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Monday, January 08, 2007
Burt Prelutsky :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's black and white
by Burt Prelutsky
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Recently, I was being interviewed on radio by a black woman. We were discussing my new book and were getting along just fine until she decided to attack me for suggesting that most of the racists in America are black.

She refuted my conclusion, arguing that even the brouhaha a few years back over Janet Jackson’s bared breast proved that white America was a racist society.

I couldn’t believe my ears. I asked her if she’d been unaware of the stink raised over Britney Spears smooching with Madonna. And that display took place on a music awards show that had nothing near the audience that the Super Bowl commanded.

Sometimes, it’s easy to get the idea that many black Americans are unaware that there are nearly 300 million of us who, without being black, garner our share of grief and misery. It goes with being human beings, and has nothing to do with pigmentation.

Even the high and mighty aren’t above the fray. Go back a few decades and you have the spectacle of Richard Nixon’s having to resign from the highest office in the land. Or consider V.P. Dan Quayle, who suffered far more public humiliation than Ms. Jackson simply because, one, he forgot how to spell “potatoes,” and, two, he voiced a legitimate concern that TV’s Murphy Brown was setting a bad example for America’s youth by having a child out of wedlock.

People ridiculed Quayle by pointing out that Ms. Brown was a fictional character. But, then, who ever claimed a fictional character couldn’t influence the highly impressionable? Look at Huck Finn and Scarlett O’Hara, the Three Musketeers, Rocky Balboa, Superman, and Hillary Clinton.

When Al Campanis and Trent Lott misspoke on the subject of blacks, they were immediately banished to Lower Slobovia. However, lambasting whites is a surefire path to success for many upwardly mobile black Americans.

Let Pat Robertson dare run for the presidency and the liberal media castigates him for blurring the division between church and state. But nary a discouraging word is voiced when reverends Jackson and Sharpton toss their hats in the ring. And while we’re on the subject, do those two palookas ever bother attending church, let alone ever actually function as ministers?

When I suggested to the radio hostess that the biggest problems for blacks in this country were self-inflicted, and that whites were not responsible for a 70% illegitimacy rate, for turf wars over drugs, and for the alarming drop-out rate among high school and college students, she said I simply wouldn’t understand -- that it was a black thing!

The fact is, most blacks who are raped, robbed and murdered, are the victims, not of white bigots or white cops, but of black thugs.

But some people find it easier to play the race card, to pretend every time black celebrities are arrested, it’s because rotten white society is out to get them. Funny how that works, though. The same society that arrested O.J. Simpson had first given him a college education and then handed him millions of dollars to play football, make movies, and run through airports in TV commercials.

The very same society that arrested Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson and Kobe Bryant, first made them kazillionaires.

It’s the same society that has made icons of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan, Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Tiger Woods, Quincy Jones, Alice Walker, Beyonce Knowles, Toni Morrison, Barry Bonds, Shaquille O’Neal, Colin Powell, Will Smith, Condoleezza Rice and, most recently, Barack Obama.

If this were a racist society, believe me, we would not know any of those names. Those people would be working in the fields or doing time in the gulags or they’d be dead. That’s the way it works in racist societies.

I do not happen to believe that most white Americans in 2007 are bigots. I think, by and large, we judge blacks exactly the way that Dr. King suggested -- by their character and their intelligence and their ability. It’s the same way we judge each other.

However, we don’t have a lot of sympathy for those who claim to be victims of racial oppression. We can’t stomach those who wallow in self-pity, demanding everything from reparations to college degrees as birthrights.

We have no patience with those who blame their lack of ambition in school or the work place on people they don’t even know. And we certainly have no use for the creeps who spawn all those millions of children, condemning them to be raised in fatherless homes, simultaneously condemning the rest of us to live with the violent, illiterate thugs so many of them will inevitably grow up to be. And who then, for good measure, blame white society when these punks eventually wind up in jail.

Needless to say, the lady on the radio took strong exception to my words.

I simply couldn’t get through to her. It must be a white thing.

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About The Author
W. Burt Prelutsky is an accomplished, well-rounded writer and author of "The Secret of Their Success: Interviews with Legends and Luminaries."
 
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Did you ask..
..if she read your book?

Did you ask her if she got her job because she is black?

Did you sign a copy of your book for her?

This guy is scewed
He just referred to American blacks as "them" and whites as "we". It's one thing when someone talks about what "we" must do in the "black community" to keep our eyes on the prize (Whether it's the "We shall overcome" blustering of the "klan with a tan" or the "I got mine" of the thugs with golden grills) but it's another thing altogether when white folks be tellin' us we best be gettin' to actin' responsible and maybe even learn a thing or two about the english language.(Oops,I threw that last one in there myself.)I guess the mask is off now.Everyone knows I'm not an angry black,but a happy conservative.

Pop quiz: Between a white man and a black woman who are both strongly anti-crime,which one is the racist.

Did I read that correctly?
Did a black woman actually admit that high rates of crime, high rates of illegitmacy and poor education were black things? Burt should have asked her if she thought those "black things" were good for the black community or any community for that matter.

Lannie Guiniere
Remember her? President Clinton's would-be appointee who said that Black people should receive a number of votes by the PERCENTAGE of them in a district (provided it was more than the percentage of Whites of course)? She instructed us, among other things, that only White people could be racists because you had to have "Da POWUH" in order to be a racist, and Black folks NEVER have "Da POWUH" so they can't, ipso facto, be racist. Can you just imagine a Black President standing up on television and squalling that the Congress won't give him everything he wants BECAUSE HE'S BLACK? (Wouldn't that be, like, a DICTATOR?) Can't you imagine him suddenly under pressure blurting out to the Prime Minister of Canada "YOU A RACIST!" when that White man disagrees with him on something?

Having lived in Atlanta for 17 years, I certainly can. After looking out a sufficiently high-up window at a Martin Luther King Day parade (no Whites wanted down on street level), and taking in the number of "By any means necessary" and "It's a Black Thing -- You Wouldn't Understand" t-shirts, I most certainly can.

However, I believe it is something that will continue until everyone born before 1964 is dead, and possibly another 20 years after that. People who have been coddled and bowed to and excused because of their skin colour are not going to give up the Goodies simply because the disease is over. Like an athlete on Percocet, the addiction longers on.

A Black Thing?
Shawn: I read it to mean that Burt wouldn't/couldn't "understand" the cause & effects of such woeful behavior because he's not black.

Isn't it amazing that we human beings have found many avenues to express our feelings in such a way as to allow others to imagine what it is like to "walk in our shoes", to genuinely empathize in our perceived plights, except in matters of "black & white"?

Perhaps the only thing that will ever end this is the passage of time. I am old enough to remember the reaction to mixed couples in public places not all that long ago... the stares and the whispers. Now, it barely even registers in our consciousness. That is a lot of progress in a relatively short period of time.

It seems to me there used to be a lot more Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons out there preaching victimhood. And I'm not seeing a lot of younger versions being groomed as their replacements. Perhaps such a "career" is going the way of the horse & buggy.

We can only hope.

my 2 cents
People like al and jesse and julian play the race card because it's the only one they have, they've been playing it for years and that's all they're good at. With Bond it's more disappointing because he is a man of intelligence, but with jj and especially sharpton, that really seems to be the only thing they have going for them. sharpton is such a joke that even the dems can't take him seriously.

(Quickie quiz - what are his qualifications besides the color of his skin?)

But gradually, bit by bit, their audience is shrinking.

AudiR10
Unfortunately, I think you're wrong on one point. You say that this division will continue until everyone born before 1964 is dead 20 years. I doubt that very seriously. The problem is that many people (Like Drs. Sowell and Cosby) who were born before 1964 remember what it was like under segregation and see the progress the black community has made over the last 40 years. They seem to be the ones with the most sense. Unfortunately, people don't like to listen to "you have to take responsibility for yourself" and so many in the black community listen to the Jesse Jacksons, Sharptons, and Farakhans (sp?) in the world: "You live in the Ghetto and your kids are gangsters. It's not your fault, it's white racism that put you there." It's only going to get worse as the people with sense and an understanding of history die off.

And...
Don't forget the "brother/sisterhood.What is that?
When black people can say rotten things to each other and get away with it. A white person who does this with a black friend gets the business. Because you aren't allowed to call them on anything unless they are the ones taking responsibility for their actions and not blaming others for their predicaments.
Example:
black friend:(serious) Look, ni**er, I'm fed up with you busitn' me.
black friend #2: Hey man, you just need to get your black a** a job,start doin' something.

Now the other version.
White friend: (Kiddingly)Hey, Think about what "brown" can do for you! There's alot of jobs to be had.
Black friend: What you sayin' man? I thought you were my friend. Go on with your white self, who needs you?

I grew up around a lot of black people and I saw this kind of stuff with my own eyes,ears.
It's the same old crap. Whites make fun of each other with other ethnic groups and we all laugh...It's never a racial thing as far as I am concerned...I have often used humor when I am unsure of what to say, and I have never been accused of being a racist. I just think it is ridiculous for that card to be played over and over...but the "reverends" will keep on pushing that as long as there is reaction.

PS- I have just been censored...Ni**er, black a**
Because I actually did not have the asterisks...Political correctness is going to kill this Country.

Wow!
Say it again, Brother Prelutsky.

I wasn't a racist before moving to Durham, NC, 18 years ago, but I sure am now. However, when a nationally read editorial (like the one above) makes it into a non-KKK web site and gets rated 5 stars, maybe there is hope. Maybe things are changing.

I'm sure it isn't going to be soon. And, unfortunately, Durham will probably be one of the last areas to change, but the change will come. Or, there won't be any blacks left. They'll kill each other or be locked up.

When a black child is born they're not inherently bad (unless the mother was on crack, etc). It's the first 10 or 15 years of lack of attention, excuses, drugs, gangs, and other influences that make that child into what he/she becomes.

Until the black community drops the "black thing" crap and starts understanding it's a human thing they won't get it. And, things won't get better. But, that means the black leaders (Jesse, et al) need to be willing to give up the power for the greater good. And, I don't believe, that is going to happen anytime soon.

I am a Southerner by birth and
I saw this first hand. Now I live in the North and things are not very different up here. Burt said it very well here. Whites like me better not be racist and by dang, we better not accuse blacks of being racist either, even when their actions scream that they are.
I also know that this is an argument that we will never win!
Burt was definitely right on target with this article. Great Job Burt!

It's black and white...
My West Virginia grandmother used to say, "give them an inch, they'll take a mile.." Let's ignore the fact that when the Irish came to America, they were horribly discriminated against. Same with the Jew, the Italians..even those nasty DPs (Displaced Persons) after World War Two.
Let's remember that it was white soldiers who fought the Civil War to free the slaves, that it was a white president who pushed the Civil Rights bill through the Congress.
Sure there is racism in America today..you may even find some white folks perpetrating it...

ok
So what was the point? Sure, some race problems remain; but truly great strides have been taken. Certainly, most problems in the black community now lie in the hands of the blacks themselves. So once again: What was the point? I get the impression that it was to reassure folks that they were right all along. Great! Now what about the problem? We are all in the same boat together. It does no good to say that the leak in on their side of the boat. Let them fix it. If the leak is not plugged and the bilges pumped out, we may very well sink when the next storm hits. In that event, I guess you folks can huddle up with Prelutsky and say how right you were until the water gets higher than your heads.

It's a cultural issue..
A black thing equates to the culture of tribalism which my conservative hammite acquaintences abhor as it's greatest vicitms are those of the hammite race.

Prelutsky Article
Prelutsky is right on track. I stopped buying in to that white racism stuff years ago. Blacks are very exclusive and I agree that their "It's a black thing...you wouldn't understand" tee shirts reflect the real feelings. Actually, it's true. I don't understand much of what they do and never will understand lack of responsibility and feelings of entitlement because I have no desire to live that way. I have always taken care of my own needs and those of my family. I will worry about the 'N' word when I don't hear blacks calling whites 'crackers', among other names, in a disparaging tone. Then we have the Congressional Black Caucus giving "Rep." William Jefferson a standing ovation upon his return to the House...PLEASE! Would they be giving a white representative that ovation if he had $90,000.00 in marked payoff money hidden in his freezer? Absolutely NOT. They would be screaming for his ouster (but only if he was a Republican). This is all just too obvious. Thankfully, the Sowells and Steels of the world "get it", which is why their fellow blacks can't stand them. They promote much too much self responsibility. As to the write from North Carolina, I didn't felt these things for years either, but my views have changed, based on the information I have been presented with over time. I call it like I see it.

Mike R -- yes and no
Yeah, we're in the same boat. But from where I sit, in some respects (and ONLY in SOME respects) every time some of us (of any given race) try to plug the leak others promptly unplug it and blame the water on us - the white us for being racist, the black us for being oreos.

My daughter has a friend who went out and got herself pregnant right out of high school -- without going through the recommended "getting a husband first" step. I know this young woman. She's smart, charming, amusing --- and doomed!

We were taking together about what it is to be a parent and how my hope was that my daughter would be smarter, wiser, healthier, happier, and better off in every way than I. This young woman said, "I don't want my baby to be better than me!" Of course, that attitude is almost all it takes to make sure that her child is NOT better off than she.

Yeah, she's only one example -- well, actually her whole family is an example of dysfunction -- but I'm tempted to rest my case here.

So how do we keep the boat from sinking if some of our fellow passengers are punching holes in the bottom?

Amen, amen,
and amen. Not only is the term bigoted misused, so is the term "minority". I once heerd a black lady on tv explaining away poor learning in her school by the statement, "you have to realize the majority of the students are minority students". I may not be a mathmetician but it doesn't seem possible to have the majority be in the minority.
They need to realize that each individual is the only one that can pull himself or herself up out of the problems.

Burt Do the math
This guys tirades are becoming even more unintelligible. He seems to be insinuating that there are more black racists than white racists. With out going into complex arguments about what racism is this is just wrong on its face. There are more white racists because there are more white people. Blacks make up only 10% of the population of the entire country. Even if you believe that 90% of white people are not racists every single black person in America would have to be a racist just to make the numbers even.

MikeR
Great point, but we all know it is the same boat. The problem is that we can not fix the hole in their side of the boat. All we can do is make sure ours stays fixed and work with them to fix theirs until OUR boat is fixed. That is what this whole article is about... talking openly about the problem and pushing forward to fix it. The problem is nobody can agree on how to fix the boat.

@Burt, great article as always. You are now one of my must reads.

Good ole Burt,
stomped all over the conventional wisdom of black folks, taboos, really, that white folks are not supposed to ever, ever, express in public. Blacks can call one another n***er all day long, but let a white do it and if he's a public figure, he won't be for long. Poor Trent Lott couldn't make a harmless joke without being castrated by the NAACP, and Jesse Jackson's of this world.

Timely column, Burt, keep up the good work.

refuted?
"She refuted my conclusion, arguing that ..."

You means, surely, that she repudiated the conclusion, but could not refute it, arguing that ...

Burt, you have now
learned a lesson. Don't debate, discuss, or even attempt to talk to anyone of color about race. Whites should have learned long ago, keep out of racial discussions at all costs. A White will never, ever win, because they always have the "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" as a final cop-out.

As far as this whole thing disappearing after the death of everyone born before 1964. Well, that's not gonna happen either. The people born after '64 up to and including today are still screaming racism. Maybe the Mexican takeover of our society will fix things. Ya think?

Jeff
Only 10% are black? I think that number is way too low. And to say 90% white is way way to high. BTW what is white? British? How about Germans? Holland? Spain? Italy? Russia? Poland? Irish?

But to your original claim I am going to disagree. I would say that 60% + of blacks are bigots in some way... some more than others. I grew up in a city with more blacks than whites... and from personal experience I can tell you that blacks are by far the most racists "group" of people I have ever met. There are a lot of good black people out there who are not racist at all and fight against it, but they are few and far between.

I know 2 types of white racists. The first is the least common. This is the person who thinks blacks are inferior and yadda yaddda. That type of person is so rare, I can count all the people like that I have met on 1 hand. The other type of "racist" white person is somebody who has been beat down by the black community. A victim of black hate and racism that has turned them to hate in return... not out of race but out of reaction. That type of person is common. In fact MOST whites I know have been a victim of black racism on a regular occurance. It jades them against blacks as a group which makes them keep any blacks they get to know at arms length until they get to know them.

THe problem will continue until some real leaders stand up and get the black community back on the path to the American Dream.

Soon, there won't be any more of this
Black - White infighting.

I'm seeing it less and less every day.

A common enemy unites two feuding off-spring every time.

It's the only good thing that MAY come from the Second Mexican War. And the War (on/agaist) Terror. Black + White are BOTH affected by these things to the SAME degree. We are ALL Brothers in America!

jcdean1978
Great post.

Made me think of Jesse "The Sperminator" Jackson and Al "Twanda Brawley" Sharpton.

Two of America's best race warlords.

BTW, I think that the mothership has already taken Nation of Islam honcho Farrakhan away.

It was once said,
"There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs - partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do do not want to lose their jobs." - Booker T. Washington

The death of MLK
Primus54 writes:

"It seems to me there used to be a lot more Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons out there preaching victimhood."

Like Primus I too am old enough to remember when a mixed couple was a taboo. But my recollection of black leaders in the '60's is somewhat different. I remember guys like Malcolm X and H. Rap Brown (Black Power). And I also remember guys like Medgar Evers who took a more intellectual approach. And they were all very different than Jackson and Sharpton. They were about empowering blacks, not portraying them as victims.

Mostly I remember Dr. Martin Luther King. He was the one guy who had it all, and had it all right. He was a man of courage and a man of peace. He was the one guy that all decent whites and blacks respected. If you read the text of his "I have a dream" speech you will not find the basis for the "victimhood" approach to race relations practiced by Jackson, Sharpton, and other race hustlers today.

The men who killed King got what they wanted. They got racial dividers like Sharpton and Jackson. They got a separate black culture that denigrates women and exhorts violence (rap music) and disrespects the law.

In "Brown vs the Board of Education" the Supreme Court ruled that "separate but equal" schools are "inherently inequal." Today we have black interviewers in essence telling guys like Perlutzky that blacks now want to be "separate" and "equal". It doesn't work both ways.

King understood that if black people wanted what white people had they had to do what white people did to get it. King only wanted to be allowed to do what white people were doing.

After King's death the new black "leadership" (Jackson usurped the "power" from Ralph Abernathy, proclaiming "I don't pay any attention to that n*gg*r") embarked on a new direction. They would retain their black identity but still insist on equality. On the surface, no problem. But when the black "identity" evolved into a culture of purposeful disrespect for all things white the opportunity to have what white people have evaporated with it.

It has been almost 40 years since King was murdered. Today the American black "identity" all too often includes and even encourages single motherhood, disrespect for women, exhultation of violence, and a general discouraging of black youths from doing well in school; resistance to being "too white". And with it all a chip on the shoulder from a self promoted image of victimhood.

If you want what whitey's got you have to do what whitey does to get it: finish school, get a job, get married before having kids, respect yourself, your family, and your friends, and obey the law. Take responsibility for your own well-being and your own happiness. No one else is going to do it for you.

Black Racism
Burt,

I think you are so "right on" that I fear for your safety in writing what many whites think now.

I am old enough to remember how disadvantaged blacks were in our society before the Civil Rights movement and I certainly sympathized with the goals of the movement (to the chagrin of some of my older family members and neighbors).

I welcomed and celebrated evidence of blacks moving into the mainstream.

Now, I too deplore the sense of entitlement that too many blacks display -- as though they deserved compensation on all fronts for the sufferings of distant ancestors. They would rather whine about racism than study, work, and advance. Do they think the whites just get good jobs because of their skin color? Not likely after four decades of affirmative action. If anyone should complain, it's white males who have been denigrated for their gender and race for decades. Asians have been discrimated openly in college admissions because of their competence. That's a recipe for societal failure.

I'm still waiting for the color-blind society of which Martin Luther King spoke so eloquently.

I think Thomas Sowell should be the Republican nominee for President in 2008 -- he is a man I admire profoundly for his wisdom and insight that applies to all races.




It's a Black Thing?

.....Burt...

.....obviously you cannot understand because you are not black ...just like I cannot understand abortion because I am not a woman ...

.....Conservatives are willing to work with blacks as equals but 75% of blacks prefer to embrace victimhood ...read Star Parker's books for verification ...

.....Liberals are perfectly willing to accept blacks as victims ...that way they can tie up their votes and dispense a few crumbs to keep them in their "place" ...

.....When I was in the Army I spent almost a year in a quonset hut with 19 blacks and one other white ...after awhile I became "invisible" to my black comrades and they spoke freely in front of me ...what I learned was this ...
1. Most black have a great sense of humor and like to play the "dozens" ...
2. Most blacks hate and distrust most whites ...
3. Blacks will unite to defend a "brother" against the "man" ...

.....these are empirical facts from an objective observer ...most blacks are far more racist than most whites .....COLOSSUS

Whiteophobia
The Black/White race divide has never been greater. TV's pandering to Sharpton, Rangle and Jackson is near inciting to riot against Whites.
The momentum is building within the Democrat party as the Black Caucus is just this side of total corruption as they applaud the Freezer Bandit and the impeached judge and ethically corrupt Conyers and Rangle. All they need now is the return of the diva Cynthia McKinney.

Mind your P's and Q's
Sharpton and Jackson are just selling socialism, dressed up in a Dashiki. For all of their talk about race and repayment, when you look at the results they want, and in some cases have already achieved, it is, at its core, simply socialism.

I'm not racist. But I do consider myself pragmatically prejudiced.

I am a thirty-something white man. I have worked with lots of African-Americans, and six or seven African immigrants. The immigrants will flat-out impress you, as their manners, integrity, speech, and work ethic put most white Americans to shame. The college-educated African Americans I know seem somewhat hesitant about bridging the gap. They hang together, and they are bilingual. They’ll speak proper English with whites, and revert to slang with their clique. However, I don’t see any deficiencies in these people that I can’t find in whites or Asians of similar age or experience level. The young will be youthful. Middle managers will be indecisive. It’s universal. I don’t know what my black friends experience when they attend family reunions, or go downtown. I wonder if they are accused of selling out, or admired for succeeding in business. They get a fair shake with my employer, and I say that represents progress.

When I am at work, I am quite at ease with the various races represented. When I go in to the inner city, the blacks I meet are more often than not con men or hate-filled gang bangers. I am by no means in the wrong to employ survival stratagem in this environment: Avoidance of eye contact, or even proximity if possible. A handful of food certificates in my pocket for the pitiable. Planning my next three moves, and always keeping in mind the escape path. Do my practices constitute prejudice? I believe that they do. But it isn’t unethical – just unpalatable. My experience is that when a complete stranger initiates a conversation on the street with me, perhaps one in twenty blacks want directions. The rest want money, overtly or conned, or even forcibly. The ratio is about one out of three for whites, wanting directions versus wanting cash. Once you get into a place of business, the blacks employed in customer service don’t seem to give trouble. Keyword = “Employed.”

Folks get killed. My police friends tell me that they do NOT actually have a duty to protect the public, much less individual citizens. What a world the socialists have wrought.

Wow
Prelutsky starts with the completely unsupportable "fact" that:

"most of the racists in America are black."

As Jefff pointed out this is mathematically unlikely since Blacks make up a much smaller segment of the country than whites. Less Black people, less Black racists, duh!

If you want to talk about a larger proportion of Blacks being racist, I would ask how you came to such a conclusion? Do you have, like, a STUDY or some DATA or anything other than your learned opinion to back up that contention? No? Didn't think so.

I find it amusing that this dearth of factual basis for your conclusion appears on the same day that a TH article by Jacoby tries to stress how liberals make policy based on emotion and not fact while conservatives base policy on facts. Hilarious!

Those like Prelutsky make arguments that "Blacks are more racist" or that "racism is over" to assuage white's guilt over any racist tendencies they still carry. So, when a white person chooses not to hire a Black person because they don't feel "comfortable" with Blacks, or a white person cluthces their purse and crosses the street; or a white person is rude to a Black; it's easy to turn back to a Prelutsky-type argument and say, "well, even though I was rude to that Black person, it's not really racist because racism is over" or "even though I didn't hire that Black person, it's o.k. because Blacks are the REAL racists and they would do the same thing!"

There are too many studies on the issue of racism to simply conclude that racism is no longer a problem.(studies regarding "black sounding names" vs white names on interviews; death penalty for blacks vs. whites; crack vs powder cocaine sentencing; home and business loan disparity; healthcare disparities)

Finally, I would ask those who think that Blacks are more racist than whites to apply that "logic" to some other similar situations:

Do you think that Jews are now more anti-semitic than Nazis?

Do you think that women are now more likely to commit sexual offenses against men than the reverse?

Do you think that native americans, latinos, or asians are now more racist than whites?

and again, do you have ANY evidence other than your "experience" that indicates that Blacks are more racist than whites?

think people.

wiseone
You are indeed wise.

And to think Jesse Jackson was once Dr. King's protege'! You would think that the proximity to such greatest would have rubbed off on him!

Just goes to show how rare is true greatness.

Tubbs
Wow!

This is what happens when people get so tangled up in the details they miss the broader point.

I think you KNOW Prelutsky doesn't mean "majority" as in whole numbers.

You make reference to many studies concerning rascism. Perhaps you should provide some links to enlighten the rest of us.

Tubbs -- Racists
Tubbs, your bias shows.

quoth tubbs: "Do you think that Jews are now more anti-semitic than Nazis?"

The term "anti-semitic" means essentially "against Jews".

You are using it in a context as if "racist" means "against Blacks", which is clearly incorrect.

Perhaps this was a very simple mistake -- or perhaps it illuminates a fundamental misunderstanding about the terminology. We've had "racism" drummed into our heads for so long, almost always white-against-black racism, until people actually believe that it's impossible to have black-against-white racism.

If a white person commits a crime against a black person, it's a "Hate Crime". Blacks *do* commit crimes agasinst whites -- but name me ONE instance of it being called a "Hate Crime."

quoth Tubbs: "do you have ANY evidence other than your "experience" that indicates that Blacks are more racist than whites?"

Pick up the book, "The Ten Things You Can't Say in America" by Larry Elder. Guess what Number One is.


"Them" and "We" - ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
"Them" is the third person plural pronoun. How else are you to describe blacks in short form if you're white? Are pronouns the new n-word?

To point out how ridiculous this is, the same point should apply to calling a black man "he", if it's racist to call more than one black man "them". Is "he" verbotten as well?

"Kill Whitey!!!"
Remember: "Kill Whitey"? To publish the reverse is impossible...
Plenty of "Black Power", "African Power", etc. - but a guy was prevented from getting copyrights for "White Power".
Yes, rasism!!!
And pay the reparations!!! - to European countries, wrom which blond girls were "bestsellers" by Africans.
Sad, very sad.

Hey Jeff
You said:
This guys tirades are becoming even more unintelligible. He seems to be insinuating that there are more black racists than white racists. With out going into complex arguments about what racism is this is just wrong on its face. There are more white racists because there are more white people. Blacks make up only 10% of the population of the entire country. Even if you believe that 90% of white people are not racists every single black person in America would have to be a racist just to make the numbers even."
You confuse percentage with real numbers, but someone made that point already. The rest of us have empirical observations, also known as personal experiences, that black people are far more racist than white people. The fact that they display their racism against white people, and then dare to complain about racism directed towards them infuriates me. I HATE HYPOCRITES. I find most blacks are hypocrites are the subject of race. So, what does that make me?

Mr Ed
"I have worked with lots of African-Americans, and six or seven African immigrants. The immigrants will flat-out impress you, as their manners, integrity, speech, and work ethic put most white Americans to shame." Amen to that! It is soooooo true and I have met some wonderful people from Africa!

@ Tubbs
Sorry man but you are wrong wrong dead wrong. I see you like the idea of being a victim but that is lame. Your comparisons of other groups as you have labled them does not work simply because they do not scream racism and look for handouts nor do they play the victim. The Jews of ALL people have been through hell. But you don't see them constantly attacking Germans or even the Muslims who activly seek their death! No, instead these people work hard, achieve based on the merit of their actions, and contribute to the world. The the majority of the black community does NONE of that.

I will give you that off the top of my head I have no "facts" but neither do you. Your polls are done by people with an agenda. People who are looking to reach a certain goal to advance their facts. And as I stated above, the victomized whites, asians, and others by black hate have become Jaded and thus keep most blacks at arms length until they get to know them. Our facts are as good as yours.

If you really cared about the black community then you would help to uplift them. Stop playing the vicitm, calling them vitims, and belitting their abilities! Listen to those who fought so hard and died to uplift the community back in the 1960's at the height of this fight. Promote family values, respect, hard work, education, economics, responsibility, indiviualism, and uplifting ones self.


baseballdoc
Colossus isn't even human; how can it be black, white, or racist?

Paul
Friggin near pizzed my pants laughing!

FREEZER BANDIT!

Awesome.

baseballdoc
…..you can understand something like ‘being black’ only up to a point. Just like abortion, you can only have an intellectual understanding of being pregnant simply because you cannot experience it. That doesn’t invalidate your opinion, but it should give you pause to consider that your understanding might be incomplete….

…….Aside from how conservative = good and liberal = bad, I’d hazard to say that few people like to treat others as truly equals and victim hood is expressed constantly on TH by both contributors and commenter…….

……..Yes what you learned in the army is common experience for most white guys who find themselves in the minority. A much more important lesson then the 3 you listed is why such things are true. It’s a pity you couldn’t enlighten us with your Colossus view………

……..Other than that, you listed no empirical facts…….You are not an objective observer……… And I’ve yet to see any evidence that most blacks are any more racist than whites………SHAZAMUS……

Many blacks ARE racist
For example - and to prove the most extreme example - many of them promote the rule that only black people can say the n-word, but white people and other races cannot. This is a racist rule on its face.

what she ment to say.
I am a black man in 2007. I've from one of the most racist cities in America which is Cincinnatti, OH. I don't believe that she ment to say that all white people are racist. I don't believe that. However I do believe that you turn a def ear to your racist friends when you are in a public situation. It wasn't so much about the uproar about Janet and the Superbowl. What is was about was how she was raked across the hot coals while white america coddled justin Timberfake. He is the one who exposed her breast to the world, she didn't. He didn't face any heat and like typical White behavior, he got selective amnesia. Why was she attacked and he wasn't? It's because he is white. The sad part is that white america embraces(Steals) all of our style. You guys still our music, our dress style, our unique hipness. Everybody who is hot in music that is white is being produced by someone black. You can't have it both ways. Elvis was a joke and the Beatles, what a crock of Shi-! All thier talent if you want to call it that was stolen from a black man. So if you don't like us thats cool, were not that fond of you and your fake ways either.

Randy
"I find most blacks are hypocrites are the subject of race. So, what does that make me?"

Aware.

Storm
GOOD question about Timberlake. I think it's because Timberlake didn't expose himself, and Jackson never filed assault and battery charges against him, implying the contact was her idea.

Storm
That is weak man. If it had been a white woman the reaction would have been the same. The focus was on the breast and not the guy who did it... and I agree that there should have been a lot more focus on him for his actions.

Its also weak to say whites are racist and hate blacks and then say we copy black culture and people and look up to them as role models.

Seems to be a matter of different perspectives I guess.

South Park Wisdom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5FEYmPHjMc

Cartman: One, please.

Ticket Guy: That'll be six dollars.

Cartman: Okay, and how much is that in pubes?

Ticket Guy: We don't take pubes.

Cartman: Listen, my money is as good as anybody's. Don't you, uh, discriminate against my people by not accepting these pubes!

Ticket Guy: We don't take pubes, end of story!

Cartman: RACIST!

oy
Primus54:

Study suggests bias against 'black' names on resumes
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146

'Black' features can sway in favor of death penalty, according to study
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/may3/deathworthy-050306.html

ACLU Urges End to Discriminatory Crack vs. Powder Cocaine Sentencing Disparity, Restore Rationality to Sentencing Policy
http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/sentencing/10657prs20020522.html

U.S. Data Reveal Loan Rate Disparity
http://www.refuseandresist.org/detentions/art.php?aid=2190

Race Gap Persists In Health Care, Three Studies Say
Blacks Get Fewer Tests, Less Therapy and Medicine
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/17/AR2005081701437.html

UncaAlby:
Unless Larry Elders' book has some data or statistics its not very helpful. Just because Larry Elder or Prelutsky says Blacks are more racist, that doesn't make it so! I know you people hate education, but sheesh, your opinion (or Larry Elders) does not actually PROVE any point.

jcdean1978:
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I "like being a victim." Do I know you? Have we met? No? Then you're not in much of a position to make that assesment.

You also racistly state: "No, instead these people work hard, achieve based on the merit of their actions, and contribute to the world. The the majority of the black community does NONE of that." Again, wow. I take it you don't know many black people. Maybe if you like actually go out and meet some black people you'll find that your stereotypes are based more on right-wing fantasy than fact.

Argh! Think!
jerubaal writes: Monday, January, 08, 2007 12:24 PM
Many blacks ARE racist
For example - and to prove the most extreme example - many of them promote the rule that only black people can say the n-word, but white people and other races cannot. This is a racist rule on its face.

Have you ever heard of SELF-deprecation as opposed to DEPRECATION. I'll give you a second to look them up in the dictionary . . .

O.k., look, Black people using the N-word is not good, but it is self-deprecation. It is making fun of or being critical of YOURSELF or someone in YOUR group.

By the same token, if YOU call your mother an idiot that's one thing. But, if I call your mother an idiot, you and the rest of your family are probably going to be MORE upset at me than when you said the exact same thing. That's not racist. That's not even prejudiced. It's not even a unique or novel idea.

Think.

Ya'll settle down!
The sweeping generalizations won't help anybody or anything.

Hackneyed rhetoric and tired talking points are even worse.

The burden is on the white majority, at the grassroots level, to persuade blacks to abandon the socialist model. This will be accomplished only if attempted in the spirit of Christian camaraderie, and will backfire horribly if the present level of condescension is maintained. We whites have a whopper of a sales and marketing job on our hands. We have to convince blacks, against generations of ingrained and suspicious lore, that we aren’t so bad, we don’t hate them, and self-reliance, individual accountability and free markets work for any skin color.

It’s ironic that the previously-forbidden mixed couples and mixed congregations are leading the charge on this initiative.

Tubbs -- Racism -- Still?
Look, tubbs.

Nobody is saying that there's no such thing as racism. All those wonderful links you've provided tell us nothing new.

As a matter of fact, as I recall, Larry Elder discussed much of that on his talk show, some years ago I believe. So it's what you call "Old News."

The topic at hand is NOT, "Is there racism?", to which the answer is obviously affirmative. If that was the topic at hand, then your links might prove useful. We could even expand on that topic and ask an even more meaningful question, "Does racism stand in the way of success in America today?"

BUT - - -

The topic at hand is, "Are Blacks MORE racist than Whites?"

From that perspective, THERE IS NO HARD DATA, because, since it is Number One on the list of things you "can't say in America", NOBODY (to my knowlege) has started any such study.

It's one of those things that, if somebody even TRIED to do a study, all the toe-tag liberal knee-jerk do-gooders would crawl out of the woodwork to demonize the very people holding the study as being racists.

They would make the claim the very question itself is racist.

So necessarily all the "data" is going to be anecdotal and made from implications from other data. Other data, for example, such as the complete absense of Hate Crimes committed by blacks. The mayor of New Orleans calling for a new "Chocolate City", and nobody so much as utters a peep in outrage.

Can you imagine what would happen if a mayor somewhere wanted to call his town "Vanilla City"? And I don't mean like "Artichoke City" coz they happen grow a lot of it. Jackson, Sharpton, et all would be swarming over the poor guy like there was no tomorrow. There would be protests in the streets!

"Chocolate City" happens to be racist remark, from a black man. But nobody says a thing about it. Which is one of the reasons WHY blacks are more racist -- nobody calls them on the carpet for it. They're given a "pass" for racism.

Which is unfortunate, because that tends to be self-destructive.

Losing agument
Burt give it up, you will never win that argument with a closed minded supposed victim because you haven't suffered the pains of slavery so who cares about your "racist opinions". Thats why I enjoy reading articles from Sowell, Williams and many other courageous black conservatives who say the exact same thing as you. Thy are called Uncle Toms by their vicious black brothers and sisters but at least they can't be called racists. Keep the faith brother.

tubbs
Re: "Black" names on resumes. What would they be? If you're referring to last names, there are more Black Johnsons than Scandinavian-American Johnsons now days; watch a football game and you will notice many Black players with Irish last names, as well as British ones. If you're referring to first names, there are Jewish Chandras and white LaDonnas, so the name may have no relevance at all to ethnicity. It would seem to me that unless the race itself is revealed in the resume, the name would be meaningless.

tubbs - on Thinking - and The N-Word(R)
On Thinking:

Why do you suppose that when somebody disagrees with you it's because they didn't THINK? Don't you suppose maybe two different people can approach the same problem, use their mental resources, and come to different conclusions?

It's been said that when two people agree on everything, only one of them is thinking.

On The N-Word(R):

I happen to be well aware of the so-called justification for blacks saying "The N-Word(R)," and I'm afraid it's just not sufficient. Blacks should shun the word as much as, or more so, than they expect whites to.

And most older blacks (having gained some maturity) in fact *do* shun the word. It's mostly the younger crowd, trying to dare anyone to say anything to them about anything. "The N-Word(R)" is only one of numerous perjoritives used in this crowd.

Even more of a reason for the mature to shun its use.

This is, after all, a very old debate. As far as I'm concerned, the issue has been settled.


Tubbs
I know a lot of black people, in fact I (white if it matters) was in the minority growing up. Most of them are racist against whites. The people who come here from Africa do NOT like the African Americans living here because they are for the most part lazy, self centered, and acting like a victim. These imigrents some in and bust their butt to do good here. The land of opportunity and they have the same color of skin you do but somehow these people make IT!

Why? WORK ETHIC AND INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY!!! It has nothing to do with the color of your skin but rather the culture that has formed around it. The culture that talks about murdering police officers, demeaning women, destroying familys, thug life, vitimhood, handouts, and general disrespect for all things good.

You need to wake up and listen to Bill Cosby and others who are trying to turn things around. If there are white bigots today, the majority of them are the product of black racist hatred.

Bomb-Throwing
Mr. Prelutsky:

Your conclusion that blacks are more racists than whites - is drawn only to sell your book. It's unhealthy,confrontational and negatively incitely - and a balled-faced lie. It's a marketing hook. Who buys your crap anyway? I'm sure the same 10,000 white folks that need validation that's there's nothing wrong with them-it's the rest of us that are the PROBLEM.

First, you cannot speak for all blacks (oh, by the way, there are 300 millions folks that live in the U.S. but they're not anywhere "nearly all white")as you have not ever met all of us and you have no right to speak to what's in our hearts.

The problem with you conservatives is you chase you own tails on the issue of race matters. You go back to the same examples: Jesse, Al, and a couple of others. You stick to the celebs and say "see, all blacks are racist (just like us). Look at those three or four. That's the whole lot of 40 million African-Americans too. That's how they think alright". And of course, this is what your conservative white audience wants to hear. It justifies their unrequited feelings and thoughts of racism, sexism, and other phobias against a "minority" population.

Mr. Relutsky, you haven't spent a dime calling up a decent sample of black folks to ask us what we think. BTW, I can't name one federal law passed by a black legislature to subjigate white Americans, or even proposed. Yet, true racism, that by which rights and privileges are legally and socially denied - that is RACISM. Between you and the talk show host - NOPE, Janet Jackson incident, Al Sharpton and Jesse's tirades, are not an example of reverse racism. But the denial of rights, privileges, equal taxation and distribution - that is RACISM. Whether it takes place should be judged per incident.

I believe the reason some blacks steer clear of whites and view (them) with a jaundiced, mistrustful eye - well, just from the postings on the board - "oh. poor little (white) me, I had a bad experience with a (black) person and I'm so scared (they) will kill me one day and I really try to get along with them but all of the (blacks) just cry and moan about racism and they don't value what we (white) folks value and we're the only ones that work hard and fly the flag and value education and love our children and OH!, poor us and what can more can we do for these (black) folks 'cause we've just done enough, oh poor (white) America...".

Shut up with the whining White America. Live your lives. Stop blaming blacks and other people that make you uncomfortable for your screwed up lives. Perhaps some of your white audience needs to face the reality that on personal levels, they are just not likable people.

And keep your hard-on for Jesse, Al (and I guessnoe Janet Jackson) to yourselves. The vast majority of black folks, like white folks, work hard, are peaceful, patriotic and keep to themselves. Why don't you do the same. White America, if you are so concerned about welfare cheats, rudeness and violence, how about spending your time cleaning up the white folks that show up on Jerry Springer, et.al.? Are because they possess tragically bad habits, does that make them honorary "African-Americans" now? Clean your house before you come clean mine.

PS: Funny how blacks are nothing more than untrained, illiterate, albatrosses around the neckes of great White America - until a war breaks out and all hands are needed on deck to protect the (white) American values.

Hypocrites.

You prove my point
So, UncaAlby if as you say "THERE IS NO HARD DATA" on whether Blacks are MORE racist than Whites, then neither you, Prelutzky,or I can say that Blacks are more racist as Prelutzky idiotically claimed at the outset (at least not with any credibility).

Now if we're going to pull up anecdotal evidence to support such a claim, I'm pretty sure that I can come up with more examples of white on Black racism than you can the reverse. Furthermore, the studies I cited go further to prove this point than an off-hand quote from Ray Nagin.

On thinking: I can only assume when a group of people nod in unison at the topsy-turvy, nonsensical, idea that Blacks are more racist than whites without a scintilla of evidence to support such a claim, that someone is not thinking.

And yes, ringmaster you are absolutely right: a closed-minded supposed victim such as myself will never concede an argument such as this. There's not even any point in reading what I have written because I am soooooooo closed minded and supposedly victimized. All jokes aside, I also find these discussions generally pointless, but I could not let such an intellectual fallacy ("Blacks are more racist than whites because . . .? because? well because EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!) stand without comment.

Tubbs -- on Thinking
quoth tubbs: "I can only assume when a group of people nod in unison at the topsy-turvy, nonsensical, idea that Blacks are more racist than whites without a scintilla of evidence to support such a claim, that someone is not thinking."

I can only suggest that since you ASSUME that the concept is "topsy-turvy" and "nonsensical," that YOU are the one who has closed his mind to any concepts that might possibly break your pre-conceptions.

When the mind closes, thinking STOPS.

Fetch states that Elder *does* have evidence in his book. It's been a while since I've read it, I'll have to look it up.

tubbs
"But, if I call your mother an idiot, you and the rest of your family are probably going to be MORE upset at me than when you said the exact same thing."

Not by a long shot buddy!

I've never seen a study
that quantifies racism within an individual.

The only study I've seen proved that almost everyone has subconscious racial preferences, and the sad thing to me was that 2% of blacks have a subconscious racial preference for whites.

Racism = collectivism
Racism is a form of Collectivism.

A racist doesn't see an individual, but sees his/her 'group', and infers that the individual must possess the characteristics (real or perceived) of the group (or collective).

Racism (and all other forms of collectivism) are incompatible with American concepts of individual freedom. However, one can't deny that it exists.

Does affirmative action help eliminate racism? No, it actually increases racism - as seen in some well-intentioned (but racist sounding) posts on this site, written by people that have suffered 'reverse' discrimination.

How do we eliminate racism? Not by using unfair and weakness-inspiring practices like affirmative action, but by using the 'strength' of our laissez faire C A P I T A L I S M.

Here are some steps that can be contemplated:

* eliminate welfare
* eliminate affirmative action
* privatize education
* drastically reduce the employment sectors in which ABILITY is no longer the criterion. Examples include Govt employment, unionized labor etc.

I’ll put it up here again.
This business of saying, or believing, that all blacks agree with and/or think like JJ and big Al, is just as ludicrous as Alizoom’s assertion that “all conservatives” say and or believe it.

Blacks: Whites feel like socialist programs are government-sanctioned theft. Whites feel that blacks, as a group or percentage, have been the largest recipient of Robin Hood’s unburdening visits.

Whites: Quit calling the game from the sidelines. There are legitimate victims here, most of them victims of peer pressure, government schooling, marketing, and the predatory (and universal) practice of older males toward younger females. Everybody says that these inner city youth need father figures. Too few fathers are willing to adopt these kids in order to make a difference. Complacency, generalization, and callous judgment are easy. Improving the situation will require hard work. White (leftist) men created the inner-city cesspit. White men should jolly-well fix it.

Everybody: Stop falling prey to sensationalism and fear-mongering in the news. Make an effort to get to know individuals. This problem will only be solved on a one-on-one basis, two people at a time. Most of us know at least one person of the “other” race that we consider to be a quality individual. Get to know some more!

The sinless sheep
Of course there is no such thing as Black Racism. This ids the Jessie Jackson syndrome. The lambs of Jessie are sinless, he has always said them Whiteys are the evil, those who bow to worship him as the savior are sinless. Imagine this scene, in the days the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ(Not Jackson) walked this earth. Imagine if Jackson and Sharpton had lived in those days. The Jewish leaders catch the woman in the act of adultery, they threw her at Jesus feet, and told him what she had been caoght in the act of doing. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone" The leaders slowly turned and left, but imagine Jackson and Sharpton there with theie disciples and worshippers. Then saith Jessie and Al, we shall hurl the first stone then you our sinless sheep thou also the toss, for lo the ho, and Jesus are them Hymies, listen thou to us, for lo we are the sinless god you must worhip and obey. If thou doith as we say surely you shall be with us in Jessie heaven. Listen not to this man and what he saith about sin.

Racism Is A Thing of the Past.
According to most repubs/cons institutional racism and discrimination are things of the past.
They no longer exist in american society and if they do they are the exception rather than the rule. According as Dr. Martin Luther King states and repubs/cons now repeat:

"We live in a colorblind society where people are now judged by the content of their character, intelligence and abilities rather than the color of their skin."

Anyone who complains of institutional racism and discrimination, is playing the "race card." Anyone political activist who speaks out on these issues is a "race hustler".

Anyway, in the world of todays repubs/cons all of that happened "before my time" so why am I
still held responsible, because some of my best friends are minorities.

It's an oppositional culture versus
a middle-class, normative culture thing, much more than a black and white thing, I believe.

I may be wrong, but I've come to the conclusion that to a profound extent much of black style and black culture is oppositional in nature; opposing the oppresor's ways, i.e. the "white man". The ghetto swagger, the flamboyant, rococo English, the loudness, the flamboyant, gaudy dress, and so much that passes for authentically black, is in my opinion, to a great extent a reactionary rejection of the oppresor's staid, middle-class ways and manners. Black oppositional culture, in an understandable rejection of the oppresor not only rejected the oppresor but the manner and style of the oppresor, even if ultimately that came to mean rejecting the middle-class and middle-class ways. Black oppositional culture threw out the baby with the bath water. "Don't act white" often became "don't act middle-class", to be authentically black often means nothing more than, "be anything but staid, reserved, and middle-class".

I speak only for myself; the prejudice that I have felt against African-Americans has stemmed directly from my revulsion to African-American oppositional culture when I have encountered it in African-Americans, and I've encountered it more often than not. I can't help but think that any middle-class person of any race would have to conclude that black oppositional culture is intentionally foreign and bizarre ; foreign and bizarre to staid, and reserved, manners and ways, in other words for lack of a better term, to middle-classness. And so it is, how else to account for such foreign and bizarre sounding names for children such as "Delmontre" (perhaps a misspelling of Delmonte?), "Deville", "Lamika", all names I've heard given to black children. How to account for the numbers of African-Americans that have rejected the "white man's religion", Christianity, for Islam, as if the Islamic world had been any less racist or not practiced cruel slavery upon black Africans. I suppose that at least here in America it wasn't the Arab but the White Man that was the oppresor; a questionable salve.

As an immigrant to this country, from an outsider's perspective, I've concluded that in the US there does not exist a truly agreed upon "public culture", at least not between blacks and whites. Most countries have an implicit "public culture", a public persona we don when entering the public square, a way of speech, manner and mannerism, etc. In most countries this public persona and culture consists of the accepted middle-class or upper-class ways and manners, for African-Americans I believe, this has historically presented a dilemma. How to to accept and feel comfortable with a "public culture" and "persona" steeped in the manners of the oppresor?

There is a fundamental cultural rift in America between black oppositional culture and "white" middle-class culture, which is no longer tied to race or racism, although it is often confused with racial animosity. I see this played out with two current immigrant groups. Young americanized Hispanics most often adopt black oppositional culture as their own. To see two young, white Hispanics dressed in flamboyant Hip-Hop gear calling each other the N-word on a NYC subway would be hilarious if it weren't so disheartening, why young Hipanics adopt the alienation of black oppositional culture, I'm not sure. On the other side of a historical American cultural divide you have young Asian kids with names like Ashleigh (spelled just that way, in the old surname way), Drew, and Reed, all names I've seen Asian kids have. In their eagerness to join the American middle-class Asian parents often give their children names reaching back to some New England or Virginian Anglo-Saxon propriety. Two races, neither black nor white, but immersed in an ancient American cultural divide.

Left Angle - - Question
Other than the War on Drugs, what "institutionalized racism" do you see?

How can COLOSSUS...?

.....JERABAUB...

.....COLOSSUS has been programmed with baseballdoc's personality profile and life experience ...so all responses represent the they way baseballdoc would think and respond .....COLOSSUS

Augustus_McRae
I don't agree with your take on African-American culture, but what a breath of fresh air to hear an opinion that is not entirely based on republican/conservative memes! What a shock to read an independent opinion (although Mr. Ed and a couple of others appear to at least have not taken the entire glass of Kool-Aid).

You are the kind of person that can bridge gaps between the extremes. I sincerely appreciate and applaud such a well-thought out critique.

I think your take on African-Americans has some merit, but it also implies that Blacks look to whites for all aspects of what they should and should not do. This is not the case. Were Jazz or Hip-Hop oppostional to white culture from their inceptions? Or were they independent, unique creations of a community. I think you fall into the an "anglocentric" trap in your critque, but your argument is not completely untrue.

There are many aspects of African-American culture that you may find appealing or distasteful that are pretty much unique African-American creations. These aspects of culture are not oppositional in nature (see: gospel/spirituals, hip-hop, jazz, griffiti art, blues, rock and roll, break-dancing, and on and on).

There are elements of "don't do that, it's acting white" within Black culture, but to argue that most of African-American culture is oppositional is a great dimunition of the originality and soul of Black folk.

I think the conclusion that one must draw from your analysis is that if Blacks/Hispanics would just stop rebelling against White middle class culture and "get with the program" everything would be alright. I disagree with that idea. I think you can find plenty of examples of Blacks who wholeheartedly take on "white middle class" values and fall flat (see Claude Allen)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Allen

There are also plenty of examples of African-Americans who refuse to take on white middle-class values in toto and thrive
(see: Jay-Z, Russell Simmons, Sean Combs, Cornell West, Maya Angelou).

Anyway, thanks for your post.

Tubbs & Alizoom

.....I really don't have much patience with whiners ....if you guys want my respect ...then earn it .....COLOSSUS

Funny
baseballdoc, I graduated from a top-twenty law school several years ago and I do pretty well these days. Your respect is probably the least important thing I can think of.

Augustus_McRae said:
"The ghetto swagger, the flamboyant, rococo English, the loudness, the flamboyant, gaudy dress, and so much that passes for authentically black, is in my opinion, to a great extent a reactionary rejection of the oppresor's staid, middle-class ways and manners."

Most of these attributes could as easily be attributed to African cultural remnants as to oppositional behavior. I have noticed that many people from third world countries (really from any country outside the U.S.) have different ideas about what decibel level is appropriate for conversation. There are several books documenting how Black English is derived in part from African roots. Etc.

When One Lacks Data
then one can only reason from one's own experience. I grew up white in the South before MLK. I remember it well. I was a child when the 101st Airborne was on the streets of Little Rock where I lived. My father was a Flaming Liberal anti-segregationist. The worst spanking I ever got in my life was when I came home from school and used the "N" word. I didn't have to walk to school that year after we got some phone calls with words I did not yet know. I also spent considerable time in service in many locations. I have lived in many, many states while my husband finished his military career. Since I left home I have only encountered two white racists. That was 40 years ago. I have, however, had to deal with dozens of blacks who were racists or who saw racism in the most absurd places.

Example to prove the point. An E4 reported to me in a military manner and complained that his supervisor was discriminating against him. I asked the details. The young man had called into work to say he was going to sick call. His supervisor found him in the barracks, sleeping. Claiming sick call and not going was administratively actionable. A big no-no. He told me that the supervisor didn't check on any of his co-workers. I asked the young man if any of his co-workers were doing the same thing. He said that they were not. I checked with the supervisor. He had gotten tipped by another NCO who was black that he had heard this from one of his troops. I got investigated.

In my last assignment, I was one of 7 officers in our squadron. Three of them were black. Two of them were exemplary. One was so incompetent as to defy description. I had two senior NCOs, one of them black, who retired rather than work with him again. He could not spell nor could he write grammatically. He refused to let his very-competent secretary correct his work. He bollixed up part of his job so badly that the commander assigned me those duties. He marched into my office and said that he realized I was prejudiced but he thought that we "should be able to work together." It was meaningless to him that the other two black officers and I worked fine together.

Those are my experiences, but the others are not limited to the military.

tubbs -- Values
quoth tubbs: "I think you can find plenty of examples of Blacks who wholeheartedly take on "white middle class" values and fall flat (see Claude Allen)"

Can you honestly say that Claude Allen is the "rule", rather than the "exception"?

"There are also plenty of examples of African-Americans who refuse to take on white middle-class values in toto and thrive"

Jay-Z - entertainer
Russell Simmons - "hip hop mogul" (entertainer)
Sean Combs - entertainer
Cornell West - professor (wow, there's "real life")
Maya Angelou - respected poet and author ()

Don't you know anyone who owns a Burger King franchise? Runs American Express? Is Secretary of State?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to insult blacks. If a white person gave us a list of blacks he respected and most of them were entertainers, you'd call him prejudiced.

You don't have to accept "white middle-class culture" to thrive, however you want to define "white middle-class culture". Just that silly old protestant work ethic is fine.


BLACK SNIVELING
BURT,

IF SHE ATTACKED YOU THEN SHE WAS MOST LIKELY ON TV TELLING ONE AND ALL THAT BLACKS JUST CAN'T GET A FAIR SHAKE. THIS IS EASY TO PROVE, ASK THE BLACK CAUCUS, DON'T ASK THE WHITE ONE, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO EXIST, DON'T DESERVE IT, NEVER WILL, UH UH!

I'SE KIDA MEMBERS MY POPA A TELLIN ME US'N, MEANING MY FAMBLY, WE WUZ SLAVZ OR MYAHAP WE WUZ JIST DIRT PO.

PEOPLE CAN BE SUCH SNIVLERS AND WHINING BLACKS CAN BE JUST AS OBNOXIOUS AS ANY OTHER GROANING MOANING RACE THAT HAS TO SNIVEL ABOUT SOMETHING. HOW ABOUT JUST ACTING CIVILZED AND ADULT AND NOT SEE YOURSELF AS ANYMORE ABUSED IN THIS COUNTRY AS ANY OTHERS. IT'S BEEN OVER A HUNDRED YEARS, GET OVER IT.

Arm yourself with knowledge
If you want to illuminate your thinking on race relations, I would follow the links and buy the following books. The article addresses reparations. The Slavery Shakedown infuriated me. I think you will find that a lot of what you have been taught in school was an agenda and distorted fact after reading it. I felt betrayed by the educational system when I was done reading it. My wife almost threw it across the room. People of all races will benefit from reading it and it is exhaustively referenced. Thomas Sowell’s book is excellent as well (his references led me to the other book). I cannot recommend both of them enough and I gave both of them as Christmas gifts. In regards to one of the above posts, I would most definitely vote for Thomas Sowell for President. If he were to run with Colin Powell under an independent ticket they might be able to pull off enough votes to actually win. One can hope.

The Slavery Shakedown
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/06/09/the_slavery_shakedown/

Black Rednecks and White Liberals
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rednecks-Liberals-Thomas-Sowell/dp/1594030863/sr=8-3/qid=1168305102/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-8702594-6534512?ie=UTF8&s=books

They Were White and They Were Slaves
http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/sr=1-1/qid=1168305199/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8702594-6534512?ie=UTF8&s=books

Correction
Oops! The Slavery Shakedown was a good read and it is the article.They Were White and They Were Slaves is the book that got me spooled up. If you follow the links as I wrote them earlier it won't make sense. Sorry!

92% of Blacks are still...
hopelessly stuck on the Democratic Party Plantation getting handouts from the Man. Blacks make for an excellent study of hypocrisy:


More blacks attend church than any other race in America yet commit more crimes and disprortionately occupy the prisons more than any other race in America.

92% of Blacks vote Democrat "religiously", yet blacks overwhelmingly despise Abortion and claim to esteem Christian values. Go figure?!?

Blacks have the highest rates of illegitimate childbirths hands down, yet claim to be the most Christian among us.

Oh well! I guess you can always just blame "whitey" for everything!

Children don't see color...
When I was about 5 years old, I was at our local drug store, having a cherry coke at the soda fountain when a black man and a little girl about my age started in the door. The man who owned the store met them and they whispered back and forth. The little black girl and I were looking at each other. These were the first black people I remember seeing. The druggest came back and began fixing an ice cream cone (vanilla) and went to the back of the store. I followed him quietly and saw him hand the little black girl the ice cream and met her eyes once again. I didn't understand why she didn't come in and sit on the soda fountain stools with me. I will never forget her face, I wonder if she remembers mine.

What I find to be a Dead Giveaway
about the Left is that every time a White LIB runs for office, they only go to BLACK churches. They never go to WHITE churches. Could it be that White CHRISTIAN churches actually do OPPOSE abortion unlike Black so-called "Christian" churches?!? What would Jesus Christ say about Black churches cheering for Babykilling, Spawn-of-Satan Libs spewing a gospel straight out of the pit of Hell and the mouths of demons?!?

Attention: Take back the government
Amen!

Take Back Government -- Churches
The vast majority of Black Churches ALSO oppose abortion.

Liberals go to Black Churches because, generally, Blacks give a warm welcome to Democrats, but despise Republicans. They're smart enough to remain mute on the subject of Abortion when at a church of any sort.

raceism
I agree,the public seems to have accepted the idea that raceism is one sided.they seem blind to the fact that minorities are already influenceing our politics.mexicans in california,reelecting an incompitent mayor in new orleans,indian casino money electing a congresswoman in washington state,and it can only get worse. Harry Johnson Port Angeles Wa.

Christians are compelled to be
the SALT of the Earth. Black Churches have become the salt in the wounds of Christ on the Cross when they support candidates who support GENOCIDE while they feign to "care" for women's "right" to commit infanticide. Where in the Bible does God give women exclusively the right to commit genocide? Blacks are filled with racism. How else can one explain why they feed off the white and Black Liberal racebaiting? Since when is racism part of the family of God?

Black churches just remember
the Words of Christ if you really believe in Him. "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father." "If you love me, you will keep my Commandments." Did God command you to kill the unborn??? You will be held accountable before the Throne of God in the Judgment of all mankinfd for sins of commission and sins of omission. What will you say to God, the author of ALL life, for supporting the genocide of over 30 million innocent infant human beings? That it was fashionable and chic to follow the lead of the NYC and Hollywood Liberal media crowd to bash whitey andsupport candidates that racebait you to hate whitey for vengeful satisfaction? Have you not also learned that God said, "Vengeance is mine"?

ya gotta stop da black thing
Until the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons of the world stop calling themselves "black" and begin to call themselves "Americans" racism will never end. They are the ones that keep their race down and thus keep themselves in power.


U-R not the only one who is frustrated!
I am a 53-year-old white woman. I live in Lancaster,
California, up in the high desert above Los Angeles.
My significant other and I are white.

We moved up here in search of a lower cost of living.
(Well, our rent is somewhat lower, but the electricity
costs for summer air conditioning are sky-high.)

Most whites I know want blacks to succeed--if for no
other reason that we would like to encounter blacks who
have moved away from the victim mindset, we'd like to not be apprehensive about some of the blacks we see, and we're also
tired of being taxed to death for welfare mothers' reproductive
and other mistakes.

Although some years ago the Lancaster and Palmdale
areas were full of people who worked in aerospace (what
some folks would call a middle-class welfare program),
they are now full of people who were enticed to move
up here by Section 8 rent vouchers and other forms of
welfare.

Many of them came from South Central L.A. Many are
black. Others are Hispanic. And yes, some of them are
white trash too. Many of them are reputed to have
moved up here to be near their incarcerated loved ones in
the local prison.

It's beginning to seem like "open season" on
Caucasians here.

I came home to my rented duplex one day to find,
loitering on the driveway, a black girl at one end and a
teenage Hispanic couple at the other end.

They claimed they "weren't hurting anything." I
figured they were possibly casing the joint. They got very
nasty when I asked them to leave, and the black girl
called me the now-standard epithet of "fat-@$$ed white b!tch." The Hispanic teens got nasty too, but not
with such a memorable slur.

One day I was coming out of a convenience store after
pre-paying for some gasoline. I wasn't moving all
that fast because my injured knee was acting up. She was
literally just inches behind me, and she was literally
screaming into a cell phone.

I turned around and asked her to tone it down. She
basically told me to move my @$$ faster--and yes, I got
called a fat-@$$ed white b!tch. (I couldn't move much faster, as an injured knee was giving me pain.)

Outside, I got so mad that I called her the N-word
(oh, my!) and told her that if she wanted to get respect,
she had better be willing to give it. She also
started pushing me.

A few years ago, I was standing in line for a
financial transaction. In front of me was a black woman
chewing gum and cracking it very loudly. In the line to
the left of me was another black woman, cracking her gum
even more loudly. Open-mouthed. Angry face.

When I got up to the counter, I very timidly said to
the woman in front of me, "Um, no offense, but could
you please not crack your gum in my face?" She said
nothing.

However, the uber-PC black female in the line to the
left of me started intoning that it was Black History
Month, and she was teaching her children not to give in
to the "oppressors."

Now, how in the H3LL I was oppressing that black
female by asking ANOTHER black female to not crack gum in
my face, I cannot figure out.

I was stunned. I said that I had been mugged some
years ago, and the black creeps told me they didn't care
if they killed me because I'm white.

She responded that it must have been because of the
way I look (big and tall and overweight, plus
middle-aged), implying that it was okay because I wasn't
good-looking (well, in her estimation anyway).

Now, many people chew gum like cows... however, some
black people have made it into their very own gutter
art form, and they get very racially hostile about being
asked to tone it down. They seem to assume that if I
don't like gum chewing, it MUST be racially motivated.

I've gotten that attitude from several some other
black people (mainly females, for some reason) when I ask
them not to chew their gum like that.

Now, the fact of the matter is that my father (as pale
as I am) chewed gum really loudly (maybe not as loudly
as blacks do), with an open mouth, and he would roll
the crap around on his tongue as well.

In addition, when my family was sardined into the car
for a trip somewhere, he and one of my sisters would
deliberately pull out the gum and stuff their mouths
with it... because they knew that my mother and I hated
it (I couldn't figure out why she would marry someone
with a habit that she found totally disgusting).

Nowadays, I can't stand the sight, the sound, or the
smell of gum chewing. I avoid gum chewers when I can.
I would not even attempt to date one... after all,
when two people annoy each other, the first thing they do
is the very thing they know their partner hates,
right?

I also drove two different Volkswagen bugs over the period of about 15 years. BOTH cars were rear-ended by black men who were driving more-expensive cars, and BOTH black men tried to wiggle out of compensating me for the damage. One of these men had a sister who worked in the insurance business, and she yelled racial epithets at me over the phone.

At one point, I was working two jobs to have the car repaired while waiting to get compensation for my damages. One night I got mugged while walking to a bus stop after finishing the second job. The two hoodlums were also black... and they said, among other trash talk, that they didn't care if they killed me because I am white.

Now, is that a racist comment or what?

From my experiences, I would have to agree
that many black people are far more racist than
whites.

Unlike the rumors, no white person I've ever met in my
life sits awake at night, trying to figure out more
ways to "oppress" blacks.

Oh, yeah, and this PC forum is programmed so that I cannot post the real spelling of "fat-@$$ed white b!tch," but I hope that you all get my drift.

pale and peeved
Just a few more comments: America is part of Western civilization, and black people have been here for hundreds of years. It's in black peoples' own best interests to act civilized and assimilate to Western civilization.

When I hear that a lot of blacks think that getting educated and being intellectual are "acting white" and are therefore to be scorned, all I can say is that those people are cutting their own throats.

If some blacks still resent white and Asian people for being more successful than they are, and if they also refuse to do the mainstream things which bring prosperity (graduating from high school, getting job skills, getting married before reproducing, etc.), then they have painted themselves into a corner.

Very few people can be NBA stars or professional musicians of any stripe; but a lot of people can learn to read, write, calculate, and work with computers, and those same people are deserving of admiration too.

agitators
How did that story go?

Jessie Jackson was shopping for a wash machine. He complained to the salesman that all the machines were white and he thought that was discrimination and that there should be an equal number of black machines.

The salesman paused, thought for a moment and then called Jesse over to one of the machines, opened the lid and revealed, "The agitators are all black."
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