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Monday, October 29, 2007
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Victims of Porn
by Chuck Colson
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Note: The following commentary contains information that may not be suitable for children.

A teenage girl was recalling what her childhood had been like—a childhood marred by porn. “When I was eight years old,” she wrote, “my father made me look at [pornographic] pictures” involving sex acts he wanted her to perform. “I went along with him, not knowing any better,” she said.

For years this girl’s father raped her while using these pictures—and at age 16, she had a sexually transmitted disease. “I may die of this disease,” she wrote sadly. “Pornography has ruined my life.”

So much for the claim—often made by porn advocates—that pornography is a victimless crime. This week is White Ribbon against Pornography Week—a good time to remind ourselves of how destructive porn is.

The numbers are staggering. Porn is a 10-billion-dollar-a-year industry. One study revealed that more than 32 million individuals visited an Internet porn site in just one month. Some 800 million pornographic DVDs are rented each month. Other surveys reveal that one in five children on the Internet receives a sexual solicitation.

Christians are not immune to the siren call of porn. A Focus on the Family poll found that 17 percent of Christian adults have visited sexually oriented sites.

There is no longer any doubt that pornography inspires crime. Most child molesters admit that they consume hard-core porn on a regular basis.

And those who create porn are now victimizing even the youngest children. Police who seize pornographic films and pictures note that they are seeing X-rated images of toddlers and even babies—this is sickening.

As surprising as it may seem, sexual addiction—like all addictions—represents a deep hunger for God. In their book, The Sacred Romance, Brent Curtis and John Eldredge point out that humans are designed for intimacy with God. Sometimes we allow the world, however, to drown out God’s voice. But our need for communion with Him never goes away. Instead of seeking fulfillment in Christ, the addict tries to fill the emptiness with other things: pornography, an affair, or a fantasy life.

As the authors put it, “We put our hope in . . . some form of immediate gratification, some taste of transcendence that will place a drop of water on our parched tongue.” And they add that “this taste of transcendence, coming as it does from an obsession with . . . pornography . . . has the same effect on our souls as crack cocaine.” The addiction “attaches itself to our desire [for God] with chains that render us captive.”

That’s why addiction expert Gerald May calls addiction “the most powerful psychic enemy of humanity’s desire for God.” And nothing can free the captives of addiction except God.

If you or someone you know is struggling with porn, a website called PureIntimacy.org, run by Focus on the Family, may help. And if you go to the BreakPoint website, you will find ways to participate in the White Ribbon against Pornography campaign this week—ways you can help shut down illegal, hard-core porn in your own town. Get your church involved, as well.

Those white ribbons we wear this week are a public witness that we refuse to accept the crack cocaine of porn in our society—porn that destroys the lives of all it touches.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Victims of porn
My own wife was a victim of porn; I was addicted, and if I could do anything to undo the hurt I caused, I would.
Thank you for speaking up about the greatest threat to this country's future.
It is absolutely an addictive phenomenon. And just like drug addicts, one like me who has been taken in by the temptation must be on guard every minute of every day: the difference is porn is free and legal. One only has to click a mouse, look at a billboard or TV program. You don't have to find it: it finds YOU!
Only God can help; I'm grateful that He does!

The girl...
was not a victim of porn, but of her father.

The porn did not give her an STD--her father did.

Has ANYONE ever heard of anyone gettting a disease of any kind from reading or looking at porn?

Independent Thinker
"Has ANYONE ever heard of anyone gettting a disease of any kind from reading or looking at porn?"
If alcoholism can be described as a disease, (and it has been), then the answer is an emphatic YES.

Really?
Do we really want to treat porn the way the left treats guns? The father of the girl was a horrible child molestor. Are we not giving him an "out" by claiming the porn was evil and not him?

The same way the left blames crime on guns?

I'd caution against falling prey to the same trap the hysterical left uses against things they disagree with.

Independent Thinker
Independent Thinker writes: Monday, October, 29, 2007 2:21 PM
The girl...
was not a victim of porn, but of her father.

The porn did not give her an STD--her father did.

Has ANYONE ever heard of anyone gettting a disease of any kind from reading or looking at porn?"


Why are you giving the porn industry a free pass? Her father is responsible for her actions, but it started somewhere, something inspired those actions. Don't paint pornography as something innocent that he perverted, he was innocent and the porn perverted him.

Solo610
I do believe that incest existed before porn: let me check the Bible and see.

"There is no longer any doubt that pornography inspires crime. Most child molesters admit that they consume hard-core porn on a regular basis." Oh, for crying out loud! I'll bet they consume water on a regular basis, too. If your second sentence was intended as "proof" of the first sentence then it's a lame failure. If not, then the first sentence is unsupported by anything in the article.

survival 6
"The same way the left blames crime on guns?"
Guns can be used for the defense of one's family and property. Not to mention the bill of rights, which guarantees us the right to keep and bear them.
What is the benefit of porn? And where does the constitution guarantee the right of anyone to flaunt the fruits of their perverted imaginations in front of you, your wife, and your children? Oh, that's right, FREE SPEECH at all costs. Rmember that the next time somebody yells "FIRE!" in your favorite crowded theater.



bjimmy5757
Those are good questions, but unrelated to the issue of whether porn CAUSES sexual predation.

Including that nonsense in his argument undermined Colson's whole position. Readers have to ask themselves, "If he's dumb enough to believe THAT then what else is he wrong about?"


Chuck's Got It Right!
God Himself, when forming the human soul made an emptiness within that yearns to be filled. People sense this void and long to fill it with something.

They continue to search for that perfect whatever that will fill this void in their souls. Alcohol, narcotics, thrill-seeking, adrenaline-creating physical activities like sports and yes even pornography are things that some people use to try to fill the emptiness they continually feel inside.

Many people go to and fro throughout their lives seeking whatever will finally satisfy them, but they always feel empty and guilty afterwards.

Only the love of God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ is meant to fill this void perfectly. Only after one becomes "born-again" do they realize what they have been missing and how foolish they had been to try to fill this emptiness with crap.

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com

Really?
bjimmy5757 writes: Monday, October, 29, 2007 3:20 PM
Independent Thinker
"Has ANYONE ever heard of anyone gettting a disease of any kind from reading or looking at porn?"
If alcoholism can be described as a disease, (and it has been), then the answer is an emphatic YES.

And, bjimmy, you have some kind of proof that one can become an alcoholic by reading or viewing porn?

Good points in both points, Grumpy
You covered it well. I couldn't have answered any better.

Grumpy-
-Point taken...
citing porn as the MAIN cause of predatory sex crimes may not lend credibility to Colson's article, but to suggest porn does not CONTRIBUTE to the problem would be to ignore a big part of the picture!

Colson is loosing it
Colson's own article sows the seeds of his undoing. Porn is a mainstream form of entertainment whether Colson and other Christians like it or not. The sheer amount that is consumed shows it can't be as harmful as he claims.

If porn leads to child molestation then every child would have been molested by now. If it destroyed all it touches, every man, woman and child would have been destroyed. This is just one more ridiculous article in an every growing line.

I respect that Colson has deeply held beliefs, but he keeps confusing his faith with reality.

Independent Thinker - no, really, THINK!
"And, bjimmy, you have some kind of proof that one can become an alcoholic by reading or viewing porn?"
I was making a correlation between the disease of addiction to alcohol and that of addiction to pornography, not that viewing porn leads to alcoholism! There are those who are predisposed to alcoholism and others who are, because of the environment in which they were raised, may be predisposed to an addiction to pornography.

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary defines the word "disease" as follows:
"...a condition of the living animal... or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
3: a harmful development (as in a social institution)"
So based on that definition, exposure to and time spent looking at porn can and does lead to a disease, an addiction to porn. It also does not preclude accountability on the part of the addict.
Sorry, I inferred from your screen name that there was some ACTUAL THINKING going on .
my mistake...

How about...
the ultimate porn: murder? How about the almost mind-numbing number of murders and other violent behavior seen on TV and in movies?
Do we all become "diseased" over viewing them, and want to run out and emulate the actions?

I know I'm only one person, but I don't think I'm any different than most.
Though I didn't watch a lot of TV earlier in my life, I did watch a lot of movies in my youth and, since I've retired, I do watch a lot of TV.
I can't begin to count the number of murders I've read about in novels and seen on the screen over my lifetime. Yet, I have not so much as contemplated doing a single one, let alone actually committing a murder.

bjmmy
Well, I don't know if I should bother. When someone has to resort with ad hominem insults, it is almost always an indication of the weakness of their position and the weakness of their own mind.
But...as for your analogy, just this:
It "appears" you are suggesting that, because some people have trouble handling alcohol, we should keep alcohol out of the hands of everyone, inluding the vast majority of those of us who drink responsibly.
But, of course, you are not. They already tried that with the Volstead Act. You wouldn't be stupid enough to suggest to repeat that folly or that it makes any more sense now than it did then.
But it does appear you ARE suggesting that because there are some few in society who can't handle porn and become addicted to it, a sort of Volstead-like law should be passed to make porn illegal for the rest of society.
And...you haven't even offered any proof that porn addicts in any way commit sex crimes in greater numbers than sex criminals who are not porn addicts, or in any greater numbers than if there were no such thing as porn to begin with.

Independent Thinker-
Isn't watching a murder on TV meant to be entertaining to us, as a part of a larger story regarding the consequences of that act?
In other words, we watch to see how the cop, detective, etc. will nab the wrongdoer. There is a sense that justice is sought. Or maybe I'm giving Hollywood too much credit?
Viewing porn is simply an end in itself; it's intent is to entice the sexual desire in a person. What the viewer does after that is his problem, moral or otherwise.

Yes, indeed
"Almost" all of what you just said is true.
Those who put murders on TV, movies and in books do so to entertain. The very same reason those who write, draw or otherwise present porn: to entertain.
Why we read murder mysteries, or view plots involving murder may vary from person to person, but basically to be entertained in some way by it. The same can be said of porn.
Not all people enjoy porn, nor do all people enjoy reading about or viewing murder.
To answer your question, though it may have been somewhat rhetorical, regarding your supposition that murders are presented "as a part of a larger story regarding the consequences of that act?" I think you have answered your own question; that you are giving Hollywood too much credit. They are in the ENTERTAINMENT business; that's how they make their money. As to the cops catching the killers, or some such, they give us that because they have found that's primarily--though not always--what we want to see.
Finally, you said with regard to porn: "What the viewer does after that is his problem, moral or otherwise."
Exactly my (and some others who have said the same here) point.





Independent Thinker
The difference between most (I emphasize MOST) TV or movies portraying murder is this: they don't glorify the act..
Porn glorifies the degradation of women, and exposes us to something God created to be seen only by a husband.
We are in agreement: management of porgraphy cannot legislated!

for Grumpy
Grumpy writes: "I do believe that incest existed before porn: let me check the Bible and see."

Actually, porn (in the sense of erotic depictions of women) may have existed before the Bible was written:

"Stone-Age figurines depicting what could be the oldest pornographic scene in the world have been unearthed in Germany.
"Archaeologists have discovered what they believe to be the 7,200-year-old remnants of a man having intercourse with a woman....the first figurine that clearly depicted male sexual organs."

http://tinyurl.com/4r7pg

If after 7,200 years, we haven't gotten rid of porn, maybe we'll never be able to ban it entirely, but find ways to reduce any harm that can result from it.


Kerry / Edwards...

My registered child-rapist-predator neighbor still has the Kerry/Edwards sticker on his van.

One thing is for sure... over 90% of Child-rapists are Democrat voters.

Democrat = The party of porn


Porn serves to desensitize and objectify
people so that which ought to be unspeakable becomes possible, acceptable, and ultimately desirable. If people feel compelled to film f34cking, it should be for personal consumption. I cannot tell you how many young lives porn has contributed to the misery of; too many cases and specifics to list without a blog.

When my daughter was about 13 years old, we were in an FYI (dvd/cd place in the east). When she saw the term, "adult entertainment" on a sign, she asked, "What's so adult about people acting like hamsters?" I think that says it all.

Porn destroyed my marraige
I am in the process of getting a divorce because of my husbands porn addiction...I know that as a good conservative evangelical christian I have to forgive...and I do forgive him...but it's really hard to forget that he was more interested in looking at free pictures on the web of really sick acts than in me for five of our nine years together. I guess you could say that the pornagraphy of my husband helped to push me into another relationship because I was tired of being second in attraction. Now I made the decision to go into another relationship...but when you feel inadequate and are feeling that way on a daily basis...how do you cope? No I'm not divorced yet and in some people's eyes I am sinning...but I can live with my choices...can those of you that defend the porn addicts lifestyle do the same?

Is It Just Me?
Did anyone else find it ironic that this article on pornography was displayed next to a salacious advertisement for "conservatice t-shirts?"

Tish
Your husband chose to "marry" his obsession, and willingly prioritizes it. You are not "sinning" in your refusal to submit yourself to HIS sin/selfishness; that is NOT what you are called to do, and don't let well meaning but uninformed (and unaffected) church ladies tell you otherwise.

Now, your husband's choice does not mean that YOU are undesirable or inadequate. It would be well worth your while to explore your beliefs in that area before you enter into another relationship. I think you can be set free from some inaccurate strongholds if you do.

bjimmy
You said: "Porn glorifies the degradation of women..."
You would have been correct had you said, "Some porn..." By far, the VAST majority of the porn I've read and viewed does nothing of the kind.

And you said, "[porn] exposes us to something God created to be seen only by a husband."
This is but an opinion, not a provable fact.

Finally you said, "We are in agreement: management of porgraphy cannot legislated!"
Indeed. And on that note I bid you goodnight.

Two Thoughts
1. Re: Porn degrading women - Women make all the money in porn. The men are afterthoughts, and none of them sell the videos or are the main attraction. This is one of the industries where women outperform men financially, in spades. Though I cannot fathom where a person must be mentally and spiritually to decide to make porn, I think it is a tough sell to state that women are not the ones raking it in in the industry. They prectically own it (see Danni Ashe).

2. Tish - I think you have to ask why your husband turned to porn. I am not trying to castigate you in any way, whatsoever. Given the scenario in your post one has to wonder what happened. If your husband is getting action every night, I cannot fathom he has the time or inclination for porn.

I really think it boils down to the same thing men and women have been dealing with for centuries. (generalizing here)Men want to have sex much more often than women. Women, particularly in a marriage scenario, can get into a rut (as can men), where one forgets that the other has a greater drive for sex. In that case, it seems that porn could actually help alleviate the friction caused by one partner having a greater drive/need/desire than the other.

Honestly, I wonder if porn has actually worked to assist relationships. I also wonder if porn has the ability to prevent men from acting out rape impulses (of course in those men that have that kind of proclivity/disease). I realize, of course, that rape is not truly sexual in nature, but, rather, violent. But, still, it makes one ponder.

BTW, if I had a daughter and she went into porn, I also wonder if I could look at myself in the mirror ever again.

Thoughts?

Yes, I too am a victim of porn...
One time I ordered the sequel to this movie only to discover that they just re-used a lot of the scenes from the first movie.

What. A. Ripoff.

I'd been had.

Hmm.

Nobody seems to be laughing.

Crickets. I can actually hear crickets chirping over the internet. And who's that guy with the big hook on a pole...

KOB
knight_of_baawa writes: Monday, October, 29, 2007 11:12 PM
Solo
So the father couldn't help it because of the porn? Puh-leaze.

Just because you have some idiotic prudish puritanical streak in you doesn't mean that porn is bad and non-victimless."

I didn't say he that was the only reason, but it was a gateway to bigger things. Speaking of which, don't you have some porn to get back to? I know its a personal mission of yours to be a self-appointed apologist for all things anti-Christian. You, who has no experience with families being torn apart by porn are going to come in here and dare tell me what it is and is not. Porn has more victims than you will ever know, it claims marriages everyday. Im surprised to hear you call for any kind of personal accountability, its not the the norm for you. Its always someone else's fault (i.e. Christianity) when you respond.

King Liberal
Adding a picture of Ron Jeremy was a stroke of GENIUS on the part of Colson. Cruise back up there and take a look at him.

Feel like watching a porno now? Ron is a holdover from an age in the industry where participants did not need to be attractive, just well endowed.

If Colson could arrange to have a segement of Jeremy in every new release--one you cannot skip or fast forward through--it would deal a crippling blow to the porn industry.

JJBiener...
...the truth is that Colson is right on the money. You failed to notice his main point, which is that porn, like other addictions, keeps people from knowing their Creator intimately.

And while that may not result in the type of immediate and obvious harm that you refer to, it can and does result in a spiritual condition that has eternal implications.

But beside that, porn, like other serious and damaging addictions, has many, many silent victims. Thousands of people suffer in silence because of the harm that is manifest in their lives due to association with porn.

Just because shattered lives, suicides, STD's, etc.... are not front page news does not mean that porn is not the direct or indirect cause of these things. Only a naive person could fail to recognize the obvious connection.

Llama
Your grasp of the Bible is so far off, its a wonder to us all that you would talk about it.

Somehow you think using the worst examples of Christians is a good way to prove Christianity as a whole, wrong. Shall we call it convenient logic?

Im sure i can find some atheists out there that represent you correctly, lets start with the usual list that have no regard for human life.

Lol
Yeah. Your mom sent me some nice shots."

My mom is in her 70's...i guess there is a flavor for everyone.

bjimmy5757
"Thank you for speaking up about the greatest threat to this country's future."

I literally LOLed at that. Yes, porn is obviously the greatest threat to America, even greater than the mayhem in Iraq, the destruction of our civil liberties, out of control government spending, the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar, our virtual enslavement to the Federal Reserve, the illegal fascist entity that is the IRS, trillions of dollars in national debt that will take generations to pay off, increasing Russian and Chinese global dominance, and the possibility of an all out nuclear war in the Mideast combined.

You sir certainly have you priorities straight.

Failure of Epic Proportions, Chuck.
Let me start by saying that I find pornography to be both addictive and corrosive to healthy sexuality.

The reasons for this are complex, and should be handled with the reasoning eyes of science, philosophy, and theology, not this... rubbish. As has been stated, the father is guilty, not the pornographers. Your examples of porn's harm were silly and you came across as an ignoramus making dangerous generalizations.

If you want to fight pornography, discuss how it interferes with healthy intimacy and perceptions of sex. Don't say that everyone who views porn is a child molester.

To knight
Just curious, but does your OWN "idiotic prudish puritanical streak" extend to disapproving child porn and rape porn?

Talli...on knight
He is not against those things. He calls it censorship every time someone speaks out against child porn. What people write is very telling as far as knowing why they come here to attack Christians.

Hooray for porn!
"...the truth is that Colson is right on the money. You failed to notice his main point, which is that porn, like other addictions, keeps people from knowing their Creator intimately. "

God is defeated by Lusty Lesbos 7 yet again!

"God Himself, when forming the human soul made an emptiness within that yearns to be filled. People sense this void and long to fill it with something."

This is just too easy...


A different view
Tish Writes:
"I guess you could say that the pornagraphy of my husband helped to push me into another relationship because I was tired of being second in attraction."

So unless I read that wrong the husband was faithfull in that he never had sex with another woman, he just stimulated his imiganation. Yet she went out and was in a relationship with another man? Then she blames the husband? Not judging because we don't know the rest of the story but.......

On Mr Colson's point of "you will find ways to participate in the White Ribbon against Pornography campaign this week—ways you can help shut down illegal, hard-core porn in your own town."
it is important to enforce the laws of your locality. If someone is breaking the law they should be stopped. I have no problem with that.

If someone directly hurts a child or films a child having Sex lets really go after the people who do that. Not with weak sentences and lax enforcements but hard prison time (no pun intended)
If however you are talking about laws to interfere with an adults ability enjoy their pursuit of happiness that is not a legitimate function of governemnt.
As a conservative I SUPPORT LESS GOV INTERFERENCE not more.

To Solo610
"What people write is very telling as far as knowing why they come here to attack Christians. "

They come here to attack Christians because there is nothing but Christ around which for their world to revolve. They cannot or will not love Christ, so they must hate him. They cannot stay away, for this is the central aspect of their lives: their opposition to Christ and his people.

When I think how much more joyful and productive their lives and time could be if they embraced their need rather than twisting it into hateful competition, it renews my commitment to pray for them.

to Tinsldr2
Jesus said if a man look on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery already.Matthew 5:27&28

TO MSG J.C doesn't make U.S. laws
msg writes: Tuesday, October, 30, 2007 5:24 AM
to Tinsldr2
Jesus said if a man look on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery already.Matthew 5:27&28


Well take a seat because this is going to shock you but as much as YOU may choose to follow a bible it is NOT the law of the land. Jesus doesn't make laws that effect me.

I had a Bacon Cheeseburger when I was in the states yet Dueteronomy 14:8 says " and the swine, because he parteth the hoof but cheweth not the cud, he is unclean unto you; of their flesh ye shall not eat, and their carcasses ye shall not touch." I didn't violate any U.S. laws though when I ate bacon (and eating a cheeseburger is also a no go under Dueteronomy).

A legal definition of adultry is: adultery n. consensual sexual relations when one of the participants is legally married to another.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/adultery

Without physical contact with another there is no legal adultery.
I have been faithfully married for 20 years. Never had sex with another woman (and certainly not a man) in all that time. THought of other women. I joked about it. Dreamed about it. But never would cheat on my wife.

Now I am not against Christians or Jews and their beliefs. You are FREE to believe what you want and live your life how YOU want.
I have sworn a sacred oath to protect your right to do so. I am prepared to give my life for our country and our way of life. All I ask is that you don't IMPOSE your moral view on other adults.
Sure in the case mentioned of the fatehr abusing the 13 year old I will pull the trigger at his execution if he is convicted. Go after the people who use kids in their movies and never let them see the light of day again. But consenting adults? Thats between them, their partners and their Lord. And if you believe in the LORD then you know that you are NOT him.






If women would……
give-up reading romance novels, watching romantic movies and, due to both, stop fantasying about romance with men in which they don’t have a relationship, then I’ll stop abusing porn. /sarc off

bjimmy5757
What is the benefit of porn?

For about 20 years, porn saved me from…..

1. Sexual diseases.

2. Emotional stresses due to having sex when the women wanted love.

3. Having children without a relationship with the mother.

4. Marrying too young due to sexual desire.

5. Spending a lot of money while young to pursue sex.

6. Helped me to focus on getting my chemistry degree.

7. Helps sometimes in marriage especially when apart from my wife for many days.

8. Saved me from going to prostitutes--I’ve only gone once and didn’t like it.

9. Saved me from wanted/welcomed and unwanted/unwelcomed sexual advances at work.

10. Help me to have a wonderful well-balanced life includung a very good marriage and two wonderful kids without much desire for extra-marital affairs.

Wow----hit a hot spot
Tinsldr2....... I was merely making a comment in regards to your assumption that the husband of Tish had not hurt anyone but he in fact had gone against the words of Christ. Were they not Christians ???? This has nothing to do with US law but moral law and Christian beliefs. By saying that this man did not hurt anyone you are showing that you do not understand what morals are and how it affects each person. You are busy trying to protect your own Porn habits.
By the way Christians don't have any problems with eating bacon cheeseburgers.

How so knight bawwa?
"Oh please. Don't give me that puritanical and overblown garbage. To be consistent, you have to ban TV, alcohol, baseball, football, hunting, etc etc."

What bearing do banning the things you list above have on the price of tea in Sri Lanka?

Consistent?? Of what kind of consistency are you writing?



Fallacies in the article
Fallacy #1: Confusing Cause and Effect

Chuck Colson portrays pornography as the cause of child molestation and rape. Adult pornography has been around long enough now to establish any related trends in sex crimes. There are numerous studies which show no increase in sex crimes associated with increased access to pornography. In fact, some show a decrease in sex crimes. It's reasonable to assume that the human desire to think about sex is the cause, and the consumption of porn the effect. And that the type of porn consumed will be determined by the consumer's desires, as opposed to the porn being any sort of driver of those desires.

Fallacy #2: Guilt By Association

Chuck Colson portrays the entire adult industry as being some how behind or associated with child pornography. Are we to honestly lump legal videos of consenting adults together with illegal videos of raped children? And thereby impugn people who produce adult porn but have had absolutely nothing to do with child porn or the abuse of any child ever? This is beyond reasonable. In fact, I would say it's immoral to impugn an entire group of people as some how being responsible for the sick crimes of a few.

Chuck Colson also tries to associate porn with child molesters to create guilt in adult porn viewers. "Most child molesters admit that they consume hard-core porn on a regular basis." Many child molesters have been married, and had sex with their wives. Shall we impugn marital sex?

Fallacy #3: Strawman

Chuck Colson attacks sexual addiction, then cleverly interchanges that with pornography. Consuming pornography and being addicted to sex are two different things. I would agree that sexual addiction is a bad thing. But that does not mean viewing adult porn is bad because viewing adult porn is a separate thing, and not necessarily any indication of a sexual addiction.

Independent Thinker and the girl
So what happened to the girl Colson described was acceptable to you?

MSG Never assume anything
MSG
I never assumed Tish's hubby hadnt hurt her, he obviously hurt her feelings. Re-read what I said. I merely said he hadnt been unfaithfull but she had based on what she said. You replied that the Bible says he was unfaithfull. Fine as far as it goes by I was talking legally and physically.

Now he may have driven her to be unfaithfull or he may have been having an affair or all kinds of things which are none of our business and would be assumptions.

The point is they are both consenting adults. he didnt FORCE anyone, he didn't illegally Defraud anyone.

Unless the porn uses force to make the people act, (actual rape) or uses kids, or injures animals I really don't care what people do in the privacy of their home.

My bottom line is it should not be legislated based on a verse in a 2000 year old book.

As always, tinsldr2@yahoo.com

Amen brother!
kipita: I would have the same list of benefits as you. I don't know how I got through high school thinking everything was a sin. If that had continued through college and my 20's I probably would have become so depressed as to begin abusing myself. That's how stressful my sexual desire was in high school because I was taught that "lusting after women" was "evil", and I took it to heart.

Or I would have ran into a bad relationship and a broken marriage just to get some. I would say porn has saved me from a lot of pain.

Interesting fallacies there, dt
1. Any links to those numerous studies?

2. "Chuck Colson also tries to associate porn with child molesters to create guilt in adult porn viewers." Can you break this process down for the uninitiated? If a person reading Colson's column feels guilty, I could be wrong here, but maybe they feel that way because they are guilty.

3. If pornograhpy is an enabler of sexaul addiction how does that constitute a strawman?





kipita and dt
Porn may have "saved" you from having to deal with how your johnsons acquired such powerful positions in your lives. It seems to be a given for you that the orgasm is of supreme importance and without it you would die. (DT, you were raised by legalists, that is an issue with many tentacles- not pretty).

But what "saved" you from working through sexual frustration (that's all that was- not life or death) comes from the fallout of very shut down and internally fragmented girls and women- many of whom have backgrounds of sexual abuse. It is much easier for men to see women as a warm hole with mushy boobs in whcih to ejaculate and women to see themselves as having the same power and ability of a blow-up doll (which, by the way, you should opt for) within the realm of porn. Many of the girls I work with have very limited if any self preservation and it is nothing for them to do a number of guys in a couple of days, including allowing pictures and videos. Maybe you've seen them. Most of the time they are high or drunk while doing it. Gee, how wholesome and natural.

What "saves" others invariably costs someone else, but I don't suppose that matters to you.

Lusting for
our 'freedoms', we're choking on them and their filth is coming out of our nostriles.

Fallacies
"1. Any links to those numerous studies?"

http://libertus.net/censor/studies2.html

http://www.law.stanford.edu/display/images/dynamic/events_m edia/Kendall%20cover%20+%20paper.pdf

There are others if you want to search the Internet a bit.

"2. "Chuck Colson also tries to associate porn with child molesters to create guilt in adult porn viewers." Can you break this process down for the uninitiated?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

"If a person reading Colson's column feels guilty, I could be wrong here, but maybe they feel that way because they are guilty."

You are wrong. Colson never proves that a person who views porn is guilty of anything. If you feel guilty after reading his article, I would suggest an intro to logic course.

"3. If pornograhpy is an enabler of sexaul addiction how does that constitute a strawman? "

Colson didn't argue that pornography was an enabler of sexual addiction. He simply assumes the two are equal throughout the piece.

There were more fallacies. Just look at paragraph 4. Would you accept the structure of that paragraph if it read like this? "The numbers are staggering. Cold breakfast cereal is a 10-billion-dollar-a-year industry. One study revealed that more than 32 million individuals ate cold breakfast cereal in just one month. Some 800 million boxes of cold breakfast cereal are sold each month. Other surveys reveal that one in five children on the Internet receives a sexual solicitation."

To Tinsldr2 ........
and others who are trying to protect their pornographic habits. You can try to defend your habits of viewing vile filth as helping you and yours but you will not change what you are actually doing. You are still viewing porn that stains your souls.....and some day you will have to answer for that. There is a living God and you will one day stand before Him---and your excuses for lusting over women,children,and men will not be acceptable before a holy God.

Career Choices
oldsocialworker

"But what "saved" you from working through sexual frustration (that's all that was- not life or death) comes from the fallout of very shut down and internally fragmented girls and women- many of whom have backgrounds of sexual abuse."

And many do not. They simply choose their line of work and use it to make money like any other job. If you can tell me how to discern between actresses who just have a career and actresses with major emotional issues from the business, I'll gladly support only those who want to be there.

But then that's a problem with everything we buy, isn't it? Some cops finish their careers with distinction. Others break down mentally from the violence (and turn to drugs and alcohol). Some med students love their work. Some turn to stimulants or end up committing suicide because they can't handle the pressures.

Every career is going to have people who love it, and people who abhor it. How do you propose we solve THAT problem? Because if I'm going to start feeling guilty about the women in porn, I'm not going to be able to buy anything, even food!

"What "saves" others invariably costs someone else, but I don't suppose that matters to you."

Does it matter to you? Where do you buy your clothes? Do you know who made them, and under what conditions? How about your farm produce?

I'm all ears if you have a solution for this one, because it isn't limited to the porn industry. Heck, I can just about guarantee you that some of the stuff we gladly import from China is made in state run labor camps. At least the women in porn in the U.S. can choose to leave at any time.

Jesus and Gay Republicans
Someone said earlier that Democrats are more likely to look at porn. OK, maybe, but at least they don't lust for little boys, hide homosexuality behind a ministry, or try to get sex from dudes in airports. Those exploits are best left to closeted Republicans. Also...That line about Jesus and adultery would be applicable if Jesus were really the son of god. Since god isn't real, neither is his word. Thanks.

The sky is falling!
Not to defend porn, but Mr Colson makes the same hysterical claims that have always knocked the ladder out from under anti-porn crusaders in terms of credibility. Mainly that porn=crime. Well, it may well have some causation. But that's like saying that automobiles=murder because there are some vehicular homicides.

He starts by describing an act of incestuous child sexual abuse by a parent and then blames the porn. The person has committed two crimes even before the porn comes in the picture. What more can we do? How about prosecuting the crimes and see how that goes first? Millions view porn w/o molesting children. Bad example, Chuck. If an thinking person wanted to criticise the damaging effects of porn, there are plenty better places to start.

Columns like this will be about as likely to end pornography as those old movies about how marijuana would make you insane. They helped end drug abuse, right? Wait, they didn't? They actually set the cause back a century? Oh. Nevermind.

very sad
The many pro-pornagraphy comments are deeply disappointing. Let me offer my perspective as a young married woman. How can women be expected to love you when you show no sense of honour and no capability of self-restraint or self-criticism? It's sad how fast values change when it becomes easier to get away with something. I think you should require more from yourselves.

dt and fallacies continued
Thanks for the link to censorship in Australia and your Stanford link resolves to a 404 on their end (document not found).

I won't take the time to peruse the rest of the web for the numerous studies you cited earlier.

Irene Graham (Australia) gives no bio so we don't know her credentials or really her motivation so in the absence of other information, I must conclude that she is either a pornography consumer or derives income from the porn industry by direct participation or support for her lobbying efforts.

The first offering in your Austrailian link 'R18 material: its potential impact on people under 18 - An overview of the available literature', is not direct research but merely a survey of literature available on the topic. Publication dates for other cited references range from 1986 to 2001 not recent at all.

Your Wiki citation may very well apply to what Colson has written, but you fail to address how Colson can MAKE you or anyone else feel guilty. Isn't that like stating these words I am typing make you feel guilty?

OK, Colson uses a strawman.

But how does pornography benefit society as a whole or the "greater good"? Would you give up pornography for the "greater good"?

Finally, pornography isn't breakfast cereal.

15 yr old mentalities
dt writes: Tuesday, October, 30, 2007 7:32 AM
Amen brother!
kipita: I would have the same list of benefits as you. I don't know how I got through high school thinking everything was a sin. If that had continued through college and my 20's I probably would have become so depressed as to begin abusing myself. That's how stressful my sexual desire was in high school because I was taught that "lusting after women" was "evil", and I took it to heart.

Or I would have ran into a bad relationship and a broken marriage just to get some. I would say porn has saved me from a lot of pain.
--
You should start a support group for men unable to actually act like adults without blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. If porn saved you from a lot of pain then I certainly hope you hold no position in the community where another human's safety or security is based upon your valuation of their usefulness. Good luck on those relationships.

zzx375
Child pornography or abuse of children is horrible. Rape is horrible and forcing someone into porn is horrible. Lets lock up everyone who is in anyway involved in harming kids or rape.

Now you ask would I give up porn, filmed and viewed by consenting adults that consisted only of consenting adults for the "greater good" of society.

Simply ,the asnwer is NO because there is no benifit to the greater good. Once you take children and rape out of the question, and remember I am agaisnt those two things, there is a greater HARM in LEGISLATING away my right to pursue happiness. Once you go down the slippery slope of making porn illegal where does it stop.
I don't particularly like Rap so can we outlaw that? I don't like Country much either while we are at it. I do like ROck and roll but there is no redeeming need to lsiten to Eric Clapton sing about cocaine so lets ban him.
I am in Iraq for 15 months. I am faithful to my wife I love, but I have a sex drive so well you figure out what I and thousands of others will do. It wont be have sex with another person that is for sure.

Treasonous, Dolly,
and other porn lovers.

Wow, you sound like wonderful, bright,
interesting, well-connected to the human race
sort of people.

Wish I could get to know you better. I know that
people in the business are always stellar
human beings that we should all try to emulate.
The producers (the epitome of rampant
capitalism), the stars (perennial victims of
abuse at home, drugs, you name it). Who could
not want to keep this business alive.

Howard Stern, slobbering, on legitimate media.
Don't you just love it.

Hugh Hefner - Sexiest Man Alive.


Addictions
It seems as if Colson is confusing two different types of addictions. There is a distinct difference between addiction to pornography and addiction to sex itself. The porn addict requires such materials to be present while engaged in a sexual act in order to gain arousal as well as using the material to construct vivid sexual fantasies which seldom are acted out. The porn addict actually has sexual contact with another person very infrequently since he or she has minimal social contacts as well as the belief that no real contact can be as satisfying as his or her fantasies. Sex addicts are just the opposite. They are highly social, but the pleasure they seek is almost exclusively physical and involves very little fantasy.

Now as far as "dangerous" addictions go, I find it laughable that pornography is such a grave threat. The number of porn addicts is INSIGNIFICANT when compared to the number of people addicted to:
1. Alcohol
2. Drugs (both illegal and prescription)
3. Cigarettes
4. Food
Certainly there is some crossover between ALL addictions, but the four examples listed above are VASTLY more damaging to individuals and society as a whole than pornography. So, a lot more perspective, please!

heh
it sounds like the same illrational argument Jack Thompson has for banning video games.

i have played hundreds of violent video games and i have never killed anyone or even considered killing some one (other than decided to be a marine which doesnt count)

stupid argument like this hurt the movement

white ribbon week
When I went to Breakpoint, I could find no information about white ribbon week. I will try other places.

pansies for porn
Too many men have exchanged their strength and their magnificence for worthless lies and empty fantasies (PORN) leaving you shallow, hollow people who know everything about surviving and nothing about really living. Men have become enslaved by evil and have given up all that is worth passionately living and sacrificially dying for.

To be a MAN is to choose to act with courage, commitment and perseverance on behalf of the women and children in our communities. It is to hate all that objectifies and demeans them and to embrace with a passion every opportunity have to stand up for them and intercede on their behalf. Only then will men be worthy of the manhood to which you are called.

Men who choose to use pornography are immature and self-centered and are incapable of real love.


annfan
"...the truth is that Colson is right on the money. You failed to notice his main point, which is that porn, like other addictions, keeps people from knowing their Creator intimately."
No, what prevents us from knowing our Creator intimately is His vastly superior nature.

Intimacy is only possible with equals.

Nice Dolly
Dolly Llama writes: Tuesday, October, 30, 2007 10:47 AM
Worst persons in the world!!!
Solo: "Somehow you think using the worst examples of Christians"
-----------------
In my experience, they are more representative than anything else...."

Take a look in the mirror, you will find a great example to use for your future comments, guaranteed.

Psycho wife What about women
psychopathic wife writes:
Men who choose to use pornography are immature and self-centered and are incapable of real love.

........................
I have been married 20 years to same woman and she is great. We have watched it together and had steamy sex afterwards. Now that is different then making love which we do also and more importantly we express love in mainly non-sexual ways.

Anyway it is a rather silly discussion thread but I had lots of time to reply today.

Read More
I find that the discussions about Porn are similar to those of juries that find it hard to convict someone of driving while drunk.

It's really hard to condemn someone for doing something bad that you do yourself. I think that is at the heart of this issue.

Porn is so all-pervasive that we have either become inured to it, or we are addicted and don't want to risk it going away (or at least more difficult to obtain).

I recommend anyone who would like to learn more about this problem pick up a copy of SALVO Issue 2, Spring 2007.

Lots of facts and figures. The most scary is the rise in child pornography.

As far as victimless...talk to a wife of someone who's been addicted to porn. Talk to the lost souls that are participants (can't call them actors) in the filming of pornography....

No one can claim this is a victimless crime. It is not.

Independent Thinker
You raise the argument of watching violence on TV and equating that to Porn. The big difference is that they FAKE the murders on the movie/tv show.

The same cannot be said for porn. Real people allowing everything from natural to unnatural acts to be performed upon or by themselves for the camera and distribution to millions of strangers.

If you don't worry for the people that watch this stuff, why do you not care for those who sell their bodies, dignity and (often) health for your entertainment?


mrs Paddy
you said, "If you don't worry for the people that watch this stuff, why do you not care for those who sell their bodies, dignity and (often) health for your entertainment?"

What people want to do with their own bodies should be up to them. After all, it is THEIR body they are using, not someone else's. As a lover of personal freedom, I believe that, as porn is legal, so should prostitution (and drugs) be.
Like alcohol, that has the potential to do damage if not used properly, they should be controlled and by and for adults only.
Child pornography should be illegal along with any type of coerced activity.
As for those who believe that pornography is a sin or affront against God, that is THEIR perogative. What is not their perogative is to tell those who feel otherwise what they can or should do or not do.
What you and some others here are doing is, the same as people who blame alcohol or drugs, blaming inanimate substances and thoughts for the untoward behavior of a portion of society that misuses them.
I know it's come to be a hackeyed phrase, but it is nevertheless true that: "Guns don't kill people; but some people kill other people."

Independent Thinker
I'm not advocating absolute censorship. I do however, believe that this is not a victimless crime, and I think it is sad that everyone gives it a pass.

What do you think is society's responsibility in protecting our children? The same folks who think it is too traumatic to keep score at a baseball game for kids think it is fine for them to be exposed to images of hyper-sexuality and porn that just pops up on the internet randomly.

Not fair to say that it is parental responsibility when it arrives unsolicited to your email in Spam, is linked to lots of websites that surprise you with 'gotcha'

I think some regulation is required. Maybe pay per view for really hard-corp pornography. Unfortunately, that is a value judgement, and you don't seem to want to impose any values on anything that might impact your freedoms.

With freedom comes responsibility. My concern is that total freedom results in anarchy.

How do you see policing the growing problem of child pornography? Good grief, now school districts (Portland Maine) are handing out birth control pills and condoms to 11 year old children!

What constitutes a child anymore?

Porn does not reach happy people
If you believe that porn is bad, do not watch it.

America has plenty of hypocorism on issues of sex and nudity. Human’s body is God given. With greater tolerance for nudity in art and mass culture, there would be less attraction to porn.

Only one who cannot do it otherwise, seeks happiness in porn. However, it is erroneous blaming porn for people being not happy. Unhappy people reach for porn, porn does not reach happy people.

hak
Too simplistic. It's like saying that happy people don't smoke, or drink, or use drugs.

What's your next argument? Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Try again, Chuck
The situation described in the opening paragraphs is almost completely irrelevant.

"There is no longer any doubt that pornography inspires crime. Most child molesters admit that they consume hard-core porn on a regular basis" isn't very convincing either. Reminds me of W.F. Buckley's quip about most hard-core drug users starting out with marijuana: "...like pointing out that most rapists started out by masturbating."

In the penultimate paragraph, you encourage us to "help shut down illegal, hard-core porn in your own town." Is this just sloppy editing? If it's already illegal, hasn't it been shut down already?

Your intentions are good, I'm sure, but this is just more legalistic morality-mongering. As Malcolm Smith has said, when Hugh Hefner repents and turns to Christ, THAT's a significant, Godly event [or words to that effect].

mrs Paddy
Apparently you did not read my post, or did not read it very thoroughly, which is apparent from your running on about child pornography--of which I expressly said: "Child pornography should be illegal along with any type of coerced activity."

As for your saying: "I do however, believe that this is not a victimless crime..."
Pornography, when fictional or involving consenting adults, is not a crime--at all.

What I think of socitey's responsibility to protect children is that it is FIRST the parents' responsibilty to shield their children from things that the children shouldn't have, like drugs, alcohol an any other thing that may be harmful or inappropriate for their children.

Finally, a public school (read government) taking it upon themselves to usurp the rights of parents in the way they are trying to do in Maine, and the way they have already done in various ways dealing with sex and children is an abomination. But it has nothing to do with adult pornography.

Professional opinion
I work in community mental health -- primarily with the chronically mentally ill and substance abusers. At the other end of the building, we have children's mental health services. All of the professionals I associate with on a daily basis agree that pornography objectifies people and encourages imitation of inappropriate sexual activity. Oddly, many of them are quite comfortable with the idea of teens and adults having sex as often as they like and with whomever they want whenever they want. They don't see that as a problem (go figure). However, a walk down the hall and a quick vote revealed that they all feel that pornography encourages to child molestation, rape, and harmful sex practices like anal sex (which results in anal prolapse, which the doctors here say is bad). So, just from a professional mental health standpoint, pornography isn't considered healthy.

Opposing pornography isn't just for Christians anymore.

Independent Thinker
My reading comprehension is just fine.

You seemed to think that I was for censorship, and I didn't bring that up at all.

I think you ignore the harm that pornography does to our society, regardless the child pornography aspect.

My problem is there are no limitations on it as far as access and it is ubiquitous.

We regulate fuel emmissions, food safety, water quality etc. etc. Why not regulate access to porn? Then it can be for adults only.

Tinsldr2 - last question
"Simply ,the asnwer is NO because there is no benifit to the greater good. Once you take children and rape out of the question, and remember I am agaisnt those two things, there is a greater HARM in LEGISLATING away my right to pursue happiness. Once you go down the slippery slope of making porn illegal where does it stop. "

What exactly is the nature of the harm you speak of above? I doesn't appear to be the same kind of harm as would be inflicted by withholding insulin from a diabetic or chemotherapy from a cancer patient.



To Dolly
"Is it really any wonder that Christians visit men's rooms to have anonymous sex?"

You keep making these foolish statements about Christians.
My wife and I have run our marriage by Christian principles and have been rather pleasantly satisfied for (so far) 19 years.
If I had to guess from your malicious tone, I'd say that any dissatisfaction might lie on your part.

God made us, he knows how we function best. Christians mess it all up just as badly as anyone else when we ignore this.

Pursuit of Happiness?
Pamela Paul, author of the book, Pornified, notes statistical and anecdotal evidence that indicts pornography for destroying our ability to relate to one another and ourselves,
Extensive Statistical research & 100s of interviews finds that regular viewers or pornography were
-less happy
-more likely to suffer from impotence
-more likely to engage in risky/illegal sexual activity
-more unhappy with their partners and themselves
-women devastated by their husband's/boyfriend's addiction
-normal sexual appetites progressed to violent & criminal behavior after being numbed by fantasies on the net
-wasted work hours from online porn during the business day & at home
-subsequent lost opportunities for dating/professional prospects and
-self-image degradation
-normalizing behaviors that 20 yrs ago would have been nearly criminal
-young girls sexualizing themselves
-younger and younger men obsessed over porn-star persona
-people who prefer fantasy to reality
-objectification of women
Source: SALVO issue 2 spring 2007

But of course, it isn't harmful, and makes everybody happy.

The Victims of Lingerie
--
By the same token, of course, Mr. Colson can put forth precisely the same whackjob claim about how women's fashion undergarments can be (and, for all he knows, *are*) used to "groom" little boys and girls as candidates for sexual abuse.

Somehow, I have my doubts that a former Nixon White House staffer has any qualifications with regard to speaking about sexual perversions.

Or perhaps - with his prison record - he has...?


--
"A word about pornography. You'll need it. Lots of it. The dirty, filthy, degrading kind. But keep it well hidden. Don't discount secret wall panels, trick drawers, holes in the yard, etc. Especially if you have teenage boys or a Baptist wife with a housekeeping obsession. Also keep in mind that you could die at any moment and nothing puts a crimp in the funeral worse than having the bereaved family wonder what kind of sick, perverted beast you were under that kind and genteel exterior."

..--John Hughes, "Very Married Sex" *National Lampoon*, February 1979

Mrs. Paddy
You are exactly right about porn having no victims. While less important I have to say frankly that the knowledge that someone regularly sits bent in the dark lecherously ogling kinky images on the blue glow of a computer screen would cause me to lose all respect for them especially if they were not struggling to overcome the addiction. Were I single I would never date such a person and I certainly would make sure they were never alone with my children.

Heffner
Several posts above have mentioned Hugh Heffner.

Heffner who has been reported to spend all day in a silk bathrobe with a locket of viagra hanging from his neck.

I believe he is probably one of the loneliest men in the world.

SteveL trying too hard
SteveL writes: Monday, October, 29, 2007 7:44 PM
for Grumpy
Grumpy writes: "I do believe that incest existed before porn: let me check the Bible and see."

Actually, porn (in the sense of erotic depictions of women) may have existed before the Bible was written:

"Stone-Age figurines depicting what could be the oldest pornographic scene in the world have been unearthed in Germany.
"Archaeologists have discovered what they believe to be the 7,200-year-old remnants of a man having intercourse with a woman....the first figurine that clearly depicted male sexual organs."

http://tinyurl.com/4r7pg

If after 7,200 years, we haven't gotten rid of porn, maybe we'll never be able to ban it entirely, but find ways to reduce any harm that can result from it.
___________________________________________

Steve, your post is really forced, kind of like you had time on your hands. The stone age art is not necessarily porn, you know that. You, as a social lib, are saying that because we haven't been able to get rid of it, that we should "find ways to reduce any harm that can result from it," but should say "the harm that results from it." Typical lib/lefty nonsense. Porn was under control for a long time, it was generally considered filthy and apparently not easy to get. Now the lib/lefties have arranged so that it be considered "one man's art" as in one man's porn is another man's art.

Religion
Religion inspired the papal Inquisition and 9/11.

Should religion be regulated?

Religion
I believe that the free expression of religion is covered (and protected) in our Constitution. I don't recall it mentioning pornography, specifically.

dbz77
Please, do we really have to continue down the path of illeteracy as it relates to religion and human atrocities?

Men and women are not perfect. That some of them abuse religion to commit crimes against humanity does not mean relgion itself is bad. This is childlike thinking.

And for the record the number of atrocities commited by the non religious far far outnumbers anything done in the name of religion.

Christian teaching already regulates
dbz77 writes: 2:09 AM
Religion
Religion inspired the papal Inquisition and 9/11.

Should religion be regulated?
-----------

The believer, in actions, deeds and thought, if they will obey.
Death by government is what to fear, over 200 million murdered last century.
The Inquisition, although bad, killed less than 2000 people over the space of 400 years

Philippians 4:8 -
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Romans 12:17 -
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

2 Corinthians 8:21 -
Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

2 Corinthians 13:7 -
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.



1 Peter 2:12 -
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

--------

Men have the power to disobey and still, can call themselves Christian.




Barak
So the papal Inquisition and 9/11 were hoaxes?

Why blame porn for child sexual abuse, and yet give religion a free pass?

mrs Paddy -
I would have to read the book to judge the statistical evidence. But just on the face of it, here are my reactions to some of the claims you list:

"Extensive Statistical research & 100s of interviews finds that regular viewers or pornography were
-more likely to suffer from impotence"

This is very counter intuitive. Are you honestly suggesting that material designed to arouse in fact does the opposite? If the author found and interviewed some impotent porn viewers, is it not far more likely that they are impotent for other reasons, and turning to porn to try and deal with the issue?

"-more likely to engage in risky/illegal sexual activity
-normal sexual appetites progressed to violent & criminal behavior after being numbed by fantasies on the net"

Every study I've seen (and I've listed plenty below) show the exact opposite. Is there even one that can support that view?

"-more unhappy with their partners and themselves"
"-women devastated by their husband's/boyfriend's addiction"

I would want to see this evidence analyzed according to the partner's attitude about porn. $100 says that couples where both partners have positive attitudes about porn are more happy with each other and enjoy it together.

"-normalizing behaviors that 20 yrs ago would have been nearly criminal"

There are so many problems with that statement, I'm not sure where to begin. Define "nearly criminal"? Doesn't that in fact mean perfectly legal? What were the laws 20 years ago, and why are they the standard for judgement above the laws for today? Or maybe the laws from 200 years ago? I can think of many very harmful laws from the past 100 years. What behaviors? "Normal" or "abnormal" by what standards? Why?

"-young girls sexualizing themselves"

Are young girls viewing porn? Or poor role models who are, never the less, outside the porn industry?

zzx375 -
"Irene Graham (Australia) gives no bio so we don't know her credentials or really her motivation so in the absence of other information, I must conclude that she is either a pornography consumer or derives income from the porn industry by direct participation or support for her lobbying efforts."

Funny...you don't give your credentials or motivation either. So in the absence of other information, I must conclude you're bent on destroying American liberties, starting with the First Amendment.

Oh...wait...hmmm...assuming that you are motivated by a particular "side", then using that assumption to "prove" your opinion wrong would be a...DOUBLE FALLACY. Let's refrain from committing those, shall we?

"The first offering in your Austrailian link 'R18 material: its potential impact on people under 18 - An overview of the available literature', is not direct research but merely a survey of literature available on the topic."

Perhaps you should use that survey as a reading list?

"Publication dates for other cited references range from 1986 to 2001 not recent at all."

What's your point? Einstein's E = mc2 is "not recent at all", so I guess you would toss a physics book?

"Your Wiki citation may very well apply to what Colson has written, but you fail to address how Colson can MAKE you or anyone else feel guilty. Isn't that like stating these words I am typing make you feel guilty?"

I said he was trying to make people feel guilty using fallacies to make pornography appear "bad".

"But how does pornography benefit society as a whole or the "greater good"? Would you give up pornography for the "greater good"?"

Fallacy of false dilemma.

"Finally, pornography isn't breakfast cereal."

Likewise, pornography sales are not sex crime.
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