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Wednesday, December 24, 2008
Cal  Thomas :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Politics of Prayer
by Cal Thomas
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


These days everything is political, or can be made so; even an inaugural prayer.

That isn't exactly correct. The inaugural prayer in question is not the Rev. Joseph Lowery's benediction, but Rick Warren's invocation. Lowery favors same-sex "marriage" and Warren does not.

Homosexual activist groups and individuals such as Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) are angry, upset and hurt (and probably many other things, too) that Barack Obama would invite Warren to pray at the inaugural. Warren openly supported California's Proposition 8, which voters approved. The measure changed the state constitution to restrict marriage to opposite-sex couples.

Obama, so far, has stood by his choice, noting he favors much of the gay-rights agenda (though not marriage). Warren, too, felt the need to say "some of my best friends are ..." at a Dec. 20 event in Long Beach, Calif., sponsored by a Muslim organization. Warren tried to pacify gays opposed to him by saying how much he loves singer Melissa Etheridge, who is a lesbian. He said he owns all of her albums. He also said he loves Muslims, Jews and everyone else.

Warren has been dubbed the successor to evangelist Billy Graham, who has known every president since Harry Truman and counseled several of them. Graham could serve as an example to Warren of how to (and how not to) relate to presidents should he become even closer to President Obama.

All presidents want the cover of religion for their policies, and preachers, who are just as human as the rest of fallen humanity, are sometimes vain enough to think they can be unofficial advisors to the most powerful person on earth and not be compromised by him. The problem comes when the pastor and representative of another King and another Kingdom waters down his advice, or endorses bad decisions in order to maintain access to the president. People of different faiths -- or no faith -- and those with political objectives will seek to use the preacher not only to advance their agendas, but to get him to compromise his, which is primarily sharing a message not of this world.

Secretly recorded conversations between Graham and President Richard Nixon expose some of the dangers in such relationships. Graham told Nixon he thought the president should bomb the dikes in North Vietnam to help bring the war to an end.

In an embarrassing recording from early 1972, for which Graham later profusely apologized, the evangelist is heard volunteering to Nixon that the Jewish "stranglehold" on the media "has got to be broken or this country's going down the drain."

"You believe that?" asks Nixon.

"Yes, sir," replied Graham.

"Oh boy," said Nixon, "So do I. I can't ever say that but I believe it."

"If you get elected a second time," said Graham, "then we might be able to do something."

If Obama plans on having Warren as a presence in his presidency, Warren should seek to model himself more after Nathan the prophet. Nathan confronted King David over his affair with Bathsheba, whose husband, Uriah the Hittite, David sent to the front lines to ensure he would be killed so that David could have his wife. God sent Nathan to David. Nathan told David a story about a rich man who stole a poor man's lamb rather than take one from his own flock to feed a visitor. Nathan asked David what should happen to such a man. David replied, "that man should surely die." To which Nathan replied, "You are the man." (2 Samuel 12)

Nathan's confrontation led to David's repentance and one of the most beautiful Psalms ever written (Psalm 51). The point is that Nathan did not compromise Truth, but confronted David with what he had done wrong. How many modern preachers would confront a president like that? Probably not many if they wanted to maintain access.

I suspect Rick Warren knows these dangers, but what he could use are some people around him to say he's not as great as people might think. Checks and balances are not only good in government, they are also helpful to people who ascend to high places. No one is above the temptations of pride, including preachers who pray at inaugurals and possibly in the White House.

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About The Author
Cal Thomas is co-author (with Bob Beckel) of the book, "Common Ground: How to Stop the Partisan War That is Destroying America".
 
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Probably Just Friendship
On the part of both Obama and Warren. They did get together for a world-wide fight against AIDS and poverty not long ago.

I do agree with Cal that temptation rears its ugly head though, on the part of the pastors who frequent the White House often. And I agree that Pastor Warren should be more of a Nathan but I just don't think it's his personality. I think he's quite firm in speaking truth, actually, and I'm very traditional and conservative and tend to be pretty critical of ministers, pastors and evangelists. I think we should pray for Rick Warren.

The story about Billy Graham and Nixon was surprising for me, but he used to be more outspoken in some areas than he is now. He has softened some over the years. Now it's Franklin that is more outspoken. I prefer ministers and evangelists that tell it like it is and don't take any guff off of liberals or radicals of any kind. But I do realize that people come in personality "types" and that determines the stands we take and the words we use to a great degree.

Ron
What did President-Elect Obama promise to do that makes you so nervous? Please tell me. I have heard all the scare tactics exaggerations and outright lies about what he has "promised", but I have neither seen nor read anything promised by PE Obama that is at all frightening.

Give me an example, please.

aurorawatcher
As far as who gives the invocation goes, I never considered it anything more than a sideshow and a leftover from a better time in the nation's history, so I don't really care who gives it, but as far as pastors goes, I'd look a lot deeper than just good sermons.

The nation just elected a guy who gives good sermons and the church had better have better discernment than that in choosing its shepherds since the stakes are much much higher.

Chuck
I don't know Warren personally and generally, when a church picks a pastor, they should know the man a little bit. So far, the theology I've heard him present in his sermons has been evangelical in nature. That's the best I can do in determining his spiritual qualifications.

It's not like either of us have any control over who Obama will take spiritual advice from. However, if the choice were between Jeremiah Wright, that gay Episcopal bishop of Rick Warren, right now, I'd say he'd be more likely to get Biblical advice from Rick Warren than from either of the other two.

If I ever get to meet the man I'll let you know if I'd let him be pastor of my church.

President's can't be too careful
Every one who comes across the President has their own agenda. It's up to the President who he will listen to. Thats why he has his advisor's. If the President's advisor's lets him down, then the President is open to bad influence. If some one happens to take advantage of a President while in a questionable state then who do you blame. Graham knew President Nixon well enough to counsel him, so he knew President Nixon's state of mind. If Graham crossed the line and advised President Nixon on what he should do, then Graham violated the trust President Nixon put in him. If the past doesn't serve as an example of what not to do in the future, then history is bound to repeat itself. Americans must not restrict themselves to just party ties or we see another civil war in Washington.

aurorawatcher
The problem is magnified when the church begins to use the world's qualifications for who it considers its "spokesmen".

So he is respected and his advice is sought out by unsaved secularists, has a large congregation, does many mighty works "in His name", and is a best selling author of a largely sociological treatise maquerading as Theology.

Other than that, what qualifications would you use to allow him and his influences into your congregation?

An evangelical perspective
I don't know Rick Warren. I've read a couple of his books and helped start a Celebrate Recovery group in our town (yes, Christian addicts/alcoholics/codependents need a group that recognizes our higher power!), I've listened to a couple of his sermons just lately. He seems like he's a Christian. He is seeker-sensitive, which I don't personally have a problem with so long as he doesn't water down the gospel in his attempt to be sensitive. Christians should all be sensitive to seekers; I was one myself a few decades ago. In the two (maybe three) sermons of Warren's that I've seen, he didn't seem to be doing that, but I'd have to see more to know for sure.

Does he have the stuff to be Nathan? I don't know. I think Billy Graham tried, but he admitted to failure with several of his attempts. Certainly he strayed into politics occasionally. I would note, so did Nathan, but he was careful to always speak what God had told him, not what he personally thought best. David clearly cherished Nathan's advice, even as he was being told he'd lose four of his children for his sin with Bathsheba. Still, had Nathan taken that approach with King Saul, he'd have been killed. So the question remains, does Rick Warren have the stuff to be Obama's Nathan. Well, I think he might have the stuff to be the next Billy Graham, whose eyes are growing old, but Nathan --? I guess we'll see.

Which will it be?
Will the Obamanation go against everything he promised and do what will actually be for the good of the nation and the people, resulting with all Americans voting to re-elect him in 2012?

OR

Will the Obamanation do everything he promised to do, with all the people in 2010 praying that an asteroid the size of the Alps will hit DC?

Gestell
"very well" is an interesting way of putting it.

Mutual exploitation
Obama and Warren are exploiting each other. Obama wants to be able to sell himself, at least a little bit, as an evangelical, and thereby attract evangelicals who don't understand their own positions. Warren wants the free publicity, the media time, to enhance his own image (and doubtless his bank accounts). Mutual exploitation is often good politics. The problem for conservatives should be that the net victor here is Obama, the net loser is Warrn. Warren will have a difficult time making any future attacks he may level at Obama credible. All in all, Obama has handled this very well.

RE Michael:
"Bush Signs Law Protecting Retirement Benefits For Gay Couples...."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this. What the law says is that when a person who has saved money to a tax-deferred plan decides to bequeath the tax-deferred part of their estate to someone who is not their spouse, upon their death there will not be immediate payout from the tax-deferred plan and therefore immediate tax ramifications.

I will reiterate with small words for liberals. The law Bush signed removes the immediate tax "penalty" from the lawful practice of leaving a tax-deferred savings to a someone in a last will and testament when that person is NOT a spouse. That person could be a child, a grandchild, a sibling, a faithful servant, a life-long friend, a lost soul, a complete stranger, or perhaps, and ONLY perhaps, a same-sex partner.

The law does not mean someone hit the jackpot right away, the fact is, the inheritance is a tax-defer red one, the purpose of which is to create an annuity to be drawn upon at retirement when, presumably, income taxes will not have as much impact upon a person as when they were working. This is not a pro-gay law, or a gay-friendly law; this is a people-friendly law, a conservative law, a law which says on its face, "Inheritance taxes are oppressive to the vast majority of Americans." Inheritance taxes were and always will be a way some people think to prevent a ruling class by accumulating wealth. Whether that's a good thing or not I leave to further discussion.

Cal Thomas
is right. Can anyone imagine John the Baptist giving the invocation at Herod's coronation? The role of a minister is to preach the gospel and call people to repentance, not give legitimacy to a wicked ruler.

grammshart
God won't bless or approve a BHO inaugration. Saw Warren on TV. He's a good pep talker, but weak on hammering in core values, doctrine, and tradition. That makes him open to dangers such as BHO's anti-Christian agenda, and BHO will try to use him to gain legitimacy.

I just noticed Chucks posting and I can believe it, because Warren speaks much
differently from what I am used to hearing
from clergymen, and I find some of it offensive.

Keep in mind the only reason BHO won't be using Rev Wright is because the public got a few good looks at Wright. But Wright should be the cleric doing BHO's invocation. The fact that BHO is a pretender, however, would require a cleric preside who was giving the public a false view of how things really are, as Warren would end up doing if he did the invocation, now that Wright can no longer pretend he's a good American Christian.

grammshart
"Rev. Warren is the current foremost recognized Christian pastor."

Yes, but unfortunately, not by Christians.

Invocation
Rev. Warren is the current foremost recognized Christian pastor. As such, an invocation by him is most appropriate. An invocation is a prayer of petition to God to bless and approve the occasion at which it is given. I believe God hears and responds to all of us when we pray with pure intention. Rev. Warren is not going to give a lecture (homily) on morals or mores. His role is to ask that our just Father in heaven guide and protect our new president and his administration as they carry on the business of keeping our country free and prosperous. Rev. Warren is immensley qualified for that role. The gay community just needs to continue to call attention to what they "need" what they "want" - like spoiled children who never want to hear an opposing point of view.
I didn't vote for him, but I must say, "Bravo" to the president-elect.

Bush
Bush Signs Law Protecting Retirement Benefits For Gay Couples....

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/24/bush-gay-benefits/

Inauguration Prayer
Had I been in Warrens's shoes I would have declined the invitation.
It's just a political ploy from "The One" to give credence to his being a "Christian" even as he espouses the evils of abortion and gay and liberal lifestyles.
Obams is NOT a Christian and he never will be.

Merry Christmas Everyone
O holy night, the stars are brightly shining;
It is the night of the dear Savior’s birth!
Long lay the world in sin and error pining,
Till He appeared and the soul felt its worth.
A thrill of hope, the weary soul rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.

Fall on your knees, O hear the angel voices!
O night divine, O night when Christ was born!
O night, O holy night, O night divine!

Led by the light of faith serenely beaming,
With glowing hearts by His cradle we stand.
So led by light of a star sweetly gleaming,
Here came the wise men from Orient land.
The King of kings lay thus in lowly manger,
In all our trials born to be our friend!

Fall on your knees, O hear the angel voices!
O night divine, O night when Christ was born!
O night, O holy night, O night divine!

Truly He taught us to love one another;
His law is love and His Gospel is peace.
Chains shall He break for the slave is our brother
And in His Name all oppression shall cease.
Sweet hymns of joy in grateful chorus raise we,
Let all within us praise His holy Name!

Why even talk about an inaugration
Why do so many people even talk about an inaugration of BHO? It's obvious at this point he isn't even Constitutionally qualified to be president, and everyone knows there can be no honest explanation for his having not produced a copy of his original birth certificate. So everyone knows, by inference, he does not meet the Constitutional requirement that a presendial candidate be a natural born citizen.

EVERYONE KNOWS THIS, by inference, to be true.

It is sadly amusing how the majority of commentators, by reputation some of society's most responsible people,
say nothing about the matter, often implying the matter is not a fit topic, as a ploy, doing so because they know it may become an issue and don't want to be on record as taking the wrong side, when this matter is eventually decided.

These timid fearful ones may just lose our country for us if thier
charades of hypocrisy and pretensions doesn't end soon.

The courts must hear this matter.

Lepanto: You have to forgive daft! He's

been told COUNTLESS TIMES by ME, and untold times by others, (and provided LINKS) regarding "factcheck.ORG" as an UNreliable source..

Poor daft, like most intellectually limited libs, is a slow learner, and in serious DENIAL!


to Just a Thinker
You are very blessed to have such a great Pastor.
I am very glad Obama picked Rick Warren for the prayer. I did not vote for Obama.
Warren loves all and he realizes it is not his or our place to judge others.
God bless and Merry Christmas to all.

Taft
As I said to Ann in an earlier thread, Obama's stance on the issue is a matter of record in the Illinois state senate. Look it up.

I may disagree with our President Elect on this issue but I do support him as our nation's leader and pray he turns out to be a strong president. With the current threats to our country all Americans need to get behind him. I do intend to remain loyal opposition in reguard to political issues.

Merry Christmas to you as well!



Lepanto

That lie has been debunked at T.H. Many times and it's beneath the dignity of the conservatives to keep giving it credence.

See:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_alive_baloney. html

Let's start out the year as good Christians and stay alert to lies.

Have a Merry Christmas

Sadly, you are Incorrect
We required the Legislation because those that worship at the god of abortion were letting babies suffer deaths we would not allow animals to suffer. Some brave individuals in the medical profession made us aware of this abomination. An abomination that appeared to have little effect on our President Elect, God help him.

Lepanto
"Date: Dec 24, 2008 - 10:42 AM EST Subject: Ann ...If Donahue is correct, why did the President Bush need to sign a federal law August of 2002 giving live born baby’s federal protection? Facts are very curious things. "

he didn't it was needless legislation just like schaivo

What Should Rick Warren Say?
If Rick Warren were to state that the original Judeo-Christian Bible is the only holy book in America that is the truth and the way to the Kingdom of Heaven and that the U.S. Constitution is based on the laws of the Bible which was the intent of our Framers who most were God-fearing men who intentionally wrote the laws to protect American citizens from tyranny and it is the duty of the U.S. President and the U.S. government to follow the supreme laws of the land so Americans will continue to be blessed by God and remain victorious over America's enemies. Guess what would happen - Warren probably would be replaced, so I doubt that anyone will hear anything close to this message - let alone that American should not fund abortions with taxpayers money nor waste taxpayers money discussing same sex which is a moral issue, not a political issue, while millions are being made homeless, jobless, and committing suicide because of the economic crisis caused by CEOs and government persons starting at the top which needs to be cleaned up and those persons held accountable. For sure, Warren would be thrown off of the stage - so politically correct people shall always compromise - and compromise means you're lukewarm and Jesus said that he'll spit you out of his mouth if you're lukewarm which is the epitome of this entire theatrical planned agenda in my opinion and has nothing to do with promoting Judeo-Christians, but pacify the conservative Christians for now.

Warren Is a Sell-out
Rick Warren's behavior appears less that of a holy man and more that a self-absorbed egomaniac seeking fame amongst the elite. Millions of murdered unborn children scream at the hypocrisy of his behavior.

Anne

I hope you have a Merry Christmas, really. There are more things to be thankful for than to be so angry about. Tell me this video doesn't make one cheerful?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48

daft: You call, "At least during the

Christmas season can you put away the lies?" positive?

It's nothing more than a stupid, meaningless, empty allegation... which is pretty much all YOU are... stupid, meaningless, and empty.

IF you had an ounce of substance, you'd be ABLE to state what you allege is a lie, AND explain how or why it's a lie.

But you can't! So, just go away. You take up way too much bandwidth making a complete FOOL of yourself.


Ann & Live Born Babies
Ann, you are correct that Obama voted to kill live born babies after failed abortions. His campaign apologized for calling the pro-life group liars who raised this issue. Why they apologized was because Obama is on record as an Illinois Senator saying he did not wish a mother’s decision to be second-guessed were why he refused to support the Live Born legislation. He never said anything about existing laws. What Mr. Donahue is parroting you is what Obama’s campaign used to spin the issue.

If Donahue is correct, why did the President Bush need to sign a federal law August of 2002 giving live born baby’s federal protection? Facts are very curious things.

Anne
Merry Christmas.

Cal Thomas illuminated the wole issue with the phrase "all politicians want the cover of religion...". Exactly. Obama has been quite successful at using his honeymoon to pander to many segmants of the population. I am amazed at how many folks believe only what they want to hear, and totally ignore diametric statements to other groups. I wonder just how long he can keep this up. Hopefully, less than 4 years.

Excellent article
But, since Warren is known to be a supporter of global-governance (which is why 0blahma chose him in the first place), the chance that he will call-out 0blahma as Nathan did David is....NIL.

Warren's a Prophet
Warren's support of Prop 8 and the questions he asked during the Saddlback debate prove to me he is a prophet. His relationship with the Pesident Elect is reflective of scripture in that Jesus did not always hang out with those that agreed with him. Cal's advice is excellent because all of us are receptive to flattery.

Anne

Your demands on any action on my part are silly. I've made a concerted effort to stay positive and so won't have a meaningless argument with you.

oh daft: Good grief! Enough out of you!

How about, rather than just some stupid post, "At least during the Christmas season can you put away the lies?" to say EXACTLY what "lie" you're accusing me of, and PROVE it a lie?



We'll all be waiting.... :-)

Otherwise, add something worthwhile to the thread... for once, or shut up!



Rev. Warren walks a very thin line....

"How many modern preachers would confront (as Nathan's confrontation to David) a president like that? Probably not many if they wanted to maintain access."

Both Thomas and Farah make excellent points, and supported them very well.

The big question is the "motives" for Rev. Warren (perhaps) wanting to maintain access to Obama. One would hope it's so that he may have a "Nathan" impact on Obama.

However, with Bozo Obama's record of throwing people "under the bus," it's not likely that even Rev. Warren will have a positive effect on Obama.

However, we just have to remember that it's THROUGH GOD, THAT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Anne
At least during the Christmas season can you put away the lies?

Anne
"Date: Dec 24, 2008 - 9:09 AM EST It's MORE than the gay issue!

..."Evil?

...In fact, as a state legislator in Illinois, he pushed a law that would require the killing of babies born alive after unsuccessful abortions..."

This is a lie plain and simple. It is already against the law to kill not just babies but all humans

"... You know he will also open the floodgates to the use of U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund abortion overseas through groups like Planned Parenthood and agencies such as the United Nations Population Fund.,,"

all this other stuff means you better compromise and cut a workable deal for all. You lost in the marketplace of ideas and now want to win through laws...
"I call that evil."

It's MORE than the gay issue!

Joseph Farah's open letter to Warren.

"I understand you want this to be a time of "healing" for our nation. I understand you consider Obama to be your "friend." I understand your desire to bring "civility" to our society.

"However, when we read the Bible, we see there are times for men of God to stand up to leaders, like Nathan did to King David, and confront them with the absolute truth of God's word and His laws. That's what all Christians should do when confronted with leaders embracing evil.

"Evil?

"That's a strong word.

"But I use it advisedly.

"Let's focus on just one of Obama's evil policies, though there are dozens more we should consider.

"Barack Obama is opposed to any and all restrictions on the killing of unborn children and has pledged to work against the few that remain. In fact, as a state legislator in Illinois, he pushed a law that would require the killing of babies born alive after unsuccessful abortions. You know he will also open the floodgates to the use of U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund abortion overseas through groups like Planned Parenthood and agencies such as the United Nations Population Fund. You should note the U.N. supports forced abortions and sterilizations in China. He has even promised to sign into law the Freedom of Choice Act, which would make illegal even peaceful efforts to persuade mothers from aborting their babies. In essence, Obama holds and has pledged to enforce, a radical pro-abortion position that will curtail free speech, freedom of religion and ensure that many more innocent lives will be destroyed.

"I call that evil."

Bet God can Hardly wait....
Does anyone think God is waiting with bated breath for the inaugural prayers of pastors Warren or Lowery? I would be extremely surprised to learn that either of these two could voice a prayer capable of ascending past the Capitol dome.

The official prayers of inauguration day will be as perfunctory as the oath of the new President when he swears to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.

doofASS The BABY KILLER: Let the games

begin!

All it took was 13 posts, and typical of the childish, immature, intellectually limited, clinically mad, liberals, here's doofASS accusing a poster of "hate" simply because doofASS didn't agree with him.

Cal Thomas makes some EXCELLENT points for discussion...




A presidential need
Ancient Rome had a tradition in which a very successful general was rewarded with a Triumph. This was a city-wide celebration in which the general was paraded through the streets to be presented to the emperor.

Throughout the parade a slave rode in the chariot beside the triumphant general. His task was to constantly whisper this phrase to the general: "You are mortal and you will die." The Romans deemed this necessary corrective to the natural tendency toward hubris that strikes any powerful person.

Our presidents need a similar service. They have enormous power and are surrounded by a protective security bubble that keeps them isolated from reality. This is a prescription for hubris.

Given his personal history and current actions, I fear that Obama is particularly prone to hubris. I only hope he finds someone who will "speak truth to power" whether it be a minister or some other wise person he trusts.

LHFFAO
Subject: LOL
Can't win; the extremes will still gnash teeth and utter hate. My question is why even have prayers at government events?

Still laughing fat boy?
Lots of people who believe in God do not considering them self's a practicing Christian.
Just because you go around wishing everyone a Merry Christmas, does not make you one either.
God does not favor the Marxist, they have murdered way to many in the name of their religion, which is Marxism, which is your religion.

LMFAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!



robert
"Date: Dec 24, 2008 - 8:19 AM EST Re:PRayer????
Look, this is all a big shoe hype, Obamarxist is no more a Christian than I am ..."

Ahhh my little hate master is up early today. Have a happy Christmas eve

"...As for B. Frank this guy should be given to the Yanimoni and left for their Christmas dinner, he is a blow hard like the rest of them!!! Like I said before this entire lot gets no breaks from me!!!! "

and I wager little robert here calls himself a christian? LMAO

LOL
Can't win; the extremes will still gnash teeth and utter hate. My question is why even have prayers at government events? I mean it was a nice custom in the past but since religious extemists of all ilks are brutalizing the world perhaps it is time to toss this custom. It certainly has not helped the nation in the past eight years and the last "real" christian in the White House, Carter, certainly didn't do the nation any favors either. Just a thought

Re:PRayer????
Look, this is all a big shoe hype, Obamarxist is no more a Christian than I am a resident on the moon!!! Rick Warren may have writen alot of books(I have read all of them) but that is far as it goes-this guy is fake, and should be included in the rest of this hype crap that Obamarxist and the rest of the Obots bring to Washington!!! As for B. Frank this guy should be given to the Yanimoni and left for their Christmas dinner, he is a blow hard like the rest of them!!! Like I said before this entire lot gets no breaks from me!!!!

Lowery Does NOT support Gay Marriage

"The latest, most entertaining episode occured on this evening's 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, on MSNBC. David Shuster discovered that, contrary to his presumption, civil rights pioneer Rev. Joseph Lowery, also on the inaugural program, does not support gay marriage!"
Mark Finkelstein

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=yd4zVrnz6U

SINCE
Politics has become a 'religion' in and of itself and politicians are its congregation, our Constitution should be followed and the religion of 'politics' and its congregation of politicians SHOULD be SEPARATED from our Government.

Warren and Graham, opportunities lost
Because of his having endured 20 years of bogus ministry by Mr. Wright-Wrong, because of his Islamic early schooling in Indonesia and later secular schooling in the US, O has had exactly zero contact with genuine Christian truth. He knows nothing of the biblical nature of Christianity and how to become a follower of Christ Jesus. If Warren knows anything about these things and can lead O to become a biblically defined disciple of Christ, then his developing a relationship with O could be extremely beneficial for our nation. If not, then O will simply use Warren for his own selfish purposes as other presidents used Billy Graham so very often for theirs.

Speaking of Graham, until reading the above, I had forgotten how insightful he was with regard to the extremely powerful deleterious influence pagan "Jews" have on our culture. Just this evening, I read a shocking list of all the many major organizations of enormous national importance that they control to our national destruction. The list also includes the huge number of pagan "Jewish" movie stars who form the backbone of the traitorous group we call the Hollywood Left. Graham and Nixon were correct. What an awful shame they never got a chance to fix the problem using deportation back to the mother country. We would be a much better nation now, and O would still be grifting on the Chicago streets never to be heard from on the national scene.

prayer & politics
well done and thank you
He should not have apologize you can not win with the gay community unless you agree with them

The sodomization of Rick Warren (2)
In other words Warren wants to have it both ways. He claims to be for marriage between a man and a woman, while at the same time he “believes” that “every loving relationship should have equal protection.” Based in the context, I would say without any doubt that Warren is also for marriage among homosexuals.

The question is who is the true Warren? The one who voted for Prop. 8 or the one who supports “all” loving relationships?

At the end of the testimony, Melissa said :

“Brothers and sisters the choice is ours now. We have the world's attention. We have the capability to create change, awesome change in this world, but before we change minds we must change hearts. Sure, there are plenty of hateful people who will always hold on to their bigotry like a child to a blanket. But there are also good people out there, Christian and otherwise that are beginning to listen. They don't hate us, they fear change. Maybe in our anger, as we consider marches and boycotts, perhaps we can consider stretching out our hands. Maybe instead of marching on his church, we can show up en mass and volunteer for one of the many organizations affiliated with his church that work for HIV/AIDS causes all around the world. Maybe if they get to know us, they wont fear us. I know, call me a dreamer, but I feel a new era is upon us.”

What she is saying is that Christians are the haters and bigots and that sodomites are the agents of an awesome change in this world. According to her, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not relevant anymore, we do not need the bible or any Christian pastor, after all, all Christians are “gay-haters.”

What do we need in America? We need more “John the Baptist” ministers who will not compromise the truth of the Gospel; Rick Warren should pay attention.

The sodomization of Rick Warren (1)
When I heard that Obama chose Rich Warren to be one of the pastors to give the blessing on Obama’s inauguration, I took it with suspicious. The issue is how a modern evangelical pastor like Warren is going to elaborate his prayer for someone who is for killing the unborn and declared his firm support of the sodomite agenda?

It is very well known that Warren is not the traditional evangelical pastor who preaches the biblical message of sin, repentance and salvation through Jesus Christ. He is more “sophisticated,” “diverse” and “conciliatory.” As Cal Thomas reported in his article, Warren surrendered to the homosexual spell.

The homosexual website “Human Rights Campaign” reports the testimony of Melissa Etheridge and her conversation with Warren:

“On the day of the conference I received a call from Pastor Rick, and before I could say anything, he told me what a fan he was. He had most of my albums from the very first one. What? This didn't sound like a gay hater, much less a preacher. He explained in very thoughtful words that as a Christian he believed in equal rights for everyone. He believed every loving relationship should have equal protection. He struggled with proposition 8 because he didn't want to see marriage redefined as anything other than between a man and a woman. He said he regretted his choice of words in his video message to his congregation about proposition 8 when he mentioned pedophiles and those who commit incest. He said that in no way, is that how he thought about gays.”

I am not surprised by the attitude and propaganda of homosexuals; however, if Melissa’s testimony is true, then Rick Warren is fooling all serious Christians and playing with fire. In other words, Rick Warren is another religious figure that cowardly decided to be in good terms with radical sodomites while betraying his mission as Christian minister.

Better to back off

The fact that Pastor Rick Warren has even agreed to give the inaugural prayer for Barack Hussein Obama shows Warren has already compromised his stand on abortion and same-sex couplings. And therefore compromised his ministry.

PASTOR WARREN
I am a member of Saddleback Church. Pastor Warren is the real deal. He is also not above human failings. We pray for him. The Lord has given Rick many gifts. His heart is in the right place, and we pray constantly that he will continue to glorify God in all he does. He will make mistakes. He doesn't hold himself up above anyone. He as a true servant spirit.

We are fortunate to have him as our Pastor. God Bless You Rick.

Cal: Keep Rick in your prayers.

Rick Warren, Hero
Pastor Warren made it possible for McCain to shine so brightly--I thought the senator from AZ had clinched the election. It was truly a great moment for John McCain; he did himself proud and did the country proud.

But History has a mind of its own.

Don't worry, Cal, Rick Warren has got his stuff together as few have ever gotten it together; I say this as a believer in the Faith of our Holy Father.

I worry much more about the self-absorption that is killing my co-workers--with their credit card debt averaging nine grand.

As for Pastor Graham, that info came as a bit of a shock to me.

Certainly it taints the Reverend's reputation. Our Holy Father would never say anything like that or think anything like that.

Pettyness
The Bible would describe this as Gagging at a gnat and swallowing a Camel. Other descriptions would be Knitpicking,trivial, mean spirited, small mindness.

All of us can only hope
The author goes directly to point.

I hope Mr. Warren remembers the tenets of faith rather than the immediate politics.
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