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Friday, April 25, 2008
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
No Thanks: Italy and Abortion
by Chuck Colson
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In mid-April, Italian voters returned former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to power. Election post-mortems focused on what Berlusconi would do about the economy, crime, and Italy’s illegal immigration problem.

Just about the only thing that was not discussed was an issue that figured prominently in the campaign: abortion.

“Abortion to play a prominent role in Italian elections” was the headline of an Associated Press headline only two months ago. A contemporaneous New York Times story told readers that the abortion issue was at the “center of the Italian electoral campaign.”

And only a week before the Italian elections, the Los Angeles Times proclaimed that the “abortion issue [was] back” in Italy and Spain.

All of these stories described the mounting political and cultural challenges to the 1981 Italian law legalizing abortion. Now, Berlusconi’s spokeswoman on family issues proposes a new abortion law restricting abortion only to the first trimester—and then, only in “really justified cases.”

Then there is the case of Giuliano Ferrara, whom the New York Times says “combines the political theatrics of an Abbie Hoffman with the rhetorical flair of a William F. Buckley.” A former Communist, Ferrara now edits a conservative newspaper called Il Foglio, “the Sheet.”

Ferrara used his paper and talk show to advocate a moratorium on abortion and “to call attention to the value of life.” He then ran for Parliament on the “Abortion? No Thanks” slate.

This is not the first time Ferrara has bucked conventional secular wisdom. His paper has also supported the Catholic Church on matters like bioethics, relativism, and the decline of the Christian faith among Italians—this despite the fact that Ferrara is an atheist.

While Ferrara insists that he is a “nonbeliever,” other Italian politicians, as Britain’s New Statesman put it, “have been eagerly declaring their Christian credentials.” According to the publication, this eagerness is a response to what it calls the “crucial change” in Italian life since 2001: “the collapse of every grand political idea.”

Given this “crucial change” and the response to it, the failure to even mention abortion in the electoral post-mortems stands out. It reminds me of the Spanish government’s response to a pro-family rally last December in Madrid that drew a reported 2 million people. Instead of reconsidering its policies, the government demanded an apology from the Catholic Church.

Not surprising, I suppose, European elites cannot contemplate that secularism, like every other “grand political idea,” has been found wanting—without, at the same time, acknowledging what is for them unthinkable: Europe’s Christian roots.

Yet, what is happening in Italy and Spain, as well as the rest of Europe, suggests that many Europeans are now finding “grand political ideas” a poor substitute for faith. A strong Euro and generous government benefits are small consolations for societies, which the New York Times says are “steeped in death and decline.”

The remedy for that is respecting the value of life, which starts with saying “Secularism? No thanks.” Maybe the Italian elections give hope for Europe after all.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Politica Italiano (Italian Politics)

This story caught my eye because I live in southern Italy. I specify the south because there's a huge political and cultural difference between southern and northern Italy. Just Google “Lega Nord” (North League) for some insight. The riff predates Garibaldi, but the Lega Nord is a modern reflection of the current situation. But I digress.

I don’t get involved in Italian politics; however my Sicilian wife is another matter, so I’ll paraphrase her opinions. She’s a moderate and like most Sicilians, very perceptive.

The election had more to do with “generous government benefits” than any religious issue. She believes the subject of abortion was put out there by the Berlusconi campaign to garner support from undecided voters. She cites the fact that the Prodi (former Prime Minister) government was well on the way towards collapse prior to the abortion theme.

She says this is an old trick adopted by the “Democrazia Cristiana” party in the 70s. The reality of Italy is that most Catholics are similar to RINOs...CINOs if you will (my analogy). In public the Italians espouse Catholicism, but in reality the majority will opt for an abortion or get a divorce should the need arise. Both events are forbidden by the church.

Also, she has little respect for Giuliano Ferrara. She finds it interesting that his views did a one-eighty at the same time several years ago that he inexplicably decided to align his politics with “Forza Italia”…Berlusconi’s party. My wife points out that Ferrara and Berlusconi are both in the media business. The latter the equivalent of CEO and owner of all the major newspapers and television networks…literally!

At the end of the day in Italy, the abortion issue boils down to politics and back scratching.

INTHENOW
Why does your assessment ring more true than Mr. Colson's?

I share his sentiments, but starry-eyed and unrealistic optimism does a disservice to his readers and makes him look out of touch with reality. Like the Bible says, "If the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?" 1 Cor. 14:8

An atheist
Coming out in support of Christianity? I thought I had heard everything.

Maybe this man realizes that even though religious faith is not for him, society as a whole benefits from their belief in God.

Wise man. With a heart like this, God just may be able to reach him yet.

Nope
M Sederoff: "An atheist coming out in support of Christianity? I thought I had heard everything. Maybe this man realizes that even though religious faith is not for him, society as a whole benefits from their belief in God.
Wise man. With a heart like this, God just may be able to reach him yet."

He probably realizes that Christian sheeple are pliable and easily led, just like here.

Fortunately, these are Italians, who have gone through God-knows-how-many governments since WWII. It's like the old De Gaulle saying: "How do you rule a country that has 246 types of cheese?"

the Blacks in America
would do well to move to Italy. They have a fighting chance of survival there. In America, PP is trying to completely eliminate them through abortion. Just like their in step leader, Margaret Sanger, tried and hoped for...

Inthenow
I have doubts about how perceptive your wife is...after all she married you...Your wife is a moderate which means luke-warm which means she has no guts which means who cares about what her opinions are. 70% of Italain doctors refuse to perform abortion. Here:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080422192609.lcpkej 77&show_article=1
What does your perceptive wife have to say about that.

Hitting Rock Bottom
They say that the key turning point in dealing with a destructive addiction is when the addict "hits rock bottom"; i.e. when they sink to such a low point of misery and self disgust that they are rallied to change themselves.

Could it be that the Italian people have also hit rock bottom and realize that their love affair with socialism, nihilism, and self obsession is only leading them to extinction? Perhaps the burgeoning Muslim population, just chomping at the bit to pick up the pieces while Italians sink far below the replacement level in fertility, has had a clarifying effect?

Abortion has always really been about selfishness. A Nihilistic, narcissitic, self absorbed lifestyle that elevates to a "right" the desire to have sex with people you would never want to marry and have children with. It enables an immature lifestyle that avoids adult responsibilities. It literally kills off a future generation in order to prolong decadent pleasures in the present. What we are seeing is that no society can long endure such self destructive practices. Italy, and the rest of Western Europe, are literally commiting ethnic suicide with abortion, because it has cut their fertility levels to half of what is required just to maintain a static population. Their numbers are IMPLODING, and people are starting to wake up to that frightening fact.

Every culture on earth has looked
to abortificients, and when they were too dangerous or unavailable, people practiced such horrors as infanticide-a habit of the democratic Greeks of ancinet Athens and or Republican and imperial Rome, not low-life societies without a thought save mere pleasure or just survival.

I grew up in an era of "no abortion" to see people mutlilated under the illegal procedures; ergo, I would not try to ban all aborttion on all grounds. HOWEVER, the original intent of Roe was to limit legal abortion to the first trimester, and if that is the direction Italy is taking, their instincts are good.

Legislatures here should force the courts to recognize a first-trimester limit.

Today, a fifth-month fetus is capable of grasping a finger and blowing bubbles. I saw a sonogram of my grandson at 5 weeks, and he was clearly a human--with head, neck, arms, legs, hands, feet, and human proportions. Deliberately removing him from the womb would have been a familial disaster.

Congress had the guts at least to pass against the late-term murder of babies through partial-birth abortion, and they should have the morals and Constitutional fortitude to pass new legislation restricting abortion to the first three months of a pregnancy, exceptp under egregious circumstances, such as the death or permanent disability of the mother.

That was then
Then Hamas declared war on Rome and the Pope. I hope they are paying attention. An abortion debate can go on and on while Rome burns, so to speak.

please, signot inthe[k]now
Is Berlusconi then an Italian of the south? With a Sicilian wife to explain to us, and her husband not involved in Italian politics, we're left with just one other option: the Church.

I know Prodi was sooner or later out; but when has the Catholic Church been declared out ? By your "moderate" wife?

Please, Sir. Spare us the parlo italiano; abortion has been seen for what it really is, by rank and file Italians. SIN, and a license for Muslims to outdistance Italy's native population in the next 15 or 20 years. Precisely what Orianna Fallaci was vehemently decrying; though she also was an atheist and communist. Weren't many in Italy calling her insane? No; she was true to her Italian roots. So is Berlusconi. And we can trust the Church. Don't trust the Northern League.

Joisey; 11:24am
Excellent discription of the philosophy behind abortion.

Thank you!

John M Cain
Save your personal attacks and petty insults for someone who might engage your cheap ignorant tactics. You might have better luck at the Kos or HP. Your post is pathetic.

dreadnaught

“…but when has the Catholic Church been declared out ? By your "moderate" wife?”

Neither my wife nor I support abortion. She was simply stating some facts known to her and millions of other Italians. Contraception and abortion are both prohibited by the church, yet the Italian growth rate is negative. So we are either to believe that all good Catholics are not having abortions and abstaining from sex...or they say they’re good Catholics, but commit the occasional sin (abortion and contraception). She’s been here all her life, what are your credentials?

“Please, Sir. Spare us the parlo italiano; abortion has been seen for what it really is, by rank and file Italians.”

What is this? Where in my post did I insinuate we speak for the “rank and file”?



Get off it


I can cut and paste this just as often as "YOU" can keep hollering about something you have no business talking about.

===========

Will you people ever get it right?

Quit complaining about abortions, and complain about the real problem, pregnancies.

The way to stop abortion is for a lady who does not want a child, not to become pregnant, but you idiots never mention that.

And let’s punish the one at fault. The perpetrator of the pregnancy should be castrated, and before that operation, a short ceremony will determine that heads he gets an anesthetic, tails he doesn’t. That should solve the problem rapidity.

The only time a man (or I should say a male) should mention the word abortion is when the lady he impregnated wants one. The only time a female should mention the word abortion is when she wants one.

All the rest of you, SHUT UP.

And don’t tell me the lady is always at fault. The fact that she is a P-Teaser dressed in a mini with her boobies visible and bouncing all over, might mean she is available, but how many times is it the female who asked for the jump in bed, versus how many times is it the male who makes the request?

Get it right, stop taking about abortions, and not only talk, but take action on pregnancies.


Cali, you are a confused homosexual...
Caligula writes: Friday, April, 25, 2008 9:10 AM
Nope
M Sederoff: "An atheist coming out in support of Christianity? I thought I had heard everything. Maybe this man realizes that even though religious faith is not for him, society as a whole benefits from their belief in God.
Wise man. With a heart like this, God just may be able to reach him yet."

He probably realizes that Christian sheeple are pliable and easily led, just like here.

Fortunately, these are Italians, who have gone through God-knows-how-many governments since WWII. It's like the old De Gaulle saying: "How do you rule a country that has 246 types of cheese?"
__________________________________

Cali, you are a confused homosexual and your posting cannot be taKen seriously.

testing
testing

InTheNow @ 04:44 wrote
"The reality of Italy is that most Catholics are similar to RINOs...CINOs if you will (my analogy)".

Much like Canuck Catholics (as proven beyond any shred of reasonable doubt) in 1987, eh?

jim
"The way to stop abortion is for a lady who does not want a child, not to become pregnant, but you idiots never mention that."
-----------------
Is this a parody post or are you serious? It's argued all the time about trying to find ways to reduce the teen pregnancy rate. What do you think abstinance is intended to do?


"And let’s punish the one at fault. The perpetrator of the pregnancy should be castrated, and before that operation, a short ceremony will determine that heads he gets an anesthetic, tails he doesn’t. That should solve the problem rapidity."
----------
In the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies, the girl and boy are both at fault, not just the male.

"The only time a man (or I should say a male) should mention the word abortion is when the lady he impregnated wants one. The only time a female should mention the word abortion is when she wants one.

All the rest of you, SHUT UP.
---------
A 13 year old getting pregnant from her 16 year old boyfriend doesn't have a right to look to an older sibling, parent, grandparent or other mentor for advice? 13 year olds ususally cant' make a decicion on what clothes to wear, let alone about a life altering decision that will affect the rest of their life. The abortion rate could be reduced it people would simply be allowed to communicate a little bit more.

Underage abortions
Underage girls are CHILDREN. They should not be asking advice about abortions from their elders. They should be asking permission, and the decision should be made by their parents.

You know, like all of the other decisions about their lives.

Minors have no right to decide where they go to school, where or whether they go to church, when they go to bed, what to wear, whether or not to wear makeup, or even what to eat or what kind of toothpaste to use.

This is the universal legal rule. Parents are in charge of their children . . .

except where it concerns the filicidal Sacrament of the Church of Secular Humanism.

Let him suffer, so he doesn't do it agai


western bondbeam writes: Friday, April, 25, 2008 4:58 PM

"And let’s punish the one at fault. The perpetrator of the pregnancy should be castrated, and before that operation, a short ceremony will determine that heads he gets an anesthetic, tails he doesn’t. That should solve the problem rapidity."
----------
In the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies, the girl and boy are both at fault, not just the male.
=========

And I think the girl has suffered enough when she has the abortion or the birth, so it is time for the idiot responsible to suffer also.

I have also often said that for the first abortion, make a little "mark" so that if she ever asks for another, her tubes will be tied, or whatever that is called.



The reason you seem surprised...
M Sederoff: "An atheist coming out in support of Christianity? I thought I had heard everything. Maybe this man realizes that even though religious faith is not for him, society as a whole benefits from their belief in God."

It is not uncommon at all to find authoritarian sympathies among "former" communists! Such people are always willing to provide fanfare for any endeavor which fits their idea of the "benefit of society" - except liberty. Freedom to make choices, freedom to screw up, freedom to learn from it the hard way, and freedom to grow out of it.

Respond, please


Oh my, I forgot to mention all those news report about girls putting date-rape pills in the guys drink, and all those other pills and potions that are used to make it easy to get his pants off.

Just to make the record straight, would one of you single ladies mention how many times you have been the aggressor, how many times you have snuck your hands into his pants, and how many times you already had a motel room rented, so you didn’t have to waste time, when you finally got him ready to go.

And you men, those of you who blame the lady, and won’t agree to punish the aggressor, tell me about the times when you were nearly raped, and were promised all kinds of good things, if you would only take off your pants and jump on the lady who was forcing you.

Now let’s get back to real life and agree that the one responsible also suffer some physical pain, as a punishment for his acts.

Some response, please.



Jim- and your point would be?
As a single lady, I would like to say that date rape is bad.

However, in this country, we do not execute children for the crimes of their fathers... except in the case of abortion.

Incidently, these children are executed without due process of law.

Not only that, we do not consider date rape a capital offense, so the father would not be executed for slipping a Mickey Finn into his date's drink.

So are these children humans deserving of the same right to life as you and I?

Check out these pictures of preborn children by Lennart Nilsson, Swedish scientist and medical photographer, and you tell me if they are living human beings or not:
http://www.lennartnilsson.com

After we determine their humanity, and therefore their intrinsic value, the sins of their fathers are moot.

From Spain
I think that both Colson and Inthenow are right. As Colson points out in his article, abortion was a political issue here in Spain during the recent elections after having been a complete non-issue in past year. At the same time, I only heard people discussing it on the radio, i.e. ordinary people on the street don't seem to see it as a big deal, or at least as a priority. Like most Italians, according to Inthenow, the vast majority of Spaniards are non-practicing Catholics. The are baptised, do their first communion, are maybe confirmed and married in the church, but their day-to-day lives are anything but Catholic. In fact, while not wanting to shed the label, many Catholics view the church antagonistically or at least ambivalently. Thus, as one recent article put it "the Socialists still rely on support from voters ambivalent about issues like abortion" (this article is worth the time if you're interested in Spanish politics: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3053802,00.html).

I think part of the reason abortion hasn't been an issue here in the past is that the abortion laws here are not so liberal, at least compared to the U.S.(see http://costablanca.angloinfo.com/countries/spain/abortion. asp). However, after his election in 2004, Zapatero has done his best to undermine the traditional family in almost every conceivable way. His government has legalized homosexual marriage, liberalized divorce laws and made abortion easier (by allowing the mental health of the mother, a very subjective consideration, as a legal reason for abortion). This year, for the first time, I heard people talking about abortion during the election. Unfortunately for conservatives, their candidate, Rajoy, a rather unlikeable fellow to begin with and now a two-time national election loser, did little to distinguish himself from Zapatero on such issues and was defeated last month.

I'll believe it when I see it.
For now, it's just talk and I am as impressed with the supposed and oft-touted European wisdom as I am with that of the American Leftists.

jim, your post of 12:59
you shut-up you ignorant poo-hole. men should be castrated for getting a women pregnant. people don't get any dumber than you.

GG-AZ
Geez... You're good. I can't make any great posts because you keep stealing my thunder.


Abortion and Cutlrual Economics
Perhaps Spain and Italy have moved toward an awareness of abortion as an economic issue.

Heretofore the subject of abortion has been cast as a "religion against my personal freedom" issue. While many of us see God's law and the dignity of Human Person as the main argument against abortion, it is also true that the economics of abortion have become clearer to governments and citizens.

The self interest of a government (regime, tyranny, democracy) at some point recognizes abortion as anti-life to the nation/ culture/ regime/party. In that case, for their purposes, it ceases to have a religious dimension.
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