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Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Voluntary Self-Extinction
by Chuck Colson
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For decades, British couples campaigned to have infertility treatments included among the treatments provided by the U.K.’s National Health Service. Even after the Service agreed to pay for treatments like in vitro fertilization, there remained a shortage of potential egg donors, so that many British couples had to go overseas in their quest to have a child.

Now, just imagine what they must think now as many young people in their peak child-bearing years are having themselves sterilized as an environmental statement. A recent story in the U.K.’s Daily Mail told readers about British women who refuse to have children because children are not “eco friendly.”

One of these women, Toni, works for an environmental group. She said that she “shudders with horror” at the thought of a “little hand slipping into hers—and a voice calling her Mummy.”

The “shudder” is caused by the thought of the child’s environmental impact. As Dave Barry likes to say, “I am not making this up.” I wish I were.

So, when Toni learned she was pregnant 10 years ago, she quickly had an abortion to “protect the planet.” Then, to make sure that such a “mistake” could not happen again, she had herself sterilized at age 27.

What did the child’s father think about all this? He sent her a “congratulations card” and later married her. Apparently, he agrees that “having children is selfish. It’s all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet . . . ”

Toni is not alone in her sentiments. Another woman named Sarah told the paper that, growing up, she “agonized over the perils” of things like “climate change” and “the loss of animal species.” This led her to decide that she would not have children.

Eventually, Sarah met Mark who felt as passionately about the perils of children as she did. Together, they decided that Mark should undergo voluntary sterilization—in his case, a vasectomy.

They see their actions as part of their commitment to living “as green a life a possible”: recycling, using low-energy light bulbs, eating “organic, locally produced food,” and having themselves sterilized.

While these are extreme cases, the beliefs driving them are anything-but-fringe, especially among environmental activists. Much of their rhetoric depicts the relationship between man and the rest of creation as a “zero-sum game,” in which what is good for people is, by definition, bad for the planet.

It is not uncommon to read about an environmentalist saying that what the planet needs is a good catastrophe to “cull” the human herd. An award-winning scientist said just that last year.

While most people reject that kind of extremism, the basic idea—that large families are “irresponsible”—has spread to much of Western culture. People with large families are looked on as freaks, and complete strangers do not hesitate to tell them so.

However widespread this misanthropic worldview may be, it is folly, as the demographic crisis in Europe and East Asia demonstrate. Societies that view children as a burden find themselves facing extinction. That, in turn, leaves the future of our civilization, and of life itself, in the hands of the fruitful, those who believe that man, created in God’s image, is the crown of creation, not the curse.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Vile, Evil People
I wrote about these repulsive people over at my own blog at http://www.zatavu.blogspot.com

uber
You probably won't see this, but I'll address it anyway. I'm assuming that you're referring to the idea of American liberty being a "liberal" idea. In reality, it was more of a radical idea. It basically recognized that political and economic power held by one or a few people inevitably leads to oppression because people in power won't want to share. Liberals like to believe that democracy was their idea, but if you look at the Constitution, the Founders used very conservative principals. Balance of power, sharing of decisions, age requirements for office, property ownership requirements for voting, deliberate difficulty in amending the Constitution. These were men who wanted to assure that what they created would be "conserved" and protected from overly-liberal flights of fancy. And, as they had just fought a war for independence, I would say none of them were pro-monarchy. Monarchism is not a "conservative" idea. England has a constitutional monarchy, but is a socialist country. Liberals in the United States tend to promote a form of socialism (universal health care, universal education, price controls, job supports, etc...), predicated upon the idea that our money is best controlled by an elite few who decide what's best for us. So, I'd be careful how you throw around terms, because American liberals really don't seem to be that much into individual liberty, so if you're going to conflate the two, you leave your political system open for attack on its merits.

Lon
h/t to you sir/madame! Clarity and logic personified. Kudos.

Love of Life Missing in Environmentalist
It's ironic that those who claim to love nature are turning against it by hating their own (potential) children. Imagine being "horrified" by the thought of your child reaching for your hand and calling you "Mummy."

Amazing.

People brought up in freedom and prosperity, with opportunities to do good, are directing their actions to the annihilation of their own group. Do they want the values of people who don't care for the environment to take over?

They are proof that prosperity and overprotection have a downside. Self-absorbtion, ignorance, sentimentality, the inability to see the bigger picture and avoidance of the difficult work life demands will sink the West.


various
There have always been people who prefer not to raise children, and children are probably better off not being raised by such parents. (Although attitudes do change once a baby is born.)

I would guess that in these cases, such people have found a way to make themselves feel superior for doing what they want to do anyway. (And likely many of them will grow to regret the choice they made assuming it is not reversible.)

That said, it is funny to see so many people argue as if there is no moral difference between not bringing a person into the world, and actually taking them out of the world. For someone who thinks a fetus is a person, it should seem offensive to equate the woman who had an abortion to avoid having a child and the couple who chose a vasectomy to avoid the same thing.

And it is hard to see why anyone should think that someone who would choose not to bring a child into the world would think this is morally equivalent to an obligation to commit suicide.

And of course Akagi is right that suggestions that people of these beliefs should be removed from the world represents genocide is as silly as the idea that allowing abortion does. Neither represents a threat to the existence of any group that could fall under that rubric.

The downside of their depopulation
I have no problem with contraception or with people choosing not to reproduce. They know what they're doing and we should stay out of it.

Understand though, that the enviro-radicals will pass on their values in ways other than parenting. Some of these groups propose child taxes on people having children. They will also have nothing to do other than promote their extreme environmental ideas by focusing on influencing YOUR children in government schools, supporting candidates who share their values, and passing anti-family legislation.

They tend to promote socialism, so if they succeed, the tax burden will cause many people to choose smaller families because most insist on higher standards of living. (See the population trends in Russia and S. Korea.) Eventually the burden of the will be so high and the population so low, the system will crash with a generation or two of people completely unfamiliar with the idea of being self reliant.

Since life expectancy is getting longer, a socialistic society with a decreasing population rate will eventually have to face euthanasia issues.

Meanwhile most of us with more than 2 kids will raise the next generation to live by traditional Western and Judeo-Christian values and they will pass them on to future generations.

"God formed the earth...to be inhabited"
from Isaiah 45:18:

"God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited."

And I don't think he wanted it to be inhabited PRIMARILY by animals, which is the direction some of these misguided folks (like Sarah and Toni) are promoting.

talent scout, here is a scripture from the "Doctrine & Covenants" which supports and expands on what Isaiah said:

"all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;

19 Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul.

20 And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion." (D & C 59:18-20)

I love the balance there--that the earth is for man, but we are to be wise stewards thereof.

ts, do you think the likes of Sarah &
Toni and "these ding bats" lacked any basic *faith in God* example in their home life?

Or were they just indoctrinated by teachers to *worship at the altar* of the likes of Al Gore and other "global warming" fanatics?

At last, something ts & I agree on--
"Be Fruitful and Multiply
All you normal people
And pray that more and more of these ding bats stop multiplying."

I'm guessing that Sarah and Toni may live to regret their choice not to have children, but that is their choice--which they are entitled to.

Also, most people who do not want children should not have them; because their children would get short shrift.

Be Fruitful and Multiply
All you normal people
And pray that more and more of these ding bats stop multiplying.

quote:
One of these women, Toni, works for an environmental group. She said that she “shudders with horror” at the thought of a “little hand slipping into hers—and a voice calling her Mummy.”

Bible calls for honor killing
"And lastly where in the Bible does it call for honor killing?"

(Deuteronomy 22: 22)
(Leviticus 20: 10)

Of course liberals have for ears said "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Typical moral relativism.

The Agent Smith Worldview
"While these are extreme cases, the beliefs driving them are anything-but-fringe, especially among environmental activists. Much of their rhetoric depicts the relationship between man and the rest of creation as a “zero-sum game,” in which what is good for people is, by definition, bad for the planet."

This reminds me of the scene in The Matrix where Morpheus is being interrogated by Agent Smith, who sneers: "You humans are a virus upon this planet.....and WE are the cure."

I'll bet a lot of liberals and extremists were muttering "amen!" under their breaths when Smith said that. They have a rather contemptuous view of humankind's right to live on this planet -- as though we invaded from outerspace and must be eradicated like a plague, a virus. It's a shameful and corrupt worldview.




Insanity
It is ironic that these people come from Britain. Yesterday's Daily Telegraph reported that the births to Pakistani and other immigrants averaged 3.4 children per woman while the rate is 1.4 women for British women. A German paper (Der Spiegel or Bild, not sure which) recently stated that 1/3 of all children born in Europe by 2020 will be the children of immigrants.
So as Westerners extinguish themselves, they are replaced by people who don't sunscribe to the same suicidal philosophies. Success is killing Western civilization and demographics is destiny. Goodby Europe!! Hello Eurabia!!

what madness
I say go ahead, snip away at your genitals Deep Greens, you’re doing good people a favor killing off your flawed and ultimately destructive genetics.
But, just one thing, If you so much as attempt at even swaying my children to think similarly or worse yet, force your deep green nihilistic insanity on another via legislation, I will bring slow, painful and exceedingly violent justice upon you and your kind.
Keep your idiocy to yourselves. There is a line do not cross it.

Old age care?????????
The people who do not procreate, will have no one to take care of them in their old age! How sad, the only comfort will be their ideals. Will they die with regrets of not having someone to care for them? Yet my child and others like them will have to help take care of them, by using our tax money to cover thier social security or taxes as in Europe's case.

Remember children are a blessing and never are they a curse.

If you yourself were a noxious kid...
--
...(as a great many "Liberals" seem to have been), you're not going to look upon your own offspring as the kinds of people you'd ever like to meet and get to know.

Logical, right?

Children are a helluva burden, both economically and emotionally. I'm going through a crop of live-in grandchildren, and they're definitely "high-maintenance" projects, every one one of 'em.

If I could've taken a coldly rational pre-emptive look at taking on this load of work, would I have said "No, thanks" for the option?

Damn right I would.

But I wasn't given the option, any more than I was given the option to raise my own kids. Like just about every other American male, I took marriage as a package deal.

I'm morally - as a matter of personal honor - constrained to see these grandchildren as a part of that package.

A big part of the difference between the "Liberal" and the genuine conservative is that the "Liberal" has no sense of personal honor.

None.

They conceive of government as "Do It All For You Daddy," and because of that worldview, they don't see the individual as responsible for *ANYTHING*.

Therefore they're simply blind to the concept of duty in their personal lives.

So it's good that they're not reproducing.

What the hell kind of parents could they possibly make?

--

To uber
I wonder, do you ever go onto 'progressive' websites and rebuke those who say 'Conservatives should never be allowed to reproduce'? Please, do not attempt to claim that such statements are never made.
I cannot know the true answer to my question, but I'd be willing to bet my plane ticket home that you don't.
I strongly suspect you have no problem with 'calls for genocide' in general; you just oppose the ones with which you don't agree.

But perhaps I'm wrong.

Mike
In a word, MOVE! Preferably to where the girls are!

Names and Games and Shame
Most popular names of newborns. George was replaced by Mohamed at #22 in the UK. Jose hit #1 in Texas.
Some of you have cheered the abortion of these wacko's unborn, shame on you!
There are too many humans on the planet but I'm not giving up my time and I surely don't want to choose who should.
China has bred an army of men who can't mate and will fight. Wouldn't you if you had no prospect of family because there are not enough women?

Netscaper
Killing themselves would be wrong, also known as suicide. Maybe if that act could be called after term abortion, then it could be acceptable. Even entitled to UN funding to set up clinics and counciling centers on their "choice", those in favor of after term abortion could call themselves "pro choice".

But I digress, after all I'm just a pro life unaborted human.

This is disturbing on so many levels....
This story is so disturbing on so many levels. If they want to save the earth by killing the unborn and sterilizing themselves, maybe they should just go kill themselves first, and leave this damaged planet to those of us who want to be here and want to continue having children here.

Uber,
We don't need to call for genocide. You libs are doing that all by yourself! We're just shaking our heads at people with that kind of reasoning. Now quit blaming others for agreeing that such people shouldn't add to the stupidity quotient already present in the world by having their own kids.

Martyr complex
I just reviewed the evening's postings. Uber took the collective and obvious irony, incredibly, as a call for genocide, and then, when appropriately denounced for his foolish error, uber

-- claimed (again, incredibly) that conservatives intend to legalize "honor killing" (whatever that is), and then
-- posted the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount.

It's the Matthew 5 post that got my attention, actually. I personally love that passage, but uber's use of it in this context indicates a serious Martyr Complex. He apparently sees himself as the True Representative of Christ's Kingdom on Earth, and is holding up Matthew 5 like a talisman to prove his righteousness before all the bedeviled heathen here on Townhall.

You've discredit yourself tonight, uber, and again, I humbly suggest you find a therapist and work out your rage.

uber, please get help
uber wrote: "The best interpretation of Jeeves, is assisted suicide."

Um... perhaps if you're delusional. But not for any reasonable reader of the English language.

Readers not following this, Jeeves posted at 12:59 PM. Go ahead and read his brief post, and see for yourselves whether he should be taken to mean "assisted suicide." And then categorize uber accordingly.

uber also wrote: "But I posted a third example.... Presumably just as humorous as the first "Modest Proposal."

Yes, actually, it was. Nobody is calling for genocide here. We're all noticing the irony of people who genuinely believe human beings are a pollutant to the planet, but somehow don't see THEMSELVES as part of that problem.

And apparently you did not take my advice about leaving here and getting an education. You should have; but perhaps you should see a therapist for a few months first, as your inability to grasp satire and irony indicates a debilitating rage of some sort. Again, I'm not kidding, and I'm not just taking mean shots; I'm completely serious.

(Unrelated to this thread, please visit my political blog site, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

Well Uber
To inherit the earth, you have to be here to inherit it. Nature abhors a vacuum, and if the enviros commit self-immolation, there is no assurance whatsoever that the rest of humanity will follow suit. Those that are fruitful and multiply will be the ones that inherit the future.

Maybe you should take a look at Mark Steyn's "America Alone: The end of the world as we know it." A good read and much more in depth than this article on the subject of demography as destiny.

Of course, if reading a book is too much of a burden, you are free to hang around here and lend your snark and incoherence to what is otherwise a pretty good discussion.

Purposely will also do...
The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of
the human genome by honoring those who
accidentally remove themselves from it...

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/

Not Enough
If the loony left wants to kill unborn children to keep mother earth safe from the putrid invasion of new humankind, then why are they not the first to volunteer to take the "Heaven's Gate" approach?

Oh Happy Day, Oh Happy Day
This is wonderful news. I am absolutely beside myself with glee. The thought of brain-dead, liberal, environmentalists aborting their pregnancies and then sterilizing themselves makes me giddy beyond words.

Think of how the world benefits. Eventually, these oh so environmentally responsible elitist goons will expire. But what is even better is that they will not be populating the earth with their vulgar spawn. Think of it, no
foul-mouthed, body pierced, lice infested, disrespectful children in hemp underwear telling the rest of us how to live our lives. Why ... why, we may actually be able to go to the mall again!!

These brave schmucks have taken a bold step toward carbon neutrality. They have thrown down the gauntlet for all liberals to step up to the plate and get sterilized. A wise liberal knows he doesn't want to be left out of this burgeoning movement. To all liberals, regardless of your many genders, now is the time to act. Please, I urge you to pick up the gauntlet and present your "nether regions" for sterilization. A sad and desperate earth depends on you.


uber, read more carefully
You need to read more carefully.

These people claim to believe that humans are such a blot on the planet that reproduction is morally irresponsible.

If they truly believed that humans were *that* bad for the earth they would not just kill their babies and cut off their future but *they would also apply their principles to their own lives*. After all, they're humans and they believe that humans are bad for the planet so their beliefs DEMAND that they remove their own horrible, earth-destroying presence from the planet.

The way you tell a person's true principles from something that sounds nice but that they really mean deep in their heart is by their actions.

Once a person lays claim to a principle they are RESPONSIBLE for following that principle to the end. You can't lay claim to a principle then say, "But I'm different. That doesn't apply to my case."

In this case the principle claimed is that humans are bad for the earth and must not exist. By claiming that principle but remaining alive to, in their view, pollute the earth by their existence, they say, "But I'm different. That doesn't apply to my case."

And thus they are legitimate targets of derision and ridicule because, "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." They inflict death on their children but, hypocritically, refuse to embrace it themselves.

If you have never read Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, I strongly suggest that you do so and get a good look inside the minds of such modern Pharisees.

What would be nice
It is noticeable that none of the enviro-wackos is extreme enough to voluntarily assign themselves to be the first removed from the planet. Proof of this occurs when one suggests such a step as enviro-wacko stepping off a cliff and helping to feed some wildlife (birds, insects, rodents, ...)--ALWAYS the ew will bristle.

re: Uber
Man you need a dictionary. Look up the words conservative and liberal with respect to their political definitions. Islam isn't a monarchy it's a theocracy and in either case aren't conservative but (and here's another word for you to look up) reactionary.

And lastly where in the Bible does it call for honor killing? I'm quite curious about which book, chapter and verse illuminates the practice of murdering rape victims or stoning women who don't mind immediately?

Matthew 5: and more liberal propaganda
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons [1] of God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


The meek shall inherit the earth.
I guess that leaves conservatives out in the cold.

Jesus gave us the answer:
"The meek shall inherit the earth."

honor killing
A conservative notion called for in the bible.

How does exactly is Islam bad for conservatism?

So far today the strongest arguments against the proposition for "voluntary extinction," are those who say that to propose this idea will lead to the end of Liberalism.

The greatest threat being conservative practices such as Honor Killing being legalized.

I thought
that Conan killed Thulsa Doom.

Killed him on the day of Doom, cut off his head and tossed it down the steps of the temple at Doom's mountain of power... and Doom's children of emptiness who worshipped Death, threw their torches in the fountain, disbanded, and wandered off.

It appears that they have regrouped somewhat, and now...they still choose death, but it is of their offspring instead of their parents. More efficient, and very Darwin.

Self-extinction
I presume the next logical step is immediate suicide to end the wasting away of the earth?
Of course the vacuum that these people are creating in the British economy is being filled by immigrants who will have far more offspring per capita and will not support the enviro-lunacy movement of the left. In fact immigrants will expect jobs and homes for their kids and grandkids. So by not having the 1-2 kids that a native Brit would have, they are attracting people who will have 4, 5, 8 kids who will mostly all have large families. These immigrants most likely wouldn't have been so procreative in the poor or low income state they emmigrated from, so the sterilizers are actually causing a bigger footprint. So you can stop patting yourself on your self-righteous back, you are creating a bigger problem.
So the effect is the British culture and environment that they sprung from will be overwhelmed by foreign culture. By New Years Day Mohammed will be the most popular given name in Britain. Sharia law will soon shut the environuts up. Did you see the honor killing in Canada in today's news? The sin? Wearing jeans and tee-shirts. The father choked his daughter to death. His son tried to block the investigation by police. I wonder how many global warming discussions this family had around the dinner table?
KenS

should read
the only call for genocide are (from) the ones who want to die,

I don't know, uber
Another call for Genocide.

Akagi: Tuesday, December, 11, 2007 1:49 PM

"Last thing we need is for these fools to reproduce. I think the next step is for these fools in a humane way to be put down."

uber: Tuesday, December, 11, 2007 3:06 PM

"In this case the "people" who the calls of genocide are directed at are "people who support humans choosing to not reproduce for ecological reasons."

Ahem...But the ones calling for genocide ARE the " people who support humans choosing to not reproduce for ecological reasons."

Akagi may think "the next step is for these fools in a humane way to be put down", arguably a prediction, but regardless...

It is voluntary suicide. Genocide self imposed.

It occurs to me that the only call for genocide are the ones who want to die, the liberals who love and cheer death.




Right on baby

Right on baby, or perhaps I should say no baby!

I would like to encourage ALL liberals to stop having children. Sounds like a great idea.

Uber
You are one strange dude!

Merry Christmas.

I vote Fred..... cause he ain't no RINO!

aurorawatcher: Moslems are Conservatives
Democracy is by definition a liberal idea, monarchy a conservative one.

How is the death of democracy bad for conservatism?

Understanding the issue
Western-minded British subjects are choosing extinction for themselves through sterilization and abortion. Apparently, they are so obsessed with saving the planet, they are willing to exterminate "white" Brits. Of course, that's not what the Muslim Brits and those of immigrant stock are doing. They're having large families. Well, when you consider a substantial proportion of the Caucasian Brits aren't having any children, that means a large family would be two children -- not even replacement when you consider that some children die before reproducing themselves. So, the natural consequence will be that Britain will become a non-Caucasian country.

Now, I don't particularly have a problem with the skin color issue. I do have a problem with the mind-set issue. I have a good friend who is from Britain. She's adopted from India, so she's dark skinned herself. She's also a born-again Christian and very Western-thinking. She notes that she's considered the British equivalent of an Uncle Tom. Most dark-skinned Brits consider her to be a traitor because she believes in conservative values, Jesus Christ, and working for a living.

So, based on Carolyn's take on the subject, I'd say England headed for self-imposed trouble that will probably look a bit like, I don't know, the Middle East. Bye bye Democracy, hello Islamic republic -- the Taliban might be a few generations away.

Without US.


The author wants to see the population to what it was in 1900 by people having only one-child (he did propose having no children, his own daughter and only child died--well misery loves company I guess), but ignore the fact for a second that those in Mexico and India and Bangladesh will never read his book or here of that fool Toni, but wouldn't killing yourself (or if you don't have the courage allowing someone to do it for you)be even better? You won't be using any resources, never reproduce and leave more room and resources for people like me that don't care...it is a win-win for everyone.


Bravo
The nut jobs are weeding themselves out of the gene pool. Sounds great!!

PlumbBob
The best interpretation of Jeeves, is assisted suicide. Conservatives consider this to be murder.

But I posted a third example.... Presumably just as humorous as the first "Modest Proposal."

Mother of 4: Conservative Moral Bankrupt
What it exposes is your prejudice and your fear.

Even a discussion of abortion does not include so many calling for the deaths of proponents for choice.

How would killing ones self facilitate growing a movement to live sustainable?

After all these environmentalist believe environmental degradation is "human made," that means that they also believe it can be solved by humans.

It is only threw the twisted lens of conservatism, where environmental degradation gods plan, that such a nihilistic idea as mass human suicide as a solution makes sense.

Because it is only threw the apocalyptic lens of people who believe in life after death, and redemption of sin for any moral act, that self sacrifice makes sense.

After all didn't Jesus sacrifice himself for human kind?

This dangerous logic is ingrained in Christian dogma.

uber is simply beyond understanding
uber claims at least two posters have called for genocide here today, and posted both.

That he actually believes either is a call for genocide, simply illustrates that uber is not capable of logically assessing written material.

Instance 1 (Kicker) is simply and obviously satire of the "Modest Proposal" variety. I understand that it's hard to recognize some satires online because text gives no audible or visual clues, but the style of the piece was a dead giveaway.

Instance 2 (Jeeves) simply invites them to commit suicide, which is not in any logical manner a call for genocide, and in fact is nothing but a reductio ad absurdum argument, showing the foolishness of their position by taking it to its logical conclusion.

Uber, if you are so very lacking in humor, and so utterly unfamiliar with literary types, and with forms of logical argument involving exaggeration or extension, you should not be voicing opinions in a serious forum. Please run off back to school and get yourself an education before you embarrass yourself further. I'm completely serious. You're wasting the bandwidth of adults with infantile observations.

(Unrelated to this thread, please read my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

China
And Uber:

What does that have to do with childbearing? China being more conservative that is. Taiwan and Korea both very conservative societies have lower birthrates than the US.

Perhaps the phrase zhi zhe bu yan, yan zhe bu zhi applies to you as well as Robert.


Uber
Its not calling for genocide to suggest that these people who believe that humans are a blot on the planet simply take the logical step of applying that belief to themselves.

The fact that they don't -- especially for the ones who have abortions supposedly based on those beliefs -- shows that they don't really mean it for real. Forcing them to confront the illogic of their continued existence in the face of their avowed belief that humans are bad for the planet exposes their hypocrisy.

Subjecting hypocrites to ridicule is not equivalent to calling for genocide.

Misanthropic religion
The true nature of Environmentalism shows in this bizarre and remarkably simple story.

Satan, at the root of everything, hates humanity, because God replaced him in the hierarchy of heaven with the redeemed sons and daughters of Adam. Every act of the devil aims ultimately at destroying humankind. If he can kill us, he will; if he can't, he'll maim, injure, ruin, deceive, impoverish in any way he can.

Environmentalism shows its connection to satan's folly as misanthropic religion, religion that hates humankind. The individuals Colson writes about are following their deep-seated beliefs to their logical conclusion: "Man is evil, so let's eradicate man." Satan could not have said it better.

The only way they could get closer to their genuine purpose would be to release biological agents to destroy all humankind, not just themselves. If I were Scotland Yard, I'd be keeping a pretty close watch on this bunch.

(Unrelated to this thread, please read my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

Genocide
Oh and Uber:

While I don't agree per se, what Toni did is considered by many to be genocide.

Nope
Uber:

Since the goal of these nuts is to help the environment by stopping the human impact on it, wouldn't culling themselves be the logical and best solution? I didn't say I wished them to die. I just offered the next logical step...if they really want to help the environment, they should kill themselves in some painless yet environmentally safe way. Perhaps drink lots of organicly produced beer and them jump into the sea.

Since genocide is defined as the systematic extermination of an ethnic, religious or national group, I don't see how nutcases qualify?


genocide of a people
In this case the "people" who the calls of genocide are directed at are "people who support humans choosing to not reproduce for ecological reasons."

Another call for Genocide.
Akagi: Tuesday, December, 11, 2007 1:49 PM

Last thing we need is for these fools to reproduce. I think the next step is for these fools in a humane way to be put down. I would say harvest their organs too, but perhaps their obvious mental defect is caused by some ailment that can be passed on via their organs so maybe that is not such a good idea.

Uber
I just went back through each and every post. I'm sure as h*ll puzzled, because I can't find any individual calling for genocide. Unless you don't really know what genocide means. According to the Revised and Updated Illustrated Oxford Dictionary, the definition of genocide is "the deliberate extermination of a people or nation."

Based on that, where did any poster call for genocide of a people or nation? Or were you using a bit of hyperbole to try and make a point, however obscure it might have been.

Taproot

Calls for Genocide
Kicker: Tuesday, December, 11, 2007 1:40 PM

"At that point, a cost-benefit analysis of their existence will argue for simply "pulling the plug", cutting off all form of resource consumption for these organisms, and allowing them to expire in an Earth-friendly manner."

Jeeves: Tuesday, December, 11, 2007 12:59 PM

"One weeps for the aborted, and one wonders (along with con4fred) why such zealots do not take the much more obviously fool-proof path of committing suicide in some ecologically friendly way (live burial in a cornfield comes to mind)."

It ain't genocide
Do I need to copy and past the calls for genocide in this thread? There already have been at least two.

No I am not talking about those who wish they would kill themselves.

Conservatives
As a rule, Chinese society is more conservative than our western society, perverse government regulations not withstanding.

Uber
You said, "There seem to be a lot of calls for genocide for people who don't want to have children." I for one don't see where wishing these people a speedy au revoir from Mother Gaia is anything akin to genocide. I see it as them making a rational decision to die for their convictions and to help their favorite mother. Genocide would be if "WE" did away with them all. It ain't genocide if they relieve the planet of themselves :P.

Taproot


the liberal bind
"But wouldn't suicide be the logical choice for someone who is doing so for the sake of the environment--it serves a number of positive effects."

No to commit suicide to save the planet is like committing suicide to defeat suicide bombers.

The point is saving the environment for humanity. The point of not having children is to offset those of you who are choosing to have big families.

We, liberals, what you to have your freedom... In exchange we would like you to honor ours.

Of course like Islamic Fascists, conservatives won't.

This leaves Liberals in a kind of a bind.

Conservatives?
uber:

Not even sure what you are talking about, but in China, the Chinese won't, becuase the government has a strict one-child policy which includes forced abortions and sterlizations and other Draconian measures. This has lead to various perverse effects where millions of men will never be able to find wives as girls are aborted before or given up for adoption and shipped off to the US or simply unregistered meaning they don't formally exist, meaning they are unable to be educated or get any other form of social service--one can imagine the hell of a life they'll face.

I am sure nutcases like Toni totally agree with China's measures though.


CC and the radical envirowacko question
CC, you wrote, I have wondered why the radical
environmentalist even want to save the planet if they want to wipe out the only mammal with the cognitive and spiritual ability to appreciate and value the beauty of God's creation.

CC, for starters, they don't believe in God. If they did, in their hubris, they would believe only they were good enough to receive God's blessings. They being radical envirowackos and other assorted and sundry nutjobs.

Tap

No
I have nothing against people who don't want to have children--in fact some people should never have them because a good number of them are obviously totally incapable of properly raising them to be productive members of a society.

But wouldn't suicide be the logical choice for someone who is doing so for the sake of the environment--it serves a number of positive effects. Being dead they can't reproduce and being dead their carbon footprint and other impact on the environment will be close to zero.


So what?
People who do not want children should not have them. People who do want them, provided they can pay for their food, clothing, shelter, education, entertainment, transportation, incarceration and so forth et cetera, should have them.

People who want to go to Disney World every winter should go. People who want to live on grass and rain water and walk to work every day so they can spend half a year's salary on a week in Monte Carlo should do so. People who would rather stay home and wash their recycling should stay home and wash their recycling.

This is a free country and we are free people. Our decisions impact nobody but ourselves. Leave us alone. Quit nagging us. Get off our backs. Mind your own business. You do what you want and I will do what I want.

The last thing on earth that we need are people who do not want children giving birth to them because some busybody demands that they do so. If they don't want kids, let them not have them.

Conservatives will breed: So what
So South Americas, Africans, Russians, Chinese, Indians and other conservatives will bread.

Light skinned liberals of European decent will be replaced by dark skinned conservatives.

Since when are western liberals responsible for non western conservative choices?

Conservatives SHOULD conserve
However, why do we conserve? Not out of a sense of guilt, I hope. Part of the reason I want to conserve the environment - as a legacy for my children.

I think there is a rational and spiritual reason for conservation - the Lord our God gave us the earth not to abuse, but to care for and to rationally use.

I am against waste of any sort, because I am a conservative. However, I am not a slave to the environment. I believe that animal experimentation is wrong in most cases because I am against cruelty; however, if it is necessary to save human lives, then I am for it, because people do come first. I am against factory farming, again, because of the cruelty, but I support hunting and family farms.

There is a rational middle road that protects the earth for future generations while allowing us to enjoy its bounty.

One more thing
The folly of enviromental nuts is this. People in the west (which includes places like Japan too that isn't in the west per se) already have few children. Western Europe is in serious population decline as is Japan, Taiwan is just above replacement value as is the ROK.

Those that are producing like crazy are those in the developing world--like Mexico--which are unlikely to pay much attention to your calls for population control. This is the same for stuff like Greenhouse gases--the crazies want the US to stop driving SUVs and big trucks and building big houses and walk to work, and dry laundry outside, blah blah blah, but this won't stop India and China from building coal-fired power plant after coal-fired power plant.


genocide
There seem to be a lot of calls for genocide for people who don't want to have children.

Is this the famed moral superiority of which Conservatives preach?

Is genocide part of Gods objective morality?

If so what is moral about fallowing such a gods moral advice?

Isn't this how we get suicide bombers?

Great
Last thing we need is for these fools to reproduce. I think the next step is for these fools in a humane way to be put down. I would say harvest their organs too, but perhaps their obvious mental defect is caused by some ailment that can be passed on via their organs so maybe that is not such a good idea.

While looking at families that have say enough children to fill out a basketball team with a deep bench as odd, (there is a family out there, the Duggar family--sorry they have a few screws lose), but "normal family" of 2-5 kids is hardly selfish in my view.

Of course I am hardly green. I have no problem hunting, killing pests, I heat my home with wood, a drive a truck (when not loaded down with fire wood) get abouts 16 miles to the gallon, burn my garden off twice a year and in a contest between drinking water for me and irrigation water for my plants and the life of what I see as useless mussels downstream, well the mussels can either tough it out or go belly up...or is it lower bivalue up? And I global warming is a fraud put forward my crazies.


Childless by choice.
As one who is childless by choice, and not for environmental reasons, what difference is it to conservatives?

Why do they want "liberals," to populate the planet?

One would think conservatives are happy.

But in fact liberals choosing to disappear seems to frighten them more than any other idea.

But consider
Those eco-activists who have opted to not have children have really done the world a favor. By removing themselves from the gene pool, and by not having any children to indoctrinate in their culture of self-hate, they are minimizing the future impact of their loathsome ideology on future generations.

And, once they reach an age where they become dependent upon others, they will have only government on which to rely.

At that point, a cost-benefit analysis of their existence will argue for simply "pulling the plug", cutting off all form of resource consumption for these organisms, and allowing them to expire in an Earth-friendly manner. With composting of the remains for later use as fertilizer (perhaps the most valuable contribution of their meager, miserable, lives).

What's Next?
Without knowing Coulson's feelings on religion, I agree with his comments, and believe that we may well be witnessing the conversion of an entire society into the darkness of atheistic depravity. No wonder our Founding Fathers were so vehement in their wish to separate us from their mother country.
Can anyone learn from the examples of the Roman Empire, the Third Reich, the Soviet Union, not to mention Sodom & Gomorrah, as well as many other Godless peoples? All of them, at one time or another, deliberately destroyed their unborn & newborn while attempting to justify the acts with the same excuses we see being given today. And, all of them were victims of self-destruction.

theBaron, they are not stupid
They are self-absorbed, self-aware, self-centered, self-ish and they probably have GREAT self-esteem. But they are endangering their own future, the future of their respective societies and the future of modern civilization.

But at least they feel GOOOOOD about themselves.

This is proof that Darwin is right
These enviros who sterilize themselves, to save Mother Earth, Gaia, or whateverthehell-Earth-Mother-godess-from-some-Godforsaken-culture we choose from Evil Humanity, are stupid.

That's it, plain and simple. They are stupid.

And in sterilizing themselves, they are removing their genes from the gene pool.

Hopefully enough of them will, and stupid people will eventually die out.

To my fellow conservatives--be fruitful and multipy!

Hillary delenda est.

We Who Believe in the Future
We who believe in the future are the ones who will HAVE a future.

The doom and gloomers will die unhappy and alone. Personally, I prefer the optimistic picture of spending my final days enfolded by a large and loving family.

Mark R
Personally, I do not see people who have abortions to protect the planet as either educated (indoctrinated, possibly) or rational. One weeps for the aborted, and one wonders (along with con4fred) why such zealots do not take the much more obviously fool-proof path of committing suicide in some ecologically friendly way (live burial in a cornfield comes to mind).

Con4fred
I've long wondered that myself.

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six is a rather chilling portrait of such people -- those who have the courage to see to it that others die for their convictions.

"But that's *different*!" is the eternal cry of those who can't face the logical consequences of their beliefs.

This idea is definitely catching on.
Here's a letter that appeared in my local newspaper today:

In response to parents concerned about the environment: I have chosen not to breed. No child of mine will ever consume one gram of anything. This is by far the best thing anyone can do for the environment.

But I'm supposed to forego pleasure in life so people who don't have the resources to properly raise a family can have lots of kids?

Your kids take precedence over my life? I can't fly somewhere for a vacation so your kids can consume millions of tons of junk food and toys made in China?

I'm supposed to recycle my garbage to help "preserve" a world so your kids can become future consumerist "debt slaves"?

There is no way I'm giving up my only chance to enjoy life any way I please so that millions of obese spoiled brats can get rides to school (paid for with my taxes) with mommy in an SUV.

If everyone stopped breeding we could calmly shut down civilization (rather than the horrific end we are headed toward) and let the Earth return to the paradise it was before the blight of man.

Who would lose? The unborn? The way things are going I don't think they'll mind.

G. Cullins, Medford, Oregon

here's the link: http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 1211/OPINION/712110302

Voluntary Sterilization
I bet the Islamists would be happy to help those of us in the West to die out. Then they can replace us with their children, of which there is no shortage. If educated, rational people fail to reproduce educated, rational heirs, the world will be populated by uneducated, irrational people.

We do not have too many good people in the world.

I have wondered why the radical
environmentalist even want to save the planet if they want to wipe out the only mammal with the cognitive and spiritual ability to appreciate and value the beauty of God's creation.

One could only hope!
If only all liberals and enviromentalists would be willing to undergo sterilization. Imagine a world with no Democrats! I say we encourage this trend of self-extinction for those so concerned about the environment.

Just curious
If these people are so against adding to the destruction of planet Earth, shouldn't they have already committed suicide?

Just asking.
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