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Friday, December 05, 2008
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Iraq Under the Radar
by Charles Krauthammer
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WASHINGTON -- The barbarism in Mumbai and the economic crisis at home have largely overshadowed an otherwise singular event: the ratification of military and strategic cooperation agreements between Iraq and the United States.

They must not pass unnoted. They were certainly noted by Iran, which fought fiercely to undermine the agreements. Tehran understood how a formal U.S.-Iraqi alliance endorsed by a broad Iraqi consensus expressed in a freely elected parliament changes the strategic balance in the region.

For the United States, it represents the single most important geopolitical advance in the region since Henry Kissinger turned Egypt from a Soviet client into an American ally. If we don't blow it with too hasty a withdrawal from Iraq, we will have turned a chronically destabilizing enemy state at the epicenter of the Arab Middle East into an ally.

Also largely overlooked at home was the sheer wonder of the procedure that produced Iraq's consent: classic legislative maneuvering with no more than a tussle or two -- tame by international standards (see YouTube: "Best Taiwanese Parliament Fights Of All Time!") -- over the most fundamental issues of national identity and direction.

The only significant opposition bloc was the Sadrists, a mere 30 seats out of 275. The ostensibly pro-Iranian religious Shiite parties resisted Tehran's pressure and championed the agreement. As did the Kurds. The Sunnis put up the greatest fight. But their concern was that America would be withdrawing too soon, leaving them subject to overbearing and perhaps even vengeful Shiite dominance.

The Sunnis, who only a few years ago had boycotted provincial elections, bargained with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, trying to exploit his personal stake in agreements he himself had negotiated. They did not achieve their maximum objectives. But they did get formal legislative commitments for future consideration of their grievances, from amnesty to further relaxation of the de-Baathification laws.

That any of this democratic give-and-take should be happening in a peaceful parliament just two years after Iraq's descent into sectarian hell is in itself astonishing. Nor is the setting of a withdrawal date terribly troubling. The deadline is almost entirely symbolic. U.S. troops must be out by Dec. 31, 2011 -- the weekend before the Iowa caucuses, which, because God is merciful, will arrive again only in the very fullness of time. Moreover, that date is not just distant but flexible. By treaty, it can be amended. If conditions on the ground warrant, it will be.

True, the war is not over. As Gen. David Petraeus repeatedly insists, our (belated) successes in Iraq are still fragile. There has already been an uptick in terror bombings, which will undoubtedly continue as what's left of al-Qaeda, the Sadrist militias and the Iranian-controlled "special groups" try to disrupt January's provincial elections.

The more long-term danger is that Iraq's reborn central government becomes too strong and, by military or parliamentary coup, the current democratic arrangements are dismantled by a renewed dictatorship that abrogates the alliance with the United States.

Such disasters are possible. But if our drawdown is conducted with the same acumen as was the surge, not probable. A self-sustaining, democratic and pro-American Iraq is within our reach. It would have two hugely important effects in the region.

First, it would constitute a major defeat for Tehran, the putative winner of the Iraq War according to the smart set. Iran's client, Moqtada al-Sadr, still hiding in Iran, was visibly marginalized in parliament -- after being militarily humiliated in Basra and Baghdad by the new Iraqi security forces. Moreover, the major religious Shiite parties were the ones who negotiated, promoted and assured passage of the strategic alliance with the U.S., against the most determined Iranian opposition.

Second is the regional effect of the new political entity on display in Baghdad -- a flawed yet functioning democratic polity with unprecedented free speech, free elections and freely competing parliamentary factions. For this to happen in the most important Arab country besides Egypt can, over time (over generational time, the timescale of the war on terror), alter the evolution of Arab society. It constitutes our best hope for the kind of fundamental political-cultural change in the Arab sphere that alone will bring about the defeat of Islamic extremism. After all, newly sovereign Iraq is today more engaged in the fight against Arab radicalism than any country on earth, save the United States -- with which, mirabile dictu, it has now thrown in its lot.

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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How many "associations" will we ignore?
How many “associations” are we going to ignore and simply just let a CHICAGO THUG and Michelle Angela Davis Obama waltz in and DISGRACE THE WHITE HOUSE?

We have one last chance to contact the Electoral College to stop the constitutional crises that will result if Barack Obama gets sworn in without meeting the presidential requirement of being a natural born US citizen.

AMERICA IS CALLING – SHE NEEDS US NOW: PLEASE SIGN THE LETTER TODAY! Deadline is Thurs Dec 12 1pm (EST), takes 30 seconds, FOR THE COST OF A COUPLE PACKS OF SMOKES LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD!
http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/%E2%80%A2-ur gent-sign-fedex-letter-to-electoral-college/

The letters will be sent FedEx to all 538 members of the Electoral College and will be delivered Friday morning, giving each elector the weekend to consider the constitutional issues raised by Obama's presidency.

Remember: We are not responsible whether they listen or they fail to listen, but we ARE responsible to deliver the message [Read Ezekiel 2 & 3]

Hello Charles, They WON
The agreement means nothing. The democrats won presumably because the people like their ideas more. The democrats won the congressional election they say on a get out now stance. They have won the presidency because their guy said we should never have been there.

Get out now! The question should be the security of our troops as they move out and how fast they can be moved. I doubt it would take a general the stature of a Patton to move one hundred fifty thousand troops sixteen months. Republicans should stop arguing and hold the democrats accountable. My nephew, now in Iraq, should not have to risk his life now that the majority has accepted we should be out of Iraq. Every soldiers death and every dollar spent must be held to account.
Where's the call for the investigation by Pelosi and Reid? Where was the democrat loyal opposition when the reports were going into the intelligence committees regarding terrorists wanting to get their hands on weapons of mass destruction? Why didn't they vote against the invasion?
The loyal opposition has the obligation to hold the other side to account for their policies.

Water boarding etc...
So, some people have to die because we wont forcibly extract information that could save lives ....that is the price we have to pay to be again loved and respected and seen as a kind nation by the rest of the world, right?

Pres. Jorge focused on wrong bad guys

I voted 2x for W, but I am sick about it. The war in Iraq was a profligate war of choice against the wrong Arabs; Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, and Saddam and Osama were opposing parties.

We will have spent $2 TRILLION all-in with thousands killed and maimed-- all because the neoCONS then manipulating the Bush W.H. (Perle, Wolfy, Feith, Libby, and Wurmser) wanted permament American bases in Iraq for Israel's protection-- the dirty little secret.

Meanwhile, Presidente Jorge believed in open borders, so he failed to uphold his most fundamental oath-- to defend and protect our border. Like Amnesty John, he made a Faustian deal years ago for employer lobby $ and Hispanic votes-- both quislings failed to get the latter, even as they sold out America to the indigent, ignorant ILLEGAL alien invasion... which will likely leave a legacy of an America morphing into a third world welfare state as ILLEGALS are enfranchised and vote it in.

Iraq like Hitler's Poland?
First said that the Iraq invasion was "no different than Hitler's invasion of Poland". Oh, really? No different? Was Poland ruled by a 30-year tyrant and despotic murderer? Was Poland a sworn enemy of Germany? Had Poland invaded its neighbors on several occasions? Had stateless despots from the region just killed 3000 Germans?

Get real. You people are so full of hate that you can't think straight. You really can't.

The 9-11 Perpetrators
Hey Hal, wake up. We nabbed the "mastermind" behind the 9-11 attacks long ago....Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Where you been? And ironically, since you're trashing and want Bush tried over "waterboarding", KSM's capture and the subsequent use of this method of pressurized interrogation led directly to LIFE-SAVING information. Please, get a clue. BDS lives on.

Hal,Koolmuse,Jerabaub
Please stop cutting and pasting stuff by other people. Try to come up with some original thoughts. The stuff you keep rehashing over and over reminds me of the stuff I step in when I'm out in the corral.

Kool Aid Alert

Actually educated people know the Middle East is a security concern of the United States.

Thats where the 9-11 High Jackers came from.

Many of the High Jackers are dissatisfed with their own governments. They would like to overthrow the governments in their home land and install a Islamic Government ruled by Islamic Law and that is their right to do.

Unfortunately, after several failed attempts to overthrow these governments, they have decided that its easier to attack the source of these government's wealth. They have concluded that the source of that wealth happens to be the west.

That makes it our business. Many Liberals take a narrow view and look at just one country at a time. They are incapable of seeing a bigger picture of the middle east as a whole.

Radical Islam does not view themselves as citizens of Iraq, Kuwait, Eygpt, Saudi Arabia or whatever. They veiw themselves as citizens of Islam. Islam's borders include the entire planet.

To Hitchhiker in OK
You wrote:

"Hal Donahue
You don't have to get down on your knees like Jane Fonda or koolmuse and pray for communism to be able to at least acknowledge its existence and the fact that there are only two competing ideologies in political economy. That is freedom or non-freedom (communism) and all points in between. Where a particular candidate falls on that continuum is discernible to anyone paying attention."

Let's not forget Commie Bush for sending American citizen's jobs to Communist China and 3rd world dictatorships to save a buck for business. Let's not forget Bush's "free market" bailouts for Wall Street thieves which will saddle future taxpayers with much steeper and onerous taxes causing hardship for families and business star-ups. Also thanks to the heroism of Patriot Jane Fonda, the Vietnamn disaster ended. Had it not been for Jane, thousands more of our young men would have been squandred needlessly in the jungle, and billions more in U.S. taxpayer dollars would have been wasted on another unwinnable war instead of being put to good use here in the USA.

Makes no difference
It makes no difference what temporary agreements America makes with Iraq to militarily occupy their lands. Any way you slice it it is immoral. America has no business in this part of the world. None. Zero. Zilch. The United States has no duty, obligation, responsibility or right to interfere in the sovereign affairs of foreign states who've posed no threat to our nation or people. Iraq obviously was never a threat and those who believed it was were either supremely naive or had imperial ambitions to extend the American Empire and used WMD's as a pretext for invasion.
The Iraq War and occupation is an an illegal war of aggression no different than Hitler's invasion of Poland.
Obama's probable continuation of the bellicose U.S. policy only increases worldwide terrorism towards Westerners as we have seen in Mumbai just last week. Because terrorists cannot strike down the U.S. military, every innocent American traveler will now become a potential target for Islamic violence to avenge the Bush administration brutal policies of mass murder and occupation.

To LC in MD...............
A hearty thank you also fellow patriot, and a very Merry Christmas to you and yours...God Bless!

Patriots unite ... there is ...
still time to sign the WND petition to compel Obama to verify that he IS a Natural Born Citizen... just go to this link and sign...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550

Jerry & LC
Thank you for your posts. So nice to read something so pleasant amongst some pretty tacky posts.

Especially by koolmuse, who really is a speed bump.

Koolmuse, stop taking the Lord's name in vain on this board.

Silver Lion
Thank You! I second that!

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours1

Hal Donahue
You don't have to get down on your knees like Jane Fonda or koolmuse and pray for communism to be able to at least acknowledge its existence and the fact that there are only two competing ideologies in political economy. That is freedom or non-freedom (communism) and all points in between. Where a particular candidate falls on that continuum is discernible to anyone paying attention.

Thank you Jerry
An absolutely BEAUTIFUL post. It was so refreshing to read.

God bless you, your family, especially your son.I too have someone serving. We know the real deal.

Merry Christmas!

Hal Donahue
writes, "If you think Congress or President-Elect Obama are Marxist you are either uneducated or a liar. Which is it?"

You seemed to be making an extra effort to sound reasonable today and, then this zinger?

Obama claimed it in his own words. "I sought out the Marxist professors". All of his campaign rhetoric and , that of his chief rival, was straight out of the words of Marx himself.

The only question is how much of his philosophy will he and the Congress attempt to actually accomplish. It is certainly not a drastic change of course for the country or anything like that. But,it does represent an opportunity to move even further that direction than the compassionate conservatism (aka socialism lite)has done. The only question is not what direction we are moving. The only question is how fast and Obama represents an acceleration.

If you cannot acknowledge this, you are either uneducated or a liar. Which is it?

Very sad for our country from Ohio
Have mercy on us Lord. We need you in our arrogance as a country. Our mouths speak every kind of talk. May we count our days, and realize who has blessed this great country. I have a son in the service that gives people the right to speak good or bad of our country, our Pres. Bush that bowed his head daily to reconize there is a God, Jesus Christ that runs the affairs of all time. You said in the word of God, If we as a nation would humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God, repent and turn from our wicked ways you would heal our land. That is my prayer. For our nation, but for my own heart. The God of Abraham, Issac & Jacob, the only true God. Thank you for jornalist such as this man that I enjoy listening to. People picking at him being paralyzed. Well some are not phy. paralyzes, but twisted from truth. May they find the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. All will not be perfect but His life is the light of the world. Time is in His hand. Eternity is His gift to us for believing in His only son. The mirror of America was founded in Judeo-christian values. How blessed we have been. The Parkers from Ohio

WHAT HAPPENED?
The news reported that barry, on his world celebrity tour (not as yet president-elect), requested the Iraq government not to commit to an agreement regarding US withdrawal, until after he was in office(so he could take all the credit).
Perhaps Iraq was not willing to gamble on barrys tea party talks with Iran, wanting something a bit more concrete, with our outgoing administration. And just maybe that's why, barry has kept Gates on, to cover his butt with the ability to blame the past if all goes awry.
The majority of Americans today seek and expect instant gratification of all their wants and needs. And the same can be said of their expectation of instant victory in conflict.
Americans today have no knowledge or regard for history, nor the 'length' of time and the 'price' necessary for a people and their Country to really be a 'Free Democracy'.
But along came barry, with his promises of instant gratification and the instant ending of conflict, because he knew that would get him elected and it did.
Now the majority of Americans who voted for him will find out how very long it will take their new government to gratify them, and how 'instant' it might be that we ALL lose our Countrys 'Free Democracy'.

Obama will have plenty
The anti-war crowd willbe angry at Obama upon his oath of office(if his certified birth certificate can be found) a sticking detail the United States Supreme Court have been waiting on. Florida may be remembered as peaceful difference if the courts declare Obama ineligible to serve as president of the
United States of America.

Pyrrhic
Pyrrhic Victory a sensible person would call it.

The "residual force" of 50,000-75,000 occupying Iraq should provide a stable enough force in order to secure the foreign ownership of Iraqi assets, and secure a stream of hundreds of billions per year in profit for the investment bankers. Of course all funded by taxpayer debt, but they of course won't see a dime in return.

SpicyChaiLatte
"We have achieved quite a bit in a part of the world..."

Yes, and the entire $700 billion price tag has been dumped onto the national credit card.

Keep up the most excellent social-engineering project in the Middle East, so long as we get to hang onto the precious tax cut.

Islamic Extremism!!
To fruitfully counter Islamic extremism(terrorism), We need all the characteristics of a St. Pius V (Battle of Lepanto). Unfortunately, we have closed all communications with the Source - God. Consequently, God has told us, "Your will be done". Until and unless man turns to God unconditonally, he (man) can, stand on his hind legs and scream as much as he wants, horns may emerge and tails elongate, but, the status quo will not change, even if it is the "Change we can believe". Although it is the truth, expressing the above thoughts may be considered "Politically Incorrect". It just shows how far we have receded from the truth, and how blindly we have accepted Politics - the bane of human existence.

Ridgeway. Weerackoon
lexmh@yahoo.com

Maxstake
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 1:44 PM EST Subject: How About America under the Radar
Sir!

Of far more importance to every True American is the take over of our nation by a Marxist Congress and the 'p'resident elect Marxist Imam Obama..."

Actually it is a true wonder to see the people take control of their country and return it to the people. If you think Congress or President-Elect Obama are Marxist you are either uneducated or a liar. Which is it?

Oh, thank you for your service

Theodore
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 1:22 PM EST Subject: Hal
My point was not where to live my point was that it is a little disingenious for our politicians to demand better cooperation from people who had hated each other for a century to come together immediately when we have been a democracy for 200 yrs and can't pass a budget on time. They voted way better under threat of violence than we do under no such problem.

But, Hey why let the truth get in the way."

Violence or the threat of does tend to focus the concentration doesn't it? LOL good point

"...To your other post. If you do not want to believe the CIA director I can't make you. If you know someone in the know who can refute the Director of the CIA then name him. "

The Washington Post and the NYT carried stories where Tenant admits as much check them out

",,,To the larger point you are right in that torture gets you nowhere long-term. That wasn't what was happening with Kalid Sheik Mohammad. We know that he new of plots to blow up the Holland and Licoln tunnels. We stopped it and put those responsible in prison. .."

not true a fable recheck in reputable press

"...Lastly, the people who got their heads cut off did not get sentenced in a court room..."

Yes they were it is required by Islam

"...Our history has not had to contemplate a terrorist attack that killed 2,974 innocent people..."

Sure we did. I was involved in VP Bush's counterterrorism task force it was ALWAYS a possibility. We actually thought the death toll would be higher but thanks to the security forces in the WTC and the public safety folks we saved well over 20,000 lives. Heck we contemplated a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union lots more dead there.

"..Merry Christmas Happy Chanuka, or winter solstice... "

and to you

Mark
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 12:39 PM EST Hal
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not condone wholesale use of torture, but my definition of torture and yours are obviously different. Not saying you're wrong, only stating that my opinion differs from yours."

fair enough I think mine is based on the law

"...I do have to say though that I very strongly disagree with the idea of President Bush, or any American president being brought to the ICC in the Hague...that is our problem and we do have the means to address it..."

A lot of folks do but the crimes against humanity laws are geared toward countries which cannot or do not chose to prosecute. When a foreign leader goes rogue it is not just that country that has a problem it is the world.

"...t you get the impression... there is no place like home..."

I agree

"...PS - Please don't construe anything said in this thread as a personal attack on you. I just enjoy debating people with differing points of view..."

OK fair enough and thanks

Art
Jeez - What part of "Join the Debate" didn't you get? Oh, you just wanted to read posts from people calling each other names. Real civilized!

How About America under the Radar
Sir!

Of far more importance to every True American is the take over of our nation by a Marxist Congress and the 'p'resident elect Marxist Imam Obama.

Yes Iraq and other problems are here, but to what end if we capitulate to Marxism.

TSGT Uvin A. Clough Jr., USAF, RET.; 619-415-388; San Diego, CA

I often wonder!
Do people care if we succeed? Does anyone pay attention, except to the criticism and negativity, not only regarding the war, but in our societal dealings period?

Seems like the news media skews the news toward sensationalism and negativity. Personally i turn the news on t.v. off nowdays. Even my favorite papers seem to recognize they have to pander to the lowbrow and do so frequently.

Factual news is hard to come by. Just think the auto 'bailout' and the congressional circus that has become (Congressmen are the clown act!)

The news 'readers' seem to think theirselves authorities, not just news presenters. Some of the hosts of the major shows are even attorneys who like to mix it up as though they were in court.

Just want you to know though that some of us are celebrating the victory, though I expect we may yet snatch defeat from victory!

Diane


PITA
All this dialogue among two or three habitues here is a colossal PITA. (pain in the ankle). Some of these people must spend hours daily thinking they are engaging in high level discourse. They should get a life!! The rest of us should scroll right on past these self important bloviators!

Liberals won't here this!
Charles has written an excellent piece here as the fundamental elements of America's involvement with Iraq come to the front and are recognized by those who really care for the world's future. This Iraq/American agreement is a true and fine interception of terrorism and Iraq's borders. Iran should take this agreement with a middle-finger from American troops as they (troops) remember this long and deadly battle for the Iraqi people and the future of earth. Perhaps Iraq's parliament would agree to the placement of future American troops, with iraqi troops, to patrol their borders, especially those separating Iran from Iraq. Moreover, you liberals should remove the hardened political wax from your ears and listen up and recognize that the American military forces made free millions of innocent people from sadistic oppression.

Hal
My point was not where to live my point was that it is a little disingenious for our politicians to demand better cooperation from people who had hated each other for a century to come together immediately when we have been a democracy for 200 yrs and can't pass a budget on time. They voted way better under threat of violence than we do under no such problem.

But, Hey why let the truth get in the way.

To your other post. If you do not want to believe the CIA director I can't make you. If you know someone in the know who can refute the Director of the CIA then name him.

To the larger point you are right in that torture gets you nowhere long-term. That wasn't what was happening with Kalid Sheik Mohammad. We know that he new of plots to blow up the Holland and Licoln tunnels. We stopped it and put those responsible in prison.

Lastly, the people who got their heads cut off did not get sentenced in a court room. They were picked up by Al-Qeada and with camera's rolling got their heads cut off. Our history has not had to contemplate a terrorist attack that killed 2,974 innocent people. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military target mostly; 9/11 was mostly an attack on civilians. We have not waterboarded any one since so even our little exercise in disagreeing on symatic theory is maybe unproductive. Merry Christmas Happy Chanuka, or winter solstice.

Patriots unite .. there is ...
still time to sign the WND petition to compel Obama to verify that he IS a Natural Born Citizen... just go to this link and sign...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550

Bryce1
I know.

Hal Donahue
I don't doubt but that tales from the Pentagon would indeed blow my, and everyone's, mind regarding Iraq, but I am sure Bush crew will classify the hell out of anything critical or embarrassing to the administration on Iraq.

So we won't know, and may not know for decades, the level of deceit.

Unless Obama declassifies this material, we may never know the truth about the extent of deception and fraud this administration perpetrated upon the public.

And Obama, in the interests of unifying the nation, will probably elect to keep this stuff classified.

So Bush droolers will continue to idolize The Man, blithely unaware of just how much he deceived not only them but the nation.

Already he is trying to rescue his tattered reputation by declaring he has "freed" millions of people from bondage, and even has funneled billions of American taxpayer funds to alleviate AIDS in Africa.

Bush always was good at putting foreigners first, and Americans last.

In addition Jerabaub
What the Bush admin knew that legislators and the public did not is that the WMD info came from approx half a dozen human, not technological, sources, all of whom had connections to Chalibi and The INC.

Hal
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not condone wholesale use of torture, but my definition of torture and yours are obviously different. Not saying you're wrong, only stating that my opinion differs from yours.

I do have to say though that I very strongly disagree with the idea of President Bush, or any American president being brought to the ICC in the Hague. I am first, foremost and always an American and have no desire to see this country or her citizens subjected to the "legal" opinions of those who do not have the spines to defend themselves. If the American people determine there has been criminal activity or intent on the part of any elected official, that is our problem and we do have the means to address it. Dragging our country through the international muck serves no purpose other than public humiliatation.

Lest you get the impression that I am ignorant of other countries and cultures, I'll point out that I've traveled the world my entire life, as it seems you have, and lived in many other places, but there is no place like home.

PS - Please don't construe anything said in this thread as a personal attack on you. I just enjoy debating people with differing points of view.

So tiring
You people are so tiring. Hussein had to go. Thank God he's finally gone. He sent assassins to kill Bush Sr.; that should have been enough to justify a war. He shot daily at flights aimed at hemming in him; any of those should have been enough to re-constitute the war. He knew we were uneasy about finishing him, so he got more bold. Don't you remember any of this, or is all that just irrelevant? Two of the first WTC bombers were from Iraq or fled there after the bombing. Hmm, I'm sure that was a coincidence.

That you people are still arguing against victory is typical. The argument is over...and you're just going to look more silly as the decades slip by.

Mark
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 11:47 AM EST Hal
How do you segue from enhanced interrogation of enemy combatants in war to applying those techniques to citizens?..."

That is very easy. What we do to one class of people makes it easier to do to another. This is fact

"... We as citizens (even criminals)are protected by our Constitutional rights against such treatment..."

Really? What clause? Where surely a "good" lawyer or Attorney General can come up with rationale for this course?

"...Enemy combatants are not citizens, ,,, I would whole-heartedly agree with you..."

Actually I don't think you would. Once you cross to the dark side it is awfully difficult to return. You are approving of torturing individuals that is a crime

"...If we follow your logic, we should never resort to extreme measures, regardless of the circumstances..."

As official policy and procedures you are exactly correct exactly. That is why we have laws

"... Yet, you say yourself that ...How is that different?"

I am an individual and I am accountable to the law and must explain or defend my actions before my peers. I have no problem with that. I actually believe Bush should do that before the Hague.

"...What if the intel were right and we did not act? Whom would have to pay the price for that bad decision?.."

No one actually he still had no means to deliver any viable threat and the world knew it that is why most allies abandoned us

"... While getting ...you know, the old you broke it you bought it thing."

first you admit your errors and ask assistance

"...Since we are there, I will stand for my country and my president (even Obama), as long as needed to finish what we started..."

I stand by my country always but part of doing that is speaking out when she has lost her way. History will view this past era as one of the darkest in our history

Mark
You are factually incorrect in asserting all parties involved in the effort made a good faith decision based on information at hand.


They not only did not make a good faith decision, some actually hyped the threat.

Read the comments of then Chairman of Intelligence Committee Bob Graham., as well as others.

Graham was one of the very few members of the Senate to read the entire, unedited NIE(National Intel Estimate)that was compiled to "justify" the decision to invade Iraq.

A later "White Paper", basically the NIE document with all the major dissents removed by the Administration, was released to the public and media, and this shortened and dishonest portrayal of the entire NIE was read by most Senators, instead of the original NIE which contained all the dissents the Administration purged when presenting dishonest White Paper.

The administration censored the dissents from the document, which is dishonest.

And the Senators, except a few, were negligent in not taking the time to read the entire NIE.

Graham was one of the few who did read the entire NIE, not just the piece of crap White Paper the administration dishonestly sluffed off onto the public and Congress.

And having read the entire NIE, Graham voted against authorizing military action to take out Saddam.

And he was right.

Hal
How do you segue from enhanced interrogation of enemy combatants in war to applying those techniques to citizens? We as citizens (even criminals)are protected by our Constitutional rights against such treatment. Enemy combatants are not citizens, hence they do not receive or deserve those protections. Were they enemy combatants as defined by the Geneva Conventions, and their nation were signatories to them, I would whole-heartedly agree with you. They are neither again, so sad ... for them! If we follow your logic, we should never resort to extreme measures, regardless of the circumstances. Yet, you say yourself that in facing imminent danger to your family, you do the smart thing and explain later (I assume even resorting to extreme measures). How is that different?

You are correct in saying that the WMD intel was the tipping point. All actors involved in the decision made a good faith decision based on the information at hand. What if the intel were right and we did not act? Whom would have to pay the price for that bad decision? While getting into Iraq may not have been our brightest decision, we did it, now we have to finish it - you know, the old you broke it you bought it thing.

Since we are there, I will stand for my country and my president (even Obama), as long as needed to finish what we started.

Theodore
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 11:30 AM EST Subject: Hal
Wether you like waterboarding or not is immaterial. The Director of the CIA Tennant ( a Clinton holdover) told you and the world that KSM was given inhanced interogation methods and gave up plots for further attacks on our soil. We used it three times successfully. "

Then he was debunked by his own folks. He lied and admitted as much later when challenged.

"...To your other stupid point: we did not use waterboarding so we could try and convict anyone as you think....The technique was for intell not trial. "

That is my point silly one you get very little reliable intelligence

"...Torture is cutting someones head off ..."

No this is capital punishment

"...or tying up someone with their arms behind them for days and weeks just for the fun of it and nothing more. John McCain was tortured Kalid Sheik Mohammad was not. End of story!!!!!!!!"

Really do we know this? Do you know what was done to KSM? His chief interrogator said it was normal interrogation not enhanced

"...For the record President Lincoln (I think) said that the U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact. "

Your point? I will simply AGAIN point out that never in our history, including the civil war have we approved of torture as a national policy. There we more than a few times when the very existence of the republic was at stake - no torture but here we are threatened by thugs using religious extremism and we claim we MUST torture. Wrong and very weak

Theodore
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 11:12 AM EST Iraq vs USA
...Who has the better democracy people who vote at an 80% turnout under gunfire and threats or a people who can only muster 60% even after 219 years of elections and no violence?"

Go live in Iraq for a bit and find out. The answer is the US

Hal
Wether you like waterboarding or not is immaterial. The Director of the CIA Tennant ( a Clinton holdover) told you and the world that KSM was given inhanced interogation methods and gave up plots for further attacks on our soil. We used it three times successfully.

To your other stupid point: we did not use waterboarding so we could try and convict anyone as you think. We don't need to use those extreme measures because a)it violate a suspects due process rights for COURT. b) KSM was and is never going to see the inside of a court room. The technique was for intell not trial.

Torture is cutting someones head off or tying up someone with their arms behind them for days and weeks just for the fun of it and nothing more. John McCain was tortured Kalid Sheik Mohammad was not. End of story!!!!!!!!

For the record President Lincoln (I think) said that the U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Victory in IRAQ
Let's have a welcome home parade in every city for our service men and women on 11.11.11!

rdk is thinking - Kraut...reacting
News analysis is a good thing. Standing up success is good too. The recent signing is hardly overlooked. Charles IS a member of the MSM so his article IS published all over. But since most of the writers get paid by circulation I can only assume that the continuing posture of CK against the MSM is for recognition and profit. No where in the piece did a quotation appear or any evidence he talked with anyone involved with "the sheer wonder of the procedure". So once again we are left with second hand stuff from folks who just arent in the game but on the sidelines with the rest of us.

Iraq vs USA
Sen. Dick Durban: He equated our troops at Gitmo to Stalinist Guards, Genocidal Pol Pot, and Nazi concentration guards.

Pres-elect (former Senator) Obama: "air raiding villages"

Sen. Kerry: "our soldiers should not be terrorizing women and children in the dead of night."

Sen. Harry Reid: Referring to the surge “the surge has failed.” that was even before the entire surge troops were in theater.

The U.S. Government was shut down twice in Clinton’s Administration and once in President Reagan’s administration because of in-fighting and differences with the White House. I can’t remember how many continuing resolutions were passed to keep the gov’t open passed the deadline for a fiscal year (October 1st).

The Iraqi parliament had only been in existence for two years after thirty years of tyrannical rule. Sectarian differences went back to the time of Mohammad and his successors (hence the Sunni and Shiite sects). It only took them a year to put aside a thousand years of distrust. We have been a democracy for 219 years (1789-2008) and we can’t get a budget passed on time yet demanding that Iraq, under terrorism and hatred to pass controversial legislation NOW!!!

Who has the better democracy people who vote at an 80% turnout under gunfire and threats or a people who can only muster 60% even after 219 years of elections and no violence?

Mark II
"...I'm curious how you would react to the "imminent danger" scenario..."

Sadly that scenario is never real. I have never seen or heard of that being effective and even if it was a captive is more likely to lie and accelerate disaster than assist you.

"...What if it were your own family that was in harms way?.."

They have been in harm's way". You do what is the smartest thing to do at the time and explain later

"... but I don't call techniques that result in no lasting physical or mental harm to someone torture..."

waterboarding for one can cause both and quite quickly

"... In my opinion, there is a vast difference in making someone think they are about to die, versus actually killing them..."

Really ok then we should set one up in every police department and judge's courtroom. let's not fool around. Is this what you want? Where do you stop? You underestimate human courage and stubbornness

"...Neither do I believe that we've always worn a white hat in war. We simply ..."

You just broke the code There is no need and there never has been to institutionalize torture.

Mark
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 10:41 AM EST Subject: Hal
Your final statement that we picked the fight with Iraq leads me to believe that you are one of those who think that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, and nearly ten years of subsequent attempts at diplomatic solutions, along with his non-compliance with the UN resolutions was our fault..."

Oh come on how are you led there? All I am saying is we had Saddam exactly where we wanted him: boxing Iran in; keeping radical Islam at bay and completely ineffectual as a threat. There was no reason to start that war when we already had one in Afghanistan.

"...I will grant that the WMD intelligence failure was ridiculous, but we, along with all of our allies believed the intelligence that we had on that issue..."

We all agreed that Saddam was not a threat until the Bush Regime wanted to go to war. If we did believe he was that serious a threat he would have been gone under Bush 1 or Clinton. Rather than start a needless war keep him boxed until he dies or is overthrown was working

"... WMD's were not the only basis for invasion, although to hear the media and left it was..."

It was the tipping point, a frightened American Congress was not going to "lose an American city" if Bush was correct -- the vote was preordained at that point


After we have left.
"...newly sovereign Iraq is today more engaged in the fight against Arab radicalism than any country on earth, save the United States..."

At present, the USA is paying Iraq to fight. After we have left, will Iraq continue the battle or will they stab the USA in the back?

charles
this guy is the brightest spot on Fox news. He should be secy of state. let hilary carry his
bags, That she could do !!

Hal
Your final statement that we picked the fight with Iraq leads me to believe that you are one of those who think that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, and nearly ten years of subsequent attempts at diplomatic solutions, along with his non-compliance with the UN resolutions was our fault. I will grant that the WMD intelligence failure was ridiculous, but we, along with all of our allies believed the intelligence that we had on that issue. I do not think that a hoax of that scale could have been perpetrated without someone leaking. Curiously, there has been very little mention in the press of the 50 tons of yellowcake that recently was shipped from Iraq to Canada. WMD's were not the only basis for invasion, although to hear the media and left it was.

I'm curious how you would react to the "imminent danger" scenario. If you had captured someone whom you believed to have information that could prevent the imminent harm of others, how would you deal with it? What if it were your own family that was in harms way? Reasoned dialogue might be one approach, but reasoning with a lunatic will generally make one of you. As a matter of course, I object to torture as well, but I don't call techniques that result in no lasting physical or mental harm to someone torture. In my opinion, there is a vast difference in making someone think they are about to die, versus actually killing them.

As to the casualties that you mention, I can only say that war is hell, and people die in a war. Regretable, sad, heart-breaking in most cases but an inescapable fact. Do I believe we've never faced anything like this before, no. Neither do I believe that we've always worn a white hat in war. We simply know more about the realities of the world due to a media who amplifies everything negative and diminishes everything positive (unless it fits their agenda of course).

Krauthammer is right
We have achieved quite a bit in a part of the world that the libtards and conservative isolationists (like Pat Buchanan et al.) dismissed with their moral relativism or elitism with such insipid phrases as: "The Middle East will never accept Western values or democracy...yada, yada..."

Pat Buchanan and George Schulz convinced Ronald Reagan to leave Beirut: this is Buchanan's sole claim to foreign policy expertise. But the question begs itself: Pat, what hath become of the Cedar State of Lebanon after the pullout? Why the decimation of the Christians, the hegemony of the Muslims and now the enforced hatred of Iranian Hizbollah with an uneasy alliance of Hamas. Syria is perched nearby ready to reinvade. What was once the jewel (Beirut) of the Arab Middle East is sadly becoming another totalitarian religious dictatorship under Nasrallah--thanks Pat, you are a freakin' foregin policy genius, just a latter-day Metternich!

Go away Pat, and stink to immigration issues. That is about the only thing you have gotten right. At least G.W.B. didn't listen to you or those senile generals like George Casey, and Bush did find his commanding general like Petraeus.

Of course, the last affirmative action hire, Colin Powell, is a complete blithering idiot and coward and his support of the affirmative-action crybaby power couple in the Obamas spell complete doom and gloom for US foreign policy, the US military and the US economy and the stock market for the next four years. Why Obama is already crying that we will need another four more years. God help us all!!

Dare to compare
When we evaluate the progress that has been made in Iraq and the enormous benefits a stable Iraq can bring to the Middle East, one comment in this article by Mr. Krauthammer should be examined closely: "the new political entity on display in Baghdad -- a flawed yet functioning democratic polity."

This should be compared to our own flailing and dysfunctional "Democratic" polity. It is about time that we demand our own congress achieve parity of action with that if Iraq.

jerabaub
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 10:06 AM EST Hal Donahue
I read Peter Galbraith's "End of Iraq", and thought it was excellent...I guess he got confused, never realizing Sunni and Shia are sects within Islam.

Just absolutely mindboggling. "

The tales from the Pentagon would blow your mind. I hope that they are allowed out as soon as this regime is history.

Tall
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 9:37 AM EST Hal Donahue...
Prior to 9/11 I used to do business with several traders at Cantor Fitzgerald and Eurobrokers. One of my close relatives was in WTC 1 when it was hit. I have little sympathy for tortured terrorists. If were up to me, I would feed the Gitmo detainees to the sharks."

I had an office on Wall Street in the 90s and I have lots of friends in the business. Thankfully all escaped without physical harm. My daughter-in-law is an EMT with the NYC fire department. I know and share your rage but I prefer my revenge to effective and harsh. Torturing allows neither while it might feel good short term

Mark II
"...We know that Khalid Mohammed (only one example) gave us a wealth of information that our military and intelligence apparatus have used to great effect after only 30 seconds of waterboarding. Note that he is still alive and facing sentencing for his crimes..."

Actually was was proven a lie and conventional methods were used on him very effectively.

"...Please cite your source for your claim that 30 prisoners have died under interrogation..."

Check state department press releases about 18 months or so ago. I do not provide sources because they just become a mess of point counter point.

"...I think this is a small burden to bear compared to the countless thousands who have and may still die if these people are not stopped..."

Except that the enemy recruiting gains far exceed our temporary gains. Do you really think that we have not faced this quandry before?

"...Don't pick a fight, but if one comes your way, do whatever you need to do to stand and fight another day..."

We picked the fight with Iraq and let Al Q go. Now we have to correct this major blunder


Mark
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 9:25 AM EST Subject: Hal
So, if I interpret your final comments correctly, you're all for going in hard after the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan. On that I can agree with you if that is the case. "

It is. We let them go free now we have to go get them

"...Just as we did in the 60's and 70's we allowed political correctness and the howling of the unhinged to prevent our armed forces from completing their mission, something that we could have easily done then and now."

Here we part company. There is a cost benefit analysis. Could we have over thrown Saddam of course. Should we have overthrown Saddam given the tremendous costs in treasure, lives and allies I say no. Southeast Asia was a battle in the Cold War. We lost that battle but I put to you it allowed us to win the Cold War with few even noticing.

"...We can differ on definitions of crimes against humanity, ...end this more quickly and with minimal casualties to us..."

We have faced FAR more dangerous enemies than thses terrorists and never resorted to torture as national policy - never. Torture doesn't work and the blow back is high.


Hal Donahue
I read Peter Galbraith's "End of Iraq", and thought it was excellent.

I will read "Unintended Consequences".

Galbraith has alot of close connections with Iraqi Kurds...officials within Kurdish and Iraqi politics.

"End of Iraq" is very sympathetic to the Kurds.

It was Galbraith who wrote, after having a talk with an Iraqi Kurd who was present at a conference where Bush was discussing the invasion of Iraq, that when the discussion drifted to the issue of "Shias" and "Sunnis", Bush interrupted the meeting and said: "Wait a minute, I thought the Iraqis were Muslims".

He was so ignorant Of Islam that when planning the invasion of Iraq, he did not even know that Islam is composed of those two main sects....yet he was planning the invasion of a nation whose official religion is Islam.

I guess he got confused, never realizing Sunni and Shia are sects within Islam.

Just absolutely mindboggling.

Hats off and a salute to............
the Iraqi people, first and foremost...and our gallant troops, of which my nephew is one of those, and another nephew currently in Afghanistan, and to General Petraus....for staying the course.

This is a MAMMOTH Accomplishment!
President Bush has kept America safe for 7 years and now THIS :)! By the time all is said and done as far as Size and Scope of Presidential Accomplishments, ACORN Hopey McChange will have to stand on The Capitol Rotunda to kiss George W. Bush’s A$$!

Iraq Under the Radar
Thanks for such a clear view of the whole topic of Iraq and the evolving of a free country. Thanks for sharing you insight! god bless America and God bless you! Mrs.Job Currie

Hal Donahue...
Prior to 9/11 I used to do business with several traders at Cantor Fitzgerald and Eurobrokers. One of my close relatives was in WTC 1 when it was hit. I have little sympathy for tortured terrorists. If were up to me, I would feed the Gitmo detainees to the sharks.

Hal
So, if I interpret your final comments correctly, you're all for going in hard after the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan. On that I can agree with you if that is the case. Just as we did in the 60's and 70's we allowed political correctness and the howling of the unhinged to prevent our armed forces from completing their mission, something that we could have easily done then and now.

We can differ on definitions of crimes against humanity, but I will say that I have no moral objections to using harsh interrogation of known enemy combatants that may have information that could end this more quickly and with minimal casualties to us. As to the effectiveness of this type of interrogation, you are correct in stating that it doesn't work, but I would add "all the time". We know that Khalid Mohammed (only one example) gave us a wealth of information that our military and intelligence apparatus have used to great effect after only 30 seconds of waterboarding. Note that he is still alive and facing sentencing for his crimes.

Please cite your source for your claim that 30 prisoners have died under interrogation. It would be helpful to debate if the facts were shared. If this is true, it is reprehensible, however using the moral relativism of the left, I think this is a small burden to bear compared to the countless thousands who have and may still die if these people are not stopped.

My father, who was a surviving Ranger from WWII hated war and violence, as I truly think all great soldiers do (and myself). However he taught me a valuable lesson that after 55 years of my life stays with me still. Don't pick a fight, but if one comes your way, do whatever you need to do to stand and fight another day. I'm fortunate in that I have only had to apply this lesson a couple of times in my life, but I'm still alive aren't I? I prefer this state to being in my grave because I hesitated to use sufficient force to defend myself.

over the deep end
Krauthammer really does seem to be driven towards the delusional. He tries to describe the fixed timetable, which the Iraqis insisted on in order for the agreement to have a chance of passing, as a non-fixed thing. He ignores the interim deadline that calls for an end to US operations and patrols, as well as the agreement that Iraq not be used as a base for attacking other countries (meaning mostly Syria and Iran).

He also manages to miss (or hope his reader is ignorant about) the fact that none of the issues that led to civil war has actually been resolved. The decision on the borders for the Kurds was pushed down the line. The relationship between Anbar and the central government won't be decided until we pull out and each side gets a sense of how much power it has.

And as someone correctly noted above, the current Iraqi leaders have more historic ties and more policy agreements with Iran than Sadr does. Sadr wants a government based on national identity, the other shiites, at least historically, have been more open to a trans national shiite identity.

Mark
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 8:43 AM EST Subject: ... Hal and Apollo - You allude to "Bush the Torturer". On what evidence do you make this claim? Underwear on the heads of a few lunatics in Abu Ghraib?..."

No actually on the fact that GW admitted personally ordering the waterboarding (torture declared by almost all nations including the preBush US) and that the State Department admitted that over 30 individuals died while undergoing enhanced interrogations. There is an excellent chance that in the future Bush et al will stand in the dock at the Hague for crimes against humanity. The above qualifies them

"... Please, go to Pakistan or Afghanistan and if you come back alive you will be well qualified to talk about torture from first hand observation of how our enemies treat those on our side..."

Been all over the area from Lebanon to Pakistan I know of what you speak but does that make crimes against humanity OK? My argument against torture is not so much on moral grounds as the fact that is doesn't work

"..I for one am grateful to the men and women of our armed forces,.."

You should be but if you support Bush you are harming the troops

".. and yes, President Bush, for keeping the USA safe for the last seven years..."

He used appeasement I and I think most Americans do not want that especially if it means allowing the terrorists to get control of Pakistan and its nukes.

"... While I certainly hope it is not the case, I sincerely doubt that at the end of the Obama years we will be saying the same..."

Sadly you may well be correct. As we end appeasement and attack the terrorists who planned 9/11 they will try and strike back

Mary Hogan
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 8:24 AM EST Subject: This is what we need.
This is an article that will take me a week to digest and probably years to understand..."

May I suggest that you also consider Unintended Consequences by Peter Galbriath?

Great Article
Thanks Mr. Krauthammer for clearly stating the facts. As is always the case, it is curious how silent the mainstream media is on this subject. I heard an interesting comment on the radio this morning regarding the upcoming administration and Iraq. The assertion made was that if it could be done, the Democrats would love to have engineered a defeat in Iraq, as long as it could be done under President Bush's watch. Now that their hero is going to be the commander in chief, no way. We'll do whatever is necessary to ensure that defeat doesn't happen on Obama's watch. It will be interesting to see how his supporters get their thongs in a wad when he changes his tune on Iraq, which he is already doing.

Hal and Apollo - You allude to "Bush the Torturer". On what evidence do you make this claim? Underwear on the heads of a few lunatics in Abu Ghraib? Please, go to Pakistan or Afghanistan and if you come back alive you will be well qualified to talk about torture from first hand observation of how our enemies treat those on our side.

While there is still the possibility of failure in Iraq (and the rest of the free world), I for one am grateful to the men and women of our armed forces, and yes, President Bush, for keeping the USA safe for the last seven years. While I certainly hope it is not the case, I sincerely doubt that at the end of the Obama years we will be saying the same.

jerabaub
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 8:07 AM EST Hal Donahue
Pretty much agree.

I am not much of a fan of Mona Charen, but she has an article today on this site which praises Bush on his funding for dealing with AIDS in Africa..."

That is the one area he may have done well BUT I think I saw that his programs would not allow distribution of contrceptives, if so it actually caused the deaths and infection of many folks. You can talk about their lifestyles (HIV/AIDS is a hetrosexual infection there) but that will not change without education and an end to violence and war.

This is what we need.
This is an article that will take me a week to digest and probably years to understand.

If only we as Americans were taught the details of operations, rather than political BS, we perhaps could become a more sophisticated rather than manipulated population.

I'm going to study this article portion by portion. Even regular people like me could actually disseminate details avoided by Georgie Soros and his gang.


Hal Donahue
Pretty much agree.

I am not much of a fan of Mona Charen, but she has an article today on this site which praises Bush on his funding for dealing with AIDS in Africa.

But even there, one can question spending U.S. funds to deal with an epidemic afflicting foreigners, especially when the epidemic is largely transmitted via behavior..personal decisions.

Our tax monies should be spent on our own, altho no one with a heart can view the tragedy occurring in Africa, and not be moved.

On Bush general foreign policy(mideast, Russia, etc), I agree with you 100%

Irony
Isn't it ironic that the newly-formed Iraqi parlaiment can reach decisions that effect the sovereignty and safety of their nation while our Own Government elites bicker, back-bite, impugn, lie, line their own pockets, misdirect blame, sell out our posterity, and generally look after themselves first, their party second, and their constituents whom they are supposed to represent a distant third, all the while claiming to be looking after the nation!


According to Act for America
"...December 2nd in the online “Insurance Journal,” and illustrates how Shariah-compliant finance is establishing a foothold in American financial and insurance markets. As we all know, AIG is the recipient of a massive government bailout (translation: our tax dollars).

...note of the shariah-compliant supervisory board. Muhammed Imran Usmani is the son and disciple of Muhammed Taki Usmani. ...

The danger of American financial institutions getting in bed with well-known advocates of jihad and terrorism should be obvious to anyone ... It was Lenin who stated “The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” ...

So as we connect the dots we see that (1) our tax dollars are being used to bail out a huge insurance conglomerate that (2) is now offering shariah-compliant insurance that (3) is under the direction of an advisory board that includes the son and disciple of one of the world’s leading advocates of Islamic terrorism. In 2009 we are going to need the help of every one of our members to start putting the brakes on this insanity. "

Why Worry?

LC
"Date: Dec 5, 2008 - 7:37 AM EST Subject: ... Hal and Apollo, please take some time off from your vitriolic postings to go out and thank a soldier, or perhaps to call the White House and thank Pres. Bush for what he has done to keep you safe since Sept. 11, 2001.Catch the Christmas Spirit."

I do thank soldiers nearly every day. Bush the torturer I will never thank for anything. His appeasement of Al Q and Osama has kept the US free from attack but allowed Al Q to be close to gaining control of nuclear Pakistan.

At least now perhaps the military can be rebuilt and the troops and veterans properly cared for.

Thank you Mr. Krauthammer
I agree with Emjayne. KEEP SHOUTING!

The entire Middle East is watching Iraq.

So many have sacrificed so much for this.

Iraq's success will do much to squelch the power of Al Qaeda and other Islamofascist groups.

Hal and Apollo, please take some time off from your vitriolic postings to go out and thank a soldier, or perhaps to call the White House and thank Pres. Bush for what he has done to keep you safe since Sept. 11, 2001.Catch the Christmas Spirit.


Apollo Speaks
Here you make more sense than Krauthammer.

Iranians already got the concessions they wanted in the SOFA, namely that Iraq government would reject the use of any of its territory as a launch site for an American attack on Iran.

Additionally, Iraq has officially declared a timeline for withdrawal of U.S. troops, again a goal of Iran.

Iran largely controls the Shia militias in the South, and is biding its time, keeping a low profile.

You are correct that Al Maliki colleague Al Hakim has close ties to Iran. His dad fronted the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq(SCIRI), formed by Iraqi exiles in Iran and with the aid of the Iranian government.

Al Sadr is more of an Iraqi nationalist, while Al Maliki's DAWA party and Al Hakim SCIRI(now ISCI..Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq)are Shia fundamentalist Islamic parties.

As is Al Sadr.

Al Sadr is more of an Iraqi nationalist who preaches fundamentalist Islam, while Al Maliki and Al Hakim, both professing allegiance to fundamentalist Islam, don't have the nationalist credentials and rapport with poor Shias of an Al Sadr.

There is no getting around the fact Iraq will be governed by Shia fundamentalists.

No one knows the extent the Iraqi government will work in unison with Iran, but obviously Iraq and Iran will be far closer..more intimate..now than when Saddam ruled Iraq.

Iran is in economic trouble due to fall in price of oil.

It may result in internal strife.

We should take this opportunity to talk with and encourage those political and other factions in Iran that want closer ties with the West, in this difficult economic environment there.

There may be an opportunity brought about thru upheaval caused by falling gas prices.

The worst thing we should do is follow what Bush did for years, which was to refuse to communicate with them.

Charles - oh no you don't
"...After all, newly sovereign Iraq is today more engaged in the fight against Arab radicalism than any country on earth, save the United States -- with which, mirabile dictu, it has now thrown in its lot..."

What Bush has created is a get out of office without Iraq blowing up strategy not "success". What have he done? He have created a fractured state ruled by mullahs who have signed a treaty with Iran and he has created an avowed enemy of Israel. Israel is weaker and more threatened than prior to the invasion and US global leadership is at a nadir. The Bush Iraq War debacle is just that and if the Obama manages to snatch some type of satisfactory conclusion that is their victory. If Iraq blows up or falls apart it is ALL on Bush and the conservatives. Nice try but no cigar

SOFA UNOPPOSED BY IRAN
If this were late January of 1972 Charles would probably be just as effusive over the Paris Peace Accords and its guarantees to defend South Vietnam from Northern aggression. Iran's fierce opposition to SOFA was relaxed when the original proposal of a 50 year mandate for US military bases in Iraq was dropped. Embracing the agreement was Tehran's stooge in chief Abdul Azziz Hakim who heads SCIRI the most pro-Iranian group in the UIA-which shows that Iran considers a SOFA a harmless piece of paper in no way thwarting their regional designs.

Keep in mind that it's Iran's policy to keep violence down in Iraq as the best way to expidite the withdrawal of US forces. Iran was behind al Sadr's ceasefire; in fact, when Sadr called on his malitia in Basra last spring to resist Iraqi security forces the Iranians put him under house arrest to shut him up.

The mullahs remain confident that God and history are on their side and that they are destined to replace the US as the nuclear armed hegemon of the region-evidence of which is a US mired in economic difficulties, president elect Obama and the Democratic cut and run defeatist Congress.




magnifique
Keep shouting, Charles!! It is great to hear a sensible voice in the wilderness.

mirabile dictu!!
Holy Cow! I can't wait to use that one, though I might get b**** slapped if I do.

Muqtada: Iranian Dentist Visit
Dear Mr. Krauthammer,

One expects that al Sadr is in Tehran to have his visage altered. Ever see him smile? Positively frightening. His teeth make him look like a werewolf. But then, besides te appearance that may frighten schoolchildren, he hides under the skirts of the other Ayatollahs, while his pedestrian followers take bullets for him. Iraq is better with him in exile. I predict the Iranians will get tired of him; his promises are like the promises of Ahmadinejad on Israel, and everyone knows that he's nothing more than a man's cheekwind, trapped in a car with the windows rolled up. Very effective, if you happen to be locked in the car with him. Otherwise? Not so much.

Thus always to tyrants.

Hard to Believe
It's hard for me to believe that the scenario K describes can actually come true.

But it was hard for me to believe that Obama would actually be elected.

As we say in the Second Step of AA: "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves would restore us to sanity."

That Power I believe is a Merciful Providence. Clearly, nowadays, Providence is at work, and I love Charles' allusion to Scripture in this essay: THE FULLNESS OF TIME.
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