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Friday, February 13, 2009
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Iraq's Quiet Transformation
by Charles Krauthammer
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WASHINGTON -- Preoccupied as it was poring through Tom Daschle's tax returns, Washington hardly noticed a near-miracle abroad. Iraq held provincial elections. There was no Election Day violence. Security was handled by Iraqi forces with little U.S. involvement. A fabulous bazaar of 14,400 candidates representing 400 parties participated, yielding results highly favorable to both Iraq and the United States.

Iraq moved away from religious sectarianism toward more secular nationalism. "All the parties that had the words 'Islamic' or 'Arab' in their names lost," noted Middle East expert Amir Taheri. "By contrast, all those that had the words 'Iraq' or 'Iraqi' gained."

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki went from leader of a small Islamic party to leader of the "State of the Law Party," campaigning on security and secular nationalism. He won a smashing victory. His chief rival, a more sectarian and pro-Iranian Shiite religious party, was devastated. Another major Islamic party, the pro-Iranian Sadr faction, went from 11 percent of the vote to 3 percent, losing badly in its stronghold of Baghdad. The Islamic Fadhila party that had dominated Basra was almost wiped out.

The once-dominant Sunni party affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood and the erstwhile insurgency was badly set back. New grass-roots tribal ("Awakening") and secular Sunni leaders emerged.

All this barely pierced the consciousness of official Washington. After all, it fundamentally contradicts the general establishment/media narrative of Iraq as "fiasco."

One leading conservative thinker had concluded as early as 2004 that democracy in Iraq was "a childish fantasy." Another sneered that the 2005 election that brought Maliki to power was "not an election but a census" -- meaning people voted robotically according to their ethnicity and religious identity. The implication being that these primitives have no conception of democracy, and that trying to build one there is a fool's errand.

What was lacking in all this condescension is what the critics so pride themselves in having -- namely, context. What did they expect in the first elections after 30 years of totalitarian rule that destroyed civil society and systematically annihilated any independent or indigenous leadership? The only communal or social ties remaining after Saddam Hussein were those of ethnicity and sect.

But in the intervening years, while the critics washed their hands of Iraq, it began developing the sinews of civil society: a vibrant free press, a plethora of parties, the habits of negotiation and coalition-building. Reflecting these new realities, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani this time purposely and publicly backed no party, strongly signaling a return -- contra Iran -- to the Iraqi tradition of secular governance.

The big strategic winner here is the United States. The big loser is Iran. The parties Tehran backed are in retreat. The prime minister who staked his career on a strategic cooperation agreement with the United States emerged victorious. Moreover, this realignment from enemy state to emerging democratic ally, unlike Egypt's flip from Soviet to U.S. ally in the 1970s, is not the work of a single autocrat (like Anwar Sadat), but a reflection of national opinion expressed in a democratic election.

This is not to say that these astonishing gains are irreversible. There loom three possible threats: (a) a coup from a rising and relatively clean military disgusted with the corruption of civilian politicians -- the familiar post-colonial pattern of the past half-century; (b) a strongman emerging from a democratic system (Maliki?) and then subverting it, following the Russian and Venezuelan models; or (c) the collapse of the current system because of a premature U.S. withdrawal that leads to a collapse of security.

Averting the first two is the job of Iraqis. Averting the third is the job of the U.S. Which is why President Obama's reaction to these remarkable elections, a perfunctory statement noting that they "should continue the process of Iraqis taking responsibility for their future," was shockingly detached and ungenerous.

When you become president of the United States you inherit its history, even the parts you would have done differently. Obama might argue that American sacrifices in Iraq were not worth what we achieved. But for the purposes of current and future policy, that is entirely moot. Despite Obama's opposition, America went on to create a small miracle in the heart of the Arab Middle East. President Obama is now the custodian of that miracle. It is his duty as leader of the nation that gave birth to this fledgling democracy to ensure that he does nothing to undermine it.

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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For a supposedly smart man,
Mr. Obama has been remarkable less-than-smart on almost all fronts during the first three weeks of his administration. The result is the appearance of arrogrance that no leader can survive.

Charles, What you wrote is a very big
event and a tribute to America. It is a dam shame the press is stuck on Obama that this reward for the deaths of our young men and women goes unnoticed.

In the meantime Nancy Pelosi and her husband are getting more than rich off of her earmark you can see on PresidentialBalls.com . The Pork has gotcha...

PresidentialBalls.com

Actually it woudn't have mattered
If there was absolutely NOTHING else for the media to report on aside from this story. They STILL would have ignored it because it goes 100% against their template of how they want the situation in Iraq to end, in failure.

Otherwise they'd have to admit that Bush's goal of a free and Democratic Iraq has indeed been realized.

AND THEY'D RATHER DIE THAN ADMIT THAT BUSH'S POLICIES WON.

What astonishing gains?
Krauthammer's claim that "Iraq moved away from religious sectarianism toward more secular nationalism" is misleading.

The Shiite religious parties did particularly well. In contrast to Krauthammer's claims, al-Maliki's Da-wa party is a religious party with close ties to Iran. Da'wa is not a secular party.

He also claims that "the pro-Iranian Sadr faction, went from 11 percent of the vote to 3 percent, losing badly in its stronghold of Baghdad." Other, more respected sources, suggest that this 3% figure underestimates the Sadrists performance (Kruathammer is palying it fast and loose with the actual numbers here - see http://www.juancole.com/2009/02/religious-parties-sweep-sh iite-south.html)

The only good thing about this is that these parties now want a strong central government rather than a shiiite mini-state.

It's really a shame when Krauthammer complains about the lack of coverage and then proceeds to distort the results himself.

Dougie
If you don't mind, nah even if you do mind, I and most other Townhallers are going to have to give Charles Krauthammer's take on this subject (and any other subject) A lot more weight than we can give you, F-minus for you--Ya FRUIT.

Thanks, Charles
Of course there was no coverage in the local rag... not one column inch. I'm tempted to forward this to a couple smug BDS-t*rds I have had the misfortune to encounter along the way, but I must ask myself: Why? As with the posts that are sure to smear this blog, they are so closed-minded on the subject that I'd rather tell it to my dog (a Border Collie and quite intelligent) or even a brick wall, since certain degrees of arrogant & ignorant certitude don't deserve an 'I told you so!' so much as just plain outright scorn.
I wish the Iraqi people well, and I am certain that at some point they will repay us.

Charles is on the money (as usual)
Amen StoneRock!!! For some reason (???) I think Charles' brain is a wee bit better than Dougie.

Charles Must Have Missed This
Apparently Charles hasn't noticed that in the past two days more than 40 Iraqis have been killed by car bombs and earlier this week four US soldiers were killed in Mosul. But who cares about dead Americans and dead Iraqis as long as people voted. Oh, and the voting turnot was much lower than they expected.

the wheel is still turnin'
Muqtada al-Sadr's party ran a strong second in both Baghdad and in the Shia south.

While the U.S. opposes al-Sadr, this is good news, for Muqtada is far more of an Iraqi nationalist than is the pro-Iranian al Hakim of SCIRI, or even al-Maliki.

Perhaps he and al Maliki's DAWA party can form some sort of consensus government...but it would require alot of outreach to the Sunnis.

And I ain't sure al-Sadr is up for that.

The 3 Kurdish provinces in the north did not participate in the national elections, which is no surprise as the Kurds desire their own independent nation.

While Krauthammer possibly stumbles upon a trusim with his observation that Obama(and others)might argue that "American sacrifices in Iraq were not worth what we achieved", no one yet knows for sure.

Will Iraq serve to inspire democracy movements in the greater Muslim world?

And even assuming it does, is that necessarily a good thing?

Will democracy movements augur in more moderate leadership in the Muslim world, or enhance the power of Islamists?

Certainly elections in Gaza, Lebanon, and Egypt did not result in gains for the moderates, but rather for the Islamists.

And how much of an impact will the Bush policy of borrowing to finance this war limit the financial and economic viability of future generations of Americans(who will be saddled with paying off the principal and interest of the bonds purchased by foreigners to finance this war).

Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel prize winner in Economics, claims the ultimate cost of Iraq will be 3 trillion dollars.

AMEN JOE!
To joe_America... my sentiments exactly.

And Yet Leahy and Other Leftists
want to form "Truth Commissions" or some such nonsense, in a thinly veiled plot to charge GWB and others in his administration with war crimes. I'd be curious to see where Iraq's voters come down on that issue.

MALIKI, DEMOCRACY AND HEZBOLLAH
We hear that the big loser in the Iraq's provincial elections "may have been Iran" Then again Iran may have lost nothing. Iraq is practically an economic client state of Iran's and Maliki continues to enjoy strong Iranian support as was evident during the Basra operation when the mullahs (so we hear) kept al Sadr under house arrest to muzzle him-until he agreed to tell his followers to cooperate with Maliki, lay down their arms and take to the streets in peaceful protest.

Things are not what they seem in Iraq.

Let's not forget that the Lebanese Branch of Maliki's Islamic al-Dawa Party joined Hezbollah in the late 1980s and Maliki remains a strong supporter of Hezbollah (and Hamas) and its program to subvert Democracy in Lebanon and impose totalitarian rule over the country.

No true lover of democracy would support theocratic totalitarian Hezbollah or Hama's violent jihad to destroy democratic Israel.

And let's not lose site of the fact that Maliki is a frequent guest at the home of terror master Ayatollah Khamenie where out of respect for Iran's Supreme Furor he refuses to wear a tie, a symbol of Western decadence. Before all else Maliki is a Shiite fundamentalist beholden to Iran and his world view remains closer to Tehran's evil plans than Washington's vision of the good.

I believe that history will prove me right and that the biggest mistake George Bush made was to surge our forces in Iraq and not direct them toward Iran. Now we have a President in office who makes George McGovern look like Ronald Reagan; a blind man of staggering stupidity and naivety with a huge capacity to turn Iraq into America's next Vietnam.

Click ApolloSpeaks and read my piece: The Rise of Nuclear Iran on page 2 of my blog.






Dr Dipstick
Your post at 2:42 is a joke. Tryed your web site 3x, no go. That 3% is being reported by the msm.
Kirk

Iraq's gain is our loss
Of course credit for good will not go to whom it should in the U.S., but certainly every mistake will be blamed on Bush. I still think history will show that GWB did many things right. I think Obama is the worst thing that has and is happening to the U.S. -- the irony is that Iraq becomes a democracy and the U.S. is losing theirs. Who will help us?

nice
Great story, Mr. Krauthammer.

Couldn't agree with you more! And yes, those sacrifices by Americans are worth it - they're all heroes who invest their lives the MOST HONORABLY today and beyond.

Such Irony
Obama rode on the coattails of ending the war in Iraq, just as the Dems did in taking Congress in 2006.

Of course neither the Dem Congress or Obama have lived up to their words.

Now, both the Dem Congress and Obama are in control, having used our military for political power and Iraq is shaping up quite nicely. Great article Charles. Music to my ears!

i fear...
...that Obama & Co. would be more than happy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so they can say they knew it was a mistake all along. his lapdogs in the MSM would also be more than happy to carry the water for him. a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one. to people who have no problem selling out their own country for their own selfish interests, throwing the Iraqis under the bus will not cost them a nanosecond of sleep.

How can we force a Bush defeat?
Obviously, we dare not let it look like George W. Bush brought some level of democracy into the middle east! Every bright liberal knows that was, is, and always shall be impossible. So, to avoid any sign of success for the people of Iraq, we must join with Iran to crush them back into the kind of state that can only be saved by liberal partnership with Islamic law and order to save the middle east from any sign of control by voters instead of a strong Saddam Hussein or Achmajinedad.

Quick, add another $trillion to insure that we can buy this defeat of Bush!

ApolloSpeaks
There is an article you may find interesting.

It is written by Juan Cole.

http://www.tinyurl.com/c7g931

It confirms your assertion Al Maliki's DAWA party is close to Iran.

While I still think Al Sadr is more of an Iraqi nationalist than either Al Maliki or Al Hakim, it seems the Sadrists came in second in Baghdad and a few smaller Shia provinces, but I overstated the case that al Sadr's party made a strong showing throughout all of the Shia areas of Iraq.

If your point is that Iran is the greatest threat to the entire mideast as well as to the United States, then the Bush decision to remove Iran's greatest foe in the region(Saddam) logically worked to the advantage of the Mullahs in Iran.

I still hold out hope for Iran, since when the people vote, they often have elected moderates...much to the dismay of the Mullahs.

OBAMA
is undermining our freedom.
Is our freedom less fragile that it is not irreversible?
If the Iraqi press stays free they have a better chance than we do.

Bill in Illinois
Deaths in Iraq? Really? Any deaths in Chicago, St. Louis, D. C., Los Angeles, Houston, New Orleans, Miami, et. al. Do you blame President Obama for those deaths?

Why do you fear a successful Iraq? Is it because America would be better off? Or do you prefer an American defeat?

Dr Douglas
Obama is proving himself to be a real whiz kid isn't he?

More Krauthammer articles
I want to see an article on Why a democratic, pro-West Iraq is necessary?
A Convert State to idea of live-and-let-live
Protection of Suez Canal & shipping
WMD protection
Stopped ethnic cleansing(as in Serbia/Croatia)

Iraq
Krauthammer just refuses to admit the Iraq war was a complete fiasco.

Or should I say he refuses to admit he was wrong to support Bush's debacle.

Obama and Iraq
The reaction of Obama on remarkable achievements in Iraq by Iraqis confirmes the truth:

Obama is a time bomb created by and serving anti-American Lefty Radicals: "anti-American" meaning against America we knew.

Good bye, America!
It was not a big fun to watch how she was sliding into the anti-American Socialism mud.

Ignored
Krauthammer states that the 2005 elections were

"the first elections after 30 years of totalitarian rule "

which ignores that the Kurdish provinces held elections through most of the mid 90s all the way until the 2005 elections. He should have stated that in 2005 the first national elections were held.

It may seem a small omission, unless you're a Kurd who suffered through decades of oppression including Saddam's 1988 genocidal Anfal campaign.

Kurds stand to lose seats in parliament due to larger Sunni participation. Article 140, which allows for oil-rich Kirkuk to become part of the Kurdish region by popular vote, has been shelved indefinetly.

We have turned our backs on the Kurds numerous times, mostly to appease Turkey, but to the greater Arab world as well.

Iraqi Kurds have stood with us since the beginning of the 2003 invasion. Their security have been instrumental in the troubled city of Mosul, as well as deploying to Baghdad during the surge. Yet we show them less respect than the Sunni Awakening groups who were a major part of the insurgency.

If our goal is to champion human rights, democracy and support for allies, Obama should move to support independent status for Iraqi Kurdistan, something Bush should have done years ago.

Proud of the Efforts of our Military
Wow, what a great article on an event of which I had been completely! The several thousand American lives that were lost for the sake of a nation a half world away have created a fledgeling democratic miracle in the middle east. This fact should be heralded throughout the nation as the return on an investment that we all made, but for which those soldiers paid the most dear price possible.

Bar Racism from the Voting Booth
If voting according to "ethnicity" is the result of "primitives having no concept of democracy", then most of a large racial block of Americans are also guilty of such ignorance. Perhaps those voters will follow the Iraqi lead, and mature enough to vote according to a democratic principle in time for our next set of elections

What reaction? What truth?
>The reaction of Obama on remarkable achievements in Iraq by Iraqis confirmes the truth:

Obama is a time bomb created by and serving anti-American Lefty Radicals: "anti-American" meaning against America we knew.

Good bye, America!<

If there's truth to be had, it's your anti-American reaction.

The Unravelling
I have a very strong belief that Barack Obama wants nothing to do with the messy business of foreign policy even as it relates to national security. His singular focus is on our social, ideological and economic structure and his ability to place his imprint upon them.

Obama has already overreached with his full court press for "his" stimulus plan and his gutting of the national security policies put in place by the Bush Administration. His vision for an America of the government, by the government and for the government will have two consequences, more likely to manifest themselves sooner than later.

First will be an economic malaise, from which, we will likely not recover soon and one that puts us at increased risk of terrorist attack. Secondly, by putting Iran, Iraq, Russia et al on low priority, they will rapidly become increasing threats to our national security.

Pooh Pooh it if you will but just remember, you read it here first folks.

JERABAUB: MALIKI, IRAN & IRAQ
jerabaub:

The article by Cole was spot on. Thanks

Essentially Maliki's commitment to democracy is no greater than Hezbollah's or Iran's; and Obama's commitment to the success of Iraq's democracy is a far cry from his predecessor's. Maliki emerging as a strongman is a good possibility (as Krauthammer suggests).

As for the wisdom of Bush's decision to invade Iraq verses Iran the Israelis begged Bush to invade the latter as it was the more dangerous of the two countries. However, if we had done that it would have greatly benefited and streghthened Saddam who would have aided the mullahs in the insurgency period as Iran aided Sunni insurgents in Iraq.

After the elections of 2005 or sometime in 2006 we should have left Iraq and invaded Iran whatever the consequences to Iraq. Worst than sectarian war in Iraq is the catastrophe of a nuclear armed Iran and its destabilizing affect on the region-the fomenting of Islamic revolutions, spurring a nuclear arms race and nuclear confrontation with Israel.

The relative calm in Iraq is the lull before the storm. With a weak administration in Washington led by a President preoccupied with domestic issues and perceived by our foes as a push over-the clouds of strife are gathering fast and the region is ready to explode.






What policies?
> his gutting of the national security policies put in place by the Bush Administration.<

Obama is closing Gitmo. Is that your idea of gutting national security policies? You have a very narrow world view, one based on partisan sniping, not reality.

Last week, VP Biden made overtures to Russia that were met with positive response.

Former Iranian President Khatami is running against Ahamadinejad on a campaign of moderation and cooperation with the west. This has pushed Ahmadinejad into a more moderate position concerning relationships with the west.

SOS Clinton is meeting with China, whose cooperation will be necessary to deal with North Korea, who actually has and is testing long range missles capable of reaching the US west coast.

How do any of these real life scenarios indicate low priority, or increasing threats to national security?
You're simply making fringe speculations with no supporting context.


How sweet it is.

To all those misguided but destructive souls with a vested interest in both Iraq's and America's defeat...

... put this in your pipe and smoke it!

And as promised, I'm not going to tell them "I told you so." But I guess I just did.

Charles K, however, is right. The Iraqi government is still fragile, its future not guaranteed.

But the latest results are great indeed.

How truly sweet it is.


WHAT ABOUT THIS CHARLES?
Female bomber kills 32 on Iraqi pilgrimage route

Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:14am EST
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE51A1HI20090 213

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A female suicide bomber killed 32 people and wounded 84 others south of Baghdad on Friday when she blew herself up on a major Shi'ite religious pilgrimage route, police said.

The attack in Iskandariya, 40 km (25 miles) south of the capital, came a day after a bomb killed eight people in the southerly Shi'ite holy city of Kerbala. Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims are heading to Kerbala to mark Arbain, one of the most important dates in the Shi'ite religious calendar.
The Arbain rite marks the end of a mourning period after the anniversary of the death in the seventh century of the Prophet Mohammad's grandson Imam Hussein.
The attacks occurred despite heavy security on the pilgrimage route.
A sharp drop in the violence that swept Iraq after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion helped allies of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki score extensive victories in Iraq's Shi'ite south in a provincial election last month.
But suicide and car bomb attacks remain common. Suicide bombs are often a hallmark of Sunni Islamist groups like al Qaeda.


great article Charles
It's good to get any information out of Iraq that the media doesn't report.

These days they only care about ratings and will run stories only about violence and death in Iraq.

Freedom is a wonderful thing. Throughout American history many have died to protect American freedom. I hope that Iraq will also benefit from this.

Charlie S
THANK YOU PRESIDENT BUSH for accomplishing this!

Notice that Barry the Doper NEVER says a word about Iraq, but is CONSTANTLY worrying about Afghanistan. HMMM! A LONG TIME Doper WORRIED about an area REKNOWNED for its Heroin Production. Coincidence?!?!?!

CZAR IN CALIFORNIA
Are you actually comparing deaths war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan with deaths in big American cities? If you don't know the difference between a military engagement and street crimes you are really in trouble.

DANNV: THE UNRAVELING
DanNV writes:

The Unravelling

I have a very strong belief that Barack Obama wants nothing to do with the messy business of foreign policy even as it relates to national security. His singular focus is on our social, ideological and economic structure and his ability to place his imprint upon them

ApolloSpeaks:

You have it exactly right. Obama wants to be a domestic President, not a war time leader. There is little or nothing of the warrior in this man. He wants a kinder and gentler foreign policy in contrast to his predecessor, one that suits his urbane, passive and gentle temperament.

Click ApolloSpeaks and read my piece: Perils of a War Weary Nation in the Tragic Age of Barack Obama for more insight.


Doesn't Report?
>It's good to get any information out of Iraq that the media doesn't report.<


The Iraqi elections have been covered on a daily basis, it just hasn't been front page news due, as Krauthammer admits, to preoccupation to events in Washington.

Does that mean you're incapable of turning to page 2 in your paper? I've been reading about the Iraq elections every day.

Cathy
writes, "If voting according to "ethnicity" is the result of "primitives having no concept of democracy", then most of a large racial block of Americans are also guilty of such ignorance."

Nice point. Can anyone explain why 'primitives with no concept of democracy' always vote the democratic party? We could say the most religious party in the U.S. swept the last elections. The climate change religionists, that is.

CHARLES SHOULD READ THIS
Charles Krauthammer is like so many of the columnist on TV. They haven't got a clue what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. I suggest they read my blog that gets over 1,000 "hits" a day from people want the TRUTH about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan: CORKSPHERE: http://corksphere.blogspot.com

this bodes ill
Usually when Krauthammer declares victory it is a sign that things are about to fall apart. Remember when the Cedar Revolution showed that democracy was coming to Lebanon and then the middle east. Then Hezbollah sparked a war with Israel and became the dominant political force in Lebanon. Krauthammer's earlier predictions of victory in Iraq were equally followed by massive setbacks in Iraq.

And sure enough, since the election violence has been spiking up, presumably by people not happy with the outcome.

It still seems like the election went well, if not as well as Krauthammer's cherry picking of information suggests. But Maliki's victory followed his administration insisting on a timeline for a US exit and making clear that they would be happy if we got out first.

Krauthammer is celebrating the Maliki victory, but ignoring that the victory was premised on a rejection of Krauthammer style policies.

To Pancho from UT
You wrote:
"...it's your anti-American reaction."

Pancho [Sansa?], it may be of interest to you:
there are very good psychiatrist in the NY State.

Small victory
To think that the USA can actually do some good in the modern, pessimistic world. One would think there would be some more cheering, but it seems as though we are too busy creating our own disaster.

Pancho
You wrote "Does that mean you're incapable of turning to page 2 in your paper? I've been reading about the Iraq elections every day."

I do not get the paper here for many reasons, and have rabbit ears on the tv, but usually skip the news. The Denver post has about one conservative writer who usually gets less than one page to post his opinion. The rest of the paper is pure left. I hear praising of Obama and not much else. They certainly did not follow the election much as I saw it. I usually find my news through articles on the net.

Dr Douglas??
What are you, a psychologist? You're no doctor. Juan Cole is an anti-American leftist. Please don't pollute TH with idiotic articles.

Good question
>MR PRESIDENT WHERE ARE OUR TROOPS THAT YOU PROMISED TO BRING HOME<

You mean the ones Halliburton didn't electrocute?

PANCHO: KHATAMI, AND OLD DISGUISE
Pancho writes:

Former Iranian President Khatami is running against Ahamadinejad on a campaign of moderation and cooperation with the west. This has pushed Ahmadinejad into a more moderate position concerning relationships with the west.

ApolloSpeaks:

Both moderates and extremists in Iranian theocratic politics are Khomeine jihadists. They differ on means not ends for advancing their radical Islamic revolution to restore Islam as a great world political and military power. The moderates believe cooperation better suits the revolution, extremists believe confrontation is the better way. Khatami is one of the architects of peace loving moderate Hezbollah. His peace offensive as Iran's president during the 90s was a sham that won economic concessions from the West giving nothing in return. Khatami was Bill Clinton's Iranian Yassir Arafat. Clinton bent over backwards to accomodate Khatami, and in the end he was kicked in the groin. Khatami replacing Ahmad will change nothing. The war would continue using an old disguise with a President more senseles than Clinton




KHATAMI, AN OLD DISGUISE
Pancho writes:

Former Iranian President Khatami is running against Ahamadinejad on a campaign of moderation and cooperation with the west. This has pushed Ahmadinejad into a more moderate position concerning relationships with the west.

ApolloSpeaks:

Both moderates and extremists in Iranian theocratic politics are Khomeine jihadists. They differ on means not ends for advancing their radical Islamic revolution to restore Islam as a great world political and military power. The moderates believe cooperation better suits the revolution, extremists believe confrontation is the better way. Khatami is one of the architects of peace loving moderate Hezbollah. His peace offensive as Iran's president during the 90s was a sham that won economic concessions from the West giving nothing in return. Khatami was Bill Clinton's Iranian Yassir Arafat. Clinton bent over backwards to accomodate Khatami, and in the end he was kicked in the groin. Khatami replacing Ahmad will change nothing. The war would continue under an old disguise with a President more senseles than Clinton




Survival
Most great civilizations fell from within. The U.S.A. will be no different. It is now the strongest nation the world has ever known and will probably continue to be so for a few years. However, new leadership, without a clue, will be the undoing of the United States. It will not survive as a Socialist state and those who are now in control do not have a clue as to how to run it, how to deal with our friends or our enemies. I'm afraid they are looking through a glass darkly and will soon be consumed by their own incompetence.

Iraq and the U.S.
Anyone who believes that the U.S. (an invading army from a predominately Christian country and Israel's blind supporter) is going to bring democracy to Iraq is beyond clueless.

Iraq may over a period of decades turn into a nominal democracy but it will never accept it from the end of a U.S. rifle.

NICK
Really?

Israel's blind supporter? What does that even mean? Oh... you had an anti-semetic college professor so now you are an expert on Israel. Gotchya.

Apparently you aren't aware of this but democracy is already in Iraq. As much as it might pain you to see the military succeed, Iraq has been an overwhelming success thus far.

Why do people like you insist on pretending that Iraq was some sort of utopia before the US came along? Saddam Hussein wasn't the great guy you want to pretend he was. Dictators don't rule by listening to the desires of their people. Ask any non Baathist what they thought of life in Iraq under Saddam. I fought in Iraq and I can assure that even while many Iraqis hate American soldiers, they hated Saddam more. A new generation of Iraqi children is growning up seeing that America is benevolent and that radical Islam brings nothing but ruin.

You can wish for Iraq to fail all you want but the seeds of democracy have been planted and no amount of pessimism from mindless dim-wits like yourself can stop it from growing.


ApolloSpeaks
The following is from Wikipedia:

"Rafsanjani was succeeded in 1997 by the moderate Mohammad Khatami. His presidency was soon marked by tensions between the reform-minded government and an increasingly conservative and vocal clergy. This rift reached a climax in July 1999 when massive anti-government protests erupted in the streets of Tehran. The disturbances lasted over a week before police and pro-government vigilantes dispersed the crowds".

Khatami was re-elected in June 2001 but his efforts were repeatedly blocked by the religious Guardian Council. Conservative elements within Iran's government moved to undermine the reformist movement, banning liberal newspapers and disqualifying candidates for parliamentary elections. This clampdown on dissent, combined with the failure of Khatami to reform the government, led to growing political apathy among Iran's youth".

We sometimes agree, and other times we don't.

I think Khatami had the potential to be a genuine moderate.

Would he have been a "democrat" as we understand the term(not the party)?

Probably not.

But I think we could easily have worked with him, at least compared to North Korea, Pakistan, Syria, etc.

I just don't think we should foreclose the possibility that moderates can govern Iran, especially in view of the sentiments of the Iranian people.

I think Iran, unlike most Muslim nations, would elect moderates if given the opportunity.


Nick for Illinois
Sad how low the state of Illinois has sunk since Lincoln. It has been all down hill since then. You and Obama are living proof about how far the stupidity has spread there.

The only
problem, jerabaub, is that Khatami is the one that started the nuclear thingy. Hopefully, he would be more of a moderate but I would keep my swords to the ready, just in case.

Few Comments
What a fantastic article. I did notice however that there are very few comments. By this time on many other articles there would be over 400 comments ripping apart what was said, bashing republicans or what have you. Because this is good news and indisputable for the moment those who had wished for failure just choose not to acknowledge the success.

Super Article, Charles
I would like to ad, though, that I'd love to see President Bush get the credit on this that he deserves. But I won't my breath since I don't think it's God's time to take me home just yet.

However, I suspect that this is the reason that Obama has little to say on it. He can't find a way to grab the credit without looking like a fool. That, and the fact that he's pretty much clueless on foreign matters which any thinking person already knew and voted against him.

Obama is much too busy turning the great USA into a Socialist State to please the progressives who selected and groomed him years ago for this purpose. Immediately after the election, I was willing to give him a chance to become a somewhat decent president after all.

That lasted about two days, which may have been about a day-and-a-half too long.

Victoria
A big AMEN to you on that one!

The irony here is that Obama.....
...will get the credit. If the America's adveture in Iraq turns out to be more success than failure, it is the administration in office that will be credited with that success.

Bush left office with America, and arguably - the world, in tatters. If Obama turns it around, he's golden.

Obama undermine it…
You bet'cha…every time he gets the chance.


Brenda # 60

Good Assessment :-)

JERABAUB
The sentiments of the Iranian people may be for moderation and democracy (they want what Iraq has), but they count for nothing with the mullahs; they live to serve the theocratic state and its ideological aims. The mullahs are as entrenched in power and are as intransigent in their views as was Saddam Hussein who lived to become the Joseph Stalin of the Middle East: king and ruler of the Arab world. Domestic opposition to Saddam was just as great as it now is in Iran, and just as futile. The Iranian people are terrified of their masters; for the most part they are docile and passively accept their chains. What happened in the late 90s was an opportunity for the regime to flush out and punish dissidents and enemies.

Reformers within Iran's system are not revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries. They are Khomeine jihadists and have no intention to overturn the mullah tyranny and change direction of the state. Cosmetic changes here and there with the press or woman's rights are as far as reforms will go. Because Khatami-an architect of Hezbollah-remains a Khomeine loyalist, is ideologically correct, he is allowed to live.

True moderates can only come to power in Iran if the regime is violently overturned from within or without or unless it gets an Ayatollah Gorbachev at the top. For now only the fate of Saddam and the Taliban will suffice for removing the mullahs and that means a U.S. lead invasion or a preemptive thermonuclear strike by Israel.

A non Islamist Iraq!
This is an encouraging event, on a grand scale, if it holds true considering the ongoing and increasingly successful encroachment of the Islamist movement in the west. Britain denies entry of Geert Wilder because his 15 minute movie Fitna "incites hatred for Muslims". The Netherland's politician is under 24 hour police protection because of death threats from the "peaceful" Muslim community. Free speech is under attack and assassination threats go largely unreported or ignored. Where's the outrage?

Bush Iraq
If Bush did such a wonderful thing in Iraq I have a suggestion.

Since he is now out of a job he should go to Iraq and bask in their adulation.

They should be happy to see him since he "liberated" their country.

Yo Nick
Have you seen the comparisons to the deaths in Chicago and Baghdad? If you go by the numbers, Bush or anyone else would be safer in Baghdad than in the DEMOCAT run city of Chicago. I'll bet Baghdad is even more financially solvent, what with the over $20bil deficit in the Illinois retirement system alone.

YO Bill
How about some perspective here. You live in ILL. right? Have you looked at how many murders have been committed in that wonderful bastion of Democrat rule, Chicago?

Iraqis have to use bombs and still don't reach the number of murdered as the windy city. Baghdad is not doing badly for a an area considered to be a war zone.

By the number of murders, one might think the war in Iraq/Baghdad has moved to Chicago.

Thanks Kirk
Thanks for taking the time to get the facts. BTW, is the MSM even still in Iraq? You wouldn't think so with the lack of reporting, except for the occasional car bombings, which the lefties here gleefully report.

savage tribal types
NICK

"Iraq may over a period of decades turn into a nominal democracy but it will never accept it from the end of a U.S. rifle."

I don't know Nick, but it seems to me that the U.S. Army has a pretty good track record when it comes to house breaking savage tribal types, such as the Japanese, the Koreans, the Germans, etc.

Is it really your contention that Arabs are any stupider or less adaptable than the Japanese were?

Ralph
You got it buddy! I live in downtown chicago and have a business in Chicago and I will tell you this place is falling to pieces. You can't drive on the roads for fear of disabling your car, the labor department comes in and shakes you down, the unions are thugs (they actually came and super glued our locks so we couldn't get in because we used non-union labor who were relatives) you have people get their health sanitation certificate and pass it on the spot and they give you a piece of paper to prove you passed until your actual certificate comes but then they will send an inpector in the next day, ask to see your certificate you show them the temp and they fine you anyway saying you must have the original certificate. I could go on and on but to put it bluntly, it is all a scam and an embarrassment.

Go back and read....
about the founding of our own country. Even after the official War of Independence, there was terrible bloodshed, almost amounting to our own civil war. It was called the Dark Years, where many retributions were visited on those who were on the "wrong" side of the conflict. When you consider this, how would you be surprised at continued conflict in Iraq until, like here, fighting eventually ended for a variety of reasons.

The reasons ranged from loyalists leaving other countries, to them being tried and hanged with their properties lost to the states attainder orders.

The point is, no country has a "clean" start, not even the U.S., which even with the spectre of European Socialism taking over, is still the greatest nation ever.

Which is closer to being correct?.......
The Dems who prophesied our defeat with tens of thousands of body bags being filled with our soldiers, or Krauthammer? Right now, I'd give the nod to Charles, instead of the traitorus Democrat politicians who did everything short of declaring themselves jihadists to defeat our efforts in the WOT.

BTW, has anyone heard any more noise from the Abu Sayaf in the Phillipines?

hail to the chief
Why would any of us expect a different reaction Mr. Obama? He was against the war. The Democrats for the past four years have consistently said the war is lost, so why are we surprised? Real scum bags the entire group. They are so far from the American agenda, it is scary.

Referring to Obama's "duty. . .
. . . as leader" assumes the presence of leadership qualities within. Granted I do not know the man personally, but I have yet to see him exhibit any.

Hope and Pray
Let us hope and pray that Iraq, after we leave, which is what the citizens there want, remain stable and secure.

History shows that it takes only a small minority of the determined--a platoon, so to speak--to start a revolution.

When I was small, a movie came to our town called "The Thief of Baghdad." This was in the fifties. Today, under Maliki's leadership and Bush's, the story is The Miracle of Baghdad. What has happened there is astonishing beyond words and yes, it should be shouted from the rooftops. Moreover, I agree, Obama should do nothing to undermine this amazing success story and success reality in our time.

Mr K Says:
to paraphrase"when U become president of a country, U inherit it's History even the parts U don't agree with"
That might be distasteful to Mr OB..He does not seem to have much inclination for disclosing any part of his history..Not unless it serves his immediate needs!!
It will be interesting to see how the next 6months unfolds.. HOLD ON TIGHT!!

Yo Bill
I didn't think I'd have to explain the comparison of deaths in a U.S. city and Baghdad, but let me try to explain it so even you can get it.

Baghdad is considered a war zone. Chicago is a U.S. city in a peaceful nation. You with me so far?

Most reasonable people would expect deaths in a city located in a war zone to be significantly
higher than murders in a city located in a country where a war is not being fought. Have I lost you yet?

The point is our military and the Iraqi army/police forces have done such a good job that the deaths in a city in a war zone are less than those of Chicago.

On one hand, kudos go to those who did the job in Baghdad, while shame should be felt by those running Chicago.

As far as not knowing the difference between deaths in a war zone and those in a U.S. city, those who are killed and their relatives aren't much interested in political situation at that point, the dead are still dead. In both instances murder has taken lives.

If you don't get that concept, then there is little hope you ever will.



Ralph in CA
I think that since things are the way they are in Chicago that we should call it a lost cause and do what the Dems. want to do with Iraq. You know, "pull out".

so it was worth it?
What was the point of Bush firing Lawrence Lindsey for claiming Iraq could cost more than $100 billion? Remember, the justification for firing him was that "he was wrong" it would "cost much less." Lindsey was wrong -- we are looking a 3 trillion now. Iraq certainly has changed -- women now wear head coverings, alcohol is largely banned -- and best of all Christianity can no longer be practiced. Perhaps a majority of Iraq's Christians have either been killed or have fled Iraq over the past 6 years. These people have survived 1000 years of being a minority to a variety of Islamic leaders -- but they could not survive an American occupation. Neocons believe in no accountablity at all (and do not care that Bin Laden was never killed/captured). If God really told Bush to invade Iraq, then God is Allah since the Christian minority has been devistated. Of course, GWB knew better than his dad or Brent Skowcroft (people forget about their book authored in 1999). Skowcroft was a hero for being one of the lone Republicans to come out against Iraq. By the way, going to Iraq elected Hamas and the current radical Iran leadership (who had a moderate leadership prior to our invasion). I guess we should let the brilliant people who planned this fiasco off the hook.

Dubya (America) was duped

re:
"Axis of evil...how dumb was Bush?"

Presidente Jorge (more concerned about embracing ILLEGAL aliens than honoring his oath to defend and protect the border) was simply duped by the neoCONS who had permeated his W.H. He publicly, proudly boasted to a Zionist group early on: "I have taken more than 20 of your members into my administration."

As chronicled in various books, such as-- "Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War"
by Michael Isikoff and David Corn (both Jewish)-- the intel was cooked because the Zionist perps simply wanted to take out Iraq for Israel, just as the neoCONS had called for starting in 1996. Wolfy, Perle, Wurmser, Abrams, Libby and Feith simply played Cheney and Dubya like a Stradivarius at prodigious expense to America so Israel could get some permanent AMERICAN bases in Iraq for its protection.

The neoCONS have also played the religious right for suckers with the constant braying about the Judeo-Christian heritage and bond... they equate whatever might be good with Israel as synonymous with good for America. This is why former libs, even socialists, the neoCONS glommed onto "conservatism." One must read assiduously to fathom the details of the deceit; it is deeply unnerving and discomfiting, but it ultimately explains Bush's stunning admission that the greatest regret of his 8 years was that, "I did not have better intel about Iraq." In other words, we should NOT have taken out Iraq!

http://zfacts.com/p/neocons.html
http://zfacts.com/p/253.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editoria ls/articles/2007/11/04/a_lazy_simplistic_analogy/

KRAUTHAMMER HAS IT ALL WRONG ABOUT IRAQ
Charles Krauthammer must be attending the Dick Cheney School of "glowing reports" about Iraq, because the truth is violence is on the rise again in Iraq (39 Pilgrims killed Friday by a female suicide Bomber in Iraq) and two days before there were two suicide bomber attacks that killed over 40 people.

Krauthammer also fails to mention four American soldiers were killed in Mosul, Iraq earlier this week.

Krauthammer should take a look at my blog about the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan if he wants to tell the REAL TRUTH about what is REALLY happening in both war zones. He can find it here:
http://corksphere.blogspot.com
Please, Mr. Krauthammer start doing your homework.

Bill,and Various Other Idiots
What do you know, after the rampant evils of Saddam and the fanatical al queda indiscriminate killings [a smattering which still continues], the Iraqi's are as willing, even eager, to embrace a democratic form of government as say, the Japanese after WWII ... how did THAT work out? Don't tell the liberals!

I'd say Kraut has this one EXACTLY RIGHT ... and the world is far better off. Now, ONE more good example, and I think the fanatics might start to get the message ... Iran, are you listening? [Not gonna happen with the ever unserious lib in the White House; but, I can dream!]

History
is vindicating Bush before our very eyes. Of course Obama and the media will not take note since it undermines them.

Bill
You are a typical glass half empty goober. I notice when a bar is set at a certain level, you just keep moving the bar so it becomes unachievable. to you that is winning, to the rest of the world it is cheating.

BTW you can criticize Iraq and security, suicide bombings etc when America has a day with no crimes committed.

How's that for an unachievable bar??!!

Take the plank out of your own eye.

Bill Corcoran's
blog, to which he refers readers, is full of videos which show US forces in action, together with dead Taliban. He seems to think, somehow, that this is terrible --imagine, the military actually killing people!--and an argument for terminating action there rather than an argument that further effort is needed to achieve worthy goals (e.g. the ability of women to be educated). Bill C seems either to be a pacifist who is unwilling to try to argue a straightforward case for his position (which, historically, has convinced relatively few) or a complete jackass. If I had to guess, I'd guess the latter.

Support Our Troops
This is the reason our forces were sent to Iraq. To remove a tyrant murderer and allow the people to chose their own government. What else could be said? The cries to support our troops ring true in the victory of democracy in a former dictatorial country. All this was done in spite of Iran's influence on the Iraqi government and people.

Obama's approach for reaching out to Iran will be quite the rocky road, when we review the latest Intel summary concerning the Mideast. http://tinyurl.com/c4s7cd

Can't Admit He Was Wrong
Obama can NEVER acknowledge the progress that has been made in Iraq; it would require him to admit he was WRONG. No can do.

Besides, Iraq wasn't so bad before America intervened. The Iraqi people had enough to eat, and as long as they kept their criticism in their heads, life under Saddam was good for most of the population. Just a few got dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night, raped or killed or disappeared.

The lifestyle Obama envisions here in the U.S. for those wise enough not to cricize him.

Inherit History
You say that the President inherits its' history. I believe that President Obama wants to erase American history as if it has been wrong all this time. He does not want to continue the success of America and make it greater, he wants to cut off the past and move in a completely different direction.

Charles Krauthammer
I have never seem Mr. Krauthammer so upset about the things that are going on right now..He is a awesome man and has a great deal of intelligence..When you see him show unfavorable emotion you know we are in trouble!
Thank you Mr. Kraughammer..I really apprecaite who you are and what you stand for! Susan, Va. Beach

The Iraq war
Doesn't seem to have dawned on the "anti-war left or the MSM that the war belongs to Obama now. They are still in the all is lost mode of thousands died, trillions & trillions wasted & Bush/Cheney lied.
At some point the news will dawn on them that their guy is in charge now & these latter day flower children will all turn into General Patton.

The new "forgotten" war
The Democrates want to forget this war because of the lesson we learn about Vietnam...we could have WON!

Yes Bill the WAR IS LOST
Harry Reid said so and he isn't calling for getting the troops out asap.

Wish someone in the ruling elite class would start asking themselves, "Why were our allies not able to hold Afganistan?" "Were they incompetent or neglectful?" Only with the U.S. in the lead can there be a fight against Islamic terrorists?
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