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Tuesday, December 23, 2008
Chuck Norris :: Townhall.com Columnist
Jacking Jesus
by Chuck Norris
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'Tis the season to be Jesus stealing? Away in a manger, no Christ for the bed? It has become a new Christmas fetish -- neutering Nativity scenes by jacking Jesus.

Just over the past week, dozens of mini-messiahs have been nabbed from Nativities across the country. Residences, churches and even civic displays in New York, Michigan, Nebraska, Indiana, Florida, Tennessee, Missouri, Illinois and Texas have been exploited by these Christmas scrooges.

And such criminal acts are not restricted to America, as a baby Jesus was smashed and then stolen at the 12th-century St. John's Church in Cardiff, Wales, and a beer was blasphemously left in its place.

To prevent further sacred thefts, thousands of churches and private residences are turning to technology to help them "save" Jesus. But when GPS devices have to be planted in the skulls of the Savior and security cameras have to guard the path of the three wise men, can't we see that society is a bit off-center?

Skeptics might mock these defacements as negligible crimes, but stealing the soul of Nativities is one more dismal sign of a culture gone awry. What type of world do we live in when hoodlums (young and old) commit sacrilege for entertainment?

So here's the hope. These distressing religious crimes probably won't decrease over the years, but no matter how often Christmas thugs try to pilfer Nativities, they can't take away the real Jesus of history.

Sure, cases have been made. Some hope he never existed. In a recent survey, 70 percent of Britons doubted the biblical story of the birth of Jesus. But rebutting such uncertainty as naive, Simon Gathercole, a scholar at Cambridge University, explained that people today are cynical because they don't realize the origins of Christianity are entrenched in real history. Gathercole admonished: "Jesus was born while Augustus was emperor of Rome, just before Herod died. … We're talking about events that are anchored in real history, not in ancient Greek myths."

Another British scholar, N.T. Wright, wrote that most opposing views of Jesus are simply pseudo-historical evaluations: "My argument from this point onward … will be that they have offered us a Jesus of their own imagination, which the church, and anyone else who may be interested ought to resist in the name of serious history."

Dr. Edwin Yamauchi -- a professor of history at Miami University, in Oxford, Ohio -- said: "The fact is that we have better historical documentation for Jesus than for the founder of any other ancient religion."

That is why F.F. Bruce, late professor at the University of Manchester, concluded: "Some writers may toy with the fancy of a 'Christ-myth,' but they do not do so on the ground of historical evidence. The historicity of Christ is as axiomatic (universally a statement of fact) for an unbiased historian as the historicity of Julius Caesar. It is not historians who propagate the 'Christ-myth' theories."

The question is not whether Jesus lived but who he was and is. It's a question we all will answer, consciously or not, especially this Christmas week. It's a question even Jesus asked the people of his day. "Who do people say that I am?"

As for me and my house, he is the Son of God and Savior of the world. That's what we celebrate most on Christmas Day. At the very least, any unbiased reviewer of history cannot deny that time and civilizations have pivoted on his unique and "One Solitary Life":

"He was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.

"He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a house. He didn't go to college. He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born. He did none of these things one usually associates with greatness. He had no credentials but himself.

"He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.

"When he was dying, his executioners gambled for his clothing, the only property he had on earth. When he was dead, he was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.

"Nineteen centuries have come and gone, and today he is the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind's progress.

"All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as that One Solitary Life."

The fact is wise men still seek him. And if you genuinely follow his star, you'll find a stable, not a fable.

For those who seek him, I recommend that you check out these scholarly works: N.T. Wright's "Who Was Jesus?"; F.F. Bruce's "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?"; Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" (or check out his resource-full Web site, www.LeeStrobel.com); or Ravi Zacharias' "Jesus Among Other Gods." And, of course, the Bible, which makes the best of Christmas gifts.

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About The Author
Chuck Norris is a columnist and impossible to kill.
 
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AWESOME article Mr. Norris!!!!
(1) Read Paul L. Maier, Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University, article on "Did Jesus really exist?" http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPN LrF&b=784399&ct=1740233

(2) Read supporting historical testimonies about Jesus (following)...

#1 Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117)
Roman historian) mentions "christus" who is Jesus - Annals

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular." Ref. from http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.mb.txt






#2 Jewish Talmud
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"

#3 Flavius Josephus (about AD 37-101)
(A) a Jewish historian) mentions John the Baptist and Herod - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2

a. "Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness."

(B) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.

“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

#3 (Flavius Josephus CONT.)
mentions James, the brother of Jesus - Antiquities, Book 20, ch. 19.

"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."

right on chuck norris !
JESUS CHRIST IS OUR ONLY HOPE!THANKS,CHUCK!FOR TAKING A STAND!

#4 Thallus Circa AD 52
Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. His writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."

Is this a reference to the eclipse at the crucifixion? Luke 23:44-45, "And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 the sun being obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two."

The oddity is that Jesus' crucifixion occurred at the Passover which was a full moon. It is not possible for a solar eclipse to occur at a full moon. Note that Julius Africanus draws the conclusion that Thallus' mentioning of the eclipse was describing the one at Jesus' crucifixion. It may not have been.

Julius Africanus, Extant Writings, XVIII in the Ante–Nicene Fathers, ed. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973), vol. VI, p. 130. as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

#5 Suetonius (c. A.D. 69 - c. A.D. 140)
Lives of the Caesars - Claudius, sec. 25:

“He banished from Rome all the Jews, who were continually making disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus.”

Lives of the Caesars - Nero, sec. 16:

“Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition.”


#6 Julius Africanus (c. 160 - c. 240)
Chronography, XVIII refers to writings by Thallus and Phlegon concerning the darkness during the Crucifixion:

“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun...Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth - manifestly that one of which we speak.”

#7 Pliny the Younger (A.D. 61- 112)
Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. Pliny wrote ten books--the tenth around AD 112.

"They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."

Pliny, Letters, transl. by William Melmoth, rev. by W.M.L. Hutchinson (Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 1935), vol. II, X:96 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

#8 Lucian (circa 120-after 180)
Greek writer and rhetorician wrote:

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."

Though Lucian opposed Christianity, he acknowledges Jesus, that Jesus was crucified, that Christians worship him, and that this was done by faith.

Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11–13, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4, as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.





Doubt HIS-story?
Then pick up one of the books Chuck recommends at the end of his article and discover many other historical witnesses...

"For those who seek him, I recommend that you check out these scholarly works: N.T. Wright's "Who Was Jesus?"; F.F. Bruce's "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?"; Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" (or check out his resource-full Web site, http://www.LeeStrobel.com); or Ravi Zacharias' "Jesus Among Other Gods." And, of course, the Bible, which makes the best of Christmas gifts."

Great LINKS at Chuck's EXCLUSIVE at WND
Same expanded column at World Net Daily has great links for further supportive stories and evidence...

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=84210

Even Critics affirm Jesus' Existence
RickyLS did a good job by posting the historical sources that support evidence of the existence of Christ.

John Dominic Crossan, member of the Jesus Seminar, says the following about Jesus’ existence:

“ the non-canonical sources are independent and early attestations of Jesus’ life, while the canonical sources are dependent on these earlier non-canonical sources.”

This conclusion is very interesting coming from someone who is a critic of historical Christianity and biblical theology.

Amazing!
I never would have believed it if you'd told me ten years ago, but Chuck Norris has risen to become one of the best opinion writers in America: one of the most eloquent; one of the most heartfelt; and one of the most piercing. God bless you and yours, Mr. Norris.

And yes, I've always enjoyed your movies, too.

We owe you a debt, Chuck
Thank God, there are still a few, a powerfully written and spoken few, left in the entertainment industry, who are unashamedly Christian, and fear not to boldly state it. Hollywood mirrors the mawkish trends of secularism, and the rare person of morals and Christian values stands in stark contrast to those who toady to society's ever-more blatant vices. As Alexander Pope put it:

Vice is a monster of such hideous mien
That to be hated needs but to be seen,
But seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

Keep it coming, Mr. Norris! There are far more dedicated Christians "out here" than the moron mainstream media, liberal academia, the entertainment industry, and the Democrats would ever acknowledge. You carry on a tradition that used to be held high, by such stalwarts as Jimmy Stewart. Of course, in today's world where anyone older than 30 is disdained and, where possible, discarded, it is doubtful that most of those reading your article even know who he was.

As Americans, we are fotunate to have such bold and courageous public figures as yourself.

If it's in the Bible, it must be true...

To any of you who doubt the real and true existence of Frank Costanza, I offer this Wiki as proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus

Happy Festivus to all, and I mean that mostly sincerely!



How clever!
lTz3Td52, your empty remarks only serve to illustrate Mr. Norris's message. By all means, keep up your fallacious caterwauling; you do us all a favour, by demonstrating the anti-thesis of Christ.

Where are all the liberals?
Where are all the liberals to denounce vandalizing Nativities as Hate Crimes? If a similar crime were committed at a GLAAD office or a Planned Parenthood butcher shop, they'd be crying "Intolerant!" "Undiverse!" "Hate Crime!" and other such epithets. But let it happen to a symbol of Christianity and they say it's a petty crime of no real significance.

That's why "Hate Crime" laws are totally useless and unconstitutional. They don't apply to everyone equally, only those the Left deems deserving of their protection.

Hi tech to the rescue!!
They're putting GPS devices inside the Christ Child statues. Can't WAIT till they track down the first scrote who steals one.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Merry Christmas Chuck Norris
God Bless!

THE MIRACULOUS MEANING OF CHRISTMAS
Continued...His miracles born of love and his radically different emphasis on the profound principles of living in right relationship with the Father was perceived as a serious threat by the apostate religious leaders of that day, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. So, ultimately they decided to murder him to erase the unbearable tension between his obvious greatness and their relative pusillanimity. However, his murder on "the old rugged cross," set up by rigged court proceedings, made possible the enormous benefits of the atonement for all mankind willing to meet the terms of the divine covenant of salvation (Luke 9:23).

The Son's (Logos') incarnation as Jesus was not temporary but rather eternal. A divine being, a true God, permanently divested himself of his divine level of function and all that goes with it to meet the needs of all mankind for a savior, a completely trustworthy teacher of divine truth and an advocate for us with the Father. That is by far the greatest and most powerful theological or philosophical concept in the universe and constitutes the real miraculous meaning of Christmas.


Bio.........I am a former atheist. I have a degree in religion from Baylor University and graduate work in theology from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and also from Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary.

THE MIRACULOUS MEANING OF CHRISTMAS
The true meaning of Christmas is the most profound concept in the history of the universe. Before the incarnation of the divine being, the Logos, that we call Christmas, there were two divine beings in the heavenlies. One of them was in relation to the other as a human father is to his son, thus the names, God the Father and God the Son. When mankind was ready, the Father sent the Son to leave the unimaginable glories of heaven to be born of a virgin on earth as a real human baby. He was still the same divine being he had always been, however, his capabilities were limited by incarnation to those of a mere human being. He grew up in Israel as a normal boy would have then except that he was totally unselfish.

When he reached maturity, he began his teaching and healing ministry. Trying to convey the fact that he was the God who became a man proved extremely difficult then as now. But central to his message was the concept of a newly defined kind of love, divine love, unselfish love, holy love.

Wilderness
Mr. Norris, I believe you are speaking to the wilderness. I support you completely and agree with your attitude and plan for your life through God, but I'm afraid the reins of power are increasingly in the hands of the defilers and less in the hands of those defiled.

Nevertheless, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to you and yours.

Stealing Jesus?
They aren't stealing. It's called, 'making bad choices'.

Besides that, it's as close to Jesus as most of them will ever get.

220 volts..
Wired to the baby Jesus. Do you smell something burning? Nuff said!

Wrong Norris
You're cherry picking your facts again, Chuck. And that's a big fallacy and does a HUGE discredit to your credibility. The truth is there is only scant evidence that there was a man named Jesus Christ. What little historical evidence there is indicates there probably was a real man by that name, but most likely his life was nothing like what the bible says. History has shown that the idea of savior gods like Jesus were very popular around that time period and some were indeed based off of real people who had lived. But their lives were embellished by folklore. Want to know more? Check your facts at the following link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm

Why Mandela and not Christ?
As a South African I have never stopped being amazed at how many people the world over know of and admire Nelson Mandela. He is revered, and while a great man who has shown the world how reconciliation can mature, he is nothing compared to Christ (even when just taking the historical account of Christ).

Mandela's kindness, self-control, humility, internal strength and compassion come nowhere near what we saw in Christ's historically documented life. Although Mandela doesn't / didn't seek the acclaim he certainly got it - then why not Christ?

Well Christ is the son of God! Christ challenges the disquiet in our souls and our conscience and the modern world doesn't like it. They started by not liking the cross but accepting the 'cute' baby. Now even the babe is too much to bear when conviction settles in.

Mandela never challenges, Christ does. Mandela is a man, Christ God. If people want to use their secular intellect to judge Christ, at least they should acquire enough facts to recognise that his life and actions tower above even the greats of our own generation. And this is only possible because he is God come down to earth in human form.

Jack...#27
It's you (not Chuck) who are "cherry picking" your facts. Historians like those mentioned in Chuck's article and by me in the first opening eight comments on this blog are far, far more than "scant evidence" as you call it. Like Yamauchi said in Chuck's article, there's more historical evidence for Jesus than any other religious leader. You wave away Jesus with your imaginary historical wand, then you must wave away every other figure of antiquity. Do you homework Jack! We're onto trolls like you who like coming in, say NOTHING about the evidence presented, but merely heckle, drop your little URL fluff, then run on your way like a little elf. As F.F. Bruce said, "It is not historians who propagate the 'Christ-myth' theories." It is skeptics like you! Show me one valid historian's name who denies that Jesus exist. You can't! LOL!

Jack #2...Here's a few URL's back at ya!
For scholarly work by HISTORIANS....read the work of Paul L. Maier, The Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPN LrF&b=784399&ct=1740233

For example, "Jesus: Legend or Lord?" http://www.founders.org/fpress/legend.html
http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPNL rF&b=784399&ct=1739843
http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPNL rF&b=784399&ct=1740233&printmode=1
http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2007/02/whos_writing_th.html

And Edwin Yamauchi--who is professor of history at Miami University
http://www.irr.org/yamauchi.html
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/yama.ht ml
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/
http://www.carm.org/evidence/Josephus_Jesus.htm

As far as good books for the historicity of Jesus...

Jesus Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents the Historical Jesus http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Under-Fire-Scholarship-Histori cal/dp/0310211395/ref=sr_1_6/103-4877096-3559050?ie=UTF8&s= books&qid=1185668722&sr=8-6

Who was Jesus by N.T. Wright
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Was-Jesus-N-T-Wright/dp/028105741 9/ref=sr_1_7/103-4877096-3559050?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=118566 9504&sr=1-7

Jesus Remembered (Christianity in the Making, Vol. 1) (Hardcover)
by James D. G. Dunn
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Remembered-Christianity-Making- Vol/dp/0802839312/ref=sr_1_14/103-4877096-3559050?ie=UTF8&s =books&qid=1185668966&sr=1-14


Jack #3...a few MORE URL's...
F.F. Bruce. The New Testament documents: are they reliable?
http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Documents-They-Reliable /dp/0802822193/ref=sr_1_18/103-4877096-3559050?ie=UTF8&s=bo oks&qid=1185669230&sr=1-18

Fabricating Jesus: How Modern Scholars Distort the Gospels (Hardcover)
by Craig A. Evans (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Fabricating-Jesus-Scholars-Distort-Go spels/dp/0830833188/ref=pd_sim_b_4/103-4877096-3559050?ie=U TF8&qid=1185668800&sr=8-11

One more NEW response from Lee Strobel against attacks on Jesus...
http://www.leestrobel.com/info_TCFTRJ.php

Jack...LAST comment...
The URL you refer people too (even Chuck) discusses philosophers and pop-apologist opinions. You don't turn to Internet websites to check history! You turn to historians, as Chuck did. Like I said, find me one valid historian who denies the existence of Jesus--you won't be able to.

christianity
people always attack the biggest thing.
hence christianity.
it will take generations of islam being forced down the
populace throat for them to have a similar reaction.

i would rig all the baby jesus's with an electric shock.
that might deter these heathen fools from their
acts of disrespect.

John Spencer

Fine post @ 5:46 a.m. Merry Christmas!

Those in the entertainment industry who have made a difference and must be mentioned:

JENNIFER O'NEILL: Now a born again Christian who works tirelessly on behalf of the pro-life movement. This makes her an outcast in Hollywood. The Badge of Honor goes to Miss O'Neill.

PATRICIA HEATON: Has refused to take part in the tasteless degrading of sexuality prevalent in the industry. A badge goes to Miss Heaton.

BRUCE WILLIS: Believes in our fighting men and women serving in the Middle East and has spoken out publicly on their behalf. A badge goes to Willis.

JON VOIGHT: One of a handful of outspoken conservatives in Hollywood. Give him two badges.

CHUCK NORRIS: God Bless You, Chuck. Merry Christmas to you and your family.






News stories about Nativity nabbings?
Thanks RickyLS--great postings!

Chuck's exclusive and expanded article at World Net Daily also explains and gives links to individual news stories about the specifics (like loccations) of the Jesus figurines stolen from the nativities.

See http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId =84210

Tribute to the Fallen Soldiers

History will record that the American Soldier and those American Soldiers who have fallen, rank in the greatest humans who have ever lived on this planet.

The American Soldier have freed millions in bondage and defended the freedom of America with willingness of the ultimate sacrifice.

The Fallen American Soldier is someone who walked the hero's path. Someone who walked into the heart of darkness for Duty, Honor and Country.

The American Soldier waits for the day that they have lived for and trained for their entire life - to defend until death, their families and America, its citizens and freedom.

The American soldier is the fiercest Warrior ever in history, because their mission is the defense of family, neighbors, America and freedom.

The families of the American Soldier, while their faces beamed with pride, their hearts were filled with anxiety and tears as they watched their American Soldier leave to defend them and this Great Country.

Families and neighbors look with horror as the military vehicle stops in front of the home of the American Soldier, to inform them of the ultimate sacrifice of their hero.

No honor can be too great; every tribute is too small for the Fallen American Soldier and their families.

God Bless the American Soldier and their families!

Brencis
Why Mandela and not Christ? You ask the question.

That is real easy, lets just get it our of the way.

Mandela is real, you can see him and touch him, talk to him and hear his reply, see his achievements in the flesh.

Jesus is a fictional character in a fictional book. None of you have seen him or touched him in the flesh.

So Mandela is real...the other is not. does that help clear this up for you?

Idopas found the eggnog!
Funny how the atheists seem to hover waiting for the first chance to drop their loads.

The redemption of lives is the true accomplishment of Jesus.

Merry Christ's Mass!

Note how atheists condemn the thefts.
.

Rich D
Rich.

Re read your post. You make no points whatsoever, except to grandstand embarrasingly.

Let me know how you can prove jesus exists, come on lets hear it. If you have it, blow me away, make all my arguments irrelevent.

Or you have no proof more likely, and hence the grandstanding.

Oh I do understand how you religious zealots hate anyone with another opinion. Youd love to wallow in your beliefs and hatred of anyone who doesnt believe with fellow zombies here. But debate is good for the soul.

Idopas
Idopas speaks . . . with his fingers in his ears, his eyes shut tight, and his brain on holiday from reality. What erudition?

ldopas (voice from the UK)
I see you decided to return and spread your Christmas Cheer to the Colonials again. Britain is somewhat cold and damp this time of year I suspect it would be more profitable to spend time at a pub having a pint of real ale. I say this because your response to Brencis is not up to your usual standard. While in Britain I visited Westminster Abbey and saw the grave of King Henry V. I have also read quite a bit about King Henry a fine author named Shakespeare wrote a play about him. I mention this Shakespeare person because I understand in the new PC Britain he is no longer taught in the schools because you do not wish to offend the Muslims. Returning to King Henry, according to your logic because I never talked, touched, felt or talked to King Henry I must assume he never existed. Actually, your explanation to Brencis was about as clear as mud and had the wisdom of a child.

Idopas scrolls down
Idopas does not read the comments which precede him, he drives by to assert his prejudices without addressing the citations mentioned by the author or the posters and then rails about grandstanding. So why should anyone listen to what you say?

Rich D
"Notice how atheists condemn the thefts"

Well let me put that little chestnut out of your mind.

Im an atheist and I condemn theft of anything. Hear that Rich D?

I dont think its right that your little plastic figures are stolen.

Now, if I wanted to put something up about atheism, would you defend me in the same way as Ive just agreed that stealing nativity figures is wrong.

And answer would be nice, not an insult or an irrelevent rant!

Thank You, Mr. Norris
Once again a very well written column. Christ, while suffering on the cross said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do" - well that's the translation anyhow. These small minded and lost souls nabbing babes from the manager - they don't what they are doing. They don't understand. And most of them never will. To them it is a small thing, a childish act of rebellion- similar to the Grinch that attempted to steal Christmas. It can't be done. Certainly it is disrespectful. Certainly it is vandalism and theft. But for those that believe, it will not change their hearts or take away the hope that was given to them and to all mankind when Christ was born. Merry Christmas everyone.

Lepanto
Ah the man they call Lepanto.

Thanks for not insulting me. You are a rarity.

First can I just put in the garbage this PC slur. From a country that has affirmative action in place its not an insult you should be slinging at us. Secondly we have a much harsher immigration policy than you. Im sure you wont agree, because its not in your interest, but if you want boring facts and laws I can quote them. Just accept what Im saying please, I live here.

The biggest indicator that you have been sniffing glue too much and reading right wing nonsense is saying that things like our history and literature is censored. Garbage. things like Chaucer and Shakespeare and our past are all taught intact. I can tell you that first hand as both my daughters have just passed their exams. So you are wrong.

Your historical figure example is actually a very good point. But the reality is, the legacy of say Henry V is shown in so many facets, including his remains that there is a load more evidence than there is for jesus.

In the end we can argue whether either jesus or Henry existed. But no one worships Henry, and polaxes society with Henrys beliefs. That cant be said of your religion.

Oh there are myths,
Many of them about whom the incarnate Word was and his family. A kinswoman of his mother was married to one of the High Priests?
Joseph and Mary distantly related - both could trace their ancestry back to King David?
Herod's murder of the "innocents?" King Herod murdered his own sons, as well as a number of distant relatives that could claim title to the throne...
Really, most everyone under the Roman occupation, coming so quickly upon the Hellenic occupation, was impoverished, if not by taxes then by the levies upon them by the petty governors and client kings (like Herod the Great)
The "clue" from which springs the myth is "there was no more where travelers lodged."
Look at some of the stranded passengers at the airports during a winter storm and peak times for holiday travel. No matter "how much money" there comes a point that money cannot purchase more than a stall, (or a small room) for some privacy.
It does not change my faith and belief if Jesus was from that time and region's version of the "Bush," "Roosevelt," or the "Kennedy" families.

WratWrangler-RichD-TedMug-Others
Why don’t The Liberal Heathen Cowards of Europe paint graffiti on a Mosque? Don’t worry, SOON ENOUGH they ill be living in The Islamic Republic of Europe under Sharia Law. They WILL come WHINING & CRYING to America for help AGAIN! This time, LET THEM BURN!

A Pagan speaks out...
Mr. Norris, Thank You! You did a great job of pointing out how truly Godless the Christian world has become. If you look at many of the countries, who's citizens have turned their backs to Jesus and God, they have been over-run by their enemies and face annihilation of their religious, political and basic freedoms. I don't need to expound on this, do I??
Anne Graham (Billy Graham's daughter) said that we cannot expect his blessing and protection if we tell him to go away.
Yes, I am a Pagan. But I have maintained that Jesus did exist. He was a loving and compassionate man who tried to teach others about love, acceptance and tolerance. Unfortunately, organized religion, mankind and politics have bastardized His word for their own selfish means. And this seems to be about the only time of year we want to debate His existance and message.
My Pagan brothers and sisters have never once condemned me for believing in Jesus. We have often discussed Him, debated about Him and the bottom line was...we all agreed that He did indeed exist and was the son of a Great God! Jesus was a righteous man with a righteous message.
To the nonbelievers who choose to call the believers "religious zealots"....WE all have free will....You choose to either believe or not believe. Would you condemn someone so quickly because they like to eat strawberries and you don't? There is nothing wrong with sharing the happiness they have found in Jesus. There are two sides to every coin. Consider your feelings if the shoe was on the other foot. You lose your minds if somebody doesn't choose to listen to your "nonbeliefs".
Condemning Christians will only become a new trend if we give in too easily and let it happen. I, for one, will continue to support my Christian brothers and sisters.


MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!



Idopas
A wealth of Archaeological evidence verifying the reliability of the Biblical account including the graves of Caiaphas the High Priest in Israel who was responsible for Jesus’ crucifixion exists. James, Jesus’ brother and Emperor Augustus the Roman leader at the time of his birth as well as many Old Testament figures have existing gravesites. I could go on but I would suggest putting Biblical Archaeological in a search engine. I believe the reading would be of interest.

Through your comments, you strike me as a person who values logic. Is it logical that the life of Jesus Christ could have had the effect on humanity if it was a hoax? Reread what Mr. Norris said about what we know about Jesus’ life and would our world hold up these accomplishments and point to greatness? I could fill pages of men and women whose wisdom and intelligence considered at the genius level and called Christ Lord and Savior. I am sure you could provide Atheists past and present that were just as bright yet none were able to prove what you claim is a hoax.

Logic tells me that a hoax of this nature could not have lasted 2,000 years but belief in Christ ultimately comes down to faith. If you are interested in hearing an argument by one of your compatriots who was an Atheist but converted to Christianity pick up CS Lewis’s, “Mere Christianity”. He certainly was one of those genius level Christians I mentioned.

Hostorical Jesus
Do any of the authors he cites acknowledge the fact that Matthew and Luke can't seem to agree on when Jesus was born. Was it before 4 BC or after 6 BC?

No one can steal Jesus from me
People who think they are doing something harmful are only harming themselves. Turns them into common thieves. Jesus lives in my heart and there no one can steal Him from me.

Idea
Put a little note under the little Jesus:

Smile, you're on candid camera!
And if you put the baby down now
we won't press charges.

Merry Christmas!


Dear Angela
The thing about Jesus is: he claimed explicitly to be the Son of God. Now ethical teaching aside if you do not believe that he was or could be the Son of God you make him psychotically delusional or worse, a liar. Why would anyone want to follow a psychopath or a liar? His words, his teachings would then be only one flawed man's opinion and subject to any and all rejection without any cost whatsoever. Think again.

Liberals????
One writer on this thread asked where the liberals are and if this is a hate crime? I do not believe that a conservative is involved in any of these thefts. Completely out of character. The problem is that when Christians are the victims of what should be identified as a hate crime the mantra is that they are not an identifiable minority and therefore not entitled to the protection of hate crime statutess.

Lepanto Pt 1
Lepanto, I obviously dont agree with very much you say, we are diametrically opposed!

BUT your posts are excellent and make some very good posts. ;-) Most people here post stuff that takes 2 seconds to read and reply to. Yours is thoughtfully laid out..and you know your history. Anyway enough of the complements back to the debate! ;-)

Firstly I would never claim that there was no evidence for a "jesus figure" in history. In fact, and you'll know this, there is evidence of a number of freedom fighters around that time that could have fitted the bill.

No, my assertion is that because a figure may have existed around this time does not prove the existence of a god or any magical mystical force. That mythology was created, and again there is evidence for it, to ensure mass appeal to unite the populace.

You ask is a hoax can be perpetuated for 200 years. Well I would never voice your religion as a "hoax. but the short answer is, of course it can.

You know as well as I do that witchcraft is still practiced, paganism also still exists, worshipping certain god (like the sun) continued for thousands of years.

Lepanto Pt 2
Also over the centuries, religion has been used (fact not fiction) for political and power ends. Pretence of discovering the true cross for example to motivate the crusaders, never mind countless uses of religion and visions by the church over the years to obtain a political outcome.

The bible and most of your texts have been altered and shaped out of recognition over the years. Very very little has been retained.

And of course the number one tactic, so loved by Catholicism and Islam. Fear. Fear of punishment for not believing what the church tells you, fear of going to a "hell", fear of being burnt of stoned.

Im surprised a man of your intelligence plays the "I can’t prove its a hoax" card. It not up to me to prove. My stance is simple - I'll believe you when you show me tangible irrefutable facts - the onus of proof is not on me. Im not making the claim that a god exists, you are. The onus of proof is on you. Just as I dont have to prove the Loch Ness Monster DOESNT exist.

RickyLS
"#2 Jewish Talmud "

The Talmud remains, for me, the most remarkable historical record, outside the Bible itself, in its impeccable and unassailable evidence of Jesus's having lived, performed miracles, claimed Divine Authority, and of having been crucified under Pontius Pilate; not to mention that His disciples after Him, also performed miracles and taught in His name.

That evidence becomes even more astounding when one considers that it, unlike Tacitus or Pliny, is, in fact, a hostile source.

=====

"It will simplify the discussion if we admit the truth at the outset: that the teaching of Jesus is difficult and unacceptable because it runs counter to those elements in human nature which the twentieth century has in common with the first - such things as laziness, greed, the love of pleasure, the instinct to hit back and the like. The teaching as a whole shows that Jesus was well aware of this and recognized that here and nowhere else lay the obstacle that had to be overcome."

Prof. T. W. Manson "The Sayings of Jesus"

I'm not a Christian, but
It's really a shame that some people get their kicks by stealing from a nativity scene. I blame teenagers and frat boys who regard the plastic infant as some kind of Christmas trophy. If they catch an adult doing it, that would be truly sad.

Although I don't support creches on government property, they should never be molested, no matter where they are. At best it's an irresponsible, tacky, thrill. At worst, it's hate.

My sympathies do those who have had this happen to nativity scenes in their area.

Rich
The Talmud is hardly "impeccable and unassailable evidence of Jesus's having lived" having been written from word of mouth hundreds of years after the alleged event.

It was also written in the heat of jewish politics and survival. Over the centuries it was also central to many political and religious motivations by the jewish people and their enemies.

Its more a political document.

Hardly proof now is it.

Crazy
Anyway this whole thread is surreal.

Are we really answering an article written by Chuck Norris, understudy to Bruce Lee and B-Movie actor???

What next Dolph Lundgren on metaphysical reality?

thanks Chuck, great article

Hey Id(i)o(t)pas (voice from the UK) if things are so great in the UK, why are you in CA?

Idopas
"Hardly proof now is it."(sic)



That's why I used the word "evidence"; not "proof".

Gnostic's Bible
Is an interesting, scholarly read as well. These are the writings of first century Christians who knew Jesus, but these texts never made the New Testament as they are too communal, and feminist. This ticked off the patriarchs.

Idopas (response)
I enjoy sparing with you as well. I was only half joking about going to a pub for a pint of real ale because I believe we could have a great debate over a few of them. I wish to focus in on your mention of Hell. Any follower of Christ would have to discuss Hell because Jesus talked about it twice as much as Heaven. This concept of divine justice is actually very logical as proved through the example of British justice. Should I come over to Britain and over a pint you become so frustrated with my Christian argument you take the pint and break it over my head and I wind up in hospital. Although I am the victim, your crime was committed against the Crown and your punishment carried out in the Queens court. It would not be legal for me to punish you.

Divine justice is similar in that sin although done to another is committed against God and He determines punishment. Many Christians correctly point to God having an infinite capacity for love but He is also a God of justice. The one without the other would be meaningless. Since all of humanity is sinners, we are all subject to God’s justice. Biblically it says God created Hell as a place of torment for Satan and his rebellious angels not humans. Only when humankind separated from God through sin did we become included in this divine punishment. Christians believe Hell is a real place and I agree that warning you of such a place may be fearful. Would it be Christian of me, pardon the pun, to not warn you of such a place?

read this
A miracle needs no explanation to those who believe in God, to those who don't, no explanation is enough.

Idopas said...
**Are we really answering an article written by Chuck Norris, understudy to Bruce Lee and B-Movie actor???**

Yes, you are.

(Out of curiosity, why, if you're in the UK, does your name tag say Location CA)?

About 30 years ago....
Some scrotes in Brooklyn stole the Christ Child and gold crown from a church. The Gambinos made one thing perfectly clear. It had better be returned BEFORE they find whoever stole it.

There was an anonymous phone call to the church office and it "mysteriously" appeared in a confessional. Some people CAN be reasoned with it seems.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Merry Christ's Mass
Thank you Chuck. Very profound Thank you...

Let Them Steal
It is amazing indeed that the Christ who's only message was to love God and your fellow man is still feared and hated to this day. His only promise was that some day his followers would enjoy eternal life. He never said that those who choose not to believe would be blown up, have their heads cut off or be fined and thrown into jail. The implication in Christian teaching is they, the non believers would most likely live out their lives, they would then die and be forgotten by men and by God. To be forever erased from God’s mind is their Hell. Christ's followers were and continue to be persecuted because their lives and character are a testimonial or a witness to the unlawful and evil lifestyles of the secular world and religious zealots whose teachings, in reality espouse bondage, tyranny and misery. The true Christian message is life, liberty and happiness; which by the way, is the basic theme or foundation of the American political system. Maybe that's why the United States is hated and envied around the world by religious tyrants and the political left. The tyrannical religious zealots and many in the secular world, especially the political left, being true to their character must rely on lies, coercion, intimidation, and brute force to spread their ideology. They usually start by hurling insults, then by breaking and stealing the symbols of the enlightened. But the faith of the truly enlightened is spiritual and cannot be broken or stolen. So let them break and steal a Christ image. Let them steal the entire nativity scene if that’s what turns them on. And let them further expose themselves as the uncivilized brutes that they are.

Don Juan
"When he grows it back, give me a call."

Even that might not convince you. Some people wouldn't believe even if someone were to rise from the dead.

FANTASTIC ARTICLE!!!
Thanks, Chuck, probably your best ever. To all the Christ haters - you trolls know who you are - MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

I would add one furhter book for adults who seek to know Christ - "Mere Christianity" by C.S Lewis. And for Children, The Chronicles of Narnia are by far the best description of the truths of Christianity.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS - THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!!!!!!

priorities
I think people should be more concerned about feeding the poor, helping their neighbors and having goodwill then about stealing a plastic doll off somebody's lawn. If you are concerned about being a good Christian, sell the fake Nativity scene and use the money to help feed the poor at the local food bank.

Religion is about putting plastic on the lawn, it is about being a good, spiritual person whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or any other religion.

Oh and Mr. Norris, that means not cheating on your wife and impregnating another woman.

Only a fool
Only a fool would deny the existence of Jesus. Just look at any calandar. To question if he was the Mesiah is different. To repudiate him because you are uncomfortable with his message is dangerous to your own well being. To search for an answer is a just persuit. To belittle any who search or those who have found comfort through thier faith is more than stupid, it is down right mean. More damage has been done, more suffering has occured because of trying to deny Jesus than has ever been done in history by all the so called religious wars ever fought. Nazi Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China to just name a few. All of these were secular scocieties. Right now America is at a crossroads. You do not have to believe you just have to open your eyes. If anyone really thinks things are going just swimmingly and everything that is wrong is Bush's fault you are not only foolish but deliberately blind to all that is around.


ldopas
Having read through your comments, I can only say that you are looking for an unequivocable, knockdown fact that PROVES Jesus' existence and deity and basically saying that if none exists you won't believe it. The problem is that history doesn't work that way. It works a lot more on preponderance of evidence. When I was in college, there was a controversy about whether Shakespeare had really existed or if that name was merely a penname for a group of poets and playwrights. A group of English literature scholars wrote an excellent and compelling series of papers deconstructing every source for Shakespeare's existence as a single man and concluding that he was a myth. Our professor made us examine these claims and we returned with the answer that Shakespeare was probably a real man who wrote the plays and poems ascribed to him. In our research we came to realize that there was not one single source proving Shakespeare conclusively, but many sources pointing to his existence. We went with the preponderance of evidence that Shakespeare was real.

Similarly, as Ricky pointed out, there are many sources that lend weight to Jesus as a historical figure. None of them conclusively PROVE Jesus' existence and certainly, outside the Bible, none conclusive proves His deity, but they are historical documentation indicating that Jesus existed and that people very shortly started to believe He was God. That's how preponderance of evidence works.

The last bit of "proof" that you don't possess and I suspect will continue to reject is that of faith. More on that next post.

HappyHolidays
I wish more Christians would spread the word of tolerance and love. It seems many are bigots, racists and generally intolerant of any who do not think and believe like them. This attitude of intolerance has driven many of us away from mainstream Christianity and into other paths of spirtual awareness.

How about a TRUE story......
this wonderful Christmas season.....(I said "Christmas" in English, and in public...and it feels GREAT....

The "One" whom wraps Himself in light works in mysterious ways....this is what I mean:

(true story)

Young John Newton called himself an atheist, and his life demonstrated his lack of belief in God. Even the coarsest sailors aboard his slave-trading ship could not stand his filthy speech. He brutalized the male slaves and sexually abused the women, and he prodded other sailors to do the same. The ship's captain finally put him ashore on the coast of Africa, and there he became a servant of slavers.

Finally rescued by another merchant ship, Newton once again fouled the ship with his presence. In a drunken stupor he almost plunged overboard, and the captain wished that he had. Then, amazingly in the midst of a vicious ocean storm in 1748, God touched his heart. Years after his remarkable conversion, Newton commented, "I see no reason why the Lord singled me out for mercy…unless it was to show that with him nothing is impossible."

The fool who had said in his heart that there was no God was now transformed. He became famous throughout England, both as a preacher and a writer of hymns. Without a doubt, the best-known hymn of this former atheist is the following:

Amazing grace! how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind but now I see.

JOHN NEWTON


Sandra said...
**
Subject: HappyHolidays
I wish more Christians would spread the word of tolerance and love. It seems many are bigots, racists and generally intolerant of any who do not think and believe like them. This attitude of intolerance has driven many of us away from mainstream Christianity and into other paths of spirtual awareness.**

This is a joke, yes? I really, really am trying to understand the humor but it's escaping me!

IdahoGal
For some, it's easier to blame their lack of faith on others rather than look within themselves for the problem, as Jesus counseled us to do.




Faith
I liken faith in God to having heard the aurora -- which is where my screen name comes from. Dr. Akasofu of the UAF Geophysical Institute gave me that name when he and I discussed the controversial topic of audible auroras. Scientists insist they can't be heard, but many Alaskans have heard them. It's like a radio station not tuned in. Scientists will insist it's group hallucination, but our dog heard it, and I think she's not wanting to be included, as one scientist explained why groups sometimes hear it.

When Dr. A and I talked the first time, he had never heard it and politely told me that I was wrong. Years later, he told me that he'd heard it also, but that he couldn't prove it yet because he hadn't been set up with instrumentation and so far, when he had instrumentation, the aurora was silent. "But I have faith I will hear it again with the right equipment to record it."

Faith is experiencing something others say isn't possible. I know folks will tell you it's belief in the absence of evidence, but that's not correct. I believed the aurora "sing" because I had heard it several times. Dr. A didn't believe it until he heard it. Once he heard it, nobody could convince him that he hadn't heard it. There was a time when I did not believe in God and then I experienced Him and now nobody can convince me that He isn't real and involved in my life and this world's realm. I believe because I have experienced it and my experience is my evidence. Other evidence can validate my experience, but my main evidence is my experience. Faith is experiencing something others say is impossible and not letting them talk you out of what you know to be true.

To address one misconception:
"The bible and most of your texts have been altered and shaped out of recognition over the years. Very very little has been retained."

This is an unfounded myth. Translations vary - especially in English due to the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the invention of the King James Version. However St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate has stood for 1600 years now.

Translators, on rare occurrences, have gone through arduous peer reviews and arguments over the smallest adjustment of the Latin to fit the nuances of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic - the equivalent of changing "ire" to "anger" or the like.

The Old Testament is always a tougher subject than the New Testament since it is so much older, but please be clear - we have not spent the last 2000 years in a shroud of darkness where the life and times of Jesus Christ is rewritten from century to century.

The largest conflicts arose in the 3rd and 4th centuries when Christians tried to sort out accurate and inspired Gospels from random National Inquirer-style articles written by the cranks of that day (like the well-debunked "Gospel of Thomas," "Gospel of Mary," and "Gospel of Judas"). Those decisions were well informed by writings passed down from St. Peter, St. James, and St. Paul - contemporaries of Jesus's own time. His prominent Apostles, as well as St. Paul who came shortly thereafter, we extremely public figures who wrote documents - not elusive prophets whose only records were oral traditions passed around in some forsaken wilderness for thousands of years.

aurorawatcher said...
**Faith is experiencing something others say isn't possible**

Yes, and it's also about opening yourself to the possibility. I, too, went through my time of not quite believing in God and His mercy and love. I didn't disbelieve, just didn't see the need. But then my grandchildren came along. And, through them, I began to see what life is about and then I began to experience what I call "God winks." I would be questioning something silently, mulling over ideas and concepts about life and God and the continuity of life and then, like a wink from God, there would be an article, a TV show, a letter, a sermon, a suggestion from a friend about a book I should read, and lo and behold, it would be about my very question! It happened too often to be mere coincidence but it took me opening myself up to the Truth to hear it.

Good article Chuck.
aurorawatcher:

Personal experience is highly subjective and doesn't necessarily serve as objective evidence. What the scholars like Gathercole, Wright, Dr. Yamauchi, Bruce, and others like Strobel, and Zacharais all mentioned in Norris' article have noted, is not so much their personal subjective experiences, but rather the actual credible and objective historical evidence about the person called Jesus Christ.

Faith is not having an "impossible" or unbelieveble experience. It is trusting and acting as if something is true even if have no visible proof. You might say that it's an unshakable confidence in something. Paul in his letter to the Hebrews said: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." He goes on to cite numerous examples of faith from Scripture. If you look at those examples you will see that the people cited, trusted in the character of God, they knew Him and believed in Him and therefore they took Him at His word, and acted upon what He said. That is faith.

People who would jack Jesus or otherwise try take the 'Christ" out of Christmas cannot erase the historical evidence of his birth, his life, death and resurrection, whatever they choose to believe (or not believe) about him. The evidence according to historical scholars supports the biblical view of believers, and not the view of cynics or scoffers. I wonder whose 'faith' is more blind?



Welcome to the storm Chuck
Good article Chuck, however you have now entered the storm. Welcome and have a Merry Merry Christmas.
Watch this feed of posting from this article and you will surely see the storm Christians in this country are facing now and will face at a greater peril in the near future.
To all, Jesus chose to go to the Cross. He chose not to set up his Kingdom here on earth at that time. He chose to accept the ridicule of the non-believer. He never claimed to be the Son of God. Others asked Him and He answered You say that I am. The use of the term "I am" said it all. God told Moses to tell them I am that I am sent you.
Jesus did one thing for man. He made it possible for frail humanity to once again to come to God face to face.
I just read a book by Baldacci, in it is a small orphan boy living in the mountains of Virginia alone. He said, I do not need to go to church to talk to God. I just say, "Hello God" and he and I jaw awhile.
To all of you, Have a merry Christmas and Happy new year.

Christ is Lord
Why do so many trash the doctrine of Chirst. If any man will do His will, he will know. There is peace and joy. Why else would so many follow Him. He has so much to offer us!!!

IdahoGal
Nope, no joke. A lot of Christianity has been about hating people who aren't Christians or more recently hating people who aren't the right kind of Christians. If you don't toe the line when it comes to abortion, than you can't be a Christian. If you think gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, you can't be a Christian. Heavan forbid that you might be a Muslim because you are going straight to hell. Sorry, but that is not a religion I can support.

silly
I have a feeling Jesus would not have cared if people stole statue's of him.

That said, vandals deface everything from historic landmarks to the tomb of Jim Morrison. Why would a statue of jesus be exempt. Yeah Chuck, I can see why it would make you and other Christians mad but honestly, there are much worse things going on in the world.

Mankind will soon reach the point in it's development where gods and religions that worship them will no longer be necessary just as we reached the point long ago where we only needed one god instead of many.

Nate and company
Nate, the atheist, and homosexual militant on other threads.

The stab at a John Lennon like vision fails.

Educated mankind realizes there is a creator.

Nate and company are also religionists. They belong to the atheist church of nothing.

What has become apprent in posters like Nate is that religion, the bible and Jesus, seem to provide a psychological barrier to Nate enjoying whatever behaviors are prohibited in the trinity of faith.

So Nate seeks to remove those barriers to his enjoyment.


Nate...
Chuck already addressed your criticism, "Skeptics might mock these defacements as negligible crimes, but stealing the soul of Nativities is one more dismal sign of a culture gone awry."

Sandra...
Do you have any idea how silly you sound?

One more thing...

With regard to the trade at St. John's Church in Cardiff between the plastic doll and the beer, I'd say the Church got the better end of the deal!




Quick edit - strike one.
You wrote, "That's what we celebrate most on Christmas Day."

My edit would have read, "That's whom we celebrate most on Christmas Day."

Let me try that again.
You wrote, "That's what we celebrate most on Christmas Day."

My edit would have read, "It is He whom we celebrate most on Christmas Day."

reasearch!????
If anyone wants to know the fuss,look it up.You will find Jesus wasborn NOT in winter -there was NO snow,animals r sheltered in winter.Our ancesters celebrated winter festival whcih was meant for SUN god-NOT-SON of GOD.It got messed up & changed around.I am a believer ,just NOT of SUN god.different events got added to this to make it Christmas-which has nothing to do with Jesus.If peopl read their BIBLE,ud find were to celebrate HIS DEATH-this is HIS reason for coming to earth.HE was sent for ransom-to replace the sin of Adam & Eve made.This was a very high price.HE SACRIFICED HIS lIFE for me & all mankind .So whats wrong to celebrate this ??Look it up its the LAST supper??Eat the bread-its my body,drink the wine -my blood,remember??It took me a while to understand it also.I was brought with no celebrating yet parents never explained why.This is what I received from all I researched.What u do with it ,up to u.

Thank you Chuck
MERRY CHRISTMAS! Dear Mr. Norris - Keep your defenses and statements comming - I think they are excellent! And thank you all you persnickity watch dogs for all your detail corrections - God Bless you all! Merry Christmas Everybody!

ldopas
"Rich.

Re read your post. You make no points whatsoever, except to grandstand embarrasingly."

Nice projection. You are grandstanding by coming here to attack Christians and not the thefts.

RD: "Notice how atheists condemn the thefts"

You: Well let me put that little chestnut out of your mind. Im an atheist and I condemn theft of anything. Hear that Rich D?"

The fact that you had to be reminded proves my point. Q. E. D.

You: Now, if I wanted to put something up about atheism, would you defend me in the same way as Ive just agreed that stealing nativity figures is wrong. And answer would be nice, not an insult or an irrelevent rant!"

Category error and more projection. Theft and speech are not the same. If you wanted to put up something offensive to public decency, no. I wouldn't approve of a religious message that demeaned or insulted atheists.

Now, about your proclivity to insult - oh, never mind. Prove that you aren't a Turing machine.

Merry Christmas.

IdahoGal
Yup, those peace loving Christians. Let us reflect upon the history of the Christian Religion. The Spanish Inquisition, the extermination of the pagans, the extermination of the Incas and American Indians, the Ku Klux Klan, slavery, the Bloody Crusades, abortion clinic bombings and the Salem witch trials. Just to name a few.

Janet
"If peopl read their BIBLE,ud find were to celebrate HIS DEATH"

Anybody can die - we celebrate the living Christ.



(BTW, please don't use text messaging shortcuts here - it makes your post so hard to read and tempts us to skip it altogether.)

Carol Chase
Okay, to use Norris's logic.

"Believers might cry that these defacements are horrible sacrilegious heinous crimes, but stealing the soul of Nativities is a more optimistic sign of a culture moving away from religion."

Rich D.
1 Corinthians 11:26 "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."

Anderson659
I loved your post. I love it when people try to make guesses as to the details of my life based on my disregard for organized religion and the bible.

If you'd actually read my other posts with an unbiased eye, you'd realize that I've said many times that I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic. Never once have I ever said I was a homosexual. I am completely heterosexual in a monogamous relationship and engaged to be married with three wonderful children to a woman I am very much in love with and devoted to. In order for you to demonize me in your own mind and in these comment sections however, you must tell yourself that I am a horrible homosexual that will not rest until all the innocent Christ loving people have to hide in their basement to avoid all the homosexual sex that I advocate be done in public view. You probably think I believe that being a homosexual should be a prerequisite for all public offices and that we should try to brainwash all our children into "turning gay". Yes, I've dealt with people like you before and it's always good for a few laugh's at your paranoia.

Your blanket statement that educated mankind believes there is a creator is as laughable as it is baseless.

Contrary to your need to believe otherwise, I live my life probably very similar to yours. I treat people with respect, I am charitable, I am compassionate, and I teach our children the same. I simply do it without religion. So it always confuses me when I read that religion is getting in the way of the behavior you insist I must be engaging in. What behavior would that be anyway?

I can hear the gears in your mind grinding as we speak. It simply cannot comprehend how I could be a good person when my support for same-sex marriage must mean that I am a homosexual pedophiliac god hater. Please, walk away from your computer for a few minutes to let it all sink in. You will find enlightenment in those few seconds before denial sets in.




Sandra
True, we proclaim his death, but celebrate his ressurection and first return and await his second return.

LOL.........Nate in PA...

"Your blanket statement that educated mankind believes there is a creator is as laughable as it is baseless."

heee heee heeeee.....lol

Maybe...
...all the little baby Jesus figures are floating up to Heaven--embarrassed by what is sometimes done in His name. Or maybe it's the terrorists.

cyclical
I think it's a matter of cycles - people trust in the historical evidence; God blesses them; then they think they got somewhere on their own power so they forget God and give themselves the credit for their great progress (chuckle) - then they crash and burn til the next generation rediscovers humility and the evidence, and that God really wants to HELP us from the jump, not judge us; so they turn back to God for help - til the blessing becomes people forgetting God once again! Oh, humanity . . .

There are places in the world (other than Europe and increasingly the US) like China - where real, TRUE trust in Jesus Christ and God's Word and evidence is reportedly beginning to FLOURISH. Great news!!!

Some places in the world would actually APPRECIATE every reminder of God's love that they could get! Apparently not so much in Europe and the US anymore. People just GOTTA learn the hard way - do it THEMSELVES without God - it's been that way since the Garden of Eden . . . forsake God and your eyes will be opened to how great you truly are.

Heh, yeah right.

Nate
"Mankind will soon reach the point in it's development where gods and religions that worship them will no longer be necessary just as we reached the point long ago where we only needed one god instead of many."

Well, perhaps, but unfortunately, it seems that as we move further and further away from "religion" (I would use the term "faith" myself) the negative cultural indicators seem to proportionately increase.

For all the lofty rhetoric concerning man's progress coming fromo secularists such as yourself, I simply don't see evidence that lives disconnected from the transcendant have anything to replace it with that answers or touches innate longings in the human soul. Or psyche, if you prefer.

If you can think of one, I'd love to hear about it.

Christmas is CHRISTmas...duh!
It's interesting that during his lifetime Christ went around "doing good and healing..." (Acts 10:38).

So, why the concerted effort to take Christ out of Nativity Scenes, or the Christmas holiday itself?

Perhaps the Founding Fathers had a good grasp of human nature when they set up our government with a series of "checks and balances." They purposely made it difficult for citizens to alter the Republic many had shed their blood for. I guess they understood that there would be those fringe folks who would try to degrade our great country. Even swipe ceramic Christ-child figurines and try to yank CHRIST out of Christmas.

Go to http://www.patriothangout.com and enjoy hundreds of videos by those patriots who KEEP The Man in the Season and stand up for this great country. Chuck Norris himself is there, too.

Thanks, Chuck, for your great article!

Nativity historicity
Certainly most Nativity scenes' depiction of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, the Wise Men, and the Shephards is inaccurate. After all, the Epiphany occurred months or years after Jesus' birth (according to the Bible).
People who have doubts about the Nativity account in the Bible aren't necessarily doubting that Jesus existed... just some of the details surrounding his birth such as the chorus of angels.
Chuck should stop shadow-boxing with straw men and stick to bad action flicks where he beats up brown people.
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