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Friday, July 27, 2007
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Bombing...
by Charles Krauthammer
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON -- For Barack Obama, it was strike two. And this one was a right-down-the-middle question from a YouTuber in Monday night's South Carolina debate: "Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea?"

"I would," responded Obama.

His explanation dug him even deeper: "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous."

From The Nation's David Corn to super-blogger Mickey Kaus, a near audible gasp. For Hillary Clinton, next in line at the debate, an unmissable opportunity. She pounced: "I will not promise to meet with the leaders of these countries during my first year." And she then proceeded to give the reasons any graduate student could tick off: You don't want to be used for their propaganda. You need to know their intentions. Such meetings can make the situation worse.

Just to make sure no one missed how the grizzled veteran showed up the clueless rookie, the next day Clinton told the Quad-City Times of Davenport, Iowa, that Obama's comment "was irresponsible and frankly naive."

To be on the same stage as the leader of the world's greatest power is of course a prize. That is why the Chinese deemed it a slap in the face that President Bush last year denied President Hu Jintao the full state-visit treatment. The presence of an American president is a valued good to be rationed -- and granted only in return for important considerations.

Moreover, summits can also be traps if they're not wired in advance for success, such as Nixon's trip to China, for which Henry Kissinger had already largely hammered out the famous Shanghai communique. You don't go hoping for the best, as Hillary's husband learned at the 2000 Camp David summit, when Yasser Arafat's refusal of Israel's peace offer brought Arafat worldwide opprobrium -- from which he sought (successfully, as it turned out) to escape by launching the second intifada. Such can be the consequences of ill-prepared summits.

Obama may not have known he made an error, but his staff sure did. In the post-debate spin room, his closest adviser, David Axelrod, was already backpedaling, pretending that Obama had been talking about diplomacy and not summitry with rogue state leaders.

Obama enthusiasts might want to write this off as a solitary slip. Except that this was the second time. The first occurred in another unscripted moment. During the April 26 South Carolina candidates' debate, Brian Williams asked what kind of change in the U.S. military posture abroad Obama would order in response to a hypothetical al-Qaeda strike on two American cities.

Obama's answer: "Well, the first thing we would have to do is make sure that we've got an effective emergency response -- something that this administration failed to do when we had a hurricane in New Orleans."

Asked to be commander in chief, Obama could only play first-responder in chief. Caught off guard, and without his advisers, he simply slipped into two automatic talking points: emergency response and its corollary -- the obligatory Katrina Bush-bash.

When the same question came to Hillary, she again pounced: "I think a president must move as swiftly as is prudent to retaliate." Retaliatory attack did not come up in Obama's 200-word meander into multilateralism and intelligence gathering.

These gaffes lead to one of two conclusions: (1) Obama is inexplicably unable to think on his feet while standing on South Carolina soil, or (2) Obama is not ready to be a wartime president.

During our 1990s holiday from history, being a national-security amateur was not an issue. Between the 1991 death of the Soviet Union and the terror attacks of 2001, foreign policy played almost no part in our presidential campaigns. But post-9/11, as during the Cold War, the country demands a serious commander in chief. It is hard to imagine that with all the electoral tides running in their favor, the Democrats would risk it all by nominating a novice for a wartime presidency.

Do the Democrats want to risk strike three, another national security question blown, but this time perhaps in a final presidential debate before the '08 election, rather than a midseason intraparty cattle call? The country might decide that it prefers, yes, a Republican -- say, 9/11 veteran Rudy Giuliani -- to a freshman senator who does not instinctively understand why an American president does not share the honor of his office with a malevolent clown like Hugo Chavez.

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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But he is for UHC, so he must be OK!
If you watched the (D) candidates at the YouTube/CNN debate last night, you may have been aware of a sickening sensation that began in the pit of your stomach and then headed north.

In my case, the above symptoms occurred when the candidates were discussing the merits of various Universal Health Care plans. There was no discussion about whether UHC was moral or fair to the providers of Health Care. In fact, the providers were roundly criticized and subjected to the outraged indignation of the candidates.

Nor was there any mention of the efficacy of UHC in delivering high-quality health care.

Not one (D) candidate expressed the viewpoint that in light of all the failed entitlement programs that currently exist, we may want to rethink the very concept of entitlements before we even consider tacking on this new behemoth.

If you are a Leftist, instead of intestinal discomfort, you may have felt the comfort of knowing that soon, oh so very soon, all your health care problems would be swept away as you were nestled snugly in the bosom of the State, cocooned by the warmth and generosity of Universal Health Care. In that case, you may have cheered on your favorite candidate as s/he scored rhetorical points against the evil providers?
----------------end of excerpt-------------------
To read the article titled "And 'free' healthcare for all ..'" click on http://voice.townhall.com

Yes, but he has a pretty face,
soothing voice and just the right skin tone to assuage our white guilt.

Does anyone really believe that Obama's naivete will disqualify him among dems and trendy moderates? Rather, he will be toasted as nuanced and erudite, refreshingly unburdened by the failed policies of the past.

Look how close John Kerry came with his many gaffes and flip-flops.

He'd like to buy the world a Coke
or perhaps Some Coke.

I have seen high school class presidents with more worldly knowledge than Obama seems to have. But as a person who has travelled extensively and has friends in virtually every country in the world, I know that America is unique among the nations and Obama apparently does not. How does a man get to that age without understanding that NA$CAR is not racing, the NFL is not football, and talking to the Borg gets you nowhere?

my 2 cents
1) Once upon a time when bo's name kept popping up more and more I posed over and over the rhetorical question "Is there any THERE there?"

That question is being answered little by little.

2) "The presence of an American President is a valued good to be rationed - and granted only in return for important considerations."

A good point well made - even Jeb Bartlet knew that.

Halo
Don't pi$$ on my shoes and tell me it's raining. We are all smart enough to understand what Zionism really means. This blame the Jews for all the world's woes is old news. In a world of 6 billion please tell me how a few million Jews are screwing everything up? For the record it wasn't 19 Jews who hijacked those planes on
9-11-01 and killed all those people! Or do you buy into the "inside job" theory? Rearrange your tinfoil hat then maybe you can get the cartoon network and leave the discussion to adults. For the record I am not Jewish but Catholic and for the record I wasn't molested.

Back on point...
....Krauthammer brings to bear what the star-struck fans of Senator Obama have been dreading for the past 6 months: monumental inexperience. Given that she is the "lesser of two weevils," Senator Clinton at least sounds like she has a handle - albeit tenuous - on what is required to be a President. Senator Obama is like a off-year, early wine: he requires much more time in the seasoning cast before he is brought to the world table.

Cheers,

Ron Albright

http://www.ronalbright.com

obama
I have been wondering when missus clinton would drive a stake throught the heart of this dracula look a like. It appears that like that mythical monster obama is destroying himself by stepping into the sunlight. Many thought that his sonorous voice was an indicator of intelligence. I guess they read their tea leaves incorrectly. Even worse for him is that when missus clinton gets the nomination there is no reason to pick him as VP. The dims already have the black vote in their back pocket and don't need an advocate for their"speacial" needs, ie mmore govt programs. Further his comments indicate a shallow thinker whose ideas and public statements would not be in tune with the clinton agenda should she get the presidency. He'll be kept on for window dressing but his days of being considered a serious candidate have ended. He lacks too much experience in thinking and dealing with the issues facing this country but he makes the mistake of displaying his inexperience in front of the puiblic. But again we can thank the media. They created both jackson and sharpton and sought to create a "new" leader in obama. Again the media has failed

Didn't Register With Focus Groups
With all due respect, Mr K., while your analysis is right as rain, Mr Obama's inane debate response didn't register with the Democrat focus group being conducted by FOX News' Frank Luntz, during the debate. They were too blinded by Obama's charismatic personality and his soothing articulate delivery to notice the substance of his answers...which is why Hillary Clinton had to give the wake up slap, post-debate. The analysts, such as yourself, are focusing on issue substance and the electorate is going with candidate charm. Astute analysis aside, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is listening, is there sound? God help us all.

Dem reaction to Obama
acceptreality writes: "Does anyone really believe that Obama's naivete will disqualify him among dems and trendy moderates? Rather, he will be toasted as nuanced and erudite, refreshingly unburdened by the failed policies of the past."

That is, in fact, exactly what happened. Democratic rank-and-file focus groups who watched the debate said that Obama won, and his approach (meeting with any foreign leader w/o preconditions) is exactly what they want to see. They called Hillary "warlike" just for attaching preconditions to meetings with foreign leaders.

Hillary may have scored with moderate Democrats, and insulated herself from some attacks by Republicans once she's nominated.

But in both political parties, party primaries are dominated by party activists, the most ideologically committed. Obama scored with the Democrat party activists.

FACTOID: In 2004, the Boston Globe surveyed delegates to the Democratic National Convention in Boston, to check their attitudes on a variety of issues. They were given a multiple-choice questionnaire. For the question "Which factor is primarily responsible for the 9-11 terrorist attack," a plurality of them responded "Past U.S. Wrongdoing." Only a tiny minority responded "Islamic Extremism."

Obama is frightening to Republicans
It's clear to me that Republicans are far more afraid of Obama then they are of Hillary. They seem to be desperate to paint him in a negative light. I think Obama is right to say he'd be willing to meet with these rogue leaders if for no other reason then to give them a stern lecture and to draw hard lines for acceptable behavior. He never promised to make nice with these guys; he only promised to meet with them. Presonally, I think that's a refreshing change from Washington politics as usual. And if anyone can turn a person around it's Obama. He has a long history of success at this.

And the idea that Rudi Guilliani would make a good president on national security grounds is laughable. He has whole-heartedly endorsed the current policy which has been a complete and utter failure. Only delusional Republicans want more of the same. His big plan is to "stay on offensth", whatever the hell that means. I suppose it means he'd invade yet another country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

If Obama gets the nomination, you Republicans are going to lose huge.

Phylo out

Hillary Clinton, Warmonger/Fearmonger

She has bought into the neocon belief that war is power, to be wielded anywhere and at any time to keep the empire in check.

Unbeknownst to many, the Republicans have an intelligent, anti-war candidate in Ron Paul. His campaign is fueled by a grassfire effort of the PEOPLE, and he collects a whopping 48% of his support from the PEOPLE.

Since Dr. Paul is not part of the moneyed media/military/corporate complex, his visibility has been mostly limited to the PEOPLE's media---the Internet.

This article concisely explains the Ron Paul phenomenon:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/sutton1.html

Come join the Ron Paul revolution!

U-Tube Debate
Krauthammer amd Buchanan are both respected journalists.
Buchanan believes Barak is correct in talking to the leaders of of Syria, Iran, etc and cites past examples of such diplomacy.
Krauthammer believes Barak is naive and ridiculous.He beleaves further that the office of the President should not be shared with malevolent clowns.
The truth is in there somewhere.Should we or shouldn't we?
In my opinion the 'CUT AND RUN'diplomacy(?) is not part of the truth, though.



Obama in 2016?
At this point, he's got to be thinking the best he can do is become Hillary's running mate. And that's fine with me because he will only drag her ticket down.


That's Why they Have those Convention
thingies every four years. Once the kibuke dance of democracy is done, the conventions provide a venue wherein the party bosses can knock a the chief delegates heads together, undertake a few sequential slaps, and poke a few pairs of eyes, all in order to wake these stooges to the fact that primary elections are done, and it is now general election time. Does anyone think for a second that the DNC won't pull some kind of backroom stunt if their kook base elects someone destined to drive the Democrat bus over the general election cliff? It's been four decades since the Chicago Democratic Convention, which blew away the old "back room" delegational deal-making. Since then, with the sole exception of the Clintons, Democratic Conventions have been less consensus building sessions for the party's candidate for general election as much as they have been circular firing-squads. We cannot depend on the DNC to keep committing quadrennial ritual suicide forever, especially with the Clintons being fully involved.

So, it really does not matter who the DNC lunatic base loves in the primaries. If Obama or even Edwards catches fire with them, so what? For the 2008 Election cycle, any primary that elects anyone other than Hillary Clinton is only selecting her running-mate - at best. All that Obama is proving now is that he needs way more "seasoning" before he can become presidential material. This very much like Al Gore's situation back in and before 1992. Does anyone remember when Al ran in both 1984 and 1988? Al's lack of executive experience always handicapped him, until he snagged the VP spot with the Clintons. No matter how badly the Clintons misbehavior may have tainted Al's tenure as VP, both he, and especially then (Hill and Bill) knew that without the Clintons, Al NEVER would have had the chance to be US President. Obammy may not know this now, but the BEST that he can hope for, if he wishes to become the first "Black" US President, is be like Al Gore, behave for Bill and Hill, and eat his damn peas for 8 more years.

-Trentamj

-Trentamj

I did not think
Obama's answer on this was bad at all. We are speaking to Iran right now -- as I said in another post, to quote Sherlock Holmes, "it's a wicked, wicked world," and I think we need to do whatever will help the US, even if it means talking to corrupt, evil regimes that are our enemies.

Osama Obama
Obama may have lost his chance to be vise president.

Phylo
You are certainly correct in my case - Obama scares the hell out of me!

It is hard to imagine that anyone, let alone a sizable percentage of Democrats would even consider voting for someone so inexperienced and naive.

Here is a person with no international/diplomatic experience, no business experience, no legislative experience, no economic experience, mo military knowledge/experience, etc.

... and you people want to vote for this guy?

The only reason people are rallying around Obama is that he can talk! It doesn't seem to matter WHAT he says, or how much sense it makes ... only that he is able to deliver a good speech.

As I have posted here several times, to vote for the average Representative/Senator is to cast a vote for the laziest and most uninformed official in our federal government. They do nothing except give speeches that are prepared for them by staffers, and cast votes that are determined to be 'correct' by their staffers. Most of the time they don't even read the proposed legislation before they vote on it.

It is time for both Democrats and Republicans to back candidates with real stature and past (qualifying) accomplishments, rather than just shallow personalities and access to money.

Wicked, Wicked World
Remember the 70's bumper sticker "Nuke Iran". Let's print some more up...

Nor a peacetime President
"Obama is not ready to be a wartime president"

Obama isn't ready to be President, period. He is a junior bush league politician with no real experience who, because he is half black, has been allowed to jump to the front of the line as Hillary's most serious challenger. If he were white, he would have been laughed off the stage a year ago.

The last thing this country needs after 8 years of Bush's bumbling is yet another naife who only ever really wanted the spotlight.

obama bombs
good article....to the point with expliicite references..i agree...but he sure made hillary's days...did he not? cynthia

walt
You say that the only reason people are rallying around Obama is that he can talk.

Actually, it's because he can think and because he's been a remarkable success at everything he has ever done. Ask anyone who has ever worked with him. Even his political opponents, if they're honest, will admit that they have an incredible amount of respect for him. If you want to know his thoughts about politics, or economics, or foreign policy, they are available for everyone to see in his two books. I've only read one, The Audacity of Hope, but it's an incredible book. The guy is truly amazing and he writes like a dream. Most of his critics, like you, know nothing about him other than these tiny little soundbites from debates that only give you thirty seconds to respond, and what you hear from partisan hacks like Krauthammer––hardly a good way to judge a candidate.

And compare Obama with W. Bush has failed at everything he has ever done and couldn't write a book fit for fifth graders if his life depended on it.

Don't be afraid to think for yourself walt.

Phylo out.

The naivete of Obama and his supporters
is illustrated perfectly by Phylo Se Fiser with his talk of "stern lectures" and "turning people around". What nonsense.

The POTUS must have a clear understanding of the nature of tyranny and tyrants. Bill Clinton did not. Hillary might--hard to say what's artifice and what's sincere belief when it comes to Herself. But, Obama demonstrates once again that he most emphatically does not. I don't want him anywhere near my national security. Fortunately, he won't be getting the nomination and he won't be tapped for running mate, so the point is moot. It is important, however, to keep reminding ourselves about what fools these Democrats be.

A Straw Man
Obama has never been a serious candidate. I watched an Obama rally on CSPAN about a week ago and Obama meandered around telling personal anecdotes which put the crowd to sleep. The event was staged without any thought as to what would be in the shot with Obama or where the sunlight and shadows were. Amateur hour. He's just a bit of fluff so that you pathetic Dems dont get the feeling that Mrs BJ Clinton is being rammed down your throat. For Krauthammer, who I love, to waste a column analyzing this soon-to-be-forgotten empty suit is a shame. What'll it be next week, a sizzling deconstruction of Ron Paul?

Easy prediction.

Even before all the screaming and the shouting dies down... America will have elected Rudy Guiliani as the next president of the United States.

National security is, and will be, the over-riding concern... as soccer moms will be security moms and voters will know that it is gut-check time.

Everything else... will be a distant second.




Afraid of Obama?
You've got to be kidding.

Obama is a poodle compared to pit bull Hillary.

Is Obama Ready?
I will ask other questions: Was Kennedy ready in 1961. What support did he lend to the Bay of Pigs invasion? What was the end result of that invasion. Further -- what impression did Kennedy make in the 1961 Paris summit with Kruschev? And, what were the results. I know it's risky to give post hoc ergo proper hoc arguments, but I submit that Kruschev sensed a very niave and very weak President and in turn gave us the Berlin Wall and the Cuban Missle Crisis.

Obama wants people to think that he is the reincarnation of JFK. Well .....

Phylo
Steven King a good writer too. Perhaps you'll vote for him as President. Or better yet vote for one of the Hallmark writers. Their greeting cards are profound and nuanced compared to Obama's shallow feel-good platitudes.

Face it. Obama is a ridiculous light-weight.

Phylo: Really?
"Actually, it's because he can think and because he's been a remarkable success at everything he has ever done. Ask anyone who has ever worked with him. Even his political opponents, if they're honest, will admit that they have an incredible amount of respect for him. If you want to know his thoughts about politics, or economics, or foreign policy, they are available for everyone to see in his two books. I've only read one, The Audacity of Hope, but it's an incredible book. The guy is truly amazing and he writes like a dream. Most of his critics, like you, know nothing about him other than these tiny little soundbites from debates that only give you thirty seconds to respond, and what you hear from partisan hacks like Krauthammer––hardly a good way to judge a candidate."

+ Really? What has he accomplished other than demonstrating the functional limitations of “affirmative action?” President of the Harvard Law Review? Could this be a measure of personal charisma applied to a popularity contest vice ability? At an institution that is infamous WRT grade inflation? At an institution where, Mr. Derek Bok, the outgoing president stated that if weren’t for affirmative action/quotas, 90% of all hyphenated-Americans couldn’t gain admission on their own merits? Graduated magna c** laude from Harvard Law School? If 90% of Harvard undergraduates can graduate c** laude or better with degrees focusing on some nebulous “mental masturbation”-related subject, it stands to reason that the same can be expected of its Law School. Illinois State Senator? His voting record as a Peoples Republic of Illinois senator places him to the far, far-left of Clinton. When he became firmly ensconced in Illinois politics, his wife’s salary as a Hospital “Community Outreach Coordinator” coincidentally went from $125K to $375K. Not that said community hospital was trying to buy any influence. God knows. An elected Senator? Being elected allows first rate personalities with second rate minds to achieve power & privilege without have to take the time to earn said power & privilege legitimately. Published two (2) works of self-aggrandizing banality camouflaged as books? Wow!!! Any infamous wife killer can hire a “ghost writer” to generate a manuscript ready for publishing. You place entirely too much value on what the MSM allows you to read.

+ Intelligence? Ever spent time at MIT’s Lincoln Lab? I have. Ever won a multi-million $ scientific grant based on an original theory? I just did. The so called “intelligence” of sophists like Mr. Obama doesn’t impress the “demonstrably intelligent.” Call me a technocratic snob, but engaging in Sophoclean rhetoric & the verbal “hairsplitting” endemic to the Legal Profession is hardly indicative of analytic intelligence. Neither is pandering to your parasitic voter base. His black-chauvinism recently manifested itself when he was recorded pandering to a group of equally-chauvinistic hyphenated-American “community leaders & other assorted poverty pimps at Hampton University, a 1st tier “HBC” but 2nd tier university. Big surprise. Here’s an individual who has had everything handed to him because of the hue of skin & the charisma of his personality.

+ What is Mr. Obama other than an enabler/apologist for hyphenated-American privilege in perpetuity: affirmative action/quotas, progressive (i.e., white) confiscatory income taxation that supports a welfare state, etc? Hardly original thinking WRT a demographic group that votes solidly Socialist/Democrat due to their institutionalized “entitlement” mentality.

+ Where’s the real diversity of thought among the Democrat candidates. What is the Democratic Party’s idea of “Diversity”? Answer: ethnic, gender, sexual-orientation heterogeneity while maintaining socialist/neo-Marxist ideological purity. Leading Democrat candidates:

+White-male, neo-Marxist trial lawyer;
+White-female, neo-Marxist trial lawyer; and
+ Black-male, neo-Marxist trail lawyer

+ All advocating cradle to grave socialism (e.g., socialized medicine) IOT appeal to their “parasite class” (e.g., entitlement-minded single women) voter base.

+ Have you ever noticed that the very same trial lawyers never seem to advocate “Socialized Legal Services”?

+ Phylo, please return to your alternate reality of perception. Given your demonstrated lack of intellectual granularity, I do wonder sometimes if you are just some soft-science Academic or merely an enabler/apologist of victim-group misbehavior firmly ensconced in your non-profit ivory tower of like-minded, enlightened leftists, actively lobbying for government handouts to further your social engineering agenda.

Demosthenes
One question: Have you read either of Obama's books?

Bad boy
Yes, it is anecdotal. Most of the people I know are for Obama. Hillary is leading in the polls for now, but I think Obama will pick up speed and overtake her by late fall.

And if Hillary is nominated, I'm sitting out the election. I'm sickened by the entrenched powers that be. She's as much for expanding American empire as the neocons.

Obama
He is proving himself true of everything I ever said about him...wet behind the ears naive. The same people that fall for Obama are the same people who celebrity worship and think the sun sets and rises around these people. It really shows a lack of intellect.

FYI Obama bashers
Michael Medved read both of Obama's books with the aim of trying to find something he could criticize him with and admitted that he couldn't find anything.

Do you folks think you know more than Medved about who would make a good political candidate?

You underestimate the man, big time.

Phylo out.

Phylo: Really???
“And compare Obama with W. Bush has failed at everything he has ever done and couldn't write a book fit for fifth graders if his life depended on it.”

Really? Granted, I think Mr. Bush should impeached for his failure to secure our national borders- probably due to his slavish devote to the idiotic notion of “free trade.” Free trade destroyed the Bristish Empire- but that’s another discussion. However, I think you’ve made some overgeneralizations:

+Legitimately admitted to Havard with an IQ of 126 and an SAT score of 1260: which is higher than the majority of hyphenated-Americans currently being admitted via affirmative action. Obtained Harvard MBA.

+While in the Texas ANG qualified to fly the technically challenging F-102: the first “strategic jet fighter” to carry nuclear missiles. The F-102 was apparently one of the most challenging fighters because required the pilot to operate a sophisticated interception radar while simultaneous flying said plane. Quite a few student & qualified pilots died attempting to master the F-102. By the time he qualified & volunteered for Vietnam, the USAF shifted to F-104.

+Became governor of Texas by beating an extremely popular, intelligent and charismatic Rice University graduate by the name of Ann Richards.

+Used drugs? So did Mr. Obama.

+Elected president twice despite having the full force of the LEFT (e.g., MSM, Legal Establishment, Academic Establishment, Billionaire Leftists, etc.) against him

+While president: (a) His tax-cuts have been credited for turning around a Recession Economy he inherited from Clinton & further aggravated by 9/11. (b) The “Roberts” Supreme Court has returned to the “Constitutional” Realm. (c) His ostensibly unpopular policies have prevented another 9/11 from occurring over the past 6 years- but that's debatable.

Typical Phylo
Yeah, Phylo, if someone disagrees with you it's because they don't know everything you do. Typical liberal crap. "Most of his critics, like you, know nothing about him..." And how is it, precisely, that you have been able to determine what your opponent knows about him?

Give it a rest. "Writes like a dream." Laughable Obama-worship.

Demosthenes
Congrats on your being awarded a scientific grant! That's huge!

This guy is a moron
But, darn, he sure is pretty, isn't he? He's WORSE than John Silky Pony Edwards in that regard -- pretty but no substance.

Heck -- this guy isn't NEAR ready to be president. He just wants to make nice with the rest of the world and throw out all those "stupid old diplomatic rules."

If this idiot gets in, even as VP, the US constantly having egg on its face is going to be the least of our worries.

phylo is either uneducate
Did the leaders of the Amer Rev meet with KIng Geo III.
Did Madison meet with the King prior to War of 1812
Did Lincoln prior to the outbreak of violence meet with the leaders of the seccession.


Did Chamberlein and the prime minister meet with Htiler at Munich. Yes. And it was recorded that Hitler after they left stated what weaklings they were. A bunch of wimps.

Did FDR meet with the Emperor of Japan prior to the outbreak of hostilities.

Did Harry Truman with with STalin when the Berlin WAll went up.

I have made my point. As Krautheimer points these kinds of meetings are not some romance where you are going to seduce someone with sweet tallk. These meetings for the most part are the end product of a process.

So, TH attracts people in additon to us wise ones, people of little education and who just shoot with thoughts of a 6 yr old.

Additional thoughts:

Even the weakling Carter did not meet with Khomeni when he declared war on us(taking an embassy is an act of war). HE attemtped to bribe Iran with arms. They laughed at him

The Iranians thought Reagan some madman and qucikly released the hostages.

But then Reagan had a relapse and using Col North attempted to make nice nice with the Iranians by bargaining arms for the Hostages.

In foregin policy, you need stenght and convince your opponents that you are willing to use force. It is that what earns the respect and if thata occurs that one can have meetings.

Demosthenes
Bush wouldn't have accomplished any of those things, including his SAT scores, if he wasn't the son of one of the most powerful men in the country.

Obama rose up out of NOTHING on his own merits.

And if it were up to Bush Roberts and Alito would have been replaced by Harriet Miers and Alberto Gonzalez.

Laughable.

Phylo out.

Halo: Get a life
When you are making love to your partner and in state of ectasy, are you screaming: IT IS THE ZIONISTS WHO ARE EVIL.

I dont know maybe it is turn on for your partner. To each his own. But variety is the spice of life and so might think of trying other things to get your juices going.

Obama not wrong
I am not an Obama fan. But his answer was not wrong just because Charles Krauthammer says so. A person who feels he can't be out-talked by tinhorn terrorists or dictators has every right to feel confident in speaking to them.

It was Hillalry who feels she needed all kinds of setup protection before she spoke with an adversary. That doesn't sound very presidential to me.

phylo is out of his depth
he is impressed that Obama rose from nothing.

WE can say that about al Capone, Hitler and bunch of other jerks.

IT is totally irrelevant. It is one's competence to lead a country whether had a silver spoon or rose from nothing such as Lincoln.

So one wonders what kind of eduation Phylo is received. Nonsense in, nonsense out.

Bush is stupid. When is the last time Phylo drove a jet at 700 mph. When is the last time Phylo received an MBA from Yale.

Bush in inarticulate. Helen Keller could not talk very well either,

So what.

People who have nothing useful to say as Phylo think engaging in ad homs is the sign of knowledge. Monkeys chatter; phylo chatters. I learn nothing from both.

Obama appeal
Actually, I think the democrats who favor Obama would also favor Martin Sheen, but they would think Sheen has more experience.

ON THE OTHER HAND...
Is there anything more important than closing our borders, to prevent criminals, terrorists, nuclear bombs getting through?

IF SO, WHY DON'T THE MEDIA SHOUT ABOUT THAT EVERY DAY, 24/7....?????

halo: Get a life
it is not my fantasy that brought forth the comment; it is you rone note song. You are obsessed to the point that you lose any power to persuade.

rob
Well, satire has its place.

I think Mr. Krauthammer misjudges...
...the Left. In my opinion Obama made points with the base and Queen Hillary lost them. This may not evidence itself immediately but when we, finally, get to the primaries her remark about him being irresponsible for wanting to talk will haunt her. I realize the context was regarding talks in the first year but that accuracy will be swept under the rug.

The Left is big on this "If only we would talk" business and anyone showing any signs of reluctance to "talk" will have that used against them with great glee by the opposition.

Rational people understand that talking is only effective when done with other rational people, both Queen Hillary and Mr. Obama know this. She was trying to demonstrate experience, he was trying to garner votes.

Queen Hillary may well find herself in the position of accepting second fiddle, VP, instead of offering it to Obama and this may well be one of the sound bits that brings it about.

No, Mr. Obama won this particular round, it just may not be apparent yet.

Funniest Line of the Day Polls Now Open
And the nominees are...

HalO, for: "The Nazis and German Zionists got along pretty good, though."

Phylo Se Fizer, for: "I think Obama is right to say he'd be willing to meet with these rogue leaders if for no other reason then to give them a stern lecture and to draw hard lines for acceptable behavior."

Pianogirl, for: "Come join the Ron Paul revolution!"

Vote now!

Oh Bama.
How about a follow up question:

Would you meet with South Carolina's Grand Master of the KKK during the first year of your presidency in order to help bring healing and resolution to the many historical differences and grievances between whites and blacks?

What a proud moment of being a "uniter" I'm sure he'd feel about being on the front cover of KKK quarterly with the headline:

"We've Won Recognition and Legitimacy!! See, We Were Right All Along!"

jimbo
having recently moved sc aftger spending 10 plus years there, I don't recall at anytime the klan was much of a force. Their last attempt at publicity was over the confederate flag coming off the capitol dome. BTW much to my surprise when visiting the upper peninsula of mich it was pointed out to me where the klan used to burn crosses and at that time the population was primarily immigrant miners

hey robert
I am waiting for your apology that one cannot be tried for obstruction of justice and perjury if one does so in a civil case.

Either you did not read the posts or you are not a gentleman.

sfasu7392
I think what obama epitimizes is why the blacks love the dims. The dims are pushing us towards socialism. The dims contrinually preach that it is not your fault you fail, but don't worry we are here to save you. The myriad of the great society programs all came with no strings attached and thus no accountibility. Since the libs and the dims have fostered this notion of no responsibility, and the breakdown of the black family unit continues , it is easy to see why blacks support the dims and their rush to socialism. Obama promises more govt handouts as the only prescription fight poverty. Like crack addicts, black organizations believe this is the way to save their organizations and thus preach why govt programs can't end. Relying on the govt to save you just promotes dependcy on the govt

After these Obama Bombs...
...and I'm sure there will be plenty more, the race is still young!

But do you think that Hillary is scratching her head and wondering, "Hmm.....do I want this naive and irresponsible speaking man as my running mate?"

Hitlary is shrewd, everything she does and says is 100% calculated and polled before she even displays it in public. So, do you think she still will have Obama as her VP?

Will she parade him around like a trained bear for the public to see in order to winnow the black vote? Will she muzzle him and not let him make a move and say a word without her approval?
Because honestly, that's exactly what she would do so he won't muck her up.

Hillary has to be wondering if this guy is an assest or a liability by now. If so, who will be her running mate? The Breck Girl?

robert
I dont feel like going thru all the effort to copy the posts I documented; it is on the blog where this came up on the article on Bush has a 2nd chance.

If you are afraid to look there, let me know and I will post it here.

Hey, Are you an honest man. What about $100 bet I am right and you are wrong. Be honest and take the bet now before you look on the Blog.

To quote an old cliche, put up or shut up. And the worst thing about you is not that you could be wrong; we are all fallible. It took me 2 minutes to research this. And one would think you would could done the same. You are not the infallible Pope.

robert

just to tease you, 4 people went to jail for the exact same thing Clinton did.
Read.

Good critiques...
Walt said "Here is a person with no international/diplomatic experience, no business experience, no legislative experience, no economic experience, mo military knowledge/experience, etc.".

But enough about Bush. What about Obama?

DocNoleCat: I think it's a 3-way tie!!!!


HalZero always get nominated! But I don't think HalZero actually knows he so ridiculously funny.

Phylo Se Fizer always gets a laugh for his logic and "thought process" that goes something like this, "7, 3, M, 2, Pink...."

Pianogirl, well, "Come join the Ron Paul revolution..." ??? Can she get nominated again for saying the same stupid thing several times...and I do mean SEVERAL times? Does that count?

And wait, roberto has weighed in, so there is a very good chance that it might just be a 4-way tie.




Obama an empty suit? Please.
It's clear to those of us who have read Obama's books that anyone saying this guy is an empty suit doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. The guy is not only highly intelligent, he's remarkably knowledgeable about all of the major political issues, he's eloquent, thoughtful, kind, humble, good natured, mature, ambitious,tough, curious, well-read, and most importantly of all: he learns from his mistakes; a quality we have been sorely lacking over the last six and a half years.

I would love to see how all of you who call him an empty suit stack up against his accomplishments. Most of you can't even come up with an original thought or write a decent sentence; all you do is spout the talking points you've heard on Sean Hannity's show.

Phylo out.

Krauthammer posts an excellent article

as he always does. Brilliant!

I had considered ronpaul to the Conservative's counterpart to the dems Joe Biden, but I just may have to re-think that one!

Obama's comment was as ridiculous and dangerous as ronpaul's comment about 9-11 during the Republican debate several weeks ago.






phylo
how does he learn from for in the mouth disease. 11 trillion dollars (11,000,000,000,000.00) have gone into poverty programs and oblahma says more spending on poverty is needed. Life is full of people who can claim many accomplishments but that doesn't mean they should be president. Walt Disney was a man of immense accomplishment but not one ever talked about his being a political leader. The dims biggest shortcoming: they tell us they want to be president, they tell us that pushing more failed govt programs will solve the problems facing america. Not one has articulated the believe in america nor do they see the goodness in americans and or will concede that america has been a force for good throughout it's history. We may not be perfect, but we are better than anything in second place. I can't trust a politician that is driven by raw power. I want a president who believes in the greatness of this country and will defend it. Sadly these dims lack that vision

ROBERT PAY UP
I NOTICED YOUR LAST POST THAT YOU TRIED TO GET OUT OF IT.

FACTS: OF COURSE THE GOVT BRINGS CRIMINAL CHARGES. NOTHING NEW HERE.

YOU STATED THAT IN A CIVIL SUITE, IF PERJURY, THERE CANT BE A PERJURY PROSECUTION. WE ARE NOT ALL DOWN UNDER; OF COURSE A PRIVATE PERSON CANNOT BRING PERJURY CHARGES. LET US GET PAST 1ST GRADE.

BUT THE POINT YOU TRIED TO MAKE AND ARE NOW WEASLING ON IS THAT IF ONE PERJURES IN CIVIL CASE, THEN THE GOVT HAS NO AUTHORITY TO BRING PERJURY. OTHERWISE, WHAT THE HECK WAS THE POINT OF THE DISCUSSION. THIS CAME ABOUT BECAUSE I POINTED OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIBBY, SANDY BERGER AND HOW CLINTON WAS TREATED. AND YOU ANSWERED BACK IN SOME LEGALISTIC SENSE THAT WELL THERE WAS NO WAY CLINTON COULD BE CHARGED BY THE GOVT FOR PERJURY IN A CIVIL TRIAL BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WERE NOT INVOLVED.

AND YOU FURTHER WEASLED OUT BY STATING THAT ALL WAS POSSIBLE WAS CIVIL CONTEMPT BY THE JUDGE WHICH DID HAPPEN. BUT THE GOVT COULD HAVE BROUGHT PERJURY CHARGES JUST AS IN THE CASES BELOW AND IN LIBBY WHERE THEY DID AND BERGER WHERE THEY DID NOT.


WHAT YOU FORGET THE PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS INVOLVED IN ANY PROCEEDING INCLUDING CIVIL. IT IS FOR PEOPLE'S BENEFIT THAT PERJURY IN CIVIL CASES DOES NOT GO UNPUNISHED. IF WE DONT DO THAT THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING JUSTICE IF ONE CAN SUBVERT IT.

SO COUGH UP AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT YOU MIGHT STUDIED LAW IN YOUR TRAINING, BUT YOU GOT A SUPERFICIAL VIEW. I DID NOT GO TO CLASSES BUT WAS MY OWN LAWYER IN BOTH CRIMINAL AND CIVIL CASES TO SAVE MYSELF MONEY AND IF I WERE A WISE GUY LIKE YOU WHO DID NOT DO HIS RESEARCH I WOULD HAVE BEEN UP THE CREEK.

ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG. BE A MAN. NO ONE IS PERFECT.



robert pay up as did Rivera, you misrepr
Below is the text of the article showing where persons served jail time in sex harrassment cases--civil cases for obstrucing just and perjury

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_199812/ai_n8808768


ROBERT ; MY COMMENTS ARE IN BRACKETS

FindArticles > Human Events > Dec 4, 1998 > Article > Print friendly
Convictions prove sex-perjury is major crime

Murdock, Deroy
How did Geraldo Rivera lose a pot of cash to attorney Victoria Toensing? The mustachioed interviewer and rabid apologist for President Clinton promised on CNBC that "if anyone could find another instance of a federal perjury prosecution for a sex lie, especially one told in a dismissed civil case-in other words, a case just like the prosecution of Bill Clinton-we would pay $10,000."




Rivera suggested that only a supposedly sex-crazed prosecutor like Kenneth Starr would recommend legal action against President Clinton for his alleged dishonesty in the Paula Jones sexual harassment suit and the Monica Lewinsky sex-and-lies scandal. But when Toensing told Rivera about Dr. Barbara Battalino, Geraldo paid up.

In a case with eerie parallels to the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Veterans Administration psychiatrist Barbara Battalino [see HUMAN ET, Aug. 21, 1998, page 1] was prosecuted for denying that she performed oral sex on Vietnam veteran Edward I. Arthur on June 27, 1991. A patient of Battalino, he later sued her for sexual harassment and medical malpractice. Arthur happened to audio-tape some 25 hours of phone conversations with Battalino, including one in which she scolded him for discussing the time they "played doctor" before their medical relationship had ended. As Battalino said: "The thing was that we were supposed to not have had sex until after . . . I can't believe you would divulge that"

-Tapes Proved Battalino Lied

Using these tapes, Bill Clinton's Justice Department charged Battalino last April with endeavoring "to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice in connection with a pending proceeding before a court of the United States;' namely, the lawsuit in which Battalino falsely denied having sex with Edward Arthur in her federal office.

[NOTE; BATTLAINO WAS SUED IN A CIVIL CASE JUST AS CLINTON. IT IS NOT CLEAR WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THE CIVIL CASE WAS. BUT WHAT IT IS CLEAR AFTER THE PERJURY WAS DISCOVERED IN A CIVIL MATTER, HE WAS PROSECUTED FOR PERJURY.]


Oddly enough, no claque of Battalino groupies chanted, "So what if she lied under oath? She's a great shrink." Instead, she pleaded guilty and is suffering the consequences of her misdeeds. She was fined $3,500 and sentenced to a year's probation, including six months of house arrest monitored by electronic bracelet She also was removed from her federal job. "I don't have the ability anymore to practice medicine;' she told the `"Today" show's Matt Lauer. "I have a law degree I cannot use.... It's been very disturbing."

Battalino is not alone. As Sam Donaldson reported on ABC's "20/20" on November 11, former postal worker Diane Parker falsely denied taking a personal trip with Kevin Collins, a subordinate who sued the Postal Service in 1992, claiming she had sexually harassed him. After Collins won his case, Parker's false witness in a related civil deposition bought her a 13-month jail sentence. "It's sad;' she lamented in a Marianna, Fla., federal prison. "Everything you work for is gone" she added, including the house she surrendered to her creditors.

[THE DEFENDANT NOT ONLY LOST THE CIVIL CASE BUT WAS PROSECUTED FOR PERJURY IN THAT CASE]

Former University of South Carolina basketball coach Pam Parsons filed a $75-million civil suit against Time, Inc.-publisher of Sports Illustrated-after the magazine alleged in February 1982 that she had sex with a woman's basketball player she coached. In a sworn deposition, Parsons falsely denied having sex with the athlete. After Time won the case, Parsons was prosecuted for perjury. In 1985, she and her lover were sentenced to four months in a minimum-security prison.

[ THIS IS NOT EVEN A SEX HARRASSMENT CASE. IT WAS A SUIT FOR LIBEL. AND SHE LOST THE LIBEL CASE WHICH MUST HAVE COST HER A PRETTY PENNY, PUNISHMENT ENOUGH. BUT THE FEDERAL GOVT PROSECUTED HER FOR PERJURY. AND NOTICE IN A SWORN DEPOSITION SHE LIED JUST AS IN THE CLINTON MATTER WHERE HE LIED IN A DEPOSITION]

These four women belie the Clintonite argument that perjury is no big deal, especially about sex. They lied under oath about sex in civil cases and were condemned to between 4 and 13 months in federal detention.

Meanwhile, the cognoscenti demand that President Clinton avoid the same punishment for allegedly committing the same crime. The American people insist that their Rogue-inChief walk away. And, like a chorus line of Rockettes, America's feminists high-kick in agreement.

This double standard would make sense only if Bill Clinton were coronated as King William I and allowed to serve for life in the re-named Royal Palace on Pennsylvania Avenue. Does America deserve a monarchy where sovereign immunity would shield rulers from the laws used to jail their subjects?

Conversely, if President Clinton gets away with perjuring himself in a sexual harassment case and before a federal criminal grand jury, why should Americans bother to tell the truth in divorce, paternity and harassment cases? After all, they're often "just about sex."

Mr. Murdock is an MSNBC columnist and president of Loud & Clear Communications, a marketing and media consultancy firm based in New York City

Copyright Human Events Publishing, Inc. Dec 4, 1998
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved


Scott K, you're wrong
Immigration needs to be the biggest issue in the next election. It is Amnesty. If the repubs focus on any other issue, they will lose, they will lose long and hard.

A vote for a dem is a vote for instant, across the board, and irreversable amnesty. 100 million more Americans using gasoline and social services - and that's before the food shortages begin.

ROBERT AND RIVERA
NOTICE THAT GERALDO RIVERA IS A MAN;HE DID NOT TRY TO WEASLE OUT OF PAYING UP BEFORE HE RESEARCHED. HE PAID $10,000 FOR SAME BRASHNESS YOU EXHIBITED. EMULATE HIM. DONT WEASLE IF YOU WANT RESPECT.

do you know how to read
Rivera> IFyou read the first lines of link, you have known what I was referring to. Read the first two lines. It did not require you to watCh him ten years ago. YOU ARE NOT A CAREFUL READER WHICH IS WHY YOU GET YOURSELF IN TROUBLE

Secondly, it is irrelevant that Govt entered as party. Why did you ignore the other cases. Do you think Time magazine had the govt enter as party in a libel suite. The person lied in the Time libel suit where the govt was not a party. That was not even a sex harrassment case; it was a case where the person sued Time for accusing the person of having an affair with student.
And they lost, And then the govt brought perjury charges.

Address that issue rather playing games by ignoring data that is crucial



So how does one take you serously, You read one case AND ignore the others,

wild west
wildwest: "Not one has articulated the believe in america nor do they see the goodness in americans and or will concede that america has been a force for good throughout it's history."

Phylo: Clearly you haven't read Obama's books. The pride he feels for America is an inspiration. Even my Republican lawyer brother (who read parts of The Audacity of Hope) agrees with that.

Please wildwest, have the courage to make your own decisions about Obama. Don't let these charlatans like Krauthammer brainwash you. Expose yourselves to his actual thoughts. Have the courage to read his views in his own words, rather than the words of the Republican spinmiesters.

Go check out one his books at the library. You'll be impressed. I promise. He might even convince you to think differently about our policies, and the direction this country is headed in. Oh noooo. The Horror.

Phylo out.

Robert AND common sense
It is irrelevant that Clinton did not lie to the state as was the case in the Times libel suite. The govt was not a party in a libel suit against a magazine.

Under your wishful thinking someone can go to court, swear under oath(why swear under oath) lie and subvert justice and the state has no interest.

The state always has interest. The court is an arm of the state. And if anyone subverts justice such as lying under oath in any kind of case, they have broken the law; in this case, the perjury law, That s why under oath; otherwise no point to have an oath,

THe govt of course has discetion on whether they would bring charges as always, In Clinton;s case since he was the President, his justice dept did not bring charges, In Libby's case the special prosecutor did. In the Berger case which involved actual crimes, the Justice decided on a slap on the wrist.

Not very complicated. You come across as foolish to think that under oath in a civil case you can perjure, obstruct justice(such as hide documents requested in a depositon) and walk away scott free,

I dont advise you to try it.

More free education. The whole purpose of using an oath in any kind of case kind is a warning to the taker of the oath that they are subject to perjury crime if the lie. That is so obvious. We would not need oaths otherwise. As simple as apple pie.

OF course dont take my word; how are you going to get around The Time iibel case.

What is your evidence
You stated the govt entered as a party to the first sex harr case in the article. Can you give me a reference. Curious. Of course irrelevant because clearly not the case in the Time libel case. I just want to make sure you are not making it up.

Len, Len, Len... Don't you know that

trying to have a logical, reasonable debate or disucssion with roberto is like trying to have a logical, reasonable discussion or debate with a sidewalk??????

Roberto is one of those who has a fixed false belief system that is resistant to any and all reason or confrontation with actual fact.




phlo
Come clean: Are you having an affair with Obama.

A charlitan is liar like those who sell snake oil.

Kraut expressed an opinion. Do you have an evidence he misstated facts, That you dont share his opinion is not evidence of quakery. Only in tyrannical states can we accuse people of quackery because we dont like their opinions. We are fortunate you dont have power because anyone who disagrees as in tyranical states will be accused of fraud and off to the gallows

You come across as his lover and if you are then I can understand your efforts and i forgive you; evrything is fair in love and war

robert one question
Keep it short. Expalin to my limited mind how your reasoning and criticism of me deals with the TIME libel case in which the one who sued Time for libel perjured herself in this case and then the federal govt prosecuted for perjury. The govt was not a party to the Time libel case.

Please help me out. WAs the judge some idiot who let the govt get away with this or What.

i am waiting. Stick to that one issue

Hmmm
Phylo Se Fiser writes: Friday, July, 27, 2007 12:48 PM

"Bush wouldn't have accomplished any of those things, including his SAT scores, if he wasn't the son of one of the most powerful men in the country."

He cheated? Someone took all his exams and flew his jet for him? His dad fixed everything and bought off all of the NG men who saw him fly the plane?

robert and nexus
A new word. So if chat with you at macdonalds on line we have a nexus.

I dont what it means.

But let me give you try. The govt has an interest in sex harrassment. After all the govt passed the laws. Clinton obstructed jsutice and perjured under these laws passed by the govt that allows private citizens to sue.

Hence, the govt has a nexus, whatever that means, in seeing that perjury in cases involving rights to sue under federal law is harsly dealt with.

Does that sound reasonable.

robert dont run
I am waiting for your explanation of the Time libel case described in the article. All your words and theory are of little interest until you explain that case tom

It seems odd that you purposely avoid. Facts are bothersome or do you overlook it. I have mentioned it few times.

Please explain why in libel case against a private magazine where perjury was committed, the perjurer was prosecuted.

Please please. I want to learn

SFASU7392: Well said. AND, probably

had a great deal to do with the fact that "Teddy The Swimmer" never paid the piper for Mary Jo's death.


Obama?
Obama is less qualified to be President than the manager of your local supermarket and if not for a bunch of silly Libs wanting an Affirmative Action President he would have less chance than any supermarket manager

Obama is also a "usta wuz Muslim".
Muslims have a poor sense of humor about rejecting Allah.
That is not likely to pull many Muslem votes.

Obama has not had his ainal exam yet.
Aside from being a Do Nothing Senator, we don't know much about him.

Hillary?
MUCH dirt under the carpet.

I wish the Dems would come up with a viable candidate.
We may need an alternative to these RINO frontrunners we have.

phylo
anyone screaming racism exists be cause he alledgedly couldn't get a taxi and claims that more money is needed to fight poverty in america is nothing but a fraud. Obama merely echoes the styandard lib line that america is the problem and govt programs are the solution.

Krauthammer
Robert,you poor delusional thing. Since when is stealing Gov't documents considered misconduct?Since when is destroying said documents misconduct? You really need to set down the hookah,and lay off the kool-aid.Mr.Burglar should have been tried,if nothing else. Guaranteed had that been a Repub.,you and your ilk would be screaming at the top of your lungs for at least a hanging.

phylo
you wrote:"It's clear to me that Republicans are far more afraid of Obama then they are of Hillary."

After reading your posts for a long time I was surprised to see you finally got something right! We are afraid. We are afraid that this no-experience, no-qualification political hack might actually be elected POTUS by you braindead, moronic libdolts. As bad as Hitlery would be (and she would be bad) this guy would be even worse! But you guys don't care about things like qualifications or experience and how a lack thereof will hurt the country. You just want to elect someone - anyone - whose is not Republican regardless of any other factors. You guys are pathetic. We can only hope phylo is out - out of here cause we already know he's out of his mind.

phylo
you wrote: "Bush wouldn't have accomplished any of those things, including his SAT scores, if he wasn't the son of one of the most powerful men in the country."

Hey meat - read a book or something. When Bush got into school his Daddy was non-descript congressman - not one of the most powerful men in the country. I won't even get into those Dims who were helped more by their family status. The fact that you clowns denigrate GWBs degrees and ANG service and ability to fly F-104s while swooning over Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland is simply laughable. LOL. You are a dunce boy.

robert wow
I am beginning to worry about your sincerity when you state the American people forgave Clinton. That has nothing to do with technical question we are discussing; and the fact that you drag in something totally irrelevant makes we wonder where you are coming from. We are trying to deal with a technical problem. By the way, Clinton did not return for office after the affair so we dont know if he would have been re-elected. It is believed by many the Clinton Scandal hurt Gore. But that is neither here nor there, So why bring it up.



First you reference to the Wash post was no good Do you have a cite for the libel case

Now to your argument.

You make a disntinctoin whether a witness lies,a defendant lies, or a plaintiff lies. Under this novel theory a defendant can lie and walk a way; a plaintiff can be charged and supposedly a witness cha be charged.

Please show me this citation, It makes no sense.


I have to repeat again. ThE Congress is part of the Govt(hence lying to congress is subject to perjury) and for the nth time, the Courts are part of the govt. Do you get that.
Hence, to perjure in a court room is a crime. The judge cannot become the prosecutor but he can recommend to the prosecutor to try it. OR it can such publicity that the prosecutor does it on his on.
But the only reason the prosecutor can proceed is because a crime has been committed. And lying under oath in a court room is a crime. That is definition of perjury. It is not lying to your wife. It is lying under oath and since you are so hot in the pants about govt; it is lying under oath not TO the govt only but lying under oath period and to add to that lying under oath in a court of law is in a govt operaton which has interest in justice.

Under your statements PAula Jones the plaintiff in Clinton case could go to jail for perjury but Clinton the defendant can lie and not go to jail for perjury. I would have to wonder how anyone except a retarded person can make sense of that.

In many cases the prosecutor will use discertion and not prosecute; after all if you are convicted for murder why bother with perjury.

Clinton was not prosecuted for obstruction of justice and perjury because it was thought best for the country not to do this and that is all. Those other poor characters in the post that Geraldo who paid up for not knowing what he was talking about did pay the price for lying in a court proceeding
mainly not even in court but in depositons.

Give me the citation to the time libel case.


Play: Robt and his client

Client: I am being sued for false advertisements by some private non-profit group.
Is it okay to obstruct justice, shred documents, and lie when in court under oath.

Robert: Don't worry; you can perjure yourself all you want. They cant touch you.

5 years later: Robert is sued by his client for malpractice.

Defining Robert as what?
Robert writes:

The American people rejected Mr. Starr's conclusions and their represetntatives did as well....

__________________
The above condemns you as either a pscopath or learning disabled.

Why: 1. The jury let OJ Simpson off, He is a sweet man just like clinton.

2. Many juries acquitted white people in the past who crimially assualted blacks. Just like Clinton was forgiven.


So whether Clinton got pass is quite irrelevant of how he should be judged. By the way, his representatives did impeach him in the house; not quite let him off. Only the 2nd president to be impeached.

He also paid off PAula Jones a million dollars, And a court found him in contempt for obstructing justice,

And how nice for you to get on your knees here and give him your excuses.

None of this had to do with the technical question. The fact that you bring it up tells me you are either a silly hack or learning disabled.

I quit. All others should also and then you can play with yourself.

Bye Bye

Robert
Great logic there Roberto. If as you say W is the worst President in history, and history will judge that - not you - then by all means we should elect another bad one because after all - W sucked. This how you defend my statements about B. Hussien Obama by taking a shot at Bush. You guys are pathetic.

Phylo
Hey dude don't join the debating team atyour high school anytime soon OK? You're a joke as a debater. In one post you say you read one of Obama's books and then in another you tell people to read his bookS - when you yourself have not done so. Then later on you tell us how your Republican bro-in-law (who is also a lawyer!) read PARTS of Obama's BOOK so we should accept his opinions relayed to us by you. ROFLMAO!!!

Roberto
Oops 102's. Way to logically dispute my argument.

Nobama
Why doesan't Obama start his world tour of dictators and despots with a camping trip in the hills bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan where he can talk with Osama bin Laden and get this whole terrorist misunderstanding worked out in about five minutes. Puhleeze.

First, he says he won't retaliate if two American cities are nuked. I understand: no need to upset the people who just nuked us. Better to talk to them and try and understand why they did it.

Next, its sex ed for kindergartners. Now there's a winning general election issue if ever I saw one.

And now its meetings with five rogue leaders--Castro (take that you Florida Cubans), Ahmadinajed (in your face Israel, holocaust schmolocaust; good bye Jewish vote), Assad (screw you, people of Lebanon; I want to build on that fabulous Nancy Pelosi success), Chavez (if he's in our hemisphere, how bad could he be?), and Il (We'll just talk and the nukes will go away)--all within the first year and all without condition.

Talk about going down in flames. With this turkey, the Dems won't win a single state.


put up or shut up
Are you willing to wager $1000 on this. If you are, we would have to figure out a way to collect from one another since I don't trust you and I assume you do not trust me.

The question is this:

1. If in a civil proceeding in which the justice dept is not a party and a party or witness, this includes witnesses, plaintiffs, defendants obsruct justice,
hide documents, or perjure themselves, can any of these people be prosecuted by the state for crimes of perjury of obstruction of justice.

2. It is irrelevant of how this comes about. For example, the justice dept may take note from publicity about the event and on its own file crimnal charges.

The judge may recommend to the justice dept that look into the matter. He can't order it because prosecution for a crime is always at the discretion of the prosecetor..

3. Under our laws, could Clinton have been prosecuted for perjury if the justice dept decided to go ahead.(Does not mean they would win, but it does mean that Judge could not throw out the case on the grounds that Clinton did not lie to a federal official.

That is it, Put up or shut up. And I will find to put the money in escrow and we will have to figure out how to get an expert we both trust.

No other converation.

RObtert wake up
You say the stupidess things. You say the Court is not part of the govt. It is part of the justice department.

How did you graduate anything.

The govt, if you read the Costition, consists of 3 parts. And there are 3 separate articles dealing with each part.

The executive
The legislative
The Judiciary

The legislative makes the laws, the executive enforces the law, the the courts make a judgement of whether the law was broken an/or whether the laws are constitional. The Court is not Microsoft; it is one part of the GOVT

Setting fire to a building is a CRIME. Lying under oath is a crime no matter where it occurs and to whom it occurs.

you dont believe the obvioius so take the bet.

IGNORE ROBERT--HE IS A PHONY
THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR ROBERT. HE IS INCOMPETENT. HE WRITES LIKE A PSYCHOPATH WITH NO CONCERN FOR THE TRUTH.

BELOW ARE THE FACTS ON PERJURY. A PSCHOPATH DOES NOT NEED FACTS.




TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 79 > § 1621
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§ 1621. Perjury generally
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Whoever—
(1) having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or
(2) in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true;

is guilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. This section is applicable whether the statement or subscription is made within or without the United States.
Search this title:


Len comment: If you can read, it states taking any oath in which an oath is required such as a civil trial.
This is from the Federal Law.


____________________________

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/white_collar_crimes/perjury.htm
riminal Law - White Collar Crimes - Perjury

  Page 1 of 4


What is perjury?

Perjury is the "willful and corrupt taking of a false oath in regard to a material matter in a judicial proceeding". It is sometimes called "lying under oath"; that is, deliberately telling a lie in a courtroom proceeding after having taken an oath to tell the truth. It is important that the false statement be material to the case at hand—that it Could affect the outcome of the case. It is not considered perjury, for example, to lie about your age, unless your age is a key factor in proving the case.

Perjury can be used as a threat. Although it is a very serious crime under state and Federal laws, and while prosecutors often threaten prosecution, the number of actual prosecutions for perjury is tiny.

Perjury prosecutions stemming from civil lawsuits are particularly rare. This is because it is difficult to prove that someone is intentionally misstating a material fact, rather than simply testifying honestly from faulty memory.

len comment: dont get carried away by the word 'rare"; that is beside the point.



_______________
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/perjury.html
Perjury
Perjury statutes in many states make it a crime to knowingly lie after taking an oath to tell the truth, such as when testifying in court or communicating through certain legal documents. The falsehood must usually be material to the matter at issue, though perjury can also be committed by simply signing a document with the knowledge that it contains false assertions.
For example, while completing a sworn affidavit during child support proceedings in family court, Dan purposefully understates his monthly income by $2000, signs the document, and files it with the judge's clerk.

Len Comment: So when if God forbid you have children do what is described in the last paragraph above in a CIVIL proceeding and are charged with perjury, SCREAM that they do not what they are doing.

_______________________________
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1424501.stm
In the above, the person, no less a Lord of the realm in England was accused by the English tabloids of having an affair. That is not a crime in England. It differs from being accused of sex harrassment which law allows a person to sue. LIBEL is a common law issue.

Anyway, he won millions from the newspaper in a libel case. Nothing to do with Govt. Ten years later the truth came out that he perjured and obstructed justice by getting people to lie for him.

He was tried for perjury. And jailed with heavy fines.

Note: Clinton's perjury was worse because in the Clinton case the govt has an interest in that federal statutory laws authorize people to sue under that law. Whereas in libel the govt has no particular interest except to judge the case. But if justice is perverted, then it is a govt issue.



Strike Three
I did not have a chance to read all the comments but three quick points:

Conducting negotiations with a country (Iran) is not the same as having a summitt meeting.

This is BO's third strike. In the first debatte he was asked "Who are America’s three greatest allies in this world?" Right off the top of your head, you probably said some combination of Israel, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Sout Korea even France. Or even one of dozens of other countries who are our allies.

BO addressed this same question and responded thusly:
1) European Union/NATO (yes, he actually used the two interchangeably throughout his answer; these are alliances, not allies)
2) Japan
3) That’s about it, really. China isn’t really an ally or an enemy.

The EU/NATO as an ally. Care to name any countries in those alliances there, BO? At least he eventually realized that China, although at least a country, is not an ally of the US.

As far as Bush, even if you do judge him to be an idiot, I prefer the idiot who actually strikes back at our enemies who want to kill us over the idiots who would surrender to them.

Sandy Berger
Reference Clyde's post:

As someone who has held security clearances with the military up to and including Top Secret w/ access to critical nuclear weapons design information (TSCNWDI)and has served in various military capacities around the world I can tell you that anyone who has access to classified documents and information signs an agreement with the US governement not to handle them irresponsibly (including not removing them from positive control of the agency they are entrusted to, in this case the National Archives), to not detroy them without going through the proper accounting procedures and to not reveal the information contained therein to unautorized individuals. Berger had a security clearance and had signed such an agreement. Absent any other circumstances, this was sufficient for him to do jail time. Ditto with the Senate staffers who leaked information about our clandestine monitoring of telephone calls made to known terrorist phone numbers overseas. If these people had been, say, officers in the US Army they would be in jail, period.

Man, I can't believe that roberto and

len are still at it today... Whew!

Yes, len, I warned you yesterday, roberto does not quite have it together...and at the very least, he's borderline illiterate, and some days he qualifies as a raving lunatic!

It's just amazing that he actually posts some of the things he posts.

And he keeps trying to convince us that he's some kind of high performance fighter pilot. LOL




PITA
You people carrying on your personal arguements having nothing to do with the original article are a pain in the rear. Trade e-mail addresses and argue privately.

Art: EXCUSE ME???

That kind of thing happens around here... Especially when a column was posted the day or two before.

Don't like it.....






Krauthammer
Markenoff&SFASU7392: Thanks for the response on my post to the delusional one. I di'nt think one could just take off with gov't documents like he did.Makes me wonder why more was not done to him.I had read somewhere that he could get his clearance back at some point in time. I don't believe that would be a good thing to happen. God only knows what else he may try to spirit out.

Heat Rises Between Iraq PM and Petraeus

Is it not clear now that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s has no attentions of sharing power with the Sunnis? Do we have any choice but to recognize each group separately and stop pushing a strong federal government?

AP-A key aide says Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s relations with Gen. David Petraeus are so poor the Iraqi leader may ask Washington to withdraw the overall U.S. commander from his Baghdad post.

Iraq’s foreign minister calls the relationship “difficult.” Petraeus, who says their ties are “very good,” acknowledges expressing his “full range of emotions” at times with al-Maliki. U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, who meets with both at least weekly, concedes “sometimes there are sporty exchanges.”

It seems less a clash of personality than of policy. The Shiite Muslim prime minister has reacted most sharply to the American general’s tactic of enlisting Sunni militants, presumably including past killers of Iraqi Shiites, as allies in the fight against al-Qaida here.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/heat-rises-between-iraq-pm-and-petraeus

anne
re Robert: I waisted too much time

No one should ever respond to his posts


On the other hand, given he is off the wall, maybe we should respond here and there so does not feel so lonely and go out and shoot some people like in the VA school bsiness.

you do the math
does Obama win every state Kerry won against Bush in 2004 against
every Republican opponent? Probably. Does he win OH and FL?
Probably. Prediction - the military will break Democratic unless there
is a change of course in Iraq no matter who runs for each side.


everyoneslies
Believe me, the military will not break Democratic.
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