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Friday, May 09, 2008
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Librarians Against Censorship?
by Brent Bozell
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The American Library Association (ALA) has released its annual survey of offenses to "intellectual freedom," the books whose place in public schools and public libraries is the most "challenged" by the public. Leading that list for the second straight year is the children's book "And Tango Makes Three," about a penguin family with two daddies.

Several books on the ALA list are perennially controversial, from "Huckleberry Finn" with its racial issues to Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" with its rape scenes. Some controversial tomes are newer, like atheist Philip Pullman's anti-God "The Golden Compass."

Overall, the ALA reported the number of library challenges dropped from 546 in 2006 to 420 last year, well below the mid-1990s, when complaints topped 750. But oddly, the ALA also acknowledged that its data collection is terrible: For every "challenge" listed, about four to five "go unreported."

It is quite apparent who the ALA believes to be the heroes and villains of this struggle. There are the avatars of intellectual freedom, the brave souls who champion open-mindedness, and then there are the censorious busybodies. Some have made the obvious point that challenging libraries to provide titles they're not stocking would turn the tables and make people realize that librarians can also be censorious in the titles they choose not to display. The mere act of selecting some books and excluding others is a "censorious" act.

Press accounts leave out that the ALA not only disdains the public "challenges," it lobbies on the books' behalf. In 2006, the two-penguin-daddy "And Tango Makes Three" was honored as an ALA Notable Children's Book. The librarians' group isn't simply for "freedom." It's for sexual liberation, promoting the "non-traditional," and it takes offense at the idea that parents might not want their children discussing homosexuality in kindergarten. Simon & Schuster, the publishers of "Tango," offer discussion questions about the book on their website. One says: "Tango has two fathers instead of the traditional mother and father. Do you have a nontraditional family, or do you know someone who does?"

Already we can predict how the ALA next year will complain about any objection to a book called "Uncle Bobby's Wedding," the story of a young guinea pig who worries that her Uncle Bobby won't play with her anymore after he "marries" his boyfriend Jamie. The book ends at the "wedding," with Chloe as the enthusiastic flower girl.

In other words, the ALA doesn't favor open discussion and debate with parents -- which is what the "challenges" represent. Its idea of "freedom" is emboldening librarians to be brave enough to indoctrinate children with what they really need to know, whether their parents object or even know about it. If public debate follows, it's viewed as a distasteful and unfortunate bump on the road to enlightenment.

In fact, this year the ALA has created a "Rainbow List" of books, a bibliography of current books for children "from birth through age 18 dealing with the myriad of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered or questioning issues."

The librarians of the ALA's Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered Round Table have expressed frustration in not finding enough "rainbow" books on the shelves meeting the "vital need" for "quality books ... that validate same-gender lifestyles." And then, in their lobbying crusade, the anti-censorship folks display their own censorious stripes:

"The search for these books was eye-opening, revealing a lack of accessibility through missing subject headings and the promotion of inappropriate titles insulting to the GLBTQ population including such books as 'A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality.'"

They only want to allow titles such as "Hear Me Out: True Stories of Teens Educating and Confronting Homophobia." Intellectual freedom is certainly not an ALA priority if the lobbying librarians themselves worry out loud about "the promotion of inappropriate titles."

ALA and its gay roundtable of political correctness promote a document calling for the exclusion of negative stereotypes: "In our homophobic society any work dealing with a gay theme is prone to include cliches and preconceptions of 'gay character.' It would be excellent to have a reviewer who is proudly self-identified as gay examine relevant books to point out negative stereotypic attitudes when they occur and to make suggestions as to how the librarian can best counteract such stereotypes."

Doesn't this sound like librarians want to appoint a guardian to screen out and counteract "negative stereotypic attitudes"? In other words, an official censor?

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About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
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Walking On A Double-Edged "Pen"...
The problem with this criticism is that their is a belief that books that aren't read by children, but rather by adults aren't being challenged. In case you hadn't heard, there was a big case in Marshall, Missouri where a graphic novel called "Blankets" was being challenged for removal from the Marshall library. That includes not even being allowed in the adult fiction section.
Yes, there is an unusually annoying amount of political correctness when it comes to censorship, but you end up balancing upon a double-edged sword (or, in this case, "pen" because the pen is mightier than the sword, get it?) What is the difference between pandering to PC thugs and serious risks to our freedom to read whatever we want? That's the question I put on this table.

7Sticks, Your question is on point;
in fact, the problem is that the PC librarians won't allow the other side of the debate (in this instance, those against homosexuality) to be stocked in the library. As usual, it's their way only.

library insanity
Once when I was at the library with my son he pointed out to me that a boy who looked to be about 10 was looking at porn on-line.

The library felt it was censorship to have blocks to porn sites in the childrens library. Eventually they got them.

One time when I was checking out I requested to see my son's account. He was in grade school at the time. I wanted to make sure nothing was overdue. The librarian wouldn't let me see the screen. When I questioned this I was told that someone's kid had gotten material at the library that their parents had objected to. So the library's response was to block parents from knowing what books their children have checked out!

I asked the librarian if I was still responsible for fines my child might acrue?


Sanity has left the building.

And as we have seen in CA, only the
children's computer access is SOMETIMES blocked.
Adults can view all the kiddie porn and hard core porn they want, any time the library is open. IF that leads someone to molest a child - that is their business and the library will NEVER call the police - even tho kiddie porn is ILLEGAL IN ALL 50 states! (I do wonder IF the library will call the police if a molestation occurs or do they think that is just additional education??)

Check it out at your local library. I found one guy here in Indiana that was viewing kiddie porn. Librarian told him to stop and REFUSED to call the police. Next time, I will do that instead.

Does anyone now doubt...
... the wisdom of our grandfathers: that sex is best confined to bedrooms (and closets)? Give me the 'Ozzie & Harriet' world any day of the week. The fact that forms of sexual activity have become political rallying cries is signal only that Hugh Hefner won. The 'Playboy Philosophy' replaced adult common sense... and we are now so absorbed with sex that we can't be entertained, look at anyone, consider an issue, or even educate our kindergarteners without reference to it.

Librarians,
like any other human with power, tend to abuse it. Why are we surprised that the guardians of true free thought are guarding their own version of it and bristle at any oversight?

It isn't just about sex
The "PC filter" for library book selection extends across the entire spectrum. For instance, my local library's politics section (the 300s in Dewey) includes no books on the "gun control" debate that could be defined as remotely pro-Second Amendment. It does, however, include Michael Bellisles' book "Arming America", which was proven to be a work of academic fraud several years ago.

Books about the JFK assassination abound- as long as they are ones insisting on a "vast right-wing conspiracy" to kill him. (No books even suggesting that Jack was shot by a disgruntled Communist-wannabe who was torqued off at him for humiliating Khrushchev and Castro a year earlier.)

Ditto for the RFK assassination; conspiracies from the right. (Never mind that Sirhan has maintained for forty years that he killed Bobby for being too pro-Israel: I mean, he has to be lying, doesn't he?)

Oh, and in fiction, don't look for anything by Ayn Rand. She's not considered a "real" author. As opposed to, say, Gore Vidal.

When most librarians claim they are "against censorship", they really mean "we're against people being exposed to ideas the ALA doesn't approve of."

And the definition of that is?

Anybody?


cheers

eon

These hypocrites
The librarians are wanna be intellectuals who are among the most insipid of the practitioners of political correctness. How dumb can they get is the real question. But trust McCain to increase spending on "education" and no doubt pandering to this discrete interest group, as he will to illegals, liberals, and African Americans.

Slewed Censorship
I have noticed that the annual censorship week posters omit the most censored book in the world, the Bible, only including the books that are "approved" by the ALA.

Kids need the truth, not political correctness, therefore, this might be rephrased:

"indoctrinate children with what they really need to know"
to be
"indoctrinate children with what they wish them to know"

Newspeak
"...inappropriate titles insulting to the GLBTQ population"

Illiberal books are never "censored." They're just considered "inappropriate."

ALA/KINTERGARDEN?
I don't understand how the ALA dictates what books children study or read in school.

If you don't want your children checking out these books and reading them then keep track of what they are doing and restraintheir behavior.

If your local library is engaegd in dubious liberal censorship then speak to the county council or city council that controls the library.

Now
the conservative right-wingers are gong after the libraries, apparently teachers, college professors and intellectuals aren't enough.

I work at a library - libraries provide the books people are asking for - and they don't request erotica, promn or bomb-making instruction manuals. It is not the job of a library to dictate what people read. Vic is right, if you don't want your kids watching porn on the library computer, go with him next time.

If libraries followed the wishes of the crackpot minority, we would never have purchased Harry Potter, not to mention Mark Twain, Judy Bloom, or Shakespeare. If we were to censor rape, unmarried sex, torture, fratricide, infanticide, illigitmacy, we could no longer carry the bible.

This columnist should grow up and stop playing on the fears of the ignorant.

Freedom of Information
Everyone raises interesting questions. But much in the same way the Internet should be free and unregulated, libraries, as repositories of knowledge, should similarly be free and unregulated.

A lot of people claim that censorship of some kind should be instituted. That perhaps porn shouldn't be shown on Library computers. I have some serious problems with that:

1. Free flow of information is always a necessity, and porn is not one of the kinds of information a free society considers should be kept secret (DoD files, patents, etc.)

2. Anyone who looks at porn in a public library in front of lots of people has some serious issues.

It is the argument I always raise against conservative friends who think that "women who dress like prostitutes" in a sense deserve what's coming to them-

"Who gets the punishment?"

If you're stupid enough to look at porn in a public library, then it's not WE who should be denied the right, but the person who looked at it should. I want my right to look at porn- just as I will not exercise it. Isn't that what the country is built on?

Claiming a moral high ground and seeking to deny books and information the chance to be written and read is a denial of freedom. Any "moralism" should ALWAYS be taught at the User level, not denied. Isn't the kid who chooses not to look at porn probably going to be better at avoiding the troubles it brings than a kid who doesn't look simply because he can't get access?

I leave that question to you guys,

Bozo Brent writes
" But oddly, the ALA also acknowledged that its data collection is terrible: For every "challenge" listed, about four to five "go unreported."
---------

Not so odd in the world of grown-ups, actually, challenges run all the way from formal letters by organized groups to toss-off complaints by injury-collecting parents. Every comment cannot be recorded, nor should it be.

I know conservatives would love to be in charge of all reading material available to the rest of us, but until you get the congress and the presidency back, it ain't gonna happen.

Vic
"I don't understand how the ALA dictates what books children study or read in school."


It doesn't. this is just a fear-mongering lie. At the most, schools inform libraries of upcoming term projects and materials that will be either required or useful so that libraries can make those materials available to students.

It's a form of insurrection, Lol. Think of us as terrorists in sensible shoes.


Eon
"The "PC filter" for library book selection extends across the entire spectrum. For instance, my local library's politics section (the 300s in Dewey) includes no books on the "gun control" debate that could be defined as remotely pro-Second Amendment. "


If you don't like the book about Gun control that your library has, all you have to do is request the book or books that you want. If your library is a branch that is part of a larger system, all the books in the system are available to you. If it isn't, the books you want will go onto a list of purchases for the next round of orders.

don't just go home and then complain on TH - libraries are well aware that they are tax-supported, and want to accomodate their users.

Maybe Its a Quota Thing
Maybe Bozell has to write something ridiculous three times a week in order to stay on TH. That might explain this kind of truly misleading tripe.

For one thing, Bozell spends a bit of time whining about what schools and publishers do with the works in question, as if the ALA has some influence or control over that.

He mentions one book on the ALA notable list from 2006, but provides no perspective. The ALA notable list is HUNDREDS of books long. This is it? This is the grave transgression of the ALA? One book out of 600 in the last three years trangresses against right wing sexual paranoia and the ALA is the next best thing to the Communist party?

One could laugh as Bozell's claptrap if it didn't give rise to more and more urban myths designed to inflame the right wing. For example, I challenge eon to verify which library he is talkign about, because I doubt very much he is telling the truth about what is or isn't in his local library. No Ayn Rand? Show me.

7 sticks
"What is the difference between pandering to PC thugs and serious risks to our freedom to read whatever we want? That's the question I put on this table."


this is not a serious question, and I suspect you know it. It's like asking you, "what is the difference between giving our power-mad, fascist president the right to executive priviliege secrecy and the right of the American people to know what is being done to hurt them?"

the notion being put out here that libraries are dictating PC materials is specious and a consummate lie.

7 Sticks, if you're so concerned that your library is being run by crooks,why don't you talk to them, or go the next board meeting? Or is it more fun to just whine on TH?

I don't know the specifics of the Graphic ovel - I think I'll look it up - we also really did have PC religionists trying to have the Harry Potter books removed, so anything can happen. And, as for PC readers, there are always plenty of requests to have anything that is remotely atheistic removed, or even copies of the Koran, but these same "concerned readers" never complain about anything Christian even if it a piece of literary trash.

Ph.D., J.D.
I'll just bet you wake up every morning and immediately consult TH to find out what you're supposed to be thinking and how you're supposed to think about it.

There is an old saying that the human brain is like a sponge - well, it's abvious you can suck up you can sewage just as easily as you can absorb facts.

My suggestion is that you start trying to sort out the two before you speak or write.

Jack
I agree with you.

But for every stupid coluymn Bozell writes there are always a choir of gullible posters who fall into the tsk-tsk reflex and suck it up like air. (which, it terms of substance, it pretty much is).

Well said, ex-Wyo
I wonder if BB3 has actually been to a library recently or who exactly these "quotes" are attributed to. He conveniently skips mentioning who uttered those "quotes". I know its only anecdotal evidence, but after seeing this column I decided to take a quick walk around the corner from my office to the library branch. Take one guess as to which publication they have the most copies of. If your answer was the Bible, specifically KJV, you'd be correct. I made two other requests of the librarian (a white woman, 50ish, reading a copy of the NYT when I walked up to her): one, a couple of books on the topic of gun control and two, 'A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality', whose author's name I didn't know. Her answer to the first question was 'More Guns, Less Crime', 'Guns, Crime, and Freedom' and a book called 'Outgunned'. As for the second request, I'll admit, she looked at me a little funny when I asked for it. But, she looked it up, told me they didn't have it but could request it from another library if I wanted it. Like I said, anecdotal evidence, but the fact that it only took a 15 minute walk around the corner (in Philadelphia, not exactly conservative turf) to find a library that would conform to BB3's standards makes ex-Wyo's point.

Almost forgot...
didn't have to ask for Ayn Rand. There was a copy of 'Atlas Shrugged' sitting in the recently returned books bin on her desk, ironically next to a copy of 'It Takes a Village' by you know who. Where other than the library are you likely to see those two books together.

think
Your posts suggest that you don't necessarily think for yourself. In light of that, what sources inform your worldview?

Would you people get a life?
I don't know what your kids read and I don't care. I am just happy they are actually literate and seek to expand their knowledge and personal growth through reading.

Parental control. In my town, the library is downtown, away from most of the population. Someone has to take the child to the library. Are you exercising parental control or just dragging your knuckles? Don't like the book your kid wants to check out? I don't know of too many parents who can't dominate their 6 and 7 year olds. It is known as Parental Control.
By the same token, if a kid is big enough to get to the library himself, find something that peaks his (not your) interest, and checks it out, it is a sign he is growing up and maturing.

My son is a darling of the Right, i.e. rabidly conservative. I don't like his political persuasion or his attitudes. I can't remember ever saying to him "you can't read that". I may have redirected him to age appropriate vocabulary, but that was the extent of my censorship. I don't like him at this stage of his life, but I love and respect him as my son. His emotional maturity is about where mine was at his age.

If I were BB, he would have grown to be a mental midget without the ability to develop and grow as a human being.




ALA
I "challenged" our county library on "Arming America", sending a long item by one of the first guys to bust it, Clayton Cramer. Would this be reported as "challenging" or attempted censorship?
Anyway, demonstrating that they're carrying lies didn't seem to interest the local folks. They're still carrying five copies.
I discovered, which you can do with most county systems, how many copies of books which interest me they carry.
The awful "Confessions of An Economic Hit Man"--see the reviews at Amazon to get an idea of how bad this is--has more than a dozen copies in our county system. We have about 400,000 people in the county. Across the state, a less populous county has 12.
The same is true of several other counties I checked.
Asking our local how come they had that many, I was told it was demand. It was a phone call, so I wasn't able to see her smirking.
I don't suppose they'd actually tell me the truth. Like a carton of the books showed up, courtesy of George Soros.

A Fine Line
Please don't paint librarians with the same brush as the ALA. Librarians tend to walk a fine line - they have to serve a population and use a limited budget, so decisions have to be made as to what to purchase. To save time and do their jobs faster, they may even recommend titles to one another, or develop a formalized list... It is unfortunate ALA portrays all challenges as attempts of censorship. (It is actually an attempt at democracy). It is also unfortunate when a vocal group outside the library profession feels qualified to pick apart collection development and acquisition decisions, or project some dubious underlying intentions onto routine activities. It is also unfortunate that some librarians refuse to own up to the problem of pornography - they don't buy x rated material, they don't have adult only video sections, and if a company gave them thousands of free pornography magazines every day, they would probably would not put them on the shelves. But when the internet enters the picture, common sense goes out the window. "Free porn? Sure! Give us all you got!" Librarians take pride in trying to select materials for the masses, unless the web is involved... then they stop caring about selection and get stuck "on filters are bad", "monitoring is bad", etc. Most librarians did not sign on to be police, but that does not excuse helping minors break the law, helping pedophiles break the law, wiping out log files so even if the a court issues a legitimate legal request for certain information there are no usage patterns or history to analyze (terrorists love that, by the way). So, I guess my comments are going nowhere, but to warp it up... librarians need to work with their communities, not demonize legitimate questions about purchases, and take steps to show they do not hold themselves above the law. And the public should help and assist, to the betterment of libraries for all patrons.

think_4_yourself
The author's name is Judy BLUME, not BLOOM. As proved by you and the librarian in my local library who could not find LUISA Alcott, clearly today's generation of librarians can't read even titles, much less books.

About two weeks ago I sought a book by LOUISA May Alcott in our local library branch. After not finding anything in the electronic catalogue, I sought the assistance of the librarian, and after convincing her finally that the woman was not Mexican, we discovered that this library had nothing whatever by Ms. Alcott. A check with the bookstore across the street, a branch of the Monopoly Book Chain which is the only one allowed to operate in Toronto, proved that the particular book I wanted was not available at any, ANY bookstore in Toronto. The clerk, who was also astonished, opined that only books with wizards, alternate universes, sex and death were likely to be carried by the childrens' department these days. Fortunately my sister was able to pick the book up in the States and send it to me "as a gift" thus avoiding the stiff "duty" charged to people who dare to seek books outside Canada.

On another occasion when I was seeking a copy of Kipling's "Just So Stories" I commented to the librarian that some British libraries were not stocking Kipling anymore because they considered him "racist" -- and told her that I'd collected all the Doctor Doolittle books before they were sanitized for my protection because some libraries stocked only the bowdlerized versions if at all. She admitted that they did not stock Doctor Doolittle at all, because in some of the books Hugh Lofting used the word Negro.

A fine line indeed
and I fear you are just a bit on the wrong side of it.

You write: "librarians need to work with their communities, not demonize legitimate questions about purchases, and take steps to show they do not hold themselves above the law."

I have a lot of experience with libraries (my sainted ma was a librarian) and I have never seen a situation where a librarian did not work with teh community. And I have never seen a case where a librarian held him or her self above the law.

think_4_yourself
LOL, my question was meant to be rhetorical sarcasm.

As for porn filters on library computers I have no problem with them one way or another. Our libraries have them because they are required by State law. But like some other poster above said, if you are looking at porn in a public library you have some serious issues.

I am against all forms of censorship for adults but I can recognize that there should be limitations on what children have access to. That being said, my feeling is that the primary custodian and responsibility for that lies with the parents. The problem is that it appears that the majority of the parents in this country today have delegated that responsibility to the schools and other public institutions.

Maybe that’s why Hillary’s book “It Takes A Village (Idiot)” was touted as a good thing.

ALA: property of Gilberts/Giblets
The ALA, along with the APA, was bought and paid for by rich homosexuals like Tim Gill--the ALA now operates out of Tim Gill's mansion in Denver, or may as well.

Yes, the ALA has long been a target of right wingers and for a very good reason: It is now a political organization promoting the homosexualist and feminist agendas, not to mention the humanist, the secularist, the atheist, the Darwinist, in general the lib/lefty line.

homosexuals are sterile, including Tango's two 'daddies'

homosexuality is sterile

homosexualism is sterile

homosexual disease production and spreading, and the homosexual shortened life expectancy, along with the homosexual suicidal anal 'sex' say it all about the legitimacy of homosexuals, homosexuality, homosexualism

nothing favors homosexuals

nothing favors homosexuality

nothing recommends homosexuals

nothing recommends homosexuality

Anon
"then they stop caring about selection and get stuck "on filters are bad", "monitoring is bad", etc. Most librarians did not sign on to be police, but that does not excuse helping minors break the law, helping pedophiles break the law, "

----------

I absolutely agreed with much of what you said, but this is just not true. I also work very closely with our local library, am on the board, and have had lengthy discussions with the head librarian.

Our computers are available with or without filters, and the screens are set into a "well" so that no one standing close by can see them. Do people come in to watch porn? Of course they do. Do I want libraries using my tax money to tell me I can't watch porn if I want to? Of course I don't.

YOu seem to be implying that people who watch porn are pedophiles, which they definitely are not. Also, kiddie porn is not available on any computer by law, nor is it available on library computers. Further, to suggest that porn enables "pedophiles to break the law" just reveals a misunderstanding about the psychology of pedophilia.

L:ibrarians are not substitute parents; if kids are coming in to watch porn it is not the job of very busy librarians to censor their selections, at any rate, it wouldn't be possible to even know.

Last, it is probably easier for kids to watch porn on their own home computers; why should the libraries be required to police computer-watching any more that parents?

revealing
I suppose it may have seemed natural to the censorship minded Bozell to assume that the Librarians in pointing to material they find has objectionable content tha the librarians were recommending censorship. But the quotes he provides suggest otherwise.

There is nothing in the quotes from the ALA to suggest that they want to remove the materials with the anti-gay stereotypes. They are quoted as advocating someone who can help those people who are looking for more positive homosexual messages in the right direction.

Counteracting stereotypes is a much better approach than censoring them. Apparently to Bozell there is no difference.

Jack
"I have a lot of experience with libraries (my sainted ma was a librarian) and I have never seen a situation where a librarian did not work with teh community. And I have never seen a case where a librarian held him or her self above the law. "

-----------

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

I even knew of case near here where a group of fundamentalist Christians demonstrated with signs outside of a nearby library for shelving Harry Potter. The librarians were respectful, polite, and addressed their concerns with thoughtfulness.

Audi
Would the monopoly book store you mentioned happen to be Indigo/ World's Biggest Bookstore? I remember being in Toronto 2-3 years ago and walking in to that monster of a place. Not the nicest part of Toronto I saw, but when somebody says World's Biggest ________, I can't help but check it out if I'm nearby. I wasn't sure if I had walked into a Costco or a bookstore. Obviously I can't speak to your experience, but if they didn't have it there, I guess nobody is going to have it.

Rudy
"Where other than the library are you likely to see those two books together. "

----------

Lol. That's what's so wonderful about libraries!

Twice a year we hold a sale, books that were donated to the library by patrons are sold for $1.00 ea (it raises money for things that the country budget doesn't cover) and then theremaining books are boxed for recycling or other options.

When boxing up these books, I love to mix up titles of books that won't like each other, for example, a book by Rush Limbaugh on top of Marx-Hegel Dialectics. I'ts symbolic I know, but what isn't?

I'm really heartened
by most of the posts on this thread; our libraries are so important to our communities and our culture, and it's great to see such like-mindedness cross political lines.

It's also heartening to see that a column like Bozell's is derided by just about everybody, it gives me faith in our ability to come together when it's called for.

Ignoring censorship...
Ignoring censorship doesn't make it go away. Even in the middle of the Bible Belt, I've seen the library displays deriding those who request that children's literature does not include pornography or rabidly pro-homosexual material. Yet I've also noticed that a great number of the conservative and Christian books I'd like to read are "missing." They been checked out, lost, and not replaced; or they just "can't be found."

The librarians choose which books to buy, and which to replace...there is no accident in the fact that the liberal ones are purchased and replaced while the conservative and Christian ones are not.

Replacng books
Most books that do not get replaced are out of print and can not be replaced. For example a history text that I was interested in at our library was not on the shelf even though the computer said it was. The book was published in 1888 (which was why I wanted it)and was irreplacable. Older out of print books like this are quite valuable and are stolen anytime book theives can find them.

Anon Replies - The Fine Line
Jack - my thanks to your sainted ma - google around about libraries and terrorism, libraries porn and firing, libraries and police. You'll find stories about librarians who witness illegal activity but are told not to report it - is that against the law? Maybe not, but in a public library where your are hired by the library to oversee the library... oh, by the way, if a librarian casts any challenge as an attempt at censorship, then, yes, I feel they are trying to justify their existence, hype the situation, and fight the community, and no, I don't consider that working with the community. I've known a few librarians in my day, too, and most have been very professional and helpful. As is any case, usually only a few wing-nuts get the press, so I'm sure most of the librarians you encounter are fine, but then the original post was not about the times when everyone is happy, it is more about some combative attitudes that clearly exist at the ALA (which is why I tried to differentiate between the ALA and actual practicing librarians).

Smitty
I challenge your facts. Provide something substantial to go on.

Anon Replies - The Fine Line
deathstar - thanks for the reply, I was not intending / implying all porn hounds are pedophiles, I was just writing a fast comment, but I think my point is fairly clear. As for the librarians / parents / home-use angle, obviously what happens at home may not be acceptable in public, and vice versa and clearly a paid employee does not have the same authority or responsibility as a parent. Step out the door and your behavior is subject to different rules, laws, expectations, and conversely if you are at home you don't expect a cop to kick down the door and snuff out your cigarettes. The "Do I want libraries using my tax money to tell me I can't watch porn if I want to? Of course I don't." is way off base. Of course you can watch what you want, just not in a public setting - gimme a break, there's heavy zoning about where strip clubs can be, how things can be advertised in store windows, what kind of tv commercials are considered within social norms... are you telling me none of that intent applies to the interior of a public library, that it is somehow untouchable or absolved of the level of decorum shown in public parks or public streets or public schools or museums (also your tax money)...

The library serves the entire community
School libraries serve the entire student population and by proxy, their parents. Has Mr. Bozell considered that some parents want their children to have access to these materials?

Making such materials available doesn’t equate with indoctrination. No one is forcing students to read these books. Conversely, failing to carry a book does not equate with censorship as long as a consistent, objective criteria is observed. I’ve not read “A Parent’s Guide to Preventing....”. Does it have positive reviews from reputable sources such as Publisher’s Weekly? What about from the scientific community? How about demand? If a lot of people request this book, it’s much more likely to be purchased. If these criteria are not meet, Librarians have a difficult time justifying its addition to a collection. Please note that there a many controversial books on library shelves. For example “The Bell Curve”, which some have called racist, is widely available.

In a large professional organization such at the ALA, it’s easy to cherry pick examples of bias, but far more difficult to objectively demonstrate institutional prejudice. Unfortunately, objectivity doesn't seem to be Mr. Bozell’s strong point.

think_4_yourself
I doubt your statements. Here's why.

For every year for five years now, a friend and I have been doing an experiment at our local public library. I have requested "The God Who Is There" by Francis Shaeffer. I am always told they don't have it, but will look into it and get back with me. They never do. I do this on a Monday morning. On the next morning, Tuesday, my friend RV takes a copy of "The God Who Is There" that he bought from a library association and is still in its wrapping to the library and offers to donate it. They always promise to look into its "qualifications" and "if anyone is interested in reading it and to "get back with him." They never do.

After the second year, we expanded our experiment and this year we will have 20 people over the course of four weeks asking for this book and then RV will make his offer. I think we'll get the same answer, but we're going to keep trying.

Francis Shaeffer was a Christian philosopher considered even by secularists to be a very intellectual and gifted writer; "The God Who Is There?" is considered one of his three seminal works. Yet the local library says "nobody has ever requested this book" even when I have requested it the day before. BTW, you will not find books by him or just about any other Christian author anywhere in our library. CS Lewis' fiction is there, but not "Mere Christianity" or any of his other non-fiction works.

Should we assume that librarians couldn't possibly lie?

deathstar
Between seeing those two books together and asking the librarian to look up 'A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality', I had a hard time keeping a straight face while I was in there. Your point about that being what is so wonderful about libraries is spot on. I'll admit, before this morning, I hadn't been in a library since college. But between seeing those two books together and the enthusiasm with which the librarian got up to assist me, I remembered why I enjoyed spending so much time there when I was younger. Libraries are supposed to be places open to all learning and ideas. Unlike school, where you are assigned materials and subject matters, the only thing holding you back from learning anything in a library is yourself. No matter the ideology of the librarian, they can't make you request or check out certain materials. And I didn't get the impression that the librarian was trying to brush me off or get rid of me when she told me they didn't carry the above mentioned book. With a smile on her face, she had me fill out a request card with my information (partially so they could put me on their donor mailing lists, I'm sure) and let me know that she would e-mail me, if wanted, to let me know when the book comes in or direct me to another branch that might carry the book. As I mentioned in my previous post, I know this is anecdotal evidence and in no way exonorates every librarian who may try to influence those who come into their libraries, but if that was the reaction I got in Philadelphia, I have a hard time believing that libraries in other locales are so ideologically administered as to stifle all forms of conservative thought and publication on their book shelves.

deathstar,ex-Wyomingite:

Here's a post sure to make you unhappy.

The ALA exists to destroy God.

Homosexuality is a sickness and a moral depravity that is destructive to the individuals who choose to act out homosexual behaviors (all homosexual behavior is a choice, and a very, very wrong one at that).

A book "validating" homosexuality belongs in a library like a book entitled "How To Commit Adultery and Get Away With It".

Let's see what you asocial perverts have to say about that.


Anon
You're right, I think both of us agree that there are standards of appropriateness about what is permitted in the publich sphere. I certainly don't want my kids or grandkids watching porn at the library, and I don't want strip clubs down the street from my house.

When computers came into our library, these issues really did weigh heavily on the library, it is not easy to provide total freedom for computer content without stepping on toes - not just for the principle, but because filters are often not that specific - on some of them you can't even look up "breast cancer". Also, public libraries are notorious for attracting odd types; homeless, marginal mentally ill or just extremely eccentric people come in every day. Librarians generally recognize these people and strangely, I have found that they know which ones frequent the porn sites.

The solution to putting the screens into deep wells has worked as well as anything - you really can't tell what other people are watching.
Also, the computers automatically turn off after an hour, you have to get another PIN number from the librarian and move to another computer in order to keep watching, and since they are in heavy use that's not easy to do.

Sorry if my response got thorny - I didn't mean to imply that you viewed library porn as a pedophile magnet.

I think in any issue like this, there are extremes on both sides - there are the anti Harry Potter deomonstrators on one side and the odd guy who drops in for an hour and watches porn, but they aren't the norm.

Bozell had a chance to write a really informative and thoughtful column. Too bad he blew it.


Anon
Thanks for the response.

I see this in an entirely different light than you. Specifically, you write: "some combative attitudes that clearly exist at the ALA." It is not at all "clear" that the ALA has a combative attitude in the way you describe it. So,while there may indeed be crappy libraries and librarians, I have nothing to support the idea that the ALA is a problem.

I ask for specifics for very important reasons. For one, far too much fantasy is accepted as fact. Peole say things that simply aren't true, and then that misinformation becomes part of the landscape as a fact. I am skeptical of virtually all undocumented claims. Too many have been proven false.

Missing the point
The point of the article is not what your local library has on its shelves; the point is that the ALA is hypocritical because they complain about the reaction to the penguin book while at the same time consulting a pro-gay group about what books they don't like.

The prevention book and penguin book both should be on the shelves. A gay parent would be just as abhorrent about their child reading the prevention book as the straight or religious parent would be about their child reading the penguin book.

Besides, just because it's a stereotype doesn't mean it not true.

AudiR10
About two weeks ago I sought a book by LOUISA May Alcott in our local library branch. After not finding anything in the electronic catalogue, I sought the assistance of the librarian, and after convincing her finally that the woman was not Mexican, we discovered that this library had nothing whatever by Ms. Alcott. A check with the bookstore across the street, a branch of the Monopoly Book Chain which is the only one allowed to operate in Toronto, proved that the particular book I wanted was not available at any, ANY bookstore in Toronto.
-------------------------------------------

I am assuming you are in Toronto and have access to the Toronto Public Library system. A simple author search (Alcott, Louisa May, 1832-1888) of their online catalog reveals 233 titles by Alcott. Many of Alcott's books are in a variety of formats (print, large print, audio, video, e-book). It appears Alcott's books are readily available to the public in Toronto. If you are in a Toronto suburb that doesn't have the exact book you are looking for, I'm sure your local library has borrowing privilages with others in your area. Also, Canadian and British libraries do not fall under the American Library Association. They have their own associations, though admittedly they do collaborate at times.

Everyone:

In case you did not know, the users "deathstar" and "ex-Wyomingite" are quéér trolls.

They hover around Towhnall.com waiting to pounce on anything that is not 100% pro-homosexuality.

----------------------

Books promoting homosexuality should not be written, published or made available anymore than should books about how to commit crimes.

Anyone who thinks differently has been sadly brainwashed by the quéér lobby.

Don't believe anyone who tells you homosexuality is normal in any way shape or form. It is an abnormality that needs to be treated.

And all homosexual behavior is a sin.

By the way, having the urge to have sex with the hot wife of one's neighbor is incredibly normal -- unlike homosexual urges.

But all adultery is just as wrong and sinful as all homosexual behavior and both should be resisted 100% without exception.

Homosexual behavior is unhygenic to the body, mind and spirit.

Books promoting homosexuality are pure evil. Libraries should not shelve them anymore than they should shelve books about how to worship Satan.

Let's see how the quéér trolls like this one.
(Expect them to lash out dismissive, condescending slurs about me, but say nothing to defend their disgusting habit. And watch them defend books about Satan worship -- which tells you whose side of the Great War they are on.)

ex-Wyomingite:

Think I'll just NOT ignore you. Hello.
_______________________________________
People like ex-Wyomingite are upset because Bozell has bravely chosen to alert people that their kids are being propagandized with sick pro-homosexual books.

The is ALA doing exactly what the NAZI Ministry of Culture did in the 1930s.

If you do not know, Hitler did not burn "offensive" books and works of art right away. You have probably seen documentary film or dramatization of book burnings. But what you probably have not seen is the discrediting process the PC Police of the time went through before burning the books and art.

In the case of art works, the Ministry of Culture displayed works of art in the government run galleries that were deemed "degenerate" and forced the population to view them alongside placards describing what was "inappropriate" about them. Some of the "degenerate" art included works by Munch, Manet and Picasso.

Only after the population was brainwashed into accepting a politically correct view of the "inappropriate" art works were they burned.

This is what the ALA is doing with anti-homosexual material.

Cato
Is it the Elder or the Younger? I've never read anything as purposefully hateful or 'trollish' from either deathstar or ex-Wyomingite as what you have just shared with us. I will not lash out at you with dismissive or condescending slurs, only a question. Do you think the vitriol with which your posts are laced helps you move your agenda forward? I could be wrong here, but I think not.

ex-Wyomingite:

Are we to believe you are bored with receiving a pounding of Truth?

No way! You're awake and you're seething!

Thank you for confirming my prediction that we would only receive condescension and rudeness from the resident quéèr trolls.

Just as I predicted, we see NO rebuttal of the empirically proven and irrefutable fact that homosexual behavior is ALWAYS a choice -- just as ALL immoral behavior is ALWAYS a choice.

We see no defense of the ALA's NAZI tactics.

We see only that those doing wrong react to a full frontal assault of the truth with weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I say again:

Libraries do not need books "validating" homosexuality anymore than they need books about "How To Commit Adultery and Not Feel Guilty".

Cato
Your posting here brings to mind a quote I sued to use as a sig line. CAn't remember where I got it.

"They say a million monekys typing for a million years would eventually produce the works of SHakespeare. Now, thank to the Internet, we know this is not true."

LeftRudyRight:

I hate no one. And have advocated no hate for anyone. Declaring something as wrong is not hateful. Condemning a behavior as sinful is not hateful.

Please explain how anything I have said is hateful.

What IS hateful is trying to turn my kids into depraved sexual addicts by planting homosexual propaganda in the children's sections of libraries.

I do not hate homosexuals anymore than I hate adulterers. Both groups of people have equal worth in the sight of man and God and should be treated fairly and equally.

But if you are an adulterer who is going around using public libraries to advocate adultery, you are doing something harmful to society and I'm part of society so I'm going to do everything in my power to thwart you.

Ditto if you are promoting homosexuality or any other damaging behavior.

I'm not afraid to defend Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as it was originally intended.

Like it or lump it.

P.S. Please explain what you mean by "Is it the Elder or the Younger".

Jack:

Your posting brings two things to mind:

1. The value of proof-reading.

2. The definition of non sequitur.

Me and my infinite number of monkeys will get back to our SHakespeare.

Cato
"P.S. Please explain what you mean by "Is it the Elder or the Younger".

Lovely

Cato
I invoke Godwin's Law.

Thess
Is that Godwin the Elder or Godwin the Younger?

And the hypocricy continues
For years, I battled with Christian parents who refused to teach Christianity to their children. Responding to the advice of atheist "experts," these absolute fools believed that by withholding religious instruction from their kids until they were around 8 or 9, they were allowing them to "make up their own minds." What they were actually doing was teaching their children that religion is not an important part of life, by leaving it out of their lives during the years that their foundational values get fixed.

Of course, now that gay advocates have control of most of the publishing houses in America, there are no scruples about giving small children time to "make up their own minds." No -- the publishers are doing what they knew all along was the proper way to train children, giving them positive role models to emulate while they're young and impressionable.

Fortunately, my kids are grown, and they're all straight and decent. I doubt that any of them will willingly allow their children to read "role model" books praising homosexuals.

Homosexuality is a life-threatening, debilitating, compulsive sexual disorder. Mountains of medical research support this claim. Teaching it to children as a viable, acceptable lifestyle is child abuse.

((Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. My townhall.com blog has links to get there. Thanks.)

Cato- cont
Had the librarian I encountered this morning told me that they would not stock 'A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality' because they didn't agree with its message, I would have gone right to her superior, demanded that they respect my first amendment rights, as well as those of the author and publisher of the book, and threatened to take the case to City Hall were it not resolved. I don't think that any Germans circa-1930's had that option. As for your question about the Elder vs the Younger, I'll give you a hint, it has to do with your moniker.

Jack:

Incidentally, my handle is Câto, not Cato. My handle does not refer to the play "Cato".

Idiots running the asylum
*Negro* and *Jew* and *Christian* are now words librarians don't want to see in books.

How egregious.

My own high school libary doesn't have a oopy of Edmund Spencer's The Faery Queen because the lib. doesn't know who Spencer is. Along with Shakespeare, he was a MAJOR Elizabethan poet who also invented his sonnet form, like Shakespeare and Petrarch.

We've had 40 years of miseducation and outright teaching of stupidiiy and ignorance. We exchanged knowledge for social change--the pres. of the NEA said in 1972 that schools would be the engines of social change and that's what we have: sex, drugs (you can whatever you want in US pub.schools), rap, and self esteem.

Huge numbers of children are labeled learning disabled and only the highest ranked students such as Accelerated Program members get an education anything like my *average* high school ed. in the 1950s and early 1960s.

I've met libarians who can't use the Encyclopedia Britannica or a manual card catalogue. That these people along with many teachers who achieved a bonzo C+ grade ratio to qualify for teacher certification (as everyone gets A's, who the devil gets a C cumulative average?) now determine what children read and study. This is the great liberal triumph that will inevitably destroy the Constitutional US the Founds engendered.

Thess:

In an article discussing the subject of censorship and libraries, a reference to such behavior by the 1930 Nazis is decidedly appropriate and unemotional.

I did not drag out Hitler and the Nazis in a fallacious or hyperbolic manner so the invocation of Godwin's Law does not apply.

Everytime someone mentions Hitler or the Nazis does not mean the reference or comparison is hyperbolic or inappropriate.

As I described
This is why we bother. Renny writes: "*Negro* and *Jew* and *Christian* are now words librarians don't want to see in books." There is no evidence whatsoever, aside from an anecdote related by a Canadian, that this is true. But Renny now takes the myth and expands on it. Thus ignorance spreads.

You claim your HS library doesn't have a copy of the Faery Queene. Did it ever? What happened to it? Is it ever assigned in the school? What's the acquisition budget?




Cato
Yer dreaming.

There is nothing you can cite that suggests anything even remotely Nazi like is happening in American libraries. The say the ALA is engaging in "Nazi like tactics" is both absurd and a violation of Godwin's law.

Jack, Deathstar, and others
Jack wrote: "I have a lot of experience with libraries (my sainted ma was a librarian) and I have never seen a situation where a librarian did not work with teh community. And I have never seen a case where a librarian held him or her self above the law."

I have.

Many of you seem to be missing the point.

If you read the article, Bozell is pointing out that in the name of freedom of speech, librarians will not censor certain materials.

On the other hand, the librarians will censor the materials.

Why are materials that are anti-homosexuality not shelved? Why does my local librarian allow pro-gay materials, and not allow anti-gay materials?

Don't say it doesn't happen because it is happening at our library.

Cato
Books promoting homosexuality should not be written, published or made available anymore than should books about how to commit crimes.

And all homosexual behavior is a sin.

But all adultery is just as wrong and sinful as all homosexual behavior and both should be resisted 100% without exception.

Books promoting homosexuality are pure evil. Libraries should not shelve them anymore than they should shelve books about how to worship Satan.

----------------------------------

Cato (Sorry, I don't know how to put the accent on your name. Please accept my apologies.),

Your opinions on the sinfulness of homosexuality, adultry, and satan worship are irrelevant in the context of library collections. None of the things you mention are illegal in the US and therefore are valid subjects for libraries to collect, assuming they meet the needs of the community they serve. Law abiding satan worshippers that pay taxes in your community have every right to resources that serve their needs just the same as you having the right to access materials about Christianity in your local public library. As a librarian myself, I have bought books that I find personally bad and wouldn't feel comfortable giving to my children to read or using for parenting purposes (James Dobson books, to be specific), but I have bought them because they serve the users of my library and community.

renny:

It is very informative to know that the Nazi Brown Shirts and Storm Troopers were deliberately chosen because they were "C" students.

Hitler himself was a colossal underachiever.

Ignorant and incompetent people can be very dangerous if given any real power. They will project their frustration through the abuse of the power they are given. Nothing is more dangerous for an acheiver than a power in the hands of a jealous underachiever.

The ALA can execute its tyranny because a large majority of librarians today are incompetents and underachievers -- not all, just a very large majority.

Wow.
"The ALA can execute its tyranny because a large majority of librarians today are incompetents and underachievers -- not all, just a very large majority."

Seriously. You know this how? Been talking to your goldfish again?

Husker
Give me the details and the location and I will see if I can verify what you say. What library? WHat is being shelved. What is not being shelved?

And...
"In our homophobic society any work dealing with a gay theme is prone to include cliches and preconceptions of 'gay character.' It would be excellent to have a reviewer who is proudly self-identified as gay examine relevant books to point out negative stereotypic attitudes when they occur and to make suggestions as to how the librarian can best counteract such stereotypes."

This is the librarian's job?

Husker2
If it is happening at your library, do something about it. Any censorship by the library, if public, would be a violation of the authors', publishers', and your first ammendment rights. If I can request the book that BB3 mentioned in the article in Philadelphia (again, no conservative stronghold), I have a hard time believing that you cannot do the same in your locality. Now, to Bozell's point. He even acknowledges that "Some have made the obvious point that challenging libraries to provide titles they're not stocking would turn the tables and make people realize that librarians can also be censorious in the titles they choose not to display." So he's got step 1, identifying the problem, and step 2, proposing a solution. What about step 3, actually doing something about it. Instead, he chooses to paint the picture of the ALA as some homosexual lobbying group whose sole purpose is to indoctrinate our children. They can't make our children read or not read anything, only parents can. The idea that the ALA is censoring the materials in libraries would have to be based on the premise that they actually have the power to do it. The only way they have that power is people are too lazy to do anything about it, so I suggest that you go down to your local library with a list of books that you want in there and they don't have, and make sure that they understand that you know your rights. I have a pretty good feeling that you'll get all the books you want.

So, Husker?
Can I get the info about where this is happening?

Freedom of speech includes the

right to advocate evil. However, the freedom of speech does not require libraries to buy with taxpayers' monies books that advocate evil. If libraries are buying books that advocate evil it is because whoever is making the purchasing decisions at that library have decided to purchase books that advocate evil.

However, more odious and dangerous than purchasing books that advocate evil are decisions to not purchase books that explain, point out and oppose evil or advocate good.

There is a reason for this discussion and it is that Bozell believes the ALA has decided to support evil and oppose good. I suppose the best way to determine whether Bozell is right is to go to ALA's website and see what they say about themselves.

Eddie
this assumes one can readily determine what is evil and what is not.

eddie too
From ALA's website: http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/statementspols/statementsif/lib rarybillrights.cfm (this should be familiar with any librarian in the US)

Library Bill of Rights
The American Library Association affirms that all libraries are forums for information and ideas, and that the following basic policies should guide their services.

I. Books and other library resources should be provided for the interest, information, and enlightenment of all people of the community the library serves. Materials should not be excluded because of the origin, background, or views of those contributing to their creation.

II. Libraries should provide materials and information presenting all points of view on current and historical issues. Materials should not be proscribed or removed because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval.

III. Libraries should challenge censorship in the fulfillment of their responsibility to provide information and enlightenment.

IV. Libraries should cooperate with all persons and groups concerned with resisting abridgment of free expression and free access to ideas.

V. A person’s right to use a library should not be denied or abridged because of origin, age, background, or views.

VI. Libraries which make exhibit spaces and meeting rooms available to the public they serve should make such facilities available on an equitable basis, regardless of the beliefs or affiliations of individuals or groups requesting their use.


ca:

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

What does more damage to society: 1) a woman who says "quit climbing in that tree like monkeys" to some black kids or 2) a married man with three children who decides to cheat on his wife, transfer cancer-causing HPV to his wife (which eventually does cause her death by cervical cancer a decade later), divorce her, shack up with a hussy and show his kids the example of promiscuity, irresponsibility and abandonment as their mother falls into a deep suicidal depression and then commits suicide which two of the three kids emulate later in life?

No.1 is illegal but No.2 is legal. Great. All this tells us is that we've lost our bearings as a society.

We have decided that someone saying that some black kids should quit playing in a tree like monkeys is such a damaging and harmful deed that the police have to be called out, the perpetrator cited, court dates set, testimony given and sentence passed.

But a man can give his wife cancer, destroy her life and the lives of at least three innocent children and all the people they will affect throughout their lives and his behavior is hunky dory?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It's about time we started reversing our slide into the abyss and started calling a spade a spade.

Homosexuality is wrong and there should be no books about it in the children's sections of libraries. Period.

Anyone who says otherwise is confused, brainwashed or evil. And in all three cases we should help them out. We should not hate them but we also should not embrace and condone their bad behavior under the pretense of "compassion".

How is "validating" any destructive behavior compassionate?

It's not. Period.

cato
I am still waiting for you tel tell me how you know that "The ALA can execute its tyranny because a large majority of librarians today are incompetents and underachievers -- not all, just a very large majority".

Because, you know, given your commitment to uplifting behavior, I'd hate to think you made this up and passed it off as the truth. Cause that would be telling a lie.

Cato
How are your two examples relevant to the discussion of library collections?

Also, with regard to "And Tango Makes Three", some libraries classify it in non-fiction, which makes sense since these penguins actually exist (or at least existed...I admit to not knowing their situation now). Do you have a problem with libraries providing books about real world things?

Homophobia is a myth.

We do not live in a homophobic society. The few idiot skin heads and gangs of teens who decide to harass, assault or even kill someone for appearing homosexual to them are sick twisted criminals.

But they do not represent a significant portion of the population or a signficant threat to homosexuals. The same gangs who sometimes assault and even kill homosexuals also attack and sometimes kill fat people, ugly people, rich people, poor people and all sorts of other categories of people who get targeted from time to time by psychopaths and malevolent youth.

There is no evidence that we are a "homophobic" society.

Most people believe homosexuality is wrong just as they believe adultery is wrong. And they're right. And they don't go around discriminating against homosexuals or adulters.

But you who commit homosexual acts are in the same category as those who commit adultery. Both of you are doing something wrong and you should not do it.

And I have every right -- nay, duty -- to educate my children NOT to engage in those destructive behaviors.

Like it or lump it. That's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be forever and no amount of incessant indoctrination or parading is going to ever change it.

Homosexuality is wrong. Period.

Jack:

The quick answer is to look at the wages made by librarians versus the wages made by others with similar education, skill sets and training.

Gotta go. I'll give you the full stats later.


Still Waiting
...(tapping foot.)

Cato
their wages tell us they are underachievers? I am sorry you have to go. It isn't often we get such quintessential right winginess on display.

Cato again
In answer to your question, I would agree that scenario #2 is more damaging. Yes, I do have opinions on the morality of behaviors, but in my professional role as a librarian, those opinions are not taken into consideration. My primary job is to provide the resources and information that my community of users wants and needs (a secondary responsibility is to teach users how to identify what is an authorative source for information and I will point out that certain sources are biased, both left and right). If they want books I don't agree with, I will purchase them if there is enough demand to warrant it being in our collection. If there is not a lot of demand, we will serve the user by getting the title through interlibrary loan. The one thing we won't do is refuse to provide information or resources based on disagreement with the content or disagreement with the views of the patron. In general, librarians do take these responsibilities seriously.

Jack,

there is assistance available for determing what is good and what is evil. There are men and women who have spent there lives reading and writing and thinking about what is good and what is evil. Just as we rely on doctors of medicine when we are physically ill, we have doctors of moral theology to rely on for determining whether we are morally ill. Just as we do not go to a medical doctor to have our car fixed, we should not go to those untrained in moral theology (like politicians, lawyers, medical doctors, accountants, etc.) for help in fixing our moral lives.

ca,

I spent some time on the ALA home site reviewing their policy manual. The only criticism I would make based on my admitedly short (in time) review is that the organization appears to treat all diversity as equal. To me, that is an amazingly ignorant view of reality. For example, I do not believe the desire to treat diverse people fairly should include providing a forum to members of the KKK or Al Qaeda or Nazis, etc. I am not advocating eliminating the rights of these people to speak and write. However, I fail to see the obligation of a publicly funded library to make such viewpoints easily accessible to anyone. If you feel otherwise, I can acknowledge your right to feel these types of viewpoints should be made available, but I will continue to try and make sure everyone knows the evil these types of viewpoints represent. I would include in these evil viewpoints the idea that homosexual activities should be come culturally acceptable in our society.

Midless Garbage
Well I see that this thread which had involved a nice debate on the merits of censorship and how libraries function has degenerated into another diatribe about homosexuality which neither the column or the posts were dedicated to.

Congratulations Cato, your mindless garbage has killed this thread.

Hmmm, this is one of those areas
Ok, on the subject of libraries my opinion is that libraries shouldn't make judgments about books and their contents. Basically, if interest has been expressed in a book, subject or author the library has an obligation to fulfill that request. This means that if somebody wants gay/lesbian propaganda pieces like "And Tango Makes Three" or access to a Catholic Vulgate Bible in Latin the library should provide those with out comment. The only caveat to this would be that the librarian must make an assessment about age appropriateness. For instance, it's a bad idea to pass out a paper copy of Playboy to a 14 year old boy. But it's probably ok to let the kid look at the microfilm or microfische version (there aren't any pictures in those). That's not to protect the kid after all that's the parent's job it's to protect the collection. The same goes for any particular book or periodical. The librarians job is to provide and protect the resource not make judgments about it's content.

Sounds like Bozo want more censorship
Brent presents no actual data on books not allowed in libraries by librarians. And, he makes it clear that his solution is more censorship, not less. Supposedly, this two-sided censorship will even out. LOL.

Sorry Brent, but you can't legislate and censor your way to the society you want. Too bad you can't trust the people to do this by empowering them instead of the government.

eddie too
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with you, at least partially. I am uncomfortable with KKK groups or Al Qaeda or Nazi groups meeting in public facilities too. However, I feel more strongly that if these groups are merely voicing their opinions and not participating in illegal activities, their rights should be respected.

You say: "If you feel otherwise, I can acknowledge your right to feel these types of viewpoints should be made available, but I will continue to try and make sure everyone knows the evil these types of viewpoints represent. I would include in these evil viewpoints the idea that homosexual activities should be come culturally acceptable in our society."

And you should voice your opinion about this. I respect that. I will also add that I can feel that these types of viewpoints have a right to be voiced and I will fight to protect their right to voice opinions, congregate, and have access to legal materials and resources while also vocally disagreeing with their views (disagreeing as a citizen, not as an employee of the library, which would be inappropriate in my view). Of course, you and I would go our separate ways with regard to homosexual activities, but it does seem we agree on some things.

HOMOSEXUAL GIBBERISH
Homosexual Control Freak Communist Nazis Mafia

There is no such word as "homophobe" or such a thing as "homophobia". It is make believe neurotic psychobabble being perverted into general language. The word is a Latin-Greek couplet bastardization basically translated into man-fear or man-fright. The term in its essence has no factor other then to turn common sense and logical discussion into shear gibberish.

ex-Wyomingite
"What three or four little au courant titles are you complaining about that you dare accuse libraries of having an anti-Christian bias?"


On another thread you claimed to be a Christian yourself. Your tone doesn't sound like any "Christian" I know.


I go to the library ALL the time. There is no doubt there is a heavy liberal bent and anti-Christian bias.

After 9/11 my library set up a display to Islam. Summed up, it's all good/religion of peace.

I can assure you I will NEVER see any homage to Christianity in my local library. Not at Christmas time, or Easter or any other time.

Right on Anna!

And what the heck was the library doing paying homage to the religion of the people who just caused the greatest attack on U.S. soil?

Common sense tells everyone with half a brain that the religion, upbringing, family life, etc. all had something to do with the reason they committed mass murder. It was hardly the time to celebrate anyone of those.

And watch out: ex-Wyomingite is a deceiver.

ex-Wyomingite:

Thanks for letting us dumb little people know that there's a big world out there. Golly! Whodda thunk it!?

So you're an expert on what constitutes a Christian, eh?

Okay smarty pants. Here's a quiz:

1) Is someone who believes Christ is not the son of God a Christian?

2) How about if they don't believe he resurrected himself?

3) What if they believe Jesus was a homosexual loner?

Hmm?

Are each of these "Christians"?

P.S.
Answer Key: 1) No. 2) No. 3) No. If you got less than all three right, you're not qualified to say who is and is not a Christian.

On wages...
This ALWAYS makes me angry.

You're telling me that the Federal Court judge who takes a 80% pay cut to go out of private practice and onto the Bench is somehow a less worthy human being?

A doctor who slaves away in a General Hospital and keeps the same pay because he thinks he can do better for people there is less worthy than a plastic surgeon who gets millions from treating wealthy patients (Not that the plastic surgeon is evil or wasting his time, but consider whether his public good is better than the GH GP)?

A pastor who gets paid Squat and provides spiritual comfort to his entire parish, is simply a damn fine human being- he's somehow less worthy than some nitwit televangelist who makes people pay big money to see him preach what ought to be preached for free?

What about the soup kitchen volunteers, the teachers who make even one student out of a hundred realise there is a dream out there to catch on to, the Pro Bono lawyers who fight so that insurance companies don't screw people who have policies with them in their time of need?

The amount you are paid has no bearing on your worth as a human being. Your actions as a human being are what's important.

mothers' day
We Christians have had problems with secular society for some time now. We're quite used to it. We keep trying to get you all saved!
We have our own schools.. or we home school. They are without dispute the best quality educations in the country. We write our own books, thank you, which are rarely carried by either libraries or secular book stores. So we have our own book stores, our own web sites to sell specific books and music. We have our own music, our own movies, our own colleges..
and we miss you. We want you all to come and join us. Get saved ! Come visit a church this sunday. It's mothers' day!

LeftRudy - the Philadelphia library
--
I grew up in rural South Jersey at a time when there were *NO* libraries within a ten-mile radius of my home. The first library to which I was exposed was the one in my high school, and I went nuts in it during my freshman year, spending every study hall plundering its shelves.

That summer, I went into withdrawal, and my father - who worke in southeast Pennsylvania - offered a solution.

"I drive past the Philadelphia Libary on Logan Circle every day. I could drop you off in the morning and pick you up at night. Want to try it?"

For the next couple of months, I wound up on the steps of that libary just about every weekday morning, waiting for the doors to open. Not a Philadelphia resident, I couldn't get a library card, but I didn't care. I could read anything I wanted. The stacks were almost entirely open, and I hit every publicly-accessible room in that building, ploughing through popular fiction, SF, poetry, literary "classics," a version of Petronius' *Satyricon* that had all the juicy parts left in the original Latin, a translation of Boccaccio's *Decameron* (this before I learned to read Italian), and Chaucer's *The Canterbury Tales*.

I sampled all the "inappropriate" modern work - Henry Miller's stuff, *Forever Amber*, Jack Kerouac (and, yeah, Capote was right; *On the Road* is typing, not writing), William Burroughs, *Peyton Place*, whatever - and discovered that there had been a whole helluva lot of fuss over the intellectual equivalent of stewed prunes.

*This* crap is what got most people's juices flowing?

I skipped right past Ayn Rand's fiction (and didn't come back to it until a decade later, after I'd read through all of her published expostulatory prose). Gawd, but that woman wrote the *WORST* dialogue this side of "The Eye of Argon."

But my memories of Philly's library are golden.

--

Wacky - Thanks, but no thanks
--
Says Wacky:

"A doctor who slaves away in a General Hospital and keeps the same pay because he thinks he can do better for people there is less worthy than a plastic surgeon who gets millions from treating wealthy patients (Not that the plastic surgeon is evil or wasting his time, but consider whether his public good is better than the GH GP)?"


I decided at the outset to become a general practitioner (GP), and it was simply because I like doing everything. The training required let me sample just about every medical specialty, and I expended elective preceptorships to look into fields like radiology and neonatology.

"Coning in" on one special population (or category of pathology) would've bored me to death, so I selfishly decided to get me a little bit of everything. No complaints.

At the same time, however, I value the hell out of those specialized artists who lock in on the fine, fiddlin' work. The retinologists, the plastic and reconstructive surgeons. That kind.

Did you know that the guys who practice cosmetic surgery for the moolah tend to be the same ones we call into the Emergency Department when we've got major facial trauma? They do some hellacious "commando surgery" re-assembling faces shredded into hamburger so that the results include not only optimum appearance but also functionality in expression.

A lot of them are "double-boarded" in hand surgery, too, meaning that they get some of the most grisly tendon, nerve, and vascular injuries (requiring skill in fancy microsurgery) imaginable.

One of the most valuable tools in the GP's office is his Rolodex, where he can flip from one specialty category to another to find those highly-paid hotshots upon whom he relies to handle most of the hairiest problems he diagnoses in the course of his working day.

These are guys I rely upon, and they get up to their ankles in Betadyne and blood just as often as us primary care clowns do.

--

A voice from the inside
For most of the public, the image of a librarian is still a middle-aged woman wearing a bun and sensible shoes, ala "Marian the Librarian" from "The Music Man." The other image of librarians comes from the days when newly released literature was reviewed by civic leaders and librarians in Massachusetts and "banned in Boston" was a national byword.

Librarians are so hypersensitive about those images that they will swing the pendulum just as far left as they can to dispel them. Long gone are the days of closed stacks when the card catalog carried the discreet little subject heading card with the notation "for sex, see librarian."

Librarianship is still a pink collar occupation with about 80% of librarians and 20% men. As in most pink collar fields, when it comes to leadership (library directors) the numbers reverse themselves, although that is slowly changing. However the gay library director, reference librarian or cataloger is something of an open secret. The only area still more or less closed to the gay practitioner is children's librarianship.

Because of that, when it comes to the ALA, it is so liberal it makes the National Educators Association (NEA) look like a Sunday school committee. Conservative voices are expected to pay their dues and shut up. If you make waves, you may suddenly find your continuing education credits discounted and your accreditation lapsing. Also forget about holding a committee position on the national level and on most state levels as well.

Just in case you're wondering, yes, I am a librarian, holding an MLIS degree.


I just searched my library catalog
I just searched the online catalog of the Boston Public Library. If any library system would be slanted toward liberalism, it would be the Boston libraries.

Yet in the Boston library catalog, I just found:

-- Books on gun rights (including one entitled "How to Break the Stranglehold of the Left").

-- Three copies of "Case Closed," a book that purports to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was indeed the sole assassin of JFK

-- Dozens of works by Ayn Rand, including even audio tapes of talks she gave

-- And even books by Brent Bozell, such as "Weapons of Mass Distortion"

It would seem that conservative tastes are well represented.

In fact, according to the online catalog, the Boston Public Libraries have a dozen copies of "Mein Kampf" available for borrowing. If ANY book would be censored by liberals, that book would be. But it's on the library shelf.

Brent Bozell is right
Brent Bozell is right on target. The ALA's so-called "Office for Intellectual Freedom" repeated blocked me from its class on library law open by law to all. Yet the ALA discriminated against me, or so it appears, because it know who I was and how I work to inform communities about ALA propaganda. See
http://www.safelibraries.org/unequalaccess.htm

Let's look at a recent example. In Vermont, the Vermont Library Association has followed ALA guidance and has lobbied for a law to prevent parents from accessing the library records of their own children. The bill has been signed and is ready for the Governor's signature WITHOUT TIMELY INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC! There was almost no media coverage of this. Brent Bozell, please consider covering this debacle:
http://safelibraries.blogspot.com/2008/05/note-to-vermont-g overnor-re-s220.html

Bad Books ???
I don't care if "Tango Makes Three" is put in the library. In fact, I don't care if porn is put there. I do mind if it is offered to children and is actually pushed upon them.

What I also do mind is people who want to ban books without ever bothering to read them. Some years ago there was a push to ban all "Tarzan" books because he had never married Jane. It seems that the movies had left that part out and the censors hadn't bothered to read the books to see if Tarzan and Jane had married. (See book 2 if you are curious.) But before people should call a book bad they should read it for themselves, not take someone else's word for it. Too many times that person hasn't read it either.
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