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Wednesday, December 05, 2007
Dan Gainor :: Townhall.com Columnist
Climate Changes, but Media Remain the Same
by Dan Gainor
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Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



Once upon a time, Bob Hope and Bing Crosby went off on the road to Bali. Fifty-five years later, politicians are heading to Bali for sun, sand and socialism – and they want us to pay for it to the tune of trillions of dollars.

The Financial Times reported November 28 that the United Nations expects “rich industrialized countries shouldering a cut of 80 percent” of emissions. In effect, eco-extremists want the U.S. to spend hundreds of billions of dollars each year. The U.N. position makes us pay and lets China and India almost off the hook, despite their growing economies and growing pollution.

That view will be center stage as 130 Environment Ministers are joined by other VIPs at the island resort for the December 3-14 conference of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change. Counting their families, friends, handlers, aides, assistants and toadies, that will probably equal thousands of people lining up at the public trough for a tropical vacation.

Paying for that little excursion is minor, even though they will more than max out the local airports with plane after plane of smug globalists. The big payday comes at the meeting, when the U.N. tries to determine a replacement for the foolish and futile Kyoto treaty on climate change.

Kyoto never caught on here. In the United States – under both Presidents Clinton and Bush – it never got Senate approval, though the media consistently blame only Bush for having “rejected the Kyoto Treaty.” The treaty is ending its lifespan, but Australia just signed on. That makes ours the last major nation to oppose the pact.

Now the questions are what next and how much that will cost the American taxpayer. The answers to both questions will be bad. The hypocritical do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do crowd wants to intrude into every aspect of our lives – from the energy we are allowed to use to the bulbs that light our homes.

Al Gore said as much on Capitol Hill in March. Hillary Clinton joined in that little bit of uber-government early in November. “We will phase out the incandescent light bulb,” she told an Iowa audience.

All that costs money. The latest U.N. report estimates “the world must spend 1.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product each year” to fend off global warming. That’s a subtle way of saying great gobs of money.

According to the CIA World Factbook, global GDP in 2006 was $66 trillion. The U.N. wants $1 trillion per year – at least. The West’s share (much of which the U.N. wants us to pay) is $800 billion every year.

Those numbers are rising – just a few months ago, a previous estimate had put the global total closer to $800 billion, but it has now risen to $1 trillion.

And a bit of bipartisan insanity introduced in the Senate by Sens. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and John Warner (R-Va.) would require companies to scale back greenhouse-gas emissions, costing the United States $4 trillion to $6 trillion over the next 40 years.

While those estimates are billions of dollars higher than many previous predictions of Kyoto’s economic impact, they are only the beginning. Once the U.N. has its claws into the American taxpayer, anything goes. As the famous Washington quote goes: “A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.”

How are they getting away with it? Partly because of ridiculously one-sided reporting from the American press. From August to November, the big three broadcast networks did 170 stories on climate change. Few stories questioned prophecies of actual danger or pointed out the debate within the scientific community.

NBC was the worst with 94 climate stories – more than one per day. The network also threw its considerable corporate weight behind Al Gore’s Live Earth concert, providing more than 75 hours of air time. Then, to top it off, NBC Universal launched a “Green Is Universal” week filled with eco-propaganda. The highlight, or lack thereof, was the football preview show where they turned out the lights on the set to claim they were saving energy.

It hasn’t stopped since. On November 27, NBC’s Kerry Sanders told a heartwarming tale of the nearly extinct Key Deer population surviving. But disaster was just around the corner for the dear deer. “Wildlife experts say while the Key Deer population has rebounded, there are still long-term threats – like global warming,” said Sanders.

That is precisely the issue the Bali conference will address: the threat posed by an evil mankind to an innocent earth. But where is the other side of the issue? The media bombard us with constant economic concerns, yet ignore the devastation a multibillion- dollar hit to the economy – annually – would cause.

When Crosby went to Bali, at least he had Hope. All we have to watch out for us is the media – and that’s no hope at all.

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About The Author
Dan Gainor is The Boone Pickens Free Market Fellow and director of the Media Research Center’s Business & Media Institute.
 
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I hope
they all buy one-way tickets and get a nice AGW sunburn.

Once again, the unconstitutional U.S. gov't officials telling the American people they are criminals if they don't play along with the propaganda.

How many AGW deniers will be attending the festivities to voice my view? I'll even pay extra for that.


Hmmm, NBC is owned by GE...
Let me see, GE makes the very expensive Light Bulbs that will replace all those oh so cheap incandescent light bulbs. Hmmm.

Couldn't be, that GE told NBC to push that whole global warming thing to sell more expensive light bulbs could it? Nah, that's just a conspiracy theory.

But wait, doesn't GE also make the ever so expensive energy saving appliances, too? Nah, that's just too much to believe. There's no corporate synergy between GE and NBC. They are completely separate companies, and no one would ever accuse them of that.

BTW, that whole saves energy, and lasts ten years crap about the new bulbs is baloney! I'm changing them out at a rate of about one bulb a month, and I only switched over less than a year ago. They also don't work worth a hoot, and I have to use multiple bulbs to get the same light, so no savings on electricity, or long life bulbs. Huge waste of $$. (Just like low flow toilets, that took 2-3 flushes - EVERY time. No savings there, either! But I'm sure the people who made low flow toilets profited!)

Fair enough, but...
"The latest U.N. report estimates “the world must spend 1.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product each year” to fend off global warming."

That doesn't look at the flip side. According to the Stern Report, the economic costs of doing nothing about AGW would be 10-20% of GDP. So which one would you choose?

Carbon Offsets for Sale!
Since I'm in need of some capital to help get our new home business off the ground I will be delighted to sell carbon offsets to any environmentalists who are interested.

On receipt of your payment (I take PayPal), I will email (its a near-paperless office taking full advantage of modern electronic communications), a certificate promising:

I will NOT fly to Bali this winter to attend a climate change conference or for any other reason.

I will not drive anywhere without at least 2 people in the car this winter or for the foreseeable future (just because I have a disability that prevents me from driving doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to my fair share of auto emissions).

I will maintain a year-round garden -- reducing the need to transport food AND absorbing excess CO2 in a 2-for-1 deal.

I will cook a sizable majority of my family's meals from scratch -- reducing both the energy and the packaging used in the commercial preparation of ready-to-eat foods.

Finally, I will refrain from watching any Nascar races until February 2008.

God Bless you
Mother of 4 for your sacrifices.

I shall suggest we all wear ribbons as reminders of the gardeners in our midst.

Fuzzy
Those races are very hard to give up -- even for only 74 days. ;-)

Frey
Why do you believe either projection? Alan Greenspan says that he has spent most of his life trying to do economic projections, and has not seen a system that actually makes accurate predictions.

None of the people making these claims comes to the table with clean hands; it is in the interests of the UN to try to downplay the costs of cutting emissions and Baron Stern is former VP of the World Bank (a left-wing organization) and wrote his report at the behest of Britain's Labour government. This could have lead him to err on the gloomy side.

Conservative = be as greedy as possible
Conservatives do not care if climate change is real or not. They live for the here-and-now. It's a dog-eat-dog world and conservatives want to get as much as they can as fast as they can. Greed is good for capitalism.

Of course, they don't want you to bring any of that up when they're wearing their "Conservative Christian" hat since greed is frowned upon in The Bible.

Oh, how the conservatives must toss and turn in their beds at night.

What scientific debate?
Dan writes "Few stories questioned prophecies of actual danger or pointed out the debate within the scientific community."

What debate within the scientific community? You mean Ann Coulter saying climate change is not true? Yeah, that's a real debate.

The only debate that the scientific community is having is what to do about global warming, not whether it is real or not.

Dan Gainor, oooh I'm scared!
Do you notice how every global warming skeptic tries to discredit global warming by saying how much it's going to cost if we implement some of the emission cut backs?

Well, sorry, but that's the cost of clean water, air, and food.

Have you ever thought about the cost individual families have to pay for their children's asthma, or the increase in other respiratory diseases, due to the pollution?

Shouldn't companies be personally responsible for the pollution they emit into our air and water?

Surprise surprise surprise
I don’t see why anyone is surprised by these numbers. Clinton’s own estimate of the cost of Kyoto was low-balled at 300 billion dollars and that was just for the U.S.! Other think tank estimates put the U.S. costs for Kyoto at the 500 to 600 billion range and none of these estimates accounted for the loss of industry on the economy.

All of this for an outrageous lie. And on top of that I hear that those 3rd world scum suckers are now demanding their payments from us that they were promised. I would be RITFLMAO if I wasn’t crying so hard. You see, all of the Lamocrat candidates are for tax and cap and almost all of the Republican candidates are for tax and cap. Fred T. and Ron P. are the only Republican candidates that I know who do NOT support this AGW scam.

Folks you better pray that Fred or Ron is elected.

syler
Tell me why the temperature is rising on Mars.

If you believe for 5 seconds that we can control the temperature of the earth, you gotta be a nut!

®

Money Grab
Hey, if you are one of three hundred countries and someone comes to you and says "I've got a way for you to get a couple of billion from the US, all you have to do is vote for Kyoto," well, of course you're going to do so.

Climate change has nothing to do with this.

Furthermore, any money we would give out (if the US is ever stupid enough to go along with such a fraud) would only serve to speed up the indusrialization of these backwards nations so that they too can become another CHina, spewing tons of pollutants into the atmosphere.

The left needs to get a life.

Reducing pollution
You want to reduce pollution? Get rid of the fifty million illegals here in this country driving cars and just living, an act that requires energy of all sorts to be expended be outside sources.

This whole debate will eventually boil down to one question: Available Resources vs. overpopulation.

The bulk of American scientists
More than 19,000 American scientists and engineers signed a petition back in 1998 stating the following:

"We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

"There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

Why didn't the national press corps take note of the sheer number of scientists who simply don't buy the AGW nonsense? Why are they still pretending that there is no scientific opposition to their lame, intellectually insupportable assault on reason?

(Unrelated to this topic, please read my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture", at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

good old days
the good old days...

Yep,, 1000 years ago when there were untold BILLIONS of beasts on the earth. Releasing METHANE (farting) in quantities that would make our current levels seem puny. (imagine the UN saying animals METHANE has more to do with AGW today than all the GAS CRAP combined, and then not realizing that the earth at times has had exponentially times more animals in the past than today)

And think of the evil HUMAN, coming along and killing many of these METHANE producing animals. I'm sure most of the humans doin the evil deeds where WHITE to boot.

HMMMMM,,, some simple logic for the LIBTARD crowd.
1. Animal METHANE produces more Greenhouse crap than HUMANS, a lot more(per the UN).
2. Exponentially more animals in the past creates exponentially more METHANE in the past as well.
3. GW should have occured in larger degrees from this animal methane in the past than today. But did not.


Thats sad folks,,, a UN LIBTARD theory that is refuted by the simple facts of more METHANE produced by more animals in the past. SAD...

For all you believers in the AGW theory,,, Please think of farting animals (including yourself) as the REAL enemy and not the SUV.

As to the media... maybe they can get the REAL SCOOP and do a story on overactive bladders. Or how about OBESE folks after a bowl of CHILI. Or even go to the dairy farm and put a sensor on the butt of a COW.

AHHHH now that would be a REAL story.

good new days
LIBTARDS,, all is not lost, don't totally dispair.

Humans also cause methane or farting. There are more humans on the earth today than there was in the past, thus more methane.

Your background in blaming the HUMAN for what you THINK ILLS the earth has a NEW thesis. RUN WITH IT.

Think of it, you don't like the HUMAN, you get to blame the HUMAN, you can take the heat off the ANIMAL (PETA will love you for this), and you now have a solid explanation for WHY the earth is overpopulated.

AHHHH, LIBTARDS TOOO da LOOO

I like CO2
CO2 is my friend. I hope to increase my CO2 emissions exponentially in the years to come, and I urge others to do the same. Al Gore is a vain, lying eco-whore who refuses to listen to dissenters or to retract his many blatant falsehoods. He may well be the antiChrist -- no, wait, I think Hillary's earned that designation.

Free Ramos and Compean
Global warming is sphere nonsense

GW scam
let's face it. if the UN weren't using the GW scam to get their corrupt hands on more money, you would not hear about it.

i have gotten to the point where i have to look at the raw data myself along with the algorithms. scientists want you to take their word for it and not look at the historic numbers

Global Warming
These comments are some of the most pathetic I have ever seen. Just think for a second.
Global Warming
(1) Say we take steps on curbing global warming and we find out it was false. The worst that can happen is we find ourselfs in another depression and eventually pull ourselves out.
(2)Another option is that we do nothing and global warming does occur making Earth unlivable and a possible end to the human race.

With these two options it only makes sense for us to react to global warming and attempt to curb it. Why give up all hope for greed?

At some point in the future,
there is coming another Revolutionary War. The freedom loving people of this nation have patiently tolerated restrictions to our freedoms and ever increasing theft of our hard earned dollars, mostly by liberals, and benefitting mostly liberals. Liberals allow us no representation in any area of public life. Just shut up and keep paying so they can keep doing what feels good and attempting to dominate our lives. At some point enough will be enough. Our forefathers fought for much less than what we have to endure today.

JD's Handsome Son
Global Warming is alive and real. So why are you trying to politize it? Do you not believe facts? What would it take for you to believe global warming exists? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

You also mention restricted freedom. If Global warming gets any worse you can begin to kiss all your freedoms goodbye.

Oh, by the way I'm independent, thanks for polorizing America.

Save the earth!
Since animals exhale CO2, it makes the most sense to stop them from breathing. Club a baby seal and save the Earth!

Global warming is just the ecofreaks trying to gain control so they can stop others from doing what they want to do. Remember AlGore getting the special water release so he could white water when no one else could?

FREEDOM!

randomthoughts
animal CO2 is nothin compared to the METHANE they give off....

The UN said that all the animal farting produces more GREENHOUSE gasses than all the gas crap industries in the world... (this was where PETA told AL GORE he was contributing to GW by eating meat or supporting the meat industry, he's a fake in thier eyes)

So go ahead and club the seal because that animal is a farting time bomb...
the CO2 released by it is as much of a non-factor as all the CO2 released by MAN and industry...

The UN has spoken,,, believe them METHANE is KING

Bill brasky
Bill,,,

Lets try another thesis and see if you like it.

Don't be an athiest. WHY?

1. Say you take steps to believe in GOD and then find out that none of it is true. The worst that happened is that you believed in something that was not true. (not even a depression, this one's easy)

2. The other option is that GOD is real and you don't believe him, her, or IT. You then go to HELL. And considering the thoughts on most religions on this matter it could be considered worse than the EARTH getting HOT. (get it HELL and HOT, ha ha)

A bonus in not being an ATHIEST is that churches tend NOT to try and steal from your neighbors by claiming an emergency. Unlike GW SOCIALISTS who want everybody to pay for the FIX (and control your life in the process) NON-ATHIESM tends to view this action as a NON $ GRUBBING transaction.

EXP,,, your an athiest and going to HELL. Taking your $ and giving it to me is NOT your salvation.
On the other hand, AL GORE says your producing Greenhouse gasses that heat the planet (and we will eventually DIE). Give him your $ and his plan will save you.

PS,,, note that thier are many religious hucksters out there making the same crappy claims as AL GORE and do indeed want your $. They also feel THEY know how to get you saved (just like AL).

Me and you should consider them about the same.

You didn't give to that swindler on CABLE late last night did you? You know the one who told you to save yourself by giving to him, or his cause.

NO,,, well why give it to AL?

So there you have it BIll, it's just illogical to be an ATHIEST. (duh)

Emergencies
Does anybody recall the last crises that took SOCIALISM to save us..

I think the OZONE hole was a good one,, they really had us goin on that one. As the hole has decreased or disappeared or whatever they have moved on to the next crises.

The Global cooling they tried in the past was a non-factor because most of the population at that time knew it was crap. (too bad people today can't smell a scam like they used to)

After this scam they might not need any more,,, i mean 1 world GOV. UN taxation on the USA. AL GORE in charge, and everyone thinking him a SAVIOR to boot... and most important the loss of USA INDEPENDANCE

Yep,,, after they get thier way on this one they won't NEED any new scams. Our very lives and existence will be the SCAM.

Bill brasky
Sure we believe in facts. That is why we DONT believe in AGW. If you had been following the posts on TH for the past year you would have seen links to articles over and over again that have disproved every allegation made by the AGW crowd that tries to lay significant increases in global temperature on CO2 and man-made gasses.

The FACTS are that the AGW crowd is wrong, and in some cases, have been shown to be intentionally wrong. That, when combined with the attempt to use AGW to extort money, is called fraud and people who commit fraud belong in jail.

You say that if the AGW crowd is wrong, the worst thing that can happen is another depression, no big deal huh.

What arrogant stupidity! During the great depression millions of people died worldwide from starvation, disease, and other things directly attributable to the financial upheaval. In addition, the indirect effects are what gave us Hitler, Stalin, and WWII, which killed millions more.

All of this simply for the benefit of a few groups of people seeking to enrich themselves by extorting money from others and one group of eco-idiots who sole purpose is to cause the collapse of civilization.

Sure we believe in facts, and there is some. Here is a question I always pose to advocates of this scam how will you answer it.

Will you pay for all the cost personally when the cooling cycle is proved to be in place showing AGW was a fraud? And in addition, what is YOUR solution to AGW?

Well the next political hurdle has been
passed. A Senate panel has approved a "cap and trade" bill.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-12-06-voa5.cfm

The news article does not say which bill it was so I can not determine if it contains the "tax" provisions so near and dear to the Lamocrat's heart.

Of course this had the aid of a RINO who's offering for opposing the base is "China will not be able to hide behind our inaction". Who does he think he is fooling? These RINOs have shown a distain for the base and now instead of openly insulting us they treat us like the average Democrat voter....a village idiot.

I'm sorry Senator Warner, most of us did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. You need a better excuse for this K-Street special.

Conservatives...a call to "arms". We need to either clean house or form a new party. I pledge to do my part by voting against RINO Graham of SC.

All alarms are wrong
Clanging alarm bells have been disturbing the air for the past 30 years, and you could get whiplash stopping or starting things that some panic stricken misinterpreter of studies or statistics says will kill or save us.

Six months later they fade away with the Oat Bran or Omega 3 or Zinc or colonic irrigation or whatever stupid hysterics were dominating the air waves the last time. Someone regularly tries to find some reason why coffee will kill you; then they find that the studies were of five people who smoke while they drink coffee.

Global Warming is nonsense. And to the people who yowl that we ought to do something in case it is true, do you evacuate your house in case in might be on fire? Or do you wait until you actually see flames? Are you prepared for the response if you call the fire department and ask them to come and pour water on your house because you think it might some day burn down?

Vick & JD's Handsome Son
I'm still waiting for an answer. What would it take for you guys to believe polution has caused Global Warming? Vic seems to think Global Warming is a complete hoax, while JD's son thinks it exists but thinks man is not to blame.

I guess your only answer is to sit back and let it happen. Lets not react, lets not curb our polution, lets not set a good example for all the other countries to follow. Has it ever occured to you that China is holding out till we join the treaty?

Also, your views make you the minority. Most Americans are willing to change there lifestyles for the benefit of saving Earth, thank god! (I'm Catholic) Not sure what that whole atheism column was about from Vick.

All I'm saying is think for yourselves and quit reading your conservative blogs for just one week.

Hilarious stuff regarding OISM
"In reality, neither Robinson's paper nor OISM's petition drive had anything to do with the National Academy of Sciences, which first heard about the petition when its members began calling to ask if the NAS had taken a stand against the Kyoto treaty. Robinson was not even a climate scientist. He was a biochemist with no published research in the field of climatology, and his paper had never been subjected to peer review by anyone with training in the field. In fact, the paper had never been accepted for publication anywhere, let alone in the NAS Proceedings. It was self-published by Robinson, who did the typesetting himself on his own computer."

"The NAS issued an unusually blunt formal response to the petition drive. "The NAS Council would like to make it clear that this petition has nothing to do with the National Academy of Sciences and that the manuscript was not published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences or in any other peer-reviewed journal," it stated in a news release. "The petition does not reflect the conclusions of expert reports of the Academy." In fact, it pointed out, its own prior published study had shown that "even given the considerable uncertainties in our knowledge of the relevant phenomena, greenhouse warming poses a potential threat sufficient to merit prompt responses. Investment in mitigation measures acts as insurance protection against the great uncertainties and the possibility of dramatic surprises."

jd
"It's about restricting our freedoms." -- Like sending kids to war for oil, then making the US taxpayers pay TRILLIONS for an illegal occupation? How's Haliburton doing these days? Blackwater?

"Like you, they were liberal, open minded, well educated progressives that came under the spell of a mad man..." -- Were they really? I thought closed-minded war mongers killed innocent people, but nevermind with facts and history.

"... global cooling theory these same prophets had 30 years ago." Nope. There was an article that was not accepted by most all scientists that makes a great talking point for you conservative, closed-minded, less educated regressives.

"But we will resist attempts to control our lives purely for political reasons." -- But you are willing to cower under your bed because BushCheney said the bad Iraqi and Mexicans are out to get you.

Cons: Better to wet yourselves over here so you don;t have to over there.

If it would affect them
They don't really believe. If they truly believed the BS they are spewing out, they would have stayed home, had teleconferences, and saved on the fuel and all of the other goodies this is costing.

Bill Brasky
I assume by saying “Vick” you were addressing me since there is no Vick posting on here. You urge us to avoid conservative blogs and read other things. First you need to learn how to read because I have posted NOTHING remotely resembling an “atheist” column. I posted a link to a news article that said a Senate Panel had approved a cap and trade bill.

You ask us what would it take to believe this scam? Well the answer is real evidence. That’s right, REAL EVIDENCE that actually proves something and has not be falsified. So far all the U.N. panel has done is provide papers that show weak correlation between temperatures and CO2. Parts of this correlation were falsified and when you look at the actual data in a closer configuration they show that the temperature goes up BEFORE the CO2. In other words the CO2 is following Charles and Boyl’s law and coming out of solution as the ocean heats up.

In fact EVERY shred of evidence that the AGW people have presented has been shown to be false and in some cases knowingly false. Why don’t you do an internal search of TH and go back and read all of the posts with links to real scientists and not politicians. These scientists have exposed this scam for what it is. That’s right, it’s not a hoax. Calling it a hoax would imply that it is nothing more than a joke to elicit humor. When it involves a plan to extort money it comes out of the hoax category and becomes a scam.

cont..

pt 2

You tell us that there is nothing wrong with asking people change their lifestyle. Well I’ll agree with that totally. You and the other ecomaniacs can stand on soapboxes all day and extol the virtues of a eco-friendly lifestyle. That is what the 1st amendment is all about. I would hope that in the “speeches” the falsehoods, exaggerations, and myths would be omitted but that doesn’t really matter.

This however is NOT what the AGW crowd is all about. There are three general “solutions” being promoted by the AGW crowd. The U.N. solution is for the West, primarily the U.S. to send trillions of dollars to the 3rd world to “assist” them in developing clean energy technology. The U.S. politician solution comes in two categories. The first is the “cap and trade” swindle. This one really does noting to eliminate CO2 but it does create a new form of swindle where congress gets to determine winners and losers by setting CO2 limits for individual companies and industries. The winners would get to sell their excess CO2 allotments to the less politically connected. The other category is carbon taxes. Of course this is the most favored plan of the Lamocrats. Socialism at it’s best. You emit CO2 so we declare that a sin and we will tax it like demon alcohol. We can then take that money and spend it on socialism, with some set aside for a new federal bureaucracy of course…say about 80% for the new department which will employ Uncle Joe’s cousin.

If they truly believed
All of their hype, this meeting would be by teleconference instead of all of these people flying to a resort. How much will the rest of us be required to give up to make up for all of the "carbon footprint" created by this meeting?

BB writes
BB writes: "I'm still waiting for an answer. What would it take for you guys to believe polution has caused Global Warming?"

First off, your question requires admitting that there is global warming. If you contend that a temperature rise of 1 degree in that last 100 years is global warming - you must have a bb for a brain.

Will some please answer why Mars has warmed?

Man, I hate kool-aid drinkers.

No Mars correlation
You are correct. Kool-aid drinkers are the worst. They get ahold of some right-wing talking point and will not let go, regardless of the actual science (or lack of) behind it. They also think that if nobody answers their nonsense comparison point that they are correct and the scientists are wrong.

If you do not agree that the globe is warming, then you have a BB instead of a brain.

From National Geographic

"Temperatures on Mars have increased slightly over a 20-year period due to the action of Martian winds, scientists have found.

New research has shown that dusty tornadoes called dust devils and gusty winds have helped the surface of Mars become darker, allowing it to absorb more of the sun's rays.
...
Lori Fenton at the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California, and colleagues used a computer model to study the effect that winds have had on Mars's climate.

During the 1970s Mars experienced several large wind storms that stirred up bright, shiny dust particles and redistributed them around the planet, the team explained.

In the 1980s and 1990s smaller-scale processes like dust devils tidied up the planet, the researchers said, pushing the bright dust aside to expose the darker rocks below."

Hey, Brasky!
Try to keep up! How about answering Jakota's question? (Why is Mars warming?)

And it's not just Mars
The gas giants are getting warmer also.

No one here denies the planet is warming: the debate is about causal factors. The AGW proponents have used bogus data and depend on computer models that cannot possibly (yet) be remotely accurate.

Hey joe
Why would the answer to a non-correlating question be of value? Besides, most of already know the answer since it was widely published. By this I mean real publications by real scientists after they spent time getting some real answers and not speculating. I understand that were was some initial speculation and questions (we call this scientific questioning), but lets stick to the results to keep the deniers from zooming off course.

Example: My toaster is not working, evidently causing my kitchen to cool. Ergo the earth must also be cooling.

So answer me this: Why is my kitchen cooling, when the earth is warming? Huh? Huh?

JD's Handsome Son
Sorry, I now get it. I did not see the sarcasm in you earlier posts, but now it is obvious. Nobody really thinks the way your write, do they? Unless you are BillO, I was really had.

Thanks for the laugh.

What if?
I know it's a long shot, but what if we find out some time in the future, that global warming is not caused by the dreaded human? Were this to happen, it would mean that some useful idiots will have cost the U.S.A. trillions of dollars (A mear $50 Billion+ so far).

Will today's hand-wringers want to punish the U.N, Al Gore, our incompetent media, etc., or will they just move on to the next plan to screw the American Taxpayer?

If global warming turns out to be a natural phenomenon, it means that this people lied for profit - they were not misinformed - they lied. Everyone involved should be considered part of a huge confidence ring for creating this con in order to enrich their friends and themselves.

My opinion is that the punishment for perpetrating this hoax, if it is a hoax, should be substantial jail time as well as the confiscation of the total assets of any corporation or individual who participated in the lie.

We have to tell John Kerry, Al Gore and those like them that their license to steal has been revoked. I'm tired of paying for nothing. I'm going to want my money back.



Syler
Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

Simple, CHEAP Solution
Just inject finely divided sulfur into the upper atmosphere to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the surface. No socialism involved.

China
Ok,

We borrow hundreds of Billions of dollars from China to fund our voracious government as we lose millions of US jobs to China. So now the UN wants the US to subsidize the Chinese becaus they are a "developing" economy?

What great deal for the Chinese, we borrow money from them with interest and then give it to them as incentive to clean up.

If liberals want to "save the planet" go for it. Just don't hand me the bill for it.

Jakota, do you like apples?
Professor John Marburger, Bush’s chief science adviser.
Newt Gingrich
Pat Robertson
Rudy Giuliani
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Charlie Crist, Republican Governor of Florida.

What do the above people have in common? They're all prominent conservatives and they all believe in Global Warming.

How do you like them apples?

Typically, conservatives presume they should doubt global warming because it was a liberal theory in the beginning, and god forbid they prove a liberal right.

But, it's ok, we don't hold that against you and know that you'll eventually come around to understanding the facts.

Are you evangelical? Then there is a support group for you... http://www.christiansandclimate.org

I totally understand the oil & coal companies wanting to deny global warming. But, if the fear of global warming causes us to invent new ways to harness renewable energy and less dependent on foreign oil, then that's a good thing, right?

How about we take all the billions that we spend on subsidies for the oil industry and spend just 10% of that on renewable energy research? A big tax savings and renewable energy for the American people.

There is a mountain...
..of evidence against the AGW theory but not too many people have read it and most alarmists have never read any of the opposing view.

This is the 4th climate alarm since 1895 and Time reported on all of them. We will be warming until the next cooling cycle starts and that's why they are so deperate. They must, literally, make as much money as possible while the sun shines. And by the way Nov. has started out, they may already be too late. I wonder how they will spin it???

If you haven't read the opposing view's evidence then you are simply a biased person with an agenda and your opinion has no worth.

Redefining Science
Having studied science (BS Physics Ohio State 1970), I have come to marvel how computers are now being used to undermine the fundamental principals of the scientific process. In my studies, I recall the emphasis was on proving cause and effect. Now we can plug variables into a computer model that, by it's very nature must contain unproven assumptions, and tweek the model until we get what we want. Newton must be turning over in his grave!

With the AGW movement, cause and effect are freely intetwined with any minor correlation being touted as new proof that humans are responsible for GW. I have been unable to find a single AGW Scientific paper that tries to prove that CO2 is causing GW using traditional scientific methods...Today's science is about "validating" assumptions with antedotal evidence like melting icebergs in the artic and suspect surface temperature changes over the past 30 years.

If I could find one valid argument showing that Man made CO2 does in fact cause warming, I'll be glad to sign on with the AGW movement. Until then, I will be happy to be labled a 'denier'

bill brasky
I wrote the athiest piece,,,

It was in response to your comments on how being in the GW camp is "safe".

This lame line of thinking would also FORCE all ATHIESTS to become NON-ATHIESTS... (maybe you got a point)

How?
How anybody can still believe man-made GW when the same UN report that said we are doin it. Also said animals METHANE or Farting produces more pollution than MAN does???

It's not Man-made... it's animal-made.

So take it out on the animals and charge the wildlife a TAX for living.

See how fun these scams are... this stuff is better than AMWAY.

How can I backtrack and get in on the GROUND LEVEL?

If I was AL GORE and in the GROUND LEVEL of this scam then I sure as heck would be pitchin it and believin for sure...

You hear that, all you LIBTARDS. Get me in on some of the ACTION and I'll BELIEVE... I can be bought...
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