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Tuesday, October 14, 2008
Chuck Norris :: Townhall.com Columnist
God Gets Boot Again from Washington
by Chuck Norris
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Flying under the radar and literally under the ground of congressional bailout meetings were closet Capitol Hill discussions about God and Washington. It seems another revision of America's religious history has been under way -- this time at the $621 million, 580,000-square-foot Capitol Visitor Center, which will open in a couple of months.

Most news media recently were covering Tina Fey and Congress' foolish financial bailouts; reporter Bob Unruh and WorldNetDaily were virtually alone in exposing this latest divine omission at the U.S. Capitol. This massive and largely underground museum of sorts (about three-quarters the size of the Capitol itself) will have exhibition galleries, theaters, a 550-seat cafeteria, gift shops, etc. But one thing absent is equitable representation of our Christian or religious heritage -- and there are already several corruptions of it. That is why Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., and the 107 other members of the Congressional Prayer Caucus recently sent a petition to the Architect of the Capitol. Their letter details and documents some of the incomplete and inaccurate religious content in the Capitol Visitor Center. Some of the 19 omissions and inaccuracies also can be seen on a YouTube posting by Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., called "War on God."

Thanks to their passion and diligence, Rep. Forbes' office recently informed the public of some good news: "The Committee on House Administration and the Senate Rules and Administration Committee … have acknowledged this important part of our nation's history and have agreed to correct the omission of historical religious content in the Capitol Visitor Center."

The news release also notes: "The Committee on House Administration and the Senate Rules and Administration Committee have agreed to the following changes to the Capitol Visitor Center:

"That the phrase 'Our Nation's Motto' be removed from the plaque describing the engraving of E Pluribus Unum;

"That 'In God We Trust' be engraved in stone in a prominent location within the Capitol Visitor Center and that the panel describing the engraving include the proper recognition of this phrase as our national motto;

"That the Pledge of Allegiance be engraved in stone in a prominent location within the Capitol Visitor Center.

"In addition, the Chairman and Ranking Member of the Committee on House Administration have agreed to the research and development of a permanent religious history display, and have agreed to make every effort to ensure that the display is erected in the Capitol Visitor Center as soon as possible."

Interestingly, the next paragraph comes from an e-mail from the office of the Architect of the Capitol (acquired by the chaplain of my organization, who has exposed key religious revisionisms, at www.nationaltreasures.org) in response to a protest regarding the Capitol Visitor Center's religious omissions. Unfortunately, the e-mail makes it appear to the public as if these religious facts have been included all along, when Rep. Forbes and the 107 other members of the Congressional Prayer Caucus know otherwise, and now you do, too.

"References to religion and faith are, in fact, included in the context of several historic exhibits and several religious items appear in the displays. Some examples include Article 3 of the Northwest Ordinance in its entirety; a copy of the Pledge of Allegiance and the prayer said at the opening of the current Congress; a copy of the Bible used to administer the oath of office to Senators until 1882; portraits of the first House and Senate chaplains; information about religious services regularly held in the Capitol in the 1800s, and an unaltered display of the U.S. Constitution highlighting the First Amendment which established our country's right to the freedom of religion."

That's a good start, but I believe we, the people, need to help keep the pressure on these officials to assure these revisionist rectifications and equitable representation of America's religious heritage -- not just token artifacts. We also must stop the whitewashing of our religious history from taking one more step. We must preserve the fact that our Founders weren't creating a secular state but a sectarian-free state -- and there is a huge difference. With some 15,000 expected guests daily, including thousands of children and students from across America, it is also our duty to safeguard our Capitol's religious history in the Capitol Visitor Center. That is why I am encouraging Americans to write or call the Architect of the Capitol's communications officer (emalecki(@)aoc.gov or 202-228-1793) and also their representatives to voice their opinions.

America's Founding Fathers wholeheartedly believed in the premise stated in Psalm 33:12: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." But what would they have thought of a nation that removes God from its heritage, classroom instructions, civic ceremonies, buildings, monuments, historic sites, etc.? I believe the words of Thomas Jefferson are as fitting for religious apostasy as they were for slavery; words that are inscribed upon his memorial in Washington: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."

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About The Author
Chuck Norris is a columnist and impossible to kill.
 
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LINKS and ADDITIONAL Norris info at WND…
Chuck’s exclusive version of this column at World Net Daily has some GREAT LINKS and a few EXTRA paragraphs. Here is one of them:

“Eliminating or revising our Christian heritage seems to be in vogue these days at America's historic sites. In 2006, tour guides at the Jamestown Settlement, the replica of the first (1607) English colony in America, were caught intentionally leaving out its Christian heritage when discussing the purpose for the colony. In early 2007, the government explained that the inscription ‘In God We Trust’ was ‘accidentally left off’ of the initial minting of the new presidential dollar coins, only to correct the mistake by placing the words on the very edge of the coins – and not until major public pressure was placed upon them did our Congress require the Treasury to place the words back upon the face. In mid 2007, the Architect of the Capitol removed any mention of God from the flag-folding ceremonies at veterans' funerals and earlier attempted to remove ‘God’ from congressional flag certificates. And in late 2007the chaplain of my organization discovered someone in the hierarchy of the Washington Monument had deliberately altered its display of the capstone replica, so that the visiting public would have no idea the Latin words ‘Laus Deo’ (meaning ‘Praise be to God’) were actually inscribed on the very top of the monument as a celebratory finish and dedication.”

Well worth the time to check out the LINKS and his comments on SIX of the specific revisions at the Capitol Visitors Center at http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=778 07


EXTRA paragraph #2...
“Is it merely coincidental that so many acts of revisionism have occurred over the last couple years at governmental historical sites? Is it merely coincidental that the more modern memorials in Washington (like the Roosevelt and World War II memorials) bear virtually no religious inscriptions at all, while all the former ones do? Is it merely coincidental that liberal erasers are right now busy elsewhere in the country deleting our Judeo-Christian heritage for the sake of fully secularizing our nation's past for future generations? Of course not”

Thank you Mr. Norris! Another grand slam coverage of conservative issues!

Thanks, Chuck!
Dave Barton's WallBuilders is my favorite source for history of our Christian Heritage.
I believe that if current trends continue, we, too, will be reading, "Tekel, tekel, mine upharsin". Praise God for courageous men like the prayer caucus and Chuck Norris!

Thank you Chuck
You are a shining example of the good in humanity.
You are remembered in my prayers.

U.S. Heritage in Relgion
Although I'm not a religious person, I grew up with religion during our school session with the Pledge which included "Under God" in 1954; Christmas celebration and caroling; Easter holidays; civics class explaining E Pluribus Unum and In God We Trust; Thanksgiving and Its Blessings from God; and so forth. As I think back on them, I found that our heritage in the Christian religion profoundly affects our culture without which our values and traditions would not be what we Americans are, religious or not. I am part of that heritage more I think about it.

Rich Catholic zealots
Correct my history if I am wrong, but "Under god" is there because of the political pressure brought to bear in the early 1950s by a rich, sexist Catholic organisation the Knights of Columbus.

Is that truth about religious history told in any of the Capitol displays?

Stuart

Thanks Chuck
Mr. Norris, Thank you for highlighting this issue. God bless and keep you and yours....we appreciate you and your witness.

Such a Rich Heritage
US, state, and local laws are derived from the Judeo-Christian culture, such as those laws taken from the Ten Commandments about not stealing, not killing, etc. That is why even the Supreme Court has Moses holding the stone tablets transcribing those commandments.

Another Judeo-Christian culture axiom is the concept of "loving" your enemies, not killing them, as terrorists believe their religion tells them. Unfortunately, we must kill or be killed, so we fight, too....and necessarily.

I stand in awe of those Congressmen who keep watch for us. In their busy lives, they have not forgotten Who got us here.



Pamela
Not stealing and not murdering are codes that have been followed since long before the invention of Judeo-christianity.

Can you tell me any other commandment that is actually enshrined in law?

Stuart

Stu 0448
Your last post was an attempt at humor, right? In case it wasn't, I'll offer a reply in Pamela's absence.

"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain." Although standards are declining, in the interest of brevity I won't try to list all the statutes and regulations that still prohibit cursing. Instead I'll make a sporting challenge: go to the Capitol or, if that's too far away, the closest government building and loudly let fly as many G-Ds as you can. If you're not evicted or arrested within two minutes, I'll buy myself dinner.

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Have you never noticed that nearly all government offices are closed on Saturday and Sunday?

"Honor thy father and thy mother." The most draconian laws against chronic disobedience are no longer on the books, but government still steps in to deal with incorrigible children.

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Yepper, it's still illegal and still grounds for divorce.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Ever heard of perjury? If you haven't, that's okay. After years in public life, Bill Clinton is still hazy about it.

It's too bad that the tenth commandment never made it into law -- "Thou shalt not covet. . .any thing that is thy neighbor's." If it had, most of the income-redistribution schemes that Republicats have hatched over the last century or so would've been nonstarters.


Don't you get it?

The larger the government the less religion we get. BOTH Democrats (w/ intent) and Republicans because they can be bought are contributing to the growth of gov't.

Socialism is inevidable based on the disinformation and dispproportiant funding between parties.

You see government workers that vote now out number Americans unaffiliated w/ gov't that vote.

This comes down to the takers and the makers. There are more takers than makers.

And just like Europe - it killed faith. If Europe doesn't survive this financially radicalism from within their own populations will take hold but it will be Islam not Christianity and you know what that means.

As it is Europeans can't be bothered to reproduce. The ennui and abortion on demand is decimating them. They are so self-satisfied to let gov't do everything that they have forgotten how to do anything effectively. They'll bump along through protectionism but the inequity a lack of competition creates will suffocate them in the end.

The Catholic Church has been very clear on the effects of the Nanny State. Bush, Paulson, Frank, Pelosi, Obama, McCain - they all want the Bailout. Why? To Bailout gov't workers, their real constituency.

Finacials have already driven children to public school from private. The indocrination is fully saturating our society. In a generation or two - there will be nothing left for our founding fathers to recognize.


don't know about you but
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord

God
You are just clinging to your faith, family, firearms, and flag! Sen. Obama is going to jet off to San Francisco with his elite friends to laugh at you and the folks in fly over states.

Our country was founded on the unique concept that the people are given inalienable rights by God and then the folks give limited rights up to the government.

Elsewhere in the world those who controlled government claimed that they were given rights by force and/or by god and that they, the leaders, would give a few limited rights down to the public.

This is why liberals look at traditional faith as being the opiate of the masses. They want to control things from above and God gets in the way.

Putting God in the Visitors Center in DC
Since our country was founded on freedom of
religion, that precious commodity of religion
should never be torn down. Thank you Senators
for insisting our heritage be kept and not
omitted.
FGL
OHIO

Our religious roots
Thanx Chuck! I always look forward to you well thought out columns! May God Bless!
One only has to read the documents our Founding Fathers created, to shape our nation, to see we have always been a God-fearing nation. From our very beginnings, we phrased our human rights as "God-given"! No secular authority is mentioned, only our Creator!
As Walter (#13) mentions, some would like to charecterize Christianity as "the opiate of the masses". That was Chairman Mao, an atheist and mass-murdrer who first coined that phrase. He demanded his secular rule even extend to thought control of the people. That's what the "Cultural Revolution" was about, Mao's striving for God-like, absolute control of China.
The neo-socialists of our country would like to suppress our true roots, our Judeo-Christian sense of justice, to rewrite our very history, for the very same reasons. To cement their secular control of the population and our nation. Is "wealth distribution" (ie; the "nanny state") consistant with the statement "And man shall live by the sweat of his brow"? Remember T. Jefferson's warning: A government that can provide everything to it's people, can take it all away. America has traditionally been strong because of our qualities of industriousness and inovation, NOT our dependance on our government!

Thank you
Chuck I'll make those calls and share this with my contacts asking them to do the same.

Last week David Limbaugh reminded us...

http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2008/10/10/the _stealth_candidate


"The Constitution is only as reliable as the moral fiber of the people from which it derives its power and their commitment to good (and limited) government. That's why John Adams famously said:

'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.'"




Our Nations Motto Here
There is an email that goes around showing a birthday cake from Walmart where the person who decorated the cake put the instructions on the cake as well as the birthday message. I am guessing illegal Mexican construction workers built this building and when they had the instructions about Our Nations Motto here, they didn't know what it was nor could they read English, so they put what they saw.

Mr. Norris
I applaud your bringing this to the attention of true Americans that realize what principles this country was founded on. The liberal left has for decades fought to expunge any reference to our founding fathers belief in a Judeo/Christian God and hopefully the actions of great Americans like yourself will continue to expose their efforts. Only in a country as great as America can those people voice their opinions. Only in places like America can they be non-believers and NOT be presecuted for it. The word tolerance to the left is a paradox. They preach tolerance of minorities but advance persecution of people for their religious beliefs because they KNOW that people of faith oppose their contorted view of decency. I have always admired you for your accomplishments during your early years. You have always exhibited a work ethic and personal responsibility that is exemplary and is a role model for many young people who also admire you. Thanks for your service by bringing this to the attention of the public. Liberals rely on an apathetic public to succeed.

Thanks
The anti-Christian left is everywhere and working diligently to promote every other religion and philosophy except Christianity, which has provided the world with the concept of charity and generosity, individual responsibility, and owing to Caesar what is Caesar's and what is God's to God.

Hearts and Minds
It is imperative that God live in our hearts. It is these people, for whom God is alive in their hearts, that fight to keep Him alive in the hearts and minds of future generations. If He does not live in our hearts first, we won't be seeing Him on any monuments, or in any museums anywhere.

Abraham Lincoln's desk is there
also. The desk that he signed the Emancipation Proclamation at. Every day he had two things on his desk. A glass of water and his Bible....currently the only thing on his desk is the glass.

*under God* comes from the
Gettysburg Address: *that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain...that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom...*

It may be elsewhere, also, but the phrase is definitely in the Gettysburg Address.

Christian Roots
It should be added that the days are drawing very near when believers will once again become under persecution. And some of those who shall be persecutors, shall be those who have become disenfranchised because they have discovered that the great rapture had not come as had been promised in scripture.
But they know not that that promise comes not from God as Jesus Christ, but by the words and promises established by men. Men who having no knowledge of truth, pervert that which is written and distorting and perverting the truth, lead many others away from the truth.
If people would truely read and study the Bible as they profess to believe, they would come to the knowledge of truth in that believers will not be taken out of this world at the sound of the seventh trump, which is when Christ shall return. Not to take away believers from the Earth, but to establish a thousand year reign of government.
Scripture is quite clear that many shall be persecuted and put to death in the last days.
We are quickly entering into the last days. Make no mistake of that. Is is and has been happening before our very eyes. But unless one has wisdom and knowledge in the word of God, one cannot and will not see that which has been decreed according to scripture.
The great falling away as foretold by Christ has
already taken place.

THANKS CHUCK NORRIS !
RIGHT ON CHUCK WE NEED MORE MEN LIKE YOU TO TAKE A STAND.IF B.HUSSEIN IS ELECTED WE WILL HAVE OPRAH NEW AGE STUFF ON DISPLAY,WE CANT AFFORD OBAMA!

Another Hollyweird Elitist...
Trying to cram their ideas down others throats. Fred Thompson, Voight, the makers of that horrible "Carol" movie, and now Norris.

stu is either sadly misinformed or an

outright liar. The Knights of Columbus have few rich people in it, they have never been sexist.

More stu misconceptions, that there were prohibtions against murder and theft long before the 10 commandments. Anyone notice how he supported this ignorant or lying statement. No? That is because he made it up.

Don, admirable sentiments, but Jesus

said that no one knows neither the day nor the hour of His return.

Anne Reply #17
Where can I find the reference to John Adams quote,

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.'"

Love it.

Thanks,
Scott

jayhawk in aotearoa
Please click over to your Daily Kos and leave the adults alone.

eddie too
"More stu misconceptions, that there were prohibtions against murder and theft long before the 10 commandments. Anyone notice how he supported this ignorant or lying statement. No? That is because he made it up."

Two things:
1. The Hammurabi code predates Mosaic Law by at least 300 years, and it contains prohibitions on theft, murder, and bearing false witness.

2. It seems absurd on its face to believe that before the ten commandments were presented to the Moses, people thought it ok to murder and steal.

Scott...quote from Adams...
[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=63

Scott...one more thing about John Adams
Apparently, President Adams was addressing the Massachusettes Militia when he said the above quote

Religious but not Christian
John Adams was NOT what most folks here would term a "Christian" even though he understood himself to be one in some sense.

To Adams "religion" meant all world religions including pagan Greco-Romanism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity.

Adams also doubted that the Bible contained the right version of the Ten Commandments and that's because Adams didn't believe the Bible infallible but errant and only partially inspired.

I've documented all of this at

http://americancreation.blogspot.com

Paleocon
---"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain." Although standards are declining, in the interest of brevity I won't try to list all the statutes and regulations that still prohibit cursing. Instead I'll make a sporting challenge: go to the Capitol or, if that's too far away, the closest government building and loudly let fly as many G-Ds as you can. If you're not evicted or arrested within two minutes, I'll buy myself dinner.---

When was the last conviction for blasphemy in the US? I suppose technically you are right but it is not a just law in view of freedom of expression. You only find blasphemy laws upheld in islamic countries. It is a dead notion in the West, or it should be.

---"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Have you never noticed that nearly all government offices are closed on Saturday and Sunday?---

It is not illegal to trade in the weekend. It is desirable not to have people work every. Are there two sabbaths? Which do you think should be kept holy?

---"Honor thy father and thy mother." The most draconian laws against chronic disobedience are no longer on the books, but government still steps in to deal with incorrigible children.---

OK. So that is not a law then.

---"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Yepper, it's still illegal and still grounds for divorce---

OK. About half the states have some statue on it. When was it last prosecuted?

---"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Ever heard of perjury? If you haven't, that's okay. After years in public life, Bill Clinton is still hazy about it.---

It is not illegal to lie, except if you are legally declaring that you are not lying.

I’ll concede blasphemy and adultery then, although they’re pretty picky ones! The commandment monuments stand to be mocked by the law as it is applied inside the buildings they ‘decorate’.

Stuart

Chuck Norris & David Barton
Only give you a 1/2 truth. Yes there are militant secularists who try to erase the Christian component of America's Heritage from the public square. Yet, Barton & Norris have just as distortionist a "Christian Nation" agenda. The fact is, America has along with its rich Christian Heritage a secular, pagan, freethinking and Enlightenment Heritage that is every bit as important and foundational.

Why then don't we have some monuments to America's rich pagan and freethinking heritage. How about some quotes of John Adams bitterly mocking the Trinity and related orthodox doctrines or his alternate proposed set of Ten Commandments where he noted the reason why they weren't recorded in the Bible was they were lost, that the Bible's text contains errors and amendments.

Check out http://americancreation.blogspot.com/ and scroll down. I'll give you a little hint. The 10th Commandment, John Adams thought, may well have been "Thou shalt not boil the kid, while it is yet sucking."

eddie too
---outright liar. The Knights of Columbus have few rich people in it, they have never been sexist.---

They only allow male members! What do you call sexist if that aint?

---More stu misconceptions, that there were prohibtions against murder and theft long before the 10 commandments. Anyone notice how he supported this ignorant or lying statement. No? That is because he made it up. ---

The earliest known legal decision, on a case of murder, predates the ten commandments by 500 years according to this site:
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/LawMuseum/LawArticle- 44/Duhaimes-Timetable-of-World-Legal-History.aspx#1850bc

Look at the other codes that go back further than that. It is pretty naïve to claim that in our 185,000 year long human history, murder was decreed ‘illegal’ just 3300 years ago.

Stuart

More on America's pagan roots
Google the term "Cato the Younger." He was George Washington's hero and helped shape Washington's noble pagan sense of Stoic virtue. Joseph Addison wrote a play about him that greatly inspired America's Founders. Cato was a figure from pagan antiquity and committed SUICIDE rather than submit to the tyranny of Caeser. This perfectly "fit" what what America's Founders as Whig republicans wanted to do. Yet, it's not at all consistent with traditional biblical Christianity.

You won't hear Barton or Norris discuss facts such as these.

eddie too
You are correct. But times and seasons were given as an indicator of the approachment. Christ left us not ignorant when discerning that approach.
Does one need to have the entire house to collapse around him before he knows that his house is in disrepair. Or does a man know that that sign of disrepair becomes apparent with the falling of one brick of his house?
If we become spiritually wise and we know from truth that the world and its current system of things does have an end and we pay attention, we can know that the time is short. Don't get caught with your pants down.

America has Christian Roots
You see God or some reference to God in many speeches given by past presidents, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. You see God or references to God in many state constitutions (over 40 of them I believe). You see God in our government back when prayer and bible studies were conducted in congress. You see God in several prominant universities, some of which were founded by Christians (I believe Harvard is one of them). Try as you might self proclaimed atheists, agnostics, and those who erroneously believe that "all paths lead to One", God is in the foundation of the USA. You can't deny what is true and backed up by the facts. It's not speculation, it's truth. So yes it should at the very least be acknowledged in the Capitol Visitor Center, and history books too for that matter. Thank God that the members of the Congressional Prayer Caucus weren't too distracted with the financial crisis and were paying attention to what was going on behind the scenes.

mikeh
The truth is that since the fall of Adam, all men have known right from wrong. They have know that theft, murder, rape and homosexuality was indeed wrong. And men continue to have that knowledge because it has been itched into the hearts of all men. But for the most part, men do not want God the Creator. They want themselves to be as God.

TO STU FROM ALABAMA ! AND JON. FROM PA!
SON YOU NEED TO REPENT,DONT PLAY AROUND THIS WEB SITE!THIS WEB SITE IS FOR REAL AMERICANS,SON ARE YOU A EXPERT ON JOHN ADAMS??GO BUY YOU A BIBLE AND START READING,DONT LISTEN TO YOUR WIERD FRIENDS.

Stu, part 1
"When was the last conviction for blasphemy in the US?"

If you interpret _blasphemy_ narrowly, 1838. Blasphemous utterances are still covered by obscenity laws, however. Although I can drop the G-bomb on television with near-impunity, I can get myself arrested in short order by using the same expression publicly in Virginia Beach, to cite one of many examples. Some kinds of blasphemy are also evidently covered by hate-crimes laws. By the way, Maryland's anti-blasphemy law wasn't struck down till 1972. As far as I know, the one in Massachusetts is still on the books.

"I suppose technically you are right but it is not a just law in view of freedom of expression."

You're changing the rules. Your original challenge was to name other parts of the Decalogue enshrined in law. You didn't say that the law had to be just.

(Continued)

Robert
"You see God or some reference to God in many speeches given by past presidents, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson."

That's true. The early Presidents did a lot of God talk. However you'll find precisely NOTHING from them that suggests Jesus is the only way to God. In fact, with rare exception like the one time Washington was ever recorded uttering JC's name when speaking to Delaware Indians, the key Founding Fathers systematically did NOT talk about Jesus Christ, but rather spoke of God in generic philosophical terms.

"Try as you might self proclaimed atheists, agnostics, and those who erroneously believe that 'all paths lead to One,..."

LOL. This is exactly what George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Ben Franklin believed! And indeed this is why they spoke in generic philosophical titles for God precisely so a diversity of faiths could feel united under one generic "Providence."

Stu, part 2
" You only find blasphemy laws upheld in islamic countries. It is a dead notion in the West, or it should be."

See above. Some European countries still prohibit blasphemy, and the EU is considering a ban. Moreover, in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, as in the United States, certain blasphemies now fall under the rubric of hate crimes.

"It is not illegal to trade in the weekend."

Ever heard of blue laws? They are fewer and less obtrusive than when I was growing up, but they still exist, even in blue states such as New Jersey.

"Are there two sabbaths? Which do you think should be kept holy?"

Here again, you're trying to change the rules of your challenge, which didn't ask what I think about Sabbath-keeping. And yeah, there are two Sabbaths -- Saturday and Sunday. Most governments observe both by partly shutting down on weekends.

"OK. So that is not a law then."

Are you saying that when social-services agencies make such interventions, they're acting outside the law?

"OK. About half the states have some statue on it. When was it last prosecuted? "

Dunno for sure. It's still a UCMJ violation subject to court-martial, however, as the 1997 prosecution of LT Kelly Flinn, USAF, demonstrated.

"It is not illegal to lie, except if you are legally declaring that you are not lying."

Yeah? Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby might differ with you on this matter.

Proud of you boy Huck now, Chuck?
Good chance you won't see God within your own homes in the not too distant future thanks in part to you and your fraud-faux pastor Huck and the role he played in blocking a legitimate NOMINATION to Romney.

McCain is, was and will be UNELECTABLE. Romney would be wiping the floor with O's jug-ears - especially in light of our current financial crisis and ROMNEYS background and steady hand here.

Thanks Chuck - you and your contemptible little pharisee have cleared the way for ruining America and enslaving generations to come.

Proud of you boy Huck now, Chuck?
Good chance you won't see God within your own homes in the not too distant future thanks in part to you and your fraud-faux pastor Huck and the role he played in blocking a legitimate NOMINATION to Romney.

McCain is, was and will be UNELECTABLE. Romney would be wiping the floor with O's jug-ears - especially in light of our current financial crisis and ROMNEYS background and steady hand here.

Thanks Chuck - you and your contemptible little pharisee have cleared the way for ruining America and enslaving generations to come.

JOn.....Pharoah....are you two for real?
Jon...looks like no one is taking your bite! That's the only LOL I see.

Pharoah...I didn't think it was Chuck and Huck that blocked Romney. I thought it was Romney who blocked Ron Paul!! Any more shell games you want to play??!

Get back to the subject gentlemen! Revisionism is taking place of our Christian heritage at historic and governmental places...and the proof is 100% at http://www.nationaltreasures.org

Did you cut and paste that? It's http://www.nationaltreasures.org Now read what's there and quit whining!

Carol
Not only am I for real but I am a published scholar on the matter and have gotten friendly praise from those more sympathetic to the religious conservative side. I don't care if anyone "bites" as long as you read what I have to say, which I know folks do. Here is, btw, Michael Novak replying to my criticism of him where he calls my arguments "intelligent."

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2007/04/what-is-christianit y/

Not found in the local rag
And yet another example of why one should not assume that the really important issues are being covered in our local newspaper, or any newspaper or TV station, actually.

Thank goodness for the conservative columnists. And a specific thanks today to Chuck.

I would note
if you folks are interested that I am an expert on this matter. My friend and co-blogger Jim Babka (former Press Secretary to the late Harry Browne) invited David Barton to debate me on Babka's radio show, but Barton declined. So I am willing, as it temporarily stands, to answer your questions. And I note I stand by every one of my assertions and can defend them with meticulous citations to the primary sources.

Would you like to see John Adams rejecting the tenets of orthodox Christianity? Mocking the Trinity, Incarnation and Atonement? Asserting the Bible has "errors" and "amendments"? How about George Washington praying to the Native Americans' "Great Spirit" God by name which is worse than praying to Allah by name because at least Allah claims to be the God of Abraham whereas the Great Spirit makes no such claim. I can show you Jefferson and Madison following Washington's lead and also referring to God as "the Great Spirit" when speaking to unconverted Native Americans. Or how about a nice quotation from Washington's own minister terming him not a "real Christian" because he used to get up and walk out and turn his back on the Lord's Supper, thus intimating his rejection of the doctrine of Christ's Atonement. I've got lots of great stuff at my disposal.

"Scholar"?..."Expert"?...
If you don't mind, I'd love to know where you were educated. Degrees? Ivy League?? Or degree from the back of the Enquirer??


On The 6th Day Chuck Norris Created God
the only thing greater than god is chuck norris! one time god disagreed with chuck so chuck kicked god in nuts

Jon

I would not question your ability to find all kinds of mud on any president we have ever had. Just as I can today find articles that question Ms Palin's motherhood of her own child. Politics has not historically been what a reasonable person would call a bastion of truth.

You may believe that the many Puritans and Quakers among our founders came to this country to set up a secular humanist state. Have at your fantasy, but do not be surprised if many of us don't buy into it.

removing God
.......And people wonder why this counry is swirling into the black hole in the toilet bowl! We romove God from our society and replace him with celebrities who are themselves shallow idols..... Wait till you do actually get to see God.... You'll be on your knees!!

"Just the facts, Ma'am"
The motto "In God We Trust" was placed on US coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. There were many appeals from devout persons throughout the country urging that the US recognize the deity on coins. The Congress passed several acts on the use of the phrase on some coins.
On July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States. It was first used on paper money in 1957.

This, as well as the "under God" part of the pledge, were added as an example of the US as a "Christian" nation as opposed to the "godless Marxists" of the Soviet Union.

More to follow on the Founding Fathers' writings on religion.

Thomas Jefferson's writings on religion
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." - Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816

Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a slaughter-house." - Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy, absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823

more Jefferson's writings on religion
"The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." - Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

James Madison writing on religion
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

People, these guys were Deists and mostly Freemasons. Please stop trying to re-write history!

Paleocon (1)
To be fair my ‘challenge’ was: Can you tell me any other commandment that is actually enshrined in law?

(Using Exodus):

“Do not have any other gods before me.”
Not illegal in the US.

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
Not illegal in the US. What god threatens to do in response IS illegal in the US.

“You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.”
I take your points about blasphemy laws. It depends what you mean by wrongful, really, doesn’t it? If I shouted loudly on the Capitol steps “the Judeo-christian god is a genocidal maniac” it would be a correct statement on the evidence of his old testament confessions. Is that wrongful? I have conceded that blasphemy is illegal but maintain that such laws should be viewed as unconstitutional. I am not a constitutional lawyer and may not know what I am talking about!

“Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. For six days you shall labour and do all your work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.”
It is not illegal to forget the sabbath. It is not illegal to ignore the requirement to keep it holy. It is not illegal to work on Sunday. It might be illegal to sell cars and / or alcohol, but that is not the wording of the commandment. It isn’t even in keeping with the intent of the commandment, really. It depends on what holy means. You could buy a car, drive to a friend’s house and drink to god’s health!

Stuart

Paleocon (2)
“Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.”
Not illegal to ignore this in the US. Do social services actually intervene in cases where ‘honouring’ has not happened? I would think it is usually much graver behaviour that warrants intervention. What god promises to do to unruly children is definitely illegal.

“You shall not murder.”
Yup.

“You shall not commit adultery.”
Conceded, although the law is effectively dead.

“You shall not steal.”
Which has been codified long before the commandments were allegedly passed down.

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.”
Not illegal unless you are under some legal oath or equivalent. Scooter et al are acting under an oath or are in a public position which legally requires them to be truthful.

“You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.”
Not illegal to desire your neighbour’s stuff and people. Doesn’t capitalism encourage the former?

I concede there are four commandments enshrined in law and of those only two have any universal meaning.

Stuart

John Adams' writings on religion
For the Fundies! Adams was not one of you.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - John Adams, letter to John Taylor

I never said
America was founded to be a "secular humanist" state. But neither was it founded to be a "Christian" nation. Rather, a nation that was "religious" in general but not Christian or even "Judeo-Christian" in particular.

Re my degrees, they are neither Ivy League nor mail order. I have three graduated degrees, one of which is a law degree from Temple University.

Further, I reject the notion that "they were all Deists." However, the key Founders like John Adams were not "Christian" as most on this site would define the term. The key Founders, even though they tended to call themselves "Christian" rejected most if not all of the tenets of orthodox Christianity. To them "Christianity" meant being a good person, not being saved thru Christ's blood atonement. In short, while they weren't "deists" they were "heretics."

Distortion
Some of the founding fathers were deists, some, theists, and some Christian. But to try and put them in the same category as people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, people who reject reason and rational inquiry in favor of dogmatic absolutes, is a hideous distortion. It is a slap in the face to where our founding fathers beliefs really came from - the Enlightenment. And, though, we all can quote mine all day, the only document that matters is our constitution and God is conspicuously absent from there.

Paleocon #10
"government building and loudly let fly as many G-Ds as you can. If you're not evicted or arrested within two minutes, I'll buy myself dinner."

Happy eating. There are no laws that I know of that prohibit swearing in a government building. There are laws against disturbing the peace but they are used to prohibit loud and disorderly behavior. Swearing in-and-of itself is not illegal.

"but government still steps in to deal with incorrigible children."

That is called Child Protective Services and has nothing to do with Honoring they Father and Mother. It is used to protect the children.

I do not know of anywhere in the United States that has a law against adultery. Perhaps you could enlighten me please?

I'll give you perjury.

I love Chuck's columns
Especially since they are posted on WorldNetDaily, one of the most revered news organizations in the world.

But he may have exaggerated that coin thing.

Just check it out for fun.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

Chacala #18
Wow, your comments are funny. Yeah, you are probably right. The entire building was constructed by illegal aliens.

Probably couldn't speak any Anglais.

Ha,ha.

Historical Revisionism
The way to change any society is to change the public's perception of truth by removing their knowledge of their history. Our Godly Christian heritage has been removed from our education is every way possible. Unless a person is over 100 years old, he will have been taught an increasingly revised version of our true history. Every effort to remove God from our original founding is having its fullest effect now on the people. None of us has been educated in truth coming from original documents. We have been taught what liberal educators in the name of progressive education have decided should be taught and those of us who have not knowledge of truth because of our own ignorance of truth have just allowed it to deterioriate until now lies are seen as truth.
People are doing whatever they see as right in their own eyes instead of humbly following the tenets of our Judaeo-Christian heritage. No politician can change the hearts of the people. The only hope we have is a return to truth and a real change in the proud hearts of Americans. Only God can perform this change.
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