Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, January 14, 2008
Craig Shirley :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's Freedom, Stupid
by Craig Shirley
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


On Election Day in 1978, Republican State Senator John Briggs of California surveyed the wreckage of his political career. Briggs was the sponsor of Proposition 6, a ban on homosexuals teaching in the Golden State's public school system. Prop. 6 had been soundly defeated.

Although early polling showed widespread support for the Briggs proposal, this support eroded over the summer and fall of 1978, partially because of the unexpected – unexpected by Briggs, anyway – opposition from former California Governor Ronald Reagan.

A self-described “libertarian-conservative,” Reagan found the proposal offensive. He viewed it as a violation of privacy, and believed it could subject law-abiding teachers to blackmail. After initially sidestepping the issue, Reagan ultimately spoke out forcefully against Proposition 6. Briggs, who had hoped to ride the amendment to the California governorship, was asked by reporters who was to blame for its ignominious defeat, and he simply replied: “Ronald Reagan.”

At the time, Reagan was preparing for his third try for the GOP presidential nomination. Success in the 1980 Republican primaries entailed staving off incursions from George H. W. Bush, John Connally and Bob Dole, all of whom courted the support of the emerging Christian Right This newly powerful faction backed the Briggs Amendment, but Reagan did not waver.

No one will ever know for sure, but given his principles and intellectual courage, one could imagine why Reagan might also have found fault with the “Marriage Amendment” to the Constitution supported by some Republicans including George W. Bush.

Reagan saw the Constitution as a brilliant document because it does not outline what the citizenry cannot do; rather it stipulates what government cannot do. It is a mechanical document of negative governance. The Marriage Amendment runs contrary to the principles of the Constitution and is offensive both intellectually and historically, like the silly proposal to ban flag burning.

The issue is moot until the Supreme Court takes up the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which preserves federalism in marriage. The simple solution to prevent gay marriages in America is for Congress to regulate the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, so that no appeal of the DOMA could be heard. DOMA was passed by the Congress and signed by Bill Clinton for the express purpose of allowing the states to regulate marriage. But this solution is less attractive politically to those who wish to fire up the Christian troops through a brawl over amending the Constitution.

True conservatives believe deeply in the rights and privacy of all citizens. We scratch our heads when we see a political party so out of whack that it calls for overturning Roe and sending it back to the states for adjudication, but wonder why those very same states are not capable of deciding their own marriage laws. The contradiction defies logic. In the 1950’s, conservatives Frank Meyer and L. Brent Bozell II gave a gift to the floundering GOP: a rationale for governing. These two brilliant theoreticians devised the “fusionism” theory which brought together the economic right and the social right, which on face seemed in conflict with each other.

A minimalist governing philosophy, they argued, could unite the two factions for too much government threatens both the business classes, with over-regulation and over-taxation, and the social right with “nosey” policies that undermine the authority of the family, the local schools and the church. Along with fervent anti-communism, this gave the GOP its raison d’être and served the GOP quite well, until recently.

The modern GOP and their enablers on K Street have made a conscious decision to abandon the Buckley-Goldwater-Reagan-fusionist argument and remake the GOP as the party of big government. They opened Pandora’s Box and out flew largess and patronage, subsidies, corruption, and earmarks. Out the window went the hard work of millions of dedicated conservatives.

For fifty years, the Religious Right understood its compact with the Economic Right and they were content to slug it out with liberalism in the states and localities. But when the Bush Republicans came to town, religious conservatives, under the siren song of “compassion,” embraced federal intervention in everything from education to the Terry Schiavo affair, from “Faith-Based Initiatives” to the federal Marriage Amendment. The Bush crowd promised the “easy fix” of top-down government to these religiously-motivated voters.

Meanwhile, many economic conservatives, flush with the possibilities presented by congressional majorities and a Republican in the White House, forgot their libertarian roots. They too heard the tune of the temptress, this one the melody of money, access, and the baubles of power. Today, they come to Washington looking for a handout instead of insisting on being left alone. We are now witnessing the sorry spectacle of Washington bailing our banks and mortgage holders for engaging in bad faith agreements. Of course, this is all understandable when a Republican president says, “When people hurt, government must move.” Can there be a Cabinet-level department of Anxiety Counseling far behind?

The GOP no longer recognizes the meaning of the term “public servant” or abides by the Jeffersonian notion that power flows upwards from the people to the government, not the other way around.

Several years ago at a Board meeting of the American Conservative Union, an official from the White House asked to present the Administration’s plan on immigration. At the conclusion of the Bush aide’s presentation, someone asked the question: “Why did the President denounce the Minutemen as “vigilantes?” The aide’s reply was both instructive and disappointing. He simply said, “Because they weren’t authorized.” His answer told us all that conservatives need to know about the modern GOP.

Today’s Republicans are really reconstructed Tories, defending the status quo from on-high on the firm belief that power flows downward. True American conservatives have always believed that power flows up from the people and the status quo must always be challenged. They believed individual Americans rule their government, the government does not rule the people. The Constitution is a check on government, not the people.

Ronald Reagan never would have called the Minutemen “vigilantes.” Reagan, the great conservative populist, would have considered the Minutemen no different than a volunteer firefighter or those who make citizen’s arrests.

Karl Rove saw Bush as the 21st Century’s William McKinley and himself as Mark Hanna. Hanna, McKinley’s political operative, married the GOP and corporate America into a governing behemoth, long before FDR’s Harry Hopkins coined the phrase, ‘tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect.” Rove, Tom Delay and others quite clearly wanted to do the same with the 21st Century Republican Party.

The GOP’s new reason to be has led former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee to proclaim that if elected president, he would ban smoking in the United States. Huckabee, like many in the GOP, wants to remake the GOP as the “Mommycrat” party. The remaining Reagan conservatives in the party want neither the “Big Socialist Sisterism” of Hillary Clinton nor the “Big Christian Brotherism” of Huckabee. They want Republican leaders to once and for all stop pandering and recognize the proper and limited role of American government. The GOP must take their fingers off the throats of their fellow Americans and stop telling us how much they care.

In 1980, a reporter asked Ronald Reagan for his view of government. He simply and elegantly replied that the role of government was to protect us from each other and not to protect us from ourselves. No Reaganite – no real conservative -- would even think of banning smoking in America. The GOP is no longer the party of expanding freedom but increasing security. From Lincoln to Teddy Roosevelt to Reagan, all understood that the expansion of freedom was what the GOP should stand for and this is what would make it great and successful. And that it would only be successful by challenging the status quo through a framework of freedom, rather than defending it through a framework of arrogance and corrupt power.

The French Revolution ended in what was called the “Thermidor” as the revolution collapsed amidst betrayal, corruption and hubris. So too the modern GOP may be facing its own demise, although it will probably come with a whimper—not with show trials and beheadings.

Some would say more’s the pity.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Craig Shirley is the president of Shirley & Banister Public Affairs and the author of a history of the 1976 campaign, Reagan's Revolution: The Untold Story of the Campaign That Started it All. He is now writing a book about the 1980 campaign, Rendezvous with Destiny.

Be the first to read Craig Shirley's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

This is a great article
This is a wonderful article. It explains what a lot of people have been saying here and elsewhere for quite some time. But this article approaches it from a different direction with great examples.


One of the many things that stood out to me was this sentence:

"...many economic conservatives, flush with the possibilities presented by congressional majorities and a Republican in the White House, forgot their libertarian roots."

That quote is frustratingly true. I would also add that the conservatives of today frown upon most libertarian ideology. And it's been going on for a long time, not just recently.

It's sad, but true.

And this is why Ron Paul
And this is why Ron Paul is viewed as some alien from another dimension in today's Republican Party.
His views are essentially Goldwater in today's context.

Reagan's biggest mistake was giving in to the pressure to make Bush his VP. That set in motion a chain of events that is killing the conservative movement in the US, and will ultimately cause us to be a 2nd world nation (once the bankruptcy hits).


Amen!
Great piece.

Superb and forceful article
Every highschooler, and nowadays college students, should be required to read this article.

*Not* that they should be forced to agree with it, but they should be exposed to these ideas, which they undoubtedly are not. Especially in such a concise, clear and forceful way.

I agree entirely...almost
My only quibble is with comments on the marriage amendment. I have no problem with the States, and only the States, defining marriage, but doesn't the Constitution protect the contracts and regulations of one state from being overturned or invalidated by another? (I'm no constitutional scholar...) Hence, if I get married to my gay lover in Hawaii, doesn't Utah have to recognize us as a married couple? I'm concerned that this is the way it would play in the courts, anyway. I'd prefer not to have federal intervention (or really any governmental intervention) in this issue (though that horse has left the barn a long time ago), but I fear that the result of gay marriage in any state is de facto gay marriage in all states.

Thank you, Mr. Shirley

You know what is the worst part of it? I spent my best years getting away first from socialism, then from Europe.

Only to get it here in 20-30 years when I'll be too old to start over again somewhere else.

If you asked people whether they would throw the salt out with garbage if they decided it's bad, most would say no. Leaving it at home gives you a CHOICE, just in case you don't like life without salt.

When US becomes just another Europe, are we really gonna like it? And if not, will we have any decent and different choice to move elsewhere? Because, believe me, once it happens, there's no way of going back. Even if some of you guys are ready to take guns, the majority will be against you. Together with BIG government, of course. Don't lie to yourselves, the best way to avoid it is ... to avoid it.

Well, you identified the problem ...
as well as anyone I've read. The idea of small-government Reagan/Goldwater "conservatism" lost in a rout. If you deny this, you are deaf and blind. Today, "change" equals more government. Goverment leaders exist to say "Yes" to whatever the people want to solve some bogus or highly-exagerated problem or crisis.

Ron Paul, the closest to Reagan and Goldwater on most issues they cared about, is dismissed, ignored, ridiculed by the majority of Republicans. "Our" ideas of liberty and personal responsibility and that "government is the problem" not the solution are now accepted as "kooky" or "flaky." Unbelievable and so sad.

I think Paul is the best solution right now. Even if he doesn't win, a much better than expected showing will keep the ideas of Constitutional government on life support until the next Reagan can pick them up and run them in for a touchdown - in the process saving the future of the country (... that is, if it's not too late).

All the other candidates have some fine qualities and are impressive in many ways, but I really believe none of them are serious about making major reductions to the size - and role - of the federal government.

They are all most likely "compassionate conservatives" who lack the courage or core priinciples to actually "downsize" Washington, D.C. A vote for them, I've decided, is a vote for the status quo.

Thanks for your column. I hope it makes a difference.




fractured conservatives
The Reagan conservative coalition is fractured because the economic and libertarians never support a social conservative for office. Reagan invited social conservatives to the table but whenever one runs for office, the other wings find some excuse to run a hide. Without the social conservatives there isn't a conservative ruling majority.

IF the Constitution was enforced properly, there would be no need for DOMA. Recent decisions indicate that the Constitution will not be enforced properly so it must be amended to fix the problems.

Government has an one civic interest in marriage: the care of widows and children. The best indicator of household economic health is a stable marriage. Let not marriage fail because of some whacked notion of freedom. Freedom relies on the diligent exercise of responsibility.

Mr. Shirley
You are missing the elephant in the living room. The point is for some of these religious people it isn’t a case of wanting smaller government. It is case of changing what the government controls. They wish for the government to make abortion illegal and to forbid gay marriage at all.

Most of us would like to see Roe overturned on legal grounds as it is bad law. Return control of abortion to the States and allow the State legislatures to decide what is appropriate. As for gay marriage the problem here is the “full faith” clause of the Constitution. All States are required to recognize the laws of other States. This started with the MA courts recognizing gay marriage, which in effect meant that all of the other States were then compelled to recognize gay marriages that were performed in MA. This is also missing the big picture and an amendment would simply address the symptoms instead of the actual problem.

The actual problem is that the State (government) has become actively involved in marriage. Being married effects a lot of different things, which can have benefits in some cases and drawbacks in others. In point of fact, marriage should be a function of the church. It should confer no benefits and no penalties from the government. If we were to eliminate all of this from the government this entire issue would go away.

But then...what?
"The GOP no longer recognizes the meaning of the term “public servant” or abides by the Jeffersonian notion that power flows upwards from the people to the government, not the other way around."

Though this is correct, there are two critical questions yet to be answered:

1. What powers, both of kind and of degree, may LEGITIMATELY AND MORALLY flow upward from the people to government?

2. Given the degeneration of the GOP, where can freedom-minded Americans possibly turn? Is the Republican Party beyond salvage, such that only a third party will serve us, or is there some path we could take to restore it to sound principles?

Hallelujah!
Very fine article, sir!

For the record, I am very much FOR same-sex marriage as well as abortion rights, which puts me at odds with many here. If a few states choose to be benighted, it is their right to do so, despite what I think is proper.

There is an issue, of course, raised by other posters: The full faith and credit clause. But the solution to that was ably identified by Vic when he wrote: " In point of fact, marriage should be a function of the church. It should confer no benefits and no penalties from the government. If we were to eliminate all of this from the government this entire issue would go away. "

Quite so.

Now the question is what to do about it. The only candidate who has a shred of credibility in these issues is Ron Paul, and he won't be the nominee. More of the same, I'm afraid.

Ron Paul Or Ronald Reagan?
Ron Paul: Real Conservatives Don’t Start Wars, They End Them

HP-Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) recently gained fame for breaking one-day online donation records, but he’s still considered an underdog by many because of his single-digit polling and arguably radical views on a variety of issues. For one thing, he supports an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, a position that seems more at home with the Democrats these days. So why is he up there, debate after debate, standing out from the likes of Huckabee and Romney and McCain? Why isn’t he trying to fit in if he wants to win the primary? Is he even a Republican?

He told me he is–just not the same kind as the rest of them.

“I think their definitions are different,” he said. “Today, the Party has been taken over by a group called neoconservatives, and I don’t believe they’re really conservative. I think they’re really liberal in the modern sense of the word–they’re big spenders, they believe in entitlements, they believe in military

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-paul-or-ronald -reagan


Some good points but . . .
How can one make the connectioin of freedom and gay marriage. Opposing a ban on gay teachers is not even the same discussion as gay marriage in terms of privacy and freedom.

A gay teacher ban demands we invade privacy, determine sexuality, then act on the evidence.

Gay marriage demands that a 2 millenium old sacrement/institution of marriage be redefined to meet the political whims of a group of gays. This group doesn't desire privacy, rather they demand they be defined in terms of their sexual activity.

Marriage is marriage. It has been defined for ages. One man, one woman. If gays want to start their own institution - go for it. (Maybe "Gayrriage) The family unit defined by marriage has earned significant social and legal recognition gradually through centuries of demonstrating beneficial effects on society. Gay relationships have earned no such thing - they simply demand it - because they're gay.


@crescen7
"Marriage is marriage. It has been defined for ages."

And so was slavery.

Wish I could be around to see the xians of the late 21stC claim the credit for extending marriage to all our citizens.



John Konor or HalD?
Dude, can't you post without sending a link to another site with you as the primary poster there?

WOW
I am impressed by the comments. Well done. Perhaps the real answer is civil contracts for all who want them and put marriage back in the churches where it belongs. Bush called marriage a "sacrament", if so it has no place in government and law

USMC (Ret)
FromTheTop also USMC (Ret). If you're addressing Hal Donahue...he is oxymoronic.

USMC (Ret)
"John Konor or HalD?
Dude, can't you post without sending a link to another site with you as the primary poster there? "

????????huh

No doubt at all
Commander Lightweight writes: "No doubt, dude!"

Well, you know how they do it.

Claim their book is inerrant, flat-out contradictions and all; claim 'tradition' (as laid out by said book written by the same misogynistic, homophobic, genocidal racists who benefit from enforcing said tradition) demands the continuation of some practice; claim some parts of the book do _not_ support the practice; change practice explicitly (like the LDSers and blacks, Coca Cola etc), or better yet, claim that--although we believe it *all*--the newer stuff supersedes the old stuff (and, in a lovely anti-Semitic touch, the old nasty stuff only applies to Jews); claim it's metaphorical (see bullet 1); and then, when justice is finally done, claim it was their doing!

Just look at the gyrations (No) Talent Scout goes though to claim the Founders were xians!

losts of interesting words
But.....if your concept leads to gay marriage
being accepted (legally) by every state! you know what you can do with all your nice words!
Freedom is precious...but everything should and normally does have it's limits! you have the freedom to fold your fist..but it better stop short of my body! you got that!? either you accept gay marriage...or you dont..knock off all the cleverly written articles....!americans have the right to deny gay marriage if they so choose
..amendment or what ever! you talk about freedom..i repeat, we have the right to choose what ever we want.if the majority chooses to fight gay marriage..then so be it! we have the freedom to destroy our selves or exalt ourselves!and same sex marriage is self destruction in my opinion...! and lets quit exalting reagan to god hood! i liked the man..have several books about him..but !@#$$%%& to h**l he did some things that so-called true conservatives would not like! ohhh we look the other way..when it comes to reagan! you wasted a lot of words to say..well
gay marriage...soo what! garbage!all you freedom loving folks can write nasty things back to me if you choose....and i will just smile so go ahead and waste your time! elvis

Other points to consider
This is a great column that gets to the heart of the matter, that we are free because our Constitution limits the government, not the people. However, pure libertarianism is in reality anarchy. We might all get along with our neighbors quite well, but not always. Hence there is a need for basic laws.

The old argument is, does the Constitution support total personal liberty or the majority? Historically, local control was the choice of the founders; so a local community, via the majority, can prevent certain things unless the right was granted specifically in the Constitution. Nationally, the same principle applies, but we need to be careful of how we apply it. Of course, the founding fathers hoped that the people would be wise, thoughtful, and moral, but it could not be guaranteed.

It is often said that our Constitution is not a suicide pact! True, but it is also not a straight jacket! The opportunity to decide an issue via a Constituional Amendment was therefore included in the document.

If a majority of the congress and the states (the people) want to do something, they are perfectly free to do so. It is power and choice flowing up from the people and incorportaed into the Constitution. The courts have no authority to infer rights, only the people can grant them via the amendment process.

Other points, Part II
This applies to gay marriage or any other issue. The nation can say no if there is enough support to amend the Constitution. That is the process for the people to decide the nature and character of any local community and the country.

Unfortunately, neither the Democrats or the Republicans have any solid grounding in the Constitution. Their only concern is to remain in power, and because WE CHOSE TO BE A PURE DEMOCRACY RATHER THAN A REPUBLIC, we are now saddled with corrupt political elites who will offer anything to get votes. The Constitution doesn't matter too much anymore, it is only used as a prop for TV sound bites. Most of our people probably haven't even read it.

To count on the GOP to restore the Constitution to its rightful place as the primary definition of how we govern ourselves is foolish. In fact, neither party has any incentive to do so because the game is about power, not common sense solutions to the problems we face.

Our only hope is a President committed to the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people. We will not get that if we fall for the DEM/GOP/MSM propaganda that says only "they" have the wisdom, knowledge, and experience to govern. We must not once again vote the lesser of two evils, it will be a disaster for this great nation, and another elite as President may be the final nail in the coffin of our freedom.

If you would like to see more of how the elites have rigged the election process to assure themselves continued power, I urge you to visit my website, joeolivaforpresident.org. Check it out, why not? The elites have stolen our inheritance, but it can still be reclaimed if we have the faith and guts to do it! Thanks, Joe

Ron Paul
Like his domestic views. Foreign policies, though, are unrealistic

Elvis
Your logic is illogical:

"Freedom is precious...but everything should and normally does have it's limits! you have the freedom to fold your fist..but it better stop short of my body! you got that!?"

This makes sense, people can do whatever that
doesn't hurt someone else. Agreed.

This doesn't agree with the above quote:

"either you accept gay marriage...or you dont..knock off all the cleverly written articles....!americans have the right to deny gay marriage if they so choose"

According to this you are being physically hurt
by gay marriage. Please explain.

According to the logic of the second part of
your quote then Americans can also have the right
to deny people from making a fist.

gay marriage and opposite sex marriage
Same position on both.

Get the government out of it.

There is no need for government to recognize gay
marriage and there is also no need for government
to recognize opposite sex marriage.

This is a First
This is a First time that the violation of Conservative Core Beliefs by the GOP has been well established and defined. Excellent job, I have always had issues with George Bush and what the Misguided GOP has become, however, as bad as what they have become, the Demonrats are even WORSE. Look into the Actions of this Democratic Controlled Congress into 2007 and review exactly what the Democratic Candidates are saying and what all of that actually relates is full blown Socialism, which has failed every time and place Socialism has raised it's ugly head.

Bullseye
Your comments reflect what a great deal of what my associates and I feel. Conservatism isn't dead, we merely have no candidate to represent us. We have no representative, and haven't for at least 8 years, that isn't looking to expand the federal intrusion (and thus servitude to taxation)into our lives.

I am offended that anyone of them would insinuate they are "conservative" with the best interests of the "people" in mind.

I find little difference between Democrat and Republican plateforms when it comes to real substance. I do find differences in their means to acheive federal intrusion, but subserviance to government, regardless of which party imposes it, is still intrustion. When will someone stand out as a flat tax, small government, states rights, limited government federalist candidate?

I do admit though, it is interesting to watch the Republican party going down in flames. Albeit slowly. Someday I will get to explain that to my daughter. She's only six, so by the time she will be old enough to understand all this, it will be gone and I will be able to tell her about "the good old days" when Republicans and Democrats....


Liberty slipping away
Great column, clear about the core issue (liberty), in spite of spending too much time on a side issue (gay marriage).

Thanks for reminding us what the role of good government is: protection of the people from government and other inevitable forces of coercion.

I like the idea of marriage being the function of the church, but what about the people who reject churches? Perhaps government could regulate contracts between people who form some sort of union for purposes of financial security and rights to speak for each other in times of illness, etc.

Great comment, Igor. We're running out of places where we can live in liberty.


again
Where was this article and articles like it 6 months ago? 3 months ago? 3 weeks ago even?

It might have been interesting to see a conservative website allow views like this to beexpressed at a time they might have made a difference in the debacle that is the primaries, to inspire (god forbid) the conservative gulag to consider ideas such as these and draw their own conclusions, then acting as individuals cast a ballot as a meaningful message instead of a lost opportunity.

And yes, I'm talking about Ron Paul. I'm not optimistic enough to think he could have won, but rest assured that if you all don't open up your eyes, this party is over.

Good riddance.

Galt's Gultch anyone?

Yes Craig, we are stupid!
I have been a conservative most of my life (60+ years of age now). Reagan was Governor f my state when I graduated college, and I was still living in California when he was elected president.
As a registered Republican I have been severely disappointed with our system of government these past 25 years. In many ways it is difficult to know if many of our congressional representatives are Democrat or Republican. The two parties are now so polarized, for them to jointly accomplish ANYTHING worthwhile is next to impossible.
My best friend is a yellow dog Democrat (if a yellow dog was running for office as a Dem it would get the vote), yet we agree on about 80-90% of important issues.
The biggest problem I have with him is he actually believes that W. is stupid, a liar, blah, blah, blah. If the party line claims it, he believes it.
There is no question the GOP is no longer a traditionally conservative party. Today, conservatives are in a war with progressive secularists and we are losing. Political Correctness has progressed to the point of absolute insanity! I do not see things getting any better, certainly not during the 2008 presidential election period.

Tolerance isn't Endorsement
There is a huge difference between tolerance, and endorsement and celebration. The left wants to use the institutions of government, schools, courts, legislative bodies, and government regulation of business to promote and encourage abortions, gay marriage and alternative lifestyles as good things for society. This isn't freedom it's at best government endorsement of the left wing worldview, at worst it's government coercion. Leaving someone alone to do what they want at home or say what they want in the public square is hugely different than government compelled virtousity. Once that occurs, social conservatives have every right and duty to stand up and say which intstitutions should and should not be validated and protected by government. You can't pray in school, but schools can give birth control and girls can get abortions without parental consent. The beliefs and practices of the left can be promoted in school, in rental law, in mandatory diversity training in business but present the alternate (and still majority) view and you are shown the door and proclaimed a bigot. That's not freedom it's capitulation!

Brilliant!
Thank you for writing this article. It is nice to hear a fellow Conservative willing to criticize the Republican party instead of mindlessly going along with the party line...
I agree with everything you said. And I hope this column is read far and wide.
Wake up, America!

Liberty and Civility
I'd love to see the government as far removed from this concept of "civil marriage" as possible.

Unfortunately, the State may have an interest in some degree of Social Engineering here. Children with a married mother and a father tend to be a statistically more law-abiding and productive per capita than other groups. Moreover, practices like bigamy and incest present major problems in addressing the rights of minor children. Child custody from divorce is messy enough in this country when it deals with just two parties.

Contractual monogamy allows for civil action against adultery, and that's something that a healthy society needs.

If the government is involved in these sorts of social issues, then the government has to determine exactly which unions are subject to government interest. Fertile unions are the typical concern. Homosexual unions are, by definition, infertile unions. Heterosexual unions can only be deemed infertile by intruding on a couple's privacy.

So Homosexual Unions serve no State interest and the participants in such can not Constitutionally receive any benefit not conferred upon two random business partners, a brother-and-sister, or two elderly room-mates.

Heterosexual Unions, on the other hand, ~ may ~ be argued to be subject to State interest.

You have it wrong, commander lightweight
"The State is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around."

In the coming christofascist state, the state exists to serve the Looooord and we citizens exist to serve the state. Conformity to the norms is a _requirement_.

Haven't you been reading what the conservatives say?

lightweight
Gee, using that (il)logic, since murders are citizens, a the purpose of the state is to serve its citizens, then the state should find potential targets for these citizens.

Too many libertarians confuse Freedom with License. In a civic society, even individual freedoms are exercised with civic responsibility. As an example, the Right to Bear arms does not include the license to shoot them wherever and whenever the gun owner chooses.

Failure to understand the Constitution
Look up the term "legitimate state interest" some time, folks. Our Constitutional system - and especially the 14th Amendment - require a legitimate state interest to be proven for the state to grant privilege to or abridge the freedoms of any individual or group. If congressmen, executives, or judges want to exert governmental power they must meet a burden of proof of "legitimate state interest."

No, we're not talking about "state interest" in the sense of "interest to those running the state," but rather interest of the state as the Body Public.

You can't vote a law into place that hands out $1,000 to everyone names Bob just because you like the name Bob. There is no "legitimate state interest" in showing favor to people named Bob over people named Matthew, Wu, or Ali. Having such a name provides no significant benefit to the Public.

Yes, when an individual or group is given monies or privileges by the State the State must prove a "legitimate state interest," that separates the recipient from the non-recipients.

This is how the government justifies things like tax-credits for Energy Star appliances and why a town normally needs to hand out fishing permits on a first-come, first-served basis.

re: I see
Commander Lightweight wrote:
'So what you are actually talking about is "public interest".'

The proper term used to discuss the Constitutional matter is "legitimate state interest." The two are not perfectly interchangeable.

Matters of "public interest" may or may not be "legitimate state interests." All "legitimate state interests," under our Constitutional system MUST be "public interests," though.

Not every "public interest," is supposed to be provided for or regulated by the state - for that is the fundamental premise of Totalitarianism.

Just curious / open question


How did everyone find this article? It wasn't listed on the TH homepage. I found it by clicking on a link in the right-hand margin while reading another article that *was* on the TH homepage... I thought ALL articles, at the time of release/publication, were placed on the homepage.

MellorSJ2 - Part 1 of 4


MellorSJ2: “Claim their book is inerrant,”


The claim is that the underlying original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts are the inspired and inerrant Word of God. The translators were not inspired. Each of the various translations has errors of one kind or another. These errors can be (and have been) examined and understood (e.g., “Easter” is in the KJV, but all other translations correctly use the word “Passover” in Acts 12:4).


The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew OT, completed sometime in the 1st century BC. This translation was acceptable to Jesus and the Apostles (many scholars have determined they quoted from it), so a good translation ought to be acceptable to us.



~~~



MellorSJ2: “flat-out contradictions and all”


Stephen, you make this claim frequently, but I wonder if you are honest enough to be changed by the truth if you find it? I am not aware of a single, credibly sustainable contradiction in doctrine from Genesis to Revelation. If there was one, it would be such an enormous discovery that people like you would shout it from rooftops the world over. CNN would dedicate an entire year of programming, 24 hours a day, to such a discovery.


Even the so-called “minor” contradictions are not really contradictions at all, but either intentionally misrepresented text and twisting of the words, or honest misunderstandings which can be logically explained and understood, if you care to investigate the truth. I don’t claim to know the answer to every possible “contradiction” you might point out, but every one I have investigated has been resolvable.


More importantly, if any were NOT resolvable, people who have dedicated their careers to studying and/or criticizing Scripture would certainly publish them, and they would be able to credibly withstand peer review. If you have any so-called “contradictions” like that, as opposed to those listed by anti-Christian websites, I’d like to see some.


MellorSJ2 - Part 2 of 4


MellorSJ2: “claim 'tradition' (as laid out by said book written by the same misogynistic, homophobic, genocidal racists who benefit from enforcing said tradition) demands the continuation of some practice;”


Any “tradition” that’s not written in God’s Word is not something any Christian need follow, and probably shouldn’t; extra-Biblical traditions almost always lead to contradictions of Scripture, given enough time.


Regardless of your opinion of the character of the men who wrote down the words, the Author was God, and if it was determined by God that we should follow a particular “practice”, then follow it we will, unless we can show in Scripture where the duration of the practice was limited by Him, or until He returns and tells us to stop.



~~~



MellorSJ2: “claim some parts of the book do _not_ support the practice;”


If you don’t want to understand Scriptural Authority and how it is determined, then rest assured, you won’t. From our many discussions here on TH, I know you are an intelligent person, and so if you want to understand, I am certain you can. That’s up to you.


God’s Word does not contradict itself. If it is claimed that a “practice” is supported in one part of the Bible but that “practice” is ended in another, we can be sure that one of two things has happened:


Either someone has misunderstood (or twisted) the Scripture, and with a little effort we can understand and unravel the mistake;

Or

It is a “practice” that was instituted by God for a specific purpose, and when that purpose had been served, HE caused, Authorized or commanded the “practice” to come to an end, and “it is written” so we can be sure, to resolve any dispute.


You like to pretend it’s a “make it up as you go along” kind of thing, and unfortunately there will always be plenty of examples to give you ammunition to do so, but you will be shaken to your core if you ever spend the time to investigate how solid God’s Word really is.


MellorSJ2 - Part 3 of 4


MellorSJ2 writes: “change practice explicitly (like the LDSers and blacks, Coca Cola etc),”

I don’t know what the reference to “Coca-Cola” means.


You can’t lay blame for people changing practices that were never given by God in the first place at God’s feet; we need to lay that blame where it belongs - with man.


You cite the LDS, and I agree, but what became called the Roman Catholic Church has done the same thing for nearly eighteen centuries. They won’t like it that I say that, but it’s not personal, I just want the truth. I’m happy to discuss the ‘short list’ of 66 practices/doctrines of the RCC going back to 200AD, since before it was even called the RCC, and none of them can be reconciled or harmonized with God’s Word in the Bible.


The Protestant denominational churches each have practices that cannot be reconciled or harmonized with God’s Word too, I’m not singling out Roman Catholics or Mormons. All of the division that gives people like yourself so much ammunition against Christianity is the result of men, nearly always with good intentions, choosing to do things which cannot and will never be reconciled with God’s Word.


An un-Scriptural practice may be small at first, it almost always is, otherwise there would be loud protest against it. But if it starts small, error gains a foothold. After a time, the error becomes established “tradition”. Once error is established and accepted, it then (naturally) becomes the basis for *new* doctrine. And on it goes. Extrapolate that process over 200 years, over 500 years, or over nearly 1,800 years, and you will see just how far away men can get from the truth of God’s Word.


All because they once allowed a small error to become a part of their practices and beliefs.


MellorSJ2 - Part 4 of 4


MellorSJ2: “or better yet, claim that--although we believe it *all*--the newer stuff supersedes the old stuff (and, in a lovely anti-Semitic touch, the old nasty stuff only applies to Jews);”


That’s not a “lovely anti-Semitic touch”, and I know you know better. That’s the truth according to the Jews themselves. Why don’t you ask them? Ask a Jew if the Law of Moses applies to all mankind, or if it was only given to Israel?


Or ask Malachi:

“Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.” (Malachi 4:4, KJV)



Better yet, let Moses tell you himself:

"And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. [2] The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [3] The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day." (Deuteronomy 5:1-3)


And regarding “newer stuff supersedes the old stuff”, the Old Testament promised a New Testament (Jeremiah 31:31). God spoke through the prophet Isaiah of the days to come when the new law would go forth from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:2-4). In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul, inspired by God, stated that the law of Moses had been given until the seed, which is Christ Jesus, had come (Galatians 3:19-27).


It is NOT “anti-Semitic” to declare the truth that the Law of Moses was given to the Jews only. They were chosen by God, there’s nothing “anti” about that… what higher honor could there be? The Law of Moses had a purpose, and it was fulfilled, according God’s plan. And there is no “old nasty stuff” in the OT; it is ALL God’s Word that you are talking about.


Your decision not to understand it does not make it “nasty stuff”. It just makes you ignorant of the truth, but you can change that, and I hope you will.

Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.