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Monday, April 21, 2008
Burt Prelutsky :: Townhall.com Columnist
Viewing the 1960s from my 60s
by Burt Prelutsky
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Even though I’m embarrassed to have been a Democrat for so many years, I’m proud that even in my 20’s, I thought the 60’s was the worst decade in America’s history.

Because I was born in 1940, I was at UCLA for some of those years and had a bird’s eye view of my fellow college students. It was not a pretty sight.

What makes that time the source of so much nostalgia for so many people of my age -- the incessant folk songs, the tie-dyed shirts and blouses, the granny glasses, the bongs, the infantile anti-establishment content that permeated so much popular culture -- made me yawn even then.

The young folks in those days were on the right side of the civil rights movement, but that was the extent of their good works. The anti-war campaign was a charade, having far less to do with pacifism than with lack of courage and discipline. The draft was still going strong and it was fear, not moral principles, which led young men to flee to Canada or to burn their draft cards.

The baby-boomers born in the years after World War II were members of the most coddled generation America had ever seen. From birth, they had been treated like royalty, privileged and spoiled not for any special qualities or accomplishments, but simply because they existed and were their parents’ little darlings.

Nobody should have been too surprised that as they came of age, they were a religion onto themselves. Their not so holy trinity consisted of sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll. I never really got a handle on how that made them so special. But gods do not have to explain themselves.

Their favorite line, the one about not trusting anybody over the age of 30, wasn’t just an inane catchphrase. It became the order of the day, not just for those under 30, but those well past it. It wasn’t just wars they got to judge, either, but movies, music, TV shows, books and politicians. It fell on children to bestow the equivalent of the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

The fact that they weren’t particularly knowledgeable or even open-minded, except, of course, when it came to sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll, only added to their mystique. Unlike adults, the thinking went, they hadn’t sold out. What made their bullshit so totally odious was the fact that their elders, for the most part, bought into it. In addition, because they were so lacking in humor, their solemnity was taken for sincerity.

Even back then, I found it disturbing that for the first time in human history, youngsters didn’t want to be adults. Worse yet, neither did adults. As a result, one could almost have sympathized with the contempt the kids felt for grown-ups if it hadn’t inevitably led to contempt for America. It also led to a soft spot in their hearts for any and all of our nation’s enemies, which, at the time, included such arch villains as the Viet Cong, Mao, Che Guevara, Chou En-lai and Fidel Castro.

The prevailing lies were so self-evident that I couldn’t imagine how it was that so many people could be so self-deluded. For instance, there was a great deal of self-serving blather about individualism. But most of those doing the blathering wore identical clothes, listened to the same music, went to all the same movies and mouthed the very same clichés. There was more individualism to be found in a flock of sheep.

Perhaps the biggest lie fomented back then was something called the Free Speech Movement. It was like something taken straight out of George Orwell’s “1984.” The title, alone, would have made Big Brother smirk. The movement, which stretched across America’s college campuses from UC Berkeley to Columbia, consisted of student radicals commandeering offices and classrooms, doing their level best to silence professors and administrators who didn’t buy into their fascistic dogma. Funny how little some things have changed over the years.

Today, the children and the grandchildren of those flower children are also in favor of free speech, but only so long as those speaking share their politics and their prejudices.

Because those radical idiots lacked both reading skills and any semblance of self-awareness, they didn’t realize that they were very much like the totalitarians that Orwell had in mind. When in “Animal Farm,” Orwell’s villainous pig dictator, Napoleon, standing in for Stalin, altered the original battle cry of the barnyard revolution from “all animals are equal,” to “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others,” he had the Soviet oligarchy in mind, but, unfortunately, it very neatly summed up the thoughts and actions of America’s own youthful swine of the sixties.

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About The Author
W. Burt Prelutsky is an accomplished, well-rounded writer and author of "The Secret of Their Success: Interviews with Legends and Luminaries."
 
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Twins
Once again, my friend, Burt, I suspect we are twins, even born in the same year. Your essay expressed perfectly how I, too, felt at that time, and I, too, was a democrat way back then. The relationship is uncanny.

60's
Thank you for saying it. I am much younger than you (1942) but I couldn't make sense of much in that decade either.

Drugs? what the H**l was point in that?

Roaming around in work boots as a college student(?). How did that make sense?

The total abdication of "in loco parentis" by college administrators made me sick.

College curricula being altered by the inmates made no sense.

It went on and on. The only thing I remember that worked for me was the young women without makeup and wearing long straight hair... a constant turn on for me, I loved that!

Generation that never grew up
The '60s were a nightmare. I remember drugged-out hippies wandering down our street lokking like zombie-hobos.

So many of the problems America faces today started growing and festering in that decade.

The Writer Stops By Briefly
Dear Juseff--Thank you. Now I know whom to turn to if I ever need someone to donate a kidney.

Best wishes, Burt

Will the real greatest gen. please stand
Burt Prelutski is putting his finger on something I have been ruminating on. My grandparents fought WWII and went on ration cards for their country; I love my grandparents dearly, and am grateful to them.

And yet I would not give them the title, "the greatest generation." It is their parents who were the greatest generation. The reason is that they were able to pass down their spirituality, discipline and patriotism to their own children.

The "greatest generation" raised their children just as the author describes:

"The baby-boomers born in the years after World War II were members of the most coddled generation America had ever seen. From birth, they had been treated like royalty, privileged and spoiled not for any special qualities or accomplishments, but simply because they existed and were their parents’ little darlings." And it was this failure at parenting that threatens to outweigh their other accomplishments.

When will we stop reaping this Purple Haze?

Great article.




JP
I grew up in the 80's, but with a room full of my Stepdad's 60's albums. I became completely immersed in the idealism of the 60's. (I still say 'The Moody Blues changed my life'.) Via the music I soon became interested in poetry, literature and beauty in nature, over the shallow pursuits of just sex, drugs and such of many kids my age. My peers were listening to Van Halen and Duran Duran, and I was listening to Joni Mitchell, CSN and Dylan, etc.

All this in a nutshell did help me long for and discover a deeper popular culture than was available, to the average American teen, in the 1980's. It helped me discover a longing for goodness, which eventually led to my becoming a Christian and a conservative.

I don't know about that YYtrium
I am a baby booomer and my parents neverr spoiled me or my siblings. We barely had anything and dad worked hard to make wages that I passed long ago, yet we not only got by, we actually thrived.

Once I was grown and married my parents were finally able to relax a bit but they haven't really slowed down all that much.
And like all parents turned, Grand, then Great Grandparents, they delight in "spoiling" my kids and now MY grandkids rotten to "get even with you for what you put us through."

But not to worry, they also enforce discipline on them, and as when I was younger, I'm still taking lessons on all of it from them.
This time in how to spoil my grandson, and now my new Granddaughter who made her grand entry into the world on April 12th.

And Burt, another great article
But we would expect nothing less from you. Keep up the good work.

Always a conservative--
I was a conservative (not popular with some) in the 60's. But hey, the foxy ladies in mini skirts and a lot of the music was great. I hated the drug culture and still do. But, I had acquired just enough common sense to work like hel: so I could try and amount to something. Many others got too caught up in the "turned on" life style and faded badly. Me and my other weightlifting friends (chicks too) wanted to stay healthy.. Thanks to my parents and their wisdom, I have survived in good shape.

A bit of decorum...

"What made their bulls**t so totally odious was the fact that their elders, for the most part, bought into it".

Never expected to find THAT kind of language on THIS site.

Parents from 60's
My parents were young adults in the 1960's. To this day they are self absorbed. With a large retirement windfall they still feel justified in having their medications subsidized by their children and grandchildren who struggle much more than them. Why?

I'm in my forties and ask myself if I will be willing to forfeit my children and grandchildren's future for my government benefits? Europeans have answered this questions as they turn their country over to outsiders. Our country seems to be making the same deal with the devil. Is it only Burt's generation or is it human nature? Is it all about us?

Prelutsky
You must have been one boring twit. The '60's
were great - if you managed to stay off drugs,
which I did.

Too bad you missed out on all the fun.

Slim Jim
What a sourpuss outlook on life. You must have
one heck of a relationship with your parents.
Maybe you just envy their success.

I find your comment about the Europeans turning
over their country to outsiders interesting. I don't really know that much about European migration, but our country has always been about taking outsiders in. It's a good thing. W have always been angry about
the next wave of immigrants (we always want to
close that door as soon as we have kicked our suitcases inside the door) but in fact immigration is what makes our country as great
as it is.

Now, go apologize to your "self-absorbed" parents. I'll bet you are easily as self-absorbed as they are as you weep over the thought
of having to take care of them in their dotage.
Just imagine what it would be like if you had
to take them into your home. I'll be that would
really drive you nuts.

Your kids will probably say the same thing about
you when they have to pay for our war.

viruddh
You are obviously unaware of the European situation. Those outsiders want to kill Europeans and us as well. They have been trying to do so since the 7th century. It's multi cultists like you who have made a deal with the devil for your own greed and want of more and more things. I'd rather go through economic hardship than see my culture and ancestral homeland defiled and raped by a horde of marauding barbarians. You would make an excellent dhimmi- as long as you can afford to pay the jizzya.

viruddh
It's just a wonder that dhimmis like you can't learn from history. Where on earth in history has someone actually WANTED to live with a totally alien culture that threatens their very existence? No one did- and if they were forced they fought against it and rightly so.
Libs like you just love denying reality and facts.

Hurrah, A Canadian with backbone
For Canada17,


After seeing the newspaper publisher inquisition by Canadian authorities and hearing that Mark Steyn's book America Alone may soon be banned 'up North" due to its alleged insensitivities to Muslim throat-cutters, I had lost hope that we Americans had any kindred spirits left in Canada. Glad your likes are not yet extinct.



To Fighter4right
Steyn is my favourite political commentator up here. It's sad that the government is going after free speech. Thanks for your support as well. Steyn is right, the US is the only bastion of civilisation that can fight. BTW, I plan on buying his book as soon as I am done university in 3 days!!!

The "60s" Largely a Myth
This subject has come up several times and Burt I will agree about the late 60s up to a point. Personally, I think that all of the crap you see and hear about the 60s is overblown hype. Look at it this way; when you say the campuses were taken over by “radicals” you are already implying at least one thing, that it was a small group of people doing the “taking”. The facts are that only a few campuses out of thousands had their admin buildings blocked by these idiots and it was usually no more than a 15 or 20 idiots out of thousands who are normally on a large campus. So you have maybe a few hundred radicals at best nationwide over tens of thousand college students.

The same thing was occurring throughout the rest of the country except in the mainstream there were even fewer of these drugged out radicals and hippies. The overwhelming majority of the young people then did their daily business just like mom and pop. Most were drafted and a lot, like me, joined so that they could have something of a choice.

Yes Burt, if you look at the media you would wonder how we ever got past the 60s and why we even have people available today to do anything. And one last thing, what most people think of the 60s with the tie-dyed stuff and the acid rock music did not come around until 1968. Woodstock occurred in 1969. It was really the 70s that made the most of that.

60s
Your remark about fear versus courage and discipline were right on the mark. I remember that when the draft was eliminated the war protests practically went away but the war went on for another two years. They didn't care anymore who got killed as long as it wan't them.

Vic
touches on two important points. First, it's highly unlikely that any era was quite like its press coverage. Second, the '70s were pretty grim. Along with the hangover from the '60s -- the Weather Underground, the SLA, the abandonment of Southeast Asia, the Killing Fields, the Church hearings, Jonestown -- it brought leisure suits, disco, AMC Pacers, _Love American Style_, Jimmy Carter, and the Ayatollah Khomeini. Even now I shudder to recall that decade.

I seem to remember some guy named Spock
He changed childrearing quite a bit, didn't he?
And that was in the 60s.

Most of middle America that I know well had nothing to do with that nonsense. They did the same they always did - you had a lot of money, your kids were rotten, you had a little, your kids were a little rotten. But if you not no real money, your kids were as down to earth as you were.

And another author that made it big at the same time frame was (Dr) Kinsey. The sex from that era (to now) is all thanks to that jerk.

Another one that changed the landscape was not really a writer (don't know of any books by him anyway.) but he is Timothy leary. The drug culture really took off with him.

Add Elvis and the Beatles and that 'British Invasion" nonsense and you get your sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Very Nice Summation
Well done.

The useful idiots
I was born in 1941, and disagree with the notion that our generation was treated like royalty. My own nose, and those of my friends and relatives, was pretty well held to the grindstone. I was much too busy with school, post-grad training and then a new husband to bother with tuning in, turning on and dropping out.

The thing that was most notable about the sixties/early seventies was that teenage rebellion, which adults in previous generations basically ignored in the knowledge that This Too Shall Pass, was given totally unmerited credence.

It was seized upon and treated as a Cause Celebre by folks who were essentially Communist sympathizers, and who wanted to see the U.S. defeated in what amounted to a proxy war with the U.S.S.R.

As BillK9 points out, the protests disappeared when Nixon eliminated the draft. Though by that time the damage was done both socially and militarily, it does illustrate that all the kicking and screaming was driven more by fear than by ideology, and that the kids gave new meaning to the term “useful idiots”.

It occurred to me years later that many of these rebels were the sons and daughters of WWII veterans. At the time, post-traumatic stress was not a recognized entity, and psychiatric treatment was socially stigmatized. I can’t help but wonder if these kids were such easy meat because of growing up with fathers who were too damaged to be emotionally available. Just a thought.

Excellent Column again! :-)

I was in HS and college during those years, and took a some heat because I supported our soldiers and the war effort.

I found absolutely nothing alluring, or even interesting about the "hippies" and their lifestyle.

Burt is spot on, "...baby-boomers born in the years after World War II were members of the most coddled generation America had ever seen."

The problem is, each generation since has also been the "most coddled generation America had ever seen."

The sex and drugs are still around, but instead of the tie-died shirts, we now have guys wearing their pants around their knees, and girls wearing... well... not much at all.

Show me a 5th grader who doesn't have his/her own cell phone, and I'll show you 200 who do. And try to come up with some kid who doesn't have an iPod and the latest version of Play Station.

We're not learning anything...




Stuck in the 60s
Virrudh writes:

"You must have been one boring twit. The '60's were great - if you managed to stay off drugs, which I did.

Too bad you missed out on all the fun."

Sounds like you're still stuck in the 60s. You only dismissed Prelutsky's comments about drugs, which barely appear in his column. So that would suggest you're still thinking the self-deifying thoughts about free love and rock 'n' roll, pretending that because you say "love" and "peace" a bunch of times in response to every thought, your banal culture of narcissism will bring about world peace if you can just manage to force everybody to do things your shallow way.

We can see this completely infantile worldview at work in dozens of movies, cartoons, and books -- stupid things like "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" and "Empire Records," uneducated kids without a single principle or virtue, sexually promiscuous and intellectually incompetent, actually believing that their "love and peace" music (which is, in fact, angry, self-absorbed, and demonic) will somehow produce a stable culture of peace and acceptance. I knew the people who lived by those creeds -- they were some of the worst human beings on the planet, and the notion that they could love even themselves, let alone the person next to them, was complete self-delusion.

And now, they're the parents of my kids' friends. The f*** up the school board with Marcusian idiocy, they smoke dope in their homes in front of their kids, they hand condoms to their teenagers and say "Have a good time," and they all vote Democratic.

This describes American liberalism to a "T," and now, they're deconstructing western civilization, brick by brick.

Oh, the 60s were SO much fun...

Vito you are
obviously a a troll plant who reads neither the column nor the posts. Go back and try again or just go away.

Sour grapes
Vito writes:

"Burt, your article has a "sour-grapes" tone to it. It seems you're harboring a deep resentment that you missed out on sex, drugs, and rock & roll."

Actually, Vito, we're harboring a deep resentment that our stable, virtuous, and properly-raised kids have to share the culture with the vicious, virtueless, promiscuous, irresponsible, intellectually empty, nihilistic s**ts that mindless idiots like you have raised -- and they'll suffer right along with them as you and your kids continue to demolish Western civilization.

Yeah, we're kinda resentful about that.

Hey Vito: Thanks for sharing!
.

Vito
Most of the TH regulars who post here everyday address those issues and Burt's column did mention the civil rights stuff.

You have failed to read it.

Right Subject--Wrong Decade
I was born in 1946--that makes me 61 (yikes) I graduated in 1946. People don't remember that up until 1965 the early 60's were much like the 1950's.

It was the late 60's and all of the 70's that brought in all the nonsense.


Even then I thought it was a crock. Tied-dyed t-shirts, Che Guevera, free-love. How boring compared to idealism, love that was romantic, mysterious but still attainable.

Thee hippies were boring. They always loooked to me like they had lice and not just on their head.


The 60's have given me a job for life!
"Even back then, I found it disturbing that for the first time in human history, youngsters didn’t want to be adults. Worse yet, neither did adults."

Though the entire article is very much in keeping with my own observations and experiences , the quote I have pasted is the most important truth, and its precisely why I have my job. We would not need the onslaught of "mental health" services is we had more adults in the house. Most of what I do is surrogate parenting, but its called counseling.

One of the most off-base 60's birthed assumptions is that teens don't want to talk to adults during their time of "individuation", only peers. I've been working with teens for 25 years, and they actively SEEK OUT mature adults, and they resent the childish "adults" in their lives, however its manifested.

There's much more to say, but I'm leaving for work. Good column!


Vito

"Burt, your article has a "sour-grapes" tone to it. It seems you're harboring a deep resentment that you missed out on sex, drugs, and rock & roll"

Mised out? None of us have "missed out". There are plenty of addicts, rehabs, addicted babies and kids, birth defects, assorted STI's, broken homes that were never intact to begin with, kids with self-serving gratification mongers as "parents" etc... for all of society to deal with for as long as we should last.

"Missed out". Gads.

It takes two paraents
to raise a child. How was the divorce rate changing during that period?

Unwashed Freaks
Kate writes:


****Thee hippies were boring. They always loooked to me like they had lice and not just on their head.****

I hear you, and would add that they didn't just look like they had lice. I remember hippies in the seventies. They stunk and they wore this junk called Patchouli Oil to try and cover up the stench from their bodies. Of course it only made it worse. I hated having to pass by those idiots; the stench would make you gag.

I'll say something else. I, because I was a christian and because I had morals instilled in me by my family, I didn't buy any of that "free love" garbage, but I always wondered how they would pull that off. I mean, who in their right mind, moral considerations aside, could possibly desire to sleep with any of those unwashed, stinky, freaky looking idiots?

Oh, the humanity.

Great Article Burt
I was born early 1941. My parents were typical, my Mother was a housewife my Father worked in a factory, we were poor and lived in a big city. We lived in a neighborhood that included all races and creeds. The Fathers in my neighborhood looked out for us kids and it was common for any Father to discipline us when we erred and than marched us to our own Father. My Father used to sit on the porch and visit with the neighbors and they each had keys to the other houses in case of emergencies. We were mainly whites and blacks and said "yes maam" and "yes sir" when addressing adults.

We kids loved to sit and talk to a very old black man (over 100) who told us about cowboys and indians and wars. He said he remembered the war between the states 'faintly' we all got along.

I was drafted into the Army and didn't even consider not doing my duty for my neighbors and friends. I went in a boy and came out a man. I think every child should go through basic training. Racial strife and hating America came about during the 60's - I was there and saw it develop.

I listened to MLK and believed in his message. What happened to America?

Vito
I will ot say what you come across as since it would get me booted. I'll just say to KMA and go away. Go haunt some liberal site.

The 60s and sports
The 60s ended for me in the late 70s when a soccer team came to town. I expected that the only people to show up would be my fellow 60s lovers, because they were the ones who were open-minded, tolerant and accepting of new things, especially if they were from other cultures.

Instead, they didn't show up, but others did. People in fraternities and sororities (whom we despised back in the 60s), people in the military, young suburbanites with families --- these were the people who showed up and not those 60s gits.

My rebellious generation turned out to be utterly conventional when it came to sports.

Anne
I hear you about the way children were spoiled, and are still being spoiled.

I have to wonder, if the parents of the baby boomers just didn't take the time to work with their children and instill morals in them and teach them what they needed to know to grow up and become responsible adults.

I know my own son has more toys and things that I did growing up, but I do spend a lot of time with him as well. My wife and I make a great effort to teach him right from wrong, to instill morals in him, and be there to answer his questions.

I have to wonder how often the parents of the hippies were available and willing to do for their children what I do with mine.

Anne
By the way, a hearty good morning to you!

Burt
"The young folks in those days were on the right side of the civil rights movement, but that was the extent of their good works."

One sentence???? Just one? Could it be that the very foundation of the conservative movement comes out of the white supremists of the segratgated South? Could it it be that now that fundamentalist conservatism is crashing and burning in such a spectacular fashion you must harken way beck to the 60s?

" The anti-war campaign was a charade, having far less to do with pacifism than with lack of courage and discipline. The draft was still going strong and it was fear, not moral principles, which led young men to flee to Canada or to burn their draft cards. "

Ahh yes I am sure there was a bit of that but hardly the majority. Here you go again making another claim with zero support. The truth is that was when the people realised that their Government was lieing to them (the TET offensive proved that beyond a doubt) combined with condoning a racist, Southern police state, the VAST majority of the American people joined with the youth to change everything. Too bad they were stopped short by extremist assinations of their leaders. Who can imagine how much better off this country would be if Reagan/Bushs never happened. So stop whining about your failed conservatism, you sound so bitter and isolated. Meanwhile let the rest of us get to the business of repairing and rebuilding the country.

Principles vs Fear
Born in 1954, I well remember my high school senior trip to Cedar Point and a gaggle of young men riding the "Blue Streak" roller coaster endlessly, arms in the air with our "Peace Sign" fingers, and yelling out "End the War" to the world.

Yes, we intellectualized our disgust for Viet Nam, but the simple truth was we didn't want to risk our young lives - we still had too much "living" ahead of us - and we were afraid.

Excellent column, Burt. As usual.

Anne
Yes, compared to the depression era 30s the children of the 60s and 70s were spoiled. However, compared to the 60s and 70s the children of today are much more spoiled.

Not of the Sixties
I was the first of my family to graduate from high school and the first on both sides to graduate from university. I was one of five girls whose parents just celebrated their 62nd anniversary, and who brought us up on a combined income that never exceeded $10,000 per year. They took no charity and asked for no assistance, and they brought us up to love God and look after one another.

I was the only conservative in my 125 member class at University and I am proud to say I converted many.

There were no hippies at my Bible College; and at University on the first Earth Day we all drove to school and if we had to, we borrowed or rented cars to do it -- and as the ceremonies began we all started honking our horns.

The so called hippies were a tiny minority of the population and because of the MSM have blackened the name of the rest of us forever.

Fox has some stupid people working for
them. They just posted a graphic about the kid with the bomb materials with ther label Chesterfield HS, Columbia, SC. Chesterfield HS is in Chesterfiled which is near the SC/NC border and over a hundred miles from Columbia. AP filed the story in Columbia so the idiots don't even bother to check a map.

Vito,
I went back to your first comment at 6:32 and it was so full of nitwitish (my post, I can make up words if I wish) comments that, after reading it twice, I wonder if you know where you are. Hey, surprise, TH is a conservative/Republican/rightwing leaning site. Don't like it, bail.

Also, you haven't been around here long enough to wail on Burt. He's the only one with the in-your-face willingness to actually say things like 'bullsh!t' and mean it like it sounds.

Finally, if you want constant haranging of Bush, there are plenty of places you can post to your heart's desire, so head on out.

60's
In keeping with the Townhall unwritten rules, you can only bash the left, the author fails to point out the conservatives were right up there supporting the seggreationists. Conservatives, many of whom at the time were deomocrats in the south were opposed to anti-lynching laws, and the voting rights act. Ask yourself, if there were a townhall them what would they be saying about the civil rights movement and MLK. Conservatives were also big supporter of the domino theory which was the premise for the Vietnam War, which by any measure was a terrible mistake. The extent to which the Anti-war movement brought about greater public awareness of the lies of the Johnson and later Nixon Administrations that was a positive.

As to the college culture, the author is dead on. The 60's fueled the seeds of the PC movement on campus that is in so many ways antithetical to the principles of open discussion.

In outspoken moderate or conservatice opinions would get you pounced upon or beaten up on campuses. It was the far left's best of times because there were so many upper middle class kids who were listening and singing that they thought the world had changed. Then the war ended and they graduated and went to wall street, or into the corporate culture, bought big houses in the suburbes, and for many changed their political affiliation to Republicans. Those on the far left remained a small marginalized group (Expect among the ranks of college professors)

Hal "LMAO®" Donahue writes:
"Could it be that the very foundation of the conservative movement comes out of the white supremists (sic) of the segratgated (sic) South? Could it it be that now that fundamentalist conservatism is crashing and burning in such a spectacular fashion you must harken (sic) way beck (sic)to the 60s?"

Fundamentalist conservatism is "crashing and burning"?

Hal confuses conservatives' rejection of a Dem-Lite candidate, and disdain for the leftward drift of the GOP, as evidence that conservatism is being rejected.

Wrong again, Hal. But you just keep telling yourself that - maybe your "dreams" will someday come true.

BTW, Hal. When you get your monthly military retirement check - you should say a prayer for Ronald Reagan. Another term of Jimmy Carter and it might have been much smaller.

Awe geeze, here we go again!!!

Isn't it just a little early, doofus???

"... the very foundation of the conservative movement comes out of the white supremists of the segratgated South?"

Another baseless, hair-brained, meaningless statement.

"... that fundamentalist conservatism is crashing and burning in such a spectacular fashion you must harken way beck to the 60s?"

In your dreams!

" The anti-war campaign was a charade, having far less to do with pacifism than with lack of courage and discipline. The draft was still going strong and it was fear, not moral principles, which led young men to flee to Canada or to burn their draft cards. "

"The truth is that was when the people realised that their Government was lieing (and btw, it's "lying")to them (the TET offensive proved that beyond a doubt) combined with condoning a racist,.."

doofus always thinks the gov't. is lying, but he still wants a bigger gov't.

"Too bad they were stopped short by extremist assinations of their leaders."

That's pretty close to sedition, doofus, opposition intended to change or overthrow existing authority. And you wonder why everyone thinks you're not quite stable? You're OUT OF YOUR MIND!!!

And you wonder why NO ONE believes that you were ever and Air Force officer.



HalD
I suppose by now that I view you and your ideas with disdain, scorn and contempt. I usually comment about you with the ridicule you so richly deserve.

You no nothing about HONOR and DUTY. I was an assistant instructor in technical classes when I was a young teen. I knew much about the political process and failures then.

I was drafted and did my DUTY, not because I didn't understand the political situation but because of my DUTY to my family and my neighbors.

This is something that you fail to grasp. We vote out politically those whom disagree with and do our DUTY the rest of the time.

BTW, I want to challenge you with the same challenge I made with another Narcisstic individual - $100,000 bet that my IQ is at least 20 points higher than yours. I could probably spot you 50 points but I like sure bets.

What would that prove - that you are not smarter than an old conservative.

Hal, you are such a pain
Hal
"The truth is that was when the people realised that their Government was lieing to them (the TET offensive proved that beyond a doubt) combined with condoning a racist, Southern police state, the VAST majority of the American people joined with the youth to change everything. Too bad they were stopped short by extremist assinations of their leaders."

The government didn't lie about Tet, which we won, Walter Kronkite declared it a loss. Once the grandfatherly figure of the MSM spoke, it was downhill from there. We've done a lot of growing up now, and don't put much stock in the words of the MSM which is so obviously slanted towards the Democratic party. The ad MoveOn put up against ABC for asking Obama a decent question is delicious irony. As a Southerner, I did not observe the VAST majority join to change everything, we continued to obey our government. When the laws were changed, we obeyed them. That was called social order then. Now the kids have nothing but contempt for the law and the police. A return to simple civility would be great. For instance, I take exception to you calling our President dunce-in-chief. That displays gross disrespect for the office and the man. However, I would say that a man who is a graduate of Harvard and Yale does not fit my definition of a dunce. AND he got better grades than Kerry and Gore. Who's the dunce now?

Hey doofus: If huffy-puffy is paying you

to convince posters on TH to become liberals, don't spend that money yet.....

Trust me, you're not getting paid!!!

Vic
"Fox has some stupid people working for them."

For the first time ever, I completely agree with you.

Primus54
"Hal confuses conservatives' rejection of a Dem-Lite candidate, and disdain for the leftward drift of the GOP, as evidence that conservatism is being rejected."

Ahh you confuse your total failure to get the candidate you wanted as what, success? The fact that you have a RINO (your definition not mine) as a candidate is because you could not get a conservative elected. Over? You but wish it was ssooner

"..BTW, Hal. When you get your monthly military retirement check - you should say a prayer for Ronald Reagan. Another term of Jimmy Carter and it might have been much smaller."

LOL you are right Carter was almost as big a disaster as Bush for the military. I picture them in a fight forever arguing all the way who was the worse president....

AynRandLives
"The government didn't lie about Tet, which we won, Walter Kronkite declared it a loss. Once the grandfatherly figure of the MSM spoke, it was downhill from there."

The military won TET but the government lost TET BIG time it exposed the lie that there was little opposition and the war was almost over.


"We've done a lot of growing up now, and don't put much stock in the words of the MSM which is so obviously slanted towards the Democratic party. "

Silly rabbit geesh don't you know the Pentagon even used influence to seduce the CNN "military" experts? Read Sunday's NY times

"The ad MoveOn put up against ABC for asking Obama a decent question is delicious irony."

Me too LMAO

"As a Southerner, I did not observe the VAST majority join to change everything, we continued to obey our government."

That would be because the South was not in the vast mkajority

"When the laws were changed, we obeyed them. That was called social order then."

ONLY at the point of a rifle. Don't you remember the military forcing schools opened?

" Now the kids have nothing but contempt for the law and the police. "

Not that I have seen maybe it is mostly your area?

"A return to simple civility would be great. For instance, I take exception to you calling our President dunce-in-chief."

Actually I would not insult dunces, I never called Bush the torturer a dunce

"That displays gross disrespect for the office and the man."

The office deserves respect the man should be in front of the Hague the minute he is out of office.

AynRandLives writes: "The government
didn't lie about Tet, which we won, Walter Kronkite declared it a loss."

Exactly right! But doofus has a such a problem with the truth and facts that he simply represses them...





To Quote
A British politician [with changes to update labels: Anyone who isn't a liberal by age 20 lacks a heart, anyone who isn't a conservative by age 30 lacks a head.

Isaldur
is that why The Doofus's head is full of hot air?

The only thing left is to "humor" doofus

The poor guy is out of his league, so we're probably better of to just respond with..

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, whate-v-e-r!"

or

"Okay doofus, whatever floats your boat!"

or

"Right doofus. Thanks for sharing."





my 2 cents
I was born in 1943. I went to college out of HS. I flunked out after 2 years and went in the Navy in Feb 1964. I spent 3 1/2 years in the service and went back to the same college in 1967. I flunked out AGAIN and got a job in construction but hung around with the same people. Dope and sex were to be found on the left so that's where I gravitated.

40 years removed from that I have to agree with Burt. Of all the people I ran with in those days there are none I keep in touch with - not one, and that is perhaps the most telling fact. There was a reunion of sorts a few years ago and at one point some people started singing 'The Draft-Dodger Rag' and that's when I got up and left.

We sewed some awful seed then and we are reaping the third generation of that seed now and God help us - we brought this on ourselves.

Anne
I controlled my urge to respond to hal! I think RRA is helping!

As for the column, I was born a meager 21 years ago. So I cannot comment on how it felt during the times. From many of the economic policies and beliefs that came out of there...uuftah! There are some good things, but Id have to say the negatives outweigh the positives big time. Its just a wonder our government can even function with the baby boomers running the show lol.

The question is ...
how many useful idiots does it take to change a country. The answer depends on the character of the non-useful idiots. If they are solid in their beliefs and values based on Christian principles the useful idiots will not stand a chance. But if they are weak and have not been properly instructed on Christian beliefs and values then all you really need is one useful idiot, who will attract another, who will attract another ....

Burt, good article. I am glad you weren't a useful idiot.

CKHustler writes: "Its just a wonder our
government can even function with the baby boomers running the show..."

You make an excellent point!

But, there is NO WONDER that our Congress has done "nothing" since the liberals have taken over.



For Anne @ 08:59
which doofus (Hal or wobbie) did you mean?

The 60"s

Super commentary, Burt... 5 stars.

But now, tell us how you really feel.

One thing, though. Please drop the foul language. It is unbecoming. Your writing skills and your insights are more than enough.

Carry on.


Congress
Well, sure the lib congress is crazy horrible, but the reps in there didn't do much better. The Reps in the government aren't all that much worse imo.



Thats the reason the dems think us conservatives are dwindling. We wanted the Reps voted out. We were cleaning house. Now it is time to rebuild. They think they won the election because our conservative belief system is failing. Think again, if we can rebuild the right way I do not see the democrats being able to contend. Rebuilding the right way is the key.

correction
The Reps in the government aren't all that much worse imo.

should read:

The Reps in the government aren't all that much better imo.

Retired Geek
"...You no nothing about HONOR and DUTY. I was an assistant instructor in technical classes when I was a young teen. I knew much about the political process and failures then."

Let me see I served in the military and as a policeman and actually put my body where my mouth was but I know nothing about HONOR or DUTY???

"I was drafted and did my DUTY, not because I didn't understand the political situation but because of my DUTY to my family and my neighbors."

But a question for you, when does the good and the correct outweigh DUTY? Please answer that do you believe that US policy should be to use torture?

"This is something that you fail to grasp. We vote out politically those whom disagree with and do our DUTY the rest of the time."

Tell me more about this? I assumed all that you did was follow the line

"..What would that prove - that you are not smarter than an old conservative. "

LMAO hey I am your average guy. Sorry, look in the mirror if you want something else I would guess

svpallava writes: "which doofus (Hal or

wobbie) did you mean?"

Good question....
In this case I was referring to halD....

But, it's applicable to both, so maybe we should use the same responses to both...


CKHustler: You're right..

We have too many RINOs

CKHustler
"Congress
Well, sure the lib congress is crazy horrible, but the reps in there didn't do much better. The Reps in the government aren't all that much worse imo."

The House does reflect the will of the period

"Thats the reason the dems think us conservatives are dwindling. We wanted the Reps voted out. We were cleaning house. Now it is time to rebuild. "

LMAO please keep believing that....please...

"hey think they won the election because our conservative belief system is failing. "

No! Not failing - totally discredited, totally

"Think again, if we can rebuild the right way I do not see the democrats being able to contend. Rebuilding the right way is the key. "

Look you couldn't even "build the right way" when you had power - it is over now maybe more rational conservatives can take over

Anne/CKHustler
"..We have too many RINOs"

RINOs ARE the Republican Party you conservatives just stole it. I hope they can recover we do not need a single party country

RE: one of the wise comments to VITO:
"Actually, Vito, we're harboring a deep resentment that our stable, virtuous, and properly-raised kids have to share the culture with the vicious, virtueless, promiscuous, irresponsible, intellectually empty, nihilistic s**ts that mindless idiots like you have raised -- and they'll suffer right along with them as you and your kids continue to demolish Western civilization.

Yeah, we're kinda resentful about that."

TOTALLY WITH YOU!!!! KUDOS ...and Burt, as one born in 1945, I share your sentiments completely; I DID wear miniskirts, though, I confess....BUT that was my worst fault back then....My whole crowd were people of character and faith, and lacked any interest in any of the nonsense the MSM likes to EMPHASIZE when talking about "The Sixties".
By the way, having graduated from college in '68, it is completely obvious to me in retrospect that it was the LATE 60's AND THE 70's that were the real problem. I've often said that we who graduated in 1968 just barely "escaped" the craziness coming right behind us like a tidal wave (that we could almost "see" looking back over our shoulders!!!)
The early 60's were much like the 50's in my life - and great years at that.

Does anyone else?
Have reason to believe they(hal and wobbie) are the same person? I mean I am hard pressed to find a thread they don't post together in. I also recall that one time someone pointed out hal signed off as robert. hmph...

HalD
HalD wrote: "But a question for you, when does the good and the correct outweigh DUTY? Please answer that do you believe that US policy should be to use torture?"
-------------------------------------------------

War is hell. Torture that does mot result in death to save lives is all right with me.

You have stated that Hillary could use torture if she was absolutely sure it would save lives.

My question to you: When could any human be absolutely certain?


Chuckles writes: "Ah the stories of
flight school..."

Yeah, I bet! Especially the flight school Chuckles attended... "Fantasy Flight School."

What's so great about Chuckles' "Fantasy Flight School" is that it's his own personal fantasy and adventure every day.

And, he can be first in his class... every day.

And, Chuckles can make up whatever stories he wants in his "Fantasy Flight School."

Who wants to bet that before too long, Chuckles will be telling us how he helped train the prince!



Oh and, wonder if Chuckles will ignore this post of mine.. He certainly didn't ignore me on Conners' thread when he thought no one would see.

Howdy Burt...
A quick cup of coffee and a good read for a busy Monday. I remember 1965, I was sixteen and out here in flyover country we only had glimpses of the war and the hippies from good ol' Walter on the evening news.

I remember my Mom telling me something she thought I ought to do, don't remember what that was but I do remember telling her that I marched to the beat of a different drummer. She said that would be just fine and dandy but that if my drummer didn't keep time to her tune I would need to find a better drummer or find another place to hang my hat and she was even a Democrat.

Turns out Mom and I do march to the beat of different drummers. She became a child of the sixties by osmosis and I eloped, married my high school sweetheart and grew up. In other words I became a Republican. After 41 years being married to that same HS sweetheart and raising two children I am still grateful for the advise my Mom gave me that day back in 1965 before she went completely off course as a far left winger and that I wasn't still at home for the brain washing.

Now off to a busy day and I must still find time for some bitterness and maybe a little pity party during "Happy Hour".

Good day Burt, see ya on Friday!


Burt, Burt, Burt....
Great article. You did overlook one real important fact, though. It is, for sure, the most important point of all!!! The sixties "idiots", as you refer to them, threw out, or rather, "killed" GOD. And, by your own admittance, you joined them as a non-believer in the only True GOD!! that would be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So, don't be too hard on their nuttiness as you have three fingers pointing back at "Big" Burt.

I invite you to "come on back home", Burt, to the God of our fathers!
The greatest sin of the sixties, as is today, is the sin of PRIDE (false pride). HE is waiting for you, Burt, with open ARMS! Come on home!!!!!

SERVIAM!


Anne
I recently learned from sources unnamed that the Laird of Scranton Manor has a new title. He is now to be called Sir Halbert Doofus-Styne

Anne
Chuckles is the prince (In his own mind)

Hal Donahue
Ah Hal, I'm so impressed by your service. I'm sure you also received the Congressional Medal of Honor, posthumously of course and you were proabably wounded fatally at least three times while singlehandedly wiping out the Mafia, right?

Anne
Did you know that a Demo Precinct worker
called Sir Halbert Doofus-Styne, Laird of Scranton Manor? "Sire when Senator Clinton loses her bid for the nomination, are we going to support Senator Obama? And what happens when we get to Denver without a candidate?" The Laird says "Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. We always have Senator Jon Cary and AlGore waiting in the wings. I'm more concerned about the protests. There's a bunch of old hippies and Woodstock generation progeny calling themselves Recreate 68 who are going to attack the police when they try to control the situation. I'm an honorary super delegate and I'm going to wear my bullet proof vest that Ollie North gave me when we were still friends. I'm still confident of a Demo sweep."

Hepp me Jon Cary I r sceered

Retired Geek/Robert
"War is hell. Torture that does mot result in death to save lives is all right with me. "

Ooops too late we admit over 30 individuals already died undergoing stressed interrogations

"You have stated that Hillary could use torture if she was absolutely sure it would save lives.

My question to you: When could any human be absolutely certain?"

That is Hillary's answer. Goes along the same lines as Jesus' statement let he without sin cast the first stone. i.e. never happen

Robert loved the "Congratulations...
Retired Geek writes: Monday, April, 21, 2008 10:04 AM " Spot on target and they accuse me of "moral relativism" LMAO

Hil here must run later