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Monday, March 05, 2007
Carol Platt Liebau :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Barack I Knew
by Carol Platt Liebau
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There is something profoundly surreal about having known someone like Barack Obama, whose political career has seen a meteoric rise that is the stuff of political fairytales. To turn on the television and see a once-familiar face grown slightly more mature, hear the same vocal intonations and note many of same personal characteristics – now all presented as elements of a “rock star” persona – is a strange experience.

Of course, with public acclaim of the kind Obama now enjoys comes a host of hangers-on, many eager to claim some “special relationship” with a famous person. Certainly, Barack and I were hardly best friends; he was a year ahead of me at Harvard Law School (and six years older) when we met the summer that I became a newly-minted editor of the Harvard Law Review. But we did work together for some time, and he reached out to advise me when I became the first female Managing Editor in the Review’s history.

Barack is a deeply committed liberal, and I am a proud conservative. Even so, he possesses five qualities that are genuinely praiseworthy -- political ideology aside:

He’s intelligent. Clearly, his achievements reveal that Barack Obama possesses intellectual credentials that would impress even the snootiest resume snob. But (perhaps more importantly) he also possesses street smarts. As Hillary Clinton can testify, he knows how to throw a punch as well as how to take one. He is able to size up people accurately. What’s more, he respects "real world" intelligence, a quality that’s all-too-rare among those with stellar academic records – but one that’s vital to someone in public life who must rely on the assistance of an extensive staff.

He’s colorblind. When Barack became the first African-American President of The Harvard Law Review, it was big news. More radical black Review editors urged him not only to take controversial stands on a whole host of racial issues – they also pressured him to use his discretion to elevate black students to leadership positions within the organization. Barack declined to do so; though his choices were often left-wing (as, in fairness, was much of the Review’s membership), they weren’t race-conscious.

He’s self-confident. Even at age 29, Barack Obama had the self-possession and confidence of a much older man – a quality that, at times, manifested itself in amusing ways. At law school, he had apparently been urged by several professors to call them by their first names – and it was a prerogative he wasn’t shy about exercising, even in front of other students who hadn’t received the same invitation. He projected an air of self-assurance amid controversy, and always radiated an unshakable air of confidence in himself and his decisions – qualities that are no doubt essential to making a run for the nation’s highest office as a relatively untried first term senator.

He listens. Certainly, Barack is a liberal’s liberal, and his leadership of The Harvard Law Review in many ways reflected that fact. But unlike many of his left-wing compatriots, he treated his ideological adversaries with respect on a personal level. Indeed, he always offered the small conservative contingent on the Review a hearing, even though his decision-making consistently showed that he hadn’t ultimately been influenced by their arguments.

He has a sense of humor. In May of 2006, I encountered Barack in the hall of the Russell Senate Office Building, surrounded by a gaggle of advisors. To my surprise, he hailed me over, teasingly referencing a spectacularly fashion-backward pair of horn-rimmed glasses I had often worn during Review days. I complimented his speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, and then, for some reason, felt it necessary to remind him that my praise was qualified by the fact that “of course I don’t agree with any of your policies.” With that, Barack simply threw back his head and laughed. Can anyone imagine Hillary Clinton, John Kerry or Howard Dean reacting that way?

No doubt it’s a long, long road to The White House, even for politicians with significantly more experience than Illinois' junior senator. But many of the qualities that he manifested during our joint tenure on The Harvard Law Review help explain why so many enthusiastically contemplate the prospect that Barack Obama's journey to the Oval Office will be both a short and a successful one.

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About The Author

Carol Platt Liebau is an attorney, political commentator and guest radio talk show host based near Los Angeles. Learn more about her new book, "Prude: How the Sex-Obsessed Culture Hurts Young Women (and America, Too!)" here.

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A pleasant surprise
I'm accustomed to TH columnists and readers attacking Obama like a pack of pit bulls. It's a pleasant surprise to find a conservative who has anything good to say about him. Of course, these compliments will have no impact on the massive conservative assault that is already well under way against Obama, an assault that will succeed in convincing some large fraction of the American public that he is some cross between a jihadist and the Devil incarnate.

Thanks, Ms.Liebau, for a brief moment of class before what will be an extremely unclassy swiftboating of Obama. Dig deep, conservatives. How low will you be able to go?

To say he has qualities
of leadership, intellect, maturity, and class do not in any way diminish the fact that this writer clearly disagrees with much of his political agenda and will undoubtedly oppose his ascendency to the Presidency. The fact is it is refreshing to see a prominent Democrat who is fundamentally honest and classy when you compare that with much of the leadership of his party in recent years. There is no harm in acknowledging this just as there is no harm in attacking the policy positions of a man she may personally like and respect.

Gestell's error
I beg to differ with you: Kerry asked the US electorate to talk to those who knew him in the war. "Swiftboating" was those who knew him in the war saying that yes, they knew him, and he wasn't suitable for president.

If Obama were running on the basis of his service in WW2 (which he's obviously too young to have been in) then he'd be at risk for a similar treatment. Instead, his character (as shown here) and his experience (minimal, from all accounts) are what is important.

I suspect Mr Obama...
... will get raked over the coals a lot worse by his primary opponents than by his general election opponents, if he gets that far.

exactly the reason why
we need him for president, finally somebody whom moderates from both sides can appreciate.

Thanks to Ms Liebau
It was pleasant and refreshing to read something nice about Senator Obama (or any Democrat) on this board. I get the feeling sometimes that conservatives believe that if they can just destroy all possible opposition candidates before the election, they will win by default---the last I heard, we were still a two-party nation. As for the charge that Obama is "a child" (Bill O'Reilly) or "an empty suit" (a townhall poster today) I would point out that 1) Obama is older than Kennedy was when he was elected President---age 43 means "middle-aged man"; and 2) Having been President of the Harvard Law Review, practiced social justice law in Chicago, taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago, and served eight years in the Illinois Senate before being elected to the United States Senate, Obama is hardly an empty suit. Thanks to Ms Liebau for a fair portrayal of this intelligent and promising man.

iska
"...finally somebody whom moderates from both sides can appreciate."

Did you miss the line where Carol Liebau wrote: "Barack is a deeply committed liberal, and I am a proud conservative"?

This conservative woman has the honesty to acknowledge Obama's admirable characteristics.

She does not agree with his political ideology!

iska
"...finally somebody whom moderates from both sides can appreciate."

We can appreciate certain aspects of his character and personality. And, indeed, I think many people do. I commented to a colleague not long ago that one thing Obama has in his favor, from my point of view, is that he is a far cry from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, whose politics are race-based and divisive. The good thing about Jackson and Sharpton is that neither of them has ever had any chance whatsoever of ever becoming president and thus implementing their errible policies.

However, with regard to Obama, please re-read:

"Indeed, he always offered the small conservative contingent on the Review a hearing, even though HIS DECISION-MAIKING CONSISTENTLY SHOWED THAT HE HADN'T ULTMATELY BEEN INFLUENCED BY THEIR ARGUMENTS."

A "committed liberal" (with a lifetime ACU rating of 8) who can in no way be swayed by logic or facts-based arguments is of no use to conservatives. The tone of such a person's administration might be different, but the outcome will be pretty much the same as, or possibly worse (see http://www.majorityrules.org/blog/2007/03/senator-barack-obama-more-liberal-than.html) than if you elected Clinton, Edwards, or Gore, whose ACU ratings are 9, 10 and 5, respectively. The liber advocacy group Americans for Democratic Reform has given Obama a 95% rating. Make no mistake. Sen. Barack Obama is by no stretch of the imagination a moderate. NONE of the leading Democratic candidates are moderates within the American system.

My Thoughts on Barack Obama
My mother once admonished me to not say anything about a person if I could not say something good about them........Okay I won't.

Him and every BMOC
A lot of these BMOCs end up in major law firms at one time or other during their careers and I've met my share of them. Having been a Campus Darling or Big Frog in Small Pond, they come to their first major league job convinced that they already know everything they need to know, and they are difficult to impossible for the people who have been there for many years to integrate into the community. I've related before how one of these politically ambitious characters for whom I worked persisted in referring to me as his "girl" -- although I was considerably older than he (until I began referring to him as my 'boy' when a truce was achieved). This guy (I'll call him George) also had a wonderful personality, a posture of listening to advice from others, and an inflexible agenda -- right or wrong -- for which he took no responsibility when it failed. George was so unprincipled in the pursuit of his political ambitions that he wooed a local Prominent Pol's support the old fashioned way: he not only went hunting with him (and presented him with an expensive silver-inlaid shotgun), but he married the man's plain eldest daughter! (I was present at the wedding and reception by virtue of my employee status, and that wedding and reception was staged for the cameras. The participants were miked and there were marks on the floor for them to hit, and the proles at the posh country club reception was kept back behind the ropes until the filming -- with carefully selected VIP background -- was completed.

The Obama Puppet strikes me in the same mold as George and all the other BMOCs who stride forth from their crowd of sycophants into a world for which they are unprepared and to work with people who don't worship them. All those qualities that get you voted Mr. Popularity on campus can't cover forever when you've alienated all the people who otherwise would have saved you from revealing your shallowness to the world.

We have seen this before. And we are not amused.

P.S. "Meteoric rise" is an oxymoron. Meteors don't rise. They fall.

P.P.S. You meant meteorites.

Gestell et al.
Gestell - Yours was a good post until you made the swiftboat reference. FYI - The Swifties were there in combat with Kerry and who better to judge such a man?

And - are you implying that the liberal press will be moderate and impartial in its treatment of whoever emerges as the Republican nominee?

Iska and Wil - good points.

FYI - Yesterday's dem wingding in Selma. I would like to point out that there has been a (gasp!) Catholic charitable organization there, the Edmundite Missions, since 1937.

lilly
I find it hilarious that you, an obvious liberal, accuse conservatives of trying to destroy Democrats simply as a part of their manner of doing business. Apparently, you have not been paying attention to the liberals who have been crucifying George W. Bush with accusations of being a Hitler, a liar and an idiot, ditto for anyone in his administration, or any Republican in Congress for years. At least the conservatives tell the truth about their opponents.

Gestell, it won't be the Conservatives
who do in Mr. Obama. The Supreme Anointed One will do that for us through her willing character assassins in the Pravda wing of the media.

Something the GOP candidate needs to keep in mind as well: if the Pravda wing are treating you relatively nicely, Her file on you must be thick...

no time for rookie

Perhaps there were times in American history where fresh-faced inexperience was an asset for a presidential candidate.

If Americans are serious about their survival in an increasingly hostile world, now is not one of those times.

Don't Be Folled Barack
It should be obvious, to anyone with the ability to think and reason, where Barack Obama would be on the popularity scale were he a Republican or a Conservative.

He may be a wonderful guy with whom we could all agree occasionally, but we should always be skeptical when the media spends so much time and effort trying to promote someone. Only those who are accustomed to being led around by the nose would fall for their agenda driven tactics.

They see in Barack Obama a man who loves attention, and they know how to portray an image of their choosing to a receptive public consisting mostly of those who were not taught to think on their own.

Fortunately, he will lose momentum once the media finds a new image to fawn over, and promote as their choice to lead the enlightened. At that point, would-be President, Barack Obama will be destroyed by the same folks who offered him up as a sacrifice in the first place.

Lost sense of humor
Judging from his recent reactions to things said about him, and about a picture of him in a swimsuit, his sense of humor has frayed a bit.

Not color blind
I think Mr. Obama is a nice man, with a good heart, but I have a problem with his "african american" posturing......Please correct me if I am wrong. His African Father abandoned him. His White Mother raised him. I think he should give some credit to the other half of his heritage. He is not only african american, he is white as well.....he is Bi-racial. In regards to this campaign, he is not colorblind.

Colorblind? Read this
I am sorry but when one 'claims' one belief and then it comes out there is the exact opposite belief - I have to question it.
Mr. Obama may claim his is 'color blind' or this writer may because he refused in Harvard to push more radical black issues but given what deb wrote, which was my original reason for not ever wanting to vote for him, I have to question that statement. I then saw this on LGF -
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
This is the 'Christian' Church Mr. Obama goes to. That does not sound color blind, tolerant nor Christian to me. As LGF said, if a candidate for President went to a 'white' church that had that as it's 'About Us' he/she would have been out of the running in MINUTES.
That says something very sad about our media.

Barak isn't Black
All Ms. Liebau shows is that Barak really isn't black - he is a traditional white leftist.

He has lived a silver-spooned leftist (not liberal) lifestyle since at least college and now a few decades later is the traditional rich white clueless leftist (and they aren't liberal).

The ideal candidate of the Democrat party.

But remember that just because someone is civil to us does not mean that he is our friend. Cheney is usually civil to the leftists but he doesn't support them, now does he?

re 'swiftboating'
I think all of us can use "swiftboating" as a verb to designate the practice of digging up people who were once associated with a candidate who will accuse him of all sorts of evils. I recall a funny version of this a few years back: Did you know that Bill Clinton once sacrificed a college roommate to Baal?

Church: Mission Statement
Wardmama4
You were looking at the about us.
This is their mission statement:
Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots! As a congregation of baptized believers, we are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God’s family. We, as a church family, acknowledge, that we will, building on this affirmation of "who we are" and "whose we are," call men, women, boys and girls to the liberating love of Jesus Christ, inviting them to become a part of the church universal, responding to Jesus’ command that we go into all the world and make disciples!

It doesn't seem that bad.
http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

Furthermore,
The church also says, "
* To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

* African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

* There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.
"http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm

This really seems to be overdone. Blacks were discriminated against and formed a church ideology based on their hardships. I don't think this church will change much of Obama's support. His policies, on the hand, just may mess him up. Whatever his church is, he is clearly not a radical.


The Barack I Like
I live in Illinois and have not voted for Barack Obama. I will not vote for him in the primary or the general election. But I must say this article is the type of thoughtful opinion piece I have wished to hear from a serious conservative. I have read both of Obama's books, know friends of his personally, and believe he has true leadership qualities. He is no light-weight running on charm alone.

Yes, the liberals do hate Bush. That hatred makes their comments distorted and consistently mean-spirited. But we do not have to respond in kind. The strength of real character is to see the positives in your opponent while you still disagree with them and explain why. Obama is a serious candidate and Hillary Clinton's response to him shows it.

As for Obama's faith profession his own minister, Jeremiah Wright, is a credible and a most unusual man. He defies the typical liberal/conservative categories that we have adopted about religion and politics over the last twenty years. Obama seems clearly to have committed himself to the Christian faith. Remember, he grew in a home where there was no faith at all. He consciously, as a adult, made a profession of Christian faith and took baptism as a mark of discipleship. His practice of personal faith seems both real and traditionally liberal. He even wrestles, quite honestly, with some of the ethical questions his liberal opinions push him toward on several moral issues. Why can conservatives (today's variety at least) not acknowledge that such people have real faith even if they disagree with their solutions to public matters? I expect Obama can and will talk about his faith in intelligent ways, as he has already done in The Audacity of Hope. Religious right rhetoric will only help him if this approach is used in an election. There are a load of Christians in my personal world who do not agree with me politically but they are people of real faith. Frankly, I am very tired of the certitude with which many on the right respond to matters of deep and personal faith.

True conservatives, who are Reaganites at their core, should take this man seriously and begin to frame positive ways to oppose his views as bad for the future of America, If they choose to simply attack his persona with more vitriol he will look better and better as the process unfolds. People are sick of this type of partisanship.

Again, thanks for a thoughtful and insightful first-person story.

So Obama is a charismatic Liberalista
A socialist is a socialist no matter how pleasant he is. Just because he is not mean and petty does not mean that he would not push America further along that dangerous path of self destruction.

May I call you Carol?
Carol

Thanks for the anecdotal look at B.O. It was enlightening...you almost made me forget the following:

1 - He is a Marxist
2 - He is an Illinois politician (not exactly the last bastian for political integrity...relax, I'm from IL) VOTE EARLY, AND VOTE OFTEN!
3 - He is SOOOOOOO nice...that he wants an immediate redeployment of the troops in Iraq...that isn't going to leave the innocent Iraqi people in a very good spot.
4 - I don't trust ANYONE that the mainstream media raises up as their personal savior! It leads me to believe his only quality is that he will be media candy!
5 - That b/c he is nice and "hears" you doesn't mean that he's listening. He is, in fact, on a personal mission that doesn't involve representing his own constituency! I am proof of that...I am a disappointed Illinoisian.

All that aside, I'm glad that you shared this personal touch on the junior senator...it really shows the bond that Harvard people share. Now I trust that long line of alumnists even less.

Iska: it ain't personal
Iska: Someone moderates from both sides can appreciate? Not.
Oh, but you're talking about his personal qualities aren't you? See, some of us don't care about that...we actually care about the ideology that will drive his decisions.
Yes, Obama is everything we can all admire personally: he has charisma, he's articulate. He's all that.
But some of us will not be voting for the guy because of his politics: his politics are NOT MODERATE!

Agree with Al
The last time a relatively inexperienced politician from Illinois ascended to the Presidency, we ended up in a Civil War.

Liberals in Power
As I explain to my children, liberals in positions of power know the truth, but act in their own best interest anyway. Obama falls squarely into this camp regardless of any positive traits he may have.

Everyday liberals - teachers, union workers, etc. - are not immersed in the issues they support and thus are most often ignorant of the consequences of the ideology they support. Ordinary liberals can be well intentioned and simply misguided, but liberal in power are different...these liberals understand fully the implications of their ideology and therefore they purposefully choose to harm our society for their own gain.

The problem I have with liberals such as Obama is that they know the truth. They know that the policies and laws they advocate only help them, and not the people they claim to want to help. Affirmative action harms minorities. Tax increases further impoverish the poor. Judicial fiat bypasses the democratic process. Minimum wage laws create unemployment and less opportunity. And on and on the list goes.

It is all well and good that this author vouches for Obama's character, but I do not need to have met the man, or any liberal in power, to understand that they are not good people with bad ideas. Barring total stupidity, they know what they are doing and I hold them accountable. My neighbors will continue to get a pass.

Health Care
Barak has come out and said that health care is a right.

I disagree was I think most conservatives do.

How to combat?

The main reason healthcare cannot be a right is a practical one. It doesn't make fiscal sense.

But we do spend billions of dollars each year on health care currently. How do we reduce that.

Well, I can see conservatives going out with the following messages.

1.) We do not believe health care can be a right as a practical fiscal matter.

2.) Given our belief is a practical one then it must follow that any money we do spend on health care must be wisely spent.

3.) Therefore, every ten years when the census is taken there will be a health care census. This health care census will drive public spending policy as to the efficiency and effectiveness as to the dollars previously spent.

The reality is that we spend billions of dollars of federal money today on health care. Just slashing funding will be taken as cold-hearted. Measuring performance and calling out inefficiences and then slashing dollars will not be.

Now, now much health care should the federal government provide and too whom? Again, throwing the handicapped and elderly out on the street by cutting funding is a losing political position.

How 'bout health care bonds. Similar to war bonds in the 1940's they are used to finance government works by buying bonds rather than taxes. Politicians can win by direct selling of bonds. Corporations can win by investing a certain amount of money in health care bonds. Private citizens can feel good about buying health care bonds. When too many handicapped or elderly get thrown out on the street then these stories can compel people to buy bonds.

Of course you are still going to have the administration of the billions of dollars of bond money collected, and the government will be on the hook for the interest payments, but still then the *amount* of liberal public crying out for public sponsorship of public healthcare has a direct avenue of supporting their own words with money. People who do not believe in public aid do not have to buy bonds. Health care is not a right. Health care becomes a managed fiscal reality. We spend as much on health care as people are willing to spend on the bonds.







Gestell - swiftboating
Use it as a verb if you want but it is inaccurate. The Swifties were in combat with John Kerry - they should know about him. At a reunion of them in 2004 a statement was circulated stating that in their opinion John Kerry was unfit for command of the US Armed Forces, aka President of the United States. Of the approximately 300 Swifties there about 255 signed it, or 85%. There were the people in combat with Kerry.

You are implying of course, that the book Unfit For Command was a smear. It was not - it was the statements of people who were in combat with John Kerry who challenged his claims to being a war hero.

He has three Purple Hearts and not one of them was serious enough to warrant hospitalization. One of them required a band aid. The award is for heroes - men who are wounded or killed in battle, not people who want to get out of town in 4 months instead of the usual 12. He could have refused them.

And talk to the American servicemen who were in North Vietnamese prison camps when Kerry gave his testimony in 1971 accusing them of being war criminals. Ask them how much worse his testimony made their already miserable lives.

To uwcharlie
If you think that Democrats unfairly attack President Bush, please read Paul Krugman's column in today's New York Times. It treats in detail the situation at Walter Reed Hospital and points out that Bush's policies of privatizing and appointing political loyalists in lieu of specialists (the same criticism made re Iraq and Katrina) is responsible for the mess there. Bush is criticized because of what he DOES. Every action has a reaction. BTW (I am guessing that you will refuse to read anything in the New York Times) you might like to google something from an impeccable conservative source, the following Heritage Foundation paper online, "Taking Charge of Federal Personnel" 1-10-2001. It provides a specific blueprint for Bush to follow in remaking the federal government and advises him to put political loyalty before professional expertise when making an appointment. If you print out the article it prints to 20 pages and that advice in so many words appears on page 20.

If you are trying to run a major hospital, you don't put a politically loyal defense contractor in charge of making medical decisions.

And, yes, I am proudly a liberal. Somehow it seems to me that a nation should be more than a bunch of people trying to make money off each other.

Abraham & Barack
povidus writes:

Monday, March, 05, 2007 11:25 AM
Agree with Al

The last time a relatively inexperienced politician from Illinois ascended to the Presidency, we ended up in a Civil War.


Perhaps history is approaching the time of repetition.

Otherwise, idealogically speaking, comparison of character of these 2 men is, in the truest sense of the word, ridiculous.


a thought and a question for Lilly:
It's no use blaming one administration over another for things that have taken DECADES to degrade.

Question: Would you prefer to see (A) family practioner (Doctor) who is just down the street, knows you, and is readily available to serve your (and other patients') best interest, or (B)a large impersonal practice states away that doesn't really care what you think (but pretends to) and doesn't even diagnose a problem before initiating a prescription? Please answer honestly. A or B.

lilly
Simply citing the most intellectually dishonest "pundit" in all of America (Krugman) destroys the credibility of any point you wish to make.

Obama and Lincoln
The secession under Lincoln was Southerners
doing and can be blamed on democracy and the
electoral college system.

Do we have secessionist in our TH midst if Obama
is elected? You can join all those Dems who
said they were going to Canada if W got elected.
Actually not join those that said, but join
those that did - it will be a small community.

Anyways, I do think the comparisons to Lincoln
are valid up to a point:

Especially in the way he summarizes Republican
positions. Much like Lincoln with Democrats,
you could probably get a better understanding
of the opponent's point of view from listening
to Abe or Barack than from listening to a
member of the rival party.
He also seems to have a similar temperament
as Lincoln.
Absent father.
Lost mother.
Unlikely background to become President.
From Illinois.
Lawyer.
Similar build.
Laid back parenting style (only sense this
from fluff piece on 60 Minutes)
And now we have word he has a good sense of
humor, though I'm sure it can't rival Lincoln's.

everyonesfacts
Lincoln was much better looking...JK

Not similar in the fact that Lincoln welcomed the oportunity to debate. B.O. gained the senate not by means of his intellect and logic on the issues, but because his opponent, Jack Ryan withdrew based on some kinky marital indescretions that involved him and his wife and the desire to go to "swinger" clubs. that the dems were able to publicize from his divorce records (I guess there is nothing confidential in life, eventhough it sealed)...he was replaced by the very unpopular Allan Keyes. B.O. did not face a single debate...if only there could have been "Douglas" to challenge on the issues...NOT A SINGLE DEBATE TO GAIN SENATE SEAT! OY!

Lincoln was not a media darling either...unlike our resident "rockstar".

There are a lot more things to separate the two icons (and probably more noteworthy than these)...just wanted to point out that they really aren't alike on things that really matter in getting elected...I doubt that B.O. could hold a candle to Lincoln's leadership ability. There is more to liken our current President than there is to liken him to B.O.

I understand that you are just being matter-of-fact about the similarities, but I just can't stomach it. Sorry.

are you there Lilly?
My multiple choice question asked of you (above) has an expiration stamp on it...my attention span is not that substantial...please answer before I lose the thought. Thanks!


SimJim
Well put! However, all teachers are not everyday liberals. I teach high school and have been a conservative since my "military school" days.

Obama wants to be veep -- for now
Barack Obama is a smart politician. Privately he knows he cannot be elected in 2008 -- he simply will not have enough age or experience to put Americans in a comfort zone. But he is most definitely angling for the job of vice-president. And don't think for two seconds Hillary won't offer him a spot. If she wins, and is re-elected in 2012(hardly impossible), he'll be primed to make a go of it in 2016. He can always point to the need for continuity, not to mention his eight years of White House experience.

Time flies when you're having a good time. And time, to my regret, is on Obama's side.

Yet Another...
... pro-Barack puff piece, and from a writer who calls herself a "proud conservative" no less! Sorry, Carol. Proud conservatives DO NOT (repeat, DO NOT) carry water for leftwing extremists like Obama, especially considering his views on abortion and his denial of the sanctity of normal or traditional marriage. I therefore call upon all the writers at Town Hall to stop shooting conservatives in the foot by praising leftists. Carol, you are right that "it’s a long, long road to The White House." And writing pieces such as this only ensures that that raod becomes longer for our side.

SimJim
your post is great. Wish I had written it.

Obama's chances
garageman writes: Monday, March, 05, 2007 1:27 PM "Barack Obama is a smart politician. Privately he knows he cannot be elected in 2008 -- he simply will not have enough age or experience to put Americans in a comfort zone."

Garageman, First I don't know what Obama
knows and does not know.

But I have to disagree with your predicting
about his odds in 2008 if he was running.
Of course, it's a long way off, but that's
half the fun. As one of my friends said the
week after the last election Presidential
election. "If Obama was the nominee he would
be President."

His thinking? He would have won all the states
Kerry won and he thinks he would have carried
OH. Something to think about.

Map of last election:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_state_vs._blue_state_divide

everyonesfacts
Thanks for proving me wrong about the debates. I didn't catch them. Perhaps I was unconcious from the fact that Allan Keyes had to take Ryan's place in the race.

Thanks for the link to the transcripts.

WaveTheFlag
"Well put! However, all teachers are not everyday liberals. I teach high school and have been a conservative since my "military school" days."

Sorry if I implied all teachers. My kids have encountered a few conservative teachers and they have been surprisingly vocal about the nonsense of their liberal colleagues. In fact, one whackjob Social Studies teacher recently showed the class "An Inconvenient Truth" against the public objection of her student teacher. His math teacher also spoke negatively about the propaganda film in his class. My personal experience is that the majority of teachers are liberal, but not all.

The same holds true for union members. I was a union member twice (not by choice). The first time was when Carter was running against Reagan. The union sent out a ballot to see whom members wanted to support in the election. The ballot was distributed before the primaries, and only included Democrat candidates. How's that for bias! My experience in the union was that most members were either conservatives (lots of gun owners) or uninvolved. Union leadership was heavily liberal.

B-Rob
Now that isn't very nice, B-Rob...calling people liars and such. Must be nice to be able to judge people without knowing them. I wasn't lying...just wrong. Ryan and B.O. were to have 9 such debates. Guess I'm still disappointed that we'll never know whether B.O. would have won or not had Ryan not dropped out.

You're right, I don't know "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that it was dems who leaked that to the press. I am deducting that it wasn't a GOP, but there are other political parties in IL who could have an interest in the US Senate seat...I just only saw Republican and Democrat for choices on the ballot. But you're right, it isn't fair to insinuate that is was a leak from the dems to the press a few months before the election (I believe it was the end of June). Strike my comment from the record, as it bears no merit, and I AM PROFOUNDLY and UNENDINGLY IGNORANT...just another conservative liar in an ocean of liberal truth.

By no means do I condone Ryan's indescretions.

All I wanted to do is talk to "everyonesfacts" about how there were bigger differences between Lincoln and B.O. than the similarities...then you had to come along and hurt my feelings.

If you want to bring the Dem Primary into it...B.O. really didn't come from behind...Blair Hull made the news for allegations of domestic abuse prior to the primary elections, which made him unelectable...but then again, I'm a con-liar, and an ignoramus maximus, so it probably means nothing anyway.

Life's too short to be as bitter as you are.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!


SimJim
You should be all over that S.S. teacher...Teachers have an obligation to be objective about information and curriculum that they teach. I've had to confront several S.S. teachers in my building about the messages that they convey simply because they have a captive audience (and an impressionable one at that).

We had a stituation with that "Truth" film in our school as well. It was squashed not only because of its politically charged message but b/c the science used to explain global warming is absolute crap.

Conservatives need to make sure that the teachers that they have entrusted to TEACH their children are not simply INDOCTRINATING them...that would could go for left and right leanings. Their job is to teach and create independent learners, not to make one side look worse than (or more inferior) the other. Teachers will respond to dialog with parents, especially when it's a frustrated parent.

Comment to Lilly
Lilly posted in part:

"And, yes, I am proudly a liberal. Somehow it seems to me that a nation should be more than a bunch of people trying to make money off each other."

You're entitled to your viewpoint, but mine, as a libertarian, is: Better a nation that is a bunch of people trying to make money off each other-- trading value for value, providing each other's needs without coercion-- than a nation that is primarily some people being told by other people with guns, "Do what we tell you or we'll kill you." I understand that as a liberal, attracted to big-government answers to problems, you like to think of government as being a big cooperative enterprise with everybody doing their part voluntariily. But that's not the reality of government. As a quotation attributed to George Washington says, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force." (The quotation goes on, "It (government) is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Liberals tend to remember only the "servant" part and forget the "dangerous" and "fearful master" part.)

As for the problems at Walter Reed Hospital, it's possible that Bush and/or his appointees are responsible, and if so they deserve censure. But I'll need better proof of their guilt than the word of Paul Krugman, a confirmed Bush-hater who would find a way to blame Bush if an asteroid struck the Earth.

Healthcare as a "Right"
Healthcare as a "Right"is a scam that is being
used by Dems and Lefties to buy votes from
people that think "Something for nothing"is a
viable business practice.
If you have health insurance and want to figure
out why it is so expensive you can learn the
reason the next time you visit the doctor or
use hospital facilities or buy a prescription.
Just look around you and see who is paying a
reduced fee [like medicare] or no fee[like medi-
caid]and then try to figure out who is making up
the shortfall.IT IS YOU!!!
We're selling our freedoms one "freebie"at a
time.
All of our hospitals will be "Walter Reeds" when
the government is running things.

separation of church & state
Where is the ACLU when you need them? I believe Hillary and Obama's campaigning is a blatant act against separation of church and state. Weren't the democrats the one's always crying foul when Republicans attempt to speak at churches? Just another double standard.

EarlHickey
"You should be all over that S.S. teacher..."

While I agree with you in theory, on a practical level I also must factor in the feelings and educational well-being of my children. In our household, I am constantly exposing liberal lies and fallacies. My children fight me on some of it -my 16 year old swears minimum wage laws are good - but usually, when faced with logical conservative thought, they understand that their teachers' political ideologies are warped and harmful.

My 13 year old son, who was forced to watch Al Gore's idiocy, did not want me to cause a stink over this incident.

I have battled teachers, but I pick and choose. Most often, I wait for the end of the year and then communicate via email with the school administration. Nothing seems to change.

Another recent example of liberal shenanigans was when my son was studying ancient Greece. He was told that slaves and women did all the work, while boys and men had all the fun. I pointed out to my son that the Greek men were the ones who fought and died in the wars of the time. I also informed him that the boys spent the bulk of their childhood training to be warriors who could then fight and die while women stayed home. I went on to note that slaves in that culture also consisted of men and boys and you can bet that the male slaves were doing the hardest work and dying more often from the brutality.

Liberals love to paint history as a male utopia. They do this by focusing on the elites of the time. Of course, elites were a tiny fraction of the population and most men and women lived equally oppressed lives. This is ignored by many teachers in lieu of portraying women as victims of men.

The best cure for liberal indoctrination is for parents to take their job seriously and explain their values to their children. Each day I go over every class with my kids...I look for clues that something is being discussed in a biased manner. Once discovered, I straighten out the slant.

Until parents unite to stop the brainwashing of all children, I can only ensure that my children have the proper understanding of the lies, distortions, and misrepresentation of liberalism. My present day mission is to protect MY children. Hopefully in the future their will be enough of us to protect all children?


AudiR10
AudiR10

You are wrong. “Meteoric rise” is not an oxymoron.

What is the point of your post? What is the connection between “George” and Obama? You stated your opinion that they are very similar, but gave no examples to support your view. I don’t know much about Obama yet. Without knowing you personally, it is impossible for me to gain any insight into Obama’s character from your post. If you were someone I knew, I might be able to take what you’ve said and assign it some value in developing my opinion. But I don’t know you, and your post does not address the points made by the author. Instead, your post makes you sound like you think you are one of the chosen ones who can sniff out a person’s real character and motives a mile away, and that you are thus qualified to tell the rest of the world what to think. Best leave that to the liberals….

SimJim
I couldn't agree more.

It's sad that your idea of parenting is not the norm. Too often it is the expectation that character and morals should come out of our schools. That is frightening, as our schools have adopted a moral relativistic approach to culture and society.

I take my job as a father, husband, and man very seriously...we hold the key to the strength and weakness of our children.

Keep up the good fight. Your kids will thank you for it.

I can't believe..........
......we are even having this conversation!

This guy doesn't have the experience to run for Dog Catcher, let alone the Commander in Chief!

He has as much chance of being Pres as I do!

The American people are just not this easily shammed. He will never get close. Hitlery will make sure of that! She has yet to release her dogs, wait about 6 months.

The next Pres will be repub for the pure fact of who they are running against us! There are enough Dems who cannot stand to have either one of these idiots in office that they will have any chance at all!

American Voters just aint this stupid. If Newt puts his hat in the ring, he will be our next Pres! If not, it will be the man from New York. America will never let either one of these idiot Dems become Pres. I'll bet my dog on it!

B-Rob writes:
"No , they weren't in compbat with Kerry. Recall that Kerry had a total of ten guys on his boat in the year he was in Nam. One died in Nam, but told his wife great things about Kerry. One guy hated his guts. The remaining eight all said good things about him. His detractors, with the exception of Larry Thurlow, never fired shots with him. And Thurlow? Let's just say I am still waiting for him to return the medal he received for the fire fight he claimed never occurred!"

What FRIGGIN PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?

You know you are full of BAT GUANO don't you! Your explanation of the Swities is not only a lie, it's a DAMN LIE! Kerry Was on 2 different boats! That would bring the total to 20, or can't you count?!!!!!!

Kerry was only in Nam for 4 frikkin months! In that time he managed to collect 3, count 'em 3, purple hearts, of which none of them took more than a BAND AID to fix! If that is not enough to prove to you he is full of the same guano you're made of, then you are a lost cause. You are defending a TRAITOR! AREN'T YOU PROUD?!

The man actually met with our ENEMIES WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE RESERVES! That is TREASON you stupid PUKE, or doesn't that make a diff to you?! Nothing you can say will change that fact!

Get a frikkin CLUE! No wonder we can't stand liberals! You people defend TRAITORS!!!!!!!!!!

And to think you would have made him the PRESIDENT OF THESE UNITED STATES! Shows me exactly who you are! ESAD!!!!!!!

Do not underestimate Obama
I am saying this as someone who strongly disagrees with him on policy.

Obama is a presidential contender--if not in 2008, then next time. He could win in 2008. And do not kid yourself, he is a more dangerous candidate than Hillary Clinton.

Don't tell Mama...
As a proud liberal and lifelong Dem, I used to be (like, 8 years ago) really excited about the possibility of Pres. Hillary in 2009. But I've been doing my research on Barack, and I must say, I have never been happier with a pres. candidate in my life, and I think his common-sense, intelligent approach will spread like wildfire. Maybe some Repubs could shed some light for me- are you guys absolutely crapping your pants right now? Who's the best you got? Are the most conservative among you really gonna support Giuliani or Romney, both pro-choice until yesterday? And are moderate Repubs and soccer moms really gonna support Brownback or someone the right wants? I know it's early, but I think Obama is going to slide in to the Oval Office like a greased pig on a slip-n-slide. Sorry, guys.

JeffRob
As a proud liberal who has researched Obama, please share with us his positions that have you so excited? If you could also explain why he favors these positions that would be helpful? Try to go beyond "common-sense" and "intelligent" and tell us how they translate in the political world?

As a person who typically prefers the logic of conservatives over the emotionalism of liberals, I expect that whomever the Republicans put up will look mighty good next to the liberal ideology of Obama...maybe I'm wrong?

I've yet to vote for any candidate that represents all my views, but I consistently vote for the candidate who comes the closest. Perhaps with an explanation of his positions and why they are good for America, I could pull the lever for Barack?

Most Americans
"Obama is a presidential contender--if not in 2008, then next time. He could win in 2008. And do not kid yourself, he is a more dangerous candidate than Hillary Clinton."

While I agree with you that there is much buzz in the liberal media about Obama, if conservatives are able to cut through the noise and communicate what an Obama Presidency really means, then I have to believe that most Americans will reject his candidacy.

Yes, the media does its best to protect liberals from having to explain their views and political goals, so it isn't a given that American voters will enter the booth informed, but if they do, they won't pull the lever for more government intrusion, more taxes, more scare-mongering and less security.

I guess the rest of us will need to open eyes while the media attempts to pull wool over eyes. If we do it effectively, no liberal will be elected President. Most Americans realize liberalism is not good for them and their families.

Barack's positions
I copied this from the article mentioned and
the poster named, this might help:

Will Obama choose to be somebody or to do something?
By Star Parker
Monday, February 12, 2007
Donkeyhote writes: Monday, February, 12, 2007 7:04 AM Obama's Voting Record A sampling of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's votes during his two years in the U.S. Senate and his eight-year career as a state senator in Springfield:

U.S. Senate

ETHICS: Voted for an ethics bill that would ban lobbyist gifts and corporate-paid travel, as well as strengthen disclosure of earmarks and campaign donations. Obama and Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., pushed to strengthen the bill, according to watchdog groups backing reform.

WEAPONS PROLIFERATION: Teamed with U.S. Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., to sponsor a bill last year expanding efforts to locate and destroy weapons of mass destruction. It was signed into law about two weeks ago.

TAX CUTS: Voted last year against extending $70 billion in cuts in capital gains and dividend taxes. The bill passed and was signed into law.

JUDGES: Voted against Samuel Alito to be a justice on the Supreme Court and John Roberts to be chief justice of the court.

LABOR ISSUES: Voted against the Central American Free Trade Act but for a trade deal with the Middle East country of Oman.

ENVIRONMENT: Voted in 2005 against drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska.

Illinois Senate

SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE: In 2004, sponsored the Health Care Justice Act, which called for a study of a single-payer health care system for the state.

MINIMUM WAGE: In 2004, voted in favor of raising the minimum wage in Illinois to $6.50 an hour, up from $5.15 an hour.

STEM CELL: In 2004, backed legislation endorsing embryonic stem cell research.

GAY RIGHTS: In 2003, co-sponsored legislation banning discrimination based on sexual orientation.

ABORTION: In 2001, voted against a bill designed to protect what backers termed live babies born during abortion procedures. The bill did not become law.

ETHICS: In 1998, co-sponsored a bipartisan-backed package of legislation that overhauled state ethics laws.

SimJim:
I would put healthcare for all Americans at the top of the list, which I know isn't something conservatives even like the sound of, but hey, that's why I'm a Dem in the first place. We must ensure that the 46 million Americans without healthcare are not left to fend for themselves, and if rolling back some tax cuts is necessary, so be it.

Improving our public schools is one of Obama's highest priorities. Scrapping unfair and ridiculous voucher programs, putting tax money back into textbooks and football uniforms. Creating fair standardized tests that help reform curriculum. Trusting our local schoolboards to use their money as they wish, while adhering to federal and state anti-discrimination and sep of church/state laws.

Using our armed forces to fight the war on terror all over the world, not just in the Sunni triangle and Afghanistan. Training the Iraqi army to take back control so we can leave. And protecting our own borders without degrading the rights of our people.

Strengthening families in order to reduce crime and poverty, without clinging to the narrow, single-definition of family conservatives hold so dear. Recognizing the validity and needs of single-parent households, co-habitaters, gay and lesbian couples with or without children. Ensuring that all americans are treated equally not only legislatively, but also financially.

Yeesh, I could go on, but I fear most Townhall readers stopped reading this back at paragraph one. I'm glad a conservative like Ms. Liebau has so many nice things to say about him, and I think it's why he'll win. Look, I know conservatives aren't going to like him because he's a "Liberal's liberal", but if Karl Rove taught us anything, stick to your base! The question is will Obama appeal to Ohio soccer moms, and I think he will, and a whole lot better than Giuliani or Romney.

I love this
I very much appreciate this gracious acknowledgement of Mr. Obama's good qualities from someone who disagrees with his political stands. It's easy to find strong opinions these days - conservative opinions from conservatives, liberal opinions from liberals. What I search for, usually in vain, are those who can offer a calm and reasoned, factual viewpoint on any of the subjects we love to debate. This gives me hope.

JeffRob
Do you think it's all right to force personal/cultural issues and choices into legislation?

Do you believe in the Bill of Rights?

Do you think that our federal government does anything very effectively aside from collecting and spending taxes?

Answer those questions and be fashionable.

Forget B.O.....Here's M.S.

Utopia Doesn't Exist
"I would put healthcare for all Americans at the top of the list, which I know isn't something conservatives even like the sound of, but hey, that's why I'm a Dem in the first place. We must ensure that the 46 million Americans without healthcare are not left to fend for themselves, and if rolling back some tax cuts is necessary, so be it."

A lovely theory and it sounds just great, which is the reason so many unaware citizens think it's a fantastic idea. The problem, as with so much feel-good liberal rhetoric, is that it doesn't work out as promised. Liberals in power, such as Obama, know this and promise it anyway. They are liars who sacrifice the vitality of our society for their own personal gain.

Government controlled healthcare results in poorer healthcare for everyone except the elites who can afford to pay outside the system. I also find it disingenuous that you would think tax increases would fund healthcare since historically we know that tax increases decrease available funds. Why would liberals in the know continue to misrepresent the effects of tax cuts? Kennedy knew and increased taxes revenue by decreasing tax rates, yet for some reason this economic reality has been ignored by liberals since Kennedy. Liberals wouldn't be lying on purpose, would they? Did you know this economic reality or are you among the unaware?

How about this for universal healthcare. Work hard, make good life choices, and pay for your own healthcare? For the small fraction of the population that is unable to work hard and make good choices, we can have a healthcare safety net. Imagine what is possible if individuals begin to realize that they will be held responsible for their own decisions? I'm betting we'll have a country where better decisions are made. Works that way with parenting my children, and I expect even liberals will get the message of personal accountability...or maybe not.

"Improving our public schools is one of Obama's highest priorities. Scrapping unfair and ridiculous voucher programs, putting tax money back into textbooks and football uniforms."

You're kidding, right? You don't seriously consider football uniforms to be a "priority"?

"Creating fair standardized tests that help reform curriculum. Trusting our local schoolboards to use their money as they wish, while adhering to federal and state anti-discrimination and sep of church/state laws."

How about we stop funneling money to the Federal Government just to have them take a huge beauracratic chunk and then send back pennies on the dollar to the local schoolboards you trust so much? Instead, why don't we eliminate federal involvement in education and let local and State citizens decide what works best for their children? I know it is scary for most liberals to abrogate parental responsibility to parents, but why not give it a try?

"Using our armed forces to fight the war on terror all over the world, not just in the Sunni triangle and Afghanistan. Training the Iraqi army to take back control so we can leave. And protecting our own borders without degrading the rights of our people."

Sounds like you're a conservative on this one, and if Obama supports getting the job done in Iraq and Afghanistan, then at least he's right (pun intended) on one issue.

"Strengthening families in order to reduce crime and poverty, without clinging to the narrow, single-definition of family conservatives hold so dear. Recognizing the validity and needs of single-parent households, co-habitaters, gay and lesbian couples with or without children."

How about strengthening families by eliminating government programs which effectively replace Fathers? Why don't we first recognize the validity and needs of children to be raised by a Mother and a Father before we concern ourselves with the adults who make alternative life choices? Once we've secured the future health and well-being of children, perhaps we'll have time to worry about the feelings of adults.

"Ensuring that all americans are treated equally not only legislatively, but also financially."

Socialism and liberalism supposedly ensure financial equity. These ism are a proven failure. Americans should expect equal opportunity. Results cannot be mandated by government without destroying society.

"Yeesh, I could go on, but I fear most Townhall readers stopped reading this back at paragraph one. I'm glad a conservative like Ms. Liebau has so many nice things to say about him, and I think it's why he'll win. Look, I know conservatives aren't going to like him because he's a "Liberal's liberal", but if Karl Rove taught us anything, stick to your base! The question is will Obama appeal to Ohio soccer moms, and I think he will, and a whole lot better than Giuliani or Romney."

As long as Obama can count on the media to hide his views and objectives, soccer Moms and Dads might be fooled into thinking he offers positive solutions. Since the majority of Americans are logical and understand success in life depend on individual choices, I'm hopeful that no liberal will take the Presidency.

My concern remains ignorance among voters. Most conservative principles are logic based and when voters become aware of the true implications of things like "free healthcare" and "more money equals better education", they most often recognize it for what it is, pandering.

Liberal power seekers depend on the stupidity of voters and conservatives rely on the awareness of voters. As long as your side can keep the majority of voters stupid, you'll win. I have great confidence that the majority of Americans will make the smart choices.

Lydia...
would you suppose that giving a woman the choice to have an abortion compares equally to giving someone a choice to go to Iraq and get killed in a war that is doing nothing but putting more money in the pockets of people who don't need anymore money??

J

SimJim
A. Government-run healthcare for the poorest Americans DOES work, and how in the world could it cause healthcare to be "worse" for them, when there are 46 million people without any to begin with?! Decreasing tax rates instead of eliminating tax cuts is a great idea, and I'm sure when it's considered as a viable option again it'll be because there's a Dem in the White House. Just assuming that everyone has the resources to "work hard and make good choices" sounds like the utopia to me.
B. Of course football uniforms are a priority. Making our public schools the best in the world again should be our highest priority. It'll get us all closer to that utopia.
C. I think we're all conservatives when it comes to the war on terror. We need to get the job done period, but that doesn't mean keeping our troops in the middle of someone else's civil war.
D. Families with a mother and a father don't need the government's help. But again, it's utopic to assume that we can "encourage" people to make their households nuclear. Who would want to be a single mother? Making our best efforts, including the sacrifices of the wealthy, to help those who don't fit the "Morally correct" family model have the same opportunities as those who do (which they currently DO NOT) should be at the top of our agenda. It doesn't matter how "wrong" anyone thinks it is.
E. Financial equity is socialism and, contrary to conservative rhetoric, the Dem party is not a socialist one. Equal opportunity is everyone's goal, but the fact of the matter is that equal opportunity for all Americans does not exist, and our federal government can do a lot to even the playing field (I can hear you cringe from here).

I realize that we must encourage upward mobility and personal responsibility. But that never has to mean that we leave those who simply don't have the resources in the gutter. There are too many factors that go in to ones station in life, and to demand they be solely responsible for their own well-being is callous and unAmerican, IMHO.

Do You Believe It
For the sake of discussion, I'll leave the 46 million number unchallenged, although it is very suspect. How are the poor served by healthcare that is worse for everyone? They too would be the victims, not just the middle class. The very best way to help the poor is to provide motivation and incentive to make good life choices that raise them up from poverty. If you are poor, you guarantee yourself less of everything society has to offer. The only solution is to work hard and make wise life decisions. You can be certain that government is not the answer.

As for cutting tax rates, to my knowledge, liberals haven't done it since Kennedy. Kennedy did, Reagan did, and the current President did it - all with amazing, but not unsurprising, results for the economy. None of the liberal crop of candidates has mentioned lowering tax rates, but most of them have said they will increase tax rates. Not sure why you would think they would break this promise.

I do not assume that everyone has the resources to work hard and make good choices, but I do know that those incapable of working hard and making good choices is a small percentage of our population. No where near the 46 million you seem to think are imbeciles needing government handouts. Another liberal depending on American stupidity.

I find it highly amusing that you equate football uniforms with "making our public schools the best in the world". I thought you included uniforma as a joke, but the fact that you would consider football uniforms as a key component to education might prove you are correct about the stupidity of Americans.

I don't agree that we are all conservatives when it comes to the war on terror. Most liberals have screamed surrender since Vietnam. Giving their druthers, we'd all be hiding in our closet.

Nobody needs the government help, not family, not homosexuals, not anyone. The government is not a charitable organization which can pick and choose who needs help the most. Feel free to donate to any charity that supports the programs you most like, but I wish liberals would stop using the government as a charitable vehicle. Children need the government to stop destroying their families. They need the government to stop creating incentives for the creation of single Moms. If the government is going incentivize any family, and I wish it would stay out of it all together, then it should be the families that are healthiest for children

If liberalism isn't socialism, then you wouldn't be telling us that the goverment is the answer to healthcare, education, family structure, etc. Liberalism is a game of winners and losers. Liberals pick so-called winners on the basis of their votes. Sadly, liberal programs ensures that winners ultimately lose as a society designed to favor one group over another is a society destined for failure.

I guess conservatives have a lot more faith in the average American than liberals. Conservatives believe that the vast majority of Americans are capable of advancing out of the "gutter". Conservatives believe that living in the gutter is the result of liberal policies that attempt to make the gutter just comfortable enough to garner the support and votes of the people living in the gutter. Conservative believe it is callous to convince gutter dwellers that their survival depends on the government and not on themselves.

May G-d help us!
May G-d help us if Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama win the already decisively dictorial/police state Whitehouse...How about a real change for real progress? Protect the Constitution by supporting and voting for Ron Paul...

I agree with Ben.
I prefer Ron Paul to any of the current crop of hopefuls.

simjim
Have you ever been poor? Have you ever been in a position where you can't afford to go to a doctor? Yeah, while you're battling cancer you're going to find the "motivation" to pull yourself up from poverty. No, you want to be able to see a doctor.

And please prove that having the goal of providing health care for all Americans will "lower" health care for everyone. Do you have any examples?

One more thing
Even though we disagree with about 110% of his policies, Ms. Liebau obviously knew him before he became him and she is pointing out that to her he is a fundamentally decent person and what's wrong with that?

Healthcare for all Americans???
Simply put, it can't be done unless we completely surrender our sovereignty (over my dead body) and be absorbed by the EU...Then our medical care will stink just like the EU medical care...Why do you think so many non-americans come to America for medical treatment in the first place? Look at what they are now saying about the future of Social Security...Already hospitals and Doctors clinics are going broke because of the hugh influx of illegal immigrants. I do admit, it sounds pretty, but I bet it bites like a lion. Vote for Ron Paul and Roy Moore in 2008...if Mr. Paul selects Moore, that is...:-)

SimJim
I got a belly laugh when you discovered the importance of football uniforms to the post.
You were as shocked as I was.
I had stopped reading at the
"Scrapping unfair and ridiculous voucher programs,"
part and I missed the uniform thing.
The vouchers help the poor and blacks the most and are being sought by true blac liberals in Chicago. When you pointed out the football uniform thing I had to go back and see if you made it up.
Nope. True lib thinking. How about "Everyone has the constitutional right to a clean new football uniform for every game?"
How about the right to ipods?
You can see how far you are going to get with this guy.

Healthcare
"Simply put, it can't be done unless we completely surrender our sovereignty (over my dead body) and be absorbed by the EU."

WHY WOULD WE HAVE TO BE ABSORBED BY THE EU? ARE YOU SAYING THAT IRELAND CAN HAVE NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE, BUT WE AREN'T CAPABLE OF DOING SO? HOW DOES THE EU EFFECT EACH INDIVIDUAL COUNTRY'S HEALTHCARE???


..Then our medical care will stink just like the EU medical care...Why do you think so many non-americans come to America for medical treatment in the first place?

ACTUALLY, MANY PEOPLE ARE QUITE HAPPY WITH THE HEALTHCARE IN INDUSTRIALIZED EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. AND ABOUT THE NON-AMERICANS... I DON'T SEE THE HORDES OF EUROPEANS BEATING AT OUR DOORS RUNNING AWAY IN TERROR FROM THEIR HEALTHCARE.

I SEE PEOPLE FROM THE THIRD WORLD AND NON-INDUSTRIALIZED PLACES COMING HERE, MOSTLY PEOPLE FROM POORER COUNTRIES.

YOU MUST NOT THINK VERY HIGHLY OF AMERICA TO ASSUME THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO GIVE OUR CITIZENS HEALTHCARE.

Healthcare
Justone,

To the contrary, I think very highly of America and for its preservation. What is the population of Ireland? I doubt its anywhere near the US population. How many illegal immigrants are crossing the border in Ireland and shutting down their hospitals? I doubt more than a handful (if any) per year. The fact is, America has one of the best, if not THE best medical fields in the world. And its not mostly poor, third world country people coming to our hospitals. In fact, many of our missionary doctors go to them.

How poor is Kuwait? Qatar? England? France? China? Germany? Japan? etc, etc...? Our state has many people from each of these countries seek medical specialist each year.

Do you remember when car insurance became mandatory in every state? Statistics show that at any given time at least 17% of our driving population drives without insurance because they cannot afford it. The governement does not pick up the tab simply because it cannot afford to.

Medicaid in many states are going broke, having to slash coverage on many health benefits it once easily covered financially. Guidelines for benefits are changing to reflect that as it is becoming increasingly harder for those in need to be approved for Medicaid. Again, healthcare for all Americans sounds pretty, but I bet it'll bite like a lion...:-)

Thanks Ms. Liebau
I didn't get around to reading Ms. Liebau's column until today, but it is superb! I don't know whether I can support Obama - too early to say - but I congratulate her on her fairness despite the ideological chasm.

Unfortunately, there is far too little of such fairness in the media, including columnists. The Coulters, Hannitys, O'Reillys, Savages, and Limbaughs always want us to hate somebody and play a major role in polarizing Americans today. Frankens and Mahers, too. Some of us - less frenzied, more moderate and politically-concerned independents - are alienated by both extremes and are angry that they are doing damage to our beloved nation by encouraging bitterness and demonizing those who disagree. Then, some of them have the nerve to bemoan a diminishing civility!

Keep smiling.

JustOne
"Have you ever been poor?"

Sure, I grew up poor by American standards. I've never been close to poor by global standards, but then again, very few Americans have ever been poor by global standards. I guess it depends on whether "poor" means not being able to afford cable TV and brand name cereal or if you mean poor as in no running water and broth for dinner?


"Have you ever been in a position where you can't afford to go to a doctor?"

Not sure what that means? I've spent times in my life without insurance. I've never been turned away at the emergency room when I had an urgent medical need. I've never considered going for medical care at the first sniffle either, so perhaps I was being cost conscious? The cold could have been the first sign of a deadly illness, but not having free medical care, I took the chance. I'm still breathing.


"Yeah, while you're battling cancer you're going to find the "motivation" to pull yourself up from poverty. No, you want to be able to see a doctor."

I've never heard of one person in this country who died of cancer because they couldn't get care. Considering that over 10% of the population supposedly doesn't have insurance, and considering that a thousands get cancer every year, you'd think we'd read all about the cancer deaths due to lack of insurance, but somehow it doesn't work out that way. Can you explain it to me?

"And please prove that having the goal of providing health care for all Americans will "lower" health care for everyone. Do you have any examples?"

We have the best healthcare in the world. People come here from countries with government controlled healthcare...lots of people...rich people...elite people. I've not heard anything about our rich, elites going to Canada, England, Switzerland, Denmark....have you? I'm sure liberal elites have no problem with universal healthcare...it helps put them in power, and when the average person's medical care sucks, they'll simply pay for the better stuff. Socialism rarely hurts the elites. They make the rules for the rest of us, and have other rules for themselves.

Uncle Max
"Even though we disagree with about 110% of his policies, Ms. Liebau obviously knew him before he became him and she is pointing out that to her he is a fundamentally decent person and what's wrong with that?"

What's wrong is that it isn't true. He may have been pleasant on a one-to-one personal level, but liberals in power, such as Obama, are too much in the know to pretend they support liberal ideology for the benefit of citizens. I lean conservative because conservatism logically understands that liberal policies fail society each and every time they are employed.

From welfare to government controlled education to affirmative action to family law to everything else they advocate, liberalism harms people. Now, while liberals who live next door may believe that giving things to other people is nice and kind, liberal politician, such as Obama, definitely know that their orthodoxy harms average people, yet they still promote it. How can any "decent" person embrace policies that hurt the very people they claim to be helping?

As I've said, Joe or Jane liberal may be good hearted and misguided, but Joe or Jane politician is not benevolent, they are power hungry and they seek power at the expense of the weakest among us. This is shameful. Obama is one of them. Conclusion, Ms. Liebau either isn't a conservative and promotes Obama for her own personal gain, or she is terribly distracted by her personal experiences and disregards the horrible results of liberal policies that Obama advocates.

Rodval
"I got a belly laugh when you discovered the importance of football uniforms to the post.
You were as shocked as I was."

When I read it the first time, I figured it had to be a joke. When he came back and said uniforms were a crucial part of education, I lost it. He might not be very bright, but he is hilarious!

Don't Forget
"How poor is Kuwait? Qatar? England? France? China? Germany? Japan? etc, etc...? Our state has many people from each of these countries seek medical specialist each year."

Don't forget our socialist neighbors to the north who stream down here for medical treatment. Apparently, waiting months for a medical test isn't very appealing when you live next door to the best healthcare in the world. Sadly, I'm sure most of them are the elites of Canada, and the "poor" (as in no cable tv) suffer with their illnesses until the government decides it is their turn for care. Did I hear someone say "next!"

Many Are Happy
"ACTUALLY, MANY PEOPLE ARE QUITE HAPPY WITH THE HEALTHCARE IN INDUSTRIALIZED EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. AND ABOUT THE NON-AMERICANS... I DON'T SEE THE HORDES OF EUROPEANS BEATING AT OUR DOORS RUNNING AWAY IN TERROR FROM THEIR HEALTHCARE."

Since the every day medical needs of most people are pretty unsubstantial, I'm certain that a person who gets to visit with a doctor at no cost to them (at least they can measure) to discuss their latest tummy ache is very happy to escape without having to pay a dime.

Unfortunately, free medical care, like free anything, results in less descretionary consumers. To make it simple, if TVs were free, I wouldn't be picky about how long my TV lasts. Free stuff doesn't have to be as good, because it's free...get it?

Same applies to healthcare...except when you have a real medical need and you then realize that your government healthcare isn't really free because it cost you or someone you love their life. Most people, the happy people, remain oblivious to the fact they've traded lives for free healthcare. By the time they figure it out, it is often too late...they're dead. The unrelated survivors continue to use up limited medical resources for their minor medical problems and they are content.

Just The Facts, Mamm
It tickles me to read all the long arguements about which political party is better because nothing tells the story better than when things are factual.
In Oklahoma two Governors got in trouble with the law. One went to jail and the other went to night court ( not available to us peons) and pled guilty to a misdemeanor and the judge dropped a felony charge so that rascal got off with no jail time.
Then there is the former state senator who got caught trying to buy an election and was sentenced to jail but has yet to servre a day in the clink.
What do these stalwarts of our goverment have in common?
You guessed it! they're DEMOCRATS!!!

Jail
Apparently, being a lib means having a get out of jail free card.

Barack Obama
Carol, like you, I have always felt that, although I very much disagree with Barack Obama's political views, Barack is a very decent human being. He is not like the typical liberal, who is plastic and who does everything for political gain.

If a Democrat ends up in the White House (and God help us if it happens), I would prefer Barack Obama to ALL of the other Democrats. Especially Hillary. She doesn't have a shred of decency within her.

Very Decent Human Beings?
I don't think of that era of the Harvard Law Review as being staffed by decent human beings. Wasn't 1992 (one year after Obama graduated, but certainly still w/in the same group)the year that the HLR decided to parody the work of a murdered law professor, Mary Jo Frug, and rub it in the face of her husband, a prof at Harvard Law, who was supposed to attend the review's banquet? Wasn't there an investigation of misogyny at the HLR from 1988-92? I can't think of anything that Hillary Clionton has done that is as disgusting as that parody of a murder victim. McCain and Clinton are far more decent than Obama or the author of this column.
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