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Friday, July 04, 2008
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Flips and Flops
by Charles Krauthammer
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON -- You'll notice Barack Obama is now wearing a flag pin. Again. During the primary campaign, he refused to, explaining that he'd worn one after 9/11 but then stopped because it "became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism."

So why is he back to sporting pseudo-patriotism on his chest? Need you ask? The primaries are over. While seducing the hard-core MoveOn Democrats that delivered him the caucuses -- hence, the Democratic nomination -- Obama not only disdained the pin. He disparaged it. Now that he's running in a general election against John McCain, and in dire need of the gun-and-God-clinging working-class votes he could not win against Hillary Clinton, the pin is back. His country 'tis of thee.

In last week's column, I thought I had thoroughly chronicled Obama's brazen reversals of position and abandonment of principles -- on public financing of campaigns, on NAFTA, on telecom immunity for post-9/11 wiretaps, on unconditional talks with Ahmadinejad -- as he moved to the center for the general election campaign. I misjudged him. He was just getting started.

Last week, when the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, Obama immediately declared that he agreed with the decision. This is after his campaign explicitly told the Chicago Tribune last November that he believes the D.C. gun ban is constitutional.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton explains the inexplicable by calling the November -- i.e., the primary season -- statement "inartful." Which suggests a first entry in the Obamaworld dictionary -- "Inartful: clear and straightforward, lacking the artistry that allows subsequent self-refutation and denial."

Obama's seasonally adjusted principles are beginning to pile up: NAFTA, campaign finance reform, warrantless wiretaps, flag pins, gun control. What's left?

Iraq. The reversal is coming, and soon.

Two weeks ago, I predicted that by Election Day Obama will have erased all meaningful differences with McCain on withdrawal from Iraq. I underestimated Obama's cynicism. He will make the move much sooner. He will use his upcoming Iraq trip to acknowledge the remarkable improvements on the ground and to abandon his primary season commitment to a fixed 16-month timetable for removal of all combat troops.

The shift has already begun. Thursday, he said that his "original position" on withdrawal has always been that "we've got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable." And that "when I go to Iraq ... I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies."

The flip is almost complete. All that's left to say is that the 16-month time frame remains his goal but he will, of course, take into account the situation on the ground and the recommendation of his generals in determining the ultimate pace of the withdrawal.

Done. And with that, the Obama of the primaries, the Obama with last year's most liberal voting record in the Senate, will have disappeared into the collective memory hole.

Obama's strategy is obvious. The country is in a deep malaise and eager for change. He and his party already have the advantage on economic and domestic issues. Obama, therefore, aims to clear the deck by moving rapidly to the center in those areas where he and his party are weakest, namely national security and the broader cultural issues. With these -- and most importantly his war-losing Iraq policy -- out of the way, the election will be decided on charisma and persona. In this corner: the young sleek cool hip elegant challenger. In the other corner: the old guy. No contest.

After all, that's how he beat Hillary. She originally ran as a centrist, expecting her nomination to be a mere coronation. At the first sign of serious opposition, however, she panicked and veered left. It was a fatal error. It eliminated all significant ideological and policy differences with Obama -- her desperate attempts to magnify their minuscule disagreement on health care universality became almost comical -- making the contest entirely one of personality. No contest.

As Obama assiduously obliterates all differences with McCain on national security and social issues, he remains rightly confident that Bush fatigue, the lousy economy and his own charisma -- he is easily the most dazzling political personality since John Kennedy -- will carry him to the White House.

Of course, once he gets there he will have to figure out what he really believes. The conventional liberal/populist stuff he campaigned on during the primaries? Or the reversals he is so artfully offering up now?

I have no idea. Do you? Does he?

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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Fast Eddie
Isn't that the nickname suggested by NY Times columnist David Brooks for Obama, in honor of a notoriously crooked Chicago Alderman (there's another kind?)?

McCain flip flops
Sorry, but I do not think that Obama's flip flops will get any traction. After all, McCain has the drilling issue (flip flop) association with Jerry Falwell (go from calling him an agent of intollerence to accepting a degree) Taxes (against Bush tax cut, now for it). Obama will clearly say whatever he wants to get elected -- but I am not even sure why McCain keeps flip flopping.

Throw (mama) Obama off the left train.
For someone who wanted to bring change, he has already brought change. Once he got Hillary knocked off the train, he is slowly changing his positions, more to the center. Or so they say. An article I read yesterday in the WSG was telling of his stratage to get more african-americans registered to vote. He said in the campaign if he got the nomination he could guarantee 30% increase in african-american voters. For someone who is complaining about race, it seems he can use it when ever it is to his advantage.
Can you imange the uproar from the media if McCain said he was going to get 30% more white americans registered to vote. What is the difference?

Yeah! We've got 2 floppers
When the defining issue is energy - we pick the one Republican who didn't want to go after our own oil - geez. His reversal is good if he means it - but I doubt he does. Guys like Alan Colmes aren't going to let it go.

Somebody please convince McCain to retire. Or get someone besides Bob Baar to run on the LP ticket.


Obama Flops out of the race?
Obama has been flip-flopping on everything. He needs to remember that Hillary just suspended her campaign. Those superdelegates who said they would support him have every right to change their mind between now and the national convention. If it appears he is down in the polls and can't get up, they very well could bring Hillary forward rather than lose the white house. Yes, they need to do what they should have done in the beginning- pick the most qualified person for the job.

Geeze
A man's qualifications to be president depends on if he wears a flag pin or not. Thats about as deep as his ability to govern depends if he is going to stop gay marriage. Now those are pretty hefty world shaking criteria that will change the course of the world economy. Face it OBAMA is so squeaky clean, you can't find any political scams to pin on him, like McCain's role in the Savings and Loan debacle. All you have to turn to is a pin.

Good luck selling this one to the voters

2 flopper's
Carlos you got that right.
Looked into Bob and the LP they are not much better. He has a nut endorsing him that wants to legalise drugs. That is all we need in Washington nuts smoking dope. Hard enough to get things done now.

flag pin
I find it amusing that Mr. Obama would consider wearing the flag pin "a substitute for patriotism" if anything I would think that it is more of a declaration of patriotism. The candidates are virtually dead even in the polls.

The communist BHO squeaky clean??
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Chickaree...
If you think Obama is "squeaky clean," I have a bridge to sell you...NO ONE coming out of the
Daley political machine in Chicago is clean...Obama is no exception. Let's talk Rev. Wright, Bill Ayres, that nasty priest, and, of course, our convicted felon Rezko. Enough for you? No? Let's then talk about "typical white" people like his grandma and "bitter, angry" folks who "cling to their guns and their religion." Those comments tell us about his elitism and his lack of character as much as his flip flop on campaign finance does. There are a lot of things to talk about with Obama...at least the things we know about, that is...his resume is short and he hasn't been on the national scene for long, so I'm sure more will be coming as we "get to know" Barack Obama.

obmas traitorship
how much potentially good time and energy has been spent on the stupid pin. is this one of the major factors to be considered in trying to decide who to vote for. it would tell us a hell of a lot more abot you then about obama if it were. it is a stupid, dumb, idiotic, thing to spennd that much time on when you could be talking about the wall street analysis of mcccain prpoosed budget. this right wing newspaper, the source of about 50 per cnet of right wing talk show hosts materials said in effect, that mccain ideas would be disastrous for this country., considering the source it is quite remarkable, but then i dont very ofter believe or trust most of what i read in the Journal so its hard to know what to do with this particular bit of information.

MRC...
I guess you would know about "stupid, dumb idiotic" from personal experience. Care to tell us what the Wall Street Journal says about Obama's plan to increase capital gains tax? What will that do to the economy? Oh, no answer? It will tank investments and send investors overseas...guess what, MRC, that will tank our economy. Nice throwing out meaningless made-up statistics, by the way, like "50 per cnet" of talk show hosts getting their materials from the Journal...where did you get that information? Made it up, didn't you...

Now, pay attention, Charles isn't talking about the flag pin...get it? He's talking about Obama methodically moving to the center and away from you lefties for political expediency...

Change
"Change you can believe in" just means Obama changes and we're supposed to believe he's now the real Obama. Ah, now I get it.

The flag pin as a late declaration ....
... of a sleazy scoundrel's patriotism of last refuge.

Socialist Psychopathology projecting, promulgating and practicing un-and-anti-American Mobbed-up Marxist-ideologue-like murtadd Muslim Arab-African, B Hussein bin B Hussein bin Hussayn Obambi will say and do what it takes to convince and win the votes of those other Americans who, like his loathsome and fearsome "spouse" and him, are too damned stupid to know they are being lied to and/or too damned greedy and/or envy-consumed, hate-filled, enraged and mean-spirited to care. (The votes, that is, of other "Democrats")

That much is Black and White!

Charisma?
Barack Obama will win on charisma? This guy's dumb hand-gestures and stiltedly measured words are irritating - I don't see much charisma. Obama's boring, plus now he's a flip-flopper.

Obama's life is so boring compared to McCain's life. I couldn't see Obama of all people, winning on CHARISMA. I respect Charles Krauthammer' opinion, but I'm seriously not seeing the same person that Mr Krauthammer's seeing here. Take away the principles, and Obama's just a boring, flip-flopping politician.

Pastor Wright
Pastor Jeremiah Wright's got more charisma than Obama.

I'd elect Barack Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, over Obama on simple charisma. Unfortunately, Rev Wright's a bit kooky, but HE'S someone with charisma - not B. Obama.

Obama's former Pastor's got more charisma in his pinky than in B. Obama's whole world.

"dazzling"
I am already tired of remarks about Obama's 'style & grace.' Just as I was with hearing the never-ending references to Clinton's 'political genius.' I see nothing but slease & slime & a couple of con-artists. At least JFK wasn't so drastically short of manly virtue as are these two fops.
With due respect to Mr Krauthammer, I think those employing such descriptives only do so to appear politically astute. The sad truth is that these two are not only mediocre politicians with slap-dash resumes that wouldn't qualify for an undersecretaryship, but they are both of questionable character. I don't care if they can 'dazzle' the pants off every journalist out there with their 'genius.' I smell rat & want none of either.

He shakes, he gyrates, he unduuulates
Hark the carnival Barker.

Let's pretend that the personality of Sen. Obama does induce apoplexy and dithers in the stands and that he's got the "young and hip" cornered.

What next?

This flying wedge of a run to the center has got to be credible beyond its 'let us say it and make it so.' If Sen. Obama wants to carry the 'middle' beyond rhetoric, he's got to have the qualities of sincerity that will garner and keep the middle.

I'm not in league with the notion that he's the great swayer and mover. He's unable to form a sentence without the script. He's woefully inarticulate with any concepts that require on your feet exposition and he's given to stammering when he gets flat footed.

Ask him about these reversals in sharp and direct fashion and he'll do the 'I never said that' or 'I was never there in the twenty years that was going on in the pulpit' gyration that we've seen.

The left doesn't want to win by slight of handing and capturing center field. For them it's a guarantee that come election day, they're out in the cold while their guy is inside talking to uniforms about the difference between the half-tracks and making tracks ... there won't be any dancing with the one that brung em and they feel it coming.

Someone at campaign central should have told the Senator that capturing ground requires holding it for the effort to make sense.

You can't blur the lines you drew in the sand. Sen. Obama is just wasting capital and showing his carney cloth.

They Call the Con Obama

A Parody of the song, “They Call the Wind Maria”,
from the Copyrighted Alan J. Lerner & Frederick Loewe play,
“Paint Your Wagon”


Obama, Obama, they call the Con, Obama

Away out Left they’ve got names for
Hope, Change, and Con, with drama
The Hope’s Hot Air, the Change hard Left
And they call the Con, Obama

Obama blows the words around
And sends the facts a’flyin’
Obama makes our country sound
Like half the folks are dying

Obama, Obama, they call the Con, Obama

Before I knew Obama’s name
And heard his wail and whinin’
I loved this land, and it was free
And the sun was mostly shinin’

But then one day Obama came
And promised all for near free
And now the lost, the weak and lost
ould tax their freebies from me

Obama, Obama, they call the Con, Obama

We’ve got a brand new name for Hope
And Leftist Changes likewise
He tricks the lost and all alone
With Liberal hype and tall lies

McCain’s an old and cranky man
With many faults we all see
But he’s our last best hope today
So do select him with me

Obama, Obama, they call the Con, Obama

Obama, Obama! Freedom’s Enemy!

Candidates
experience, and life story - Obama can not hold a candle to John McCain. It is just that simple. Since I want to believe the majortiy of Americans get it - I do not believe any of the polls that give Obama an edge.

may the better flip flopper win.
The American people are probably in tune with the view that we must not precipitously withdraw from Iraq IF that makes matters worse.

Given the sacrifice we've already made, they don't want us to leave in defeat and humilation.

They want us to leave an Iraq that is stable and can govern itself...but they DO want us to leave.

And they are more than fed up with an Iraq that still cannot get its act together.

There will be no more "Iraqs"...naive and halfbaked enterprises where we go about the globe sacrificing our finest and looting our treasury on democracy-building schemes on behalf of people who prefer to engage in sectarian warfare and settle old scores.

What bothers me about Obama is his mindset. He was quoted as saying other nations may not be ok with Americans driving suvs, or at what temperature Americans set their thermostats.

As if the world can dictate and veto choices Americans make.

Nor do I like his call to tax Americans in order to attack global poverty.

But given the disaster of the Bush years, McCain is struggling to overcome the handicap of being associated with the party of the current president.

McCain polls much higher than does the GOP...and it is due to his being seen as a maverick who often is at odds with his party.

On "flip flops", Americans realize all candidates engage in them. I don't think the fact a candidate flip flops on an issue will come as a shock to most Americans.

Housing policies
Interesting article from the Boston Globe on 6/27/08 regarding the mess in low income housing in Obama's district. Of course he was not aware, this is surely a distraction from the issues and it is probably racist to mention it but this is not the type of leader we need.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_ proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=1

MRCMRC, grammar & speling Prometheus...
RE: Reply # 10/obamas traitorship
"how much [...] stupid pin. is this [...] vote for. it would [...] it were. {...]

MRCMRC (formerly Robert): Leaving aside the non-sequiturs and idiocies in which you excel, O you Grobama oppression fighter, I have to inform you that the manner in which you write your pathetic phrases denotes mental opacity. It is not by chance that written sentences or phrases begin with capital letters, not with small ones as you do - this formalization was created in order to signal a new/ additional line of thought in the incoming written display/text, allowing for a clearer & more effective presentation of whatever.
My! Mea culpa! I placed you and the notion of "line of thought" and "clarity" on the same page and these are mutually exclusive notions - back to your mmuddy swamp, MRCMRC.

This guy is very
dangerous. All pols lie, it's in their DNA, clinton got away with lies for years because he was the consumate BS artist. A change in ones position due to changing circumstances is one thing, a good trait if the change benefits the country overall.
But changing like a chameleon on what should be core values is a horse of another color and this guy selects his core values by which way the wind blows.
I firmly believe this clown is a stealth candidate for the far lefties like soros who wish to bring this country to ruin.

Everything he proposes is bad for America. His tax policy will double cap gains, screw up SS worse than it is, if that's possible and he will gut our military to pay for more goodies for the recipient class instead of forcing them to go to work like the rest of us.

Everyone he has ever associated with is a radical America hater including his wife, our values are not their values, they cannot be allowed into the WH to promote more of this anti-American "culture".
His rhetoric has too many phrases like "collective good" in them to suit me, this guy is a marxist deep down and if he really is so patriotic he would have walked out of that "church" 20 years ago.

BHO and the soviets
This idiot wants to sovietize the USA. He'll say anything, do anything to accomplish this. A failed policy every where in the world is being tried here and were blithely marching to the tune. God help the USA if he gets in and god help Israel, because he will sell both of us down the river

No Wonder
So what? All of our politicians have figured out that we're no longer to be feared. Americans no longer can think or gather facts and make valid conclusions from those facts. You can tell them one thing today, the opposite tomorrow and they'll simply swallow it. . . when they're not drooling on themselves.

That's what happens when they grow up without parenting, don't have to learn in school, and no one tells them no. The mind atrophies and can't process data. There's no need for such skills when all you do is sit in front of screens all day and voting democratic.


He's Flipping Us One
Charles wrote about Omamamama's Iraq talk : "The flip is almost complete." Yes, that's because there is little to gain, but he will stay with it to some degree for other purposes. He still has a few months to go and the left is dug in solidly to -- no Iraq. But Obamamama still has many more explanations on the way. He has yet to convince the swooners how he will pay for all the change and when it will occur. Those positions must still be swung to the center.

FearGalX
"...I do not think that Obama's flip flops will get any traction"

They show that Obama is just like McCain. Wasn't he supposed to be different?

my 2 cents
bo makes jean francois look like an amateur in re flip-flops

Drudge?
Is it true that Drudge is becoming a dot com for Obamamama? In his 7:15 edition July 4, he has 5 "advertisements" for Obamamama and none for McShame. McShame got one mention but it was Obamamama's allegation that McShame's misstatement about Obamamama's flip on Iraq. Wow! What an election.

One can hope
that Obama's bus will lose traction from all of the people and stands he's trown under it. What else can he or will he throw there?

Indeed, the candidate of change and hope: change his stand and hope no one notices.

Wither Obama (after he is elected)
"Way back in 1958, an electrifying political leader siezed the playing field, overthrew a dictator and galvanized all of us young, impressionable college students. Yes, Fidel Castro fooled us. He was the great liberator of the downtrodden, and six weeks later declared he was a Communist. A famous book at the time was "You can trust a communist" whose thesis was Communists became what they had to to seize power. Castro fooled me in 1958. Obama won't fool me in 2008."

So, who is this guy?
"Of course, once he gets there he will have to figure out what he really believes. The conventional liberal/populist stuff he campaigned on during the primaries? Or the reversals he is so artfully offering up now?

I have no idea. Do you? Does he?"

Two different "Democrat strategists" were on FNC shows last night explaining that BO has to change his positions to get elected. So, you see, it's OK; just politics! I was waiting (in vain it turns out) for one of the interviewers to ask, "Which positions, old or new, are those of the real Obama?" Shouldn't we know? they are, after all, quite different.

Like Chas, I am wondering/fearing who the real BO is. I have to believe that what he has done--sided and voted consistently with the ultra left all his adult life--reflects the actual BO, but marketing can be powerful and the "voters" seem easily fooled.

sigh....

robin
yes i know do you rally want to take me to task for the 50 percentr figurs?? i mean it is an exact statistic, taken after 14 years of analysis , ststistical and otherwise. they took every single radio and television,station divided them into two groupd, a test group and a control. station in the country amd almost all of them in the world and had people hired at around 723 an hour to monitoer them every hour iof every day. rather than trust the airwaves the results wer shipped by personal carrier usually in diplomato=ic pouches with at least 4 peoplefrom each station taking off from each, everyone dressed identically with with only one carrying the actual reasults,. this to confuse the enemy even after all this they still lost about 12.34523 per cent or so we think because the actual fugures are closely held secrets. . the enemy by the way is thught to be silly people who refuse to acknowledge the possiblilty that 50 per cent can be an exact figure or a reprsentative one meaning anything from some to a lot in any ananlysis.ther are rumors that Cia and fbi operatives were involved in the handling of th material when it reached the US a definite breach if the charter for the Cia. but in this case the info was so important it was felt thatthe fbi couldnntdo the job. 50 per cent of the people who read this thread agreed with it while a moajority did not

pb
I am with you. I have had about enough of the 'style and grace' foolishness. Who decided that B. Hussein had these attributes? It was the liberal fascist news media and a bunch of moon-eyed, stupid college students. I see an expensive empty suit with a pocked face and big ears who stutters and stammers during every extemporaneous speech and who has never accomplished a thing in his life except to marry a shrew. This guy is nothing more than an example of the failed policy of affirmative action as evidenced by the fact that he does not know how many states are in the union. To vote for anyone on the basis of 'style and grace' exhibits extreme ignorance and to perceive 'style and grace' when it does not exist exhibits brain death.

B.O. CHANGE
A racist, phony and a liar is what he is. This is 'CHANGE'.

Obama - a brief description
An empty suit with a silver tongue.

Challenging Patriotism
I believe it was Monday when Obama vowed to never challenge any one's patriotism in this campaign. Then last night, Levin played a clip of Obama calling GWB tax cuts Unpatriotic. Levin didn't even mention the patriotism comment, he focused on the taxing.

It's taken 4 days for Obama to flip on a campaign "vow."

So now we revert to the apologists using the Clintonian era rhetoric, "they all do that - they're politicians."

I'm feel like choking the next person that tells me that.

George Bush has backtracked on almost nothing. He's stood his ground on virtually every issue, and he's been crucified. Let's get it straight. The correct rhetoric is, "Obama's a Democrat - they all lie."

Craphammer lies...
Now that the right wing press has been exposed as wrong - again (remember when Obama was the naive cute fellow with the funny name and the great speaking voice) - they're turning inward: even as Obama floats to the center, the Craphammers don't consider that nuance, or repositioning or even, God forbid, allowing a position to evolve - now Obama is a flip flopper. But that's wrong as well:

Here's a quote from Obama regarding the DC gun ban from early this year:
""We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions."
Here's what he said the day the ban was overturned:
"always believed that the 2nd Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms, but I also identify with the need for crime-ravaged communities to save their children from the violence that plagues our streets through common-sense, effective safety measures."

Here's Obama on Iraq withdrawal in 2007:
"What my plan calls for would continue to involve U.S. troops protecting a U.S. embassy and U.S. personnel there. We would continue to have U.S. troops who are able to strike at terrorist targets inside Iraq, although the troops themselves and the strike forces might not have to be deployed inside Iraq."
Here's what he said yesterday:
"I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed. "

Here's what he said on FISA:
"This was not an easy call for me. I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn't have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about President Bush's abuse of executive power."

So it's not that Obama flip flops - it's that lazy writers like Craphammer never bothered to do the leg work...

Flipping on abortion too
Now that he's coming under scrutiny for his previous position on supporting partial birth abortion, he has come out saying he wouldn't include the mental health of the mother as a reason for allowing a partial birth abortion

Obama's a liar. He not only supports partial birth abortion without restriction; he worked hard to defeat the Born Alive Infants Act while a Senator in Illinois. That's right folks - this guy would let a baby who had survived a botched abortion die on the table without medical care!

This better come out in the debate with McCain (if we even have one). I want to hear him lie his way out of it.

Flipping on abortion too
Now that he's coming under scrutiny for his previous position on supporting partial birth abortion, he has come out saying he wouldn't include the mental health of the mother as a reason for allowing a partial birth abortion

Obama's a liar. He not only supports partial birth abortion without restriction; he worked hard to defeat the Born Alive Infants Act while a Senator in Illinois. That's right folks - this guy would let a baby who had survived a botched abortion die on the table without medical care!

This better come out in the debate with McCain (if we even have one). I want to hear him lie his way out of it.

What he really believes?
Whatever george soros tells the democrat party to tell him to believe!

What's this stuff about him being "dazzling?"
If "dazzling" means "an accomplished, deceitful, racist liar" then I guess he's dazzling.

Why is it that a certain segment of the American population are so easily fooled by these con-artist politicians? It seems to me that each successive democrat nominee, is more and more "phony" - and so obviously so!
Surely the majority learned their lesson when they fell for the "dazzling" clinton?

MCRMCR or is it mrcmrc


PLEASE use a spell checker before you post.

Numerous errors detract from any post and yours is almost unreadable.

From my blog:
Barry's a flipper, clipper. Man, he is frightning!
No one believes he's smarter than he?
And with Obama, pulling our nation asunder
Soon he will plunder-from you and me!

Everyone loves that guy that we see
Ever so blind and gullible we
Flips he will do whenever we're near
But who will laugh come next year?

Barry's a flipper, clipper. Man, he is frightning!
No one believes he's smarter than he?
And with Obama, aiming our taxes to plunder
Soon we'll go under, asunder we'll be.

Quotes from Obama:

2004: Barack Obama Voted Against "Letting People Use A Self-Defense Argument If Charged With Violating Local Handgun Bans." "[Obama] opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation." (Ryan Keith "Obama Record In State Legislature Offers Possible Ammunition For Critics," The Associated Press, 1/17/07)

NOVEMBER 2007: The Chicago Tribune Reports That The Obama Campaign Says Barack Obama "Believes The D.C. Handgun Law Is Constitutional." "[T]he campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he '...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.'" (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)

FEBRUARY 2008: During An Interview, Barack Obama Acknowledged His Support For The D.C. Gun Ban. Questioner Leon Harris: "One other issue that's of great importance here in the district as well is gun control. You said in Idaho recently -- I'm quoting here -- 'I have no intention of taking away folks' guns,' but you support the D.C. handgun ban." Obama: "Right." (Leon Harris and Sen. Barack Obama, Forum Sponsored By ABC And Politico.Com, Washington, DC, 2/12/08)

Decide for yourself.

Charles
The question is how long can he hide his real agenda? IMHO, the best outcome would be to learn he really IS just a democrat.

We can survive a Dem in office (so vote for McCain)...A bona fide Marxist? Peacenik? NAH.

Who's he gonna have for his cabinet? Code Pink-o? Al Gore? John Edwards? HillyBob? Wes Clark? John Kerry? Or maybe he'll just import some 'advisors' from the UN...after all, they'll owe us once he institutes that TAX to eliminate Poverty world-wide that he wants to institute! B.O. for the world.

(I think i'll puke now)

Re: Flip Flopping?
I only wish that the American people, some of which would buy ocean front property in Arizona,
will see this as a red flag and know that this Mr. Obamma is truely not White House material!
Bob

The 4th: another day of suffering
Well, here it is, the Fourth of July again, that day every year that we have to suffer the most liberal/Leftist claims that the ultimate act of patriotism is treason.

Padded says:
" Barry's a flipper, clipper. Man, he is frightning!
No one believes he's smarter than he?
And with Obama, pulling our nation asunder
Soon he will plunder-from you and me!"

Poor lame John McCain - went to 'Nam and lost his brain, singed a paper through his pain, admitting to his war crimes stain.
John McCain - ain't he great? The McCain of 2000 would despise the one of Two Thousand eight.
He's running to the base they say - he'll be himself another day, right and right and right he goes, but does he mean it?
No one knows!

Poor poor John McCain will say anything to win this game - and if that means 100 years of war - what the heck, he'll be dead long before! And so will you and so will I - so only our kids and their kids will die!


This is the man...
...Who has taught Constitutional Law. What country's Constitution did he teach about?

Flips and Flops
Interesting thread of comments on this string. Flip-flopper label unlikely to have traction in the populace. GOP used it effectively and with merit on Kerry. Dems primed and does not fit Obama nearly as well as "Fast Eddie". Brooks and Charles K. typically brilliant in their insights (best 2 columnists working today-great insight-no pedantry-no demagoguery). Obama is the most charismatic since Kennedy but that is the whole package. No substance. No accomplishment. No experience. No bi-partisan accomplishment. Liberal voting record. American public generally poorly informed (esp poor depth of knowledge and long term political recall) and as such very vulnerable to 1.)manipulation by media and campaigns and 2.) feel good candidates like BO. McCain is older candidate and risks becoming Bob Dole 2. Great guy. Great sacrifice for country. Long record of accomplishment and working in bi-part way but in the end an unexciting and losing candidate. GOP needs 1.)to hammer on substance and 2.) to encourage McCain to pick running mate likely to have great grass roots appeal. Obvious choice from my perspective is Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell. Hard right needs to realize if they persist in their pouting ways that we are going to have Obama elected, see taxes significantly raise and war on terrorism significantly weaken. Obama's shift to the center has begun and it will be interesting to see whether the voting populace even takes note.

"Change"
Change: A "liar" you can believe in.

High entertainment-MoveOn Hollywood!
I don't know what's more entertaining:
Obama having a followup news conference 10 minutes after the previous one to reverse his position...or his supporters grasping for straws to rationalize it!

There has to be a better term than flip-flopping though. This is more akin to squirming, or thrashing ineptly about. Is the puppet off his strings and feeling his oats?

Hollywood and HuffPo must be dismayed. He's thumbing his nose at them bigtime.
I reckon the soros' and ayers' types who put him where he is are sanguine and know it's what he must do to get elected. But as Dr. K points out, the 64k question is after that, what will he do?

MDoggggg...
You owe Mrs. Paddy an apology. Why, because she doesn't want a Marxist/Socialist as President of the United States, does that make her a racist? ("Just admit it Paddy - you can't stand ni$$ers" - MDoggggg)
Libs are very good at projection. You really don't like "ni$$ers," do you, Doggy, so you think that everyone who is not a "ni$$ers" doesn't like "ni$$ers." You and your ilk will continue to make this election about race, but it is about ideology: Capitalism or Marxism. You won't say that in public because you'd be ridden out of town on a rail after being tarred and feathered, but its what you want: Do what ever you want, consequences be damned because the Nanny State will take care of me, thanks to the forced "contributions" by your fellow "komrades."

It doesn't matter...
...if Obama has already demonstrated he is manipulative, duplicitous, and fundamentally dishonest. Legions of people now bow to him as their new messiah, and they aren't about to let small things like the truth and solid beliefs get in their way.

Vote Obama in oh-8, and life on the porch will be so much easier! The Master has promised!

Go to Accuracy in the Media
and read about the communist sites now openly endorsing Obama and declaring that Obama has made it known he is open to a new day of leftist politics. Read about his father surrogate Frank Davis, the admitted communist.
Read about Drudge's refusal to run an ad regarding Obama's connections to Davis saying it was too controversial. Write Druge urging him to stop covering up for Obama.

FeargalIX
McCain is changing positions because conditions have changed like the high price of oil and the challenges to the economy.

This isn't the first flip flop!!!
At star flopped. By using his race, he went against everything Martin King, Jr. stood for. "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character". But what do the democrats say, Obama is best qualified because he's "black". Wh at ever happened to qualifications?!? Not every black person is marching lock step with the obamanation.

Not a good Strategy for Conservatives
Flip Flopper may have been a good strategy to use against Kerry in 04. But I would caution conservatives about trotting out this one this time. After all look at McCain on everything from immigration to tax cuts his views are different than only a few years ago. He has even suggested recently that he opposes legislation that he sponsored?

I suspect that Obama has always been a moderate and on the really big issues he has remained consistent. On the other hand who knows who the real John McCain is? What does he really think about social conservatives? What would he really do about immigration? Which John McCain would occupy the oval office? About the only issue where I believe you are seeing the real John McCain and that is on the war in Iraq. He would likely continue the policies of the Bush Administration.

Obama on the other hand would be more inclinded to seek a carefull withdrawal strategy. Obama also would be more inclinded to really listen to commanders on the ground rather than GWB who only listened to the ones who agreed with him and fired the rest.

Obama would represent real change, McCain more of the same. It all boils down to what the public wants.


The latest change
Obama is running to the right, he must, he won't get elected otherwise. I find it remarkable how hard left marxists like Obama and Clinton have to run on the appearance of conservative values in order to get elected.

Obama is disingenuous and dishonest to the core. His positions are simply based on which way the political wind is blowing at the moment.

I think the description of black supremacist, hard left marxist, and intellectual dilletante, in others words how he was first described, are the most accurate description of Obama.

No win
I should think that conservatives would applaud Obama for supporting FISA or the Second Amendment decision. But no. What would posters be saying if he opposed them?

So no matter what he says or does you hate him anyway.

Questions
I have two questions for you libs (and try to actually answer the questions without changing the subject to McCain or Bush):

1) What has Obama ever accomplished in goverment? I assume that since you believe he will bring hope and change that he has done so in the past - he must have an amazing record.

2) What exactly is Obama's position on Iraq (since it appears that his judgement on Iraq is his sole qualification from many of his ardent defenders)? Specifically, what will he do once in office?

A question for all the New John...
Birch Society folks who post on TH:

You dismiss Obama as a Marxist-Socialist, but you really make no distinction between Obama and other Democrats such as Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, do you?

Supporters of McCain are hardly in a position to attack Obama either for flip-flopping or guilty associations.

Lame as it is to cast a black man raised from the age of 2 by a single mother as a wine-drinking, country-club elitist, that's still probably your best bet.

New parody
my blog! Getting to Know Them....

Links with Inspiration - Worth Checking

Apologies to all, but this is essentially a duplicate from what I posted on one other another TownHall board this morning. I just thought that on this 4th of July a little simple reflection would be timely.

I had checked the news to see if there were any major stories and saw that someone had found an original manuscript for “My Country ‘tis of Thee”. I then decided to check out the full lyrics (been too long since I had gone through them) and so I went to Google to see what I could find. Found a simple but profound site. This first link would require the least amount of bandwidth in case anyone is limited to dialup:

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh697.sht

I then continued on my search and found these other links. You would need high speed Internet to view these YouTube sites unless you start to load them and walk away until they fully load. Later you can then click replay. In the past I have found that this can work.

Another link for “My Country ‘tis of Thee”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y-bynBLc6U

Also two links for “Amazing Grace” if anyone is interested: (They are quite good, and the second is not what you would expect [Cherokee].)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V84STSWVp3g&feature=related

The one that shows there are no boundaries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYIjFtPQEk&feature=related

My best to all.

Yes we can, No you can't
Barely after the zombie like chants of "yes we can yes we can yes we can" faded, Mr. Obama was already telling America what we can't do:

*Can't drive our SUVs

*Can't eat whatever we want

*Can't keep our homes at seventy-something degrees

This seems like a fundamental flip flop from his most basic campaign slogan.

So Mr. OBlahBlah, if we can't do these things, that express our modernity, our indidvidual freedoms, and the blessings of our great way of life, then what is the zombie-like chanting about?

Yes we can? - practice homosexual marriage?

Yes we can? - commit abortion and infantacide?

Yes we can? - rob from the rich, fritter away most of it on a useless bureaucracy, another large portion to scammers, and give a pittance to the poor?

Yes we can? - pass laws that silence the opponents of the activist Left?

Mr. OBlahBlah fails to tell you what "we" can do, but somehow I think he is not including conservatives in the term "we."

So much for "bringing the nation together."

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

One more
Since Obama is a great uniter - this one should be easy:

3) Name any instance where Obama has united anyone - not just people who agree with him.

Even we are drinking the kool-aid
Of "getting things done". Damnit, the "Government" is NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THINGS. It's supposed to leave us alone, so WE can do things.

Wake up, people, we can't use their words in conversation - when we do, they define the discussion, and they win.

NO MORE LAWS! NO MORE RULES! Let's SHRED some of the 100,000,000 pages of federal laws. All we need is the Constitution. It's short, maybe Congress should read it some day!

readyk
Very NICE Parody! I hope you'll stop by my blog for more of the art-form. click my name. Thanks!

Perry White asks:
"You dismiss Obama as a Marxist-Socialist, but you really make no distinction between Obama and other Democrats such as Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, do you?"
*************************************************

Well, for starters, I don't recall any of those Presidents advocating the killing of newborn infants.

In an Obama Nation, women can choose to kill their newborns, out of fear that preventing the practice will endanger the precious Roe V Wade crock.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

MRCMRC vs. English, Obama vs. McCain
MRCMRC can write English when he wants to. He posts crummy posts all over Townhall.com, for his own reasons. Maybe he gets some psychic benefit out of looking illiterate.

Obama is proving his OddAssity as many have noted above. Don't worry about him -- we know what to do on election day.

He'll lose 56 out of the 57 states in the union.

Obama Flipping and Flopping
No, I certainly don't know what Obama stands for or believes. And from his performances to date, I am positive Obama doesn't know what he believes. When he is reading from prepared scripts, even though it may be a flip-flop speech, it seems to be coherent. When he is answering a question with no prepared script, he stumbles all over himself. It is obvious that he has no inner core beliefs. If elected, he would be one that watches the polls, and whatever direction they indicate, that's the direction he would head. As for the flag pin, he might as well just give it up. That action alone, is the most unconscionable act he made. He lost all credibility with me to even just listen to him when he refused to put his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance. He is not an "American". His beliefs come from the church and the pastor he has now "sort of" renounced. How can the people who are supporting him, some presumably intelligent people, be so stupid and gullible? Obama doesn't know what he is doing, and neither do the people who are supporting him. I'm not fond of McCain either, but at least he is an American and I'm pretty sure he is not going to sell America down the river of some other foreign country. Obama will have America floating down the Amazon river in a heartbeat.

Here you go, Roopsag...
A link noting Obama's accomplishments so you can attack its credibility and the facts it asserts.

http://www.obama08-wa.com/files/experience.pdf

Obama on Iraq: It's an unholy mess from which withdrawal will be difficult, but that will be the aim: Careful withdrawal, thereby putting Iraqi's on notice they will be responsible for whatever becomes of their own country.

Now a question for you: What has John McCain accomplished in government that you're particularly proud of?

Norm
Which McCain do you like. The 2000 McCain, The 2004 McCain or the 2008 McCain.

For the record: McCain opposed the Jim Webb extensions to the GI bill for vets. This was the position of the White House as well. That was until it was gonna pass anywhy with bipartisan support. 58 co-sponsors in the Senate but not McCain. In the end McCain supported the bill. He was for it after he was against it in the span of two weeks? But no one called him on it. I bet you didn't even notice. Thats because stuff like that never gets reported on townhall or on Fox News.


Poor Mountain Rose...
"Well, for starters, I don't recall any of those Presidents advocating the killing of newborn infants. In an Obama Nation, women can choose to kill their newborns, out of fear that preventing the practice will endanger the precious Roe V Wade crock."

PW: Arguing with a hysterical zealot is a fools errand.

So I'll just note there are at least a few pro-choice Republicans. Are they Marxists, too?


Obama
Racist, (Obama).

mrkrmark
McCain could not tell the difference between Sunni and Shia in Iraq and he claims to be an expert on foreign policy. Scary. Obama is a true American success story. Of course his is a patriot. Calling people unamerican is a throw back to the 1950 McCarthy Era. Scary.

Big Daddy
Kind of you to come to my defense. Thank you.

I never would have seen the insult as I always scroll by Doggg's posts. Sort of like stepping over the dog droppings when I am out walking; I watch for it, step past, and move on, leaving the smell behind. It doesn't require scruitiny to see it for what it is.

People, Grow Up!
We're infighting ourselves to death - literally!

Quit arguing about McCain, PLEASE! Do you freaking want OBAMA? Let's focus on helping the McCampaign get it's act together - it needs help. We need help. Unless you're a total loser, welfare-style, OBAMA is a DISASTER.

Focus! It's important!

NO COMPARISON JOHNS FLIPS ARE WISE!
SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT. A FLIP FLOP IS REQUIRED IF THE SITUATION CHANGES AND CALLS FOR FLEXIBLITY/REVERSAL, SUCH AS DRILLING. NOW THAT WE PAY ALOT MORE FOR GAS ETC., MCCAIN IS DOING THE RIGHT THING. HOWEVER, TO FLIP FOR POLITICAL GAIN/VOTES AND NOT HOW ONE TRULY BELIEVES IS DISHONEST AND A DISSERVICE TO AMERICA! A WISEMAN
CHANGES HIS MIND FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, A FOOL CHANGES FOR HIS OWN SELFISH PURPOSE!

Mountain Rose
The majority of Americans are pro-choice. I repect your right to a prolife position but you also have to accept the yours is the minority position on this issue nationally. Obama has said that he would like to work to limit the number of abortions by encouraging better family planning, educating young people, etc.

That is the way to both retain a women's right to choose and at the same time reduce the number of abortions performed. What is your position on Sex Education and Family Planning?

I am prochoice and would like to see fewer abortions. You are prolife and I assume want to see fewer abortions so how are we do different?


Cynicism as analysis
If you begin with the premise that all politics is cynical calculation, then any position change will be to deceive the voters.

The left looks at McCain's numerous flip flops and writes the Krauthammer piece on McCain.

Where does all this "analysis" (pseudo-journalism) get us? Both sides read pieces that make them feel right and good and rightous--but there is very little added to our understanding. Debater points.

Mr. Krauthammer, research something, make a meaningful argument---don't contribute to the horse race, then criticize politicians for partaking in it. Hyprocrisy.

JM051
I have no candidate in this race, I detest them both. One is a hard left marxist trying to appear conservative and one is a lukewarm leftist with no real direction.

The country is in trouble and I'm sick of choices between bad and much worse. I want a return to common sense and conservative values. I want a government 1/10th it's current size.

This article was clearly about Obamas positions not McCains.

Clear enough?

DISTINCTIONS

.....PERRY WHITE ...

.....FDR's administration was riddled with Communists, Whittaker Chambers to name one, ...FDR loved "Uncle Joe", agreed to recognize his Communist regime, made Russia a Super Power thanks to American Lend Lease that cost our taxpayers millions ...sold us out at Yalta and virtually ceded eastern Europe to Russia and thus sowed the seeds for the Cold War ...

.....HST ...signed on to the United Nations ...assigned American Communist Alger Hiss to write their Constitution which gave Russia absolute veto power over American foreign policy ...betrayed Chiang Kai Shek through his State Department by cutting off all aid and arms to fight against MAO ...this led to the Korean War that HST prevented McCarthur from winning by removing him from command ...

.....JFK & LBJ ....sabotaged IKE's plan to liberate Cuba ...brought us to the brink of a nuclear war ...sent ground troops to Vietnam against the advice of the generals and finally betrayed the South Vietnamese by cutting off aid and arms the same way we did in China ...

.....I don't know if Obama can top this but he is a Marxist and the latest in a long line of Democrat appeasers and enablers of Communism .....COLOSSUS

Round And Round He Goes
Where he stops,no one knows.

The Democrat Party is made up of 'factions'. Each 'faction'has a different constituency. When the shepherd is talking in cadence to one part of his herd,he says one thing.

When he goes to another part of his herd,they need to hear something different. Now,the entire herd is not smart enough to put his spiel together and know that he is just pandering to them.

Most of them really don't give one whit about what he is saying,anyway. They just know he is their'second coming'.

They hoot and holler and clap like a group of trained seals after every sentence that emanates from the lips of their haloed one.

Thoughts come to mind of Fidel,Adolph,Chavez and others who could mesmerize the crowds. I never thought I would see it in our own country.


Mountain Rose
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. It seems like the manta of the modern conservative movement is that you can have it all and someone else can pay for it.

Yes, we can is a call to make American a better nation and part of that is shared sacrifice. But in Bush land the most patriotic thing you can do is shop. Honoring the troops is about waving a flag on July 4th, but when it come to taking care of our troops who are after all the little people conservatives never really cared about it is nothing for them. Sending them in with inadequate armour, stop loss, multiple rotations with less time at home, Walter Reed, and oppostion to the Webb GI bill enhancements.

Thats what you get when you have people running the country who are more concerned about wall street than main street.

That is the unpretty truth about modern conservatism and why the Republican brand is in the toliet.

Yes, we can. Be safe, plan for our future, reduce taxes on the people who work for a living, provide health care for every American, reach energy independence, and reduce the number of abortions without taking us back to the days when women were faced with the choice of having their baby or going for a basement abortion because thats what you will have again if Roe is overturned. (that is except for the rich who will find doctors to do them illegally)

GWB approval rating is the lowest since they started recordng. A McCain administration would likely be an extension of the failed policies of GWB. Is that what you want.

JMO51

.....You are wrong ...the majority are against abortion personally but support it for others in the cases of rape, incest or medical emergency ...

Subject: LIFE AT CONCEPTION

.....Those who believe that abortion is infanticide and State sanctioned genocide, there is a way to overturn Roe vs Wade through legislation ...

.....With Congressman Duncan Hunter's (R-CA) Life at Conception Act (H.R.618) reaching a new record of 107 co-sponsors the National Pro-Life Alliance (NPLA) will be shifting emphasis to build support for the Senate version of the Bill introduced by Senator Wicker (R-MS) ..

.....If this Bill became law then it would overturn Roe because a fetus would have Constitutional protection at conception and most scientists agree that life begins at conception ...

.....This law, if enacted, would end abortion on demand and shut down the gruesome abortion mill industry ... for more info go to http://www.prolifealliance.com .....COLOSSUS

A question for baseballdoc...
Do you think Joe McCarthy got a raw deal?

Norm
I can respect the consistency of your position, though I don't agree with your assessment of either candidate.

As to your final comment, you won't see a column on Townhall about McCain flip flops.

Are you planning to support Bob Barr or will you stay home on election day?

Much to do about nothing
As so often happens on these threads - any discussion about Obama's faults brings a hoard of leftist trolls out of the woodwork using their usual tactics of subject-changing and diversion.

The simple fact of the matter is this:

Barack H. Obama is unelectable - and the Dem party leaders know it.

It may be 2008, but there are still enough bigots in the U.S. - on BOTH sides of the aisle - who wouldn't vote for Obama even if he were running unopposed.

The best hope for the Dems to win the White House in '08, is for some gigantic Obama scandal to emerge between now and their convention - so that they are forced to dump him and nominate Hillary.

Baseballdoc
You are wrong most Americans support a women's right to choose. No only in cases of rape or incest. Most Americans would like to see fewer abortions and would not choose to have an Abortion for themselves. Support to keep Roe V. Wade is high although most people are OK with limits on late term abortions.

What we need is to come together with the objective or reducing the number of abortions and at the same time retaining a women's right to make that choice.

The Pro says:
"It doesn't matter...
...if Obama has already demonstrated he is manipulative, duplicitous, and fundamentally dishonest"

Bbbbut you all said he was naive and inexperienced and a ddddreamer...

That would either make you fools and him a great actor -

or you're just fools....

Obama's early education
Those who think Obama's 20 years in the church pastored by Rev. Wright shaped his belief and policies have failed to see that his early education shaped his ideas about society and how to live. It is imperative that people see the influence of the teaching he received in that period of his life and how his childhood pedagogy shaped his thinking. For those who want to discover the philosophy of Obama's desire for being the "commander-in-chief", find the definition of each of these words- taqiya and kithman. It will reveal why he is able to do so much "flip-flopping". He has a choice according to his early learning from the Quran. Either conceal his beliefs or seduce minds to support him by what they hear him uttering with his tongue while his heart is comfortable with his concealed beliefs. This is a challenge to all who would know the truth about what America faces in the upcoming election.

Perry White
"So I'll just note there are at least a few pro-choice Republicans. Are they Marxists, too?"
************************************************

Perhaps.

There are a lot of Trojan Horses, like Arnold SchwartzenTraitor, who pretend to be conservative.

Until after the election.

Mostly, we call them RINOs.
------------------------------------------------

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Primus54 writes...
"It may be 2008, but there are still enough bigots in the U.S. - on BOTH sides of the aisle - who wouldn't vote for Obama even if he were running unopposed."

PW: Wow, talk about projection!

Mrs. Paddy - Re: Your "Dogggg" Comments
Ha, ha, ha, ha...

That was excellent - just step over the pile and get away from the smell ASAP!

You've got this angry moron figured out to a tee.

Thanks for the laugh (and the advice)!

Cheers.

JOE MCCARTHY WAS BORKED BY THE MEDIA

.....PERRY WHITE ...

.....Yes Joe McCarthy got a raw deal ...Joe was an American Patriot whose committee tried to root out the Communists who had infiltrated our goverment and society including the media who finally turned public opinion against him and did him in ...

.....Now in typical Leftist fashion they have re-written history to make Joe out as a wild-eyed bigot who hounded innocent victims and ruined their careers ...

.....Point out, if you can, one person that Joe exposed as a communist or a sympathizer that was completely innocent .....COLOSSUS

Ex-W
I think if you took the time to really listen to Obama's vision for this country which is what leadership is all about you might find that you agree with him more than you don't.

By the way what is your view on Family Planning in General and how about Sex Education? Do you think the war in Iraq is going well or do we need a change in policy shifting our resources to the real enemy.

Do you oppose a tax cut that puts more money in the hand of people who work for a living as opposed to the trust fund bunnies who wre the major beneficiaries of the Bush Tax Cuts.

Do you favor or oppose universal health care. Most Americans want that.

Primus54
Maybe the people you hang with feel that way. Perhanps you should find some new friends.

JMO51 re: Reply # 9
Date: Jul 4, 2008 - 11:32 AM EST
"Mountain Rose
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. It seems like the manta of the modern conservative movement is that you can have it all and someone else can pay for it."
***************************************************

Hmmmmmm...

Are you trying to say that all of my money that I have earned by much toil actually belongs to the government, and if I don't want them to rob me blind and fritter my tax money away, I am making someone else (the lazy slackers) pay for "it?"

For example, I have to work today, if I plan to keep a roof over my head.

Meanwhile, my neighbor, who lives in an identical apartment to mine, has not worked in 30 years, and is getting all kinds of government aid because she has a back ache.

Well, I have a back ache too, but the government is taking from me and giving to her.

The Lefties fantasize that they are playing Robin Hood, when they are actually the Sheriff of Nottingham, robbing me of my hard earned money at the point of a sword.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Flip-Flop-Flap
The reason most politicians seem to flip-flop on issues is sometimes their viewpoints honestly change. But mostly I believe it is so they can get elected. It is the result of advisors telling the candidates what to say in order to get elected. This is not cynicism, this is reality. Too many are easily duped. Politicians know that you need to be told what you want to hear, not what you need to hear.

I often hear the mantra of "sacrifice" or "shared sacrifice" it is a smokescreen on how those in government can better control the American people.

The mantra should not be "sacrifice". It should be "SUCCESS !". People act as though we are in dire times. We are not. There have been and will always be difficult times. The American people are spoiled beyond belief. If you think there is a better place then move there. In the meantime, adapt as Americans always have and continue to work to make your own little part of the world better. Things will get better because we will make it better.

At the close of the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was asked whether we have a republic or a monarchy. His response was, "A Republic, if you can keep it."

The best mirror you will ever have is the face of a friend. If you want to know who a candidate is look at their past, not what they say to get elected. Those who say "John McCain flip-flops too"! We already know. That is why many of us have a problem with him.

Barack Obama is not about change. His recent "refinements" are the usual political tactics that were predicted many months ago. He has the nomination. He cannot get elected based on the core beliefs that the Democrat Party has been espousing over the last twenty plus years. His advisors know it. That is why he is singing a different tune.

Tibby



JM051
First, who I will or will not vote for is entirely my business.

Second, disagree with my assessment, that's your right. I find my assessment in line with other conservatives. This is a conservative forum I expect to discuss conservative issues. True conservatives find a majority McCain's positions unappealing at best.

Third, I don't need a column from any online source to tell me that McCain's positions have changed. I can see that for myself without prompting from some columnist. What TH or other conservative sites choose to print is also their business. It is up to all of us to pay attention to what is written or not written. Many times more is gained from the absence of commentary than three pages of oft repeated garbage.

Joseph McCarthy.
I believe Joe McCarthy was telling the truth when he named names of communists in the entertainment industry. Where is another McCarthy when we need him?

Actually ,we know their names. At least some of them. The problem is we have too many people today,who either can't see or don't care that we are losing our souls as a country to the evil communist/socialist,Marxist element in the entertainment and many other places.

McCarthy may have gone a little overboard,but he was treated as a pariah,even a criminal, by so many people who should have listened to him. No genuine whistle blower today could have withstood the abuse he took and survive.

Chronic Stupidity!
Its a shame to see a fine writer like Krauthammer wasting his time pointing out the obvious. The electorate are stupid enough to buy the 'Conservative Democrat' label every time and dont understand that its a lie. Those morons who voted out their long-time Rep Congressmen in Mississippi and Louisiana voted in two guys who will support Pelosi and Murtha at every turn. The macacas who were stupid enough to vote for Jim 'Melonhead'Webb in VA were saying YES! to that sniveling Uriah Heep of a Harry Reid. Thought Bush's prescription drug program was too big a giveaway-- vote for Obama and watch the pharmaceutical companies be nationalized. Think Bush was too friendly to private medicine? Obama will draft your doctor and seize the hospital he works in. If you take one word that crosses the forked tongue of this left-wing snake seriously you are a complete fool. He's a doctrinaire leftist and their religion is POWER!

Baseballdoc
Joe McCarthy was a lieing opportunist. His own biography was an invention. His staff was corrupt and not above using scare tactics for personal gains. Not a pretty picture.

If there is any myth about the era is that he was the only one. He was just the symbol of the worst excesses of the era. Of course, there also were quite a few real communists in places that they should not have been. But as you know that continued well beyond the era. (Walker Spie case).



JMO51
Thanks for the unsolicited advice, but I'm very comfortable with my friends - which include people of all political stripes, colors and economic backgrounds.

If you don't think I speak of reality - perhaps you need to get out more and do more listening and less talking.

JMO51 - YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN

.....Abortion will never be rare as long as Abortion Mills like Planned Parenthood exist ...there is too much money to be made ...

.....Even Bill Clinton said that his intent was to make abortion safe, legal and rare ...then he vetoed the partial birth abortion ban ...

.....Obama goes on step beyond that and approves of infanticide ...you are a Lefty which makes you either a liar or a fool ...

.....The Abortion Industry is no different than the slaughter houses that butcher hogs and steers ...the only difference is that we don't eat the aborted babies .....COLOSSUS

PS JMO51
"provide health care for every American, reach energy independence, and reduce the number of abortions without taking us back to the days when women were faced with the choice of having their baby or going for a basement abortion because thats what you will have again if Roe is overturned."
***********************************************

So?!!!

If a woman killed her husband in the basement, and accidently stabbed herself in the process, we would still consider her a murderer.

If these little skanks want to cat around, get pregnant, and then kill their own child, why should I feel sorry for them?

It seems that you were brainwashed by propaganda films like "Town Without Pity."

Time we have compassion for the innocent and judgement for the hoes and murderers.

JMO51 Pt 2
Since you are open to giving advice - I assume you are just as open in receiving it, as well?

FYI in your response to Baseballdoc:

- "Lieing" is spelled "Lying"
- "Spie" is spelled "Spy"

Glad I could help. I'm sure you wouldn't want anybody to think you're "unedjumacated".

Hussein Obama
This bozo is the most shallow candidate for the office of President that I have ever seen. He is a total fraud, and fails utterly the George Washington test for the office. His election would be an Obamanaton!

JMO51
"GWB approval rating is the lowest since they started recordng."
*************************************************

But no where nearly as low as the rock bottom ratings of Nancy P. Lousy's House of Reps.

How apt, considering the bottom dwellers they are.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Better if Obama really has no principles
I am glad to see Obama waffling. He's going to win anyway. At least there's some sign that perhaps he really has no principles of his own - so that, in trying to stay popular in a Center-Right Country, which we are, he'll govern as Clinton - sticking his finger in the air to see which way the wind is going, instead of as the hard-core socialist which his record seems to indicate.

An unprincipled, trend-following Democrat is not much worse than McCain anyway.

Depressing.

Norm
Now I almost totally agree with you.

The only exception is the assumption that all conservatives share the same views about the size of government or its role. There are big government conservatives on the one side and libertarians on the other.

There is no evidence that when conservative come into power that they shrink the size of government. They certainly make different choices than liberals. Under Reagan the Federal Government grew and the same happened under both Bushes.



Primus54
I use all the brains I have and all I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson.

Thanks for the spelling lesson.

Cheeze
"Hussein Obaba...is a total fraud, and fails utterly the George Washington test for the office."
**************************************************

He doesn't even pass the smell test and the laugh test.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

JMO51 - YOU ARE A COMMIE TROLL

.....I am going to take the advice of the person who said ..."do not argue with a fool because a bystander will not be able to tell the difference" ...

.....So before I begin to lose IQ points by having a dialogue with you I am going to exit and have some barbeque to celebrate this great country that you and your minions are trying to destroy ...

.....I wish you defeat and humiliation in your endeavors .....COLOSSUS

JMO51 - you're right
Yes, under Republican administrations, there's been a poor track record of Legislative achievements in reducing the scope of Government's intrusion in our lives.

The reason is that even when Republicans have majorities, they are thwarted by people like John McCain !!! The New York Times LOVES to praise how mature and enlightened these 'moderate' Republicans are, and the 'moderates' bask in their warm adulation, while sticking it in the nose of their Republican colleagues.

Rest assured that if McCain is elected, he will want to "get things done". And with Democrat majorities, he'll "get things done" by adopting whatever parts of the Democrat agenda he is comfortable with. All the while luxuriating in the warm, comfortable bath of the mainstream media's praise for his 'non-partisanship'.

We're really up the creek in this election either way it goes.

skep41 says...
"Obama will draft your doctor and seize the hospital he works in. If you take one word that crosses the forked tongue of this left-wing snake seriously you are a complete fool. He's a doctrinaire leftist and their religion is POWER!"

PW: Can you hear yourself?

Do you really believe these extremist things you say or are you just having a bad life?

What's your plan for people who can't afford health insurance? Scrape 'em off?

Mountain Rose
The number of people who identify themselves has Republican has been significantly decreasing since 2004. The number of Dems have stayed steady. The ranks of the independents have been increasing. At this point more independent's favor Obama over McCain.

The Republican Conservative brand is in the toliet.

Murph
"...he'll govern as Clinton - sticking his finger in the air to see which way the wind is going, instead of as the hard-core socialist which his record seems to indicate."
***************************************************

I suspect that George Soros is Obama's "Massah," and if you wonder what happens to Lefties that cross the Massah Soros, just take a look at what he and the Trolls at Move On Dot Orcs did to Leiberman and Shrillary.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Change..Change...Hope...Hope
I hope Obama takes his "change" and goes home. But tomorrow is another day and another issue to "change" position on. One can only "hope."

PARTING SHOT

.....JMO51 ...May you spend eternity in a fetid pool with boils and carbuncles in every orifice .....COLOSSUS

Obama's Early Education
Barak Hussein Obama's early education is very important, it was in Muslim Schools and mosque's. Why is it now that the only family he points to is his white grandmother and grandfather. He stated he would give the Palestinian complaints more attention.
I do not care what color he is but I do care about his values if any, all I have seen is constant changes in his words to fit the day.
He said he would consult with the military before running from Iraq, but he left his choice open by saying "ultimately it is his decision". True but good sound advice should be listened to and used.


Wake up to the true Obama reality!
Slick Willie, the smooth talking snake oil sales
man, is Obama of course. The two faced Presiden-cial wannabe has two mind thinks. Win by hook or crook! He has Hooked the leftist on his will END Iraqi war promise, which is up for grabs. Now he becomes the Crook who deviously uses the vast Monies extracted, under false pretense, to BUY into the White House and his fickle gift of gab "words" are used to delude the smitten and naive even more. Help save us John, from the scary, illusionist Obama!!

Mountain Rose
There is evidence already that Obama will dump unhelpful baggage as soon as it suits him, as he's done with Wright, and a few advisors who made the mistake of speaking the truth to the press here and there.

Obama does not have the character of a true leader. He's just a typical, if oratorically gifted, politician.

Once in power, to remain popular he'll bend with the wind. Clinton learned that the hard way after two years of pushing issues like the BTO Tax, gays in the Military, and Socialized healthcare.

Dumping the unsavory people who got you there has a long tradition going all the way back to Chester A. Arthur, who came up as a New York machine-pol and dumped his cronies as soon as it was expedient to do so.

Soros will not have as much sway as he expects.

It's still scary. But if Obama sticks with the crazies who launched him, he'll be such a failure in governing that he'd be unlikely even to win nomination again in 2012.

Perry White
"What's your plan for people who can't afford health insurance? Scrape 'em off?"
*****************************************************

I vote for YOU to pay for their health insurance.

In fact, I vote for you to pay for MY health insurance.

After the Lefties made everyone else pick up the tab on the health care for AIDs patients, even though AIDs if 100% preventable, the cost of healthcare has gone through the roof.

If we make gays pay for their own healthcare, the cost of health insurance would drop dramatically.

If we stop illegal aliens from using the emergancy rooms as a free doctor's office, the cost of insurance would plummet.

Why don't all the illegals go back home and make the corrupt Mexican government pay for their health care?

Did you know that the Mexicans are planning to stop Americans from driving across the border to fill up their tanks? It seems that the Mexican government subsidizes the price of gasoline. They are willing to have their descamisados suck out of our public trough, but are unwilling to return the favor.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Obomber
If Obama gets elected we will have a change alright.The starspangle banner will no longer exist it will be the black version.When foreign dignitaries come to America they will be treated to chitlins and watermellon with Rev. Wright and the priest saying God Damn American grace.Ludicrous will be the entertainment( Obamas favorite)and there will be no shaking of hands only fist bumps and kissing Michelle feet.

Flip-flopping not issue
Flip-flopping is not the issue. What is critical is whether any position, new or old, is beneficial for the country. For example, McCain's change in favor of drilling for gas and oil here is an example of changing one's mind to best serve the country.

Baseballdoc
I come from a military family. My father and grandfather were officers in the US navy. I have one son who is serving in the National Guard and another who is in the coast guard. I am a retired naval officer. I love my country.

I respect your right to disagree with me, but I would never question your patriotism as you do mine.


JMO51 replies:
" I use all the brains I have and all I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson."
-----

Very good for you, JMO51.

I see you ARE capable of accepting help.

One last bit of advice, then.

Start borrowing from conservative brains.

You'll be happier, healthier & wiser.

Cheers!

Mountain Rose writes...
"Did you know that the Mexicans are planning to stop Americans from driving across the border to fill up their tanks?"

PW: Did you know that driving to and from the Mexican border burns a lot of gas?

Murph
"...But if Obama sticks with the crazies who launched him, he'll be such a failure in governing that he'd be unlikely even to win nomination again in 2012."
************************************************

Yes, but there is also the threat of Bill Ayers, the mad bomber.

If Ayers didn't hesitate to bomb the Pentagon, what would he stop at?

If Mr. Obama crosses the wackos that helped him to power, he might find more than a horse's head in bed with him.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Obama
It is simple, Obama is a Chameleon, Changes spots day to day, hour to hour....which ever way the wind blows.

Perry White
"PW: Did you know that driving to and from the Mexican border burns a lot of gas?"
**************************************************

Apparently not for the people who live near the border. It appears they are lining up in droves.

Gasoline is almost $5.00 a gallon for high test in California.

Obama in denial, along with his voters!
Obama has to be exhausted, playing so many roles, positions and imitating all the great leaders, Kennedy, Reagon, Martin King etc,. I'm afraid, he will never be at a lost for his Adopted vote winning copied speech patterns. Perhaps when he acts spontaneously or uses his OWN ideas, unscripted, will he be exposed for the emptysuit and delusive mind think he posesses. Be careful what you wish for! Amen.

Perry White - Ennnnnt!
"Mountain Rose...It's not so much your love for the little unborn fetuses as your animosity toward women whose sexual lives you can't control."
*************************************************

Ennnnt!

Wrong again Bozo breath!

You are seeing my outrage at people getting away with murder... literally.

An unborn human is a living human being.

Human? Take its DNA.

Living? If it has brainwaves and a heartbeat it is alive.

Anyone who doubts the humanity of these tiny children should check out the scientific photographs by Lennart Nilsson:

http://www.lennartnilsson.com/home.html#

http://www.lennartnilsson.com/child_is_born.html

Perhaps before you advocate the execution of these vulnerable beings, you should take a look at these photos, taken inside the womb.

I bet you are too chicken to look at these beautiful images, because it just might give you realize that you are wrong.

Kinda like closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears and shouting "lalalalalala! I can't hear you," to prevent a major truth from sinking in.

If you refuse to look, you are like the heartless slime that bulldozes a house without first looking to see if a homeless person is sleeping inside.

OBAMA NATION = ABOMONATION

Gotta Work
*Bye*

America

I had hoped that maybe one person would have checked the inspirational links that I found this morning and had mentioned at 10:45 a.m., but apparrently not. This is a shame, because they were uplifting.

I don't understand how some of you can keep up this banter that you know is going nowhere and will not persuade the person whom you are swapping insults with.

Both sies are beating their heads against a brick wall. Granted, the conservative posters are much less driven by hate and more by frustration, but why do you engage those who only want to insult you?

Wish some of you would check those links. Nothing huge in one sense, but simply uplifting.

He shakes, he gyrates, he unduuulates

Hark the carnival Barker.

Let's pretend that the personality of Sen. Obama does induce apoplexy and dithers in the stands and that he's got the "young and hip" cornered.

What next?

This flying wedge of a run to the center has got to be credible beyond its 'let us say it and make it so.' If Sen. Obama wants to carry the 'middle' beyond rhetoric, he's got to have the qualities of sincerity that will garner and keep the middle.

I'm not in league with the notion that he's the great swayer and mover. He's unable to form a sentence without the script. He's woefully inarticulate with any concepts that require on your feet exposition and he's given to stammering when he gets flat footed.

Ask him about these reversals in sharp and direct fashion and he'll do the 'I never said that' or 'I was never there in the twenty years that was going on in the pulpit' gyration that we've seen.

The left doesn't want to win by slight of handing and capturing center field. For them it's a guarantee that come election day, they're out in the cold while their guy is inside talking to uniforms about the difference between the half-tracks and making tracks ... there won't be any dancing with the one that brung em and they feel it coming.

Someone at campaign central should have told the Senator that capturing ground requires holding it for the effort to make sense.

You can't blur the lines you drew in the sand. Sen. Obama is just wasting capital and showing his carney cloth.

letter to the Editor, Los Angeles Times

Here is my letter to the Editor printed in the Los Angeles Times yesterday. What do you think of it?

===========
I am sick and tired of campaign promises. I want a president who has the maturity to look at the factors involved in any situation and make the proper decision.

If you tell me, "I am going to dive into that swimming pool," but you later find it has no water and choose not to jump, do I call you a liar -- or do I think you are smart for making a proper decision for the circumstances?

Same thing for campaign promises. Just convince me that you are an intelligent person who will make the right decisions at the right time.



reconsidering is not flip-flopping
I think a good president should reconsider his position when presented with new facts. That's leadership. It's the left that brands thoughtful reconsideration as "flip-flopping". They are the ones that will stand on idealism even if the world burns down around them. The right uses principles to guide decisions. The left uses rigid positions to guide their principles. So Obama moves to the center at his own risk.

I for one don't believe a word of it anyway. If he wins he'll lurch hard left, and everything he says now will be clearly lies.

Jurassic John
Show me a McCain postion I will show you a Flip-Flop.

Torture=Flip-Flop

Bush Tax Cuts=Flip-Flop

Campaign Finance=Flip-Flop US court made him re-enter public financing after using it as collateral for a bank loan. PS he continues to illegally to use his wife's private for events without paying

Martin Luther King holiday=Flip-Flop

need I go on.




Robert's "Confession"
Robert, the self-proclaimed "Reagan conservative", and supposed minor GOP "player", admits he voted for Al Gore and John Kerry.

And we are supposed to believe he really supports John McCain?

Looks like old "Robert of 1,000 Names" has taken a page out of the Koran.

It's okay to tell a lie of the tongue as long as your heart remains pure.

MDoggggg
"The truth will set you free" was stolen from the Bible, a book that certainly wouldn't support most of the liberal agenda. In fact, most leftists have no interest in the Bible nor belief in any god. I've yet to figure out where they get off quoting from it or saying "omigod!" whenever they're moved. It's repulsive.

Leftists do not believe in genuine truth--only in truthiness, which is relative. It's much like nailing jello to the wall.

I like the Flip-flopper

You flip-flop complainers, read my letter at 1:13 PM EST.

Name me one person who is not smart enough to change his mind many, many times, and I'll show you a person who is stuck in the mud.

Each time the "mind" is changed, we learn something new about that person. And by looking at what subject was changed, how often, and why, tells us a lot about the person and the type of advisors he hires.

I want a person smart enough to change his mind when new information or new facts arrive.

Even to change his mind to win the election. After all, if he doesn't win, all his goodies are for naught.



The Master Flip-Floper.
Sorry Mr. Webster. We have a new dictinary in a new master flip-floper: Barak Hussein Obama.

Primus54
I think that conservatives have some valid points to make. As a student back in day, I found that I identified more moderate and conservatives on fiscal issues. On social issues.

I have always leaned a little more to the left. I was in favor of welfare reform, I am pro-defense spending and a big supporter of NASA.

I think all income types of income should be taxed at the same rate and I am not opposed to having a tax system that is progressive.

I believe the the current Republican Party is too concerned about corporate interests and I would like to see less corporate welfare.

My heros in politics are moderates in both parties. The real threat is from the people who attacked us on 911 and beleive it was a mistake to go into Iraq. I must admit that I supported the war in the beginning but my views have evolved.


osthod writes...
"...the Bible, a book that certainly wouldn't support most of the liberal agenda. In fact, most leftists have no interest in the Bible nor belief in any god."

PW: The Bible's mostly silent on the abortion issue. And the Old Testament is anything but a "culture of life" book.

So exactly how is the Bible in conflict with "the liberal agenda"?

Looks to me like liberals will be in far better stead in Christian heaven for actually helping the poor instead of berating them for failing to become successful entrepreneurs.

After all, remember what Jesus said: "Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!"

Obama flips
Obama flip flops because he doesn't know WHAT to stand for. He has never "stood" for anything except "gettin' his".

This is NOT Obummer's candidacy- it is George Soros'. Time to pull the mask off.

Why Obama will likely win
The fate of the election rests with moderate swing voters. The Republican Party used to be a Center Right Party, but moderates have been kicked out of the party and so it has become a Far Right Party, Dems are a center left party and continue to be that way. Since the center is the key, Obama will win.


baseballdoc writes...
".....Yes Joe McCarthy got a raw deal ...Joe was an American Patriot whose committee tried to root out the Communists who had infiltrated our goverment and society including the media who finally turned public opinion against him and did him in."

PW: Thought so.