Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, May 01, 2007
Bruce Bartlett :: Townhall.com Columnist
Conservatives for Hillary?
by Bruce Bartlett
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


As each day passes, it becomes increasingly clear that the Democrats will win the White House next year. It’s not quite 1932, but it’s getting close to a sure thing. All the energy is on their side, they are raising more money from more contributors, and there is little if any enthusiasm for any of the Republican candidates—even among Republicans.

Of course, one can never rule out the ability of the Democrats to seize defeat from the jaws of victory. But sometimes the trend in one party’s direction is so strong that even the grossest incompetence can’t keep it from winning. I think 2008 is shaping up as that kind of year for the Democrats.

If I am right, conservatives are going to have to make an important decision at some point. Do they go down with the sinking Republican ship or do they try and have some meaningful influence on the next president by becoming involved in the Democratic race?

I’m sure that the first reaction of most conservatives will be to say that any involvement in the Democratic Party is unthinkable. Many view it as the party of treason and socialism. They could no more involve themselves in Democratic politics than a God-fearing Christian would consider working with Satan just because it looked like he was going to win.

For those of you who feel this way, stop reading. There is nothing more in this column for you. But for those conservatives who don’t see the 2008 election as a race between good and evil, but merely a contest between rivals within the same league, I think there is a good case for participating in the Democratic nominating process.

Here’s why. Although all the Democratic candidates are more liberal than all of the Republicans, they are not all equally liberal. Among the Democrats, some are more to the right and others more to the left. It is a grave mistake to assume, as most conservatives do, that they are all equally bad and that it makes no difference whatsoever which one is elected.

To right-wingers willing to look beneath what probably sounds to them like the same identical views of the Democratic candidates, it is pretty clear that Hillary Clinton is the most conservative. John Edwards is the most liberal and Barack Obama is somewhere in between.

The hard-core right-wingers who kept reading past the point I told them to stop probably all think I’ve lost my mind by now. But remember, I am talking about the politics within the Democratic Party, not the nation as a whole. Moreover, at this stage of the nominating process, all of the candidates in both parties are appealing mainly to their bases. These are well to the left of the country among Democrats and well to the right among Republicans.

It is in this context that one must evaluate Sen. Clinton’s position. Given the views of the Democratic base and the enormous unpopularity of the Iraq War, it is a real act of courage for her to steadfastly refuse to say her vote for the war was wrong. Of course, like all Democrats and most Americans she opposes the war today and favors a rapid pull-out.

That is why the easy thing for Sen. Clinton to do would be to just thrown in the towel, admit her vote was wrong, and move on. And that’s why it is an act of courage for her to refuse to do so. If conservatives weren’t so blinded by their hatred for her, this would be obvious.

On economics, it is reasonable to assume that Sen. Clinton’s policies would not be altogether different from Bill Clinton’s. This is not a bad thing. On trade, his record was outstanding and on the budget was far better than George W. Bush’s. While Clinton raised taxes in 1993, it should be remembered that he cut them in 1997, including a cut in the capital gains tax. On regulatory policy, Clinton was no worse than the current administration and probably better on net.

Democrats know all this, which is why our most liberal pundits, like Bob Kuttner, are attacking Sen. Clinton for being a clone of her husband on economics and attacking her support for “Rubinomics,” named after former Treasury Secretary Bob Rubin. Its essential elements are a commitment to deficit reduction and globalization—which are both anathema to the Democratic Party’s liberal base. It wants a hard-line against imports to save jobs and an expansive fiscal policy to pay for a wide range of new social programs.

At some point, politically sophisticated conservatives will have to recognize that no Republican can win in 2008 and that their only choice is to support the most conservative Democrat for the nomination. Call me crazy, but I think that person is Hillary Clinton.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Bruce Bartlett is a former senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis of Dallas, Texas. Bartlett is a prolific author, having published over 900 articles in national publications, and prominent magazines and published four books, including Reaganomics: Supply-Side Economics in Action.

Be the first to read Bruce Bartlett's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

©Creators Syndicate
Conservatives for Hillary?
If I am right, conservatives are going to have to make an important decision at some point

And if you're wrong?

Hillary for President?
It is too early to give up on the Republican Party. We have better candidates and public opinion will change as the surge starts to show results. I refuse to believe that a white flag Democrat can win the national election. Pulling out of Iraq before Iraq is stabilized would: 1) result in the murder of millions of Iraqis, 2) give Iraq to Iran and/or al Qaeda, 3) destabilize the rest of the middle east including nations who helped us in the war on terror (they will never trust us again), and 4) the terrorist would grow much stronger and we would be fighting them at home.

But it does make sense to support Hillary in the primary, just in case. There is no way I would vote for a Democrat in the National election.
Ken

Bartlett is no conservative
He is a secular liberal. Any Dem would be a disaster for the country, stacking the courts with activist judges who will impose the policies of the extreme wing of the Dems long after the voters have tossed out their party.

Bartlett
Your way to early with your assumptions! No true Conservative will ever compromise with Liberal Socialism in any way! Besides, if Fred Thompson runs, he will blow them all out of the water!

Goshawk
Suppose the socialist is a Republican (McRomniani)? Will conservatives compromise?

I suppose the only difference between Clinton and McRomniani is a matter of lubricant.

Hillary The Conservative, by Bartlett
A howling good point if it were only half true and we were in 1950. Hillary "appears" as the most conservative on the days when she is running the middle, but no democrat is any more to the left than Hillary Clinton, a fact which she will proudly demonstrat if she wins a general election. She is smart enough to stifle her Maxine Waters opinions because she seeks unusual power, and wants to fool the sheeple long enough to attain the office.

Bartlett is a Contrarian
And I'm glad he does it.

Principle versus Reality
Fighting versus Giving In

TWO THUMBS UP, BARTLETT
This is the column of the year (I know it's just May) for townhall. Bruce, you're my new hero.

The Plumber
NO!

The Clintons are thugs and that tops all
check out my anti-Hillary web site

http://www.1984arkansasmotheroftheyear.com

also, anyone who believes Hillary on
anything she says is a sucker. The Clintons' view on the issues is moot because the Clintons are psychopaths who are in it for the Clintons. Who cares if Hillary is microscopically more hawkish on Iraq? She used to practically be a member of the PLO back in the 1970's.

As for domestic policy, she runs as a centrist and will govern like a Marxist.

The GOP should break with Bush on Iraq
I'm more than old enough to remember the 1968 election. Back then, the Democrat president, Lyndon Johnson, had taken the country into the highly unpopular Vietnam War. The GOP challenger, Nixon, promised to end that war.

The Democratic nominee for President, Vice President Hubert Humphrey, was unable to break with his President on the Vietnam war until too late, and it nearly destroyed his campaign. From the conventions onward, Nixon was ahead of Humphrey by double-digit points. Until October 1968, when Humphrey finally bit the bullet and broke with Johnson on the war. He closed most of the gap with Nixon but still lost the election in an extremely tight race. Had Humphrey broken with Johnson on the war much sooner, he might have won.

Today, the roles of the two parties are reversed. If the GOP is to have a chance of saving anything in 2008, it has to stop this slavish support for Bush's Iraq War policy. One can be strongly anti-terrorist, strongly anti-jihadist, even strongly against radical Islam itself, without supporting how Bush has chosen to conduct this particular war. Don't believe me? Try listening to some critics of Bush from the RIGHT: Diana West. Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch. William F. Buckley. George Will.

The GOP should formulate a strong anti-jihadist foreign policy but it MUST finally publicly admit how much Bush has screwed up the Iraq War, and how badly the Bush Administration overestimated the threat from the Saddam regime. It's far too late to try to defend that disappointing track record. Continuing to carry Bush's water after the public has written him off will deliver the White House to the opposition party. Just like 1968.

Even worse than in 1968, we now have Presidential debates between the Democrat and Republican candidates as a matter of course. There is now so much known about Bush's failures on Iraq that any Republican candidate for President who attempts to defend Bush on Iraq is going to get clobbered in the debates by the huge amount of evidence the Democrat candidate will marshal. YOU CANNOT WIN THIS DEBATE ON IRAQ. Instead, punt and emphasize the other aspects of fighting Islamic radicalism.



Republicans already voted for a Democrat
> While Clinton raised taxes in 1993, it
> should be remembered that he cut them in
> 1997, including a cut in the capital gains
> tax. On regulatory policy, Clinton was no
> worse than the current administration and
> probably better on net.

In other words, George Bush is not a Republican, the leading contenders to replace him (McCain, Romney & Guillani) aren't either and to paraphrase Harry Truman, "given a choice between a Democrat and a Democrat, the people will pick the Democrat every time."

Bartlett is right that we shouldn't seek to support the craziest Democrat (as some idiots in the MassGOP did during the '06 Governor's race, giving us Deval Patrick rather than the Democrat who politically was to the right of the Republican candidate).

But that does not mean that we should abandon all hope. Repeat after me: Run Fred RUN!

0h, and remember one other thing: "Dewey Defeats Truman." Or that at this point in the '92 election, George Bush the Elder had something like a 92% popularity rating (in the spring of 1991) and went on to loose his re-election bid...

In 1991 the Republicans thought they would slide into an easy victory with the popularity of the recent war. In 2007 the Democrats think that they will slide into an easy victory with the unpopularity of the current war. Eighteen months is a long time and things do change....

Difference?
What's the difference between Hillary and most of the social cons who support Medicare Prescription Drugs and No Child Left Behind and other big government action? None. Won't vote for any of them.

I see only two fiscal conservatives, Ron Paul, who probably doesn't stand a chance in a left-leaning GOP, and possibly Fred Thompson, who isn't even running.

Hillary is the most conservative?
This should go a long way in describing to some how very much conservatives as a whole have lost their way.

We are told that George Bush is conservative. Who honestly believes he is? I mean... REALLY. How about a large number of Republicans in office? Think about it.

- We're back in UNESCO. The same organization that President Reagan so wisely extracted us from. Thanks a lot Dubya. This is where "No School to Work" comes from. The UN's very own indoctrination program for our children. Aren't you happy?

- Medicare drug bill. FDR couldn't have done any better. But wait, FDR was certainly not a conservative. No, he was a socialist.

- Tremendously expanded the size and scope of federal government. But wait just a minute. I thought limited constitutional government was the crux of conservatism. Oh, I forgot... we were convinced that we needed to overlook this aspect because of 9-11. An increase in the powers of the federal government needed to be increased to 'keep us safe'. What other aspects of the Constitution are we willing to put aside? Oh yes, there's more. How about habeas corpus, states' rights, the whole dang 4th amendment --- you're outta there. My, wouldn't our Founding Fathers and all the brave Americans who fought and died to preserve our Constitution be so proud of us that we crawled to the nearest corner and prayed to the government god when we got scared.

- Promotes the UN and its affiliates. I don't hear any talk of getting us out of these traitorous organizations. Do you? No, I hear things about our need to help the UN achieve the vision of its founders. Ever look at who these people were? Socialist central. I also hear about our need to enforce UN sanctions. BS!! Bottom line people, you know they want to grab our guns, right? Actually, the UN was setup as an organization for global government. WHY do you not hold our representatives' feet to the fire to get us out of this organization? Why do you so willingly accept our continued membership?

- Fiscal conservatism. Ok, how do you think the Republicans are fairing on this aspect of conservatism? Let's see, our debt is well over 8 TRILLION dollars now and the value of our dollar is falling dramatically. This look conservative to you?

- Personal privacy. "Sneak and peak"; warrantless, not to mention, unconstitutional surveillance of all types..... Is this conservative? Oh, I forgot, we needed to give up the 4th amendment so our all powerful government could 'keep us safe'.

Ok, I'm stopping now, but I think you get the point. Conservatives have somehow forgotten their principles and have allowed themselves to be co-opted as just watered down versions of BIG government "Rockefeller Republicans".

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." -- John Adams

Fred?
If you have to bring Fred back from the dead, abandon hope. Vote Hillary 08.

Why does Rupert Murdoch support Hillary?
The owner of the "fair and balanced" network. This should raise a red flag to you, folks.

"Hillary Clinton defended her warming relationship on Tuesday with Rupert Murdoch, the conservative media mogul. Commenting on Mr Murdoch's decision to host a fundraiser for her Senate-election campaign, Mrs Clinton said: "He's my constituent and I'm very gratified that he thinks I'm doing a good job.""
http://tinyurl.com/22cd69

‘Conservative’ Rupert Murdoch endorses Hillary Clinton
http://www.brookesnews.com/060611murdoch.html

Hustler
The problem with that, Hustler, is that HILLARY IS A COMMIE!!!!!!!!!!

Hilary Clinton
Her husband ran the same way when he ran and then when he got into office he was a SUPER LIBERAL. They can not be trusted. We have a small enough Army now, if she gets in we'll have none.

THE 2008 ELECTION
BRUCE, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG. THE POLLS SHOW THAT THE REPBULICANS HAVE MUCH STRONGER CANIDATES THAN DO THE DEMS. HILLARD IS HAS FAR TOO MUCH BAGGAGE, OMAMA IS TOO YOUNG,INEXPERIENCED AND TOO LIBERIAL, AND EDWARDS IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.. FRED THOMPSON IS NOT EVEN RUNNING, YET HE OUT POLLS THEM ALL..THIS COUNTRY IS STIL MOSTLY CONSERATIVE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MEDIA PRINTS AND PUSHES...PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF HIGH TAXES, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, HIGH GAS PRICES, AND THEY SEEK SECURITY. THE DEMOCRATS ARE WEAK ON DEFENSE, PRO ABORTION, PRO TAXES, PRO CUT AND RUN, PRO SAME SEX MARRIAGE, AND THEY HAVE NO VISION OR PLAN. WHILE CERTAINLY THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS, THE DEMS CAN DO NOTHING BUT WHINE, AND ACT LIKE CHILDREN..WE NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN UNITE ALL FACTIONS. NOT THE POWER GRABBERS.

Ron
Seeking 'security' and willingly giving up our liberty for said security, is exactly where conservatives took a distinct LEFT turn.

a vote for Hillary?
A vote for Hillary is a vote for the decline of America as a nation. Actually a vote for any democrat will signal the rise of radical Islam in america, and another terrorist attack on US soil. It is a matter of record that the Clinton view of terrorism is to do nothing. Clinton did nothing when the World trade center was first bombed in 1993. He did nothing when the USS Cole was bombed. He did nothing when US Embassies were attacked. He had Osama bin laden aqpprehended and refuse to capture him. It was the Clinton administration that reduced the size of the military, and left us unprepared for 9-11. It was Hillary that slandered Bush acnd accused him of allowing 9-11. Hillary's attitude of fighting terrorism is to "chat" with the terrorists, who are hoping for a democratic win. A democratic white house is a victory for radical Islam. We wkill have a major attck on US soil before the first 4 years are complete if she or any democrat gets into the white house. I am getting ready to pack my bags to leave the country, and go somewhere safer.

Not an option
The name of the game is survival of the way of life envisioned by the Founders in the Constitution, a document anathema to the "progressives" who regard it as archaic and irrelevant to the socialist paradise they envision. Socialism is the greatest danger we face from within, and we're getting there fast.

The greatest danger the country faces from without is radical Islam. This is a link to Joe Leiberman's speech to the Senate before the vote on the pull-out resolution:

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28062

Lieberman is one of the very few politicians who gets it right, is able to articulate his rationale, and gets MSM coverage, however grudgingly bestowed.

Meanwhile, Islamic children in their madrassas are being indoctrinated in the glories of suicide bombing, while our children are being taught moral inertia disguised as "tolerance" and mindless pacifism.

When the dangers from within are worsening the dangers from without, the idea of going with the flow, as Bartlett appears to suggest we do, is simply not an option.



This Is Pure Idiocy
Mr. Bartlett's piece is pure idiocy, perhaps the worst I have seen in some time from a supposed conservative. The Republicans are not sinking. Too many Republicans, however, are being wusses sitting on their rear ends and letting the Democrats run wild. The Democrats are showing their socialist tax-and-spend and treasonous cut-and-run true selves. This is the time to be on the counter-attack. The American peoiple did not vote for what the Democrats are doing.

I live in New York and have not been able to escape all the news about Hillary Clinton. To put it succinctly, Hillary Clinton is a committed left winger. Don't kid yourselves otherwise. At times, she may say some words of moderation and may vote a moderate position, but she is no moderate much less conservative.

If Mr. Barlett is going to write demoralized drivel such as this piece, then ban him from Townhall.

This column is certainly different!
I won't be voting in the Dem primary, but Hillary at least has experience and gravitas.

HUNTER 2008

Republican voters still get to decide who their nominee will be. Money only buys elections when people act like sheep. If 80% of Republicans are indeed seeking a conservative, we can nominate one. We can nominate Duncan Hunter. The money players won't like it and are trying to convince us only Rudy, Romney, or McCain can win. Hogwash. 49% of people will never vote for Hillary. Only 60% voted last time and turnout was the difference. My belief is Rudy would push turnout down. There might even be a third party, splitting the vote. Give Americans a chance to vote for a candidate who WILL secure the border and watch what happens to turnout. Americans want their government to fulfill it's most basic responsibility.

The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.

http://www.gohunter08.com

Keep thinking those thoughts!
As a liberal Democrat I'm pleased to see Bartlett conceding the election to my party. I hope more Republicans come to share his view.

However, I don't believe Republicans or conservatives should throw in the towel. Regardless of the war, you guys have all sorts of issues to win on--gay marriage, abortion, religion--some really hot button issues. Energize your base with a really heavy dose of opposition to gay marriage, some more anti-abortion court decisions, and a real effort to get Christianity back into politics and you'll do fine.

I'll even predict that the election will be nothing like 1932. It will be close--not 2000 close--but close, within several percentage points one way or the other. Your side has every chance to win--you know how to rilie the public up and play a number of cards that get out the vote. Here's a practical suggestion. Referenda on gay marriage helped boost your turnout in 2004. Get some more of these on state ballots. Do the same with school prayer. You'll get conservatives streaming to the polls, and my guys will have to work very hard to beat you.


Which type of 'Red' Under The Bed?
......and who's bed?

An absurd article of the first degree.

Bruce Bartlett is suggesting that American Republicans become an American political shade of 'red under the Democratic bed'.

The genre of his writing, particularly of his ludicrous appraisal of the values and political track record of Hillary Clinton (not to mention his crass pessimism for 2008), seems to suggest - to myself, a British outsider who has never heard of him - that he, himself, posting messages such as this on Townhall.com, has somehow managed to surreptitiously operate as the internationally accepted version of 'red', this time under the Republican bed.

Go back to your home Mr Bartlett, wherever that may be. I certainly do not think it is here.

Peter charnley (UK).

When pigs fly
Never, ever, under any conceivable circumstances would I vote for Hillary, no matter what her (stated pre-election) positions were. The woman's dishonorable, vicious, self-centered, vapid, and despite her publicity efforts to convince us otherwise, not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. She's unable to think on her feet, has done a miserable job of representing gullible New Yorkers, her high-handed and secretive efforts to foist a government health care proposal on us was a disaster, her back-stabbing of those who served her showed the real Hillary time after time. Why is Bruce ignoring all that? How stupid does he think the rest of us are?

The Hillary option
Bartlett is right. As a conservative who is tired of incompetence (the administration) and mendacity (all the talk-show shills who spin for the administration) I would certainly consider voting for Hillary. I suspect much of the emotional/hysterical opposition to her arises from the simple fear of women in leadership (not a coincidence that the 'GOP base' attends churches where women are excluded from leadership -- the same fear-of-women mentality).

I don't understand how
conservatives can possibly win if the pundocracy is ready to throw in the towel a full year and a half before the election. Now even the conservative media is turning on the Republicans. Sounds like a self-fulling prohpesy to me. Well done. It's gonna be hard, let's just quit and vote Democrat. At least we will be ideological brethern when we do.I for one wish to retain my spine for the moment. Surrender yours if you must.

For those that remember the carnage the last time the Dems pulled a stunt like this (Viet Nam), think about the millions of Iraqis and other muslims that will die if we fail them by withdrawing and leaving them to their fate. Does our country know no shame?

Well, well ....
....a column by the Harry Reid of the right. I quote -- "no Republican can win in 2008 ....".

If this doesn't sound like Reid about the other war going on among people of this country, I don't know what does! Reid and the party of "American defeat" is exactly comparable to Bartlett’s efforts to form the party of "Republican defeat" in the ideological war being waged in this country. Repubs are fighting for the very continued existence of the free world and Bartlett says "give up". His alternative -- help elect the most conservative of the democrats! Bah, there is no such thing among those running today. Hillary is a socialist at best and is so far left of her husband that Billy (Lover boy) Clinton looks almost like a Rino by comparison. His (Billy boys) policies were ALL tempered by the Repub congress that forced him to govern way to the right of where he wanted to be (e.g. -- look at the first two years of his administration where he tried to force socialized medicine down our throats).

DEFEAT? NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!

Be an American and fight to the death if necessary, but never surrender in this war on terror or this war on ideology.
TBC Semper Fi

NO on Hillary
Any Republican is better than any Democrat. Hillary is VERY easy to vote against. Republicans are very timid lately - and I am puzzled by this because they don't have to be - but I do not want my children to live in a Stalinist state.

Very Provocative...
but Bill Richardson is the most Republican of the Democrats, not Hillary. But what are his chances?

Good points in this piece, but only two checks on the vote-meter because of it's depressing-ness...I know, that's probably not a real word, but somebody on TH just suggested I support Hillary, so who really cares anymore?

GUTLESS!
Mr. Bartlett,
I have NEVER read such a piece of GUTLESS DRIVEL! If that is how you feel, I suggest that you, Hitlery, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reed, Rosie O'Donnell and any other LIBERAL COWARDS out there charter a plane, fly to Paris, put on pink panties and hide under your bed. All the while shrieking in a high-pitched voice, "WE SURRENDER!".
GOOD DAY SIR!
J. Allen Frye

Are you crazy?!?!
The current republican frontrunner beats the current democratic frontrunner in every poll. If the election were held today, Guiliani would win by a wider margin than Bush did in the previous two elections. And you think republicans should concede now? The middle 40% of the country who decide elections are oblivious to the political tea leaves that have pundits so concerned. They're going to make up their minds at the last minute based on the individual candidates. The bottom line is that nobody likes Hillary, and lots of people like, respect, and could vote for Guiliani or Fred Thompson.

Why in the world
is Bartlet still on TH?

Dandy Don - No way
I stopped reading after I saw the headline. I just enjoyed the comments. This old boy wouldn't vote for Hillary even if I had a gun to my head.

Remember this on the GOP "it ain't over until the fat lady sings". Fred and Duncan would be a get team.

Is this a joke?
Alright, as a conservative who isn't all that thrilled with the current state of the Republican Party, I can understand looking for options in the Democratic Party. But Hillary? Alright, I love Bruce Bartlett's work. I found his book, "Imposter" to be one of the most important political books of recent years. I also agree with him that it is almost a 100% guarantee that the Democrats will win the White House in 2008.

I am among those who have said if Bill Richardson was nominated, I would indeed consider voting for him. Hell, I'll even take Biden, because it least he looks at the bigger picture on some issues. Hillary? Come on, there is almost no conservative case to vote for her, accept for the fact that she was a Goldwater girl before she got brainwashed in college. If there is a right winger insider of her, just itching to get out, she is doing a hell of a job hiding it.

Though one must say, if she was elected President, I think it would spawn a major conservaitve overhaul in the Republican Party, which could only be a good thing.

I like Giuliani, and I think he'd make a hell of a President. I'm not really sold on anyone else, and my vote in guaranteed to nobody. After voting for Bush twice, this time I am voting with my conscience. And everyone else bloody should as well.

Bartlett
Ever since you left the white house and turned against it you are moving away from conservatism and even republicanism. Soon, I expect you to be like Brock at Media Matters and become a full time slimer of the right.

Conservatives for Hillary
Given that the head Republican G,W, Bush hasn't the
backbone of a small mouse, and that thew defacto president, Karl the Rove, is a mental case, and that
Rudy Gulliani will not back our Bill of Rights (including the 2nd Amendment), and Mitt Rommney who
backed a socialist healthcare law, an McCain who is so full of himself that might explode who is worth backing.

BUT backing Ms Warmth requires hating America! She would be to America what Adolph Hitler was for Germany!

maybe we can pay for the bullet too
This is about as helpful as getting to choose between execution by a 45, 44 or a Glock. Every "moderate" vote by Hillary is a step down the primrose path to the Rose Garden where her socialism will be in full bloom.

Since you asked. . .
Ok - you're crazy.

The Achilles Heel of this column
is the presupposition that conservatives will cross over to vote for someone so inimical to their principles.

Typically, conservatives are more committed to principle than expediency, and less inclined to vote just for the "party".

The reason conservatives are finding it hard to back the current top 3 GOP candidates is that those people don't espouse conservative values.

So conservatives would act to support someone even FURTHER away from their principles?

Does that make any sense to anyone in the room?

Two salesmen on a beach...
Interesting analysis, conclusion exactly backwards. Republicans SHOULD get involved in the Democrats' selection of a candidate, and if possible, attempt to have the most extreme left-wingnut selected. Then the actual election will be won by the Republican candidate.

Ding dong
Umm, Hillary has seen America through the tinted glass of a limousine for the last 25 plus years. The only reason she comes across as someone who hasn't is because her speech writers have dabbled in the real world. If I had to default and pick a Demo to be president, it would likely be Bill Richardson. Not because I like him, but because he has the most experience of the Demo field.

I'm not saying Richardson is smart. He's a dolt. But so is the rest of the Demo field.

And if you think any Demo will roll back the budget, you are mistaken. It will only grow.

Had to log in and comment
Schitzo, capslock or not comments by Ron:

" THE 2008 ELECTION
BRUCE, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG. THE POLLS SHOW THAT THE REPBULICANS HAVE MUCH STRONGER CANIDATES THAN DO THE DEMS. HILLARD IS HAS FAR TOO MUCH BAGGAGE, OMAMA IS TOO YOUNG,INEXPERIENCED AND TOO LIBERIAL, AND EDWARDS IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.. FRED THOMPSON IS NOT EVEN RUNNING, YET HE OUT POLLS THEM ALL..THIS COUNTRY IS STIL MOSTLY CONSERATIVE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MEDIA PRINTS AND PUSHES...PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF HIGH TAXES, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, HIGH GAS PRICES, AND THEY SEEK SECURITY. THE DEMOCRATS ARE WEAK ON DEFENSE, PRO ABORTION, PRO TAXES, PRO CUT AND RUN, PRO SAME SEX MARRIAGE, AND THEY HAVE NO VISION OR PLAN. WHILE CERTAINLY THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS, THE DEMS CAN DO NOTHING BUT WHINE, AND ACT LIKE CHILDREN..WE NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN UNITE ALL FACTIONS. NOT THE POWER GRABBERS."

"Ron writes:
Bartlett is right. As a conservative who is tired of incompetence (the administration) and mendacity (all the talk-show shills who spin for the administration) I would certainly consider voting for Hillary. I suspect much of the emotional/hysterical opposition to her arises from the simple fear of women in leadership (not a coincidence that the 'GOP base' attends churches where women are excluded from leadership -- the same fear-of-women mentality)."

There are two Rons posting or Ron's got problems. Or perhaps he/she is a moderate, who is struggling with which principles will achieve dominance in his/her thought processes.



Does it matter?
Whether you get a Democrat or Republican in the White House won't change much if Congress is split and the filibuster blocks entitlement reform, tax reform, immigration reform, spending reform, defense appropriations, etc.

You can get the most conservative candidate (Ron Paul) in and it won't change hardly a thing because, "we the people" will re-elect the same Congressmen we have in their now in the majority of states.

Congress controls the legislation and that control means anything the President asks for has to go through Congress and get past the filibuster (budget can't be filibustered) or the RINO's if the GOP is in control number wise.

This nation has to hit bottom first before the voters will stop electing Congressmen who continue us down the path of socialism. Remember that as bad as the President is on the border, it is Congress that is trying to pass the amnesty bills that will give him what he wants. It is Congress that has blocked social security reform. It is Congress that is saying they will let the tax cuts expire. It is Congress that is the biggest obstacle in Iraq (public statements that should have been fought out behind closed doors that give aid and comfort to the enemy in each broadcast). It is Congress that has blocked using our own oil reserves. It is Congress that has subsidized ethanol that is driving food prices up so much. It is Congress that puts "pork" on every bill.

It is Congress that is the enemy and even if we elect a good person to President, we will continue down the road to "crisis" and the President will get the blame.

Finally a conservative with a brain!!!
Great column.

This is the same wise advice I have been giving conservatives for quite some time.

One columnist on TH coming to their senses and recognizing the Bush administration has destroyed the conservative movement in this country represents millions of Americans woke up to this fact long ago. The drubbing republicans will receive in the 2008 elections will make conservatives long for 2006 when it was at least close and the democrats had to work hard to win.

Finally a conservative columnist on TH with a brain.

I'll level with TH readers
Some of you know I'm an academic. I'm telling my students that I think the Republicans will win the White House in 08, probably with a ticket headed by Romney, with Jeb Bush as VP.The election will be decided by about a 5% margin. Your side will not take back Congress, however.

Bartlett's far too gloomy. Don't buy into his analysis.

A Contary View
Bartlett's article is a serious one and conservatives need to pay attention to the points he raises. On my blog, you can ready a contrary point-of-view, because I don't believe the Democrats will win the critical election for President in 2008. In a few minutes, I'm going to begin part of a series on Barack Obama, whom I believe would be a disaster for the country. I'm going to say that Barack has accomplished what once seemed impossible: to make Hillary look good by comparison. If you'd like to participate directly or indirectly, come visit by clicking above on my name. Thanks.

steve

the big question

The question Brian Williams should have asked the Democratic candidates is: "Do you still believe in Santa Claus?" Democrats all seem to believe that they can fall over each other offering more nifty toys for the public -- no matter whether they've been naughty or nice -- and never worry about who's going to pay the bill. Republicans are not innocent in this regard, either.

Perhaps Bruce Bartlett should ask himself the same question before he endorses any jolly old elves or elfettes.

Unless entitlement spending is brought under control soon, federal politicians are going to have little latitude to endorse any giveaway programs. It'll be all they can do to scrape up the money to pay for the ones already in place.

Politicians can (and will) bloviate all they want on subjects sundry; pundits will, too. Why should reality matter? That's the place where we other saps have to live. But the green eyeshades people are going to have to fit into the scheme somewhere, eventually.

Conservatives For Hilary
I Find it ironic that this article appeared on MayDay.

Dems need to hope for a Republican win.
Until the threat of terrorism is totally gone, the Dems need to hope that a Republican stays in the White House. If a Dem gets in and another attack happens, this time on a Dems watch, and given all the defeatist hyperbole from the left, there could be a total meltdown of the Democrat party, in the offing. The only hope a Democrat President would have in staying in office for their full term is if a terrorist attack does not occur for the next four years. With the reductions in defense and overseas intelligence, and the open borders policy that is being discussed by the left, that "ain't gonna happen". If a terrorist takes down a major target under a Democrat President, there won't be a DNC in 2012.

Let's all just quit
You're right, Bruce. The Republicans should just give up. Let's get in the hot tub and open a vein.

I'd like to know how you're so positive the Republicans haven't a chance. The election isn't for over a year and neither party has announced a candidate yet. 2004 should have taught us that it's not over till it's over.

The Republicans may lose in 2008. But if we follow this plan of action they'll *definitely* lose.

Blast From The Past
The term "useful idiots" came to mind when I read this article!

Bartlett
Sound as if he has taken on Democrat thinking. Surrender now. All is lost. Cant fight it, give up, run away, run away...

No
Many of the comments above make sense. Bartlett has either lost it or is a Trojan horse. As noted above the election is a long way off and H.R.C. has the biggest noway in hell vote in the polls I have never seen - and the first election I remember was the FDR first term.

She did say her vote was a mistake
Hillary did say her Iraq war vote was a mistake, and like the rest of them, she blamed her "mistake" on the Bush administration:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/29/195654.shtml

What were you saying about an act of courage?

I think the conservative movement ...
has been invaded by conservatives in name only. Barlett's piece booms with wussy defeatism, and there isn't a TRUE conservative out there who willing accepts defeat in any shape or form.

By the way "LOADMASTER," I agree ... a Thompson-Hunter ticket would be the the top of the top.

have you been hanging upside down
too long, like moonbat rosie o...your guano has infected your brain

a 1-check mark article
Bartlett, you've outdone yourself !! Your article received an average vote score of 1-check mark... It's to bad we don't have the option of scoring it with 0-check marks... Because that's what it deserve's !!

About the economy
Those "politically sophisticated conservatives" would recognize how Congress kept Bill from spending and raising taxes, so your two main reasons for her appeal to conservatives, the war (see my previous post) and economics, are down the drain. Want to rethink your position, Bruce?

the next president
The next president needs to be an American, not just a republican or democrat. These are desperate times.

Two evils
When you vote for the lesser of two evils, you still vote for evil.

Choice in 2008?
This article is total nonsense! The problem is not whether the Republicans can win in 2008, the problem is that neither the Democrats NOR the Republicans should be allowed to gain the Presidency in 2008!
We have been suckered for far too long by the propaganda put out by both parties that somehow they alone are capable of governing this great nation. These elites have rigged the election process so as to assure themselves continual power, and we are about to fall for this "non-choice" story line again!
When oh when are we going to reclaim our authority and exercise our responsibility to govern ourselves; an authority and responsibility given to us by our founding fathers! WHEN?? These elites have figured out how to stay in power, and because we are convinced that they are the only ones with wisdom and knowledge, they ignore the Constitution, the rule of law, and the will of the people. They substitute partisanship for leadership, and I guarantee that if we elect another Democrat OR Republican, the greatness of America will continue to decline. I challenge everyone of you to consider that seriously. The two parties offer nothing more than the same old same old and we have abdicated our rights to govern ourselves and given these elites the room to do whatever it is they please.
I am a candidate for President in 2008, and I am urging you to visit my website, joeolivaforpresident.org. There just isn't enough room for these hypocrites to stay in power any longer. Check out my website, you will not be disappointed. You might actually see that we can reclaim our country if only we were willing to throw out past affections for the two parties that couldn't possibly care less about it. They only seek power, fame, and fortune for themselves!! Why can't we see that, why can't we get that in our heads. Do not allow these people to continue! DON'T DO IT!
Thanks, Joe

You missed something Bruce
Bill Cinton's record is to a large extent the result of his having to make deals with a Congress run by people far more conservative than he. Hillary would be joined to a Congress far more liberal than she, and the resulting policies would in all likelihood be far more liberal than Bill's.

You Want to do "WHAT"!
It doesn't matter which Democrat gets the nomination, conservatives are not going to vote for him/her. No matter who they nominate, there is going to be a conservative flood on election day. If it is Obama it will be a total rejection of his ideas. If it is Hillary it will be a total rejection of ... Hillary.

Also beware, voting in the Democratic primary has it's price. I never had jury duty in my life until I voted in a Democratic primary and we still ended up with Jimmy Carter

Reagan optimism
What ever happened to "Reagan optimism"? Reagan was a long shot in 1976 and 1980, but he ultimately prevailed by standing firm on conservative principles and casting a positive, can-do vision of American greatness. Ever since Bartlett left the White House, he seems to be operating on the premise that Reagan's 11th commandment was "thou shalt never speak well of a fellow Republican." There is plenty wrong with the GOP, but all Bartlett does is whine about it; each column he writes is better than the next, i.e., it's been a long, downhill slide into negativism -- proving only that you can indeed put new whine into an old whine-skin. None of the major GOP candidates for prez are perfect, but some are better than others and most are better than any of the Dems. Let's focus on the positive. If we are running behind right now for 2008, let's do something about it instead of whining and prophesying defeat. It's pretty obvious at this point that Bartlett wants the GOP to lose, so why should we pay any further attention to what he has to say?

Bartlett is right about Hillary
Hillary Clinton is clearly way out in left field but Obama and Edwards are hugging the left field foul line. That is how far to the left those two bozos are. Hillary would do less harm to the country than Edwards or Obama.

Bartlett is clearly wrong and out of his mind saying we should throw the in towel on the Republican candidates. Mitt Romney would beat any of the Dem candidates in the general election. Rudy Guliani would be the worst candidate the Republicans could send to the general election he is Democrat lite.

WTF, Mr Bartlett?
Bartlett's advice is basically, "Go to sleep, conservatives, and everything will work out in the end".

First, how can a conservative have a direct impact on choosing the Democrat's candidate, unless that conservative were to declare party affiliation for the Democrats and then participate in the primary?

Second, assuming that conservatives can influence the Democrats by printing articles, blogs, etc, speaking favorably of Hilary, is he saying that that is what we should do? Does Mr. Bartlett think that the DailyKosers, Air America's listener, fans of "The View" and other Leftists are actually reading our outlets, to get an idea of which of their candidates to support? Or does he think that we can influence the choice by coming out in favor of Hilary's rivals, so the Leftists will see that and abandon them for her, since they have approval from conservatives?

Was this column just filler, to meet a deadline?

Hilary delenda est.

Biggest 2008 LOSERS would then be:...
If, indeed one of the two top Dems (Hillary Rodham Clinton or Barack Hussein Obama) wins the White House then....the BIGGEST LOSERS ARE:

:Any & all preborn children - till their whole body hits air & they magically acquire personhood.

(Look how FAST Dems RUSHED to get legislation in to destrop embryos/fetuses! Are they the biggest danger to America!!! Or what???)

:any one of us who does NOT want the US hamstrung by extremist legislation on the "global climate" issue

:anyone who is concerned with the left who seem BLIND to the possibility of aggressive Islamist extremists in this country.

And as of today, I don't see any Republican candidate who is a significant hope for a life affirming and nation- affirming culture...

GOP-RIP
The Republican Party under GWB seems intent on political suicide. Pandering to citizens of other countries illegally in our country while telling us we must be vigilantes if we object to illegal aliens ignoring our borders and laws. Mel Martinez is RNC Chairman to ensure an open borders candidate in '08. The cheap labor express will be kept running, regardless of the consequences, to party or country. GOP-RIP

slacker
Pres. Bush has hurt the Republican Party, however, Pres. Bush has not destroyed the conservative movement in this country. The conservative movement is alive and well and will continue to influence politics for a long time to come.

I Expect Fred Thompson
to announce some time in May. The dynamic of this pre-campaign season will certainly change. Chin up, and all that.

A viable consideration
Let me think about voting for Hillary - OK - Nuff thought!! I need something to relieve the pain I'm experiencing.


Why this IS FALSE & why FDT is VERY REAL

1. Dems either Do Not outpoll or substantially outpoll currently in head to head matchups.

This is occurring EVEN THOUGH they have: A) More money up front in use promoting them B) Tons of favorable media coverage C) No strong Republican opponent with a pulpit D) Lots of freebie props regarding Iraq

2. Fred Thompson is everything "Rudy McRomney" is not. And, he will declare and bolt to a strong 2nd place before taking the lead.

HE IS CAPABLE OF HANDILY OUT-DEBATING AND OUT-CLASSING Giuliani and ANY LEADING DEM, and doing so in a media-proof manner.

Trust me, there is little question here.

3. By the way, both Clintons are only moderated by necessity in order to get what they want and remain popular.

If Bartlett actually thinks their circumstantial records are indicative of future plans he has failed terribly. Too bad... he was a respected at leader NCPA as I remember.

Hillary's Economic Policies
The crux of Bartlett's argument is that Hillary would be no worse on economic policy than Bill. Yet Bruce offers no evidence that Hillary with a DEM Senate and House would be like Bill Clinton 1997 with a GOP Senate and House.....If Bruce cannot address those issues, he is agrument is invalid

Vote for Hillary??!?
NO WAY IN HADES!

I prefer to go down fighting even if the battle is hopeless (a point I am not willing to concede).

Further a Thompson/Hunter ticket would not only animate the Republican and Conservative base, but also have an effect on the Moderates.

The "middle-of-the-roaders" would have a "Hollywood face" in Fred Thompson for which to vote.

Hillary
The Clinton's ran the most corrupt administration in the history of our country. Their dealings with China border on treason. Bill's cowardly indecision and inaction on dealing with Islamic terrorism endangered our country and emboldened our enemies. They don't really believe in anything and have no character or morals. They will go along with whatever the polls tell them. I can not vote for the wicked witch of the east.

largecaliber
I guess I'll agree with you that there will always be a conservative movement in this country, even after the republicans lose the white house in 2008.

The real question is what influence it will have over foreign policy and the domestic agenda. I would bet on it being much less than it is today with Clinton or Obama in the white house and a stronger democratic hold on both houses of Congress than they have today.

It is true as some above have suggested that a lot of things can happen between now and November 2008. The democrats today would be able shoot themselves in one foot and still cross the finish line victorious.

Yes, it is POSSIBLE the democrats COULD shoot themselves in BOTH feet and lose the race, but it is unlikely they are that stupid. Conservatives who count on the democrats to defeat themselves and don't think a democratic president and further consolidation of their control over congress is the most likely outcome of 2008 elections are just whistling as they walk into the graveyard.

Republicans Won't Fight Back
Why should Republican voters care? Their elected leaders certainly don't. As long as the President and Congress are simply Democrat punching bags, there doesn't seem to be much reason to fund them. When Republican leaders start fighting back, then maybe we'll have reason to care, and I'll pony up a few bucks. Until then, I'm proud to be a conservative, but embarassed to be a Republican.

Bartlett
I posted my thoughts on his column on my TH Blog.

Level Head: Well done
Ditto that.

Mr Scotch
" The bottom line is that nobody likes Hillary, and lots of people like, respect, and could vote for Guiliani or Fred Thompson."

Please explain to me why it would be preferable to elect someone of Giuliani's ilk? BrianR is known around here for referring to him as Bald Hillary and he's right. Giuliani is all for open borders and is anti-gun. Sounds a lot like Hillary to me.

How any self-respecting conservative could even consider voting for this gun-grabbing Jose, is beyond me.

I agree...
...with your suggestion to call you crazy. The farther left the democrats' nominee is, the less chance they will be elected by the electorate as a whole.

Furthermore, Hilary is no more appealing than the other leftie loonies who are running.

Liberty
Here are some RHINOS that would have no problem:

Bruce Bartlett
David Gergen
Arlen Spector
Olympia Snowe
Colin Powell
Chuck Hegel
Brent Scowcroft

and

George Bush


Since the outlook is so bleak
let's involk the "nuclear option". Bush & Cheney should just resign and let Nancy Pelosi become the president by default from now until Jan 09. Heck, why wait until the election to cede power to the left. Yep, we should just do it now so they can clean up Bush's mess. I know I'd feel safer with San Fran Nan in the WH, wouldn't you?

[/sarcasm = off]

I'd Slit My Wrists First
Voting for Hillary Clinton because she is the most "conservative" democratic contender makes about as much sense as screwing for virginity.

Contrarian or Just Contrary
Bartlett reminds me of an older family member who with loss and ill health has gotten a bit paranoid and contrary as he ages. I'll try to humor him and realize that he doesn't think as clearly as he once did.

Gotta laugh
This lemon of a column still has only one dinky check mark.

Hey, Bartlett, take a hint, loser!


Not a good approach
Trying to... do what, exactly, "with" the least liberal (???) Democrat? Sounds like getting clocked by a boomerang to me.

No. Republicans' best bet in 2008 -- IF you are certain that the Democrats are going to win the presidency, which I am not -- is to win back the Senate.

Even RINOs do better opposing a Democrat president than "supporting" (if we can call it that) a "compassionate Republican" one. If we can't have Reagan and a Republican Senate, let's at least have Clinton and a Republican Senate.

The outlying concern, for ANY permutation of presidents and Senates: judicial appointments. Republicans don't have a perfect record in this regard, and I have no confidence in McCain or Giuliani to appoint true originalists. Jury's still out for me on Romney.

Day after Thompson
I have a prediction. The day after Fred Thompson declares Bruce Bartlett will be overheard saying, "I can't remember writing a column for TOWNHALL on May 1st. What was it about?"

DEMOCRATS - PLEASE NOMINATE HILLARY

Wrong Month
Bruce, it's May 1st not April 1st. Enough with the jokes.

some historical perspective
My advancing age allows me to see past a lot of political hype and apocalyptic predictions, right and left. I remember being around liberals who were all gloomy about this time sixteen years ago because Bush (senior) had approval ratings hovering around ninety.

Defeatist
So vote for Hillary if you are that much of a defeatist. As for me, I will vote Republican and do a lot of praying also. My motto is "Anybody but Hillary"!

The problem for the GOP is Bush himself.
gentlemanscholar asks: "What ever happened to 'Reagan optimism'? Reagan was a long shot in 1976 and 1980, but he ultimately prevailed by standing firm on conservative principles and casting a positive, can-do vision of American greatness."

That's MUCH easier to do when the Republican is running against an unpopular Democrat incumbent in the White House. Reagan was able to portray himself as the real alternative to Carter's failed policies. Just like Nixon had portrayed himself in 1968 as the real alternative to Lyndon Johnson's failed policies.

The problem in 2008 is that the GOP candidate, whoever he is, is trapped by the unpopular incumbent GOP administration, the leader of his OWN party. He can't advocate ANYTHING that is perceived as too great a break from Bush's policies.

Let me explain how this is going to work: In 2008, the GOP candidate, whoever he is, is going to be peppered with questions like "Do you agree with Bush on [this]?" "Did you support Bush on [that]?" "Given how badly the Iraq War turned out, what would you do differently than Bush has done?" Etc. etc.. He's going to get those questions from the media, from the Democrats, from everywhere.

And there's really no good way for him to answer. If he supports Bush, who is EXTREMELY unpopular with Independent voters, they won't vote for him. If he breaks with Bush, he will split the Republican Party (whose stalwarts are still mostly loyal to Bush) and ensure a GOP loss in November 2008 anyway.

As I said, this is EXACTLY the same trap that Hubert Humphrey was in, back in 1968. He dared not denounce the leader of his own party, Lyndon Johnson; but he could not defend LBJ's track record with the American people either. And so, he lost.

I don't see how any Republican candidate in 2008 can convince the American people that he won't just continue the Bush war policy, without splitting the GOP in the process.

The GOP has to really hope for a miracle here. If the surge in Iraq proved to be a huge unqualified success, their candidate could still run on that in 2008. Otherwise, it's going to be a reprise of 1968, but with the roles of the two parties reversed. The challenger, Nixon then, probably Hillary now, will just coast to victory by saying "America needs new leadership". That's all they will have to say.

Bartlett says "call me crazy"
Ok...you certainly are. What world are you living in where you see no Republican enthousiasm? I'm very enthousiastic for Mitt Romney's presidential run. If he debates Clinton, he'll put her in her liberal place.

gridlock
I exchanged emails with BB back around the time bartlettb@cox.netof the 2006 election. He was touting the concept of "gridlock." The idea was, essentially, don't vote, let the democrats take control. Just more of the "giveup" attitude. Can't buy it!


Bartlett: Re: A vote for
Gridlock
My response

Are you insane? If we were not in a state of war I would have more
sympathy for your position. You may think that the liberals won't be soft
on the enemies of The United States; if you do, you will find that you
have been fool-hardy.

What does the word "gridlock" mean? The last time I faced gridlock was in
traffic. What happened? No one was able to move; it was impossible for
help to reach those in need of emergency assistance; everyone was
frustrated and perplexed.

Surely you must realize how "gridlock" would encourage the terrorists? Or
do you think they will take pity on a country that is unable to act in a
unified way while they are chopping off our heads?

You sound like the little boy who will take his "ball home because he
wasn't allowed to win."

You might think about the problems facing Lincoln during the civil war.
He was castigated and denounced by many who felt that he was too unbending.

I have followed your writings over the years, this has disappointed me;
what makes you suddenly so sure that we must have "gridlock?" I know you
must be aware of the nonsense spewed by so many of the Democrat
"leaders?"
How will following them, or allowing them to gain control benefit the
average citizen, one of whom being me.

As a 75 year old small business owner; having an autistic 23 year old
daughter; 5 children and 21 new generation citizens, I am vehemently
opposed to the Reid (hairy), Pelosi (ninny), Schummer (Chuckee), the
alcoholic disposed teddy(the swimmer), etc. having control of congress
for even two years. If they had a Mike Mannsfield; a Harry Truman (who was
one of my favorite presidents); or a Scoop Jackson - and we were not in a war
I might consider your position with some measure of sympathy. With the
current crop of idiots, forget it! Swallow your pride, vote what is best
for this country - it's not the Democrats!

By the way, I have served in military; and I have a Math degree (In spite
of Kerry's "bullcon"); My 21 grandchildren will face terror and an
unnecessarily dangerous future if this country doesn't understand that
some ideas and plans are, in fact, superior to others. Opposition, in and
of its self, does not bring utopia.

I am fairly confident that you will not respond; I have no anger, I'm just
perplexed with your position.

Dean Adams
President, Adams Financial Software, Inc.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bartlett"
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: Townhall.com Columnist Mail for Bruce Bartlett: Re: A vote for
Gridlock


> You are old enough to remember that Democrats controlled Congress and
> Republicans controlled the White House during the Cold War--a vastly more
> serious war than the one we are engaged in today. Many Democrats like
> Harry
> Truman helped us win that war.
>
> Bruce Bartlett
> 439 Seneca Road
> Great Falls, VA 22066
> (703) 421-7784
>
>
I disagree; during the cold war (which I certainly do remember) we could
identify the enemy. Can we identify, and pinpoint, our enemy in this
terrorist environment? I think not! Also; I do not agree that the cold war
was vastly more serious - we never suffered a 9/11 during that time. The
USSR knew that they would suffer a terrible nuclear holocaust if they had
initiated an attack. And, don't forget; the Islamofacists would certainly
use an atomic weapon if they could obtain and deliver one.

I still think you need to reconsider the "gridlock" position; it is, in my
humble opinion, a recipe for disaster. And I might add; I do not agree with
everything done by the Bush admin.; I just would hate to take a chance on
the democrats, especially after Kerry's idiotic performance the past two
days; "yuck, is all I can say!" (And didn't I say that I would consider
voting for a "Truman?")

By the way; I do appreciate your response and do hope you will go back to
being the Bruce I did (and still do) admire.

Dean Adams


Bruce:

I wasn't going to communicate further unless I heard from you. And, this will most likely be the final message.

Well, you got your gridlock. Time will tell if this will strengthen the country and/or the Republican Party. It is my prediction that the next two years will see an attempted increase in terrorist attacks on our shores, a withdrawal of our troops from the mid-East (an open invitation to Islam fanatics who already believe the US citizens are cowards), the potential invasion of Israel (it will fail, but it will also be very bloody), an attempt to tax every dollar to support feel-good programs, etc. etc.

This can be stopped! But not as long as the elite "ultra-right conservatives" continue to believe that the President and the Republican Party must meet all THEIR expectations and do not recognize that there is more than one "agenda" supported by "other conservatives." There are, after all, many differing concepts held by members of any major political party. I may agree with some of your ideas, but I will almost certainly disagree with others. Now then, WHOSE IDEAS HAVE PRIORITY?

I continually hear the complaint that Bush is ignoring the "base." Nonsense, I don't agree with everything that you and others (such as Laura Ingraham) want, but I'm just as much a part of the the base as you, or she is. I do not, however, believe that I would be justified in "staying home" or blasting Bush everytime I disagree with him. Shrill invictive does not bring results.

Hope you are well, and I feel your dismissal from your association with (oops, I can't) remember the groups name was unfortunate.

Good luck; I still enjoy your writing even when I disagree.

Dean Adams



Bruce:

I still can't resist the urge!

Chiasmus;


I was wrong to say that I enjoyed you writing:
I was wrong to disagree with your problem with the "group" and no longer associate with them:
I was wrong to say that I don't always agree with President Bush;
I was wrong to say that "ultra conservatives" have to be entirely satisified by Bush;
I was wrong to believe that taxes will be increaed;
I was wrong to state that Israel will face an invasion;
I was wrong to believe that the threat of terror actions here will be attempted;
I was wrong to state that the Islam fanatics will view this as a win, the American people are WEAK WILLED!
The American people ARE too weak willed to face a serious threat;
The threat of new terror attacks have already been made by the terrorists;
Israel now faces the imminent threat of an attack from Iran;
The Dimocrats are already denying a tax increase, we should know better;
Too many ultra conservatives are blaming Bush for everything (as are Dimocrats);
President Bush may be getting worn-out, he can’t please ANYONE, regardless;
Your “former group” was probably justified in dismissing you; (I’m still not certain);
I no longer find your writing as insightful as THEY ONCE WERE..


Your latest contribution to Town Hall was confusing, at least to this uneducated old man.


Don’t give up, however, repentance is still an option.


Dean

As of May 1, 2007

It is my position that the gridlpck we now face has the potential of disaster. We must win in Iraq!

Vote against Obama
Stay calm. Hillary has soo many skeletons in her closet that ANY Republican except McCain or Guiliani can beat her.

People don't forget Hillary claimed under oath that she couldn't recall over 400 times during the Whitewater investigation. Magically (after being lost for over a year) her Madison legal papers showed up in the White House after the November election was past.

Also don't forget the White House Pardons of Fugitive Rich and the Puerto Rico terrorists.

Please Hillary win the Democratic nomination. She is so dirty she will Force people to turn out just to vote against her!

Obama on the other hand is slick willy 2.

Rita (at 2:04am) and Brian R (at 10:39am
I think you two have pretty much nailed it.

Hillary Kitten's position on Iraq is tactical. Her gamble is that Americans aren't ready to surrender and will figure out that the West needs to fight back in the War Against Western Civilization. When it comes down to primary time, she may be the only candidate who is potentially electable in a national race. (Remember, the last time around the Dems nominated Kerry because they thought he could be elected most easily?)

But to get elected, she has to fool the middle (you know, that group of people who don't know who is the Vice President).

If she becomes the Democrat's candidate, when it comes time to pull the levers, I wonder if many people now who give her a reluctant favorable rating will balk at voting for someone who might scratch out the eyes of a puppy.

Wrong Bruce

.....Bruce ....

.....I fear you have been out in the sun too long ...

.....I would vote for Abdul the Bung Master before I would vote for a Democrat to be President .....COLOSSUS

Inane
This article is inane. First of all, it's certainly not a foregone conclusion that the democrats will take the white house (the core assumption here).
Second, I really can't fathom how you can pronounce Ms Clinton the more conservative of the 3 mentioned. How do you know where she really stands? What she says depends on who she's addressing...so we really don't know based on her campaigns how liberal she is. We do, however know from her more distant past that she's pretty dang far left and there's nothing conservative about her.
Come Nov 2008, we will have 2 (or 3) candidates. At that time we may have to compromise on some small issues (ie we won't be 100% in sync with any one candidate. But that's a far cry from a conservative voting for Hillary Clinton.
Not gonna happen.
The article is drivel.

SteveL
SteveL

You make some very good points about the difficulties the 2008 GOP Presidential nominee will have to surmount in order to hold the base and attract independents. The task is difficult, but not impossible. My point, however, was that simply declaring defeat in advance is sheer lunacy and very un-Reaganesque to boot.

Yes, Reagan probably could not have defeated Carter in '80 if Carter had not been such a disaster in both economic and foreign policy-- but Reagan also had the advantage of running against the incumbent. The 2008 Dem nominee will no doubt spend as much time running against Bush as he/she will against the GOP nominee, but the GOP nominee is not the incumbent. The GOP nominee does not have to "denounce" Bush in order to differentiate himself from Bush on certain policies, leadership style, and managerial skill.

BTW, Nixon did not "coast" to victory in 1968. The Viet Nam War was taking its toll on Humphrey's popularity, but in the final month or so of the campaign he began to call for an immediate halt to the bombing. He began to close in on Nixon in the polls, especially after LBJ announced a halt in the bombing. Although Humphrey was decimated in the electoral college, he only lost the popular vote by 500,000.

The current political dynamics do not favor the GOP, but a lot can happen between now and 2008. We may need a healthy dose of realism, but we do not need pundits who are purportedly on our side counseling GOP conservatives to abandon the GOP and vote for a "conservative" Dem like Hilary in the Dem primaries. That would be a great way to dilute conservative influence in the GOP and a great way to insure a Hilary victory, but if you think that Hilary will do a better job listening to conservatives than GWB, well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell to you.

OK
you're crazy.

When rape is inevitable

You know the rest.

Conservatives for Hillary
ARE YOU CRAZY? I'LL NEVER READ ANOTHER OF YOUR ARTICLES AGAIN.

SteveL
Another factor in 1968 was the virtually total lack of support from Gene McCarthy until a day or so before the election.

That was an election where the Democrats did themselves in.

Clyde9

The 'conservative' choice? Utgijima!*
*don't make me laugh

I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

During Clinton's 8 years I was laid off twice, went from permanent employment to a series of contract jobs - all but one of the companies are no longer in business - had to sell my house, and by the end was living with my parents again. The vaunted Clinton Economy was a paper tiger.

In terms of character, there is nothing conservative about either Clinton. I would sooner vote for a more liberal candidate whose character is less objectionable.

In 1992 people - well, 43% of the few that bothered to vote - voted for "change." They deposed a man who was an uninspiring president and not much of a conservative, George HW Bush, but who was an infinitely better man. The resulting "holiday from History" was a colossal joke, the mess of which we are still cleaning up.

Seriously - I'd vote for Obama or Kucinich long before I'd vote for Hillary. Hell, I'd vote for Osama before I'd vote for Hillary; if the people are that stupid, we might as well get it over with and surrender. An obvious liberal would be gone in four years. A Clinton would do anything and everything to get the full eight years, whether they deserve it or not. And the country will be the worse for it.

Well...
As a middle-of-the-roader, I'd say that going for a conservative Democrat is the best bet for conservatives. After the mess in Iraq, the mess with Katrina, endless scandals (Valerie Plame, Tom DeLay, etc.), the new interest in the welfare of the environment over the welfare of oil companies, and the loss of Congress to the Dems, I don't think that the Republican Party stands a chance in these elections. Mind as well compromise and get something back, rather than lose all around...

Bait and Switch
What a great idea. Convince the thinking impaired that all hope is lost 18 months from now - even though a week in politics is a lifetime. Meanwhile suggest that the only choice left is to make the best of a bad situation. Talk them into moving severely to the socialist left with a vote for any of the dems - even satan...er...um...hillary.

Then, as the final weeks before primaries take place, we will be asked to take a second look at McCain or Rudy. All of a sudden these guys begin to look conservative. Next to Hillary, McCain is Reagan. Rudy...maybe he will start to look too conservative.

I got a better idea. Lets require a real candidate from the Republicans. Maybe a JC Watt...sure, even Fred Thompson. If they don't deliver, we can spend election day praying for an early rapture - for only then will all hope be truly gone. Until that happens, I think we should call for the resignation of all so called conservative writers that attempt to get us to abandon hope.

In 2000 I voted 4 the lesser of 2 evils
8 years later I am still stuck with the lesser of two evils.

The only difference;

The "lesser of two evils" screwed up a victory by trying to avoid disaster rather than winnig (Yes, I'm talking about Bush)

The "lesser of two evils" refused to turn Fallujah into a parking lot after they danced on the street with the charred dismembered remains of our heroes.

The "lesser of two evils" refused to kill Muqtad Al-Sdar even after knowing he was a pawn of Iran.

Until we found ourselves with one million illegals marching on our streets on a Communist Holiday (May 1) after been organized by the World Socialist Party, with the money from a Socialist millionaire (George Soros)

I think I had enough of the "lesser of two evils."

I think this time we don't need to compromise but to fight for our system and our values.

The flag is on the dust; who will pick it up?

Disappointed too many times
Boy, the name Hillary really brings out the libs to Townhall. Frankly, I am too tired to argue with them. I have been willing to forgive Bush for just about every liberal policy that he has championed, including bills sponsored by ultra-left wing names like Kennedy and Feingold. But, if he signs the amnesty bill, that will be the last straw. After that, the Republicans will have to win in 2008 without my vote. It is up to the Republicans in Congress to use every tool available to them to stop Bush. If they don't, the party is done.

LOL
Ha Ha Ha (catches breath)...ok. Let' see...we're more than A YEAR AND A HALF from the election, and Bartlett's ready to call it quits? Let's refute this "well written and astute" piece point by point:

1. " As each day passes, it becomes increasingly clear that the Democrats will win the White House next year. "

The latest Gallup poll shows the leading GOP candidate (Guilani) beating the leading Democratic candidate (Clinton) by five points. (http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm) BEATING, not trailing. Can Bartlett read?

2. "All the energy is on their side, they are raising more money from more contributors"

The Dem candidate who raised the most was Hillary Clinton who raised $26M. The GOP candidate who raised the most is Mitt Romney who raised $23M. Basically a 0.1 margin. "All the energy", Bartlett? Can you compare numbers well?

3. " On economics, it is reasonable to assume that Sen. Clinton’s policies would not be altogether different from Bill Clinton’s."

Clinton (Bill) passed the largest tax increase in history (after promising middle-class cuts during the campaign). Bartlett cites a 1997 tax cut. Please remember this "cut" DID NOT affect income taxes! It impacted estate and capital gains, but most americans don't pay those...so for 90% of Americans, taxes were higher under Clinton. So punitive taxation in Bartlett's mind constitutes economic policy that "wouldn't be so bad". Does Bartlett have any command of history?

4. " it is a real act of courage for her to steadfastly refuse to say her vote for the war was wrong"

Oh really? Instead, Hillary has said she was misled on the vote and never thought it authorized war. Of course, Hillary never makes mistakes....but she does get deceived by GOP evil-doers! Did anyone in the country think the 2003 bill was anything but a war authorization? A true profile in courage indeed? At this point, I ask, is Bartlett senile?
--

I'm not angered by this column; people have a right to make a fool of themselves in plain view. But its more caution that your average pundit may not be an election analyst; he may not even be sane.

BruceBarlettBilge
Tried earlier to post and it did not go--- he is crazy--certifiable- and NO I would not vote for
Mrs Bill Clinton if she was the only candidate running for anything--even dog-catcher, as the saying goes.
I am not familiar with B Bartlett- but he can claim to be a conservative--- BTW--conservative-what?-- can't fool me.
He can vote for the shrill one, but he will lose too.
Cannot see that he has a place on TH.

I noticed
TownHall removed this column from its front page.

Testy
Watch out Bruce, the neocons are getting testy.

bad day at blackrock for neocons
Bartlett has the guts to write this article. That has to count for something.

I don't believe it possible for anyone to persuade me to vote for Hillary.

Still, Bush supporters cannot forever remain in denial.

Neocons duped a president, with little historical perspective on the mideast, into this war.

If any event is reponsible for leading the GOP into oblivion in 2008(and possibly for a decade beyond), it will be Iraq.

And who was responsible for that? Clue: It was not the cartoon character Mr. Magoo.

It was our president, and those advisors who advocated this course of action.

Neocon advisors have now for the most part abandoned this administration, fleeing to positions at the World Bank, or think-tanks, leaving a beleaguered administration to contend with the disastrous advice their counsel has wrought.

Despite the brouhaha surrounding George Tenet's recent book, no one can dispute that in the first few days or weeks after 9/11, then presidential advisor, pentagon official, and noted neocon Richard Perle, did state to George Tenet, as Tenet was about to meet with the president regarding the 9/11 attack, that IRAQ, and SADDAM, would have to pay a price for this attack, not Al Qaida.

It is trivial for some to say that Perle was in France on Sept. 12th, when the comment was supposedly uttered to Tenet.

Would it have mattered if it was Sept. 20th, instead? Would it have fundamentally changed anything?

The fact is the neocons were bristling for this Iraq war, and having failed to convince Bush 41 to topple Saddam, they set their sights on his largely clueless son a decade later.

And them's the cold hard facts.

Who's economy?
One flaw in Mr. Bartlett's arguement is that the "economy of her husband" was the economy of the Congress. The 1993 tax hike was given to the President Clinton by a Dem Congress. Yes, that is what he wanted, but as 1997 showed, when he did not want a tax cut, he got what Congress gave him. The Republican Congress cut taxes, not President Clinton.

A Hillary presidency would be much more benign with a "do nothing" conservative Congress, than with even a slim "do something expensive" Dem majority Congress. If Mr. Bartlett thinks the Republicans cannot win the executive, he had better be working overtime helping return the legislative.

no
First, what is with the people who are absolutely sure of what conversations took place when and where and think they know everything. And what is with this prisonplanet.com.

Anyways, if conservatives were to support a candidate in the democratic primary wouldn't they support the one they believe is the least electable. But this could backfire, so this is why conservatives will not ever support a liberal democrat even if he/she is less liberal than the other guy.

Regarding Iraq
WMD, firing on our planes, funding suicide bombers, training terrorists were all true and had been true and even Clinton bombed Saddam but, why did Iraq rate so high with Bush?

Because in Nov. 2000, Saddam started selling oil in euros. That reduction in demand for the dollar hit the U.S. 24% as the demand for the eruo climed and drove it from 83% to $1.05.

For those who don't understand how successful an attack on the U.S. that was, think of how it drives up prices for all American consumers. That lesson Saddam taught the world and was praised for by nations like Iran and Venezuela is why they have now moved to selling oil in euros and the dollar has continued to decline to $1.36 for a euro. It is hurting us every day and most people don't know what is behind their lost buying power (along with debt, entitlement spending, etc).

Iraq was doing more damage to the U.S. than al-Qaeda but it was in a way that you couldn't talk about it without risking panic selling of the trillions held by foreign nations and the risk of them refusing to loan us the billions we need to fund our entitlement programs and other government spending.

It also wasn't something you could "go to war" over and so, an "excuse" was needed and WMD and the war on terror was that excuse. That was unethical, but, given the successful attack Saddam had made on the U.S. economy, acceptable by many in power. They could "justify the means" because the "end" was to save American citizens high prices for imports due to a collapsing dollar.

What is sad, is that it was foolish to think it would end the problem. Now we have even more nations moving away from the dollar. Had they acted (unethical or not) sooner, before the world saw how successful Saddam was, maybe those other nations wouldn't be moving to the euro. We not only acted unethically, by using WMD to end the sale of oil in euros but acted too late for it to have any effect in the long run.
quote:
So far only one OPEC country has dared switch to the euro: Iraq, in November 20002, 3. There is little doubt that this was a deliberate attempt by Saddam to strike back at the US, but in economic terms it has also turned out to have been a huge success: at the time of Iraq's conversion the euro was worth around 83 US cents but it is now worth over $1.05. There may however be other consequences to this decision.

One other OPEC country has been talking publicly about possible conversion to the euro since 1999: Iran2,4, a country which has since been included in the George W. Bush's 'axis of evil'.

A third OPEC country which has recently fallen out with the US government is Venezuela and it too has been showing disloyalty to the dollar. Under Hugo Chavez's rule, Venezuela has established barter deals for trading its oil with 12 Latin American countries as well as Cuba.
http://www.feasta.org/documents/papers/oil1.htm
===============================

Written before we resumed the ongoing war with Iraq (started with Kuwait), we see an unbiased report on the successful attack of Saddam.

Also, the sale in Euro's had to be very pleasing to powers in Europe who could then buy oil directly with euros instead of dollars, thus making their lack of support for the U.S. even more understandable. Currently there are many in Europe pressuring Russia to sell oil in euros.

The currency, not the oil itself, is why we went to war, why we have weird relationships with Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. It is why we intervene so much in oil nations. Not because of the oil but because if the oil isn't sold in dollars, our currency will collapse and may anyway as it loses more and more favor around the world and the world shifts to the euro and other currencies.

Again you can't get on TV and talk about this or you risk panic selling and an immediate collapse of our currency and an economic crisis.

Old man
As someone with an economics background, your post sheds the most light on what has been a very confusing saga for many years. There had to be more than meets the eye on this one.
Cheers.

Hillary for Pres
Can we dig up Lee Oswald and clone him? Just in case?

Hillary = Bush
Hillary will give the appearance of whatever to look good to the electorate, then do whatever she can to betray them once elected. She's a true believer in statism as is Bush. Fortunately, I don't think she will get away with nearly what Bush got away with, unless there is another 9-11 incident for her and her party to exploit. Her presidency will be no more significant than her token husband's. Because of that, she probably will be more conservative than Bush, but not by choice.

Dems consider themselves "Enemy Within"
According to the recent Gallup poils, the 2 percents of Democrats / Lean Democratic consider the United States as an Enemy.

http://conservativevalley.townhall.com/g/d11bdb12-e5a2-429a-aec2-c4d353c5a3c8

conservatives vote for Hillary?
Are you high? I'd sooner vote for Al Sharpton or Ted Kennedy than that psychotic self-serving shrew. She gets in the white house it will be time to nuke DC.

Conservatives for Hillary?
I hate to say it, but I think Bruce is spot-on. We are dead in the water on so many issues. Iraq is only one. There's the question of ineptitude in the response to Katrina, which still dogs Louisiana (this year's gubernatorial election may highlight the equal ineptitude of Democrats in that state, but the nationwide image of a floundering administration was what first cost this administration the confidence of the people.

There are gasoline prices through the roof. The Republicans are, for better or worse, identified by most people as the party with ties to the oil industry (never mind that Occidental Petroleum has for decades been identified with leftist causes or that Citgo is owned by the socialist government of Venezuela). The average voter does not want to hear, and can't understand, sophisticated economic arguments showing that government intervention in prices is counterproductive. What the average voter wants to hear is a promise to "do something," a kind of promise at which Democrats excel.

There is a discrepancy between government reports on unemployment and what people are seeing. The government says that unemployment is down at its lowest levels since the late 60's. But the average voter sees that every time a job is advertised, it is either filled by the time he responds or there is a line of hundreds of people hoping to get that one job. He sees that employers are in a strong enough position that they can screen applicants out for any flaw in the background--a conviction twenty years ago or a three-month gap in employment. When the labor market is actually tight, employers will hire anyone who appears able to do the job. The sense of voters is that the government--hence the Republicans--is playing with the numbers, and therefore Republicans cannot be trusted.

The Democratic near-monopoly on mass media continues. Every Democratic mistake is minimized or even concealed; every Republican misttake is trumpeted. People have to get their information somewhere, and most of those "somewheres" are thoroughly in the pocket of the Democratic Party.

Charlie Schumer is dragging out the investigation of the fired US attorneys in such a way that, a couple of weeks before the election, he can produce what at least looks like a "smoking gun" to make the Republicans appear like crooks. Other Democrats will be doing the same with hearings on how we got into Iraq.

We're sunk next year unless the Democrats commit a major misstep, one so flagrant that the media can't hide it or explain it away, or there is a major break in the Iraq war. This will be worse than 1974.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.