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Friday, August 08, 2008
Caroline Glick :: Townhall.com Columnist
Ignoring Failure in Gaza
by Caroline Glick
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Monday will mark the third anniversary of the forcible expulsion of the Jews of Gaza and northern Samaria from their homes. Those expulsions were followed weeks later by the withdrawal of IDF personnel from the Gaza Strip.

Unlike the Rabin-Peres government's decision to embark on the Oslo peace process with the PLO in 1993, Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza did not take years to be discredited. It took moments.

As the last IDF personnel left Gaza, the Palestinians began torching the synagogues Israel abandoned. Within minutes of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza's border with Egypt, the Palestinians blew up the border wall. They immediately began transferring unprecedented quantities of heavy weaponry into Gaza - a practice that has continued to this day.

Another important distinction between the Oslo policy and the withdrawal policy is that at least Oslo asked the Palestinians to give Israel something in exchange for the land, money, arms and political legitimacy Israel lavished on them. As events would show, Israel asked the Palestinians for too little. But at least Israel asked them for something. The withdrawal policy, in contrast, demanded nothing from the Palestinians. It was simply an unconditional surrender of land. As a result, Hamas -- the terror group which has distinguished itself from Fatah by refusing to even pay lip service to peace -- was the chief beneficiary of Israel's retreat.

The first harbingers of Hamas's ascendance to power came the day after Israel completed its withdrawal. Tens of thousands of armed Hamas terrorists, clad in spanking new uniforms, goose-stepped through the streets of Gaza in their victory parade. The then-ruling Fatah government's own parade was dingy and poorly attended in comparison.

Hamas's pageantry was followed with the jihadist group's decisive electoral victory over Fatah in January 2006. This led to the further weakening of Fatah in March 2007 with the signing of the Mecca accord that rendered Fatah a junior member of Hamas's ruling coalition. The Mecca accord also signaled a shift in the Arab world's sympathies from Fatah to Hamas. That agreement then paved the way for Hamas's violent ouster of Fatah forces from Gaza in June 2007 and its rising challenge to Fatah's leadership in Judea and Samaria.

It should be pointed out that Hamas's victory over Fatah was not a victory of extremists over moderates in any real sense of the terms. Both Hamas and Fatah share the aim of destroying Israel. This was made clear most recently in the lead-up to the Annapolis conference last November. As US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced the coming of peace, Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas refused to recognize Israel's right to exist.

Moreover, there is little to distinguish between the groups' embrace of terrorism as a means of achieving their aim of destroying Israel. Fatah forces have carried out more attacks against Israel than Hamas has.

Hamas's refusal to even pretend that it is willing to live at peace with Israel is what distinguishes it from Fatah. And the Palestinians' embrace of Hamas after Israel withdrew from Gaza demonstrated that the withdrawal increased the popularity of the prospect of continuous war against Israel among the Palestinians.

Hamas's rise to power has changed the nature of the Palestinian conflict with Israel in a fundamental way. It is not simply that Hamas has abandoned the rhetoric of Arab nationalism for the rhetoric of Islamic jihad and so changed the nature of the Palestinian war from a limited struggle to an unlimited war for Islamic domination.

Unlike Fatah, which was beholden to several Islamic countries at once, Hamas is a wholly-owned Iranian proxy. Consequently Gaza, like Lebanon, has become an Iranian colony. And as Hamas's star rises in Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem and within the Israeli Arab community, Iran's influence over events in those quarters rises. This was made clear this week with the revelation that Khaled Kashkoush, an Israeli Arab from Kalansuwa, last month became the latest Israeli Arab arrested for spying for Hizbullah.

GIVEN THE absolute, obvious failure of the Gaza withdrawal, what is most distressing about the initiative is that three years on, Israeli society has managed not to discuss why it failed or to learn the lessons stemming from its failure. There has been no chastening of the political leaders involved. No heads have rolled. There has been no official inquiry into how decisions regarding the withdrawal were made. Indeed, many of the plan's chief proponents have prospered.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert succeeded Sharon to power due in large part to his support for the plan. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni built her entire political career on her role as one of the architects of the expulsion of Israeli civilians from their homes. And today she is the frontrunner to succeed Olmert as head of Kadima and replace him as prime minister until the next elections are held. Her chief opponent, Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz, was defense minister during the operation and an active participant in implementing the ill-conceived initiative.

In contrast, those who opposed the withdrawal remain in the opposition. They are never recognized for their attempts to divert their country from this disastrous course. Indeed, they continue to be castigated as somehow extremist for the fact that they oppose basing Israel's national strategies on capitulation and faith in other people's willingness to defend us.

There are three main reasons that there has never been an accounting for the failure of the withdrawal from Gaza. The first reason is luck. Sharon got "lucky." He was felled by a debilitating stroke and slipped into a coma before the dimensions of the failure of his most significant policy became widely understood.

Since Sharon pushed the withdrawal plan through against the wishes of his government colleagues, his voters and his party by turning the plan into a popularity contest that pit himself against his opponents, once he was gone, there was no way to hold him to account. And his incapacitation itself made discussing the failure of the withdrawal somehow unseemly. After all, it was said, the poor man can no longer defend himself, how dare you add insult to injury by noting that his most significant action while in power imperiled the country? In this manner, not only Sharon, but all his supporters in his government, were immunized from criticism and the need to account for their strategic imbecility.

Israel is presented with a similar situation today with Olmert. Like Sharon, Olmert has not had to face the voters to account for his failures in the Second Lebanon War; for his refusal to act against Hamas's Iranian-backed regime in Gaza; or for his apparent willingness to expand on those failures by seeking to withdraw from Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and so enable Iranian proxies to surround Israel on all sides.

And now, with his announcement that he will leave office not for his substantive incompetence but for his suspected criminal activities, Olmert has removed the substantive causes of his failure in office from the national agenda. In so doing, he has immunized his cohorts, and particularly Livni and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, from the need to account for their continued strategic imbecility.

IT IS the Olmert-Livni-Barak government's serial incompetence that ironically serves as the second reason that there has been no accounting for the failure of the Gaza withdrawal plan. Quite simply, the government has moved from failure to failure so quickly that there has been no opportunity to confront the results of the last failure before the next one is spun out of the government's policy chop-shop.

The most recent example of this high-speed bungling is the government's penchant for releasing terrorists from prison. The public has scarcely had a chance to digest the colossal stupidity and inherent danger of the government's terrorists-for-dead-hostages swap with Hizbullah last month. No serious review of that policy - which enhanced Hizbullah's popularity sufficiently to compel the Lebanese government to formally accept its right to attack Israel at will - has been conducted. And already on Wednesday, fresh from that failure, Olmert announced his intention to expand it by releasing another 150 terrorists from prison by the end of the month.

THE FINAL reason that the failed Gaza withdrawal has not led to any change in either the public discourse or in the general tenor and direction of government policy is because of the debilitating impact the withdrawal had on Israeli democracy. In order to build the public's support for his inhumane and strategically irredeemable decision to expel 10,000 Jews from their homes and destroy their communities in Gaza and northern Samaria in exchange for nothing, Sharon and his colleagues worked systematically to demoralize, disenfranchise and criminalize his political opponents.

He demoralized them by castigating them as criminals, extremists and enemies of the people in general. He disenfranchised them by ignoring the results of the Likud's referendum on his plan that he himself initiated.

In all his activities, Sharon received crucial assistance from the law enforcement system and the media which were themselves corrupted by his plan. As Ha'aretz's left-wing military commentator Amir Oren noted five months after the plan was carried out, Sharon was given a free ride by Israel's elites due to their common "hatred of the settlers."

To enable Sharon to carry out the expulsions they so desired, the state prosecution, backed by the Supreme Court, was willing to close corruption probes of Sharon. As retired Supreme Court justice Michel Cheshin explained, "If Sharon had stood trial, there would have been no disengagement."

More egregiously, as public protests against the withdrawal gained force, Israel's law enforcement system became a tool of political repression, and the media became apologists for that repression. The police conducted mass arrests of law-abiding demonstrators, used brutal force against them and suspended the civil rights of opponents of the plan. The state prosecution and the courts sent thousands of protesters - including children - to jail for weeks and months without filing charges against them.

Then too, Sharon's personalization of the withdrawal distorted the country's public discourse by moving it from substantive discussions of government policies to superficial discussions of personalities. And this transformation has remained in effect until today. It was most recently in evidence in the media's rendering of the debate over the terrorists-for-dead-hostages swap as the personal struggle of the Goldwasser and Regev families against the government.

Sharon's successful repression and castigation of his opponents, and Olmert's successful repetition of Sharon's behavior both in the brutal repression of demonstrators at Amona in February 2006 and in his dismissive attitude towards the protest movement in the wake of the Second Lebanon War, have imbued the public as a whole with a sense of powerlessness. This sense manifested itself with the historically low voter turnout in the 2006 elections.

Israel's prolonged failure to reckon with the disastrous outcome of the Gaza withdrawal bodes ill for the country's prospects. Until the country reckons with the mistakes that led to that withdrawal, and forces those responsible to account for their failings, we will be doomed to repeat those mistakes with those same incompetents leading us over and over and over.

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About The Author

Caroline B. Glick is the senior Middle East fellow at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C., and the deputy managing editor of The Jerusalem Post, where this article first appeared.

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Ignoring Failure
It seems Israel along with Britain want to commit suicide through foppish capitulation to the radical factions of Islam. As an American I can only hope we do follow this path. When a dangerous animal grits his teeth and shows obvious signs of hostility it is not the time to reason. It is the time to show that you too can reach that level of barbarity if needed.

Just Wondering..
..if Townhall had existed during the 80's and 90's whether a British correspondent would have been allowed to keep readers updated with the IRA's (largely US financed) terrorist campaign or would that have been deemed irrelevant on a US website albeit conservative (they did try and murder Margaret Thatcher you know!!)

Reality Check
Is it me, or is the entire world upside down? What ever happened to a world where real men would be able to recognize, confront, and beat the crap out of evil. We as civilized human beings have been completely denuded of the ability to protect ourselves from the onslaught of radical Islam and the flat out evil that it is.

The final battle is coming, and there are going to be A LOT of bodies at the end of it.

The Hope
for Israel is that the end of the Olmert government is in sight. It can be hoped that a future government will be more determined to defend itself, not just against Hamas and Hezballah, but against Iran as well.

Much as the withdrawal from Gaza did not placate Hamas, and the withdrawal from Lebanon did not placate Hezballah, the collapse of Israel will not placate those who see the West as the great satan, it will only incite their thirst for more destruction. As an American, I hope the American and European people and their governments recognize this before its too late.

right about one thing.
Glick is right that it was a mistake to leave Gaza as a capitulation to Hamas. It would have made a lot more sake to do it as a deal with the Abbas government. Unfortunately the Palestinians' experience with Israel is that Israel only respects force, when the Palestinians have worked for peace they have seen settlements grow and vice-versa.

Of course this is the same impression the Israelis have of the Palestinians.

Glick is silly to think that Hamas is a colony of Iran. Hamas is a sunni palestinian group that is happy to accept support from Iran, but one needs to be rather ignorant of the arab world to see them as accepting a colony position. (The shiite group in Gaza is Islamic Jihad which one hears about fairly seldom since shiites are such a minority among the Palestinians).

Gaza was a military millstone, hard to defend with little benefit to maintaining settlements within occupation. Fewer Israelis have died from the abandonment of Gaza than would have had Israel stayed. In that sense the abandoment of Gaza was better than Glick's favored approach of staying. But it was certainly worse than working it out as a deal with Abbas.

Give credit
How much of the credit for the rise of Hamas belongs to the success of American dipomacy?

How much credit should the Clinton administration get for the current relations between Israel and it's neighbors?

wil
Apples and Oranges. The West put Israel on land that was not its own in the middle of the Arab world. And the Arabs never accepted it. Conversely, the idea that those same Arabs pose any meaningful threat to the West outside of the middle east is absurd. They have no meaningful armies, navies or air forces, and no means of transport. The bodies, should they ever decide to leave the middle east will be theirs. The destruction or survival of Israel will have no affect on such an event, and is entirely separate.

This ongoing issue has been with us for 60 years now. It began in war, and is still war by other means - which we call terrorism. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and Bush Jr could do nothing and accomplish nothing to change these dynamics. If the Arabs choose war, then their form of diplomacy is nothing other than a means to advance the goal of their war. And the purpose of that war is to eliminate Israel from that region. And if they refuse to accept Israel's right to exist, then in another 60 years, or 100 years, or whatever, that war will still be with us. Anyone blaming any US President for this is simply ignoring the fact that the conditions cannot be resolved in one party does not want it resolved - and that is the case today.

Ms. Glick likes to complain
but never proposes a solution. Does she want Israel to reoccupy Gaza?
Not recognizing Hamas as a player in this drama is getting us nowhere fast.

There is coming a day
when Arab countries will overplay their hand and cross the point of no return, and Israel will hand them another defeat, but this time it will be a crushing blow.

nice column, glick
i have been trying to encourage our liberals to go someplace that needs them. looks like israel has more than its share already. if only we could get them to live in iran

America and Israel
Israel needs to understand the new mood in America. Many on both sides of the political spectrum (but for different reasons) have reached the conclusion that the US simply cannot continue to support Europe, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Iraq and Israel militarily.

Look what has happened to us in Europe. Unlike any other victor, we picked them up, brushed off their dirty little keisters, pumped millions of dollars into their economies, airlifted Berlin, generally kept them from being overrun by the Communists. What did we get? Another day older and deeper in debt!

Does anyone really think that if Russia decides to invade Germany (like they are invading Georgia right now) that the US won't do the heavy lifting, and the Germans will continue to criticize us while we save their butts? Does anyone think that the Germans will pay us for our help?

We cannot continue to be the world's policeman. Israel is fortunate that they have several hundred nuclear bombs (thanks, Jimmy Carter!) I would suggest planning for a world where support from the US is not a given.

Watcha talkin' 'bout, Willis?
"...at least Oslo asked the Palestinians to give Israel something in exchange for the land, money, arms and political legitimacy Israel lavished on them."

Israel lavished money, arms and political legitimacy on the Palestinians? Where did you get that one, Glick? Your arse?

Now THAT'S chutzpah!
"at least Oslo asked the Palestinians to give Israel something in exchange for the land, money, arms and political legitimacy Israel lavished on them."

Is this a joke? Seriously, is it? The only thing Israel has lavished on the Palestinians is expulsion, misery and death for 60 years.

stop being such a weasel
its silly both the leftists criticising israel blindly saying israel did this that and the other evil thing when a large sector of Israeli society does not support such actions and the rightists who decry the current government doing the responsible thing and trying to deal with the palestinians. Look, Israeli rightist wrigling weasels, why dont you come out and say it, what is the alternative you propose!?!? There are only three alternatives to negotiating with the palestinians:

1) genocide a la Hitler
2) Ethnic cleansing a la Milosovic
3) maintain the status quo as long term solution - become another apartheid south Africa

so which of the 3 is it?!?!?!?!?!?!

the Palestinians currently have no citizenship and exist as legal subhumans within the area controlled by the Israeli army. However you slice it this is fact. So what do you do about it? which of the 3 solutions? I have asked this question so many times and never get a straight answer from the wrigling weasels of the Israeli right.


Global Resentment
Sometimes I think that we are the major, leading "Busybodies" in the world today.
America must stop this foolishness, what other people do and how they live is THEIR business!
Stop criticizing China with "Human Rights" issues, stop meddling in Russias affairs and Bosnia-Kosovo too, for that matter!
Pull our troops back from Germany, Japan and Korea immediately while planning withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan! All this is desirable and could be possible symply by lifting the defeatist-moronic moratorium on exploration of our own vast energy supplies.
The "icing on this cake" could be offering Israel an area equivalent or larger than their state somewhere in our Southwest for them to move into and form their own state there. They know how to make a desert bloom and would be our most valuable buffer against illegal immigration. This would leave the arabs to solve their own problems and eating camel dung if they so desire, while lowering the cost of energy and bringing the shameful transfer of wealth from us to them to an abrupt end.
Let Europe start spending their own treasure for their defense, and if they decide that Sharia law is OK, so let it be!
America has been too meddlesome in world affairs and this must be curtailed, no wonder everyone hates us! The only positive results from all this meddling worldwide is the justification of the far too many politically correct jobs (bureaucrats) at the State Department.

Political Pressure
The powers that be in the west constantly pressure Israel to give up this or that in a vain attempt to bribe the Arabs into leaving them alone. The fact is the elites of the world see Israel as an outpost of western civilization that doesn't deserve to exist. Too many at the State Department see Israel as the problem not the fact that the Palestinians are blood soaked savages intent on finishing what the Nazis started.

All this pressure from their supposed friends and the wear from so many years of defending themselves has left the Israelis disheartened and apparently willing to try anything to gain peace. They should start by destroying Hamas and Fatah. That would require new leadership and much more fortitude than they have been displaying lately.

Rocketeer
You are not alone. I find the term 'our friends the Saudis' more than a little tiring and trying. They don't wish us well; they wish us in hell.

Gaza
Gaza is a refugee camp in to which the Palestinians fled when their homes were taken as Jews began to immigrate to Israel after the second world war. From 1948-1967 Gaza was part of Egypt. In 1967 Israel beat back Eqypt and occupied Gaza once again. Before the formation of Israel, the Jews a palestinians lived together peacefully. Truman was warned that carving a country out of Palestine for the Jews would lead to troubles and it has in spades. It is spilling over to us. We quake in fear in our homes, line up like sheep at airports to go through security checks because of our middle east policies, Our total and blind support of anything that israel does has changed our lives and our national budget. We fork over 4 billion a year in aid when our own budget is so far in the red our dollar is shaky. How do they thank us for our total support they send spies into DC to gather sensitive information. We have arrested three israeli spies one each for the last three years and deported them.

Now tell me more about those poor trod on needy Israelis.

Glick knows here enemy well.
Glick is correct. Israel has paid the Pals and has provided tax paid medical support.

There is so much that many do not know regarding this violent culture. The following is a small sample:
http://standwithus.org/app/iNews/view_n.asp?ID=509

Folks, were are dealing with many who not only want Jews, Israelis eradicated, they also want us annihilated.

Great article Caroline

Very informative to those of us in the West that want to keepinformed but must rely primarily on the western mainstream media for reporting. The primary function of the Western MSM is to "smokescreen" the crimes and treasonous activities of our corrupt political elitists who are responsible in large part for the "dumbing down" of Israeli policy. Don't ask me why, but the US Administration(s) and State Dept have had, for decades, a vested interest in keeping islamic jihad alive and well throughout the world. Every Israeli should know that from personal experience. Isn't the US even now supplying Hamas with new modern arms. How in the hell can a policy like that ever be adopted with the terrorist track record of Hamas unless someone wantsthem to continue doing exactly what they've been doing. How could an a--hole like Olmert be elected prime minister of Israel without US meddling in the election. US secretaries of stste have been "shuttling" back and forth for 50 years meddling in events to assure the survival of islamic jihad. Do I even need to point out what is going on in Bosnia and Kosovo at the present. Let me point out, NONE of this US meddling on behalf of islamic jihad is in the US National interest. It is strictly for the enrichment of the political elitists.

Islamist stooges Part 1
The stupidity on parade from the Jew haters like chicaree, kassandrasduplex and caligula is to be expected. These anti-Semites are not concerned with truth, they are mentally ill islamist apologists solely interested in peddling arab propaganda. Why? For one they hate Jews, from there it’s an exercise in psychology trying to figure out what makes one reject truth to maintain a willful delusion.


-----Israel lavished money, arms and political legitimacy on the Palestinians? Where did you get that one, Glick? Your arse?……caligula-------

You fool. You have no idea what you’re talking about and since it doesn’t fit your template of arab propaganda points you criticize the author. You’re a stupid little leftist miscreant. The Israelis gave weapons to abbas’s palestinian security forces.

Stick to what you know, drugs and sodomy.

Islamist stooges Part 2
Ignoramus, the palestinians are treated far better with more rights in Israel than in any other arab Crapistan. You are aware Arabs are not allowed to vote throughout the middle east [Iraq-Afghanistan noted] but in Israel they are allowed to vote and have a parliamentary position.

An palestinian journalist took a poll of the residents in Gaza and the West Bank asking them if they preferred to live in Israel or Palestinian controlled areas. The respondents by an 80% margin said they’d rather live in Israel. The results were published. The journalist had his arms broken by some hamas rodents.

Some quotes for you but I’m afraid you’re too stupid to appreciate it. You’ll continue you’re Jew hating goosestep nonetheless………

“Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem
in an irresponsible manner.... they have used the Palestine
people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and,
I could say, even criminal.”

-- King Hussein of Jordan, 1960

Islamist stooges Part 3
“Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees... while it is we who made them leave.... We brought disaster upon ... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave.... We have rendered them dispossessed.... We have accustomed them to begging.... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level.... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon ... men, women and children-all this in the service of political purposes” .... [36]
-- Khaled Al-Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war


“The people are in great need of a "myth" to fill their
consciousness and imagination.…”

-- Musa Alami, 1948


------Gaza is a refugee camp in to which the Palestinians fled when their homes were taken as Jews began to immigrate to Israel after the second world war…….chicaree------

More arab propaganda peddled by a leftist stooge; probably a liberal arts professor from Berkeley. First off idiotchild, immigration of European Jews was extremely restricted by the British who also kept Jews returning from nazi ravaged regions in internment camps at Cypress.

Also, prior to the British during the Ottoman Empire the arabs in Israel [controlled by the Ottoman] were not allowed to own land and many had no education whatsoever. The effendi owned the lands for the most part. Jews bought lands from the effendi, land that was desolate and in many cases malaria infested swamplands, which the effendi did not think the Jews would be able to do anything with. Oh how they were wrong.

No homes were stolen, Jews do not make matzoa from the blood of palestinian children and they do not control natural disasters [many muslims blamed the tsunami in Indonesia on “Da Jooos”].

kassandrasduplex
Islamist stooges Part 2 was a response to your idiotic comment:

------Is this a joke? Seriously, is it? The only thing Israel has lavished on the Palestinians is expulsion, misery and death for 60 years……..kassandrasduplex-------

For the anti-semites here
Try educating yourselves - "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters provides a scholarly documented instruction in the recent (150 yrs) history of the Palestinian Mandate.

She set out sympathetic to the "Palestinians" and wanted to document their trials and what she thought were the wrongs committed against them; but after researching government (British and Arab) records, she discovered a much different path.

Jerusalem has belonged to the Jewish People for more than 2000 years, as has been evidenced by recent archeological finds. Get over it.

Laura Root

Dear Satan
Strange handle you got there. Thanks for the reference. Here is the setting of that quote form the Syrian prime minister.

At the time of the 1948 war, Arabs in Israel were invited by their fellow Arabs -- invited to "leave" while the "invading" Arab armies would purge the land of Jews.1 The invading Arab governments were certain of a quick victory; leaders warned the Arabs in Israel to run for their lives. But with they were defeated and Gaza again back.

Gaza is 24 miles long and has 1.3 million people crammed in it. There is only one gate, one way in and out that the israelis control. It has very little arable land. It is virtually a prison camp.

There is no struggle more violent by humans than the struggle over territory. Palestinians and jews have been living in peace together. but the influx to create the nation of israel has stressed the system and both populations seem intent on growing their populations to extinction
Right now as peace talks are being conducted the israelis are busily building yet another UN designated illegal settlement in the West Bank, with plans to bring in 40,000 people to occupy the pile of rocks they are settling. That is aggression. They don't want peace they want all of the Palestinians lands and won't face the fact that there are millions of Palestinians are not just going to go away.

Then there is the problem of the security fence built with US money that doesn't even follow Israel's countries border. They weave out grabbing water resources, good farmland. They demolish Palestinian's home and bulldoze their olive orchards. All paid for and aided by the US.

And we are told we can't afford to build our own fence between us and Mexico. HUMM.






root in Arizona
Right you are and the Indian were here well before the Eropeans showed up. Are you ready to give Arizona back to the Indians? They too have been herded into reservations. A bit of similarities there.

people on both sides miss the point!
look no need for antisemitic blanket israel bashing, its not the fault of "Israel" its certain political forces within the country. The fact is very simple and in this respect this conflict is entirely different from Northern Ireland, the Basque Countries or the Kurdish people: all of these people are legal citizens of a country with legally (though in some cases yes in actuality discriminated against) rights of citizens. Palestinians living in Judea Samaria Jerusalem and Gaza are legal subhumans with the same status as blacks in South Africa. What to do about this??? I still have not heard the conservative israelis confront this stark fact.


to the victor go the spoils
I love it how these anti-Semitic clowns talk about Israel "occupying" lands they won in the '67 war. guess what? if someone attacks you and you beat them, you get to do what you want. that's what happened in 1967.

should Israel be different from any other triumphant army? that's how we got OUR country, btw, when we beat the British. surely you must have heard about that in school (assuming some of you went to school). THAT'S HOW IT GOES IN THE REAL WORLD.

having said that, tho, as others have already pointed out, Israeli Arabs enjoy a level of freedom unmatched in the rest of the Middle East. that's because Israel is a democracy, like us, and they stand for freedom and liberty, like us, and unlike the majority of those "peaceful" adherents to that "peaceful" religion of Islam.

any of you professional Jew-haters who think Israel is the enemy are out of your freaking minds. and what are you doing on this site anyway? I would think Daily Kos would be more your style.

Doris G. says
Somehow the names Jeruselem and Bethlehem remind me of my Bible.
They are there because no european country would let them in and that is where they were sent.
Seems right to me.
Palestine can not control their own haters no matter how much they might wish to.

Okay, let's annex Israel
--
I don't know about anybody else out there, but I'm not an Israeli citizen.

Hell, us Sicilian-American types don't even have a "Law of Return" that might entitle us to Italian citizenship.

(My grandfather - who came over to America at age 17 - went back to live in Italy after he was widowed and retired. He couldn't stand it. He thought they were a buncha shiftless slobs with less ambition than the average garden slug, and they all called him "l'Americano" and joked about his accent. "Torna a Surriento" ain't an option, folks.)


But if we're gonna keep hearing all this crap about what the Israeli government ought to do, and how Israeli politicians are screwing the pooch in dealing with the ragheads, et-endless-Neocon-cetera, I say we ought to just suck it up and take over the Holy Land.

Get in there and turn Israel into the 51st state.


Think about what would be gained on both sides.

First, the Israelis know what it takes to build a proper border fence.

Second, turning the IDF into the Israeli state National Guard would *substantially* enhance America's ability to function as "Cops of the World" (which is the role into which both Bubba Clinton and Dubbya have bipartisanly shoved us).

Third.... But why go on? It's a "win-win" situation, isn't it?


The Neocons want us up to our butts in a never-ending "ethnic cleansing" campaign against the South Syrian Arabs (they magically became "Palestinians" only after it became politically advantageous to confabulate a spurious national identity), and if we're going to fight a war of conquest, we might as well bite the bullet.

Besides, if we swallow up Israel, we can turn the whole damned thing over the the Department of Homeland Security.

Might as well get *something* out of that humongous waste of Americans' tax dollars.

--

true obama & buchanan supporters
These comments posted earlier are 100% accurate.

Only lib/dems and buchanan supporters are such anti-israel/anti-semetic supporters of the palestinian terrorists that as golda meir stated, ~ would always and will always hate the Jews more than love their own children!"

These people do NOT want peace and live only for death & destruction. They are funded by their arab brethren and the ant-semetes in the US!!!


"The stupidity on parade from the Jew haters like chicaree, kassandrasduplex and caligula is to be expected. These anti-Semites are not concerned with truth, they are mentally ill islamist apologists solely interested in peddling arab propaganda. Why? For one they hate Jews, from there it’s an exercise in psychology trying to figure out what makes one reject truth to maintain a willful delusion"

What Israel should do is ...
... annex Judea, Samaria, the Golan Heights and Gaza. Assimilate or expel the Arabs living there (their choice), and start dealing with the Islamist Terrorists in an appropriate way. An appropriate way would be to smear them with swine blood, execute them and bury them with a swine carcass. Muslims believe if you're buried that way you go immediately to Hell, forever. This technique was used effectively in the Philipines after WWII.

Steve downs. at least you are honest
honestly show your true fascist colours. good. Finished your frothing fantasys of pigskins and murder and calmed down? good... Now back to reality...Assimilating the Arabs living there is the last thing israel wants to do, Assimilation means they become citizens which means they within generation become majority and vote the jewish state out of existence. The whole point is that the Palestinians are stateless, what to do? keep an apartheid policy where they have subhuman status passed on to their children, ethnically cleanse them, exterminate them or deal with them. Which one? Assimilating them is suicide for the Jewish state...

Sharon, Olmert, et al
(1) The present government of Israel is run by crooks, Ehud Olmert being one from long way back, so their judgment is not determined by concern for the welfare of Israel but for their own private welfare. Sharon's decision to withdraw from Gaza, although his party (Likud) had been elected NOT to do so, was based on his desire to distract attention from the legal troubles of his son Omri. The crooks suppress free speech, as Caroline Glick says, and maneuver to prevent elections.
(2) Arabs and Jews did not live together in peace in the Palestine Mandate. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, organized riots and attacks on Jews starting in 1921. (He later became an ally of Adolf Hitler.) The name "Palestine Mandate" was chosen by the Zionists since "Palestine" had been synonymous with "land of the Jews" or "the Holy Land" since the Roman Emperor Hadrian defeated the last Jewish uprising in 135 A.D. and renamed Judea "Palestina" (and Jerusalem "Aelia Capitolina"). " Palestinian" was synonymous with "Jew" from that time on, until the Soviet Union founded the "Palestine Liberation Organization" in Egypt in 1964. Arabs have been engaged in massive history-rewrite ever since.
(3) King David made Jerusalem his capitol around 3000 years ago, his earlier one having been Hebron.
(4) Zionists, led by Theodore Herzl, did not want Jews to return to the land of Israel for sentimental reasons, but because the situation of Jews in Europe was so bad. Of course, the land they chose was the historical land of the Jews, where Jews had been living - though not ruling - for over 2400 years after the conquest of Alexander the Great and from probably at least 2000 B.C.

Enough Already!
aspacia: "Glick is correct. Israel has paid the Pals and has provided tax paid medical support. There is so much that many do not know regarding this violent culture. The following is a small sample: http://standwithus.org/app/iNews/view_n.asp?ID=509
Folks, were are dealing with many who not only want Jews, Israelis eradicated, they also want us annihilated."
________________________________

From their web site's mission statement::
"StandWithUs is an international education organization that ensures that Israel's side of the story is told in communities, campuses, libraries, the media and churches through brochures, speakers, conferences, missions to Israel, and thousands of pages of Internet resources."

Why don't you try quoting some FACTS from a non-biased group? What are you going to regurgitate next: more lies from AIPAC?

You people have been buying out this country's government (which has been more than happy to sell our security out) to insure your beloved 51st state's security. Why don't you just move there and get out of the US. You people always refer to it as your homeland anyway (despite having been born in Hoboken or LA or wherever). Doesn't sound too American to me!

The Great Schill
The Great Satan: "-----Israel lavished money, arms and political legitimacy on the Palestinians? Where did you get that one, Glick? Your arse?……caligula-------
You fool. You have no idea what you’re talking about and since it doesn’t fit your template of arab propaganda points you criticize the author. You’re a stupid little leftist miscreant. The Israelis gave weapons to abbas’s palestinian security forces.
Stick to what you know, drugs and sodomy."
__________________________

Yeah, right, Those righteous Israelis are just pouring cash on the Palestinians. Do you mean before or after they have bulldozed their homes?

I think with a moniker like "The Great Satan" you would be the resident expert on sodomy. Judging from your rants, you seem to be an expert on drugs too, especially of the psychedelic variety. (ever learned about capitalization? Spellchecker will help!)

BTW, by suggesting that Palestinians are actually NOT sub-humans, how am I an anti-Semite? Palestinians (who are Arabs) are Semites, you fool!

Dow's (more like Down's) Syndrome
Dow: "true obama & buchanan supporters
These comments posted earlier are 100% accurate.
Only lib/dems and buchanan supporters are such anti-israel/anti-semetic supporters of the palestinian terrorists that as golda meir stated, ~ would always and will always hate the Jews more than love their own children!"
These people do NOT want peace and live only for death & destruction. They are funded by their arab brethren and the ant-semetes in the US!!!
"The stupidity on parade from the Jew haters like chicaree, kassandrasduplex and caligula is to be expected. These anti-Semites are not concerned with truth, they are mentally ill islamist apologists solely interested in peddling arab propaganda. Why? For one they hate Jews, from there it’s an exercise in psychology trying to figure out what makes one reject truth to maintain a willful delusion"

Oh, please! So, because I am not a biased, Israel first-ahead of my OWN country's (USA!) security - blowhard, I must be some Jew hater? Byatch, take that tired old canard and toss it out with today's trash! You neo-cons use this cliched argument whenever any true patriot questions your support of Israel's interests over those of your own country's. (You are an American, right?)

BTW, it's spelled "Semitic," not "semetic." Just a clue there, bub.

Revisionist History?
michigan ruth: "to the victor go the spoils
I love it how these anti-Semitic clowns talk about Israel "occupying" lands they won in the '67 war. guess what? if someone attacks you and you beat them, you get to do what you want. that's what happened in 1967.
should Israel be different from any other triumphant army? that's how we got OUR country, btw, when we beat the British. surely you must have heard about that in school (assuming some of you went to school). THAT'S HOW IT GOES IN THE REAL WORLD.
having said that, tho, as others have already pointed out, Israeli Arabs enjoy a level of freedom unmatched in the rest of the Middle East. that's because Israel is a democracy, like us, and they stand for freedom and liberty, like us, and unlike the majority of those "peaceful" adherents to that "peaceful" religion of Islam.
any of you professional Jew-haters who think Israel is the enemy are out of your freaking minds. and what are you doing on this site anyway? I would think Daily Kos would be more your style."

________________________________

No, it's not. We were a colony (unlike Palestine). We wanted our independence (just as many other countries did, whether in South America, Africa, and Asia).

If you think the Palestinians are enjoying "freedoms" under the Israelis, you are the biggest Kool Aid drinker out there!

BTW, according to your theory, America would now be occupying and ruling Germany, Japan, Mexico, Austria, Italy, etc. Instead, we helped those we conquered to rebuild and become democracies.

So, which is your favorite Kool Aid flavor?

Give Root the Boot
Laura Root: "Jerusalem has belonged to the Jewish People for more than 2000 years, as has been evidenced by recent archeological finds. Get over it."
__________________________

If that was the case, Israel would not be only 60 years old.

Deal with it.

What is wrong with the Israeli govt?
Caroline Glick tells it like it is. Sadly, her astute observations on the impotence of the Israeli governmnt is all true. It is terrifying how idiotic the Israeli government is. No other country in the world would ever tolerate the global crap that they do, and then, they bend over backwards to appease the US and their arab neighbors to no avail! When will the people of Israel collectively stand up against this foolishness and demand a real change, not more of the same cookie cutter government tat Livni or Barak would offer? I pray that Israel will be able to reacquire some of her original moxy and internal strength and pride and self respect-before it is too late!
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