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Thursday, February 28, 2008
Cal  Thomas :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hit the Road, Jack
by Cal Thomas
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The argument one hears most often for not enforcing illegal immigration laws is that we can't deport the estimated 12 million people already in this country. It just isn't physically, tactically or politically possible, say people who think this way.

Maybe not, but authorities can start with people who not only broke laws to get here, but are breaking more laws now that they are here.

Virginia's Republican Attorney General, Robert McDonnell, is beginning the deportation process with a class of people not even the most vehemently pro-immigrant activist should defend. They are sex offenders and McDonnell, working in cooperation with the Virginia State Police and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, has identified 171 people who have been convicted of sex crimes. Some are illegal aliens, others have legal status, but their convictions violate the conditional terms of their residency and make them subject to deportation.

In a telephone interview from Richmond, McDonnell told me that because federal statutes have pre-empted what states can do on most immigration issues, Virginia had to look for ways to initiate deportation of criminal sex offenders while working with the federal government. Asked whether the targeting of illegal alien sex offenders is the first step toward going after other criminal aliens, McDonnell said, "We're planning to do all of them. My position is that criminal illegal aliens or criminal aliens have forfeited their right to be in the country. There is broad agreement, regardless of which side people are on in the illegal immigration debate, that the criminal alien should be detained and deported."

In addition to checking on the immigration status of everyone released from a Virginia prison, McDonnell says people convicted of crimes will now be investigated for their residency status before they are locked up, possibly allowing the federal government to deport them prior to their serving all of their sentence.

One northern Virginia jurisdiction with a high illegal alien population is the city of Manassas. In response to intense citizen complaints, the Manassas City Council has authorized local police to begin checking the immigration status of people they arrest for any crime. If they find the suspects are in the country illegally, they are now authorized to begin deportation proceedings. On March 3, neighboring Prince William County will begin implementing a similar program to crackdown on illegals. These two jurisdictions are in sync with what McDonnell is now doing statewide.

Immigrant rights leader Ricardo Juarez of Mexicans Without Borders (a name that tells you something about his goal) is quoted in The Washington Examiner newspaper as saying, "This policy will only make the situation worse and will drive people out." Precisely. That is the intent of the program; to drive criminal illegal aliens out, preferably back to where they came from and especially if they have twice violated our laws.

Not all of the Virginia sex offenders fit the demographic stereotype. Yes, most are from Mexico, or Central and South American countries, but quite a few are from other nations, including Ethiopia, India, Iran, Thailand, even Scotland. So this is not about ethnicity. It is about breaking the law.

The issue of illegal immigration and most especially that of criminal aliens should be a major issue in the presidential campaign. It is bad enough when immigration activists countenance the breaking of our laws and defend people who do it; it is something else when they attempt to defend sex offenders and others who have broken other laws while here.

There is no right to come to America, but there is an obligation to obey the same laws everyone else has to obey or suffer the consequences. Virginia and at least two of its jurisdictions are onto something. Other states and localities might wish to consider a similar approach.

The federal government seems to be getting the message. Perhaps shamed by Virginia, immigration officials, according to the Washington Post, are now actively "scouring jails and courts nationwide" to identify immigrants who qualify for deportation. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) reports that in a 12-month period ending last Sept. 30, "it placed 164,000 criminals in deportation proceedings," an increase from the 64,000 the agency identified and placed in deportation proceedings the previous year. ICE "estimates the number will rise to 200,000 this year."

It's a start.

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About The Author
Cal Thomas is co-author (with Bob Beckel) of the book, "Common Ground: How to Stop the Partisan War That is Destroying America".
 
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Julia Tuttle sex offenders
Much publicity has surrounded the plight of the homeless sex offenders in Dade County. But what no one is talking about is the majority of registered sex offenders in Dade County in housing or without are illegal criminal aliens.
The debate as to what to do with these men is obvious, but it doesnt seem the Law Enforcement agencies (ICE) we pay alot of money to are stepping up to the plate.Technically these men do not belong on US soil, so why are we having a discussion as to where to house them? This is insane and as a taxpayer and parent I am not forfieting one foot of residency laws until the Federal Government does what its getting paid to do.

Misleading facts
The Arizona Republic ran an article a few days ago on its frong page claiming that illegal aliens commits crimes in proportion to their numbers in the community in Maricopa County, Arizona (10% of jail bookings/10% of the population). The reporter claimed that illegals obey the law as well as legal citizens do and that we xenophobes should stop villifying them.

Trouble was, the reporter was lying. The reporter chose to use statistics over a timespan in which the only admitted illegals were counted. What the reporter didn't tell the readers is that the Sheriff's Office had released data beginning from last April when they began verifying immigration status. Guess what? 25% of bookings into the Maricopa County Jail were illegals. Honest mistake? I don't think so.

Why not try a different tack?
Why not just join countries like this: http://yessy.com/quadzool/index.html?i=24073&s=2wwd42555eo u2vy5kuyka145 . Then the problem will be solved!

Akagi and illegal aliens

No matter what YOU say, there are areas in this country where arrested persons who cannot/won't provide ID or those with an ID that states clearly illegal status on US soil get deported in max. 30 days.

Believe it or not - I don't care. I'm so glad to hear that elsewhere in the country same tactics are being deployed.

Furthermore, nobody asks immigrants (legal immigrants, mind you) to speak the language on day one, nor on day 365. But when their children speak perfect (American) English and they rely on their children to do any kind of business ... well, it might be past time to learn the language.

This is my 2nd full year in US (after 4 on L1A visa with interruptions, now with green card) and, as zedsmom tried to tell you, I'm actually much more vocal and pi**ed off about illegal immigrants than any American I know - and quite a few of them are conservative. You know, it's like waiting in a queue in a bank on Friday afternoon and somebody jumps the line because they think they are special - whatever their excuse, I don't care if they will deliver baby on the bank floor in next 10 minutes to tell you the truth.

And as far as Americans learning other languages, why would they? I'm sure that those who willingly emigrate to other countries do learn it even in advance, before leaving. Those who work elsewhere because of high skills ... well, whoever asked them to come will provide translators if necessary.

Criminal illegal aliens
is redundant.

The quick and painless way to get rid of them is to make a valid birth certificate and Social Security Number a requirement for anyone seeking a job or drivers license. No job, no car, they'll leave.

This won't get all of them, but it'll cut the number down so we can have a bit of breathing room to figure how to get the rest of them back where they came from.

And as for them being angry, etc., just remember that they don't vote. (Except maybe here in New Jersey, the poster child of corrupt government.)

To Hell with the Fed.
If the Fed wants to get in the way of getting the illegals out of this country then tell the Feds where to get off. They are the servant of the States and not the other way around. It's time the States restored to themselves the power the Constitution gives them. Bush and his band of mindless morons who think they have supreme power should be dealt with in a way that all traitors deserve.

For starters
For starters, we can deport the illegals who are already being detained, fed, etc, etc in our correction facilities. That should keep officials busy for the first couple of years. And should ease your mind about how to take care of them, since we are already doing that. Then we can start deporting them as they get arrested. Of course it doesn't resolve the problem immediately, but it is a start, and it would get the word out to others who are already here illegally as well as those thinking about coming here. The notion that we should do nothing if the problem won't be fixed immediately is insane. We don't catch all the pedophiles or murderers out there either. That doesn't mean we should just stop trying.

Good plan
Fairness:

"First, get our troops the hell out of Iraq (another topic), bring them back and send them out across the country with branding irons looking for really easily found invaders. Each one caught would be branded with a date thirty days in the future."

Only that it would be illegal as a violation of Posse Comitatus but also various parts of the Constitution...due process, cruel and unusual punishment and on and on.

And Neal..50 years...okay...50 years...that would mean you would have to deport 400,000..almost 7 times what the US deports now, but since 1 million enter each year and 200,000 leave or die on their own and another almost 200,000 become normalized, that means an extra 600,000 enter each year, so to remove all illegals in the US in 50 years, you would have to deport 1 million a year. You think this is possible? How much would it cost to find, detain, feed and cloth, give medical care and go through the due process cost to deport 1 million people? How do you plan to find 1 million illegals every year? Round up every "foreign looking" person you see?

Simple, fool-proof soution!
As a non-compassionate conservative, I have the thirty day solution to the illegal invader problem. It is really so simple. First, get our troops the hell out of Iraq (another topic), bring them back and send them out across the country with branding irons looking for really easily found invaders. Each one caught would be branded with a date thirty days in the future. It would be made clear to the invader that if caught in the U.S. after the date branded on him/her, very unpleasant physical actions would be taken. You can guess what my action would be, but since I am perhaps somewhat compassionate, I would either have the invader enjoy waterboarding or remove a digit or two or three (without pain killer). I would broadcast the first punishment on every TV and radio station in prime time. The rest of the invaders would run for the border like cockroaches when the lights go on. Naturally, this will never happen because we are a weak, cowardly people that deserve to, and certainly will, go down the toilet of history.

It’s a good start…for sure…but...

It may take fifty years to deport them all, that’s fine. However, we could speed things up a little and get more to go home, and do it the right way by saying; “If you stay and are eventually deported, you will never be able to come back legally.”


Akagi - Languages
Your question as to what languages I speak is diversionary. I speak Spanish and French and can read basic Russian. With a Spanish and French understanding, I can hobble through Portuguese and Italian. I have taught a Spanish emersion class. I will tell you that teaching math in Spanish is a 'itch. My friend Sandra Frost, complete with a high school diploma married her high school sweetheart. His job took him to France. She learned French, although she never took a class in it in high school.

Akagi - Your last line
Your last line referencing Americans in the third person is interesting. I won't ask about your background but will give you, another, personal story. My husband is from South America. His surname is not Spanish as his ancestors were missionaries. He came here legally. He served in the US Army and, later, in the Navy as a SEAL. He became a citizen. He got a Ph.D. He speaks English fluently and without any trace of an accent. He says he understands fully why people would want to come here. However, he is adamantly against illegal immigration. It is akin to stealing something. You don't value that which you have not worked for as much as that for which you have worked hard.

Languages
No Zedsmom, you do.

KATZ claimed his all so smart legal stock of European heritage could communicate in English..well as we know before 1924 there was no such thing as an illegal European alien, so the legal status is besides the point.

If KATZ was a legal resident of Taiwan...rural Tainan county someplace, would he be speaking Taiwanese or Mandarin well in the first two weeks say? I'd say no.

So Zed, just curious how many languages can you speak...a solid command of any besides English?




McCain-Kennedy wasn't just amnesty
I hope everyone remembers the bill also included a great number of criminals (felons included)that would be allowed to stay in the U.S. Remember also, the provisions for Social Security, DREAM Act, etc. Look up the proposed bill for all the entitlements of illegals. I won't forget and will not vote for McCain for president or senator. I have told his office that I will oppose Mr. McCain for his policy of liberalism. It reminds me Barry Goldwater (the seat that McCain now occupies) in his later years. Let us hope for better candidates for national office real soon.

No, Akagi
You are even further off point.
Your first assumption is that the person dropped into a foreign country is there legally.
Your second assumption is that the person there legally intends to stay there and feels the need to assimilate. If, say, I intended to move to France or Russia or Italy, I would work to master the language and be part of the country I decided to adopt and have adopt me.
Legal immigrants here get driver's licenses without problems. I know a number of them. I have driven through Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. Guess what?! I was there LEGALLY.
The point of difference is between legal and illegal.

Today's news - No se puede!
The "virtual" fence, to replace sections of the real fence, has been put on hold.
While our opinions deal with people coming across the border, don't lose sight of the drugs. Don't lose sight of animal smuggling. Don't lose sight of Mexican Federales crossing into our country and committing violent acts. Don't lose sight of the escalating violence along the border. Don't lose sight of the U.S. Attorney hiding evidence from the two Border Patrol agents' attorneys. Don't lose sight of the reason why citizens, and not political parties, are upset by the porous border. "Vote early; vote often."

No
No, Zedsmom:

Katz, claimed his European stock was so smart they could communicate in English, okay granted. I just am curious how fast he'd learn Taiwanese or Mandarin if I left him in Hsueh Chia? Think he could speak it on day one? Or day 30 or day 365? day 3650...curious is all. Notice I didn't make it easy letting him stroll around Taipei or Kaohsiung since I know from experience many of his comrades living there never learn much more than "wo yao he pi jiu."

I know a Ph.D. in Taipei, American, teaches as a "adjunct professor" at a university in the Taipei area. Speaks very little Chinese--seems he thinks it is too hard. He drives the streets of Taiwan with a legal Taiwan driver's license without the ability to read...haven't heard of any nasty accidents on his behalf. It seems Americans demand assimilation in the US by foreigners, but don't return the favor when you venture outside your own shores.






Dave - cold, hard truth
Maybe a lawsuit is just what is needed; and, I do not promote suits. It would be interesting to see how a court would decide on a suit filed by the employer of illegals or by an illegal. One thing you can be sure of, there will be no illegals on the jury.

Rowly and bust in Calif.
Yes, Rowly, I was agreeing with you. I can understand wanting to be here; I just can't tolerate getting here illegally.
Today there was an ICE bust in Calif. The investigation of one alien smuggling ring took three years. One ring was bringing in 500-600 illegal aliens a year.
And, Akagi, being dropped in a foreign country is different that intentionally sneaking into a foreign country. That argument is a non-sequitur. I am tired of our immigration policy being dictated from La Ciudad de Mexico. Try to cross the southern border of Mexico into Mexico. However, go to a middle eastern country and you can easily get documentation from Mexico for the purpose of crossing our border. The latter even makes the news from time to time.
The labor is not "cheap". We pay for it dearly in many ways every day. Each and every taxpayer in this country pays for this "cheap" labor. And, as Arizona showed us, the jobs can be filled.
If you report employers who hire illegals to the IRS, nothing happens. If you report them to ICE, something may happen in your lifetime. More states should enforce laws available to them.

Justify?
Justify green cards? What do you mean by that?

Legally, you probably have the right to not hire a company that has green card holders on staff, but if you as an employer had a US citizen only policy, except for very few exceptions you would be open to legal action by the DOJ as well as civil action by the person you refused to hire.




COLD HARD TRUTH
It WAS NOT "cheap labor", at least not for ME. I contacted three (3) contractors for bid, they were all within $250-$300. So, I I contracted with the one who originally built my house.

What about the other two? I lateer learned that one employed some anglos and some Mexicans, one one employed only US citizens. Had I known that beforehand, I would have contracted with the one who only employs citizens.

Now, when I want something done, I "incorrectly" ask if the workers are aliens. No answer - no contract! Attempt to justify "green cards" - no contract!

No, I did NOT hire cheap labor and I did NOT benefit from cheap labor.

Texas Primary--Payback Time
For all of you voting in the Texas primary, here's your chance for some Illegal Alien Payback:

Proposition 1 - Immigration: Federal, state and local officials should be required to enforce U.S. immigration laws in order to secure our borders.

Proposition 2 - Photo ID: The Texas Legislature should make it a priority to protect the integrity of our election process by enacting legislation that requires voters to provide valid photo identification in order to cast a ballot in any and all elections conducted in the State of Texas.


Now for reality
KATZ:

How wrong can you be on so many things. A few examples of your lunacy.

"I'm tired of hearing that the illegal aliens cannot be deported. Of course they can. One could start by looking at the pro-immigration rallies where Mexican flags are being waved."

Yes, you can but how long do you expect it to take. At current rates it will take 312 years (longer than almost every single dynasty of China). Even if the US gets to 200,000 per year it would still take 200 years..assuming not a single new illegal alien enters the US and those deported are all illegals and not also permanent residents included.

"The early European immigrants did not sneak into the country and refuse to assimilate."

Until 1882 there was no such thing as an illegal alien so no one had to sneak in and the law in 1882 was only directed to the Chinese. European immigration to the US was unrestricted until 1924 and even then northern Europe still have quota numbers that allowed for de facto open borders for them. Hispanics assimilate no slower than immigrants before them.

"They were even smart enough to learn to speak English!"

How smart are you if I left you in Hsueh Chia, Tainan County that you'd speak Mandarin or Taiyu on day one or day 30 or day 365 or day 3650?

"The Constitutional rights of the people belong to the American people, not citizens of another nation."

Outside of a few exceptions, the rights guranteed by the Constitution extend to all persons in the US--citizen, legal non-citizen, visitor, illegal, all of them.





Akaqi
Let's normalize relations with 20 million.Lets give them everything they want.If not,they will DEMAND it.They will take to the streets with their Mexican flags and banners.There will be pandemonium.If that doesn't work they will say"let's show them we mean business".You have several thousand angry illegals,with nothing to lose,probably armed and what will you do? They will have a work stoppage and the economy will collapse in the city where it happens. If that doesn't work,remember Watts? That will look like a cakewalk.
There's something about non-white folks.When they believe in something,they will always "take to the streets" to prove it.Maybe it will be peaceful.I don't think so.

Voter Fraud
For anyone living in TEXAS, go to http://www.dewhurst.org and sign the petition to assist David Dewhurst in getting a new state law requiring Photo ID to register and vote.

With enough signaturtes, ever the liberals will feel compelled to get behind this act.

Cheap = Cheap
Dave:
Sorry to hear about your experience with the Mexican, ergo, "cheap" labor.

I've had neighbors experience similiar problems. They pay for cheap labor and get cheap results. I had a friend that had to have a particular job accomplished 3 times!

I've got new siding going up on my house right now. I made it clear to the contractor I don't want any cheap and/or illegal labor anywhere near my home.

They are ALL criminals
1st, of course, they are here illegal. Some are here with "green cards" but they still engage in criminal acts.

EXAMPLE, couple of years ago, I hired a contractor to add a carport to my home. I was shocked they were ALL Mexicans - many didn't speak a word of English. A few days after they left, I ralized my Sears battery charger (the big one costing over $200) was gone. I called the contractor. He assured me they were all here legally and were honest & hard-working. I live on a farm and NO ONE had been on the place during the time those workers were here. As time passed, I realized a lot of stuff had "disappeared" (stuff valued almost $500). To top things off, I am still finding bottles, cans, other trash they left behind for me.

I could tell lots of stories, but it will suffice to say I no longer trust ANY Hispanic.

As for deportation, OK & AZ has set an example for the rest of us. Require proof of citizenship or legal status to apply for any benefit (job, drivers license, food stamp, housing, welfare, etc., and BIG fines for those who employ illegals. Large numbers are self-deporting from OK & AZ - most of them are coming to Texas or going to CA.

Cut off the freebies, heavily fine & punish those who break law by hiring illegals, and those people will self-deport.


Fed Up
I'm tired of hearing that the illegal aliens cannot be deported. Of course they can. One could start by looking at the pro-immigration rallies where Mexican flags are being waved. I am tired of hearing about deportation 'breaking up families.' Deportation is not breaking up families; the criminals who choose to besiege this nation illegally are doing this to themselves, and they are not teaching their children a particularly good lesson, either.
I am tired of hearing that the workforce is inadequate to sustain the American economy. No is isn't. We have people drawing welfare payments all over the country. These folks can 'do the job Americans don't want to do' or they can go hungry. I am also tired of hearing that 'we are a nation of immigrants.' The early European immigrants did not sneak into the country and refuse to assimilate. They were even smart enough to learn to speak English! They did not come to this country seeking handouts or sneering at the host nation. There is a big difference between then and now. And I have really had my fill of the 'rights' of these immigrants. Realistically, what 'rights' do these people have? The Constitutional rights of the people belong to the American people, not citizens of another nation. I think that the American people have a right to know who is in the country, they have a right to a sovreign nation, and they have a right to protect the nation against illegal invasion.

Rowly
What should happen is 1) You secure the borders so this doesn't again and 2) You will eventually like it or not have to normalize a good number of the 20 million in the US.




Akaqi
It is better than doing what is being done.Maybe you agree with lawlessness.I do not.Something must be done because they are CRIMINALS.They broke the law simply by being here.You don't just throw up you hands and give in to people who will eventually bleed us dry. They have absolutely no right to ANYTHING this country has to offer.

Oklahoma Law
The State of Oklahoma passed an excellent law that resulted in illegal aliens deporting themselves. The law went after employers and landlords who knowingly hired or rented to illegal aliens. The demand for illegal labor dropped drastically and several illegals left the State. The Bleeding-Heart Leftist TV documentary against the law portrayed a poor Mexican family that did not feel welcomed any more and thus was going back to Mexico.

We need more laws like this.

No demand mean no work. No work means no money. No money means no illegal aliens.

zedsmom
Are you agreeing with me?If not reread my post.I think we are saying the same thing.

NAU Farce
For the black helicopter crowd, a link for you.

http://americas.irc-online.org/am/5023


Rowly
How many? At current rate it would take you 312 years. At 200,000, 200 yerars. At 500,000 40 years. And this assume not a single person ever gets into the US illegally alone.

In reality, you would have to deport 600,000 a year just to keep the illegal population stable. To reduce the number in a reasonable amount of time...say 10 years you would have to deport 2.6 million per year--that is about 217,000 a month. This of course doesn't count the numbers you deport who are here legally, so the true numbers would be far higher. You think the US can detain and deport 2.6 million a year? I don't. It can't even issue passports in a timely manner or know that a package sent to Taiwan, ROC shouldn't be sent to the PRC instead.


Rowly
I don't blame them for wanting to come here. I simply think that we ought to know who is in our country and that we all have the same financial obligations to our country before we make use of what our country has to offer.
As I just pointed out about the two Syrians arrested, there are crime problems, also. While the argument is made that crime is committed by citizens or legal residents here, one less crime is one less crime. For example, the school bus that was hit last week, in which wreck four children died. The driver was not only an illegal alien but, also, one with a previous driving infraction. As a matter of fact, she and another illegal alien were using the same stolen identity.

Immigration
The only people here who want amensty is big business and the government is run by Wall Street. They don't care about the illegals and this phony crap about not separating families. If the candidates had such compassion they wouldn't have let them be exploited for low wages all these years. And the greaseball Fox would have created decent paying jobs. If all these people had demoonstated and fought in Mexico like they do here they wouldn't have had to come here. Let them straighten up their own country instead of destroying America.
But big business is not the only reason. The elites want the NAU and this is a step towards that. They want our guns. They have signed with Canada that their army can help our army with disturbances. Like the ones that might arise when we have to go to the streets to save our country.

Immigration
Haven't you guys heard ? We do have a fence . A virtual fence. We can spot the illegals and even see if they are carrying knapsacks. Unfortunately, since most of the Border Guards have been pulled off the border all they can do is say,"yup there they are. Yup, there they go.The candidates say that what we all want is the border sealed. We are not concerned about amnesty and only 23% of the country wants amnesty. With the rate they are coming across the border and the rate they have babies we will soon be the minority. Ca is going broke. And the Mexican politicians there say they will take over Ca. They refuse to realize that if they took over Ca their corrupt leaders would run it. And Fox and Calderone would still treat them the way they treat them in Mexico. Why don't they fight in their own country for decent paying jobs. Why do they let Fox and Calderone give them this crap about whereever there is Mexican there is Mexico.As if these two upstanding people ever did anything for them in Mexico besides letting American companies come in and pay them slaves wages.
Calderone and Fox are their enemies, not us.
As for deporting the criminals...they are looking forward to it. They will only be in Mexico a couple days and be right back here on our streets

Akagi - Assumptions
How much does it cost to provide social services and medical services now? I did not suggest rounding anyone up; but, it does present an interesting question as to which costs this country more. My brother, a nurse, had to leave a hospital that was closing in California. It is not the only hospital going under due to uninsured or non-paying patients. He said it was just as well as he was tired of delivering "anchor" babies.
I don't want my taxes raised to support non-taxpaying adults. It is that simple.
You seem to assume that the only people coming across the border are from south of the border. How about the two young men arrested in North Carolina for terrorist activities about six months ago? They were from Syria and came across the (can I say it?) Mexican border. Were they the only two in 12 to 20+ million?

Akaqi
You would not arrest 12 million at once. If a few are arrested daily in each state,processed and deported,in a few months you would see a difference. No one blames them for coming here and they do work hard. For less money than citizens will do the same job for.It is our government's fault that they are still coming.No argument anyone can give can make it right to have millions of people we know nothing about freely roaming the streets.When they commit a crime,how can they be found when we have no information on them? The government knows everything about you. How much money you make,where you work,your spouse's name,your children's name,your SS number,of course. Fail to pay your taxes and you will be in court.
The government does nothing because Democrats want the vote,Republicans want cheap labor and G.Bush wants Globalization,free trade and eventually One World Government.

Akqui - TIN
Some illegal immigrants pay taxes. Not the majority. I have had a TIN for my business. The questions that must be answered to obtain one tells me that illegal aliens getting a TIN have to lie on their application for the number. Some steal identities, which causes the citizen to have to answer to the IRS about 1099's for jobs they didn't hold and for which the IRS thinks taxes are due. That is an experience my husband has been through. Most don't pay taxes. If you are wealthy and generous of spirit and wallet, you would be welcomed to adopt an illegal and pay his or her back taxes. I object to having services milked by those who do not pay into the system.

Great..happy for you
First, spell my name right.

Second, why is this even germane? "I practiced law for well over thirty years."

Do illegals have due process in regards to deportation hearings or not? Yes they do. Can they appeal decisions of the immigration judge or not? Yes they can. care to give me an estimate how long it would take you to deport 20 million people? Care to tell me how much it would cost to detain them for years while their cases worked through the system?

What is 200,000 (if they are lucky) into 20 million?

And for you lethrneck:

"No matter how long it takes we must get started so that legal quotas will be available for decent aliens who apply in the correct and legal manner can gain access to citizenship in the U.S."

At current rates about 300 years or so if no new ones ever enter...they may get the rate down to 200 years if they are lucky. Of course in reality the numbers of illegals would still grow by 500,000 or so even if they get up to 200,000 deportations.

And there is a legal immigration system in place, just most Mexicans have little hope of being able to enter legally--so in a choice of not being able to provide for themselves or their family (partly as a result of NAFTA), they pick entering the US illegally over starving in rural Mexico.

Illiegal immigant count mis-stated
We continually hear the 12 million illegal immigrant number but that is completely false. Common sense would lead to the conclusion that based on the net number of illegals entering every day, that number is mis-stated -- probably on purpose. Bear Stearns and the attorney general of California agree the number is north of 20 million. For your info, the following is a well researched website that updates the numbers in real time and it includes estimates of the costs of our "compassionate" open borders policy.

http://immigrationcounters.com/

Thought you might want this info.


Round them up
"As to arresting them or rounding them up, what makes you think it can't be done."

Because you don't have the space to house 12 million people, because you don't have the money to feed, house, give medical care to 12 million people. Because they have due process rights and you don't have the courts or the lawyers and judges to deport even a fraction of them.

You wouldn't be allowed to ask anyone their immigration status (as a local police official) for just standing around...oh and many do pay taxes--they use TIN instead of a social. Many own houses and pay property taxes and they pay sales taxes of course.

Now as to the question do they cost more or contribute more, depends how you define your terms and who does the counting.


Akqui - As to Constitutional law
I practiced law for well over thirty years. The majority of it was Constitutional law in the federal courts.

Illegal and criminal aliens
Cal Thomas, as usual, gets it right again. They MUST go if they're illegal or criminal aliens. There is no such thing as it can't be done. Reagan proved that a long time ago when he deported a bunch of illegals.

We MUST start NOW and not wait for someone to take the lead; although, Virginia certainly is beginning to look like a leader in this.

Deport, deport, deport and when the going gets tough, REALLY deport. No matter how long it takes we must get started so that legal quotas will be available for decent aliens who apply in the correct and legal manner can gain access to citizenship in the U.S.

But these arrogant, ignorant and criminal-minded boors from south of our southern borders who are here illegally HAVE TO GO!

And someone has to tell McCain it isn't just securing the borders, which has to be first, but the other half of the equation must be applied: OUT with all illegal and criminal aliens. NOW.

Adios illegal and criminal aliens, it wasn't nice to know you.

Akqui - Time to clue you in
I did not curse or use any profanity. I did not call names. I simply stated the name of a program created under Eisenhower's administration and enforced by that administration. It is a matter of fact. It is a matter of history. You and/or TH may not all like fact or, better yet, history, but it is there, recorded on film, recorded in print, remembered by people who were adults at that time. Okay, today it is Operation Removal of Those Persons Who Got the Backside of Their Upper-Torso Damp While Crossing a River We Can't Mention on the Southern Border of the Western United States. A little long, a little awkward, and, probably, not politically correct enough.

Deportation
When Arizona cracked down and the federal court upheld it, there was a lesson for other states. Crack down on employers. Arizona did, despite the cries and moans of employers. Then, suddenly, they had to admit that there were more legal applicants (including citizens) than they had jobs for. Cut off the social services. Have them undergo background checks for housing, like citizens have to do. You might see "uninforced" deportation. As to arresting them or rounding them up, what makes you think it can't be done. The law hasn't changed since Eisenhower did it even though, politically, it was a lifetime ago. Here you don't have to go look for them; they are standing around everywhere. Look at the names given in drug busts. Look at the names given in DWI (DUI) arrests. And, to dispel another myth, having a driver's license does not mean someone has insurance. I have been in an automobile accident and can prove that. Further, as they don't pay taxes, why should they pay for insurance?
Do I sound mad? Not only has my identity been stolen, my husband's identity been stolen, and my daughter's identity been stolen, but my deceased son's identity has been stolen. You bet I am mad.

Time to clue you in
zedsmom wrote:

"...Free speech? That's what illegals have when they march in our streets and can't be arrested while they curse us and our government. As a citizen, I am not afforded that same right."

You have no rights of free expression here. TH can censor you, delete your posts, ban you all they want..their website, their rules, their right.

You want freedom? Get your own webserver, your own domain, your own website/blog and then you can write anything you want. Well almost since your access to the Internet would still be provided to you by an ISP or telecommunications company via a DSL line or T1 or T3 line, cable, etc, they could still block you if you went too far for them--e.g. Nuremberg Files. I suppose if you wanted almost total freedom you could buy an ISP with a direct link to the backbone of the Internet, but the providers of the backbone could still block you as well but you'd have much more freedom than writing on another's blog. You'd have to go pretty far to get blocked from the backbone. But you have no rights here.




Okay Buck
Buck wrote:

"When the president says it is impossible to deport 12 Million CRIMINALS he is saying he is incompetent in his post."


There are 12-20 million illegals and all of them have due process rights. How long will it take to round up all of them and where will you house them, plan to reopen Tula Lake are we? Who will pay the cost of security at the internment camps, the pay for the guards, the food, medical care, etc? How long will it take the courts to deport them all and how long will it take for the appeals to run out? Where are you going to find the thousands of immigration judges and hundred of thousands of lawyers?

The US deports about 64,000 people per year. It hopes to get the number up to 200,000. At that rate it would take 100 years if not a single new illegal entered the country.

When people like McCain says it is impossible, he is simply stating what rational people understand.

Welcome to the real world.


Posse Comitatus
Buck:

Enforcement of the immigration law is a law enforcement function and thus using the army to do so without consent of Congress would be a violation of Posse Comitatus.

You can use the army to stop the Mexican Army, but not Jose from Oaxaca.


It seems to me
Any person who says the job is just too tough is saying he is incompetent to fill that post.

When the president says it is impossible to deport 12 Million CRIMINALS he is saying he is incompetent in his post.

When the president refuses to address the terrible situation on our Southern Border, he is proving he is incompetent in his post.

Should be #1 issue 2008 President
Illegal immigration should be #1 issue this election year. It is time for us to deal with this problem! The fact that local law enforcement often has their hands tied is insane.

As I said
"Bring home our soldiers from FDR's war with all their weapons and equipment and give them the job. Some can man the border with their tanks, artillery, and helicopters, and the rest can use their trucks to round up the illegal aliens (invaders), and return them to northern Mexico in planes and parachutes."

It would violate US law and the troops from "FDR's War" are there to pursue your interests in the region. The bases in Germany and Italy have been used in the Gulf War and the current Iraq war, used in operations in the Balkans. The ones in the UK used to attack Libya.

Germany serves as a key rear area for the Iraq War (which most of you support) just as Japan did during Korea. Those in Japan are there to project your power into the region, a region whose stability you claim is in your interest. Withdrawing from Korea could very well cause the DPRK (which is paranoid) think you are withdrawing to launch an airwar and attack the ROK or Japan (or perhaps Seattle) first...is that in your interest? And Korea was Truman's War in any event.

And where are you going to deport these illegals from? Because those in the interior of the US have due process rights too and you can't simply summarily deport them.

This is pathetically funny
TH censored the name of Eisenhower's plan! Too funny! Too pathetically PC! It was a name that is recorded in history that is not censored. Free speech? That's what illegals have when they march in our streets and can't be arrested while they curse us and our government. As a citizen, I am not afforded that same right.

Akagi
Posse Comitatus is to prevent military being used against Pivate American Citizens, NOT defending our borders, which is one of the things our military is tasked to do.

Protect The Borders

Get that??

Other Presidents deported illegals
President Hoover and President Eisenhower deported illegal aliens. President Eisenhower's plan was called "Operation Wet****", which would not be politically correct today. But, the plan worked. Reagan's amnesty plan did not work, all illegals did not sign up, and it only encouraged more to come on over.

Illegal Migrants
A good article on an important issue. It really comes down to the individual States doing any thing on the problem. None of the Presidential Candidates believe in doing something about the problem period. All of them will say they will to be elected, but if you look at their positions on illegal immigration; their not concerned.

Leaving
"They're leaving on their own. Of course, open borders advocates told us that wouldn't work."



About 1 million illegals enter the US each year and according to CIS about 200,000 die or leave on their own, and another 100,000 or so become legalized and about 64,000 are deported, so that leaves about 600,000 new illegals each year...so yeah, looks like it is working to me.

The new conservative math: 100-20-10-6=0


And it would be illegal
"I wold take those troops and redeploy every one of them and their equipment on the US border with Mexico."

And such an action would be illegal as it would violate the The Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. 1385)unless you could get Congress to approve and somehow I don't think it would...do you?




Illegals don't pay taxes
I am sick of hearing that illegal aliens are the hardest working among us. What the hell do they think my husband and I did all of our lives - knit? The truth is that they get paid by 1099's so the employers don't withhold taxes. I want the IRS to know everyone in this country as up close and personal as it does my family. If the employers were fined to pay for all back taxes, plus penalty and interest, they might look at it differently.

Lessons learned.
“The argument one hears most often for not enforcing illegal immigration laws is that we can't deport the estimated 12 million people already in this country.”

In 1954 I had a part time job working in an Army-Navy store in California to help pay for college. The store did a land-office business with the migrant farm workers until Eisenhower’s “Operation (name deleted by Townhall)” started. Within three weeks I was out of a job. The clientele just started drifting back to Mexico with very few actual deportations taking place.

I have no doubt that a similar reverse migration would start if we could just get off the dime and do something.

Crimes
"US Government's title 18 says that coming into this country illegally is a felony.
So when he compares illegals to the average American he is assuming that the crime committed to get here is overlooked by all!"

Please cite the exact chapter of title 18 where coming into the US without inspection is a felony as the US doesn't treat it as such but treats it as a civil infraction such as speeding or Jaywalking. What enraged the Hispanics in 2005 so much was plans by the US House to make it a felony, so if it a felony now, why did the House need to pass a new law to make it one? The bill failed.




A few things
"Dry up the jobs: Fine employers of illegals a serious amount of money, jail them for repeat offenses."

Well unless you want to create a true national ID card that can't be faked (e.g. biometrics) I don't see how you'll stop too many hires since illegals can get plenty of the documents in current use and fear of the DOJ and immigrant rights groups suing them stop them from asking too many questions. You can't refuse employment to people because of how they look.


"Change the anchor baby thingy so that only babies born of parents legally here are U. S. citizens."

Unless you plan to amend the constitution or have the Congress pass a law to redefine the 14th more narrowly and have the SCOTUS uphold it and over turn Wong, no chance in hell.



Don't blame all liberals
I have been screaming loud and long about illegals in this country. Seems to me the only ones who want illegals in this country are small business owners and contractors, classic republicans.

Whenever I hear anyone say "they do jobs Americans won't do" I want to scream. The image is of illegals doing stoop labor in agricultural fields. The fact is as soon as they get to this country they head to the cities to make more money with less effort. They are not stupid.

Round them up and send them home.



We don't need no stinking buses
There's a bit of lunacy going on, can anyone explain why we need buses to send illegal South? Where are the buses that brought them North?

As for the cost to our society just keep track of the crimes reported on your local evening news. I'm willing to bet that the percentage of Hispanic names is similar to those in my area, i.e., at least 80%.

Considering the success of Arizona and Oklahoma, I’m giving serious thought to a move to one of them.

THEY CAN BE ROUNDED UP.
Bring home our soldiers from FDR's war with all their weapons and equipment and give them the job. Some can man the border with their tanks, artillery, and helicopters, and the rest can use their trucks to round up the illegal aliens (invaders), and return them to northern Mexico in planes and parachutes.

Immigration
Mr. Thomas: The point of your article is not "It's a start" - It is that THE PEOPLE of that Virginia county had had enough! Your obligation is to congratulate THEM, encourage other CITIZENS, and let us all know how proud you are of us for not giving up or backing down or being intimated by illegitimate laws that protect the criminal and put law abiding residents in jeopardy. We want our streets and towns safe regardless of the criminal's origin.

Shalom

Self Deportation the Answer
Cal,

It's simple. Start enforcing the employment laws per immigration by firing anyone with a "no match" on SS# and fine the employer. Watch how quickly the illegal immigration problem takes care of itself. The American citzenry has allowed the Bush admin a pass on this. When I see left wingers with Impeach Bush bumper stickers, I think, "Yes, but for failure to defend America from invasion as sworn in the oath of office." It is truly mass insanity that the American people have tolerated this from Senor Bush.

Here it is for those who missed it.
Paddy's Parody on Immigration
Posted by mrs paddy on Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:02:57 PM
From Steely Dan "Do it Again"

In the morning they go running
'cross the US southern border
And patrolmen cannot fire
'cause they haven't got no order
And illegals take our IDs
'cause they want to steal our nation
And the highways aren't safer
With illegal infiltration
Send them back, Jack, They're not our friends
Illegals round 'em up 'round
Back, Jack, They're not our friends.

Build a wall and they will climb it
Or they'll pay to have a guide
Don't enforce the law or border
'cause they know just where to hide
Those who hire them are evil
They exploit the poor and yearning
And less honest folk come with them
As we to our doom are learning
Send them back, Jack, They're not our friends
Illegals round em up 'round
Back, Jack, they're not our friends.

Should al Qaeda have a foothold,
And they plan to bring us sorrow
All this time we've been ignoring
Consequences due tomorrow
Congress says just let them jump the queue
And they'll be legal voters
We're the land of milk and honey
And we must not close our borders
Send them Back, Jack, they're not our friends
Illegals round 'em up 'round
Back, Jack, they're not our friends.


Get Them All Out
Right after the criminal illegals are out, next up should be Ricardo Juarez. BTW, all illegal aliens are criminals. I know some are worse than most, but they all need to go. Arizona and Oklahoma get the process started and they're not having to deport anyone. They're leaving on their own. Of course, open borders advocates told us that wouldn't work.

NUTNFINR hits all the important points.

No Brainer
This policy change is a no brainer. Anyone that lives in a jurisdiction which doesn't adopt a similar policy should be demanding to know why their elected officials support illegal sex offenders. You'll have to jump out of the way to avoid the politicians trampling you to change their ways. If people don't speak up they shouldn't expect anything to change.
I can't wait to tell everyone in Illinois that Dick Durbin supports illegal immigrant sex offenders during his re-election campaign. Oh, how I loathe that smug turd. What a great feeling it will be to unseat him.

The Numbers Game
Lolo1 wrote:
"The number is more like 40 million plus and those are just the one's you notice."

You're probably right.
The gov't ALWAYS masks the real pain.
Ex:
- Inflation is a lot more than 2%. But they purposely leave out food and energy costs. They do this because a lot of gov't pensions, contracts, etc, are pegged to inflation.
- Every program ends up costing a heap more.

Rule of thumb: Take gov't numbers and multipy x 3.



12 million?
I question this number and I am sick of hearing media and politicians bauble between 12 to 20 when it suits their purposes.

12 million illegals in a nation of 300 million is like a drop of water in a 5 gallon bucket. You wouldn't even notice it.

The number is more like 40 million plus and those are just the one's you notice.

Get real.

This is my biggest
problem with McCain. He not only pushed for amnesty he has Juan Hernandez, (who worked in the Mexican gov.) working on his team. He is a LIAR, and I have a very hard time getting past that! He has worked in secret with kennedy, la raza and hernandez to forgive the illegals. Four innocent kids in my state were just murdered by an illegal driving a car with an fake licence with a fake name. Get rid of ALL of the illegals. Make it so hard on them they will leave on their own.....NOW!

I will NEVER EVER vote McCain
My hope is that at least with a clear enemy, the McConnels and his ilk in the House will be able to put a clear fight. Jorge Bush started this dyfunctional 'we gotta stand by our man...don't we?' B.S., and McCain will continue it.

I voted Obama in the Texas primary! :0)

Hillary is evil, Obama is dangerous; but McCain is a Trojan Horse.

Good Start
It's clear the Feds aren't interested in upholding the laws and are convinced the economy can't live without illegals. But there was a time before the invasion when jobs were filled with Americans.

States must act in unison! Arizona and Oklahoma are getting tough on illegals so..... they are coming to Texas! We need to get tough and enforce the laws we have to work with. Eventually many will "self deport" and at least we will have slowed the invasion.

Let's see,
Isn't VA where they tried to enforce ALL Federal gun laws on ALL volent criminals?

I can only hope that enforciment of immigration laws is followed up on by more states with this attempt at getting the Feds to enforce the Constsitution.

McCain
John McCain would give these Illegal Aliens Citizenship, Food Stamps and Social Security Privileges!

John McCain doesn't need to follow Campaign finance laws, those are for everyone else but him.

John McCain stabs the Conservatives in the back, while at the same time kissing the A **'s of the Socialist Candidates and Liberal Media.

All these Republicans keep saying that he is reaching out to the Conservatives.
WRONG!, He has rejected and disavowed Conservatives!
If elected, he would strive to destroy the whole Republican Party, which is now telling us we should come together and back him.

McCain or Obama???

Both would close GITMO Cuba.
Both would legalize 20 million Illegal aliens and give them Social Security, Food Stamps and Free Health Care.
Both would appoint Liberal Judges who would uphold McCain-Feingold and give Terrorist Miranda rights.
Both will give us an Energy Tax.

The Republican Party has rejected conservatism and Conservatives. Now they are whining that we have to come together for the good of the party.

I hope you enjoy YOUR Candidate. I'm Voting Third Party!

The Exodus
The journey south starts with but a single step...and take your Anchor Babies with you!

Note to potential race-baiters: Don't bother espousing your usual "nativist" tripe. If you don't understand and respect the Rule of Law by now, you're beyond help. Really, don't bother...


It's liberals and MSM
that started the chant "we can't deport 12 million illegal immigrants" not the proponents of securing this country from invasion.
The logical solution was overlooked so it could be shown to be an extreme.
The logical argument to the illegal immigration problem has always been to enforce the laws of the land. Not mass deportation. Fred Thompson tried to show us the light with this issue, but no one listened....

Secure the borders.

End Sanctuary Cities by withholding federal funds.

Use e-verify to make sure those working in America, belonged in America

Fine Companies that willfully hired illegal immigrants.

Make sure those that are on federal funded programs were here legally.

Deportation would happen by attrition, there will be no need to round them up, they will leave on their own.

It's a good start,
Now we need to get that dam@#d fence built so they can't come back.

geraldo part ll
If DC was serious and was willing to do the will of the American citizens the solution would be easy and cheap.
We have about 50,000 US servicemen and women securing the border in South Korea, South Korea has the resources and manpower to secure their own border.
I wold take those troops and redeploy every one of them and their equipment on the US border with Mexico.
Cost would be minimal; we already pay their salary and upkeep.
That would put about 50 soldiers per mile of border, and they already are trained in border patrol.
Anyone coming across illegally detained for say 60 days and then sent back.
But I got a hunch that if the military was there, not too many would try to make it across, not workers or drug gangs.

McCain = Amnesty
When McCain realized that he'd never be elected with his amnesty views, he said he saw the light and the border needs to be fixed. He said Congress (him) let down the voters and neeeds to do better.

He never said that he would do anything about it.

He has stated "My views on immigration are unchanged".

Obama and/or Hillary will increase taxes by $Billions.

McCain has already written the McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Bill that will increase taxes by $Trillions.

He is lying when he says no new taxes and, if elected, will sign the Amnesty Bill when it is re-introduced.

geraldo?
Geraldo said on the O'Reilly show that on average there are less illegal criminals than Americans.
What a bunch of BS!
US Government's title 18 says that coming into this country illegally is a felony.
So when he compares illegals to the average American he is assuming that the crime committed to get here is overlooked by all!
Otherwise all illegals are felons and criminals.
Out of the Mexican population just about all but the top elites with jobs and money would love to come here. But they are honest law abiding people, so they don't.
The small percentage that do come over illegally have no respect for laws in general!
That is why we get so many to commit crimes,
lawbreakers from the get go.
Break the law to get here.
Break another law to get a job.
Break another law to get a drivers license
Break another to drive without insurance.
Break another to get free medical.
And break any other law that gets in their way!
Some even get welfare Illegally!
But it seems like "Government by the People" is working just fine, only it's no longer "Government by the American People".
80% of THE PEOPLE want the borders shut tight, and all Illegals sent back.
But it falls on deaf ears in DC. If anything DC will pass amnesty before deporting the criminals.

We Can't round up 12 milllion
This is a statement as true as we can't catch all murderers, drug dealears, bank robbers or pick a felony. That doesn't mean we stop catching as many as we can.

When it becoms harder to stay in the country illegally a good number will voluntarily leave. We will always have some here but there is no reason to make it easy for them.

It's the economy stupid
As long as the economy is tied into illegal immigrants the problem will mock those who protest. Here a local government is trying to outwit the federal government because the federal government deems illegals benefit the economy.

What party will let the economy suffer to enforce laws? Who are the people that will elect a government who could allow such a thing?

As long as the people value economic prosperity more than right and wrong, talking about it is blowing in the wind.

Let them deport themselves.....
Let the illegals deport themselves.

- Secure the border: Fence, massive border patrols. Jail illegals caught trying to enter--see Joe Arpiao below.
- Dry up the jobs: Fine employers of illegals a serious amount of money, jail them for repeat offenses.
- Dry up government services: Welfare, drivers licenses (NC issues them (or did) without asking for immigration status).
- Dry up medical care: Treat only life-threatening cases, then see Joe Arpiao below.
- Withhold federal funds from states, counties and cities that do not cooperate in identifying and arresting illegals.
- Change the anchor baby thingy so that only babies born of parents legally here are U. S. citizens.
- Turn every illegal criminal over to Sheriff Joe Arpiao for his entire sentence, then deport him/her: Joe keeps his Maricopa County, AZ, prisoners in tents in camps in the desert, feeds them bologna sandwiches, makes them work on chain gangs, cable TV (required by law) shows only a religious channel and the weather channel), tells them if they don't like the accommodations, don't come back.

Then they go home on their own.

P. S. Maybe we can send Geraldo Reviera along with them.

Hit The Road, Jack
And Mr. Thomas, it's about time-we're being over-run by Illegal Alien's criminal activities, they come across the border, commit horrendus crimes and get deported only to come back and do it again, especially drug dealers.
There are two Border Patrol Agents sitting in jail right now because of this, we're ecstatic to see Immigration & Custom Enforcement (ICE) taking a proactive role in identifying the culprits and initiating deportation procedings.
If you were to listen to the pro-illegal immigration forces out there, according to them, only one or two illegals, tops, are committing crimes the rest are here to work for a living, albeit it illegally.
The fact that ICE is estimating initiating procedings to deport some 200.000 this year alone tells us that pro immigration group like Mexicans Without Borders are full of crap.
We keep this up, and with our fencing taking shape we'll be able to keep them out this time and put a sizeable dent into that 20 million nationally figure.

The Liberal Way
We simply need to follow the liberal way: give them all driver's licenses and they can drive back!
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