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Monday, May 26, 2008
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Where is God in Wartime?
by Chuck Colson
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Where is God amidst the horrors of war? How do soldiers keep their faith in God’s goodness amidst the suffering and slaughter of battle?

American soldiers and sailors, airmen and Marines have asked questions like these ever since the War for Independence. The questions occupy their thoughts and find their way from faraway battlefields into letters to loved ones.

Journalist Andrew Carroll has collected many of these letters in a book entitled Grace Under Fire: Letters of Faith in Times of War. Among them is a note from Private Walter Bromwich, who questioned God’s role in the slaughter of World War I.

“How can there be fairness in one man being maimed for life, suffering agonies, and another killed instantaneously, while I get out of it safe?” Bromwich asked his pastor back in Pennsylvania. “What I would like to believe,” Bromwich wrote, “is that God is in this war, not as a spectator, but backing up everything that is good in us. I don’t know whether God goes forth with armies, but I do know that He is in lots of our men or they would not do what they do.”

Other soldiers worried about their public witness more than their personal safety. In 1943, Private First Class William Kiessel, who was about to take part in the invasion into France, wrote to friends that he did not want prayer for his safety, because “safety isn’t the ultimate goal. True exemplary conduct is.” And he added, “What is important is that whatever does happen to me I will do absolutely nothing that will shame my character or my God.”

Where is God in the midst of war? Lieutenant Colonel Scott Barnes, a doctor who treated hundreds of wounded patients in Iraq, offered an answer to that question in an email home to family and friends.

“Some of my colleagues have wondered out loud,” he wrote, “how there can be a God with all of this suffering. I just remind them that He might just be right in some of our hands and working right beside us.

“Where is God? He is in the O.R. guiding the hands of the surgeons, He is in the will of the sergeants helping organize a blood drive as only they can, He is in the hearts of the soldiers who immediately rolled up their sleeves to give what they had to save a dying brother whom they don’t even know”—or even a captured enemy.

Letters like these renewed Carroll’s own faith in God. “They showed me that even in the bleakest of circumstances, with God’s help, we can overcome all adversity,” Carroll writes. “Through Him, we can endure any hardship. Because of Him, we are never alone.”

Where is Christ during the horrors of war today? He’s on the Cross.

On this day, Memorial Day, I want to send a personal message to our servicemen around the world: We at home are deeply grateful to you and we are proud of your service to our nation and our God as you defend the innocent. And I encourage you to remember the words found in Deuteronomy: “Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified . . . for the Lord your God goes with you, he will never leave you nor forsake you.”

May God bless and keep you, and protect you and your families.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Where is God in War?
to me he is there. He allows wars and suffering for man choses them. War is so horrible that man should have learned a way to settle his hatreds and consuming lusts for domination of others but man is flawed with sin and God has given man free will. Also God has set in motion the law that man will reap what he sows.

Therefore where ever Christians are, God's children, God is also. He does enforce the good in us, even in the midst of the horrors of Battle because he has made a promise to all his Children; "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28. If you have never come to the point of repentance, true repentance, which will bring you to accepting Christ as your Saviour and LORD, you have no place in this promise. So today I offer you the choice, Christ or the world. There is no other.

A Christian,

Ralph E. Zecco
Ezekiel 33:14-15; Matthew 3:7-8;John 3:15-18, 36; Romans 10:9-10

Patriotic or idiotic?
Faith in god is belief in things without evidence. The US and UK invaded Iraq on the basis of no reliable evidence and courageous men and women have lost their lives as a result of that pig-headed stupidity. Even more disgustingly this column claims that servicepeople are fighting for 'our god', the patronising appeal of countless generals in countless wars.

"Where is Christ during the horrors of war today? He’s on the Cross."

Is death the solution then?

Stuart

where is god
in wartime... trying to find a place to hide.

Where?
Mr. Colson,

You answer the question, "Where is Christ during the horrors of war today? He's on the cross."

I prefer to think that an empty grave is evidence of where the risen Savior is. The same place that awaits all those who embrace and profess a faith in Him - casualties of war or not.

Chuck
Very nice thank you

Stu
Put it away for at least a day. These women and men joined to serve their friends and neighbors, they have NO say on how they are used.

All soldiers know they can be sent in harms way. My only plea was that national leadership and the natiion not sell our life cheaply. Don't attack the soldier...

raoul
Oh I want them to talk of service and debt to the troops and remember our fallen. Better this than Novak abd Burt ignoring the day

War is the Abscence of God
How obscence to link war and God. Of course God is on our side right?

When Muslim warriors go to battle they too invoke God. Does God not hear them? Or does he only hear Christian American Soliders?

This article allows us to use God to perpetuate war. When actually war is a failure to heed God's love. To ask him for guidance so we can kill people he created.

When we go to war we should asking forgiveness from God not his encouragement..


stedes
"...When we go to war we should asking forgiveness from God not his encouragement.."

Amen to that what these chicken hawks fail to realise is that war equals failure, the price is the mangled bodies of our friends and neighbors.

Nine out of 10
of these responses think that God is a member of the Democrat party, and are SO virtuous in their beliefs! The fools who wrote the hate mail here think that God is not with neocons (whatever they are; I think that is the Socialist/Communist name for anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with THEM) when he is with all of us, even YOU, Mr. Oh-So-Glib. Get God into your heart and quit trying to put him into a box!!


Colson has it exactly right; God is with each of us who will let Him be with us.

Nine out of 11
Chuck and TheHistorian are correct - with God in your heart, the tough answers are just a simply question away.

Thanks again Mr. Colson for a super article and it's a shame the short-sighted readers of your article can't see that.

Obama and Unity
Obama I have a project for you.

Why don't you schedule a little set down meeting with the Nation of Islam, the Black Seperatist Movement and the KKK and American Nazi Party and have an intelligent talk with them about unity and becoming partners.

Obama you could present a Powerpoint presentation of the common goals of each group and then tell them how they could work in harmony together.

We will breathlessly await to hear your report and the progress you are making.

Mentor Wright and David Duke could be your moderators.

War and the Gods and Goddesses
Morning all,

To me, war for whatever reason will always be with us. My Prayers to the Gods and Goddesses is they give strength to those that must fight in our behalf, to do what is right because it is right. Lessen the pain of the love one's that have lost a family member to war. To help the victims of the war in their countries to have hope, strength and courage to continue on in the face of such violence in their lives.

People of all Faith should come together to seek peace where is can be found and to fight those that would harm others for religious, political and/or belief systems.

In all things, be well, safe and blessed.

Aubrey Jack Young

raoul
Full disclosure--I'm not a veteran either.

So does that mean I shouldn't be allowed an opinion regarding things military? Why don't we carry it a step further, and say that only COMBAT veterans should be able to express their thoughts on war? (All of you guys who served in peacetime, or never left stateside can shut the h**l up). I believe that would eliminate most of the members of Congress.

Hey, maybe we should say that anybody who doesn't attend church/synagogue/mosque shouldn't be allowed to expound on God.

always
God is always with you, all you have to do is look.

Good thoughts Chuck
And the intent of the article makes us all who read it
(some offer up their bilge)
think about this issue of where is God in a War.
Chuck writes:
"Where is Christ during the horrors of war today? He’s on the Cross."

My only thought is, why freeze Him in time, and say He is still on the Cross?

He is victorious over the sins that placed Him there, and lives in Victory over sin, hell the grave and this world.

Nothing in this article to offend any person alive, but we see the same gutter snipes here offering up bilge.



But because they are filled with the filth of their own hearts and minds, they show up on any thread that mentions God, to belch out their disgusting filthy thoughts.
Like you do Stu, and do it constantly.

To a filthy, low class minded person, nothing is sacred or holy, or honorable.

Let it go for one day, moron.

No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.” —Calvin Coolidge

Jesus Christ has given His Life and His blood for all men.
Just as so many Veterans have given their life for all the rest of us.
(and stu gives us his bilge)

“In November 1776, after Washington had lost four battles and just before he crossed the Delaware to Trenton, British commanders offered a pardon to all who would swear allegiance to the crown. It was time to put up or shut up. I can hope I would have remained steadfast then, resolute in confidence that neither I nor my family would ever again sing ‘God Save the King.’ I didn’t have to make that choice. Thousands of men and women who went before us did, and thank God for every one of them.” —Suzanne Fields









Another question
Very thought provoking and serious question on an important holiday. But let's try another question: Why is it that in an overwhelmingly Christian nation the Just War concept-- held by most denominations in America-- has been flushed down the drain like tainted Holy Water?

stu asks
If God is on the Cross, is death the solution? The Bible says yes, the death of Christ, and his shed blood are the solution. Christ though is not on the cross, he has surpassed that, conquered death, and lives to intercede. His death is the solution to our sin problem.

The Lord is a God of War
When war comes against Him from any person who tries to stop God in His Plan.

Ex 13:17 -
And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt.

1Ch 5:22 -
For there fell down many slain, because the war was of God. And they dwelt in their steads until the captivity.

There is a time for War, and God will always win the Battle against the people who try and prevent His Will for the people of God.

He who rules the Nations will fight and Inspire in Battle.

No man can sit down and withhold his hands from the warfare against wrong and get peace from his acquiescence.” —Woodrow Wilson



Royinoslo
Good question, but I'm not too sure about the premise on two counts.

One, I'm not sure that the description of the U.S. as an "overwhelmingly Christian nation" is accurate. I guess it is if you mean Christian by tradition (i.e., Christmas is a national holiday) or Christian by default (i.e., we're not predominantly Jewish or Buddhist so we must be Christian).

But if by overwhelmingly Christian you mean that most Americans know and follow the teachings of the Bible, that's probably a reach.

Second, I don't know that the concept of a Just War has disappeared, it's just become muddied. On Sept. 12, 2001 I think you would have found a lot of Americans who bought into the idea. In fact, if I recall one of the gripes against Bush from Sept. to October of that year, when we moved into Afghanistan, was "why doesn't he get off his a** and do something NOW?!"


Psalm 91
.

raoul
Chuck Colson served in the Marine Corps from 1953-1955. So now you can refuse to listen to him for no good reason at all.

Greater love hath no man
than to give up his life for his friends.

A Pennsylvania soldier who jumped on a grenade in Iraq to save the lives of his comrades at the cost of his own will be awarded the Medal of Honor.
The nation's highest military honor will be given to 19-year-old Army Pfc. Ross McGinnis of Knox, Pa., on June 2, the White House said Friday.
~http://www.marinij.com/national/ci_9358864

Tribute to Vetrans
my blog.

Great Column
Faith is what has provided strength for soldiers ever since the days when wars were fought with copper weapons.

Where is God in War?
Jesus is on the throne at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit is on earth in every believer. God does have control of His Universe but the daily control He has delegated to us His kids. What we allow, He allows and vice-versa. We exercise that autority by speaking His Word in every situation. When a soldier is in the battlefield, he can dispatch his angels to surround and protect him and his friends. The commanding power was given to us since the Lord Jesus finished the work. The Father expects us to use the authority of HIs Son's Name, His Word and the Blood to stand the ground of victory Jesus obtained for us. That is the fight we are called to fight, the fight of faith.... to keep and enforce the victory so Jesus can come back with us having made His enemies His footstool. To do less is tantamount to Adam's abrogation of delegated authority. The Holy Spirit will not do it for us nor do it Himself. That is our commission.

Stu
Stuart Cohen provided the evidence; he was in charge of the CIA's intelligence on Iraq.

Chuck
God is in the same place, that any parent would be, when their directives have been ignored.How did I create this mistake(MAN).God gave man one major commandment:"Love one Another".Why did he use the word "Another",when he could have used "Each Other"?Americans who call themselves Christians, should be ashamed to do so,based on their ignorance of God.But,let's face it,honesty has never been man's strong suit.SORRY...Bless you Chuck!!

Have you read the Bible?
To the naysayers and negative responders I can only ask, "Have you read and studied the Bible yourself?" If not, please sit down and read it, with an open mind to really understand the overall message. War and killing have been around ever since Cain killed Abel in the earliest days of mankind. Why? Because man chose to rebel against God. We are, by our fallen nature, in rebellion against God. Yet God, in His mercy, offered a Way of redemption. The Bible, both old and new testaments, is truly amazing. I'm blessed many times over every time I read it. God's grace is so good. In spite of war, God is there, working in the hearts of people to bring about His purposes for each person, both believers and non-believers.

Just War Concept
The just war concept was abandoned long ago, at least as long ago as the 1840's.

Were they really fighting for the iraq?
Mr Colson,
Christianity has no national boundaries, it's bigger than ideologies and political parties. It is so sad that Christian leaders in America put nation before Christianity. We should be the salt or the light of the world. At a time when many innocent people have died in Iraq. Both brave American soldiers and poor Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with this world. The question is do our leaders listen to God before going to war? Is this war justified? I expect people like you who have infleunce over political leaders and also a long reach around the world with prison fellowship. Should be telling the political leaders about the disastrous consequences that can happen when they don't listen to God. Do you really think this war benefits America Mr Colson? Back in my home countryI had so much respect for you because of the Prison felowship. But I am dissappointed that you like many Christian leaders are trying to justify this war that was a lie and has caused many deaths. I appreciate how Americans love their country and their brave soldiers. But we must be honest as Christians to admit when wrong is done to both this soldiers ( sending to harm's way for a lie and selfish reasons). We need to also understand that Christianity has not national boundaries. it is not like God is on America's side against these Moslem whom we want to reach with His message of love and forgiveness in Christ. PLEASE CAN AMERTICAN CHRISTIAN LEADERS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PATRIOTISM AND PASSION FOR GOD?

Efi

efiw@bornagain.com

Is nothing worth fighting for?
“No man can sit down and withhold his hands from the warfare against wrong and get peace from his acquiescence.” —Woodrow Wilson

Thanks Veterans
“A real star is the soldier of the 4th Infantry Division who poked his head into a hole on a farm near Tikrit, Iraq. He could have been met by a bomb or a hail of AK-47 bullets. Instead, he faced an abject Saddam Hussein and the gratitude of all of the decent people of the world. A real star is the U.S. soldier who was sent to disarm a bomb next to a road north of Baghdad. He approached it, and the bomb went off and killed him. A real star, the kind who haunts my memory night and day, is the U.S. soldier in Baghdad who saw a little girl playing with a piece of unexploded ordnance on a street near where he was guarding a station. He pushed her aside and threw himself on it just as it exploded. He left a family desolate in California and a little girl alive in Baghdad. The stars who deserve media attention are not the ones who have lavish weddings on TV but the ones who patrol the streets of Mosul even after two of their buddies were murdered and their bodies battered and stripped for the sin of trying to protect Iraqis from terrorists. We put couples with incomes of $100 million a year on the covers of our magazines. The noncoms and officers who barely scrape by on military pay but stand on guard in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and in submarines and near the Arctic Circle are anonymous as they live and die.” —Ben Stein

Looking for insights
With apologies to my unreconstructed Confederate friends--

I just re-read Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural speech and Gettyburg Address. Pretty profound, and germaine to the topic at hand (at least more so than "Bush lied, people died").

I bring them up because they probably haven't been mentioned in public schools for the last 25 years or so.

For those interested in one Christian's perspective, I might also recommend C.S. Lewis' essay "Why I am not a Pacifist."

My own take--from a Biblical perspective, I notice that John the Baptist never exhorted the soldiers who came to him to quit soldiering...

And Efi...policy discussions aside, would it have been the "Christian" thing to do to leave Saddam Hussein & sons in power to rape & murder their own people and threaten the nations around them?

A time for War
2Sa 22:30 -
For by thee I have run through a troop: by my God have I leaped over a wall.

Ps 18:29 -
For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.

Ps 144:1 -
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Abraham Lincoln

War is a part of our fallen state...
I saw a bumper sticker ouside of Whole Foods (naturally) the other day...

"What if the Air Force had to hold a bake sale to buy a new bomber?"

I thought, yeah that would be great...it would be even better if we didn't need an Air Force at all. Unfortunately, that day is a long way off, as in "end of history."

Most posters
have expressed a lot of wisdom today, thanks and amen.
Mrs. Paddy Have you read the book Psalm 91?
The first half is a break down of the psalm and the last is testimonies going back decades where
this psalm has been prayed for warriors in harms way by family, friends and churches, up to and including Afghanistan and Iraq. Our family has a personal testimony regarding that, we have seen the evidence of faith ourselves.

Talent Scout, I really appreciate your wisdom
It seems whenever you post something about faith, it's a Bible lesson. Thanks

Did anyone see John Scott's documentary about Grep Palcott (sic) story when he was embedded in Fallujah with India Co? We lost some of it due to storms so I hope its re run but it really
gave the human picture of what our marines have endured (and many of the innocent civilians at the hands of the torturing terrorists). It will bring tears to your eyes, and pride and gratitude for the wonderful patriots and heroes
we have. As long as we keep growing kids like this, we don't have to fear, we owe it to them
to stand and fight here against our domestic enemies.

Where is Allah in wartime?
Is there any rational reason to believe that Yahveh is calling the shots or otherwise on the throne? Or sitting by impotent or indifferent? Or "allowing" this, or "teaching" that? Or that poor dead Jesus is ultimately (but imminently...come lord Jesus come) going to show up to the rescue?

Or is it more likely the case that religious triumphalism continues to be the scourge it has been since its invention? And will continue to be? In its Christian form enduring for as long as Christianity can adapt to a messiah who never comes back. And in all cases doomed to massive disappointment and failure.

God in War?
St. Augustine dealt with the Just War idea centuries ago. Americans have realized for two centuries that many of our wars had noble causes and consequences as well as justifications and a few did not. Yet, as believers, Christians and some other religious traditions, think that God is within them. American Christians believe that Christ is within them as born again believers. They take Christ with them in good and bad times. There are certain wars in which evil was confronted by America, WWII of course comes to mind. The Cold War saw America best some of dictatorial communism. Not all; the PRC is still around as is an evil Castro and other dolts like the guy in Korea, North.Many believers and non believers died for our freedoms and victory over evil. Believers in Christ know he is NOT ON THE CROSS. He is alive and within and while war is never the best for humanity, 'if good men do nothing, nothing good will be done.' Liberals are always morally confused. There are some events in which God wants evil to be militarily confronted. Americans have often been used for that purpose. Thank God they have or the bloggers and posters here would not have the freedom to blurt out their appeasement baloney while they dis America!!!

Tea Party
Thank you for the kind words
"Talent Scout, I really appreciate your wisdom
It seems whenever you post something about faith, it's a Bible lesson. Thanks"
---
My reason to post is to strengthen faith, its our true source of strength, as long as we have this Faith in the Lord.
And I know there are many here like you who do place your Faith in Him.

By this Faith our Fathers won a Nation that has Honored the Lord, until these times, but most Americans still know this truth.

And have been set aside and shouted out of the public square by the ungodly and the reprobates of today that have been fashioned to think as the morons in hollywood or "entertainment" as well as government.

Having done all to Stand, we stand with this knowledge, God Rules in the Kingdom of men.
Regardless is they like it or not.
Or is they acknowledge Him or not.
Glad such as you are still hear and speaking out anyway.



correcting typo's


Having done all to Stand, we stand with this knowledge, God Rules in the Kingdom of men.
Regardless if they like it or not.
Or, if they acknowledge Him or not.
Glad such as you are still here, and speaking out anyway.

Gettysburg Hero, Little Round Top
Chucks question has been asked throughout our history, and more men died in the single Battle than any other before of since, Gettysburg.

Here is this same question, from a man of Faith, involved in the worst of it, and a Medal of Honor winner

Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

Major General Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Courtesy of the Library of Congress

"But we had with us, to keep and to care for, more than five hundred bruised bodies of men, - men made in the image of God, marred by the hand of man, and must we say in the name of God? And where is the reckoning for such things? And who is answerable? One might almost shrink from the sound of his own voice, which had launched into the palpitating air words of order - do we call it? - fraught with such ruin. Was it God's command we heard, or His forgiveness we must forever implore?"

Apostle Paul admonished all men to:

Ro 11:22 -
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Many today do not want to behold the severity of God, just His goodness.
And its just half of the truth of this world.

Unless we look at God's Severity, we will never learn the true fear of the Lord, who is a God of War as well as a God of Love and Forgiveness.

Thanks Veterans
I am in total agreement with this article(#35). Could this be? Is Angelina pregnant? Donald Trump fires another one. The 10 most wealthiest women in the world. Tours of the stars homes. Give me a break!! The men and women who serve our country should be on the covers of every magazine. They are the true stars. They are the true heroes. Let's give credit where credit is due. Thank you to all our veterans,and all who are serving. God be with those families who have lost loved ones. You are all in my prayers daily. "Greater love hath no man than this; that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13

myangel1983

In Our Midst!
__"Where is God amidst the horrors of war?" Right in the middle of the action with open arms. "How do soldiers keep their faith in God’s goodness amidst the suffering and slaughter of battle?" Armed with, and of the embrace of Gods open arms. As Lieutenant Colonel Scott Barnes stated, "He is in the O.R. guiding the hands of the surgeons, He is in the will of the sergeants..., He is in the hearts of the soldiers...," he is in the midst of friend, and foe alike. War, death, mutilation, and the cause of war, is not of Gods design, but of human design, of its intended purpose. Many people have fought, and died, have been maimed, in wars, not of their own choice, but in choosing to act of Gods love. A moment in time, during which their immediate actions protect, and save, the life of another. An act of Pure Love, during a moment in time, that which is without expaination in human vocabulary, but is explained of Gods embrace in the theater of war. God is there, and those that know it, also know what I'm talking about. AMEN, God Bless America

Expound Truth
If god is there then she is crazy, plain and simple. Maybe a poll of those who have seen the elephant would, shall we say, be "interesting"?

Where is God in time of war?
The empty Cross charaacteristic among Prostestant believers is highly significant. The message of Christianity is that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for everyone as an incredible gift from God in allowing His Son to give His life as the payment penalty for the sins of each and every one of us who admits our sinful nature and the need for forgiveness in preparation for spending eternity with Him in Heaven. The reason He is not on the Cross is because He has been resurrected from the dead thus overcoming the one major barrier between man and God in His victory over death. He is alive. After His resurrection He ascended into Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers to sustain them in every situation - including wars (which are further evidences of man's sinful nature). Having been resurrected from the dead explains why He is not still on the Cross, but very active in the hearts of those who accept Him as their Savior during our days on earth and preparing a place for us in Heaven for all eternity.

Ray

Where is God in time of war?
The empty Cross which is charaacteristic among Prostestant believers is highly significant. The message of Christianity is that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for everyone as an incredible gift from God in allowing His Son to give His life as the payment penalty for the sins of each and every one of us who admits our sinful nature and the need for forgiveness in preparation for spending eternity with Him in Heaven. The reason He is not on the Cross is because He has been resurrected from the dead thus overcoming the one major barrier between man and God in His victory over death. He is alive. After His resurrection He ascended into Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers to sustain them in every situation - including wars (which are further evidences of man's sinful nature). Having been resurrected from the dead explains why He is not still on the Cross, but very active in the hearts of those who accept Him as their Savior during our days on earth and preparing a place for us in Heaven for all eternity.

Ray

There are many atheist/agnostic
soldiers in the US armed forces, I know I'm one of them. In fact, if you look at the statistics there are more in the armed forces than the general population.

In other words, for many soldiers, god is totally absent. Be kind and respect them for what they are - soldiers fighting for liberty and freedom for ALL.


Hal
"Maybe a poll of those who have seen the elephant would, shall we say, be "interesting"?

I don't know offhand of any scientific polls, but I recall reading that during the Civil War (in 1864 I think) there was a religious "revival" of sorts among the troops, particularly in the Army of Northern Virginia.

Speaking just for myself, I think that if I was facing the possibility of death on a battlefield, all those old Sunday School lessons would start to seem pretty significant.

The Crazys are out

Just a heads up....Christ camp is only one month away! I bet yall are really foaming at the mouth. Maybe we can convince even more 10-16 year olds to go fight for Jaysus.

Those dang a-rabs

Bulldog74 thanks but Hal's a....
....lost cause. He's a wanna be, well read, arm chair quarterback. Probably, has seen the "elephant" in the room, and denies what he saw. It'll scare a liberal to no end, as they have no means, or background from which they can draw on. The possibility of death used to scare the heck out of me, until of my actions I faced it face to face. It was of my background, my life, my family, and Gods Love, that I am able to post on this site. It's an amazing realization of the power we all hold in or hands, but some never have the opportunity I had to see it. You learned of it in Sunday School, just as I did, but as we grew from childhood our choices of the world, for self, put temporary blinders on the lessons, and its truths. By the grace of God I was allowed the opportunity to Expound the Truth of God.

Thank, Bojangles...
...for your profound insights on a question that has dogged soldiers, poets and philosphers for centuries.


Bulldog74
Your welcome.

Excellent Meditation
I am glad to see Chuck Colson's excellent meditation. I wrote a letter to a "Peace Workgroup" of the Long Island Presbytery on the subject, and I also refer to Private Bromwich. My letter is posted at my townhall.com blog.

GOD
Unless you major in TV preachers you should know that GOD does not promise an easy life. He does promise to walk the whole way with us. Our politicians are the ones promising to provide cradle to grave protection. Protected even from evil words from bullies as in "bushitler". Now which bullies might that be. PLEASE NO FOUR LETTER WORDS

Tea Party
No, haven't read the book. I'll look for it. Sounds like a keeper. Thanks. Would love to hear your story. Stop by my blog sometime.

human limitations on God
The word of God, the bible, can be believed or torn to pieces as man places his faith or his limits on God.
War has thrust man by necessity to make leaps of invention. From hydrogen atom to stone axes to H-bombs, the theories of invention have produced our modern world in a very short time. Whether the universe is about 6,000 years old or 15 billion years old, the miracle of existence is awesome no matter how it was done.
Our existence is contrasts: light or dark, black or white, alive or dead, etc. However to argue God exists or does not exist, is alive or dead still infers there is God to argue.
The Holy Bible is written entirely by Jews. The last entries of Paul about 1931 years ago. Most of bible prophecy has come true after it was written. Putting our limitations on God is a mistake that only the final prophecies will prove. So believe or don't it is your choice. I thank God for Jesus Christ because even in war he brings me peace.

talent scout
>But because they are filled with the filth of their own hearts and minds, they show up on any thread that mentions God, to belch out their disgusting filthy thoughts. Like you do Stu, and do it constantly. To a filthy, low class minded person, nothing is sacred or holy, or honorable. Let it go for one day, moron.<

Thank you for those kind words talent scout. I love you too.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you … whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Stuart

Verbivore
>If God is on the Cross, is death the solution? The Bible says yes, the death of Christ, and his shed blood are the solution. Christ though is not on the cross, he has surpassed that, conquered death, and lives to intercede. His death is the solution to our sin problem. <

You are welcome to your death-cult. I hope it helps you with your 'sin problem'.

Stuart

God is
all good, kind, merciful and just. According to the bible, God is also vengeful, angry and jealous. In war, he is on everybody's side. To hear them tell it anyway.

I wish that any of this made sense to me but it doesn't.

dbz77
>Stuart Cohen provided the evidence; he was in charge of the CIA's intelligence on Iraq. <

Would you call it reliable evidence?

Stuart

#61-62 Stuart, whenever you attempt to
quote Scripture you show just how unwise you really are.

"Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you … whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

You have no idea what class of people Jesus was refering to, and in prior post, you misrepresent faith.

If you want to hate or berate Christians and Christianity, fine, but at least get yourself a basic education on what it is before you open your mouth and appear, yes, foolish.

But that would take effort and quite some time, wouldn't it?

"You are welcome to your death-cult."

Now that you have concluded that, will you hold to it and desist, or is it just a lie?





Why Christianity is not a death cult
Stuart, in order to understand the death of Christ on the cross, one must understand the theological principles behind it. God wanted to be able to forgive men's sin without going through the Old Testament sacrificial system to do so. He needed to accomplish a similar spiritual benefit in a similar demonstration that would never have to be repeated. He wanted to be able to forgive man's sin on the basis of repentance from sin and faith choice of God's life principle of divine love without allowing any aware being to have the right to see him as not properly hating evil. He needed to show that he is totally just, that he truly hates all selfishness because repentance and faith is a relatively easy basis for forgiveness. His reputation as a being of absolute holiness was at stake. Therefore, he decided to show his holy hatred of the principle of sin by allowing the sinless, incarnate God, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer the pangs of a horrible death as though he had actually been an evil person deserving such an end. Our sin was considered to be his for God's theological purpose. The kingdom of Heaven is governed by laws and so this was a legal thing designed to prove before all beings on earth and in heaven that God absolutely hates all sin by all sentient beings, even sin committed by a God who had become a man. He was saying in the cross that had the incarnate God actually sinned without repentance, God in his absolute holiness would have sent him to hell. He demonstrated that he plays no favorites where evil and its punishment are concerned. So the atonement made it possible for God to forgive man's sin on the basis of the new salvation covenant principles without thereby endangering the moral foundation of his Kingdom. And that is why it is possible for all those who perish in battle or otherwise and who are rightly related to God to have eternal life in heaven, Stuart.

So which god do you kill for?
Jesus, Allah, YHWH, Bush....yadda, yadda

stuart
No thought in your head. What stupidity. What a hypocrite. Your entire life as a an atheist is a complete contradiction. You are a fool. I've never met an atheist that can use reason or logic.

The missed point...
Missed by most that have posted, and proved by their comments that they did not actually read the article but leapt to their keyboards to trivialize and vilify Christ, God, and Christians, is that the beliefs held by a person sustain that person in times of great travail, war being among the greatest challenges one can encounter, and God being at the core of many folks heart-felt believing.

God is not a God of war in this administration of grace. The resurrection of Jesus Christ has made life everlasting available to all whom would believe, and God stands with the individual believer. The circumstances of our lives tend to shake our confidence, weakening our ability to believe in and receive the blessings of God. Isn’t war the greatest test of our resolve? Isn’t it true that when confronted by the face of death that we must draw upon every fiber of our believing to prevail?

No Christian soldier kills for God. Soldiers do what is needed to accomplish the mission. I think the conduct of the US soldier is generally morally exemplary. It is not that behavior that makes the headline news, though... is it? A shame, really.

Thanks for a pleasant observation, a good article, Chuck.



Ignorance Magnified
Colson and most of the posters on this thread HAVE NO CLUE as to what Scripture says and are blind as bats. The ignorance, mythology and fairy tale theology is stunning.

For those of you scribes and pharisees displaying your ignorance on this foolish article Matthew 23, sit down, quit parroting your blasphemous pastors and clergy and read the Bible at the end of your own finger for crying out loud. Most of you Christians are no more closer to the God of the Bible than Osama is to the Allah of his Quran.

Answer for yourself what Christ means when he said "Love your enemies" and "Resist not evil". Go ahead, show yourself approved and quit despising the Word of God.

Out of your own mouth you will be judged.

What a fool....
"Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you … whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

What kind of fool would read the WHOLE verse of Matthew 5:22 and spout such utter nonsense?

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

So let me get this straight - I can be angry with a brother and receive judgement....call a brother RACA which is the ultimate insult and be brought in front of a counsel for a slap on the wrist, but call someone a fool (even though Christ Himself called the fools of his day "fools") and be eternally tortured in fire...

Have you thought this through Stuey? Or are you just pulling a verse out and parroting your pastor.

Put your finger over a match for 3 seconds, spend the next five minutes trying to contemplate ETERNITY then tell us just how loving, wonderful and just the god you serve really is.

it is troubling that so many "c"hristians fall for this garbage. There is no difference in serving a god that tortures grandmas, grandpas, pregnant women and children in fire for ETERNITY (hundred of billions of trillions of zillions of years on and on and on) for not "believing" in the correct one of 32,000 + denominations and doctrines in the USA and serving a god who promises 72 virgins if you kill and maim in his name.

Your blind pastors are deceiving you and until you read Scripture from the end of your own finger you are no better than Osama bin Laden.


There are no atheists in foxholes...

Only soldiers who have been trained to ignore their fear of death.

Pharoah doesn't get it.
You think God wants you in hellfire? No, it's His wish that none would perish. But He respects your gift of free-will so much that, in the end, He will say "Let your will be done" to spend eternity in a place totally devoid of God. Perhaps only then will you realize that every good, every noble, every beautiful thing is of God.

And it doesn't matter if there are even 32,000 errant views of God, as even that many lies do not negate a single truth. Thomas Edison was once queried, after a 1,000 failed attempts at making a light bulb, whether he considered his efforts a waste of time. He replied 'no', in that he now knew a 1,000 ways NOT to make a light bulb. His faith that there was a truth to be discovered of a practical way is what illuminated the world. What makes one an atheist is they are too easliy discouraged by the lies of this world.

Where is God in Wartime?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why he is in our hearts, with the front line troops, in the Trauma wards and OR's. With the Medic, the Chaplin and the Corpesman. He is everywhere he has always been in times of war.
With the fighting men and women, their families and loved ones.
He is also on his thrown weeping betterly for such useless tradgic loses of life.
Man creates war not God or Faith. Just Man and his stupidity.
My prayers, hopes are with my fellow veterans in arms and their families. May all be reunited soon in Peace.

Where is God????????????
Mr Colson, and so many of you fellow posters or bloggers. I've read many of your responses to the question asked of us, so many have responded with how Jesus was on the Cross for our salvation and is now not.
Have spouted scripture and verse.
Yet none of you have answered the question of Where is God in Wartime?, why, it is an easy question with an even easier response.
He is everywhere, with those in suffering and pain. With those in need of comfort and guidence. He is in our hearts and prayers.
If you do not know this then, maybe you do not know Christ or his father our God. The God with no Name, but God.

Jesus says you are a fool
Not me, I believe Jesus.
And not you, but here you are again, as the fool you are to teach the bible, a book you have shown nothing but scorn for, and is why you are indeed a fool.

If God has identified an atheist as a fool, thats because that is what he is.

Ps 14:1 -
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Jesus Christ verify's the identity of a fool.
Lu 24:25 -
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
-------
Stu quotes me:



Subject: talent scout
"But because they are filled with the filth of their own hearts and minds, they show up on any thread that mentions God, to belch out their disgusting filthy thoughts. Like you do Stu, and do it constantly. To a filthy, low class minded person, nothing is sacred or holy, or honorable. Let it go for one day, moron."


Stu writes: - 5:59 AM EST
Thank you for those kind words talent scout. I love you too.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you … whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Stuart

------
ts:
Not only are you a fool Stu, but only a moron will try and teach the bible when he does not believe a word of it to a man who does believe the bible and read it for over forty years.


Who is a fool?
It has to be qualified, cause we are all fools in one respect or another.

Here Paul recommends being a fool, a fool for Christ.
1Co 3:18 -
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

The Judgment of who God says is a fool has already been made.

The person God has Judged to be a fool, is the one who says there is no God.

Jesus called all of us fools for being slow of heart to believe the Prophets.
A believer is not a fool, and is a brother.
This is who Jesus said to NOT call a fool.
A believer, a Brother.
He did not say to call a fool a fool one is in danger of hell.

There really are fools in the world, already Judged of God.
The FOOL is the person who says there is NO GOD.
One could say he was a moron as well and be accurate also.

Ps 14:1 -
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good

Now seeing as how we now know who a fool is according to God's Judgment, then all thats left is to identify ourselves who we are.


Proverbs 12:15 -
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Conservatives know where God is
Real conservatives know where God is. He's on our side, by definition. He guides our bullets and JDAMs to their targets, he inspires our leaders to formulate our strategy, he makes sure that we kill more of them than they do of us. He's on the side of Republicans and conservatives when they defeat Democrats and liberals. He inspires right-wing columnists and his anger at liberals is expressed in the venom of Ann Coulter. So, conservatives, clearly you know where God is, and who God is. Among other things, he's a charter member of the Federalist Society, and doubtless belongs to the League of the South as well.

A fool, the denier of God
Is NOT my brother.
My brother is one who is part of the Family of God, and God has no fools that do not believe in Him.

If I called a believing BROTHER a fool, then I am in danger of hell myself.
They most certainly are NOT fools, because they are WISE men.

And if I would be so stupid to call my brother, a believer a fool, then I have joined the family of satan,who is the ACCUSER OF THE BRETHERN.

I do not intend to ever make such a mistake, God KEEPING me in a sane mind.


A mocker comes, and will be mocked
Himself
----


Gestell 11:37 AM EST
Subject: Conservatives know where God is
Real conservatives know where God is. He's on our side, by definition. He guides our bullets and JDAMs to their targets, he inspires our leaders to formulate our strategy, he makes sure that we kill more of them than they do of us. He's on the side of Republicans and conservatives when they defeat Democrats and liberals. He inspires right-wing columnists and his anger at liberals is expressed in the venom of Ann Coulter. So, conservatives, clearly you know where God is, and who God is. Among other things, he's a charter member of the Federalist Society, and doubtless belongs to the League of the South as well.

-----
You are an idiot

Whose side is God on...
when two Christian nations go to war against each other?

max

God is on no-one's side. We are called to be on his.

Takes study
Answer for yourself what Christ means when he said "Love your enemies" and "Resist not evil". Go ahead, show yourself approved and quit despising the Word of God.
----
ts:
Depends on the circumstance, as Jesus not only resisted evil in this situation, but in fact used violence against it.

Joh 2:14 -
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

Joh 2:15 -
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Then Jesus Himself taught that a Good Man would PROTECT his own HOME against evil.

Mt 24:43 -
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

NOT SUFFER
Not from a thief, who is evil, if he will obey the Lord and WATCH. The Goodman will not allow it.

Now Jesus did not resist the evil of the Law being abused, but submitted Himself to the abuse of that evil, as it attacked Him on a personal level.

Yet He defended Himself by telling the TRUTH to Pilate.

When Jesus spoke of "resist not evil" He was speaking in terms of personal matters when the individual is the one attacked by evil.

Yet if a thief comes to rob you of your substance, you are a wimp if you will not stop the thief, or the robber.

When Jesus taught to turn the other cheek, He was speaking about REVENGE, and not to take revenge, as Vengeance belongs to God.
Let the LAW take vengeance if you are assaulted.
He never said an eye for an eye was wrong, but just if you do it, without due process of Law.
And act like a vigilante.








On God's side
Very well said Rich D

What hypocrisy!

And Efi...policy discussions aside, would it have been the "Christian" thing to do to leave Saddam Hussein & sons in power to rape & murder their own people and threaten the nations around them?

Bulldog
Thanks for your question. Is it right for the US to go into Iraq and kill thousands of people to free them from Saddam and his son? I do think this is hypocrisy. The went there for the oil for geopolitical reasons. You Americans need to dig deeper and know if some of the things your gov't is doing in their foriegn policy is right and can be supported by Christians. Is it not thesame gov't that supported Savimbi in Angola where he killed thousands of people? Was Savimbi not received and supported by Jonas Savimbi. Did Charlie Black not work for him. Where were you when those people were killed and maimed by landmines? What about support for Mumbotu and the killing of Patrice Lumumba? What about support of dictators in Latin America? The great Nelson Mandela who fought to liberate his people from apparthied is in record in your congress as a terrorist. What hypocrisy! I just think the US is working to further their national interest even if it means eliminating people and many nations do that. That does not mean that it is Christian and we Christian should not support such a thing. We Christians should not let politicians make a fool of us and our belief. Christians are now seen in the US as a base of the GOP. Considering what their foriegn policy is how can you support these things whole heartedly and still preach the goodnews of salvation in Christ. You need to take a look and the "family jewels" of the CIA and you will understand what I am talking about. These are intelligence and misdeeds of the CIA that was made public. aS A Christian I can't stand the evil done in foriegn land! But I know these things are good for the US as a nation.

Efi
It's a LIE that the war was a lie. Knock that crap off and start being fair.

Rich D.
>Stuart, whenever you attempt to quote Scripture you show just how unwise you really are.<

That is the first time I have quoted scripture here! What’s with the ‘whenever’?

Stu: "Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you … whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

>You have no idea what class of people Jesus was refering to, and in prior post, you misrepresent faith.<

Jesus was speaking to his disciples and the language could not be clearer: this is the message to pass on. Those disciples are ‘representative’ of all who hope to follow the word of Jesus, aren’t they? So what ‘class of people’ is this addressing? If not you, then you must be a strange species of christian.

>If you want to hate or berate Christians and Christianity, fine, <

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

… I am causing blessings to fall on you. And not a word of thanks, just ‘fool’!

Stu: "You are welcome to your death-cult."

>Now that you have concluded that, will you hold to it and desist, or is it just a lie?<

Well christianity is a cult by the definition of my Oxford Concise Dictionary and its doctrine necessitates at least one death. Why would you not call it a death cult? Should I not take some responsibility for pointing that out?

Stuart

ColinCody
Re: your #65

Thank you for your explanation. I don’t think you have really make a convincing case for not calling christianity a death cult. You do stir up some interesting questions though. Just taking scripture at its face value without adding reams of apologist reinterpretation, the Judeo-christian god’s attempts to do away with sin have broadly consisted of:

Banishing the first two humans from ‘paradise’ and punishing snakes;
Killing or ordering the killing of between 2,300,000 and 32,000,000 people including one case of flooding the entire earth, taking out the innocent and all animals, which christians so often claim to be innocent too (see the discussions here on gay marriage);
And, depending on whether you are a trinitarian or not, having himself judicially killed because humans broke the rules he invented.

People clearly believe we still have sin.

Obviously ‘he’ is not omnipotent if erasure of sin is his goal. Giving people ‘freedom to choose’ will not achieve that objective, or at least has failed in the last few thousand years. So what competence can you claim for this deity, and why is killing so much a feature of ‘his’ ‘love’? Death cult seems the obvious label.

Stuart

Schizophrenia Reigns!
I applaud the moral and ethical teachings of the church...and I consistently join with my religions brethren to advance those causes. I also understand man-kinds insatiable yearning for something "supernatural" and more "noble" to sustain him in adversity...but the concept of a Supreme Being is base schizophrenia [see various Internet resource for the clinical criteria]. As many of these posts illustrate casting the slightest doubts on the concept brings the devout out in the "full of howl" of frenzied unintelligible tongues.

Jim-Too

Where is God in war?
Clearing up some misunderstandings.

Colson is talking about the God of the Bible. Please recognize that the God of the Bible is a 3-part deity -- the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. We use the one term, God, when referring to any or all three and it should be noted that they are always 3 in 1. They are not seperate gods, but one God with three functions -- sort of how the fingers of my hand are individual with function, but all are part of the hand.

Therefore, Muslims are not invoking God when they commit their activities to "Allah". Allah is not a member of the God of the Bible. Muslims further considered Jesus to be a mere prophet, not a god of any sort. So, contrary to what your western civ teacher tried to teach you, Christians, Muslims and Jews do NOT worship the same God. Muslims say they worship the Biblical God, but they change what the Bible teaches about that God, so they are mistaken in their claim. Jews worship the same God as Christians, but they fail to truly understand God's complexity -- until they do, when they become messianic Jews, worshipping Jesus as God (as the original and Jewish Christians did).

When Christian nations go to war
There a couple of ways to handle the question of which side God picks when two Christian nations go to war with each other. One is to reject out of hand (and there are good biblical grounds for this) the very idea of a "Christian" nation in the first place. The most that could be said is that there are nations, the majority of whose populations call themselves Christian. If you take this option, then God picks the country that is REALLY more Christian than its enemy. This means that all of the victors are Christians.

Another way to handle this is just to assert (and I think this is a real leap of faith, as some Christians call it) that your own side is obviously the one favored by God. In this case, God becomes a sort of tribal/national deity, and the universalism of Christianity is rejected, at least tacitly. Historically, this comes close to being the standard American view.


God resides with the individual
We actually had this conversation yesterday sitting around the patio at the home of a retired soldier. Paul joined the Army in peacetime and never thought he'd go to war until 911. He was slated to retire just months after 911 and was able to do so. As a supply sargeant, he would never have been an active combat soldier, but he's asked himself some tough questions about military service during time of war for a Christian. He's also in email contact with many friends who are currently "in the Box" and who face those questions daily.

God doesn't start wars and I don't think He's on a "side" in most cases. He resides with the individual soldiers who are Christians. I don't think He protects them from wounds or death. Most Christians just aren't that important to the cause of Christ that God needs to step in to human history on that level. How God resides with them is in their behavior and attitudes as they live through war. As Colson shared, many Christian soldiers pray that they will be good examples of their God more than that God will protect them from injury. God goes with them in their job in much the same way He goes with any stateside civilian Christian in their job. His principles inform our attitudes and work ethic and our whole reason for being there. I'll post again to finish this.

A story from "the Box"
Paul told us a story yesterday about a buddy who is a non-Christian in a unit with a Christian. He is impressed by this Christian because the guy prays with the wounded and dying combatants. He has had the translator teach him just enough Arabic to say "Jesus is God. Trust in Jesus as your Savior." Last week, this friend of Paul's noted one of the dying saying something in response to the Christian's prayer and asked the translator to translate. The translator said the dying man was mumbling "Jesus is God. I trust Jesus as Savior." He died a few minutes later and went home to be with his newfound Lord.

This is how God goes into a war zone -- any war zone. He travels with individual Christians, who either allow Him to work through them or not. When they allow Him to work, He changes lives for the better on both sides of the conflict.

We need to set aside the notion that this -- or most other wars for that matter -- are Godly wars. No, they're just wars. But God's people can bring God's message into the war and thus produce Godly results in the middle of a human-caused mess.

1+1+1 = 1 Aurora?
You talk about different religions worshipping different dieties...well you fabled trinity is a greek pagan myth adopted by early christians. Look it up for yourself and bury that false god with the other doctrines of Baal your church teaches.

Show me one - just one Scripture that attests to 3 co-equal and co-eternal gods in different substance or form or whatever nonsense they try to explain away. You cannot without twisting, bedning or adopting spurrious verses inserted in the dark ages (john 5:7 specifically).

Scripture tells us very clearly who God is, who Christ is and WHAT God Spirit is. Not one of your hero rock star pastors or theologins can explaion this trinity fable without ending - well god is too complicated adn magnificant for us puny little humans to understand..."

Ptoooey!

Talent Scout....
Study for yourself - admit your are BLIND as a BAT and perhaps God will show mercy and give you SIGHT because you know not what you type. nice opinion but dead wrong and very carnal.

Show me Scripture that tells us Jesus says an eye for an eye is okay......

Show me how "Love thy neighbor" is supposed to be put into context....

Tell me what Christ meant by "live by the sword, die by the sword".....

Do you think for a moment Christ was talking about your physical house when he said keep watch? Are you that carnal? Have you also gouged out your eye and cut off your hand that causes sin?

Oh, I forget - you decide what is literal and what is not literal based on your own interpretation of the Bible determined from your pastor.

And then your pastor makes you pay for your ignorance by way a garbage money-grubbing scheme called a tithe while he builds mansions and monuments to his personal glory.

And you think the muslims are weird...?


christians......
When you are born into Gods family, where is your citezenship?

We are told to be ambassadors for Christ, right?

Think this stuff through folks and stand for God and His Word rather than worship your celebrity politicians, political parties and pastors.

ts
---If God has identified an atheist as a fool, thats because that is what he is…
A fool, the denier of God
Is NOT my brother---

I can see how you feel about the 19% of our armed forces who don’t believe in a god. It is a shame that they fight for your freedom when all you do is call them fools because they don’t believe in your silly superstition.

Honestly, you are scary. You sound exactly like the jihadist when they rant about what god wants them to do. It is this type of extreme delusional belief system that causes violence and subjugation of out-groups.

Moses and the original "Dealth Cult"!
What is Gods take on armed conflict and bloodshed? See Exodus 32! When God sent Moses down from the mountain with the Ten Commandment [ye "shall not kill“] Gods earthly emissary ordered 3000 of his own people killed. Why? They would not swear allegiance to the Mosaic God. Put every man his sword by his side, Moses ordered, and go from gate to gate in and out of the camp and slay every man his brother and every man his comrade, and every man his neighbor and the children of the Lord did accordingly so that there fell that day about three thousand [3000] people. God stood by and implicitly sanctioned the bloody slaughter.

Jim-Too

talent scout
>Jesus says you are a fool Not me, I believe Jesus Jesus Christ verify's the identity of a fool. Lu 24:25 -
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:.<

Is that the same Jesus who was quoted by Matthew as telling the disciples not to say ‘thou fool’ lest they become hell-bound? Is it the Jesus who is only definitely mentioned in the christian scripture and nowhere else with any certainty?

Stuart

talent scout
>And not you, but here you are again, as the fool you are to teach the bible, a book you have shown nothing but scorn for, and is why you are indeed a fool. If God has identified an atheist as a fool, thats because that is what he is. Ps 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.<

I think I could name many atheists who have certainly done good, who were not corrupt and whose work could not be said to be abominable. Frederick Delius, Richard Rogers, Douglas Adams, Issac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, Arthur Miller, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Salman Rushdie, Robert Louis Stevenson, Francis Crick, Paul Dirac, Richard Feynman, Peter Higgs, Ernst Mayr, Jonathan Miller, Desmond Morris, Linus Pauling, Oliver Sacks, Alan Turing, Steven Weinberg, Albert Einstein, Ricky Gervais, Lance Armstrong.

Just one name disproves the biblical claim. There are none in this list I would be brave enough to call foolish; they are clearly not that. Of course if you are smarter than all of them because your god has told you all the answers, then I’m sure we will all be amazed.

>Not only are you a fool Stu, but only a moron will try and teach the bible when he does not believe a word of it to a man who does believe the bible and read it for over forty years.<

I’m just reading what it says, and what it says is absurd. I think Saul of Tarsus wanted you to have to believe really ridiculous things in a kind of reverse-psychology deal. It would seem you have fallen for it. Fair play to you if you get off on calling people ‘moron’, but you have not justified it.

Stuart

Can the Iraq war be justified?
I just realized you signed the infamous Land letter authorizing the president to go to war. I think with all we know now, you guys need to come out and apologize for that unwise and ungodly decision.
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