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Friday, August 11, 2006
Charles Krauthammer :: Townhall.com Columnist
Lamont's victory will hurt Democrats in the long run
by Charles Krauthammer
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WASHINGTON -- With the defeat of Joe Lieberman in the Democratic primary in Connecticut, anti-war forces are poised for a takeover of the Democratic Party. Tuesday's exhilarating victory, and the elan and electoral legitimacy gained, may carry the newly energized Democratic left to considerable success in November.

But for the Democratic Party it will be an expensive and short-lived indulgence. The Iraq War will end, as will the Bush presidency. But the larger conflict that defines our times -- war on Islamic radicalism, more politely known as the war on terror -- will continue. And the reflexive anti-war sentiments underlying Ned Lamont's victory in Connecticut will prove disastrous for the Democrats in the long run -- the long run beginning as early as November '08.

Consider an analogy that the anti-war types hold dear: Iraq as Vietnam. I reject the premise, but let's assume it for the purpose of following the political consequences of anti-war movements.

The anti-Vietnam War movement had its political successes. They were, as in Connecticut last Tuesday, mostly internecine. One Democratic presidency was destroyed (Lyndon Johnson), as was the presidential candidacy of his would-be successor, Hubert Humphrey.

Like Iraq, Vietnam was but one theater in a larger global struggle -- that struggle against the Soviet Union and its communist clients around the world -- and by the early 1970s, the newly reshaped McGovernite party had to face the larger post-Vietnam challenges of the Cold War. The result? Political disaster.

The anti-Vietnam sentiment left a residual pacifism, an aversion to intervention and an instinct for accommodation that proved very costly to the Democrats for years to come. The most notorious example was the liberal flight to the ``nuclear freeze'' -- the most mindless strategic idea of our lifetime -- in opposition to Ronald Reagan facing down the Soviet deployment of missiles in Eastern Europe.

Apart from the Carter success of 1976 -- an idiosyncratic post-Watergate accident -- the ``blame America first'' Democrats were not even competitive on foreign policy for the rest of the Cold War. It was not until the very disappearance of the Soviet Union that the American citizenry would once again trust a Democrat with the White House.

It took the Democrats years to dig themselves out of that hole, helped largely by such pro-defense, pro-Gulf War senators as Al Gore and Joe Lieberman. It is all now being undone by Iraq. The party's latent anti-war fervor has resurfaced with a vengeance -- in Connecticut, quite literally so.

In the short run, as in the Vietnam days, there will be ``success'': a purging of hawkish Democrats like Joe Lieberman. There might even be larger victories. Enough Ned Lamonts might be elected in enough states to give one or both houses to the Democrats. But even that short-term gain is uncertain. Lamont might not even win his own state. He narrowly beat Lieberman in a voter universe confined to Democrats. In November, independents and Republicans will join the selection process.

But even assuming some short-term victories, where will the Democrats be when the war is over and Bush is gone?

Lamont said in his victory speech that the time had come to ``fix George Bush's failed foreign policy.'' Yet, as Martin Peretz pointed out in The Wall Street Journal, on Iran, the looming long-term Islamist threat, Lamont's views are risible. Lamont's alternative to the Bush Iran policy is to ``bring in allies'' and ``use carrots as well as sticks."

Where has this man been? Negotiators with Iran have had carrots coming out of their ears in three years of fruitless negotiations. Allies? We let the British, French and Germans negotiate with Iran for those three years, only to have Iran brazenly begin accelerated uranium enrichment that continues to this day.

Lamont seems to think that we should just sit down with the Iranians and show them why going nuclear is not a good idea. This recalls Sen. William Borah's immortal reaction in September 1939 upon hearing that Hitler had invaded Poland to start World War II: ``Lord, if only I could have talked with Hitler, all this might have been avoided.''

This naivete in the service of endless accommodationism recalls also the flaccid foreign policy of the post-Vietnam Democratic left. It lost the day -- it lost the country -- to Ronald Reagan and a muscular foreign policy that in the end won the Cold War.

Vietnam cost the Democrats 40 years in the foreign policy wilderness. Anti-Iraq sentiment gave the anti-war Democrats a good night on Tuesday, and may yet give them a good year or two. But beyond that, it will be desolation.

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About The Author

Charles Krauthammer is a 1987 Pulitzer Prize winner, 1984 National Magazine Award winner, and a columnist for The Washington Post since 1985.

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Lamont Victory
Like a sinking ship, the Democrats are standing fore while their party ship slips aft first into the ocean, raising them up and giving them a false sense of victory before they sink .
In watching his victory speech, I saw Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton behind him, I understand Maxine Watters campaigned in Ct.Hopefully, they will continue to be seen behind Lamont.While such notables may work in Connecticut, I can assure the Dems that these flim flam artists do them no good in about 35 of our 50 states. Lastly, the Dems in Ct. split 52/48 for Lamont, not a rousing endorsement for the appeasers. He will lose to Joe in the Nov. election.The 52/48 split is what the Dems are all about, half want to cut and run, the other half complain about Bush policy, neither offer any serious alternatives that the majority of Americans would consider realistic.
The Dems are in deep trouble, Kerry/Kennedy/Schumer/Durbin/Pelosi/Clinton could not win election as dog catchers in most of the US. They are hateful, bitter, sore losers , who have no foreign policy other than to give up our national interests to the UN.
All America needs to know about the dems is what Harry Reid extolled "I stopped the Patriot Act", heaven help us, the Dems will not.
MRSHU

A false choice
The republican candidate running against Lamont, Alan Schlesinger, is weak, with a gambling reputation (conservatives will well remember what gambling did for William Bennett) using a false name. Result: L-O-S-E-R

Okay, as usual, there is no real meaningful choice, but simply the lesser of two evils. While conservatives might well expend their votes in vain, giving Lamont the seat, it is entirely possible that realistic republicans will realize that a pro-war Lieberman, who may be liberal but not entirely irrational, is better than an inexperienced, one-issue millionaire liberal buying a seat in the Senate.

While no one "wants" war, sometimes they are necessary. Want to buy a slave? Sorry, but we fought a war to end this practice. Want a European Union that was unionized by Hitler in the 40's? Sorry, but we fought a war to prevent this.

Wars don't solve anything? Wars solve EVERYTHING of any consequence...and the War on Terrorism is not a "choice": it's is inevitable and it's already started. We have simply chosen not to respond for a couple of decades while the terrorists have been playing unopposed since Iranian college students committed an act of war by invading our sovereign territory in the form of our embassy there: American soil, by definition.

Want to sit back and assume that terrorists will simply go home and leave in peace if we leave Iraq? This is probably not the way the "smart money" would bet. While we were peaceful, they fought a one-sided battle...and the results were horrible.

Lieberman seems to be the only rational choice... and there's a sweetener: having been effectively shunned by his "colleagues," odds are he won't be a rubber stamp for ultra-libs from the Northeast, who've already "stamped" him big time... and with great fanfare.

Given a "choice" between a weak republican, a pro-war democrat, and the darling of the Angry Left (the Retail buyer candidate), I hope that Connecticut republicans will go for the lesser of two evils, as the republican simply isn't a viable choice.

And there's always the exquisite anguish that will appear in our major newspapers as the candidate they have flogged has his head handed to him. Of course, it's always possible that the liberal "shield" against media intimidation will work in Lieberman's favor.

Lamont has chosen to enter the playground just as the game has changed from softball to hardball. Do you want him on YOUR team? Especially given that the GOP candidate is sidelined with ethical injuries (a double life)?

I look for Lieberman to be right back in his Senate seat in the his next term.






Lamont's 'Victory'
How many people, other than people such as Gen. George Patton, would come right out in public and admit they LOVE war or even want war. Most people will publicly decry war, yet in the privacy of the polling booth will acknowledge the need for it.

Everything predicted short term ...
in this column changes with the events of yesterday. Even Dick Morris predicted the dems will lose this fall because of the thwarting and arresting of the islamists on 8-10-06. Using (surprise, surprise) some of the systems (and alliances) put in place by President Bush's administration's efforts in the war against evil the U.S., Britain and Pakistan averted an attack that could well have exceeded 9-11. The public is not dumb and they will recognize how this victory was obtained and give credit to the Republicans (if the Repub's stand behind Pres. Bush).

The left is not the Party of appeasement
The degree to which people like Krauthammer misread the left is astonishing.

We on the left are not opposed to fighting terror, or any other menace on the planet. We're just opposed to fighting stupid, unnecessary wars. We're also opposed to presidents who lie in order to either get us into a war, or keep us in a failed war.

We also don't think it's possible to bomb the Islamo radicals into liking us. Do you really think there going to to stop wanting to blow up planes if we install puppet governments in their homeland? The right's strategy in this conflict is idiotic to the extreme. It has ZERO chance of long term success.

The only way we'll ever truly be safe is if they no longer want to blow up our planes.

How do we accomplish that?

In this case, I think we have to engage in a massive communications effort to demonstrate to them that the reason their society has failed so miserably is because they have a closed intellectual system. The reason for their failures is not the West, but the Mullahs who shut down their minds and refuse to allow them to read and think whatever they want to. If we can get the majority of Muslims to see that they're being brainwashed by their Mullahs, they just might turn on the Mullahs.

I know you hawks will hate this next suggestion, but hear me out: We also need to do a mea culpa. We need to formally and openly acknowledge and apologize for some of our actions over there (especially the overthrow of Mosedegh in 1953). I know, it's not in Republican's DNA to admit mistakes and apologize, but the Muslims have an enormous amount of pride, and as long as they feel used and abused by the West their pride will continue to fuel their rage. By apologizing, they will regain some sense of pride and dignity and they will also lose some of their desire to kill us.

By the way, this is not a plan of appeasement. Apeeasment would be to pretend everything is fine and give them whatever they want to shut them up temporarily. I'm suggesting that we use logic and reasoning (rather than bombs) to strike at the source of their hatred––the brainwashing Mullahs. And I think we should hit them with everything we've got.

Yes, it's a long term strategy, so in the meantime, beef up homeland security and triple our intelligence resources.

The left doesn't believe in not fighting. We believe in fighting intelligently. See the difference? Or is that too subtle for you folks?

Phylo out.



I wonder
...how many of those libs are rethinking their votes. Well probably none, because they have the idea that there is paradise on earth and as long as they keep saying it and elect others who say it, all is well.

Some things are certain- the dem party leaders are self-delusional, naive, elitist and liars; some are crazy and ALL think they know, better than we do, what is right for all. The rank-and-file dem voter is stupid and dependent. They ALL call themselves "liberal" or "progressive", which they are NOT (what's wrong with the rep party is for another post at another time...).

I was born and bred in New England, and when I left Ct last year, it was for good, never to return. The politics are a big part of what drove my family out. Here is what I see happening: Lamont is already seen, outside the academic corridors, as a nutjob who represents the bigger nutjob core of the dem party; the reps will run a worthless pseudo-republican as they are wont to do in NE who MIGHT pull in enough votes to fill one ballot box; the BIG winner will be Leiberman. Any dems left with some matter in the brain pan will vote for him as will independents and some cross-over reps.
THIS will be the outcome.

Republicans Desperate for Victory..
It's really amusing watching the increasingly defensive, beleagured, despondent and dis-illusioned Republicans overreaching for anykind of victory in President Bush's failed War on Terror.

So now a victory by Ned Lamont over Joe Lieberman in tiny Conneticut is supposed to be the death of the Democratic Party and lead to a takeover by the anti war movement?
Thats the RNC talking point being echoed by all the right wing conservatives..i have seen at least a dozen instances of rhetoric/propaganda just like Krauthammers article.

It is utterly ridiculous in its assumptions about the left and democrats.

Secondly, according to the right, the foiled
London "plot" justifies and reinforces that President Bush and Prime Minister Blair have been correct all along in giving the intelligence community the tools the need to defeat "radical islamist" and that their is a "connection" between the Iraq war and the "terrorist"..The left has been WRONG.

again a ridiculous intepretation of events and
wrongheaded assertions about the left.

What these events point to is that the war in Iraq is unneccessary diversion to fighting the
War on Terror. Osama bin Laden(whom repubs/cons never mention) is still free and operating with a renewed, reorganized Al Qaeda that is fighting and planning attacks in many countries. In the meantime Bush/Blair fiddle in Iraq, claiming its the " frontline in the war on terror" and that "spreading democracy" will end the confrontations.

Repubs/cons are becoming increasingly desperate looking for "anything" to justify their failed policies.

Phylo's Phriday Phollies
Phylo types, "We on the left are not opposed to fighting terror, or any other menace on the planet. We're just opposed to fighting stupid, unnecessary wars."

After World War I, Kosovo, and, by your own calculations, Vietnam, you're going to need some concrete evidence for that assertion.

"We're also opposed to presidents who lie in order to either get us into a war, or keep us in a failed war."

Again, after Kosovo...

"We also don't think it's possible to bomb the Islamo radicals into liking us."

Personally I don't give a [insert expletive of your choice here] if they like us or not. Fighting the [insert other expletive of your choice here] worked at Tours.

"Do you really think there going to to stop wanting to blow up planes if we install puppet governments in their homeland? The right's strategy in this conflict is idiotic to the extreme. It has ZERO chance of long term success."

Depends on how you define long-term. "Puppet" governments worked for @25 years in Iran.

"The only way we'll ever truly be safe is if they no longer want to blow up our planes. How do we accomplish that?"

Yes, please enlighten us, Phylo; the "infidel" world has been wondering how to stop Islamic bloodlust since the 7th century AD.

"In this case, I think we have to engage in a massive communications effort to demonstrate to them that the reason their society has failed so miserably is because they have a closed intellectual system."

Brilliant! You mean, like technology that lets full-color moving images and crystal clear sound be beamed instantaneously around the world? Or some kind of system where you can search billions of words and images and post your own thoughts for anyone in the world to read?

Or do you mean the CONTENT of the communication? You mean, like America being a generally fair and decent country, and our ways are something for the world to emulate? Hell, you can't even get a majority of AMERICAN LIBERALS to agree to that!

"We need to formally and openly acknowledge and apologize for some of our actions over there (especially the overthrow of Mosedegh in 1953). I know, it's not in Republican's DNA to admit mistakes and apologize, but the Muslims have an enormous amount of pride, and as long as they feel used and abused by the West their pride will continue to fuel their rage. By apologizing, they will regain some sense of pride and dignity and they will also lose some of their desire to kill us."

Setting aside the fact that we still wait for their apologies for the Barbary Pirates and the Ottoman Empire's war against us (OK, maybe WW I had some good points); Mossadegh was allied with the Ayatollahs of his day, thus our backing the Shah saved them from Ayatollah rule for a quarter-century. For what, exactly, should we apologize?

"I'm suggesting that we use logic and reasoning (rather than bombs) to strike at the source of their hatred––the brainwashing Mullahs. And I think we should hit them with everything we've got."

But -- you just said we should apologize for saving Iran from the Mullahs for 25 years WITHOUT bombs-- so, what exactly should we "hit them with?"

"Yes, it's a long term strategy"

Yes, I have to agree with you here -- logic and reasoning (and groveling) hasn't worked in the last 1200 years, so it'll be a damned long term.

"The left doesn't believe in not fighting. We believe in fighting intelligently. See the difference? Or is that too subtle for you folks?"

Perhaps, if in your entire screed you had mentioned ONE example of "fighting," we'd be able to grasp your deep phylo see fickle subtlety.

Head in the Sand Foreign Policy
Contrary to what Left and Phylo (and to a small degree Charles himself) have been arguing, this is not about elections per se. It is about defining this nation’s foreign policy in such a way that we can survive in a world that is brutally hostile to our way of life. The Left’s mantra of “We are for the war on terror but not for the war in Iraq” is the death of their credibility to defining policy. This Head in the Sand approach leaves them exposed to their true nature. “Fight the war on terror only if it involves not fighting. Fighting the war on terror should never involve picking up arms to do battle. It should involve sitting down and discussion the issues over nice cup of herbal tea. If only we understood these poor people who only want to survive and live peacefully in this world. Then they won’t hate us.”

BAH!!!

That is most assuredly what the fascists want. It gives them time to reach around our comfy chairs and plant that dagger square in our backs. These are undeniable facts that the Left will continue to deny:

1. The war in Iraq is a large part of the war on Terror
2. Islamo-fascists want to kill every last Jew in the world and want to subjugate the rest of the world to their ideology
3. It will take fighting, death, and much bloodshed before this war is over
4. We will have to shed blood to secure this nation and most of the world
5. Israel must survive in order keep our nation safe
Imagine the world where the US immediately pulls out of Iraq and Israel is pushed into the Mediterranean. Imagine the strength of the Islamo-fascists as they gain control of Iraq / Jordan / Lebanon / Saudi Arabia / Pakistan / Afghanistan / Palestine (kiss Jerusalem goodbye) / Egypt / Morocco / Spain. That is the reality of the Left’s foreign policy.

Charles Is Exactly Right
God I love reading Krauthammer's essays. On Politics he is dead on correct and it is a pleasure to read such articulate, clear analysis.

Best of all, we conservatives can point out the folly of the Anti-War Left all day long and they'll never, ever listen to us no matter how many times they fail.

Phylo:
You wrote: "We also don't think it's possible to bomb the Islamo radicals into liking us"

You're right.

However, we can bomb them into being dead.

Phylo: more
I will preface by saying that I lived in Tehran from 1962 - 1967, while the Shah was still in power.

You wrote: "In this case, I think we have to engage in a massive communications effort to demonstrate to them that the reason their society has failed so miserably is because they have a closed intellectual system. The reason for their failures is not the West, but the Mullahs who shut down their minds and refuse to allow them to read and think whatever they want to. If we can get the majority of Muslims to see that they're being brainwashed by their Mullahs, they just might turn on the Mullahs."

That is an incredibly naive statement, but unfortunately a commonly held belief on both sides of the political divide. It will never work. NEVER. One of the few moderating influences of the region was the Shah, a man dedicated to bringing Iran into the modern era. Look what happened to him. The only way the extremists were ousted from Turkey was for the Ottomans to do so by purge.

"I know you hawks will hate this next suggestion, but hear me out: We also need to do a mea culpa. We need to formally and openly acknowledge and apologize for some of our actions over there (especially the overthrow of Mosedegh in 1953)."

Not only is the mea culpa idea horrible by its very nature (the Middle Eastern/Arab mentality despises any show of weakness), but the institution of the Shah was a very good thing for Iran. That was the only period of stability Iran has enjoyed for a veeerrry long time.

I predict
The Republicans will retain a majority in the House and maybe lose a seat or 2 in the Senate, but the Dims will NOT take over. There's just too many regular folk in the middle of the country that DO NOT TRUST DEMOCRATS TO KEEP US SAFE. The left and Lamont-types just DON'T have a viable strategy to keep us safe from those that would KILL us -- because we're infidels. People like Leftangle and Phylo would try to "talk" to these Muslim extremists, and at the negotiating table (if it would get that far) the fanatics would SAW THEIR HEADS OFF. WAKE UP!! THEY WANT US DEAD!! WHY DON'T YOU GET IT!!

Right mined mom: What makes you think..
that you are safe now as we speak with republicans in control? please explain.

LeftAngle
Safer than if Albore or Jean Francois Kerry were Prez.

We'd be dithering about melting icebergs with the Boremeister, or just plain dithering in Le Kerry's case while he ran around checking with the French on whether or not we should maybe take a position that we might want to consider changing if the Germans...

Man, I made myself dizzy!

Whats Up Brian R?...
havent seen you in here the past couple of days.

what you just wrote is strictly an opinion...

IMHO with the open borders the U.S. has it doesnt matter who is in charge..the country is unsafe period..

What's the deal?
Why is everyone seeing broader defeat for the GOP in November based on a Democrat primary this week? I don't see how a liberal senator losing a primary to a far left candidate in a liberal state spells doom for the GOP come November. Just because Lamont won the primary does not mean that the general election is his; lets wait for ALL the voters of Connecticut to have their say before we give the nutroots the victory. Remember, this is just a single battle; the war has not been completed just yet!

Dem Nov win gets us NUKED by Iran MidRun
Dr. Krauthammer may well be correct, but if the Democrats win either house of Congress this Fall, I look for Iran to develope nukes and, after ruining our economy with oil prices, take out 20-25 of our cities (launching missles from the decks of freighters) in 5-10 years.

Response to Leftangle
Our country has not had a major attack on our soil in 5 years -- that's my proof. If Algore or John Francois Kerry were in the White House -- I am convinced -- this would not be the case.
Please realize that Democrats like you are NOT our enemies or evil, just very reluctant to face the reality of Islamic totalitarianism. Living in the fantasy world of Democrats, where someone they can beat up on (George W.)is the enemy, must be fun, but IT'S NOT REALITY. This fantasy world that the netroots have invented will serve them well UNTIL they or theirs are killed by Jihadhists.

rightminded mon: a response
you said:

"Our country has not had a major attack on our soil in 5 years -- that's my proof. If Algore or John Francois Kerry were in the White House -- I am convinced -- this would not be the case."

That first part of your statement maybe a fact, but doesnt necessarily correspond to anything
Bush has done..The second part of your statement
is pure speculation, not a fact.

We on the left are aware of who the enemy is.
We would just go about fighting them diffently.

RightMindedMom (for starters)
The most devastating terrorist attack ever to take place on American soil occurred during George Bush's watch (nine months into it, so it can't be claimed he was just getting settled!) Although Bush and the others in his band of incompetents were warned repeatedly to beware of terrorists, they did absolutely nothing to protect the country. Dick (me before I dick you) Cheney chaired an anti-terrorism committee that never met! A month before 9-11, as he began the longest vacation in presidential history, Bush was handed a PDB specifically alerting him about bin Laden's aims, and ignored it. (That's great: let in a grand slam homer in the second inning get credited with a no-hitter!) Terrorist attacks worldwide have skyrocketed, from 175 in 2003 to 655 in 2004, for example, after which the State Department began withholding figures from the public (Wonder why?) So, please don't try to tell me how safe we all are.
Our Moron in Chief is busily bankrupting the country, pushing the national debt from $6 to $8 trillion, while squandering $6 billion a month in Iraq using money borrowed from Communist Chinese banks. When Republicans aren't cutting benefits and health care for our veterans, they're overextending the National Guard, so that 2 out of 3 NG units currently report themselves not fit to serve. Far from having a military capable of fighting on two major fronts at once - Rummie's previous claim - we now have a force that's barely hanging on in one and even then only manages to maintain troop strength by extending soldiers to two or even three tours past their original commitment.
With the hopelessly incompetent Condi Rice in State and the buffoonish Bolton at the U.N. our foreign diplomacy is a shambles: Iran and North Korea openly thumb their noses at us, while nuking up; and Putin uses Bush as his butt boy for public jokes. Oh, yeah, I forgot all the billions we're pouring into Reagan's Folly, the "missle defense system" that has never demonstrated a single successful intercept, even with set up targets.
The middle east is going up in flames, while we progressively alienate the rest of the world that doesn't hate us already, and the arrested adolescence crowd on this site echo the Boy Emperor, chanting "Bring it on!"
If the Dems tried their hardest to screw up the country and diminish our security, they couldn't do any worse than the mendacious, self-serving
idiots that have been in charge for the past five and a half years, whose only hope now is to run more lies up the flagpole and hope they can steal one more election. I don't think they can get away with it. Better than sixty percent of the public has caught on to them and it's going to become worse by November. Even vote tampering won't swing this one and then church'll be out. The Dems will have subpoena power and the lid's going to come off all the crooked and dirty dealing. I'd say Delay, Frist and the rest should start trying on orange jump suits now and avoid the rush.
As for all the paper tigers who post so much tough talk here, the army's currently taking enlistees into their forties and relaxing the restrictions on skinheads and neonazis, so most of you could probably get in. Why don't you sign up now, go over to Iraq, and put your own lilly white butts on the line? Send somebody home who doesn't want to die to put money in Dick Cheney's annuity.

Hey, LeftAngle
Yeah, it was just my opinion, of course.

Man, the last couple of days! Thanks for noticing, though.

Lots and lots of work, my desktop crashed, my daughter's car broke down in the middle of nowhere...

Hey, having fun now!

For those interested
I just wrote an essay, on my blog, on this topic. Just click on my name, above, if you're interested.

Left Angle
"What these events point to is that the war in Iraq is unneccessary diversion to fighting the War on Terror."

Because? You make your assertions without argument, left angle, and besides, your isogesis of the foiled terror plot is showing. If the terror plot had succeeded because the investigators that would have foiled the plot had been called to Iraq for soldier duties, then you could call it a diversion.

But that didn't happen. Resources were on hand to prevent to foil the scheme. Get it? The Iraq war wasn't a diversion for the foilers of the plot, now was it?

This is even besides arguing that the Iraq war is just another theater of the GWOT. Your theory does not describe the data.

NRALifer's fictitious history
In addition to your apparent confusion about the meaning of “appeasement”, you show scant regard for historical fact in your post. Taking your points one by one:

Joe Kennedy was an isolationist, who resisted American involvement in the war in Europe and supported Chamberlain’s overtures to Hitler. You may call this “appeasement,” but in fact, isolationism was a well regarded political position in the United States at that time. Like other isolationists Kennedy believed he was following George Washington’s famous admonition to “avoid foreign entanglements.”
Let’s contrast his actions with those of Prescott Bush, who in the1930s and ‘40s actively collaborated with Nazi business interests, persisting in this even after he had been forced by the government to divest his holdings in five of them.

FDR presided over the largest war effort in American history, a hugely successful one, I might add. Even conservative revisionists admit that he showed at the most poor judgement in dealing with Stalin. Besides, no matter what the agreements were, it was quite clear that the US could choose between war with the Soviets and giving them permission to do what they already intended in Eastern Europe.
The claim that Ronald Reagan “defeated” the Soviet Union is ridiculous on its face. If you paid attention to events during the decades before Reagan took office, the signs of Soviet collapse were everywhere, in their repeated failed “Seven Year Plans” and much else. The problem was that American intelligence wasn’t paying attention, but after the fact there was virtually universal concensus we should have seen it coming. Reagan had little to do with it.

U.S. casualties in Vietnam were almost equal before and after 1968, when Nixon took over the White House.
http://www.lies.com/wp/2003/10/20/us-deaths-in-vietnam-and-iraq-by-month/

In your account of the Korean War, you leave out the crucial fact that China had made it clear it would not countenance a North Korean defeat and had already begun sending troops across the border into North Korea, when MacArthur was “pissing in the Yalu River.” The only way to prevail at that point would have been to declare war on China, an insane policy, which didn’t keep MacArthur from pressuring Truman to attack unilaterally with 30-50 nuclear bombs. It was his intransigence on this issue that ultimately led to his dismissal.

Regarding JFK, whether they were wise moves or not, the ill fated Bay of Pigs invasion and the embargo can hardly be called “appeasement.” You need to pay attention to what words mean.

Carter was actually a fine president, but unlucky. If not for the error of a helicopter pilot in the Iranian desert, the military mission he approved to free the hostages could well have succeeded, making him a hero instead of a goat. Nevertheless, it was his patient, protracted negotiations that laid the groundwork for the ultimate release of the Iranian embassy hostages. If anyone thinks that Reagan didn’t make an illegal and possibly treasonous deal to provide arms to Iran in exchange for delaying the hostage release until after his inauguration, they’re even more naive than you are.

Clinton’s record against terrorism is so far superior to that of the present incumbent that it’s hard to know where to begin. For one thing, even though the first WTC bombing occurred within a short time of his taking office, Clinton’s Justice Department successfully apprehended, prosecuted, and convicted those responsible. They’re still in prison. Near the end of his administration, the so-called Millenium Plot was detected and foiled. Right wing revisionists like to claim that this was blind luck. If the plot had been successful, Clinton would have been blamed for establishing a climate that produced negligent border guards, so he gets credit for alert ones too. You can’t have it both ways.
This record should be contrasted with the nine months leading up to the 9-11 attack, during which Bush and his cronies stubbornly ignored repeated warnings (from Clinton officials!) about the dangers of terrorist attacks and during which his Justice Department actively suppressed specific information (e.g. about Zacarias Moussaoui,) that would have led to discovery of the plot. At the time the attack was being finalized and carried out, Bush was wasting time, as usual, cutting brush on his phony “ranch” in Texas and ignoring the duties of his office (for which he should be impeached.) Things haven’t changed since then. During Bush’s tenure terrorist attacks against American interests abroad have increased by orders of magnitude, not just by 50%.
We’re now involved in a disastrous, unwinnable quagmire in Iraq, wasting billions of dollars and hundreds of brave young lives every month, all on the basis of the lies told by this unprincipled inbecile. In this, as in most other ways, he ranks as the worst president in American history.

Re: Ajhil
Tell me something, if the signs were all over that the USSR was about to fall why were Dems still calling for nuclear freezes, detente, and unilateral arms reductions right up until the CCCP actually fell? And if our intellegence operations were so bad, doesn't some of the blame rest at the feet of the Church Committee and the Dem controlled Congress that put all sorts of shckles on how they conducted operations and cut their budgets to the bone?

As for JFK his leaving those men on the beach at the Bay of Pigs was a truly dishonorable act, especially after having promised them air support. It was alos shameful that JFK made a back channel promise to Kruschev that the US would never invade Cuba, thus allowing Castro a free hand to oppress the Cuban people and drag them into an economic hell. And the embargo that you say is not appeasment has never hindered Castro from living the good life, but has only had adverse effects on the populace on the island.

And I love how you liberal revisionists always bring up the Millenium Plot as evidence that the Clinton administration was on the look out for terrorism. Hah! No one here is claiming that 'blind luck' was the reason the plot was foiled; it just was not some act by a member of the ever vigilant Clintonistas that saved the day. It was the work of a good customs/border official that foiled the plot and all of the talk about how Slick Willie saved the day is only done in an attempt to burnish Bubba's legacy; it has absolutely o basis in fact!

Furthermore, the idea that treating terrorists like regular criminal defendants is absurd! Doing so allows the defense to probe into the ways that the G goes about tracking terror suspects and is a boon for the terrorists because they now know how to avoid detection! And another thing, how much of a deterrent is a prison sentence to someone that is just aching to die for his cause? How much info are you going to get from these people by simply locking them in a jail? The only way to deal with the terrorists that have declared war on us is to take the war to them...anything else is just a waste of time!

And for the rest of your rant, I don't think I'll respond to the usual moonbat talking points from the Kos. They are too vapid and stupid to even warrant one.

ajhil:
So much in your post to address; so little time.

I'll restrict myself to your kudos to Carter.

At the time he was President, long before the internet, I took the time and expense to send to him a Western Union telegram telling him that in my opinion he was probably the most inept President in the 20th Century, if not American history.

Where to begin? There's just so much fertile ground.

His military blunder, which you blame on one pilot's mistake, was a ludicrous attempt to accomplish a major military mission utilizing forces waaaaaaaaay too small to do the job. Particularly with the technical capabilities of the time. Even with SF (and I spent a year of my service with the Beanies in Nam, and this wasn't very much afterward. I also lived for 5 years in Tehran). No way was that mission going to succeed. As a matter of fact, that collision may have been a blessing in disguise, preventing even greater casualties among both the rescuers and their rescuees.

I remember at the time, when reading of the plan, thinking it was a Rube Goldberg contraption that was doomed to failure. Whoever thought it up was a lunatic, and shouldn't be allowed out in public without a leash-holder.

Under Carter's care, interest rates on home loans zooooooomed from 8% to over 24%.

Unemployment skyrocketed.

We were all told not to use our home HVAC units. Use blankets and sweaters in the winter, and strip down in the summer.

I was too young to have any investment capital, but I remember the stock market wasn't doing too well (to understate the situation).


The Shah of Iran, the only enlightened leader in the non-Israel Middle East, and a true friend to the West, was deposed by an insane Islamic fundamentalist named Khomeini.

The American embassy (where I used to play football when I was in high school) was taken over by a bunch of ragtag thugs, and its employess were held captive for 444 days.

As a matter of fact, and I'm sure great coincindence, they were released the day Reagan took the oath of office. What a coinky-dink!

In the modern era, the guy can't seem to keep his mouth shut. He typifies the stereotype of the guy with verbal diarrhea and mental constipation. My diagnosis of his problem: Cranial Rectitus, a problem very resistent to typical medical treatment. Only large doses of logic and rational assessment seem to relieve the symptoms.

Hope that helps.

Krauthammer: more idiocy
Krauthammer's death knell for the democrats, and his 'cranial rectitus' view (in brainR's medical lexicon) of the Iran question, are pure idiocy. As expected from a neocon.

Iran First.

"There will be no talking our way out of the opposition of France, German and the others. The only tonic for that oppostion will be an American victory that changes the landscape of the region. France will be speaking very differently of the United States when a decent, democratizing, pro-American government in liberated Baghdad begins its rule -- and opens bids for oil contracts. Our cynical sometime-friends will astonish us with their, umm, flexibility as they accommodate themselves to the reality of a Middle East without Saddam, without his weapons of mass destruction...."

Well, Charles, you sure missed it by a mile in your column of 24 Jan 2003. 3 1/2 years on, and we've got an ongoing disaster in Iraq. And what say you now? LETS GO AFTER IRAN!

Insert 'Tehran' for 'Baghdad' and 'mullahs' for 'Saddam' in the above excerpt, and you've got Krauthammer talking today.

Good god. Don't neocons ever learn? What horrors next for young American men and women?

Anyone with even a 3-yr sense of history can see the error in Krauthammer's statements about Iran and indeed the Middle East. But then again, he's a lapdog for the Israeli lobby, W and his gang of lying cronies, so what would you expect him to say? Truth supported by facts? Not hardly.

"Negotiators with Iran have had carrots coming out of their ears in three years of fruitless negotiation." [At least Krauthammer realises carrots are not a fruit.]

No negotiation. Lets isolate Iran, apply sanctions, and surely that will bring them into line. Iran's people will probably overthrow the mullahs and welcome the new USA Embassy staff with, what did Rummie, Wolfie or some other of W's chickenhawks say of the Iraqis - flowers and open arms? Good grief. Foreign policy by Charlie Brown would certainly be more effective than the lame neocons verson thereof.

What more can I say? Krauthammer's a warmonger who does not recognize or admit to failed policies and hence is unable to learn from them.

God save us from his ilk.


On to the Democrats and Lieberman.

I for one am glad Lieberman is gone. He is unable to admit his errors on Iraq, and apparently continues to think that winning in Iraq there is critical to the security of the American people. Why must we win? There were no weapons of mass destruction found, Iraq has no navy to speak of, so what were/are the Iraqis going to threaten the US? Start exporting IEDs to plant at Hollywood & Vine? I'm simplistic but I don't see us winning, unless we find a new defintion thereof.

The rejection of Lieberman was a victory for moderates and realists who have had enough of the Iraq idiocy and think it was a mistake. And the latest poll numbers suggest that 60% of Americans agree with that. Furthermore, a majority of experts clearly believe that the war in Iraq has weakened America's 'War on Terror.' So what are we doing there?

But Lieberman goes on to suggest that Lamont's recommended changes in Iraq policy would be 'a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England.' How ridiculous.

Lieberman's gone for now, and good riddance.

But Krauthammer somehow manages to suggest that ridding the party of it's Liebermans will be a death knell ('desolation') for the democrats. I guess that 60% of Americans must also be headed for desolation. Better there, with our sons and daughters home, than for these sons and daughters to die in Iraq. And die for what? Non-existent WMDs, non-existent terrorist connections, oh, third idea - rid Iraq of a tyrant and spread democracy. Now we have Sadr (easier to spell than Hussein. Good going, W. Lets continue with a failed policy that is going nowhere. Right.

Fortunately the Administration's total incompetence can no longer be hidden by lies and deceit. The facts are all too clear. We can only hope that, for the sake of the USA, a shift from W and the neocon's lunacy (solve everything with war) starts with the November elections.


brianR: your comments on Carter are illustrative of your own condition, cranial rectitus. If you had any knowledge of economics, you would undertand that the stagflation years following the first oil price shock in 1973 were only cured by Volker's use of the interest rate club. And I note that this lasted thru to 1981. And who appointed Volker? And didn't this lead to the longest expansion in post WWII history (in the 1980s and 1990s? The answer is 'yes' since you're probably unaware of that.

Do I agree with Carter? On many issues, no. However, I believe him to be intelligent, honest, and to honor the facts, three characterisics which are totally absent in the current administration. W's administration will undoubtedly go down as the worst in the history of the USA, particulary in terms of competence and honesty (yes, they're much worse than Nixon).

In the end, W makes me ashamed to be an American. I never thought I would say that. I live overseas, and I am ashamed to admit to being a US citizen. I might add that many of my US friends are also. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the administration's lies/deceit/incompetence (Hurricane Katrina response, anyone), the blind support of Israel regardless of right/wrong - we're a total disgrace.

brianR: apologies
I shouldn't have accused you of cranial rectitus or lacking knowledge of economics. I disagree with you usually, but I enjoy reading your comments.

Hope you'll accept this apology, even from a FORMER republican conservative.

Cheers

Knaves and fools
Flagwaver:
There must be some kind of right wing correspondence course in writing these posts, because you all do it the same way. You even use the same insults, like “moonbat”, over and over and over, like kids yelling taunts on a playground. It’s funny the first few times around, then just boring. Regarding your decision not to continue the debate, after your performance so far, it’s probably the best course.

Neither the Dems nor the Republicans were aware of the imminent fall of the Soviet Union, because they were dependent on the same faulty intelligence and poorly informed “experts” like Condi Rice! However, the concensus among both intelligence experts and historians after the fact is that the decay in the Soviet system was deep and of long standing (for example, the environmental degradation that continues to hinder their economy today.) Reagan’s reckless arms race may have helped tip them over the edge somewhat sooner, but it was in no sense responsible for the fundamental collapse – which was a good thing for the United States. Had the Soviet system been as healthy as experts thought it was at the time, Reagan’s policies, especially the irresponsible deficit spending he encouraged, might very well have wrecked the U.S. economy first.

Your comments about Kennedy, whether true or not, still don’t make his actions appeasement. For heaven’s sake, look the word up.

Restating what I said about Clinton in your own words doesn’t change it. I maintain that, if Clinton would have been blamed for the failure of border guards to catch the contraband (And the would have been; after all, the right blames him for everything, including the weather), then he should get credit for alert guards too.

As for treating terrorists like criminals, the people responsible for the first WTC bombing were apprehended by good police work, prosecuted, convicted, and now languish in prison serving multiple life sentences. Meanwhile Osama bin Laden, who instigated and funded the 9-11 attack (on Bush’s watch) is free and unpunished. You may think that’s a better outcome. I don’t.


Brian R.
The arrogance displayed on these sites never ceases to amaze me. Where did you foks learn that it’s a good idea to strut and boast so egregiously before making fools of yourselves?

If you had bothered to learn anything about the “Desert One” disaster before commenting about it, you’d know that the “lunatic’ who thought it up was Colonel Charlie Beckwith, creator of Delta Force and conservative icon. In fact, it was this particular abortive mission that ended his military career. Carter himself was not enthusiastic about the idea, in spite of considerable public pressure to end the hostage “crisis” quickly, but the Joint Chiefs assured him that Beckwith was the man for the job and backed the project.
From your evidently extensive military experience, you claim that a much larger force would have been necessary. Since the hostages were being held in the middle of a city of nearly 5 million inhabitants in mountainous terrain far from any border or sea coast, a city that was crawling with tens of thousands of armed militants, just what sort of expedition did you have in mind? Beckwith maintained that the only chance for success depended on speed and the element of surprise using a highly mobile (thus small) airborne force. As it turned out, a series of bad breaks and bad decisions led first to aborting the mission, then to disaster, so there’s no way to judge whether Beckwith’s basic assumption was correct. Not being an authority on military tactics, I take no position other than to say that blaming any of the above on Carter is utterly unjustified. He simply relied on the military expertise available to him which, like all presidents he inherited from the previous (Ford) administration.

Thanks to mman, I don’t have to comment on your primitive understanding of the economic problems that assailed the Carter presidency other than to note that if he was responsible for the aftermath of the oil embargos, then you will no doubt blame Bush for the present sky-high oil prices, right?

No, as a matter of fact, I don’t think it a mere “coincidence” that the hostages were miraculously released on the day Reagan took office, in fact, almost to the minute after he took the oath. In fact, I think that members of his staff colluded with the Iranians in direct violation of the International Commerce Acts of 1798, to delay the release until after the election. In view of Reagan’s later criminal activities involving the Iranians, this doesn’t require a great stretch of the imagination.

As for your assessment of Carter as a person, he’s a Naval Academy graduate, submarine commander, former State governor, former President, and since then has become a recognized champion of human rights, active supporter of Habitat for Humanity, founder of the respected Carter Institute, and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. Under the circumstances I thought that only a vile piece of human waste like David Horowitz would speak disrespectfully of Carter; but if you want to add yourself to Horowitz’s august company, be my guest!


Mman accuses...
Krauthammer of "idiocy" which shows his own. Krauthammer is one of the most astute political observers on the scene. If one were to listen to him as often as I do or seek out his columns every week, as I do, one would see that he is rarely wrong in his observations.

Let's Do deal with Iran (and Iraq) first.

Here is one of those areas where K. was wrong- France. France will never be a friend or an ally. It remains such a victim of its own "America envy" that it cannot make decisions to benefit itself if it means it can poke its finger in America's eye. It will never get a chance to "grow up" because it is being bred out of existance by its middle eastern population. There is a real possibility that we could be facing a large muslim nuclear power (that isn't Iran) where France USED to be in another generation. To my mind, Parisians will always be despicable lot no matter what their heritage is. Having said all that, I now ask you, WHERE have we failed in Iraq? And try to answer intelligently. Better yet, allow me- we have NOT. Are we facing a tougher fight against guerillas in the bigger urban areas than we thought we might? Sure. That is not a "failure". Have you spoken to any returning vets? I have and my suggestion to YOU is that you quit listening to the leftists. Their viwepoint is skewed.

We have liberated Iraq and, for most of the country, there is freedom from fear and NO Saddam, NO Uday and Qusay, NO "people shredders", NO gassing of whole populations, NO new mass graves, NO rape rooms. There ARE free elections, an army and police force being trained and gaining in strength and confidence every day, empowered women and the steady re-building and NEW building of the infrastructure.

A few truths we know- and all the sloganizing by the left cannot bury- are: Saddam gave aid, comfort and money to alQaida and other terrorist groups. This is a fact. He allowed them to have training camps in his country where they not only planned their international attacks, but also terrorized the local populations. Saddam HAD WMDs. He had them and USED them against his own citizens. He WAS attempting to obtain the material and to build his nuclear capability. Bush did NOT lie and I don't care about his roll-over-and-play-dead-for-the-left "apology". That just ticked me off. And for all you little "please tell me what to think" lefties, WMD does NOT refer only to nukes.

The Iraqis have had three- THREE- free elections (remember the blue fingers? Maybe you thought they were just cold...)and have written their own Constitution. The Iraqi government and most of the people don't want us to leave yet. They want us to stay until they are strong enough to handle the terrorists on their own. Then they will ask us to go, and we will leave. Period. If we go now, the terrorists (especially Iran)win. THEN will the sacrifices made by our sons and daughters become meaningless. It will be VietNam all over again. But that is EXACTLY what you and YOUR ilk want, isn't it? It thrills you when America's enemies win and she is humiliated.

For the record-the "horrors" that American soldiers face are what human nature decrees every generation. This world will always face evil, demented, megalomaniacal and genocidal despots. I thank God every day that there IS a US to take them on and for a VOLUNTEER military that is the most heroic, humane and mighty the world has EVER known. I am also grateful that most of America's citizens understand that being the wealthiest and ONLY superpower comes with certain responsibilities and sometimes that means you send, and sometimes lose, those you love to protect something so important. My husband and both my daughters served and I couldn't be prouder of these excellent people.
To paraphrase an old book: to those who are given much, much will be expected.

Krauthammer was not wrong 3 years ago, and he is not wrong now. You lefties never cease to amaze me with your whining, your unbroken record of being wrong and your hateful anti-Semitism. A "lapdog for the Israeli lobby"? Are you one of those nuts who sees a "jewish conspiracy" under every bed? I suggest Medved's column this past week for you and the rest of the "jewish conspiracy" whackjobs.

Iran has stated its purpose so often and so forcefully that it amazes me that it STILL escaped your notice. Personally, I would have liked to see Iran become a big glass plate back during the hostage crisis. But no- your side won and now we face them and they are a bigger threat. This administration is showing signs of caving, trying to deal with these savage apes through the UN and with diplomacy. "Tea time at the zoo". I hope W comes to his senses before Iran nukes Israel- something I know you would cheer- or commits some other equally large atrocity.

As to the demonRATS and Lieberman...

Lieberman is NOT gone. He will still be in the Senate after '08. I have already stated what I KNOW the outcome will be. I will say it again. The dem party in Ct has shot itself in the foot and the dems in other states would do well to pat attention. Lamont is a little rich boy who surrounds himself with the absolute worst the left has to offer and it will cost him. The reps will do what the reps ALWAYS do in New England- they will run an absolutely worthless candidate who is republican in name only. Lieberman will run as an independent (are you aware that there are more registered independents in CT than are registered for any other party?), and will draw independents (all of 'em), disgusted democrats and cross over republicans who are buying into Hannity's loving attentions towards Lieberman. I hesitate to predict a landslide, but Lamont is going to lose big. Just for the record- I am no fan of Lieberman. I is an unconstructed leftist with a verifiable voting record. He was willing to throw out what he purports to believe to run with that dork, Gore. This is NO saint.

Carter.

Like many other, I once believed that Carter was, at least, a decent man. Hopelessly stupid, but decent. I know better now. You would think that Carter would be so grateful for being saved from being America's WORST president, ever, by Clinton's squat in the Oval office. But NOOoooo...He keeps opening his mouth and letting all that stupid spill out. Think he is in Cuba right now, holding his old buddy's hand while he dies what is hoped is a terrible, messy and painful death? Carter does love our enemies, but then, he IS just another little leftie, isn't he?

I also lived overseas for several years and went to college while I was there. I met a LOT of folks just like you. Expatriates, with their sandals and little ponytails on balding heads, IDIOT military family members, misguided and just plain dumb, and traveling college students, too young and inexperienced to be anything but dumb. All of these were more than happy to take part in the protests, spew their anti-America hatred so the locals would buy their beer and entertain with their very colorful stupidity. *I* was ashamed of those like YOU. You exemplify the concept of the "Ugly American".

Flagwaver, NRA Lifer, BrianR
You guys are the best. Hey, Flagwaver, I used to be 'none', until I was able to change my nickname.
I have faith that if conservatives make their points with rational arguements, SOME leftists will see the error of their ways, and be converted -- or at least those LEANING left.
This 'neocon' -- a leftist invented term -- loves this country, our president, and our brave soldiers in uniform.
Charles Krauthammer is almost always right.
Check his predictions with history. This guy has insight that surpasses most commentators.

Robyn –
Wow! It’s dark in there, isn’t it? Scary too, I'll bet!
How about answering a few simple question, since you know so much about what's happening in Iraq. (And spare me the sophomoric insults, please. You just demean yourself, you know.)
How many Iraqi civilians are currently being killed every day?
How many hours a day do people in Baghdad currently have electrical power?
Do you think this is progress?

Robyn again -
You see, I'm making this easy: a few questions at a time, no big words ...

In April, 2004, a large USA Today/CNN/Gallop poll found that only one in three Iraqis believed that U.S. forces were doing good and a solid majority favored immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops.

In summer 2006 a World Opinion Poll found that half of Iraqis (9 out of 10 Sunnis) approve of attacks on U.S. forces and a large majority favor a specific timetable for U.S. withdrawal.

In February, 2006 Zogby International found that 72% of American troops think the U.S. should pull out of Iraq within the next year. Better than one in four say they should leave now.

So tell me, Robyn, just who is it that wants us to stay? And how do you know this?

Robyn again -
You see, I'm making this easy: a few questions at a time, no big words ...

In April, 2004, a large USA Today/CNN/Gallop poll found that only one in three Iraqis believed that U.S. forces were doing good and a solid majority favored immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops.

In summer 2006 a World Opinion Poll found that half of Iraqis (9 out of 10 Sunnis) approve of attacks on U.S. forces and a large majority favor a specific timetable for U.S. withdrawal.

In February, 2006 Zogby International found that 72% of American troops think the U.S. should pull out of Iraq within the next year. Better than one in four say they should leave now.

So tell me, Robyn, just who is it that wants us to stay? And how do you know this?

And just WHO the hell are you "ajhil"? I don't believe I was addressing you. But since you have inserted yourself, I'll take a shot. And just so we are clear- you can put on your smarmy attitude and tell me it's "sophomoric" when I insult a worthless, brain dead leftie worm, but let me assure you, my intention IS to demean you. Not that I must apply much effort- you people do that every time you open your mouth or touch a keyboard.

As to polls- I am well aware of how much credibility you place on them. I do not, and since you provide no links, I will assume you are lying as you people so often do. "USAToday/CNN/Gallop" have all the credibility of Bill Clinton and Zogby's polls (which I take quite often and so know exactly how they word their questions) have little credibility as far as I am concerned. YOU live by them- I prefer facts. I know oh so well just how adept the left is at finding someone- anyone- to say what they want them to say. I know the truth. I suggest you do a LexisNexis search for real stories, by real people about what the Iraqis- especially the Kurds- think of our presence and what the soldiers have to say. From what I can tell, cleaving to websites like MoveOn and DailyKos stunts your brain.

Now run along little boy- you are boring me.

Robyn –
(What a pretty name for someone with such a repellent personality!)

Inserted myself in your private conversation? Well darned if I didn’t. My impression is that these blogs are open to anyone who’s registered. Do you know differently?

However I retract my description of your behavior as “sophomoric.” That’s far too generous.

You don’t trust polls? Prefer to cherry-pick anecdotal accounts from Lexus-nexus? That’s cool. Very fact oriented!

So how about answering my first questions: If conditions have improved so much in Iraq because of the invasion,
(1) how many Iraqi civilians are being killed each day now and
(2) how many hours of electrical power do residents of Baghdad get now compared to before the invasion?

That seems straightforward enough for a woman of your scholastic parts.

If you have the guts for a real debate, instead of just

By the way, here are the links you wanted for those polls.

You see, I don’t have to lie, because the facts are on my side.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217741/site/newsweek/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/165.php?nid=&id=&pnt=165&lb=hmpg1

And I know what’s bugging you … why you’re so vulgar and nasty.

You’re simmering with rage, because your side’s done and you know it. Bush and his merry band of incompetents and traitors has fouled things up so thoroughly that even lies and vote stealing won’t save ‘em in November.

And then in January the first two measures that John Conyers will present to the House of Representatives will be bills of impeachment against Bush and Cheney.

What’ll you do then?

ajhil,
"And I know what’s bugging you … why you’re so vulgar and nasty.

You’re simmering with rage, because your side’s done and you know it. Bush and his merry band of incompetents and traitors has fouled things up so thoroughly that even lies and vote stealing won’t save ‘em in November.

And then in January the first two measures that John Conyers will present to the House of Representatives will be bills of impeachment against Bush and Cheney."

Dude, I'm mothballing my crystal ball right now. You got a 900 number?

"What’ll you do then?"

Hey, wait a minute. You don't know? Are you legit?

Robyn: almost too idiotic to respond to
But since I imagine you have Ann Coulter's books on your coffee table, I guess I'll give it a shot. There are some 'gems' in your little tirade.

Krauthammer astute? I suggest you read some of his columns from 1, 2, or 3 years ago to see if he is astute (or correct). However, that would confront you with inconvenient facts which don't correspond with your view (something republicans typically avoid by simply lying or shooting hte messenger). Krauthammer was wrong on Iraq (and if you think that what is going on there now is success, then I'd hate to know what you think failure is) and now is prescribing the same lunacy for Iran. ATTACK, ATTACK (said from the rear, of course. And I know he's paralysed, but I wonder how many of his family relations are in Iraq or the front lines anywhere.)

Maybe I shouldn't have called him an idiot, but he is certainly acting foolishly if, as is apparent, he is unable to learn from or admit to mistakes.

There is no doubt Krauthammer is intelligent, so I'll change my description to foolish. (And I reserve the right to change again).

W come to his senses? That presumes he or ANYONE in his administration (if you could call it that) has any sense. Rather, they are incompetent, unprincipled liars. 'Ask not what the country can do for you, but what it can do for my rich friends and Dickie's former company' seems to be the operative call to arms.

Incompetence -

a. Katrina ("Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job' - where are those Arabian horses anyway?),

b. Iraq, (the tragedy of the ongoing human costs aside, look at the money - Administration estimates of the cost in 2002 were $50-60 Billion; as of August 2006, we've spent $290 billion) Oh, and May 2003, W: "Mission Accomplished!"

c. The 'War on Terror' ('Osama, Osama, come out whereever you are!') And the idiots nominate Julie Myers, 36 yr old niece of Joint Chiefs Chmn Richard Myers, to lead the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, a $4 billion agency with a tremendous role to play in our security. IS THAT TOUGH ON TERROR? Good god, how stupid can W and his boys be? Oh wow, for a year she was an assistant secretary for export enforcement at the Commerce Department. Probably well aware of the terrorist threat there - she didn't let any of those mean old terrorists get exported! And she most recently serves as a special assistant to President Bush handling personnel issues.

This would be laughable, if it were not so serious.

c. social security, (Thank god he truly is incompetent, or W's changes might have got through!)

d. tax cut policy - tremendous budget buster, benefiting largely the rich. And now W's on about eliminating the 'death tax', all those nasty old taxes on estates greater than $2 million single, and $4 million married. I just don't know how these poor heirs will manage! And this will benefit all the little business owners. What a total crock of BS!

e. medicare drug program - a disaster run by, you guessed it, crony incompetents

f. immigration policy (what immigration policy? - but then W is conflicted here - he wants immigrants to work for low wages to help his big business pals, but then the brain-dead religious right doesn't like those poor old Mexicans coming in and speaking spanich instead of 'American')

g. Jack Abramoff (who? - maybe this one should also go under 'lies')

h.etc etc etc

Lies -

1. Mr. Bush's declaration, in his ''Mission Accomplished'' speech, that ''we have removed an ally of Al Qaeda.''

There is NO factual evidence that Iraq supported al Qaeda in ANY operation, training, or in any other way. One meeting with a known alQuaeda operative in a 10yr period does not consititute proof, dear Robyn.

2. Bush's claim during the Kerry depate that "most of the tax cuts went to low and middle-income Americans."

Fact is that 32% of the tax cuts went to the richest 1% of Americans, and 53% went to those in the top 10% of income. And this extracted from the Administration's Tax Relief Kit.

3. Cheney's assetion that they'd found bioweapons labs in Iraq, THREE MONTHS after the Administration's own intelligence analysts concluded that they were not bioweapons labs.

And there are many, many other examples of lies and incompetence. But why bother? The facts are there for anyone to see, all they have to do is look at the them and not try to impugn the messenger.


And the 'truths' you claim are simply ludicrous:

1. Iraq and al-Qaida or any terrorism link is ABSOLUTE BS. Please provide the references for this nonosense. Hussein was a secularlist, and feared the fundamentalists. The idea that he gave aid and comfort to terrorists is a total crock of s___.

2. WMDs - where are they? Why couldn't we find them? Oh, I forgot, he secretly spirited them away to Syria. And he was attempting to obtain the material for nukes - do you read anything besides Ann Coulter? Look at the facts of the Niger case.

Good grief, woman, get a grip. I should have taken my reacted as I first thought - ignore you.

And upon reading your little jewel to ajhil: "my intention IS to demean you ..." I now realise what type of person you are - typical right winger who attacks the person and not the facts. Human equivalent of a Pit Bull. People like you are just one more thing that makes me ashamed to be an American. After this epistle, I'll not respond to you further, so you can crawl back into your hole.

But to conclude,

1. I am not anti-semitic. Israel has a right to exist, but so do the Palestinians. And where was the conspiracy theory in my comments? If one cannot see the lapdog stance of Krauthammer and W to Israel, then they cannot be looking at the facts. How many disagreements in principle have there been?

2. And you say that if Iran nukes Israel, that is 'something I know you would cheer.' That is such a ridiculous statement that all I can say is that it speaks volumes about your character (or rather lack thereof) rather than mine.

3. Me? I was a republican when I went overseas 25 years ago, but now I cannot countenance the lies and decption of most of the right. I run a $100 million business overseas, don't wear sandals or have a ponytail (though I have nothing against those who do), and I wish I were still young.

4. And finally, as for The Ugly American, it is interesting that you should use that stereotype, since Lederer and Burdick's book highlighted American hypocrisy, arrogance, incompetence, and corruption in SE Asia. Maybe we need another version for Iraq: Ugly Robyn, anyone? Nah, that doesn't have a ring to it. Personally I prefer "The Ugly Republican" (the image sure literally fits Ann Coulter, I must add).

Cheers

mman
Impressive post, almost encyclopedic.
Also nice to recognize someone old enough (and literate enough) to spot the dumb misquote about "Ugly American." Isn't it sadly ironic that the theme of the book is once again so apt?

Protest Voting
The vote for Ned Lamont was clearly a protest vote. What's being protested, however, is the wrong thing. While Democrats are protesting George Bush, what they fail to realize is that George Bush is not running for office again. This will, in effect, prove to be the Democrats' downfall, as in times past.

What they need to remember is that 9/11 changed everything.

Since 2000, the Democrats have agonized over losing power. They lost not only the White House but the House and Senate as well. Rather than being rational, however, they have continued this tiresome tirade of "stolen election, he lied, he played on our fears," while the likes of Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, George Soros, et al are pushed to the forefront as representatives of the Democrat Party. Well, if this is the best they have to offer, they shouldn't be surprised that they keep losing elections.

Zell Miller represents the best of the Democrat Party. Joe Lieberman, on the other hand, while siding with Bush on the war on terror, remains an anti-Republican, "he stole the election" Democrat.

Personally, while I disagree with the vote for Lamont, I think it's important for incumbents to realize that they do not have a job for life. This goes for both Democrats and Republicans.

Republicans want to cry over the boot of Joseph Lieberman, but they remain silent on the boot of Cynthia McKinney. Why? Because Lieberman agrees with Republicans on one issue, while Cynthia McKinney agrees on none.

I say let the term limits begin. Vote all idiots out of office, on both sides of the aisle.


Answering Ajhil
In response to your questions:

(1) how many Iraqi civilians are being killed each day now?

It's hard to know how many Iraqi civilians are being killed in Iraq. With so-called academics and peace activists touting biased figures, it's hard to trust such data. On the other hand, it's difficult to know how many of the dead are insurgents, since they choose to hide behind innocent men, women, and children.

As witnessed recently as well, insurgents are not beneath murdering innocent civilians to paint a picture of America just killing innocent civilians nilly willy. They are also not beneath using civilian locations to launch rockets or missiles and then fleeing from the scene, leaving behind the innocent to take the fall for their actions.

Face it, war is war; and people die. Three thousand innocent Americans were murdered on 9/11 without provocation, and over 2,500 of our soldiers have been murdered as well. And how many innocent individuals have lost their heads (literally) by the very people who conveniently classify themselves as "civilians" when it suits them?

By the way, did we ever get a count of the bodies found in all of those mass graves? I wonder how many thousands Saddam murdered?

How many Muslims were murdered when their mosques were bombed by insurgents?

(2) how many hours of electrical power do residents of Baghdad get now compared to before the invasion?

You cannot ask a one-sided question and conveniently neglect to mention the other side.

In 2002, Baghdad had access to electricity on a near continuous basis while the rest of Iraq was limited to 3 to 6 hours daily. The U.S. government has made significant progress in improving electricity supply in Iraq and distributing it more equitably throughout the country, NOT JUST TO BAGHDAD. USAID has added over 1292 MW of new or rehabilitated capacity to the electrical grid. Prior to the war, Baghdad hogged all energy resources, without consideration for the rest of the country.

USAID has helped increase electrical generation to an average daily peak of approximately 4,500 MW. However, estimated total demand in Iraq is 8,500 MW and the looting of cables, destruction of hightension towers, and sabotage of fuel lines persist. Decades of operation without regular maintenance have resulted in increased breakdown and a need for significant rehabilitation.


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