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Thursday, June 18, 2009
Cliff May :: Townhall.com Columnist
How to Crush Debate
by Cliff May
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Following the shootings of a Kansas abortion doctor and a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, two prominent New York Times columnists, Paul Krugman and Frank Rich, spoke out forcefully against those in the media who spout lies and, possibly, incite violence.

There are "lunatics" out there, Krugman wrote, and "media organizations wind up such people at their, and our, peril." Rich warned of "toxic rhetoric" and "media demagogues," fueling a rage that "could spiral out of control."

So imagine my shock to see on The New Times website an item saying: "Cliff May argued that torture is justified against Muslims because they're Muslim."

What does that even mean? That I think innocent Muslims should have their fingernails pulled out? There was not a quote or fact to back up this inflammatory allegation against me. There were no links to articles I've written or television and radio shows on which I've appeared. Why would the Times attribute to me such an outrageous opinion -- without even attempting to verify it? Why would they not at least call me and ask whether I'd care to deny the charge?

To be fair, this was in a Times feature called "The Opinionator: A Gathering of Opinion From Around the Web," and this particular opinion had been gathered from Adam Serwer, writing in the American Prospect, which describes itself as "an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas."

But to continue to be fair, the Times is the Times. Years ago, when I worked at the Times - as a reporter, Washington correspondent, foreign correspondent and editor - it was understood by everyone from the lowliest interns to the loftiest editors that a serious newspaper cannot relinquish responsibility for what it puts into print simply by saying: "Whoops, sorry, we lifted that from another publication."

I immediately wrote a note to the Times' ombudsman. He has not, so far, bothered to reply.

Adam Serwer's piece, on the American Prospect's blog, intended to take up the same theme as had Krugman and Rich. He started off by asserting that there has been a "startling trend of right-wing violence recently" but that such incidents are generally regarded as "the acts of deranged individuals rather than of groups because they are white men." This somehow leads to the description of my views noted above. His piece concluded with the question: "How much of the call for ‘extraordinary measures' in fighting terrorism has to do with the unique challenges of fighting global terrorism, and how much of it has to do with an irrational, orientalist fear of all things Arab and Muslim?

In the considered opinion of the American Prospect, that would be me: an irrational, orientialist, fearful of all things Arab and Muslim.

I wrote a note to Mark Schmitt, the American Prospect's executive editor, pointing out that I have never said anything that could remotely justify the views ascribed to me. I added that I have worked closely with Muslims - not least those in my own organization (a think tank focusing on terrorism) since it was created almost 8 years ago, just after the attacks of 9/11. Coincidently, I had spent the past few days hosting a conference attended by at least half a dozen Muslims including ambassadors from two Muslim-majority countries. And years ago, as a journalist, I reported from many Muslim-majority countries. (I did not say that some of my best friends are Muslim.) Why, I asked Schmitt, "would your magazine print something like this about me?" I asked, too: "Are you oblivious to the possibility that telling such a lie will incite some crazy to attack me or my family?"

He replied: "We (and the Times) should have provided a link, but of course you know it was a reference to your much-discussed written comments on The Corner of April 24."

I did not, but I looked up that post on The Corner and found that I had explicitly written that I oppose torture. I had thought to add, however, that I understood there would be those who will label as "pro-torture" anyone who dares argue that there "may be methods of interrogation that are unpleasant but fall short of torture."

I went on to quote Abu Zubaydah, the captured al-Qaeda terrorist who, according to the CIA memos released by the Obama administration, told his interrogators: "Brothers who are captured and interrogated are permitted by Allah to provide information when they believe they have reached the limit of their ability to withhold it in the face of psychological and physical hardships."

This struck me as an important and potentially life-saving insight into the thinking of militant Islamists. "Imagine an al-Qaeda member who would like to give his interrogators information, who does not want to continue fighting, who would prefer not to see more innocent people slaughtered," I wrote. "He would need his interrogators to press him hard so he can feel that he has met his religious obligations - only then could he cooperate. "

Schmitt insisted that what I had written was clearly "referring to interrogation techniques that are widely agreed to be torture" and therefore, the magazine's "characterization of your comments is entirely appropriate."

What's more, he said it was obvious that I was suggesting "there is a particular need to use extreme measures on Muslims/Islamists because of the nature of their religious beliefs, that is, for being Muslims."

I asked him if he genuinely failed to understand the difference between Muslims and Islamists, between -- for example -- a Kurdish businessman and al-Qaeda member with knowledge of plots targeting civilians, or between an Indonesian farmer and a leader of Hezbollah or Hamas. I know there are people on the far right who do not make such distinctions (I sometimes receive angry letters from them) but for the American Prospect's executive editor to hold this view struck me as astounding.

The reality, of course, is that Schmitt is not so ignorant. He simply endorses slander against people like me, people who have the temerity to dissent from the orthodoxy he advocates.

In this case, however, his magazine went beyond misrepresentation to encouraging violence - because anyone who actually does advocate torturing "Muslims because they're Muslim" should be prepared for a dose of his own medicine.

This is more than an assault on me. It's more than an assault on civil debate. It is an attempt to crush debate; to de-legitimize unwelcome arguments and to demonize those who make them. This is a way to say: Shut up or someone will shut you up.

This is the kind of irresponsible and thuggish use of media power that Krugman and Rich claim to decry. We have seen it many times before in many places around the world. But who would ever have expected to see it in The New York Times and The American Prospect, that "authoritative magazine of liberal ideas"?

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About The Author

Clifford D. May is the President of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

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Ad hominem
When the argument is not strong enough against the subject at hand - attack the messenger.
It seems that is the entire method of the current administration, and many of its supporters.

'Your facts are bad because you are just a naysayer'



Opinion
To have an opinion that is at odds with the MSM or the Obama administration is to leave you self open to attack. It is pro forma in the world as we know it today.

It's clear to see
The hit-pieces are coming out slowly but steadily. The way Liberals always begin the move.

Before too long, there will be the pretended serious debates in the Media circles about something along the lines of: "Rising anger and fear in America." Some of the same hit-pieces that are being written now, will be brought into the discussions and treated as "proof" of inflamed rhetoric inciting the unrest.

After more and more discussions about the subject, the Media will start taking polls. The poll questions will be constructed to get the answers that they want and then we'll hear something along the lines of: "The American people are concerned about the growing hatred being expressed in some media circles and think it needs to be stopped."

More and more discussion will be held.

Additional polls will then be taken that will show that the majority of Americans believe that Congress should enact tougher laws against those who use the media to incite hatred and violence.

A self-serving politician (name not yet known) will initiate legislation to combat the supposed growning hatred. He/she will claim: "The American people want something done about this problem and it's time for this Congress to act!"

Obama will act as if he's above it all and will indicate that we shouldn't be too "hasty" or "rush to judgement or conclusions" and will tell us that it would not be prudent of him to meddle in the affairs of Congress.

Obama will then sign into legislation whatever Bill is brought to him.

More of the same.....
Demonize your opponent is the Libs primary operating procedure.

Howard Dean when he was chairman of the Deomcrat party stated "Democrats unlike Republicans don't want to see children go to bed hungry at night." What is left to debate when you say your opponents are in business to starve children?

Democrats are angels of light while Republicans are just plain evil. It is all very simple when you come down to it. No need for any further discussion Dems good while Repubs bad.

Sauce for the goose
Every day, in both columns and posts on TH, I see conservatives using precisely the same tactics against liberals that Mr. May finds so unacceptable when directed at him. I'm so sorry, Mr. May, that you're unaccustomed to the rigors of ideological combat. Yes, yes, I know that tu quoque is an informal logical fallacy, but ideological combat makes ample use of it anyway.

Conservatives routinely charge liberals with responsibility for everything from sexual immorality to pillaging the US Treasury, and with being everything (often simultaneously) from Marxists to Islamists to gay-lovers to operatives for the Anti-Christ. So thicken that skin of yours, Mr. May. If you guys get to do this, so do we.

You Are Brave Mr. May
I thank you for your service. As a military person I understand your outrage.

It is astonishing to me the level of ignorance about the EVIL of the enemy we face.

Why can people not differentiate between Muslims and Islamofascists?

Al Quaeda is strapping explosives to horses in Gaza because Allah allows it? I do not think that any of the beautiful Muslim people you work with ascribe to that idea.

The New York Times management has done an extraordinary thing. They have turned a silk purse into a sow's ear.

The Fourth Estate is dead. The Times has led the way. The ghost of the Old Gray Lady is weeping.

Ugly Truths
The strategy to combat these leftist criminals is not to allow them to silence us, to not apologize for anything we say, and to not attempt to sway them or make them like us. To compromise with them, or negotiate with them, is foolish and unproductive. It also shows weakness which causes followers to desert the conservative movement.

It is also wrong to fret about attacks and violence from them. Bullies will never be disuaded by cowards, and cowardice. They will only be neutralized with resolve.

Bullies respond to fear like sharks do to blood. They will leave you alone if there is a risk to their own safety, or their lives.

And when you show your fear to these scum, you are defeated.

This will unnerve almost all conservative pundits and commentators who subscribe to the notion of acting civil and not provoking their adversaries, but it they are to continue their work without fear, then they need to properly prepare. That means owning, and becoming proficient with guns. By proficient, I don't mean one or two meager CCW courses, but several advanced tactical schools that teach gun fighting, not the gentlemanly art of marksmanship.

Kill one, terrorize hundreds. One leftist gangster shot dead attempting to harm a conservative will cause the others to reassess their position.

Or you can bow to them, humble yourselves, and lose your dignity and your honor.

To Gestell
Thank you. I second everything you said.

Anyone who has the slightest doubt that right-wing rhetoric is inflammatory has only to subscribe, free and online, to Media Matters, which fills my inbox every day with examples. And yes, I know that the Right says Media Matters "takes things out of context", but that won't wash because EVERY item cited by Media Matters is first quoted and then followed by a long passage giving the same quotation in its full original context, source and date included.

Gestell
What exactly is false about "Conservatives routinely charge liberals with responsibility for everything from sexual immorality to pillaging the US Treasury"...? The things said about Cliff were not true.

The fact that Lilly supports you is not much of an endorsement.

Liberals can't tell the truth about anything and feel entitled to slander and libel their opponents because you're so morally superior to us.

Please provide an actual example of where the liberal viewpoint has been slandered or libeled. You need much more than empty innuendo.

And I don't care about your sexuality or about your religion (or lack of). Those are just more typical red herring arguments that seem to be all you are capable of.

Some Random Comments
A communist offers as support of his/her/its belief the concurrence of another communist. Both of them boast of their objectivity.

Leftists, liberals and progressives are the most deceitful, hypocritical liars and wicked scum and it is hoped that after The Restoration (of our constitution after a revolution) there will be mass round ups of these intolerant devils and summary justice.

Excesses by the new revoluationary government must be accepted as necessary. Thereafter, once they are all underneath recently disturbed soil, laced with bulldozer tracks, we can return to the normal administrative due processes of a peaceful and tolerant society.

One of the many examples which illustrates the stupidity and duplicity of liberals is the global warming hoax. These so called intelligent intellectuals accept the calls from liberal elite billionaires to lower their horizons and sacrifice their safety and comforts, all the while those billionaires ride around in huge limousines to their private jets which pollute the stratospher taking them to exotic locales to party.

What do you do with these brain dead dupes? They're seriously flawed and dangerous. They have no business walking around in broad daylight doing things that affect us all.

JD
You're exactly right (on all counts).

AGW is an indication of how diseased the mind of the liberal is. I don't think that even they themselves believe it. It just provides such a great narrative for them to slide their real agenda upon an unsuspecting and naive public.

They must be in a colossal panic now that the temperatures are cooling. If they can pass something like Cap and Trade, they will quickly be claiming credit for diminishing the heat in the biosphere. We've seen this reduction in temperatures coming for quite awhile, given the flip in the PDO from positive to negative, and the lull in solar activity. Climate realists have been predicting for some time that we were going to enter into a cooling period and now it is here.

There do seem to be quite a few drones who do believe the lie, though. I call them Gullible Warmists. Many of them are now saying that people like you and me should be put on trial and executed before we can keep them from saving the planet.

I think, as you imply, turnabout is fair play. When we can show the enormous human cost that their duplicity and nonsense has brought into being and that their inanity is actually causing a real holocaust, then they deserve to be held to the same account that they have envisioned for us.

In any case, I don't think any of them have any idea of what a tiger they have by the tail. Americans are not like the Euroweenies or EUtopians (as Mark Steyn calls them). We will not go gracefully into the night.

PV (Communists Can Read This Too)
I learned in my junior high school science courses 45 years ago about Earth’s cyclical heating and cooling periods, confirmed by scientists and that happened before our SUVs.

Almost every day on one of the many science and learning channels there is a program about geological digs around the world where animal and plant remains are uncovered. In every case the scientist mentions the periods of global climate changes and how they relate to the findings. Again, these changes happened before man and his cars.

Yet, with all this evidence right in front of us, it’s the Left, those who claim to have all this intellectual curiosity, who are unable to recognize the contradiction between Al Gore’s orders to them and the proof that all his absurd theories are totally erroneous.

All of their beliefs are based on ideology, things they want to be true but that are demonstrably wrong.

To balance the budget, their experts borrow multiple times more money. To solve age-old problems, they repeat the failed policies that have made things worse. To encourage citizens to work harder for the common good, they remove all incentives to do so and they reward slackers and loafers.

These people are mental defectives and are a menace to the social order. We euthanize rabid dogs that are innocent victims of biological disorders. Why shouldn’t we do the same for malicious people who intentionally put us at risk?

JD, everything they touch
they destroy. They leave devastation and destruction in their wake at every turn. And yet, they never look back. They never admit any wrong. Never question whether what they have done has been successful, or has caused greater harm than what existed before they became involved.

Look at the pretender-in-chief. He will accept no blame for anything. Every day he begins his "lie of the day" with the caveat of how he has inherited everything, and anything, that is bad or has gone wrong.

But just wait until something positive happens. Of course, that will be all of his doing. Liberalism really is a mental disorder (sorry for stealing Savage's line but it is very true).

I am disconsolate that I don't see a good end coming to where we are. I think what these Leftists are putting into place, if allowed to actually take effect, will be almost impossible to surmount. I don't see how we will be able to allow them to do it. I think there is a great deal of foment, simmering beneath the surface. All we need is for a Thomas Paine, or a Boston Massacre, to set the kindling ablaze.

They Built America
I like the way John Conyers wife (Detroit City Council) when she was caught taking bribes told everyone.

“If you’re not praying for me your part of the problem”

These people have done so much damage to Detroit it’s time to pull the plug and
Let Detroit slip under the waves.

Flint Michigan is bulldozing the barracoons down along with the factories.

There hasn’t been this much damage in America since Sherman marched to the sea

Gestell, Lilly, and THE RULES
It's terrible, seeing conservatives break THE RULES. We all know THE RULES state that conservatives must lie down and take whatever abuse, lies, and slander that our leftist betters see fit to say about conservatives.

Now here we are, daring to have opinions not approved by the left. What's worse, we're expressing them in an open forum where anyone can read them.

You have my insincere condolences.

For decades the left controlled the distribution of mass information. But now with this internet thing us rif-raf can say what we want, call out the professional liars, present conflicting ideas, and in general thumb our noses at THE RULES.

You lefties have a huge head start on us, the afore mentioned decades, but consevatives are catching up to you. And it must scare you spitless.

If you wern't concerned, you wouldn't keep such a close eye on us. We wouldn't see your droppings littering the place so often.

For generations we've watched you. We've learned and are just now appying the lessons. You still got the edge, but it's fading. You aint seen nothing yet as the song goes.

Cliff May- Leftists are at war with U.S.


Cliff May writes: "I immediately wrote a note to the Times' ombudsman. He has not, so far, bothered to reply."


Don’t hold your breath. They don’t care about the truth, they have no integrity, and their highest “virtue” is ‘the ends justifies the means’ in the furtherance of their political agenda.

They are at war with anyone who doesn’t agree with their Leftist religion/ideology.


~~~


Cliff May writes: "I wrote a note to Mark Schmitt, the American Prospect's executive editor, pointing out that I have never said anything that could remotely justify the views ascribed to me....” “…The reality, of course, is that Schmitt is not so ignorant. He simply endorses slander against people like me, people who have the temerity to dissent from the orthodoxy he advocates.”


Exactly.

Many conservatives convince themselves that Leftists are ‘good people with different opinions’ or that Leftists just don’t understand what they’re doing, because if they did, they wouldn’t do it.

But they know exactly what they’re doing, and to think otherwise is just lying to yourself. They’re fine with that though, because the longer conservatives choose to live in denial, the better.

No different than terrorists were at war with the U.S. for 20+ years before September 11th, but we didn’t wake up and take them seriously until 3,000 Americans were killed.

The Left is at war with anyone who disagrees with them, and they have been for a very long time. We continue to underestimate them or ignore their clear intent at our own peril.


'Old Gray Harlot' is a tool of the Left


Cliff May writes: "This is more than an assault on me. It's more than an assault on civil debate. It is an attempt to crush debate; to de-legitimize unwelcome arguments and to demonize those who make them."


Of course it is. And so is ‘Political Correctness’. If you challenge the ‘party line’, they will shout you down as a “phobe” of some kind, or drop the ‘bigotry-bomb’. Their own arguments cannot withstand scrutiny, and preemptively silencing debate is much more efficient than trying to defend the indefensible anyway.


~~~


Cliff May: "This is the kind of irresponsible and thuggish use of media power that Krugman and Rich claim to decry."


Krugman and Rich are 21st century wannabe “brown-shirts” and propagandists. They engage in “irresponsible and thuggish” behavior because they *are* irresponsible thugs.

Take the blinders off. Recognize the enemy for who and what he is, so that you can first defend yourself against him, and then determine how to defeat him.

They’re not pulling any punches; but conservatives aren’t even fighting back (yet).


~~~


Cliff May writes: “We have seen it many times before in many places around the world. But who would ever have expected to see it in The New York Times and The American Prospect, that "authoritative magazine of liberal ideas"?”


How could you NOT expect such dishonest reportage from the Old Gray Harlot?

The NYT is an unapologetic instrument of the Left. It has not been even a semi-legitimate news organization for at least a generation, if not much longer.

It will be a great day in our country’s history when that birdcage-liner goes under.

Let it be soon…


Cliff, I grew up in Seattle in the 60's
and 70's, and I figured out then that liberalism was all about demonizing conservatives while ignoring their own foibles. Liberals were not interested in debate then; they only wanted me and others like me to shut up and let them have the microphone. They weren't interested in facts; they were interested in vilifying those who disagreed with them. They weren't interested in fair play. They were interested only in winning. And you know what? They still are. Fortunately, I think the American electorate is smarter than they think (at least I hope so). If enough of us will ask the right questions, they won't be able to shout us down anymore. So keep on asking those questions, Cliff. The truth will out.

Alinski and Obama Laughing
"This is more than an assault on me. It's more than an assault on civil debate. It is an attempt to crush debate; to de-legitimize unwelcome arguments and to demonize those who make them. This is a way to say: Shut up or someone will shut you up."

Alinski would be proud! Obama is beaming!



JAG CA
"Howard Dean when he was chairman of the Deomcrat party stated "Democrats unlike Republicans don't want to see children go to bed hungry at night." What is left to debate when you say your opponents are in business to starve children?"

That's why Conservatives shouldn't try and "debate". What they should do instead: "Yes, we intentionally want to starve as many children as possible!" "We Conservatives don't give a rat's @ss about children -- except our own -- and besides, the less food wasted on children, the more for us!"

And when the Libs are then perplexed and embarrassed because they realize they're being made fun of, the Conservative should then laugh in their face and continue to make fun of their childish claims. When they open their mouths again, ridicule them, condescend towards them and treat them exactly as they behave: like children.

Do that to Liberals and they will completely blow-up, loose all control and start throwing a tantrum. And everyone will see it.

You can't debate with Liberals. You can no more debate with the childishness of Liberals, than you can with a spoiled child. So treat them the same way you would a spoiled child -- then send them to their room.


JAG CA
"Howard Dean when he was chairman of the Deomcrat party stated "Democrats unlike Republicans don't want to see children go to bed hungry at night." What is left to debate when you say your opponents are in business to starve children?"

That's why Conservatives shouldn't try and "debate". What they should do instead: "Yes, we intentionally want to starve as many children as possible!" "We Conservatives don't give a rat's @ss about children -- except our own -- and besides, the less food wasted on children, the more for us!"

And when the Libs are then perplexed and embarrassed because they realize they're being made fun of, the Conservative should then laugh in their face and continue to make fun of their childish claims. When they open their mouths again, ridicule them, condescend towards them and treat them exactly as they behave: like children.

Do that to Liberals and they will completely blow-up, loose all control and start throwing a tantrum. And everyone will see it.

You can't debate with Liberals. You can no more debate with the childishness of Liberals, than you can with a spoiled child. So treat them the same way you would a spoiled child -- then send them to their room.


Will we ever be able to trust again?
Whatever happened to "let your yes be yes and your no be no."

It seems like we can't trust anything or anybody -- and I hate that feeling.

Here is an interesting blog post on the subject of trust and how people of faith should act:

http://redletterbelievers.blogspot.com/2009/06/will-we-ever -trust-again.html

"...a dose of their own medicine"
Cliff,

I don't think Adam was so much making a prediction as engaging in wishful thinking. Based on the wording, I think he HOPES someone will do violence to you or your family. His message seems to be that you "deserve it".

Watch your back!

PS - Are you sure there aren't to many "R's" in Serwer's name???!

It may have been Jonah Goldberg who once
wrote a column titled, "Shut Up, They Reasoned." I'm afraid that's the kind of reasoning all conservatives are likely to encounter for the next couple of years, if not for the rest of time.

God is our only "hope for change we can believe in."

New York Times
I have also written to the NY Times ombudsman--it's clearly an exercise in futility. Maybe after the Jason Blair episode they actually felt a responsibility to monitor their reporters/contributors. But they will never be able to see beyond their ideological blinders. More concerning is President Obama himself using the same technique: "There are those who will use fear tactics...", etc. It's a sad day when educated people fail to understand how important it is to have an open dialogue.

terry from GA
You're absolutely right. I have a business card that I regularly hand out that says this on the back side: "We Republicans should stop wasting our time complaining about the Democrats and get back to the serious business of evicting widows & orphans, starving the homeless, raising the planet's temperature and cutting taxes for the wealthy."

When I hand these to Dems it makes them apoplectically speechless. All they can do is spit & sputter like Barney Frank. LOL

Isn't it funny
the indignant self-righteousness the liberals have when they lecture us about what is right and how evil we are!

Over and over, on one thread after another, we're told how they are moral because they want to provide health care for everyone but we don't.

The head-scratcher is that they think they have already done their fair share just by talking about the problems, you know, raising awareness.... bla bla bla.

They fully demand that someone else pay for their largesse and someone else do any of the actual heavy lifting that is required. Then they smuggly go home, content they have done their good work for the day.

Liberalism truly is a mental disorder, and the trolls that frequent here truly are either escapees or on work release from mental institutions.

michigander
Amen...amen! It works every time it is tried.

I have always wanted to go on one of those cable shows and debate the Liberal about "Republicans don't care about businesses poisoning the air and water."

And my response to them would be: "Damn right we don't care! We Republicans are born with special gills that filter the toxins of dirty air and water -- why should we care if you Democrats get poisoned?"

Even the biggest Jethro watching from his couch would get it: "That's riiiiiight Baaaaby, if the Repubbbbblicans poisoned the air and water -- theeeeey'd get poisoned tooooo."

Cliff, you lost me with your last
sentence, " But who would ever have expected to see it in The New York Times and The American Prospect, that "authoritative magazine of liberal ideas"?

You should be aware by now that those are the cheerleaders of the libel and slander corps of leftists. They hate America no matter how much they protest when called on it. Their actions speak much louder than their lies.

LOSE THE PERSONAL ATACKS!
Argue the facts, and stop the ad homs. This goes for all posters. I see this behavior from both liberals and conservatives, and it is nonproductive.

May, you are on track! Opponents distort facts, languages and use any means to destroy the credibility of the opponent.

Aspacia
I'll comment in any manner I deem necessary at the time. Sorry if you don't like it.

I'm sick of the people who come here and throw their firebombs. I'm tired of allowing it with impunity. Granted, it's best to ignore them but some of these trolls are insufferable.

reply to jim
You misunderstand: I'm not criticizing May (or you, for that matter) for not playing by somebody's 'rules,' by which I take it you mean some sort of 'rules' about nice, polite debate. I don't expect conservatives to be civil, polite, especially well-informed, or notably skillful at argument. I expect them to snipe from the gutter, and I know that the only way to address them is in the language they understand. Lilly's much more polite than I am.

Ideological combat isn't for nice guys; most of the folks I rip on TH know this--others need to learn it.

How's the "hate" treating you, Gestell?


Is the whole "hate" thing working out well for you?


Frank Rich and Paul Krugman
are vile demagogues who demonize anybody who dares to question their lefty orthodoxy. Rich, in particular, does not allow the facts to get in the way of his opinions. Fact, Mr. Rich: George Tiller performed late term abortions on viable babies (I will not use the word "fetuses") for the most frivolous of reasons. Fact: he is not a hero - unless, of course, you champion abortion on demand for anyone at any time for any reason. Fact: since you champion this, you are an indecent person, Mr. Rich, with no compassion for the defenseless.

reply to Scott
Absolutely great, Scott. It works for me just fine. How about y'all?

Another aside
For Jim, Scott, and others. Vince Lombardi is supposed to have said. "Winning isn't everything, but losing isn't anything." Good advice for the NFL and for anyone who takes politics seriously.

The pathetic weasels
Paul Krugman and Frank Rich prefer to support murdering helpless babies so that no fighting back is to be expected.
Of course they were horrified and so were all the other idiots when Tiller's killer stopped his endless slaughterfest, because the democrats and the lefties and liberals know they deserve it as well. They have primed and pumped the death machine for decades, and the death toll almost equals one for reach idiot voting demolib on the abortion plank platform.
So they all deserve to be summarily judged and EXECUTED.
That will solve the murdering babies problem, reduce our carbon footprint to comply with kyoto pre-1990 levels, and reverse the lying, smarmy, scoundrel thief criminal mind imprint the children of the USA have suffered under the murdering demolib blabberingly insane free putrid speech they spew.
So, the only cost will be the facilities, and most of the baby murdering monsters believe there are enough fema camp coffins and rex 84 concrete tomb sites, we'll just get the coordinates from them before they are executed, with torture if they don't speak up.
Now, there's honorable clean up America plan.
Time to get moving on it.

muslims and faith
I am sure that there millions and millions of muslims who, when pushed to the point of murder for their religion would renounce the hate-filled, intolerant, psychopathic faith founded by a child molesting megalomaniac. All others, however, are more than happy to murder in the name of allah. Honor killings are happening more and more in Europe AND the USA. The "wonderful, peaceful, caring" founder of the TV network "Bridges" remained consistent in his attempt to show that muslims are peaceful and friendly. He beheaded his wife because she shamed him. The act added insult to injury because beheading is what muslims are to do to infidels. (By the way, that is also what the anti-Christ demands of his followers according to Revelations.)
The koran orders muslims NOT to take Christians and Jews as friends. So May's muslims "friends" would probable renounce him in front of other muslims.
The koran tells muslims that the prohibitions that are placed upon faithful muslims do not apply when dealing with infidels. Thus, the koran allows muslims to lie through their teeth. Never believe what a muslim says.
There are so many issues with islam that make it COMPLETELY incompatible with civilized society it can (and has) filled many books. To bad leftist are so bent on destroying free Western Societies that they are allowing those who would kill them to infiltrate their nations.

Magazine of Authoritarian Liberal Ideas
It requires the uncompromised power of The State to impose liberal ideas, otherwise many would resist them in favor of their own enlightened self interests. You know, liberty. The right to prioritize your own agenda over others imposed upon you. Very personal.

This shows how libs would deal with dissent. Ah, yes, dissent, the highest form of patriotism, T.Jefferson, or Howard Zinn, or Saul Alinsky. Doubt Jefferson would have ever said such a daft thing.

As expected
And, Mr. May, in reading your article we can see that you have apologized and taken the defensive by insisting several times how you have befriended and associated with Muslims in the past. Another poster had it right when he said that we shouldn't even respond to their lies and exaggerations. Can you now say that you won't think twice about your statements regarding Muslims or Islamists?
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