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Monday, February 23, 2009
Burt Prelutsky :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Groves of Hackademe
by Burt Prelutsky
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Down through the years, there have been a great many movies in which school teachers have been portrayed as decent and hard-working, even heroic. Just a handful that come to mind are “Goodbye, Mr. Chips,” “Holland’s Opus,” “This Land is Mine,” “Up the Down Staircase,” “Good Morning, Miss Dove,” “Cheers for Miss Bishop,” “The School of Rock,” “Dangerous Minds,” “Blackboard Jungle,” “Stand and Deliver” and “Dead Poet’s Society.”

But when it comes to college and university professors, they tend to be portrayed either as comical buffoons (“The Nutty Professor,” “Monkey Business,” “Son of Flubber,” “The Absent Minded Professor,” “It Happens Every Spring,” “Horse Feathers”) or as petty, demented and, often as not, alcoholics (“Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf,” “People Will Talk,” “The Squid and the Whale”). In fact, the last time I recall a movie about a professor that any normal person would wish to spend time with was the 1948 release, “Apartment for Peggy,” and even in that one, Edmund Gwenn spent most of his time planning to commit suicide.

Feeling, as I do, that most professors, aside from those teaching science or math, are over-paid, under-worked, left-wing narcissists infatuated with the sound of their own voices, it makes perfect sense that it would be nearly impossible to make a movie about them that wasn’t a slapstick comedy.

One of the things that makes them particularly offensive is their hypocrisy. Although everyone of them would insist that tenure is essential -- not because it guarantees them a secure livelihood just so long as they don’t burn down a dormitory or give a star athlete a failing grade -- but because it ensures them the right to voice unpopular, even unpatriotic, opinions. The truth, however, is that, more often than not, they’re the bullies censoring free speech and punishing with low marks those students with the gumption to speak their own minds.

Just the other day, I read about a student here in L.A. whose professor called him a “fascist bastard” and refused to allow him to conclude his remarks in opposition to same-sex marriages. Although I am aware that this betrayal of the First Amendment occurs regularly in classrooms and lecture halls all across America, the reason I’m aware of this particular case is because the student, Jonathan Lopez, is suing. When Lopez, a devout Christian, asked his professor what grade he was getting for his speech, he was told to go ask God!

So, on college campuses, it’s okay to ridicule a student’s religious convictions, but not to voice an objection to homosexual marriages.

I find it fascinating that academics see no need to be honest, tolerant or even logical. My friend, Larry Purdy, a Minnesota-based lawyer who worked on the University of Michigan cases regarding racial preferences, has written a book, “Getting Under the Skin of ‘Diversity’: Searching for the Color-Blind Ideal,” that makes mincemeat of the Supreme Court’s fatuous decisions, while reminding many of us why we celebrated Sandra Day O’Connor’s departure from the bench.

In 1998, Derek Bok, former president of Harvard, and William Bowen, former president of Princeton, collaborated on a book, “The Shape of the River,” which greatly influenced O’Connor and a majority of her associates.

The entire purpose of the book was to prove that racial preferences (aka affirmative action) were beneficial for the elite schools and for society at large. For openers, Purdy proves that Bok and Bowen were deceptive, to say the least, because they never released the data that allegedly made their case. Instead, we’re all simply expected to take their word for it even though, as clearly spelled out in Brown vs. Board of Education, the government is prohibited from treating citizens differently because of their race. According to Bok and Bowen, the benefits of racial diversity on elite college campuses, no matter how it’s achieved, simply outweighs all other considerations.

The fact is, they admit that they don’t have any idea how many of the minority students they claim to have studied made it to the university on their own merits and not simply because a bunch of elitist pinheads decided that leapfrogging them over more deserving white and Asian students was the American way.

Something else that Bok and Bowen didn’t bother mentioning was the large numbers of minority students who graduated from historically black colleges and universities and went on to achieve a reasonable amount of fame and fortune in spite of not attending Ivy League schools.

As much as I’d like to, I can’t deny that Ivy League graduates tend to go on to greater success than most people. But that has far less to do with the quality of education than with the fact that the students so often come from families that are already wealthy and powerful because their ancestors owned railroads, banks and oil companies, and they therefore have dibs on Senate seats and the Oval Office.

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About The Author
W. Burt Prelutsky is an accomplished, well-rounded writer and author of "The Secret of Their Success: Interviews with Legends and Luminaries."
 
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Well Burt
while I'm only an adjunct faculty English teacher, I must point out that you are "mostly" guilty of a logical fallacy called "Hasty Generalization." You do use the qualifier "most" and I thank you for that, so I followed suit. I don't support using the classroom as a bully pulpit, but I have however, begun taping my classroom "discussions," so that when I play devil's advocate to provoke students to provide evidence for their blanket assertions, and they rant on the student evaluations that I'm biased, racist, bigoted, etc., I have proof of what was said.
The culture on campus is not generally welcoming of "conservative" faculty in the "market place of ideas." Regarding tenure, do you think that Mike Adams would still have a job without it? Thanks for a "mostly" good column.

As a retired professor
of psychology, I find this column offensive, ignorant, and dangerous. Either Prelutsky knows nothing about academics, or he is simply a dishonest hack.

It is true that professors (or teachers in general) are not appreciated in American culture, something which is not found in other countries. One reason is right-wing, anti-intellectuals such as Prelutsky.

He makes the ignorant, but convenient mistake of over-generalizing from a single case (which he describes in no detail whatsoever) to millions of other instances involving faculty-student interactions.

Although Prelutsky tries to let those who do "science and math" off the hook, this disclaimer is buried in the article and seems quite insincere. I suspect he is confused here, because his bigotry must also extend to other social sciences such as sociology, psychology, anthropology, etc.. He doesn't even seem to know the difference between sciences and humanities.

In reality, professors play a crucial role in passing on knowledge (higher education) to the next generation. More important, these professors are the highly devoted people who are responsible for acquiring the knowledge: it is the university system, not the corporate world, that is responsible for the greatest advances in human knowledge -- by far.

And these are the people Prelutsky smears.

a sunny day
Hello

Same mistake
Dear Dr. Douglas. In the same breath where you point out an over generalization by the author, you say, "It is true that professors (or teachers in general) are not appreciated in American culture, something which is not found in other countries. One reason is right-wing, anti-intellectuals such as Prelutsky.
It's best, when pointing to fallacies used by another that you don't immediately commit the same one yourself. It undermines your credibility.

Well I see
Profblog shut down Dr Douglas in short order. Thanks Profblog.

Burt my only gripe is the undervaluing of actually good, if not great teachers in the Liberal Arts. You are a most excellent writer...would you be one without an education? Don't assume the Sciences leave their politics at the door either, because they don't.

Does discrimination happen. ABSOLUTELY! My daughter started experiencing it in fifth grade, and all the way through school, and yes has already experienced it in her religious studies class in college. However, if we throw all teachers in together as totally bad then we are really no better than liberals.

In case anyone is wondering my daughter was discriminated against on a paper, and treated to a rant in writing, just like the student in LA, because she wouldn't dump on Christianity and Judaism. She had the complete and utter gall to defend them!

Super article Burt!
Right on the money! If it were not for these Communist/Socialist so-called "professors" indoctrinating our youth instead of teaching truth. Our country wouldn't have the problems we have today!

The dumbed down society that we see today is a direct result of their efforts. It is right out of the communist doctrine to take control of America by infiltrating the schools and brainwashing our children! Obviously they've succeeded. Now they have one of their own (Communist) elected as president. And the people that elected Ovomit are to stupid to even see the damage that will be done to their own country!

When we have an armed revolt ( we must and will) All so-called professors that have done this should be hanged!!

The Douglas Identification Problem
Once again Douglas posts his infantile rants simply because he feels the author identified him as one of those narcisstic left wing professors. His ego immediately leaps to that conclusion.

Clearly it is true, and by judging the content of the posts by the retired professor Douglas, one can easily come to the conclusion the man spent his life in an echo chamber of left wing ideology.

You would have thought a Phd type would be interested in diversity of thought. But when you are a narcisstic ideologue only your own thoughts count..

Douglas simply cannot behave in a manner outside the confines of the left wing narcissism environment.

Truly he has become Pavlovs dog.

Profblog

You accuse me of overgeneralizing? I guess I should have gone ahead and mentioned Mike Adams, another dishonest, right-wing, anti-intellectual on this site. And then there's other columnists, such as George Will, who never miss an opportunity to attack the humanities. But I thought I would cut them some slack and focus on Prelutsky.

GET REAL - We've got all these right-wingers in this country trying to undermine the teaching of science (e.g., evolution) to our children. We have the republican party which consistently tries to limit federal and state money devloted to education. We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart. And you accuse me of overgeneralizing??

There is rampant anti-intellectualism in this country, and the conservatives are in large part responsible for it.

Anderson659

You claim that academia is an echo chamber of left wing propaganda but you don't have a clue regarding the enormous ranges of ideas (conservative as well as liberal) that occur within universities. Do you have any idea what you are talking about.

How can you possibly accuse someone else of living in an echo chamber when you spend your entire life (apparently) here on Townhall, which goes way, way beyond an echo chamber. All you do is read the same columnists rotating through the same republican talking points, followed by hundreds of puppets repeating those talking points, with everyone reinforcing and amplifying one another. The system is so tightly closed that new ideas cannot even be processed.

As for your attack on me personally, why do you think I (a liberal) come here to Townhall other than to try to learn new ideas. Unfortunately, the ideas are few and far between.


Douglas- Epitomy of an enemies complex
Douglas speaks about anti- Intellectualism.

He is the epitomy of the phrase. The man could be a poster child for the new reality show, "professors gone bad". Starring emeritus rejects who spent their lives in an academic bubble.

It is sad to see a psychology professor with a defined enemies complex, and exhibit in public the petty infantile jealousies he has towards conservatives who make up half of the population.

Douglas forgets the far left type are 5% of the population.

One Month of Pres. Barack Hussein Obama

The "transparent" presidency of Barack Hussein Obama. The man who commits act of treason daily, with a backdrop of more and more American flags.

By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugeesand conflict victims in Gaza.

The "presidential determination" which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

President Obama's decision, according to the Register, was necessitated by "the urgent refugee and migration needs" of the "victims."

Few on Capitol Hill took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.

Let's review some of Barack Obama's most recent actions since he was inaugurated a little more than one month ago:

•His first call to any head of state as president was to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory.

•His first one on one interview with any news organization was with Al Arabia television.

•He ordered Guantanamo Bay closed and all military trials of detainees halted.

•He ordered all overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.

•He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the USS Cole and 9/11.

•Today we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refuges to move to and live in the US at American taxpayer expense.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

A presidency that is "transparent" to some, remains hidden from the blind eyes and empty minds of others.

Dear Douglas
No need to attack you, I merely point out what you post in factual analysis. You spend more time here posting than I do, and on far more articles than I ever have. Sorry you seem to be the one making assumptions without facts. Not very Phd of you, is it now Dougie?

And NEVER do you post anything other than subjective personal opinion. The truth is that you have failed to establish even a minimum level of intellectual capability. Your posts are best described as coming from a useful idiot.

There are none so blind as those who can not see the forest for the trees. And dear Dr., that is you.

No need to attack you Douglas, you do it all yourself. Watching you step all over yourself with both feet, column after column is entertainment that can not be bought.

Thank you.


Arrogance & Ego...
sho' nuff! I have had occasion to watch what happens to tenured hacks when some 19-yr-old co-ed walks into his office to ask one of those dumb-as-dirt questions which are designed, chiefly, to get her noticed. These guys live for such moments -- that & seeing their name in some non-descript journal. The worst of them are bullies. The next level up are the ones who regard the gullible teen as an object to mold in accordance with their own world-view. In the '20s, they were all racists, after Darwin. Now they are all neo-racists, after Darwin.
I think generalizations are in order. They are, mostly, squeaky little feminists who have experienced next to nothing of life. And the brighter students easily see through them. They don't endanger society so much as give out what they think is expected of them. Their committment to any ideology is about as deep as the spin put on it in the last 'scholarly' publication.
The quiet ones, and there are many, are sometimes brilliant. But even they require an ego the size of a house to survive.
It's the wells that are poisoned -- the 'culture' of academe. You fix that the same way you fix the 'newsroom culture' or the 'boardroom culture' -- either through attrition & long, slow, historical change, or by violent revolution.
As for the 'rampant anti-intellectualism' of the conservative elements in American society: that's a '50s trope used by people who may or may not have read Richard Hofstater, but who figure the use of the phrase will likely gull or beguile some dumb 19-yr-old.

Dr Douglas: dishonest as usual
Dr Douglas, you claim that you, a liberal, come to TownHall to learn new ideas, while the rest of us here just spend our lives reading the same columnists??

First, as to the claim you come here to learn new ideas, puh-leeze! You do not. You come here to read columns and then write your idiotic screeds. Never ONCE have I seen you agree with anything stated here, or take any sort of nuanced position or cogently argue. You simply attack everyone who disagrees with you as dishonest (can you say "projection?") and trying to create fear and hate. So much for you "learning new ideas."

Secondly, you apparently think that those who are regulars here read nothing else, and get no idea from anywhere else, and that somehow you have a monopoly on diversity of opinion.

You, sir, are generally exactly what you accuse everyone else of being.

I've said it before, Dr Douglas, and I'll say it again: you are an idiot and a coward.

Those that can, do
Those that can't, teach

Huh.
About the only place I get a glimpse of the truth about the lives of male, college "teachers," is from literally all our best fiction writers, beginning with Updike, Roth, Lewis, etc.

Then too, my anectotal evidence -- all my male college teacher friends, and many of my former girl friends, college graduates all.

Boy! What a life, huh?

Quick...
...read "Dr" Douglas's comments,because by Noon today he will be "flagged as offensive" right off the board.Even that is more respect than he deserves!

Unca Alby
Try teaching if you think its easy. I guarantee it will be an educational experience. Our schools are crying for volunteers. I was a volunteer for 20 years while working as an engineer. Now i'm retired, i'm on the princely salary of $9.83/hour doing the same as always for 20 hours a week. Try taking over a kindergarden class while the regular teacher eats lunch. You will learn far more than you teach the kids.

Our public schools are broken, but its not the teachers. Its the PC rules coming down from people far removed from the classroom.

They HAVE infiltrated academia . . .
When I was a young history student at university in the early 1970's, like a large number of my peers I was a member of the radical (Trotskyist) Left. Fortunately, I managed to free myself of my Marxist delusions before being self-committed to my own personal asylum for the ideologically self-righteous. Many of my former comrades were not so fortunate. They became locked in the mental strait-jacket of their own utopian Socialist fantasies, which have never born any relationship to the REALITY of Marxist regimes. I know . . . both from personal experience, and, from visits to many universities throughout this country, over many years . . . that a large number of the former "comrades" of my generation HAVE infiltrated university faculties on a wide scale. "Dr. D", in my opinion, is exaggerating the level of intellectual diversity that currently exists on university campuses. People can become emotionally attached to theories and dogmas . . . just as they can become attached to THINGS . . . even after those theories and dogmas have long since proven themselves to be anachronistic and tyrannical.

Wonderful article
My Ph.D. is in sociology, and this guy is dead on. We fund these idiots in higher education to the tune of billions if not trillions. Social sciences and liberal arts are the worst. They could not work in the real world if their lives depended on it. Nasty, vile little people.

Mr Prelutsky - I generally agree
with you, but this time, not so much.

You completely forgot to mention that hardest of students to be;
White, heterosexual, Christian, conservative MALE.

In every class he is vilified. And God alone will help him if he takes 'women's studies' of any sort... Only his faith in God can sustain him...

Profblog
It is impossible to undermine that which does not exist.

Dr. Douglas
You seem to be the one who is intellectually dishonest. A couple of points: You say, " We have the republican party which consistently tries to limit federal and state money devloted to education."
All Republicans do is try to make sure we're getting something for the money we're pouring into the public education system. So far, the returns have been abysmal, so why pour good money after bad? Please, show me ANY data that correlates educational quality with public money spent.
You say, "We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart."
You have the gall to post this after 8 years of calling President Bush stupid. Gore is a college dropout who only made it into politics because of his family connections. Kerry's dishonesty is legendary. For example, we're still waiting for his DD-214 he promised to sign. And don't forget, Bush made BETTER GRADES in a more difficult institution than either of these dolts. As for Obama, he couldn't have taken any courses in Economics or History, because he's repeating every economic mistake of the last 100 years.

"There is rampant anti-intellectualism in this country, and the conservatives are in large part responsible for it."

Well, you're partly right. The anti-intellectualism is coming from the left as they squelch any discussion that includes a conservative viewpoint, e.g. It isn't the conservatives who threaten to cut funding to any scientist who doesn't agree with the concept that Global Warming is caused by human activity.

Can you support any of your contentions?

Possessors of Useless Knowledge
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..." always runs through my mind when the subject of professors comes to mind. I dealt with them for years and found many of them close-minded to the point of idiocy.

Dr. Douglas should realize what he doesn't know far outweighs what little knowledge he has learned in his academic silo. So-called super-intelligent people like Gore, Kerry, and Obama, all of whom went to Ivy League colleges, pale in comparison to the actual achievements of Ronald Reagan who graduated from a small obscure college in the Midwest.

Dr. Douglas
Dear Dr. Douglas,
Your condescending attitude shows your audience that you are indeed one of the odious academia hacks that Mr. Prelutsky is referring to.
You refer to the anti-intellectualism of conservatives, however; I am willing to wager that you do not identify yourself as a liberal. More than likely, you refer to your ideology as progressive or moderate. At least we conservatives are honest about our bias. I cannot recall the last time I heard anyone refer to themselves as a liberal.
But I digress. Conservatives are not anti-intellectual, we are anti-elitist. Logic and intelligence are on our side. We can argue our positions without resorting to ad hominem attacks. Do I here the right attacking President Obama personally? I have just had to endure 9 years of constant media bias calling our former president everything from stupid to evil. I have yet to hear anything of the sort from even the most obnoxious right-wing commentator.
The argument of individualism versus federalism has been a part of this country since its inception. One of the things that prove the greatness of this country is that we have had this argument continuously for over 200 years without violence, with the one obvious exception. Your ideology and mine are not new and neither is superior over the other. They both have good points and bad points and neither should be taken to extremes. The important aspect of this is that both viewpoints should be open to and accepting of debate for only through honest debate will an acceptable compromise be found. And never forget that the ability to compromise is one of the things that separates adults from children.

Dr. Douglas
How did you come to the conclusion that Mr. Obama is an intelligent person? Is it because he plays one on TV?

There is simply no evidence that he is anything of the sort. Do you feel, as so many apparently do, that he is so uniquely qualified to be president that the American people have no right to know anything about his educational qualifications?

I guarantee that a Republican could never accomplish the presidency without every minute detail of his education being brought to light by the left wing media.

Dr. Douglas' dangerous generalizations
Our dear Dr. Douglas wrote this hilarious paragraph:

"We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart. And you accuse me of overgeneralizing??"

Let's examine the facts:

1) For eight years, President Bush, the first President with an MBA (from Harvard, no less), was brutally ridiculed in the media and by comedians looking for a cheap laugh;

2) The SAT score is a good indicator of IQ. While Al Gore received a score of 1150 (not good enough to enter my alma mater, Georgia Tech), George W. Bush received the same score I did: 1260. [John Kerry did not release his SAT score; and Barack Obama has jealously guarded his college records at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.]

Dan Schwartz
Sayreville, NJ
http://users.snip.net/~joe

Pay attention: Stupid IS as Stupid Does
"We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart"
+++++++++++++++++

Let me be counted as one (not necessarily a Republican) who finds the above statement by Dr.Douglas to be both Hilarious and rather pitiful. Too Smart????? NO. Too Liberal? Absolutely.

I just completed reading a book by a very well-educated Brit. He makes the case for education as well as for Conservatism. Smart 'Republicans'...they're out here!

Smart 'Liberals'...They're "Out There" too! WAY OUT!!!

ROFL

Hackademe
Another thought-provoking article and POV. Thanx, Mr. Prelutsky.

I attended a smaller, private college. We had great professors and intolerant ones back then. I learned early that I was being tested by some of these professors relative to what was taught, not on what was objective or even correct.

That is it...
Absolutely nothing has contributed to the dearth of intellectual activity in the USA more than the advent of political correctness encouraged and engendered by the leftist progressive academic community, supported assiduously by the less than sparklingly bright media groups, and administrations more worried about funding than education.
While I am loathe to respond to lightweights on these devices (blogs), those who would put forth the projection defence for their own shortcomings deserve to live out their lives in academe, surrounded by quislings of their own ilk. Intellectual narcissism defines its own purgatory and its occupants are more than faintly familiar to those who might have read Sartre.
Tenure was originally created to protect academic freedom in a time when Kings and governments did not tolerate criticism well, but since the rise of fascism on university campuses over the past two decades or so it has become a protection device for those who would diminish the full spectrum of intelligent discussion with their narcissist intellect and non-comprehension of individual responsibility. The totalitarian menace was not eliminated when Reagan bankrupt the Russians, it just found another refuge by attaining tenure in universities and colleges.
However, having said that, one must admit that there are tenured professors of larger scope than the evangelistic adherents to The Dogma. Those professors which can tolerate dissenting opinions within open discussion are probably few and far between these days, but should be sought out as the few adherents of intellectual freedom remaining in the largely progressive dominated PC oligarchy known as university life.

Right on Burt!
Was offered the position of Lecturer by the University English Department Chair; turned it down flat, and told him "I hate this place, and half of the arrogant, liberal instructors." Instead, I went to adjunct teaching at a Community College.

BTW, I have been stuck in a math class when the instructor went off on how stupid Bush is.


Aspacia:
Right on Burt!
Was offered the position of Lecturer by the University English Department Chair; turned it down flat, and told him "I hate this place, and half of the arrogant, liberal instructors." Instead, I went to adjunct teaching at a Community College.

I'm an Adjunct at a Dallas County Community College, and I have found that there is a greater diversity of political there, and in other colleges in the District than at the major universities in the area.

DR. Doug -
Don't underestimate your fellow posters - most of us spent a few years on college campuses and are quite aware of the liberal weight of higher education. Your innocuous defense reminds me of a child with chocolate on his face trying to convince his mother that he hasn't been in the cookie jar.

Technical Traiing,
This is one of the main reasons our 17yo will be taking technical training at a community college instead of degree-oriented training at a 4-year school.

He'll come out knowing as much or more about computer simulation and game design as he would have at the 4-year school but,

1. It will take 2 years instead of 4.
2. It will cost a lot less.
3. He will focus on learning useful things instead of having useful things randomly distributed among mandatory chunks of nice-but-not-worth-the-time/money things.
4. His exposure to leftist cranks will be limited as a result of the tight focus on the actual course content.

Fred:
Like most leftwingers here, Dr. Douglas here truly believes that all conservatives are ill-educated knuckle dragging troglodytes. Despite evidence to the contrary, nothing will convince him otherwise.

This is getting to be like the weather
Everybody talks about it but no one DOES anything about it.

Cutting off the the funding for these hacks is the only way, EXCEPT the Obama Spendulus Bill pours money into higher education like it's water.

Gubmint truth; Want more of something - subsidize it. That means we'll be getting more propagandized "graduates" whose self esteem is high without any accomplishment, no work ethic, no basis in true History and prepared for nothing other than continuing the decline of education, which can't get much lower.

Those of us who aren't in the special interest groups like teachers, unions, racist entities (like La Raza & ACORN) or welfare pimps/cheats, are simply screwed. Not only do we get to pay for this biggest boondoggle in history, our children and grandchildren are now officially wage slaves to the state.

Congrats, Dr. Doug. Your liberal blather gets more comments than the author. Retired psychologist, huh? I say, "Physician, heal thyself." I definitely would have failed any of your courses, been kicked out of school or even jailed, because I would have stood up and punched your lights out, YOU CREEPY COMMIE!!! You are the antithesis of everything I was brought up to believe.

in the back of the classroom
As a retired English professor, I have had to keep my opinions to myself and bear the cross of silence. Being conservative in an English Department in college is like being forced to sit in the back of the bus.

Agreed
My daughter has been tainted by her uber-Conservative civics teacher. He mocks every Democrat's name, gives distorted or incorrect statistics, and outright lies about policy.

Oh, and he's tenured, so much of the time he reads a newspaper while the students get the typical assignment: read the following pages and answer the following questions.

He must be too busy writing for TH to be bothered to actually teach. And when he does teach, most of the students see through his politics and wish to return to read-answer-read-answer-read...

Yes, tenure is not perfect.

Dr. Douglas
There's an old quote I love from Annie Hall which best describes you: "Those who can't do teach, and those who can't teach, teach gym."

I've been reading your judgemental blatherings for quite sometime, and being an educated woman who also lives out in the real world and not sheltered in the fantasy bubble of a faculty system, I really have come to the conclusion that you are no Doctor.

I can see you are a product of our educational system and are probably no more than a student who is studying for his doctorate. You are playing a role, hoping to obtain any credence amongst us "right wingers" by feigning Doctor in your title and puking out your broad swooping generalizations that most students do.

You said:
"We've got all these right-wingers in this country trying to undermine the teaching of science (e.g., evolution) to our children."

-Nice generalization. Where has this so-called front affected the colleges and threw out evolution and science as part of studies.

"We have the republican party which consistently tries to limit federal and state money devloted to education."

-So you believe throwing money at a turd will make it blossom into a flower? So because the educational system is failing, you feel adding more money to the educational system will make our teachers better, smarter and more capable than before? Please...any C student can get a degree and teach, I know a few. Perhaps just a stronger and stricter hiring and firing policy would make things better rather than taxing me up the wazoo.

"We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart."

-Too smart?! By Gawd, you have proven to me you still are a wet behind the ears student with that remark.


"And you accuse me of overgeneralizing??"

--Ahem....



Question
Can ANYONE tell me why these knothead professors have tenure and why such a concept is not available to other professions? Please this is a sincere question and I would love to know how this happened.

Don't Make Fun of the Doctor!!
We shouldn't be discouraging the dear Doctor. After all, he is clearly demonstrating the salient points of Burt's article, namely the intolerance and elitism of Liberal academia.

Of less mention, but just as important, is the realization that people like the Doctor really have no fixed value system. They are malleable by and adaptable to whatever culture in which they live. Take them back a couple of hundred years, and they'd be the most vicious of religious bigots, hauling witches before the tribunal, and gathering the faggots for burning (intended!!). They don’t really care about Liberalism, they care about Power.

One has to realize that Liberal academics are simply "using the system" to wield whatever power they can amass, and oppress those whom they consider their inferiors which, in their minds, is everyone.

Rather then worrying too much about their commitment to Liberalism, we need to recognize they are small people, momentarily ceded a smidgeon of power, and using it to feed their fragile egos. Strip them of their power, by exposing the fatuousness of their arguments, and they wilt like weeds hit with RoundUp. Of course, like any garden overcome with weeds, it will take time. But, if we continue to expose their hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty, and use enough RoundUp, even the most addle-brained, beer-soaked, freshmen will recognize them for what they are.

Oh, and Now Douglas is Retired?
That just slipped my eyesight for a moment. Here you are acting as if you were a practing so-called professor for months, even describing your current so-called areas of study, stating fantasies and trying to sell them as facts to us to further validate your credentials, and yet....

You now claim to be "retired" from being a professor? Do you ever get your stories straight? Or had you an incentive to do this because many people here were literally looking for you and realizing you truly do not exist as you said you do in Oregon colleges?

You are a complete phony, a shill, and it's time to give it up.

Anyone
Anyone who has spent at least one semester in Grad school knows how close to home Prelutsky's column is. The truth is as written.

Burt, you forgot...
one movie from the 1950's that is a hoot. It is "Teachers Pet" and stared Clark Gable, Doris Day and Gig Young. In it, Clark Gable, playing a grizzled, hard bitten newspaper man, spent most of the movie pulling the wool over eyes of Doris Day. She played a naieve journalism professor. Gig Young was great as the been there, done that academic.

Off Topic
New Parody on Holder. My Blog. click my name. Enjoy.

This is NOTHING new
Back in 1961 I was required to write a research paper on Lincoln and the Civil War for a freshman college history class. In my paper, I said that Lincoln violated the very constitution and national law that he said he was fighting the war to protect. I said that the Emancipation Proculamation was a military ploy intended to incite blacks to riot and foment a rebellion in the south. It freed people of color below the mason-Dixon line but did not those above it. In other words, he freed people he had no control or power to free, but did not free those he did have the power to free. Those are of course, ABSOLUTE HISTORICAL FACTS!

My history professor called me to his office and told me that he wanted me to rewrite the paper because it had a racist slant and he would not accept it. I refused. He said he would give me an "F" if I did not. I refused. He have me an "F" and I gave him a broken nose and a black eye. The dean gave me the boot out of the college and I gave the U S Navy four years and went back to college on the G I Bill. Now my professor was the chairman of the history department at that college, so I decided to attend another college where I earned an MBA in Economics with honors.

But I am a racist because I report historical facts clearly and completely document them in my research paper in history at a certain college. That professor went on to have his graduate students do all the research for him and he wrote a book and went on all the talk shows. Yes. Tenure is important because it protects slime like that professor and if it were not for tenure, he would have to get a real job--if he could.

inthemajority
Send him our way.

Excellent Post
OncealwaysaMarine #12. I will repost it here:

One Month of Pres. Barack Hussein Obama

The "transparent" presidency of Barack Hussein Obama. The man who commits act of treason daily, with a backdrop of more and more American flags.

By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugeesand conflict victims in Gaza.

The "presidential determination" which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

President Obama's decision, according to the Register, was necessitated by "the urgent refugee and migration needs" of the "victims."

Few on Capitol Hill took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.

Let's review some of Barack Obama's most recent actions since he was inaugurated a little more than one month ago:

•His first call to any head of state as president was to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory.

•His first one on one interview with any news organization was with Al Arabia television.

•He ordered Guantanamo Bay closed and all military trials of detainees halted.

•He ordered all overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.

•He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the USS Cole and 9/11.

•Today we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refuges to move to and live in the US at American taxpayer expense.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

A presidency that is "transparent" to some, remains hidden from the blind eyes and empty minds of others.

inthemajority
Your daughter has an uber-conservative civics teacher? In Pennsylvania? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whew, that was funny.

It sounds as if you're describing a public school teacher, not a college professor. Public school teachers don't need tenure; they have teachers' unions to protect their incompetence. Also, a college professor wouldn't need classroom time to read the newspaper since they only work about 4 hours per week

Taking a huge leap of faith and assuming that there's even a scintilla of truth in your assertions... for each conservative professor (yes, all five of them) in Pennsylvania colleges, there must be literally thousands of liberal malcontents, spreading their acrimonious pulp.

And it's working! Only in Pennsylvania can crooked Congressman Murtha call his constituents a bunch of rednecks and still get elected.

As a Former Leftists
(I don't use the word liberal as it was stolen away and had its real meaning perverted, I want the term back, thanks)

The funny thing about me being a former leftist "progressive" is that it was those very teachers that showed me the fallacy of leftism. What they weren't expecting was me to actually take their advice and think about it on my own. I did and found that not only did they not want me to think for myself in my college years, they wanted me to just take what they told me as fact without question. Maybe more students need to take their advice.

As for tenure, why do we have this? Universities aren't meant to be places where we learn about diversity and free speech, they're places to obtain a foundation knowledge for a viable future career. What kind of career does a class like (Insert Special Interest Group Here) Studies, History or the legions of other Liberal Arts classes lead to?

Maybe tenure is there because these very "professors" who call themselves doctors realize that thier chosen fields only have futures teaching the subject and nothing else. These subjects have no business at places of higher learning, especially any of those that get their hands on taxpayer money. All these subjects do is increase the costs to students and taxpayers to support the salaries of the professors, deans, administrators and buildings that house these subjects that have no real purpose in the world at large.

We can learn about diversity, politics and free speech without having to spend a dime, so why are we paying good money to "teach" it?

Burt
Another fine article that slaps the looney lefties in the face

shells1
Great catch on "Dr. Douglas"!!

Don't let him get to you. He is still smarting over the massive derriere chewing he received from Dr. Adams, as evidenced by his attack on him earlier.

If you haven't read it, here is the link for your enjoyment!

http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeSAdams/2009/01/08/mr_ada ms_responds

even when
My Father-in-law, is the chair of English at a smallish private college. He has taught his entire career, edited and written on the side, and obtained his Doctorate. Teaching is in his blood (4th generation) and he is brilliant at it.

Even at a private college where the standards are still pretty high, he refuses to teach lower level classes. Why? Because the students are completely UNPREPARED for any kind of college level work that was required less than 30 years ago.

He would love to be able to get back into teaching beginning lit etc, in order to awaken young minds. But, the class turns into a 5th grade grammar course. So this wonderful teacher sits behind his desk and waits for students to come to him him upper level classes, all the while pushing administrative paper and playing politics (which he hates).

So even when there are gifted, talented, intelligent teachers who truelly are good at what they do, they are unable to teach because students are not ready to learn. So the colleges and universities simply provide profs. who teach to the level of the uneducated and unthinking students. Sad.

Shells-Agreement and Disagreement
First off, Dr. Douglass is a real person. I know it is hard to believe given the lack of intellectual capacity shown on TH by him. However, I know you really don't like Mike Adams too much and probably stopped reading him. However, they had a very entertaining exchange with Adams exposing who "Dr. Douglass" really is.

Now, calling Gore and Kerry intellectual candidates-well, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. During his presidential campaign, Gore said so many things about himself and his record that were outright lies and provably wrong, that I actually thought he was mentally ill. Liberals feel that history starts anew each morning. They act like there are no such things as archives, recording devices, etc. He said he was never pro 2nd ammendment. Gore said he was never anti-abortion. All on the record and all lies. This is why liberals hate talk radio so much and want to shut it down. The MSM would have and did ignore the "inconsistencies" in Gore's telling of his own history. This guy was proven to be delusional yet we are supposed to follow him like some sort of messiah when it comes to Global Warming. That load of bull at least needs a more credible spokesman.

As for Kerry, it is the professor types who mistake someone who speaks slowly with an East Coast accent as an intellectual. However, Kerry was smart enough to marry wealthy women twice so he'd never really pur in an honest day of work-kind of like a university professor working in the "soft" sciences.

left-wing academics
Most of this thread seems to have been a long argument with Dr. Doofus, the retired leftist academic. Dr. Doofus would have people believe that there are academics (hackademics to Mr. Prelutsky) on all sides of the political spectrum. But that is not the issue. The issue is not the political beliefs of the hackademics, but their use of the classroom to propagandize instead of teach.

I attended school full-time for 21 and a half years. In those years I was NEVER propagandized from the right, but was repeatedly propagandized from the left. I had a high school history teacher who propagandized repeatedly that "Democrat = good, Republican = bad." He wouldn't even call the U.S. President (Nixon in those days -- 1970) by his name and title, but referred to him as "that Milhous guy." In college I was given bad grades by an education professor who did nothing but propagandize from the left. The guy was without a doubt the worst teacher I ever experienced -- he would show up for class late and completely unprepared, and then waste our time and money. Those are only two examples, but the point is: always propaganda from the left, never from the right.

Why? Because the traditional ideal of finding the Truth is a conservative ideal: it derives from both "Athens" and "Jerusalem." The leftist position is that there is no Truth -- there is only politics, and whoever screams the loudest, wins. So leftist profs don't teach, lest students find the Truth. They propagandize and they bully. And when caught in their endless propaganda, they lie -- repeatedly. That means you, Dr. Doofus.

Liberalism

Being a liberal was once a good thing. Mirriam-Webster defines it as:

"a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties."

Modern Liberalism, which I now refer to as neoliberalism, is none of that. It is an anti-capitalist, fascist, collectivist philosophy bent on the destruction of the United States of America as a capitalist state. In its place, they want a facist state where government controls the economy, healthcare, airwaves, internet, private property and nearly every aspect of peoples' lives.

It's starting already. With the laughably named "Employee Free-Choice Act," the government is making sure that the small business, in the hands of small businessmen, will not long survive in America.

The "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" sets the precedent of the government, instead of the market, deciding who will be propped up and who will fail. Once anyone takes government money, they are no longer private industry but simply toadies of the government.

The ridiculously named "Fairness Doctrine," which is being formulated, as we speak, to include the internet as well as airwave and satellite broadcasts, is designed to ensure that no opposition to the Messiah and his statist thugs is heard.

Finally, the systematic destruction of private property rights has been under way for many years under the guise of "the common good" and environmentalism.


The Dr. Douglas PSA
Dr. Douglas once posted that his own university, Oregon State, was too poor to hire teaching assistants. In fact, as I learned in 5 minutes on the OSU website, OSU does indeed hire TAs. They also recognize and negotiate with the TAs collective bargaining unit. And OSU has a special award to recognize excellence among TAs.

I just want to remind everyone who's done Dr. D the courtesy of responding to him that the man is either a hopeless ignoramus, a pathological liar, an utter fool, or some combination of all 3.

The preceding has been a public service of Doc Liberty. As always, we thank you for your support.

Dan_Schwartz
Very well said. I got that "Bush is a dummy" talk a lot over the past few years. I would say that not everyone is eloquent yet they can still be very smart-Book smart, Street Smart, or both. Rush Limbaugh barely got out of High School for example, but I doubt even his harshest critics would call him dumb.

Like you, I tell people that instead we need to look at some objective standard. I liked your use of the SAT. I would also say that Gore, Kerry, and Bush all went to Ivy League schools, and guess who had the highest GPA, Bush of course. A (genius) friend of mine who flies planes knows what Bush flew in the Reserves. He says that there is no way you can be stupid and be able to fly that particular plane. At this point, my adversaries normally change the person and say that Bill Clinton had better grades. But we weren't talking about Clinton, like Dr. Douglass, they are the ones exalting Gore and Kerry, two very ordinary men.

U of M Redux
I was a math/science type who attended U of M. Since my discipline required a certain number of electives in order to graduate, I chose to take philosophy one semester. The professor often arrived late (no apologies offered) and was prone to tirades, once throwing a chair across the room. I was afraid he would beat someone up.

Anyone who spoke up was often the target of retribution in the form of humiliating comments or bad grades on papers. God forbid anyone identify himself as a conservative or mention a conservative take on anything. Phone calls home describing the situation were met with disbelief. Most of the required electives were taught by people who couldn't survive anywhere but a college campus.

U of M is a microcosm of the former Soviet Union. Instead of encouraging the open exchange of ideas within a framework of acceptable behavior, U of M has chosen to limit speech to conform to a framework of university-approved ideas. I hope things improve, but don't see how it is possible without a barrage of lawsuits.

STRANGE AND NUTTY PROFESSORS

.....I remember one of my nutty professors, a dude name Adolphous Bungwacker who had this strange theory that if we could get eveybody in the World to syncronize their next sex act at a certain time of the day that we could speed up the rotation of the Earth and thus solve Global Warming by cutting down the hours of daylight ...the last I heard he was surfing porno sites trying to line up volunteers .....COLOSSUS

Dr. Doug--address specifics
Dr. Douglas, you complain of the over-generalization you say this column exhibits toward college professors and intellectual pursuits, but haven't addressed any of the primary arguments Prelutsky makes. Do you believe that Presidents Bok and Bowen were correct in declaring the value of racial preferences in college admissions regardless of actual data suggesting the contrary? If so, what supports their arguments other than an elitist conviction that they simply know better than the skeptical boors who doubt them. You have simply accused the author and anyone who agrees with him of ignorance and dishonesty. If this is how you presented yourself to students, you do nothing to refute the general impression of intolerant leftist academics. And, yes, I have degrees in English and Law from a major Eastern urban university, and am always willing to learn something new. Provide something worthwhile.

From the mouths of neolibs
Just to bolster my 10:41 post, this from neolib Jeff over on Mike Adams comments:

"The Worst Person In The World
The most heinous, egregious, immoral, debased misanthropic, and outright evil people in the world are (in descending order):

Racists
George Bush
Sexists
CEOs
Republicans
Pedophiles
Capitalists
Wife-Beaters
Murderers
... and so on.

Racism is the root of all evil (apologies to money)."

Note that the little leftist places GWB, capitalists, CEOs and Republicans below murderers and wife beaters? Hell, according to Jeffie, capitalists are worse than pedophiles.

baseballdoc
LOL

I remember hearing about a class a couple of years ago that spewed the premise that Asian males in America have been emasculated because their presence in American porn films is slight to none.

And parents still cough up their hard-earned dough to send their kids to these "bastions of higher learning".

LMAO

Comment on a comment
"As for the 'rampant anti-intellectualism' of the conservative elements in American society: that's a '50s trope used by people who may or may not have read Richard Hofstater, but who figure the use of the phrase will likely gull or beguile some dumb 19-yr-old."

I don't think this is a trope, but something
that actually exists. Several conservatives
make a career or part of one complaining about
our higher education system which is generally
considered the best in the world (not that it
could not be better) and dissing so-called
liberal colleges, but then send their children
to the same institutions.


BURT - I'M MAD TOO
I spent my hard earned money sending my son to one of the best universities in our state and now he is a dyed in the wool Liberal.

However, I am working on him, we have some very lively discussions and good exchange of ideas.
He is still a good son and a fine man. I respect his opinions even when I don't agree with him.



Dear True Lib
I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt. While doing so may be of doubtful benefit, I'm willing to try.

Higher education and gosh, gee, willy
Tenure bad, free market good. Has our esteemed burt ever heard of "publish or perish"? Public universities have tenure to make them safe from political hacks - "He's a communist/fascist, fire him.

Private universities do not necessarily have tenure, Which should alleviate most of Burt's anger. In an open market you do not have to spend your money. What is Burts problem with them?

Finally, the gross ignorance of burt and his fellow travelers astounds me. Do any of you understand the relationship between Professor and etymology?

Mod Mark
"The quality of the students is to blame for our failing education system."

And where do these low-quality students come from?

Shells
I forgot your best point. I too knew many "C" students who couldn't hack it, go get their degree in education. I once corrected something a teacher had marked as correct on a test for my older son. He at first said that, well, the teacher said it was correct. I said to him, "Did you ever stop to think that I might be smarter than this teacher, and most of your teachers." "That I choose to do something else to make a living." Years later he carries a 4.9 GPA in high school and has learned that not all knowledge comes from a teacher and that teacher is not always correct, especially when it comes to topics touching on opinion.

One last thing, and you'll love this. He had a paper to be done on some historic, right-wing person. May have been Joe McCarthy. The professor is left-leaning. I presented him with informationoften hidden about McCarthy. He told me that he knew what the teacher wanted to hear/read, and he would tailor his paper appropriately. Got an A. Too bad he couldn't write a paper challenging the typical liberal dogma, but he has aspirations of going to a very good school.

CFriar-YLG-MPaddy-Others
The HUGE Majority of these types all subscribe to a Philosophy of Government that has been a FAILURE wherever it has been tried. The Prime Tenet of this Philosophy is to level the playing field economically. Yet these professorial types engage in the antithesis of this philosophy VIA Lectures, writing books, etc. Me thinks these SO CALLED academics are:

A. Liars
B. Cheats
C. Cowards
D. Liberals
E. All of the above

Edna-> Reply #18


Your dad MUST follow the law Edna. Any action or inaction that has a disporportinate impact on any group covered under title vii of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as ammended is prima facie evidence of INTENT to violate the law. He can't just teach students who come prepared for college level work because if he did he would be in violation of Title vii of the Civil Rights Law.

Where have you been? Don't you KNOW the law is intended to help those who are less fortunate get an education? Why you racists!! Teach only students who are prepared? The federal marshalls and the FBI are probably on the way to your house right now.

response to question
Question:
"Can ANYONE tell me why these knothead professors have tenure and why such a concept is not available to other professions? Please this is a sincere question and I would love to know how this happened."

I can't tell you anything about knothead
professors - but professors get tenure after
several years of review - usually they have to
publish several articles in peer reviewed
journals or books on their topic by a respected
company (university press or major publisher).
Other things that go into gaining tenure -
student reviews and service to the college
(serving on boards, etc.)

You get through this and get approved you gain
tenure.

Tenure then grants the recipient more or less
carte blanche to write or say what one thinks
in a field without repercussions from the
administration - what is called academic
freedom. Most jobs do not have this because
1) you do not need it
2) your profession does not have a history
of firing people for their thoughts
3) you have not bargained for them

OUR CHANGING SOCIETY

.....When FDR went back to give a speech at his Alma Mater he was booed by a very Conservaitive audience ...and it was a very conservative Supreme Court that impeded FDR's socialist programs ...

.....The times change and our institutions change with them ...as the Romans found out before us .....COLOSSUS

Burt is wright
We don't have to go very far... Look at our so-called President, a product of Columbia and Harvard.
What did he tell Republican lawmakers? To stop listening to Rush and by implication, to conservative radio voices. He keeps a grudge, this little incompetent demagogue, he still needs his mama (or better grandma) to hold his pants...

I'm sure Obama would like to shut down the opposition, like all dictators do. Go find an opposition newspaper in Cuba or North Korea. It is much easier to govern without the opposition, like on college campuses.

That's the way the Ivy League thinks.

Always remember British Oxford(?)students in mid-late 1930's who issued a political manifesto: they won't fight for the queen and country (against the most oppressive, inhumane fascist regime in Germany?) And they did not; instead, they spied for Communists and Stalin against Western Democracies.

There are the roots of the problem; and today we see the results.

Dibs
Explains everything.
Friends in high places may in reality be friends in low places.

affirmative action
Maybe Dr. Doug can help me. Does classroom diversity change the way math works? Does 2+2 equal some other number because blacks are under represented in a class? Does physics change because there are blacks in a classroom? Does the reading of literature become more compelling with some number of blacks in a classroom? If you say yes and document how, then I guess historically black colleges have been graduating lesser educated black students all these years, eh? Colleges were the bastion of liberal education:that the Socratic method was used to stir the creative and critical thinking of youth. Now it is indoctrination, surrounded by poltical correctness, hidden by dogma

MaxPower
And who teaches them?

tenure
Most private colleges have tenure too.
My guess would be nearly all do.
All the professors I know in the Boston area
have it. And every major university in the U.S.
I am sure has it.

He's right
"...the last time I recall a movie about a professor that any normal person would wish to spend time with..."

I love his article, and I couldn't agree more with the above statement by Mr. Prelutsky, except there is one professor I'd love to spend time with...Indiana Jones!! (The character, not the actor!)

Mod Mark
Ok, so parents bear a big responsibility when getting their kids ready for life.

What type of parents do you see as being negligent in this regard?

Can anybody tell me
WHAT the Hell is so great about some pointy-headed ivory tower-dwelling navel-gazing self-important intellectuals who inhabit colleges all over the country? PLEASE tell me why we even need them other than to point out how useless you become by the time you know everything about nothing.

I LOVE how the press gushed over "professor" Robert P. Reich and his place in the Clinton Atrocity. He was NOT a professor. He was a LECTURER!!!!!!!

That is a title they give out for normally one of two reasons. Either the person merely offers periodic lectures and labors mostly outside of academia (think Lee Iaccoca lecturing MBA students) or like Reich they're SO incompetent but have been around so long they do want to grant tenure so they call them lecturers.

Have you EVER seen any real good in the REAL WORLD brought about by intellectuals? They look down on society from Mt. Olympus as it is. I think it was Baroness Thatcher who, upon hearing some puffed up piece of pseudointellectualism repeated said, "Only an intellectual could say anything that foolish."

These are the "Wizards of Smart" who expect us to swoon before them. Like Adelaide Stevenson they see themselves and NOT us as "the people who matter".

I am often reminded of Bill Buckley's rant that he'd rather be governed by the first 500 names in the Boston phone book than all the intellectuals in the Ivy League.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Ironic...
The closest thing I've seen to a caste system here in the U.S. was in the enlightened, pro-equality, pro-diversity halls of academia, when I worked as a T.A.

I was fortunate to work for Profs who were decent sorts, treated grad students like human beings, and who, for the most part, kept politics out of the classroom. But I saw enough of the self-important, narcissistic pompous-*ss types to realized just how lucky I was.

Kind of like being black in the antebellum South...the quality of life depended on who your massa was.

Burt
We haven't forgotten about you but Dr. Derryberry has been taking up everybody's time.

I am surprised you left out "Educating Rita".

Allow me to share one of Dr. D's student evaluations from ratemyprofessor.com:

"Oh god, kill me now. Classes so boring you'll be wanting to bite your own arm off for entertainment. The tests are only loosely based on lectures, but more-lecture based than book-based, so do your best to make sense of his boring ramblings."

Oddly, this was a "average quality" rating. I saw it suggested that his wife is worse.

Bad teaching is not new
Forty-seven years ago, I was a senior in a theological seminary. Counting the president of the seminary, there were fourteen men who taught there. Of these fourteen, only three truly taught in line with the historic position of the denomination–one taught English Bible and the other two taught church history. My Old Testament professor seemed inclined to hold to the documentary hypothesis, but he never forced it on his students; he understood that his work was to teach us how to read the Old Testament in its original languages.
After preaching my senior sermon, I handed the tape of it to the speech professor, asking him to comment on my delivery. A few days later, he gave it back, without any comment on my delivery, but with many on my handling the text, and his comments indicated that he thought my theology was bad.

Also
your situation with your kid doesn't really address the quality of teachers and their competence, does it?

The way I see it, teachers now are not held accountable, nor are they required to stay current with education. Thank unions and the NEA for that. It would go a long way toward improving public schools if they were held more acocuntable.

Teachers are simply not motivated to teach well anymore.

One More
Point.

It would also help if teachers were not forced to teach to the lowest common denominator.

To Wrat Wrangler
Re "Have you EVER seen any real good in the REAL WORLD brought about by intellectuals?"

Er, the Enlightenment? The American Revolution? The French Revolution? The nationalization of Europe? The transition from a world in which the people are governed not by Divine-Right monarchs (like Queen Elizabeth I) or the military (like Napoleon), but by leaders freely elected by the people? This change was not easy, and it took the better part of two centuries, but it was indeed formed by the thought, debate, and writing of intellectuals.

Sgt Relic
"I am surprised you left out "Educating Rita"."

I am surprised he left out "To Sir, With Love"!

THAT was an "average rating"??? I would love to see a really poor one!

;)

Georgetwin
It's been awhile since I was in college (late 80's) but I remember my history class well. The book we used was "A Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. I knew right away that all this book would talk about was the negative things about our country. Sure enough I was right. I'm wondering if that is still required reading material in college? If it is, I can see where a young mind can be easily indoctrinated. I'm sure that if it is still required reading material, it has been updated quite a bit.

Sheepdog
There still are classes that use that book as their textbook.

Gag.

I'm glad I've never had to read it.

All of us
"Adjunct Lecturers" know where our place is. All my colleagues that are adjuncts (15 to 20 years) will never be offered tenure regardless of how many books they publish, public service they perform, and journals that publish in. As one poster said, it is a caste system. The Ph.D hoop is the pound of flesh that is required prior to trying to enter the tenured club. All too often, the pound of flesh that is required produces geldings. I don't want to make blanket statements, however, the climate on campus is decidedly liberal, anti-Christian, anti-white male(a clear stereotyping).
I do know some tenured professors, associate professors, assistant professors, lectuers and instructors (hope I did not leave any out) that actually teach, love the truth, and encourage actual critical thinking and allow for a free exchange of ideas. Lastly, professors emeritus are usually retired, and put out to pasture.

To That CLOWN "Dr. Doug"
Dr(?) Doug:

Q. Are you a MEDICAL DOCTOR, or are you a (retired) PhD, possibly/probably in Education, who was happily tenured for the greatest part of your "career". If the latter, you have nothing of value to lend to this conversation.

lily,
"Re "Have you EVER seen any real good in the REAL WORLD brought about by intellectuals?"

Good response, reminiscent of "Life of Brian," i.e., "What did the Romans ever do for us?"

Of course it falls apart when I compare, say, Adams or Jefferson with Noam Chomsky or Ward Churchill.

Equating this current crowd with true intellectuals is like calling a Big Mac filet mignon..

And I don't know if I'd consider the French Revolution one of mankind's bright shining moments.

Black Prince
I have to admit I laughed at your reply. You are probably right, in this day and age how dare my father-in-law require some sort of standard? I believe he gets around this by trying to hire qualified elementary school teachers to fill the lower level English course teaching positions. That way students are being taught at their level.

What saddens him the most (and this part is for you Mod Mark) is that these students passed and even excelled in their high schools. They received relatively high marks on standardized testing. Many of them were straight A students back home.

By the markers set forth by our current system, these kids ARE ready for college. But when it comes to reality, they are caught completely uprepared when faced with even the simple question "Please find the preposition in this sentence" or "Please write a 5 point expository esssay on ----------". They can however tell the prof how they FEEL, and why they should be graded on their handwriting, even when it is required that work be typed.

CurtalFriar-SheepDog
I would sit in class and listen to these America Haters ranting and GRIND my teeth! Once I ground a filling loose. The thing is how STUPID are these idiots to denigrate the system of government that allows them to trash it? How many get away with it in a Muslim Country under Sharia Law?

max
as i have pointed out before i am an elected school board member.

your comment about teachers not being accountable may have been true at one time, but with no child left behind, they are specifically held accountable.

for example, here in california every school gives a yearly test to thier students.
if the school does not meet a minimum requirement 3 years in a row, the school can be closed or students may transfer to another school.

each individual classroom teacher is held accountable for showing gains in their classroom.

if the school does not improve, principals can be fired. if a class does not improve, teachers can be removed from the class and given evaluations and assignments that will lead to their dismissal.


Darn
"they publish in." and "lecturers." I'm old enough so that my proof reading works better on hard copy than electronic screens. Does anyone remember type writers and carbon papers? I wonder if using carbon paper again would increase our carbon foot print?

Mod Mark
"You would like my oldest, he hates his physic teacher who is a blatant liberal. He is a fiscal conservative in the making."

How do you know the guy is a liberal? If the guy spouts liberal rhetoric while trying to teach Physics, how much Physics could he be teaching??

I probably would like your oldest, when he's 21 tell him to have an ice cold pint of the black stuff for me.

YLG-SgtRelic
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=158835

vs.

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=215284

mod mark
how are you doing my friend.

you make a great point.

my son took AP and IB classes which are at the highest level, in fact you can get college credit if you pass an AP class and the AP national test.

the standards at my sons high school were very high.

of course, as he put it, there were the "dummy" classes, but college bound students did not take those.

he has adjusted to college quite well, in fact, he did better first semester of college than his last semester in high school.

hmmm....
Christianlib,

if No Child Left Behind is so successful, then why is public education continuing to drop in performance?

The educational level of our children is continuing to drop, and throwing money and programs at the system is not going to change anything.

It's interesting to note that sixty years ago, the education students received was much better than they receive today, and that was done without computers or the fancy equipment or programs of today.

Care to hazard a guess as to why that is, Christianlib?

christianlib
And have you ever seen a school get closed or a teacher get fired?

The way I understand it, the bar has been set so low to accommodate the slower students, or minority students that they could misspell CAT and still have a job.

And I'm not saying minorities are inferior in any way, but to restate what Mod Mark said earlier, minority, low-income families are guilty of being bad parents for the most part. So if a school is forced to accept these students in the name of "Diversity" and your kid is stuck in a class with one, good luck in getting that teacher to go beyond what is required to get the lowest common denominator to pass.

Universities and Newspapers
Pretty soon the money tree for universities is going to look like the one for the newspaper industry. Why? Because all the left wing garbage that is funded by tax dollars is going to dry up so these people won't be able to keep contributing to their favority charity - the indoctrination centers of America.

Hopefully conservatives have taken Dr. Walter Williams' advice to snap their wallets shut when asked by the local indoctrination center to contribute. He says that is the only language these places understand and affecting that area is the only way to get any significant policy change.

Thank again, Burt. BTW, I saw "The Absent Minded Professor" the other day. Can you believe the stupid basketball game in that one? Hilarious!

crutal friar
the basis of your question is false.

in acutality sat scores are up in most areas since 1972.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883611.html



now there has been ups and downs, but your anti-intellectual assumptions are out dated.

you say this

"The educational level of our children is continuing to drop, and throwing money and programs at the system is not going to change anything."

"It's interesting to note that sixty years ago, the education students received was much better than they receive today, and that was done without computers or the fancy equipment or programs of today."


i have proven the first statement wrong.

as far as your second statement, without knowledge of computers you cannot function in the workplace these days so these "fancy" gadgets are necessary.

i will tell you that teachers tell me computers are good for some instruction like reading and science, but are not as effective in math. (because a computer cannot diagnose what your problem is, just that you are wrong).

the use of computers is more of a learning to function in the 21st century than a learning tool.

And as far as....
No Child Left Behind, check this out under School Accountability and NCLB.

http://www.answers.com/topic/no-child-left-behind#after_ad1

max power
i have seen a number of schools shut down or reorganized into charters.

as far as teachers, i was very careful with my words.

in a low performing school, my district dismissed 12 teachers.
they were reassigned and given duties which led to the resignation of half of them.

you are right in your inference that it is difficult to fire teachers but if you take them and put them in situations they hate, you can effectively move them out of the system.


Christianlib
I worked as a writing tutor in a local community college, and I can testify that many of the students that came in for help at the writing lab had abominable literary skills....in spite of high grades and scores.

Their reading comprehension was awful and their writing ability even worse.

These were kids who had graduated high school with high scores.

Something is wrong somewhere.

Also
Under NCLB, each state sets its own benchmark or target to show how it has shown progress.

This is inviting abuse of the system.

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/education_act.htm

"Under NCLB, states are required to test students annually and demonstrate continual progress toward a federal goal with all students reaching "proficiency" on state-level tests by 2014. Some states have responded to this pressure by changing how their tests are scored to allow more students to pass and to show more progress under NCLB"

Christianlib
I agree that students need to know how to use a computer, but what that means practically is that they need to know how to use MS Word and the like and have basic computer skills.

That can be solved by requiring them to take a Computer class sometime in high school that will teach them how to use Word, how to navigate Windows, and basically how to use the Internet.

When it comes to English, Science, and Math, they need to learn the facts....lots and lots of memorization, and writing exercises, and less feel-good activities.

Also, the idea that they need to teach to the lowest denominator has to stop. The bar needs to be set high, and they need to make the students work hard.

modmark
teaching to the test is a problem.

we have had a couple teachers and principals dismissed for that, and i mean fired.

my son had a geometry teacher who did not teach things chonologically, she just taught the areas that she knew would be on the test.

this is not illegal but it made it difficult when my son went to the next level.

Christianlib
You are correct in saying that scores have risen since the 70's. But do not look past the fact that the test standards have been deliberately simplified in order to obtain these false "higher" scores, and to allow more students to qualify for college/university.

Please refer to Dr. Sowell's many books on the subject of education. If I remember correctly these standards have been lowered in significant ways at least 3 times.

Dear Curtal Friar
Freshman English 101 is now basically remedial. 102, which deals with research papers, now must introduce basic critical thinking and hope that one quarter/semester will do something. Advanced composition is gone. Other disciplines lament the English Department's ability to send students to them that can write. Research indicates that the best writers are avid readers. Readers of more than "Jonny has two mommies" that is. Most "Great Books" curricula are replaced with "Cinema," and "Qu$$r theory."
Good luck in your endeavors.

curtal friar
you make some good points.

most high schools these days have what are called "advanced placement" classes that are essentially college courses.

those classes do not teach down they teach up.

as far as computers, they learn what you mention in grade school now.

my son had to do power point presentations in most of his classes. also had to do spread sheets for math classes.

College Professors
In my experience, immature and petty are pretty good descriptors. Regarding movie portrayals, don't forget "The Visitor", a pretty unlikable, self-absorbed fellow just going through the motions.

This Entire Thread
shows why Prelutsky's rant is just another, entirely predictable whine from the anti-intellectual right wing. The attitude ranges from "I hate them because they are liberals" regardless of what they teach to "I hate them because they teach subjects I don't like,: regardless of whether they are liberals or not.

The most conservative professor I ever had taught Shakespeare. Some of you would have despised him for not teaching Math or Science. One of the most liberal guys I ever knew taught robotics. Some of you would have hated him because he was a liberal.

The fact is that all of you, if you have children, want your kids to get college degrees and will send them to the best school you can manage. The latest employment data indicates that while unemplotment for college grads exploded to 4%, it stands at double digits for those without college degrees.

Whine all you want, but everybody knows what you are actually going to do. Nothing.l



edna
mr. sowell saying it does not make it true.

for example, 2 years ago they added a writing sample that students must pass which was never part of the exam before.

i suggest you look at a practice SAT and then decide whether it has become easier.

How to not perish by publishing
profblog wrote:
"Adjunct Lecturers" know where our place is. All my colleagues that are adjuncts (15 to 20 years) will never be offered tenure regardless of how many books they publish, public service they perform, and journals that publish in."

I can't speak for your subject, but in history
if you wrote a major book in your subject
as an adjunct you could parlay that into a
tenure track position. You are right to add
that the public service or student recs are
not as important to gaining tenure as publishing in the right journals or a book.

And this is important for people on TH to note
it is the scholarship and not necessarily the
teaching that gets one tenure.


curtal friar
i have no doubt that "some" schools are not meeting the students needs. in my district we have both great schools and low performing schools.

so for example, a student could get good grades in a low performing school but not learn as much or be as competent as an average student from a higher performing school.

i will tell you this, the best students from any high school go to a 4 year universtiy.

those that go to community college usually did not qualify for a university.
there is a stigma attached to going to community college.

my son calls it the "fifth year of high school."

sheepdog
"It's been awhile since I was in college (late 80's) but I remember my history class well. The book we used was "A Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. I knew right away that all this book would talk about was the negative things about our country. Sure enough I was right. I'm wondering if that is still required reading material in college? If it is, I can see where a young mind can be easily indoctrinated. I'm sure that if it is still required reading material, it has been updated quite a bit."


My kid rightly pointed out that any book or printed material that starts out with "A People's..." is code for leftist rhetoric and communism.

Dr.douglas
We have the republican party that makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart. And you accuse me of overgeneralizing??
=================
I will not disagree with you on the intelligence
of the men. You have to be smart to reach the positions that these men have attained.

But they are fools, and a good education makes them extremely dangerous fools. I'm sure you can identify with them.

ModMark says:
****Concerning "lots and lots of memorization", by 7th grade they are using graphing calculator to to plot complex functions.****

True. But watch what happens and the blank stares you get when you hand them a sheet of paper and a pencil and tell them to solve the problem 159 x 637.

Or ask them to add up 134 + 597 in their heads.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the right answer.

mod mark
you are truely knowledgable and a level headed person.

i believe in the european model of sending students who dislike school or who cannot perform at a high level to a vocational high school based on tests in the 4th and 8th grade.

it would eliminate most discipline problems but as in most higher level classes, there is not a problem with discipline as they are all trying to get the grades they need to get to the university they want to go to.


christianlib
As to Dr Sowell say what you want about him but one thing no reasonable person can argue is that he does not offer support for his point of view. He is meticulous about citing his resources. So I will believe him over others who are not so diligent.

And edna never said the test was easier she said it has been noted the standards have been lowered. Why do you libs constantly misrepresent what is said?

ModMark says:
****Community college is where the lower performing student generally end up. Judging the quality of students based on those who could not get into 4 year college is not reasonable.****

Some of the students are what you say. More are there because it's a more affordable way to get the first couple years of College done.

Regular universities are more expensive, regardless of whether it's the first year gen ed requirements, or the core of your major. Why spend outrageous sums on your gen ed when you can go to a community college and get it done for about a quarter of the price?

n
since i have not read specifically what dr. sowell said and can only go on empirical data, please produce any evidence you have that standards have been lowered.

second, as i pointed out, they have now added a writing sample which makes the standards higher by its very existance.

why do some conservatives support conservative writers without checking on the facts and coming to their own conclusions.

"dr. sowell says it, so it must be true" is not intellectually honest nor is it a good way to go through life.

Community college
"Community college is where the lower performing student generally end up."

While in some cases this may be true, a large segment of CC students are there because they are adults going back to school. When I went to take some specific computer classes, the average age of students at our local CC was 41..



curtal friar
the reason for getting general education courses at a university rather than a community college is exactly what you point out.

4 year university has a higher caliber of student and hence, a higher academic standard.

community colleges vary in quality.

some are good some are not.

So-called C-lib
You handle is still offensive - are you better than athiest liberals or Christian conservatives? Christians shouldn't boast that way.

Anyway, the NCLB act timetable is rather stupid, isn't it? If the kid suffers through THREE successive years of poor education, he will be irretrievably lost! He/she will be a drug dealer, liberal, unwed parent, or supersizing your happy meal - or all four.

alan
you are correct in some cases, it depends on the area around the community college.

we have quite a few in my city, and some are strictly for post secondary while others are more into retraining of adults.

Christianlib
That's not what I said at all.

The majority of students who go to community colleges are not lower caliber students.

They are there to save money.

Community colleges are cheaper, and they are easier to fit into your work schedule, and since many of the students who go to them are working adults, the Community college is preferable to the four year university, at least for the gen ed.

What you said about community colleges also applies to four year universities. Some are good, some are not. There are some stellar universities, and there are some truly abominable ones. They are not by nature better than community colleges just because they are four year universities.

Rising standards
Large well-known state-related college (you've heard of it) here in PA has Math 104, which is college algebra.

If you need remedial work before that, you take Math 40.

If you can't hack Math 40, you take Math 4.

If you can't do Math 4, you take Math 1.

If you have to take Math 1, you have about one chance in 100 of graduating.

Question: Why do you even need Math 140, as you should have had it in highschool?

dr dimwit douglas
finally a modicum of truth from oregon's favorite idiot. Oh course it's easy for you to recognize stupidity, you wallow in it daily with your leftist ignorance and delusion you have something to say

rich d
i am sorry that my nick name offends you, and no i am not better than anyone.

in fact, i am a sinner like everyone else who struggles with my personal demons every day

i am however proud to be a Christian and a liberal and if you have a problem with that it is your issue not mine.

as far as your comment about nclb, remember that it was set up by the bush administration and of course, it is not the panacea for all educational objectives.

on the other hand, the first year a school is put on the "list of underperforming schools" it qualifies for more funds to train its teachers better and more funds to reduce class size and so forth.

if it still shows no improvement, then it is closed or transitioned.

yes, some students may suffer but students and parents are offered the right to transfer to another school immediately.


christianlib and Mod Mark
"why do some conservatives support conservative writers without checking on the facts and coming to their own conclusions."

Probably for the same reasons some liberals swallow whatever is being peddled on Huffington as gospel.

Anyhoo, please read my earlier posts regarding NCLB and what some states are doing to "meet" standards.

I think the whole argument that things are so much more difficult now with computers and robotics and all is bogus. It's just technological progress. They don't teach kids how to use a plow in school anymore because it's not relevant anymore. They are supposed to teach about computers because they ARE relevant skills.


christian lib
"the reason for getting general education courses at a university rather than a community college is exactly what you point out.

4 year university has a higher caliber of student and hence, a higher academic standard.

community colleges vary in quality.

some are good some are not."



That is a perfect example of elitism. My daughter's best friend is currently going to the local Community College. In High School she was a straight A student at all of her courses, which were all AP courses, including Calculus, Physics, and all of the Liberal Arts. She was offered a full ride by many colleges including UCLA but chose the community college instead. You made an assumption based in elitism without any knowledge.

I also see you are dismissing Dr. Sowell out of hand because he is conservative. That also is not academic and elitist. Try reading his books and refuting him, which is quite different than dismissing him.

ModMark
"I often wonder if we judge our school unfairly by looking at those who fail instead of those who succeed.

A kid who does not want to learn can achieve his goal quite easily in school.

Judge a school by the top 30% for example."


What you fail to notice is we have a higher failure rate and it has increased with each decade. However, I would not necessarily put that off on all the schools.

curtal friar
sorry if i misinterpreted you.

i do believe, however, that in most cases, you will get a better education in a 4 year university than a community college.


christianlib
The reason I reference Dr. Sowell is because is books are heavily referenced. He is VERY good at using data produced by impartial sources. You are right just because he says it doesn't make it true. But, he didn't just say it. He backed up his conclusions with hard data from the tests writers themselves, and with tests and data starting from the beginning of standardized testing in this country.

I have researched many options for standardized testing. As a homeschool parent I am fully aware of current standards. They are, quite frankly, PATHETIC!!! According to standardized testing (which we are required to take by law), my very normal, under 10 year old children, are in what public schools call "middle school" to "high school" level material.
As to a required "writing sample"---don't make me laugh.

And thank you for your very condescending "suggestion" that I look at a practice SAT test---I have, it's a pathetic joke, one that ceased to be funny quite awhile ago.


Dear everyonesfacts
An independant organization that did a rating of all departments at my school two years ago noted that even a person with a Ph.D that worked as an adjunct was not allowed to teach courses of record (300+ level courses). That stopped them from ever adding to their resume so as to allow them to enter job searches with "experience." The agency noted that the adjunct system was essentially, a gulag. Kudos to your school.

lolo1
good morning or afternoon, its about noon.

i have to go soon so i will miss the pleasure of debating you extensively.

two quick responses.

if you read carefully my response on sowell, i said that i had not read him and asked the poster to provide documentation.

i did not say sowell was wrong because he was conservative i said it was wrong to believe anything he said just because he was a conservative.

i would say the same thing to a liberal poster who quoted a liberal writer.

i have no doubt that there are very excellent community colleges and that some straight A students go there for financial reasons.

but be serious here, isnt the goal of your daughters friend to get to a 4 year university?


Douglas is really there. Be charitable.
He is a retired psych prof who studied emotion, which is why his student evaluators called him boring and one wanted to chew his arm off to relieve the boredom. Look him up as Derryberry at Oregon. Don't try to find too many papers, however, as he appears to have spent most of his time as the AAUP president.


Now, you have to have a little more forebearance when he reposts the same criticism at the beginning of each new article. It took him quite a while to compose it and learn how to spell "dishonest", "hack", and "smear", and it is now a truly excellent work worthy of continuing republication. We look forward to its next reprint. His wife is quite proud of his accomplishment.

Christianlib
Have you EVER read Dr. Sowell? I have and he cites all his resources so he could easily know if he is lying. Its what makes me believe what he says. He makes his case on resources you can look up for yourself why dont you try reading his books and checking out his resources?

YOU are the one who said "dr. sowell says it, so it must be true" why are you trying to attribute that to someone else? Talk about intellectually honest

ModMark says:
****Kids are still taught to add and subtract on paper. This is done in elementary grade levels.****

I don't disagree with you, but here's what I have seen from personal experience:

Young people working at stores who can't count back money to you when they're giving you change. Young people who when presented with almost any kind of math problem that they must do in their heads become helpless, like a deer caught in the headlights of a vehicle.

I think they get so used to using the tools, and having all the hard work done for them by calculators and computers, that when they have to do without, are almost totally lost.

Mark, even my generation (those in their early forties) can't hold a candle to our grandparents when it comes to math skills. My grandfather can do any math problem in his head without breaking a sweat, and that is not unusual for his generation.

edna
Dont bother, christianlib has no intention of engaging in a conversation. Good for you and homeschooling. Homeschooling in FL has increased by almost 50%. People are getting tired of the garbage that passes for education these days at the local indoctrination centers. Keep up the good work you are training the future of America

christianlib
No one believes Dr Sowell because he is liberal, NO ONE said that but YOU. We believe him because he cites all his resources. At least be clear when you discuss matters please.

Dear C-lib
It IS my problem when the word Christian is used as a modifer like that, regardless of the noun being modified. There are no Christian businesses, either. I am told to make it my problem, so I did.

Regarding the NCLB act, I don't care who wrote, passed, and signed it - it is still junk and none of the federal government's constitutional business. Those involved violated their oaths of office passing it.

Lolo1
I noticed Chloe just made an appearance on Carol Platt Liebau's current thread, so I went back to Ann Coulter's last thread to find the time when Chloe posted her gem for the ages on that thread that we now remember so well - "Black Americans cannot by definition be racist" - AND DISCOVERED IT'S GONE! Although in my first response to it, I DID at least note the TIME she had posted it: 5:55 pm.

I sure hope that some conservative didn't flag THAT post by Chloe as offensive; that is just the kind of post we WANT people to see! Maybe some of her fellow liberals who come to this site, seeing the corner she painted herself into and figuring they were doing her a favor, flagged her post to try to get it off the site and save her from further embarassment.

So now I guess Chloe can deny she ever said this - and there's no post anyone can find on TownHall anymore to call her a liar. Of course, she'd have a hard time explaining why SEVERAL conservatives on Coulter's thread, not just you and I, cited her statement subsequent to her posting it - but hey, like with the photograph in Orwell's 1984 that Winston Smith insisted to his torturer O'Brien he remembered, once O'Brien incinerated a copy of that very same photograph right in Smith's sight, he insisted it simply never existed in the first place, and there was no longer anything tangible to contradict him, except Smith's "faulty" memory!

Prelutsky is unfair

Look, Burt--

Lay off the profs; you're a heavyweight and these guys mostly lightweights. Pick on those who know how to defend themselves. You're perfectly right on the Hollywood point. They're only in movies to do slapstick. A funny script for Dr Douglas:

" . . . all these right-wingers in this country trying to undermine the teaching of science (e.g., evolution) to our children."

[With a slight snarl]

(Italics on) In fact, learning evolution alongside the alternatives of Intelligent Design and Creationism-- isn't bad for our children. It provokes the thought process and wouldn't "undermine" anything. (Italics off)

". . . the republican party which consistently tries to limit federal and state money devoted to education."

Haha!, Funny! A real boffo: Democrats squelching any chance of school vouchers, so there's double taxation for whoever sends a child to private school.

"Republican party makes fun of intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart. . . accuse me ofovergeneralizing."

No-- you're just crediting liars for smarts. Gore's about as smart as a mothball. Kerry was smart despite being ugly; he married two rich women, somehow. Obama's smart & heard racist sermons and lies in church for over 20 years, only they didn't connect. Why?

CORRECTION
I meant we dont believe Dr Sowell because he is conservative NOT liberal

Mod Mark
"Comparing the standardized test results from a upper middle class suburb and the inner city school will only prove that, the quality of student is much lower in the inner city schools."

So those parents that live in the inner city are not as good at raising children than those parents that live in the suburbs?

Would it be fair to say that the majority of those parents in the inner city are minorities? Are they the ones on welfare or some type of government assistance?

So when these "bad parents" send their ill-equipped child to your child's classroom, and the teacher has to make sure everyone passes and lowers the standards.....see where I'm going here?

What do you do about it?

Max
Be carefull Max you are making too much sense.

Mod Mark
"The ability to perform math in your head is not a true test of all your math skills."

uh....what??

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!

You're ok in my book, but that statement is deserving of the Billy Madison Quote....

Edna
"Be carefull Max you are making too much sense."

I've never been accused of THAT before!!!

I taught affirmative action "students"
in an engineering school. They couldn't even write legible papers for me to grade, and we are talking EE problems with very few words. I had to call them in to my office to read their homework to me. It was cruel to let them into a top-tier engineering school.

Many of the other students showed evidence of too much reliance on calculators and computers, and couldn't tell whether their answers were off by orders of magnitude (that's a misplaced decimal point - it looks like this: "." - for you psych profs in Oregon).

At least when the students used a slide rule back in the 60s, they had a better feel for the expected answer. (No, 1000 HP won't pull that 100 car freight, and 100,000 won't fit into a few power units!)

Hey Goshawk! Super
Response to Burt's super article. I too wonder what it's going to take to get the 62 M lemmings to wake up. The Big O is leading this country down a yellow brick road to socialism and we can thank the Woodstock Generation for their infiltration of our halls of learning.

willibeaux
Here's at least one member of the "Woodstock" generation who isn't on the Obama train. Quite a few of us have grown up.

With the responsibility
Responsibility comes along with power. There are a good percentage of minority wealthy persons in America. Yet they are voting with their pocketbooks to not finance the UNCF institutions just as their own schools. Yet the funny thing according to all surveys the African american is donating at a higher rate than anyone else in America. Lou Rawls have passed on and it is not the same Parade of Stars,the national fund raiser for the historic black colleges. Bill Cosby would be a great face for such honor. Politics would never allow such thing to happen. Diversity has to include political differences for a people to grow. The schools do not have to compromise their faith nor mission, they all have a christian connection.

Mod Mark
"That's your conservative side speaking, do it like the good old days..."

Not at all, I've had some engineering and mechanical design training and in my mind if the calculation is that important it can wait for the calculator.

BUT

That doesn't demonstrate math skills, it just shows you read the instructions for the calculator.

"Us lefties prefer to use graphing calculators."

Does this mean you will finally drop the "Mod" from your moniker??

Max and LeftyMark
The math classes I took in high school did allow the use of calculators, but we still had to write all our problems out. We could use our calculators to check our work, but you had to be able to do the problems without them.

It's my personal opinion that learning to do math strictly on paper and in one's head without electronic aid is better intellectually for the student, if for no other reason than it sharpens the mind.

Mod Mark
"Since my youngest "tax deduction" now attends a Catholic school, I clearly side with the right concerning school vouchers."

lol, but I see that you disapprove of the job schools are doing too.

"Us moderates can be quite flexible on issues when needed."

Yes, a lack of a spine will allow you to be infinitely flexible....

Ok, sorry for that, I couldn't help myself...

gee, mod mark

For the longest time I thought you called yourself Mod as in modern. I never took you for a moderate. More liberal than moderate.

Know what Rush says moderates really are?

I'm not a far-right Republican; nor moderate either. Just the dang dinosaur who won't die in Toon Hall. A Chauvinist lover-not-a-fighter.

Shorts #114
Sure, those schools may survive, but what about everyone else that doesn't have such a large endowment? They depend on people like you, me and everybody else giving them some money. Also, didn't we hear that those endowments took hits of 25 to 30%?

As for "cheap conservative schools like BYU" we'll see what happens. As for BYU in particular, they don't accept any federal assistance so they truly do depend on contributions. Last I heard they were doing fine.

Also, FYI I went to the University of Utah - now a liberal bastian begging for money from us cheap conservatives.

Too smart
"... intelligent candidates (Gore, Kerry, Obama) because they are too smart."

Too smart to be honest? Too smart to have integrity? Too smart to work in the best interests of their constituents instead of solely themselves?

Too clever, by half, indeed.

Dufas_Brainard

Dufas_Brainard
Location: WI
Reply # 4
Date: Feb 23, 2009 - 1:12 AM EST a sunny day
Hello
~~~

Dufas_Brainard ? Are ye puzzled laddie?

hey, is it sunny where you are? we got some sun at dang near 6 of the clock.

Heck. just a "hello" does not leave a lot of clues. Are ye fer us or agin us?

Have a happy.

May I suggest "Canadian Club". it does help fight the cold.

You folks in MN and WI seem to have problems wit dat.

OMG, you other half dozen or so in those states, please do not think I tar you with the same brush.




HEY I HAVE AN IDEA

.....Let's just let the blacks take over and run the Country ...it worked so well in South Africa and Rhodesia/Zimbabwe .....COLOSSUS

Why did the author
slyly fail to describe the student's ongoing anti-gay rhetoric during the term (in a classroom likely populated by at least one gay student; maybe the professor is gay, also)? "Christians" seem to think they can hide behind pretending to be Christians to promote their hatred of homosexuals. I think the student in a classroom does not have the right to free (hate) speech in front of a captive audience. Even the overly conservative US Supreme Court said it was ok for the Alaska school system to censor the "Bong hits for Jesus" sign even when it wasn't on school property, but in the possession of a student.

Religion is not a good reason to promote hate speech, especially before a captive student audience. I think this professor over-reacted a little but maybe he's a homosexual who's tired of being bashed by "Christians" who claim that the Bible says that homosexuality is sinful and homosexuals should be killed.

Hateful "Christians" just need to get help for their homophobia. Real Christians have much bigger issues to face.

American Public Schools Are For Losers
Institutions that do not measure or reward its employees by Customer Satisfaction are nothing more than ideological production facilities.

Our Public Schools operate, bonus and pay on production numbers: How many students?; How many pass?; How many need free lunch/breakfast?; How many in a class-room?; How many pass standarized tests?

The schools are run by and for political ideology as defined by teachers, unions, politicians and board member elites that have time to meddle.

Vouchers scare these guys. Vouchers puts the power in the Customers' hands. With vouchers, the unwashed minions of ignorant, low-life parents become the authority of how their kids are taught. Scary!

Just imagine, schools having to mold their institutions to attract the unwashed's money! You know, like engineers of cars, trucks, houses, health-care, computers, software ... and so on do every day.

Who made the iphone? Hint: Engineers working for Customer demand/money!

Who made Ford and Lexus? Hint: Engineers working for Customer demand/money!

Who made Kaiser Permanente? Hint: Engineers working for Customer demand/money!

By the same token, who made our lousy schools? Hint: Engineers working for ideological fundings.

Rich D.
Rich D.
Location: PA
Reply # 174
Date: Feb 23, 2009 - 3:43 PM EST I taught affirmative action "students"
in an engineering school. They couldn't even write legible papers for me to grade, and we are talking EE problems with very few words. I had to call them in to my office to read their homework to me. It was cruel to let them into a top-tier engineering school.

Many of the other students showed evidence of too much reliance on calculators and computers, and couldn't tell whether their answers were off by orders of magnitude (that's a misplaced decimal point - it looks like this: "." - for you psych profs in Oregon).

At least when the students used a slide rule back in the 60s, they had a better feel for the expected answer. (No, 1000 HP won't pull that 100 car freight, and 100,000 won't fit into a few power units!)

~~~

Rich D. as a former college prof, I must agree with you. Electrical Engineering here, too. Ah. The slide rule! Mine was a Post, What a hoot!

Pull the slide out, shove it backwards and solve those trig problems.

Ever do that? You dated yourself with word sliderule. You are an old phart!
Me too.

That cool leather scabbard hanging from your belt, told everyone you were a cool geek. A proud member of the crowd.

Burt,
Again I offer the fine meal. You turned me down, saying ye dinna like to travel.

Me too. anyway, a thousand of your fans would show up at the Rat's barbecue.
And, I am a good cook.

Open offer here.

Teaser?

UH LILLY
Napoleon came AFter the French revolution...

Besides, are you sure you want the French Revolution in your list. Ever heard of the Terror?

Mod Mark
"Us lefties prefer to use graphing calculators.
"

Real engineers use Matlab.

WHERE'S Dr DOUGLAS
What say you doc?

I think I know
Dr. Douglas is at the Academy Awards after-party; it ends on Ash Wednesday.


oh the agenda..
"Hateful "Christians" just need to get help for their homophobia. Real Christians have much bigger issues to face".(poor jeffrey) ,Real christians know that homosexual activities are sins and will testify to others that they dont have to choose to sin as they know Christ died for theirs sins,but rose again to give the victory over their sin,and help thru the holy spirit,as a moral guide . The only ones hating here are those that hate to admiit the truth that Gay is not ok with God.

max
you wrote, "Us lefties prefer to use graphing calculators." thats breath taking honesty, max, but you should learn to spell better. graft is spelled "graft", not "graphing". take a hint from me, when i dont know how to spell a word, i just select one i do know how to spell. try this, "us lefties prefer corruption and political pay-off calculators."

Hey sinner
Are you so sure that homosexuality is a sin that you would put a homosexual to death, as the Bible instructs? What’s stopping you?

Wouldn't it be ironic if it turns out that Jesus Christ was a homosexual? I mean, we don't really know his sexual preference. He didn't marry and have kids, that we know of. If homosexuals occur in nature among humans at a rate of 10%, there's logically a 10% chance that Christ was gay. I wonder, therefore, if it makes much sense for "Christians" to trash homosexuals and homosexual behavior, knowing that Christ might be a homosexual.

I think it would be refreshing if Christians would police their own for the far more grave matters of adultery and divorce. Homosexuality and same-sex marriage are small potatoes compared to these other two. I don’t think it will happen because too many Christians want to keep their options open for committing adultery and divorce. I don’t think we’ll ever see a time when Christians advocate making adultery or divorce illegal, as they do with same-sex marriage.

stop this shhit jeffrey
You sin only if you indulge in homosexual acts. But even the act can be forgiven; you must repent.

That's what the Bible teaches. No one advocates carrying out the Mosaic Law.

That means you ARE in sin. That means nobody will try to hurt you for it in Ameri