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Tuesday, February 17, 2009
Cal  Thomas :: Townhall.com Columnist
How About A Stimulus For Life?
by Cal Thomas
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Thanks to former Lieutenant Governor of New York Betsy McCaughey and her recent essay on Bloomberg.com entitled "Ruin Your Health with the Obama Stimulus Plan," we know of another problem with the just-passed stimulus bill, one that may threaten the lives of many Americans.

McCaughey discovered buried in the bill a new bureaucracy called the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology. Among other things, it means that a Washington official will "monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective." Some of that occurs now, but this would take it to a whole new level.

The idea comes straight from former HHS nominee Tom Daschle's 2008 book "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis" in which he says that doctors are going to have to give up their autonomy and "learn to operate less like solo practitioners." Inevitably, this means the government will decide who gets life-saving treatment and who doesn't. It is survival of the fittest in practice. Thank you, and belated happy birthday, Charles Darwin.

In 1979, six years after Roe v. Wade, philosopher and theologian Dr. Francis Schaeffer and the about-to-be surgeon general of the United States, Dr. C. Everett Koop, wrote a book, "Whatever Happened to the Human Race?" In chapter three, "Death by Someone's Choice," the authors write, "Will a society which has assumed the right to kill infants in the womb -- because they are unwanted, imperfect, or merely inconvenient -- have difficulty in assuming the right to kill other human beings, especially older adults who are judged unwanted, deemed imperfect physically or mentally, or considered a possible social nuisance?"

No one should be surprised at the coming embrace of euthanasia. After the Supreme Court deprived the unborn of their right to live by declaring them nonpersons, it was only a matter of time before other categories of human life deemed to be inconvenient or unwanted would also face extermination in order to benefit the government, the healthy and the wealthy, who prefer not to be disturbed in their pursuit of pleasure, personal peace and affluence.

Schaeffer and Koop predicted "the next candidates for arbitrary reclassification as nonpersons are the elderly." That 30-year-old prophecy, deemed hyperbole and alarmist by many at the time, now seems to be coming true. In 1993, Hillary Clinton, as chair of the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, pushed the bureaucratic-heavy Clinton Health Care Plan, quickly labeled "HillaryCare," which was long on government oversight, short on patient choice. A Democratic Congress defeated it a year later. Now we have the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology and a Democratic Congress and President Barack Obama appear ready to resume their assault on all but the fit and those who do not burden government with their need for treatment. "Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective," writes McCaughey. "The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost-effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council."

I called Koop, who is now 92. He reminded me that in 1988 he had an ailment that left him a quadriplegic. Surgery restored his limbs, but "if I'd lived in England, I would have been nine years too old to have the surgery that saved my life and gave me another 21 years." Koop fears the United States is about to embrace English socialized medicine with government authorities deciding who lives and who dies. He says the idea of government second-guessing doctors sickens him.

Great inhumanities are usually ushered in at the extremes in order to make the public more accepting. Abortion on demand followed the 1973 Roe v. Wade case where Norma McCorvey, Jane Roe, "alleged" she had been raped, resulting in pregnancy. Technology allows people to abort a "defective" baby in the womb, "selectively reduce" implanted embryos to the desired number, or even abort a female when a male is wanted.

Euthanasia will not originate with your beloved grandmother or parents. It will start in a public hospital with a 100-year-old woman who has multiple health problems and "wants" to die so as not to "burden" anyone. Public opinion polls will determine that a majority favor letting -- even helping -- the old girl die.

Yes, there are times when a patient and his family may decide to forego treatment and allow death to occur, but that decision should not be made by a government official. Once that door is opened (as it was with abortion) there will be no closing it and dying will become a patriotic duty when the patient's balance sheet shows a deficit.

They'll probably have a clergyman available to bless the government's decision and make everyone feel better about it.

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About The Author
Cal Thomas is co-author (with Bob Beckel) of the book, "Common Ground: How to Stop the Partisan War That is Destroying America".
 
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Somebody Please Wake Me!
I must surely be having a nightmare,
this cannot be happening in America.

Both parties lack credibility...
...on the life issue. In 2001, George W. Bush created the President's Council on Bioethics, which was filled by "ethicists" who are opposed to extending life, which medically and logically speaking, is no different than denying medical care to the elderly. Valuing the sancity of life is not just refusing to euthanize a sick 90 year old. It also means not denying medical treatments that result in a healthy 150 or even 250 year life expectancy.

amperro
Some of those ethicists are eugenics disciples, of the Darwin lineage. A terrible wthical and moral trap to wade into.

As I see it, everybody I know has an expectation that everything mrdically that can be done for then will be, and done correctly when in need.

A Re-POST of sorts

The only way to defeat the “Obamanation” is to defeat liberals (regardless of party) in 2010. That includes those three Liberal Republican Senators who voted FOR that pork-barrel stimulus bill.

People need to understand HOW a radical socialist eugenics advocate thinks:

“a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring. It is a vicious cycle; ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them. Herein lies the key of civilization.”

U.S socialist writer Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood
and the mother of the abortion movement (1879-1966)

Once the economy is drowned in a see of red ink and they take a closer look at the Obamanation, we can send these socialist eugenics advocates and secular humanists back to the dark side and pursue the principles of the “Reagan Revolution.” Since the Democrats lost their moral compass 40 years ago, we must somehow encourage the Republicans kick the RINO's and Neo-Cons to the curb and defeat the “Radically Wrong.”

Michael W.
Great post. Dash-hole's crap is purely eugenics. What till the first person is rejected for a procedure because they are too old. All h*ll will break loose.

What is worse
is that the camel's nose in this case has been through the tentflap for over 30 years. Having let him in, it will now be impossible for us to push him back out. What's that saying about no outfit being complete without a few camel hairs?

Once Peggy the Moocher and others like her figure out that her healthcare is 'free', the elderly and chronically ill or handicapped will simply become the necessary 'collateral damage' on the road to a paradise where nobody has to pay for anything. She and her ilk will have theirs, after all.

I'd be interested in knowing where the insurance companies stand on this-when HillaryCare was proposed they were immediately up in arms. Or are they in bed with the liberals on this one?

How about a Stimulus for Revolution?
Read Laura Hollis Column today.

The Insurance Companies

Are not only in bed but they are already smoking a cigarette, because their premiums will be guaranteed by Uncle Sam.

Of course when they wake up to the fact that Uncle Sam will be determining the price of those premiums and if and when the insurance companies get paid, well that may change things?


Government Medical Specialists
So now Oslama and people like Daschle want to intervene between Americans and their physicians. If this goes through, many of our best doctors will leave their practice before they have to stand there and watch their patients die while there are lifesaving procedures that are both valid and warranted.

I suppose this will apply to diabetes and diabetic supplies, cardiac drugs, oncology mediation and radiation, and so forth if the patient is too old warrant the expense.

I would also think that this would apply to "defective" children. What an outrage!

I hope that Daschle and anyone going along with this philosophy get what they deserve in the end. A one way ticket to hell.

Cal T...For Life
Not only did Dr Koop forewarn us, Hitler put it into practice during WW II...government stay out of medicine!!

Independence
The solution is secession. Tell Washington DC that they have gone too far. Insist that your state legislatures put secession to a vote every year. This will send a message to DC that we are not going to stand for this anymore.

AliveInHim #7
The insurance companies probably like this, because, when a patient is refused treatment and the insurance company doesn't to pay for it, government made the decision and wil be blamed for it.

Liberals and their perfect leader
I can hardly wait for a liberal to write on this blog and say they are for this part of the bill and are willing to go their grave early because Daschle and his arrogant president are right. Weed out that dam* part of our population!

My daughter-in-law discovered that her very aged grandmother would be eating Thanksgiving dinner alone. While the rest of us gathered together to celebrate, she drove all the way from Colorado to Iowa to be with her grandma. At least I have some comfort that there are people who recognize and honor the wisdom of many years of life.

The solution is secession?

If you plan on this approach, you better have some industrial states on board this time around. Let's not forget what happened the last time secession was tried...

I was going to say:
What really burns me about the interference with medical practice, is that government will not suffer. Even if they have an incurable tumor...they'll just keep radiating and giving chemo.

Baci
Listen a**-wipe: I am home health nurse and know a mountain more than you ever will know.

The fact is that my doctor, should I need expert care such as my daughter who will go into surgery in the near future, will prescribe it and I will get it.

I don't plan, even at 70 and still kicking, to quietly into that good night. Take your facts and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Sanctity of Life
These morons forget that someday they will be old and have outlived their usefullness to society as well. In fact I would postulate that moset of them have achieved that state already.

This is merely another step along the road to perdition. The last best hope of the world has now officially embraced the cult of death that permeates world morality and I'm afraid it will only get worse.

Anyone remember the movie "Soylent Green"?

Mark
You are so...they have no idea how fast the years go. I can't believe I wiull be 70 this year and still plugging away at home health care.

And yes I saw Soylent Green. Gives me the creeps.

Hypocrite!
"Allowing government officials to dictate the practice of medicine sickens me" - well, it should sicken you, but then again, you have no problem with the government or some church official deciding the risk a woman will take with her life, well-being, financial status or direction of life. Women are not community resources that can be utilied as "someone" sees fit, with no regard for that woman's desires. Women, yes women, are individuals with all the rights that men have - the right to decide their life's direction, right to make all medical decisions every step of the way. Whether YOU like it or not is not the issue; who makes the decision and their ability to safely carry out that decision, are the issues. For women, you opt for someone else as we aren't, I suppose competent or trustworthy to know our own minds. Well, think again.

As for the elderly; well it is YOU conservatives that so adamately oppose social security and medicare; although, most elderly are somewhat conservative and have no problems utilizing the benefits (they paid for, by the way). I guess, you just oppose someone else other than yourself at the trough. I have worked in long term care and found it very rewarding. Few people want to die; most want to be taken care of in dignity. I am not the person who would aid them in seeking death. But then again, their care requires financial resources you conservatives clearly do not want to provide. So, take your supposedly righteous indignation and shove it up your backside. You can't have it both way.

Judith: Good call! Be sure to also

read Laura Hollis's column TODAY!

It dove-tails perfectly with Cal's.

See ya there! :-)


Oh and, bacilli knows nothing! He's just a depraved, debauched, deviant.






This is a great plan.
Now we don't have to worry about being able to come up with the money to make social security, medicare and medicaid payments. Oi la problem solved. See how smart socialists are. Maybe we can use this euthanasia strategy to get rid of all of our problems. Like drug addictions, criminals, annoying neighbors that paint their house bright blue etc.

Baci
Annnnnnd...the problems you listed will be taken care of by helping people out the door?

The clients I have are mostly medicare/medicaid with acute post hospitalization issues such as large wounds, a need for continuation of antibiotic therapy, or blood tests on a regular basis. Nothing was ever denied. I also care for quite a number of people with private insurance.

And yes, our meds cost too much but we have options. My daughter receives her meds free of cost and my husband, who is only 60, obtains his meds from Canada.

If you don't want a really direct post, wait until Connecticut Yankee has time for her tea, or, on really raunchy days, coffee.

Alice
Adoption.


I once watched my cat kill 5 of her litter of 6. It was disgusting and heart rending. Isn't it worse for a human mother to act so heartlessly? If you do not feel so then your heart has hardened into stone.

Revolution!
Thank you Demo-craps! We had better get this country back on the logical track and re can do so beginning November 2, 2010. Let the revolution begin that day and let’s sweep the Demo-rats out of Congress!

What if
we keep government out of healthcare
we keep lawyers out of healthcare and we keep insurance companies out of healthcare.
What if families took care of their parents and charities took care of the rest. What if we paid doctors with cash. Wouldn't prices go down. Wouldn't we get better and cheaper service?

We are choosing to allow some beaurocratic postal worker decide whether we live or die so what, so everyone can go for free. NOTHING IS FREE. WE will pay with all of our income.

I say take excellent care of your body and don't go to government doctors, go underground. Hopefully we have raised moral children for our own sakes.

Tom
Only if we do not replace them with socialist- Republicans like Olympia Snowe or Collins or Specter. WE must be careful to hold the REpublican Party accountable.

Joycey: You are absolutely right...

Our existing (until a few minutes from now!) needs fixing...

But who said that SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE is the ONLY VIALBE fix?


It's early
and only a few cockroaches have slithered into the light..things are looking up.

Steven; The only ones that will do that are the ones NOT owned by the DemonRATS. Look at my native state MA, when there are thinking adults in power it prospers, but the idiots there can't stand prosperity so they put nincompoops/crooks/thugs and liars in power..DemonRATS. It's not much better here, with what we have, corruption is the guv's middle name.
Judith I second the motion re: Baci..isn't he a germ? or is it a virus?
Joycey: and liberal, DemonRAT politicians..they
should volunteer as Guinea Pigs for the rest of us. Either you or Judith said you won't go silently into the night, neither will I..I've been telling my son in law my goal is to live past 100 and move in with him :) and the older I get the more he worries..I have a shot at it, my grandma was almost there, she had an Aunt that made it way past, and two aunts and an uncle got into the late 90's.

Yes, Joycey
Health insurance has been a disaster, and things were better decades ago, when people paid their doctors by cash or check. Doctors took IOU's from the indigent and shoved them in their desk drawers where they yellowed with age. My birth in 1951 cost my parents $350. I did not leave off any zeros. My mother had a private room and stayed in the hospital for one week, during which time she had TLC and assistance by RN's in proper infant care.
Now, women whose breasts have been cut off are sent home after 24 hours, then charged $350 for the plastic cup of crushed ice on the bedstand. The advent of insurance meant that patients never questioned the outrageous charges on the the bill, because they were not paying it. The sky's the limit as to what can be billed,and guess what! My elderly mother visiting me in Boulder couldn't be treated at our local emergency care clinic because they don't take Medicare. She said she would just write them a check, and they couldn't go outside the system. She never asked for or wanted medicare! Canada just passed a law that patients may not go out of their socialist provider system. Welcome to Brave New World.

IT IS NOT A STIMULOUS

.....IT IS A GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER ...READ LAURA HOLLIS .....COLOSSUS

Pharmaceutical
companies and insurance companies have been in bed together for years. They have both been responsible for keeping the doctor's hands tied behind his/her backs. Our oldest daughter needs a drug to help with her lack of circulation--you may have heard of it. Viagra. Gee golly, when Pfizer found out how it helped a certain problem for men--it was no longer available for her circulatory problems. Neither will her insurance cover it. So--what men can get covered by insurance to keep it up, she has to pay $17.00/pill for and do you think that her husband and her being poor and having 3 little ones helped Pfizer decide to help her with the cost???? I'll give you one guess....but they sure were nice when they decided to f**k her over! Even I got a phone call from them trying to explain the "dilemma." Now Obama's plan will probably deem our daughter's life too costly to continue what with trying to save her remaining fingers and toes and such....
With this election, this once great country now officially sucks.

Waitin' On My Knee
I "need" a knee replacement because of an injury that occurred in 2000. So far I have held it off by use in Synvisc injections. I am a very active person, and take the idea of replacing something as integral to my lifestyle as an extremely important decision.
Now I am afraid of waiting much longer lest I be deemed too old. Or, if BO and ilk get their way, I will be told to get in line, and maybe, or not, I will get the surgery.
I wonder if good old AARP realized this possibility as they pushed, donated and lobbied for both BO and National Health Care. They are potentially asking the members to vote themselves off the face of the earth. So is the American Cancer Society in favor of NHCare. That will certainly change the whole face of oncology.

MMaddox #33
Somebody please wake me!
Like you, I feel I am not in the same world, I was in last year. Somewhere in June or July, I felt I went through a door into another world. It is not the same one I was in prior. I had been walking through the mountains of Ar. for awhile thinking of where this nation was going. When I returned home, I said to my wife, "Susie, I went through a door and the world changed. She said, boy, I just had that same feeling about an hour ago.
Strange, isn't it, that she felt the same thing? I have been looking for that doorway, however it is gone. After much searching through old books, both secular and religious and watching the world events today,I have come to the conclusion, God has put this nation out into the naked condition as the rest of the world. This last Bastion of Freedom is gone. God's Umbrella of protection has been furled and put away. What is coming is Ordained of God for His reason. The storm is upon us.

mass hysteria
would you guys get a hold of yourselves here.

this has all been debunked.

why are some conservatives believing everything they read without question.

i saw last week eric cantor go on and on about how there was money in the stimulus for a mouse in san francisco.

he was challenged by obey of michigan to show him where that was in the bill.

it wasn't there.

the same is true here.

the woman who started this rumor was a paid consultant for cantrel phama company and it was proven false but not before rush, hannity and sowell picked up on her lie and believed it.


at least try to get some facts before declaring the world is coming to an end.

Terri Schiavo
I realized this is where we were headed the day the government "signed" Terri's death warrant. She had parents, a sister, and a brother willing to care for her; but NO, one single judge decided "she wouldn't want to live that way," while stubbornly ignoring and disallowing any contrary testimony. The U.S. Congress couldn't stop it, the Governor and citizens of Florida couldn't stop it, the Supreme Court wouldn't stop it--she was deemed a burden, defective, and unworthy of life!

We are in deep trouble, people. PRAY!

joycey
you say this

I say take excellent care of your body and don't go to government doctors, go underground.

"government doctors and going underground" WOW

i am sorry but you have become a conspiracy nutter.


christianlib...
Did Obey of Michigan really read the 1000+ pages of the stimulus bill to say one way or another?

Are YOU sure it isn't there? What about the "laser" train between SoCal and Las Vegas...is that just another "conservative" ploy?

Maybe you should take your own advise and only speak when you are certain of all the goodies contained in the mammoth bill.

christianlib
No one here is thinking the world is coming to an end. If only......

ABORTION,GENOCIDE,INFANTCIDE AND
Coming up next in the human rights association circle of love, mercy and grace is the euthanasia of the elderly. The Supreme Court have protected murder by the choice of abortion. Which have led to genocide and infantcide according to CDC records. How many minorities will be killed to save Pelosi, Reid, and Obama money.

Pay attention Cal
Cal, this story has been completely debunked in the week since Betsy McCaughey first made it up. It is completely bogus. You really need to do some fact-checking before you start hyperventilating.

If you really wanted to find out about this "new" Health Information Technology Office contained in the stimulus bill, maybe you could talk with David Brailer. Brailer, it turns out, was appointed to head this office in 2004 when it was created by President Bush. In case you are doing the math at home,this was five years before the stimulus bill was enacted.

The purpose of this office is to do two things. The first is to help standardize medical record keeping to lower health care costs. It also has the benefit of making medical records more portable so that physician errors are reduced.

The second purpose of the office was to create a database on treatments. The goal isn't to have personally identifiable medical information available to anyone, it is to provide a resource for physicians on what treatments are working for illnesses. If I have a patient with Disease X and want to find out how other docs are treating it, a national clearinghouse would be invaluable. If I check that database and find 90% of patients are responding favorably to Drug Y, it could help guide my treatment options.

How you get from here to hyperventilating over euthanasia and abortion is beyond me. But you at least ought to check facts before you provide misleading and inaccurate information.

ken
thank you for re-inforcing my point that for some reason rumors seem to turn into facts.

the conservative media is doing its consumers a disservice in not fact checking its sources.

to allow so many conservatives to be deluded by stories that are simply made-up outright lies is not a good thing.

y
as a matter of fact, many congressmen and women and their staffs were up all night reading it.

it seems that republicans were just lazy and only looked for areas that they were opposed to.

actually, i saw the whole exchange on c-span and cantor looked like a fool.

obey simply kept saying "show me where it is in the bill".

finally, cantor had to back down and walk away.

Quote of the day
From 6 time candidate for President of the United States...under the Socialist party ticket

The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.

Norman Thomas – 1927

the best end of life

You love to see people suffer from before they are born, to after they are done living.

You wouldn't treat a dog like that.

My mother passed her driving test, then a week later was sentenced to a death worse than hanging, for 17 months in a bed. Do you think that she, her children, or her nurses wanted that to happen?

No it is a result of intense Brainwashing since birth, and the law that says you suffer as long as we can make you suffer.

My oldest sister helped my youngest sister wallpaper a bedroom, went home fixed supper, went to bed, then on to Heaven.

Which one had the best end of life?

Let God do it, and remember God don’t use no tubes, no wires, no knives, no machines, and no pills or shots.

The solution: A Kevorkian Room in every so called medical home, available 24/7. Admission price, a non-”living” body in the bed.


Christianlib...
oh...i see. only the dems stayed up all night reading it...your assertion that republicans were too lazy to read it over night is already a claim that diffuses your point. i believe most congressmen did not read all those pages...maybe their staff made an attempt...when the last time someone could read 1000+ pages in a few hours and retain, much less, master the content? irresponsible for anyone to sign this bill without really knowing everything contained in its pages...scary! is this the way it's going to be now...not impressed!!

your views are clouded by your own prejudices...you are guilty of the same rhetoric of which you accuse others.

read the bill for yourself! why believe any congressman or pundit? let me know where the nearly $800B is going...lots of waste, i'm sure!

BTW...have the dems or obama made the bill easily accessible for WE THE PEOPLE to review in a timely manner? the financials are responding so well to this bill and geithner today...have you seen it?

transparency...accountability...responsibility...what happened, christianlib?


The Solution is simple...
NO GOVERNMEMT payments for healthcare. As everyone knows, he who has the gold makes the rules. Everyone ought to do anything they can to remain healthy and privately insured. If you have to drop the car insurance, life insurance, the cell phone, and all the other non-essential, and many gubmint-mandated, payments for "what ifs" THEN DO IT! We cannot continue to demand gubmint "programs" and expect that they will run the way we see fit. There is plenty of evidence that gubmint is inefficient IN EVERYTHING it does. We can start by having those under the age of sixty REFUSE to become a part of the whole medicare/social security system. They give you no money and they make no rules. Will you have to work the rest of your life? Probably, but you will be in control of it.

No Surprise Here
Any party who feels like abortion of babies is OK and should be encouraged certainly won't feel any pain letting Grandma and Gramdpa go to the happy hunting grounds. Actually, maybe Universal Healthcare will work if we kill the young and the old.

SO SOMEBODY LIKE BARNEY FRANK ????
will decide what kind of medical care we get!my gosh its really much worse than what we thought!

y
you made the point it couldn't be read, so my reponse from watching c-span was that some had read it.

that is a fact.

it was also on-line because i heard limbaugh complaining he couldn't keyword on it, which was another lie, he just didn't know how to keyword a pdf file.

as far as the stock market, wall street wants all the bad debt wiped out and until that happens they are not going to be happy.

obama's policies are to stimulate the economy not wall street.

no no no
this story is false.

i don't know why no one has fact checked this but it is simply misplaced hysteria.

Christianlib...
some had read it? who? all democrats? that's what you claim. you give no credit to any republican that may have read it as well. and, i stick to my argument that few, if any, really know/comprehend all the details contained inside this bill...especially at the time of the signing of the bill between friday & saturday. maybe more details are becoming clear now...but it's too late, don't you think? again...where was the transparency we were promised?

do you have that much confidence in obama, pelosi and reid? and, how do you trust a secretary of the treasury that cheated his fellow-countrymen out of taxes knowingly and was an integral part of TARP one (failure!)? oh, wait...are these charges also a republican fantasy? maybe you could fact-check mr. geithner while you're at it.

a true intellect searches for truth no matter where it may be found. suppose you cool your partisan jets and take an extended gander at the bill that was just signed on your behalf and what the implications are short-term and long-term. if i made decisions on my budget the way congress just did...i'd be considered an irresponsible idiot...i do not trust them to manage this monstrosity either...do you?

Christianlib
You are right about the story on "Pelosi's mouse" also. Like Cal Thomas' column today, it was a complete fabrication.

The Washington Post had a story on it, tracing not only the way the falsehood itself but how it made its way around the blogosphere.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/stimulus-package/pelosi-s taff-conservative-talking-point-about-30-million-for-mice-i s-fabrication/

Just another illustration of how a lie can make it around the world twice while the truth is still getting its pants on.

This Universal Healthcare Program ...
will work - but only if the politicians face the same risks as the rest of us. If they know that they will NOT be allowed to get special care not available for the common citizen, then they will insure that all of us get it. But as long as there are exceptions for those considered worthy, they will consider themselves the MOST worthy. It has always saddened me to see the politicians take the attitude that they were better than everyone else simply because they can get elected.

Another way to get votes:
Considering that most elderly are conservative, this is another Democratic effort to get the vote to go therr way. After all, if you let all the elderly die there are fewer conservatives and more liberals by numbers. LOL

Baci
You are right that doctors are angry with health care today. One of the main reasons is what happened when insurance companies were allowed to mandate managed care and pre-certification. I worked in the health care industry for over 20 years and what is going on is a shame but it is far better than what will happen when we get this universal health care. I remember a nurse for the insurance company once who would only pre-certify a 1 day hospital stay for a young woman who had a malignant brain tumor and was about to have surgery, unfortunately the patient would not have even been out of intensive care in 1 day. I questioned if they would like the doctor to roll the patient from the street to surgery and then back out to the street to save money. At least the person was able to get the surgery which bought her some months of reasonably good life. With our new Universal care I am sure that it would be considered a waste of money to operate after all she will die anyway.

45caliber
With all respect, don't get too worried over this. Cal Thomas story is 100% factually incorrect. See my 12:11 post for details.

Cal, it appears, is getting too gullible in his dotage.

ken
thanks for the confirmation.

like i said i watched the discussion on c-span and when asked to prove the rumor, cantor and the republicans backed down.

45caliber
if indeed we are headed to a health care system that selects the winners and losers...then many of the members of congress are screwed! they are too old...oh, no!

you hit on a universal truth...when socialism hits the mainland...somehow the limitations only apply to you and me. those in control are not subjected to the same litmus test. it is the worst of class disparity...that is why i laugh at those that scream about the unfairness of our social class system her in the U.S....they haven't lived in an oppressive country like i have. they are clueless and only live in theoretical utopias...socialism is the most egregious power grab ever created by man. it brings out the worst in us.

jim in CA
You are one very scary fellow. I have a story for you: I watched my young son-in-law fight a losing battle with cancer with courage and determination and hope that inspired EVERY person priviledged to come into contact with him. His children knew he loved them enough to fight until his last breath, to stay with them as long as possible--he NEVER gave up! He left a legacy of love, hope, and faith. I wish you could one day meet someone like him.

I know that Pope Benedict XVI
is going to give Nancy Pelosi an earful tomorrow--but we'll never get to know here in America where everything the Pope says is twisted and turned.....

How About A Stimulus For Life?
I'm afraid we're in for the worst times of our nations's history. Government will try and control everything. I see times coming when hosts of citizens will refuse such intrusion, even if it costs them their lives.

But hey, doesn't the Bible say that in unvelievable wicked times will come in the last day? Man, when left to his own idea of morality, falls into wickedness every time.

By faith, we that believe look forward to better times as a resul of the judgment of God.

y
i find it interesting that you are probably one of the most partisan posters i have seen while accusing others of partisanship.

i try to follow facts where ever they go.

please tell me which bills you have read in full prior to this one.

please tell me which bill in the republican congress was put online.

i remember democrats complaining about the same thing when republican were in charge.

you want to portray yourself as intellectually clean when your double standard is apparent to all.

y
did you object to the socialist tendancies of bush.

he nationalized banks, increased that socialist medicare and involved the feds even deeper into education.

when i hear you admit bush's policies were socialist then you will have credibility.

Christianlib and Ken...
here is a quote from PolitiFact.com regarding the SF wetlands/marsh mouse project...

"Three projects would turn abandoned industrial salt operations back into natural wetlands, about 26,000 acres in all. It turns out the mouse is an endangered species that likes tidal salt marshes, and it's mentioned by name as one of several species that will benefit."

SO...it in NOT factually incorrect that $37.5 million has been set aside for a project that WOULD indeed help the Salt Marsh Mouse in the SF bay area. Bottom line...the funding is included in the stimulus bill for these cute little creatures and their habitat. YOU, my friends, are misleading the good people reading your comments...for shame!

it is comical to read the entire piece on PolitiFact.com...it charges the Marsh Mouse rumors as false, yet by their own admission, the taxpayer dollars are available for such a project. WOW!!! which way is it, now? can't have it both ways, Christianlib and Ken!!!

Christianlib...
hated every minute of it...bush paved the way...it was a real disappointment!

now you see...i am not beholden to any person or party...are you surprised. so many libs can't bring themselves to criticize or chastise their own...too bad...we are the worse for it.

all i want is intellectual honesty from ALL sides.


STIMULOUS FO LIFE
The only stimulous we will get is a 2,000 volt prod if you don't cater to the new regime!

Y
It is correcct that the funds COULD be used for that project that would benefit Pelosi's mouse. But that was not the story that was being spread.

The story was that this was an earmark set aside for this specific project. That is not correct.

It is like saying that funds for a correctional facility COULD be used to create a concentration camp for the politically incorrect. True, but also pretty unlikely.

Logan's Run
If you remember the movie Logan's Run, if this eugenics act actually happens, we are going to be in the same condition. Why is it necessary that the government feels the need to play God in deciding who lives or who dies? If the Darwinist's had their way, only they would be left to inhabit the Earth, and everyone else is expendable. Sounds like the Marxism of the 3rd Reich is starting to take over the government.

Ken...
you're funny! really...talking about splitting hairs!! the bottom line is THE $37.5 MILLION IS THERE FOR THE WETLANDS PROJECT which includes the pelosi's mouse.

Whether the money is used for the project or not is any one's guess, BUT it IS part of the bill...is it not? the republicans did not fabricate this from thin air as you and Christianlib would have us believe!!! You are wrong...plain and simple!

please don't lecture the republicans for spinning the stimulus bill...unless you are willing to do the same to the dems. can you be honest enough to admit that there is ridiculous waste in this bill...pet projects...social engineering...expansion of government...crony-ism...pay-to-play...take your pick, Ken.

Y
Read further, Y. It is on a list of projects that COULD be funded from the bill but there is no guarantee that any one of them will receive funding.

And even if it does, is funding for environmental restoration of a salt marsch the same as spending that money on a mouse? Is this how grown-ups really think and act?

And I will certainly admit that there is a lot of spending and a big expansion of government in the stimulus bill. That's the entire point of it.

I want to be with her, now

IM4LIFE Location: FL
Reply # 62
Date: Feb 17, 2009 - 2:37 PM EST
I watched my young son-in-law fight a losing battle with cancer with courage and determination and hope that inspired EVERY person priviledged to come into contact with him.
===========

I can not stand to see people suffer. The fact that you are proud that he suffered, is beyond me.

My Sweetie had Alzheimer’s for several years, and finally spent her last 5 nights in a medical home, with enough pain shots to keep her quiet. I cried for her the whole time.

=====

11:12 AM, November 15, 2005

For the next several minutes I kissed My Sweetie all over her face, her eyes, her mouth, and all over.
_______________________________
As I lifted my head, I would swear she had a different expression on her face, she took two more breaths, then left for Heaven.
_______________________________
I was no more than 5 or 6 inches from her face, so did not miss a thing.
_______________________________
It was as if I had given her permission to leave, and that was her last look of love, especially for me.
_______________________________
I am crying as I type, I want to be with her, now!

Ken...
but the whole notion that somehow the repubs were creating a complete fabrication is misleading, Ken.

it is indeed one of the possible projects included in the bill...do we just ignore it? i don't even care if the funding is for environmental restoration or the mouse or both...the fact is that the provision is there. i just don't understand why you make a distinction at this point as to where the money "might" go...if it is a possible project and the money has been approved, then it as good as done in my opinion. until i see anything different, i still say the bill does indeed include $37.5 million for SF's wetlands.

which brings me to another point...i live in florida...what the heck is my tax dollar doing going to SF for their wetland project? this is why this whole stimulus bill stinks...create long-term, "real" jobs, not temporary work. i am sure there is enough wealth in california and enough nature lovers to fund the wetland project without my assistance. let my dollar go to an environmental restoration project here in florida. why should you, a Tennessean, fund projects in florida...keep your money and help your state and local community. let me keep more of my money so i can contribute in a meaningful way. we are broke, ken...this country cannot sustain this kind of continual spending...the government has proven to be extremely harmful/wasteful managers of OUR money...i feel like the abused woman who keeps going back for more...when we we learn to pull the reigns back on government and say ENOUGH!? corruption to the eyeballs...self-preservation...power-grabbers...favors galore for their peeps...ughhh! where do you and i fit in to their world, ken? answer: nowhere!!!

jim @ 4:36
I am very sorry for your loss, and the pain you experience, even now.

Every one lived until they died.

On this, and all pages on TH, we hear complaints, and suggestions to change the health care system in this country and that. I have proposed my suggestion many times, and no one on TH has has a reasonable comment, pro or con.

Come on comment!!

=====

It seems that everyone would be happy if we could solve the Health care problem one way or another.

The easiest way would be to eliminate it, and we could go back to when no one had medical insurance, and we did just fine. Every one lived until they died.

We also didn’t spend those hundreds of billions of dollars on each doctor’s office needing a couple of people just to work on insurance records, and untold billions on insurance company employees, equipment, and buildings.

So many people want what they call a “single-payer” system, where everything is taken care by some Government financial Agency. They are not aware of the problems in other countries where the government tries to run and pay for health care.

That would still require billions of dollars of people filling out, and checking paperwork, and keeping track of all that is going on, and deciding who can and who can’t have this pill or that knife.

Well, if everyone would be as happy as they seen to think they will be, my plan will save billions.

Open a government checking account, and give every qualified, certified doctor, every medical institution in the country a checkbook. At the end of each day, they each would write a check for what they did that day, and that’s it. Just enter it all in a special computer system, and that's it.

You don’t believe that in this perfect system, someone would steal from the Government bank account, do you? Well what are they doing today?

Well we could hire a million accountants to keep an eye on it, and randomly check what is going on, that would still be cheaper than what is done today, or proposed for tomorrow.



y
i laud you on your response to bush's socialistic tendancies.

on the other hand i supported bush on faith based initiatives, money to africa and his immigration proposals.

so as you can see, i do not limit myself to one party or person.

here is what i found on the marsh mouse, which was not in the house bill.

" it was the Senate bill that said a sum of money ($50 million) “may be used for” programs under the California Bay-Delta Restoration Act. The House bill included no such stipulation, calling only for $50 million for a “Watershed Rehabilitation Program.” It’s worth noting that the Senate also stipulated that another $50 million “may” be used for the Central Utah Projection Completion Act. Would that be $50 million of pork for Republican Sens. Orrin Hatch and Robert Bennett? Or a necessary stimulus for a vital project? The funding for both the California and Utah programs survived in the final conference report."

A Pelosi spokesman told the Washington Times that she had no involvement in directing the funds to the harvest mouse project, noting that “restoration is key to economic activity, including farming, fisheries, recreation and clean water.”

now the point is--- don't get up on the floor of Congress and claim something is fact when it isn't.

it came out today that eric cantors wife worked for a bank that recieved 250 million dollars of bail out money.

he voted for it. sounds like a conflict of interest to me.


I am gross and perverted
I'm obssessed and deranged. I have existed for years but very little has changed. I'm the tool of the government, and industry too. For I am destined to rule and regulate you.
I may be vile and pernicious, but you can't look away. I make you think I'm delicious with the stuff that I say. I'm the best you can get, have you guessed me yet? I'm the slime oozing out of your T.V. set.
You will obey me while I lead you. And eat the garbage that I feed you. Until the day that we don't need you, don't go for help no one will heed you. Your mind is totally in control, it has been stuffed into my mold. And you will do as you are told until the rights to you are sold! Frank Zappa

christianlib...
conflict of interest...lots of that going on in WDC...why stop with cantor? keep going...i'm sure you'll find massive abuses on both sides of the aisle. but, i notice very few libs confronting their own leaders on such issues. the finger is always pointed at "the other guy." no conflicts of interest inside the dem's camp...right?

yes...i know...mrs. pelosi would never involve herself with such abhorrent behavior...spokespersons are always truthful when speaking about their bosses and their bosses actions. excuse me for not putting too much stake in that one, dear christianlib.

see...what matters to me is not who gets $50 million here and $50 million there...pelosi, hatch, bennett...rather why and how this money is being spent inside of a STIMULUS bill. and, enough with the job creation these projects would provide (except the temporary work)...then the projects turn into a continual money pit...the restoration needs an "up-do"...send more money...erosion...help...and on & on.

let all the greedy senators/congressman fight it out in an appropriations bill...yawn...waste of our money...stop the bleeding!! we have become a country of wimps and opportunists. i know better than any one in WDC how to best spend MY money. i work too hard to have the hacks in washington take a large portion of my $ to support their pet projects and line the pockets of each other and their friends. i know what charities and environmental projects i would like to invest in...especially in my home state. let california, utah, etc, find their own funding. you can't tell me that SF can't find private donors to fund the wetlands project...please!!! you see, christianlib, i am not impressed with any of your arguments or excuses or fact-finding...the bottom line is these projects ARE IN THIS BILL...how my money is used is up to the schmucks in congress...the vagueness of what you just quoted to me is possibly more worrisome!!


FRIDAY THE 13TH HORROR BILL
By coincidence the Friday the 13th Horror Bill was signed into law by Obama at 1300 hours (1:23 PM) Denver time at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. If you translate the letters of this six word name into their numerical equivalents using the standard English numerological system: A-I=1-9; J-R=1-9; S-Z=1-8 it will have a total numeric value of 130, or 13 with the zero dropped.

Click ApolloSpeaks to read the rest of this piece: Sign of the Destructive Sixties: The Friday the 13th Horror Bill and the Meaning of Ted Kennedy's Absence from the Vote.
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