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Monday, August 04, 2008
Burt Prelutsky :: Townhall.com Columnist
Jesse Helms and Me
by Burt Prelutsky
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Although I very much regret that I never had the chance to meet Jesse Helms, we did have what you might call a peripheral connection. The first took place nearly 20 years ago, when I was serving the second of my two terms on the Board of the Writers Guild of America.

Because the Board had the authority to mete out any sum less than $5,000 without putting it to a vote of the membership, groups and individuals were constantly showing up at our meetings and requesting $4,999. Often, they wanted it to help defray legal expenses in censorship cases, and because censorship is always a hot button issue with writers, and because most of the Board members were liberals, with a liberal sprinkling of ex-Communists, it figures that we usually coughed up the dough. Leftists, after all, are notorious spendthrifts when it comes to other people’s money.

On this one particular occasion, it was Robert Mapplethorpe’s lawyers who came hat in hand. Mapplethorpe, in case he’s slipped your mind, was a pornographer -- whoops, I mean a photographer -- whose work mainly consisted of frontal nudity shots of homosexual males and prepubescent boys and girls. He had also wowed the effete snobs who inhabit the art world with his Crucifix in Urine.

In any case, Sen, Jesse Helms had used the work of Mr. Mapplethorpe as a reason to cut off government funding of the National Endowment of the Arts. Inasmuch as I agreed with the senator’s low opinion of the NEA, and as I have always opposed tax dollars going to fund art, I voted against forking over good money to help Mapplethorpe fight an obscenity charge.

To convince a liberal that something is art, I came to realize, you merely have to put a frame around it. On more than one occasion, that “something” has not merely figuratively, but literally, been human excrement.

I’m not certain after all these years what Sen. Helms said when he railed against the NEA, but it goes without saying that he was excoriated by the New York Times and the rest of the liberal press. For my part, I was opposed to the NEA for two main reasons. One, in a country this large and prosperous, any artist who couldn’t support himself was in need of vocational guidance, not a government handout. Two, any no-talent poseur who applied to the NEA and didn’t get an endowment could be counted on to insist he was a political martyr being censored by Big Brother, and would inevitably show up in our boardroom, demanding $4,999 of the members’ money.

I wasn’t terribly surprised when I was out-voted 18-1 that evening. Heck, Sen Helms didn’t succeed in eliminating the NEA, either, and he had a lot more influence than I did. Even before the vote was taken, the outcome was a foregone conclusion. It was enough that Jesse Helms was on the other side. So not only did my fellow Board members get to align themselves with the headline-grabbing artiste, but got to thumb their noses at a Southern conservative. They were getting a lot of bang for their 4,999 bucks.

For my part, I got a lot of funny looks from my colleagues. It was as if I had shown myself to be one of those pod people from “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” It was probably just as well that my second term was drawing to a close.

The second time the senator’s path and mine nearly crossed was when I was trying to line up people for my book of interviews, “The Secret of Their Success.” Even though I was eventually able to interview the likes of Gerald Ford, Billy Wilder, Henry Mancini, Gene Kelly, Steve Allen, Ginger Rogers, Art Linkletter, Michael Medved, Dinah Shore, Dennis Prager, Bernard Goldberg, Pat Sajak, George Carlin and Ward Connerly, it was never easy lining up subjects.

The most surprising thing is how often people would simply ignore my query letters. These were people, after all, who had scads of secretaries and platoons of personal assistants to take care of such matters.

My own attitude was that nobody owed me an hour or two of their time, but, as I wasn’t asking to borrow money, I felt I deserved the courtesy of a response even if it was no more than a “Thanks, but no thanks.” At least I could then scratch their names off my wish list.

Frankly, you’d be amazed at the hundreds of people, men and women, young and old, liberals and conservatives, who never bothered responding.

The fact is, Jesse Helms didn’t agree to be interviewed. However, he did have a letter sent to me in which he thanked me for my interest, but said that his busy schedule prevented his accepting my kind invitation to join such distinguished company, and wishing me luck with the book. As if that wasn’t enough, a few days later he had his secretary phone me from Washington to again thank me for my interest, while passing along Sen. Helms’s best wishes.

So far as I’m concerned, he was not only a great senator, he was a very nice man. A real mensch, as we say. And I’m only sorry that I never had a chance to meet him and tell him so face to face.

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About The Author
W. Burt Prelutsky is an accomplished, well-rounded writer and author of "The Secret of Their Success: Interviews with Legends and Luminaries."
 
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Burt: Excellet! 5 Stars!

Loved this, "... any artist who couldn’t support himself was in need of vocational guidance, not a government handout."

How true!


Opps.. Sorry.. EXCELLENT!
.

Senator Helms
When my son was a Senate page during his high school junior year, he had nothing but good to say about Senator Helms. The Senator was a sort of advocate for the pages, seeing to it that they got to meet any visiting dignitaries and generally trying to make their experience in Washington D.C. a positive and valuable time. He will be sorely missed.

Thanks for another great article Burt!
We are losing all the good guys in Washington. Tony Snow, Jesse Helms....

Who is left???

That's a laugh.
You asked Jesse for an interview, and he blew you off; not even personally, but through one of his flunkies; and for this you are ready to install him in some kind of a Polite Bigot Hall of Fame.

You are a bigger moron than I thought.

AlphaOmega
So, are you bucking for the Asinine Comment of the Year Award?

You'll have to do better than that.

Great article
I see the peanut gallery is here in the form of AlphaOmega, the virulent anti Christian ideologue. No debate, just name calling right out of the gate.

Jeese Helms was the last of the senators who understood the need to respond to his constituents. No wonder he was elected so many times.

"Nearly 20 years ago..."
Robert Mapplethorpe was dying a most gruesome death from a thing, soon after that called AIDS. Back then, I think they thought they got that disease from drinking fountains, or something. Gawd, must be great to "get your way" and die at age 42.

So, Burt, we see that living well is the best revenge. Living long ain't bad either.

Crucifixes in Urine
Dear Mr. Prelutsky---

I could be wrong about this (although I don't think so), but the blasphemous "P*ss Christ"
was a product of Andres Seerrano, rather than Robert Mapplethorpe.

Censorship
It never ceases to amaze me that the liberals scream “censorship” when the Senator tried to cut off public money to such trash as the “cross in urine”. To me it just illustrates the total ignorance of most people to what the first amendment really means. It should be obvious the most ignorant observer that freedom of speech does not give you the “right” to public money to support what you wish to call art. Not only that, but all support for the NEA is unconstitutional to begin with. Since it was created in 1965 under a Communist Congress with a Communist president (LBJ) one would expect it to be unconstitutional.

As for Jessie Helms I am sure the race baiters will be on here screaming about what a racist he was because he opposed their favorite give-away programs and set-asides. My response is, TS, get over it.

To David Gonzalez
You are correct - Andres Serrano, not Robert Mapplethorp was the "artist" about the "P*ss Christ". I just learned not to mess with Townhall since I wrote a reply and used the full title of the Serrano "art" and I was summarily voted off the island! Well, we live and learn. I see words on this site everyday worse than the words to describe Serrano's "art", awful that it was. It is a lesson well learned.

David Gonzalez
You are correct. The picture that made Maplethorpe famous was the bullwhip insertion.

GLOBALISTS HATED JESSE HELMS

As I clicked on the three videos with Jesse Helms face on it and the logo for the United States Senate to the left of this article I was surprised that a video popped up about the Beijing Olympic Games instead of Senator Jesse Helms as advertised. How ironic?

Afterall, it was Senator Jesse Helms who always blocked Communist China's most favored trading status as Chairman of the Senate Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Senator Helms would always factually refute Communist China's entrance by providing evidence of atrocities as well as unbelieveable child labor slavery going on in the country.
Just the other night I saw a documentary about Chinese who sell their children on the black market because of the one child rule in order not to have to pay a fine. The fine is so expensive that they could not afford to survive
any other way. The documentary showed how over 70,000 thousand children were kidnapped each year too. Couples who do not have a child will pay big money for a male child they can raise as their own for a kind of Insurance policy when they reach old age. It was really sad.

I'll bet Helms would find it amusing too that townhall.com advertises a video of him but when you click it.........the video pops up about the Beijing Olympics.....Probably some Globalist working there in Arlington at the Townhall.com offices...hehehe

Senator Jesse Helms
Senator Helms was a much beloved man in his beautiful state of North Carolina,being re-elected many times.

Burt is such a man and it is expected he would have the same character and beliefs about what is good and decent.

It is politically incorrect these days to buck the trends. These two men were and are trendsetters,pc be dam#ned.

To Formerly "Soms" and Vic
LBJ, may he rest in peace, was not a Communist.
Poor I'll-Do-Anything-to-Shock-and-Get-Attention Mapplethorpe did indeed, die of AIDS, may he rest in peace. I agree with Burt that Mapplethorpe could and should have made his own living and found people willing to spend their own money on his work.

Many years
ago, while doing an independent study on satirists, I noticed that Horace and Juvenal quite often wrote poems extolling some unknown individuals (unknown to me, that is). The professor that met with me weekly explained that these persons were the patrons of Horace and Juvenal. When I asked what a patron was, he explained that it's a rich person who foots the bill of writers and artists. So, in the grand tradition of, "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" the writers did not starve and the patrons were lionized. Now, I know that Bill and Melinda might be honored to foot the bill of some starving artist who wants to smear excrement on a computer chip, frame it and call it art, but to use my tax money for such stupidity is not a happy thing. But, what else can we expect from liberals who always want to put their hands in our pockets to pay for their brilliant ideas. And, if we say no, we are mean- spirited, racist, bigoted, narrow-minded, etc. It's a manifestation of their only reply to logic, ad-hominem attacks. And, that's about the Alpha and Omega of the whole deal.

I was
To the contrary, LBJ was to the left of Stalin. All Dems are now Communist, they purged the last few merely socialist pols from their ranks years ago.

Anne, I agree, 5 *****
loved the line about liberals 'putting a frame around anything and calling it art.

good life lesson, sending thank you's, even form letter, 'no thank you's,' better than ignoring the little people, especially when you have cadres of admin help.

i had been ignoring Perlutsky for some reason; no more, i will read him avidly. loved the use of the word "excoriate."

Vito,
As i was reading your comment, i was thinking how wrong-headed it was, but then i finally came to the anti-semitic part, where you showed your true colors. hopefully your comment will quickly disappear from this thread, and you will quickly disappear into the troglodyte moronosphere from which you were hatched.

I was Hindanow et al

Please explain to us what a Communist is so that we can be enlightened.

Writing about what you know
Vito;

Burt writes about his life experiences, about being a conservative writer in the middle of a sea of loony leftists. He does it with humor and class, not the anger and frustration his experience might have fostered.

If you don't like Burt's columns or for that matter the other columns on Town Hall why do you keep reading them? Why not just go back to reading MoveOn.org. There's s tee shirt out that applies to you and your ilk " I neutered the cat now it's a liberal"

The Idiot.
As they used to say on Saturday Night Live, "Vito, you @#%&!"

So there I was, a farm boy from Ohio, former USMC, trying to get a start in Hollyweird, and I, non-Jewish, non-gay, non-family affiliated, was given every chance by the Jewish Patriarchs of "The Business." They advised me, "Don't ever say anything bad about anybody or any product, don't steal money, and don't drink too much." Thank God for the Irvings, Freds and Lesters, I made, what was for me, a fortune, and lived happily ever after.

It doesn't sound like "Vito" is too happy -- as it should be.

Jesse Helms
infuriated the Left because he was ANTI COMMIE and anti tax and spend! THE VERY things THEY love to do.


ALL HANDS
are invited to the Anti Liberal Zone for a breakdown of O-Vomit's Sierra Club ad, the Sierra Club, who THEY support, and were the money comes.

The DNC. George Soros' puppets on a string. DANCE LIBVERMIN DANCE!

BTW, I frigging DARE any liberals out here to DEFEND the ad. I'll be waiting girls.

Had enough of Vito
It doesn't matter what Burt's subject is, Vito - like the drunkard uncle that always spoils the family get-togethers - shows up to post another anti-Jewish rant.

It would be great if all my fellow posters "flagged" his comments as offensive.

It would be even better if Townhall's moderators would send Vito to "Account is Suspended land" for a month or two.

Dear Queen Liberal
It is nice that this forum allows even a hillbilly with a word processor, such as yourself, the opportunity to criticize a talented conservative writer such as Burt Prelutsky. What a cheap thrill this must be for you.

I often get meaningless
attacks like Vito's and K Liberal's in freshman 101 composition papers. No analysis, no sources. When required to get sources, it is usually a liberal blog. Thankfully, even most of my liberal colleagues know pathetic writing when they see it, as do most th'ers.
Try again boys.

Queen Liberal
Even with the pile of nonsensical excrement you posted at 7:53, you still don't take first place for the vilest poster today.

That prize belongs to Vito - but you are in good company.

Profblog
I don't think you need worry that Queen Liberal will ever be one of your composition 101 paper-writers.

First, he'd have to graduate high school.

Second, he'd probably show up for class in D.C., as he is probably unaware that we have a Washington State.

Cheers!

Just because
Just because grandstanding Jesse "Dr. No" Helms got some things right, I do not think he was a great elected official! We best not forget the many things we disagree with him on because he was wrong. However, he possessed the power as Dr. No to get his way! Might does not make right!

vamtns41
"Just because grandstanding Jesse "Dr. No" Helms got some things right, I do not think he was a great elected official!"
-----

Apparently, a majority of your fellow NC citizens disagreed with you - over and over and over.

And the rest of the country benefited by their wisdom.

Mornin' Burt, another good
piece. NEA should get NO government funding. Artist's like Mapplethorpe etal would benefit from getting a job, paying some dues and learning about something worth reproducing on canvas that required talent rather than the misuse of poop or whatever.

Senator Helms was by all accounts that are worth listening to, a very nice person and a real conservative.


Primus54
I've been making a long collection of Vito's works for the administrators. I have added this to the novella.

Vito
"Please, tell me what you disagree with."

-Everyone disagrees with just about everything you say. It doesn't boil down to a difference of mere opinion. It's your distorted viewpoint of the world around you that makes you believe everything, even rain falling, is based upon a Jewish agenda.

"As for Townhall.com flagging my postings as offensive, maybe they don't because they believe in free speech and that there's nothing offensive in my comments."

-Freedom of expression is always celebrated, however, lunacy and personal attacks on the author are not. There's a countdown on you, Vito.

Negative Lefties
You can usually count on the same few lefties to come on every thread,every day for no other reason than to criticize conservatives.

That is their right, They are wrong,of course and they are aware of that,too. It is just so important for them to spew their venom for all to read. Doesn't have to be right...just do it.

If it makes them feel good about themselves,more power to them. They should not be offended though, when we point out how foolish they are.

Shells
Good morning.

Please ignore Vito. He suffers from his nightly habit of soaking his head in a bucket of urine.

Rowly
Who cares if the the liberal ranters are offeneded? Being offensive is the sole reason they come here. They do not discuss matters on the liberal blogs as they are too inconsequential to even be noticed there.

Prelustky and Jesse Helms
Thank you Sir, for proving that America is in full control of the liberals, while conservatives only now bark out of guilt, in as much as the National Debt now is about 10 trillion dollars and is growing by leaps and bounds and the Nation has been declared in full bankrupt condition up to 60 trillion dollars by an agent of the Federal Government, right?

These words by Thomas Jefferson say it all: "The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, in the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale". Yes, every child born now arrives with a bill attached to be paid at the tune of $30,000.00 dollars, based on the growing national debt alone!

As a matter of fact, America is now a Titanic heading for the iceberg and in reality it does not matter much whether Obama ends up sitting in the Oval Office or McCain. There might be a slight difference in time it will take to hit the iceberg, whether one or the other takes over.

I rest my case with the above comment! I would only have spend time voting had Ron Paul become the nominee of the Republican Party. Voting is evermore a waste of time or so it seems like, right?

Summers
Very true. They come to pick a fight. Sometimes I entertain them to get under their skin, which I suggest to do every once in a while, since it is, oh so fun. Usually I just ignore them. I actually don't read many of them anymore. I used to read them expecting to learn from them and see the opposing viewpoint, but they are so incredibly off-base its ridiculous. If anyone is in for a laugh...go ahead and read, but anyone who actually cares about the subject, there are few liberals who post anything worth reading. Christianlib is usually good to read, so read those, but all others just skip.

HD
Vote third party! You do not have to vote for one of those two when you vote. You will find over half a dozen on the ballot, so pick the most conservative and vote. Not voting will never force the politicians to change. If 10% of the voters voted conservative in Barr or something, they might get the message

Summers
Good morning!
I certainly don't care if they are offended,especially when they offend first. I do not apologize for speaking up for what I believe.

What I believe is,it is of the utmost importance to see that Obama is defeated. He offends me greatly.

CKHustler
Hope as you might to see some glint of intelligence in the posts of Vito et al., it is simply not to be found. While it would be good entertainment to engage in a debate, unfortunately, we get the dregs of liberal thought here, so no worthwhile exchange is possible. The good news is that they represent little and few. It does occur to me that those, such as Vito, represent some emotionally disturbed people.

I notice that, when you engage them, you get little in the way of facts in return. It does provide comic relief at times.

Thank you CKHustler
I have tried to find out what Barr's party stands for, but so far I have been not been successful. All I have gotten so far is asking for money support!

Good morning, Rowly
Over the weekend, I enjoyed listening to Tom Daschle attempt to explain Obama's positions. I assume that Daschle is hoping to establish some relevance for himself. He did look and sound pathetic. It reminded me of the joy I felt when he went down to defeat. What a waste of skin he is.

Vito's Comments
No one said Vito's comments were offensive. They just have no value. Vito apparently was limited skills.

Louiselouise
Vito's limited skills arise from Vito's limited intelligence.

Dear Burt,
...Have I told you lately that I love you? And not only for your common sense approach to life but for your decency and just plain guts. Why doesn't somebody like you ever run for President?
You should have seen some of the filth and damning remarks on the Detroit Free Press Forum article about Senator Helms's death. Some of us did try to inject some truth and humanity into the flood of vitriol, but I was truly shocked at the meanness of those posters. Jesse, from reports such as yours, was a very decent man.
...and so are you.

H.D.
The GOP abandoned its core values and spent with reckless abandon. George W. did nothing about it. Now we are in the grip of the liberals. Please notice that their spending agenda is more wildly reckless than that of those whom they replaced.

If you want reason for fear and dread, look at Obama's proposed spending plans on new and old programs and the fact that he has Reid and Pelosi anxiously waiting to grant his every want.

Louiselouise
It was not just that comment, it is the fact that every single column of Burts, vito turns to anti-semitism. Would you not find that offensive if you found your religious beliefs being attacked each and every time, regardless of the topic at hand? I am glad shells is keeping track of this. There must be pages of insults by now.

Waldo the Wise: Here's what vito knows!




























.

Olivia1
The comments against Helms are gratuitous lies. Why don't they stick to praising the former Klansman Robert Byrd? Did I say former? I have no proof of the break in affiliation.

Sending a meesage?

We have possibly the most incompetent group of politicians in the history of America right now with a 10% or whatever approval rating.

These politicians couldn't find their 'behind' with both hands, a map and a GPS device.

The solution is to send them a message? and you think they will understand it? and act on it?

Whomever 'they' are - what 'message' are they able to comprehend?

Anne, stop it!
You are giving Vito far too much credit for what he knows!

Summers: LOL Okay. :-)

I was afraid that I was allowing him a little more space than I should have. :-)



Summers
I also saw Daschele spinning his web for Obama. Pathetic. How I longed to wipe that sick grin from his face. He has gotten worse since his defeat. I really like John Thume.

Lindsey Graham did a good job defending Mccain against Daschele's twisting,parsing and lying . I almost forgave him for the 'Gang Of Fourteen'.

Hollywood Psychopaths? or Celebrities?

A psychopath can involve and get other people into trouble quickly and they seem to have no regret for their actions.

A psychopath will use people for excitement, entertainment, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value

Psychopaths have these characteristics:
---------------------------------------
superficial charm

self-centered & self-important

deceptive behavior & lying

conning & manipulative

little remorse or guilt

shallow emotional response

callous with a lack of empathy

living off others or predatory attitude

blaming others for their actions

A psychopath is usually a subtle manipulator. They do this by playing to the emotions of others. They typically have high verbal intelligence, but they lack what is commonly referred to as "emotional intelligence".

Vito & "Free Speech"
Vito's comments on free speech - like many of the distortions usually propagated by the left - grow tiresome in their ignorance.

First of all, as a for-profit website designed to appeal to a certain niche, Townhall is under no constitutional obligation to provide a forum for "Free Speech".

Second, while our constitution specifically states that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech - there is no provision which protects the speech maker from the consequences of their words - should others be offended.

Third. Personally, I'd be offended by Vito's anti-Semitic remarks even if he had directed them to my least favorite leftist - and would have flagged them as offensive, as well.

Obviously, as Vito has stated in his second post, he doesn't think he wrote anything offensive, which is redundant - since he wouldn't have written the comments if he believed otherwise in the first place.

There IS a reason Townhall has a "Flag as Offensive" button, Vito.

It exists for the occasion when someone is too dense to not see what is obvious to everyone else.

Anne
The space is between his ears. Empty space.

Summers: Excellent point!

"Why don't they stick to praising the former Klansman Robert Byrd?"

Typical of the demo-cretin mentality... refuse to clean up their own house, but always pointing their fingers at others.

I can only surmise that it's easier to point fingers since their own house is so corrupt and filthy.


Off The Subject,But Important
As a longtime Atlanta Braves fan,I mourn the passing of Skip Carey. He was my favorite Braves announcer, (along with Ernie Johnson and Pete van Weirien,in the earlier years).

He is hopefully today, singing with his dad,Harry,Sr."Take me out to the ballgame".

Actually he knows lest than zero!

VITO, HOWEVER, WOULD FIT IN PERFECTLY ON THE "LOST" T.V. SHOW.

Then there was that depraved, demented, disease infested Mapplethorpe. The liberal, pagan, cultural elite thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Figures. Bet the radical left from the Obama camp adored (still do probably) Mapplethorpe, also.

Rowly-Anne-Primus-CKHustler-Summers-Othe
Good Morning All!

IMHO, art wend downhill as Photography became more prevalent and affordable. But Liberal Perverts follow the Liberal Mantra regarding art. There is no absolute right or wrong, hence they believe there is no good art or bad art. There is no perversion or morality. It is all relative, Etc, YOU KNOW THE DRILL! Yet, if I posted GARBAGE about African-Americans like VITO THE MORONIC COWARDS posts about Burt, EVERY Liberal on here would throw a Sissy Hissy Fit! Queen Liberal would try to hit me with his purse.


Alright
Fall in!

Alright, ya liberal maggots, here's an idea for a piece of art ya might like.

How about a bust of Teddy K in a bucket of dogcrap?

I think it would be a fine piece that illustrates reality in a nice artistic manner.

And we should have the Dumbocratic party pay for it out of their pockets.

'Nuff said!

Fall out!

Georgetwin
And, a good day to you, sir.

SUGGESTION FOR THE DAY: Get rid of PBN and PBS.

See - there's always common ground!
I agree with ya'll that Vito is a despicable anti-semitic bigot...

Although Helms was a bigot too...

I have no kind words for HIM either considering his blatant and callous disregard for the AIDS epidemic.

The coward didn't even have the courage or decency to meet with Ryan White's mother weeks after his death when she went to congress to speak on the issue.


Sergeant Slaughter
You have the soul of an artist; and, it is clear that you are a dog lover. I know you would have suggested a statue but took into consideration the strain on too many dogs' bowels.

GT
Hello! Very true about art. Now anything and everything is art. I went to the art museum at UofMinn here and some of it was good art, but then you get to the modern art and nearly all of it was horrible, at least I thought so.

Yes, let's get rid of PBS, NPR & the NEA
!!!

Let's do away with all art altogether now!

That's just what America needs - to become a little less cultured!

Let's make Nascar our official pastime, Pabst Blue Ribbon our offical drink, and Britney Spears our standard bearer for the AMERICAN version of art and culture.

Culture and art are sooooooo European and gay anway.

We need to go back to the good ole days when we burned pieces of filth like Catcher in the Rye and Huckleberry Finn!

Sophie
The HIV/AIDS epidemic has not always been understood by the medical community, much less others, as it has in the last two years. Even now we are learning, courtesy of the CDC last week, the numbers of people infected by the HIV virus in this country. The problem with the bearers of the virus is that, unless they have contracted it by dirty blood transfusions or by birth from an infected mother, they do little to evoke sympathy. Sympathy is the core that helps the populace allay fear and join the fight against the virus.

When using a dirty needle for a drug fix is more important than life, death is the choice. When unprotected homosexual sex is more important than life, death is the choice. Even today, most people are not anxious to help those who do nothing to help themselves.

Further, the widely televised disruptions of mass by gays dressed as priests and nuns and the gay Naked Jesus Parade does nothing to make me want to help them. The crimes committed by drug users so they can get a fix does nothing to make me want to help them.

Summers: Sergeant Slaughter's posts are

among the consistently funny on TH...


To burst your bubble, Sophie,
I don't like NASCAR or Britney Spears.

If an artist does not have the talent to make it, that's the way it goes. Taxpayer dollars should not be spent to promote any artist.

Boring, Sophie...
"Yes, let's get rid of PBS, NPR & the NEA
!!!
Let's do away with all art altogether now!

That's just what America needs - to become a little less cultured!
-----

Typical liberal "black vs. white" response from one of many Townhall's liberal groupies.

I don't care if there is a PBS or NPR or NEA - as long as my tax dollars aren't spent to support them.

That IS, after all, the conservative argument.

If these entities are "all that", then they should be able to exist in a competitive environment and through private donations.

"Cultured" is a liberal code word for: "I want the Europeans to love us."

I want Americans to love America.

Patronage is a big fat waste!
All you get from sponsorship of the arts is losers like Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo...

Because those sponsors wouldn't let the free market rule, we will never have the works of the Britney Spears equivalents of the renaissance for all posterity...

Oh such a loss!

Retired Geek
.
On sending a message.

I am very much afraid that "we" are a minority when it comes to voting.

How can we possibly send a message by voting them out when there is such apathy by the new majority.

The only kind of message they might likely understand would be terrible to contemplate but very effective.

Good guys finish last. That's where we are today, down and out and making gurgling noises.

Do you really see a likely improvement in an ever down spiraling politics.??.

Not with the same clowns being reelected.

The Democrat party has used deceased persons voting for years as well as wet-back voters trucked to the back door. But I have seen little evidence that the deceased are admitted to congress although many of them are very brain dead. Morality has taken a back seat even to patriotism which is at the far back of most politicians limited minds.

Tell me I am wrong.
.

Summers
Your 11:42 is excellent.

I couldn't have said it as well.

Cheers!

Your prejudice is showing Summers dear
If you think all aids victims are either irresponsible homosexuals or drug users you need to get out of the house more.

There have been many good and decent people lost to this disease. Far better people than Helms who was too much of a coward to meet with Ryan White's mother. Was Ryan White to blame for his disease?

Or the many other babies born infected?

The majority of those suffering in Africa are neither homosexual or drug users.

And as for those cases that do result from behavior...

Obesity and type II diabetes also result from lifestyle choices.

Should we deny them treatment and let them die as well?


CKH-Summers-Primus-Anne-RGeek-Others
If an artist’s work is GOOD enough, they can support themselves and there is NO NEED for Government Assistance. Then you have the Liberal Theory on Money: Money BAD! Corporations BAD! Big Oil BAD! Big Tobacco BAD! WHERE THE H3LL IS MY GOVERNMENT CHECK!

Sergeant Slaughter
What do you have against dog crap?

Not to be an elitist.....BUT...
Primus and Summers...

Go to the average american mall and tell me you trust those people setting the standards of american culture through the free market system...

And I DO indeed love Europe! Especially those frenchies!

And America too! Being born in america, I'm a little more partial to that connection.

Thank god though for the influence, culture, and history of our european friends!

Viva la France!

All Hail Brittania!

Another poor example by Sophie
"All you get from sponsorship of the arts is losers like Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo..."
-----

Robert Mapplethorpe is no Da Vinci or Michelangelo.

And "sponsors" should be people - not governments.

(I'm still pouring over my copy of the Constitution that directs the federal government to "sponsor" the arts (or NPR/PBS). No luck, so far.)

Not much off the subject!!

H. D. Location:
Reply # 32
Date: Aug 4, 2008 - 9:25 AM EST
Prelustky and Jesse Helms

Yes, every child born now arrives with a bill attached to be paid at the tune of $30,000.00 dollars, based on the growing national debt alone!
=========

We are often told it is immoral that our children and grandchildren will be forced to pay the debt this government leaves. True perhaps, but no one ever mentions that our offspring and descendants will be living under a government fought and paid for by this and previous generations; will be living in homes built by their ancestors; will be driving vehicles designed and manufactured by this generation; will be attending schools and studying subjects developed long before they were born; will be using computers invented by their forebears; and on and on. It seems they will owe us, not the other way around.

I am sick and tired of hearing this piece of nonsense. Now what if your parents died and left you a bill of $100,000 that you just had to pay? That would be bad, bad that is until you found they left you a building, free and clear of debt, that is worth $1,000,000.

This future generation will inherit hundreds of trillions of dollars of buildings, houses, roads, factories, computers, medicines, ships, airplanes, inventions, and every thing else that exists in this country.

So let's quit being concerned about that so-called future generation. Yes it would have been nice for you to inherit the million without having to pay the hundred thousand, but come one, think a little.


SSGT Sodomy
If you love playing pretend toy soldier so much, why don't you actually join the military?

There's actually even a war going on!

Considering how far they've lowered the bar on standards to get accepted, what with the military being stretched so far, they might even take YOU!

Inj my last post I referenced ........
.
...the following word, wet-back without the hyphen.

What is the substitute word we are "granted" so as to comply with some nuance of PC-ability.??.

Just who are the judges of what is a hip word and what is declassified as acceptable.??.

Is townhall so PC that we cannot use words that have been in use for decades.??. Wet-backs include people of all races and national origins. It simply means they are illegals. Is the word "illegal" soon to be a non PC word.??. Will it be illegal to say, illegal.??.

I am confused by the insistence to not use a word that is not a racial slur. Maybe we should stop saying "old white men" or how about "my old lady" or "juveniles" or "homo erectus".

Is there such a thing as a group that cannot be offended by some reference to their condition.??.
.

Reading comprehension lacking Sophie
Summers specifically wrote:

"The problem with the bearers of the virus is that, unless they have contracted it by dirty blood transfusions or by birth from an infected mother, they do little to evoke sympathy."
-----

Kinda blows your: "If you think all aids victims are either irresponsible homosexuals or drug users..." argument out of the water, doesn't it Sophie dear?

Sheesh... are you the "faux" Sophie?

All too easy....


Primus,
when Americans talk smack about Europe, it tends to sound very insecure...

Just thought you should know.

I may have to agree that a cow whip up the butt, doesn't fit my definition of art...

But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

And, FYI,

The governments of all successful nations have been patrons of art and culture.

Sophie
How I would love to be like the French:

"50 Youth Attack French Police In Weekend Riots"
http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2008/06/50-youth-attack-fr ench-police-in.html

"French Riots Enter a Second Night"
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1688014,00.ht ml

"Radical Islam blamed for French rioting "
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=33243

"What was the role of France in World War 2?"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_role_of_France_in_Wo rld_War_2

Need I continue? The French are the epitome of useless.

wait a minute
most great artists, for whatever reason, don't make much money when they are alive.

for most of modern human history, governments have recognized the need to support artists.

from da vinci to michelangelo, many great artists have been funded by government.

Sophie
You are not being an elitist as much you are longing for a dictatorship that dictates your wants, perceived needs, and opinions. You fault conservatives for being hyper-critical and narrow-minded. It seems you have criticized that which you love dearest. As to France, once it becomes a Muslim country, you can kiss the Louvre good-bye.

I regret that you did not mention a fondness for the art of Mexico. After the massive influx of illegals that will continue unabated as long as we grant rights that should belong to citizens to everyone who comes here illegally, your champagne tastes may be tempered by, at best, a Dos Equus society. In other words, you may need to grow less fond of Mona Lisa and more fond of paintings on velvet. As I recall, Sophie, you have argued in favor of not closing the southern border.

Sophie writes:
"Go to the average american (sic) mall and tell me you trust those people setting the standards of american (sic) culture through the free market system..."
-----

Yes - you ARE being an "elitist".

Once again, in true leftist, elitist fashion, you are "judging" others and have determined you "know better" what American culture should represent.

I've got absolutely nothing against a "sponsor" helping an artist develop and market their talent - even if I cannot "see" the talent they see. That's up to them to judge.

Just stop asking me to pay for it.

(Sophie - this is one of those times when you are merely arguing a point because you cannot admit when you are misguided - another characteristic of an elitist leftist.)

ModMark
I completely agree with that! Sports teams have millions and billions to support themselves! Though, if the people vote to build a stadium...that isn't exactly the same thing and it does happen that way on many occasions.

Aids victims are,.....
.
....more often than not, victims of their husbands in the case of women, and the men victims of a prostitute or other woman who slept around.

The idea that homosexuality is "the cause" of AIDS is rather short sighted. I have little sympathy for gays who come down with HIV, but your attack on Sophie is wrong although she/it often deserves such an attack.

Summers was fairly close on her statement, but showed poor little Sophie no wiggle room.

Sophie, just for grins, make more positive statements and less negative ones. You attract attacks like a lightening rod. Is that your druthers.??.
.

onceamarine
Sir, TH is so PC that you cannot mention Ike Eisenhower's Operation Wet B@ck in which he deported illegals so that American citizens had jobs at decent wages for this country.

Sophie opines:
"... when Americans talk smack about Europe, it tends to sound very insecure..."
-----

Wow.

"Insecure" about what?

Perhaps it has escaped your notice, but this great nation was formed for the specific purpose of getting "Europe" out of our business.

It strikes me that the opposite of your argument is true.

Liberals are insecure unless "Europe" loves us.

(Sophie - it is only 9:25 am where you live. Perhaps you need another cup of coffee or two before posting further. You aren't very sharp so far.)

Summers
.
What part of Texas ya'll from.??. Not Austin I'll bet. Your posts are very appreciated in most of our circles. Say hello to Georgetown next time you're passing through.

You know the one, where before progress caught up due to its' proximity to Austin, had, as they say, more churches than people.
.

artist
I'm an artist but not quite to the point of selling art yet, close. I sure wouldn't ask to be insulted by having the government sponsor me because people won't buy my crap.

Primus
I don't believe the constitution specifically addresses national, publicaly provided, education either...

Yet those of us with common sense recognize that it is essential for a successful and thriving democracy...

Such as my good old buddy Tommy:

The object [of my education bill was] to bring into action that mass of talents which lies buried in poverty in every country for want of the means of development, and thus give activity to a mass of mind which in proportion to our population shall be the double or treble of what it is in most countries." --Thomas Jefferson to M. Correa de Serra, 1817. ME 15:156

"The general objects [of a bill to diffuse knowledge more generally through the mass of the people] are to provide an education adapted to the years, to the capacity, and the condition of every one, and directed to their freedom and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIV, 1782. ME 2:204

"A bill for the more general diffusion of learning... proposed to divide every county into wards of five or six miles square;... to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools, who might receive at the public expense a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects, to be completed at an University where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and completely prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:399


onceamarine
While never having served, it has always been my understanding that "once a marine, always a marine!"

Thank you for your service to this great nation.

Regards.

onceamarine
"....more often than not, victims of their husbands in the case of women, and the men victims of a prostitute or other woman who slept around."


Im not so sure you are being entirely truthful there.
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fsh ivaid.htm


"Sixty-four percent of the HIV/AIDS cases in young men ages 13-24 through 2005 were transmitted through male-to-male contact.[5] "

more from Tom on education....
"This [bill] on education would [raise] the mass of the people to the high ground of moral respectability necessary to their own safety and to orderly government, and would [complete] the great object of qualifying them to secure the veritable aristoi for the trusts of government, to the exclusion of the pseudalists... I have great hope that some patriotic spirit will... call it up and make it the keystone of the arch of our government." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:400






Summers
.
I don't live in Florida. A brother does, so I put that into townhall as an address since he picks up my US mail. I am from Texas but live overseas. Another brother lives outside Austin on a hill some where. I can never remember what they call that community, but he has a great view of part of lake Travis and environs.
.


Sophie
Education is not the job of the federal government. State government? Sure, but the federal government lives by the constitution and has no other powers.

By the federal government running our education, welfare, medicaid etc, they have to do a general broad brush stroke to cover everything and they end up wasting billions. Let the state governments micromanage and perhaps they would be more efficient.

Sophie
There is a reason the 10th amendment was put into the Bill of Rights. Just thought you should know

I almost didn't
comment I was having so much fun reading the posts.

All of the art comments brought back some fond memories. Back in the beginning of last October my husband and I took my mother on a trip to DC. We went to two of the art galleries in the Smithsonian. What I remember most is my mother and I laughing so hard at the modern art! We couldn't find a bathroom quick enough. She taught me that true art, no matter what the form, should inspire one to the possibilities of life, not offend. Her favorite art was those that used humor to do it.

Sadly my mother died in May. She was also opposed to tax dollars going to the NEA despite the fact that she was an artist. In her view true talent needed no subsidies.

Hustler and Primus
There would BE no america without european culture and history.

In case you forgot, americans are not indigenous to this land. Where do you think we came from?

Our form of government was also based on the ideals of the (european) enlightenment.

Sophie
re: Your 12:34 PM.
-----

Thank you for the history lesson.

A few points:

1. You are deflecting the issue (typical) - and confusing "NEA" (National Endowment of the Arts) with "NEA" (National Education Association).
2. I have no problem with having national educational goals - but it is up to the state and local governments to determine curriculum and fund education.
3. Getting a sound education has NOTHING to do with federal tax payer funding of "artists" who think "a cow whip up the butt" (your words) is "art".

Nice try, though.

christianlib
You state that government supported artists from 'daVinci to michaelangelo' (sic). DUH. During that brief span in art history, Italy consisted of many separate states. Give an example of post 1900 governments supporting artists.

reply to AlphaOmega
Conservative hagiography is sickening. Helms may have been polite--I mean, his office did return Prelutsky's call, after all--but that doesn't change a thing about Helms' political principles--evil to the core.

sophie
So when Americans talk smack about Europe it tends to make us sound insecure?

So what does it make Europeans sound like when they talk smack about America?

Actually Summers
Since my husband is from peru, I prefer Crystal and Cuscena to Dos Xs...and I DO have some inca influenced art in my house (I am a very well rounded person with ecclectic tastes)...The incas had an amazing culture!

I think the border should be secured to stop the uncontrolled flux. Eight years of republican control and you ain't got a thing accomplished except an expensive virtual fence that don't work worth crap.

Anyone who thinks those already here are going anywhere is a deluded fool...

Well, maybe if McCain gets nominated, he'll deport them all...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Summers
Dang it!

You beat me to the punch asking Sophie that question!

onceamarine
At the moment, sir, I am in downtown Houston preparing for a rain shower!

Thank you for the high compliment.

Has anyone noticed that psycho-sophie

is the counter-part to "Robert?"

Like "Robert" all psycho-sophie does is post nonsensical, inane, irrelevant comments and attempts to hi-jack whatever thread she logs onto...




Sophie
European culture of....200+ years ago? Not the culture they have today. We are a mixture of many cultures. Had we emanated Europe directly...we would not be the country we are today. We took the good and left the bad, for the most part.

Primus-CKH-RGeek-GunnyG-Others
How The H3ll did we get to AIDS & Education from Pervert Art? The Troll Idiots must have shown up. France’s answer to ANY problem is to grab their ankles. No wonder Girlyman Obama LOVES them!

Da Vinci NOT subsidized
The major artists like Da Vinci were not subsidized by the Government. They were hired by wealthy patrons to paint or create other types of art and paid for their work. Most of the time these wealthy patrons were high church officials. One might say at this time that these patrons were members of the government but they didn’t “give” money to the artist and then expect nothing in return. If the NEA were to do similar today it would hire these worthless hacks to creat art that would placed on display in public buildings.

Of course if they did that, the public would get wise as to how bad their money is being wasted and demand that the NEA be disbanded.

Sophie, Darling
You are getting ridiculous when you write:
"There would BE no america (sic) without european (sic)culture and history."
-----

How ridiculous?

If I was predisposed to Biblical references, I could say:

There would be no "anybody" from "anywhere" if not for Adam & Eve.

If you love Europe culture and their governmental priorities so well... (you know the rest).

Stop deflecting, Sophie. Make your arguments and back them up with the "common sense" you claim to have.

Gestell
Good overbroad, vague generalization, as to be expected. Care to make sense of it with specifics?

Lolo
BTW, Rush has audio of Pelosi and Obama saying we should END THE USE OF OIL in America. Obama can let the wind catch those Parasail Ears and get to his next stop. I don’t see Plastic Surgery Pelosi hitchhiking anytime soon, do you?

GT
Well...they are close, in that it has to do with funding from the government. It is funny though how liberals like to say Republicans are stomping on the constitution when they go on sprees like Sophie is lol.

CKHustler
.
I stand corrected, partially. Possibly because I get some of my news from foreign sources, I may have scuewed my remarks somewhat. Can't spell scuewed and the online dictionary isn't helping.

I still standby the part about women who typically are victims of their husbands. Now, if you read carefully, you will find that

"Sixty-four percent of the HIV/AIDS cases in young men ages 13-24 through 2005 were transmitted through male-to-male contact.[5]" makes no mention of what percentage of the totals are represented by the 13 to 24 young males. It only says that of those youth, they believe that this is accurate, 64% of those people, who are undoubtedly a minority of the total, are those who had relations of such a nature with other males.

Now I am tired of the entire subject, especially since I do not personally know anyone with AIDS. I only have the distinct impression that numbers are games people of different agendas play with to solidify their own position, who ever they are. And yes, I contend that significant numbers of victims got it through no obvious fault of their own.

By the way, and just for grins, Aids is curable although you will never hear that from the AMA since the doctors and pharmacological factories are making way too much money selling over priced medicines. The same is true for diabetes and cancer. They are strictly curable but the powers that be, making mega billions, don't want the word to get out.
.

.

Arts Council of Great Britain
formed in 1940.

Georgetwin: Exactly!!! Hijacked thread!

Anyone remember Jesse Helms???

Well - Sophie's 12:48 PM...
... has clearly demonstrated she is unable to stay on topic when counter-arguments have backed her into a corner.

Typical, typical, typical...

I'm bored with her now.

Summers
.
Thanks for your kind retort.

Yes, I once lived for many years off Hillcroft and Beechnut Blvds. Surely someone isn't too old and retired to remember me at IBM although now that I think about it they probably are all retired.

Rain.??. In Houston. Naw..
.

France spending 100 million Euros on art
http://www.sgallery.net/artnews/2006/12/19/french-governmen t-s-e100m-plan-to-boost-failing-art-scene.html

Not that I necessarily agree with that, but one more sign of America losing the edge....

Technology, arts, etc....

Lolo
Occassionally europeans sound whiny or jealous or superior when they criticize america...

It depends what the subject is.

They were damn sure right about criticizing the invasion of Iraq now weren't they?

onceamarine
Curable? Well, Ill have to find that ;)

Aids I could believe. Im actually wondering why we are having such a hard time. Cancer on the other hand is much...different. Ive heard of many ways that could kill the cancer without harming you, but none of those Ive heard to be done. Diabetes could be done I think too. Some hormones or gene fixing could probably do the task, but that is tough.

Ill have to check those out.

And yes, my source is more for young people. I do not think that 64% of all cases are male to male, but there is a significant enough amount that they do spread much of the disease.

Jesse Helms was a bigoted
nasty coward.

If there's any justice, he'll spend eternity shining MLK's shoes with his tongue.

Is that better Ann?

Check the CDC website
There you will find the current stats on AIDS/HIV.

They came out in the news last week.

I think a few people are going to be surprised.

Does anyone remember Burt Prelutsky.....
.
..the guy does a great job of representing the right. Right is a word that aptly describes most of its' positions.

So Burt, I take this opportunity to thank you for your service to mankind and to this nation.

Thank you.
.

sophie
Are you attempting to deflect yet again because you are getting your clock cleaned?

Georgetwin
Good afternoon to you !


OOps!!!!
On one of my posts....i mispelled Thune.....I do know better.

In regards
to the column. What good does it do to vilify Senator Jesse Helms? Did he fool around with someone while he was married only to drown her in a lake? Did he take minors out of the country to have sex? Did he toe tap in a restroom then back pedal? Did he line his own pocket book with your tax dollars and at your expense?

Far too many think that because one disagree?s with another they are therefore evil incarnate.

And we wonder why this country is such a mess?

Lolo
I looked around til I found the stats link...

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/us.htm

Thanks for the link

Anderson 659
"Jeese Helms was the last of the senators who understood the need to respond to his constituents. No wonder he was elected so many times. "

Yes, his constituents mainly consisting of redneck racist bigots who were out to fight integration til their dying breath.

Except one, the constituent he seduced and impregnated, then hid from view.

Lolo1
Remember the scene from "The Holy Grail" where the Black Knight - both arms and both legs having been cut off in a sword fight - was yelling at his opponent "It's just a flesh wound" and "Let's call it a draw!"?

That reminds me of Sophie when her arguments have been systematically and thoroughly debunked.

"I have NOT lost!!!!"

Robert Novak
....'has announced his immediate retirement. Brain tumor is dire'. I am sorry for him and will miss him and his articles.

Georgetwin
Pelosi and Obama can claim all they want that the country should get off of oil but the technology is not there yet. They also are being short sighted (nothing new there) in that they do not realize what other goods and services will go up if we do.

Have you seen the cars and drivers that chauffeur them around? When they start walking to work or riding a bike to do everything then they can talk. This "Let'em eat cake" mentality never ceases to amaze me.

Gestell, once more,
what are the specifics on which you rely to say that Helms was 'evil to the core'? Your overbroad and vague shot at it are not sufficient.

divinci and michelangelo supported by
kings and popes.

the monarchy and the religious leaders were the govenment at that time.


From September 1513 to 1516, Leonardo spent much of his time living in the Belvedere in the Vatican in Rome, where Raphael and Michelangelo were both active at the time.[4] In October 1515, François I of France recaptured Milan.[21] On 19th December, Leonardo was present at the meeting of Francois I and Pope Leo X, which took place in Bologna.[7][22][23] It was for Francois that Leonardo was commissioned to make a mechanical lion which could walk forward, then open its chest to reveal a cluster of lilies.[9][n]In 1516, he entered François' service, being given the use of the manor house Clos Lucé[o] near the king's residence at the royal Chateau Amboise

Primus54
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I have that on a t-shirt. Now I am going to go and change clothes and wear it in honor of sophie.

Perhaps we can dub Vito as the Killer Rabbit! Jimmy Carter will be quaking in his boots!

Lolo
Has Al Bore traded in his SUV's, Limo, Private Plane?

The Tree Huggers have started showing up here in smart cars. HAVE YOU SEEN THESE?!?!?! They are wheeled coffins. ANY IMPACT on one of these and the occupants ARE DEAD!


Here's some depressing news....
The U.S. ranks sixth worldwide in Standards of living....

Life expectency 42nd...

Here's some other disturbing statistic...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7511426.stm


In and the U.S., the highest ranking area for Human Development is Manhattan! Those stinking New Yooork liberal elitists!

Red Staters are pretty low on the evolutionary scale. Surprise surprise.


For the insensitive and thoughtless
among us, did you forget that today is Obama's birthday, as I did? Shucks! And, I'll just bet you missed his birthday speech in Lansing, Michigan, too, didn't you? I didn't.

Just so you won't be confused, he has not changed his mind on off-shore drilling but will agree to it in an effort to reach a compromise on our energy problems. He is still promoting, and tilting with, windmills.

Oh, Georgetwin,
don't you see the bigger picture? Dead means no need for medical care which means less cost to socialized medicine which means more people can be treated which means that the illegals covered in Obama's plan will be less of a burden which means we should all be happy and shut up. That is the bigger picture, isn't it?

bookfiend
Apparently you should change your handle since you cannot read nor comprehend.

It was Strom Thurmond that fathered the child.

Before you vilify someone perhaps you should get your facts straight dipwad.

Better yet...try cleaning up your own back yard first.

PUTZ!

Sophie
"The U.S. ranks sixth worldwide in Standards of living....

Life expectency 42nd...

Here's some other disturbing statistic...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7511426.stm"

Your serious? No! Really? I can't believe you are trying to turn to stats like that. I have already tore Hal to pieces on this subject. You should research the countries that have a higher GDP than us...the total population of them is about 30 million. haha

Im not going to debate that subject on here, but you should try to analyze your stats before posting or you just look an idiot.

Oh, Sophie,
look at the bright side. When you die you probably won't have an e-mail address that is compatable with the rest of ours.

I see
sophie is still attempting to change the subject to no avail.

Sophie darlin'! You have
cut me to the quick. :-( Here I thought I was being clever telling the folks on the threads about your upcoming nuptials with the Doggg. I didn't mean to let the cat out of the bag. Hope he doesn't jilt you.

christian lib
You are comparing apples to kumquats.

Oh, Lo,
how picky of you! Picky, picky, picky! How can you expect liberals to like conservatives when you rub their nose in the truth.

The founding fathers did indeed
support publically fostering the arts.....



President John Quincy Adams promoted just such a scenario in 1825 when he proposed Congress enact laws "promoting the improvement of agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, the cultivation and encouragement of the mechanic and of the elegant arts, the advancement of literature, and the progress of sciences" while executing the duties prescribed in the Constitution. He charged, "to refrain from exercising [its constitutional duty] for the benefit of the people themselves would be to hide in the earth the talent committed to [the national government's] charge--would be treachery to the most sacred trusts" (Israel, 1966, p. 248). Congress did not consciously heed Adams's words and rarely considered the advancement of the arts in the fulfillment of its perceived constitutional duties. Early policies on the arts therefore evolved serendipitously in legislation addressing other matters, thus contributing to the perception that the United States did not have arts policies before 1965.



Here you go:


http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-36712/Searching-for -a-national-policy.html

Time to educate yourselves!


Thomas Jefferson clearly
anticipated using tax dollars to foster arts....

The founding fathers, however, envisioned the nation's Congress enacting legislation "for the good of the people" that would include providing for the arts. President George Washington in his eighth annual report to Congress (1796) proposed creation of a national university asserting, "the flourishing of the arts and sciences contributes to national prosperity and reputation" (Israel, p. 35). In his second inaugural address (1805), President Thomas Jefferson spoke of his anticipation at settlement of the public debt so surplus revenues could "be applied to rivers, canals, roads, arts, manufactures, education, and other great objects within each state" (Department of Humanities Computing, 2002).



Just because you say you beat me doesn't make it so, you know?



Lolo-Summers-Primus-CKH
What about those that are GREIVOUSLY injured drives these Roller Skates on Steroids? Then the Liberal Morons will turn on Big Automobile again and screech AGAIN for FREE Healthcare! The years of Drug Abuse has SERIOUSLY degraded the Mental Capacity of these Drug Addled, Tree Hugging, Leftover Hippies!


Georgetwin and Lolo1! A friend
of mine received this link from ole "walkin' eagle" and forwarded it to me.
Please let me know what you think.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/29/mccain-fails-mccai ns-commander-in-chief-test/

Sophie
So because it happened in 1825 makes it constitutional? This is all not to mention that Congress didn't heed his words consciously. So basically the will of one man is where you are basing your argument? JQA is not quite a founding father either. I half consider him since he is an Adams, but he did not influence the constitution in any way.

One note birdy
Still stuck on the same note?

Blackbird
Fat Boy sent that to me also. SO WHAT! He has velcro on his ankles for The Far Left at this point.

Lo, Blackbird
Sophie is trying to take Akagi's place in teaching off-topic history to the rest of us.

She is creating large gaps in the thread that I am scrolling past.

sophie
dear...calm down and take your prozac.

They wanted funding for the arts in the name of education, as well as science.

Not to fund some idiot putting a cross in urine and calling it art.

Another problem you seem to have is worshiping instead of studying the Founding Fathers. They were men with flaws that had some very different ideas and opposing view points. They all came from very different political persuasions. If you need an example look at the debate over slavery. Look at the debate over getting involved in the French Revolution.

I suggest you do some homework and study just how they put tax dollars to use in the arena of 'Arts'. A good place to start is the Library of Congress which is a work of art unto itself.

Happy Birthday to our (future) Commander
in Chief!

Not to change the subject but....

How pathetic is McCain!

It's actually rather sad to see a once honorable man acting in such a petty and sad manner....


Sophie
Again..you cannot analyze. Jeez, must we have to prove wrong your every assertion?

"President George Washington in his eighth annual report to Congress (1796) proposed creation of a national university asserting, "the flourishing of the arts and sciences contributes to national prosperity and reputation"

Let me take a couple words out for you:
"national university"

"In his second inaugural address (1805), President Thomas Jefferson spoke of his anticipation at settlement of the public debt so surplus revenues could "be applied to rivers, canals, roads, arts, manufactures, education, and other great objects within each state"

ahem..."public debt so surplus revenues"

Does that mean we should give it all up since we are in debt? Come on...you've lost Sophie.

I notice that Jefferson doesn't say that the federal government should do it, but that it could go towards that. Maybe he meant state governments? Or possibly listing all possibilities? Maybe he meant if the people voted for any of these their state governments could cover them? You have to analyze instead of posting random ramblings.

Vito
you post on 'jewwatch'? That's another great reason why I would never read that trash.

I love Jews; my favorite is Jesus.

A question...
since Obama wants to gut the military what is he going to be commander of?

Well it actually wasn't Mapplethorpe
who put jesus in the jug of pissjuice, but I will concede that public funding for either that piece or the horsewhip up the butt would probably be stretching the founding fathers idea of 'art'...

My point is that they recogized the importance of fostering science art and culture in general in order to make this nation thrive and compete...

And btw,

If you are so concerned about tax dollars being misused, why no outcry over Bush giving away tax payer money to douchebagg Pat Robertson with his faith based initiatives????

And no, I am not happy that Obama thinks he can continue this scam.

Lolo-Summers-BBird-Others
Rush had a caller that is reporting that Obama has Hippies passing out tire gauges at an engagement in Detroit. The caller was working across the street and The Hippies came over and tried to give them tire gauges and Obama Gear and were told where to go. The MSM reporting THOUSANDS there, folks on site are estimating 1,000 AT BEST!

Let’s See, Michigan in recession BECAUSE of Communist Economic Policies. The Communist Liberals keep trying to DIG OUT OF A HAOLE! WHAT MORONS!

Summers
Of course he posts on Jew Watch!

Trashy disgusting people have tendency to hang around each other. He epitomizes that.

Georgetwin! Velcro
on his ankles? That's a great one. He must be trying to counter the facts about Obama that are about to be revealed by Corsie's new book. Another "swift boat". I can hardly wait to see what that certain EX LTC USAF (Ret.) has to say when the sh** hits the fan.

Latter/later
Off to fight for freedom! Let freedom ring or reign!


haha...that was a horrible robert impression.

Later ladies and gentlemen.

Georgetwin
Is it true that Obama's next suggestion will be that we all drive in reverse as we aren't as apt to speed while in reverse? Just think of the gasoline conserved by not speeding.

sophie
I have no problem with government encouraging art and science as well as faith based initiatives.

But as you know there is a correct way of doing things and an incorrect way of doing things.

Therein lies the rub!

Since the government isn't very good with accountability, and we are at war, and do have a deficit, perhaps it is time to get our priorities straight.

It is long time past for the government to cut the cr@p!

Georgetwin! and Sophie! Hippies
handing out tire gauges! That's precious!!

Sophie Darlin'! Lighten up! If the Doggg gets wind of your crappy attitude about your nuptials being announced on the threads, he's liable to call the whole thing off. The wedding of the decade being called off? Boo Hoo

Summers
In regards to your 2:04pm post....


HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That was hilarious!

My my, ya'll get very peevish when I'm
right!

I made two claims.

1) that most great nations have in fact publicly sponsored art and culture.

and

2) that our founding fathers recognized the importance of publicly fostering arts and culture.

Both of these claims have been sufficiently proven.

If you read the article, you'd also see that we have always supported the arts, even before the NEA, even if it was done in a less obvious fashion.

I've also referenced the fact that the U.S. has been losing it's competive edge on the global stage in a variety of ways.

There's no need to be poor losers!

With all the practice your side has recently had at being losers, I would think you'd have learned to be a bit more gracious!

Don't forget - you got another big loss coming in November!

Now go put some cheez whiz on a pork rind and wash it down with some Boone's Farm!






Georgetwin! I'm gonna
contact my mole at Recreate 68 and suggest they pass out tire gauges at the DNC. What do you think?

Jesus WAS a great Jew!
Too bad so many of his followers are so obnoxious!

ChristianLib excepted of course.

Oh Jesus! Protect me from your followers!

lolo1
hope you are doing well.

the king of france commisioned divinci and that was the government at the time, he also gave him a castle to live in.

as sophie pointed out, early on in our history, many presidents supported the arts with funding.

you and burts original point was that the goverment had no business supporting the arts.


now you can disagree with what or who is funded, that is a legitimate discussion,


but it is a fact that art has been funded through history by governments.

You know, Lo,
I had not thought of that. What is he going to command? He would want to save the Bands to play 'Hail to the Creep' for him.

Whoever said that Sophie...
... is the "feminine" version of "Robert" - I'm beginning to see what you mean.

"Robert" comes here, posts some inane, off-topic arguments, gets his butt whipped, then claims to be the "winner".

At least Sophie doesn't bore us with claims of a life ala Walter Mitty.

Other than that - not much difference.

Support of Military hmmmmm?
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call _vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00341

McCain voted against giving troops adequate rest and time with family before redeployments....

Obama voted yes.

McCain voted against additional

McCain votes against bill
that would proved additional funding by closing corporate loop holes...

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_ call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00041

Obama votes for it.

christianlib
From a strict definition of "government", I will grant you that Kings and Popes sponsored the artists of their days.

However, such an example hardly applies to a representative republic government where citizens actually have a voice in how tax dollars should be spent.

I don't imagine the "citizens" (known as "subjects" in those days) had much say in the matter, do you?


Obama's Legislative Accomplishments:



















.

McCain votes against
funding for luxery items for military....

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_ call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00040

Ooops!

That wasn't for luxuries....

It was for needed safety equipment...

Sophie
Did you read the bills connected to those votes? It seems not. haha! You took the title at face value...perhaps you should read the entire bill. That last one is all about raising taxes, not the funding.

again McCain votes against funding

Our nut job Sophie...

I'm sure she's right at home on the left coast.
My guess is either San Fran or Berkley.

Why do all the nuts end of in California? It's like the place has some kind of homing device sending out a message:

"To all wacky, nut jobs. Come to La La Land. You're always welcome here."

Sophie
My comment was on:

McCain votes against bill
that would proved additional funding by closing corporate loop holes...

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_ call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00041

Obama votes for it.

McCain didn't
bother showing up to vote for the Webb G.I. Bill....

He went to a swanky CA fundraiser instead.

Obama voted for it.

Jesse Helms was a flaming bigot
Contrary to good ol' Burt's column, Jesse Helms was not well known because of his stance against the NEA. He was mainly known for being the most unapologetic racist in Congress.

He was widely rumored to be a Klansman in NC. He was against almost every civil rights bill that was presented during his tenure.

Burt is once again trying to revise history. He wants to make people forget about Helms' extremely painful rhetoric. He was one of the very few politicians who never tried to make amends for his behavior during the very trying times in our country.

Screw Jesse Helms! He deserves no admiration. History will not be friendly to him. But, I think it will be nicer to him than what those hell-hounds are doing to him now.

Primus
Great Britain and France ARE representative governments now and BOTH have offices of culture and arts.

Most people are proud to see their countries excell.

Sophie
You need to learn to analyze. That is a major weakness when you are debating politics. Those bills, sure they have those small things about medical this and that, but that is not the main part of the bill. That is the democrats titling the bill so they can get it passed. You should read the actual bill before you post that stuff up.

primus 54
how you doing by the way.

i saw last week someone stole your nickname.
what a stupid and senseless thing to do.


anyway, you make a valid point, never-the-less my orginal post simply stated that government support for arts was not something new.

vito
Per your 1:43 PM post. You said "Burt is a has been". Vito,you are a "never was".

Speaking of the Military Hustler Pup
Why aren't YOU over in Iraq?

If I recall you are of prime military age...

You don't want to pay for the war in the form of taxes to support our troops...

Yet I have the feeling you are a little hawk...(sqwack sqwack!)

What exactly is your contribution to the war effort?

sophie
You do realize that McCain has competing bills right?

You are not good at subterfuge but you are good at deflection.

Sophie
Actually I am thinking of joining the Air Force after I graduate. A college degree will help me loads when becoming a pilot. Ill continue to think about it...and while I do that...you can think about yourself. We have equal rights here you know. Since you asked, why aren't you over there?

And btw...since you changed the subject...does that mean you forfeit all those bills in my favor? Couldn't analyze them yourself?

Primus
I think Anne made that comparison earlier. However, I think Robert lives in some fantasy world and is limited in scope and intelligence. Sophie seems to have graduated from the school of trivial pursuit and is perfecting her skills in vulgarity. If she wanted, Sophie could actually carry on a civil conversation. However, that does not seem to be the reason she appears here.

Sophie and Taxes
Again, you cannot analyze...its like teaching a first grader...my gosh. Are you really that stupid or do you just play stupid on these boards?

If we lower taxes again...our IRS revenues will go up again. Its been proven twice in recent history...actually 3 times if you include Reagan. Those are facts you cannot argue.

So me wanting the federal government to stop funding unconstitutional programs and instead spend money where it should et al...military, roads etc...that is not supporting the military? Seems to me that the liberals are bent on spending our money elsewhere...which would be removing money from the military. Perhaps you should take some classes on reading and comprehension.

Hell No I Won't Go!
I'm not the military type...plus I didn't support this godforsaken misadventure.

I see you put your ambition over your duty to country though.

Tsk Tsk.

Join after college hmmm? After the real danger is conveniently over I suppose?

They coulda used you for the surge, man!

And I concede nothing.

As is typical of your kind, you not only want someone else to do the fighting, you don't even want to pay for that someone's service.

Typical.

R.A.M.
You should be ashamed of yourself for talking about Senator Helms that way. He is no longer with us and you debase his memory.

In my opinion he was the total opposite of everything you said. You have your opinion,but you are wrong in it.


ModMark
That could work as well. I have actually wanted to be a fighter pilot for some years though. I just love going fast. There are many variables though that could change where I end up, so we will see.

Writing software is fun though. :)

Oh little Hustler Hawk...
You just believe everything you're told dontchya?

Here's some interesting reading for you....

http://www.cbpp.org/3-8-06tax.htm

Sophie
Maybe you could remind us all since you know so much. What does it take to be a fighter pilot?? Perhaps a college education? My gosh...the idiot just keeps getting dumber. If this continues Im going to have to start posting this on my lib quote blog.

So you don't support Afghanistan? Because we need people over there...putting your own ambition above the countries? "As is typical of your kind, you not only want someone else to do the fighting, you don't even want to pay for that someone's service."

Pray tell...how is raising the IRS revenues and wanting to spend less on unconstitutional not wanting to pay for the military? And remember, you didn't read those bills you posted above, obviously

Haha!!! Like taking candy from a baby arguing with you! Could you be any easier to make a fool of? Perhaps you could give me lead on questions? I think I might bring in my little sister to debate you...her mental capacity would still outmatch you though. Ill have to find an unborn for you to debate for a fun equal match.

ModMark
Did you intend to say a man for all seasons? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Even the meanest of intelligences would not be so daft as to describe Robert that way.

What are you?

Sophie
http://www.cbpp.org/3-8-06tax.htm

That is your source? haha!!!

That doesn't take into account the recession Bill Clinton gave to Bush. It doesn't take into account the terrorist attack on 9/11. Im really starting to laugh over here Sophie. Are you trying to show the fallacy of your logic before I even have to?

That article is basing that this recession had a weaker comeback. Tell me..which of the recession prior to this came with a massive terrorist attack attached to it? This article is comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps you should go read the IRS revenue statements. Those numbers don't lie.

ModMark
The spending is what is killing us. Those tax cuts kept us from delving into another recession but instead gave us minor growth despite 9/11. The numbers are out there.

I agree that the deficit is killing us, but tax cuts did not cause it...spending did.

Little Hustler Hawk
Last time I heard they didn't JUST need fighter pilots in Iraq...

You can go now if you like. You're needed. You can put duty over ambition.

In fact fighter pilots are probably low on the list of priorities in Iraq...

Or are you just too stuck on your widdle Top Gun fantasy?

As for your increased revenue, try doing some more research...or my link.

And as for me going to Afghanistan...I'm an old woman of 35! I think they're better off without me. If your dumba$$ president wouldn't have stretched the military too thin with his reckless cowboy adventure in Iraq, there be plenty of military in Afghanistan.

ModMark
What do you get out of posting here?

ModMark
I am going to look thoroughly into everything before signing on. I know a good portion from from their academy, but many from from IT colleges as well. They like engineering degrees, so that should help me. We'll see.

Sophie
Does everyone see this reasoning?

"And as for me going to Afghanistan...I'm an old woman of 35! I think they're better off without me. If your dumba$$ president wouldn't have stretched the military too thin with his reckless cowboy adventure in Iraq, there be plenty of military in Afghanistan. "

Hahaha!!! 35?! thats all and your claiming old age? I know personally two uncles that went over there and they are both over 40, so Ill start playing my violin as you go over. haha! I would also like to remind you that we have plenty in the military everywhere. We have 150k in iraq and over 1.2 million active duty. So, again your logic is horrible.

I would like to remind you, we live in a free country. I am free to follow my ambitions. I know your communist dreams are not that of freedom, but we are still a republic last I heard. Thanks for playing. I got a very good laugh today.

Your link sucked btw, I debunked it on its basis alone. Apples and oranges. Learn to analyze before posting, it helps when you are trying to argue instead of saying..."my link", "my link", "my link". haha!!!

Summers
Ok, Ive had my fun...I will resume what I said before...ignoring her. Man that was fun though. Sometimes I just have to do it...

Reagan liked to raise taxes too,
Top Gunner....



"Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion. According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. Bruce Bartlett, A Taxing Experience, National Review Online, Oct. 29, 2003."


CKHustler
Like stepping on hot gum on a sidewalk, after a while it gets tiresome.