Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, March 26, 2009
Cliff May :: Townhall.com Columnist
The American Counter-Revolution
by Cliff May
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The question posed by social scientist Charles Murray at the American Enterprise Institute's annual dinner this month could hardly have been simpler: Do Americans want the United States to be like Europe?

He asked as someone who likes and admirers Europe and Europeans. He asked also because it is becoming increasingly apparent that re-structuring the U.S. along the lines of the European social democratic model is the change many in the new administration -- perhaps including President Obama himself -- believe in. Such a re-direction surely deserves consideration.

Murray is convinced that Europeanizing America is a bad idea, and not only because the European model creates chronically "sclerotic economies." More significant, he says, is the fact that embracing the European model means discarding the Founders' revolutionary re-invention of government, and of the relationship between the state and the citizen. Murray argues this would inevitably "enfeeble" the habits and institutions that have been singularly responsible for making America "robust and vital" -- an "exceptional" nation.

The intent of the modern European welfare state, Murray says, is laudable: to take "some of the trouble" out of life. Dealing with troubles, he concedes, is not always easy or pleasant, but it can lead to satisfactions accessible through no other means. It is how people's lives "make a difference." By contrast, those relieved of important responsibilities, tend to while away their days "as pleasantly as possible."

If amusement becomes "the purpose of life, why have a child, when children are so much trouble -- and, after all, what good are they, really? If that's the purpose of life, why spend it worrying about neighbors? If that's the purpose of life, what could possibly be the attraction of a religion that says otherwise?" And so, in Europe, one sees a diminishing work ethic, catastrophically declining birth rates, a dwindling sense of nation and community, and empty churches.

I would add this: Such a society is no match for the challenge of radical Islam, a surpremacist and aggressive political/religious movement with ironclad convictions about every aspect of life, and adherents willing -- in many cases eager -- to kill and die in pursuit of their vision.

Murray has not explored the national security implications of Europeanization but, coincidently, John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, addresses precisely that topic in a new essay in Commentary magazine. He notes in particular that "foreign-policy eminences here and abroad, including former Secretaries of State of both parties as well as defense officials from the Clinton and first Bush administrations" are now advocating to Obama that the United States emulate "the European Union (EU) as the new model."

Such an approach would require that Washington achieve "transnational consensus" for foreign policies it wishes to implement. It would mean replacing the traditional American concept of sovereignty -- U.S. citizens governing themselves within the framework of the U.S. Constitution -- with something called "responsible sovereignty," a euphemism for ceding sovereignty to the United Nations in the interest of building a "cooperative international order" and, in time, "global governance."

Bolton argues that following this course would make America, by design, weaker while strengthening "international organizations, which have, time and again, proved inefficient and ineffective."

More fundamentally, this would mark a historic break with "the understanding of the U.S. Constitution, which locates the basis of its legitimacy in ‘we the people,' who constitute the sovereign authority of the nation."

Emulating the experiment now underway in Europe, in which nations "share" sovereignty even with non-citizens, Bolton adds, "by definition will diminish the sovereign power of the American people over their government and their own lives, the very purpose for which the Constitution was written. This is something Americans have been reluctant to do."

But that's the direction we now appear to be heading. Bolton contends only "concerted action" can prevent it. The possibility that "irreversible damage will be done to the American project over the next few years is real," Murray warns.

"The drift toward the European model can be slowed by piecemeal victories on specific items of legislation, but only slowed," he adds. "It is going to be stopped only when we are all talking again about why America is exceptional, and why it is so important that America remain exceptional. That requires once again seeing the American project for what it is: a different way for people to live together, unique among the nations of the Earth, and immeasurably precious."

Do a sufficient number of Americans still believe that? Given the failures of America's educational system, do most people even understand the choice that is about to be made? And, even if they do, how many are willing to fight to prevent such a counter-revolution? There may be no questions of greater consequence asked and answered over the years ahead.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Clifford D. May is the President of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

Be the first to read Cliff May's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

"Land of Song", said the warrior bard,
though all the World betray thee.
One faithful sword thy rights shall guard, one faithful harp shall praise thee."

What the hell do you mean "sufficient numbers"
CLIFFY?! Some estimate that only 1/3 of the Colonists actively supported American Revolution v1.0.

What's REALLY wrong, Cliffy, is that SOME of us have been preaching this FOR YEARS, and you POLITICAL HACKS still see this only in terms of PUBLIC OPINION POLES and VOTES!

I see it in terms of FIRE and BLOOD!

Get back to me when you got the GUTS to have THAT conversation.

MY hope is that SOMEWHERE the 21st Century Sam and John Adams, Patrick Henry, Ethan Allan, Tom Paine, are even now putting American Revolution v3.0 into motion.

See you at the barricades comrades--not you Cliffy, you wuss.

The Big Mick

Oh, and by the way
"No truce with kings."

Or Eurofags either.

Tell me Cliffy, are you man enough to extend Murray to what Francis Schaeffer calls "the logical outcome of your presuppositions?"

The Logical extension of Murray is that a REAL AMERICAN is willing to KILL to perserve his Sacred Liberties and HIS SOVEREIGNTY!

As I say, get back to me when YOU are willing to do that, Cliffy.

The Big Mick

One last "forgot"
"When ANY form of Government [even one they thunk up] becomes destructive to these ends, it is the RIGHT [duty?] of THE PEOPLE [don't say nothing about "sufficient"] to alter or ABOLISH it and to institute NEW GOVERNMENT."

Let's roll.

The Big Mick

Big Mick
Is it fair to characterize Cliff as one who questions the willingness or fortitude of "sufficient" numbers of Americans to resist this decay? Or is he just the messenger of the speaker at the AEI dinner?

You are not alone in your dedication to our founding principles and I believe there will be enough of us to turn this tide back when that time comes (I'd say it's past time, but that just me).

TheBigMick
You have saddled me with a nasty dilemma. When we roll do i haul my SKS, rugged, semi-auto, light ammo, my FAL, accurate, but heavy, or my trusty Savage M99? Please Divine Providence, known to look out for fools drunks and the USA, save me from having to make this choice.

TheBigMick
You quote a figure of 1/3 support for the Revolution, but of course the men under arms were far fewer than that. The Taliban controlled Afghanistan with 40,000 armed men in a country of 8 million well-armed men. That's one out of 200. Judging by the ineffectiveness of LE from meter maids to FBI in dealing with the DC sniper, the same 40,000 could have conquered the US, or at least plunged it into chaos.

Answer:
No. Too many of our elite -- the movers and shakers of society -- don't see any American exceptionalism. And until our children are better educated, nothing much will change.

Education is the lynchpin. Pull it out and the whole left wing collapses...if for no other reason than many of them will be without jobs and without a way to infect others with their nonsense.

Re: Critical Mass
"And now as I lie here, my body all holes,
"I think of those traitors who bargained in souls
"And I wish that my rifle had given the same
"To those quislings who sold out the patriot game."

"Some estimate that only 1/3 of the Colonists actively supported American Revolution v1.0."

The "Critcal Mass" necessary for any revolution to succeed is at least strong support of 1/3 of the people. During our Rvolution 1/3 were Tories, 1/3 were Patriots, and 1/3 went the way the wind happened to be blowing at any given time.

Flying Bums.
Europeans and Americans basically share the same values which are Secularism and Pragmatism. They both believe that individual liberty is based upon the pay scale of a worker. But there are religious fanatics that believe a bible carrying bum can fly. It might take decades for them to be grounded.

these guys are neoCONS...
... their obsession is Israel really. They and their confreres snookered Dubya into taking out Iraq for Israel, NOT really for a "war on terror" per se. The stratagem was CLEARLY spelled out back in 1996 as the PNAC.

Dubya was duped by his own insiders-- Libby, Perle, Feith, Abrams, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Wurmser as detailed here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml

The neoCONS supported Amnesty John McCain who vowed to stay in Iraq for 100 years... they are anxious about any potential to view the M.E. in other than a Zionist perspective.

You can ask the questions
you can answer the questions, but talk won't change a d --- thing.

It is time for action.

As I have said before on this site, it is not only the failure of our educational system but also the flood of immigrants from socialist countries who come here bringing their nanny state ideas with them.

How can we expect foreigners, many of whom spent the better part of their lives being indoctrinated with socialist ideals, to value or understand the unique vision of our founders?


oracle1
It is so easy to spot a liberal idiot throwing around his garbage. Just look at the names they pick. Oracle 1, you should have chosen moron one. " John McCain who vowed to stay in Iraq for 100 years." It is such a disgrace that idiots like you are even allowed to exist. Your a racist and an idiot. Let's not finish McCain's whole statement; why would we want to do that. The stimulus money at work. How many people like you has acorn hired.

Counter Revolution
Starting a central site for conservative thoughts, blogs, events, etc. This blog has been added to the site. Please spread the word. Feel free to suggest ideas etc. To view go to, http://aresay.blogspot.com/search/label/1

Complete Destruction is Inevitable
There's only one we're headed: Destruction. Complete and total. Ideas about "European Models" and the like, are nothing more than discussion fodder.

We're not a capitalist society nor a socialist one, we are driven by the childish notion of: fairness. Not even socialism is as "fairness" driven as we are.

It simply wasn't "fair" that everyone couldn't be a homeowner. That's how Freddie and Fannie came about. And we know how well those worked.

It's not "fair" that everyone doesn't have health care. We're about to destroy the best medical system in the world so as to be "fair".

It's not "fair" that everyone can't afford college. Government program after government program have come about and tons of money have been thrown away to make it "fair".

It goes all the way down the line...in everything we do. We're even trying to be "fair" to illegals and believe it or not...to our enemies who want to kill us! We want our enemies to have "fair" trials in U.S. Courts.

We passed Socialism by, back down the road a ways. We're a nation not of adults, but of children believing in the childish and senseless notion of "fairness". And it will certainly kill us.


Re: Hysterical Historians
"Europeans and Americans basically share the same values which are Secularism and Pragmatism. They both believe that individual liberty is based upon the pay scale of a worker."

Only if you disagree with the Founders, to wit:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The history of European Revolutions (French, NAZI, Bolshevik, etc.), ones based on "Secularism and Pragmatism", are not nearly as successful as the American Revolution model, based on "self-evident truths".

Doc Pistol, John A, MsKelly, et al
Attention Melvin and Oracle.

Wish I could stick around and "have my talk OUT" as Samuel Johnson said of John Wesley, but I got to go to work. Doc, Pistol, John, Ms. Kelly,... you are of course, right.
Doc, good point, you are a gentleman and a scholar, maybe Mr. May is only the messenger, it will require a closer deconstruction of his prose which I will invest time in later.

Sorry, Pistol, but tough choices on what to carry is the lot of the footsoldier. I remember reading once a fairly famous American Author, Ambrose Bierce, maybe, observed that the newbies carried extra ammo in their holsters, vets carried "grub."

And I don't know how to pray to Divine Providence on this--it is the crux of my Theo-Political cognitive dissonance. The best I can do these days is insist we FACE the question: "This time does American Revolution PRECEDE American Awakening Revival?" Are the Prophets tasked with calling American to Repentance or Revolution? Is it a season of God's Mercy, or WRATH?

I suggest the original American Prophets faced JUST this choice. At least one Preached Revolution then TORE off his Clergy Robe to reveal the Uniform of the Revolutionary Army.

Ms. K, good point, I hadn't thought THAT all the way out.

Mel and Oracle Jones, (can you name the movie?) you next, but you won't like being served.

mick



We may be doomed
There are too many Americans too worried about who is going to be voted off American Idol or Dancing with the Stars, or what Paris Hilton is not wearing today to be paying attention to what is happening to our country. Obama is a Marxist. His administration is working overtime to expand the power of government way beyond anything the Left accused GWB of. Of course to the Left, whether power should be granted is dependent on who is in charge and what programs or actions are being funded or expanded. Such hypocracy!! The left screamed about deficit spending under GWB, then scream racism or "give Obama a chance" for the Right pointing out the order of magnitude increase in the deficit proposed by the Annointed One. Such Hypocracy! Europe is dying and should not be emulated. WE are the greatest nation on Earth, so why should we follow a system that we have far surpassed? The Left is insane.

reply to: r729
re:
"It is so easy to spot a liberal idiot throwing around his garbage. Just look at the names they pick."

Actually, I am a paleocon who has always voted as a conservative and worked in the Reagan campaigns.

Like about 80% of Americans, I have seen the Iraq war as a profligate mistake... and I KNOW that the progenitors of that war started it to take out Iraq to get permanent bases there for Israel.

Saddam and Osama were OPPONENTS... Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Even Dubya admits that his greatest regret is that he did not have better intell about Iraq-- but WHO told him what to think?! James Baker, who was Daddy Bush's key guy, KNEW not to believe the likes of Bolton, May, Wolfy, Perle, Kristol, Kagan, Abrams, Gaffney, Krauthammer, Medved, et al-- neoCONS all.

Before you bray, read and study more... is r729 your room in the mental hospital?

melvin and oracle Jones
Mel, I thought my prose could be opaque, but yours is downright obscure!

Do I detect the sulfurous odor of an anti-Christian Pseudolibertinearyan? (Pseudo-liberTINE, Aryan). AMERICANS believe Personal Liberty is a function of Labor Theory of Value???

That's COMMIEQR, Melboy!

The FOUNDERS believed in "nature's God" and "their creator" and "Divine Providence" most of em had a high opinion of Classic Christianity--READ em--which may NOT make em Bible Thumpers but DOES make em closer to US then to YOU!

Oracle--if you don't understand (as Newt Gingrich pointed out the day after 911) that the ULTIMATE OBJECTIVES of the Islamanazis is WORLD WIDE ISLAMANAZI Hegemony, with the destruction of the US as a prerequisite to the destruction of Israel as a mere PRELUDE to that, then your bigotry blinds you to a truth so obvious a child could see it. you are not only biggoted toward Jews, you are bigoted toward Sandnazis because YOU DON'T TAKE THEIR OWN WORDS SERIOUSLY!

Isolationism ain't been a viable foreign policy since Lucky Lindy Landed in Paris, boy. To go there renders you SO STUPID as to VOID any cogent or useful thing you might have to say on ANY other topic. It places you firmly in the Tin-Foil Beanie "it's all an alien conspiracy man" Moron Crowd.

You want YOUR wife in a Burka, keep it up, Orie.
But get the phook out of MY way while I KILL the Sworn, enemies of my children, my Republic, MY LIBERTY.

"This [world] cannot long endure, half slave and half free." A. Lincoln.

"[Liberty] delayed is [Liberty] denied; a threat to [Liberty] ANY where is a threat to [Liberty] EVERYWHERE [is a threat to MINE]! M.L.King Jr.

"Extremism in defense of Liberty is no vice, Moderation in pursuit of [Liberty and] Justice no Virtue." B. Goldwater the Younger.

the big mick


Re: Fooling the People
"We're a nation not of adults, but of children believing in the childish and senseless notion of 'fairness'. And it will certainly kill us."

Actually, I believe the majority of Americans consider "fairness" in sports competition terms, as in, "level playing field". No one would accept taking points from the winning team and giving it to the losers as being "fair". The Democratic demagogues have managed "fool some of the people" into believing that the American way is "equality of outcomes".

reply to: Big Mick
I am all for killing bad Islamics, but there are over 1 billion Islamics-- and we took out the wrong ones to get even for 9/11! Osama wanted to take out secular Saddam himself!

Osama has probably been laughing his rocks off seeing us spending $2-3 TRILLION to take out Iraq-- and missing the real target!

As for alleged bigotry toward Jews, it is Zionists I oppose-- most American Jews have opposed the war in Iraq, and Kerry (real surname Cohen) easily carried their vote.
Zionists are a weird militant subset. Militants like May, Kristol and Gaffney are like the Walter Matthau character Prof. Groeteschele in "Fail-Safe"-- scary!

Israel might feel safer... but WE should not.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article3419840.ece

Big Mick
"And I don't know how to pray to Divine Providence on this--it is the crux of my Theo-Political cognitive dissonance. The best I can do these days is insist we FACE the question: "This time does American Revolution PRECEDE American Awakening Revival?" Are the Prophets tasked with calling American to Repentance or Revolution? Is it a season of God's Mercy, or WRATH?"

______________________________

If it is God's wrath, you would be ill-advised to be opposing it materially. "You might even be found to be opposing God" - Gamaliel.

I share your dilemma, but, in all good conscience, I cannot justify, in any reasonable Biblical scenario, going to my local Cabella's and purchasing that Beretta 9mm although I am tempted to do so weekly.

I cannot help but consider Jeremiah's counsel to the people of his day, and consider the parallels with our nation, too significant to be overlooked.

Call me an appeaser but, somehow, it just seems the wrong direction.

"The war horse is a vain hope for victory" - Ps. 33:17

Big Mick, et al
"And I don't know how to pray to Divine Providence on this--it is the crux of my Theo-Political cognitive dissonance. The best I can do these days is insist we FACE the question: "This time does American Revolution PRECEDE American Awakening Revival?" Are the Prophets tasked with calling American to Repentance or Revolution? Is it a season of God's Mercy, or WRATH?"

______________________________

If it is God's wrath, you would be ill-advised to be opposing it materially. "You might even be found to be opposing God" - Gamaliel.

I share your dilemma, but, in all good conscience, I cannot justify, in any reasonable Biblical scenario, going to my local Cabella's and purchasing that Beretta 9mm although I am tempted to do so weekly.

I cannot help but consider Jeremiah's counsel to the people of his day, and consider the parallels with our nation, too significant to be overlooked.

Call me an appeaser but, somehow, it just seems the wrong direction. I consider Richard and Sabina Wurmbrand's example when faced with a similar outlook in their beloved Rumania after '45.

"The war horse is a vain hope for victory" - Ps. 33:17

Big Mick
"And I don't know how to pray to Divine Providence on this--it is the crux of my Theo-Political cognitive dissonance. The best I can do these days is insist we FACE the question: "This time does American Revolution PRECEDE American Awakening Revival?" Are the Prophets tasked with calling American to Repentance or Revolution? Is it a season of God's Mercy, or WRATH?"

______________________________

If it is God's wrath, you would be ill-advised to be opposing it materially. "You might even be found to be opposing God" - Gamaliel.

I share your dilemma, but, in all good conscience, I cannot justify, in any reasonable Biblical scenario, going to my local Cabella's and purchasing that Beretta 9mm although I am tempted to do so weekly.

I cannot help but consider Jeremiah's counsel to the people of his day, and consider the parallels with our nation, too significant to be overlooked.

Call me an appeaser but, somehow, it just seems the wrong direction. I consider Richard and Sabina Wurmbrand's example when faced with a simialar outlook in their beloved Rumania after '45.

"The war horse is a vain hope for victory" - Ps. 33:17

Re: Hysterical Historians
"Even Dubya admits that his greatest regret is that he did not have better intell about Iraq-- but WHO told him what to think?!"

Gee, I wonder who that might be? Wasn't it all those neo-cons at the CIA, like Agent 36-24-36, Valerie Plame?

What do make of President Clinton's Resolution to take-out the Saddam regime? I guess it was all those neo-cons in his administration. How much longer do suppose the sanctions against Saddam and those great UN efforts like the "Oil for Bribes Program" would have been kept in place? They were killing more innocent Iraqis than both phases of the Gulf War, including the insurgency.

BTW, if you were forced to take-out a country like Iran, would it be easier doing it from 1 flank or two?

Help save our government from bankruptcy
Tell Congress to STOP the Spending!

Follow the link and send a personlized message to your members of Congress today.

You can even fax a note to large groups at once, (all Republicans, Democrats or state delegation members).

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/cta/stop_spendi ng

Heaven On Earth.
The lives of the rich and famous should be studied because they know the rewards of liberty best. Dying for Allah will never get you 72 virgins but 72 thousand bucks will. Prayer won’t get you into the bedroom of a beautiful woman but a thousand bucks will. Get a job and work hard and you will get a taste of heaven on Earth.



Acton,

from my observations, your worldview is much more encompassing than most people who post here. I think much of what you say whizzes right by their heads.

Re: A Rose by Any Other Name
"I am all for killing bad Islamics, but there are over 1 billion Islamics-- and we took out the wrong ones to get even for 9/11! Osama wanted to take out secular Saddam himself!"

So in your mind, Saddam was a good Moslem? So Saddam was not connected to terrorism? So Saddam didn't attempt to destroy Israel? So Saddam's military leaders didn't think there were WMD in their arsenal? Have you ever heard of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad? They attacked our embassies during 90's, claimed credit for the 98 embassy attack, and were blamed for the Cole attack. Zawihiri's group (EIJ) was involved in the formation of al Qaeda and formed 2/3 of its leadership) was in contact with Saddam's regime throughout the 90's and dozens of members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad went to Baghdad in 2002 with Zarqawi. Saddam supported the EIJ, and they supported him, along with Saudi, Kuwait, Phillipine groups, Afghani/Pakistani, Sudanese Islamic terror groups. They supported them by arming, funding, and training these groups.

HR 1388
http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1388_txt.pdf

very similar to Farakhan's 'social army' and this is disturbing.........

The Error of Frat Boys - LOL!
President Obama gave sincere well wishes to the Iranians and their leaders - with whom Obama wants to begin a new relationship based on mutual america. In response, the Iranian leaders led a chant saying 'death to america'.

That is how the Land of Hope and Change will destroy america and empower our enemies (is that still legal to say?). I heard we are in the contigency management model of national security now. This means LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AND ENEMIES. Who knew that President Obama's powers were these strong?

Seriously???????

George
you: "We attacked Iraq because Cheney and his thugs thought it would be nice to control the second largest oil producer in the Middle East."
Brilliant! And how is it working out now that we control all this oil. You people always demonize the USA and thats why we hate what you stand for! Is there anything the USA does that is good you morons? NOT LMAO!

about Clinton and neoCONS
re:
"What do make(sic) of President Clinton's Resolution to take-out the Saddam regime? I guess it was all those neo-cons in his administration."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually, the same neoCONS had come to Slick Willie Clinton in '98 and tried to talk him into taking out Saddam (the PNAC stratagem), but he declined.

By the time he took a position on it much later, the Clintonistas had decided that Shrillary should be a hawk, so they came out in favor of it, knowing that they could later say that Dubya goofed it up.

You can learn about PNAC and the neoCONS below, but it takes more curiosity than Dubya had... they devolved from socialist roots-- they just glommed on to the right (see "compassionate conservatism") because that was where the power was for a time, but their overarching issue has ineluctably been Zionism... Cliff May is a case in point.

In about 2004, Dubya crowed to the AEI that he had taken over 20 of their good minds into his administration-- he would reap what he had sown-- they used 9/11 as their excuse to execute PNAC, spelled out 5 years before 9/11.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C entury
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml

No Way
Revolution is not even an option gentleman. Let’s gets serious for a second please. If the Coke Head and Chief has access to the most powerful army in the free world then a hand full of patriots with rifles is not going to revolt against anything. You have several problems as I see it:

First most of the people currently not employed by the government are on drugs, alcoholics or on welfare and either way they are useless to you.

Second all the people who are not in the category listed above are already in law enforcement and are not going to risk their pension to pitch in with the revolution no matter how bad the economy gets.

Third the amount of money it would take to launce anything but gorilla warfare tactics is insurmountable compared to what Cocaine Barry is going to throw at you.

Fourth socialism always fails. No matter what it always fails, now it may take years and millions starved to death like in China or the former Soviet Union but we have the most corrupt most mobbed up vermin that ever crawled out of the Chicago sewer running the budget and it won’t take long to bankrupt the country.

So my advice is to sit back grab a bag of pop corn, hoard you guns, ammo and food because we ladies and gentlemen will be all that’s left standing after the total collapse of the Federal government and then all we have to do is just move unopposed to the first state that succeeds and starts America again.
Semper Fi

yes orical1
and alien jews are behind it all. All this B@ll SH^T about conspiracies just is enough to drive someone nuts. You can't even fight a war with out the NYT publishing your secrets, and you expect me to believe that they would'nt publish this?
Kirk

reply to: Kirk
Many here need to read and study more... try reading--> "HUBRIS: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War"

Since some of you seem to be obsessed with imagined anti-Semitism, it is noteworthy that the authors here are both Jews-- but not Zionists.

As the facile, fatuous excuses they had offered for taking out Iraq all began to smell and proved to be vacuous lies or fabrications, Dubya's key neoCONS all bailed out, leaving him with the egg on his face--> Perle, Wolfy, Feith, and Abrams. Their neoCON buddy Libby became the fall guy.

As for the oil, we have been getting 1/2 the oil out that we got when Saddam was in control.

Curious George
You sir are a perfect example of an indoctrinated leftist tool. Supporting the coke head and chief while spouting the liars and their leftist propaganda. You can stop now Curious George, the coke head and chief is surrendering to the islamo-facisits as fast as he can. May Ala bless you and keep by removing your head as he commanded in the Quran. We are in serious trouble when kooks like you represent the Democrackhead Party.

I got news for you
an Arab-Muslim democracy in the center of the Middle East without a tyrant killing his own people and invading nations around him (Iran and Kuwait) is a GOOD THING. For one, it liberated 24 million from the oppression of Saddam Hussein.

Maybe you forgot, but after WW II, we said, *Never again.*

And removing the Taliban from Afghanistan freed millions of women from sometimes the inability to leave even their own rooms. Taliban areas re-taken in the last year have closed 300 schools that allowed girls to enroll and threatened women who don't wear the burkha or chador with throwing acid in their faces.

Whatever it cost, it was better used than the $billion for ACORN and near $billion for Planned Parenthood (the abortion king of the world) and the sops to Dem. interest groups like Krap and Movealong in the name of *community organizing.* Why should the fed. gov't and my tax monies be used for community organizing?

Actually, it won't be my tax money. It will be borrowed from China, an enemy, who is already into us for billions. And what happens when China decides to shell Taiwan? Nothing. Because we can't afford to have them call our debts.

Live free. Send tea bags to the crooks in Cong. Go to Phila. on 4/18 for a rally at Ind. Mall. while we have some ind. left and haven't had all our med. records stolen, our wages set by one of my former students in the bureaucracy, and you pay more taxes than you *make.*

My Advice
Conservatives, and those who produce and create wealth in America, must accept the unpleasant fact that the country has changed, and that most Americans are ready for the return of feudalism. Finally, the encroachment of the nanny state, the stupification of our school system, and the general opulence of our society so that most have never know down, only up, have fused into a new breed of citizens who are ready for the yoke. What is to be done?

It is folly to hope our elite misleaders will reevaluate their agenda, return to capitalism and individualism, leave their government positions and do something productive. They are a cancer. They will never disappear. Both parties are corrupted and unreliable. It is absurd to trust the GOP to be an opposition. Like Jesse Jackson said, America has two parties with one name

The productive citizens would be better served by finding ways to avoid and evade our government. They should restructure their commerce and operations so that they minimize touch points with governments and parasitic constituencies who feed off our labor. Business interests need to ally and collude with each other against the common enemy of Obama voters and other wastes of human flesh who contribute nothing. At least flies and vultures clean up dead carcasses. Obama voters don’t even do that. They serve no purpose and in a sane society, they would be eliminated.

Under no circumstances should businesses be contributing money to politicians and political parties because to do so is simply to finance their own destruction.

Correction Alert
Hey, something happened to my name. I'm JD's Handsome Son. I'll get it fixed directly.

It's Me
I think I'm back.

problems with ideologues
The problem with people like Bolton and May is that since their repertoire of foreign policy techniques does not extend beyond advocating threatening countries and advocating invading countries. So if people advise negotiating with countries they have no conept of what that entails. And if people advise working with other countries, they see a plot to abandon sovereignty.

It is still amusing, though, that May continues to believe that muslim values have more appeal than western values. There doesn't seem to be any support for such a view. Western ideas extend out into the world, while Islamic ones are pretty much confined to the muslim world. But May presumes without evidence that our values are the weaker ones. I suppose not completely without evidence he does note that religious people have more children. But that is true in this country too, and it hasn't stopped the democratic party from growing at the expense of the republicans.

On the European/American thing, not surprisingly the Europeans do some things better and some things worse than the US. And, of course, Europe is not monolithic, so they do things better or worse than each other.

One thing we definitely do better is that, despite the few claims to the opposite, we have never defined ourselves in terms of ethnicity or religion the way most European countries have. So when arabs and muslims come here they become Americans in a way that has not happened in places like France. That is one bit of exceptionalism that is particularly important to our character and identity.

the virtues of dealing with troubles
I don't see any virtue in dealing with "troubles." The shallowness or depth of a person's life is determined by that person. The US has prodeced some awfully shallow people, from the stereotype of the Valley Girl to someone who sees hardship in terms of the price of arugula. On the other hand, this famous photo, http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/ultima te_in_unfair.htm
plenty of troubles to deal with but I don't see an upside here.
America is freedom, belief in personal freedom, remembrance that "health care" is the labor and time of people and "taxes" is money taken by threat of force from persons. (I am OK with taxation.) America is an idea, and it is no less an idea in the absence of troubles to deal with.
PS. I would fight for the idea of America.

A friend at work told me
that he was ready to give socialism a chance. I don't know if he was trying to pull my chain or if he is really that stupid. I am asking the same question about my country men.

State Sovereignty & The Tenth Amendment
The State Sovereignty Movement is the most promising means to rein in the federal government.

At least 31 States have introduced resolutions in their legislature reasserting their State Sovereignty powers against encroachments of the federal government as provided in the Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Amendment X reads:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

This completely constitutional movement is gaining momentum across the entire political and economic spectrum and among all age groups.

A good link for keeping up with the individual state's activities is @ http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/.

Saw Minnesota Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachman on C-SPAN on Tuesday grilling Geithner and Bernanke about the AIG debacle.

Bachman asked Geithner and Bernanke where in the U.S. Constitution the Treasury or the Federal Reserve are given the power to bailout AIG with taxpayer money.

Both hemmed and hawed and finally pointed the finger at Congress.

All "We the People" have to do is hold all of these politicians' feet to the fire by making them abide by the law of the land, the U.S. Constitution.

This is a true grass-roots movement and does not need any one "charismatic" leader because it benefits all of the people to keep the central government out of the affairs of the people of the states and "chained by the Constitution" to the few and enumerated powers delegated by the States to Congress.




Lon from PA
You wrote: "So when arabs and muslims come here they become Americans in a way that has not happened in places like France"

Too bad that doesn't apply to some other nationalities that are living here.

The revolution in progress is
a withdrawal from the economy by investors and small business. This is unapparent to the majority, but the lousy economy is about to get their attention. Dumbo was elected by people who don't pay taxes, don't have any savings, let alone a stock portfolio. The housing bust and the stock market crash mean nothing to them. But they will look around for scapegoats when jobs for unskilled and entry level laborers dry up. They could very easily blame the wrong people. One thing that they will understand is the illegal alien impact, and the responsibility of the rats that refuse to enforce the laws. This should be made clear at every turn. FDR emerged a hero from the depression, though the general consensus is he was at least as culpable as Hoover. Hitler was dead before Germany figured out he was lying about the Jews. We could have innocents, not the guilty, hanging from the lamp posts if the anger of the mob is twisted. If the lack of jobs can be quite logically fixed on the illegals and by extension to the DC dorks that enabled it, it may be the Politicians, not the businessmen dancing in the moonlight.

Agreed
We must Say It Louder with respect to American Exceptionalism and our core beliefs. There is no doubt in my mind that had America never come to be, Europe would have returned to the Dark Ages. It is our philosophy and our capital and our technological advancements and our ingenuity which has driven wealth production in the world as well as played an irreplaceable role in the physical destruction of Europe's major totalitarian movements.

With regard to the birth rate, that is an economic phenomenon, not so much a social one. In an industrialized, division-of-labor society, each adult individual is extremely productive. There is no need to have children to work the farm and support the family, so the birth rate does go down, but as the mortality rate decreases also, the birth rates are optimum, enough to grow the population at a reasonable rate.

But in a partialitarian country, the adult's personal profit margin is drastically reduced by the statism. Children are therefore a disproportionate economic burden. People therefore have an economic incentive to have no children or fewer children in such societies.

Europe is imploding
under the weight of socialism, and Obama, Hollywood, and a bunch of stupid college students and academicians thinks its a great idea to join them. The next step is a one world government because the idiots will still refuse to learn that large centralized government is our collective death warrant.

Where is europe? In Alaska?
Most public school graduates can't name the 50 states, and they sure don't know where europe can be found on the map let alone if our policies need to be like european policies.

Campbell used a good analogy - if Obama's budget can be compared to alcohol, then it is throwing up wasted on the floor.

This is how to speak to american voters. Don't get all european sophisticated on them, you will lose them. Remember, Obama supporters don't know about europe, they need better examples of why Obama is not right for america. For example; his budget is wasted on the floor drunk and throwing up - that's it!


Backlash
Have we forgotten that so many people left Europe to find freedom and a better life in America? Have our society been 'dumed down' so expertly that we have forgotten our heritage?
All of this Socialism being pushed thru congress at warp-speed will have one amazing result: a backlash counter-reformation.
conservatives are increasingly growing intolerant of all this stupidity in Washington.
The old 'bank oversite & regulatory committee is a joke: fraud, lies, manipulation, sub prime loans ( more fraud)..to the tune of Trillions in debt(on our backs). And we are supposed to simply trust our Gov't and take it?
Hell no! I want My America back.. A Free Republic.. We-The-People..not 'we the tyrranical socialists'.
I want the Fed to simply lower all taxes and get out of the way of working Americans' so we can fix this mess that Congress started!

huge storm a comin'
While Obama fiddles with the controls and tries to deliberately bring down the greatest society man has ever known a big ol' s#!tcloud is brewing in the Middle East. Now, I'm no dimestore Nostradamus but it's pretty clear to any thinking person that in a few short months Israel will strike Iran. They cannot let the mad mullahs get them some nukes. This puppy ain't gonna be pretty either.

This turn of events should put the brakes on Obama's Satanic designs. Or not and we just get there all the quicker. Who knows.

In any event: To Arms My Brothers, To Arms.


Husker2
Ben Franklin thought the same thing. But I'm sure some day the Germans will become real Americans too.

What's
a "real American" these days, anyway?

No hope, unless...
ordinary Americans are willing, and will, take up arms in an assault on Washington and New York, and hope that the U.S. Military will side with the people.

There is a Stalinesque stench coming from the rotten core of the Marxist Democratic Party (MDP), and it is being pushed vigorously by Pelosi and Ried. They are the Enemy Within, and we will ultimately have to revolt against them.

Is it likely to happen? I don't think so because too many Americans are cowardly mental midgets who suckle at the teat of Big
Brother. But we can pray.

Mel
That won't be necessary.

If there were enough people to effect an armed uprising, that would not result in utter chaos and produce a situation that was even worse than the conditions the precipitated it, a mere peaceful demonstration on the steps of the Capitol by that same number would be enough.

OBAMA MUST GO
GO

GO

GO

GO

GO

THIS IS A DISGRACE.


Chuck
Who are the real Americans now days?

It's only my humble opinion, that conservatives who love freedom and the constitution are the only ones left.

The rest seem to want a free ride, social justice, fairness of outcome and all the other liberal bumper sticker inspired crap.

They just don't understand why someone would go down fighting for a lost cause rather than take the yoke.

That's why it is useless to debate them.

Freedom_slave #35
With respect, and at the risk of sounding like a revolutionary(i'm still not decided on that matter), didn't people use those same arguments during Revolution v1.0? I realize that military capabilities are a bit different now(understatement), but at the time it was laughable that Britain could be beaten by farmers with muskets. However, it was guerrilla tactics that helped wear down the Brits. Of course, this is all assuming that the full U.S. military would stand on the side of the government, which I'm sure wouldn't happen. I won't venture a guess as to specific numbers, but I'm sure a significant percentage won't fire on their fellow citizens.

Obama's CHANGE...
As a Conservative, Obama has made the following changes in my life:
I will not vounteer either time or money to any program he supports. I will concentrate on my community only.
I will not invest a dime in the stock market.
I will never again urge anyone to accept orders to go anywhere outside of this country because their President is not keeping their families safe - and they are truly needed here.
I WILL buy American.
I will not shop at WalMart or any other company who employs illegals.
I will write a letter to Obama and/or the majority party the next time they say "I love this country". They obviously never did.
I will not watch Obama on TV or on the Internet one more time, nor will I ever trust his word...or that of his 'pocket people'.
I will not fight for illegal alien rights. They have no desire to become Americans, they aren't loyal enough to fight for their own country, but wish us to fix it for them, then pay for them to live there. Meanwhile, they have no problem making demands here. Obama just wants their vote, but since 72% of Americans DO NOT WANT THEM HERE, he might have to resort to ACORN getting those dead people to vote again.
I will salute my flag, I will sing the anthem, including GOD, I will remain loyal to my fellow Americans, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and freedom.
Obama and his minions have done everything in their power to demean and dismiss legal American citizens. For that reason, I'm all for sucession of states. He can have his little Obamaland with ACORN and Hollywood and illegal aliens, and the new United States can have their Constitution and Freedom.

Remember the Alamo
Talk about revolution on this site is just silly because most of us on this site are too old to fight one and our eyes are going as well as the rest of our bodies.

Besides the radicals already have brainwashed our children and grandchildren. The 60s flower children went into the education field and proceeded to indoctrinate every succeeding American generation. We're a dying breed that fought in America's wars and stoutly defended our liberties but our time is past. Our descendants have been brainwashed and fit right in the European model.

As for the neocons who supposedly were defending Israel when they allegedly worked to get the U.S. to invade Iraq I point to the Jewish Americans who enthusiastically voted for Barack Obama. The president himself was supported and financed by Jewish politicians in Illinois. I think their numbers significantly outweigh any influence prominent neocons have had and will have in the future.

I believe conservative, patriotic Americans are essentially in the same position as the defenders of the Alamo in San Antonio. And I don't see a Sam Houston on the horizon coming to our defense.

Freedom loving Americans are a dying breed.

Oracle claims,
"...there are over 1 billion Islamics"

I had better buy more guns and ammo.

One global American Union
If so many intellectuals want to bring all nations under one global government, have those nations apply to the United States for statehood (and agree to submit themselves to the dictates of our Constitution. There are enough Americans who will refuse to forfeit our birthright and our freedom to the statists here or in Europe.

There already is a groundswell of hundreds of thousands of patriots meeting all over this country organizing to restore the Constitution and brig down big government politicians, Democrats and republicans. Strange there is not much talk about this unprecedented phenomenon.

If THZ (the big zero)
wants to make us into Europe, why doesn't he just move there, and take all the other commies with him? Believe me, I, for one, won't miss him!

Everyone on this thread needs to contact their representatives in the Congress, no matter what party they belong to, and inform them they are OUR employees and then tell them what we expect them to do.

"Fly under the radar" . . .
and WHEN THE TIME COMES, take action.
In the meantime, take care of your family. Refuse to "feed the beast" by doing as much as your work "under the table". Refuse to cooperate with "government thugs" on issues that thwart freedom.
No matter where you live, make preparations for possible curfews and other civil "disruptions" (which are sure to be initiated and controlled by the "government"). Store food and water; make contingency plans in case utilities are disrupted. Coordinate carefully with totally trustworthy like-minded people, taking care that none are government "plants". Remember, there are many more of US than there are of "THEM".

oracle 1 and George in NY
You two are real morons, to put it mildly.

Let's just ignore the fact that Saddam was oppressing and killing millions of people, thousands of which he GASSED! Based on his track record, it was reasonable to assume that he possessed at least one WMD. Just because they didn't find them in Iraq, doesn't mean that he didn't have them! Remember the jets that he sent to his mortal enemy turned convenient friend Iran? It is also reasonable to assume that Syria has those WMD.

Just keep in mind that every U.S. president since Kennedy, has followed his doctrine; the willingness to sacrifice American lives for freedom!

One more thing, if someone was killing your family members, you would pray for ANYONE to stop it, because neither of you Liberal wimps would or could do anything yourselves!

Comprehending "sovereignty"
Perhaps when this nation faces the ominous fact about its sovereignty, it will wake up to the fact that its dependence on God, the Sovereign Creator, has been "despised and rejected". And this nation, like ancient Israel, may become a people in bondage. Only when Israel cried out to their God did He deliver them. We are headed for the same fate unless we change our minds about what freedoms we have been given by Him.

LemonFemale-AK Thx for Link
I hope more of the readers checked out the Link..I remember the original--THAT Mr Carter, like *Jimmy Who* spent far too much time crying about "What If" in lieu of MAKING THINGS HAPPEN..I don't "GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE FRENCH BRITISH, SWEDES, etc do.. I'm an AMERICAN, MEAN and Nasty when crossed, PRETTY DECENT when left alone--JUST REMEMBER THAT!! What U "Pacifists" want is someone (anyone) to "HELP ME "..HELL, NO NOT ME--I'LL DIE FIRST.. CHEERS

SIGNS OF COMING WORLD HEAVAL
Is Barack Obama David Paterson on a national and international scale? Is New York's black, blind governor emblematic of our black, mentally blind, incompetent Commander in Chief? Does Paterson's collapsing governorship prefigure the fate of Obama's presidency?

Click my name and read my piece "Obama's Grand Doctrine of Appeasement and Signs of Coming World Upheaval" for the answers.

globalism and relativism
Last week, the German newspaper, Der Spiegel, ran an essay that almost inferred a sort of buyer's remorse, in that Europe expected more from Obama, and perhaps they expected too much from him. Now they tell us. The overarching theme of the article was how different America was from Europe, and how Europeans had to really "understand" that, contrary to how they would like all America to be like that of the New England states, they need to understand, posited the essayist, that America also contained a large area between the two sophisticated seaboards, which contained a group of parochial people who believed in fundamental religion. I guess that would be those of us who believe in our guns and sky god.

The biggest problem facing America is not the financial crisis, or Obama, Europe, or terrorism. It is relativism. We have become a nation of sheep, who whine that our lives aren't any easier, and expect someone, anyone, to make things better. We don't remember days like, March 25th, Medal of Honor Day, and we don't particularly revere hard work, and the character that follows from it. Sacrifice? ha, how provincial.

The founders warned us to be vigilant. We have let the ball drop. Until we return to the principles that made Americans (therefore making America) great, we get the leaders (and the fallout) that we deserve.

Boxster
Great post! Thanks

Our Educational System a Failure?

Or is it an INTENTIONAL effort to "dumb down" WE THE PEOPLE?

Instead of teaching our proud history, they are being taught that we should not stand up for our RIGHTS, for our COUNTRY, against all enemies - foriegn and domestic.

Our newer generations are being taught that they are too "dumb" to understand the Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and what our Founding Fathers intended for our great nation and us. Only a select few - those in our "government" know what is right, and best for us.

Even the Constitution has been altered on Obama's White House site. Is that how they intend to "educate" (indoctrinate) our children/grandchildren? Suddenly WE are the servants to our government, not the other way around.
No wonder our government hates the Constitution so much - it interfers with what they want to do.

Great Posts
Yes, flagtag. If the liberals had not taken over the public schools decades ago, (and I am a former obstructionist teacher) we would not have generations of well-meaning,ignorant Americans voting themselves largesse at our expense and thinking the US is without any real virtue compared with those idyllic pacifist Scandinavian countries.

George Washington refused to go to Europe, and his Virginia planter countrymen disdained him for his lack of sophistication. I paraphrase, but basically he said that we are charting our own course. I have no interest in the superficialities and frivolities of Europe, and we should avoid European foreign entanglements.

When my lovely, well-traveled niece, who grew up near the Battle of Saratoga, said she voted for Obama, I spoke about the Revolution and the sacrifice of our Founding Fathers and how they conceived of a new government, not the European model. She said, "Well, they're dead." So I'm not hopeless, but jerseyvet, I know where you're coming from.

For the first time, I now see (beyond the constitution) the need for guns for more than target practice and hunting. We need to be able to match what the civilian army corps and the soldiers have out there. Keep your powder dry.


the HIGH cost of foreign adventures
re:

"Oracle 1 and George in NY
You two are real morons, to put it mildly.

Let's just ignore the fact that Saddam was oppressing and killing millions of people, thousands of which he GASSED! Based on his track record, it was reasonable to assume that he possessed at least one WMD. Just because they didn't find them in Iraq, doesn't mean that he didn't have them! Remember the jets that he sent to his mortal enemy turned convenient friend Iran? It is also reasonable to assume that Syria has those WMD.

Just keep in mind that every U.S. president since Kennedy, has followed his doctrine; the willingness to sacrifice American lives for freedom!

One more thing, if someone was killing your family members, you would pray for ANYONE to stop it, because neither of you Liberal wimps would or could do anything yourselves!"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A reality check...
Viet Nam was a TOTAL waste, and Iraq has now ALREADY cost MORE in real $... many live under violent oppression in many places around the world.

So WHY did we REALLY take out only Israel's threatening neighbor which had NOTHING to do with 9/11?! And at an ultimate cost per Israeli of $400,000!

We should have given the Israeli's N.Dakota instead!

Re: Hysterical Historians
"You are talking through your hat. All this nonsense you are spouting, did you get it from some right wing think tank? It consists of nothing more than lies, which you trolls repeat ad nauseam on TH until you start believing them."

You are talking through another part of your anatomy. George Tenet, Clinton's pick for DCIA told Bush that Saddam's WMDs were a "slam dunk'! The "IRAQ LIBERATION ACT OF 1998" whose purpose was "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to
remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to
promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime", was written by President Clinton and approved by a vast Congressional majority. Obviously you are clueless when comes to the true history of UUS relations with the mass murderer Saddam

Re: Hysterical Historians
"For your information, neither the Constitution nor the national anthem include GOD (or god)."

Actually, those who signed the Constitution of the United States of America did so:

"in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,"

Unless you have another definition for "our Lord" other than God, it appears as though "God" is in our COnstitution.

The final stanza of the "Star Spangled Banner" reads:

"And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
"And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

"As a matter of fact, neither did the pledge of allegiance, or any banknotes, until the Eisenhower administration."

In 1864, the words "In God We Trust" were applied to a newly designed two-cent coin. This motto appeared on most of the Union coins during the Civil War.

"Just curious: do you intend to cling to your religion and guns?"

Just curious: don't you feel silly?

Re: Hysterical Historians
"A reality check...
Viet Nam was a TOTAL waste, and Iraq has now ALREADY cost MORE in real $... many live under violent oppression in many places around the world."

Perhaps you are right and JFK shouldn't have approved the assination of South Viet Nam Preimer Ngo Dinh Diem, thus making the Vietnam War American. I guess the Neo-Cons in his administration and the Jewish Lobby in Congress just couldn't stand not Americanizing that war.

"So WHY did we REALLY take out only Israel's threatening neighbor which had NOTHING to do with 9/11?! And at an ultimate cost per Israeli of $400,000!"

Israel's ONLY threatening neighbor? First, Israel is not a neighbor Iraq - they have no common border, unlike Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt. Other than launching Scuds at Israel during the UN anctioned Gulf War, Iraq, unlike Syria has not attacked Israel for over a decade.

BTW, what value do you put on the life of an Israeli?

"We should have given the Israeli's N.Dakota instead!"

Why? They don't want North Dakota, and I a sure the citizens of North Dakota would object to any such "Land for Peace" swap!
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.