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Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Tries To Flush Rush
by Brent Bozell
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For two decades, going back to the Willie Horton ads of 1988, we've heard liberals accuse Republicans of race-baiting. Throughout this campaign, there have been endless whispers, suggestions and outright accusations that GOP could/would play the race card because Obama is half-black. Now Barack Obama has found his bizarre version of Willie Horton, and it's . Rush Limbaugh.

Obama sneakily tried to air a Spanish-language TV ad telling Latinos that Limbaugh thinks all Mexicans are stupid, Mexican immigrants should all shut up and go home, and that Limbaugh and John McCain are identical twins on immigration.

None of it is true. Now when Obama talks about reaching across the aisle and healing a divided Washington, we'll fall to the ground laughing.

How far we've come since January, when moderate McCain won in South Carolina, and the liberal media were declaring that this showed that Limbaugh and his right-wing views were politically dead. Tom Brokaw huffily declared on "Meet the Press" that McCain's win showed Americans had rejected "dogma" and were a "nomadic herd" hungering only for "solutions," something conservatives apparently can't offer.

What Obama was trying to do in this ad, obviously, was play to racial fears. "They want us to forget the insults we've put up with, the intolerance," the ad announcer proclaimed in Spanish as a picture of Rush Limbaugh appeared onscreen with quotes of him allegedly saying, "Mexicans are stupid and unqualified" and "Shut your mouth or get out." The announcer added: "They made us feel marginalized in a country we love so much."

From there, the Democrats turned to tie this phony cartoon of Limbaugh to McCain: "John McCain and his Republican friends have two faces. One that says lies just to get our vote, and another, even worse, that continues the failed policies of George Bush that put special interests ahead of working families."

The script first broke into the national media on a Washington Post blog called The Trail. It was first corrected on an ABC News blog by political reporter Jake Tapper. The mangled "Mexicans are stupid" quote came from 1993, during debate over the NAFTA trade agreement, when Rush suggested that America shouldn't worry about losing low-skill jobs: "let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do -- let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work."

Tapper suggested the second quote was "totally unfair," since Limbaugh was suggesting in one of his morning radio commentaries in 2006 that the "Limbaugh Laws" of immigration would include not letting immigrants offer any criticism of the government of the president. "You're a foreigner, shut your mouth, or get out." At the end, he craftily noted that this and other laws are the immigration policy of Mexico.

But here's where it gets fascinating. The Washington Post offered no "fact check" debunking Obama's lies about Limbaugh in the news section of the paper. To her credit, liberal columnist Ruth Marcus slammed it five days later, but the news section did not. ABC News somehow allowed Tapper to blog everything that was wrong about the Obama ad, but never put him on television explaining it. ABC skipped it. So did CBS. So did NBC.

It gets worse. A day after Tapper's online fact check, "Nightline" host Terry Moran put together a real hatchet job on McCain, accusing him of not only flip-flopping on the issues, but also flip-flopping on campaign decency. "The old John McCain repeatedly promised voters a different kind of campaign. Nobler, less nasty, better. ... That was then. This is now."

Moran reported that McCain mocked Obama's vote in the Illinois Senate to allow "age-appropriate" sex education for kindergarteners. McCain was wrong to say in the ad that this vote was an "accomplishment," since the bill never passed, even though Obama's vote for this crud places him against most parents and solidly on the libertine left. And his subsequent statement that he shouldn't be tagged for that bill because he only voted for it, but didn't sponsor it, is far more disingenuous.

Moran highlighted how the site Factcheck.org declared the McCain ad "simply false," but never noticed that the same Factcheck.org also declared Obama's Limbaugh ad "doubly misleading."

Former Bush pollster Matthew Dowd completely sold out whatever soul he still possessed by singing harmony to Moran's melody: "And I think the Obama campaign wants to have this as a campaign in the clouds. I think the McCain campaign wants to have a campaign that's in the mud."

So even as ABC's website reports that Obama is gravely misleading Latinos about the alleged Mexican-hating Rush Limbaugh, El Gringo Maximo, ABC is airing ridiculous claims from its own "experts" proclaiming Obama wants to campaign "in the clouds." Which camp is abandoning fair-play principles for political gain?

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About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Willie Horton was a Criminal

When I see a photo of Willie Horton I see a criminal, not just a black man.

I have talked to many people over the decades, and have found that when you get to the bottom line, no one really hates another person because of color, race, gender, creed, or anything like that.

Those factors are the identifiers, and what you do next depends on your past experience with such a person, or what you just read in the paper, or heard on the news.

Just the other day I said to a Black man, a Pharmacist, “Do you know what I would do if I saw three big black men coming towards me on a dark street?”

He said, “You would cross the street.” I said, “No, I would say, Good evening Michael Jordan, glad to meet you Magic Johnson, I loved your show Bill Cosby.” He cheered my comment, and roared with laughter.

I don’t care what business or service you provide, I doubt very much that you would refuse service to those three men.

I have used that story with several black people, and not one person complained, they each and every one cheered and as one lady said, “If everyone had that opinion, we would have no more problem.”

You do not command respect, you earn it. If most of the stories in the paper tell about black gang members killing people, the Black community must correct that problem, the white community can’t do it.

As you can imagine, this could on for 50 pages at least, but I have carefully watched, asked, and talked abut this for many years.


Rush = Information
This country owes Rush Limbaugh a debt of gratitude for his shining the hot light of truth on issues that matter. How many knew about baseline budgeting before Rush exposed it? You know, where a decrease in the increase of a budget is called a budget cut. More money will be spent than the previous budget, but it is still a 'cut'.

Rush Limbaugh loves America and everything it stands for. How do I know this? Because I actually listen to his program instead of believing what the Terry Moran's of the world say he says.

Rush has exposed Barack Obama as a fraud and now Obama is trying to take him out. Good luck. Barack Obama as a unifier? Not with this kind of tripe.

If obama's campaign people.....
...believe that Mexicans will buy their ad as truth, then the latter really is stupid just as the former believes them to be.

Then again, the illegals are illiterate, coming from a third world country, and they know that the Dems will grant them all our social benefits to include social security benefits, welfare, free hospitalization, education benefits, etc. Does anyone think they care if the Dems assume they're stupid?

Illegal Mexicans have no pride and have demonstrated that they will live a socially-parasitic life as a natural choice. The Dems will oblige them. That's all both need to know.

IMPEACH SENATOR BARACK OBAMA
Hi,

I wanted to draw your attention to this important petition that I recently signed:

"Impeach Senator Barack Obama"
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e ...

I really think this is an important cause, and I'd like to encourage you to add your signature, too. It's free and takes less than a minute of your time.

Thanks!
-----------------

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e

Illegal Voters
Why is Obama reaching out to Spanish speaking people? I would assume that if you only speak Spanish you are not a legal citizen of this country and it is my understanding illegals are not "supposed" to vote. Oh, I forgot, Obama comes from Chicago and even dead people get to vote there.

Rush on Obama.
Mr. Bozell, I believe you made a date (year) error surrounding Willie Horton. Wasn't it in 1988?
Rush Limbaugh, several months ago, read the requirements to move to Mexico as an immigrant. I have the same list. He read it on the air (I heard it live) and talked of what a joke the Mexican Government is. What NObama's campaign did was quote the comments and hitch Rush to Mr. McCain making it look like McCain was against the Mexicans. It appears Obama's folks aren't smart enough to think up their own garbage so the take a few words out of context and, using Spanish, try to insult the electorate. This is typical of Obama, who wants George Soros' money and backing. Look into that can of rotten worms for us. Thanks.

McCain vs. His "Friends"
Everybody knows the Demos will stoop to every dirty trick available to win an election. Republicans often seem not to want to roll up their sleeves and slug back. A political campaign is not ping pong. McCain doesn't realize it but partisans will figuratively beat up on him twice as much as his Vietnamese captors--and his erstwhile media friends are joyfully joining the attackers. The fact that his "buddies," Kerry and Biden, turned on him should give him a clue that politics ain't a friendly beach ball game.



Obama Getting Desperate
It is sickening to see a supposedly grown man acting like an adolesant that is not getting his way and manipulates facts to his advantage , as if no one will question his motives.

second class citizen
OB needs to reclassify his present citizenship as second class citizen. he can't get the straight votes from the american citizen now he has to pretend to speak spanish which he can't. he can't even get past his arabic name much less trying to speak another foreign language. try go back to kenya if they want you as half brother. good ridden OB

second class citizen
OB needs to reclassify his present citizenship as second class citizen. he can't get the straight votes from the american citizen now he has to pretend to speak spanish which he can't. he can't even get past his arabic name much less trying to speak another foreign language. try go back to kenya if they want him as half brother. good ridden OB

How can they get away with this...!
The First Amendment is being trashed daily by the MSM. Who cares... As long as they can get away with it, they will. There is a BIG SLANT towards the democraps. I see this situation being analogous to screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. 1-It's not truthful 2-There is a possibility of people being hurt.

They are also providing cover for those STUPID democraps Franks, Biden, Schumer, Dowd, Pelosi, Reid et al. They got us into this mess... PEOPLE, ARE YOU LISTENING? VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Sorry for being tangential there...

Apparently

the only way the Obama campaign can view others is through a distorted lens.

To Limbaugh's credit, he did a repeat of the original broadcast, Obama's ad, and then followed up with a rebuttal, all done in Spanish for him. Perhaps the truth will get out, but I doubt it.

Martin Luther King Mocked By Democrats
I grew up in the 60's and Martin Luther King advocated real equality when he said " I see an America where a man is judged by his character not his skin color."

It seems that character does not matter to a lot of black & white Americans,,,They still look at skin color and vote accordingly without question of the background or real character of Obama.

The only characters that are judged by the current Democrat Party are Americans that disagree with their unrealistic view of America.


Jerseyvet

You are soooo right -- electoral politics ain't ping pong or beachball. They're morw like NHL hockey -- without the good manners!

Obama doesn't hesitate to high stick or bodycheck, but call a penalty on him and he whines and pouts like a little kid!

Obama Narcissim - Obama the 'Chosen'

"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

Barack Obama
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Barack Obama isn't really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway.

...A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"
Mark Morford San Francisco Chronicle, Friday, June 06, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history"
Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."
Halle Berry

"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."
Gary Hart

"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."
Chris Matthews


This should surprise no one
This is just TYPICAL liberal media clap trap fokes. They could get away with it at one time but this Internet changed all of that. Rush Limbaugh and talk radio changed all of that. Now the other side of the story is being told and when most people hear both sides, they can make the correct decision.

We Americans don't like lies. We recognize whem we are being played for the fool and we vote against those trying to play us for one.

What is amazing to watch is how the media can take a guy with ABSOLUTELY no preparation for being president, no skills, no training, and no back ground, and make him a viable candidate. But we have all seen and heard what Noboma sounds like when his teleprompter goes out and that is not the guy we want dealing with the Russians, the Iranians, or anyone else.

Dan Quayle was skinned alive in the media because of his lack of qualifications. That same media is extolling the virtues of Noboma who has about the same qualifications. What is the difference between them now. Does anyone think Noboma would be a legitimate candidate if he was not the most LIBERAL person in the senate and if he were not claiming that he is black. And how does one claim to be all black when he is actually half white anyway?

This is going to get even more entertaining before it's over and after that, the media will have lost what little credability it had and that will be a good thing.

Fact Check Please
The "Willie Horton ads" are from 1988, not 1999.

re: Matriarch
quote: "I would assume that if you only speak Spanish you are not a legal citizen of this country"

Your assumption is incorrect.

The truth will set you Free.
And more often than not, it hurts too. That is why Obambi is trying to subvert what Rush Limbaugh said. Liberals are Masters of Deception and will go to any length to distort the Truth. They (Liberals) are threatened by the Truth. Every time they are exposed for the Liars and Degenerates that they are, they hit a new low by resorting to gutter Politics, they have no shame...

Don't cry for El Rushbo
You know the old saying “Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.” The same applies to a guy who has listeners on 600-plus radio stations.

Those who would slander Rush are just asking for it. Time after time it’s been tried, and every assailant has been sent back to the locker room, licking his wounds, after Rush carpet bombs him with the truth.

You’d think ObamaNation would have learned something from the bludgeoning administered to his boss Dingy Harry Reid, for the infamous censorship letter to Clear Channel. But noooooo – they just keep coming back for more. And every time they do, they look smaller and more undignified than before.

Here’s to the next assault on El Rushbo. Once more and the ObamaNation campaign should be suitable for burial.

Gee, where are the kooky commies?
What's the matter? Not even THEY can defend the out-and-out LYING by Saddam Hussein Obama and his DNC masters in the "mainstream media"?

I have NEVER seen anything like this campaign. NEVER. Simply look at the way Palin has been treated to see something utterly UNPRECEDENTED in HUMAN history.

- Obama HIMSELF implies she is a pig.
- The head of the South Carolina Democratic Party declared that her "only qualification" is never having an abortion.
- Charles Rangel claimed that Palin was "disabled" and admitted he based his judgement of her TOTALLY on a SNL skit.
- Obama supporter Sandra Bernhard threatened to have Palin gang-raped (Oh, by the way, Obama has YET to come out and denounce that threat, thereby putting him in de facto agreement with it).

The "mainstream media" has FALSELY accused Palin of everything from covering up her daughter's pregnancy to intentionally causing her baby son's Down's Syndrome to cheating on her husband...all with ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO EVIDENCE! If the court system in this country was not BROKEN, Palin would OWN the entire mainstream media after the libel, slander, and defamation awards are handed out.

But no, we are watching Hitlarian fascism be rammed down our throat by the Democratic Klux Klan and their supporters in the "mainstream media".

Re: Communist????
Look, this is what Lenin did in Russia before the Revolution! Level the playing field and get ride of all the opposition! That included any body who opposed the revolution in writing and speeches about it, so they either were mysterously missing, or ended up in the gulags.
This is what Mr. Obamarxist is all about and don't cross out Socialist Joe!! Get ride of all the opposition and the sheepish masses will have power to resist this "New Change." This also includes the right to keep and bare arms!!! PEOPLE, WAKE UP!!!

Rush
I listen to Rush everyday.He loves this country,and you can tell it by his talk and his money.He is very entertaining,and his knowledge continues to amaze me.He has a fantastic staff,and I bet he treats them very well.

Faith
All our comments are correct about bambi's total lack of qualifications and marxist leanings; however the anger I sense from the right must be controlled with patience and faith. I'm joining the McCain phone bank and will try to calmly and with reason, win over some voters. When you respond with facts and anger, your message will be anger. With our faith and calmness, and with reasonable facts(which the right is right)then we must strive to convince! God bless America!

And this just in....
The Seminole County, Florida, election commission is investigating voter fraud after finding numerous cases of fake registrations there. The Dems will stop at nothing this year. They believe they are right and conservatives are scary, and they are still in a rage about false claims of disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000. Despite intense federal investigation that found the election to be fair.

It is great to come here to TH

and identify Obama, Jrs.' deceptions. It is even greater to make sure anyone who respects your opinions or even is willing to engage in respectful discussion hear the weaknesses endemic in Obama, Jr.

The most virulent problems Junior has are: his refusal to protect babies who have already been born; his determination to see that traditional marriage is destroyed; his determination to control guns; his determination to use the government to fund abortions; his determination to raise taxes and expand government; his determination to give in to Islam; his determination to weaken the U.S. militarily; his determination to turn the government over to lawyers; his determination to reduce Americans' freedoms.

There is plenty to tell people about Obama, Jr.
If you pay attention to the people you are speaking to, they will give you hints about where their interest lie. Based on their interests, select something from the above list and tell them where Junior stands. Most Americans know very little about Junior.

noboma and MSM
Just another MSM example of untruths and outright lies.

Noboma is downright scary and what's even worse, there are people that should know better, are eating up all that noboma says.

Look at him very carefully, it's our country that is at stake.

McCain--Palin all the way!!

If it was up to
If it was up to Barack Hussein Obama, he would shut up anyone who is against him, remember his threats about people talking about his wife? He was so used to being a chicago thug, he thought it might work with people who actually think for themselves.
Barack will be the worst thing that has ever happened to this country, No I am not a Democrat and No I am not a Republican
I am a thinking person with a brain I use.

Gore was first

I can't imagine that no one else remembers this. I just did a search through the article and the posts, and did not find the word Gore at all.

I went on Google and found all the left wing posts say Gore never mentioned the name Horton, but did mention the furlough problem.

Does anyone else remember anything about this.
-----
Wikipedia says:
The first person to mention the Massachusetts furlough program in the 1988 presidential campaign was Al Gore. During a debate at the Felt Forum sponsored by the New York Daily News, Gore took issue with the furlough program. However, he did not specifically mention the Horton incident or even mention Horton's name, instead asking a general question about the Massachusetts furlough program.


Amen and Halleluiah
for THINKING PEOPLE THAT USE THIER BRAINS!!
WHOOHOOO!!!

Makes Right
To quote Maha Rushie: "If you put out a flaming bag of dog excrement the liberals will step in it every time." I would add that some even take a running start and O'Vomit does a little dance on the bag as well.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Go 'Cuda, GO!!

To Raquel ....
Que te pasa? I grew up in LA, I lived in Victoria Park and graduated from Carson High, 1977. All my best friends growing up were Mexican. I'm a gringo. I am no respecter of skin color. I would be more than happy to have you as a neighbor. I know I'd feel a lot safer with you around!. Preach it sister!

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Associations are a funny thing
It's interesting to watch Obama complain about being tied to his law-abiding-challenged friends, America hating pastor, and white-hating-caucasian-Catholic-priest, then, turn right around and attempt to tar McCain with some pseudo association. I'd like to use some old saying like "Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black," but I won't for fear of being labeled a racist.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Obama better hope
that Rush doesn't decide to take a little action of his own. Rush is loaded and has a cadre of talent around him. He could easily run a national ad disecting Obama. And face it, Obama is a child in diapers compared to Rush in experience and intelligence.

Racial Hate
The media would not ignore Macaca because they said it was meant as demeaning and was an example of how republicans felt towards minorities.

Real attempt to create racial division and the isn't a word.

We should be affriad of how the media has chosen sides. How can we trust them to report real news.

They allowed democrats to pretend they were duped, by the man they called stupid, on the links to Iraq and the war on terror. How many of these people had spent at least six years on the various intelligence committees then voted for going into Iraq?

pro from dover's a blatant racist


A knucklehead and racist is here to explain all about what he doesn't know. Look at his post. He doesn't even hide it.

Knucklehead
Racist

If that's the pro, what a comfort it is to know there are amateurs.

Dear Matriarch in CA


Just to be fair with you; maybe you never went to school, never learned the meaning of "elections."

The reason Obama is reaching out to Spanish-speaking people; and I mean AMERICAN CITIZENS who vote, and, who are entitled to speak Spanish if they please,

Is simple:

Obambi knows many Mexican-Americans & American Hispanics (legal voters, Matry--) are going over to McCain for these reasons------>

Obama doesn't fit their family values and many of them are cultural conservatives.

They're Pro-Life, anti-gay marriage, for low taxes, for victory in Iraq; and also

For a justly arranged amnesty program together with border enforcement. It seems good to these people that at LAST, the GOP is respecting Mexico and Mexicans. (Through McCain.)

You may not know this; there are many millions of 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here in the U.S. who are NOT ILLEGALS. Their close kinship with those illegal farm-workers and peons has them eager to see a fair amnesty, after all the hatred they've been receiving.

And, it's TRUE-- Rush & Hannity and Laura and others in talk radio have INDEED been guilty of promoting intolerance against those people! Obama's trying to exploit it now; he NEEDS the Hispanic vote!

dreadnaught...
You are correct that Hispanics, if they are citizens, may vote in the presidential election. You are also correct that these Hispanics may speak Spanish if they so choose. However, any person, of any ethnic or national origin, who has been in this country for, let's say, a year or more who cannot speak English well enough to understand a television commercial recorded in English, should not be allowed to vote. Any politician with any principles should disavow the possible votes he/she might get from someone who cannot speak English in America. English should be officially recognized as the language of the United States of America. That is not intolerance, as I did agree that Hispanics may speak Spanish whenever they so choose. It is simply common sense. We must maintain some standards in this country, or, bit by bit, we will spiral down into obscurity.

dreadnaught
If Rush has pushed intolerance toward anyone is has toward ILLEGAL aliens, not legal immigrants. Your post made is a little unclear whom you thought he is intolerant toward.

and another thing...
dreadnaught, do you really believe Obama's campaign was reaching out to AMERICAN CITIZENS with their Spanish language ad? What they were actually doing was playing on the fears of illegals who wish to continue to break our laws by remaining in this country, reaping the benefits of living here, and paying no taxes. They know that those illegals, who you rightly point out have ties to citizens in this country, will talk to those citizens with whom they have ties and beg and plead with them to vote for anyone who will get ICE off of their backs. They also know that there are many attempts at voter fraud underway by groups like ACORN, which will register illegals any way they can and bus them into the polling places so they can cast their votes for Obama. Dead people, felons, illegals, children, and others who should not be voting but do always cast their fraudulent votes for Democrats. Isn't that odd?

Macaca

Allen Location: CA
Reply # 36
Date: Sep 24, 2008 - 2:11 PM EST
Subject: Racial Hate
The media would not ignore Macaca because they said it was meant as demeaning and was an example of how republicans felt towards minorities.
===========

Senator Allen made a one word joke about one person, then apologized, but is still blamed for being the worst person in the world (to quote a TV idiot).

Vietnam Kerry made a multiple word joke about millions of servicemen, and refused to apologized, and the sickies on the left say that is just fine. And Pointy Hat Byrd was a member of a democrat organization that hung black people, but that just fine by the sickies on the left

Sen. Byrd’s experience in the KKK was the real reason he was qualified for his job as top in the democrat party. (Small letters and …rat is all they deserve.)

dreadnaught
You ought to try giving a listen before you start hurling invective at Rush. He’s real easy to find (see my previous post), and NOWHERE will you find criticism of immigrants who have arrived here the legal way. Our porous southern border IS a problem, not for the millions of hard-working family people who only seek better lives for themselves, but because it is a red carpet for terrorists who seek something a little less wholesome. If you ever listened, you wouldn’t be motivated to write such abominable falsehoods.

Facts
What a shame there are Republican adsters who would mislead. But shame on the Democrat adsters (and media) who ONLY mislead, because they must!
tbrown - Hot Springs

Frog
per your 12:45 post #7
That's easy to fix, my Lancashire born Granma said that phrase often in the dialect

"pon coin kekkle brunt arze"

11 years off
"The Willie Horton ads of 1999?"

Huh? Where's Bozell been hiding? Those ads -- granted, maybe a dozen people ever saw them -- were aired during the 1988 presidential election season, i.e., Bush vs. Dukakis. I don't think Dukakis was hurt by them because those who grasped the point weren't the sort of people who would have voted for him anyway.
But for the sake of credibility, Brent needs to be more in synch with reality.

LETS FACE IT! MCCAIN IS THE RIGHT CHOICE
THE WHITES THE BLACKS THE SPANISH,ETC ALL WILL BE BETTER OFF WITH MCCAIN-PALIN THAN WITH B.HUSSEIN!

Dear Ben is Right:


No one should assume illegal immigrants are voting in any appreciable numbers. They all have to live in the shadows. All they would do is blow their cover. And anyway, amnesty's coming from both sides of the aisle.

As for speaking Spanish. Every household is entitled to speak Spanish, and yet learn English. The biggest complaint in their homes is that the children don't want to speak Spanish! The 2nd generation is almost all English speaking. Naturally a peon working the orange groves has no way of learning English. He's not to blame. In order for him to qualify for amnesty, he has to learn! I'm with you on that. ONLY QUAIFIED applicants would receive amnesty. They also have to be self-sustaining and not felons.

I agree we shouldn't be providing bilingual forms at DMV, or anyplace. Most illegal aliens would likely accept it without a peep. It's liberals in every city who push that BS, just to pander to their Mexican-American constituents. Most of the liberals are Anglo-American Democrats who vote those measures in.

We need to elect Republicans of integrity. Not race-baiters; just people who understand the Latin community and treat people with respect.

Rush & Hannity have to cut back on the inflammatory rhetoric too. We're better than that crap!

Reply to Right is Might


First you: "If you ever listened, you wouldn’t be motivated to write such abominable falsehoods."

ME: I'm a conservative Republican, and I often listen to Rush Limbaugh. Also watch FoxNews; I listen to hot talk radio from SF in the mornings.

I love & admire Rush. I dislike Hannity. The worse demagogues are Lee Rogers & Melanye Morgan in an Francisco. (They're what O'Reilly refers to as "BLOOTERS.")

Hate to tell you, but going into the 2006 mid terms, all these radio blooters did the same song and dance for their listeners. We're going to LOSE our country to these evil invaders! They come over just to get on welfare! They're all ignorant and come from a 3rd world cess-pool! BUILD A FENCE!!!!

Over on Newsbusters.com, the hate speech was really scurrilous. "Nothing but rapists; they breed like rabbits. Moochers and cockroaches!"

I know what I'm talking about. It's not very American to HATE and reproach and denigrate people who come here to work. --Even if they enter illegally. We have to control the vile emotions of crazy extremists from the right.

Don't listen to them. That's all I say, and it's NOT "abominable."

off the deep end:
Ben Is says--

"What they were actually doing was playing on the fears of illegals who wish to continue to break our laws by remaining in this country, reaping the benefits of living here, and paying no taxes. They know that those illegals, who you rightly point out have ties to citizens in this country, will talk to those citizens with whom they have ties and beg and plead with them to vote for anyone who will get ICE off of their backs. They also know that there are many attempts at voter fraud underway by groups like ACORN, which will register illegals any way they can and bus them,"

This is a crock. You've let your xenophobia overcome your good sense, Ben. NOBODY needs the vote of an illegal immigrant, and you've fallen for the alarmists in our right wing FRINGE. Most of whom are flaming white supremacists and racists.

If you continue posting such nonsense, I won't deal with you as with intelligent Americans. You'll just be another hate-monger.

Interesting
Well, I guess people have to make a decision. Are we a nation of laws or do the laws of the land not matter?

If it's ok to violate the immigration laws, there are a few other laws I'd say let's toss out too.

I say let's eliminate laws that ban the carrying of concealed weapons and those that ban certain kinds of firearms. After all, if we're going to leave the doors open to anyone...we really will need to be armed. And we probably will need some extra firepower as well.

Let's eliminate the tax code too. I don't want to pay for someone else to free load on our economic system.

While we're at it, since they are coming here to work ... they should be able to pay for everything they want so let's eliminate welfare laws. I don't like those.

And before I get called a racist... my parents came to America legally, from Cuba, via proper channels, applied, and waited 5 years to enter the US LEGALLY.

I support LEGAL immigration. I do not support wanton anarchy or open borders. Come in through the front door, legally and you're welcome to come in. otherwise, you're not.

Why should anyone else be any different?

Dear Julio


Taken on its ordinary, legal aspect; what you say is true. You seem quite intelligent.

For myself, it's more a question of "love your neighbor" yet without enabling lawbreakers.

We are met now with a huge problem in logistics. Not deportation of several hundreds, but of possibly 9 million people. Not a casual undertaking. In order that this situation might be resolved; amnesty is the best way. We cannot deport that many people; some of them elderly and poor, some who would only RETURN as soon as they were able. How would our immigration authorities cope with deporting the same 3 or more million aliens they only finished deporting six months before? --ALSO:

Consider the expense.

Amnesty for those with qualifications is the only effective and humane thing we can do. We aren't a totalitarian society in which these people would be executed at dawn, just for daring to enter without passports.

The simplest most helpful solution is amnesty. --And, cover the border. Make it secure.

dreadnaught in CA
We don't have to deport anyone. If we enforce the laws against the employers all of the illegals will self-deport. No jobs, no handouts, no reason to stay here. If I were to steal your social security number, would that be okay with you? Would you be humane in allowing me to use your number to get a job, apply for credit, or buy a car?

Why don't you just save them the trouble of stealing your social security number and take a family or two into your home and support them? That would certainly show your humanity. I think that's the simplest most helpful solution.

Keep on dreaming, Matriarch



"If we enforce the laws against the employers all of the illegals will self-deport. No jobs, no handouts, no reason to stay here. If I were to steal your social security number,"

If your grandma had wheels we could ride her like a bike.

If you ever get a life, you'd face the facts. Our way of life is not threatened by making citizens of poor Mexicans picking fruit on American farms. They can just as easily become taxpayers.

Isn't it funny?
Most of the loudest mouths condemning Rush will admit to hardly, if ever, listening to the show. If they did it was to selected tapes provided by other Rush haters. There is NO secret code. Just turn on the radio. Be warned that it takes at least SIX weeks to really get the show even if you do like it.

It's EVENT-driven not topic-oriented. There are no guests and few recognizable call-ins like the President. He does it solo with no script. This is what he was born to do and nobody else could even try to do it.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Go 'Cuda, GO!!

American Demagogue
I seee Limbaugh's latest nonsense is to suggest that Obama's ancestry is actually Arab. One of the most shameful things about American culture today is the number of people who are gullible or hateful enough to take the likes of Limbaugh seriously.

Jerk in Oregon
Read Corsi's book!!! It's heavily footnoted. Unlike Kitty Kelly he NAMES all his sources so he can be checked. The book is still topping the NY Times sales charts (which is roasting a lot of gluteus at the Slimes) for good reason.

O'Vomit's mom was a whitebread atheist hippie from Kansas. His father was 3/4 Omani Arab and 1/4 black African from the Luo tribe of Kenya. The larger Kenyan tribe are the Kikuyu made famous in "Out of Africa". That makes O'Vomit 1/8 black African. He is NOT "African America" whatever THAT is supposed to mean.

He has NO connection to the Civil Rights movement through his father. He DOES have a link to the slave days from his mom whose great grandfather was a slave owner.

As for your idiot posts: Take a flying fornication at a revolving pastry!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Go 'Cuda, GO!!!

Obama is more Arab than Black African...
Wrat Wrangler in NY has it absolutely right.
No wonder names like Khalid Al-Mansour, Black Muslim and Black Nationalist and Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal have come to the fore.
Al-Mansour is an advisor to bin Talal, who happens to be one of the world's richest men.
bin Talal was the man whose check for $10 million was publicly refused by Rudy Giuliani.
Obama has stated his entrance and time at Harvard was as result of "hard work and student loans." Not so,a friend of Al-Mansour requested Obama's entry into Harvard. Obama has stated recently that his final student loan payment has been paid. He has never listed any student loan liabilities on his income tax returns. In 2004 he was required to make financial disclosure to run for US Senate. No mention of student loan debt he says was recently paid off.
In response to Hillary Clinton's campaign, Obama released seven years (7) of tax returns. No mention of interest paid on student loans.
The Obamas never declared one penny of interest paid on student loans. He has blocked any inquiries regarding his time or activity at Harvard. Khalid Al-Mansour has his money-raising connections in and out of the USA. Lots of dots need to be connected and Obama has kept silent on such matters.
Reference: Kenneth Timmerman, Sept.23,2008
printed in Newsmax."How Did Obama pay for his Harvard Law School education?"

Know the enemy

ohninoregon Location: OR
Reply # 56
Date: Sep 24, 2008 - 8:48 PM EST

number of people who are gullible or hateful enough to take the likes of Limbaugh seriously.

------

Just turn on MSNBC or the Hate America Radio network for 20 minutes, and you will hear more hate than on Rush for 20 years.

=========

And by the way, one day my Sweetie and I met Rush as he came out of a grocery store. He was polite, friendly, and we chated for a few moments.

========

I don't listen to Rush much because that would be like talking to the mirror. When I do listen to talk radio, I do turn on the Hate America Radio Network, as a means of knowing the enemy.

Oh, and by the way, how do you sickies on the left know so much about Rush since you never listen to him?


dreadnaught
I've had a very fulfilling life for 71 years and my grandma came from Sweden the legal way. How many of those illegals are you taking into your family???? I think most of the fruit, at least in California, is picked by machines.

dear matriarch


I'm 71 too. In all those years when I was usually poor, I never became poorer or richer because of the illegal aliens in this country. They never affected anything and I don't think they ever will.

I would like to know one thing. If the so-called 12 million illegal immigrants receive a path to citizenship; that is if an amnesty passes,

Will it take food off your table? Are you going to suffer? Tell us why.

I maintain that after an amnesty passes, our country will go back to everyday ho-hum existence.

I also maintain the reason so many folks insist on denying any amnesty to those illegals is simple. They hate members of another ethnic group. They just don't want them around.

It's not money or the economy. It's not welfare or the jobs. It's hatred.

Because none of those 12 million is interfering with anybody. They never harmed me or you. As citizens they'd be a benefit. They would be taxpayers.

dreadnaught, I get from your posts....
that you are nice person who, ultimately, seeks fairness and justice. However, what you are forgetting is history. The Democrats in Congress, along with a willing Ronald Reagan, passed an amnesty bill back in the mid 1980's. It was supposed to be a one-time deal where those who came here illegally could be streamlined on a path to citizenship.

Part of THAT provision was also an agreement to beef up border security so as to prevent future problems with undocumented workers. Well, you can see how well that worked out for us. The path to citizenship went through without a hitch, but border security became an afterthought. That is precisely what I fear would happen AGAIN.

As mentioned earlier, stiff fines and penalties should be brought upon any employer who knowingly hires illegal immigrants. As far as being individually affected by illegal immigration, I don't know that I can make a connection. However, we are collectively affected in many ways.

First is the increased tax burden. From anchor babies, to uninsured illegal drivers that kill and maim, to unpaid emergency room visits because they cannot be denied treatment.

Another way we are affected is through suppressed wages. It is thought that consumers save money because some employers costs are lower. But you and I both know that it really just means larger profits for the business' that are hiring illegals. Still, they drive down wages. The local town rag here was forced to raise the wage they paid for a required job when it was found they had hired about 50 illegal immigrants (stolen or fraudulent SSI cards).

Try to explain it any way you wish, compassion, fairness, whatever, illegal immigrants are a greater burden on our economy then they are a benefit.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Hi, FROG


Thank you for your thoughtful post. You've replied to me with courtesy and good will. More importantly, your good sense represents the anxiety of most fair Americans; as a counterpoint to my own anxieties. Yeah, there are two sides to every story.

I realize how true it is, the previous amnesty was our good will which failed to effect good border security. Some of the reasons for this failure come from government not taking care of us. Other reasons fall under the aegis of --believe it or not, LIBERTY.

Americans hawk liberty as our own never-ending gift to mankind, and we could take all the credit for it. Surely.

But next door to us in the Mexican republic, citizens are also quite free. Liberty's an even greater fetish for them; to a FAULT. When the law says "No trespassing," there will always be some macho man who thinks, "--Listen to the Gringo, he thinks I'm so servile I have to stay put here in dire need. Yet, if I travel a few days, he hires me to cut weeds and harvest his crops."

Mixed messages. We didn't understand that mentality the last time we allowed an amnesty. NOW we've learned.

Yet we can't just uproot 9 million people and send them home in boxcars, Frog. We have a fait accompli. Our best course is a newer and more COMPREHENSIVE, REFORMED immigration policy. Somebody has to get to work on a fool-proof and sensible plan. We don't have much of a choice.

Mexicans have a saying. "Amor con amor se paga." Meaning, "If you love me, I'll love you."

I have no doubt at all, our good will is going to earn us good will from our neighbors (everywhere in the world) a thousand-fold.

I think John McCain realizes that.

Ditto Frog
No more debate on this issue necessary. Illegal still means illegal in my dictionary. I get reminded of it often, such as when I do not wear a government mandated seat belt. They will go to extremes to police citizens with inane laws such as seat belt laws, because the government loves me and wants to protect me, because, afterall, I am just a dumb working, tax paying citizen, and enforcing inane laws on otherwise law abiding citizens is easy money. But, these same police will not even give a no drivers license ticket to an illegal who can drive a car without license, registration, or insurance that citizens are required to have, and are enforced with an iron fist. Even when an illegal smacks your car, and have no insurance, registration or drivers license, he will not go to jail, and you will suffer the loss, and if you have good insurance, and the illegal claims he was injured after his recklessness caused the accident, your insurance will be expected to pay his medical care.

What a country? It's a great deal if you are here illegally, you get to live as an anarchist and are above the law. Si! No Speaka English!! with a shrug will get you out of anything.

Ditto Wrat Wrangler in NY--Post #57
Tell'em Wrangler. Your reply to the Jerk in Oregon was right on. But, what can you expect from an Oregonian. That state was commandeered by Marxist Hippies beginning back in the 1960's and has gone down hill since.

I watch a few crime shows about serial killers and other murderers and it seems that many of them get their starts on the West Coast, from California up to Washington State. And, all these states on that Western Pacific border are all Socialist. I do not understand why anybody would want to live in police states that think they have to regulate everything from french fry grease (and I am not kidding) to what kind and size garbage can you can use, and what you can put in them, and tax them to death at the same time as they take their rights and freedoms and police their every behvior. And, at the same time breed serial killers. I suppose they just flip out and go on killing sprees because the states are so busy policing thier eating habits, etc. that a serial killer says, what to hell, they won't even notice me, as long as I put my seat belt on, and don't import any lard or other transfats which are treated as contraband and could land you in jail.

Ditto Wrangler, Post 57 to Oregon Nut
Tell'em Wrangler. Your reply to the Jerk in Oregon was right on. But, what can you expect from an Oregonian. That state was commandeered by Marxist Hippies beginning back in the 1960's and has gone down hill since.

I watch a few crime shows about serial killers and other murderers and it seems that many of them get their starts on the West Coast, from California up to Washington State. And, all these states on that Western Pacific border are all Socialist. I do not understand why anybody would want to live in police states that think they have to regulate everything from french fry grease (and I am not kidding) to what kind and size garbage can you can use, and what you can put in them, and tax them to death at the same time as they take their rights and freedoms and police their every behvior. And, at the same time breed serial killers. I suppose they just flip out and go on killing sprees because the states are so busy policing thier eating habits, etc. that a serial killer says, what to hell, they won't even notice me, as long as I put my seat belt on, and don't import any lard or other transfats which are treated as contraband and could land you in jail.

Ditto Sam in Pa
I read that same piece about Obama and the Muslim Connection from the Sauidis. This, of course, is not surprising. Obama can hide behind his conversion to Christianity which I am sure his handlers told him he would need to do for political purposes, given he was living in the United States and had political ambitions, and America has traditionally been a Christian nation. But, look at the church he chose. He found one that perfectly matched his radical Islamic Jihad or Holy War on The Infadels, and America is the Great Satan.

The Good Right Reverend Jeremiah Wright's so-called Christian Church, teaches the exact same message as do the Radical Muslims. Listen to Jeremiah Wright's sermons of "GD the United States and GD Whites and his Whitey Society." Sounds exactly like the midget of Iran when he speaks of our country. Then, Obama chooses as his mentor, Bill Ayers, and avowed communist convicted to terrorism against the United States, and shows his disdain for this country by standing and stomping our flag, then burning it.

Watch Obama before his handlers coached him. He would not put his hand over his heart, nor stand near a U.S. Flag, and in one speech said, that the U.S. Flag stands for opression to many, and therefore he would not honor it.. He has shown on too many occasions his true sentiments. And, his reason for wanting to be president are obvious. He hates the country and all it's traditions, values, customs and our constitution. He is a hand picked puppet of the Extreme Left and enemies of the United States.

He is an enemy, not just a presidential contender. And, his hatred for whites, may be squelched right now, but you cannot tell me that he had a change of heart and abandoned his early teachings which he continued to follow, until he announced his run for the presidency after only 143 days served in the U.S. Senate.

Be afraid of Obama, Really Afraid. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e

dreadnaught!!!
I don't know where you live in CA, but I've lived in Socal all my life (all 73 years of it!), and I've seen so many changes here (not all positive by any means!) that I find it hard to believe that you're so naive about the impact illegal immigration has had on this state alone! No, I haven't lost any food off my table, but that's not the point! Are you aware of the financial impact the illegals have had on our economy in terms of the health care, education and other systems in this state alone?! Those oft-hidden items are not always visible to most of us, but they're still there at the "bottom line"!

And no, I for one do not hate those of other ethnic groups, and don't tell me to "get a life"! And no, I do not support "grant them all amnesty"! Ridiculous! The 1986 "Amnesty Bill" didn't work because it was never enforced! And look at us now! More illegals wherever one looks. We allow them to demonstrate, waving the flags of countries of their origin! Let's allow Fedex to track them down for us! Fedex can track thousands of packages DAILY and know where any one of them is on any given day! Let these folks (the illegals) get in line to become citizens. Let them learn the English language so we don't have to print everything in their native tongue! Those who came through Ellis Island truly wanted to become Americans! If they really want to be citizens of this great country, have them do it the RIGHT way!

Dear Lightning, Sir


I definitely understand. You and I aren't far apart.

I think we should keep deporting illegal entrants out of this country. Forever.

I just don't think it's so Christian or even American to DEMONIZE them, or think of them as beasts. They're human beings and many of them are desperately poor. ALL of them, just about-- want to WORK here in this country.

And, as to the cost of this problem;

If those who are already established here (with roots) get a chance to become citizens;

They'll help offset the expense by paying taxes. If we SHOOT those poor people; NO TAXES.

Besides, I don't believe in shooting people for such funny crimes as washing dishes in your neighborhood Claim Jumpers.


dreadnaught
Appreciate your response. No, I don't think they should be shot either! I'm not sure what you mean by "demonizing" them. That's certainly not my intent. I definitely do not advocate shooting them either!

I don't believe ALL of them want to work, and very few of them came here to pick fruit! Many of them come to this country to become recipients (often not LEGALLY) of our many benefits. Witness the numbers in any hospital ER. Surely you're aware that many ER's have had to close because they can't afford to provide "free" services. I worked in the unemployment insurance field for the State (Calif), and there were countless numbers of illegals who attempted to file for that benefit with stolen or fraudulent SSA cards!

I firmly believe that if we immediately deported them as they came across the border; if we severely sanctioned the employers who hire them (even for "funny crimes" of washing dishes in a local Claim Jumper!); if any benefit otherwise available to them were UNavailable; if "anchor babies" was no longer a valid "reason" for allowing them to remain here; if the doors of schools were shut; if free health services in ERs ceased to exist, you would see fewer crossing the border, and many (most?) would go "home" wherever that might be! Self-deportation would work! Yes, you're right, they are human beings. Most definitely. But to be treated humanly, let them come LEGALLY so they can LEGITIMATELY enjoy the wonderful fruits of this GOD-BLESSED country! What say you? Wherever YOU are, make it a great day!

lightning and his world


In fact, Lightning-- all you've done on your post is demonize; marginalize the illegal immigrants, and give it your best hate speech.

That means you only despise these people. Any excuse will do. The so-called benefits you're worried about are merely the pretext you need for hating an entire ethnic group.

Did you even try to exonerate a few of these people before dumping? No.

You won't even accept the premise they come to work! This shows the bias of your state in life; a white supremacist's POV. And your rant attacks anchor babies! Innocent human beings born here and definitely LEGAL Americans!

To you they not only aren't Americans, they're another pretext for your hate speech. You're a pathetic human being. I haven't branded you one;

Your own words make it plain.

-

dreadnaught
What is your problem? You do not respond to any specifics. I think you cannot back up your ideas with rationalization so you label everyone. You evidently do not understand what you read, or do not retain it long enough to type your reply.

Wanting to see the law upheld is not hate. What other laws would you like to see disregarded? Several times it has been pointed out to you that Obama's ad was targeted at people who do "not" speak English and you continue to accuse everyone of hating Spanish speaking people. Get a grip.

So far you have maligned my grandmother, accused me of not having a life, and "just to be fair" assumed I have not been to school. I think you pay lip service to being a caring person. You only seem to care about illegals. It is my perspective that liberals attack everyone on a personal level rather than discussing issues. Of course, I may be giving you the benefit of the doubt calling you a liberal rather than using your method of personal attack.

dreadnaught
Well now, you certainly have "cut to the chase"! Would you like to explain why citing the legality of something, as I did, makes me a racist? I would say the same thing of anyone breaking the law, whether white, yellow, or??? If someone breaks some other law, because they are of a different ethnic extraction, can we not say they should pay the "penalty" for what they did? Are we always "racist" because we speak out against a law-breaker?

On the one hand, you say they should be deported, but that's not racist? No, I am not racist. I'm merely stating facts. If you're not able to deal with facts in a discussion, then there's definitely no objective in attempting to engage in some type of rational discussion/debate. Personally, I wouldn't remotely try to label someone as being "racist" simply because they disagreed with me.

You're so far out "on a limb" that you call me a "white supremacist"...very interesting. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MY ETHNIC HERITAGE IS! You know nothing of my background, experiences, etc., but you're very quick to label and call names! My intent in posting on these "threads" is to hopefully engage in intelligent, rational discussion with those who hopefully have the same intentions. My intent is not to "shoot from the hip" as you seem willing to do. BTW, I did NOT say none of them want to work...perhaps you should read what someone says more carefully BEFORE you draw any conclusions and start "shooting"! I certainly will express my opinions, and hopefully be able to back those up with FACT(s). What about you?

dreadnaught...some additional thoughts
Just as an afterthought...please note that I did not say so-called "anchor-babies" are not Americans! The constitution says that they are! I do not dispute that.

I assume that you are a Christian? I don't know. But how is it that you can impute something to someone, presumably being able to look into one's "heart" and know of a certainty what is therein?

Also, would you explain what "demonizing" is? And moreover, how have I demonized the illegals according to whatever your definition is?! How have I "marginalized" them according to your definition?!

Finally, and hopefully you will understand what I am saying...ALL ethnic groups are entitled to come to this country, LEGALLY! If they are willing to do it the right way, then I wholeheartedly welcome them here as a BROTHER/SISTER. Is that being racist?!


your over-reaction is touching


Dear Lightning,

You seem very willing to engage me in a discussion of racism. You came to the right place.

I see you arguing over what you say is "being racist"--

When what I say is, you have a white supremacist POV, point of view.

Were you called a racist? NO-- I say you're a pathetic human being. After you read off several denigrating and unfair arguments against a foreign ethnic group, you can't even understand you've demonized them.

I say something analogous about "IF your grandma were a BIKE--" IF, IF-! which I know isn't true;

You call it maligning that person, But when you extravagantly malign a whole country, Mexico and its people, you still wonder what I meant by "demonize" --??? Clearly, you're a pathetic human being, that's all.

reply to matriarch


Please don't be so upset, Matriarch.

This is a country with a long history of racial injustice. I'm not implying you're to blame. You appear to forget what injustice is. So much that, when you see it you condone the outcome under pretext of LAW. You see open hatred as understandable, since the crime deserves that.

I have no love for law-breakers, they need to be dealt with. I do NOT see justice when they're regarded as unworthy of your charity or help. If I notice Americans who are fat and sassy, living well--

--going to extremes vilifying poor people who came here defenseless and without a voice-- it tells me that's an injustice.

Because the law's on their side, some Americans can be brutally judgmental. They can act superior and unmerciful. They're possessive and jealous, sometimes.

I see that as a human weakness. The day must come when we'll be before the judgment seat, confronted by God. He has no respect for nations or citizenships. He sees our hearts. To Him, that peon was a son whom you treated as somebody else's responsibility. You kicked him out.

You kicked out His SON, Jesus Christ.

P.S. to Lightning


About this:

"I worked in the unemployment insurance field for the State (Calif), and there were countless numbers of illegals who attempted to file for that benefit with stolen or fraudulent SSA cards!"

REPLY:

You had one recourse; to DENY these people an unemployment benefit.

In fact; that's all. It was not your option to PRESUME they had stolen ID's or even borrowed them. Only that they applied for benefits. Furthermore, you have no way at all, without proof-- of KNOWING who was a citizen, and who was an illegal immigrant. You have no rap sheet or evidence. Except that the "card" was not theirs.

If you jump to the conclusion in 20 cases, it's likely 15 of those were legally in the U.S. You relied on prejudice, profiling "countless numbers" of people.



dreadnaught
You still insist in calling names and labeling! YOU "presume" I don't know what I'm talking about. You're adroit at evading facts and factual statements. You seem to always resort to name-calling/labeling when you're unable to objectively respond. Very sad indeed.

FYI, the State had a system engaged to check EVERYONE'S SSA# to determine its RIGHTFUL ownership when ANYONE applies for unemployment benefits. It also has a fraud division to go deeper into the matter, and voila!...it can determine if the SSA# belongs to someone else! I.E., determine its authenticity and that of the person claiming it is theirs. And you know what? It can also be determined if that person is legal or not! When a claim is filed, no one "presumes" anything! The SSA# is run through the system and SSA determines that end of it. The State's fraud system then does its job to follow-through further. It's very interesting that you seem to know so much about the subject! Did you likewise work for the State?!

YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT RACE I AM DO YOU? You seem to avoid that topic don't you? Does that thought trouble you? You stated that I "extravagantly malign(ed) a whole country, Mexico and its people"! I don't believe I said anything about the country, or its people in general. I was addressing only the matter of legality/illegality, specifically! And, if as you say, I am displaying a "white supremacist POV", wouldn't that make me a racist? You brand me (and perhaps others?) as a "pathetic human being" simply because I speak factually. Does the truth bother you dreadnaught? Do facts confuse you? It would be a genuine pleasure to go through the facts one-by-one and have an intelligent, rational and objective discussion, WITHOUT the irrational labeling/name-calling. Wouldn't that be the mature, adult way of approaching something?

dear lightning


You're accusing me falsely. I have NOT "labeled" you; I said you argue from the same point of view as white supremacists. What is that POV?

That illegals are NOT all coming to work; but that some "numbers" come to cash in on benefits or consume our rightful goods. A VENAL way of judging poor people as inferiors. That there are SWARMS of them at our nation's ER's-- a fib. In an ER, they make no inquiry to support such accusations. Everything is done more or less confidentially. You decide by racial profile, not evidence.

That they are by rights just illegal, and deserve no consideration as genuine human beings; they're "ciphers" in our great & righteous society, who'll deteriorate it or make it evil.

When in fact, that's mere racial prejudice. Many more are truly good neighbors anywhere they live. You don't acknowledge it.

Why should I be made aware of your ethnic type? You may worry over mine, but I don't call it important. I'm an American!

My only concern is racial justice. You can keep yours private. Or, challenge me on it. I only said you're a pathetic human being; the conclusion reached from reading your words. Change those words, and I'll change my opinion.


ah..dreadnaught...
Please note your language in your post #71, that I possess a "white supremacist POV". By definition that would make me a racist would it not?! You call me a "pathetic human being" simply because I state facts regarding illegal immigration?! At least you referred to me as a human being! I have never said anything about illegals not being human beings, nor anything about them being inferior. And I'm sure that many of them do make "good neighbors" wherever they might reside. But, I too easily forget your obvious tendency to "read" other meanings into what one says! I also note that you did not respond to anything about what I said regarding the UI issue! Unable to contradict what I said? Regarding ER's in hospitals, I also know whereof I speak. I was in the health care field for several years and still personally know many doctors, nurses and administrators in that field. They could easily back up my comments, but that probably makes no difference to you either.

I learned throughout my undergraduate and graduate years in college, that one will encounter all kinds of individuals who will attempt to dispute what one says on any given subject, regardless whether they know anything about the subject! They will argue, if nothing else, on an emotional level (which most liberals are good at!) totally disregarding logic, sensibility, fact, etc, etc. I know not where you fit on the political spectrum (nor does it truthfully matter to me), but you seem to fit the "mold" quite well. BTW, again whether it makes any difference to you, when I was in college and a member of a fraternity, my "brothers" were of various racial/national extractions. They were ALL my brothers, bar none! Hispanic, white, black, Asian...it didn't matter! Of course, you probably can't accept that as FACT either, can you?! Adios amigo!

Dear Lightning,


My background is far from the academic parts you've learned in. For which I'm kind of thankful. You and I share some beliefs, and we part ways in others.

I reject notions of iron-clad rules applied to others because the professor made you learned and elitist. My convictions are formed in the heart. It doesn't mean you're unimportant.

What it means is your experience has rendered you indifferent to the other person's experience. And his needs. You are typical of the American of our day, whose life revolves around the "bottom line," and I mean the bank balance. I am well-educated and yet somewhat erudite. An auto-didact, unspoiled by sophists at the university level. Maybe that explains our differences. I don't cling to material standards; I can put them aside. Good people are more important to me, and always will be.


dreadnaught
No, my education has not rendered me indifferent to others needs and/or experience. Far from it. What I did not include in prior comments is that the majority of my professional career was spent as a counselor/psychotherapist. That meant that I was trained to listen intently what another was saying/writing. I learned not to prejudge or impute motives to my clients. My therapy was non-directive, so I never led anyone to accept my beliefs or otherwise.

My role was as a "helper" to aid that person to achieve whatever goals they might have, or to help them out of some type of dilemma with which they were confronted.

Contrary to what you apparently think, there are certain "iron-clad rules" in life, which I never attempted to impose upon anyone. But they do provide a framework for me in my life...such as the Ten Commandments!

In my education, I never accepted everything I was taught, "hook, line, and sinker". I was taught Christian values in my childhood, and the values, morals and beliefs from that rearing have always been part of my daily living. I always attempt to integrate those beliefs into whatever I do in life.

I am not interested in the "bottom line" solely in my life. It depends upon the context wherein the "bottom line" should play a role.

I don't know what your evaluation is of the "typical American" today. Apparently, you perceive them as being only interested in the "bottom line" when it comes to a "bank account". Whatever.

The "bottom line" is important depending upon once again, the context.

In any event dreadnaught, I have attempted to engage you in a meaningful dialogue, but I think it has been largely unfruitful.

Regardless, wherever you go in life, attempt to make it a good day for yourself, and hopefully those around you! That's my modus operandi. Adios...finis

dear lightning,


I'm happy to hear how well you conform to the conventional form of empathy/comprehension/judgment.

Maybe then you aren't so typical. I have to challenge your notion that somehow we didn't have any meaningful dialogue. We did.

I suppose you think it isn't meaningful because I don't see how we're being over-run by illegal aliens. We do have a greater number than previously. You've concluded I guess, that they'll destroy all our institutions.

I see it as the glass half-full. I think we even need a larger glass than before, since events have overtaken America. If only race weren't a factor in these events and confrontations. I hear people such as you protesting you only support a legal point of view.

I see this more as the loss of humane responsibility on the part of our society. Not everybody; but large parts of it. And for this I owe nothing to the academic community. I observe it.

Anyway; oftener than not it's campus radicals who intend to destroy our country. They undergo indoctrination in anti-establishmentarian protest as never before. I'm happy to hear you weren't turned upside-down.



dreadnaught
I think you're probably right about my comment on "meaningful dialogue". There was some meaningful elements to it. The fact that you don't agree with me on everything is just fine. That doesn't make the dialogue any less meaningful. In any discourse/debate, there isn't always going to be unanimity. That's OK!

To set the record straight, I definitely have not concluded that they (illegals) will "destroy all our institutions". There are many stresses/"burdens" placed upon many of our institutions, and not just by illegals.

I definitely agree with you regarding "campus radicals"...many of them would dearly love to destroy our country through the indoctrination of students across this land. That applies not only in the arena of "higher"(?) education, but to secondary education as well. Perhaps it reaches down into the lower grades as well. Things are certainly much different than when I was in college, or even in elementary school! That's a chapter in itself reserved possibly for someone's book in the future!

.
I think it's fair to say Limbaugh is a very prejudice man. I've always been a fan but when he goes on a rant about illegals - he really means Mexicans, it's embarrassing. McCain proved how much of a racist he really is he his smears and innuendo and the Nazi like camp meetings disgusted me so much I voted democrat for the first time since carter - SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE McCain is a angry tottering old racist.. Let's hope this turns out better. Waffle house waitresses could do a better job then the clowns of the last 8 years.

Willie Horton?
Bit of a stretch, but Rush is a businessman. The more his ratings drop the more radical he will get to try to get the money back.

Good luck Rush. Remember when you used to be entertaining?
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