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Tuesday, May 08, 2007
Bruce Bartlett :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats and Conservatives
by Bruce Bartlett
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I hadn’t planned on writing another column about Hillary Clinton, but the one I wrote last week has been so widely misunderstood that I feel compelled to do so.

To recap, I said that no Republican can win the presidency next year. If one accepts this premise, then if follows that it is in the interest of conservatives to support the most conservative Democrat running for that party’s nomination. I went on to say why I think Hillary Clinton may be the most conservative Democrat.

To begin with, it is obviously not impossible for a Republican to win next year. But clearly 2008 is shaping up as a Democratic year. It will take a monumental Democratic screw-up to lose. I can think of only one instance in American history where a party had the kind of advantage the Democrats have and still lost. That was 1948, when Republican Thomas E. Dewey blew an election that should have been in the bag and lost to Democrat Harry Truman.

While conceding the possibility that I am wrong, I think it is foolish to ignore the strong Democratic trend that is indisputable. Republicans should remember that they just barely won the White House in 2000 and 2004 against very poor Democratic candidates and with the party strongly united behind George W. Bush. I just don’t see that happening again next year.

The Republicans are not going to be as united and it is almost a certainty that the Democrats will run a better campaign 2008. I think all three of the Democrats within striking distance of the nomination will be better candidates than Al Gore or John Kerry. And because of the close losses in 2000 and 2004, the Democrats will really pull together this time.

Meanwhile, voter fatigue is going to wear heavily on the Republican nominee, who is not likely to have the same unity of party that the Democrat will have. It is obvious that there is no enthusiasm for any of the Republicans, which is why so many in the party are yearning for another candidate, such as former Sen. Fred Thompson, to jump in the race. The Republican nominee will be the last candidate still standing at the end of the day, which is not a prescription for party unity.

In any case, one need not accept my idea that the election next year is the Democrats’ to lose to want to hedge one’s bet. Many of the Republican Party’s largest donors are already doing exactly that. Business Week reports that John Mack, head of Morgan Stanley, a big Wall Street firm, is supporting Sen. Clinton. In 2004, Mack raised $200,000 for Bush’s re-election. The New York Sun reports that a number of other big Bush contributors have also moved into the Clinton camp.

These and other big money people are just the leading edge of what I believe will be a steady move into the Democratic sphere in order to have some influence on the next president. This helps explain why, collectively, the Democratic candidates are raising much more money than the Republicans.

It is too easy to write off such people as opportunists who just want to be on the winning side. There is a deep undercurrent of hostility to the Republican Party among many who formerly supported its candidates. They are simply disgusted with the incompetence with which the Iraq war has been waged, the total disappearance of fiscal discipline, and what they view as the party’s incessant pandering to ignorant and intolerant yahoos on issues such as immigration, gays, global warming, abortion, and stem cell research, among others.

No doubt, a great many conservatives will say good riddance to such people. However, if the Republican Party loses everyone except religious zealots, gun nuts, anti-tax extremists and pro-life absolutists, then it is not going to win any national elections. That’s not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of the views of those I just listed; it’s simple math. There just aren’t enough of such people to put together a winning coalition. The price of purity is political powerlessness.

Consequently, I anticipate that more and more Republicans and even a few conservatives are going to start looking at supporting one of the Democratic candidates. I suggested that Sen. Clinton may be the most conservative Democrat now running. But others believe that Sen. Obama may be acceptable because of his deeply conservative temperament, and some point to New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson’s excellent record of tax-cutting.

The point is that there are better and worse Democrats from a conservative point of view. Those who prefer to go down with the sinking Republican ship may come to regret that they didn’t try to exercise influence on the Democratic nomination before the nomination was sewn up.

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About The Author

Bruce Bartlett is a former senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis of Dallas, Texas. Bartlett is a prolific author, having published over 900 articles in national publications, and prominent magazines and published four books, including Reaganomics: Supply-Side Economics in Action.

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©Creators Syndicate
Bartlett has always been a CINO
so I don't know why TH is so enamoured with him. He voted for the Dems last election http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/BruceBartlett/2006/10/31/a_vote_for_gridlock, and is nothing more than an opportunist who thinks about his wallet.

Two things:
1. The Democrats stay together and defend each other, like one big family.

2. They also lie through their teeth, twist the truths, have the media cover their rear ends, and have mastered manipulating the masses.

So I agree. The new President will be a Democrat, and I also think the Dems will gain Senate and House seats.

Finally, I really do think the masses deserve all of it. During the '06 elections when some of my friends decided to not vote at all, I replied to them that they were fools. I said that since they were mad that they could/did not get 100% of what they wanted, by staying home they would assure that they would not even get 50%, but "0" of what they wanted. They proved me right.

A waste of badwidth
When we live in an age where news cycles last 12 hours, and a sea change in politics can wax or wane in as little as 24, why in God's name should we listen to anyone who claims to know with certitude what's going to happen 18 months from now? The only reason we can be assured of anything is if people like Bruce Bartlett spend all that time working to achieve their self-fulfilling prophesy.

Unlike jono, I won't bother trying to label you, Bruce. It'd be a waste of a good pejorative.

jono64a
Um . . . don't most Americans think with their pocketbook? And vote that way . . ?

Bartlett hits and misses
I don't share Mr Bartlett's prospects regarding the inevitability a Democrat president, but I do agree that Hillary Clinton is not the monster she's made out to be. At least, I doubt she will be more monstrous than Bill Clinton or George Bush. From a purely fiscal perspective the Clinton Presidency was more conservative than the Bush Presidency. Remember, that Bill Clinton also signed the Defense of Marriage Act, supported NAFTA, cut taxes in 1997, and was less atrocious on border security than the sitting president. The Bush Administration is not conservative, and the only alleged "conservative" credentials cited for this Administration are on Iraq and the War on Terror. But this is also erroneous, since the war in Iraq is not a war that one can support on conservative principles. It is a war marked with utopianism and dangerous idealism.

We should celebrate the end of the Bush presidency and just hope our next president -- whether a Democracy or a Republican -- can undo the madness of this one.


Give Bartlett Credit
He was one of the first regular pundits to call President Bush out as a fraud (or "Imposter") he is. I will would never vote for Senator Clinton. And there is no material difference between her and Rudy McRomney, so there is no reason to dutifully line up behind one of them. Please, please, please Republican primary voters, let's nominate a conservative, not another fraud.

Too smart by half.....
I wonder if TH recognizes sour grapes.....?

To jono64a
Thanks for that link, it did not work but I was able to locate the article. I don't remember that article from last year so I must not have read it. It was totally insane. Congress overspends and Bush doesn't veto it so he is going to vote for a Demo congressman?

Now in his previous article he says essentially that "if we think no Republican can win, we should vote for Hillary". He was so reviled in that article that he felt he had to explain his point in this article.

No Mr. Barlett, we did not miss your point. I think you have been captured by the system. Most of us have voted for Republican candidates (since Reagan) only because they were the lesser of the evils, the Dem candidate being prime evil. Voting for Hillary because she is somehow "more conservative" than Edwards is INSANE. Its like saying, throw me in that vat of molten steel rather than the sun because the the steel is not as hot as the sun. In either case, you will be vaporized so the small degree of difference in superheat is immaterial.

A lot of here, being thouroughly disgusted with Bush for a lot of reasons Mr. Barlett mentioned in the 2006 article do NOT intend to hold our noses and vote for the Republican if the Republican is another RINO or liberal posing as a Republican this time. But I can assure you, I will NEVER vote for a Democrat if they are anything like the current Democrats.

A Republican Can't Win?
I have heard those words before; and then the Dems picked George McGovern, and Richard Nixon became President. I also heard those words in 1976, and Ford ALMOST won. In 1980 they said about Reagan that he would drag us into nuclear war, and he won. In 2004, everybody said that Bush couldn't win a second term, that he was too unpopular. They also said that the governor of the second-most depressed state in the union couldn't become President against an incumbent, but Bill Clinton was President for eight years.

Bruce Bartlett is positing a point of which he knows nothing. In 2007 we are almost 18 months away from an election. To call it now is the height of idiocy, and an idiocy to which I am surprised Bruce has subscribed.

Let the Dems pick a left liberal. The only reason that John Kerry got traction is because of anti-Bush, and John Kerry didn't become President. I give the people of this country much more credit collectively than Bruce does; I think that if the Dems go to the fringe (e.g. Edwards) that the country will not hold its nose and vote for him in favor of a more mainstream Republican. And despite Chris Matthews' opinions, the anti-abortion, anti-tax, pro-God and pro-gun position IS mainstream.

Giver-ment wins in ‘08


My prediction is that giver-ment will win the ’08 election. What specific children of the family will win, or whether the children fight like cats and dogs over the family jewels, or that they get married and their name changes from Republicrat to Dumbocrat matters not. As long as our family Socialist heritage continues I am happy.

We will get:

1. More entitlement programs
2. More spending on present entitlements
3. More agencies to reform and run interference for the present agencies
4. Approximately 8,000 new laws per year
5. More liberties and freedoms transferred to DC
6. Much larger giver-ment
7. colonization by South AmeriKa
8. More imperialism
9. More enviro wackoism
10. More wealth redistribution schemes
11. More money spent on K-12 giver-ment indoctrination camps
12. More corruption
13. More corporate lobbyist buying benefits

Long live the King’s family and his Socialist dynasty.

To recap...
NO, Bartlett, we didn't misunderstand you. We just realized you're full of sh!t!

1) It's way too early to write off the Republicans. But even if it wasn't, Rudy is ALREADY beating any Democrat candidate in head-to-head polls. Not that I'd vote for Guilialani, but the point is, if the election were held today, and Guiliani was the best we could nominate, we still win. And the Republicans' hopes are likely to get better before November, 2008.

You, like the OTHER liberal pundits, have completely mis-analyzed the Democratic congressional victory in 2006. They won because 1) they ran CONSERVATIVE

To recap...
(sorry, accidentally sent before it was finished. Trying again.)

NO, Bartlett, we didn't misunderstand you. We just think you're full of sh!t!

1) It's way too early to write off the Republicans. But even if it wasn't, Rudy is ALREADY beating any Democrat candidate in head-to-head polls. Not that I'd vote for Guilialani, but the point is, if the election were held today, and Guiliani was the best we could nominate, we still win. And the Republicans' hopes are likely to get better, not worse, before November, 2008.

You, like the OTHER liberal pundits, have completely mis-analyzed the Democratic congressional victory in 2006. They won because 1) they ran CONSERVATIVE candidates, 2) Republicans didn't turn out, and 3)they put minimum waqe increases and other issues on the state ballots; amd even then, they barely won. These will not be factors in 2008. The "conservative" democrats have been exposed by voting with Reid and Pelosi, and will be turned out. The Republicans, having gotten rid of many of the RINOs that they detested, will be glad to come back to the polls to vote for REAL Republicans. And the Democrats shot their wad with the issues in 2006.

Moreover, even if you believe the polls that supposedly say the American people are tired of the war, you also have to the believe the polls that say the American people don't want to LOSE the war. That is EXACTLY what the Democrats are offering - DEFEAT.

No, sir. The Republicans will hold the White House in 2008, and will take back both houses of Congress. Mark my words.

2) Even if the Republicans cannot win the White House, it most certainly is NOT in their best interest to support the most conservative Democrat. We want the most liberal son of a b!tch we can get in there. We want those liberal bastards to totally screw up the country, the economy, and everything. So the American people will BEG the Republican party to get them out of this mess. So the Democrats are FOREVER destroyed as a political party.

3) Do you think our presidential elections work as an OPEN PRIMARY? You seem to think we have to decide between the Democrats and the Republicans NOW. That we have to support Hillary INSTEAD of our favorite Republican. What you don't get is that we can "support" Hillary, by either contributions or voting in Democratic primaries, but when the nominees are selected, we can still vote for the Republican in the general election.

4) Exactly how is Hillary "less liberal" than the others? On every issue that matters, she's in the pocket of MoveOn.org. The War on Terror. Abortion. Supreme Court justices. Repealing the tax cuts. Raising the minimum wage. Gay marriage. And that's her PUBLIC statements, made when she's trying to PRETEND that she's a MODERATE. The way she REALLY feels is somewhere to the left of Kucinich.

5) You're a damnable plant for the Democrats, and Town Hall would be wise to dump you from its stable of columnists.

Regards,
Trevor

Poor Calculus
The Dems have a long history of taking any olive branch proferred and then beating the hapless donor senseless with it. It is utterly foolish to think if one votes for a Dem that somehow they will receive anything in return for having done so. Once in power, the Dems will do what Dems do without regard to how they got there and without any inkling of an obligation to reciprocate.

Does anyone notice how closely the preemptive surrender being advocated here parallels the Dems current policy on the WOT? It's tough, we can't win anyway, let's just quit.

Ain't buying it
Sorry Bruce, I didn't buy the last article and I ain't buying this one. To let the Dem's get the highest office in the land is to say I'm going to let Moveon.org become the President defacto. Moveon.org tells everyone that they OWN the Democractic party. If that is true, then they will become co-President and own the oval office. Are we that stupid to let that happen? The GOP would be wise to start their campaign sound bites off with the Moveon.org email to their supporters. Follow it with Dirty Harry's "The War is Lost" sound bite. Of course Nancy needs to be in there, as well. It's a PR nightmare for the Dem's. I'm not going to say it will be easy but the Dem's have given the GOP plenty of ammo to work with.

Thanks, Republican Party, for nothing
Barlett may be right. I don't support any of the current Republican candidates. Neither do most of the other folks who post on TH. Also consider that the MSM will conspire for the Democrate.

Chickens coming home to roost
The country is on a socialist trajectory that is totally inconsistent with the intent of the Founders, which was to ensure personal freedom.

Jono64a restates the adage about people voting their pocketbooks. (Actually, people vote their fears, and fear of economic hardship is one of the biggest.) However, when more and more pocketbooks are being filled at the federal trough, this gives an advantage to the liberals who keep that trough replenished with each new scheme to redistribute wealth.

There's a law of diminishing returns, which will kick in as the wealth available to redistribute declines, as it's already starting to do. The recent statistics documenting our depressed rate of growth may be an indicator of this trend. The efforts of the liberal congress to increasingly regulate business will accelerate it. Our economic recovery following 9/11 happened before the ramifications of Sarbanes-Oxley and of looming global-warming legislation became evident.

I think we're headed for a major showdown, likely to be manifested with a severe economic crisis precipitated by the second major terrorist attack. That such an attack will occur is almost guaranteed, given the messages of unwillingness and inability to defend ourselves that the liberals project to enemies who've vowed to destroy us.

When it does, it'll signal a death knell for whichever party controls the presidency and the congress. Because I'm a nasty person, I’d just as soon that it be the Democrats--for once, let ‘em reap what they sow. The bad news is that they’re going to take the rest of us down with them, which is why I simply could not vote for a liberal.

great indirect rhetorical argument
Indeed. We should give up on the Republicans and instead embrace the least smelly Democrat.

After all, we are all in favor of what the Dems bring us:

Higher taxes.

Abortion (the premeditated murder of an as yet upborn human being).

A leftist SCOTUS that legislates from the bench and uses international standards in reworking the Constitution.

Cutting and running from the struggle to preserve western civilization.

Geometrically expanding welfare-like entitlements.

Ignoring the looming social security implosion.

Blindly supporting organized labor thuggery.

Hating Wal-Mart and "big oil" and "big pharma."

Ensuring the country remains dependent on foreign oil.

Blindly acepting the pseudo-science of human-induced global warming.

Need I go on?

Sure. Let's sit back and support the least smelly Dem. Just brilliant, Bruce.

Right.

To Loadmaster
re "Moveon.org tells everyone that they own the Democratic Part". Kind of reminds you, doesn't it, of the NRA bragging after Bush II was elected that "now we [the NRA] are going to work out of the Oval Office"?

We need to return to our roots
The Republicans will lose unless they return to their conservative principles. None of the top-runners, who are top-runners only because of the media and "Party" attention, have one conservative bone between them.

I implore everyone to remember what conservatism is all about. It never had anything to do with war-mongering. That was the Democrats, remember? Conservatives always wanted humble foreign policies.

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

The attempt is being made to keep you from remembering this and instead keep you focused on fear of terrorists and the dreaded liberals. If we lose our liberty, folks, we have NO COUNTRY to defend.

Here's a good interview with Richard Viguerie, a long-time conservative:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Exclusive_Reagan_conservative_lashes_out_at_0728.html

Richard Viguerie is author of the new book,
"CONSERVATIVES BETRAYED: How George W Bush and other Big Government Republicans Hijacked the Conservative Cause"

Nope, we understood your message
And we rejected it.

Bartlett, you're a dolt
Nobody misunderstood your idiotic column of last week, and you're idiotic column of this week simply confirms it.

Your very premise "To recap, I said that no Republican can win the presidency next year. If one accepts this premise... blah blah blah" is absurd on its face (two words: Fred Thompson), and I can't help but wonder who you paid off at Townhall to have your defeatist drivel printed here. Did you mistake this site for KOS or MoveOn?

Fortunately you weren't leading the Marines at Iwo Jima, or that war would have lasted an extra year or three.

Did an attitude like yours prevail at Valley Forge? Washaington: "Well, the troops are cold. Let's pack it up, boys, and talk to British General Gage about trading blankets for our surrender!"





I urge all thinking Republicans and especially conservatives to give this terrible column the vote of one dinky checkmark that it has earned, and tell this moron exactly what you think.


what a load
I think this piece of work ( Bruce Bartlett ) has a screw loose. This is the type of mentality that loses wars etc. Bruce Bartlett- this defeatist attitude is totally unacceptable for a so called top thinking conservative in this country. If a democrat wins 2008 it will be a huge disaster, and the one thing that will help accomplish that goal is to have so called conservative writers suggest republicans can't win. We will only lose if we don't fight and there are people out there that will believe your line of cr-p. Are you related to Harry Reid?

the big Mick
Oh, so you're calling Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, fools, are you??? Because they too referred to themselves as LIBERTARIAN-CONSERVATIVES. Mick, go back to the socialist party from whence you came.

Selling out the Constitution ....

the big Mick
You're a bigger idiot than I thought you were. If you read much on TH, you would have seen the MANY posts I made urging people to contact their representatives to OPPOSE the Hate Crimes legislation. Your other implications are WAY off-base too.

I realize it may trouble some of the BIG government Republicans that I have the nerve to want our government to ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION THAT THEY TOOK AN OATH TO PRESERVE AND DEFEND, but that's just too bad, Mickey boy. Get used to it. I'm not stopping. Nor, are any other real conservatives out here. We're sick and tired of your internationalist, pro-UN, one-worlder BS.

Have a nice day... hear..


disagree
I disagree with the BB's premise. I think calling an election 18 months in advance is the kind of scaremongering akin to the global warming hysteria.

I'm more willing to put my money on the Hillary / Obama rift becoming increasingly irreconcilable within the Democratic Party and leading to either a third, dark-horse Democratic candidate of the non-Edwards variety, or Democratic voter apathy owing to the selection of either Hillary or Obama. Regardless, its all still up in the air. The best thing we can hope for is a real nasty slug-fest in the Democratic primary.

Correction
You are absolutely correct about my stance on the Military Commission bill though. For one big reason... IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! It strips habeas corpus from American citizens and gives the President the unconstitutional authority to pick up and indefinitely imprison an AMERICAN on just his whim alone. Do you agree with picking fellow Americans up because of a mere accusation and not allow them to know the charges against them or have an opportunity to defend themselves? Is that ok with you buddy? (sarcasm intended). Well, it's not ok with me. And if you agree with this, you are joining the ranks of other traitors who have defecated all over our Constitution.

This is the same exact kind of legislation that Hitler enacted in Nazi Germany. Do you realize that? Not many there either understood the ramifications.

WAKE UP, MAN.

differences

Here are some differences between
Republican/Conservative and Dem-Liberal

Pro Life Pro abortion
Anti Islamofascist Pro appeasement
Pro tax cut Pro higher taxes
Pro conservative judges Pro liberal judges
Pro America Anti-American

No! I don't see myself voting for one of there's

Bruce Has a Point
I hate to say this (I really do), but can anyone disagree that Bill Clinton was a more conservative president (tax cuts, welfare reform, balanced budget, NAFTA) than Bush I or II. Yeah, I know that he had a very conservative congress from 1994-2000 helping him along, but the record stands for itself. You could make the arguement that he was socially liberal, but most social issues are ultimately decided by the supreme court and Bush II did get two conservatives on there with no other new justices in the near future. I think its time for Hillary (and her husband) to get back in the White House. She's by far the most hawkish of the Democrats, we already know where she stands on economic issues (and its not that horrible) and (this is key) she's a she. Could there be any time in history where it is more in our interest to elect a woman as President. Imagine for a second the reaction from those backwards idiots in the Middle East when they find out that the leader of the free world is a woman. Talk about forcing them to confront their own backwards culture. It will be huge. I have never voted for a Democrat in my entire life, but I have every intention of supporting Hillary all the way to the White House in 2008.

To The Big Mick
"The first JOB Libby OF THE CONSTITUTION is to PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE!!!!" What screwed up American History class did you learn that from? The first job of the constitution is to keep the governments hands off our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. People even questioned the lack of verbage about security in the constitution at the time it was written to which Ben Franklin responded (I'm paraphasing here) "Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither." Stop posting crazy rants with made-up words on TH and go pick up a paperback copy of 1776.

HUNTER 2008

Republican voters still get to decide who their nominee will be. Money only buys elections when people act like sheep. If 80% of Republicans are indeed seeking a conservative, we can nominate one. We can nominate Duncan Hunter. The money players won't like it and are trying to convince us only Rudy, Romney, or McCain can win. Hogwash. 49% of people will never vote for Hillary. Only 60% voted last time and turnout was the difference. My belief is Rudy would push turnout down. There might even be a third party, splitting the vote. Give Americans a chance to vote for a candidate who WILL secure the border and watch what happens to turnout. Americans want their government to fulfill it's most basic responsibility.

The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.

http://www.gohunter08.com

Matthew: I've got news for you
You call yourself a Democrat, but judging by your post I'd call you a conservative.

Welcome abord.


"Aboard", of course
You don't have to be illiterate -- or a poor typist -- to be conservative.

LOL


Mr Bartlett
It's not that you were misunderstood last time you walked this little yippy dog around the block.

It's that you were disagreed with.

I disagree with both your premises: that a Republican can't win in 2008, and that Hillary Clinton would govern, for a Democrat, in the most conservative way.

Clinton with a Democrat Congress would run roughshod over the economy, allowing taxes to jump back up starting in 2010, probably raising the marginal rate on higher-income taxpayers, and instituting some unacceptable version of Hillarycare. All she needs is a simple majority in both houses to get legislation she'd be willing to sign.

She would also respond with pointless weakness to all challenges from abroad. Count on Tomahawk missile strikes, attacking some nation's evil-tempered dirt somewhere, about once a year.

If you really think a Republican can't win in 2008, you'd better be contributing every cent you can to the Republicans in Senate races. Our only, and most realistic, hope with any Democrat in the White House is a Republican brake in the Senate.

The last time we had a Democrat president and a Democrat Congress was when Jimmy Carter was in office. Double-digit inflation, double-digit interest rates, top marginal tax rate of 70%, gas shortages, the endless hostage situation in Tehran, Desert One, and the mighty American response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: the boycotting of the Moscow Olympics in 1980. THAT showed them Commie b@stards.

Silly calculation
I remind myself that Bartlett's area of expertise is economics, so he sails in unfamiliar waters when he writes outside of that topic. This, however, is absolute and utter nonsense. Hillary has been posing as a centrist for 3 or 4 years now and she always exposes her true leftist heart when speaking to small private audiences. He has apparently swallowed her disingenuous act. Hillary is not the most conservative of the democrats. Hillary is the same dedicated leftist who attempted to socialize health care. She recently made a remark that she wanted to take the oil companies' recent record profits and spend them on some pet program the details of which I can't recall. That is about as far from conservative as you can get, although it is fairly close to Stalinist.

We're nearly 18 months out, and it is insanely counter-productive to speak of "cutting a deal." There is no deal worth a shred of our energy. Save your resources for a better option.

"there you go again"
Bartlett says, "However, if the Republican Party loses everyone except religious zealots, gun nuts, anti-tax extremists and pro-life absolutists, then it is not going to win any national elections. That’s not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of the views of those I just listed; it’s simple math."

So, Bartlett thinks that core members of the conservative Republican base are "zealots," "nuts," "extremists," and "absolutists," but this is not a comment of the rightness or wrongness of their views. Bartlett has been suffering from a severe case of Bush Derangement Syndrome for several years now. He began with some legitimate criticisms of Bush's "big goverenment" philosophy, but progressed to BDS, and from BDS he now is bashing core members of the GOP base.

Yes, Mr. Bartlett, the GOP cannot hope to win if it only has the support of its base. But neither can the GOP win by deliberately bashing its base.

You seem to be urging conservative GOP voters to forfeit their influence within the GOP for the sake of a quixotic quest of having a voice among the Dems through their supprt of a "conservative" like Hillary. What a ridiculous, risible proposal! (not that I am commenting on the rightness or wrongness of it).

It is completely disingenuous to bash Bush's "big government conservatism" and then two years later turn around and virtually endorse the author of "Hillary care." At least, in your anti-Bush mode, you could have been charitably construed to be a "principled conservative." Now it is clear that you are neither principled nor conservative.

Don't forget!!!


VOTE ON THIS COLUMN!

One dinky check mark!!

Let's send THIS Bozo a message he won't forget this time!


Woffy
Feel free to remind everyone that Clinton happened to be President during the .com BOOM that funneled tons of cash into federal coffers. It wasn't any policy he instituted, he was just smart enough to not screw it up.

So give me a break when you talk about how fiscally conservative President Clinton was.

(Note: This is NOT a defense of the current President as he far from conservative as others have noted here)

Bruce the Backtracker?
If you want to read authoritative material about why 2008 is NOT "shaping up as a Democratic year," then come read my commentary (click on my name above). With Hillary's unfavorability nearing the 50% mark -- and with Obama way behind Hillary -- well, Bruce is blowing smoke at us. He said on Laura Ingraham's show what a peachy President Bill had been. Yesterday, I explained in a few words why Bill had been an awful President. Hint: if Bill had done his job, it's a lot less likely that 9/11 and the terrible recession and lots of other bad things would have happened. As for 2008, it's always bad form to wave a white flag prematurely. Come visit and leave happy.

steve
ambridge, pa

Defeatist Bartlett Is Pathetic
I did not misunderstand the first column of the defeatist and pathetic Mr. Bartlett arguing that we Republicans should consider supporting Hillary Clinton because it appears that 2008 will be a Democratic year. I understood that column quite well and posted my caustic comments attacking it.

Mr. Bartlett's second column is just as bad. I disagree that there are better and worse Democrats. Each one of them, if elected, will pursue socialist, appeasement policies that will be very, very bad for the country. One Democrat may be a bit worse than another, but it is not a diference that makes for a distinction.

What Republicans should be doing is to chart a course for victory in 2008. The Democrats offer nothing justifying their election; and Mr. Bartlett offers nothing to justyify his being published on Townhall.com.

What difference does it make?
"However, if the Republican Party loses everyone except religious zealots, gun nuts, anti-tax extremists and pro-life absolutists, then...."

it will have become a mirror image of the Democratic party.

Which it already is in substance, so why not go for the gusto and embrace the truth?

The problem with your math, Bruce, is that you are still stuck in the belief that only a Democrat or a Republican can win. But what we are seeing here is the beginning of the death throes of the two party system. Madison warned against the dangers of faction, and the 20th Century was an object lesson in them, made even worse by the fact that we granted to the two factions the power to control the contest and thereby keep others out.

If the Democrats have to fight for votes by pretending to be conservatives, they have already admitted defeat in terms of their message. Bush and the Republicans in Congress have already shown that they are no different from the Democrats when it comes to big government, welfare for the wealthy, or ignoring the problems in Social Security. We are just one step, or one major catastrophe, away from a total meltdown.

Hate
"We want the most liberal son of a b!tch we can get in there. We want those liberal bastards to totally screw up the country, the economy, and everything."

Lemme ask you one question: Why do you want to drive this country down such a Dark Road? Why do you hate America so much?


Word Choices Tell The Story
Bartlett may be not many things, but I'll tell you one thing he is; Intellectually dishonest.

In the article above he states -
**
..if the Republican Party loses everyone except religious zealots, gun nuts, anti-tax extremists and pro-life absolutists, then it is not going to win any national elections. That’s not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of the views..."
**

Let's look at his choice of terms - "zealots", "nuts", "extremists", "absolutists"... and THEN he says "That's not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of the views..." Yeah, right - and when I call you a Godless heathen, effeminate pacifist, nanny state, baby killer it's not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of those positions - puhleeeeze!

How can this guy think he'd be taken at all seriously? He really showed where he stands on these positions and blew whatever cover he may have previously enjoyed.

Bartlett's a student
at the Pelosi-Reid Institute of Strategy.

He's already learned lesson #1: Declare defeat, then cut and run.


To BrianR
I like it

Agree and disagree
I agree it's likely a Democrat will win, if only because Republicans have governed like Democrats. I don't agree Hillary will mimic a Conservative. If her administration is Conservative, it's only because her own party won't let her get away with as much as she'd like to. It's probably best the Republicans are wiped out next year. Serves them right for undermining freedom in this country. It astounds me that Conservatives think this war on terror can be won, and that is sufficient reason for supporting Republicans. These people in the Middle East have been fanatically religious for centuries and these's no defeating that with military might. Bartlett states - "The price of purity is political powerlessness". I think that is incorrect. Bush has certainly not been "pure". He attempted to be all things to all people and it has failed. We need purity in politics. That is, an ideology, that is rooted in an absolute morality and metaphysics, and that is not Conservatism, or Liberalism.

But Hillary Could Do So Much
BB sure got the "juices flowing" and thats very good for us. It gives us a chance to make some of our latent arguements.

Yes, like SUN TZU, Dems know how, and are willing
to use their enemys strengths against him. Conservative Principals will keep Republicans from voting on election day if a pro choice candidate heads the Republican ballot, blinding themselves to the fact that by doing so they are
assuring the election of a "Democrat pro choice
candidate" with all the attendant damage that will do.

So "Stand on Principal" urge has been satisfied.

Democrats have no such "hang-ups". "Yellow Dog Democrat" is a well earned title; they will vote for a "yellow Dog" if that is their only choice.
The last thing on their minds would be standing on principal to the detriment of their party.
You just witnessed that in the 06 election which was not won by the Dems but "Conceded on Principal" by Republicans standing on principal.

Few were more disapointed in the timidity shown by the Republicans while they enjoyed the ultimate Political Dream of controlling the Presidency and both Houses. Never has there been such a squandere oppurtunity. Yes they did some
really great changes that will impact our Country for decades and we appreciate that.
BUT,
what happened with Spent Nuclear Waste which lies literally insecure at a hundred locations East of the Mississippi where the most People are at risk. Six years later, Yucca Mountain sits empty while they argue that the "Packaging of the stuff" may not be good for the required 10 Thousand Years" and whether it can be shipped through Indian Reservations in pink tank cars or
heliotrope or something!

How 'bout oil drilling? Just this week, even though they no longer control the House or Senate
they get around to permitting more oil drilling!
Such speedy, heroic action! ANWAR! Move over a
mile, Caribou and Mosquitos????? Not this bunch!!

Construction of refineries on some off shore islands and the improvement of Rail Freight Systems which move a ton of frieght with 10% of the energy that trucks now use. Reduce Pollution, anyone?

And Construction of new Nuclear power plants. Does anyone really think that the Nuclear Plants we would build today would increase the danger above the levels of the 50 year old plants which already cover the world?

Immigration, discribed by Anglo-Saxon four letter words! Did any of them give a thought to whats good for the country? We all know that adding illiterates to the population in the hi tech age is counter productive; even adding them to the World Population is a negative! Surely the Republican Administration wasn't concerned
that they would be blamed and not enjoy the Hispanic votes in the future. With their MSM PR
machine, the Dems got 96% of the black vote, even
though a Republican Administration Freed the Black Slaves and passed the Civil Rights Act by voting for passage in larger numbers than the Dems!

When Clinton Halved the Military, Bob Dole wimps
did nothing, leaving more Law Enforceme personnel
in the state of New York than Soldiers to defend the Country. And yet, two or three years ago the Democrat in Congress and most Military commanders were screaming that we didn't have
enough Troops. Republicans did nothing to capture
the moment.

Two, Repeat, Two Vetoes in six years? This would be laughable, if not so pathetic. Sounds like GW
is more Bureaucrat than President. Didn't I read that of 35 hundred employees of the State Department, only 7 had been fired in ten years?

Yes, I am becomming more convinced that I and half of America have mistaken George w. Bushs'
stubborness for courage! That said, I am not in favor of giving up the rung on the ladder we have been able to defend and hope to double down
on those gains.

Finally, back to BBs point! Since the Republicans have demonstrated little or no "Stones" I am sure that with 38% of the Dems believing Bush knew about 9/11 in advance,
with 53% not knowing who the Vice President, the Secretary of State, or the name of any of their local Congressmen or Senators, those voting ignorant, dedicated MSM consuming Dems would find no fault with "More Stones than the Republicans have demonstrated" Hillary if and when she decided to "do all of the above"

Yes BB, we should vote for
Hillary because she is conservative and will do all of the below things that I look for in a President or Congress-person:

1. Appoint strict constructionist judges.
2. Maintain a strong military and take no guff from others.
3. Reduce spending and elliminate departments not covered by the Constitution.
4. Reduce taxes.
5. Control the border and elliminate illegals that are here. Eliminate anchor babies.
6. Get out of the UN.

All of this is just a starter, you guess she will do all or most of these things?

Correction
Thats 35 Thousand State Dept employees with 7
fired.

The real fallacy of this absurd column
is that if a conservative like Fred Thompson, Tancredo, or Duncan Hunter gets the GOP nomination -- especially Thompson -- he will absolutely clean the clock of whoever the Dems put up.

This whole column is based on the false predicate that the candidate will be Rudy McRomney.

And it's obvious from Bartlett's phrasing and slurring of conservative factions ("gun nuts") that to him the idea of a conservative candidate is as odious, if not more so, than anything the Dems can field.

This guy is worse than a RINO; he's a GOP traitor.


This article
is quite dumb.

BrianR
This idiot is actually suggesting we vote for the commie Hitlery!!! UNBELIEVABLE. And the fact that he could use the term "conservative" in the same sentence as Hitlery is beyond belief.

What is this guy doing writing for TownHall???

RickV
So by your logic we should just lay down and let the terrorists do what they do best and take it. You go first. So what if they have been doing it for thousands of years? They either reform or die off. The choice is theirs. They are the only major religion to never ever have a reformation. It's long past time.

P.S. RickV
The Japanese were doing what they were doing for thousands of years as well.

thebigmick
Mick:
“You make my point for me--You say we shouldn't fear Liberals then claim you are against Hate Crime Legislation--SO WHO'S PUSHING IT LIBBY??? -If even YOU think it is a threat, then HOW can you say COMMIEQUEERS AREN'T a threat????”

Liberty:
You need to lay off the sauce, Mick, because you’re making no sense whatsoever. You really should go read my post again, because it looks like you badly misunderstood.

I think people like the author of this article and much of the media is attempting to make us so fearful that someone like Hillary will be elected that we lose sight of what is happening in our own Party. That’s why I said we shouldn’t be worrying about the liberals. It was in light of the election.

Now, to the Hate Crimes legislation. I’m not sure what you’re talking about, Mick. I have never said anything on this board to indicate that I am in favor of this legislation. Just the opposite. As I said before, I have asked people to call their Congressmen to ask them to vote against it. I have also posted how such Hate Crime legislation has been used in other countries to shut down free speech. So, your implication is totally unfounded and out of line.


Mick:
“And who said a DAMN thing about the UN, Internationalists or One World---I don't give a DAMN about them--I'm AGIN em--but if you think THEY are CURRENTLY more to be feared then the Ragheads just arrested for trying to attack New JERSEY then you haven't got a BRAIN in your HEAD Libby--"It's a conspiracy man, it's all a conspiracy."
The first JOB Libby OF THE CONSTITUTION is to PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE!!!!”

Liberty:
I agree with your last statement. I also agree that it was me that was out of line in lumping you in with the other pro-UN globalist traitors. My apologies.

As far as the “ragheads” that attacked NY, I totally agree that we should rip them to shreds. However, that is not why we went into Iraq, Mick. Did you know we passed legislation in 1998 to overthrow Iraq and cause a regime change?

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/iraq/libact103198.pdf

9-11 was just used as an excuse to execute this plan. We still haven’t gone after the terrorists responsible for 9-11.

Mick:
“The RAGHEADED ISLAMANAZIS are a THREAT to ME and MINE--if you aren't HELPING me KILL them, you are HELPING THEM kill MY kids.
To Hell with you and your conspiracy theories--that AIN'T Conservatism--by THAT logic Ronald Reagan was a "one world interventionist" for KNOWING that the Soviet Union was "an Evil Empire" and SUCCESSFULLY bringing it down!!”

Liberty:
What conspiracy are you talking about? Are you speaking about the well-documented proof that a North American Union is being created? Or, are you speaking about the fact that our Constitution is nearly totally disregarded? Or, are you talking about the fact that the President of the Council on Foreign Relations has openly stated that he thinks the U.S. should cede its sovereignty to world government? Which conspiracy, Mick? I look forward to your answer.

Ronald Reagan didn’t find it necessary to invade Russia to bring it down, did he? No. By the way, I’m not so sure it’s brought down. It appears to be reviving now, doesn’t it? Once KGB, always KGB.

Wow...
"The price of purity is political powerlessness"

Um, yeah. Hmmm, let's see:

If one simply stands on principal, that may be true. But combine ideological purity with unbending will, and it is wholly wrong.

Bolsheviks - politically pure, took power.
Nazis - ditto.
Khmer Rouge - ditto.
North Vietnam - ditto.
Mao - ditto.
alQaida - ditto.

Okay, not the nicest bunch of guys, but effective, nonetheless.

The firebreathers on both sides in the Civil War here were pretty effective at gaining power, too.

Purity of vision and strength of will is VERY tough to beat. Purity of vision and utter passivity (a GOP hallmark if ever there was one) is very easy to beat.

Bartlett has some good points
The thought of actually voting for Hillary Clinton is gag-inducing, and I don't expect to do so. Nonetheless, at least some of what Bruce Bartlett says makes sense to me. Unless the Republicans get their act together-- and in such a way to appeal to mainstream voters, not just their hard-core base-- they may be doomed to defeat. Moreover, even for a "gun nut" and "anti-tax extremist" like me (well, anyway, I support gun rights and oppose higher taxes) the Republican field is unappealing. Except for Ron Paul, whose principles and character I admire, but I don't think he can win either the nomination or the general election. I don't want to vote for "big-government conservative" and First Amendment foe John McCain. Or for any religious conservative who thinks that this is officially a "Christian nation" and separation of church and state is a "myth" (thereby excluding me, a nonbeliever, from full citizenship). Or for anyone who thinks the threat of "Islamo-Nazism" or illegal immigration justifies tearing the Bill of Rights to shreds.

As I said, I can't see actually voting for Hillary. But if it turns out a choice between her and any of the above (except Paul) I might "throw away my vote" on the Libertarian Party candidate, or stay home. No, I don't think the Republicans and Democrats are just the same, indistinguishable from each other-- but this time they might come out equally bad in different ways, like a "choice" between cancer and AIDS.

Hillary, a Conservative !
If Hillary Clinton were actually the person she portrays herself to be she would, in fact, be the most conservative Democratic presidential candidate. In truth, she, like most liberals and Democrats will do and say anything to gain office to take our great country further into socialism. The truth is not in them and the press is complicit.
People who do not understand this are unimformed, idiots, or the downtrodden who want the government to do everything for them.
Which one are you Mr. Prager?

Libert: You are right!
Don't forget to vote on this SUCKY column, man!


LOL: It'll be interesting to
see if Bartlett's next column is another attempt to rationalize THIS column, and whether he'll manage to dig himself in even DEEPER.

Though that's kinda hard to envision.


Hey Brian..
...if Rudy can do it...just maybe Mr. Bartlett can.

rubbish
While WAY OFF topic, I can't let this PhillopSpace nonsense go by without a reality check:

"With their MSM PR
machine, the Dems got 96% of the black vote, even
though a Republican Administration Freed the Black Slaves and passed the Civil Rights Act by voting for passage in larger numbers than the Dems!"

The Civil Rights battles of the 60s were not about Democrats vs. Republicans. They were about Southerners vs. the rest of the country.

Here's the vote tally by party and region:

House:
Dems - For: 153, Against: 91 62.7% for.
Reps - For: 136, Against: 35 79.5% for.

Senate:
Dems - For: 46, Against: 22 67.6%
Reps - For: 27, Against: 06 81.8%

Ahhh. You say the above supports PhillopSpace? Wrong.

Southern House:
Dems - For: 7, Against: 87 7.4%
Reps - For: 0, Against: 10 0.0%

Northern House:
Dems - For: 145, Against: 09 94.2%
Reps - For: 138, Against: 24 85.2$

Southern Senate:
Dems - For: 1, Against: 20 4.8%
Reps - For: 0, Against: 01 0.0%

Northern Senate:
Dems - For: 45, Against: 1 97.8%
Reps - For: 27, Against: 5 84.4%

The backbone of today's Republican party is the conservative south. Keeping the vote tallies above in mind, I would strongly advise any conservative or Republican not to draw attention to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

This Act burned the GOP for a reason. Consider the choice that black voters faced in 1964. The Republicans offered up one of the only 5 senators to vote against the act as their nominee. The Democrats chose the liberal Democratic architects of the Act - LBJ & HHH. This is what gave the GOP a black eye for African-Americans.

Something happened to the once "Solid South" after 1964. That something was not a mass conversion from liberalism to conservatism. The transformation was from conservative Democrats to conservative Republicans.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act is not a friendly topic for conservatives or Republicans.

gentlemanscholar
What a politely erudite blast directed toward moronic drivel. Where can I read more of your comments? contact me:
storiesallaroundus@yahoo.com

It may be whacky
Maybe it is he that is “misunderstimating" what liberals are, or the progressive agenda is; rather than being misunderstood himself. He is trying to marry the principle of bottom line with some conservative "survivalist" impression he sees in his mind. I don't know that there is a cure for that, but try to identify the truth side in Hillary -- if you can find it. (it rarelay reveals its true intent)

rush to judgement
Here is a thought for our astute political commentator. Suppose some conservatives got behind her (for some reason) as the lesser of evils. She comes out with a healthy, read "impressive", madate for "her agenda". You have seen how dems liberal leftists interpret election results, HAVEN't you. (maybe not) It pays to look ahead or vote with your feet.

Defeatist
We can't win....blah, blah, blah.

Doomage.....blah, blah, blah.

It'll never work.... blah, blah, blah.

Saint Hillary... blah, blah, blah.

I used fewer words and made about as much sense.




Venom-mongers prove Bruce's premise :)
1. The vicious posters tend to support Bruce's fundamental premise: 2008 will be a Democrat year. How so? Venom in large does not market well.

2. The vicious attacks are by single-issue partisans who make a Republican or center-right coalition less likely to win.

3. The fundamental premise of the attacks is that anything can be accomplished if only we all wish hard enough - as these people proved with the anti-immigrant issue in California & Congressional elections.

4. If the strategists of defeat cooled their anger long enough to think, they should examine Bruce's premise, and ask why it may be true, and what could change it.

5. The fractious demand for 100% True Believers on each issue will make Republicans as irrelevant as Libertarians -- and persuade real-world conservatives to examine a Plan B to make the best of a poor situation they see coming down on them.
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