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Friday, December 15, 2006
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
What did the Iraq Study Group tell us?
by Charles Krauthammer
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As a result of the Iraq Study Group, President Bush has been given one last chance to alter course on Iraq. This did not, however, come about the way James Baker intended. It came about because the long-anticipated report turned out to be such a widely agreed-upon farce. From its wildly hyped, multiple magazine-cover rollout (Annie Leibovitz in Men's Vogue, no less) to its mishmash of 79 (no less) recommendations, the report has fallen so flat that the field is now clear for the president to recommend to a war-weary country something new and bold.

The ISG has not just been attacked by left and right, Democrat and Republican. It has invited ridicule. Seventy-nine recommendations. Interdependent, insists Baker. They should be taken as a whole. "I hope we don't treat this like a fruit salad and say, 'I like this but I don't like that.'" On the basis of what grand unifying vision? On the authority of what superior wisdom? A 10-person commission including such Middle East experts as Sandra Day O'Connor, Alan Simpson and Vernon Jordan?

This kind of bipartisan elder-statesmen commission is perfectly appropriate as a consensus-building exercise for, say, a long-range problem such as Social Security. It is a ludicrous mechanism for devising strategic changes in the middle of a war.

Its major recommendation of gradual retreat is unremarkable -- exactly what you'd expect from a committee whose objective is consensus. It reflects a certain conventional wisdom in Washington that the war is already lost. And if that were true, we should indeed be retreating. And the sooner the better, even more quickly than the ISG recommends.

But having told us that the price of leaving Iraq to chaos is unacceptably high, the commission never attempts to come up with a plan for actually succeeding. Its only new initiative is to go regional, and involve neighboring Syria and Iran.

Syria should stop infiltration, declares the report. And Iran ``should stem the flow of equipment, technology, and training to any group resorting to violence in Iraq.'' Yes, and obesity should be eradicated, bird flu cured, and traffic fatalities, particularly the multicar variety, abolished. Such fatuous King Canute pronouncements give the report its air of detachment from reality.

This holding back of the tides is to be accomplished by negotiations with the likes of Iran. Baker admits that Iranian representatives told the commission that they are unlikely to cooperate. But we must press on, Baker insists, because we will thus expose Iran as "a rejectionist nation" that is "not ... willing to help try and stabilize Iraq."

Now there's a diplomatic achievement: undermining our hard-earned agreement with the Europeans to make any future approach to Iran dependent on the suspension of uranium enrichment in order to ... demonstrate to the world that a country providing sophisticated weapons, roadside bombs and financial support to both sides of the civil war does not support stability there. Is there a sentient adult outside this commission who does not know that already?

A major objective of the New Diplomatic Offensive (as if pompous capitalization makes for substance) is to bring Arab-Israeli peace. Baker thinks that if only the Israelis would surrender to Arab demands, all would be well in the Middle East.

OK. Imagine that there is peace between Israel and the Arabs. No, imagine an even better solution from the Arab point of view -- an earthquake that tomorrow swallows Israel whole and sinks it (like Santorini, 1650 B.C.) into the Mediterranean. Does anyone imagine that the Shiites stop killing Sunnis? That al-Qaeda stops killing Americans? That Iran and Syria work any less assiduously to destabilize post-Saddam Iraq? It's these obvious absurdities that made the report so dismissible.

Now that these 10 establishment sages have labored mightily to produce a mouse, the president has one last chance to come forward with a new strategy.

He must do two things. First, as I've been agitating, establish a new governing coalition in Baghdad that excludes Moqtada al-Sadr, a cancer that undermines the Maliki government's ability to work with us. It is encouraging that the president has already begun such a maneuver by meeting with rival Shiite and Sunni parliamentary leaders. If we help produce a cross-sectarian government that would be an ally rather than a paralyzed semi-adversary of coalition forces, we should then undertake part two: "double down" our military effort. This means a surge in American troops with a specific mission: to secure Baghdad and (together with the support of the Baghdad government -- a sine qua non) suppress Sadr's Mahdi Army.

It is our last chance for success. Bush can thank the ISG and its instant irrelevance for making it possible.

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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A Cinderella story
"Now that these 10 establishment sages have labored mightily to produce a mouse..."

And the 10 sages have labored so hard to serve the 2 stepsisters, Iran and Syria, and I imagine we are left to believe that the fairy godmother will wave her magic wand and the coach will carry us into a princely kingdom where Israel is declared the wicked stepmother who disappears off the face of the map.

The Iraq Surrender Group..
has indeed lead the way for reform and America is ready for a change, but will not willingly abandon a victory.

The American public gave a narrow victory to the Democrats in the just-past election. We were fed up with business as usual. That feeling is directly translated from the war in Iraq and total cr*opla coming from Washington D.C. And I mean business-as-usual cr*pola.

America wants to win. Coddling foreign governments and surrender monkeys is annoying. America wants straight talk and decisive action. Plus we cannot understand how we can talk about insurgent funding from Iran and Syria, yet apparently do nothing to physically to stop it. How about closing the border for 3 months, no traffic in unless inspected?

How about the militas? Like we don't know where they are? We don't see their leaders making speeches and insighting riots? Take the leaders prisoner and hold them in Gitmo or some island totally incommunicado.

I know we are doing wonderful things for the locals like schools and clean water but we seem to be doing little to squelch the wacky leaders of the conflict. Round them up or just take them out. By the time you bomb the fourth new leader cooler heads will want to talk.

Talk is what the ISG folks did and we are laughing at them now. Why do you expect any different reaction from timid behavior in the war?

Better Be Right This Time
Now that Iraq is in chaos, maybe those Generals who said we needed to go in with more troops, the ones Rumsfeld ran off and dismissed, should be consulted with this time around. Add to the list of fairy tales: We could go back in time and ask a lot harder questions about post-war tactics, and make Rumsfeld listen to advice rather than just his own personal ideas. Dis-illusioned ranting aside, does anyone know what Robert Gates intends? And what about Abizaid and others insisting that more troops are not necessary?

When we get
a group of self-capitalizing oldpols gathered together like so many heifers in the stockyard, what are we to expect but moans and bellows? What fresh wind can emanate from that direction? This committee, as must have been expected, has re-invented the camel. Alas, there is one party in the relevant dispute that is quite at home with camels. Sort of makes us wonder if maybe there was just a little bias at play, here.

Baker, after all, is known to have ejaculated, “Phuq the Jews.” And his law firm is heavily committed as a lobbyist agency for certain non- Jewish- yet- somehow- Semitic Middle Eastern powers and interests. I’m sure he tried to be fair, though. Right? I’m think I’m sure. If not, why, then, the whole ISG would be an empty and pathetic farsi. That’s how it’s spelled, right? Farsi?

One might almost a thought that Jimmy Carter was somehow involved.


J
http://forgottenprophets.blogspot.com/

Question?
Tanabear and merry-go-boy what is your solution to Iraq? What do you belive in. What will you fight for? Please enlighten me.


It seems like everyone wants a war
without death, destruction and killing civilians. Never has happened. Ain't gonna happen now. All we are doing by trying to play 'good-guys' at war is getting our own troops killed and maimed. By avoiding basic principles of warfare we are not only putting our own troops in more danger but the collateral damage to civilian population is most likely more than if we pulled out the stops and went total warfare ala Patton or Rommel or LeMay. Or Decatur or Sherman or any general of wars past who did not have a bunch of snivelling politicians arm-chairing the war from DC and wanting to surrender faster than the French.

Beltway Boys, Krauthammer & NeoCons
About the only thing I agree with Krauthammer on anymore is the recognition that even if the Israeli-Palestinian issue were solved, it would not much matter in the grand scheme of mideast stability. Krauthammer now inhabits the Neo_Con Neighborhood on Fox News. He appears on the roundtable discussion with Brit Hume, along with Fred Barnes and Kondracke. I no longer watch the program, due to its Neo-Con orthodoxy. Still like Brit Hume, however.
A unified Iraqi state is going to be extremely difficult to attain. Even in the Kurdish north, the national flag of Iraq is scarcely seen. The Kurdish provincial flag reigns supreme. Kurds are clamoring for their own state. The Shias don't want to "reconcile" with the Sunnis. They want to eliminate them, or most of them, anyway. The Sunnis, comprised of forces who originally attacked our military, now are fearful that if our military leaves, nothing will prevent the Shia from exacting revenge upon them. It is a mess.
While it is true that the ISG report has been deemed irrelevant by Krauthammer and many others, the Bush Iraqi policy itself is increasingly deemed irrelevant by most Iraqis.
Our government detests the idea of direct talks with Syria and Iran over the Iraq issue, yet seems impervious to the idea of Iraqis themselves engaging in such direct one-on-one talks with these "axes of evil".
Look, I support this president wholeheartedly in his effort to create a stable Iraq that poses no danger to us or our interests. I can, and do, support this president in desiring a stable Iraq, because the consequences of failing there are so grave. But I will not, and cannot, forgive him for his recklessly ignorant and arrogant decision to invade Iraq in the first place. It now has become little more than a salvaging operation. Gone are the naive visions of a democratic Iraq.

radlad, etc.
Good question - who started this isg thing? How did it come about?

I have from time to time sung the praises of another on my daily webstops - http://WWW.MEMRI.ORG

The time has come again.

Please go to that site and click on Special Dispatch to get an idea of what people in the Mid East think about the ISG. (Hint -



As I was saying
before I was so rudely interrupted

People in the mid-east don't like it anymore than people here.

Then go to Today's offerings.

Inquiry and Analysis #307 - 'The Rold of Holocaust Denial in the Ideology and Strategy of The Iranian Regime'.

And the people responsible the the isg would have us come to these people hat in hand for help.

Excuse me?

tanabear
you have a few cylinders misfiring in your gourd. NO ONE can be that stupid on purpose.

Carter negotiating a lasting peace? Where? Iran?

Yep, he did a GREAT job there. Screwed the Shah. Let an Ally fall. Let a Religious maniac take over thus INSTALLING the current regime that we are having problems with RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW!

And he managed to let 52 Americans languish in an Iranian prison for 444 days.

Think you'd like to experience that?

tanabear
BTW, the ONLY reason that the Egyptians bought off on the Peace treaty was because Israel gave them three good spankings.

That is what we in the VRWC call:

"PEACE through SUPERIOR FIREPOWER."

1 more thing
The Israeli-Palestinian issue is NOT going to be "solved". It will go on for the foreseeable future. For now the Israelis give up more and more land in return for promises that the Palestinians have no intention of keeping and the Palestinians immediately trash the land and set up launching pads for launching missiles into Israeli population centers.

And the Israelis are immediately blamed.

peppermint
I missed your post before I asked the question.

Thanks

The Losers like Tanabear and Carter
Lest we forget those 444 days of the Hostage crisis...Holy cow! That is when I realized that Reagan was going to do Great things for our Country. Guess maybe Tanabear jsut likes to skew those facts...and by the way TB...Do you know how high interest rates were, gas prices when good ol Peanut boy was president? I'll bet you have selectively reduced your information processing to including only what you want to believe, not what is...Such a shame.

How much did it cost us
to put this group of has beens and never weres together to create this monument to stupidity?

Win or Lose
The Mahdi militia must be defeated, disarmed, and disbanded. Sadr must be killed and not imprisoned. Will that win for us? I don't know but it sure will make me feel better. Sadr is determined to undermine the votes cast by the people of Iraq and if he is allowed to do that, we as a Democratic Republic, have sold out our ideal. We will have spit in the faces of the 70% of the Iraqis that voted for a better life. We have already given the people of Iraq a worse life by not being forceful enough in providing their security. The Iraqi Army needs to get off its a*s and go to work and we need to demand it. NOW!

ISGR
Once again, well said and said well. Also good question, Kraut.

The ISG -- Shortchanging all
Unitary democracies do not happen in the world of Islam which is in real time in the fourteenth century of its existence. That century in our calendar found the Judeo-Christian world just wrapping up its external religious wars (in the Middle East). It was an age of intolerance and religious hegemony as the Vatican attempted to maintain its temporal existence. This world had not gone through its Renaissance, Religious Reformation and moved into an age of Enlightenment during which such political eonomists as Hume, Mill and Locke would emerge and create the basis for our great experiment.

The world of Islam, at the same relative time period, is at that stage. No Muslim equivalent of John Locke has yet to appear.to inspire and underpin the development of what we call a Republic -- the American version of Democracy.

Look elsewhere in the world. In Africa, nation after nation, given their freedom by the colonial powers leaving established governmental institutions behind quickly fell from 'democracies' into totalitarian states, reduced to tribal warfare and killings in the tens of thousands.

One should not try to paint over rust. It does not take.

The ISG had a terrible task. It was designed solely to provide political cover to all sides, even to act as a lightning rod giving Congress and the Executive excuses for the past nonfeasance and the future walk away, leaving the area (it is not a true country) in shambles.

It looked so simple. We knew that our military would wipe the floor with Saddam's army. The hubris we were intoxicated with after Afghanistan was transferred to the abysmal planning for Iraq.

Why? There are few if any similarities. There the war was fought with minimal U.S. ground forces. The tribal elements were augmented by a heavy use of air power acting in the role of swiftly moving artillery with overwhelming firepower able to move on call to the point of attack wherever needed. The Northern Alliance knew a winner when it saw one. Our special forces -- army, navy and air force were just the ticket. No massive delays in attack caused by decision review and targeting up the line. We were inside the enemy's decision loop.

The forces assigned were doing the job. We defeated the Taliban and had the al Qaeda leadeship boxed in. Higher command then inserted the undertrained 10th Mountain Division, attempting to spread the glory to its regular forces. They were not able to close the loop on the Pakistan border. ben Laden was able to slip away.

We attempted to apply the successes there into Iraq. The template did not fit. There was no equivalent of the Northern Alliance to take the bulk of the fighting. They were all Sunni there.
The Taliban had no modern army.

Secretary Rumsfeld and the neo-cons were cozzened by Chalabi. He said what they wanted to believe. Iraq qould welcome us gladly. Our OSD established a separate intelligence channel controlled by true believers, not skeptics as all intell officers must be. The force of the Secretary and the power of his purse, combined with an extraordinary thinness in Middle East coverage in both DIA and CIA led to more hubris at the top.

CENTCOM planned well to defeat Saddam's organized military forces. It paid scant attention to the changing nature of the opposing forces as major resistance points were manned not by the Army but by fedayeen.

There was no attempt (we did not have the linguists in any event) to reform the captured army into a security force in at least the Sunni provinces. In the south we confused the Arab Shia with those in Persia. We wildly underestimated the forces necessary to secure the east and west borders, permitting infiltration of men and materials on a large scale. We used the marines as Jerry Bremer's fire brigades tamping down flash fires hither and yon, only to see them flare up after they left. The evidence was overwhelming. We did not have enough people to make the peace and we failed to wnlist the trained forces necessary to keep it.

The Baker Commission was not chartered to bring this information forward or to recommend any course of action to rectify the situation through the application of additional resources. It was only empowered to find a path out of domestic political trouble. The buck stopped nowhere. perhaps in withdrawal (physical and psychological) we might be able to retrieve fifty cents in change and nobody would notice that we had lost the other half dollar.

Nobody, that is, outside the Middle East.

some real strategies for WINNING!
One problem for the military in our system is the constant meddling by the "striped pants" experts, like ISG, in the completion of the mission, which is to KILL PEOPLE AND BREAK THEIR STUFF!

As a Nam vet, I can testify to the immasculation that always follows war planning by committee, with a pre-ordained solution in mind. My friends and relatives now serving in the desert tell me how they've been restricted in their response to the enemy, much like my comrades and I were in SE Asia. We're trying very hard to repeat that debacle, which forever reduced the USA's standing as a reliable ally.

Nibras Kazimi, a visiting Iraqi scholar at the Hudson Institute, came up with a response to the dopey Defense Dept's "Go big, go long or go home" report. He says we need to GO SMART and offers suggestions from his site: http://talismangate.blogspot.com/

In addition to modernizing cell phone technology, there are many simple, effective things we can do, like installing GPS in official vehicles, cantonment of unstable areas, better more severe punishment for insurgents, kicking Iraqis out of the Green Zone, buying up explosives on the black market, registering all vehicles in Baghdad, suspending "local only" service for police and military, and swapping their Russian junk for US equipment.

I have some other ideas, like using decoy vehicles to scout convoy routes. Grab a few old beater cars (there are lots) and install GPS, radios, and explosive sensors. Send these down the road and back to hopefully detect suspicious activities. The new "sniffer" technology using honey bees should be rushed into production and put in the hands of our fighters.

Add more Predators to support operations, especially at night and cover infiltration routes with ground sensors with Predators and reaction forces on station to respond to the Syrian and Iranian borders.

Let's not shortchange the effort, whining about the co$t. The price civilisation will pay for our failure is infinitely greater.



The ISG told...
every US citizen and the rest of the world, “We think y’all are idiots and will fall for this (expletive deleted).”

Very good, James
And Warrior has some good points also. Expanding on the suppression of militias; we should surround and cordone off these bums using the Falluja model. Sweep the area clean of the killers, restrict entry and exit to residents only, build walls if necessary (great employment potential) and man the perimeter with Iraqis backed up with our artillery and fast movers. If the residents of these neighborhoods can relax in safety and earn a living, their are more likely to begin ratting out the bad guys among them. If nothing else it will reduce the insurgents to lobbing mortars over the wire/wall, instead of driving an explosive laden gasoline tanker into the marketplace.

Our counter-insurgent propaganda is a JOKE! Pathetic compared to the many print and TV outlets available who are mostly sympathetic to the murdering scum. An all out effort should be made to pipe in our side of the story, a new, slick Radio Free Iraq for a start. The TV network in DC producing for the Baghdad market is scoffed at as just more lies coming from the heart of the Great Satan. If they really want to gain the confidence of the populace, they need to be in-country.

Iraqis hiding inside the Green Zone need to man-up and move back into their communities. Some have already done so, providing for their own security and gaining the respect of their constituents. One fact of life in this 14th century culture, if you lack guts, you won't have many followers.

There are many intelligent people posting here - we should be able to brainstorm alternative solutions to surrender.

To Roadmaster
Very inciteful, well articulated, short and to the point. Should br read by our chieff's of staff, disseminated through the ranks and implemented at ground level. Too bad there are not more common sense military personnel and the administrators that would let them do their job. Keep upthe good work and email your profound thoughts to the President. He's developing a new strategy for Iraq, and he could definitely use your input.

Only "bipartisan consensus"
Meaning, two groups supposedly on opposite sides of an issue reaching a common, incorrect conclusion!

Group Membership
Who put this group of middle east experts together and why?

The only better group I can think of would be made up of Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Carter, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Kim Jung Ill, Akmahdinejahd(?) and various representatives from al Queda, Hammas, Islamic Jihad and the PLO. At least a couple of them have some real knowledge of the middle east.

We would at least be able to understand the reasoning behind the results of the alternate group.

The trouble with winning the war
began almost immediately after the vote to go to war. At that time, the democrats, as a solid voting block, opposed absolutely everything the administration proposed. After fighting him all the way, the democrats then cried "You're not working wih us. This is the most secretive whitehouse ever. Besides this is an anillegal presidency and the president is a liar and hitlerlike. Consider what could have been done if there had been sincere co-operation in winning this war. Now, the democrats say they want bi-partisanship but immediately started attacking the president after the Surrender Study Group report because Bush didn't without pause embrace the report toally, Is that a path to bi-partisonship? And now,there are the freelancing senators attempting to seize control of foreigh policy by negotiation with the Syrians. (Nelson and Dodd).

ISG
Can't we all just get along? If only the Iranians would help, and the Sunnis and Shiites would have a big group hug!

Charles Krauthammer always seems to cut through the crap and tell it like it is! That is why I respect his opinion!

Ted Pruitt

Truthful James
Nice analysis of the differences between Iraq and Afghanistan military campaigns, as well as upon the applicability of democracy in much of the world. I have read where Taliban is resurging in Afghanistan, aided by the intelligence service in Pakistan. Outside of Kabul, I don't believe the national government wields control. Warlords do. They along with the Taliban reap monies from the opium harvest, the largest in history. Democracy is not taking hold there. In Iraq, it obviously isn't. I think Iraqi elections there were more an expression in census-taking than democratic ideals.
I understand it may sound patronizing to some, but I don't believe much of the world is of a mindset or sophistication to understand and implement our notions of democracy. And it may even be patronizing on our part to think that our democratic ideals are those that the world must embrace. The thirst for democracy must spring from within. We can encourage democracy, but we must not try to impose it. True, we imposed it on Japan after WW2. But that was because we totally annihilated the nation and people, firebombing them, using atomic weapons. They were devastated. It was our way, or no way. Then we "made them an offer they couldn't refuse".
And most importantly, unlike Iraq, we did not go to war against the Japanese in order to create democracy. We went to war to destroy them.

Warrior,
how right you are. We should've taken out this turkey when his blood thirsty followers murdered a popular fellow Shiek in the early days of the war whose views of the coalition were positive. Even now there's a warrant for his arrest which, due to political considerations, has been placed on the back burner.

Bush, I believe, should increase by 30,000 the number of troops in Iraq whose primary mission should be the security of Baghdad and the liquidation of the Mahdi Army. For you liberals, listen up tanabear, that means killing them starting by lopping off the head of the Mookster and to continue with all 60,000 of his followers if that's what it takes. If we're unwilling to do what's necessary to be victorious, then we need to come home post haste.

James and Roadmaster
Thanks for the non-partisan analysis of the problem in Iraq. Both of you ignore the politics of the Democrats and Republicans and point out the 800lb gorilla that everyone else is ignoring.

I could have done the ISG report in less than 10 words

KEEP THE POLITICIANS OUT OF THE WAR PLANNING AND EXECUTION.

Iraq surrender group
The best "attitude adjustment" possible for those people would be 8 or 10 simultaneous mushroom clouds to appear in Tehran, Damascus, and a few other places, and if any of the nut job dictators are left, tell them there are plenty more (tridents) left where those came from.

The only thing that has ever slowed those people, from the 7th Century to now, is the use of force. It has never been about religion, it's always been about power over people, with religion and the promise of a better after life being the vehicle to achieve that power.

When Iran gets nukes, and the means to deliver them, the mushroom clouds will be in Israel and this country. At least, if Israel has any armed forces left, they will retaliate, our dumbocraps would want to negotiate.

The Old Coot

Kraut
is right again. Relieve Sadr of his duties, if he becomes a matyre? in battle so be it. I would suggest an extreme level of brutality and violence to carry this out (send the message we should have sent to begin with).

I would go one big leap past this and start a week long bombing campaign over Iran. Use 250 aircraft on mostly night time sorties. Pound the suspected installations with enough ordinance to destroy the targets two-fold.

The civilian casualties will be forgiven by the rest of the world in light of a) total destruction of the facilities, and b)the fact that we have relieved these euro-cowards of any obligation to MAN-UP!!

You can not have an effect on facilities 100+ft underground, but at least it will take a few years to them out; hey, its a start!

11h

Who appointed the ISG?
Several have asked this question and it has been answered by others with links. Here is a cut-and-paste from wikipedia for everyone's convenience.


The Iraq Study Group (ISG), also known as the Baker-Hamilton Commission,[1] or simply the Baker Commission,[2] was a ten-person bipartisan panel appointed on March 15, 2006, by the United States Congress, that was charged with assessing the situation in Iraq and the US-led Iraq War and making policy recommendations. It was first proposed by Virginia Republican Representative Frank Wolf.[3]

The Iraq Study Group was facilitated by the United States Institute of Peace, who released the Iraq Study Group's final report on their Website on December 6, 2006.


We should all note that the ISG was appointed by Congress to make recommendations on matters pertaining to foreign policy and war, both of which are the province of the President, according to the US Constitution.

Therefore, Krauthammer, Limbaugh, and others who have said that what the President does with the report or "recommendations" is entirely up to him. I personally recommend that he use the report as a substitute for toilet tissue in the restrooms used by the White House Press Corps.


11hote
I agree, the best way to stop the violence in Iraq is to bomb the crap out of Iran.
Then all of the so called"insurgents" would have no support left.

Patton agrees with with deornwulf
At the end of WWII US war hero Gen. George Patton responded to a famous quote from the philosopher Clemenceau, who had once said:

"War is too important to be left up to the generals."

Patton's response: "The problem with the damned politicians is they never let us finish the job. They always leave us with another war to fight."

Patton was referring to the Russians, who were our co-occupiers of Berlin at the time. Patton was relieved of command because of these remarks (and others in a similar vein). Less than a year later Joe Stalin broke the promise he made at Yalta and Patton's prophecy was fullfilled; a Cold War that did not end until Ronald Reagan won it in 1989.

Patton believed in reincarnation. Somewhere he is no doubt reading deornwulf's post and smiling in agreement.

Warrior,
you are absolutely correct. Al-Sadr should be KILLED, not captured. Think about how much better things would have been if they had dropped a grenade into that rathole Sadaam Hussein was cowering in. That monster would not have been able to turn his trial(s) into farcical theater.


It is disgusting to hear people talking about how angry Sadaam's supporters would have been if he had been killed. Yeah, they might even have participated in the so called insurgency. Why, they could have given aid and comfort to the foreign fighters (terrorists) who poured into Iraq through Syria.


As far as ISG is concerned, it is nothing but a very visible sign of the degeneracy that has afflicted America. It represents the Democrat traitors in Washington, like Schumer, Kennedy, Read, etc. Include Marxist frauds who make up the faculties in universities, and that cadre of leftist nut cases who post here on Town Hall.


I really do not think that America can survive unless something is done about the enemy within. It looks as though that will never happen.

aryling
Would you want that group consulting on a brain surgery operation for you and voting on what to cut?

Just because they are experts in their fields doesn't mean they know ANYTHING about warfare.

Wars are not waged in a democratic fashion with votes on tactics and consensus building on logistics. They should be conducted by military experts eho have spent their lives preparing for this, just like you'd want your brain surgeon to be an expert.

Liberal hubris that intellectuals can solve the world's problems in nowhere better exhibited that in a group like the ISG and your defense of it.

People like you are going to get us killed!

Buck
Good post! Realistic appraisal of the war.

If we continue to be so very concerned about not killing civilians in the Middle East, we'll end up with American civilians dying here.

Aryling
Wars aren't fought by "consensus".

Wars aren't fought democratically. The military has to have absolute authority over its personnel. That's why desertion in the face of the enemy is punishable by death.

To apply tea-party platitudes to the conduct of war, as the ISG has done, is simply rediculous.

What Repubs/Cons Should Ask themselves
Is why there was a need for a ISG to begin with?

re: aryling' post
"Yes, yes it does!"

I can just see this moonbat jumping up and down screaming that line! dolt.

JDComments, you are exactly right. If you don't have the training in military operations, civil actions, etc, then STFU.

Vern Jordan? The ONLY that idiot is well-versed in is p*mping for Drop-Trou and then aplogizing for him.

aryling, next time you need a repair done on your house, say a new roof, get together a group of teenagers and turn them loose, I'll bet they do a great job!

Left Angle
let's see?

Three years of BAD NEWS 24/7 from the liberal MSM.

Three years of doom and gloom from the libturds?

Six years of Bush bashing by the leftscum?

Gee, go figure.

aryling
They can suggest.

You can suggest.

I suggest that we just nuke the entire region and call it quits.

Doesn't mean it holds validity.

Suggestions are like opinions are like a**holes.

We've all got one and they stink.

Aunt B
Gotta be my favorite name to date. Just loved her and the Andy Griffith Show.

Aryling
My post wasn't about you, it was about the ISG and it's inane "suggestions" regarding the war.

If I wanted to address YOU personally, I'd do it to your face. Get personal with me and I reply in kind.

isg
shows us that they are dem partisans trying to give dem ideas and having cover of being a study group thats not partisan to make the bush administration look as bad as possible and therefore taking the heat off the dems for any thing that goes wrong with there ideas on how to solve the iraq problem,then they can still blame bush, because the dem party has no strategy to stand on.

aryling's list
aryling writes:

"So you really think that a former Supreme Court Justice, (2) Secretary of State, US Attorney General, Secretary of Defense, White House Chief of Staff, among others, can't SUGGEST strategic changes in a WAR?"

Former SCJ Sandra Day O'Connor: Knows NOTHING about foreign policy or war, nor is she supposed to in order to be SCJ. She's supposed to know the law and the Constitution.

William J. Perry: Was Sec of Defense for 46 days. Was also a recess appointment of a lame duck Bush 41 because Bush 41 LOST the 92election Clinton; Bush41 needed a new SecDef because his old SecDef, the same James Baker who headed the ISG, managed his LOSING re-election campaign.

Lawrence Eagleburger: Hasn't been in gov't since 92. Was nicknamed Lawrence of Serbia for his management of Yugoslavia while it was falling into genocide.

William J. Perry: Clinton's choice to replace Les Aspin as his Sec Def after Aspin was made the fall guy for Clinton's disaster in Somalia in 1993. Perry oversaw the Clinton administrations total failures in the WOT from 1994 to 1997.

Leon Panetta: Clinton's Chief of Staff who was Monica Lewinsky's boss while she was giving Slick Willie blow jobs and Secretary Betty Wright was trying to control "bimbo eruptions".

Alan Simpson: Liberal Republican from Wyoming who hated his own party, as typified by the quote below:

"I've been a Republican all my life. They'll never throw me out. But they have an amazing ability to "eat their young". They will give each other the saliva test of purity every once in a while, and then they lose. And then they just sit around and b*tch for four years. It's a fairly fascinating party."

Edwin Meese III: a good man with NO foreign policy or military experience.

The only guy on aryling's list that even remotely qualifies as an "expert" potentialy capable of producing an intelligent assessment/recommendation on Iraq is Cobb.

Some list.

To answer arylings question, their report is all the evidence we need to realize that no, they can't make suggestions. At least not useful ones.

The way of Harriet Miers
For me, at least, this is the "last word" on the mainly moronic ISG.

Krauthammer came up with the face-saving strategy (whose specifics I've completely forgotten) for withdrawing the disastrous Harriet Miers Supreme Court nomination which the White House subsequently enacted to the letter. Would that it could happen again.

Gunny G, Old Coot
There's an elephant in the corner, dudes. Right there, see him?
The whole reason the USA has sent troops into the middle east, rather than ignoring them and letting them establish their own geo-political equalibrium is that we DO care about innocent lives.
I've seen plenty of people on both sides of the WOT issue saying " Let's just nukem'!!!".
I have a huge problem with that idear.
It seems to me that nuclear weapons are the final solution, not the first one.
Yeah I guess it'd save more American lives that way, but it shows a pretty callous disregard for the sanctity of humanity, at least in the context of the millions, that's right, I said MILLIONS of innocents who would die needlessly.
Not that I have a specific fondness for Islam, on the contrary, I do believe it to be the greatest challenge facing America in this century.
However, the challenge is manifold, and complicated beyond anything we as a nation have ever faced before.
On one hand, we need to win, or we lose, it's as simple as that.
On the other hand, we need to do it in a way that's obvious without being downright extermination, unless you agree with Hitler and Stalin that nothing short of total annihilation will do. ( Not to mention Achmandeniwhackjob).
It would be better that Americans stand tall and take a few whacks on the chin, and demonstrate through our courage and convictions, and the blood of our finest, that we are right, the terrorists are wrong and that America- far from trying to run the world, is instead freeing people from tyranny and allowing them to choose their own course.
If we wanted to rule the world, nukes would have been launched before the cold war, and any country that didn't immediately toe the line would have been glass.
We didn't.
But it IS a different world now, and the events in the smallest of countries can have an impact on the largest.
We could have sat on our butts and watched the fall of Europe from the sidelines, but it would not be in the best interests of our western way of life to allow the radical muslim ideology encompass half the globe.
With that kind of natural resources at their disposal, I have no doubt that an ideology whos membership exceeds 1.4 to 1.6 billion ( I don't think anybody really knows) shouldn't have too much trouble overwhelming the rest of us.
I'm not accusing ALL muslims, only the 10% that even CAIR has to admit are radically jihadi.
Do the math.
That's a minimum of 140 to 160 million bodies, scattered like poison ivy worldwide, whose sole purpose in breathing is to cleanse the world of sin. ( Read "Americans", and "The Jews").
THAT is what the ISG fails to grasp, as well as the well-meaning, but historically mis-informed.
Let's face it folks: Troops Now, Or Nukes Tomorrow. You choose.

PS
Freeing people to make their own choices doesn't mean they will always make choices we like, that's fine. We just have to show them the error of their ways again, and again, and even again.
It may seem irrational, but so is Islamofacism, so they will understand us a lot better if we speak their language- death, face to face.

aryling
And your point is????
A leftist laundry list do not a consensus make, not that wars are fought by comittee anyhow.
(Not sucessful ones anyway).

Addressing the question you asked
I addressed the question you asked, not the one you now wished you had asked.

Nor will I waste my time with 44 other people you now wish to cite or 136 or 170 people you don't even name. From your own citations very few of them know anything about foreign policy or war. All they have done is run up the bill on a useless piece of bureaucratic bilge.

What your so-called experts have produced is crap.

Just as the unpublicized true purpose of the 9/11 Commission was to protect Clinton and blame Bush, so the unpublicized but true purpose of the ISG is to give the next Congress cover when they decide to de-fund the war and insist on surrender.

The left can call it re-deployment or anything else they want to, but it won't be any different than what the left did to South Vietnam in the 1970's

I wouldn't let your group of 170 "experts" watch my dog for me.

My answer to your question remains the same. It is obvious from what they have produced that no, your experts can't make useful suggestions.

Airgun
Now that's what a good post looks like.

tanabear
That would probably be the easiest way to hand victory to the jihad; "We'll divide, you conquer, Okey-doke?"

ayrling
If the ISG had included one single pro-war member on it's panel; or anyone military who served after 911- we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Gunny G: Those are just excuses..
for a failed Iraq policy by Bush.

What Qualifications?
Aryling, Could you tell us what National War College. Oconnor, Simpson, Jordon, Baker,Hamilton et al, attended? Isn't ole Vern J. the same dude that got shot in Indiana several years ago by a Jelous Husband? Come to think of it, maybe that why in convolutable terms, those who picked him to serve on the "Iraq Surrender Group" consider him such a great expert. Other qulifications were getting Slick Willie's, Monica,a job, not the kind of job she put on Slick.

aryling
I served in the US Army during a war; I know how war is conducted by the military. THAT'S A FACT, not an opinion.

The first responsibility of the military in war is to defeat the enemy. According to your beloved ISG, the mission is to start a dialogue with the enemy (Syria and Iran).

We talk with the enemy AFTER we defeat the enemy. That's basic diplomacy (negotiate from a position of strength).

None of the above is opinion, aryling, it's all fact. You don't agree with anything I've written because you have a personal hatred for those who don't follow your beliefs. You denigrate posters with personal attacks merely because they have different points of view. That's immature and defeats the purpose of these boards, which is rational debate in an open venue.

Two Countries tell us what to do...
The Saudis and the Israelis, they both have influence in our government. They "rent" our military from time to time. The ISG was an attempt by the Saudi faction, headed by James Baker to cool the Israelis down. See the Israelis have wanted Iraq, Iran, and Syria eliminated for some time now, the only problem is they don't want to waste their precious lives, so they send in the unknowing mercenaries, our troops, to waste their lives for Israel. Of course our AIPAC owned government and media scares the American public into thinking these piles of sand want to invade the US, but hey, if the American people are ignorant enough to believe, why not.

Today there was a report that the Saudis have signed on to the Iran War, they can see that the ISG was a total flop and basically surrendered to the Israelis.

Maybe one day us Americans will get to run our own foreign policy.

George W Bush
No they have no interest in attacking us?
How quickly we forget 911
A silent Muslum, is no different than the one that wants to kill us, when they stand up and condemn those in their own comunity, then I will believe they aren't the enemy.
Otherwise, I see them as the enemy, and they want us dead!

Davmac: So Whats the Problem?
according to Bush administration officials this whole Iraq missionn was supposed to be a "slam dunk"...

Can you please explain to us how the Bush administration with the worlds most powerful
military armed with the most advanced weapons and intelligence capabilities cant subdue a ragtag insurgency that is fighting basically with antiquated weapons and people bombs..
to tell the truth it's really embarrassing.

ayrling: Repub/Con Attack On ISG
are primarily based upon the continued arrogance of the right that only THEY know how to solve the nations problems. It's the same arrogance that has lost them control of Congress and if they keep it up (which i hope they do) they are gonna lose the white house in 2008.

They would have attacked the ISG report if it came out with blank pages because it was an affront to President Bush. Basically if you read the criticisms they all seem to be saying:

"Take your report and shove it because we dont need your help, we got this covered"

They want to "win" more than anything else. Yet when you ask them to define "victory" they cant tell you what it means. Furthermore ask them this question:

Even if you achieve your so called "victory" in Iraq how is that going to stop another future domestic terrorist attack on the U.S.?

more than likely they will respond with vile
adhominen attacks.

Solar
You can organize your church group to fight your holy war. Al Qaeda attacked us, they are able to recruit because of our imperialist foreign policy. Funny you want a foreign policy that fills their recruiting centers and decreases ours.

If you don't believe my post look into James Baker's past. Baker knows 9/11, he represented the Saudi Royal Family when they were sued by the 9/11 families. Look into the past of the Neocons, they have left paper trails. MEMRI the new media organization for "exposing" the Arabs is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the Likud party, look at their founders and their spouses. AIPAC has spied on the US, and regardless of that is still one of the main players in Washington. AIPAC is a FOREIGN LOBBY GROUP. Do you want foreign lobby groups telling our politicians how to vote? They will remain the politicians' boss so long as they pay their wage.

LAngle
"Can you please explain to us how the Bush administration with the worlds most powerful
military armed with the most advanced weapons and intelligence capabilities cant subdue a ragtag insurgency that is fighting basically with antiquated weapons and people bombs..
to tell the truth it's really embarrassing."

Yeah, it is really embarrassing that we have people in this country who hate it so much they are willing to say and do anything so we are defeated.
The libs and the MSM have consistently undermined the war effort day by day. The terrorists watch this and know that sooner or later the American people will fold. They count on that.

The reason we have not crushed the insurgency is because we have been fighting a PC war, another entity (PC) invented by the left.

Here is the Liberal Policy for fighting a war:

First and foremost DO NOT FIGHT A WAR even if it means our survival.

If we do fight a war which the libs would never agree to anyway here are some rules:
And this is how we lose:

No casualties
No collateral damage
No bombing of mosques because "they" might not like us.
No military defending themselves.
Prison for military personnel defending themselves.
Instant recriminations if military bombs wrong building.
Instant hearings if military bombs wrong persons
Instant hearings if military bombs wrong truck
Report to NYSlime any and all classified info
Report to NYSlime any prison abuses before an investigation
Publish all pictures that would hurt the war effort
Report lies such as prisoners not getting fed
Report lies such as prisoners not getting sleep
Report lie that soldier flushed koran down toilet
Show military casualties and play morbid music to inflame the American public
Show terrorists sniping American soldiers
Place news people in the middle of soldiers and then report made up stories of soldiers being
inhumane
Do not show any reconstruction.
Do not show any soldiers helping people
Do not show beheadings by the terrorists
(that might make the thugs not like us)
Do not show brutality done to our soldiers
Do show panties on prisoners heads
Do not show soldiers getting burned and dismembered by terrorists

Second Rule:
Repeat the above 24/7 day by day so that all can be brainwashed that we are losing a war.

Third Rule:
Repeat Rule 1 and 2

ARYLING
"If the ISG had included one single pro-war member on it's panel"

I hope some day soon you will realize how silly that remark truly is."

WHY IS IT SILLY TO WANT AT LEAST ONE MEMBER ON THE COMMISSION WHO BELIEVES WE CAN WIN? IT IS ALSO WORTHWHILE TO NOTE THAT NOT ONE MEMBER ON THE COMMITTEE AND SUBCOMMITEES WAS FROM THE PENTAGON. ONCE AGAIN IT APPEARS THAT WAR IS BEING CONDUCTED NOT ON THE BATTLEFIELD, BUT BY CONGRESS. SHADES OF VIET NAM!

George W. Bush
In your quest to indict Israel, you wrote that "See the Israelis have wanted Iraq, Iran, and Syria eliminated for some time now, the only problem is they don't want to waste their precious lives, so they send in the unknowing mercenaries, our troops, to waste their lives for Israel. "

IN ALL OF ISRAEL'S WARS WAGED UPON THEM BY ARABS THERE WERE NO AMERICAN TROOPS ON THE GROUND BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT ANTI-SEMITES LIKE YOURSELF USING THEIR DEFENSE AS A TOOL TO INDICT ISRAEL. SO KNOCK IT OFF!

The Iraq Surrender Group
Elder politicans should receive respect for wisdom and age. Instead, they proved to be out of touch with reality, both at home and abroad. No respect earned or given.

What does Alan Simpson know about Middle East Politics and Islamic traditions? He is completely unqualified to recommend anything in Iraq. Politicans get to learn on the job at the taxpayers expense. In their world, senority and connectivity are the key qualifications. We should disregard them all and start from scratch.

To all the Antisemites
you should be ashamed of yourselves. You spout off anti Israeli blather without a fact to back up what you say. Israel trying to eliminate Syria, Iran, and Iraq!! Good grief, so do also believe it was the Jews who took down the World Trade Center?

George W Bush
The funny thing about an education, is the more you learn, the more you realize, you don't know.
This whole conflict is bigger than the surface you're scratching, but it comes down to one simple fact.
We are at war, and we have two options, lose or win.
You may blame whom ever you want, but it goes even deeper than that.
Read the quran, it is a how to book on War.
In my opinion, it's time to fight it like we mean it.

David Mac
Redoing my post from Diana West's column..but it is a good idea...I think.

jerubaal , baseballdoc
Maybe we are on to something. First, we make sure the Saudis have access to one faction, can arm, maintain and supply them. Then we make sure the Iranians have access to the other faction. We give Israel the go-ahead to take out Iran's nuke program. Our forces then do a flanking movement, leave Baghdad and all the other centers of population, march to the oilfields and occupy same. Then WE take over the store as Kennedy said, "open under new management". I don't think the Euros or Chicoms or anyone else will want to start anything if we tell them to pull their tankers up and we will 'fill 'er up' at . . . say. . .$50.00 bbl. Oh, every once in awhile we might have to send some 'aid' to one faction or the other in the rest of the desert as they joyfully and for allah kill each other off.

I err....
"Give Israel the go ahead..." I don't think we would have to give Israel any 'go ahead'. Those Jews know what Genocide is. The arabs may lose every war with Israel they start and still exist. The Jews cannot lose one war with the arabs. When push comes to shove, look for the Jews to do a lot of shoving and the rest of the world be dammned. Can you blame them?

Buck
"The Jews cannot lose one war with the arabs. When push comes to shove, look for the Jews to do a lot of shoving and the rest of the world be dammned. Can you blame them?"

No, any self respecting nation would do the same.
(although I'm not sure some people here have gotten the notion)
What are the Jews going to do? Let themselves be annihilated? Just about every country in this world is anti Israel except the US.

Just last week, I believe, even callous contemptible Kofi said the UN has issued 7 rebukes against Israel over a certain period of weeks, but no other country had received any.

So, Iran receives no rebukes for all the language Pres. Achmednut uses saying they are going to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Lebanon receives no rebukes for not disarming Hezbollah,
Palestine receives no rebukes for Hamas.
The list goes on, who's counting.


ayrling
Your "facts" are going to get us killed here in the U.S. Baker and his cadre of tired old men who wouldn't know how to win anything have told us nothing we didn't already know. Heck, I could have mailed in this "report". What an embarrassment to anyone who cares about seeing his/her grandchildren grow up without fear from Islamo-Nazis blowing them up here, which is what will happen if we don't have the guts to make martyrs out of so many of these muslim maniacs they do not want to fight or sue us (6 Imams on the U.S. Air flight).

aryling
responded to my post by writing, "All you are talking is still just OPINION!" and "Get over yourself."

Aryling apparently feels my military service doesn't give me any insight into the conduct of war or commands any respect. Aryling also apparently feels that his military service does.

I met a lot of guys like you in the Army. They whined and complained and wanted mommy's home cooking. Nothing was right, nothing satisfied them. Everything anyone told them to do was suspect and open to critical examination.

I don't care what you did, aryling. I know that you denigrate my service and experiences because you are just another whiney little boy who never grew up.

Now you're an old man and STILL whining.

Get over yourself.


Pepper
The sickest thing I saw was a couple months ago when Israel went into Lebanon to try to stop the rockets and the world was crying, "Disproportionate Response". That shows the left is either trying to get us all killed off or they are totally stupid about warfare. If you are attacked you respond with everything you have. If Lebanon was so upset about Israel invading their 'turf' they should not have allowed the arabs to launch a rocket attack from their soil.

more confusion
The ISG was not trying to find ways to kill more Iraqis, because they understand that our involvment in Iraq has no similarities to WWII, WWI, the first Gulf War, or really any conventional war. If we take president Bush at his word our invasion of Iraq -- after the WMD hooey turned out to be fabrications -- was to take Iraq from 1)a secular dictatorship to 2) a legitimate democracy that 3) supports the United States and Israel.

Now, love or hate this definition of victory, this is the definition of victory we are operating on, so the question is: how do we best achieve this goal? Immediately, everyone -- outside the Bush cult -- is aware that the solution cannot be to kill more Iraqis. Is the reason Sunni and Shia are fighting, the reason the Kurds want autonomy, because our military hasn't killed enough Iraqis? If that's the case then how many Iraqis need to die before the Sunni and Shia will get along? How many Mosques do we need to destroy before Iraqis become Zionists? Anyone have an idea?

The ISG wasn't trying to explore ways in which to kill more people, but ways to introduce institutions, ideas etc that might mediate the sectarian strain in Iraq, or at least allow some measure of stability. Of course trying to create a democracy in Iraq might be like trying to make a sand castle on the ocean, but we really should drop the nonsense that "victory" eludes us because more Iraqis aren't under the earth.


Buck
Who was the idiot that came up with "dispoportionate Response"? Sickest is exactly the right word. Overwhelming paralyzing response is the kindest thing a nation at war can do to its enemy because it stops the fighting. Israel's careful civilized responses to the war it has been in since attacked by the armies of 5 nations in 1948, have merely led to a continuation of misery. The atomic bombs we dropped on Japan saved an estimated 2 to 3 Million lives. Possibly we would still be fighting an "insurgent" war in Japan if we had not convinced a fanatically determined enemy that resistance would be futile death. The war with the jihadis will end only when they reach the same conclusion. This will require ruthless damage and death. Quick and effective action will be kindest in the long run. Or we can play the "humane, afraid of world opinion" game and screw around with jihadi suicide bombers until they win from superior persistance and will.

Yes! Baker, Hamilton et al, saved...
W's bacon. Charles is always so objective and logical. He would be a major benefit as an advisor to the Bush Administration. He's already in Washington, no relo expenses...

Now the elected leader: Bush, can truly act like a leader without the worry or influence of a congressional army of second-guesser's who don't have one idea of how to fight a war or engage ineffective diplomacy.

After this farce of a report, W can take the initative to formulate: with Gates, a new plan. Let's hope that he includes some "dedicated" field commanders in the process too.

Does the public realize that our so-called "Congressional Leaders" are not LEADERS at all. Their function is nothing more than committee and sub-committee work that either "recommends" or "suggests" or "tweaks" or "obstructs" legislative material before it is approved or disproved by our leader: President Bush.

OK! Kerry, Nelson, et al, run over to the Middle East and pose for photo ops with the bastards who have rendered their treachery upon us: US, Britain, Spain (hasn't learned its lesson), France (ditto), Italy (ditto again), Indonesia, Bali, and, of course, Israel. And wait 'til the Radical Muslims try something in Poland. That will be pretty interesting.

So the ISG (Iraq Surrender Group) has issued their findings: Surrender in Iraq; surrender the Middle East; surrender Israel; surrender to Hezbollah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood; surrender the majority of current oil production; surrender to Islamofacism worldwide; allow a psychopath to gain nuclear capability; and, while the iron is hot, tuck your tail and SURRENDER TO ALL THE RADICALS WHO WANT NOTHING MORE THAN TO DESTROY OUR SOCIETY AND BURY US.

These ten Warlords who conspired to aid the enemy, have the nerve to put their names on this piece of garbage, and in so doing have perpetrated a coup, if it's ever undertaken, that will be a very short-term (months, if not weeks or days) solution to a historically complex set of problems. The end result will be: The End of Western Civilization and quite possibly: The End Days, a promised Armageddon.

We know where the center of the radical movement is and has been for decades: Saudi Arabian Wahhabism and the hate-filled sermons of the radical "religious" leaders of the Arabian mosques. Their vitriolic misinterpretation of their own tracts and other religions: practiced by "people of the book" have been the continuing scourge that's claimed lives on every continent.

Two of the worst practitioners are "Religious Clerics", who've been permitted to teach their radical Wahhabi jihad curriculum in Saudi universities before and after 9/11. They taught Osama bin Laden.... Just one of their favorite disciples.

Now, the questions have to be brought to the fore: Where are James Baker's true allegiance's? Why is his involvement in Saudi state and royal business covered up? As a lawyer, he represents (defends) the Saudi state and royal family whenever outsiders: 9/11 families for instance, sue for reparations.

Why have we permitted this ruse to be even contemplated, yet bought and paid for by the US Government? Baker is nothing more than a double agent who operates for the benefit of the radical regimes and has, obviously, padded his own house for the upcoming apocalypse.

Wake UP!

aryling...
Okay... read it.

It's still a load of recycled bilge anyone capable of posting a link from various leftist pundits could have written in one day... and saved $1 million.

Someone once said, "A camel is a race horse built by a committee."

I hope our president "takes it under advisement" and promptly commits it to the circular file where it belongs.

Buck and Savage99
Right. Disproportionate response. I don't know who started it either, but I imagine it came from the UN. The rockets being launched into Israel on a daily basis sure did get little play during that interchange between Lebanon and Israel. Oh, I forgot, they are just supposed to put up with Hezbollah and not do anything about it.
And, it is sickening. I kept hoping Israel would tear down the whole Hezbollah area and stop worrying about world opinion. After all world opinion is already against Israel.

Quick action with brutal force is the only thing these fanatic muslim thugs will understand. Since when do they care about civilians? Of course there is no world condemnation of that.

Bill - Coup is the operative word
Kerry and Nelson are part of the leadership of this effort to make an end run around Bush and try to minimize the Presidency even more. Since the enemedia won't call their actions what they are - TREASON, then it's up to all right thinking patriots to do it, LOUDLY!

In November 2000 I was laidover in my truck in central FLA for a weekend. I struck up an acquaintence with a nice little guy in a new Peterbilt who was parked close to me. He was a Palestinian who had rejected his homeland and become an American citizen. His most prized possession, besides that big, beautiful truck, was a gold coin, dated from the 1920's. It had three inscriptions - Hebrew, Arabic, and Greek - symbolizing the three great religions which existed harmoniously in the Holy Land at that time.

Nick, as he preferred to be called, explained how he became estranged from his own brother because of the rising tensions between Arab and Israelis. He told his brother that his was the ultimate, cowardly sin: for him to poison his sons' minds and send them out to die for HIS hatred of Jews. Nick never looked back and was extremely grateful, proud to be one of "us," free to succeed as an American and knowing full well the dead end ahead for the family he'd left behind.

I called Nick a few days after 9-11, and he was in dire straits. Since he had an Middle Eastern accent, he was denied loads by brokers, blinded by their ears over the phone, and was stranded with a truck payment due. Anyone who knows trucking will tell you, those big wheels have to keep turning, or you go down the tubes fast. He was also very upset that his gold coin had been stolen some months earlier, but had a brass replica made to replace it because he still naively believed that the harmony it stood for was possible, if people could stop hating.

I called my dispatch and set him up with a load to get him moving but I haven't heard from him since. I hope he's still doing well because here is a man who came out of that crucible and was able to see the light. Makes you wonder how so many politician, elites or anyone for that matter, can be so blind to the evil that looms in front of us all.


Roadmaster
Congrats on another fine post. Guys like Nick illustrate how important it is to treat each person as an individual. Thee is no doubt in my mind that most muslims in this country are here just to make a living, and the seductive power of the American way of life and opportunity is the fire beneath the melting pot. Having said that, i also believe its time to let what's in the pot melt, and suspend muslim and Hispanic immigration for the time being. I do hope Nick has enough people in the business who know him well enough to keep him and the Peterbilt going.
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