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Monday, December 17, 2007
Charles Mitchell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Mitt Romney Shares Evangelical Principles
by Charles Mitchell
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As we have said since the earliest days of this campaign cycle, the 2008 election is for president, not pastor. Conservative evangelicals need a president who shares our political and moral values and priorities, can win in 2008, and can govern effectively thereafter by articulating and implementing a values-based governing strategy. This is just what Mitt Romney did as governor and will do as president — and that's why the six co-bloggers at Evangelicals for Mitt support him. With the first primary votes less than a month away, it's time you joined us.

Governor Romney Shares Our Political & Moral Values

Political and moral values are informed by — but not the same as — one's religion. That's why we shouldn't casti our votes based on whose theology we like most. History shows that to be a poor approach.

For example, in 1980 voters had two choices: a divorced movie actor who did not regularly attend church and was not on good terms with all of his children, and a once-married Southern Baptist whose evangelicalism was at the core of his national identity. Voting on the basis of whose doctrine was better would have meant electing the second guy — Jimmy Carter — over the first, Ronald Reagan. Excluding those who don't hold to orthodox Christianity would also have meant excluding such great Americans as Thomas Jefferson — who denied the divinity of Christ — from positions of authority. Is anybody going to argue someone else should've written the Declaration of Independence?

Today, America needs a president who embraces a comprehensive and positive values agenda: standing for the sanctity of life, protecting traditional marriage, defending religious liberty and basic human rights at home and abroad, combating poverty and disease within the world's poorest communities, fighting for better quality of life for our citizens, and winning the War on Terror.

That's not to say doctrine doesn't matter — it does, very much, in our churches and in our individual relationships with God. But this is a presidential election, and those are about values. Governor Romney is the only candidate with all the right ones. One of his opponents (Mayor Giuliani) is simply not with conservative evangelicals on our bread-and-butter issues — life and marriage — and perhaps even more disturbingly, another opponent (Governor Huckabee) has virtually nothing to say about winning the War on Terror. That's probably the ultimate values issue, since the people we are fighting hate our values and want to destroy our civilization.

Governor Romney Can Win in 2008

The Supreme Court is one vote short of overturning Roe v. Wade, and the next president will likely nominate two or three justices. But he can't do that if he loses to President Hillary Rodham Clinton. Governor Romney can beat her — and the rest of the Democratic field. As a fiscal and social conservative, he's the only candidate who can hold the Reagan coalition together. Plus, he has already put together a strong, well-organized campaign with the firepower to win. Every single other GOP candidate either alienates a key part of the coalition or has weak a operation incapable of defeating a well-funded, ruthless, counter-to-our-values opponent in the general election.

Governor Romney Can Govern Effectively Thereafter

It's worth reprising: The Republican nominee must be both a fiscal and social conservative. That's the Reagan formula for success. When it breaks down, Republicans lose. And it will break down if Republicans nominate a candidate who says public funding for abortions is a constitutional right (Mayor Giuliani) or one who's known nationally for hiking taxes and spending money (Governor Huckabee).

But there's more than that. Above all else, the president has to lead — he has to be a good executive. And as much as we love President Bush, we've seen far too many examples in recent years of poor performance in this regard. Not only that, Washington is a tough town — and that will be true whether the Democrats continue to control Congress after 2008 or not. In that environment, leadership — especially conservative leadership — isn't easy.

Fortunately, Governor Romney has been a leader longer than he has been a politician. Prior to his political career, Governor Romney helped to launch the very successful Bain Capital — which helped launch such successful franchises as Staples and the Sports Authority — and then led a turnaround at Bain Consulting. He also saved the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City which, prior to his leadership, were mired in debt and corruption but subsequently became one of the most successfully-run Games in memory.

And he's governed in a difficult political environment, too. Massachusetts is the most left-wing state in the union. If you think Bay State Democrats aren't any different from their Arkansan counterparts, try defending traditional marriage or vetoing stem-cell funding up in Boston, as Governor Romney did, and see what they do. (As for New York City Democrats, I don't even know how they would react to such values-based governing, because I can't think of anyone who's tried it.) But Governor Romney did — in addition to helping turn the economy around, opposing driver's licenses and in-state college tuition for illegal immigrants, and defending Catholic Charities' right to restrict adoptions to man-woman couples. No other candidate has a record of such successful, across-the-board conservative leadership — especially on such hostile terrain.

Summing It All Up

Mitt Romney has been a standout conservative governor of a very leftist state. He believes in the traditional family, and he has fought for it — just ask Massachusetts' pro-family leaders. He's admitted he was wrong on abortion, and is now solidly pro-life — as his record in Massachusetts testifies. He also opposes embryonic stem cell research's speculative and open-ended carelessness with human life. He's shown courage under fire in several challenging situations, and has lived out his values (both publicly and privately) during a time when other Republicans, sadly, have not.

Conservative evangelicals do not have to compromise on our values this election: Gov. Romney embodies all the principles for which we've long fought. Plus, he has the organizational strength, executive experience, and moral rectitude to remind us what being a conservative is all about.

In other words, he's not just a candidate evangelicals can support — he's the best choice for people of faith. It's not even close. He's the only Republican candidate who can unite our party and win in November.

And the reality is: It's time to choose. If we refuse to support Governor Romney, the next president will definitely be a pro-choicer, probably one named Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Come on, brothers and sisters — let's get serious.

In the interests of full disclosure, EFM co-founder Nancy French has served as a consultant to Romney for President, Inc. The other members of the EFM team do not work for the Romney campaign, and the campaign has no editorial influence on or control over the site.

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About The Author
Charles Mitchell edits the independent blog Evangelicals for Mitt.
Principles of Romney
Romenys principles
1Become a God
2Say hello to his Heavenly Mother, Mrs. God
3. Say hello to all the other Gods
4. Have some babies
5. Have some more babies
6, Photo opp with Mormon missionaries in the White House
7. Photo opp reading the Book of Mormon
8. Call Salt Lake fo rhe latest revelation

Do you really think all those folks who thought Geroge Bush was God's choice are going to get excited about the Devil running the White House?

Governing principles
Mr Videoranger: you are correct in the unusual doctrines of the LDS church. I would say that 'evangelical principles' include the Nicene and Athanasian historic creeds, which LDS rejects. Nevertheless, the governing principles of rational policymaking, well thought out and executed policies, are principles that Christians and everyone else should be able to support.

Romney's Problem
Is that he actually practices what he preaches (so to speak). Americans like a redemption story, that's why we voted W. Bush (Alchohol) and that's why we voted for Bill Clinton (Sexaholic). Mitt Romney has been married to one woman for 35 years and has five children all of who are successful in their own careers and families - BORING!!!!

American's love people who change and overcome their own addictions, that's why I'm voting for Mike Huckabee because he lost 100lbs and overcame food addiction.

Way to go Mike!


Romney Refuses to take Responsibility
for any of his decisions or actions. Here is the list - On marriage definition, he makes an executive decision to define marriage as person A to person B, removing gender and number of people in the definition. He says - it was the supreme court that made me do it! On abortion, he changes his mind 4 times in 5 years for political expediency. He says - a dead relative made me do it! On immigration, he hires illegal aliens to work on his lawn. He says - the contractor made me do it! On gun control, he says he is a big hunter then changes that to a small animal hunter (guess he did not want to offend animal rights people). He says - the NRA endorsed me - but there is no record of this endorsement. DOES ROMNEY EVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING?

Charles, I am crying now.....
what moral values? I agree with the shared values of political expediency but moral values? conservative voters are not for sale! Any democrate has a higher chance of uniting the center-left than Romney has of uniting the center-right. Romney's problem is that his multiple positions on ALL social issues (2 years ago) and his affiliation with a sexist and racist institutions (30 years ago)offends people across all lines women, blacks, hispanics, and of course christians and social conservatives. He will be lucky to get 38%. Nothing about Romney inspires conservatives to get out the vote. Also his record will be a good reason to stay home. A republican can not win a general election without conservatives and minorities. 20% stay home, 45% vote Hillary and 35% vote Romney. It is 1992 all over again!!!!!!!!

Videoranger, you're a ringer
You're not for real. What garbage.

Sarah
here's a tissue. Go ahead and keep it (I certainly won't be needing it - no tears for me). You're going to need it a lot since Mitt's going to be the next President.

Romney all the way.

You'll be surprised about getting out the vote.

The economy will be in tough straits in 2008. The country will be looking at a choice between one of the greatest change operators in recent American history, and a quasi-Marxist (Hillary, Obama, and Edwards . . . ).

When the economy is the #1 issue, the tax-raising Marxists will make big promises, but their tax-raising plans (when people will already be cash strapped) will turn people off, big time. They will go with the proven change leader.

Romney in a landslide.

A Brilliant Analysis
Romney is a genuine leader. His accomplishments are fully documented for all to see. He was so impressive on Meet The Press; certainly more unflappable than Mr. "ya but" Russert who tied Rudy in knots a couple of weeks ago. I am so impressed with Charles Mitchell and Nancy French and the other EFM. Their positions are in such stark contrast to the narrow-minded evangelical hate-mongers who inhabit these blogs.

Drex is loving a coming recession
Just like the Democrats, what a coincidence.

You are counting on some hardship/failure/defeat in order to usher in your little Napoleon, Romney.


Mitt is IT
I echo what Christian said, Mitt was unflappable with Russert today on Meet the Press. Russert did all he could to come up with past quotes from newspaper columns to see if he could rattle him but to no avail.

Russert does his homework and he through everything and the kitchen sink at him, and Mitt came through like he was chatting to his best friend. Yes, he has flipped on a few issues in the past, but who hasn't. The point is, as Mitchell pointed out in his column, he is the full package.

His appearance on Meet the Press was so refreshing...a conservative who can not only explain what true conservatism is, but can defend it with vigger and zeal. Something our current administration cannot do. You could put him in front of the White House Press crew right now and he would eat them for lunch.

He's got the right stuff...all the way around.

Romney, the flipping flopper
I could care less if he belongs to Heavens Gate or Jim Jones Temple,Branch Davidians or the Mormons, the man is nothing today that he will be tomorrow, just as he not today what he was yesterday.

Solid in one area only, flipping and flopping.
Watch this and ask yourself ...The Real Romney, ..is who?
94 Debate with Kennedy
Makes Kennedy look like a Right Winger, and that is worth an Academy Award .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI


Pro Abortion Mitt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI


Anyone know what this guy says today?
Doesn't matter, he doesn't even know himself.
At least until he gets the poll numbers refreshed

Romney is the Right Man
Even if you think his brand of theology is off base, how can you deny his success in business? He is undeniably brilliant. He is undeniably an extraordinary manager.

Consider this. The Olympics was in disarray. Advertisers and supporters were backing out. The Olympics were $357 million over budget. Romney came in with everything to lose, and turned it into a huge success with a $59 million profit (including donating his own salary). Do you think his theology prevented him from making rational management decisions?

All you naysayers are doing an injustice to your country. You keep playing the '94 debate tape as if that should have any impact. Romney's not only changed his position on abortion, he's led the fight in his state. Just Google "An Open Letter Regarding Governor Mitt Romney" to see that fellow social conservatives in Massachusetts praise his leadership.

Drex, NRA endorsement?
If any objective voters thinks his record is inconsistent, making up endorsements was the final nail on that cofin. In one sentence, Mitt managed to alienate NRA votes and diminish any credibility left. How can an american presidential candidate not know who endorsed him? Is Mitt dillusional? I think the NRA endorsement was revealed to Joe Smith and is a well hidden secret for the saints.....I feel sad for him, honestly I do.

romney flips and his church flips
And I dont trust either of them.

Mit flip flopped on abortion and gay rights, and inflicted a mandatory health insurance scheme on massachusetts citizens that they did not want-they now have to buy an expensive health insurance policy with high deductibles and co-pays and chock full of preexisting conditions that are not even covered! like heart disease, former breast and uterine cancer patients, etc. No thanks Mitt.

as for religion:

Like it or not, if Romney becomes the Republican nominee,Democrats will bring up the "Mormon racism" charge again. You can just bet on it.

|The fact is, it has become routine to expect political campaigns for candidates to be asked about their association with institutions that discriminate.

There was a huge uproar in the 2000 campaign, for example, about George W. Bush and Bob Jones University.

The issue now is whether that kind of question also applies to Romney's church.

And the problem, for Romney, is tha he has not said simply that the LDS church was wrong to exclude blacks from the priesthood and top leadership positions before 1978.

Voters don't mind it – they even like it – when a candidate says something in the past was wrong but that now it is right. But today, on "Meet the Press," Romney wouldn't say that.

Until 1978, no black American was permitted to hold even the lowly position of deacon in the Mormon Church, and nor were any (not that there were many applicants) admitted to the sacred rites of the temple.

Why should Romney not be asked to give an account of himself?

A black candidate with ties to Louis Farrakhan could expect questions about his faith in the existence of the mad scientist Yakub, creator of the white race, or in the orbiting mother ship visited by the head of the Nation of Islam.

What gives Romney an exemption?




Tryor, Mitt just can't make
up endorsements, okay? And his change of heart was 18-24 months ago. On stem cell, Mitt thinks killing embroys using private money is okay, just not tax payers. On raising taxes, he says there is a difference between using fees not taxes to fund mandatory healthcare. Nobody has overlooked his business success, I am happy for him. However, fiscal conservatives who are economically minded know a risky investment when they see one. Mitt's stock is overpriced and his market share is decreasing. Today's interview did not draw any undecided voters to his side. Making up an NRA endorsement, that is where americans draw the line of political expediency - dude?

eli, you and Drex pray
that Mitt's Money can buy a quick NRA endorsement - or he will spend the next 3 weeks trying to explain his "new found position" on NRA endorsements. Is he dillusional? really? making up an endorsement on national MTP? when he is trying to explain an inconsistent record? aaaaahhhhh, I am crying now.

Romney, Racism, Book of Mormon
Not only will Romney NOT be able to ever win the South, not only will Romney NOT be able to buy the voters, thanks to having Mike Huckabee as the clear social conservative alternative, and not only is Romney a full-on FLiP-FLOPPER, but if, and that's a very BIG IF Romney were to get the GOP nomination:

O you can be SURE the dems will definately bring up the racist mormon stuff and they won't do it lightly like the repubs (mostly white) are doing it all hush-hush, trying to portray Romney's Mormon problem" as some "chistian demoninational difference thing." No, the dems will take that to the forefront to the point we won't even be able to look at Romney without picturing him wearing a white sheet and carrying burning a cross.

And if you think it's only African Americans who are bothered about the racism in the Book of Mormon, think again. The "scriptures" were not only directed to black people, but anyone with dark sking, which includes dark skinned Indians, Italians, Sicilians, Spanish--all of which is my ancestry. I am outraged as well and everyone who cares about racial equality will be too when they find out things like this:

The Book of Mormon clearly states that God curses certain individuals with dark skin; the races are determined by how worthy individuals were prior to this mortal life; blacks were not as faithful in their first estate; and that God cursed people with dark skin to keep them from interbreeding with their white brethren; and that God blessed some who repented with white skin. NOTE: Nothing concerning the change in "doctrine" allowing blacks to the priesthood in 1978 invalidates or denounces the racist scriptures still currently in the Book of Mormon."

The Book of Mormon: 527-8; Alma 3:6-9; 2 Ne. 5:21-4; and 3 Ne. 2:14-6).

RACIST DOCTRINE: http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm

Romney's MAIN problem is he will not denounce the Book of Mormon.

Fred has my support
but should he not make it, I may switch to Romney, despite my being a 30-year excommunicant of LDS. He is running for president right now, not Mormon "pope."

Great Article--Thanks!
Charles, I've enjoyed your posts at EFM, so I'm glad you've brought your well-reasoned thoughts to TH.

I've watched Mitt since the 2002 Olympics and have been impressed with everything he's done. It's exciting to have such a great presidential candidate this time around. Mitt is the real deal! Let's make him our nominee and let him show the Dems how shallow their candidates are.

I'm confident that thinking Republicans will understand the value of a Romney presidency.

Question Mormonism and You’re a Bigot?
Do you think this is fair?

TH-MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O’Donnell was recently cross examined by syndicated radio host and blogger Hugh Hewitt regarding statements O’Donnell made about Mormonism as a panelist on The McLaughlin Group. Here’s part of what O’Donnell said on McLaughlin:

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/question-mormonism -and-youre-a-bigot


You All Make Me Laugh and Cry
I have never heard such funny stories about the Mormon Church. They are Classic. Black vs. White, but I prefer color, it makes all the difference.

Check out the following link, if you want the real scoop on the Mormons and blacks, you just might not believe it, but the stories on this thread are that bad.

http://www.blacklds.org

You will never think the same again, ever!

But be forewarned, it is not for the faint in heart. Cheers.

Opposition in all things
The furor with the possibility that Romney might be the Republican candidate is inspired by whom??? the opposition??? Who is opposed to a good man running for president???

Mormons are racist
The LDS doctrine has always relegated the black man to an inferior status, claiming that he is black because of his actions in the pre-exitent world. They say he was cursed with black skin - so according to LDS theology black skin is a curse. A very interesting book you might try to acquire is titled, "Mormonism and the Negro," by John J. Stewart, first published in 1960. Stewart was the Vice President of BYU and Vice Administrator of the Unified School System of the LDS, and a member of the Utah Bar Assoc. This book was actually "a sermon published by request" and is an authoritative publication recognized by the LDS (or at least it was - they may disavow it now). He states the LDS policy as: "Negroes and other people with Negroid blood can become members of the Church, and through righteous works receive patriarchal blessings, enter the temple to receive baptism for the dead, become heirs to the Celestial kingdom and otherwise partake of many blessings afforded worthy members of the Church, but they cannot be ordained to the Priesthood, nor are they eligible for marriage in an LDS temple; Negroes and non-Negroes should not intermarry." This succinctly stated the official LDS position as it had been for over a century, and in fact was the position until the 1978 "revelation."

Mormons are racist part 2
Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we are now entitled to." (emphasis mine). (Young defined the black man as anyone who had even "one drop" of Negro blood in him.) Young claimed this was a revelation from God, so did God change his mind in 1978 or did "all the rest of the children" receive their priesthood by then? Brigham Young also taught, by revelation from God, that if a white person had sexual relations with a black person, "the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."

So I have to ask, why would any black person want to be part of this false religious system?

Me, I'm opposed
I very succinctly say, "but he is not a Christian".

Not only that
but Joseph Smith commented that if the Black people live righteous lives they may in fact become White after they die.

Personally I find that rather insulting. And I am not even Black.

People who continually claim that it is possible to separate 100% ones core beliefs from ones behaviour should ask Bill Clinton and his wife if they are capable of separating, for example, their expressed loathing for the militurry from their policy on waging war; or ask Rudy if he truly believes he is still a bedrock Catholic when he has decided to flout virtually every bedrock belief of the Catholic church.

A man who believes what the LDS church believes and who states that he lives his life wholly in tune with that belief is not going to be able to stick his belief in a box and sit on the lid while he governs. You cannot serve both God and Mammon -- and its Mammon who gets you re-elected.

Mr. Romney is lacking.
I watched Mr. Romney in the debates last week and felt like I was watching "Ken of the Barbie Doll Fame" there seemed to be something just not real. There was a lack of genuine intent. He looked more the actor then Fred Thomson. I'm now leaning towards Mike Huckaby because of his stance on The Fare Tax. If Mr. Romney would add this to his platform I would also consider him.

TH Bigotry
The anti-Mormon bigotry on this site is unrelenting, untrue and unAmerican. talent scout, cornpone, AudiR10, etc, etc, go back to Sunday School with all of your anti-Mormon propaganda. It does not belong here.

If the Mormon religion is so dangerous and powerful, then why didn't Mitt convert half of Massachusetts during his term as governor? Good grief people, you sound like a broken, scratchy, screeching Milli Vanilli record.

Pro Traditional Marriage. Pro Life. Pro limited government. Anti radical Islam. He can beat Hillary with one hand tied behind his back. Go Mitt!

Great Write-up Charles...
Very accurate analysis
Very factual


Romney is by far the best man for the job...it isn't even close.

THRadio
When you post under a heading "TH Bigotry" you are implying that TH - as a WHOLE shares this "bigotry."

That would include yourSELF, as you are ALSO part of TH by virtue of your posting here.

It's not about religion, fiscal ........
responsibilty, or national security. It's the court, the federal appellate and SCOTUS. Any social conservative that has followed the trail of the four social liberals foisted upon the base of the Republican party by the LBGT line and staff of the RNC and RSCC knows that none of these men will select strict constructionists to the court. Why waste your time and effort attempting to convince the secular and religious social conservative base of the Republican party? Align yourselves with the Democrats and we'll take all the social consevatives from the Democrat party.

Romney will Win
One of the things Governor Romney has going for him is that he is used to facing silly challenges from both Massachusetts liberals and from anti-Mormons. Despite all the foolishness around him, he has consistently risen to the top. He is a leader and a winner. His governing principles match those of most thoughtful Republicans. Despite the flak, his support continues to grow as more and more Americans get to know him. He'll be a great president.

Charles Mittchell has nailed it!
Mr. Mitchell as succinctly established with sound reasoning why Mitt Romney should be our next president. Everything Mitt Romney has touched as turned to gold. He himself is like gold tried in the fires of Massachuetts leftist leaning government. He has been refined in the furnice of affliction, concerning his religion, etc. and not come out wanting. His Meet The Press performance against Tim Russert was simply outstanding. Who would even want to run for President with all that is thrown at them by the opposition? We are just blessed to have such a choice in Mitt Romney. Go Mitt!

I can't believe that
I might be agreeing even if it means putting up with the gloat of Mormons' and the 'seeming' justifying of their Un-Biblical Faith. And it is Un-Biblical as much slinging of the word Bigotry around doesn't make it otherwise.

As a Biblical Christian my faith will have to be tried to accept the Word's injunction that 'you are in the world but not of the world.' As a Dispensationalist, Christians are not promised or predicted to be the winners of this world and to believe otherwise doesn't seem to be in the stars and surely not in the Bible. A point I beleive many evangelicals are either ignorant of or conveniently overlook in their zeal.

A Mormon President might raise opportunities for the Bible's Gospel. Opportunities arise from all kind of sources like the persecution in the first century was an opportunity for the spread of that Gospel an opportunity not welcomed then. Biblical Christians will be challenged to know what they believe in ways they have not been challenged in different centuries.

The wheel seems to be turning and the world seems to be entering a pre-Constantine like era when Biblical Christianity was on the margins of society and not the dominant culture. Whether it ever was dominant is another debate but 'Even so, come Lord Jesus.'

Kool Aid Chugging Romniac
Ah, very unbiased. Another Romney shill conveniently ignoring Romney's liberal record of illegally imposing gay marriage and including abortion in his govt mandated healthcare plan. What a joke these shills are. Here is the truth about Romney's "pro-life conversion" (link below) The truth always comes out. Shame on the Romney shills for ignoring his record and trying to pass Mitt off as a conservative. His 15 minutes are almost up thankfully.

http://www.fred08.com/NewsRoom/PressRelease.aspx?ID=6edbafe f-d7ce-4bec-8646-6777827a57bb

Half-truths and downright lies.
There is a lot of Anti-Mormon rhetoric here today. To those who are seeking truth with an open mind about LDS doctrine, please realize that these viewpoints are made of half-truths and downright lies. Remember one thing, who is the Father of all lies? If you have honest questions go to the source on what the LDS doctrine is. This can only be found at LDS.org a very well designed site with good searching capabilities.

Romney is awful
I don't know what interview you were watching yesterday, but Russert called out Romney as "gimmick" on all his flip-flops and fees-vs-taxes.

Romney's record as governor was so horrible, he had a 57% disapproval rating when he left office (which Democrats won back).

Most evangelical voters don't care that Romney is Mormon, but they're not stupid enough to fall for his sudden lurches to the right on abortion, same-sex marriage, the right to bear arms. The only solid thing about Romney's record is his willingness to say anything to get elected and to point blame at anybody else for mistakes.

Vote Huckabee, vote McCain, vote Hunter -- but DO NOT vote for this charlatan, Romney.

More at http://rightsmart.blogspot.com

We don't get the perfect candidate
I do believe a president should uphold God's laws as they are the highest priority and no one escapes the judgment. However, there isn't going to be the perfect candidate.

Most everyone I can admire wouldn't ever want to pollute their lives with presidential politics. Besides that, If I vote for Guilliani - am I endorsing Hollywood's term limits on years of marriage to one person? If I vote for McCain - am I endorsing liberalism? If I vote for Huckaby am I saying its ok for a pastor to leave his mission of saving souls in order to be a politician?

No. I'm only saying it was either him or a democrat.

Sad? Yes.

Reality? Yes.

New Mitt, Meet Old Mitt
Another great article about Mitt's flip-flops...

http://www.observer.com/2007/new-mitt-meet-old-mitt

Romney is a Republican John Kerry when it comes to his record and rhetoric, and he will be roasted by Democrats if he becomes the nominee.

This is still primary season -- there is time to support true social conservatives who were SoCons when SoCons weren't so cool.

Spiceman
Thanks for that website. Very interesting. As usual, there will be some (and have already been some on this thread) who continue to assert that Mormon doctrine and history are inherently racist, without even acknowledging the points that site brings up.

Again, thanks. I've been looking for a good source like that.

RIGHT ON CHARLES!
" Above all else, the president has to lead — he has to be a good executive."

About 90% of the anti Romney posts on this thread are not anti-Romney at all, just anti Mormon. Furthermore, those that are anti Romney are badly mis-informed; just the same old, same old. The vitriol never ends.

Romney DID use his veto pen in MA and he DOES have the support of the right to life people there for a reason. He DID try to stop same-sex marriage but the extreme liberals in the legislature sabbotaged that effort, not Romney.

BTW Sarah, I DO belong to the NRA.

ITS STILL THE ECONOMY STUPID!


zzzzzzzzzzzzz
to all the same ol balogna against romney!
then enjoy hillary/obama.....!
elvis

Spiceman
I just checked out http://www.blacklds.org

VERY INTERESTING!

THANKS!

Mitt
I do not care about Romneys Mormonism. I'm not for it. I'm not against it. All I need to know is in his past record, and that record shows him to be a RINO!

I no longer vote for RINO's!

Just a Word to the Bigots...
THANKS!

The more you rant, the more curiosity you arouse. Eventually, people see through the lies and half-truths. With regard to those you do deceive, someday you will have to answer to God for that.

I also went to http://www.blacklds.org

There are some powerful messages there. I was especially interested in the former Baptist preacher, Wain Myers. All I can say is WOW!

Oh yes, I am for Mitt Romney and against Harry Reid (both Mormons). But if Mike Huckabee gets the nomination, I will vote for him even if I do think that he is a bigoted Baptist(due to his bigoted keynote speech at the Baptist convention in Salt Lake City).

just sign me: A proud evangelical LDS Christian.


it is very sad!
It is sad to me that there are so many people out there who call themselves values conservatives, but then exhibit such extreme religious biggotry. They pretend to be Christian but forget the guiding principle of Christ's ministry to "love one another as I have loved you."

One could root around in the past of any religion be it Christian or non-Christian, and find skeletons in the closet. I, as a member of the LDS Church, embrace all who share the same values that I do, regardless of their religous affiliation. I may not agree with that person's personal beliefs, but will join hands with them to fight for the values that I share with them.

Remember what this article was about. It was evangelicals, who while differing on religious beliefs, see the man who has the credentials to beat a liberal in the upcomming election. Heck Mit won the governorship in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. If that is not a sign that he can beat Hillary in 08, nothing is.

it is very sad
It is sad to me that there are so many people out there who call themselves values conservatives, but then exhibit such extreme religious biggotry. They pretend to be Christian but forget the guiding principle of Christ's ministry to "love one another as I have loved you."

One could root around in the past of any religion be it Christian or non-Christian, and find skeletons in the closet. I, as a member of the LDS Church, embrace all who share the same values that I do, regardless of their religous affiliation. I may not agree with that person's personal beliefs, but will join hands with them to fight for the values that I share with them.

Remember what this article was about. It was evangelicals, who while differing on religious beliefs, see the man who has the credentials to beat a liberal in the upcomming election. Heck Mit won the governorship in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. If that is not a sign that he can beat Hillary in 08, nothing is.

More Barbra Striesand from PT 1
The same cast of LDS haters (Sarah, videoranger,MoniQue, AudR10 etc...), same out of context drivel.

Read your bibles and see where virtually all the things you hate about LDS is mentioned...third heaven in 2 Corinthians, Satan the Devil and Dragon cast out of heaven with a third of the stars of heaven and his angels Revelation Chapter 12, saved by grace and works, otherwise why would ther be a judegement? Revelation Chapter 20.

Polygamy? In the bible and practiced by prophets

No gold plates? Where are the originals of the 10 commandments and the bible manuscripts?

No modern revelation. How did you decide that? Do you believe God can not? Does he not love us as much as our forefathers? Do we not need him now that we can worship your founders (Martin Lurther, Calvin, Wesley, Constantine, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, etc) or because you have surpassed him?

Godmakers huh? Doesn't Matthew 25:34 talk about inheriting a kingdom? Don't kings inherit KINGdoms? Also Romans 8:16-17 speaks to our being joint heirs. HEIRS, not replacement gods in your little misinterpretation fantasy world.


Same BS cast of characters PT 2
The Trinity? You have absolutely no ground here nor will you ever address the issue of how you can believe a creed of men who designated the trinity to be a glob (Nicea 400AD by politicians, pagans and some very hesitant Christians) and not God the father with a "right hand", and Christ the saviour and His son who sat on that right side and whom prayed to His father (not to himself) nor a glob, and the Holy Spirit which descended like a dove onto Christ who was separate, left as a witness Hebrews 2:4.

"Weird" stories a plenty no matter which book you read or malign. Why are you so afraid of a 14-year-old boy and what he said? Guilty conscience? Paid ministers bound to lose their income (oh and which the bible prohibits), don't want to accept the biblically prophesied apostasy? Fine. Have your segregated churches, believe you can be saved today and murder tomorrow and still be saved, cherry pick scriptures that fit your "mind"set and be hateful to others that you really don't care to even attempt to understand. Hate, disparage, distract, deceive, and discourage all you want. Satan enjoys your use of his tools ala Michael Moore.

But for once and for all, be for Huck because of what he is or can do and debate the and against Mitt for the same reasons.

And forget the he will be a Mormon first and call Salt Lake, show me evidence of that while he was governor. Unless you are projecting of course, what you hope Huck will do????? Liberals always accuse the right of code speech when they are the ones doing it...Is Huck like that?


ROMNEY NOT FIRST CHOICE

.....If Romney is the Republican nominee he will get my vote but he would not be my first choice ...

....My first choice would be Fred Thompson who is a true Conservative who has never wavered ...never flipped/flopped and has both Domestic and International experience ...

.....In your article you gave an example of an ex-actor who rarely went to church (Reagan) running against a never divorced Baptist (Carter) and asked who would you vote for? ...

.....If you substituted Thompson for Reagan and Huckabee for Carter you would have the same situation today ...

.....I think Romney would be a much better choice than Huckabee but not so very long ago Mitt was OK with gay marriage and abortion ...he has since change his positions but he is on tape advocating his former positions ...and the Democrats will use this plus all the peculiar aspects of the Mormon Chuch against him in a National election ....

.....The Democrats would not have such ammo to use against Thompson .....COLOSSUS

talent scout
Just to be clear

Branch Davidians, Heavens Gate and Jim Jones all came from "Orthodox" christain fundamentalist backgrounds as do the skinheads.

That said they still have a right to preachj their version of things. I don't believe in the suicide thing, but certainly Reno and the Clintons had no right or motive to murder the BR Davs

Romney is playing the bigot card
What a joke Townhall.com has become. They're contributors are all a bunch of shills for Romney. Romney's floundering has nothing to do with religious bigotry. If anything the Mormon's should kick him out for not supporting their social values which they share with Evangelicals. The truth is Romney is a died-in-the-wool liberal on both social and economic issues.

The truth on Romney is well dcoumented by Massachusetts conservatives:
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/



How do you know?
Mitt Romney is the candidate looking for a niche. He changes his stand on issues like changing clothes for a different event. Want to be Governor of Mass., then take a stand on..(fill in the blank). Want to be President, then I was wrong and now I am ...(fill in the blank).

I want a candidate who actually thought this through before he was almost 60 years old and knew who he was and what was important in life.

That's why I like Mike Huckabee.

VIDEORANGER PROVES MY POINT 12:18 AM

.....These are the kinds of attacks that Romney would face in a National Election ...

.....Besides Romney is a converted RINO ...

.....If Conservatives put another RINO in the Whitehouse then the Republican Party will morph into Democrat Lite

.....There hasn't been a true Conservative in the White House since Reagan left office ...Thompson comes the closest to the Reagan ideal ...If Conservatives want a Conservative in the White House then Thompson should be your man .....COLOSSUS

Faith and the Whitehouse
I'm not a Morman... In fact I'm not a very good Methodist!!

However, a politician's principles upon which all decisions are made are either derived from their core values rooted in their faith or from the latest poll.

Accordingly, while the Republicans are beating each other up over the nuances of whether Jesus had a bad Brother, the democrats escape such scrutiny because everyone knows their only question of faith is between Zogby and NYT data from the last 7 days.

For this reason, I can not support Billary, Obama, Huckaby or any other candidate whose change of position is of convenience rather than concience.

Romney's explanation of his change in position on abortion earns my respect rather than my disdain as it was derived from an in depth study of the issue and sided against strong opposition instead of bowing to opportunistic pressure.

This change was far from a flip flop but rather told me much about the Man and the way he would make decisions of state.

Dr. Ron Paul is the only Hope!
If you wnat someone who has real, original Republican ideals, check out Ron Paul. Please, I beg you not to prejudge him based on what the media and article writing pundits say about him. Anyone who is able to raise $6M in one day has to be striking a chord with the general public, and this is despite the negative publicity the man gets time and time again. If you check him out and see for yourself what he stands for, you will join the Dr. Ron Paul revolution...he cured me of my apathy for politics of the main stream establishment. God Bless America and Dr. Ron Paul!! He will cure you of your political ailments also!!

Will the real Mitt please stand up
What Mitt really meant to say was; Yes, I am glad not to be cursed with black skin and the church is right about that policy. However, our tax-exempt status was going to be taken away so we decided to make them members of our pure institution. I cried! Yes. I want fiscal conservatives to vote for me but they should realize the difference between fees and taxes. The fees will be used for welfare programs. My church says everyone needs to give some money for the good of everyone. I will not raise taxes though. Yes. I want social conservatives to vote for me. If my relative had chosen a "safe and legal" procedure she would not have died and I would still be pro-choice. But now I need social conservative votes to make me president - get over it! Yes. I want to kill embroys but it is easier to do so with private funding than with government funding since adding fees for embroy killings may be misunderstood to be raising taxes. Yes, I want to keep all the illegal aliens here without the opportunity for citizenship because I can get cheap labor and help the poor people to earn a living instead of being on welfare making it difficult to not raise taxes - and ofcourse I cannot add fees for illegal alien services, it would make me look like Huckabee giving them tuition so I will employ them instead. No, I am not a hunter and prefer for people not to own guns, but I need the NRA vote without alienating the animal rights voters so I will say I am a small animal hunter. MITT FOR PRESIDENT, ALL AMERICANS WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT AND JOE SMITH WILL BE PROUD THAT WE ARE TAKING THE NATION AND LEADING THE EARTH INTO SAINTHOOD!

Here's mud in your eye
Savage Alum writes: 11:53 AM
talent scout
Just to be clear
------
ts:
Last thing you Romney worshipers want is clarity.
Policy is what matters, no matter what this man believes in personally.

--------
Savage Alum writes:
Branch Davidians, Heavens Gate and Jim Jones all came from "Orthodox" christain fundamentalist backgrounds as do the skinheads.
------
ts:
Don't be a bigot now.
Don't bring up what anyone believes in, lets take you Romney worshipers line of thinking and just look at the commonality among us all.
Mormons after all have lots in common with skinheads in their past racist views of black folks.
But lets not lower ourselves to point out simularities with Joe Smith/Brigham Young and the skinheads.
-----
Savage Alum writes:
That said they still have a right to preachj their version of things. I don't believe in the suicide thing, but certainly Reno and the Clintons had no right or motive to murder the BR Davs
----
ts
See
We do have things we can agree on
All things being common to all men, like choosing sides and forgiving one man while condemning another for the same thing.
Romney is a flipping flopper and left the State of Massachusetts in confusion.
He is a very confused man with one goal, salesmanship of his own egotistical love for power.


Wally, did the NRA endorse Romney?
Liar, liar, liar pants on fire. Is that simple enough for you to follow? Its the lying smart one!

Drex, NRA endorsement?
still waiting to hear why Romney made that up. Who made him do it this time?

baseballdoc, I enjoy your posts
And I largely agree with you regarding the attacks on Romney although Romney is still my first choice. I also think Hunter is great and I used to like Huckabee also but I am getting over that.

The hate posters here are the same old familiar names and they, and people like them, will no doubt spread their cheer all the way up to the general election. They did when Romney ran for senate (including Teddy K.) and when he ran for governor but they turn people off and in the end, I think that they are counter-productive. They may even help Romney.

You say Romney is a "converted RINO". Maybe so, but if so, the key word is CONVERTED. I think that the man is absolutely sincere. His history at Bain and Co and as gov. show him to be a man of high principle as does his personal life.

MLP
ouch!

Good Rant!

Sarah
If Romney gets the nomination and he is running against a gun control nut like Obama or Hillary...

Who do YOU think the NRA will endorse?

Hi my name is Sarah (or insert favorite
anti-LDS blogger here)

I am a pseudo campaign manager for Huckabee. I can’t really think of anything that would help you want to vote for him, since his record is at least as bad (actually worse) on both social and financial conservative issues as the guy who was leading. But since I can make hay of his religion and make up stories or push hearsay so I can be like the crab in the bushel that always pulls others back into it instead of letting them free (by the way I hated that Jonathan Livingston Seagull twirp), I will use the power of the internet to spew my hate and vitriol. You see, it was affective to say all those things about mormons to a bunch of ignorant Iowans since Rudy decided to sit out Iowa. I can ignore the issues and talk about mormons all day long because there are so many good fantasy stories over the years to pick from. I will refrain from the mormons have horns and how they were responsible for the inquisitions because they are obviously false, but my “orthodox” minister friends used it (the horns) successfully for years, so I came up with a whole new script with the help of ministers dedicated to tearing dowm the LDS. As far aa Huckabee for president, I got nothing!!!…But if I can sling enough mud on Mitt and the rest of the nation rejects the huckster, I can sure get Rudy or Hillary elected, because afterall, don’t we all just secretly hate mormons and anyone who can’t heal a cripple in a revival tent like my pappy!

Wally, did the NRA endorse Romney?
Romney lied on MTP - focus please! and this is when he was trying to say he has changed and he is no longer a liar.....oooooohhhhhh - NRA endorses a racist, lying republican -that is a good headline!

You'd think
From reading these posts, you'd think that no one in here has ever changed their mind on an important and weighty topic.

For anyone who would like some clarification, please watch Romney on MTP. He clearly takes responsibility for changing his mind and explains why. He also says that if you want a president who's never going to reassess the situation and correct his stance when he realizes that he's been wrong, then he's not your guy.

The fact is, Mitt's record of GOVERNMENT shows that as a governing official, he has consistently been PRO-LIFE and PRO-FAMILY. As a president, he will be PRO-LIFE and PRO-FAMILY. Do you really think that he's going to become a raging liberal as soon as he's sworn in?

Savage Alum - did Joe Smith
give you this rant? Where is the NRA endorsement, can Joe Smith give us a revelation please. ANYBODY BUT ROMNEY is my agenda is you need to know, I am still undecided but Racist, Romniac will divide america along religious, race and social issues - can Joe Smith save us from a Romney nomination? What is Joe Smith's number, I want to pay the guy for a new revelation.

Faith is personal
As a Christian, a Southern Baptist, I am amused at the posts that seem to think Christians walk lock step with whatever denomanation or (religion) they belong to. I am a Christian, follower of Christ, beliver in the Holy bible as the true word of God. Baptist dont think for me, nor do I agree with everthing they say. Huckabee explained it very well in the Republican debate when he gave his stand on what he believed about the bible. If Romney is the Republican choice I will vote for him, if its Huckabee, or Thompson I will support them. In spite of what the media reports, and what 2% of our population (non-belivers) say, the vast majority of the citizens of this country still respect the word of God and want a solid moral God fearing person in leadership. The democrats just dont measure up, when it comes to the likes of Clinton, Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Boxer, and all the other San Francisco value liberals. We are sick and tired of the moral decay, higher taxes, attack on the family,and un-american activity period. I have no problem at all voting for a Mormon, Catholic, or a Jew, black or white, or anyone else so long as they understand that abortion is murder, and the constitution was drawn up by men of faith and moral fiber.

Let's be clear...
Romney was an advocate for gay rights but never for gay marriage. He battled Massachusetts activist judges over gay marriage and enforced a little-known 1913 law to prevent Massachusetts from becoming the Gay "Las Vagas" of marriage during the gay marriage crisis imposed upon the state by activist judges.

(See here: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june04/gaymarriage_ 5-17.html



Romney made campaign promises to protect the rights of gays (and he kept those promises without ever compromising his long-standing opposition to gay marriage.)

Romney critics are all over the map on issues, but they hardly ever have their facts straight.

Hi my name is (insert favorite anti-LDS
blogger here)


I am a pseudo campaign manager for Huckabee. I can’t really think of anything that would help you want to vote for him, since his record is at least as bad (really worse, but shhhhh) on both social and financial conservative issues as the guy who was leading. But since I can make hay of his religion and make up stories or push hearsay so I can be considered an authority without ever having gone to their church or read their literature in context, I will use the power of the internet to spew my hate and vitriol. You see, it was effective to say all those things about mormons to a bunch of ignorant Iowan "orthodox" christians since Rudy decided to sit out Iowa. I can ignore the issues and talk about mormons all day long because there are so many good fantasy stories over the years to pick from. Most of which were penned in an orthodox church with enough to truth to make it a plausible lie. I will refrain from the mormons have horns and how they were responsible for the inquisitions because they are obviously false, but my “orthodox” minister friends used it (the horns thing) successfully for years, so I came up with a whole new script. As far a Huckabee for president, I got nothing!!!…But if I can sling enough mud on Mitt and the rest of the nation rejects the huckster, I can sure get Rudy or Hillary elected, because afterall, don’t we all just secretly hate mormons and anyone who can’t heal a cripple in a revival tent like my pappy! He was real talent scout.

Romney shares MY Christian values!
After watching the way Mitt Romney handled himself with Russert yesterday, it just confirms again my (and even my husband's decision now!) decision to vote for him. His answers are insightful, astute, and just plain make sense. It is obvious that Romney has the poise, intelligence and problem solving skills to take the Republican Party (and my conservative values) all the way to the White House. No other candidate has that total package. I can see why so many high-profile, intelligent, conservative, talk-show hosts, Evangelical ministers, magazines and political columnists support Mitt Romney. They see the same thing I have come to see myself---Mitt Romney = competence, intelligence, common sense, experience, class, morals, problem solver, communicator, unifier, and lastly... a great father and husband. That's exactly the kind of President my family is looking for to lead our nation in such perilous times. Took me some time to get there, but better late than never! :-)

The Lamb of God
[12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
____

Jesus alone sits at the right hand of the Father as his only begotten son. No other gods. No other kingdoms. All in Heaven and Earth praise the Lamb of God.

The following may answer some biblical questions:

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I take note that Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God the Father are separate entities but are also separate from all other beings. Perhaps like a husband and wife become one in Christ, The family of God is one as well. I don't claim to fully understand but it is clear to me that Jesus was with God "in the beginning" and is above all people in Heaven and Earth.

No one in Heaven will ever bend the knee to another.
Merry Christmas

Liberal...
Governor of Massachusetts = Liberal...Period!

Not for me and not for the U.S.!

Romney is no Conservative...
Governor of Massachusetts = Liberal...Period!

Not for me and not for the America!

Fuzzy
Merry Christmas to you too

Very well stated and believe it all. You better be careful not to let some of the so called Christians blogging here hear that you belive like you do. They'll call you a cultist and want to tar and feather you.

Sarah, you are so dim? Can't think of a nicer way to put it. You can write a parady yet can't see it reflected back at you and have to call it a rant or a revelation? Such is how you are exposed for your shallowness, similarly talent scout brought up the various cult groups and couldn't get how he set himself as being out of context, then had to try to tie it back to me.

We will never hear them defend the NIcean Creed, they'll either ignore it or skulk away to the next blog

This isn't bad for learning about mormons and anti-mormons

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/contents.htm


Think about it!
If Romney loses, he goes on with his head up high, still have millions of money and live a happy life. What about us, our economy, that is about to go down some more. Can we take it? Maybe you can but the middle income and the poor will certainly be hopeless. America is in ruin. Thanks to Anti Romney!

Just reading more of the bogus
detail from the massresistance.org robots.

What a crock of @#$@!.

This confirms my earlier posts that these Romney critics never have their facts straight.

These guys throw all the blame on the current gay marriage mess in Massachusetts at Romney's feet. Reading through their timeline (See here: http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/timeline.ht ml

I have actually gained even more respect for Romney. He truly understands how to defeat activist judges at their own game. He doesn't follow activist tactics of throwing it in your face, creating chaos, and mass disobendience...(which is apparently what massresistance thought Romney should have done to fight back at the time) Romney seeks legal solutions, the legislative process, and constitutional amendments...which takes more time but ultimately wins the war...not just the battle.

MassResistance's own timeline proves that Romney is focused on winning the war over gay marriage (not the battle.) They seek to label Romney's lack of engagement in "activist warfare" as a silent endorsement of the gay marriage activist judges. (Nothing could be further from the truth.)

It is sad to see how misdirected the efforts of massresistance really are. In attacking Romney, they are blowing up their own cause.

Liberal North Easterners=Not Good
wwerth writes:
Governor of Massachusetts = Liberal...Period!
Not for me and not for the America!


I know. The nerve of all these unamerican places in the N.E. like Massachusetts, Philadelphia etc. Where do these places in the liberal north east get off thinking they had something to do with America? Our founding? Our initial history? Huh! Where do they get off? The ideas of places like these have NOTHING to do with America or our history! What does Massachusetts know about America? What do they know about the founding of this nation?

Everybody knows this country was founded by "REAL" Americans in "REAL" parts of America, like Mississippi, Alabama, etc. You know. Conservative places!... What in the Hell is the Liberty Bell doing up there? It needs to be moved where the "REAL" Americans are, like Alabama darnit!

After all...they held the Constitutional Convention where? Kentucky was it? North Dakota? I can't remember now. I'm certain it was somewhere that "REAL" Americans live! There's no way it took place anywhere up there in that liberal North East!

Talent Scout History Lesson
1841: Baptists Argue that Slavery is Biblical
Southern delegates to the Triennial Convention of the American Baptist Foreign Mission Board "protested the abolitionist agitation and argued that, while slavery was a calamity and a great evil, it was not a sin according to the Bible." [J.G. Melton, The Encyclopedia of American Religions, Volume I, Triumph Books, (1991), Volume II, Page 5.]

1815: A.M.E. Church Founded
The African Methodist Episcopal Church (A.M.E.) is organized in Philadelphia with Richard Allen as the founding bishop. It is formed because blacks who were praying in the Methodist Episcopal church were pulled up off their knees. (Source: Official AME Church history)

Guess you can find erroneous actions throughout history. This doen't affect me as things have changed, but you still seem to have your panties in a bunch over missteps of or outright lies about the mormons respectively.

Again, tell me what is so great about Huckabee that he earns my vote


Romney
Best candidate for the job, PERIOD.

It doesn't matter that he is LDS.
It doesn't matter that he is from the NE.
It doesn't matter that he admits his past mistakes.


His record is a solid as it gets...people try to attack him, but the attacks are shallow and without substance...Romney is simply one of the best presidential candidates in history.

Liberals with an agenda are fighting furiously to keep him from being elected.

The Hatred Continues
There is nothing funnier than Southern Baptists lecturing Mormons about race relations.

Seems like we fought a major war over this issue. What side were Southern Baptists on?

The KKK was a forminable organization responsible for killing and intimidating Black Americans. Was that a Mormon front group? A quick search on Google will show that Southern Baptists were largely involved in the organization.

Segregation was the law just 40 years in the Christian South. It is still the unofficial law in many parts of the South.

Look - the reality is that few groups have a pretty record when it comes to race relations. I certainly don't believe that all Southern Baptists are racist because of their past. How about we focus on the here and now. We aren't electing a president for 1960. We have real issues today that need to be tackled. Vote for the candidate that can solve today's problems.

Love to Sarah, the bigots are

Attacking her for her beliefs, which they condemn as bigotry if applied to Romney.

Isn't it sad how warped politics is?
Anyone who has pointed out their own problems with Romney are called bigots by the "saints" and the Romney worshipers.
And Sarah and others get called bigots for what we believe.
Hypocrites are not believable, ok.
You inspire unbelief, not faith with your hypocrisy over honest disagreements.

-----

Savage Alum writes: 1:20 PM



Sarah,.... Such is how you are exposed for your shallowness, similarly talent scout brought up the various cult groups and couldn't get how he set himself as being out of context, then had to try to tie it back to me.
-----
ts:
You do not what you accuse.
You responded to the various cults and not the point of what I said.
You are the one who wants to talk about the cults, and are abusing context to miss the point.

I said I do not care if Romeny belongs to any cult, I said the issue is his flipping flopping lying, snake filled speeches.

He has left Mass. in a State of Confusion.
This is my point
Yours is to talk about the cults

budbud
It is a fact that the north east is mostly liberal or democrat if you like that term better. Nobody is saying that the foundations of our great nation are partially born out of this area of the country. But to say that there is a vast majority of conservatism is just a falsity. Can you say Kennedy?

Any person who is elected there in this day and time especially at the Governorship level is most assuredly a liberal which is not what we need for the office of the POTUS.

See how
Everytime the mention of the Nicean Creed is brought up the people or groupies (Sarah, Audi, Talent Scout, etc. ad naseum)who defend the "orthodox version" of the bible or christianity (AKA hate the mormons crowd, hence Mitt) they head for the hills. They tell anyone and everyone else about the disasters and plagues to befall those who add to or take from the bible then go running.

Like roaches to Raid. They don't want to address how they have done exactly what they evangelize against. Too funny.

Savage Alum
I believe in the Godhead and the Trinity. I don't have a problem with others speaking out for their take on the Bible. Nor do I take offense when it doesn't agree with mine.

To believe as Mormons do, is contradictory in important was to my understanding of Christ. While we butt heads on this, we will be on the same side on so many more things. Everyone parts paths at some point, over some belief.

For one, I could vote for Mitt just as easily as Rudy or John. Their lives & actions betray who they are. Mike? Not sure about him either. Even if he is closer religiously to me.

So, Romney in the spotlight is our chance to butt heads. Lets learn from it & know we come away as family.

Not a Huck fan at all
Savage Alum writes: Monday, December, 17, 2007 1:38 PM
Talent Scout History Lesson
(Source: Official AME Church history)
------
ts:
Wrong subject
This is about Romney's flipping flopping ways and his run for President.
I do not want such a hypocrite in office.
You can go read history if you so desire, ok?
------
Savage Alum writes:
Guess you can find erroneous actions throughout history. This doen't affect me as things have changed, but you still seem to have your panties in a bunch over missteps of or outright lies about the mormons respectively.
-----
ts:
PANTIES? SMILE NOW.
I guess this is meant to convince me you wear them and assume all men do.
Of course you would never be a bigot or offensive, so I have to assume because you wear panties you believe all men do.
Ok, even if you like wearing them, it does nto mean all men do.
Here is what I know about Mormons, no lie among them, all lies from non-Mormons.
Thats how to be a "saint".
No such thing as a lying Mormon is your world, just us "gentiles".
smile

-------
Savage Alum writes:
Again, tell me what is so great about Huckabee that he earns my vote
------
ts:
I will NOT vote from Huck either, he is a Rino too
Not the Subject for me, just the ones who will not look at Romney being a liberal acting like Hilliary in pants.
The man is someone I would never vote for as he is a professional politician who loves his own glory more than America or God in my opinion.



Fuzzy
In the end, no matter how much I may have to hold my nose if (when) we get a candidate that is most assuredly below the mark Reagan set, that person will be leaps and bounds above anyone on the other side of the aisle.

Family first

So Talent Scout
Let's hear your plug for your choice. Not just the anti stuff

PS from your blog

ts:

"Mormons after all have lots in common with skinheads in their past racist views of black folks.
But lets not lower ourselves to point out simularities with Joe Smith/Brigham Young and the skinheads."

I think it was you who tried to spin the race card into this deck...By the way, how pre tell are they similar????

MItt says he is for illegals staying
Mitt on MTP yesterday said he would NOT require the 12 million illegal invaders to leave the US.
He would allow them to stay legally (and therefore he is willing to REWARD their lawbreaking by allowing them to stay).

Both Fred and Huckabee have said they will require ALL illegal invaders to leave the US and get in line at the end of the line outside the US. Rich elite Mitt wants to keep the poor people so they will work for cheap on his mansion.

Slavery needs context too
This has been done over and over again on TH but it seems not everyone saw it.

Orthodox Christianity recognizes slavery but doesn't put limitations on it to any skin color or nationality or culture.

Slavery used to be a system that allowed people with no means of income or no home or no hope - to live with and perform chores for a "master". So, in effect, a man could take in a perfect stranger to his home. Providing shelter and food in exchange for work. Slaves were not "less than people". They were indentured as servants until the next day of Jubilee.

This is very different from a person being nothing more than property.

This is not the Kunta Kinte type of slavery we think of in today's terms. Nor does it have any bearance on whether or not LDS doctrine is (was) discriminatory. Orthodox Christianity, in no way, has ever endorsed slavery as known today and directly states that all men are created in God's image and have access to salvation through Christ.

For doing what he comes to do
This Mormon shows how deeply hypocritical they are.
--------

Savage Alum writes: 1:55 PM
See how
Everytime the mention of the Nicean Creed is brought up the people or groupies (Sarah, Audi, Talent Scout, etc. ad naseum)who defend the "orthodox version" of the bible or christianity (AKA hate the mormons crowd, hence Mitt) they head for the hills. They tell anyone and everyone else about the disasters and plagues to befall those who add to or take from the bible then go running.
----
ts:
See how this Mormon will not talk about the issues but attack people?
This is what Mormons do best and is why we do not need one in the Oval Office.
How many wants to hear this sort of whining for 4 years from a Mormon in office?
Anyone who disagree with him is cause they hate Mormons, and has nothing to do with policy.

Just what the country needs, a whining Mormon in office, we need to make the Office of President as one more victim.
I know these people and this is what they do to any and all who disagree with them, they do see themselves as the The ones appointed if God to rule all us gentiles.
I reject the Nicean Council, just another off topic remark.
------


Savage Alum writes:
Like roaches to Raid. They don't want to address how they have done exactly what they evangelize against. Too funny.
-----
ts:

Read what he calls people who disagree with him, all the while he sees evil if another calls him some name as he does.
I have lived among Mormons, and you have not seen nothing yet from them such as this one here does.
This is their best face.
We need 4 years of this?
Count me out

TS
I am impressed that you hold LDS in such high regard as to assume we are incapable of sin. That too is erroneous as we are in need of the atonement and grateful to the Lord Jesus Christ for the grace of His saving expiation. Nevertheless, we are not flawless although we do try to improve our time and live like He would have us live, but we all fall short daily.

I guess I am just not one of those "let me let you beat me up" type mormons. I have never been adverse to stepping up to a bully for myself, my country or my children. As we said in the military. Duty, Honor, Country. and For God and Country. And I even had to protect people that chose to hate those precepts.

Sorry you never heard of the "panties in a bunch" saying all your life. Its been around awhile. Didn't mean to draw out any insecurities that made you take it so personally...I didn't mean to hit a nerve : )

Savage Alum
Yes, I am preparing to hold my nose on election time. Just like usual. If we defeat the Democrats together, it'll be a joyous day.

Sarah & Talent Scout -
A hardy hello & Merry Christmas to you too.

I forgot Audi10
Merry Christmas to you too.

Off Topic again
Savage Alum writes: 2:12 PM
So Talent Scout
Let's hear your plug for your choice. Not just the anti stuff

PS from your blog

ts:

"Mormons after all have lots in common with skinheads in their past racist views of black folks.
But lets not lower ourselves to point out simularities with Joe Smith/Brigham Young and the skinheads."

I think it was you who tried to spin the race card into this deck...By the way, how pre tell are they similar???
------
ts:
No you are the man who brought up the skinheads to me.

All the while calling me names, and doing what you prefer in wearing panties, thinking all men do that.

You have not yet addressed the issues of Romney the flip flopper.
You keep attacking posters who want to talk about the issues.
And a typical whining cry baby Mormon.
Who needs this crap in the Oval Office for 4 years?
God FORBID

TS
thou protesteth too much from the Bully pulpit

Thanks for making my point

Savage Alum
So looks like you are not going to make it and become a God.

You cannot even turn the other cheek to talent scout. How in the world do you think you can progress to Godhood acting like you do towards God's other children (who do not have the WHOLE truth like you Mormons claim to have)?

If you are an example of a Mormon priesthood holder who is progressing on his way to Godhood, you are a very horrible example of Christ and his loving kindness towards others.

Must ignore their name calling
Savage Alum writes: 2:26 PM
TS
I am impressed that you hold LDS in such high regard as to assume we are incapable of sin.
-----
ts:
And obfuscations like this one from these folks.
Last thing they want is to communicate on real differences.
Mormons are scared of truth that people actually know what they teach and say and hold us "gentiles" in contempt.

Like this one shows clearly, its the only thing Mormons are clear about.

The subject is Romney running for President.

DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN, FORBID IT!

Brett, I have not once called him
Any names, and have tried to get him to focus on Romney.
If that applied, it would be me to "turn the other cheek", not him.
Does not apply anyway to words, but a real slap.

Focus on Romney.
Instead of doing that, which is the topic of this thread, he comes to attack people who post here who have real issues about the flip flopper Romney.
A genuine liberal running as republican.
-------


Brett writes: Monday, December, 17, 2007 2:36 PM
Savage Alum
So looks like you are not going to make it and become a God.

You cannot even turn the other cheek to talent scout.
------
ts:
You have seen nothing yet from such people, this is his best face

Brett
Funny how I never see you chastising your fellow brethren/sisters for their aserbic comments and lies. Maybe its a mote-beam thing. Would you per chance have an agenda? Sounds like you have the God fantasy, because for me Revelation 21:7 and Christ's atonement are working for me and all I need. Sure I am not perfect like I guess ?YOU?, but from your perspective I have it made anyway, because being from another faith first and believing in Jesus Christ I am saved.

Brett how kind of you to point out how I should indeed turn the other cheek and most LDS do just that, while people throwing the slaps like you are always so eager to slap and then scold us for not taking it better.

No priesthood here, still in process, about three more months, but certainly far more willing to look into things than close-minded sorts.

TS and Brett
These blogs are always turning into anti-mormon rants by people like yourselves who go after Mitt (and mormons) on his/their religion, you already know why Mitt is a good choice and I don't need to rehash. See all the pundits, they seem to be doing a good job of stating their cases. Disagree if you want. I just like standing up to bullies like you since most LDS wont...and maybe I am doing it wrong even from the LDS perspective, but I am still a work in progress.

We can disagree on what you believe are his finer or coarser points, but you are still vacant in telling me who you agree with and are choosing to vote for and why.

By the way TS, I am still coherant, sounds like you are the one crying, again an example of projecting.

"God Fantasies"
There is a plethora of god fantasies out there, christianity & Islam being the most common. I find it amusing when christians accuse other religions or denominations as having "god fantasies. They are wise enough to see the other person's religion is a man-made construct, yet not wise enough to see it applies to their VERY OWN divine Jesus or omnipotent Mohammed god constructions.

You guys are like adult kids throwing sand in a sandbox.


Merry Christmas to all Mormons
from Mike Huckabee. Why do I sense these well wishes are loaded with religious undertones? Okay, I may not be a saint but I do know what really matters - not having to watch Romney crash and burn on MTP. Actually, lets get back to merry christmas to Mitt, and all mormons across our multi-racial nation. Jesus would be proud about how well we are getting along. Also, Joe Smith would be proud we all cried when his revelation that black people are not cursed came through.

Savage Alum - how long a member?
How long have you been a member of LDS Church?

l
Here is who I can't vote for:

First - I couldn't bring myself to vote for a Muslim for POTUS. I consider the religion to be incompatible with our constitution.

Second - I couldn't bring myself to vote for an atheist for POTUS. I consider their denial of God as incompatible with our constitution (and rationality).

Third - No Scientologists (or use the term wackos). (Note my hate speach. There is a time to hate.)

Fourth - No Wiccans.

Fifth - No ex-bodybuilders from Hollywood maried to a Kennedy.

These are the lines I draw today. If a third party ever wants to get my vote - it'll happen if any of 1-5 run as republicans.

Savage Alum - Hope I didn't scare you
Hope I didn't scare you away by asking how long you have been a member of the LDS Church?

Well, here is my 1st post
Savage Alum writes: 3:04 PM

By the way TS, I am still coherant, sounds like you are the one crying, again an example of projecting.
--------

talent scout writes: Monday, December, 17, 2007 1:56 AM
Romney, the flipping flopper
I could care less if he belongs to Heavens Gate or Jim Jones Temple,Branch Davidians or the Mormons, the man is nothing today that he will be tomorrow, just as he not today what he was yesterday.

Solid in one area only, flipping and flopping.
Watch this and ask yourself ...The Real Romney, ..is who?
94 Debate with Kennedy
Makes Kennedy look like a Right Winger, and that is worth an Academy Award .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI

-------

Not once have you addressed it
What you have done is name call and whine about your victimhood.

waaaaaa, waaaa
Address the issues, quit whining

Sarah
"Joe Smith would be proud we all cried when his revelation that black people are not cursed came through."

Ha Ha. You know exactly what you are talking about, hats off to you.


will
Christians have never accused other religions of having "god fantasies" and we don't throw sand in your sandbox just because you happen to be one of gods errors.
Yes he made errors--and miracles too. Otherwise, how would we explain our continued presence.

There's always an objection
I enjoyed your article, Charles Mitchell. And I love Heritage Foundation!

Despite Romney's association with the Mormon Church, which is still distrusted by many people, especially, naturally, atheists, agnostics, religious extremists, and separation of church and state extremists, he is a worthy candidate.

As for the danger that Democrats might bring up the issue of "mormon racism," my gosh, you people, what does that matter!? Do you think there is some candidate from either party who is immune to some negative association that his opponents will dig up? It will happen; it doesn't really matter whether it's his religion, an act (or several) of marital infidelity, bugging campaign offices (oh, wait, they all do that), taking campaign contributions from right-wing racists (as Clinton did) or Buddhist monks (as Gore did) or corporations (as Clinton did) or illegal excessive kick-backs from whitewater (as Rodham did).

We're all doomed. The politicians are out to get us. They absolutely refuse to pass a constitutional amendment limiting the amount they can tax us. Therefore, in theory, they can tax us 100% or more of our income. Think about it. It's time for another tea party. Maybe Romney can lead the way.

Savage Alum - run while you still can
Run while you still can.

So what is stopping you from holding the Priesthood? Why can little 18 year old boys hold it and you can't?

Do they have secret knowledge that you don't?

Do you have to prove your a worthy to hold the Priesthood? If so, since you agree you are a sinner, how are you ever going to be worthy?

Fuzzy
Thank you for your list.

You seem to have a great deal of time on your hands to make obvious lists (it's a POV that is as common as dirt around here).

Atheists are not "DENYING" or "AGAINST" the existence of "god". Atheists are simply without god. From the greek: a (without, not "against", not "denying") theist (god).

Got it fuzzy? Please don't fuzz-up the meaning. "Without god". When somebody does not feel the need to believe in god fantasies or Santa fantasies, he is not "AGAINST" nor denying existence of that which is simply not there in the first place.

Fuzzy language, like fuzzy math, is not something to applaud.

Brett
Had to walk the dog and do something productive. Almost a year. Been "investigating" for years as I have not agreed with the whole my god is bigger than your god thing since about middle school. Does that make a difference?

Mitt Making Nice?
Do you think Mitt will pay for an ad. with all his 5 sons, and multiple grandkids, a picture of the troops in the background and ALL newly appointed black mormons who are working on his campaign to say MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM MITT AND PEOPLE WHO MAKE AMERICA GREAT IN WALL STREET AND IRAQ STREETS.

will
Thanks for taking the time to clear up the whole "Santa" issue.

Are you sure you are an atheist because they don't believe in any God? If saying "without God" makes a difference to you, go for it.

Where you been, anyway? Haven't seen you around much for a while.

Wait a minute will
you said you are not "denying" the existence of Santa?

There is still hope he will come everyone!

TS Romney attributes
Electable: Dems are afraid of him more than any other GOP per their own internal polls

Anti-illegals (as well as anyone can be... they didn't all come in a day and aren't all going home in a day

Pro-War on Terror
Anti-Raising taxes
Will seat conservative judges
Has been a successful businessman and governor
Pro business
Pro family
Moral
Stiffness is a problem, but much more articulate that all but Rudy
Standing up to gay marriage was good, being a bit hesitant about abortion a big negative, but he has seen the light
Better than any other candiadte on the ticket, although if Tacredo or Hunter were a little more charismatic and hence, likable on a larger scale, they would be in the running

Satisfied TS or still want to hate me for being LDS?



Savage Alum
When I joined I was promised "further light and knowlege" in the Temple.

However, when I went thru the Temple and passed thru the veil, there was no LDS leader in the Celestial room waiting to answer ANY questions.

There is NOTHING you learn in the Temple that you cannot learn outside the Temple. Period.

Run while you still can. Once you are in, the LDS leaders will keep you forever busy, attending, serving, etc., trying to keep you too busy to ask questions about historical church doctrines and embarassing historical facts about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Don't ever accept less than the truth, no matter how high up the person is in the LDS leadership.

Sarah
You need a break from TownHall. I can feel the anger oozing through the screen. Take a break from the internet, get recharged and come back and play later when you've calmed down.

TS and Brett
Since you want to put yourself above God and Christ as to being judge and jury regarding my or Mormons' salvation (delusions of grandure), although I reject your status, you can be happy that we are back on topic per my last post about why Mitt?. But can you now get past religion to the candidate like you have postured for while really being not so subtle about your true feelings and beliefs.

I have laid out why I like Mitt

ARE YOU EVER GOING TO SAY WHO YOU PICK AND WHY??????????????????????????????????????

Fuzzy
I took a break from Townhall for a few months. I found I was debating the exact same issues over & over & over again to same few dozen people.

As you remember, I am proud gay, liberal, socialist-leaning atheist, so you would assume I'd spend my time posting on Huffington post or the like. But the crazies posting there seem to be without common sense - or intellectual curiosity or rigor. They just want to vent. When one or two posters are certifiably crazy, this can be fun or have an energizing effect....however, when the majority of posters are crazy nutjobs, you feel ashamed to be posting & among their number.


FAKE NEWS COURIERS
"We are free to express our views, but when we learn they are FAKE NEWS, it become slander or if published on a public forum it is liable.”

The following is a list of misguided souls, uniformed posters, false accusers or liars"
-------
Videoranger
Sarah
talent scout
cornpone harry
MoniQue
Bluepiper
AudiR10
Action
jritterbush
AnimalFarm1984
Nancy
wwerth
budbud
Bret
-------
Any time we make a public statement about any one that we cannot prove true, and we have been informed that it is untrue, moreover, we continue to do that it is slander, but if we publish written statements, that you cannot prove true, it is liable

"We are free to express our views, but when we learn they are FAKE NEWS, it become slander or if published on a public forum it is liable.”

But Thanks for your opposition you have done a good job promoting Mitt, as the intelligent voters will always verify with a reliable source, and find you are wrong. Cheers! Merry Christmas to all


The Problem with Mitt
Goes along with Democrats in Mass. Legislature.
Goes along with Democrats in Mass. Supreme Court.

Mitt signs law forcing conservatives in Mass. to subsidize the abortions for liberals in Mass in the new RomneyCare insurance in Mass.

Mitt signs law forcing young healthy single men in Mass. to have to pay for Health Insurance, in order to subsidize old unhealthy people. Sounds like he favors socialism or communism (from each according to their ability to pay, to each according to their need).

It seems that now that Mitt is rich, he favors stealing from person A to give to person B.


Spiceman - the liar
If you want to falsely accuse me of being a liar, you need to show where I have lied; otherwise, you sir are the slanderer and liar.

I await your proof that I have lied.

This will be fun.

Mitt Romney has no chance!
Romney has no chance of winning the general election... none whatsoever. The fact that you Romney shills do not like to admit is that Christians will NOT vote for him because of the simple fact that he is a mormon. Mormonism is a cult..has no affiliation of Christianity and we will not allow a mormon president. Talk about splitting the republican vote..no one will split it more than Romney of the church of mormon.

Spiceman
Misguided? Yes - IN MY OPINION

Twisters of truth? Yes - FACT

Obviously anti LDS! Yes - FACT

Some emotionally disturbed, I think Brett is not and may be trying to be honest and not "F.I.N.E." but yes some are off, like the whole Panties in a bunch comment turned into something bizarre and asking to call Joe Smith for a new revelation after they know he is dead and murdered at the hands of ...???????

But what is Fake News? Does that mean made up just for the sake of making stuff up? You lost me

At teh end of the day, Will is right this is getting too circular and predictable. And yes better than the Huffington shstuff


Welcome back will
I remember my promise to be more respectful of you. I still maintain the right to hurl a few friendly jabs your way, though.


Finally he gets on subject(almost)
Just whines and accuses in his last sentence, he is improving.

------

Savage Alum writes: 4:12 PM
TS Romney attributes
Electable: Dems are afraid of him more than any other GOP per their own internal polls
------
ts:
Hype
------
Savage Alum writes:
Anti-illegals (as well as anyone can be... they didn't all come in a day and aren't all going home in a day
------
ts:
Totally false, inaccurate and dishonest.
--------
Savage Alum writes:

Pro-War on Terror (AGREED)

Anti-Raising taxes (HORSE MANURE)

Will seat conservative judges (EXAMPLE PLEASE?)


Has been a successful businessman and governor
Pro business (MEANINGLESS AS TO POLICY, EMPTY FOR REASONS TO VOTE FOR HIM)

Pro family (AGREED)
Moral (OUTWARDLY, YES, but a genuine blue ribbon hypocrite, in my opinion)

Stiffness is a problem, but much more articulate that all but Rudy
(CANNOT STAND RUDY EITHER)

Standing up to gay marriage was good, being a bit hesitant about abortion a big negative, but he has seen the light.
(WRONG, HE PLAYS BOTH SIDES ON THIS ISSUE)

Better than any other candiadte on the ticket, although if Tacredo or Hunter were a little more charismatic and hence, likable on a larger scale, they would be in the running,

(THEY ARE RUNNING AND ARE REAL PEOPLE, UNLIKE ROMNEY THE ACTOR)


Satisfied TS or still want to hate me for being LDS?
TS:
----
ts:
Now back to regularly scheduled whining and accusations from the Mormon.



Brett
I guess another year plus or minus for the Temple

Hagar, what a loon. You would have throuwn the christians to the lions as long as you could be with the majority. You sound more like a pharisee or saducee than a christian.

Good example of a hypocrite
Savage Alum writes: 4:37 PM
Spiceman
Misguided? Yes - IN MY OPINION

Twisters of truth? Yes - FACT

Obviously anti LDS! Yes - FACT

Some emotionally disturbed, I think Brett is not and may be trying to be honest and not "F.I.N.E." but yes some are off, like the whole Panties in a bunch comment turned into something bizarre and asking to call Joe Smith for a new revelation after they know he is dead and murdered at the hands of ...???????

But what is Fake News? Does that mean made up just for the sake of making stuff up? You lost me
------
Its ok to call others name and use the langauge they cry about if anyone says this about Mormons.

Blue Ribbon Hypocrites.
Spiceman takes the cake with his supreme abilty at this though.

Thanks for the ad Brett
"We are free to express our views, but when we learn they are FAKE NEWS, it become slander or if published on a public forum it is liable.”

But Thanks for your opposition you have done a good job promoting Mitt, as the intelligent voters will always verify with a reliable source, and find you are wrong. Cheers! Merry Christmas to all

http://www.blacklds.org

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/


Savage Alum - can you find out why?
SA,
Can you find out from the LDS leadership why the Mormon God who is just a perfect man cannot visit us here on earth now?

I just don't get why our Father God cannot visit us now. Since we are all just gods trying to become perfect in the next life (according to the lastest revised LDS doctrine), why can't the Mormon God visit us now and help us now.

Can any Mormon please answer my question (without another question)?

Spiceman the liar proves he is a liar
So Spiceman is called on his lying and is given a chance to prove Brett is a liar and what does he do?

Does he prove ANY examples to backup his false accusations and slander?

No. It shows he knows he is lying and now plans on running away.

TS
Still no candidate of your own eh? Typical. Are you saying the illegals all arrived in a day? Being an Executive has no being on being in the Executive office? You are unique I believe.

As for whining, You are Just here to whine about Romney and Mormons. I would say that I would expect nothing less from a panty waste, but you might go off on some bizarre diatribe about panties and men and giraffes and nike tennis shoes and who knows what else and then turn around and acuse me or mormons of whining, then lecture me to turn the other cheek so you can slap again.

Ante up with your candidate or go away

Meanwhile, as beating the air goes on
Here is what the media is NOT reporting.
Our real problems are not even being discussed as we get to fight about meaningless bias.
-------

By Cliff Kincaid

Our national “news” programs have been preoccupied with baseball players on steroids, but they should devote some attention to the Bush Administration’s approval of a plan to put the United Nations on steroids. Apparently looking to leave office with the blessings of the “international community,” the Bush Administration just sold out American interests at the U.N. Climate Change Conference in Bali, Indonesia.

Official conference documents speak of “a new global deal” by 2013, under which the U.S. dramatically reduces its greenhouse gas emissions under international supervision and transfers more money and technology to other countries. Marc Morano, who works for Senator James Inhofe and provides information that the U.S. media will not give to the American people, notes in a dispatch that the Bali conference featured a panel discussion of a global carbon tax to force U.S. taxpayers to cough up the money. An official U.N. report (PDF) prepared for Bali speaks of “a need for new and additional external sources of funds.” That’s U.N.-speak for global taxes. This is actually an old story I have been following for years. You can read more at my http://www.stopglobaltaxes.org website.
----

Romney, Rudy and Huck will all do this too.
Hunter/Tancredo/Paul or I will now even consider Thompson, to avoid trashing out country electing one of these supreme liars as Romney, Rudy and Huck are, in my opinion.
Based in solid evidence of their records verses their speech

Savage Alum
It only took me 12 months to become an Elder and get married in the Mesa Temple.

Why would it take you 2 years? I hope you are not being discrimated against for some reason.

Read Again Brett
Brett writes: Monday,
December, 17, 2007 4:26 PM
Spiceman - the liar
---
A Spicy Response:
Quoting out of context does not work Brett.

Please Re-read.

"The following is a list of misguided souls, uniformed posters, false accusers OR liars"
-------
Videoranger
Sarah
talent scout
cornpone harry
MoniQue
Bluepiper
AudiR10
Action
jritterbush
AnimalFarm1984
Nancy
wwerth
budbud
Bret"
-------

This is an example how we all fail at times to understand what has been said. so we express it in our own words, that at times we discover we, read it wrong.

Thanks for your sincerity.

Brett
I gave you too much credit. God can visit us whenever He likes and has the Holy Ghost here in the mean time and a prophet, but we don't dictate to Him as He knows His mind and will and reveals it to us at His leisure. If you were Adam I guess you would have been pissed to not have it all spelled out for you on day one.

Being presumptuous, impatient and defining God's timeline to satify man's curiousity is not part of the equation.


More waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, whine, cry
Accuse
Savage Alum writes: 5:01 PM
TS


Ante up with your candidate or go away
------
ts:
Try and make me
This thread is about the slime ball Romney.
My focus is on this hypocrite and his lying supporters.
If you do not like it, tough ti**y, cry baby.

Bad faith Spiceman
So lumping all of those people in a list with some of who may be liars, makes you honest?

That strikes me as horribly dishonest on your part.

Or do you think being lazy and lumping people together to discredit all of them is a noble thing to do?

Brett
Well mister question man and I wonder about your membership due to your word choices, when someone is baptized one is to have repented as we believe in faith and repentance and then baptism. If you mess up along the way, there are questions about sincerity. I messed up and needed to revisit my committment. I am still on course and prepared to do whatever it takes to make my committment valid and not convenient or shallow. Its me that has to truly accept Christ and I can show that acceptance with the way I act not just easy words.

Savage Alum
Since the Mormon God is no more than just a man who has slowly progressed to be God; How is the Mormon God that much different from my earthly father, who is willing to be here for me?

Brett We All Make Mistakes
But the biggest mistake is not to correct our mistake, and mend the fences.

There are no bad people, we only misguided, ignorant deceived and sometimes blinded by pride.

DID YOU READ THIS BRETT? This is the truth.

"Hawk writes: Monday,
December, 17, 2007 12:46 PM
Let's be clear... "
"Romney was an advocate for gay rights but never for gay marriage. He battled Massachusetts activist judges over gay marriage and enforced a little-known 1913 law to prevent Massachusetts from becoming the Gay "Las Vagas" of marriage during the gay marriage crisis imposed upon the state by activist judges."

"(See here: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june04/gaymarriage_ 5-17.html "

"Romney made campaign promises to protect the rights of gays (and he kept those promises without ever compromising his long-standing opposition to gay marriage.) "

Romney critics are all over the map on issues, "but they hardly ever have their facts straight."

TS
What are you? 5?

talent scout - you are better than that
You are a great debater, no need to sink to the level of the nutty Mormons.

Remember you are adopted by the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. You are well favored by the Lord. They despied and spit on our Lord. You can expect no less.

Stay humble and speak the truth in love or just don't say anything. OK?

Spiceman - I am still waiting
Since you claim you are willing to correct your mistakes, I expect an honest apology for lumping me in with people you consider Liars.

I said it very humbly
Brett writes: 5:24 PM
talent scout - you are better than that
You are a great debater, no need to sink to the level of the nutty Mormons.

Remember you are adopted by the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. You are well favored by the Lord. They despied and spit on our Lord. You can expect no less.

Stay humble and speak the truth in love or just don't say anything. OK?
------
ts:
Just felt I needed to sweetly remind agent 99 to not be rude and follow me into love for all.

Brett and God
An unknown, uncreated, immaterial spirit nothingness never has and never will endow men with the gifts of the Spirit or assure them of an eternal celestial home. The truth about God, the truth about religion, the truth about salvation—these things can only be known by revelation.

Pride so Huge And Heart So Small
Pride So Huge And Heart So Small

talent scout writes:
Monday, December, 17, 2007 5:14 PM
More waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, whine, cry
------
A Spicy Admonition
When you have the truth you need no excuse.

It is obvious that this is only, as I can understand, about your politics. Anything to discourage votes for the man who threatens your candidate. That is not a very good example for the one you support, which you never seem to mention much. Of course you know that would not be a good ad for them, Right?

So why should anyone pay any attention to what you say?

Your are all over the pace and no proof. Anything you want to know that the church teaches is found at http://www.lds.org , again you will find out the real history on the racial slurs, where you will find the facts for them at http://www.blacklds.org and http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/

We love the truth, because the truth is the only information that will keep us free. Cheers. I like your waaaa, waaa song. Love it!

I thought this very extremist
Hard Hearted and mean spirited, boo hoo.
Telling me to go away.

-----

Savage Alum writes: 5:01 PM
TS


Ante up with your candidate or go away
------
From a swelling chest of love I just sweetly told him to try and make me go away.
Its just my normal loving way to answer bossy people who need to feel my love.

He is so lovable he needed to be recognized

what a laugh
Evangel, or baptism, born againers, KKK members, same thing, you won't vote for a Mormon, good for you, but now the Mormons won't vote for your fraud, hickabigot, they use to, sadly, Mormon don't vote Bush, 4000 young men are still alive today,,,it won't happen again, read the boards.

A Mormon who would vote for huckabee, is like a Jew who would vote for Hitler.

Game, set, match.

Born again bigots reality here, you can't win without the Mormon vote. 6million+ gone, do you win? nope, and no more wars where a idiot says God told me to do it.

Hey, The rapist huckabee let go, then raped and killed two more women, he still saved by grace?
I religion for lazy idiots.

Re: Brett
I remember you from the early days of this campaign. You've been pounded so many times on these threads I'm surprised you bother to show your face (figuratively speaking, of course). You must be masochistic.

This is like Saturday Night Live
Spiceman writes: 5:43 PM
Pride so Huge And Heart So Small
Pride So Huge And Heart So Small

talent scout writes:
Monday, December, 17, 2007 5:14 PM
More waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, whine, cry
------
A Spicy Admonition
When you have the truth you need no excuse.

------
ts:
Even the word truth takes on a look of blasphemy coming from you, lol.

freetothink...nobody is worried
about alienating mormons. Have you ever tried to alienate a mormon when he knocks on your door? This new strategy of scaring republicans "if you don't vote for a mormon then mormons won't vote for any other candidate" is an improvement from the re-directing and "evangelizing" by giving out mormon web-sites but americans aren't afraid of alienating mormons. One more thing, Mitt is really a divisive candidate, every time he opens his mouth another group of people are offended - this polarization is unamerican that is why his polls are stagnant.

MSM HAS POISONED THE WELL

.....After reading the posts on this thread ...most of which concern religion ...mormon and Baptist ...I can see that the MSM has been successful in diverting the debate away from the real issues and has Republicans fighting among themselves over whose religion is best ...

.....This is a losing arguement and only helps the Democrats who are mostly secular ...

.....Huckabee should not even be considered because he is a Baptist Minister and this should disqualify him from the Presidency ...I wouldn't vote for a Catholic Priest or a Jewish Rabbi so why would I vote for Huckabee? ...

.....Romney would probably make a good President but he has too much baggage ...the MSM would savage him over his Mormonism and there are too many bigots who would not vote for him just because he is Mormon ...

.....The Logical choice for Conservatives is Thompson who is a casual church goer as was Reagan ...Carter was the orthodox Baptist and he went down in flames ...

.....Romney has good executive skills and if Fred won maybe he could appoint him as the Secretary of the Treasury or find a place for him in his Cabinet .....COLOSSUS

Big G and little Mormon God
Big G says: "An unknown, uncreated, immaterial spirit nothingness never has and never will endow men with the gifts of the Spirit or assure them of an eternal celestial home. The truth about God, the truth about religion, the truth about salvation—these things can only be known by revelation."

Most Christians (not Mormons) I know believe in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is God with us. Most Christians (not Mormons) believe Christ and God created the Universe in a great event that scientists call the Big Bang.

So where were the Mormon man-gods standing when the Universe came into existance? Oh that's right you don't know and NONE of your LDS Prophets have an answer and your Mormon man-God will not tell you the truth. :)

Mitt's Market Share and Stock
I am predicting Mitt's market share was greatly diminished by his MTP interview. Note to the people still holding that stock - you can take losses on your 2008 tax returns, hope you owe enough taxes for this deduction to make a meaningful impact on your taxes. Merry Chrismas Romniacs!

Re: Brett
You advised talentless scout: "Stay humble and speak the truth in love or just don't say anything."

But, you also said: "You are a great debater, no need to sink to the level of the nutty Mormons;" and

"I just don't get why our Father God cannot visit us now. Since we are all just gods trying to become perfect in the next life (according to the lastest revised LDS doctrine), why can't the Mormon God visit us now and help us now."

Do you think name-calling and mocking others beliefs is "staying humble" and speaking "in love"?




The Way We Communicate
Brett writes: Monday, December, 17, 2007 5:27 PM Spiceman - I am still waiting Since you claim you are willing to correct your mistakes, I expect an honest apology for lumping me in with people you consider Liars.
---
A Spicy Answer:
This is what I wrote that you misunderstood:
"The following is a list of misguided souls, uniformed posters, false accusers OR liars"

Which one of the above are you, if your post is incorrect? This is what we all must correct including humble you and me.

If what you stated was false, though perhaps you believed it, that means you are uninformed, or misguided, and we all fall into those categories. To be a LIAR we most know that what we are communicating to be false, in an attempt to deceive. When we are sincere, and find we are in error we make corrections, other wise we try to excuse ourselves. Those are the fruits by which we may determine the validity, intent and character of posters by the way they act, correct and communicate. Cheers!

Brett
Is God/Jesus, the one you have personal relationship with-a spirit, or a resurrected being?

Bravado - funny guy
I have always tried to speak the truth in love as a former Mormon who testified to the facts about Mormonism (having been an Elder, served on a mission, married in the Mesa Temple).

Sadly Mormons like Bravado can't stand the truth and try "pounding" on me to get me to leave.

The Truth set me free from Mormonism and I am more than willing to share the Good News with others.

Calling me names just doesn't hurt compared to the Glory and Joy of knowing the eternal Christ.



Big G - all three
Jesus is an spirit, HAD a physical body, and now is still a spirit who can APPEAR with a body if he wants to.

If you think God has a physical body, please explain how God created this Universe and can be in more than one place at a time with a physical body? :)

Re: Brett 6:15pm
Your obfuscation was nearly poetic. I have always been in awe of your willingness to mock others, and then to shrink back like a battered puppy.

To follow up on Big G's question, how does one establish a "personal relationship" with a vapor? Just wondering.

Spiceman - True or False
Did Joseph Smith have sex with other men's wives?

Brett

My most humble apologies, it is "Christians" not "mormons" that have revelations from God and are not divided. Its "Christians" not "mormons" that speak for God and interpret the bible in a way that all "Christians" agree.

It is "Christians" that speak for "Christians".




sorta
baseball doc-
i sorta had it the other way around--mitt first and fred as v.p.!
elvis

Give Me Your Ward And Bishop's Name
freetothink writes:
Monday, December, 17, 2007 5:48 PM
what a laugh
----
Why don't I believe you friend, that you can speak for me. You are showing little respect for yourself, not to mention who you insinuate that you represent, which just cannot be.

“By their fruits ye are known.”

Cheers!

Brett
When Christ appears again in the same manner in which he left (with a body) we will be like him (with a body).

If Christ is a spirit, what is the point of having a body, what is the point of the Resurrection? Will we be spirits or will we be resurrected after the Resurrection and Final Judgement?


big g - which mormon church?
Which Mormon Church do you belong to?
RLDS, LDS, fundamentist Mormons, or one of the other smaller sects?

Bravado - are you sensitive
Sorry, I really do not think asking questions and talking about the nature of God is mocking other's beliefs.

I was taught by Mormon missionaries that God was once a man and progressed to become a God.

Are you saying that Mormon missionaries are mocking Christians when they go door to door teaching Mormonism to Christians? Hmmmm...

Sounds like you think it is only mocking if Mormons don't get caught doing it.

Brett
Which Christian Church do you belong to?
Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, fundementalist Berean, or one of the smaller sects?

Classic "Christian" Line
Brett
"I have always tried to speak the truth in love "


You Be The Judge
Brett writes:
Monday, December, 17, 2007 6:20 PM
Spiceman - True or False
Did Joseph Smith have sex with other men's wives?
----
A Spicy RAeply:
The truth as far as I now, He was Married once, though anti-Mormons have given him 7 to you ha name it. Just before he died, as recorded, that he was accused of having seven wives, and he commented, "How can that be, when I only find one."

Thank you for helping to bring out the truth. It may not be your intention, and we are free to choose, just remember, "Trust and integrity are precious resources, easily squandered, hard to regain. They can thrive only on a foundation of respect for veracity." --Sissela Bok - Ethics and Harvard Medical School- 1978

big g - humans will be both
big g says: "If Christ is a spirit, what is the point of having a body, what is the point of the Resurrection? Will we be spirits or will we be resurrected after the Resurrection and Final Judgement?"

Our human bodies will be resurrected from our dying bodies that have been ravaged by living on this fallen earth. We will no longer suffer and die from illness nor old age. We will live eternally with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit on a new earth.

What more could you ask for? Ethernal life living with Christ and God.



Convert baptisms
An interesting fact:

When there is positive media attention about the "Mormon Church", convert baptisms increase.

Yet, when there is negative media attention about the "Mormon Church", convert baptisms still increase.

Strange, and seemingly counterintuitive, but it seems that any media attention has positive benefits for the Church. But why does negative attention have this impact, you wonder (I can hear you asking it Brett)? Because it makes people curious about the Church, and its easy to see through the bull. Any novice can see that Brett is blowing smoke (careful though, that smoke could be your God).

So Brett, keep on keeping on. You are providing a great service.

Spiceman - what evidence would you
What evidence would you accept that Joseph Smith took others men's wives as his own?

Would the Mormon women's testimony in Court count?