance and maintain a politically correct viewpoint, while simultaneously trying to smear and cripple opposing views. Witness CNN, whose idea of a 'vigourous debate' is to have two or three liberals debating how wrong or evil conservative ideas are, without actually having a single conservative in the discussion. Newspapers like the NYT is a print version of the same one-sided, monolythic viewpoint, which is totally leftist.

Your anaylsis is ridiculous.


To annfan
By your logic, the New York Times would increase its circulation if it published editorials questioning whether Obama is really a US citizen and announcing that he is training a Black Militant Thug Corps to invade American homes and confiscate guns.

Doug Rich
They've got a plan. Joel the Oppressor has posted that after his gang invades Washington, they will set up military tribunals where all federal employees will be tried for treason, then executed (he kind of waffled between hanging and firing squads). Our Joel is a Constitutional scholar (the reason he wants to kill the feds is that they do all kinds of things not consistent with Joel's reading of the Constitution). Joel's intention, on the other hand, honors the Constitution.

Haven't seen Joel around here for a few days; I wonder if he's been hospitalized.
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