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Thursday, February 19, 2009
Cal  Thomas :: Townhall.com Columnist
Time to Say "Goodbye" To GM and Chrysler
by Cal Thomas
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General Motors made my first car. It was a 1955 two-tone Chevrolet with stick shift and black tires. It had an AM radio and air conditioning, if I hand-cranked the window down in summer. It came with bench seats, the better to have your date close to you. I bought it used (this was before cars were "pre-owned") in 1961. My Dad co-signed the $750 note, which I paid.

Those were the days when you could fill up for pocket change. Somewhere I have old Esso receipts that show a full tank of regular gas cost me $3 dollars.

Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and Cadillac were the mainstays of GM, as Fairlane, Crestline Skyliner, Falcon and later Galaxie were for Ford, some of which I would own as an adult. I would also own some Chrysler products, so I have contributed to the profits of all the "Big Three."

Ford is fending for itself without a bailout from Washington, but GM and Chrysler have filed their restructuring proposals with the government in order to receive additional billions to keep them solvent. On Tuesday, GM received the final $4 billion on a $13.4 billion federal commitment. Chrysler, also getting $4 billion, has already requested an additional $3 billion. The money is conditioned on GM and Chrysler coming up with comprehensive restructuring plans that will prove to the government that they have made "aggressive" progress since they pleaded with lawmakers last December for financial aid. Members of Congress told the company CEOs that everyone had to make sacrifices, including management, unions, suppliers, investors and bondholders.

Here's a better idea: Let them die a slow death, with the emphasis on slow. Tell workers (management always seems to land on its feet) that they have a fixed amount of time to look for new jobs. Government will help them with training and education, but government cannot prop up companies that no longer make products people want to buy in large enough numbers for them to remain profitable.

There are many reasons the car companies are in trouble, all of which have been reported in the major media, but that is the past and it is way too late in the game to do much about guaranteed pensions and health care that ended up crippling GM, even after the company successfully negotiated with UAW members to decrease retirement benefits, which, honestly, is a little like quitting smoking after being diagnosed with lung cancer.

Some of the cars of my childhood are no more. Kaiser-Frazier was the biggest postwar challenger to the Big Three. Models included the 1949 Kaiser Custom Vagabond, the 1948 Frazer Manhattan four-door sedan, the Dragon sedans and Henry J coupes. In 1970, Kaiser, then known as the Kaiser Jeep Corporation, was sold to American Motors Corporation.

Other auto companies either went out of business or were bought. These included Packard ("ask the man who owns one"), Studebaker ("first by far with a postwar car"), and Hudson, which began making cars in 1909 and, like other automobile companies, in early 1942 was ordered by the U.S. government to stop making passenger cars and concentrate exclusively on fulfilling war contracts. In 1954, Hudson eventually merged with Nash-Kelvinator to become American Motors, a company that lasted in one form or another until 1987 when Chrysler gobbled it up.

None of these companies (and many more before them and after with names such as Tucker, DeLorean and Duesenberg) received government bailouts. If they couldn't sell their products at a profit, they either sold out, or went bust. People who worked for them found other jobs. No one starved to death.

Americans have benefited from capitalism. Our government should not be undermining an economic system that has produced more prosperity for its citizens than any nation on earth. It cannot forever prop up companies that make products not enough people wish to buy. If a growing number of people prefer cars not produced by GM and Chrysler, how will a government rescue plan make them more likely to buy them?

The "going out of business sale" sign should go up now. Taxpayers should not be expected to underwrite dying companies, unless we get a free car for our money. But that only happens on "Oprah."

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About The Author
Cal Thomas is co-author (with Bob Beckel) of the book, "Common Ground: How to Stop the Partisan War That is Destroying America".
 
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Goodbye GM-How about Goodbye Banks?
What a mindless piece of over-used writing ability. Most of it is some sentimental journey down automotive lane and the rest is a knee-jurk reaction endorsing some pure capitalism that never existed from the first in America. Just check the railroads and canals from the 19th century.

What does letting GM cease to exist cost America? The government picks up much of the cost for retirees. How much? What about health care? Again, how much will it cost? If GM didn't have legacy costs, would it be making money? At one time recently, one in five people in the United States were receiving some of their health care benefits from GM. What's the cost now? What is the cost if that goes away? What states will be on their backs and asking for bailout money when these companies fail? While your bringing us facts on the auto industry instead of this mindless drivel, pick up a few facts on the banks as well. They got so much more and gave so much less.

Jim CA 2/19 10:43PM
C'mon Jim. You should be careful about calling someone dumb when you believe that our SS money has not been spent but is in Treasury Bonds.

Every single dime of surplus from SS has been stolen every year by Congress and spent in the General Fund. This enabled Congress to keep increasing their spending without having to approach taxpayers for an tax increase.

Government replaced these embezzled funds with Treasury Bonds that actually are nothing other than IOUs. Jim, there is no money in the so-called Trust Fund. When it comes time to pay back those IOUs, those funds will come in the form of future taxes paid by taxpayers who have to make the bonds good.

This also means that contrary to conventional wisdom, there was no budget surplus in the 1990s. If you counted the money stolen from the SS surplus to fund the operating budget (approximately $200 billion per year) and add that to the actual numbers you can see that we still ran actual deficits in those so-called surplus years.

Americans with short Memories
Why should the American Workers pay the price for the top heavy Management/Execs laden GM or of course the Liberal Democrat brainless Idea of NAFTA that did nothing for the American car Manufacture workers in the U.S.. They build what there told to build so to see and hear the disloyalty towards a Company that has produced Quality cars in more than 3/4 of its history is Ludicrous, we should do everything we can to hold on to a American Company that has been apart of our history in the car business and has taught the world how to produce Quality cars. Who do you think will back fill our lose China/India who are slowly becoming a world power in Manufacturing and we are sadly helping them do it, And if the Treasonous Liberals who show no loyalty towards our Country need a history lesson, its been the Democrats who have done more to damage our once proud and powerful Manufacturing with deregulation and NAFTA and now we are whining about just letting go of the Largest Car Manufacture on the Planet, what a shame, its time our Country and its people come before any Foreign Company, Country or its people, Screw toyota,honda ECT... its not our responsibility to support there Economy over our own, so wake up America and be like what the Japanese found out along time ago (don't wake the sleeping Giant) and get back to building our own products with our own workers.

GM's own executives
say the Volt will lose money for several years and may never make money because it costs too much to produce. The 40000 tag doesn't even come up even for GM.

And people wonder why bankruptcy is forcasted.

Buy Ford!
I have decided that I'll buy a car from a car dealer that DOESN'T take any stimulous money. So far, Ford has refused, and I think they'll be showing some decent profits by the end of the year if they stay strong.
I decided this when I saw Congress grill the CEO's for planes, etc. Did you realize that We, the People paid for Nancy and her merry men...and their families to go to Europe? Also, Nancy managed to push through a raise for Congress in December of over $4,000.00 each. Look in the mirror, Congress.
Unions started out with a good idea. They went the same way as politicians...downhill. I don't respect unions anymore, and I definitely don't want to belong to one. I know it's simplistic UAW, but you, just like churches and schools, have NO business hoisting your political views on your workers.
If you persist and everything begins to be 'unionized', I can only hope for sweet justice. That will be the day that a 'union' leader walks bleeding into a 'unionized' hospital, only to be told that the doctors and nurses are on 'break'.

payments
Jim writes about social security:
"You should be paying 6 or 8 times as much as 50 years ago."


Hmmmmmm.... 50 years ago is ~1960
1960 6%
http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.asp#Taxes

6*0.06= 0.36 (8*.06= 48 or 48%)

so you propose a 36% tax on those who are working to pay those who retire. Interesting. You must be retired.

Government?
"Here's a better idea: Let them die a slow death, with the emphasis on slow. Tell workers (management always seems to land on its feet) that they have a fixed amount of time to look for new jobs. Government will help them with training and education, but government cannot prop up companies that no longer make products people want to buy in large enough numbers for them to remain profitable."

Government is entirely to blame for the plight of the auto makers and the economy over all. Bush and congress spent this country into it's present economic morass, not to mention the burdens placed on the economy in past decades. Government is one, big, unproductive enterprise and as it grows, what is productive, General Motors or Chrysler, necessarily has to decline. Government will help them? Don't make me laugh.

Come on dumb dumb


TruLib Location: VA
Reply # 150
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:39 PM EST
Steve
Social Security is insolvent now. They have spent the money and are busy spending money that won't be earned years from now.
=========

Come on dumb dumb, the money was not spent, it is invested in Govt Bonds.

Look it up where ever you want to.

The problem is, Congress did not keep raising the percentage of money taken out of the pay check, to keep up with inflation.

You should be paying 6 or 8 times as much as 50 years ago.

GM and the Volt
The long awaited plug in hybrid offering from GM brings out the Volt. Looking at their specs it looks like nothing special except for the proposed $40,000 price tag. I am sure some will buy it at that price but I will not.

The question I have is did GM consider ways to reduce the need for servicing of the IC engine, the cooling system and now the big battery pack plus all of the regenerative components in the brakes? This car looks expensive to own even if it saves on gas.

Is the American taste in cars for luxury in everything? Is there no apetite for a good car without all the frills? My first car was a 57 Chevy. It was not plush but was a cool ride. If government information is correct most people, who drive to work, have a daily commute of 25 miles. That means about 15-20 minutes each direction. Do we need a luxury car for such mundane trips?

If we stripped away all the fancy interior, multi speakered stereo, 6 way adjustable seats, power everything would the price of the car change that much? Before you say no consider fast food restaurants. The fountain soft drink has very little cost maybe 10 cents for cup, drink and ice and yet they charge you $1.25. The soft drink is a significant part of their profit. And I submit the car's luxury items are a significant part of a car's profit as well.

Steve
Social Security is insolvent now. They have spent the money and are busy spending money that won't be earned years from now. This entire exercise in government at this point is a huge Ponzi scheme that will come unraveled and everybody will be on their own.

Or do you think it works to just raise taxes to cover whatever the government wants to spend no matter how much they want to spend? Or is it better to just print money? Eventually the piper must be paid and everyone will find out there is no money left. We are being bribed with our own money and cheering those that are pulling the scam.

I actually prefer American cars...

But I will be buying foreign as long as the UAW is donating 99% of their political contributions to Democrat candidates.

To a union member 2
Remember that, in 1990, these Democrat-party federal-level politicians greatly increased these taxes to force tens of thousands of employers to put millions of Americans out of jobs, to anger the people and get President Bush out of office. In 1991, the democrat-controlled PA state government did the same for no apparent reason other than “they could”. How many union members lost their jobs? Did the politicians ask for union permission to destroy jobs? All union members are paying the politicians to cut union members’ throats!!!

You must get the membership to send the local union boss to the state union boss and to the national union boss. The state and national bosses should go to the state bosses and national bosses of all the other unions. All the union bosses should go to the state and federal politicians to tell them that they will not get any more money, support, and votes until they repeal all these destructive, union-job-destroying taxes and get rid of the illegal aliens who are taking union jobs. If they don’t repeal the taxes and deport the illegal aliens, use the primary election to give your support to a candidate who will.

At this time, the state and national bosses can give copies of “One Tax And Done” and “How To Get Rid of Illegal Aliens” to each politician. I’ll follow this letter with state and federal versions of it. You probably haven’t thought about it, but if all those taxes had been repealed by 1946, we would have one of the best railroad systems in the world, and you wouldn’t have to worry that Amtrak might go under and your job might not last for ten more years – a concern you’ve expressed to me. The money that these taxes take from Amtrak is needed by Amtrak to stay in business and provide jobs; and the jobs taken by illegal aliens are needed by you and your union brothers.

To a union member 1
You oppose my Total Tax Reform plan called “One Tax And Done”. Do you really enjoy paying much more for everything than you should have to pay; and do you enjoy seeing many union jobs taxed out of existence? There is something that you haven’t considered:

It is your duty to sell the plan. It is your duty and responsibility to your union, to go to your union meetings and remind the other members that they pay a lot of money to the union as dues, and that a lot of that dues money (how much?) is given by the union bosses to state and federal Democrat-party politicians to keep them in office. Your union bosses don’t give any money to Republican-party politicians.

It is also your duty to remind the membership that these Democrat-party politicians are constantly passing more and higher taxes, some of which are to be used to give an additional 845 billion dollars to the UN. These taxes have forced and continue to force many tens of thousands of employers out of business, out of the state, and out of the country, along with all the many jobs these employers provided. This is called outsourcing, and taxes are one of the main reasons for it. Hershey’s closing of the Luden’s Candy factory where Mom worked is a good example of this. Luden’s is a union shop, and the union jobs are going to Mexico, India, and Red China, thanks to all the destructive taxes the Democrat-party politicians passed and increased.

These same Democrat-party politicians are also trying to get amnesty for the many millions of illegal aliens, so they can take jobs presently held by long-term union members. Ask members of construction unions, who have already lost their jobs to illegal aliens, about this. The politicians you are paying to keep in office are taxing millions of union jobs out of existence, and are trying to get illegal aliens into others.


Don't forget
Beside union wages and pension plans, the price also includes the hundreds or thousands of taxes levied on every company involved in every phase of making every part in a car by every levell of government. It's possible that taxes are 1/3 of the price.

If automakers went bankrupt, they could be bought by someone who would hire back the workers with the provision that mentioning unions would get them fired. They would make cars more efficiently that would be sold at a competitive price.

Reba #139: American steelmakers won't get any benefit, because Odumbo plans to tax the coal industry out of business, and coal is required to make steel.

can the retirees crash at your place?
"privatize social security"

Unbelievable, how would anyone consider this on the day that the Dow hit new lows? The only thing standing between tens of thousands of retired autoworkers and a cardboard box (for a home) is Social Security.

Countless machinists and other skilled tradesmen labored for thirty or more years confident that GM (and the union!) would be there for them in their old age. Social Security is all they have left. And if it was privatized, it would now be insolvent.

GM and Chrysler
The great suggestion Cal submits will be roundly ignored by our politicians, or more accurately, the ones currently in office. It would be a certain career-ender. That being said, I can predict with 100% accuracy who will win every election.

Those who I vote for ALWAYS lose. I try to find candidates who will roll back taxes, privatize social security, radically change tort law, and shrink the government.

Of course, no candidate in the past 20 years has promised the above, but some were moderately close so I voted for them.

They lost.

Just ask next time who I'm voting for, and you'll know who the next winner will be. He or she will be my candidate's opponent.

Goodbye to overpriced automobiles
They never learn. The automakers needs to learn from Walmart. It's better to sell volume then one or two automobiles at an over inflated price. The businesses who needed bailouts tried to move the economy in the direction they wanted it to go with their high prices and it's come back to bite them on the butt. Everyone wanted to set the market from the banks to the automakers. The oil companies were the best. They knew we needed our cars to get to work and they had us over a barrel. They charged whatever they wanted with a different excuse each week why they were doing so. You can push the people only so far until they push back and shut down on buying. There's not one automaker who charges what their cars are worth. Not counting the exotic cars.

Rolled over
I wonder what would have happened if the car companies just ignored all the US government demands and just continued to build and sell cars that Americans wanted instead of the light weight pieces of crap they were forced to make.
Sure they would have beeen taken to court and fined, but so what. Since they are going out of business anyway, could they have ignored them and just let the government put them out of business since that IS what is happening anyway, isn't it?
At least I would have liked to see them say to California "OK, we will no longer sell any vehicles in you state". We woud have seen an uprising from the people who demand their products, especially the pick up trucks.
Now, it appears it is all the manufacturer's fault that they can't make a buck, when we know that they were rolling in the dough before the likes of Nadar came around.

'51 Plymouth was the greatest

My '51 Plymouth was the greatest, except for the78 Caddy we drove for 22 years.

I wouldn't buy one of those Jap cars at least until the admit the the rape of Nanking.

They killed more people at Nanking, then two atomic bombs did to end the war.

Bye-bye, GM
Isn't the answer to this problem merely allowing them to build cars that people want...Without all the gingerbread demanded by Congressional leaders who don't have a clue about running a business or satisfying the public taste? Granted, the company shouldn't try to persuade the people that only the company knows what buyers want but a simple survey of what people demand in a car should put them on the right track. Labor should go along because if the company folds, so do their benefits (they were disproportionate, anyhow). Simple answers, it seems, are eternally beyond the ken of legislators and the economists they rely on to our detriment.

WHO CREATES JOBS

Who does Obama, Pelosi, Reid and those tax cheaters in the Obama administration think creates jobs?

It is the millions of Americans who own a small business, put up their life savings, work hard, sweat for years to make a viable business and hire 80% of the work force in this country. A majority do not receive millions in bonuses, golden parachutes, hire expensive lobbyist and own jets, none expect bailouts. Companies like GM, Chrysler, AIG, Fannie Mae and Exxon only employ 20% of the work force in this country.

So please tell me, which business sector should be given the consideration at this time?

I know that many small businesses will benefit from the infrastructure construction jobs and a few energy programs, but we all know these are only temporary jobs with a long list of government strings on every bid. Not free enterprise.



Mod Mark
"just having some anti-greenie gas guzzling and lets rib up anything in our path fun"
--------------
Yeah, it's been 8 years so I am sure since then, some hick drove his Prius out there plastered with his Al Gore bumper stickers.

Funny though Volkswagon Bug is the model for most of these dune buggies. Peace, Love, Throttle. :-)

Mod Mark
"My brother was having some issue with his 14' whip and up comes one of those v-8 dune buggies. I think he had a spare tranny in the back seat, just it case!"
---------------
Yeah you had to use the buddy system.Trailering in the rig to the parking area was wise. Some guys were street legal but the breakage of equipment was a guarantee so driving to the park was risky. Might not be able to drive home. Somebody was always willing to tow you out, but still had to get it fixed once outside the park. The extra tranny was common.

Time to Say Goodbye to GM and Chrysler
The industry was continuing to reinvent itself without the federal government involvement. The companies had plans in place to grow or die
as is the business model. We read of the contraction of business everyday here in Detroit.
Washington DC is truly a bubble. Contraction of the workforce they witness is the movement of jobs based on party power centers changing hands. The plus and minus of Republicans and Democrats adds to net zero. Government expands, government employment is created and government becomes the only 'business' capable of creating a 'secure economy'. Have we heard federal job cuts spoken?
The auto industry does not shrink from 17 million auto sales to 10 million auto sales caused by the federal government and expect American businesses to thrive in crisis. A word tossed about recklessly. Government put the American worker in this crisis position with bad practices and no oversight. And no one knew it was coming. I give not a damn whose is at fault. Emotional argumentation is the domain of one party only.
Foreign owned auto transplants survive better in every country. It is the home office market that is always in trouble. Take a look at how each government protects their industries. Begin with Britain who currently has no major auto industry.
Your argument is valid within supply and demand cycles. But today I hear the echo of an empty rain barrel because of congressional leadership. The more they handout, the faster we the individual will roll up to the federal government feeding trough.
It ain't easy to lead.

ModMark
Back when I was going there (been about 8 years now) there was some heated debate over the "noise" polution coming from the park.

Area residents (mostly expensive tourist homes) were whining about the added noise, so when going in the park, you had to get a pass ahead of time and along with that was a "noise" check. You had to rev up to a certain RPM and the decibles were checked. Too loud, no entrance allowed. It was a joke. Of course easy to manipulate this but DNR didnt care as long as decibles were under.

The flip side being that there was several expensive homes slowly being swallowed by the dunes. The dunes move at a decent rate and homeowners not allowed to bulldoze or move them. Nature must take it's course. Rumor was several homes already buried beneath the dunes.


TNX for the automotive memories, Cal!

Great recap of the cars of yesteryear!

My four first cars were all Chevies:
1948 2-door, green, torpedo-back Fleetwood
1954 4-door, cream over green, Bel Aire sedan
1959 dreamboat convertible, tan-with-black-top and copper-colored-vinyl interior
1962 2-door, green Bel Aire sedan

Next came the 1971 Dodge Coronet station wagon that was the best performer of the Detroit bunch

Then came these real good performers (by now we are a 2-car family)...
1969 VW bug
1982/5 Nissan Sentra (the 1st was totaled in an accident)
1984 Nissan Stanza
1989 Mazda MX6, still going strong at 238k miles
1998 Mazda 626, ditto at 188k miles
ARE YOU BEGINNING TO SEE A TREND?
Just did our bit to help the economy by purchasing a 2009 Mazda6

Don't think we'll ever go back to Detroit!

For the defunct Chryslers
The best would be NOT to service them--at all.

I've driven several models by Chrysler as rentals, when I had no other choice available--all consistently got worse mileage than larger GM products (oft with larger engines), let alone foreign (Toyota, Nissan) models.

For defunct GM's, well there's enough of them around that cannibalisation from falling-apart ones could keep the still-running ones functional for another decade.

Cal Thomas
writes, "Time to say "Goodbye" to GM and Chrysler"

Okay. Bye Bye. Don't let the door hit your fanny on the way out.


Barn Rat it is.
"...but the Union thugs are resposible here"
------------
Yep. Sickens me to see the UAW head on television spewing about corporate greed as he passes the buck to GM management. These thugs are the worst of the worst and they hang out with the likes of Carl Levin (D. MI) who manages to keep his job by working the greens at UAW owned resorts.

Hoogendyk spent the campaign season trying to unseat Levin. He drove across the state in his Dodge Caravan, 10 years old with 250,000 miles on it. The GOP wouldn't give him a dime to run a TV ad, because they knew it would be wasted dollars knowing Levin already shined enough union shoes to keep his post.

Great Column
for sure. Take a couple of pics of your favorite cars (think what a market that will become) and let them go. There's only ONE reason the fat cats are fighting so hard to keep them afloat - but we will never know what's in it for them. All we will know is that we will pay for it. Thanks Retired Geek for your intelligent input. It's always a pleasure to read what you have to say.

What we need now - and I hope our best brains will come up with a sure fire remedy - is a way to get every slimy lying politician out of Congress once and for all. Yes, I am serious. I know it sounds a little crazy but no crazier than this plan to quadruple our debt and spend our way out of this mess. I don't want the teacher's union or any union to get another cent from honest citizens everywhere. They have slit their own throats and they, too, should go the way of high button shoes. Good riddance. How about some honest businessmen and honest workers getting together to rescue us from this fate worse than death (slavery to libs).

The Quality Perception Lingers
Many people still feel burned by the poor quality of the 80's and earlier 90's. Any American car with more than 100,000 miles on it was considered a beater. Meanwhile Honda's and Toyotas and Datsuns ran forever; they still do. Now the quality between American and Japanese/Korean is about the same, but the affects of quality problems linger in the minds of American consumers. Plus, since the Koreans entered the market there are just too many choices, and their cars are good too.

Mod Mark
Ah Silver Lake Dunes. Been there a few times. Been awhile though. If it has a motor and wheels, I have seen it there. Once saw a Chevy Beretta 14 foot flag and all. Like you said, the SUV Lexus too.

A friend of mine had a V8 2 seater dune buggy. Not too many V8 dune buggys with motor in the back. Magnesium engine, used a lot in small aircraft. Light motor, lots of juice, we used to pull a wheelie going up the first steep hill. Yep people would stare.

The best was the waterhole pulls. Two guys hook their vehicles rear hitches together starting in a waterhole in the sand, closer to the lake, stomp the gas and see who gets pulled or who does the pulling. Hillbilly Heaven.

Mod Mark
I loved both of my Celicas but they were also the absolute worst cars to drive in the snow because back then they were still rear wheel drive. I only got 70K out of my 1975 which had its fenders rot out in less than six years. My 1981 held up a little better and I was able to get about 129K from it. That's when I bought my 1989 Camry and without a doubt it has been my best car ever. I now have a 1999 Honda Accord and it has also been a great car.

My 1997 Chrysler minivan was a nice car until about 3 years ago and now it is on constant suicide watch. We rarely take it anytime we will be any significant distance from home.

I also recently rented a Nissan Altima which had the push starter. What a great car and so much fun to drive. However, Avis stopped renting them because they say the remote keyless starter goes bad very quickly and renters were getting stranded all over the place. Too bad.

The Liberals...
are saving the unions (UAW) not the companies. It's the elephant in the room.


so all I see are ugly, ugly, ugly.

Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, I rented at least 6 cars most months, somewhere. I had a hard and fast rule, I would take no Chrysler car with more than 5,000 miles on it, no Ford with more than 10,000, no GM car with over 15,000 and no Jap car at all.

Since I rented hundreds of cars in those years, I learned a lot about them.

I often landed in Portland, drove to Salem, then back to Portland, then to Seattle, and over the years the cars went from needing no gas, to needed gas, then not needing gas.

The same for flying into San Jose, driving all over the Bay Area for a day or so, then to Sacramento. The quality of the car, and the gas mileage changed during those two decades, beyond your imagination.

These days I drive to the grocery store and back, sometimes, so all I see are ugly, ugly, ugly.

By the way, I have also rented cars on Saipan, Guam, and a half dozen other Pacific Islands, and a dozen cars that I drove for a combined 25,000 miles in many places in Europe.


Mod Mark
Same with my 89 Camry. The thing would have run forever if it didn't start falling apart from the rust. The engine was phenomenal.

I had given it to my son while he was at college in Boston. He was broken-hearted when we had to junk it 5 years ago but he kept the dashboard with the odometer on it. I bought him a 96 Honda Accord that is still going strong now with over 150K on it.

My son is developing helicopter robots that fly themselves with AI. Maybe he can turn his attention to cars. He did work for Honda assisting them with pattern recognition for their R&D efforts. He also worked with Mercedes helping them to calculate the cognitive savings of mental energy for drivers due to their automated alert systems warning of approaching hazards and following too closely.

My wife and I are convinced we brought the wrong kid home from the hospital.

western bondbeam

western bondbeam
Location: MI
Reply # 37
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:53 AM EST Barn Rat, Sewer Rat, Industrial Rat
Viking Rat....I can't keep up.

Good post guy 12:55 am. All spot on. Even "not blaming the workers" in a general sense. Although they lose some credit with their "drag our feet" mentality at times.

I have dealt with construction trades (both union and non union) and for the most part, non union guys get higher production rates. When a greenhorn 20somthing gets his first union job, the first thing the older guys teach him is to SLOW DOWN. Many reasons for this...quota maximums being the main culprit. Their hands are tied though so I shouldn't blame them too much.

~~~

Mr Bondbeam,

My favorite is Barn Rat.

I go with many aliases to thwart the fools.

You do make a good point with the foot draggers, but the Union thugs are resposible here.

SLOW DOWN ! You are making everyone else look bad !

Yes. Both my wife and I have heard that very phrase from union thugs.

~~~

I guess I used too many 3 syllable words and confused the two folks below.

Sorry guys. Don't like 'em? Scroll past.


~~~ ~~~
STAN
Location: KS
Reply # 18
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:33 AM EST RATAS
WHAT ON EARTH DID YOU SAY?

~~~~~
oracle1
Location: GA
Reply # 20
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:58 AM EST agree with Stan...
Ratas sometimes gets too obtuse for me, though s/he is capable of good points... both unions and management are culpable for Detroit's demise... but unions are the greater, more pernicious evil.

Random auto ramblings
--ModMark - "They {GM} have way too many dealers out their and they need to consolitate under one GM flag."
Sorry, but IMHO the problem out there is the opposite - brands like Toyota, Honda and Nissan have too FEW dealers. Live in an urban area? Great, you can find a Toyota dealer nearby. But out here, I'd have to go 50 miles to get one (and what about service?)
-- This will PO car guys, but I'm sure glad Bob Lutz is retiring from GM. He's a big blowhard whose ideas of what us "customers really like" have made him a Typhoid Mary of the US auto industry for 40 years. He's the clown who made Saturn drop plastic body panels because he felt they made the panel gaps too big.
-- True story. In the early '90's I bought a new Ford, and soon received a 4 page customer satisfaction survey from Ford corporate. But All of the questions except ONE were about the dealer -- just a single, offhand query about whether I was satisfied with the car, or could suggest any improvement. I was so amazed at their incuriosity that I enclosed a letter back with the survey pointing out how inadequate it was.
They responded by sending me another copy of the same survey.


Too Late, and Not Just Costs
Even if GM could escape those onerous legacy costs and put an end to being the country's largest healthcare provider, they still can't survive. There is tremendous overcapacity in the worldwide auto industry. In fact the overcapacity level is very close to the number of vehicles that GM built worldwide in 2006.

Just think! GM could cease as a productive business and the worldwide market would only be brought back in line with current and near term demand. As Schumpeter stated, when an industry is in an overcapaicity situation, the most inefficient producer will, by definition, not survive.

If the Government saves GM, it simply prolongs this period of over capacity. Therefore, who will artifically pick the producer to be sacrificed to bring capacity in line with demand. The market is very efficient at that selection, Government is NOT efficient in picking winners and loosers.

Hell, let's just shut down the Korean manufacturers. But, don't shutdown Volvo, Suburu, Volkswagen or Mercedes - what would the leftists drive

Planned Obsolescence
Maybe the WORST idea ever to come out of American manufacturing was the concept of "Planned Obsolescence" where a product was DESIGNED to fail after a certain period of use, (in automobiles, this seemed to be at about 100K miles or a bit less) which would FORCE consumers to buy another to replace it. The Japanese saw this as a poor idea and built cars for sale in the US that would last for twice that long...and more. The American auto industry started losing market share--particularly to the Germans and Japanese--in large measure because their cars kept their value. A Volkswagon, for example, in 1962 sold for about $2.5K. In 1968 you could buy a used one for about $2K which meant that in 6 years, the thing only lost $500 in value. A Pontiac, on the other hand went from $3K to $1K in the same period. The same was true for Honda Civics for most of Honda's early history here in the U.S. Even today, Honda products (I have a Honda lawnmower) last an extraordinarily long time compared to U.S.-made products of similar initial value. My lawnmower is almost 20 years old and has had the blade replaced numerous times, but STILL starts with fewer than 3 pulls on the starter rope...every time.

Cal again ....
..reasons with sober common sense in his analysis of the American car companies.

That being said, his counsel will be soundly rejected by the potentates in govenment.

I guess 0bama copied the idea from India
where there were only 2-and-fraction car manufacturers from 1950's to 1970's (down to 2 from 1977 to 1983) where much bailout/propping of these in lean times (the only reason the 2 were even profittable--the fraction wasn't even that--was due to their high POS-cost, which was much higher than in West).

When even that country has largely learned market economics for auto industry (the fact that one of the abovementioned earlier manufacturers still surviving through bailout being the exception), it is extremely strange that THIS nation should adopt India's largely-abandoned strategy.

GM and Chrysler should go the way of Premier Automobiles and Standard Motors!

do the country a favor
when you meet someone who proudly proclaims they voted for the messiah, thank them for hating america and then do something they would appreciate, expectortate in their face.

Or when you see a car with vote for the messiah bumper skickers, do to them what the lefties did to cars with bush stickers on them, let your keys do the talking

the messiah and the auto unions
again I ask the question. What is the messiah's game plan.

What is more important in the mind of the economic genius. Does he save the manufacturing business or does he save the union?

Like all dims the messiah puts the union first.

The soon to be asked question everywhere. Does this idiot from chicago have a clue about anything. Larry summers, part of the messiah's economic team says the messiah is listening to no one and that he thinks he has the answer to everything.

But we have seen what happens when he let pelousy and corrupt land deal craft and pass porkzilla

jking
I second your comments on letting capitalism's "creative destruction" take place.
Americans, and I might add, former GM workers, will be much better off in the long run to allow the company to be re-tooled into an effective and efficent enterprise.

A note about Japanese cars. After I had owned my first Toyota Celica for a few years I was amazed one day when I received a very comprehensive repair manual for it in the mail from Toyota. They had a letter from the company telling me that although they hoped I would use their dealers' facilities for service they understood that many of us liked to do our own work whenever possible. To help us do that effectively they wanted to help us out with the manual.

I thought that was very amazing and really customer-focused. From that time on I have always owned at least one Japanese car at a time to accompany the obigatory American one I thought I should have.

Liberals
I think liberals (not the politicians...everyday "meet-on-the-street" type liberals) are very kind hearted, but very very stupid.

If we don't bail out the auto industry (and the banks, and the credit card companies, and the housing market, and the universities...), then people might lose their job! And that's very sad, isn't it? (This is the extent of their kind hearts)

So, their solution: royally screw EVERYONE so that a select FEW won't suffer (This is the extent of their stupidity)

EVERY single American is going to get f***ed on this stimulus, bail-out mania...but hey, at least some people won't lose their job, right? So what if it comes at the expense of incomprehensible debt and inflation???

PV
I'm like you in the way I own my cars, I bought a '92 Honda Accord and drove it for 16 1/2 yrs with 240,000 miles on it. Never had a problem with it other routine maintenance. My personal preference has been Honda's and Toyota's because I like the way they drive.

Let GM go under and as someone else said let them be bought by someone else that can change the company into something more profitable. Isn't Obambi all about change, well it's time for the American auto industry to embrace change and become more competitive, not bailed out for their mistakes.

Ooops
Meant to say my 14 year old Camry had 244K. A little bit more than what I had said.

I remember back in the 1970s no one had any expectation of getting 100K from their car. Most people only held on to a car for a few years before trading for a new one.

I now hold my cars forever and run them into the ground.

this is substantially true
re:
"Auto manufactures have increased their prices 10 fold in twenty years."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Watch a rerun of "Let's Make a Deal" from the 70's... a loaded Chevy would sell for a few grand, versus $30k today.

Certain things have gone up far faster than the overall rate of inflation-- health care, college costs, postal services, education costs (but not results) per pupil, cost of government services... and, for a time, housing costs.

Unions were a factor in a number of those.

GM sold as many cars as Toyota
last year but where Toyota had a net profit of $17B, GM posted a loss of ~$30B. Obviously monster differences in unit cost between the two.

My first car was a 73 Pontiac Ventura hand-me-down from my Dad. I believe this car could easily have been the worst ever made. I bought a 75 Toyota Celica and thought I died and went to heaven (except when riding in the snow).

Had an 89 Camry that lasted 14 years and 144K.

Mod Mark, I use my cars now like you. Have two 10 year old cars with at least 140K on each. Always rent a car when traveling. Get to try out new cars and it helps you enjoy all the driving. Also serves as an insurance policy in case something goes wrong (breakdown, accident, etc) so all you need to do is get another rental car and you're on your way.

GM will never die even if it goes bankrupt. The assets will be bought up by someone who knows how to use them better and the company (maybe a different name) will be born from the ashes.

Marketing Failures in Auto Industry

I recall reading a book several years ago entitled -"Positioning a Battle for the Mind" (probably out of print today).

The author listed such things as the 'Kleenex' brand, which had such a strong position in the consumer mind, that consumers called facial tissue 'Kleenex'.

Once everyone could look at American cars and knew whether it was an Oldsmobile or Ford etc.

Now, a consumer needs a magnifying glass and a manual, to determine what a Oldsmobile is or isn't.

Marketeers lost their position in the consumer mind, by too many choices that became blurred in the consumer mind.

Any and everything to choose, didn't work - Honda and Toyota have proven that.

SIMPLY TOO COSTLY
Now that the easy free money (easy credit and credit cards) are all max out, the market can't find the buyers. Housing prices are falling and the stock market is in decline. The buyers simple are going to refuse to pay high prices for stuff. Auto manufactures have increased their prices 10 fold in twenty years. Now when installment loans have dried up, jobs gone, people walking away from too much debt, why does the auto people think they can survive. Presently all most everything is resetting the price point. Gm and the rest could have survived this, when they carried little debt themselves, but not this time..

B/R would cure major ills
re:
Do you really want to see America with no auto industry and give that business to Japan?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bankruptcy would likely cure the main ills of the big 3... Toyota and Honda are making good money by paying workers a lot less right here in America, yet people line up for their jobs.
you cannot pay a UAW worker with a H.S. degree $150k all-in a year and not pay the piper at some point. Many airlines have gone under due to unions causing pilots to get 3x what they were worth simply because of union blackmail... they kill the golden goose even when providing essential services and products.

As someone saliently noted below, GM and Toyota sold the same # of cars worldwide last year-- but one makes good $ even as the other hemorrhages.

B/R can set aside the crippling union largesse and pare management fat as well.

Many companies have emerged from B/R and gone on to do well with a different business model.

Gerry
The answer is yes, why in the heck should the American Tax payer foot the bill for BAD business decisions by the Auto Industry? Do we really owe a darn thing to the CEOs the Union Leaders and Union workers who have road the gravy train WAY tooooo long? Heck NO! They owe us, they have been bilking us for years, selling us over priced junk! Ive had my share of lemons over the years, and Ive never been so glad to have the internet were consumers actually can share their experiences, so we get to buy a little smarter! Bye Bye Bye,

Unions and Government
combined to destroy employment in the US steel industry. I worked for a railroad in a USX Steel Mill for 13 years, mostly as a management employee.

The company tried to get concessions from the unions to allow us to become more competitive with other mills that also made tubular products. Our unions refused and signed a solidarity pact with a sister USX plant in Cleveland that also made tubular products. They said that if the two plant's unions stuck together they could never be broke.

Well, one day we came to work only to find the Cleveland union had granted concessions and would now remain open while our plant was closed.

Finally, in a last ditch effort to save jobs the Monongahela Valley unions gave in to work rule changes governing how work was assigned.
In months, the cost per ton for a manhour of steel went from $27 to $9. A 300% improvement in productivity without any new technology.

Unfortunately, it was too little too late. A plant that had over 4200 employees in 1980 shut down in 1986 with only 120 of us left.

Chice Might be the Problem

GM cars had over 10,000 different choices that could be selected on their automobiles.

Toyota and Honda, the leaders in sales, have 15.


Unions
This administration WILL NOT let these ompanies go under. There are too many bought votes to lose here.

government and union employees
Someone just mentioned debt for govt. employee pensions, etc. Like the unionized (which many of them are), government workers get incredible benefits and retire very early.

Two in my immediate family checked out of the work force in their 40's after careers in the military and HUD ... then they had full free medical and amazingly high immediate pensions, AND they did not have to rely on S.S... THEIR retirement $ can be invested as they choose-- even as the bureaucrats resist privatizing S.S. for the rest of us.

Postal workers, teachers, and millions of retired military and bureaucrats have pensions and benefits the rest of us can only dream about, even as ILLEGAL aliens are invading and pervading ignorance and poverty, creating new welfare dependents in the making and pandemic social pathologies.

And some wonder why states like Mexifornia are going down?

They Just Dont Get It
GM makes some fine automobiles, the problem is there are only a few that are worth driving. Their trucks, large suvs, and the corvette are the only ones that they sell. These vehicles are excellent and would put them against any Toyota! The rest of the cars they make are just terrible. How come they chose to only build quality on a select few? The world may never know! Chrysler has made total junk all the way around for years, let them go bust!!!!

Wake Up America
Do you really want to see America with no auto industry and give that business to Japan? There is a lot of blame to go around here but those are real Americans, our brothers and sisters working in those plants. Bail the banker and the home owner..pass a $787 B. stimulus all with money we don't have. The loan requested by auto makers is a drop in the bucket compared to what is being handed out. WE need to remember this. GOD CAN MAKE A WAY WHEN THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY. WAKE UP AMERICA

The question of
Whether American made cars are as good as foreign made cars is irrelevant. If a company can't make a profit selling it's product no matter what products it sells, that company goes out of business. It is not the governments job or taxpayers to save a company if it can't compete with the market. Idiot dumocrats and some repubs brains can't seem to understand basic economics. Government needs to get the frick out of our lives and stay the hell out of the free market.

ModMark
Ah fellow Michigander.

I drove a 71 Chevy Nova early driving years. Three speed on the column inline six. Pooch. Looked good though and could get rubber in second gear on a wet pavement.:-) Yeah the hemi Charger wouldve been nice.

Also a 72 Blazer-327 smallblock out of a vette. No pooch!:-) Fun without the top on. Ate jeeps for lunch. Offroad fun, steep hills no problem at the peak with short wheelbase. Good in winter too except heater didnt work so good.

Now a minivan. Oh well.

What a Sad Day!!
GM Produced Quality cars up to the late 70's to early 80's before the Sky is falling Liberal Democratic Congress/Senate started pissing and Moaning about fuel mileage that had never been an issue with the American public. Oh how some forget that most people who bought small cars in the 70's and early 80's bought them because they were cheap and because thats all they could afford, its also funny that you see people complaining that American cars have bad gas mileage when if they stopped suffering from Rectalitis they would see that thats not true, Toyota, Honda, Nissan trucks get worse gas mileage than any GM or Ford trucks, mid sized GM and Ford cars are just as fuel efficient as any Foreign made Car so we must be back to the Liberal Democratic the Sky is falling Bull Sh*t just like the Economy collapsing during the Election, I wonder why. I had worked for many Years in Quality at Boeing and I will stand up for a American Company before any Foreign Company or its Country or people and its Time for a Revolution, If its not American than it should have a 100% Tariff Tax on it just like what is done to our products that get shipped to other Foreign Countries, No More Liberal Democratic Global Economy, its our Country and its People first over anybody else from here on out or we can kiss goodbye the America our Grand Parents enjoyed.

Economics
Supply and demand. America needs cars. We are a huge land (space wise) and we have no real public transportation system. Having just left Tokyo, I can say that I never needed a car. The U.S. is not the same. So, if a company will provide a good product at a fair price, they will thrive. If GM and Chrysler die, some smart people will make cars that will fill the need. But, if the Government makes the prices too high because of over-regulation and back pocket cronies (union vote getters), get ready to walk and ride bicycles... a long distance. Lastly, I'm sure that if the government requires that cars run on grass, recycled plastic, or water, the Japanese companies will do it. If the latent innovation and work ethic in America is allowed to act, without the government gelding committees' interference, we'll see good, competitive products.

RDK-#33
GM screwed up Saturn seven ways from sunday. I bought and drove one of the first Saturns, remember, the ones that were mostly plastic. It was built down in Spring Hill by team (non-union) who had been trained in Japan, in a (then) new facility designed with decent ergonomics. The styling was only fair, sort of a cross between a Studebaker and a Ford, but seating for 4 was adequate, 5 a squeeze. But it made many a trip from Ohio to Upper Ontario with never a burp and around 30MPG. It was the first car I ever owned where I knew when I left home exactly what it was going to cost. Saturn put out a "cafeteria list", base car, want auto transmission?, add $500. etc. And it made money and customers liked it and then GM corporate said "we can't allow this, it has to conform", and now it does. It looks like every other GM product, is put together by the same UAW help (never buy a Friday car, or a Monday car), and has become an overpriced drag. Saturn could be saved, probably will be by Honda or Toyota, or Hyundai.

How about we try this
We should fire all the union members and union bosses and see if GM survives. If it does than we know where the blame lies. If they don't than management is at fault.

MellorSJ2
I see you, and others, badmouthing American built automobiles -- and I don't understand it!

I owned five-six used cars: a Buick, Chevys, Fords and Mercurys and 6-10 new Chevys (Corvette, Camero and pickups), two Dodges (a camper and a stationwagon) a Ford pickup and a Mercury. I NEVER HAD A MITE OF TROUBLE WITH ANY OF 'EM! And that includes the badly used ones I bought when I was a poor, young sailor.

I bought one new foreign automobile -- a Toyota. It lasted three years to the month, then the door panel and dash board came loose and the dealer couldnt' keep the wheels aligned. The car had less than, I believe, sixty thousand miles on it -- no more than that and maybe less -- when I gave it away!

I had a very old, badly used SEAT in Spain just to run around the base. Not a bad little car.

Oh I should clarify
the 800 jobs was like 400 at the company and estimated increased jobs for those outside the plant.

Say NO to more bailouts & spending!
Congress just passed a 1 TRILLION dollar “stimulus” plan – and now they’ve got their hands out AGAIN!

Yes, believe it or not, the spending isn’t stopping.

Obama is now pitching a 75 BILLION dollar mortgage bailout plan.

And the guys at GM and Chrysler are back asking for another handout of almost 20 BILLION.

This is on top of a trillion dollar “stimulus” that created 32 NEW government programs.

And in the meantime, our national debt is already over TEN TRILLION dollars!

Tell Congress this madness has to stop!

Click below and send a personalized message to your members of Congress today!

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/cta/stop_spendi ng

chollybygolly
Most have forgotten about the Crosley automobiles.

I have thought of them in recent years in the context of why we keep inventing the wheel, i.e., studying the small car issue to death. The Crosley appears to be one answer to the need for small cars by some folks.

I never drove one or rode in one, but there were a bunch of 'em running around after WW II because there was a shortage of automobiles -- even used ones. A tall fellow was dating a girl who lived on the next farm and she was tall too. I don't recall 'em looking cramped when they came around the hill in that little car.

I have no idea of the MPG obtained by the Crosley, but I have seen the little devils zip up major hills in West Virginia and plow through pretty deep mud on rural roads. That is amazing considering that they had little, bitty wheels and probably low horsepower!

It seems to me that they must have been very light weight because the rear quarter panel looked like it was made of fiber board.

I'd like to have one to zip around town, rather than using my gas guzzing Z-71 pickup or my wife's rollerskate, i.e., a Corvette that I find cramped -- and I am tall and skinny.

GM had a moneymaker and couldn't
stand it. That was Saturn when it was set up as a stanalone. So long as GM Detroit kept their nose out of it the cars were good, reasonably priced and even a tad revolutionary. But Detroit couldn't handle it, so they forced it back into corporate. Now the Saturn is typical GM, old design, lousy fit and finish and overpriced. BUT..put the Saturn facility at Spring Hill up for sale (first get rid of the UAW and go back to the team concept), and see how quickly it gets snapped up by Honda or Toyota or Hyundai. But GM has to be in Chapter 11 first. When a cow is old you send it to the abatoir, when a horse is old it becomes dog food, why should GM and Chrysler be different if they cannot compete?

trash dump 50 years ago looked better

If you look in a parking lot today, have you ever seen such an ugly bunch of junk? A car trash dump 50 years ago looked better.

When you drive, try to see a car just exactly like the one you are driving. In a Parking lot (except for a dealer or rental lot) and see if you can find two car the same.

When you ride the subway, how many different cars do you see? When you ride the train, does each car look completely different?

I don’t want the Govt. telling GM how many four-door red Chevy they can build this year, but do you really care if you car looks just like another?

Oh I forgot, today they don’t look like each other, or like anything else you might like to see.

A few years ago I went on a GM dealer’s lot looking for a small car. I pointed out a car down the line, that looked OK (not great), but the lot-man said, No that’s a Toyota. Well, it turns out it was really an Olds so ugly GM would not put the name on it, except in small letters below the radio.

For example I have never met even one car owner who wanted a Tachometer in his car. Few know what it is, and no one, absolutely no one that I have asked, wants one. But the auto makers have spent billions of dollars putting them in a hundred million cars.

The car horn blows when you lock your car, because some programmer said, “This looks like fun.” I have asked many, many, people, and have yet to meet anyone who wants that.

When I was working with computers used to put the men on the moon, I had to fight off both programmers and engineers. I didn’t care how much fun it would be to do it their way, this is how it had to be.

The main problem is that the supervisor of both engineers and programmers are promoted engineers and programmers, The company not only lost a good engineer or programmer, they gained a lousy boss.

Government Debt.
A lot of the companies/people that are in trouble were over extended and the economy tanking exposed it.

But the point I would like to make is the Federal, State, and local governments pension and heath care cost come up to over a Trillion dollars in debt.

The Government is not going to go into bankruptcy to reorganize that debt.

Any remaining warm bodied companies left are going to get jumped on and collapse under the regulations and tax burdens to support this debt.

I’m not even going to mention the shake down process the politicians use to get campaign contributions from the remaining companies seeking favors or needing shelter from regulations and taxes.

The pie is shrinking and the smart people will leave this country or face unworkable economic realities.

S.S. medical cost from the aging baby boomers no longer paying taxes alone is going to cripple the economy.

Happy to see Detroit go…
down the toilet. The unholy alliance between Communist thug infested UAW and weak cowardly management have sealed their doom. Management and the knuckle dragging assembly line workers should all eat out of garbage cans. We now drive all super reliable Toyotas.


Americans killed the goose that laid the
golden egg. I have an aunt and uncle who live in a small rust belt town in PA. About 18 months ago a company came there wanting to build a manufacturing plant (this area has not had many good jobs since the 1970's -- yes 30 years). Anyway they were going to employ approximately 800 people, but the town turned them down. Why?

Because the company had no plans to offer union benefits and wages (I guess the company actually wanted to make money -- weird huh?).

TIME TO SAY GOOD BYE TO UAW

.....The Tandem of Trade Unions and Democrat Politicians are Industry and job killers ...

.....Check out the RUST BELT which 50 years ago was booming with factories and jobs ...where have all the jobs and factories gone? ...

.....What did the heavy industry areas have in common with their neighbors ...yep! ...trade unions and Democrats ...

.....There is a pattern here that began with FDR and the Wagner ACT ...and we see the end results in Detroit where the Democrats are using taxpayer money to save the unions that have been their partner in crime, since FDR, in destroying the American Auto Industry .....COLOSSUS

Can someone please
tell me? Are you committed to saying in a Union if the same is working against you? Can you withdraw from a union without having someone with a bat break your legs? do you get intimidated so you stay in?
I am glad to see that Ford may still be around, it's the only one of the three who came together with Mazda to create a great fuel efficient vehicle which gives me approx 35 miles per gallon on the highway, granted is a four cylindrer manual transmission, but it's a strong engine...it's name is Escape.

Just a footnote
No exeption! Men who drive Prius', need to go to their nearest university clinic, and sign up for gender re-assignment.

You missed
The most important point. Government is a one third contributor, to the problem. Cafe' standards, regulation. We are Americans. We love trucks, and muscle cars. It's true, foreign competitors, were able too undercut our prices, visa vie lower labor costs. Higher fuel efficiency. I would hedge to guess, that the higher fuel efficiency, was the by-product of building smaller lighter cars. If the goverment gets it's way, we will all be driving two seat bathtubs that have a top speed of 45mph, and need to be re-charged every hundred miles. The government, in effect has crippled the industry by mandating fuel efficiency standards and, resticting our ability to harvest our own natural resources. They just push agendas that work towards raising fuel prices, essentially hastening the auto makers demise.

Mod Mark
Interesting article mention. I have heard of this concept talked about, but havn't actually heard about anyone putting money into it yet.

Could be the future, who knows?

As a side note, I currently have a GM product 11 years old and 220,000 miles. I have always owned GM and have had good luck with them. My previous vehicle had 180,000 on it when I was forced into something more of a bus type situation. Kids and all. So no, I don't consider their products inferior to foreign or do I wish their company to fail. With their bailout funding though, Ford is looking better to me all the time.


Buick a big seller in China? Ive heard this before. Probably just a fad. :-)

GM
...and I bought a Saab, what an idiot I am. WAS a good company when Sweden ran it...pains me to say GM bought the company only two years ago and already ran it into the ground.

I think Americas greatness might be in serious jepordy.

The New York Times is dying

The New York Times is dying a natural death.

One can purchase a share of stock in the NYT, cheaper than one can buy a copy of the paper.

The copy of the NYT at least can be used for lining bird cages and wrapping fish.

RW and Deacon
Not to obsess on this topic but through facebook I have reconnected with almost everyone I went to grade school with as well as most of my HS class and I'd guess about 75% have 3 or more children. I myself was surprised, but I can guarantee you they are all driving at the very least a minivan if not a large SUV.

savings the auto industry
But what is the bailout saving:

Is it union jobs, or the right of union workers to retire with benefits at age 48, or an honest attempt to keep gm and chrysler making cars.

It seems we are not really sure what the govt is trying to do at this point in time.

But while other businesses have revived after bankruptcy, it still hasn't been explained why the big 3 can't do the same.

But the fact that union costs add some $2000 to the cost of every vehicle produced by the big 3 puts them at a competitive disadvantage.

But it seems all that concerns the dim and the chimp in charge is saving the union and the millions the unions give to the dims

RW and Deacon
Do you not have younger children? I can tell you why we need the bigger vehicles. Children cannot ride in the front seats. And in most states children are required to be in a car seat or booster til they are almost in jr. high. Then you have the situation of driving say 4 or 5 kids to a soccer game along with a couple of kids who still require car seats. And then there is fitting your strollers and other gear while still having room for the groceries you went to buy.

There are also still quite a few families out there with 3, 4, or more children the average number of children per family includes people with no children. A phenomenon in this country is that although the average may be low a lot of the households with children have more than one or two because so many people have no childrren in their homes.

Mod Mark
I did specify "some" Toyotas. Point being that some of Toyotas products do have more US parts in them than some GM products. Not all but some. Point well taken though.

Yes the parts supply line is a concern. I know of a couple companies in my area that either A....refuses to do business with them (has for years, due to their payment/red tape policies) or B...is currently increasing marketshare in other areas while decreasing parts to automakers...restructuring if you will. They see it coming so are adjusting.

There shouldn't be political pressure, that's the problem. The pressure should be for these companies to remain competitive with whoever is standing when the dust settles. Toyota will buy from a US company if they are competitive, as it should be. Not because a politician takes a Toyota big whig out to a strip club and sends him Cuban cigars or scratches their back with bogus tax shams or whatever.

GM simply can't run it's company as if it has 50% marketshare.

CapeConservative & ADLoggy
CapeConservative:

And when the government has total control of the auto industry, the kind of cars we'll be getting that the Democrats' government bureaucrats will dictate the production of has already been seen in this world. Can you say Trabant? I knew you could.

ADLoggy:

I totally agree with you that the Democrats will not allow GM and/or Chrysler to go down the drain because they want that UAW union money too much. The Democratic Party has even more of a stake in the survival of the Big 3 American automakers than their own shareholders!

Barack Obama Doctrine of Fear

Barack Obama used the word 'CRISIS' 25 times in his speech about signing the 'Obama Stimulus Fiasco'.

Barack Obama has decided to give the money to help those who can't pay their mortgages, to FANNIE and FREDDIE (who are the cause of the crisis), with oversight by Cris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Barack Obama believes the 'Politics of Fear', will help the American Citizens to overcome any fear they have about the economy.

Barack Obama believes that 'Marxism is the Opiate of the Asses'.


Mr. Sowell
hits the nail on the head again. Would anyone buy a Chrysler or a GM car right now? I mean if you did and they go out of buisness where would you get the parts and service? Don't these idiots know that by threatening to go broke in order to beg for government money they have already sealed their doom?

If you can find it, search for
a YouTube on Ford's Brazilian production plant. The largest and most productive, it's almost completely robotic. I received it via email recently but no longer have it. Quite interesting! You know the unions would never allow that here.

Great column, Cal!
I agree wholeheartedly...let them 'sink or swim' on their own! It is the beginning of the end - a total Hugo Chavezization of America - the government is going to own the banks, the auto industry, the newspapers, the television networks. By the government, I mean the misues of OUR TAX DOLLARS along with TOTALLY INEPT CONGRESS MEMBERS and PRESIDENT making all the WRONG management decisions!!!

America is DOOMED!

The Blame Lies With Unions AND Mgt
American cars are overpriced and poorly made, thanks to the unions. Management is at fault for capitulating to ridiculous union demands over the years.

I make it a point to never "buy union" and I would certainly never buy a GM or Chrysler. I want quality. Union workers are incapable of producing quality because they work for the union, not the company.

RJBjr
Some Toyotas have more US made parts in them then any domestic. The parts suppliers will make parts for any car company. Many deal with both foreign and domestic car companies so it does stand to reason that domestics can purchase products as effeciently as foreigns.

You are right, the system is broke. Unions/Management/Government are all problems for US automakers.

One main problem is their inability to adjust their company to reflect their marketshare. They are running a company like they have 50% marketshare, but are only getting 20% of the market. If they can't adjust, they will fail.

Where the rubber meets the road
I bought my 55 Chevy new. It had a stick shift and overdrive. Great car, very fast. I used it covering the the sales territory in Maine working for IBM. Sad to see GM and Chrysler go. But the labor unions created a "cost/pricing umbrella" where foreign competition could undermine both companies. And that sad lesson is being repeated in all labor sensitive companies today -- including government where retirement policies are inflating the cost of government to the point where it creates a great tax burden. Wake up USA, here is where "the rubber meets the road."

Sadness
Growing up in Detroit and remebering driving muscle cars down Woodward Avenue epitomizes what Detroit once was: a proud hard working blue collar town. Due to corrupt and greedy politicians, the city is a shell of it's former self. I left in 1981. I returned for a visit last month and had the privilige to tour the Chrysler Headquarters. What a magnificent layout. It had more indoor square footage than any building in the country except the Pentagon. It's hard to believe that building could soon be empty. But Cal is right. We need to let them make it or not on their own. Bailouts will only prolong the agony.

Deacon
"Fast forward to the 2000s. Families are smaller so size does matter now"

You raise a good point. Carmakers (not only US ones) seem determined to sell their cars based on points I don't want, don't need, and can't use. "SUV/crossovers" with seating for 7 -- what is that, are we all becoming bus drivers now? "Highest horsepower rating in its class" - so? "Built in IPod/bluetooth capability" - great, more buttons to push, if I actually wanted to. And why does every TV car ad today show the vehicles being in driven in ways that require a tiny "Don't actually drive like this" disclaimer at the bottom?
If I could find a 15-year old Geo Metro (50 mpg highway) with all-wheel drive, I'd snap it up.


Bailout money, Stimulus Money
it should be labeled the "putting ourselves up for collateral" package.

Every time they print money, they back it up with us. Our taxes. Our labor. Our property. We mortgage ourselves everytime we allow them to do this.

Guess what? Those that do no labor and own no property also pay no taxes. So it becomes no skin off the non-producer's back if Uncle Sammy just keeps printing, stimulating and bailing.


Rewarding Failure
The old axiom of "what you reward you get more of, what you tax you get less of" applies. Why are we rewarding failure? Why are we rewarding companies that are, for lack of a better term, stupid? Furthermore, we are giving politicians more and more control over everything by slowly nationalizing everything. Nazi party in the 1930s ring a bell? We have become a weak and corrupt people in America, and a reckoning is due. You think it is bad now, just wait. The avalanche has only begun.

All who enjoyed the 'Obama Logic'

I tried to make a deal with the Liberals - I said I wouldn't tell the truth about Obama, if they wouldn't lie for Obama.

I had NO takers it seems Liberals cannot post without lying.

"Conservatives post at Town Hall because they have something to say, Liberals post at Town Hall because they have to say something."
Retired Geek

What about the Parts Supply?
We learned in the auto hearings that 75% of the cost of cars is in the Parts Manufacturing, not in the Assembly Plants.

But, I don't hear anything being done to cut these costs.

Because of the "systems" used in parts manufacturing plants, the Union is able to control the process to maximize member income. Management is at the mercy of the UAW. The "system" forces the worker to be at odds with the best interest of the company. But, the "system" is designed by Management. The auto companies have been "hoist by their own petards".

It's the "system" that needs to change. The right change can benefit the worker and the company and cars made in America, by Americans can sell for much less than the competition. Current published proposals do not address the main issue and at best will produce a barely competitive US auto industry. Very sad, when there are better answers.

King Rat
Can't forget your 1:56 am post either.

"Hay berry, iz at yu? R U posting frum yer 'blue-berry'?"

Had to take a short breather after reading this post. Hilarious. Much needed laugh today.No worries though, I won't blab.

Sorry Stan and Oracle 1, can't let the cat escape. Rats and Cats don't mix. Sworn allegiances and all. Not even a hint.


The worst part
The worst part is the feds have wanted Americans to drive microcars. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler decided to get around federal fuel economy standards of the 1970's with trucks, vans, and SUV's, the liberals were angry. Once Pelosi took over, she wanted to kill American automakers for putting the emphasis strictly on the money-making trucks. They want everyone in 2-seat microcars that appease their green world.

The green earth society is killing our automakers, and saying that only with government money will they build what the feds want is saying the feds are stupid.

my two cents
This is a good column. It is kind of sad to see these companies go, but it is looking as if it must happen. Let them fall and then what rises from the ashes will be what rises from the ashes. The raison-d'etre of these giants has passed and so their time has passed.


FYI - I have not bought a new vehicle since I bought a 1979 GMC diesel pickup that was the worst lemon of all time, at least to me. I presently drive a 2001 Buick Century with 163,000 miles on it that runs fine - I keep it in good order and a few summers ago when I drove to Indiana it got 41+ mpg.

My next vehicle will probably be a mini-van of some sort. If you buy a gas-guzzler you have to live with the consequences.

The government was not created to bail people out for poor decisions. At least OUR government wasn't.

Retired Geek
I must be a conservative because your post on Obama's brilliance has ne baffled. Actually, I can't stop laughing. You are brilliant.

Nick
Zapdoodat is from the state that has given us of late Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Bawny Franks.

What a downhill slide from John Quincy Adams to the idiots they elect today.

Enough said.

Barn Rat, Sewer Rat, Industrial Rat
Viking Rat....I can't keep up.

Good post guy 12:55 am. All spot on. Even "not blaming the workers" in a general sense. Although they lose some credit with their "drag our feet" mentality at times.

I have dealt with construction trades (both union and non union) and for the most part, non union guys get higher production rates. When a greenhorn 20somthing gets his first union job, the first thing the older guys teach him is to SLOW DOWN. Many reasons for this...quota maximums being the main culprit. Their hands are tied though so I shouldn't blame them too much.

You Left out the Crosley
Actually few people actually received the cars that Oprah, bless her Christian heart, gave them. The taxes on such a gift are so high that most people who win or receive them as gifts can't afford to hang on to them.

If she had given them Crosleys, true fuel conserving minicars that in 1940 sold for $350, her gift might have been better received.

this sums it up:
'government cannot prop up companies that no longer make products people want to buy in large enough numbers to make them profitable.'

Cal
Good article but the Dems will never let GM die. They have a vested interest in the Unions who contribute heavily to them. This would take a huge chunk of pie from their pockets. If the unions can afford millions in lobbying and contributions then they are over-paid.

Also, they can't let GM die because it would shed further light on the idiotic government intrusion Ratas y Ratones so adroitly alluded to. There is no way they can admit they had a hand in destroying an American Industry.

P.S. I really think Zapdoodat is Barney Franks trying to act like a man. No one can really be that obtuse. Alas, he is from the state that continuously gives us the swimmer and Bawny. I wonder if MA realizes how many people laugh at them for their politicians?

How did GM screw up Saturn?
Saturn seemed like a good idea. The idea was to build smaller vehicles and build them in a non-Detroit setting. Saturns seemed to turn out as unattractive and maybe even not well engineered. I saw a Saturn SUV in the mall; it was medium sized and had a price tag of $36,000. I think that if GM sold the Saturn division to a well run vehicle company, the Saturn could be a profitable enterprise.

Lily
I agree with everyone else. UR an I.

In other news, GM sold 15 million cars worldwide last year. So did Toyota. Toyota made $15 billion, GM lost 25 billion. Me thinks the difference wasn't a few million in bonuses. It had to be the union costs associated with Detroit.

Eighty bucks per hour to mow the lawn. Fifty dollars (one hour minimum) to change a lightbulb. Don't even think about changing that bulb yourself or you'll be brought up on charges.

The unions destroyed GM and any business plan that includes them is simply delaying the inevitable.

Lessons not learned
American Car makers had a wake up call back in the 1970's Carter era, they never to the challenge serious, the Government never took the challenge serious. Foreign car makers have always taken the Challenge seriously and that is why Ford, GM and the others are on the edge of extinction. Go to a Foreign country that is dependent on Foreign Oil: Japan, Germany, South Korea and their Auto industry is focused like a laser on on Fuel economy. Detroit had its chance and blew it.

Send them a note....not a "not".
Is it Monday morning already?

GM and BIG GOVERNMENT...
have worked together to bring us this huge failure. GM did build cars that people needed. Big cars. As a family man it was not possible to fit my family and the usual friends into a compact let alone a sub-compact car. So a van was a good choice. And it did give reasonable mileage.

Fast forward to the 2000s. Families are smaller so size does matter now. Throw $4+ per gallon for gas into the mix and suddenly large cars are hard to sell. The government could have helped by supporting the use of energy sources on American soil. This would have stabilized gas prices. The government could have kept us on gold standard which would have stabilized our money thus keeping down the demands for ever and higher wages and benefits. The government could have used restraint in their spending which would have made credit more available to buy consumer goods at a reasonable rate thus many current financial problems would be minor. The government could have been less invasive in setting energy and environmental policy for business which would have allowed American businesses to compete without retreat.

Sadly, we must recognize that the government is representing the interests of We the People. It is We the People who have much to blame for all of our and GM's current problems. Maybe Obama will teach We the People the final lesson on what is meant by being a good citizen. Hopefully We the People will pass the test before Obama changes our country's name to Amerika.

I have mixed
emotions. It will be sad to see GM go -- given what it once was and represented.

I bought American for a long time, but finally decided if I was paying the current prices for new cars I wanted one that would last we over 100,000 miles.

I will say that my household plans to buy a large SUV and full-size truck before the government manages to remove them from the market or tax them into oblivion. And the U.S. imo has always made the best trucks.

Retired Geek
Good post!. Couldn't decide which was better, #6 or #9. Call it a draw.

Hey, Zapdoodat
If Republicans running deficits is what led to this, then how is it that running deficits five times the size of theirs is the cure?

Government spending no doubt destroyed the free market economy, but it wasn't Bush's fault. BAnks were forced to make bad loans by the government (see Comm. Reinvestment ACt). They got used to it. They made bad loans to everyone, including GM. Then they folded, on queue, after Schumer brought down Indymac and Obama's biggest supporters at Fannie Mae handed him the election.

Conclusion: Bush's spending did not cause this problem. And if it did, what SLobama is doing ain't going to help it.

Lilly
your post may truly be one of the stupidest ever seen on TH. People speak English worldwide because it is the language of commerce.

It is also the national language of India -- yes India -- because they have so many different ethnic and regional languages. Nigeria uses English for the same reason.


Buy a Ford
and send them a not telling them your decicions to buy a Ford was because they DIDNT take the recent bailout cash.

Hey Retired Geek
Congratulations...that is one of the best and most accurate comments I have read in quite awhile.

It is not only accurate but funny as well.

The Obama Brilliance

WARNING Liberals are the only ones who can follow the Barack Obama logic.

Obama's Logic:
--------------
1) Bankrupt the coal industry. Cutting out 50% of electrical production in the US.

2) Stop importing steel, only use American steel.

3) Coal is the only way to produce heat to make steel.

4) Make and buy only American cars out of steel, this will save the US auto industry.

5) Don't drive those cars, because that will minimize the environmental gains of bankrupting coal.

6) Build highways and bridges to drive the cars on that we shouldn't drive to save the planet.

7) Don't build nuclear power plants or drill for oil, so America can reduce its dependence on foreign oil imports.

8) Give money to mis-managed business's and then act indignant and betrayed, when those bad money managers mis-manage the money you gave them.

9) Give money to those who cannot manage their own budgets and buy things they cannot afford, so they can catch up with everyone else.

The Obama financial 'Doctrine' - if you have spent to much money on credit and cannot pay your bills, spend much, much more on credit to decrease your debt.

Invest in failure to secure success.

Failing 'Upward' is the Obama plan for success.

Shopped for a car lately?
My wife had new car fever in Dec so we did some poking around dealerships.

Ford was almost giving them away, but the GM dealers were pretty pricey.

The quality of the US makers was as good, we thought, of any of the others. NONE are made totally in the US - I know because I've trucked millions of car parts up from Mexico, some which are imported first from China or some other place in the world.

Didn't buy anything though, because the older vehicles we have are 1) Paid for 2) Insurance cost much less, and 3) Get better mileage than ALL the new models, thanks to gubmint regulation and mandates.

My big Dodge Ram diesel gets 17-20 mpg, '92 Fleetwood 18-26 mpg, and '05 Corolla 30-36.

Who needs a new car payment anyway? We'll be paying any extra we have to "stimulate" those whom Obama declares "in need," i.e. unions, teachers, globull warming nuts, gubmint employees, abortion mills, marsh mice, and high speed choo choos.

agree with Stan...
Ratas sometimes gets too obtuse for me, though s/he is capable of good points... both unions and management are culpable for Detroit's demise... but unions are the greater, more pernicious evil.

Blaming Who?
One year ago - before the liberal caused crises: assuming that he price is the same, would you purchase a Toyota or Honda, versus a GM car -- and why? Sorry, I'll answer that. It would not be the GM car. It is inferior to the other two. Who did this? Not CAFE or unions. The GM engineers and GM administration built the inferior autos. In 1973 while routinely in gasoline lines I quietly cursed my US made elephant of a car. Lesson learned. Many Americans would pay a little extra for an all-US made auto, i.e., not made with parts imported from the countries to which we exported jobs, courtesy of the politicians and others, such as those who love globalism, open borders and free trade.

RATAS
WHAT ON EARTH DID YOU SAY?

Time to say Goodbye
My only objection to this article is his phrase "government pay." It is not the "government" that is paying. It is the government requiring to citizens to pay for cars that they won't buy. Bill D.

Time for GM to leave?
I dare say,they used to make a decent car,but I think that maybe KIA,Toyota,Nissan,should leave first! Because of (ENVIROMENTAL) regulations and all the stupid fuel standards,air regulations,we have litterally thrown millions out of work(thanks to our spineless congressman)Barney, Pelosi and their likes!
Just as all other industries have left because of the Liberals that by their own stupidy have gone along with the EPA whacko's
and have run every good paying job out of town.
We now find ourselves with McDonalds,Burger King, Wendy's and Chinese products from Walmart to drive this once great nation.Where at one time A man could make a decent living,but that's long gone. ENVIROMENTALISM IS THE NEW WAVE OF COMMUNISM!

You People Are Just Mean
President Obama has made it clear that Americans should live with their hand in their neighbor's pocket. I would ask all those with their hand in my pocket to at least do a little rubbing while you are in there so I will get something out of this process.

Yeah, that's it, a little to the left. Ohhhhhh.

it will require bankruptcy...
... or similar structured settlement.

There is no question that the big 3 have been mismanaged-- fat, dumb, and happy for too long.

But at the end of the day, buyers are not gonna' pay $1,600 more per car just for retired worker bennies that add no value to the car. Here is the telling part of the column:

"... guaranteed pensions and health care that ended up crippling GM, even after the company successfully negotiated with UAW members to decrease retirement benefits, which, honestly, is a little like quitting smoking after being diagnosed with lung cancer."

UAW members make TWICE--TWO TIMES-- what they make to assemble Toyotas and Hondas right here in America. The marketplace simply cannot pay H.S. grads $150k all-in to do a manual labor job. At some point, you have to pay the piper and file B/R to kill the cancer-- the union.

Lilly
I saw you post some silly nonsense about Switzerland, Chicago and escalators on another board. I see you are back comparing apples and oranges in an illogical way. You need to quit pushing the communism and socialism some us have seen it in action and don't candy coat it for American consumption.

Speaking as a person who speaks German and attended a few days of school in Germany I can answer that the reason everyone speaks English is because otherwise they have to master every European language and maybe more.

English is the Language of the World. My wife is Russian, a travel agent and she speaks ENGLISH. Do you know why?

YOU CAN TALK TO ANYONE AROUND THE WORLD THAT WAY BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS AN ENGLISH SPEAKER AROUND GOOD LUCK CALLING THAILAND AND SPEAKING RUSSIAN!!!!!

NO IDIOT IN EUROPE WOULD SKIP LEARNING ENGLISH OR HE CAN"T TRAVEL, DEAL WITH FOREIGNERS OR DO BUSINESS!!!

Caps off.

General Motors
Alowing failing companies to die is market capitalism at its purest.

However, GM's problems are largely the result of government intervention, and the union/Democrat nexus, with which foreign competitors do not have to contend.

GM has had to contend with massive government interference in auto design and marketing, which imports often ignored. The fines for non-compliance were amortized in car prices; but, such was not feasible for GM, which adhered to the CAFE stadards. Unfortunately, such standards did not allow GM to produce to its strength. Thus, it produced many cars that were merely intended to satisfy federal mandates, rather than maximize profits.

But, it is absurd to say that the company which has produced more cars than any other for the last 80 years produces "cars that nobody wants."

lilly
u r stupid

To Free Enterprise Fred
Re "How come I can travel [to other countries] and be served in English?": Um, er, maybe because those countries do a better job of teaching foreign languages than we do? Provide free universal mandated education, with no silly nonsense about homeschooling or unschooling, but instead have kids in school LEARNING from about age three through university? Are not paranoid about having their government serve the needs of its citizens? Do not scream "Communism!" every time their federal government speaks? Just a thought.

Mr. Thomas
While your proposal makes good sense and history shows this to be true, it does not line up with the left’s desire to nationalize all industry and force through their plan for our economy.

a challenge...
While I have nothing to offer as evidence, I propose that GM has plenty of cash… they’re simply using the current downturn and the subsequent generosity of Obama and friends to slice and dice their labor costs! The challenge laid is to prove me wrong.

FreeEnterpriseFred
"Mr. President, just what part of this is a failure to you?"

The failure was, of the Republicans, to live up to any of their core values, like small government or free markets.

It was six years of Republican 'cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors' attitude that led to this debt bubble implosion.

It was Republicans (2001-2007) who spent more than the Democrats. They increased pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, NOT PAID FOR.

They have engaged in a six year social engineering project in the Middle East that costs $120 billion a year and may well last another 100 years, NOT PAID FOR.

They have added another layer of entitlement spending that costs $50 billion a year called Medicare Prescription, NOT PAID FOR.

Mandated $4 billion a year in ethanol subsidies, as well as drastically increased cotton, sugar, soybean, corn, wheat handouts, NOT PAID FOR.

Doubled the size of the Department of Education, NOT PAID FOR.





mellon head...


Dang. I just expulsed a flatus, and topped mellon head's IQ by a hundred points.

Hay berry, iz at yu? R U posting frum yer 'blue-berry'?

We cannot use the French Brand 'term' for their mouthwash and cologne anymore. Someone must have looked up the word. Darn. That was so much fun. Clue... it started with Smegm... help, mama, he talk dirty again.

Ah, well, we will find others.

This is such fun. It takes them weeks to catch on, and then, only when someone blabs.


Interventionism
This is the single greatest enemy of prosperous wealth. I am both saddened and enraged when our president goes on national television and lies in the face of his public, denouncing the "failed policies" that got us here. Where is here, Mr. President? The fastest nation ever to ascend to world power? The benchmark by which all economic success is measured worldwide, whether the French "like" us or not? The most free, equal-opportunity, wealth-laden extravaganza of goods, services, and culture the world has ever known? If this is failure, and if by this and by "here" you mean Capitalism, Mr. President, then I would like to keep failing until the last citizen of this fantastic Republic stands up and cheers for the failed policy most responsible for this "catastrophe" that you have averted: Freedom.

If Freedom is so terrible, and if Capitalism doesn't work, and if the average American is incapable of making his or her own daily decisions without the help of Big Brother, then tell me, why is Sweden not the center of the world's economy? How come I can travel to Costa Rica, Rome, and Tokyo, and be served in English? You see, even poor nations know where this world's wealth comes from. Americans spend money in nations so far flung that the citizens of those countries wouldn't otherwise know that the rest of the world existed. We bail out countries at war with despots. We support "successful" economies like the one in France, when their currency goes south. And we hold only ourselves accountable when we are late paying a bill.

Mr. President, just what part of this is a failure to you?

This is only the beginning
Propping up dying car companies is only a start. Notice today's headline: "Obama throws $75 billion lifeline to homeowners." Obama and his evil Democratic ilk are stealing our future and that of our children and grandchildren, by confiscating our tax money for generations to come and "throwing lifelines" to all and sundry with it. No one can be allowed to fail anymore--everyone will be "rescued" by the Benevolent Leader. We taxpayers will now pay off the mortgages of people who should never have been given mortgages to begin with (and wouldn't have been, if the Dems hadn't forced the banks to).

Government will now buy up the banks, the factories, and (in its infinite wisdom) take over health care and ration it out to us (and the millions of illegal aliens that it prefers over U.S. citizens). After the private sector is gobbled up by Obama's government, and then rationed back to us by bureaucrats, we will all "share the misery equally," as Churchill described socialism. Because misery and lots of it is what we are going to have, make no mistake about it.

Where government controls everything (see "Soviet Union"), people always suffer. Government already tells us what kind of light bulbs and toilets we're allowed. Next they'll design our cars, set our thermostats, limit our number of children (see China), and in short micromanage every aspect of our lives.

Now, all you who voted for this socialist scum, how do you feel as you watch him and his minions in congress take your country apart before your very eyes, using your own money to do it with? You're getting just what you deserve.

Cal Thomas...

Great column Cal.

I would like to add, since you skipped it, the major causes of this dilemma.

1. Government interference in the form of dictating designs ( CAFE standards ),
35 % corporate tax, 100 other taxes, social security co-pay, ridiculous property taxes, and OSHA. The last OSHA is the only one that benefitted anyone!

2. Gross mismanagement, poor business decisions, and paying thousands of executives, ridiculous salaries and bonuses, no matter how poor their performance. These stories are legion.

3. Greedy Union officials, who always skimmed the top off the Union dues, pocketing half and buying politicians with the rest. They never helped the people out of work, to the extent that their Union dues would require.

I know a few dozen rank and file Union members who needed the Union's help, but because they were not connected, didn't get any help.

I also know thieves who stole from the company, and from other workers, who lost their jobs, got rehired, with back pay, and later became politicians in this small midwest town.

I could name them, but I won't. I want to continue living.

~~~

The workers and the lowest tier of salary jobs always had to use the lower chamber of the two story outhouse.

Yes, I worked for several years in both the above categories.

Upper chamber reserved for Union Officials and Upper Management.

~~~

DO NOT BLAME THE WORKERS ! For the most part, they are honest, capable people, who often have better educations than their bosses, and earn their pay.

Their reward? They get to use the lower chamber of the two story outhouse.


The Industrial Rat.

MEDICAL BENEFITS FOR UNIONIZED PETS
As someone who has supported GM for all my life, I am embarrassed to admit that it was only this election that caused me to realize that buying a car from them is just sending money to the democratic party via the labor unions. Interestingly enough, I don't know any liberals who own an American made car. They're letting us do the heavy lifting for the unions, who had the gall during one of their contract negotiations to ask for medical and vacation benefits FOR THEIR PETS.

Didn't we work this out in the 70's?
They've made crap cars for decades. Huge, ugly, badly designed, gas guzzling, small inside (despite weighing tons), turn on a small island, and generally much worse than a Honda or BMW, say.

They should have gone out of business in 1980.
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