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Friday, June 20, 2008
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Critical Thinking on Energy
by Charles Krauthammer
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WASHINGTON -- Gas is $4 a gallon. Oil is $135 a barrel and rising. We import two-thirds of our oil, sending hundreds of billions of dollars to the likes of Russia, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. And yet we voluntarily prohibit ourselves from even exploring huge domestic reserves of petroleum and natural gas.

At a time when U.S. crude oil production has fallen 40 percent in the last 25 years, 75 billion barrels of oil have been declared off-limits, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That would be enough to replace every barrel of non-North American imports (oil trade with Canada and Mexico is a net economic and national security plus) for 22 years.

That's nearly a quarter-century of energy independence. The situation is absurd. To which John McCain is responding with a partial fix: Lift the federal ban on Outer Continental Shelf drilling, where a fifth of the off-limits stuff lies.

This is a change for McCain, but circumstances have changed. When the moratorium was imposed in 1982, gasoline was $1.20 and oil was $30 a barrel. Since the moratorium was instituted, we've had two wars in the Middle East, and in between a decade of garrisoning troops in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE to preserve the peace and keep untold oil riches out of the hands of the most malevolent of our enemies.

Technological conditions have changed as well. We now are able to drill with far more precision and environmental care than a quarter-century ago. We have thousands of rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, yet not even hurricanes Katrina and Rita resulted in spills of any significance.

McCain's problem is that he's only able to go halfway on energy production because he has locked himself into opposition to the other obvious source of domestic oil -- the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

His fastidiousness on this is inexplicable. "I believe that ANWR is a pristine area," he explains. Is it more pristine than the ocean, where he now wants to drill? More pristine than the Arabian Desert from which we daily beg the Saudi princes to pump more oil?

The entire Arctic refuge is one-third the size of the United Kingdom (which includes Scotland and Wales). The drilling site would be one-seventh the size of Manhattan Island. The footprint is tiny. Moreover, forbidding drilling there does not prevent despoliation. It merely exports it. The crude oil we're not getting from the Arctic we import instead from places like the Niger Delta, where millions live and where the resulting pollution and oil spillages poison the lives of many of the world's most wretchedly poor.

Our environmental imperialism does not just redistribute pollution to people who can least afford it. It generally increases the total overall damage because oil extraction in the wealthier and more technologically advanced U.S. is far more environmentally sensitive.

McCain's unwillingness to include ANWR lacks even political logic. His policy on offshore drilling is a flip-flop from his past positions. Perfectly justified, but a reconsideration nonetheless. If you are going to take the hit for flip-flopping and for offending environmentalists, why go halfway?

The oil crisis handed McCain an unexpected and singularly effective campaign issue. A majority of Americans now favor drilling in the Arctic and offshore. Democrats stand in the way of increased production just as they did 13 years ago when President Clinton vetoed drilling in ANWR. Domestic oil production would be about 20 percent higher today if the Republican Congress had been allowed to prevail.

As expected and right on cue, Barack Obama reflexively attacked McCain. "His decision to completely change his position" to one that would please the oil industry is "the same Washington politics that has prevented us from achieving energy independence for decades." One can only marvel at Obama's audacity in characterizing McCain's proposal to change our policy as "old politics," while the candidate of "change" adheres rigidly to the no-drilling status quo.

McCain is a lot of things, but the man who opposed ethanol in Iowa -- as Obama shamelessly endorsed the most abysmally stupid of our energy policies -- is no patsy of the energy producers. Americans know that increased production is needed to complement reduced consumption as the only way to get us out from oil shocks, high prices and national security blackmail.

Alas, McCain's proposed reform is only partial. Still better than Obama, however, who refuses to deviate from liberal orthodoxy. But that is the story of his campaign, is it not?

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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Dumb and Dumbo
How sad is it that we have a choice between dumb and dumber?

Or Stupid and monumentally Stupid.

Or Blind and Dangerously Blind....

You all get the drift. Sad really.

I want to know how maintaining ANWR as Pristine is sensible, when, as Charles points out, not drilling there only exports the problem to those places that can ill afford the impact of the business.

NIMBY is the most hypocritical and elitist attitude environmentalists have.

We are SO screwed, this election year. John McCain....grow a set, will you?

NO FOOD FOR OIL


good article
I have disagreed with Charles in the past, but here he is on the money.

Comparing Obama and McCain on energy policy is like having a 100 watt lightbulb, with McCain lighting the bulb at 50 watts, and Obama lighting it at 1 watt.

Obama is clueless, not even in the right galaxy.

McCain needs to straighten up, advocate drilling in anwr, and change his position to that of not allowing an individual state to vote whether to allow drilling off its coast.

It is a national energy policy, a national interest here, and an individual state must not be able to thwart the energy needs of the entire Republic.

Clear, Precise and Logical Thinking
John McCain needs to have Charles Krauthammer as an adviser to his campaign. If McCain would follow through with even half of what Krauthammer has analyzed and proposed, he would be ahead, not behind, his naive opponent.

Not the issue
"...the Niger Delta, where millions live and where the resulting pollution and oil spillages poison the lives of many of the world's most wretchedly poor."

Environmentalists are not liberals but Leftists instead. Leftism is a loser economically, and they know it, so the only option they have is to hurt America. The fact that their policies hurt "many of the world's most wretchedly poor" in the process is of little concern.

folks....
Every industrial country in the world figured out in 1973 that becoming addicted to driving smaller cars was the way to go. Time to buck-up America and get addicted to smaller cars!

Who here, thinks that with oil at $130 a barrel we are sticking it to Iran?

Zell said it Best!
John McCain is just being "John McCain" on this issue, he has a hair up his butt for ANWR and he dosn't care if everyone else says, "the sky is blue", if he thinks it's pink he'll stick to pink!

I read a post yesterday from a guy in Alaska who was livid they can't drill in ANWR; according to him they would drill tomorrow if the choice was left up to Alaskans.

My favorate Democrat, Zell Miller, sumed it up when asked why he supported drilling in ANWR, Zell said, "I've been there, it takes a bush pilot and a dog sled to get there! Nobody is taking the kids on vacation to ANWR anytime soon!" Or words to that effect, the exact quote is in his book; suggested reading for all good Democrats.

Rational Thinking
I have taken to adding this caveat to every post regardign oil and energy. No other politically significant topic is more amenable to rational analysis and data based decisions than energy. Chuck's advocacy of rational thinking is a really good thing, even if his actual critical thinking leaves something to be desired.

First off, he indicates that drilling in currently off limits sites would provide 22 years of energy independence. But he neglects to mention a critical component. Americans may see all, some, or none of that oil. It will not be OUR oil: it will be oil comapny oil. And if China is willing to pay more for it, China will get it. The point here is that this is as much a market structure and demand issue as a supply issue.

But let's suppose the most happy of outcomes for Americans. Let's say we get all that oil and we get our energy independence for the next 22 years. What then? In 22 years we have NO internal capacity.

It makes just as much critical sense to retain our oil for as long as we possibly can.

Or, we could follow the most rational path. We could have an energy policy based on COnservation, Exploration, and Invention while we develop new sources of power. The fact that Chuck expresses energy policy in a partisan context indicates he might not be as critically acute as he thinks he is.

Zell Miller
More of a Republican than John McCain!

zapdoodat
What if every industrialized country allotted 400 square feet of living space per inhabitant, would that mean we should follow suit?

Or dictated the thermostat in each home be set at 80 degrees(sound familiar...Obama was advocating just that)?

No disrespect, but I don't much care what the choices and predilections of other nations are.

What makes our nation so unique are our endless highways, our individual choices(such as what vehicles we drive, our neverending horizons and landscapes.....the fact the Europeans and some others have limited themselves to such small geographic areas with such dense populations ain't our problem.

Nobody
seems to trust that Americans will work on alternate fuels etc, unless the cost is prohibitive, or they push punitive environmental controls. It's nonsense.

I think we could have a good energy policy. If it was structured like JFK's mandate to put a man on the moon within 10 years...and it was done, we could certainly do a similar thing with our energy dependence.

I agree it shouldn't be either/or...but 22 years of respite would help.

More oil on the market will lower prices...no matter where the oil is shipped. Specious argument to make that just because we drill the big bad oil companies will go for the profit.

My question: Why should they NOT go for profit? They ARE a business. Get Real.

Zapdoodat
"Every industrial country in the world figured out in 1973 that becoming addicted to driving smaller cars was the way to go."

Have you ever been to Europe? The majority of thier cars are full size Audi, BMW, and Mercedes sedans. Volvo and Saab do not feature sub-compacts. The biggest reason the tiny Fiats, Opels, and Fords do well over there is taxes (about 65 different VAT taxes). People buy tiny cars in Europe and Asia not out of choice. They hate them.

The ideal place to drill
If environmental conservation hadn't turned into a religion for so many leftists, they might realize that ANWR is absolutely the best place in the United States to drill for oil. The population of humans and animals is extremely low. The environmental impact of drilling would be almost non-existent because there is nothing to impact.
I also agree that offshore drilling should be permitted wholesale and not be as a decision of the individual states. The United States extends out to sea; individual states end 100 yards past the shallow end of the beach.

Critical Thinking on Energy
Everything you say is true, however since our $'s are worth NOTHING how much are these terrorist centers actually getting?

Amen, Charles!
I got some dopey statement from Sen. Lieberman about migratory birds and truck pollution to get to ANWAR...give me a break Joe, I'm trying to feed and shelter my family. My paycheck is going in my gas tank.

Small Cars in Europe
Two things; Look at comparative gas prices...it is easy to find on the internet...they are all paying double (at least) what we are paying per gal.

Also, a smaller car is easier to park and manoever on narrow streets.

Having traveled on the Autobahn, however, don't be fooled. There are lots of big, fast, expensive cars in Europe.

The GOOD thing is the drivers there are courteous and don't putz along in the fast lane, and passing on the right is pretty rare (except for England of course!)

You see a Merc or Audi in your rear view and you'd best get out of the way!

common Sense & Reason is Dead !

Common Sense and Reason is Dead !
What I find sad but interesting is : {IF} this drilling 'problem ' had to do with Congressman names on Building , Subsidized Housing Loans ,Roads to no where , Woodstock Statues , Welfare Social Bills attached to it today .
OBOMA >The Tree Huggers in Congress and their Twin Thinking Media would say ""WE NEED TO START DRILLING RIGHT THIS MINUTE AND THE HELL WITH REGULATIONS !!!!!!
Earth too all Tree Huggers > When a poor , middle class Family or Small Business , Haulers ,Farmers , Air Lines goes to get gas at $ 75-80-90-120 a fill up and the food and home energy prices have gone though the roof .... WE CAN'T AFFORD IT !
Don't tell America your for the Poor and Middle Class and Small Business's anymore .
Your falling on Death ears and Voters HOPEFULLY

Oil
ANWR has very few people in it. How many people ever go to visit "this pristine area." I have nothing against polar bears, but their survival really has nothing to do with human survival. It is just a play and a ploy to evoke an emotional response. Those little polar bears are cute, but polar bears are wild animals and one would eat a human if he or she got hungry enough.
It seems to pipeline enhanced the survival of the caribous rather than leading to their extinction.
Not drilling for our own oil is stupid-not as stupid as mandating ethanol, but in the same ball park of stupid.
Donald W. Bales

Abiotic oil NOT fossil fuel mythology
"critical thinking" indeed. Embrace the science of abiotic oil theory or cling to 18th century fossil fuel mythology. It's that simple. The Russians are the worlds LARGEST producer of crude today according to the IEA. They pumped more crude in 1q08 than the Saudis. They pioneered abiotic oil theory in the 1950's and are laughing all the way to the bank with our money. The US could be a net EXPORTER of oil in 10 years IF abiotic theory became the scientific theory of the land. Fossil fuel theory is an absurdity and flies in the face of several scientific disciplines including thermodynamics. BUT, we have a Peak Oil Harvard MBA investment banker in Matt Simmons advising our President. Embracing abiotic oil theory would drop the price of crude IMMEDIATELY. Watch how fast the oil starts flowing when the American people realize it's a RENEWABLE resource. Critical thinking indeed. Nukes,solar,wind,geothermal, all great for generating electricity. The vast amount of crude we consume is used for transportation. corn Ethanol is a failure. Both refining tar sands and shale use a FRACTION of the water and it doesn't starve people in under developed countries. But, the Enviros and their bot politicians are more concerned with saving the polar bear than a few million starving human beings.

Evil Big Oil, selling overseas
Are the people who fear our oil being sold overseas the same people who decry our balance of payments?

Imagine if we were selling billions of dollars worth of oil to China--or anyone else. Even better for the balance of payments than exporting our corn, I think.

Drill at home right now
The Democrats seem to feel that we don't need to drill for more oil - - that there's no problem and that we just have to 'live' with the consequences of oil prices that are destroying our economy and way of life.

Nancy Pelosi says: "We cannot drill our
way to energy independence." Now a rational person would understand that yes we can drill our way to energy independence by using our own land to drill.... I guess the strategy here is if they say it long enough, the public will believe it. When they point to the idea that it will take time - - maybe years to reap the benefits, I would remind them that if we would have started doing this during the Clinton years we would be "there' by now.

I strongly believe that Americans innovation will allow us to "walk and chew gum at the same time"; regardless of what the Democratic party says. We can drill, conserve and develop new alternative energy sources all at the same time.

McCain NEEDS to embrace this idea -- he is skating on thing ice with the Republican base he so desperately needs. The environmental crazies won't vote for him anyway. It's no time to be mediocre in his stand on this issue - - ANWR should be brought into this today.



Again
Why are we paying for a Dept. of Energy?

Thirty years of billion dollar budgets has gotten us what?

Where is the politician with the courage to demand that it be dismantled?


As for pristine ANWAR, who cares? Months of darkness followed by a brief thaw whose main feature is a storm of mosquitos. As noted above, nobody goes there; it might as well be on the moon for all the impact it has on average lives.

His nuke proposal even more profound
Imagine the shockwaves inside Saudi and Venezuela when electric cars start rolling off the assembly lines by the thousands. Handled properly, the speculators would go down the tubes right along with the price of oil, which will once again start to resemble its true value as the House of Saud tries to deflect more manufacturing of electric autos.

But why put the building of 50 new nuclear power plants on a thirty year schedule? Let's get the show on the road. Let's create thousands of jobs by kicking the timetable up to fifteen years. And with the cooperation of the auto industry,we could start oil prices on their inevitable downward spiral much sooner.

THere's your blockbuster economic platform, McLame

sorry about my double posts.
some would say one post from me is MORE than sufficient.

must be having trouble with my connection.

apparently I am not the only one. So I guess it is a townhall problem.

Vast Amounts
Gas is a cheap, efficient, and a very available source of energy for the US. For this country to have such a vast amount of energy available and not use it by drilling for it and bringing it to use is ludicrous. It's another twilight zone, Alice in Wonderland through the looking glass situation that this nation has become. It's like someone dying of thirst next to a gushing and pristine spring of water and that person not being allowed to drink the water. Gas produces a tremendous amount of energy per dollar and is very low polluting and crude produces a vast number of useful items for society. It is also a tremendous revenue producing resource for a nation that is fortunate enough to possesses this natural resource. For Americans to be denied one of it's natural resources for it's own use is insanity. Most nations of the world have no oil as a natural resource and they do pay a price in money and production. The US has an unlimited amount of oil. Unfortunately we also have an unlimited amount fools that jerked this country around, all the while snickering at the dance they make us all do with their screeches.
It's time to get America back. Drill for oil and get it to the American people. If we had our oil available we wouldn't be in Iraq. We wouldn't be indebted to the ME Islamic countries and Venezuala.
Drill. Drill. Drill. Drill.

Energy Policy
McCain has offered a half loaf with drilling offshore, but not in ANWR or the the oil shale regions. Obama offers nothing but higher prices and the continued national security risk that comes with dependency on the Middle East.

Yesterday, the Democrats stated they want to nationalize oil refineries. I did not think I lived in Venezuela! The Democrats are exposing a socialist agenda that will destroy the economy and limit personal freedom.

We export something like $650 billion of our wealth, which is about 65% of the US trade defict, to buy oil. Much goes to hostile, non-democratic states. Some states like Iran ares using our wealth to try to kill us.

This sounds STUPID to me.

Meanwhile, we have billions of barrels of reserves and trillions of cubic feet of natural gas locked up.

The House just closed it's cafeteria because it lost $18 million. The Democrats can run a lunch room, but they want to run health care and nationalize oil refineries!

The solution for energy is multi-faceted. Drill for oil and gas. Build nuclear plants (and more than the 45 McCain wants). Develop alternative energy using a market based approach such as awarding funds for projects that after audit and peer review prove to be renewable, scalable and economically advantageous. The capital markets will fund those ventures.

It's going to take 10 years. Let's get on with it.


rational thinking
I agree. Unfortunatly, government policies have stiffled invention. Public education has dumbed down the last 2 generations, so where is invention comming from. More regulations and the push by some in congress to stiffle proffits may stop the private sector from finding solutions in this country.

It is my understanding, that our coal reserves would solve our problem, but there is not any information on if it is being considered. Again no invention on converting coal to meet our needs. Instead government subsidizes ethonal at the expense of food prices. Crazy

I Love Flip-flopping When...
the flip-flopper comes around to agreeing with my point of view. This is kinda funny isn't it: for almost 8 years, the Dems have complained that President Bush was intractable, never deviating from a stand. Now that McCain has listened to the folks and has come around to agreeing with them, he's the problem for changing his mind.

Stop the merry-go-round; I'm getting dizzy.

Energy Policy
McCain has offered a half loaf with drilling offshore, but not in ANWR or the the oil shale regions. Obama offers nothing but higher prices and the continued national security risk that comes with dependency on the Middle East.

Yesterday, the Democrats stated they want to nationalize oil refineries. I did not think I lived in Venezuela! The Democrats are exposing a socialist agenda that will destroy the economy and limit personal freedom.

We export something like $650 billion of our wealth, which is about 65% of the US trade defict, to buy oil. Much goes to hostile, non-democratic states. Some states like Iran ares using our wealth to try to kill us.

This sounds STUPID to me.

Meanwhile, we have billions of barrels of reserves and trillions of cubic feet of natural gas locked up.

The House just closed it's cafeteria because it lost $18 million. The Democrats can run a lunch room, but they want to run health care and nationalize oil refineries!

The solution for energy is multi-faceted. Drill for oil and gas. Build nuclear plants (and more than the 45 McCain wants). Develop alternative energy using a market based approach such as awarding funds for projects that after audit and peer review prove to be renewable, scalable and economically advantageous. The capital markets will fund those ventures.

It's going to take 10 years. Let's get on with it.


Flip flopping is not always a bad thing
Flip Flopping is not always a bad thing. Changing situations require changing solutions. But when you have such a late conversion both in McCain's Campaign for President and in Bushes term of office you have to wonder about the sincerity of the proposals. In the case of John McCain you have to ask who is the real McCain. The Maverick environmentalists who was a darling to independents of a Born Again Conservitive in full lock step with GWB and the Right Wing of the Republican Party.

When you pull that lever on election day which McCain will you be getting for your vote. I don't know. Does anyone know?


Very simple solution
Drill domestically, while continuing to develop alternative technology. Everyone says "but we won't see the oil for five years". So, going by that logic, in five years we will be complaining about $10/gallon gas and wishing that five years earlier we would have started drilling.
The proper legislation would be to allow drilling, along with benchmark initiatives to make the changes to our infrastructure to handle alternative energy sources. This doesn't mean creating all new gas stations. This means enhancing them to accommodate other sources of fuel.
Obama has a horrible plan: reducing usage and a policy of wealth redistribution to offset high costs. This has many problems. First off, reducing usage means that us normal folk alter our standard of living. Secondly, taxing the oil industry and redistributing profits to the less well-off is destined for failure. Unless you have ignored the history of central planners managing redistribution of wealth, there's no way you think this can work. Most of all, this will do NOTHING to decrease fuel prices. In fact, they will almost certainly spike.
Alternative energy solutions is something we must strive for in the long term, but the reality is we are still many years away from achieving it. We need the domestic oil in the meantime. Burying our economy while we wait it out would be tragic.

Free Market
The free market is the best way to deal with this.

Ethanol not stupid
Ethanol from corn might be stupid -- unless you age it in a nice barrel and get 29 dollars a quart for it. Ethanol from cellulose will be produced for less than a dollar a gallon eventually. Verenium Corp opened a million gallon a year pilot plant the other day. The production plants will produce 30 million gallons a year each and they won't use corn but biomass. Right now they are budgeting them for a sale price of 1.40 a gallon. Eventually the process will improve. This is the ideal problem for biotech. Just find the right enzyme to break cellulose into smaller starch like pieces. These enzymes already exist in the stomachs of termites and other wood eating insects.

Pelosi.
Some one tell her we can do whatever we put our minds to doing. We are Americans, and yes we can drill our way out of this mess.

We need to start and not say it will be 10 years before we see anything. Time is wasting, drill now.

Tell grandmommy, if she doesn't think we can, she needs to quit and let someone who believes do it.

Obama needs a field trip.
Most people have never seen a drilling rig working.

The site is about 100 yards by 100 yards. Technology exists, because I invented it, to actually float that rig and all of its infrastructure on peat bogs (muskeg) in the north (swamps) in the south. The same is true of the access road. It is now possible to situate a drilling rig with effectively zero ground disturbance. In a year perhaps two, there would be no way to know a rig had even been there.

If the rig was more than 100 yards in the trees, no one would ever know it was there.

Canada is the number one supplier of oil to the US. Most of that is from oil sands production in Alberta.

This technology is well proven, and safe.

The newest technology is called SAGD or Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage, oil recovery. This technology is not the massive open pit mines used previously. It too takes a relatively small footprint and is well proved. Imperial Oil (Exxon in Canada) has been using this technology for the past 25 years to improve its efficiency. At this point they recover 55,000 barrels per day from this technology.

The US could use this easily in the oil shale in the Rocky Mountain States.

But here is something most people do not know. New plays on the border states between Canada and the US show potential that could eliminate the need for the US to import oil and natural gas for centuries.

These are areas where previous geological technology simply did not allow for the existence of any hydrocarbons at all.

It is idiotic to continue the policies of belief in ‘magic’ to solve the fuel problems the US now faces. If everyone would take 30 minutes and read-up on some of the web-sites that explain the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the idea that ethanol, hydrogen, and lithium ion batteries are ever going to form more than 10% of the vehicle fuel in the US would be put to rest.

Moronpolitics
Good Morning,

The energy foot-print of cellulous ethanol is about 15 to 1. It takes 15 times as much energy to get the ethanol than it gives you back.

So you are burning more petroleum to make ethanol than you get from it.

The only alternative fuel that could work is natural gas for cars. It has many problems too. You can only get about 100 miles per tank being one of them. The complete lack of infrastructure being the other.

Best get out and drill for some oil. There is way more of it than you think.

Cheers,

Bloefeld

LOGIC IS NOT THE ANSWER

.....CHARLES ...

.....You cannot win an arguement with a fanatic by using logic ...it does not matter to them that the footprint will be tiny ...it does not matter that Anwar is a desolate wilderness and that the Caribou will not be harmed ...you have to understand where the Soylent Green Commies are coming from ...

.....They want to cut off Americas access to oil, gas, coal and Nuclear because their goal is to destroy Capitalism ....in other word they are idealogically Marxists ...

.....Marx had two enemies that he marked for destruction ...Capitalism and God (religion) ...so stop wasting your time trying to reason with people whose only goal is to destroy you and your way of life ...they are elitists who lust for power and want to rule ...they are enemies that must be defeated ...not reasoned with .....COLOSSUS

Does Congress have a hidden agenda
or have the socialist high-jacked this country, lock, stock and (oil) barrel??
The suggestions from the idiot legislators in Wash. was, first, to sue the Saudis; how brilliant! Was it not Hillary Clinton who proclaimed, "I want those profits", when referring to the oil companies. The cry then was give the citizens a little relief by lifting the 18 1/2 cent Fed. tax, then tax windfall profits ( who determins the amount considered to be windfall profits?) and now Obama says that more drilling is not a short term fix---DUH!
We have untold amounts of oil shale in Why.,No.Dakota, Montana and Colo. and the technology to extract it safe and more cost efficient than previously. Those states are eager for mining; the royalities fill the states coffers and good paying jobs are available. In Florida, some are concerned that they will have to look at an oil rig (50 miles out!)from their high rise condo and that it might make Fla. less desirabe as a tourist location. Not to worry, no one will be able to afford to take a vacation to Fla.!

BLACK GOLD

.....Posters interested in seeing what goes into the extracting of oil from an oil rig can watch a new reality series on TNT called Black Gold 9PM Central time ...

.....The drillers and roughnecks who work the rigs and the oil companies who take the financial risks to bring energy to the market earn every penny ...bloviators like Bill O'Reilly would not last one day on a drilling rig .....COLOSSUS

drilling in Alaska
So we drill in every pristine place in the US. We may indeed find a few billion gallons of oil. What then? Look how quickly we pumped the billions of barrels out of Texas and Oklahoma and left those fields dry. We had to turn to middle east oil and send them all our $$$'s. it is FOSSIL fuel and it will run out no matter what. The US population is growing at a rapid rate projection some say 1 billion by 2050. That is a big thirst for oil. We currently use 80 million barrels a day. Whatever we find won't last all that long.
So look ahead and start weaning ourselves off oil. Fuel our country with efficient solar power, battery operated vehicles, and biodiesel from algae and switch grass. We are close to having each of these. Just put that energy into a big push to finish the technology on these and start bringing them on line. That would be true energy independence. Then we can concentrate on the copper, steel and other shortages that are coming our way.

We could be a long way to energy independence in the 10 years it will take to explore,drill, build refineries and pipelines. Don't forget the Arctic is a tough place to work. Winter 40 degrees below zero will keep workers out, then summer finally arrives and the tundra is melting to muck, from global warming. That leaves only a few months they can get their HUGE machinery across the wilderness to work.


Nobody is for the Consumer
The Liberals see the profits that the oil companies are making and want a piece of it, so they propose a tax. Obviously, that only sends the money to the gov't instead of the oil companies. The consumers still pay $4/gallon at the pump.

The Republicans see the profits that the oil companies are making and want a piece of it, so they propose more drilling so them and their buddies can profit too.

For anyone that has worked in commodities and business, you would know that this is garbage. Our problems are not related to supply/demand. Check the EIA website. We have plenty of supply. The Saudis said they'll pump more than ever before.

Reports came out yesterday saying that Americans drove a BILLION miles less in April than before. Memorial day driving was down 11%. YTD, our driving is down more than 5%.

If the oil industry was consistent to the laws of supply and demand, we would see lower prices. However the oil industry is allowed to ignore all other factors and "speculate" themselves into higher prices and therefore higher profits. There's always a reason for prices to go up. Never a reason for them to go down. They can completely ignore today's market conditions and continue to charge us higher prices based on "complete speculation".

We're getting screwed and nobody cares.

Oil & Congress
Democrats ( and some Republicans ) in Congress are not concerned with any misery you or I might suffer from their energy policy. They don't pay for their own gas, electric and heating needs. You and I do. The price of gas is an abstract notion that doesn't affect the way they live. Congress likes it that way.

You see, Politicians don't fear how bad things might get - they are insulated from the pain; as is their staff, syncophants and families.
Some pundit once said, " If a Politician isn't afraid that some irate constituant might look him up and polish his teeth for him - the Politician ain't worried". That's a problem.
A bumper-crop of tar & feathering would do Congress more good than anything else in the world. Politicians, in most cases, will remain convinced they are the only people that really count, until such time as they have that notion, figuratively beaten out of them. King George discovered, back in the mid-1700s that stupid has a price. It could be that Congress needs a dose of that kind of enlightenment. There is no Constitutional authority for Congress to nationalize any privately owned business. If the Democrats attempt to do so they will be committing treason. Never let it be said that I would actively encourage unlawfull acts; but I do think that the Constitution is worth a fight, if that is what it takes.

Dwain Cleveland

Oil Shale
30 years ago I worked at Occidental Research. I spent considerable time at their oil shale properties near Rifle, CO as they developed their extractive process. They got it down then. All they needed was an increase in the price of crude to make it economical.
Now that the price of crude is up nobody is allowed to develop their properties.
There are billions and billions of barrels of oil in that region. The locals need the jobs and would welcome development. The current crop os politicians in Washington would rather sue OPEC than develop our own resources. It is beyond belief how ignorant they are!

Anti drill argument
The continues litney is drilling wont produce oil for years.... well the we darn well better get started ASAP. Sure I am for cleaner energy but lets not collapse our economy over it or we will NEVER afford the technological fixes. Nuclear can produce cheap electriciity which can be used among other things to produce hydrogen and charge up all those electric cars which can work well in city environments. It time to move on this NOW. If congress wont move lets replace them.

Solar pie in the sky
I see lots of liberals waving around "solar power" like a mantra, like it's going to save us. How much energy can we generate from solar power? To power a city the size of New York? Where are you going to put that many solar panels? Won't paneling over large sections of the American West (where it's most sunny) destroy the "pristine" environment there? We can't move the planet Earth closer to the Sun to get more light per square acre.

All these liberals and environmentalists can't seem to come up with even ONE econometric model that explains how solar power will satisfy more than a few percent of our energy needs.

Ditto for wind power. And the few times that windmills have been constructed, they ran into a storm of opposition from local residents (like TED KENNEDY) who claimed they would despoil the view, and from environmentalists like the Audubon Society who claimed that birds would be killed by the windmill blades.

Sources of energy? You just name it, and I guarantee there are hundreds of activists who will go running to the courts to block it. Not even wind power is immune from that.

We're not going to make any progress until we get some real leadership in this country to choose and MANDATE certain energy choices over the OPPOSITION of the usual liberal/environmentalist peanut gallery.

Let them squawk!

TERMITE POWER?

.....MORONPOWER ...

.....Surely you jest? ...30 million barrels a year? ...we use that in a day ...where is all this biomass going to come from and who will be in charge of the termites? ...read BLOEFELD ...

.....BLOEFELD ...Thank you for your informative posts ...I don't think using The Second Law of Thermdynamics in your arguement is helpful though ...except to engineers and scientists who can understand it ...most layman still believe in magic and perpetual motion machines as evidenced by Chicaree's posts ...

.....CHICKAREE ...Please shut up .....COLOSSUS

for BryanLee
BryanLee writes: "I spent considerable time at their oil shale properties near Rifle, CO as they developed their extractive process....
Now that the price of crude is up nobody is allowed to develop their properties."

The usual reason: Environmentalists are howling about possible environmental damage.

It's gotten to the point that activists can block virtually ANY engineering project just by shouting "No! Possible environmental damage!"

That mantra has become the "magic words" by which all engineering development can get stopped. Heck, they even tried to stop the Cassini space mission to the planet Saturn, by claiming "possible environmental damage" from the space probe's plutonium power pack.

You just name it, and I guarantee you can find environmentalists who are against it. They have become a virtual "SWAT team," traveling around the country looking for engineering projects to shut down, just to get a headline in the newspaper.

Drilling in ANWR won't matter
Same goes for drilling on the coasts. Until we get rid ourselves of the speculators, nothing will change. As long as they corner the market, they can speculate whatever they want. We can drill another million barrels a day. They'll only say, "well, India is going to use a lot of oil 20 years from now. We have to raise prices today". Doesn't matter that others speculate that we may be driving electric or semi-electric cars by then.

Alternative energies won't work if they're allowed to corner that market and speculate those futures. They'll do the same thing.

Heck, it was announced yesterday that the big oil companies will now be allowed access to Iraqi oil for the first time in almost 40 years. The price STILL went up.

We must take back our economy. This is the only industry that is allowed to ignore supply and demand.

Excellent column


McCain's as big a hypocrite as anyone on this issue. Yeah, he's now flip-flopped on offshore drilling, a totally meaningless sop and bit of eyewash for conservatives, as he knows all the states involved will block any efforts to do so, since they're all liberal states. So he can look "reasonable" on the issue without really changing one thing.

I'll be more impressed when I see him advocate drilling in ANWR. And McCain's proposal for nuke plants; I mean, c'mon! Those things won't be online until 2030 -- that's 22 YEARS from now! And that's assuming the Greenies don't stop the whole idea in its tracks with a bunch of lawsuits.

To top it off, McCain's Cap and Trade proposal is an absolute economy-killer.



We as a people are simply screwed this time around, as there's NO ONE from either party who's proposing one single thing that'll address the issue of getting more oil out of the ground and into our gas tanks.

A different suggestion
A local talk show host, Joe Paggs, asked a question the other day (ostensibly about ANWR). Why don't we go to the oil companies and take bids. THis is American oil, how much will you charge us to take it out of the ground? We want you to make a fair profit, but the oil will remain American or be sold at market rates to benefit America, not a few greedy investors.

Most government agencies take bids to keep costs down, but the oil lobby has us doing business the old way. Just like Bill Clinton, selling gold mining rights to a Canadian company for pennies an acre.

You need look no further than toll roads to see that politicians have always gotten rich by selling American resources and property. But they were so plentiful that we didn't notice. Maybe it is time for a change.

Oil shale

The Eastern slope of the Rockies has 1 - 2 TRILLION barrels of oil, the largest proven reserves in the world at this time.

Canada's development of its Athabasca oil sands has proven the technology viable and economical. Further, Shell has developed a new on-site recoveryt and processing technology which makes it even MORE of an economic winner.

That's enough oil to make us energy-independant well into the next century, and even exporters if we so desire.


Common Sense
Both McCain and Obama are so wrong on this, and mny other, issues. Why oh why can't we have a candidate like Charles Krauthammer. Someone with intelligence, common sense, and articulate enough to lay out the issues so even people in Congress should understand.

BTW RAM
You are right. Because of our restrictions, the speculators left the US and set up shop in London years ago, and now they are raping us. Unfortunately, banning speculation in the US won't change anything.

We will have to prevent US oil companies from buying oil from speculators. Not an easy task to say the least, but one worth looking into.

Abiotic Oil Theory
Abiotic Oil is a disputed theory. Drilling to prove the theory has not yet been successful. If the theory is true then the oil companies will produce that oil when it becomes available.

Russia is not producing Abiotic oil. Stalin tried but could not produce.


The view from the beach -- offshore oil

From the beach, the visible horizon is about 12 miles away. Any rigs out there 20 miles offshore are not going to be visible from the shoreline.


Now, maybe if you're some rich guy standing at the window on the top floor of your mansion, you MIGHT be able to see them if you're using a pretty powerful telescope.

You could probably get a pretty good view of all the tankers and other ships that regularly navigate the seas offshore, too.

This whole "issue" of off-shore facilities "ruining" the shoreline is just so much more bulls**t to any thinking person.

Further, ALL of us are being held financially hostage at 80 bucks a fill-up so some rich a-hole won't have the view from the top floor of his mansion "disrupted".

Excuse me if I don't shed any tears.

The Price Won't Change
Oil is globally traded and priced. Adding the “drill here, drill now” reserves to the global market won’t effect the price of oil. Unless we pass some law forbidding free market enterprise of the oil companies all this utopian talk of energy independence and national security is naive.


The “drill here, drill now” crowd is like a drunken sailor who is out of money, the banks are closed and the ATM won’t work. To think that there is money just sitting in the bank while the night is young and the poor sailor goes without a drink is enraging, No?

RAM - READ THIS SLOWLY

.....I am going to write this slowly so that you can keep up ...

.....The oil companies do not speculate ...that is done by commodities traders ...if a trader thinks the price of oil will rise in the future he will buy now at a lower price ...if he guesses wrong and the price goes down ...he loses money ...it is a crap shoot and the speculators take all the risks ...if you want to get in on the action then get a broker and trade in oil ...

.....As for complicity from the oil companies ...if a trader offers the oil company X ammount of dollars for their product ...should they say no thanks that is too much money ...buy it from me for less and we will have a deal ...does that make sense to you? ...

.....The people who are getting screwed, and they are screwing themselves, are the fools who vote for Democrats and RINOS who pass laws that prevents us from using coal, oil, gas and nuclear for our energy needs but keep susidizing alternatives that will never be able to supply more than a fraction of our needs ...these peiople believe in magic ...are you one of them? .....COLOSSUS

Nonsense, zerubbabel

Oil is traded internationally; so what?

It's called the law of supply and demand, and it works on the international scale the same way it works on the smaller scale. When you increase the supply, you commensurately lower the demand pressure on prices, and the prices fall.

Your post was positively brain-dead.

BTW, we'd always have the option

of declaring domestically-produced oil a "strategic commodity", which means it could only be sold on our domestic market. Just like radioactive materials like uranium.

I don't advocate nor support the idea. I believe in the free market. But that is an option.

BrianR on Oil Shale
I may be wrong since it has been 30 years since I worked on oil shale, but I believe that most of the reserves are located on the Western slopes of the Rockies.
This area is far less populated than the Eastern slopes.

BryanLee

I just checked, and the largest deposits (Green River Formation) are on the Eastern Slope. Here's a link to an article which has a map: http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/index.cfm

Plus, the land is primarily on federally owned land, so it's not in populated areas, I'd have to assume.


LOL, BryanLee

Being geographically-challenged, I brought up two maps on my browser, one of the Rockies and the one I linked.

Even looking at both maps, it's hard to tell whether those formations are on the Eastern or Western slopes. The deposits actually seem to straddle the Rockies.

But I guess it really doesn't matter much. There's a whole lotta shale in the Rockies.... somewhere!


Russian abiotic oil theory
The Russians saw the absurdity of 18th century fossil fuel mythology in the 1950's. They chose to embrace SCIENCE instead. In 1q08, the Russians were the worlds largest producer of oil according to the IEA. More than Saudi Arabia. The US could be a net exporter of oil in 10 years if we embrace the science as well. Get rid of Matt Simmons and start listening to scientists Mr President.

Obama's hidden agenda
True to form, Krauthammer's analysis is impeccable. It has always been indefensible to deprive Americans of our own energy resources, but it took $4.00 gas to drive the point home.

As Krauthammer explains, "McCain is a lot of things, but the man who opposed ethanol in Iowa -- as Obama shamelessly endorsed the most abysmally stupid of our energy policies -- is no patsy of the energy producers."

McCain is still wrong to seal off ANWR, but he has shown the ability to eventually do what's right. There is at least a reasonable likelihood he will open up ANWR's ten-to-twenty billion barrels of oil to our economy.

Obama, in his relentless campaign against wealth creation and free market capitalism, clings bitterly to his neo-Marxist religion on this issue. His distorted worldview virtually ensures he would never do what is best for our nation's prosperity. Of course he understands that increased supplies will bring down gas prices and give the economy a shot in the arm, but that is exactly why he is opposed to any new drilling. The environmental mumbo jumbo is just convenient cover for his underlying agenda.

Obama's most glaring weaknesses

are experience and accomplishments. It would pay the GOP to be relentless in communicating these weaknesses to the great masses of American voters who usually do not consider the election until October or November. It is not too early to start pointing out that Obama has never led anything and has accomplishments so limited as to be unworthy of being called accomplishments.

The man is simply unprepared to become POTUS.

What Would Reagan Do....

Ronald Reagan would take a broad view of the "Islamic-Terrorist-Industrial-Complex", better known as OPEC.

Thinking in terms of the Pershing II and MX missle program, Reagan would realize that a Massive "Change" would be needed to combat this evil empire.

First, Reagan would use that which he has available at his finger-tips, Oil reserves. He would sign an "open-season" law to permit drilling nation-wide, and request our allies do the same. (immediate price reduction would result before the first bit strikes earth)

Second, Reagan would devise a "Star Wars" plan to eliminate the need for OPEC oil on a Global Scale. Like the graphics used in the original Star Wars plan, the MSM would prostitute themselves with wild graphics of cars that run on the sun, water, and air.

Third, Reagan would Demand Iran and others surrender their WMD, turn over wanted terrorists, and give their people freedom.

Peace through Strength?





There more than drilling
Making gasoline from cellulose using yeast. DNA manipulation is going in the biotech world from crops resistant to pesticdes and to disease resistant fish for aquaculture. Now they are focusing on fuels using yeast

http://edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=22627

BrianR on Oil Shale
You are right. It matters little, Western, Eastern slope. What really matters is that there are trillions of barrels out there.
Since you are geographically challenged as it appears I am also, and really don't know where the Rockies begin and end, both of us know that from where we live the Rockies are East of us!

The myth of alternative energy

Our technological society was developed concurrent with and designed around the use of petroleum products, along with the supporting infrastructure. Harry Potter's not going to be able to waive some magic wand and change that.

Even if some "alternate" source IS developable, it's many years if not decades away.

And once developed, then what? Again, a magic wand won't work. There are tens of millions of cars, trucks, trains, and airplanes that run on petroleum. They're not going away, nor will they be magically replaced by vehicles that run on something else. How is this new "alternate" going to be distributed? We have tens of thousands of gas stations across this country.

To change that would be such a fundamental change that it would exceed our resources as an economy; we're talking about TRILLIONS of dollars in costs, and decades in implementation.

Further, our country is only one in a WORLD that runs on petroleum. Is the whole world going to change? Because if it doesn't, we'd be screwed. And the rest of the world is even LESS likely to make that kind of change.

This whole "alternate energy" talk is pure hokum and BS, along the lines of all the hype at the end of WW2 about "flying cars" in every garage. Fantasyland sci-fi nonsense.

Hahahahaha, BryanLee!

Perfect!

Yeah, lets use it till we phuke.......
Yes lets drill all the oil that we have NOW, so 25 years down the road, our children and many of us breathing right this minute. Will be back on the blog page and crying in our soup and blaming others.
I really am skeptical that you columnist are actually educated, and in our colleges. No cant be.
You guys all got your sheep skins via the post from some PO Box in San Felippe, Guatalaharla.
How stupis is, is how stupis does, and you guys are way ahead of the rest of us in being stupid. I mean really, what set of rules govern the ineptitude of your lodgic. We have about, it is not fact only and estimate of potential that there is, 75 billion barrels of crude on or near US Soil and in North America. And based on what exact fact, are we to believe this will last us for 22 years. Only a true fool would make such a prodiction.
Re think your lifestyles before we are nolonger a free nation, but one run from afar.
But how much do we really need to use

Baseballdoc..you're wrong
However, you would be correct if you replaced oil with any other commodity. For some reason, oil doesn't have to follow the normal rules/guidelines. They are allowed to corner the market and charge what they please.

You're right on one part though. The oil companies don't do the speculating themselves. They are in bed with the traders that illegally corner the market. However, the way they do their pricing as it relates to gas prices is purely speculative.

Think about it. The price you pay for gas today isn't directly relative to what the oil/gas companies PAID for the oil that produced the gas we use today. It takes a few months to go through the production process. However, the oil companies always price in advance, based on speculation, to protect their profits. If oil prices go up today, gas prices will go up today. Keep in mind, it didn't cost the oil companies any more money. If they're wrong and the actual price goes down,they simply keep the change. If they're right, we've already paid for it.

Again, they are the only industry that does this.

"Can't drill our way out"

That makes about as much sense as saying you can't solve your hunger by getting food out of the refrigerator.

All it does is highlight the stupidity of the person saying it.

What, RAM?

Your post is total nonsense. That's like saying all the car companies -- another very limited circle of producers -- collude on setting the prices of cars in the market.

News flash, guy: Exxon, Shell, Citgo, Oxypet, and all the others... they compete with each other for market share.

And they make far LESS per gallon than the government takes in taxes. For their minority share of the profits, they take all the financial risk: discovery, transport, refinement, distribution, research, all of it.

The government risks... nothing. It just stands there with its hand out and takes the majority of the after-cost dollars produced.


Hey BaseballDoc
I'm going to write this slowly so maybe you will explain it to me.

Here is an article in Bloomberg that says Saudi Aramco is dropping their price to certain US customers for third month in a row, ostensibly because of decreased demand.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=energ y&sid=a.QieK8yyS2w

It seems to me that perhaps Exxon/Mobil may be choosing to buy from speculators and take the markups and extra profits. Hey, some of these speculators are probably billionaires by now. Do your rose-colored glasses leave any room for back door bribes at the highest levels?

Explain this article please. SAudi Aramco drops price?

It is no coincidence that in the last year or two the price of oil has skyrocketed and that speculation in oil futures has grown from $15 billion to over $200 billion.

curious
I don't know whether it makes that big a difference whether we protect "pristine" environments over others, but it seems odd that Krauthammer doesn't seem to understand what the word means. The oil fields in the Niger Delta are clearly not pristine. There are oil fields there. Pristine doesn't just mean important or whatever it is that makes sense of his comparisons above.

Similarly, it is silly to make a big distinction between our buying oil directly from Saudi Arabia, and our buying oil from Canada meaning that other coutries buy more from Saudi Arabia. (And we he pass a law to make sure that the additional oil we got from Alaska replaced oil from Saudi Arabia rather than from Canada?)

That said, it could make sense to do some of this drilling. Although the impact of the drilling will not be for at least another decade, so it is more comparable to investment in alternate fuels than the above argument suggests.

If Florida wanted to allow oil drilling off its shores, with the risk to its tourism that would go with that, I don't see why they should not be allowed to. But my impression is that despite the Governor's reversal on the issue, the people of Florida really don't want the drilling.

Hey, BrianR
You telling me in this electronic age that fifteen companies can't get together and come up with some altruistic reason for sharing the available oil and keeping prices high?

What we need are 100 oil companies with equal access to this oil, not ten majors, controlling it as defacto partners with OPEC. THere is no competition in the oil industry, or at the gas pump. There used to be. We had gas wars. We had tons of advertising by the competitors, and they didn't make $40 billion per quarter.

When it is good to flip flop
It is sensible and right to flip flop when the facts change. What else can you do when good new information gets into your head? Change your mind, apologize if you did any harm, and move on in all humility.

It looks like McCain has learnt something. Give him credit for that, at least -- he has responded well and improved himself.

Now he is right about 20-30% of the time. That's 20-30% more often than zerObama.

Krauthammer is a treasure.


BrianR and oil shale>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Brian, I see your still pitching your oil shale stock. How much do you own now.
Why does anyone respond to this loser. He has only one agenda, buy his oil shale. And make him wealthy.
I am also an owner of Oil Shale and Nortwest Canadian OilSands shares. Nice investment and return, which will only get better as time goes on. But do I want all this drilling, OH HECK NO.
I want better economic growth, more efficient cars, better power sources, reliable renewable fuel supplies and a free strong nation.
But I fear you all will shirk your duty and bail on the US for a tank of cheap gasoline.
Our Automakers can and have built more fuel efficient cars, but will not recall the junks still running around. If it's not a commercial vehicle and gets under 18 mpg in town, Burn the damned think or junk it. Foreign or Domestic.
Yes alot of them Foreign cars do not get go mileage, why because we let them.
We the people can beat this high costs of oil, simplel by beating the nuts out there want you to drill for nothing and deplete what oil reserves we have left.

Nick and Butcher

Nick, that's like bemoaning the fact that there aren't 100 car manufacturers, either. It's senseless and irrelevant, and doesn't in any way reflect the reality of the marketplace or economic issues.


Butcher, another brain-dead post by you; no suprise.

And your "recall the cars" diatribe! That was priceless!

Who's going to pay for that? You? With your "oil sands stocks"?

Do you ever engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear?

I've seen no evidence of it.



Transit to a new energy escheme
Means for anyone not obsessed with goverment power, such as Obama and the DDD, that you get serious about it. Like we did in World War II.

Instead of government taking over:

You give incentives to inovation and research.
-you may want to bring the superconductor/supercollider out of ivernation-

You build nuclear plants, you bring back clean coal

And you drill. . .

The democrats pay lip service to "clean energy" but what they really want is to ration our "greenhouse gases emission."

Less energy, less growth.

They get wet everytime they envision the destruction of the hated capitalist economy.

What if Iraq .....ENERGY!
announced that they were cutting their prices
to america(oil)? Wouldn't that affect the market
hmmm??? competition!
Bill O'reilly made a good point we have spent 500 billion for their causes..and no reduction of the prices to america!!
Sidenote: why does iraq not dominate the media
headlines? hmmm?
At this moment there is something very quite going on over there in that area between our special forces and Britains...look out osama!
Remember Bush said a democrat will not occupy
the white house if he has anything to do with it before he leaves the whitehouse!!
There may be some real surprises coming that will wipe out the ENERGY of the donkey party?!
ELVIS

Lon
One word: fearmongering.

Remember the pitiful pictures of oil-covered birds? That's it, that's what will happen to the Florida beaches. And it doesn't matter a whit if the oil that covered those birds came from tankers bringing oil from the Middle East.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL &MISINFORMED
I can't believe how retarded the modern conservatives are. I'm a former CON myself but had to leave due to the ignorance & propaganda in the movement. Every issue goes like this; the radio hosts float an idea. If it catches on then the elected right wing parrots it for political points knowing all well that it's bull. But a vote is worth more then truth so I'll enlighten you misled believers right now since your world view is so myopic & naive.

1. There is no shortage of oil currently & no shortage anticipated for decades.
2 There has been no unanticipated spike in demand, in fact it's down in the last 6 months.
3. Bush has offered free military land for refineries and congress has issued 100's of leases to drill right now in the gulf but oil companies have declined to do either.
4. While the right wingnuts say drill drill drill the oil companies have no actual interest in doing so or they would be using the leases they already have. OIL COMPANIES SPEND MORE ON SHARE BUYBACKS THEN NEW PRODUCTION because drilling would cut into profits in an era of all time profits. They are eating the seed corn of the future for short term stock profits. This is not cool because they are trusted to provide a product that the world needs almost as much as air.
5. Oil is a national security issue. But it’s controlled by short term oriented managers & CEO's who put their own interests above the people. All you oil industry apologists are no more then yes master types in the new world.

Pt. 2
6. domestic oil is not nationalized so what difference does it make who drills? Outside of shareholders & employees of oil companies there are no beneficiaries. Although it is a shame to be giving our wealth to foreign companies that is more of an economic issue then supply demand. The land of our commonwealth is all the peoples; before we drill we should seriously consider a joint government/private company consortium to use OUR resources to benefit us. Domestic oil could be sold only to US markets for $25 a barrel and the oil companies would still make a fortune. And only sell to other countries our excess if we were to ever get there, which I doubt. Almost all other oil fields are nationalized or part of some agreement to benefit the host nation. It works quite well for the Middle East, Russia, China, etc. Why are we so hung up on policy that hurts US, the people, when we are going bankrupt as a nation? If we don’t pay down the national debt this country will collapse as did the former USSR. Our oil should be harnessed to save this country if you really love it all you flag waving CONS who advocate policy that is traitorous! To the guy who says Alaska’s residents want to drill… Of course, they all get a check. That’s a form of sharing the commonwealth, isn’t it?
7. Oil costs $2 a barrel to make, about a quarter to get a gallon of gas to market. If we're paying $4+ for something that costs .25 to make the market isn't free & someone is making a lot of money on the backs of the working class. This needs to be addressed before anything else.

Limosine Liberals
If the far left lived like they demand the rest of us to live I could have a modicum of respect for them. At least they would be consistent and I could admire their sincerity. As it is they live in mansions, and jet set and demand no disturbing images of industry in their own backyard while allowing the drilling and digging and pulling out of the ground energy resources in every back alley of poverty on earth. When Obama went to SF and stated that the "bitter" people are in the heartland of America I believe his true character was revealing itself. These people (ie Obama) are so sure of their own intellectual and moral superiority that the rest of us are just dumb yokels who need to be led by their superior wisdom. Men like Reagan, Churchill, Truman and myriad others identified with the man in the street. These messiah's in waiting (Gore,Obama,Clinton even at times) view humanity as stupid and in need of their superior insights. Wake up America and throw the bums out!

Pt. 3
8. If we did drill more it would sit in tankers waiting for a place to go because there is no shortage and we barely burn what the world produces currently. Flooding the market might lower prices for a month or two until all producers, including domestics, cut production to actual demand. This stuff takes up a lot of space, there's nowhere to store extra production so in effect there will never be 'extra' supply. This is not a TV where it can sit in a warehouse on clearance.
9. This is speculator driven, all data points directly to this, look it up I won't repeat the data here since it's all over the net. But you have to turn Hannity off & study reality, not political propaganda. CON are desperate for an issue & this is the best they have. Buts it's a phony issue when the facts are understood.
10. This is similar to the housing market where money floods into an asset and it suddenly goes up in price. Then it crashes. Problem here is that many US mom & pop pension funds are invested so we have a catch 22, fix the oil price and we torpedo pension funds. The deregulation that CON's advocate has left us all exposed to the greed & unethical behavior of those who only care about personal enrichment & profits at any cost.
11. for the drill drill drill fools, when housing went up did you say cut more trees since that should lower house prices? Because you sound just like that now... we have no shortage & yet you still think lack of drilling is the problem. Or are you smart enough to know that prices go up for reasons beyond simple raw materials?

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL PT. 4
12. Speculation needs to be dealt with first or else this will be a never ending inflation cycle of musical chairs. If we build nuclear plants the speculators will target the commodities need for that energy and do the same thing there.
13. Corn Ethanol was actually a good idea until the speculators drove up corn. They own, on paper, the rights to future corn supplies that are equal or slightly more then the entire requirements of the ethanol program. Did you CONS comprehend that? Speculators are waiting in the wings to target any government or private industry attempt to deliver reasonable cost energy to the public. They are using the markets to guaranty profits after contracts are signed so that we're all stuck with the bill and blame each other... this stupid left right debate instead of going after the real problems of unregulated markets. Thank God SSI wasn't privatized, can you imagine what that would have done to our markets? Think... reality over ideology!!!
14. Worse yet is the possibility that Sovereign wealth funds are seeing this as the new form of war against the U.S. By allowing this we are opening ourselves up to terrible economic consequences if hostile forces worth trillions are allowed to manipulate the world’s resources. This is far greater threat then nuts in caves.
15. We need real leadership because Bush is one of the worst presidents we've ever had. A real president would meet with all the leaders of the world in an economic summit to establish transparent rules and trading regulations. But that's going to be a hard sell because he's so isolated the US from talking with all peoples, even those we don't like. Some even think that's why commodities have been pumped up, world anger at Bush and the American NeoCon. This IGNORANT CON ideology that we shouldn't care what the world thinks is playing out here in real time. As Dr. Phil says, 'Hows it workin for ya?’

Truth hurts...
Charles, thank you for saying exactly what needs to be said with the data to back it up. And to Polly. Every major spill has been from tankers not pipelines. For that matter, man is the one that has control over the planet. God gave it to us. We are doing a great job of taking care of it now. We made mistakes but not we have learned. Like Mr. K said, The rigs in the Gulf took Rita AND Katrina and we never heard about their leaks, because they were minimal, cleaned up right away and no body got hurt.

Keep it up Mr. K

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL PT. 5
Unless we are going to invade every country on the face of the planet we had better elect a President who knows how to really horse trade, not just act tough in front of the world while doing literally nothing effective. But I'm not a Bush hater, I voted for him both times and fell bad for his failure, this isn't good for anyone. But we all need to see that many aspects of Conservative thought don't work as well in reality as the theory predicted. Highest deficits in history, out of control healthcare costs that are approaching the cost of the entire federal governments. as a % of GDP- health care=16%, federal Gov=19%, a war that could have been fought for pennies on the dollar if it wasn't privatized through no bid contracts, etc. Hannity, Rush, etc. is dangerous to the thinking man.
16. Taxing the oil companies… the wingnuts are so stupid once again! The left had no interest in actually collecting a tax, read the bill instead of listening to the right wing liars. As mentioned above, the oil companies spend more on share buybacks then oil investments for future production. To avoid the tax all they had to do was DRILL DRILL DRILL in the leases they currently own! If they sunk those billions & billions of profits into new drilling there would be no tax you idiots on the right! This bill was an effort to force them to produce more energy, either alternative or fossil. That’s all it would take to avoid paying any tax at all! And the bill also contained measures to deal with the speculators in the markets who buy paper rights to oil years into the future with borrowed money (margin) with no intention of ever taking delivery. But since the oil is technically bought up the price rises even though it’s all fake demand.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL PT. 6
17. For those fearful of regulation I ask… how much damage to the economy are you willing to absorb before you see that regulation is as necessary as speed limits on the roads? The short term benefits of capitol gamesmanship always end up a mess as we have with the housing situation. People simply can’t regulate their own behavior when it comes to making billions and billions. This is human nature, Christ spoke of forgiveness. That’s because we are all human in the first place! When markets that offer billions worth of profits, markets that can disrupt the world’s economy, are subject to abuse we have to set appropriate rules of the game for the stability of our markets. This is a national security issue. Look at Bear Sterns; the tax payer had to back them up to prevent a market meltdown. This will keep happening over and over until the world comes together and regulates the speculators and robber barons of the modern world.
18. How do I know all this… because I’ve been a trader myself for many years and know that world intimately. And the right wing marketing campaign of free markets creates anything but free markets. Traders, speculators, etc. are far too smart and ambitious live within the margins. They are needed for liquidity but it’s getting out of hand. What’s next, allowing pension fund manager to go to Vegas? This lack of regulation is not only distorting real world physical supply and demand, it’s risking our financial liquidity as a nation for a few more points of yield because the competition to outperform is reaching a toxic level of irresponsibility.

Critical thing on energy ...
McCain is spineless on the energy issue! Does he really want to be President, or is he just enjoying the ride???????????

conservatives illogical? hardly
Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over intellect, but masquerading as the reverse.


Nothing proves that more than the desert dweller's drivel...

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL PT. 7
A final point or two for those that can think. Why is ANWAR such an issue when the world is full of places to drill? The gulf has more oil then ANWAR AND there are already approved leases to drill there. Because ANWAR makes for political points & rallies the right since Clinton Vetoed it in the 90's. Who cares about ANWAR when there are 100's of other places to drill. AND we had a REP pres. & congress for 6 years. Why didn't they get it to his desk when they had control? This is a phony issue, nobody in power really wants to drill there.
Finally, as pointed out in #16 of my longer post, the Democrats basically attempted to force the oil companies to drill now, this year, on leases they already own. Who blocked that bill? The RIGHT. Why? Because they want the issue, not the solution. To understand read my earlier post.

Polly
I think you misunderstood me. I actually meant that if they want to go ahead with it that is up to them. Obviously there are trade offs with such issues, which is why we don't drill there now. It may be that the risk to tourism is too great, or it might not. I am not from Florida and have no way to judge the trade off involved, which is why I am happy to leave it to the Floridians.

Is noting that actions have consequences really equivalent to fear mongering?

Just like Chess BrianR.....
You walked right into this one.

Okay. If the oil companies really compete with each other, why do they always have identical pricing? The only way they compete is real estate for better locations for their stations. But, they do not compete on price.

Again, I've sold commodities. I know the deal. There is clear collusion. They are able to skate past the laws because they have been de-regulated.

For them to ALWAYS have identical pricing means that these "totally separate" companies have to buy the same amount of volume at the exact same time with identical operational, distribution and overhead costs. On the back side, you would have to have identical usage/consumption rates. Of course, this is not reality.

If they really competed, some would use their buying power/timing to leverage the market against their competitors. You would see "sales" and "deals" on gasoline coming from the manufacturer (like every other product bought/sold in America).

This is not capitalism. That's why our marketplace cannot support these prices. There is clear collusion and illegal practices. The friendly administration simply won't go after them.

conservatives are illogical?
In response to the "conservatives are illogical" comment, I pose a couple points:
One, conservativism is not completely anti-regulation. There must be some level of regulation in everything in order to maintain balance. Capitalism in it's purest form, with absolutely no regulation, is obviously dangerous. You end up with survival of the fittest, where only the Rockefellers and fellow elites are able to enjoy the successes of the free market. However, to go to the opposite extreme is also dangerous. Over regulating kills the life of creativity and vision. It clogs the flow of progress. So there must be a balance.
Second point, it seems to be the Democrats are the illogical ones. "We can't drill our way out of this problem" was all that Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barrack Obama had to say about allowing exploration on the outer continental shelf. So increasing the supply of oil on our own soil doesn't help bring down the price of gas? Seems logical to me. Will it solve the entire energy crisis in the long-haul? Not in and of itself. But increasing drilling and exploration on U.S. soil is part of a large, comprehensive solution to get this under control. We still need to pursue alternative energy sources, absolutely. That needs to be the long-term solution. But in the meantime, we're kidding ourselves if we think holding hearings to question oil executives about their yearly salaries is going to do anything to solve the problem. Particularly when there are billions of barrels of oil sitting under our feet.

In summary, balance is the key to regulation and essentially capitalism as a whole. And remember, not all Republicans truly represent core conservative values.

Fishing for liberals...
Whoa! I see there are a couple of whoppers here in this pond.

Think I'll bait my line and do a little bit of liberal fishing.

CHALLENGE: I hereby challenge anyone here to assert that the oil deposits off the Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf coasts of America, which lie in international waters, will not be developed and will remain in place indefinitely.

...ahh, that's a nice, fat, juicy piece of liberal fish bait. Now let's just cast it way out there in the middle of the pond...there, perfect.

I think I'll leave my fishing pole here, jump in my gas-guzzling Chevy truck, swing by the barbeque for a pulled-pork sandwich, maybe hit the country store for a Co-Cola and a moon pie, and check back later to see if I've caught anything.

The liberal fishing has been kind of slow lately. I caught two little ones yesterday, but they weren't worth keeping.

You don't think the liberal fish are getting smarter, do you?...nahhh...

Am I using the wrong kind of bait, maybe?


Your Obedient Servant,

George Washington

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
Funny thing about those who say the left is emotional... I wouldn't know as I've been a party line Republican for 25 years. I sure don't see any truth or logic in most of these right wing posts, just rehashes of Hannity, Rush, etc. And the most emotional people I've met are the right; bring up illegals, taxes or Democrats & they go crazy even though the data doesn't support their fears. I call that emotional! This country had its strongest period of real middle class growth between WW2 & the 80's. Yet all the right wingers live in fear of another era that focuses on the worker class. The right complains about the downfall of our secular culture but sees no connection to their policies that promote insecurity in terms of wages, healthcare and general social contracts between the citizens & its government. When parents have to work 2 jobs to make as much in real terms as our parents did on one job 40 years ago then it stands to reason that we are not creating a family values country despite the rhetoric.

My position is this; as a long time conservative it seems like we won it all, the congress, the presidency, etc. But all out theories, when actually practiced by power, didn't produce a government or a country close to the promise. Are there inherent flaws or conflicts between conservative thought & actual governing realities? Did we just have a run of bad luck with this mix of individuals who were supposed to govern so much better then the left? Until the right wing does a serious overhaul it's over for them. Obama attracts 75,000 people & yet you all still underestimate him politically & intellectually.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
The right needs to get beyond its 30 year old play book. The world has changed. Reagan was the right man at the right time. But we have a world that is so fundamentally different then even 15 years ago that new thinking is required. We all have to live in real time. China, India, Russia, these are great powerful emerging countries of successful mixes between free markets & competent government regulations. The modern right is so ideological that it has lost its ability to react as necessary to real world conditions & thought. We are drowning because the left right is so intense that we are not allowing our elected representatives to govern responsibly.

Gas should be $1 a gallon. AND we should mandate 100MPG cars within 15 years. Both realities could exist if the right would stop the fear of job losses & propaganda which is only about party control instead of real leadership. The right literally rules by using propaganda through Rush & Hannity, then takes a poll to see if it floats. Then they use it to blames problems on the left. Every issue follows the same formula. Which wouldn't really matter except as year after year passes by nothing gets done to take our nation into fiscal or social unity. Right wing politics is no longer about the ends, only the means.

Facts without truth, otherwise known as statistics don't get us anywhere if they only reason for their use is to become even more partisan. I haven't heard a new idea from the party of ideas in 15 years. And the left is annoying too. But when it comes to actual policy the current generation of liberals have a far more honest agenda to enhance the middle class and solve problems. Both side float BS but there's not one compelling policy on the right to warrant giving them another chance to screw things up again.

China drilling off Florida coast
Good point. China is already going after the oil 60 miles off the coast of Florida, thanks for a lease from Cuba:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/arch ive/200806/POL20080611e.html

If we don't go after the oil on our outer-continental shelf, someone else will.
We're so busy fighting amongst ourselves, democrats vs republican, congress vs oil companies, etc, etc, that we're going to miss finding a solution altogether.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
Arron03, you are reasonable... thanks.

I agree that balance is the key and we need to drill and also have a Manhattan type of energy progect to take us into the next centiry.

But that's not what is going on primarily due to the right at this point in histroy. Things flip back & forth but right now the left is more on track with reality. That so called windfall tax bill blocked a few weeks ago by the RIGHT would have forced the oil companies to drill right here, right now to avoid paying taxes. This was an attempt using language to please the loonier members of the left while in reality forcing the domestic oil industry to drill right now using already approved leases.

By blocking that bill what exactly is the right doing? We can only do 2 things; force private companies to drill now or start a national oil trust. The democrats attempted to force them to drill NOW!!!! Why doesn't the right have the sophistication to see the obvious? The oil companies are not drilling because there is no need to in an era of all time profits. The oil companies DO NOT WANT to drill because it costs a lot of money to drill.

ITS THE RIGHT WHO BLOCKED THE BILL THAT WOULD FORCE THEM TO DRILL IN ORDER TO AVOID PAYING TAXES!!!

Why can't you all get this? The right talks to the media about drilling but blocks legal methods to make the oil companies actually drill!

Obama going to tax dividends by 40-50%
Those oil sands dividends won't be looking very pretty in a few years. You can't run and escape the government. They will find out where people are investing and tax you.

re: conservatives are illogical
If you were a true conservative you would have convicting principles that go beyond what anyone in power does or tries to do.
The leftist rhetoric you're using won't let me believe for one second you were ever a conservative. I've been very disappointed myself by the Republicans in congress over the past several years. They haven't done nearly enough to represent the people. But it's the only options compared to the socialist agenda of the progressive Democratic party.
If I wanted socialism and weak national security I'd move to Europe.

BrianR
If my post was so “brain dead” then why did you fell obliged to acknowledge the necessary specter of restrictions on the free market. You should know as well as the brain dead that the addition of the ANWR reserves is a mere drop in the bucket of the world’s supply and that the ever increasing demand from China and others will perpetually keep that supply and demand formula escalating. Unless energy becomes nationalized, i.e. the free marketed is violated by restrictions, the “drill here, drill now” people will be amazed when we drill and the price remains the same as that lusted for north slope oil gets on a slow boat to China.

BTW why do you feel free to make such vitriolic attacks on fellow human beings simply because they have different ideas from you? Perhaps you should become a little more introspective.

re: conservatives are illogical
Thanks.

Well, we can't force oil companies to drill. That would be a firm step towards totalitarian government. We still need to work within the paramters of capitalism, but again, without giving enterprise free reign.

The windfall profit tax did nothing to help the problem. That's why it was blocked. The oil companies are the ones that explore, drill and refine, all of which take time and resource. We shouldn't penalize the companies for making money when their making money is providing us with the product we need.

I say let them explore on the outer-continental shelf, but make sure there are regulations to keep things safe and clean. Let them drill in ANWR, but again, regulate so that nothing is harmed. If they screw up the terrain, fine the hell out of them. They'll make sure to do a top-notch job (which they are capable of) if they know they'll have to pay outrageous fines for screwing up the environment. But with those expectations set, let them go after the oil.

A nationalized oil industry means less efficient prodution and supply. Anything nationalized is less efficient. History proves that.

Dem's logic
The failed policies of the past, including not drilling offshore and in ANWR, not building refineries, enacting restrictive environmental reviews before drilling or refining is done, not using nuclear energy and overtaxing gasoline have lead to the present crisis. Therefore, to have a successful energy policy, we must turn from the failed policies of the past and keep doing what we have because we wouldn't effect the price anyway because all oil companies care about is big profits which is why they are not drilling now and taking advantage of the record price of oil in the millions of acres where they have leases and it would take 10 years anyway which is why we enacted all this restrictive legislation 10 years ago and the gas tax is not high enough because poor people can't afford gas so we ought to tax oil companies more to pay for social programs because the benevolent oil companies wouldn't then raise the price of gas on poor people just because their cost went up so we should nationalize oil production because the government does a great job of running everything else, like Social Security and ADFC and hey, I'm on break.

Make sense? It does to Nancy Pelosi.

Love to all.

Aaron03...
...is, of course, correct.

The oil off the Outer Continental Shelf, which lies in international waters, will obviously be produced.

The only question open to discussion is by whom and when.

Aaron, I actually had a liberal on this website yesterday who tried to convince me that it didn't matter who drilled the oil, since any oil obtained anywhere on earth might end up anywhere else on earth. In other words, he claimed it would not benefit the U.S. one way or another.

I tried to point out that whomever drills for and produces the oil will get to keep either the BTUs or the bucks, but, alas, we are dealing with some people who have just a little more knowledge than is good for them, some with very little knowledge, some with no knowledge whatsoever, and, worst of all, in my opinion, some with great knowledge who are active deceivers of themselves and others.

Your Obedient Servant,

George Washington

Not a Librl GW. But, I'll take the bait
Of course there is additional supply. But, we don't have supply problems.

I'm all for drilling if it will reduce prices. But, according to the EIA, our supplies are actually greater than this time last year. Saudi Arabia will increase their production by 200k bpd. Doesn't matter. The price still goes up.

The only thing will happen if we allow them to drill, is they'll have even greater control over our economy. They'll be able to continue to hold us hostage.

Additional supply + lower demand = higher prices?? Doesn't add up.

desert dweller
The Republican congress was a prime example of "Power corrupts." Additionally, they seemed to be hurrying to get "their" share 'cause they seemed to expect to become a minority again--and lo and behold, IT HAPPENED!! This is a prime example of a "self-fulfilling prophesy."

Since Bush didn't have a filibuster-proof majority, some things were impossible to accomplish. And Bush wasn't a very effective advocate for his best ideas. He must have felt constrained by the constant pummeling by the Left with regard to The War We Couldn't Win.

And I never underestimate the power of the environmental wackos. They have tons of money, plenty to buy some in Congress, threaten others.

Hey, Salt!
I don't know what kind of work you're doing now, but if that doesn't work out you could always get one with the Democratic National Committee as some kind of half-*ssed advisor.

Your last post was a hoot! Sad to say, the Democrats policies actually reflect your satire.

Hey, no going on break...the government needs more tax money from you.

Your Obedient Servant,

George Washington

Lots of wisdom
I am totally impressed by all the wisdom exhibited in these posts. Those of you who know about the oil companies' collusion, or whatever nefarious means by which they keep our gas prices high, MUST contact your mentally challenged Congresspeople, who have had endless hearings, humongous photo-ops, and just plain demagoguing with all those oil company executives (AND THEY WONDER WHY THOSE GUYS GET THE BIG BUCKS?) yet have been unable to unearth anything worth even a fine, let alone criminal prosecution.

If y'all would volunteer to be witnesses for the Dem prosecution, I think those oil company execs will BREAK, and cheap gasoline will fill our tanks again and forever. And ANWR will remain pristine.

We don't need no [more] stinkin' oil.

The End.

R U a speculator?
If you have ever filled your car's gas tank, then filled a couple of addition gas cans to take with you, you MIGHT be a speculator.

George Washington
Thanks. I work for a Left-wing think tank. It's pretty lonely.

Washington: First in War, First in Peace, Last in the National League East.

Love to all.

Noted, Mr Krauthammer...
... your continued urging that John McCain take the bull by the horns. There are only so many opportunities in a campaign, and people begin to notice when a candidate continues to blink. He seems to believe it's all about high-mindedness... across-the-aisle hugging, etc. Flip-flopping is a good indicator. Maybe he really wants this thing afterall.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
Here's part of the problem, people have this stand by your principles attitude or else you're not a true conservative. This is not reality. As mankind evolves and learns more so does political philosophy. If by your standards I'm not conservative or never was then maybe so. But I haven't voted left in 25 years & at one time sounded just like most of you, all theory but little connection to reality. The idea that Government can't do anything as good as private industry is not true. Corporations were a mess in the 70's & 80's too, remember? But through evolution they've improved efficiently. We now have computers & a command of data that was impossible 30 years ago. Efficiency is a given when the right people are in charge & efficiency is mandated. The ideas of another time, another world, will not help us here & now. For example, our health care industry is private, the war in Iraq was largely outsourced. We are paying 3 & 4 times the cost for those 2 things alone because private industry has put profit above actually doing the job. People get bonuses dropping sick patients who paid for insurance in good faith. This is how animals behave, not decent people. All organizations are prone towards this when given a blank check. That's what the right doesn't want to see. A blank check with a profit motive is actually worse then letting a government run those programs. Russia, China, Europe, Canada all have longer life expectancies & 100% coverage for about a quarter of what we pay. Ignore the propaganda, 99% of people living there are happy with their health care & think we're crazy. Employer's are setting up shop in other countries to avoid giving health care benefits to US workers because of our stupid system that is in the pocket of insurance companies. How is this a democrat or republican issue?

Time?
If the "flag" went up tommorrow and the Feds told the oil companies they could drill, the energy companies they could begin the process of bringing on line new Nuclear power, the coal users to expand their operations, build new refineries, how long would it be before any one of these things could truly occur?

The sheer volume of permits and studies required by the green states and federal statutes and the inevitable lawsuits brought in green friendly courts would tie these endeavors up for decades.

We've created this mess by allowing the greenies and their Democratic friends to prevail in the public sector.

Short of an outright revolution I do not see a solution.

Don't anybody kid themselves that the recent comments regarding "nationalization" of Big Oil were slips-of-the-tongue. We will see concerted efforts to nationalize the entire Energy Industry, the Healthcare Industry and possibly the Finance Industry. If Obama is elected these efforts will be blatant. If McCain, with a Democrat controlled Congress, it will be more subtle and will take alittle longer.

PC is Thought Control
LEE

mrs. paddy....bingo!
zell miller is no democrat...ohh, excuse me you are right..on paper he's a demorat!
When I think of the statement "Mc cain is better than obammmmmaaammma.."I think of the comparison between fidel castro and his brother
his brother is allowing cell phones-under strict
gvmnt. control! But they have cell phones......
whoopie ! Is my comparison getting thru? I once thought Mc Cain would make a decent Sec. of
Defence..but as the debates went on..I changed my mind..he was at one time for closing down
guantanamo,no waterboarding,etc. Romney,hunter,
paul(?),tancredo probably would have been better
how in god's name did we get to this bowl of
mess?! The stupid primaries...need changed!No
more winner take all...pure hogwash!
elvis

the-desert-dweller
There is not a single ounce of anything in your myriad of posts that would convince me you were EVER a conservative. A republican - maybe. But not a true conservative in the "Reagan" sense of the word.

More likely - you are a leftist troll claiming conservative roots.

I will give you an "A" for posting the greatest number of words on this thread, however.

Critical thinking on energy
It makes too much sense for us to drill for oil here in this part of the "global economy" for any democrat to approve. How stupid can we be? Now that China is drilling 50 ft. offshore of Fla....we don't hear "nary a peep" out of the environmentalists who are mostly from the democRAT party. Wonder why? Could it be that they are actually GLAD prices are up now, thinking that will help ensure their election? Now add to the high price of oil, the new taxes every tax paying citizen will pay, take away all the tax breaks the Bush adm. gave us and we will be no more than worker bees supporting the Queen bee. If you work harder than others you will be taxed more so that everyone comes out with about the same amt. of course, the govmt. will be happy to pay for your childcare so you can both work full time while they cover the expenses by deducting more and more from your check...and you young healthy singles will have to pay a hefty sum for your govmt. provided health care whether you need it or not.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
Regarding forcing the oil companies to drill, we've fought wars over oil, oil is like air to the modern world. If a company owned air rights but held back to increase profits while bankrupting a nation wouldn't the government have the right to make them release the air? If we were attacked militarily doesn't the government have an obligation to defend us? If someone assaults me don't we have laws to prosecute and maintain order? The only reason our country is as strong as it is on all fronts is that we are the gold standard, the AAA bond in terms of our financial system, our governmental system & our military. When any of those legs are found to be compromised it is the governments obligation to clean up the system.
Look @ 3rd world countries, the poor in Mexico, Afica, etc. This is what happens when you have a weak central governments & poorly enforced/innadequate laws.

The oil complex in total is literally stealing the wealth & resources of our population as we pay $4+ for a gallon of gas that costs .25 cents to produce. So before addressing the systematic loopholes & flaws in the market the Right wants to prolong the situation by blocking any mandate to force more drilling & update market regulations. And then they get on TV & say drill while blocking legislation that would actually make them drill!!!

Why do so many conservatives worship irresponsibility in the name of the free market? Why do they accept severe economic damage to our country because of an ideology but find value in picking on welfare mothers & illegals?
Fundamentalism, whether religious or political, is insane!!!

K.I.S.S.....economics!
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! I was told this a long time ago.... It is always better to depend on your self instead of somone else..I don't care
if it's oil,food,money or whatever!
When you depend on somone else..it may work for a while...but to be at the mercy of someone else...is very dangerous! End of the economics
lesson! No charge this time!
elvis

Comedy or tragedy?
At 3:54, I said,"Therefore, to have a successful energy policy, we must turn from the failed policies of the past and keep doing what we have because we wouldn't effect the price anyway because all oil companies care about is big profits which is why they are not drilling now and taking advantage of the record price of oil in the millions of acres where they have leases and it would take 10 years anyway which is why we enacted all this restrictive legislation 10 years ago."

The-desert-dweller said, "If a company owned air rights but held back to increase profits while bankrupting a nation wouldn't the government have the right to make them release the air?"

I said,"we ought to tax oil companies more to pay for social programs because the benevolent oil companies wouldn't then raise the price of gas on poor people just because their cost went up so we should nationalize oil production because the government does a great job of running everything else, like Social Security and ADFC and hey, I'm on break."

The-desert-dweller said,"Look @ 3rd world countries, the poor in Mexico, Afica (sic), etc. This is what happens when you have a weak central governments & poorly enforced/innadequate (sic) laws.

The oil complex in total is literally stealing the wealth & resources of our population as we pay $4+ for a gallon of gas that costs .25 cents to produce. "

Mine was satire. I dunno about the other.

I do know that liberals are funniest when they are trying to argue intellectually what they feel emotionally.

Love to all.




R.A.M.
Hey, don't get too close to my fishing pole, you'll scare away the liberal fish!

Seriously, everything I have read indicates that you are correct in that there is no short-term supply problem. People far more knowledgeable than I have attributed a large part of the price spike to pure old-fashioned speculation. One set of numbers I saw mentioned an increase from $13 billion annually to $230 billion annually in the trading of oil futures contracts.

As far as decreased demand is concerned, I must say I have heard conflicting numbers on this subject. I have read that U.S. demand is down, with overall worldwide demand up.

Maybe somebody out there can help us out with the skinny on worldwide demand numbers.

I guess my thing on drilling off the coast is that it is going to happen, so why would we allow a competitor to get the oil?

Your Obedient Servant,

George Washington

re: conservatives are illogical
Conservatives don't worship irresponsibility. At least not the ones I know. You do bring up a valid point that there is loads of corruption in the corporate world, in the medical industry, and pretty much in every business. The reason? They're run by people. Anywhere you have people, money, and power involved, you get some level of corruption. You have to do what you can to create a level playing field to curb as much of the corruption as possible, but there will always be those looking to hurt other for their own benefit. In example, I work in the financial industry and we have the SEC to help govern with strict regulations. Perfect? No. But better than nothing. We must always work for imrpovement. But you know where you also find corruption? Government. Why? It's run by people.
Our underlying difference is this: I would rather deal with corruption amongst many different businesses, enterprises, industries, etc than corruption with an all-powerful and controlling government. The traditional conservative view is that the role of government is to protect the people (by military force, regulation of industry, etc). But the underyling role is protecting the people. The governments role is NOT to provide for the people or run their lives. It's a hard balance to walk, but we have to avoid extremes.

Speculatin' on the speculators
Maybe oil speculation is so popular because the dollar is weak.

Maybe the dollar is weak because the geniuses in Congress keep spending trillions of dollars we don't have.

Maybe more supply will mean when the speculators try to cash in (they are "futures", right?) they will LOSE money on their speculation.

I don't know. I'm just a Southerner.

Hand me another mint julep, Beulah.

Love to all.

CONSERVATIVES ARE ILLOGICAL,...
Our military, best on the planet. Our fireman, policeman, etc. Awesome. Aren't they government run?

In the 1800's every person paid for fireman insurance individually. Some some did, some didn't. It was chaos, fires would spread from an insured home to an uninsured so they'd watch a house burn while the neighbors would be saved if he paid the bill. It was so crazy that we socialized these necessities & they now perform fantastically. But people fought it, just like modern conservatives fight progress here & now.

Reagan raised taxes after cutting them, granted amnesty, etc. By todays standards Reagan would not be acceptable. He pushed amnesty for 5 years prior to the Dems having the courage to deliver. Somehow Hannity has re-defined Reagan conservatism to something it never was. Reagan worked with Democrats very cooperatively.

Without repeating Conservative bromides I challenge anyone on here to advocate policy based on the facts:

1. No shortage of oil, why drill for more? and why would anyone make more of something we already have plenty of?
2. No Increase in demand
3. Oil companies aren't voluntarily interested in drilling on currently approved leases
4. $4 a gallon for something that costs .25 cents to produce.
5. billions poured into commodity markets
6. Oil is necessary to the security & welfare of the entire world
7. Domestic oil will primarily benefit the oil companies since the oil isn't really ours as US citizens. It belongs to the extractors. If Ford makes a car it isn't mine anymore then a Hyundai is!!!

So no insults, no superficial stuff, just give me the conservative solution using the real indisputable facts I've highlighted!

What does Conservative principles such as drilling, as mandated by Hannity & Rush, have to do with bringing down the price of gas when there is no shortage in the first place?

The answer is simple
The environmental wackos and other liberals are all traitors trying to destroy the country and give it to the Islamofaxcist terrorists.

Tu no comprendes
I hate to engage, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to see if you are sincerely interested in dialogue:

1. The more American oil on the world market, the more supply to drive down the ACTUAL costs when the speculators cash in their oil futures. Also, we are at refining capacity domestically.

2. There is great increase in demand from China, India, Al Gore and John Travolta's jets.

3. Oil companies are currently EXPLORING the land where those leases are because the GOVT has not allowed them to drill where they KNOW the oil is.

4. Who says it takes .25 to produce a gallon of gas? Besides 15% taxes and 8% profit (interesting the govt makes more on gas than Big Oil. How about a windfall tax tax?) the distribution and refining costs are the small part. The largest part of a gallon of gas by far is the price of crude.

Here is liberal icon Robert Reich:
"Monday, June 09, 2008
Why is Gas at $4 a Gallon?

Conspiracy theories abound, but the soaring price of crude oil (today around $137 a barrel) is related to four more mundane forces:

(1) growing demand from developing nations, especially China and India. This is the main reason for the price rise over the last six years.

(2) the dropping dollar. I attribute half of oil's price rise since January to this.

(3) Global investors (including, perhaps, your own pension fund) are anxious about the American economy, and looking to hedge their bets against future declines. Oil is one of the commodities that looks like a good bet. Hence, there's speculation in oil futures.

(4) Instability in the Middle East."

Reich understands. Why don't you try?

Your questions 5,6 and 7 do not make sense to me.

Love to all.


Time for Conservatives to be Honest
Arron03, very reasonable. thanks again. I see things as a swinging pendulum & as you say, since all endeavors are run by people there are going to be problems whether private or public. So I'm basically looking around at a terribly executed war that I support. Rummy should have been gone immediately. A collage education puts many in debt till their 40's while other countries provide higher education as we once did. We built the greatest centers of knowledge during the 50's, 60's & 70's. Built the greatest highway system in the world, gave the world innovation & entertainment & created the highest standard of living in human history. But it wasn't an accident, it was forced by laws & mandates & a population interested in investing in US as people, not just 401K's.

Now we have $4 gas, demoralized citizens, a shrinking middle class, lowered world opinion, weak dollar, cancerous national debt., etc.
This happened primarily under Conservative administrations. Clinton, with a Rep congress, gave us a surplus through responsible tax rates & the benefit of a good economy.
Facts are facts. I may have been more conservative in the past but I'm for the USA, not a failed ideology or party. As conservatives we tried. And failed. Many of our core beliefs don't translate to good results in actual governance. Some people still believe in USSR style communism if it was only done right! But China is mixing big government with free markets & it is working very well, the people are very happy in the developing areas. We have to keep up with reality.
If todays geopolitical condition & economic situation happened under a democrat with oil industry roots the right would be calling for an execution. All I'm advocating is truth in advertising.

Desert-Dweller in AZ is a Leftist plant
In one of his many diatrabes attacking conservatives, Dweller advocates a joint public/private consortium that sells domestic oil to American markets at prices set by government regulators, with any "excess" oil to be sold abroad. "Almost all other oil fields are nationalized," he writes, and we must adopt "new thinking...beyond the Right's 30-year-old playbook...to provide a product that the world needs almost as much as air." (Parenthetically speaking, with this kind of logic, can nationalized health care and guaranteed college educations be far behind?)

After spouting this Leftist hallucinatory claptrap, Dweller even had the audacity to call himself a former conservative of 25 years. Perhaps the desert sun oxidized more than a few brain cells, and his frontal cortex got dessicated while looking for the on-line DNC hiring office!

Dweller speculates that "oil companies do not want to drill" in Alaska or elsewhere because they're adamant about constricting supply and gauging the consumer. He slams the Right by charging that "many aspects of conservative thought don't work as well in reality as the theory predicts." If this self-identified former "trader" is really an honest broker, he'd rise to the challenge and support Alaskan drilling, is only to subject his own theories to empirical testing.

Dweller is correct on one theoretical point: "There is no shortage of oil currently, and no shortage anticipated for decades." As an instructor of microeconomics, I always taught my students that lasting shortages could never exist in a market economy. L